1
00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:53,360
Welcome back to Pods with Nick and James. Our topic this week is education. I've chosen

2
00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:58,760
this topic as education affects the way we think, the choices we make as individuals

3
00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:03,920
and shapes our society at large. The more research I've done into this, the more I've

4
00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:08,680
realised that I've bitten off way more than we can chew, so we might have to come back

5
00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:16,320
to this topic at a later point. We're lucky in this country in that we receive a free

6
00:01:16,320 --> 00:01:21,640
education from the government. A lot of our thought processes are shaped by an education,

7
00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:28,000
so I'll start with I guess some of our own personal experiences, keep it nice and vague

8
00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:34,040
and then look at a couple of interesting facts to do with education. Comparing this country

9
00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:41,240
in America's as Western education is kind of more what I'm familiar with or the modern

10
00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:50,800
of Western education rather than that of individual tutors in foreign countries or other schooling

11
00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:58,880
schools. Nick, I know you've got a number of views on this. I guess we'll kick off the

12
00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:04,960
ball. How was your education? How did you find it?

13
00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:13,640
Well obviously hi and welcome back to everybody. My education, it was very, I think I had the

14
00:02:13,640 --> 00:02:19,920
aptitude to be quite an intelligent person. I had always shown quite an aptitude. I can

15
00:02:19,920 --> 00:02:27,040
remember back in the early part of school my teachers quite frequently said to my parent,

16
00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:33,020
my mum, that if they could get me glued to the seat then I could answer any question

17
00:02:33,020 --> 00:02:39,400
that they had, do any work that they had in a very short period of time. The problem they

18
00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:46,760
had was keeping me attentive enough to do the work that they were asking. However, my

19
00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:55,240
personal experience of education isn't a good one. I had quite a very, very bad experience

20
00:02:55,240 --> 00:03:04,360
throughout school. I think I was physically bullied in some manner every day from first

21
00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:09,080
day of nursery right away through to about halfway through year nine, which affected

22
00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:17,080
my ability to stay on track in school. I rebelled quite a lot. As a result, my education maybe

23
00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:23,020
didn't get the full attention that I probably should have given it. I came away with reasonably

24
00:03:23,020 --> 00:03:27,400
good grades, but if you think about reasonably good grades with barely any attendance in

25
00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:31,560
some years at school, then what could have been my real achievement if I had applied

26
00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:36,160
myself properly with the right support around me? I think the main thing that was missing

27
00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:44,920
for me was the correct level of support for the issues that I was facing. But that was

28
00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:52,160
my experience. It was not a good one, but I hope that it's not still going on nowadays.

29
00:03:52,160 --> 00:04:01,040
It does seem to me like there is a lot more support out there for people. All right, so

30
00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:06,960
listeners to this podcast, I hope you're not going to need to edit this out, Nick. Actually,

31
00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:13,280
you know what? I'll speak on my behalf and I'll let you speak on your behalf. Both Nick

32
00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:21,400
and myself are not neurotypical. By that, I mean I have Asperger's, which is redefined

33
00:04:21,400 --> 00:04:30,160
as high function in autism along with dyslexia and a myriad of other weird quirks. And if

34
00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:37,000
Nick wants to share, like you said, that you didn't have enough support other than like

35
00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:41,920
obviously your high functioning because otherwise you wouldn't have had teachers saying what

36
00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:46,080
they said about you when you were growing up and the fact that you could work at such

37
00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:54,360
a pace and the problem was getting you to just slow down enough. How would you describe

38
00:04:54,360 --> 00:05:01,320
yourself? What were your needs that weren't met? So obviously I got to 29 years old and

39
00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:08,120
a psychologist I was seeing at the time identified the fact that I'm autistic, high function

40
00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:13,440
in autistic. And I think that was the big gap throughout my upbringing because I was

41
00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:22,560
different, but I think you'll agree the lack of understanding surrounding that aspect of

42
00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:28,480
people it was lacking when I was a kid and I should imagine when you were a kid as well

43
00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:39,040
being roughly the same age. Yeah, although I was lucky it was caught when I was 20 at

44
00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:46,360
the end of my first year at art uni. Before then it had been misdiagnosed as mental illness,

45
00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:53,120
which sounds bad, but like honestly I don't actually think it was the amount of counselling

46
00:05:53,120 --> 00:06:01,600
that I had, although it wasn't the right treatment as it were, it's still, you know, like I'm

47
00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:06,240
just going to say out there if you're listening to this, counselling helps, helps you at least

48
00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:12,920
process your emotions and although it didn't, I don't think there necessarily is a cure

49
00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:21,320
for autism like miracles of God and science aside, it helped, you know. I think I don't

50
00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:27,320
know how many times I've said in my life just tell me how to and I will do, you know, and

51
00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:32,280
there is no guidebook to life is there and there's so many people, so many people grow

52
00:06:32,280 --> 00:06:38,800
up and I think it's one, I think my misconception for me as an autistic now was growing up I

53
00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:42,560
saw everybody else just seem to be able to do it with no problem whereas for me everything

54
00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:48,120
was a two-step process. I had to think about how other people would react to enable me

55
00:06:48,120 --> 00:06:54,000
to know how to react in every situation that I was going through, otherwise my reactions

56
00:06:54,000 --> 00:07:00,400
were quite often completely polar opposite to what most other people were expecting,

57
00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:04,880
yeah, and that was where a lot of my bullying and a lot of my problems came from. People

58
00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:08,400
could say one or two things and I would explode and end up marching all the way around the

59
00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:14,600
school in a complete rage but that was normal for me, that was me not being able to process

60
00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:20,040
my emotions but that was the problem with the education sector when I was growing up,

61
00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:28,920
there was no understanding for autism or no ability to even identify that. I was surrounded

62
00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:34,800
by social workers and doctors and teachers and nobody identified it in me until I was

63
00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:42,480
29 years old so I think that's one major difference in the education sector now is that they are

64
00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:48,680
hyper aware of those intricacies and differences in individuals.

65
00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:57,640
Oh absolutely, yeah, absolutely, I know people seem to think that or something that seems

66
00:07:57,640 --> 00:08:02,960
to almost be the thing is that autism is on the rise, it's not on the rise, it's just

67
00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:07,920
it's always been there and it's now being more accepted.

68
00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:13,320
Yeah awareness to it has grown massively hasn't it?

69
00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:23,360
Like I'm certain my dad had autism but it was just never diagnosed. I don't think my

70
00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:30,360
grandad did have autism just because he was a very sociable person but there was this

71
00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:35,680
controlling element with my grandad so I'm thinking you know what maybe he could have

72
00:08:35,680 --> 00:08:41,200
been and just have like hidden it well as a lot of people with autism do.

73
00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:50,880
Oh alright well I'm sorry to hear your education was difficult, I will admit secondary school

74
00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:58,740
was not easier for me, no sorry, was not as difficult as what you've described but I will

75
00:08:58,740 --> 00:09:07,740
admit I didn't do particularly well in years 10 and 11, I didn't spend most of my time

76
00:09:07,740 --> 00:09:13,840
away from school but I will admit I was sick about a third of the time due to general anxiety

77
00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:20,600
and just like not wanting to go in and part of that was just exactly what you have mentioned

78
00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:28,160
although I've always had a bit of a fear of authority and I'll go into that into another

79
00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:36,200
time as well. I always did my best to hold it together but people's words would cut me

80
00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:42,000
and sometimes somebody could say the wrong thing and I would just go into a spiral and

81
00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:48,520
it's still that way now, still that way now if I don't keep an eye on it which is a shame

82
00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:54,440
but you know what we'll talk about or bring up autism in different conditions at another

83
00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:55,440
point.

