WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.240 Hi, Nick here from Pods with Nick and James. 00:00:02.419 --> 00:00:04.559 Just a quick one before we get into this podcast. 00:00:04.960 --> 00:00:08.279 I want to say a massive thank you for the support 00:00:08.279 --> 00:00:11.140 that we've received since starting these podcasts. 00:00:11.820 --> 00:00:14.580 We thoroughly enjoy it and we look forward to 00:00:14.580 --> 00:00:17.899 creating more. If you want to have your say on 00:00:17.899 --> 00:00:22.219 any topics that we've discussed or suggest future 00:00:22.219 --> 00:00:26.559 topics, then you can do so at www .reddit .com. 00:00:26.879 --> 00:00:30.820 slash r slash nick and james pods and if you 00:00:30.820 --> 00:00:33.439 want to support us you can do so for from as 00:00:33.439 --> 00:00:36.039 little as one pound a month and you can do that 00:00:36.039 --> 00:00:39.460 at www .patreon .com slash pods with nick and 00:00:39.460 --> 00:01:09.319 james anyway back to the podcast Hi, and welcome 00:01:09.319 --> 00:01:11.439 back to Pods with Nick and James. My name's Nick, 00:01:11.459 --> 00:01:15.459 and this is James. Hiya, how you doing? I'm good, 00:01:15.459 --> 00:01:19.659 mate. Yourself? Yeah, not too bad. Not too bad 00:01:19.659 --> 00:01:22.340 at all. Yeah, things are ticking along all right. 00:01:23.439 --> 00:01:28.000 So my topic that I chose today is the loneliness 00:01:28.000 --> 00:01:30.680 pandemic. And I say the loneliness pandemic because 00:01:30.680 --> 00:01:32.859 it's a firm belief of mine that this is a genuine 00:01:32.859 --> 00:01:34.859 thing, but there's a lot of talk that this isn't. 00:01:38.590 --> 00:01:41.030 educated enough in such a way that they they 00:01:41.030 --> 00:01:44.829 see it as it is um what's your thoughts on it 00:01:44.829 --> 00:01:48.810 so far um i think it is a thing like i think 00:01:48.810 --> 00:01:51.730 um for certain the pandemic literally isolated 00:01:51.730 --> 00:01:56.590 a lot of us and made us think about certain um 00:01:56.590 --> 00:01:59.989 so we're talking about the covid pandemic here 00:01:59.989 --> 00:02:03.109 right yeah yeah so like the company panda i'd 00:02:03.109 --> 00:02:06.859 say it's gotten worse since then although I know 00:02:06.859 --> 00:02:09.120 some places are saying that it's been going on 00:02:09.120 --> 00:02:15.860 since the 2010 I think I mean I think loneliness 00:02:15.860 --> 00:02:19.960 has always been an issue you know like I don't 00:02:19.960 --> 00:02:26.560 think it's ever literally just been I mean I 00:02:26.560 --> 00:02:29.199 can't think of a single time in history where 00:02:29.199 --> 00:02:33.659 everyone was happy all the time you know like 00:02:33.659 --> 00:02:38.199 obviously people get isolated and whether that's 00:02:38.199 --> 00:02:41.740 just because like they were literally in a time 00:02:41.740 --> 00:02:43.539 when they couldn't afford to go out or it could 00:02:43.539 --> 00:02:48.360 be enforced uh loneliness or lack of transport 00:02:48.360 --> 00:02:57.139 links or um yeah just kind of being maybe ostracized 00:02:57.139 --> 00:03:00.099 slightly from society for i don't know certain 00:03:00.099 --> 00:03:04.039 behaviors i i don't know Like, there's a lot 00:03:04.039 --> 00:03:09.319 that's gone on. I'm not saying this right. Loneliness 00:03:09.319 --> 00:03:13.000 isn't a new thing, but I can understand why it 00:03:13.000 --> 00:03:17.080 would have gotten worse. Yeah. So let's start 00:03:17.080 --> 00:03:22.439 with the simple stuff, right? I like to use analogies 00:03:22.439 --> 00:03:32.960 to explain things like this, right? loneliness 00:03:32.960 --> 00:03:44.560 is loneliness i'd say is the long -term emotional 00:03:44.560 --> 00:03:53.939 effect of a unfulfilled desire for company very 00:03:53.939 --> 00:03:59.310 very good i think that's fantastic i i like to 00:03:59.310 --> 00:04:02.150 say something along the lines of it's not just 00:04:02.150 --> 00:04:06.110 being alone, it's the ache of disconnection, 00:04:06.110 --> 00:04:10.810 even in a crowd. And it's hitting us harder now 00:04:10.810 --> 00:04:15.949 with endless info and screens. Oh, absolutely. 