1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:13,760 Welcome to LITE Bites, an occasional podcast from Leeds Institute for Teaching Excellence 2 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:15,240 at the University of Leeds. 3 00:00:15,240 --> 00:00:18,480 Episodes will be hosted by members of the LITE team. 4 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:24,760 And we'll be showcasing the scholarship of teaching and learning from across the university. 5 00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:33,280 Hello and welcome to another episode of the LITE Bites podcast. 6 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:34,440 It's Emma Peasland here. 7 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:39,120 I'm Research and Impact Officer in LITE or Leeds Institute for Teaching Excellence at 8 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:40,800 the University of Leeds. 9 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:45,560 And today I'm really pleased to be joined by Chiara La Sala, who is an Associate Professor 10 00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:46,560 in Italian. 11 00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:47,560 Hi, Chiara. 12 00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:48,560 Hi Emma. 13 00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:50,200 Thanks a lot for inviting me. 14 00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:51,200 It's great to have you along. 15 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:53,720 Thanks for coming today. 16 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:59,520 And you're here because you completed a Light Fellowship back in 2021. 17 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:02,760 And we actually worked together a little bit when you were doing that. 18 00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:03,760 Yes. 19 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:06,920 I just joined Light as a research assistant. 20 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:11,540 And your fellowship was called The Enhancement of Pedagogic Practice Through the Engagement 21 00:01:11,540 --> 00:01:16,720 of PGRs or Postgraduate Research Students in Teaching. 22 00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:21,800 So I wondered if you wanted to start by perhaps telling us a little bit about your fellowship 23 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:26,080 research and why you wanted to do it and what it was that you wanted to investigate. 24 00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:27,080 OK. 25 00:01:27,080 --> 00:01:33,400 So the project was motivated by a wish to understand that if handout postgraduate research 26 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:41,840 students who are engaged in teaching, so I will refer to them as PGRTAs from now on. 27 00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:49,720 So how the PGRTAs can influence and improve the pedagogic practice at Leeds University. 28 00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:55,200 According to the code of practice, PGRs who are interested in teaching must receive appropriate 29 00:01:55,200 --> 00:02:00,840 training and are strongly encouraged to attend the courses of professional development run 30 00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:02,200 by ODMPL. 31 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:10,120 This is very important for the PGRs, this experience, because they build up a teaching 32 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:16,720 experience portfolio, which is very useful when they enter into a teaching career, an 33 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:18,280 academic career. 34 00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:24,520 However, the project aimed to investigate what academic staff, more senior academic 35 00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:31,320 staff can learn from PGRs with teaching and roles and responsibilities. 36 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:39,120 I think personally from my experience as a tutor that being a tutor is not a fixed condition. 37 00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:45,160 It's something that you have to renegotiate all the time with the challenges and the contest 38 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:47,480 of the teaching life. 39 00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:53,440 And PGRs can therefore act as the middle person between the academic staff and the undergraduates. 40 00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:56,600 Yes, so perhaps that kind of more recent experience. 41 00:02:56,600 --> 00:02:59,920 And that's really interesting actually that, and I think this happens quite often with 42 00:02:59,920 --> 00:03:05,080 fellowships, it came about or the idea perhaps came about from your own experience. 43 00:03:05,080 --> 00:03:06,080 Absolutely. 44 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:13,040 So I was a subject leader in Italian, so director of my subject area. 45 00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:19,160 And one of my jobs was really to train, to recruit and train PGRTAs in a moment where 46 00:03:19,160 --> 00:03:25,440 Italian actually had lots of gaps in the teaching because of senior member of staff being on 47 00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:29,000 leave or other personal matters. 48 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:34,800 And I was a bit worried at the beginning, you know, giving all this teaching to PGRTAs 49 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:38,320 because it was an exceptional moment in Italian. 50 00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:48,840 But I was very, very surprised straight away by how great they were and how really it wasn't 51 00:03:48,840 --> 00:03:53,760 really a proper mentoring but actually a mutual relationship where we were learning from each 52 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:54,760 other. 53 00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:59,000 So they were learning from me because I was more experienced, of course, and they had 54 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:00,880 things that they could take from me. 55 00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:04,240 But I could take definitely quite a lot from them. 56 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:12,560 So yeah, and that was really the idea behind my project, a very practical situation which 57 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:16,600 actually inspired me to research into this area. 58 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:17,680 I like that. 59 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:21,360 And I think one of the things that you've said in some of your outputs is that your 60 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:26,240 project took that stance that you've just explained that a more senior member of staff 61 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:29,940 can gain a fresh outlook by working with PGRs. 62 00:04:29,940 --> 00:04:33,320 So how did that influence your project in practice? 