84
00:09:55,440 --> 00:10:02,600
I think mental health as a general topic would be a great one down the road.

85
00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:10,480
Alright well I will admit I struggled, I was not, yeah it was obvious looking back like

86
00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:17,680
yeah, I don't know what it was like when you were 29 got diagnosed but like when they diagnosed

87
00:10:17,680 --> 00:10:24,000
me, at first I was really resistant to it because I knew somebody else who had Asperger's

88
00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:32,640
and how they were like was in my mind not the same as how I am but anyway.

89
00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:39,640
Alright so with education the main idea of it is or supposedly and I guess this is where

90
00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:45,280
the philosophical part comes in, it's supposed to prepare you for the world. I don't know

91
00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:50,880
about you, I don't feel it did. There are elements that it prepared me for, it prepared

92
00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:58,560
me for criticism, it prepared me for not everyone liking me, it prepared me for working as a

93
00:10:58,560 --> 00:11:07,720
team but it definitely didn't, I mean I think the most important skill anyone can have is

94
00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:14,120
the willingness to try something or sorry the bravery to try something new and the resilience

95
00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:19,000
to keep going when it fails or to try something different when it fails rather than giving

96
00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:25,920
up. Like do you feel that your own education helped in that sense or do you feel it was

97
00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:28,400
a massive waste of time?

98
00:11:28,400 --> 00:11:34,280
I don't feel, I don't think for a moment that my education was a massive waste of time

99
00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:44,080
but I don't think it meets the correct criteria to support our children and our young people

100
00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:51,240
to develop into meaningful humans in their adulthood. I don't think it provides them

101
00:11:51,240 --> 00:12:03,160
with the right foundation to go forwards in a productive manner. Quite often it purely

102
00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:13,960
teaches, I mean it's been teaching the same way for so long. I mean my stepdaughter is

103
00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:25,440
now coming into her GCSE year and she's learning of mice and men. Now 20, 25 years ago when

104
00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:34,320
I was, well 20, well I suppose 20 years ago when I was in my GCSE year I learnt of mice

105
00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:41,480
and men. That was 20 years, why hasn't education adapted and evolved in 20 years? There's been

106
00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:46,360
a lot more literature, there's been a lot more learnt about the structure of education

107
00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:51,200
and how it differs and psychology has changed over the last 20 years. Why hasn't the education

108
00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:58,240
sector changed? Why hasn't its format changed? You know it still teaches in a very mainstream

109
00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:06,160
way which doesn't meet, it didn't meet everybody's, I won't say it didn't meet anybody's but

110
00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:12,720
it certainly didn't meet everybody's attention when they were growing up. It certainly didn't

111
00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:16,440
appeal to everybody in their own learning style.

112
00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:25,880
Well that's a fair point, like I think there is a lot of idolisation when it comes to certain

113
00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:37,880
classical works and I think of mice and men is a good book but you are correct, it's the

114
00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:47,960
one I learnt as well. I don't know, I think it's an interesting book in forms of history,

115
00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:54,760
in forms of sociology, in forms of learning about racism, class differences, the great

116
00:13:54,760 --> 00:14:02,600
depression, overcoming obstacles and stuff but you're right, other stuff has been released

117
00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:09,240
and in 20 years you would, like don't get me wrong maths isn't going to change but the

118
00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:12,440
way that you teach maths has changed.

119
00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:18,040
Yes absolutely, but you also have to take into account the fact that everybody you have

120
00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:23,520
sat in front of you, now classrooms have got bigger, the teachers are teaching larger number

121
00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:31,680
of children in front of them and each one of those individual children learns in their

122
00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:39,200
own way. Do you know how much of a task you're asking an adult to be able to communicate

123
00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:45,800
what they're trying to teach to 35 different individuals, 35 to 40 different individuals

124
00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:50,480
that all learn in a different way. It's just not possible.

125
00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:58,280
I will admit that has crossed my mind, just as you have children in the education system

126
00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:03,840
now my experience of the education system is different because I've worked in an art

127
00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:14,360
college for a year and I also worked in a school for people with autism for five years.

128
00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:21,440
I find it interesting when people, you know what there's a lot of things we'll touch

129
00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:30,760
upon but I will admit completely agree, even though the class sizes at the school that

130
00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:37,760
I worked at were smaller because of the needs of the pupils you sometimes would have two

131
00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:44,600
and in the more difficult classes maybe even three teaching assistants. So it's kind of

132
00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:52,360
weird that you've got teacher is this job where you're paid just enough to get by and

133
00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:56,160
then you've got a load of teaching assistants which I'm going to be honest with you are

134
00:15:56,160 --> 00:16:05,040
more than often mums with kids of their own teaching other people's kids in order to try

135
00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:13,400
and translate from the broad speech that the teacher has to give to 35 people to try and

136
00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:18,680
translate it to those individual children. Yeah. And sometimes it works and sometimes

137
00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:28,680
it doesn't but I don't. I think there's obviously a decent message that the system is trying

138
00:16:28,680 --> 00:16:33,220
to portray with the subjects that they're trying to teach that they continually bring

139
00:16:33,220 --> 00:16:42,320
up as but the vision that they have in that office of that teaching model is not going

140
00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:50,640
to filter down all the way to the teacher in every single school in the country as effective

141
00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:57,040
as it was in their mind when they're in that office up there. You know, they're instead

142
00:16:57,040 --> 00:17:01,880
of having this concretized model of this is what you will teach and this is how you will

143
00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:08,200
teach it. There needs to be an element of freedom for those teachers to assess their

144
00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:13,680
classroom and go, you know what, I know what the syllabus is and I'm going to teach that

145
00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:20,920
but I'm going to teach it in a way that you guys are going to get it. I guess that's a

146
00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:31,840
large part of the challenge of teaching is the prep. Yeah. You know, which I I will I

147
00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:38,320
will tell you what that actually kind of brings us through to one of my points here. What

148
00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:45,480
would you do? What would you do Nick to change the current education system? It's a difficult

149
00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:52,560
one to because you've said about freedom but like it's it's a difficult one to obviously

150
00:17:52,560 --> 00:18:00,600
I don't I'm not a professor of education and I don't profess to know everything about

151
00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:09,640
education. I do know how I would have logically broken down the education system if I was

152
00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:20,400
in a position to have done so and that and that is to teach core basic skills of language

153
00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:28,760
both reading and written language, sorry spoken and written language, mathematics as a base

154
00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:35,640
because maths is a universal language. It's not a language that you learn in English and

155
00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:40,200
then you have to learn it all over again when you go to French. I can imagine there are

156
00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:44,720
potentially aliens on the other side of the universe that still know maths in the same

157
00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:52,680
way that we do just in their own format. I would I would hope they don't have base 10.