00:04:16.470 --> 00:04:21.310 Like, it doesn't... The fact that we can't... 00:04:21.310 --> 00:04:24.430 I know there's lots of different types of loneliness 00:04:24.430 --> 00:04:30.649 as well. Like, for some people... you you can 00:04:30.649 --> 00:04:33.550 be in a room and if you're if your headspace 00:04:33.550 --> 00:04:37.050 is in the wrong place like you will feel alone 00:04:37.050 --> 00:04:41.029 even though you're physically not yeah i remember 00:04:41.029 --> 00:04:44.589 when i was 16 years old i lived in um supported 00:04:44.589 --> 00:04:49.110 housing in a ymca in in south end and i during 00:04:49.110 --> 00:04:52.410 that time uh i had loads of people come and go 00:04:52.410 --> 00:04:55.089 from my room all the time um but i had a little 00:04:55.089 --> 00:04:58.920 book that i used to write like how I was feeling 00:04:58.920 --> 00:05:02.660 at that time, like just quotes. And one of the 00:05:02.660 --> 00:05:05.680 quotes that I wrote was, there's 8 billion people 00:05:05.680 --> 00:05:11.420 on this planet and I feel alone. And it's a saying 00:05:11.420 --> 00:05:13.579 that has stuck with me throughout my entire life. 00:05:13.920 --> 00:05:17.480 Another one that I wrote was, why do I feel like 00:05:17.480 --> 00:05:25.660 a bystander in my own life? That seriously kind 00:05:25.660 --> 00:05:28.939 of makes you evil wonder if you did you just 00:05:28.939 --> 00:05:32.420 feel disconnected from your your own words and 00:05:32.420 --> 00:05:35.939 actions or did you feel like you had no say and 00:05:35.939 --> 00:05:39.399 that your choices had no consequence? Yeah, I 00:05:39.399 --> 00:05:41.800 just felt like I wasn't. I just felt like my 00:05:41.800 --> 00:05:45.339 life was happening and I wasn't part of it. I 00:05:45.339 --> 00:05:53.709 was just watching. Yeah. You know, so. Obviously, 00:05:53.709 --> 00:05:57.949 we're going to explore why society's setup feeds 00:05:57.949 --> 00:06:02.689 into this sense of loneliness. Then I'm going 00:06:02.689 --> 00:06:05.250 to try and share some stories. Some might hit 00:06:05.250 --> 00:06:09.629 home, a bit close to home. But I do want to also 00:06:09.629 --> 00:06:13.569 share potential ways to fight back against this. 00:06:14.350 --> 00:06:16.610 That's always good to hear. As we get through 00:06:16.610 --> 00:06:24.519 it. But I suppose, let's start with... What's 00:06:24.519 --> 00:06:28.079 your take on loneliness? How has it affected 00:06:28.079 --> 00:06:32.779 you in your life? In the way society is at the 00:06:32.779 --> 00:06:35.319 moment, what kind of influences have you felt 00:06:35.319 --> 00:06:37.279 that have added into this feeling of loneliness 00:06:37.279 --> 00:06:43.980 in the world? I think it's... Because there's 00:06:43.980 --> 00:06:46.060 loneliness and then there's the feeling of being 00:06:46.060 --> 00:06:50.819 alone. So I'd say I'm more insecure than I am 00:06:50.819 --> 00:06:56.399 lonely. um luckily i've over the years i will 00:06:56.399 --> 00:06:59.180 admit when i went to uni i felt incredibly lonely 00:06:59.180 --> 00:07:03.139 despite um calling a friend of mine every week 00:07:03.139 --> 00:07:06.860 um despite doing my best to be in contact with 00:07:06.860 --> 00:07:11.779 my brother um and yeah despite kind of getting 00:07:11.779 --> 00:07:13.779 involved with clubs getting involved with church 00:07:13.779 --> 00:07:18.920 and stuff um i'll admit the first yeah the first 00:07:18.920 --> 00:07:23.639 year was the most difficult um loneliness wise 00:07:23.639 --> 00:07:27.899 i guess growing up