63 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:42,000 Well in practice really strengthened my idea to carry on focus groups with members of staff, 64 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:47,880 academic members of staff so that I could share my views, I could understand what was 65 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:52,840 going on in their department and again share best practice in the field. 66 00:04:52,840 --> 00:04:53,840 Great. 67 00:04:53,840 --> 00:04:57,080 So you've started to talk a little bit there about how you did your research. 68 00:04:57,080 --> 00:05:01,040 So I wondered if you might expand on that and tell us the approach that you took. 69 00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:02,040 Yes. 70 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:06,760 So basically, of course, because it was a practical idea, my project that the research 71 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:13,080 phase in which really I started researching on effective and innovative teaching, research 72 00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:18,880 methods in education, class observation, because I knew that this was going to come up throughout 73 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:23,840 the practical phase of my project. 74 00:05:23,840 --> 00:05:29,680 And basically, the project was structured in the following way. 75 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:40,520 So first I had focus groups across the university, focus groups with PGRTAs, with academic staff 76 00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:42,200 and undergraduates. 77 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:47,480 I did not mix the three groups together because I didn't want them, each group to feel kind 78 00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:53,720 of daunted or I thought the best way is to keep them separated. 79 00:05:53,720 --> 00:06:00,080 And the focus groups were followed by the electronic surveys. 80 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:07,440 So basically what was really very useful in terms of focus groups is to extract the information, 81 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:15,200 the relevant keywords, the worries, the concerns of each group and to put them in a survey, 82 00:06:15,200 --> 00:06:19,640 in electronic surveys, which was launched across the University of Leeds and what I 83 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:25,720 was going to get more quantitative data rather than qualitative data. 84 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:31,200 And then the third phase was the teaching observation because after getting the data 85 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:39,160 from the electronic surveys where there was a section on good teaching, what is good teaching, 86 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:45,760 then it was easier for me to know what I had to investigate in the teaching observation 87 00:06:45,760 --> 00:06:46,760 phase. 88 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:47,760 Excellent. 89 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:53,560 And that's really interesting that you had those kind of three groups of, I suppose you 90 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:54,560 could call them stakeholders. 91 00:06:54,560 --> 00:07:00,120 So you had data from PGRs, from academic staff, but also from undergraduates. 92 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:01,120 Absolutely. 93 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:06,200 So did they all kind of cover the same thing in those focus groups so you could get the 94 00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:10,320 perspective from the three groups or were there differences in your approaches? 95 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:14,680 Okay, well, no, in a way, I mean, I wanted to know what's good teaching. 96 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:17,240 Really, that's the fundamental question. 97 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:26,600 And if people, undergraduates, but also staff experienced any difference between teaching 98 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:34,120 delivered by more academic, sorry, more senior members of staff or PGRTA. 99 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:38,440 So the core question, I suppose, was what is good teaching? 100 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:45,000 And then I had to articulate kind of these big ideas into different questions. 101 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:49,120 So the questions actually for each focus groups, they were a bit different. 102 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:53,560 I had to tweak them according to the focus group I was... 103 00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:54,560 The audience. 104 00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:55,560 Yes, absolutely. 105 00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:56,560 Yeah. 106 00:07:56,560 --> 00:07:57,560 Brilliant. 107 00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:01,360 And then they, of course, informed then that later phase of thinking about what is good 108 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:02,360 teaching. 109 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:04,640 You can then use that as a framework for observing. 110 00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:06,720 Yes, yes, absolutely. 111 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:13,720 And that was also very important because before doing teaching observation, I had to think 112 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:20,360 about the teaching observation form where I was actually recording what is this good 113 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:21,360 teaching? 114 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:24,200 What are the characteristics of PGRTAs? 115 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:29,520 What are the characteristics of academic senior members of staff? 116 00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:32,520 And so, yes, absolutely. 117 00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:33,520 Yeah. 118 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:34,520 Right. 119 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:37,600 So perhaps you could move on to hearing a little bit about what you actually found out 120 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:40,120 from all of these methods. 