158
00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:59,480
No sorry base nine that's what we're working with. But the fact is that the universe is

159
00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:05,760
maths so you when you think about it in that way that is a base skill that you must have

160
00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:12,080
at least as a basic going into adulthood everything is this plus that and equals this and then

161
00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:24,520
you go into the basic science of methodology where you like formula and what was the model

162
00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:32,520
of okay so hypothesis hypothesis yeah so this is what I expect yeah exactly planning execution

163
00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:38,800
and then observation you know yeah so that that in itself not as like oh you're going

164
00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:42,600
to learn this about you're going to learn about plants and and whatever else like that

165
00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:49,360
if you want to specialize absolutely go and learn that but as a base format I think it

166
00:19:49,360 --> 00:19:57,060
should have been more along the lines of you need to learn how to problem solve how to

167
00:19:57,060 --> 00:20:04,920
identify there's a problem and then experiment with the best way to solve that problem and

168
00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:09,600
how what you can learn by those experiments that you've taken and how you can develop

169
00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:14,240
other other techniques from it because I think that is basic life isn't it and then another

170
00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:19,600
subject which is not covered in school which needs to be covered in school is social social

171
00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:25,720
economics I know people go into school when they spend time with their friends but one

172
00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:30,720
thing that I never learned in school which is something that is taken for granted is

173
00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:40,400
how to like how how people are supposed to be like how they're supposed to live and behave

174
00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:48,920
and coexist in the society where we live that like the workings of a close knit society

175
00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:54,440
and especially with the development of technology but how like why are they not teaching our

176
00:20:54,440 --> 00:21:03,000
children how to how to be kind to other people and how to expect people to be kind to you

177
00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:08,760
and how to react when people aren't kind to you and how to get the best out of a situation

178
00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:12,880
that you go into and how to apply yourself to be the best that you could be in that situation

179
00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:21,920
but the psychology how to positively resolve conflict exactly because they don't what they

180
00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:26,320
do is they kind of go where you're in like how many fights happen in the playground I

181
00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:32,200
can remember numerous times I witnessed fights and was in the middle of a fight etc in school

182
00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:36,600
but there was no this is how we're going to talk about the problem what they do is they

183
00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:39,960
just sit you in the headmaster's office afterwards and just tell you off about the fact that

184
00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:46,440
that even happened if you don't teach us how to problem solve how to discuss our issues

185
00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:53,200
and then and then resolve our issues then how are we going to actually do that what

186
00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:57,560
you're going to do is you're going to create an aggressive nation some like so when adults

187
00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:02,240
leave school and they end up in these positions of power where they go in they end up as the

188
00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:07,000
colonels of our armies and and the leaders of our government instead of resolving their

189
00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:13,680
problems they're going to just aggressively go forwards into into conflict because that's

190
00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:20,240
how they've always dealt with their problems I think it's interesting that you bring that

191
00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:28,040
up one of the reasons why I got slightly disillusioned about the education system was because I

192
00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:37,520
noticed how the children were growing and how they were leaving all that I was working

193
00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:50,040
at and I felt that even with the support that we were giving a number of the students we

194
00:22:50,040 --> 00:23:01,080
weren't equipping them for life yeah I don't know how to positively state it like I felt

195
00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:11,800
like we weren't raising your raising autistic children with additional support and then

196
00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:18,000
helping them becoming a functioning adult I sometimes felt like we were institutionalizing

197
00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:25,840
them to expect certain forms of help which they're not always going to receive yeah and

198
00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:32,400
it's not just the autistics the autistic schools either I think the mainstream education is

199
00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:43,520
victim and is victim to that same problem where the education that they are delivering

200
00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:52,440
is so institutionalized that it's quite frequently for the majority of the public when they leave

201
00:23:52,440 --> 00:24:02,240
school it's clipping their wings it's not allowing them to be equipped in a way that

202
00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:09,160
they can flourish they end up leaving the school system not equipped going into school

203
00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:15,880
not not sorry into work feeling completely undervalued completely underachieving and

204
00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:25,360
they just fall into depression as a result maybe that's just a very strong opinion of

205
00:24:25,360 --> 00:24:30,280
mine but it is something that's happened like something I'm going to quickly share with

206
00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:39,480
you is that this is something which has come about in the American system this guy called

207
00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:52,880
Rockefeller donated 1.27 billion dollars into the American education system but because

208
00:24:52,880 --> 00:25:01,000
he had paid for it he got to shape it and I even just started even just starting who

209
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:07,080
started public schools in England I get video after video after video about this American

210
00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:17,960
dude and what he did in order to control the school system and how it is by design made

211
00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:25,760
to not make free thinkers but to make workers yeah yeah I can completely understand that

212
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:31,800
so just to obviously I want to just the name that you've dropped there is quite a quite

213
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:38,320
a significant one and I'm sure I'm sure he's going to come up time and time again but Mr.

214
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:44,720
Rockefeller is part of a big family of extremely rich people that have come to shape a lot

215
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:54,520
of what we know as the world we live in today now the education system predominantly promotes

216
00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:59,960
the use of the right hand side of the brain the right hand side of the brain is what we

217
00:25:59,960 --> 00:26:08,200
use for memory recall logic problem-solving it's it's the main it's the main part of the

218
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:13,800
brain that is used in day-to-day life nowadays especially because what we do is we absorb

219
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:18,880
information assimilate it logically on that side of our brain and then allow the left

220
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:22,520
hand side this is how the brain is supposed to work anyway you assimilate it logically

221
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:27,920
and interpret it logically and then you use the left hand side of your brain to creatively

222
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:40,080
develop that information that you've got into potential potential for other outcomes you

223
00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:44,880
know whereas if you only exercise the right hand side of your brain you don't have the

224
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:52,840
ability to then change that piece of information that you've you've assimilated into something

225
00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:58,480
which which allows for growth and potential you literally just have that is the information

226
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:04,160
I've digested and then I'm going to give that back out afterwards so it's just it's just

227
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:10,000
it's just assimilation regurgitation that's all you have you have I was told that this

228
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:14,880
is the case and therefore that is what I'm going to tell everybody else you know that's

229
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:22,480
it completely nullifies free thinking absolutely I think that also kind of comes on

230
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:30,920
that connects with media and how we process information nowadays yeah it's all kind of

231
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:36,800
done from a particular point of view another thing which I disagree with is with YouTube

232
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:48,000
and Facebook feeds where the algorithm just feeds you more of what more of what the what

233
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:52,960
you've clicked before yeah yeah or what you liked like so it gets to the point where you'll

234
00:27:52,960 --> 00:28:05,000
have loads of people with varying views never seeing the same material and their realities

235
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:11,120
will be completely separate and that in itself isn't necessarily bad but it's when it's

236
00:28:11,120 --> 00:28:17,840
imposed artificially you know like I'm okay with people two different people from two

237
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:24,300
different nations who never meet and never talk to the same people having different ideas

238
00:28:24,300 --> 00:28:30,720
in my mind that's normal but two people living in the same society maybe even next door to

239
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:40,560
each other having polarized opposite views because their entire experiences are so alien

240
00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:49,240
from one another that they couldn't even possibly relate is worrying in my mind at least like

241
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:53,760
maybe it shouldn't maybe I'm maybe I'm trying to control what people think there but like

242
00:28:53,760 --> 00:29:05,140
I think there should always be just some factual not even middle ground but common ground between

243
00:29:05,140 --> 00:29:13,320
human beings but I think the crux of it is I mean obviously media as a as an organization

244
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:25,280
is purely information filtering organization designed to create a centralized perspective

245
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:36,960
for the nation for the world now and its sole intent is to generate a state of fear and

246
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:44,520
consumership where you are scared to question squared scared to go out and the only means

247
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:50,880
you have to make yourself feel better is through the use of objects that you have to buy or

248
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:58,280
money that you have to spend and when when the entirety of your economic or socioeconomic

249
00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:04,440
pyramid is built on financial gain which is what the system is entirely built on especially

250
00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:09,400
when you come to education the whole point of education is to learn to go to work to

251
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:15,360
earn a living to provide eventually for your own family and to continue to then teach that

252
00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:19,520
to your your generation your generation in order for them to go ahead and do exactly

253
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:26,040
the same thing when when you have when you have a structure that is entirely profit led

254
00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:36,320
and and and has monetary value then its meaning and its its potential is completely lost you

255
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:47,760
have a system which which doesn't think of generating the best potential for individuals