i uh i lived in a village 00:07:27.899 --> 00:07:32.720 and i you know what if i had been smart about 00:07:32.720 --> 00:07:35.819 it i could have gotten out like i could have 00:07:35.819 --> 00:07:38.720 you know like um yeah i might have had to wait 00:07:38.720 --> 00:07:41.860 a couple of hours for a bus but i could have 00:07:41.860 --> 00:07:47.600 done it you know yeah um but just i was lonely 00:07:47.600 --> 00:07:53.709 i was insecure and even though looking back i 00:07:53.709 --> 00:07:55.910 physically could have you know gone into tunbridge 00:07:55.910 --> 00:08:00.230 gone into seven oak could have done things a 00:08:00.230 --> 00:08:02.509 large part of me didn't want to because i was 00:08:02.509 --> 00:08:05.449 genuinely scared like just scared of people and 00:08:05.449 --> 00:08:08.509 i think fear is such a large part of what feeds 00:08:08.509 --> 00:08:11.029 into loneliness isn't it i mean insecurity itself 00:08:11.029 --> 00:08:15.149 is is a is an element of fear isn't it it's fear 00:08:15.149 --> 00:08:18.750 of how you are perceived It's fear of not being 00:08:18.750 --> 00:08:23.310 good enough. Anxiety is fear of what's to come, 00:08:23.370 --> 00:08:28.529 of what could happen. And depression is fear 00:08:28.529 --> 00:08:32.370 of what you've lost, of the past, of all of that. 00:08:32.429 --> 00:08:35.970 Fear is just such a big element in the world 00:08:35.970 --> 00:08:41.470 where we are. And I think it feeds so heavily 00:08:41.470 --> 00:08:46.350 into that sense of... Like you said, that sense 00:08:46.350 --> 00:08:50.629 of insecurity, that sense of isolation. Let's 00:08:50.629 --> 00:08:55.529 talk some numbers for a moment, right? So do 00:08:55.529 --> 00:09:04.450 you know how many people, what the percentage 00:09:04.450 --> 00:09:09.049 of the world's population experiences loneliness? 00:09:13.230 --> 00:09:15.889 um like the entire population the entire world 00:09:15.889 --> 00:09:18.269 okay so i actually think that would make things 00:09:18.269 --> 00:09:22.250 lower because there's a lot of people who may 00:09:22.250 --> 00:09:23.970 not have been reached by the survey but also 00:09:23.970 --> 00:09:26.429 i think a lot of people i hate to say it but 00:09:26.429 --> 00:09:32.169 you assume those in uh tribal communities don't 00:09:32.169 --> 00:09:35.509 get lonely whereas surely they do but it is an 00:09:35.509 --> 00:09:38.309 assumption that i have i yeah i mean when we 00:09:38.309 --> 00:09:40.509 get further through the podcast and we talk about 00:09:41.100 --> 00:09:44.159 triggers and causes, you might understand why 00:09:44.159 --> 00:09:48.259 tribal communities experience less loneliness. 00:09:48.840 --> 00:09:51.419 But for now, let's stick to the statistics that 00:09:51.419 --> 00:09:53.299 we're working on. Okay. All right. So I'm going 00:09:53.299 --> 00:09:56.340 to say, I'm going to guess 35%, Nick. 35? No, 00:09:56.559 --> 00:09:59.080 no, no. You're all good. You're all good. Global 00:09:59.080 --> 00:10:03.559 population is actually at 16%, right? That low? 00:10:03.600 --> 00:10:07.159 Which is surprising. However, as you said, when 00:10:07.159 --> 00:10:14.029 you tally in children, adults, and the different 00:10:14.029 --> 00:10:17.549 communities that we have around the world. That's 00:10:17.549 --> 00:10:20.710 actually still quite a high number. Bear in mind, 00:10:20.710 --> 00:10:24.470 it's linked to over 871 ,000 deaths per year. 00:10:25.570 --> 00:10:29.730 That's roughly 100 deaths per hour from isolation 00:10:29.730 --> 00:10:35.649 -related causes. Do you know it actually rivals 00:10:35.649 --> 00:10:44.259 smoking for early death? Okay. That's terrifying. 00:10:44.740 --> 00:10:47.519 It increases the risk of heart disease by 29%. 