121 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:41,800 Yeah, absolutely. 122 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:48,600 So I think the main finding was, I mean, confirmed that PGRTAs are a great asset for the University 123 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:54,200 of Leeds and can influence and improve pedagogic practices. 124 00:08:54,200 --> 00:09:00,600 Data gathered during my life fellowship show that PGRTAs were especially praised by undergraduates 125 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:08,320 and academic staff for creating online materials, differentiated resources for engaging students 126 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:11,480 in learning activities. 127 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:16,520 Students also appreciated their approachability and the standing of the undergraduate learning 128 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:17,520 experience. 129 00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:23,840 And furthermore, academic staff appreciated the cutting edge research PGRTAs bring into 130 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:28,360 the classroom and work if they can provide. 131 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:31,720 So also a very practical consideration. 132 00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:33,960 Then I can elaborate on more. 133 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:37,000 So that was really the crucial point. 134 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:41,880 And then there were other really findings, which I thought they were really important 135 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:43,040 too. 136 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:48,680 So basically the three groups, staff, PGRs and undergraduates, cannot benefit from the 137 00:09:48,680 --> 00:09:51,960 engagement of PGRTAs. 138 00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:55,360 Staff are exposed to a fresh perspective. 139 00:09:55,360 --> 00:09:59,080 Undergraduates are exposed to a mixture of teaching methods. 140 00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:05,560 And PGRs, of course, gain great professional development opportunities. 141 00:10:05,560 --> 00:10:14,720 However, I noted the straight away that practices in PGR recruitment and training as well were 142 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:17,960 inconsistent across the University of Leeds. 143 00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:22,640 And therefore one of my recommendations was that a transparent approach to recruitment, 144 00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:29,320 consistent training, oversight and structure support for PGRTAs are needed to ensure the 145 00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:33,480 quality of teaching and of the undergraduate experience across the university. 146 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:34,480 That's good. 147 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:38,960 So I think one thing that was really interesting there actually is that you mentioned that 148 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:43,760 staff valued the fact that the PGRs could bring kind of their cutting edge research. 149 00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:44,760 Absolutely. 150 00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:50,360 Was that an opportunity for PGRs to be sharing their research findings as they emerged from 151 00:10:50,360 --> 00:10:52,400 the degree that they were studying? 152 00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:53,400 Absolutely. 153 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:58,240 So this came very clearly, for instance, in seminars where PGRTAs could have a bit more 154 00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:05,040 freedom to include their own resources, their own teaching materials, so that worked really 155 00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:06,040 well. 156 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:14,240 And I have to say I never heard a complaint because what at the beginning was that with 157 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:25,000 the cost of studying in higher education rising and all the obviously concerns from the undergraduates 158 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:31,080 in the community, I said, you know, thinking about the PGR teaching, if I was going to 159 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:37,720 have any comments on the fact that students wanted to be taught just by senior and experienced 160 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:39,640 academic members of staff. 161 00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:45,120 And actually this was a direct question in the focus group and it was really rejected 162 00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:46,600 by the undergraduate group. 163 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:52,000 So yeah, and the mind, I mean, the focus groups were across the university. 164 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:56,120 So all the different schools and faculties we have here. 165 00:11:56,120 --> 00:11:58,040 So that was quite a constant actually. 166 00:11:58,040 --> 00:12:07,640 They like that mixture and they felt actually because the life fellowship was basically 167 00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:13,120 I had to do it during the pandemic and the graduates felt that PGRTAs were really strong 168 00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:21,000 in bringing in their digital skills in creating online interactive lectures. 169 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:24,280 So it sounds like there were benefits for everyone who was involved. 170 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:30,160 So for the PGRs, there's an opportunity to have a kind of professional development, to 171 00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:34,400 have some teaching experience and to gather that for their kind of portfolio. 172 00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:39,840 And then for the academics, they value that kind of cutting edge research being brought 173 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:45,040 into their classrooms and perhaps the more practical benefit of having a little bit of 174 00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:46,720 workload relief. 175 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:52,320 And then for the undergraduates, they enjoyed the fact that they found the PGRs were approachable 176 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:56,760 and relatable and maybe they tried using some different teaching approaches. 