256
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:53,920
it has a system which is generating the best potential for singular singular people in

257
00:30:53,920 --> 00:31:00,000
singular organizations and it's it's despicable to to say the least

258
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:12,120
oh that's a fair that's a fair point like um it should always be about what is what

259
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:25,000
is best what i will it's my own experience was difficult because i saw when working for

260
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:31,080
a institution i saw good teachers i saw bad teachers and i saw good people and i saw bad

261
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:37,200
people sorry good people and bad people what surprised me is was that you had some bad

262
00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:41,920
people who were genuinely good teachers and you had a lot of good people who were bad

263
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:49,920
teachers and not necessarily able to convey themselves or have the positive impact that

264
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:55,280
they were wanting to have it all came down to the ability to communicate the ability

265
00:31:55,280 --> 00:32:01,680
to be authoritative yet approachable and the ability to bear information but i guess well

266
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:06,880
that's what it's all about yeah well the thing is when there's a monetary value to your life

267
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:11,800
when you have to earn money in order to be able to live within the society that we're

268
00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:17,520
in then you have to go and find an occupation and then you are limited by what occupation

269
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:24,240
you can obtain not what your skills can achieve but what your what your what your resources

270
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:29,160
around you what's available to you you know and that means that quite often people that

271
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:36,440
like square pegs are trying to fit in circular holes because the system demands and that

272
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:40,880
that's very much the education system that has that has drilled that into young people

273
00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:45,720
moving forward is that they must just go and find a job and then they end up working in

274
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:51,440
jobs that they they aren't happy in because they require because the society requires

275
00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:57,200
that because of the monetary value that is on in demand you know there's also a social

276
00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:02,840
pressure there as well but i feel is i i you can't blame everything on your parents or

277
00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:08,400
on the educational system but i will admit that i feel i don't know about yourself i

278
00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:17,160
feel a constant pressure to be uh climbing up the ladder to be making more to be yeah

279
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:21,240
to have an idea of where i'm going but where does that come from that's an education in

280
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:25,960
itself that's the socialistic education isn't it that's your parents teaching you what they

281
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:31,520
know and what their parents taught them you know um that's outside of the institution

282
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:38,200
of education that's society having its input you know but yeah even that in itself in the

283
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:43,840
sense to change like there's there's no need for you to seek personal development of like

284
00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:48,560
if you don't like especially if you you're working in a job that you're not necessarily

285
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:53,120
happy in why should you try to advance in a job that you're not happy in you know what

286
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:58,840
you want to be doing you get some guys that leave leave university with top-notch degrees

287
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:04,680
and end up working in mcdonald's you know because that's what's available to them and

288
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:09,480
then they still have that social pressure on them to though you should be you should

289
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:15,040
be using your education in what way how am i supposed to do that it's nothing available

290
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:21,280
to me nearby that i can be using that degree all i can do is fill the spaces that are available

291
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:25,600
to me the only space that was available to me at the time is mcdonald's and i sure as

292
00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:31,540
hell don't want to pass my way up the the the retail chain because i'm trained in in

293
00:34:31,540 --> 00:34:39,200
physics or i'm trained in in in politics you know i will i will admit it did always surprise

294
00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:47,360
me um when i was at university myself i learned that only the best and brightest even got

295
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:54,040
jobs in the catering industry so i had to travel over an hour in order to work at a

296
00:34:54,040 --> 00:35:01,000
cafe because all the ones close to where i was living were filled by masters students

297
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:08,200
were filled by part-time students were filled by the cream of the crop if you wanted it's

298
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:18,640
it becomes a little bit sad when if you want to meet someone with 150 140 iq plus you've

299
00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:24,040
got to go to starbucks you can talk to them for a split second by asking for a filter

300
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:30,000
coffee yeah like that it like honest honestly i remember um and you can always tell the

301
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:36,720
smart ones because uh they tend to that they're dying that like that you could tell them because

302
00:35:36,720 --> 00:35:42,960
there's of the frustration but also if you're having a political or social debate if the

303
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:50,520
barista speaks up and trounces both of you like i learned pretty quickly don't talk don't

304
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:57,560
talk don't give them jip don't anything these people like the people set the person serving

305
00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:06,560
you is not a force to be yeah they are quite often um i mean i've met i've met a very mixed

306
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:11,280
bag when it comes to to shop workers but they never underestimate anybody when when you

307
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:14,400
when you come into contact with them because you don't know what life they've lived and

308
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:20,680
as i said because as we've as we've covered in this you you can't you you can't think

309
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:25,400
that just because somebody's working in mcdonald's that they're stupid you know just because and

310
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:30,320
please don't think because i said oh like this person doesn't want to work in mcdonald's

311
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:34,680
that mcdonald's is a bad job it's just not suited to that person with their degree you

312
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:41,240
know there if like it's suited to people that looked to work in retail you know or it's

313
00:36:41,240 --> 00:36:48,600
suited to people that have that have arguably it's so suited to people with an incredible

314
00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:55,160
amount of drive and a good work ethic i mean have you worked in mcdonald's no but i've

315
00:36:55,160 --> 00:37:01,880
we've both worked we've both worked with somebody who has i worked in mcdonald's and it is it

316
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:07,800
is breakneck and so fast and everybody that comes to your till has got a problem with

317
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:13,200
something and you just have to like if if there was ever a organization where the customer

318
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:18,880
is always right it's mcdonald's where you have to be happy with everybody that comes

319
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:22,600
to the till no matter what problem they're bringing you and you have to fix that problem

320
00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:26,040
there and then because you've got a queue out the door of more people that are more

321
00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:31,400
that are just as hungry as them if not more and the the wheel keeps turning you know so

322
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:36,400
it is draining you go in there for seven hours and you are constantly on the go for the whole

323
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:42,800
time in the middle of a hot kitchen with 45 people running around you all the time but

324
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:47,120
bumping into you and squeezing past you etc etc to try and get all this food out to everyone

325
00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:50,840
that's going through the drive-through and coming to the till it's not an easy job not

326
00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:58,200
by any means not at all like i will say i worked in catering for 10 years um but the

327
00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:05,760
place that i worked at was not a mcdonald's and i've seen busy kitchens and i know that

328
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:09,640
although i was busy at times although there were times when i would really needed to pull

329
00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:18,120
my finger out and i did my best and often did it's not the same it's not the same as

330
00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:26,080
what you see when you look through the mcdonald's drive-through window and you see people rushing

331
00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:31,760
about left right and center you know yeah like any any fast food place like is a is

332
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:39,600
a difficult job um and respect to those people who do it like to be fair there's a lot of

333
00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:44,620
hard jobs out there but uh yeah like you know you don't you don't get a lot of shout outs

334
00:38:44,620 --> 00:38:49,120
to this one goes out to all the mcdonald's workers yeah or these goes down to all the

335
00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:55,560
people buck grinding away at kfc yeah like all the all the care workers that are working

336
00:38:55,560 --> 00:39:01,200
14 hour days like seven days a week just because nobody wants to do the job and there they

337
00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:06,600
are because they've got a heart driving their way through absolutely everything um absolutely

338
00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:12,000
you know the real work workers of the world need need a lot of credit and quite often

339
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:18,200
they are far more educated for the job that they're doing what frustrates me as well is

340
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:22,600
also like the way that it's kind of the way that it's viewed but also kind of the way

341
00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:32,700
things are going like a mate of mine did work in a care home then he started his uh started

342
00:39:32,700 --> 00:39:40,120
doing uh building work yeah and then and then he started getting better at that starting

343
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:45,440
doing more organizing more organizing more organizing he's now at a point where he doesn't