00:10:47.519 --> 00:10:54.539 Oh, dear. It's something that you don't attribute 00:10:54.539 --> 00:11:00.240 to heart disease, right? But your well -being, 00:11:00.259 --> 00:11:05.120 your sense of well -being, will feed into how 00:11:05.120 --> 00:11:12.220 your body reacts to... alien entities entering 00:11:12.220 --> 00:11:18.039 it and respond to infection and things like that. 00:11:18.179 --> 00:11:23.879 So you being isolated makes you less willing 00:11:23.879 --> 00:11:32.500 and less able to survive. So around 33 % of all 00:11:32.500 --> 00:11:35.279 adults worldwide report feeling lonely, at least 00:11:35.279 --> 00:11:39.200 sometimes. It's one third of the adult population. 00:11:42.730 --> 00:11:46.269 It's huge. If we look at the rest of the population, 00:11:46.549 --> 00:11:50.610 the elderly, obviously that's going to be quite 00:11:50.610 --> 00:11:53.870 high. That's going to be huge. Globally, around 00:11:53.870 --> 00:11:58.529 12 % report frequent loneliness, but it hits 00:11:58.529 --> 00:12:03.470 about 30%. One in four seniors worldwide feel 00:12:03.470 --> 00:12:11.120 alone or isolated all the time. Now, I'm... Hugely 00:12:11.120 --> 00:12:15.580 concerned about the next numbers because it's 00:12:15.580 --> 00:12:17.620 to do with the young, and if they start this 00:12:17.620 --> 00:12:23.320 way, things will only get worse. But teenagers 00:12:23.320 --> 00:12:29.039 and young adults, this is 13 to 29, between 17 00:12:29.039 --> 00:12:35.100 and 21 % globally feel lonely. 13 to 17 -year 00:12:35.100 --> 00:12:40.879 -olds is 15 to 18, sorry, is... One in five. 00:12:40.919 --> 00:12:45.700 It's 20 .9 % for 13 to 17 -year -olds. One in 00:12:45.700 --> 00:12:49.600 five teenagers feel lonely. Between 15 and 18, 00:12:49.740 --> 00:12:55.740 it goes up to 25%. And between the ages of 19 00:12:55.740 --> 00:13:01.940 to 29, it gets to around about one in three young 00:13:01.940 --> 00:13:07.500 adults feel lonely or isolated. Is that all the 00:13:07.500 --> 00:13:12.419 time, did you say? Yeah. Daily loneliness. 63 00:13:12.419 --> 00:13:17.279 % of that one in three people link it to anxiety 00:13:17.279 --> 00:13:20.340 or depression, this sense of fear in the community. 00:13:21.360 --> 00:13:25.120 Yeah. I genuinely think it's terrifying how the 00:13:25.120 --> 00:13:27.539 youngest, supposedly the most connected generation, 00:13:27.720 --> 00:13:31.460 feels the most isolated. And I really do think 00:13:31.460 --> 00:13:39.700 that social media is the reason for that. Do 00:13:39.700 --> 00:13:42.960 you feel that it's, what, because of the fake 00:13:42.960 --> 00:13:47.960 connection? Because it's... Yeah, yeah. So one 00:13:47.960 --> 00:13:51.720 of the biggest causes of isolation is a lack 00:13:51.720 --> 00:13:54.519 of meaningful connection. You mentioned it yourself 00:13:54.519 --> 00:13:58.159 earlier on in the podcast. Yeah? It's that sense 00:13:58.159 --> 00:14:00.919 of no depth to your connection, just surface 00:14:00.919 --> 00:14:05.580 -level interaction. Social media, it breeds this 00:14:05.580 --> 00:14:09.759 sense of surface -level interaction. It's like 00:14:09.759 --> 00:14:14.940 standing in a hall of mirrors. Everybody is just 00:14:14.940 --> 00:14:20.519 a sheet of glass. That's all you see. What you 00:14:20.519 --> 00:14:23.960 don't see is what's behind their eyes, what's 00:14:23.960 --> 00:14:27.059 going on inside their mind. How many times just 00:14:27.059 --> 00:14:30.000 in your life can you remember posting something 00:14:30.000 --> 00:14:33.279 on social media as almost like a cry for help? 00:14:33.779 --> 00:14:36.820 And what you get is a thumbs up or a love heart, 00:14:36.960 --> 00:14:41.200 but nobody calls you. Nobody comes around to 00:14:41.200 --> 00:14:52.679 see you. Yeah. Yeah, and I can think of all the 00:14:52.679 --> 00:14:54.299 times that people have asked me a question and 00:14:54.299 --> 00:14:58.259 I've responded with just a thumbs up on their 00:14:58.259 --> 00:15:03.159 message just because there's not anything I can 00:15:03.159 --> 00:15:05.179 do or say in that situation, but I want them 00:15:05.179 --> 00:15:09.009 to know that I've seen their message. And that 00:15:09.009 --> 00:15:13.210 I've read it, but I'm aware that that's an inadequate 00:15:13.210 --> 00:15:21.230 response. Yeah. Yeah. So society's influences 00:15:21.230 --> 00:15:23.330 are like invisible currents pulling us apart. 