177 00:12:56,760 --> 00:12:58,320 Does that summarise it? 178 00:12:58,320 --> 00:12:59,320 Absolutely. 179 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:00,320 Yeah. 180 00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:01,320 Brilliant. 181 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:07,000 And so I'm curious then about how these findings that we've just kind of talked about have 182 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:12,040 been useful in practice since the end of your fellowship or what might be changing or has 183 00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:16,640 changed or what your recommendations have been. 184 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:21,760 There were really practical benefits, I think, for the University of Leeds out of my life 185 00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:23,600 fellowship. 186 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:31,480 So my work is actually feeding into a coming consideration of how we refresh our code of 187 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:41,200 practice on PGRs that teach and demonstrate since that code has only had minor revisions 188 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:44,160 since 2015. 189 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:51,600 So these changes include providing clear guidance on the training and support available and 190 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:57,200 that initial training is compulsory now for PGRs who teach before they commence in teaching 191 00:13:57,200 --> 00:14:02,640 so that they are better prepared to teach and know where to access further support. 192 00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:09,640 It will also inform ongoing work that cuts across the taught and research communities 193 00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:15,840 in respect of the values that PGRs bring to our student education community. 194 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:25,480 So this is, I think, probably the most immediate impact deriving from my life fellowship. 195 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:31,800 So it sounds like there have been opportunities for you to work with perhaps people around 196 00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:32,840 the training and things. 197 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:37,200 So we have ODNPL, Organisational Development and Professional Learning at Leeds. 198 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:39,200 Do they support that kind of work? 199 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:40,200 Absolutely. 200 00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:47,360 So basically, thanks to the fellowship, I established a network which fills the support 201 00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:55,600 gap for PGRTAs and joins many of the broken dots around the PGR professional development, 202 00:14:55,600 --> 00:15:01,720 connecting the doctoral college, PGRTAs from different faculties and schools across the 203 00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:04,960 University of Leeds and ODNPL. 204 00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:16,960 So that's, I think, a very important outcome too because eventually PGR professional development 205 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:27,240 is not really, cannot rely just on one particular person or one particular school or department. 206 00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:34,920 So connecting the broken dots around the professional development of PGRTAs, getting the support 207 00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:42,520 and having lots of conversation with the doctoral college and with ODNPL as well as obviously 208 00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:49,600 academic, senior academic members of staff and PGRs was very good. 209 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:53,040 And also I'm talking to other institutions. 210 00:15:53,040 --> 00:16:01,520 So hopefully my work is informing also the practice outside the University of Leeds. 211 00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:10,640 Now connected with the GTA Developer Network and I was invited to present my findings in 212 00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:17,800 their first face-to-face conference in Manchester, the University of Manchester last year. 213 00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:26,520 And I'm organizing an event at the end of March inviting one member of staff from London 214 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:32,000 School of Economics who works in academic professional development. 215 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:37,000 And since there was a collaboration with this person, I can tell you a bit more about this 216 00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:43,760 collaboration which is one of the outputs of my fellowship. 217 00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:47,200 So basically at the end, was it the end of my fellowship? 218 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:51,600 Well nearly at the end of my fellowship because I started in September. 219 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:58,800 In June I organized an event which was part of the festival of the doctoral college. 220 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:04,520 I was invited by the Dean, Professor Luke Windsor to organize an event around the professional 221 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:06,880 development of PGRs. 222 00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:13,000 So and it was a one-day event again online because we were still in the middle of the 223 00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:14,000 pandemic. 224 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:19,280 So that was an opportunity for me to present my findings to a larger audience. 225 00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:29,080 And then we had a roundtable again connecting together different people who were working, 226 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:34,160 were interested in the development of PGRTAs. 227 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:42,240 And then the most exciting part of the day I think it was when PGRTAs presented on an 228 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:46,000 aspect of teaching during the pandemic. 229 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:55,320 So there was a call for papers and they had about eight, nine PGRTAs presenting. 230 00:17:55,320 --> 00:18:01,800 And this was really, really rewarding experience for me to see actually PGRs who normally write 231 00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:05,080 and present about their research. 