344
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:50,760
necessarily need to be on site all that often yeah and i can understand he wants you know

345
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:55,360
he wants his energy so he can raise his kids so that he can do so that he can treat his

346
00:39:55,360 --> 00:40:03,480
family right and all of that but like i feel oh you know what everything here is going

347
00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:09,240
to be on tape like i also have a lot of respect for builders because they're genuinely making

348
00:40:09,240 --> 00:40:18,920
shit yeah i think everybody who actually produces something there should be i don't know like

349
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:25,440
there's a level of esteem in that not that what we do as a oh yeah sorry just uh right

350
00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:32,080
out there me and nick met at a workplace but we sustain things yeah yeah but i think this

351
00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:36,520
is a lot of respect for people who make things yeah this comes back to the financial aspect

352
00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:41,600
that i was discussing earlier if you take away money builders still exist still exist

353
00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:47,240
you still need builders you know you still need people to provide housing you still need

354
00:40:47,240 --> 00:40:54,760
people to provide like hospitals and and schools and and and leisure leisure facilities etc

355
00:40:54,760 --> 00:41:02,360
so builders as a skill like construction workers electricians like they still exist even outside

356
00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:07,760
of money you know so like you you you look at the amount of jobs that are purely there

357
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:12,760
for the consumer for the money you look at places like coffee shops you look at places

358
00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:20,480
like like internet cafes you look at places like even insurance brokers and and and banks

359
00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:29,320
like they don't exist outside of money but skills skills like builders electricians construction

360
00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:36,520
workers tim plumbers they they still exist so i absolutely get what you're saying like

361
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:47,080
they are they are providing a a service which is necessary you know farmers are some of

362
00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:52,760
the most like the most hard the hardest hardest workers on the bleeding planet they get the

363
00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:59,920
worst deal of all of us it's unreal how much they have to pay just to be able to run their

364
00:41:59,920 --> 00:42:07,720
farms and then they need to make a certain amount in order to get the in order to keep

365
00:42:07,720 --> 00:42:14,920
sustaining that you know we have uh that that like the agricultural state of things in this

366
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:20,400
country is a bad thing and we do need to we absolutely need to work on that that's another

367
00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:27,080
thing we should probably come back to um i think also like any any vocational stuff like

368
00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:32,920
if there was anything that i could uh actually improve um in this country it would possibly

369
00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:42,880
be the age at which you can start um doing vocational stuff yeah because it's so interesting

370
00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:52,200
i've got one interesting fact about education here um by 1880s education was compulsory

371
00:42:52,200 --> 00:43:00,280
in this country for children aged five to ten uh with the school leaving age uh progressively

372
00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:08,200
being raised since then but like when it comes yeah i don't know it just it it surprises

373
00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:16,160
me that there's a lot of academic stuff like of mice and men and although i enjoyed it

374
00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:22,200
it's not for everyone bakespeare as well i enjoyed it also not for everyone you know

375
00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:30,000
like it's you shouldn't force people to do that yeah i will admit that i do like how

376
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:36,360
free we are in this country um like one little fact i want to throw out out to you um did

377
00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:45,200
you note that in 47 states in the us of america they are required uh the pledge to say the

378
00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:53,400
pledge of allegiance um at the beginning of the day yeah like varying exemptions for students

379
00:43:53,400 --> 00:44:00,040
or staff who do not wish to do it one of my absolute heroes is a man called shark fresco

380
00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:05,660
i don't know if you know him but he i do but i want to hear his story he uh we will cover

381
00:44:05,660 --> 00:44:14,280
his story but it's it will be at another time now um shark fresco um he refused to pledge

382
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:22,600
his allegiance to the at the start of class and he was questioned why he was being like

383
00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:28,600
he was refusing to pledge his allegiance to to to america and he was like because i it's

384
00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:35,040
not just america this is like we're all humans why are we pledging allegiance to america

385
00:44:35,040 --> 00:44:41,040
we should be pledging our allegiance to humanity and unless it is humanity that you're pledging

386
00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:43,520
allegiance to i don't want to have anything to do with it

387
00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:51,680
that's fair yeah and that's fair enough there are there are numerous examples of people

388
00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:58,440
like that with varying degrees of reaction from the system yeah surprising is that although

389
00:44:58,440 --> 00:45:06,680
this is a commonly done thing there was a supreme court ruling in 1943 uh saying that

390
00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:14,800
schools couldn't force people to do that and yet it's still so widely done um i like the

391
00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:21,560
fact that if you want in this country you can sing god save the quick king god save

392
00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:27,160
well it is god save the king now but you don't have to yeah if you're a member of parliament

393
00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:34,080
and you don't do it yeah questions will be raised but it's but it is still your choice

394
00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:41,120
like when uh corbin didn't sing it you know like he's that's fair enough like people are

395
00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:48,660
entitled to their own to their own views but i know i'm i know i'm kind of generalizing

396
00:45:48,660 --> 00:45:55,080
here but america is quite heavy with the for lack of a better term indoctrination isn't

397
00:45:55,080 --> 00:46:03,680
um quite a lot of its well i wanted to talk to you about that because where where where

398
00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:10,480
do you draw the line between education and indoctrination well like because i i don't

399
00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:17,240
think it's fine cut i think there are elements of indoctrination in many institutions and

400
00:46:17,240 --> 00:46:27,320
i think there are still some educative elements within institutions which do do indoctrination

401
00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:33,840
well if you think um i'll tell you what you ever heard about the jones town massacre oh

402
00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:38,200
you know what yeah let's um yeah let's hear about that and then if we've got a bit of

403
00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:44,480
time afterwards i've got a couple of uh quotes here from famous people to do with education

404
00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:48,560
i want to get your quote on we will want to we want to bring this back afterwards this

405
00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:54,360
is going to be quite a heavy topic but indoctrination can have huge ramifications now jones town

406
00:46:54,360 --> 00:47:00,280
massacre is one of the best examples and i use the term best in very very very very

407
00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:05,320
loosely here because there is nothing good about this situation but um a man called jim

408
00:47:05,320 --> 00:47:13,680
jones started something called the people's temple in indianapolis in america in 1955

409
00:47:13,680 --> 00:47:21,800
now the people's temple was quite socialistic quite marxist in its scope it preached christianity

410
00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:30,800
to some degree but it was very very marxist in its view views i think they called it epistotic

411
00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:42,040
socialism and they like they believed in um well i'm going to be honest with you because

412
00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:48,640
i uh because of my own beliefs i can actually see some of that although you get people from

413
00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:57,240
all kinds of different political backgrounds um kind of preaching in a way their own political

414
00:47:57,240 --> 00:48:04,400
view as if it's from the bible there are several bits which fit there like uh i think there

415
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:11,400
was one point when john the baptist was speaking to jesus and jesus literally one of the things

416
00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:16,880
is uh the person who has two shirts asked to give one of them away to the person who

417
00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:22,680
has none right it's just yeah there's a lot there's a lot of that sort of stuff in there

418
00:48:22,680 --> 00:48:30,800
so so jim jones was very strongly viewed um very strong strongly opinionated he built

419
00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:36,600
the people's temple and it wasn't just one there was numerous people's temple from 1955

420
00:48:36,600 --> 00:48:45,080
all the way through to 1975 when he decided that he was going to up sticks and leave america

421
00:48:45,080 --> 00:48:55,660
as a general and go and start his own socialist village in guiana in america which they named

422
00:48:55,660 --> 00:49:03,100
jones town now over a thousand people from his people's temples went to guiana to jones

423
00:49:03,100 --> 00:49:12,840
town and lived in his uh convent for lack of a better term together yeah attempted uh