00:15:23.629 --> 00:15:26.230 And the information abundance that we're in, 00:15:26.269 --> 00:15:30.289 it floods us, but it leaves us thirsty for real 00:15:30.289 --> 00:15:34.590 connections, right? Yeah. Being able to get information 00:15:34.590 --> 00:15:37.570 at the touch of a button. It's not just information 00:15:37.570 --> 00:15:42.590 that you're getting. It's misinformation. Misinformation 00:15:42.590 --> 00:15:48.169 is another important trigger to this sense of 00:15:48.169 --> 00:15:53.809 helplessness. So let's talk about some themes. 00:15:54.450 --> 00:15:58.970 Obviously, the information abundance, right? 00:15:59.809 --> 00:16:02.490 Interconnectivity all around the world. You get 00:16:02.490 --> 00:16:07.529 news from like... You can get news from bloody 00:16:07.529 --> 00:16:12.210 Cambodia. And imagine, right, your brain is a 00:16:12.210 --> 00:16:17.929 sponge. And it soaks up all that bad news, wars, 00:16:18.149 --> 00:16:23.529 disasters, climate crises. And it feels, it makes 00:16:23.529 --> 00:16:28.590 us feel responsible for fixing everything. But 00:16:28.590 --> 00:16:32.210 what power do you really have to fix any of it? 00:16:33.289 --> 00:16:39.409 See, the human brain, it's not designed to deal 00:16:39.409 --> 00:16:44.769 with problems that it can't fix. And when it 00:16:44.769 --> 00:16:47.929 is presented with issues that are larger than 00:16:47.929 --> 00:16:53.769 its control, it will resolve back into this sense 00:16:53.769 --> 00:17:03.179 of isolation, powerlessness, helplessness. How 00:17:03.179 --> 00:17:08.140 many times have you heard that you're turning 00:17:08.140 --> 00:17:11.799 the light off or you're turning the tap off or 00:17:11.799 --> 00:17:14.200 only having a shower and not having a bath can 00:17:14.200 --> 00:17:21.640 have an impact on climate change? I mean, I'm 00:17:21.640 --> 00:17:26.880 told a fair amount, but it's... What's the reality? 00:17:28.000 --> 00:17:33.049 Honestly, speaking... frankly about what your 00:17:33.049 --> 00:17:40.589 impact could have could be on that okay so realistically 00:17:40.589 --> 00:17:50.890 unfortunately i've worked at i've in my early 00:17:50.890 --> 00:17:54.130 20s i worked for a pub which went out of business 00:17:54.130 --> 00:17:59.269 and something they used to do was rather than 00:17:59.980 --> 00:18:03.440 pay for someone to take their recycling away 00:18:03.440 --> 00:18:06.279 is they'd wait until there weren't any many too 00:18:06.279 --> 00:18:10.339 many customers around and they'd burn it like 00:18:10.339 --> 00:18:14.839 huge piles huge absolute massive bonfires and 00:18:14.839 --> 00:18:20.039 they just they do that every I suppose every 00:18:20.039 --> 00:18:23.140 month or so I'm really glad I didn't work there 00:18:23.140 --> 00:18:26.700 for very long that I never had to do it and that 00:18:26.700 --> 00:18:31.420 I wasn't directly responsible for that But it 00:18:31.420 --> 00:18:35.640 did undermine... My mum's a good person and she 00:18:35.640 --> 00:18:40.460 cares a lot about the environment and she does 00:18:40.460 --> 00:18:43.859 her best to recycle as much as she possibly can. 00:18:44.700 --> 00:18:52.559 But it does make it... It does... It makes your 00:18:52.559 --> 00:18:57.220 efforts feel meaningless. Exactly. And then whenever 00:18:57.220 --> 00:19:02.859 I've worked at any big company, just the wastage 00:19:02.859 --> 00:19:07.220 is huge. Wastage, absolutely. I worked for Tesco. 