232 00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:11,920 Now they had to kind of switch direction a bit and think about how they would articulate 233 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:14,280 their teaching. 234 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:25,320 And one of the guests, one of the people who attended the event was an editor of Postgraduate 235 00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:26,800 Pedagogies. 236 00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:33,800 So after the event, we basically invited me to contribute to the journal with a special 237 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:37,240 issue of Postgraduate Pedagogies. 238 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:38,240 Excellent. 239 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:43,600 So there were, it sounds like some opportunities for your own professional development from 240 00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:45,200 taking part in this fellowship. 241 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:52,520 Yes, not only mine, but also I think professional development of PGRTAs because they had to 242 00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:57,000 write about their teaching experience. 243 00:18:57,000 --> 00:19:02,520 And again, this was a different scale because they were used to write about their own research, 244 00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:06,560 but writing about their teaching was something different. 245 00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:11,160 It was really an interesting process for me because I edited the volume. 246 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:17,400 The volume is called Digital Learning Experiences and COVID-19 Insights and Perspectives from 247 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:18,400 GTA. 248 00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:23,320 So I edited the volume and wrote the introductory chapter, which was also another opportunity 249 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:25,360 to present my findings. 250 00:19:25,360 --> 00:19:32,640 But anyway, part of the editing was looking at the articles of the PGRs before sending 251 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:34,400 them to peer review. 252 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:40,000 And yes, it was an interesting experience because it was a new exercise for them. 253 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:43,520 But eventually, very successful. 254 00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:48,240 I think all the papers except for one passed the peer review. 255 00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:50,760 And now it's out there. 256 00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:59,160 And another development from this event is like a chain of events, set in motion is since 257 00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:02,760 the volume is out, we want to promote it. 258 00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:10,280 So I invited one of the editors and we're doing an event in Leeds at the end of March. 259 00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:17,400 So in this event, we will promote the volume and we will invite PGRs, TA's who contributed 260 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:22,800 to the volume to talk about it really, that experience in this particular exercise. 261 00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:23,800 Marvellous. 262 00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:30,000 And you mentioned in I think in the title to that special issue, GTA and that's Graduate 263 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:31,000 Teaching Assistants. 264 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:32,000 Yes, sorry. 265 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:37,080 This is actually a problem which probably is. 266 00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:41,680 So the discrepancies even is in the kind of terminology and it's not just at university 267 00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:45,680 level, but also across the UK. 268 00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:53,360 So Leeds talks about PGR, TA's, but then the convention in the journal was graduate 269 00:20:53,360 --> 00:20:56,360 that is GTA's. 270 00:20:56,360 --> 00:21:02,600 And some universities or perhaps some disciplines talk about demonstrators. 271 00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:03,600 Yes, yes. 272 00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:04,600 Yeah, similar. 273 00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:05,600 Absolutely. 274 00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:06,600 Yeah. 275 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:07,600 Excellent. 276 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:13,880 I'm curious to think about what you might do differently if you had your time over. 277 00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:17,880 And I know that you did your fellowship during the pandemic, so I can imagine that would 278 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:18,880 have a bearing on it. 279 00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:23,880 But yeah, if you were going to start again, would you do anything differently? 280 00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:28,640 Only because of the pandemic, I had to make a kind of I had to approach the project very 281 00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:35,080 differently because I couldn't do anything face to face as I was expecting. 282 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:40,880 So the focus groups and the teaching of celebrations really were the faces that were affected by 283 00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:41,880 it. 284 00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:45,000 Obviously with the electronic surveys, they were going to be online. 285 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:49,080 So the pandemic did not affect that stage. 286 00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:55,480 So that was like the major kind of tweak I had to do. 287 00:21:55,480 --> 00:22:03,360 However, things worked out well because doing things online, I realized it's not bad at 288 00:22:03,360 --> 00:22:04,360 all. 289 00:22:04,360 --> 00:22:11,740 So, for instance, for the focus groups, it was easy to have availability of the participants 290 00:22:11,740 --> 00:22:14,160 because they were doing it from home. 291 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:18,360 Maybe they were getting a report during the pandemic. 