424
00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:18,560
utopian society exactly and it was an attempted utopian society but it was very driven by

425
00:49:18,560 --> 00:49:25,340
jim jones now because they were in the middle of the guiana jungle jim was able to do many

426
00:49:25,340 --> 00:49:30,240
things with these people he was able to tell them like filter the information that they

427
00:49:30,240 --> 00:49:35,720
were receiving he was able to tell them and indoctrinate them into believing that that

428
00:49:35,720 --> 00:49:40,320
was the best place that they could be they built the internet it was it was so cleverly

429
00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:46,960
done they built the entire village themselves they they chopped down the local trees and

430
00:49:46,960 --> 00:49:51,920
built their houses and built their pavilion where they all spent all of their time together

431
00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:58,920
and they farmed their food and and you can see that the there was a thousand people that

432
00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:06,560
had this view this belief that what they were working for was was a wonderful thing led

433
00:50:06,560 --> 00:50:18,320
by a man who was very very twisted very he was not a very nice person at all and it he

434
00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:22,280
as i said he was filtering information telling them things like the cia were were trying

435
00:50:22,280 --> 00:50:27,480
to take to bring their utopia down the the american government was trying to bring their

436
00:50:27,480 --> 00:50:32,520
utopia down their their family members like driving a wedge between them and their family

437
00:50:32,520 --> 00:50:37,400
members by saying that their family wanted to to bring them away from their utopia and

438
00:50:37,400 --> 00:50:46,760
stop their dream from from happening that in 1978 november november the week leading

439
00:50:46,760 --> 00:50:53,160
up to the november 18th he started what has now come to be described as a six days six

440
00:50:53,160 --> 00:51:01,360
day mental siege with the inhabitants of jones town where he was waking them up very early

441
00:51:01,360 --> 00:51:10,280
in the morning with a a panic siren preaching a cry alerting them all using a a code word

442
00:51:10,280 --> 00:51:16,400
they called white knight which was where everybody had to go and meet in the in the pavilion

443
00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:21,200
where he would then tell them that that there was there was people on their way that they

444
00:51:21,200 --> 00:51:25,080
were going to they were going to attack their village and just generally instilling this

445
00:51:25,080 --> 00:51:30,840
sense of fear and dread that this this utopia that these people had lived and and brought

446
00:51:30,840 --> 00:51:36,040
about brought about was going to be to be ended because of these people these evil people

447
00:51:36,040 --> 00:51:41,560
that were going to come and take it all away there was a counselor in america called counselor

448
00:51:41,560 --> 00:51:47,280
ryan who literally just wanted to go with a number of the relatives of people that were

449
00:51:47,280 --> 00:51:53,960
in jones town to go and see jones town and see that it was okay that their their family

450
00:51:53,960 --> 00:51:59,480
members were okay but because everybody was ostracized from their family members nobody

451
00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:05,120
knew so they literally had to just go and see and they through negotiations eventually

452
00:52:05,120 --> 00:52:12,360
counselor ryan goes to jones town and on the 18th of november he's in jones town a number

453
00:52:12,360 --> 00:52:19,560
of people decide that they're going to leave jones town and i think there was about 14

454
00:52:19,560 --> 00:52:23,160
15 people that decided they were going to leave jones town they didn't want to be there

455
00:52:23,160 --> 00:52:28,480
anymore now you think 14 people compared to the thousand people that are there it's not

456
00:52:28,480 --> 00:52:34,720
a large amount of people but jim jones didn't like this and what jim jones what jim jones

457
00:52:34,720 --> 00:52:43,200
did was he told someone to go and kill these people before they got on their plane to leave

458
00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:50,000
and then this person did go to the airstrip and kill or try to kill everybody he killed

459
00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:53,400
the counselor killed a couple of people that were trying to get on the plane a couple of

460
00:52:53,400 --> 00:53:01,400
journalists and then what that created jim jones was then able to tell his people that

461
00:53:01,400 --> 00:53:09,920
if they didn't like what they were then part of was a murder they were guilty by association

462
00:53:09,920 --> 00:53:12,640
at that point and that's what he told them he said are you going to stand in the way

463
00:53:12,640 --> 00:53:17,920
of this are you going to you're going to rat out the person that that committed this murder

464
00:53:17,920 --> 00:53:22,400
or are you are you just going to they're going to destroy everything you're going to stand

465
00:53:22,400 --> 00:53:26,280
together and and accept the fate that they're going to they're going to they're going to

466
00:53:26,280 --> 00:53:32,440
bring upon you because you're you're part of this murder now you're in this or are we

467
00:53:32,440 --> 00:53:37,440
going to have a or are we going to take the law into our own hands choose our own fate

468
00:53:37,440 --> 00:53:46,000
and then what he he instigated with them was what he called a revolutionary suicide and

469
00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:55,920
on the on the morning of november 19th 918 people including children were found dead

470
00:53:55,920 --> 00:54:03,480
in jones town where they were poisoned through the use of cyanide and other drugs which they

471
00:54:03,480 --> 00:54:10,160
most of them willingly took but some were injected through like oral syringes and jim

472
00:54:10,160 --> 00:54:15,480
jones himself was shot in the head not even by his own hand he had to get somebody else

473
00:54:15,480 --> 00:54:23,440
to do it and it was the biggest mass suicide in history which was all the subject of information

474
00:54:23,440 --> 00:54:30,880
and education by manipulation so indoctrination is a very very powerful tool and if if and

475
00:54:30,880 --> 00:54:36,520
it's something we all need to be very very very careful of because it can lead to very

476
00:54:36,520 --> 00:54:44,160
very devastating things and those people when when they decided to take that poison they

477
00:54:44,160 --> 00:54:49,400
had no other choice to them you if you put yourself in their perspective in their shoes

478
00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:59,760
you can in some crazy way understand why they took that poison because everything they had

479
00:54:59,760 --> 00:55:07,040
lived for the past three years at a minimum but their their religion for the past 20 years

480
00:55:07,040 --> 00:55:13,960
was whipped out from underneath them and then everything they'd lived was a lie and they

481
00:55:13,960 --> 00:55:19,360
had no other alternative was no other there was no other option left to them and it was

482
00:55:19,360 --> 00:55:28,360
all constructed by by this twisted twisted individual so i mean it's it's a crazy situation

483
00:55:28,360 --> 00:55:37,640
sir is this where the meme of the like the idea of the it's also a meme that's used in

484
00:55:37,640 --> 00:55:45,400
american kind of uh pop culture a lot is the idea of the cult that goes up to a hill or

485
00:55:45,400 --> 00:55:49,520
goes into the woods to drink kool-aid yeah don't drink the kool-aid is where it comes

486
00:55:49,520 --> 00:56:00,800
from yep yep um but yeah yeah so indoctrination is a very very powerful tool and we need to

487
00:56:00,800 --> 00:56:08,600
be very very wary of indoctrination as as as a world wow well that's that's definitely

488
00:56:08,600 --> 00:56:17,760
something true and that does fit in with one of my quotes that i've got here so um a a

489
00:56:17,760 --> 00:56:23,760
number of famous people have got things here about education gonna gonna start looking

490
00:56:23,760 --> 00:56:31,320
at those although that's a that's an incredible story and that's that's terrifying and i guess

491
00:56:31,320 --> 00:56:42,520
that's something i think that's what separates in my mind a legitimate religion or a legitimate

492
00:56:42,520 --> 00:56:55,800
culture subculture or group from a cult with a cult you don't get a choice with a with

493
00:56:55,800 --> 00:57:03,760
a culture you can leave you know yeah that's a whole that's a whole other thing as well

494
00:57:03,760 --> 00:57:10,200
for another time um sorry it's just i realized i was moving quite quickly away from that

495
00:57:10,200 --> 00:57:17,240
and that is a very that's a very deep story there yeah not story that is a incredibly

496
00:57:17,240 --> 00:57:23,840
dark turn of events uh honestly sorry to hear that that happened but i'm better off for

497
00:57:23,840 --> 00:57:29,520
knowing that it happened and that's where those pop culture references come from um

498
00:57:29,520 --> 00:57:40,120
yeah and here we are here we are what 45 nearly 50 years on from that point um still no more

499
00:57:40,120 --> 00:57:51,920
um no more aware of when you're being indoctrinated and the impact in which it has they do teach

500
00:57:51,920 --> 00:57:59,640
some critical thought in english classes i noticed when i was trying to help about um

501
00:57:59,640 --> 00:58:05,520
five years ago like they get you to examine the text and realize is it persuasive text

502
00:58:05,520 --> 00:58:18,200
is it this kind of text is it um yeah but i think self-awareness is a massive uh is

503
00:58:18,200 --> 00:58:28,400
a massive thing there okay well um one thing which uh aristotle said is that it is the

504
00:58:28,400 --> 00:58:35,680
mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain sorry to be able to entertain a thought without

505
00:58:35,680 --> 00:58:44,080
accepting it which i think uh is incredibly true because it in order to understand someone

506
00:58:44,080 --> 00:58:49,040
else's opinion you have to at least entertain the thought yeah but it doesn't necessarily

507
00:58:49,040 --> 00:58:55,840
mean you accept their their way of thinking is true it just means you have to think well

508
00:58:55,840 --> 00:59:02,840
if this is true from their point of view then and then you try and kind of connect some

509
00:59:02,840 --> 00:59:07,440
of the dots about how they if that's not the epitome of the podcast and the whole reasoning

510
00:59:07,440 --> 00:59:13,600
behind it then i'm not really sure what what is the reasoning behind it like we are trying

511
00:59:13,600 --> 00:59:19,640
to listen to all the different or or discuss all the different opinions and kind of even

512
00:59:19,640 --> 00:59:24,480
if we don't agree with them just by a kind of highlight the fact that they do exist and

513
00:59:24,480 --> 00:59:30,160
that is a perspective that some people some people have and although it's not our own

514
00:59:30,160 --> 00:59:37,360
it's definitely one worth one with value and one that has has meaning for some people if

515
00:59:37,360 --> 00:59:41,840
uh if anyone's listening and you uh either disagree strongly with something we've said

516
00:59:42,400 --> 00:59:50,240
um by all means don't go on a hate rampage but do bring it to our attention and we will consider

517
00:59:50,240 --> 00:59:55,920
like you know giving you an answer and stuff like i'm not going to promise i'm going to answer for

518
00:59:56,720 --> 01:00:05,440
every mispronunciation although i hope or every um every foot that i put wrong as i don't think

519
01:00:05,440 --> 01:00:16,640
it's possible to say anything or any uh exclusive uh thought idea or statement without offending

520
01:00:16,640 --> 01:00:24,640
somebody but uh if uh if you do strongly disagree send us uh a reasonable uh message and we'll do

521
01:00:24,640 --> 01:00:30,960
our best best to answer it may even like pull it over into the next episode i guess okay um

522
01:00:32,080 --> 01:00:34,160
another one another thing to do

523
01:00:36,880 --> 01:00:43,920
all right so socrates said education is the kindling of a flame not the filling of a vessel

524
01:00:43,920 --> 01:00:51,040
would you agree with that absolutely you know what since having left school i've sought education

525
01:00:51,920 --> 01:01:02,480
more than i i ever did when i was in school um like even even now whilst i'm working like i'm still

526
01:01:04,560 --> 01:01:09,920
i've still asked for every piece of training that i can because it interests me and i want to learn

527
01:01:09,920 --> 01:01:16,560
i want to learn everything that i can and i'm 35 years old it never stops i think i think if you

528
01:01:16,560 --> 01:01:22,320
can find the enjoyment of learning new things like you can really really start fulfilling your own life

529
01:01:24,000 --> 01:01:32,400
absolutely man okay um another one here uh education is the most powerful weapon which

530
01:01:32,400 --> 01:01:40,800
you can use to change the world any ideas on who said that um i would probably go along the lines

531
01:01:40,800 --> 01:01:45,360
of either gandy or

532
01:01:49,440 --> 01:02:00,160
similar love popularity um different continent no i can't i can't think no that's fair enough it

533
01:02:00,160 --> 01:02:05,760
is a bit unfair i'm not trying to be unfair on purpose but uh nelson mandela with fair enough

534
01:02:05,760 --> 01:02:16,480
yep yep okay um as i i'm not sure if this is necessarily uh to do with education here but

535
01:02:16,480 --> 01:02:25,680
there was a number of so uh the gentle well yeah the famous playwright mark twain had a

536
01:02:25,680 --> 01:02:33,920
number of things to say about education um one of them was don't let schooling interfere with

537
01:02:33,920 --> 01:02:39,600
your education uh kind of pointing out the clear difference between learning things and sometimes

538
01:02:39,600 --> 01:02:50,160
school-based activities uh another one was um education has its limits this is one i actually

539
01:02:50,160 --> 01:02:57,120
really disagree with and i imagine you'll disagree with me with as well but um another thing he said

540
01:02:57,120 --> 01:03:07,440
was everything's got its limits you cannot educate iron ore into gold which the moment you start using

541
01:03:10,480 --> 01:03:19,920
any kind of parable parable uh like the moment you take away the humanity from the person and

542
01:03:19,920 --> 01:03:26,560
compare them to an object you immediately go into the territory of belittling yeah but i don't know

543
01:03:26,560 --> 01:03:32,160
what are your thoughts on that well i i kind of i think it's a matter of perspective that one there

544
01:03:32,160 --> 01:03:37,440
um because i think there is a limit to education because i think there is a point in which

545
01:03:37,440 --> 01:03:42,880
education stops and what you're doing is you're developing them you're developing past that

546
01:03:42,880 --> 01:03:50,240
education you know and then that becomes the education of the future your findings then your

547
01:03:50,240 --> 01:03:55,760
your your theologies become the education of the future and that's the expansion and evolution of

548
01:03:55,760 --> 01:04:07,840
humanity isn't it uh point yeah okay one of my favorite um uh quotes relative to education

549
01:04:07,840 --> 01:04:13,120
my sorry this isn't just one of my favorites it's absolutely my favorite fantastic i knew you'd have

550
01:04:13,120 --> 01:04:19,600
one and this is absolutely my favorite quote in education terms is albert einstein albert einstein

551
01:04:19,600 --> 01:04:24,720
said you couldn't judge a frog on his ability to climb a tree

552
01:04:27,520 --> 01:04:31,920
that's fantastic and i think it's so important to remember that when you're in

553
01:04:31,920 --> 01:04:37,360
when you're in like the education sector now when you look at the institution of education

554
01:04:37,920 --> 01:04:43,520
like you're you what that's essentially what they are doing they are judging frogs on their

555
01:04:43,520 --> 01:04:49,360
ability proverbial frogs by i'd um on their ability to climb trees they're looking for

556
01:04:50,240 --> 01:05:00,240
for birds to be able to take down elephants you know and on their own they're unable to do that

557
01:05:00,240 --> 01:05:07,200
you cannot you cannot expect that to be the case you need to equip our young people nowadays

558
01:05:07,760 --> 01:05:14,800
with the ability to identify their strengths and then the the the knowledge in which to develop