292 00:22:18,360 --> 00:22:24,200 So actually, the recruitment was quite successful. 293 00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:31,720 The challenge was mainly how to really communicate with the different schools, with the different 294 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:37,280 faculties, because I was used to my own schools, I could reach out much more easily. 295 00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:43,680 But reaching out, understanding the contact points for each different school and faculty, 296 00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:46,680 that was challenging. 297 00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:55,520 Perhaps it's a good idea to, if you have, like me, a project involving human participants, 298 00:22:55,520 --> 00:23:01,000 to get ready with the ethics because actually it did worry me at the beginning. 299 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:07,200 I thought I knew what I was going to do and I sent everything out. 300 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:10,360 And then I had to make some, well, there were questions. 301 00:23:10,360 --> 00:23:17,800 I don't think it was rejected or anything, but I had to kind of elaborate and explain 302 00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:19,440 more clearly some points. 303 00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:26,360 So perhaps the ethics is something that is, and I understand that things are getting more 304 00:23:26,360 --> 00:23:29,000 and stricter in this direction, if I may say. 305 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:35,840 Rightly so, because if you involve human participants, you have to do things properly and make sure 306 00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:41,600 that everybody feels safe and can withdraw from the project anytime. 307 00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:49,920 So this is something I was very happy, really, to be honest, with the phases of the project. 308 00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:55,040 I think when I was thinking about it, and maybe in the proposal too, I thought the teaching 309 00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:57,640 observation was going to be the first phase. 310 00:23:57,640 --> 00:23:58,640 Okay. 311 00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:02,520 Okay, followed by, and then I had to think, I said, you know what? 312 00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:09,600 I think if I start with focus groups, then I get the qualitative data which I can use 313 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:14,800 to elaborate the survey, the questions for the survey, where I'm going to get more quantitative 314 00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:15,800 data. 315 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:20,800 So although there wasn't a survey, an opportunity to write comments. 316 00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:26,200 And then I'm going to be in the position really to know what I'm going to observe. 317 00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:27,200 Yeah. 318 00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:28,200 Because... 319 00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:33,880 You get to find out what great teaching looks like from your participants rather than by 320 00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:34,880 observing it. 321 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:35,880 Exactly. 322 00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:37,760 That would have been much more challenging, wouldn't it? 323 00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:41,080 It's just going there in the dark and say, what I am observing. 324 00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:47,280 So in this way, I felt I put myself in a better position to have some guidance and more understanding 325 00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:50,160 of what I wanted to find out. 326 00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:51,160 Marvelous. 327 00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:52,160 Okay. 328 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:56,720 Well, I think it sounds like it's been, well, it doesn't sound like it. 329 00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:01,320 It has been a really interesting fellowship, but also it sounds like you've had the opportunity 330 00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:05,040 to actually influence policy and practice at the university. 331 00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:08,560 So that's brilliant to hear. 332 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:12,200 And yeah, I just want to thank you for coming along and having this conversation today. 333 00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:17,720 It's been great to hear about the research again, but also to hear about, like I say, 334 00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:24,280 how that's been influencing how things work with PGRTAs at Leeds. 335 00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:29,240 Thank you very much for, first of all, to light again, to give me the opportunity to 336 00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:31,040 do this fantastic experience. 337 00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:34,440 Really, it was a fantastic experience. 338 00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:39,760 It gave me a break from teaching and really it was probably the only time in my life where 339 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:44,640 I had an academic year to devote to research, which I really, really appreciated. 340 00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:48,680 Even when I did a PhD, I could do that because I did it on a part-time basis. 341 00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:55,800 I'm happy to continue now the conversations with the Doctoral College, with all the MPL, 342 00:25:55,800 --> 00:26:02,200 to have the opportunities to reach out and contribute to conversations in this field 343 00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:08,320 with other institutions and colleagues across the UK, and maybe more internationally too 344 00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:09,320 in the future. 345 00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:10,320 Brilliant. 346 00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:14,680 Well, I wish you all the best with that continued collaboration and work in this area. 347 00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:16,240 And thanks again, Chiara. 348 00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:17,240 Thank you, Emma. 349 00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:24,240 Thanks.