559
01:05:14,800 --> 01:05:21,600
those strengths into into tools that they can then use to better humanity

560
01:05:21,600 --> 01:05:32,960
i mean annoyingly i partly this heat but also the fact that i'm tired i don't have a counterpoint

561
01:05:32,960 --> 01:05:38,560
to that that's uh very well put interestingly the same bloke i said the following

562
01:05:40,800 --> 01:05:47,840
um anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new yeah absolutely

563
01:05:47,840 --> 01:05:56,480
absolutely absolutely i think he you know he definitely tried a number of new things although

564
01:05:57,680 --> 01:06:01,920
i'm not sure if he's actually my favorite scientist or not i'm actually more of a fan

565
01:06:01,920 --> 01:06:09,120
of marry curie myself but uh that's something else for another time okay well that's covered

566
01:06:09,120 --> 01:06:14,000
most of the material that i've got here um there was one question from earlier which i don't think

567
01:06:14,000 --> 01:06:24,080
we've covered what countries do you think do do education better which country yeah like like do

568
01:06:24,080 --> 01:06:29,760
you think there is a better system out there like currently on the world market of education i think

569
01:06:29,760 --> 01:06:35,760
there are a number of better systems i think the larger the country you go the more important it

570
01:06:35,760 --> 01:06:41,840
is for the people that run that country to dumb down their education and keep their education

571
01:06:41,840 --> 01:06:47,760
simple in order to make it easier for them to lead their country so if you're looking for a

572
01:06:47,760 --> 01:06:53,760
better education model you normally just have to go to a smaller country and i think somewhere like

573
01:06:53,760 --> 01:07:01,680
sweden probably has the better or iceland probably has some of the best education not just

574
01:07:01,680 --> 01:07:09,600
education but health sector models as well um like the population smaller than the country

575
01:07:09,600 --> 01:07:19,280
like the population smaller and the freedom in which that population has is is so much greater

576
01:07:19,280 --> 01:07:26,560
and if you look at their their mental health levels in their countries you'll find that the

577
01:07:26,560 --> 01:07:31,040
level of mental health in those countries is so much lower than it is in big countries like the

578
01:07:31,040 --> 01:07:42,880
us and and the uk as a result interesting yeah yeah but weirdly enough there are a number of

579
01:07:42,880 --> 01:07:50,160
different methods which are are pioneered by um kind of the scandinavian countries like sweden

580
01:07:50,160 --> 01:07:59,360
norway they all do uh i'm not sure which country it is but i know one of them um their kindergarten

581
01:07:59,360 --> 01:08:08,160
system is you have to be able to show that you can play with others before you're put into

582
01:08:08,880 --> 01:08:15,120
mainstream education which in some ways is amazing because it shows that you need to show the social

583
01:08:15,120 --> 01:08:19,920
skills and ability to cooperate before you can do it but in some ways it's boring because

584
01:08:21,120 --> 01:08:26,480
not all kids are massively sociable yeah you go back to what einstein said

585
01:08:26,480 --> 01:08:35,040
it um what about the climb yeah with the climbing the the tree tree frog frogs climb trees

586
01:08:36,240 --> 01:08:42,000
well he wasn't aware of that was he was he was it was probably before he was why tree frogs were

587
01:08:42,000 --> 01:08:48,960
widely known of but the the essence is there yeah yeah like trying yeah like there are flying fish

588
01:08:48,960 --> 01:08:54,640
but you don't you can't judge a fish on its ability to fly yeah exactly yeah that's it

589
01:08:54,640 --> 01:08:59,520
but okay well i realize that there are other things that we could have covered here like

590
01:08:59,520 --> 01:09:06,240
the different methods of learning of uh kinsetic is it kinsetic confetic i can never remember all

591
01:09:06,240 --> 01:09:12,160
of it but i'm afraid we've gotten through most of the material that i've prepared there um do you

592
01:09:12,160 --> 01:09:18,400
have any closing statements on the subject of education it's kinesthetic by the way um

593
01:09:18,400 --> 01:09:25,280
um no no i i don't have anything else i've actually really enjoyed this episode um okay

594
01:09:25,280 --> 01:09:32,240
right um one final thing is uh did you know that uh so we're not going to go massively into it but

595
01:09:32,240 --> 01:09:38,800
we are currently recording this from kent um did you know nick that one of the first schools in

596
01:09:38,800 --> 01:09:44,240
this country is actually really close to where we are right now no i didn't about like 20 minutes

597
01:09:44,240 --> 01:09:51,600
up the road no i didn't where was it okay st augustine's abbey in canterbury oh i thought

598
01:09:51,600 --> 01:09:56,240
you were gonna say canterbury yeah yeah it was actually uh one of the first schools in this

599
01:09:56,240 --> 01:10:01,120
country one of the first institutionalized schools well one of the first institutionalized schools

600
01:10:01,120 --> 01:10:10,720
you are absolutely right but uh that one was uh literally five uh sorry 500 ad wow yeah wow okay

601
01:10:10,720 --> 01:10:17,520
yeah yeah so that's uh i don't know like considering i've never been there i've been in the car park

602
01:10:17,520 --> 01:10:24,080
opposite it i've been i've been to canterbury but i can't say that i've been to st augustine's

603
01:10:24,800 --> 01:10:28,720
yeah i've been to the cafe i've been to the greasy spoon cafes around the corner from it

604
01:10:29,760 --> 01:10:35,440
i walked past it a bunch of times needless to say you got what you made a punch right outside it oh

605
01:10:35,440 --> 01:10:43,200
well but but i didn't realize it's kind of but it's not that that that wasn't because he received an

606
01:10:43,200 --> 01:10:49,200
education inside of it or he didn't receive an education inside of it no you're right you're

607
01:10:49,200 --> 01:10:54,960
right i diver but it's just kind of interesting that there can there is amazing stuff buried

608
01:10:55,520 --> 01:11:02,560
all around and often it kind of uh we take it for granted in this country well there's a piece of

609
01:11:02,560 --> 01:11:07,840
education which i think could be uh could be pursued a lot more than it is which is the

610
01:11:07,840 --> 01:11:14,880
actual history of the country that we live in history as a topic is one of the most incredible

611
01:11:14,880 --> 01:11:20,880
things that i've i've got into more since i left school i think when i was in school it was one of

612
01:11:20,880 --> 01:11:28,960
the most boring subjects to to listen to but since leaving school learning history has been one of

613
01:11:28,960 --> 01:11:36,800
the most enjoyable things that i've done absolutely absolutely okay great well um you've all been

614
01:11:36,800 --> 01:11:45,680
listening to uh pods with nick and james um thanks a lot for listening uh do you want to decide what

615
01:11:45,680 --> 01:11:52,720
we're gonna focus on next week uh whilst recording or do you want to have a quick chat afterwards

616
01:11:52,720 --> 01:11:57,360
well i think i think we'll uh there's a structure that i want to go forwards with when it comes to

617
01:11:57,360 --> 01:12:01,760
future topics which i'll talk to the viewer the listeners about now which is going to be

618
01:12:01,760 --> 01:12:08,640
i'm going to open a reddit and for okay so they get a bit of say for people to have an input on

619
01:12:08,640 --> 01:12:14,160
what they want us to discuss in future future podcasts but we'll settle on a decision later

620
01:12:15,120 --> 01:12:19,680
and obviously for those people that are listening and want to have your input on that reddit

621
01:12:19,680 --> 01:12:28,560
keep an eye on the uh the subject for the link and um go and have your input on reddit

622
01:12:28,560 --> 01:12:50,160
great well to anyone who has been listening sorry and thank you take care guys

623
01:12:59,360 --> 01:13:08,160
so