00:19:07.579 --> 00:19:12.900 And at the end of the day, the amount of food, 00:19:13.200 --> 00:19:18.500 fresh food, that would just be binned. The amount 00:19:18.500 --> 00:19:23.670 of times I have seen... adverts on tv telling 00:19:23.670 --> 00:19:26.170 us how important it is to turn our lights off 00:19:26.170 --> 00:19:33.069 and yet this tesco huge shop shuts at 10 o 'clock 00:19:33.069 --> 00:19:37.130 of a night time did they turn any of their lights 00:19:37.130 --> 00:19:41.069 off no did they have people literally still uh 00:19:41.069 --> 00:19:45.490 shelf stacking all throughout the night no oh 00:19:45.490 --> 00:19:49.140 no We would have an hour until 11 o 'clock. The 00:19:49.140 --> 00:19:50.779 shop would shut at 10. We'd have an hour until 00:19:50.779 --> 00:19:53.380 11 o 'clock to stack the rest of the shelves 00:19:53.380 --> 00:19:58.720 and everybody would go home. Wow. And they would 00:19:58.720 --> 00:20:03.160 leave their lights on because you can't advertise 00:20:03.160 --> 00:20:08.839 stock that nobody can see. That's their policy. 00:20:09.460 --> 00:20:12.900 So you tell me how me turning my lights off affects 00:20:12.900 --> 00:20:17.130 the globe. But do you know how we can turn that 00:20:17.130 --> 00:20:23.390 one instance, that example, into a sense of feeling 00:20:23.390 --> 00:20:28.450 like you've done your bit? How can we turn that 00:20:28.450 --> 00:20:34.190 feeling around and make your choice, your action 00:20:34.190 --> 00:20:41.569 of turning that light off, mean something? I 00:20:41.569 --> 00:20:46.630 guess you can... You can hold corporate or corporations 00:20:46.630 --> 00:20:50.450 and like larger stores responsible. But when 00:20:50.450 --> 00:20:54.049 it comes to the feeling, I mean, I guess you 00:20:54.049 --> 00:20:56.190 can tell yourself that if you're all doing it 00:20:56.190 --> 00:21:03.269 together, then it makes a difference. The reality 00:21:03.269 --> 00:21:08.650 is in order to get that feeling back, you need 00:21:08.650 --> 00:21:13.759 to turn it inwards. Why do I turn my lights off? 00:21:16.200 --> 00:21:19.000 Because it helps you save money. There you go. 00:21:22.339 --> 00:21:26.400 That's all that matters. Turn it into something 00:21:26.400 --> 00:21:30.660 that you have an impact on. Turn it into something 00:21:30.660 --> 00:21:38.480 that you have a sense of meaning in. I turn my 00:21:38.480 --> 00:21:42.259 lights off because it costs me less money. If 00:21:42.259 --> 00:21:47.980 I do so. And it has a positive effect on my life 00:21:47.980 --> 00:21:51.559 because then I have more money to spend on things 00:21:51.559 --> 00:21:55.940 that I need. And that, I know it's a very simple 00:21:55.940 --> 00:22:00.700 example, but that's the reality. Don't think 00:22:00.700 --> 00:22:06.299 too big. Think your community. And what is your 00:22:06.299 --> 00:22:13.319 real community? How much can you impact? That's 00:22:13.319 --> 00:22:17.339 your community. Who can you reach? Who can you 00:22:17.339 --> 00:22:26.059 help? So that's how you turn news and information 00:22:26.059 --> 00:22:32.400 from being an overload into digestible elements 00:22:32.400 --> 00:22:39.460 that you can manage. Stop trying to consume global 00:22:39.460 --> 00:22:43.779 news. in the grand scheme of things, are relevant. 00:22:44.859 --> 00:22:47.819 It might well have a ripple effect that affects 00:22:47.819 --> 00:22:51.220 you as an individual or your community, your 00:22:51.220 --> 00:22:54.900 direct connections at some point. But the reality 00:22:54.900 --> 00:23:00.000 is Donald Trump trying to start World War III 00:23:00.000 --> 00:23:04.279 because he wants Greenland is going to have, 00:23:04.279 --> 00:23:09.519 for the foreseeable future, minimal impact on 00:23:09.519 --> 00:23:15.460 my direct life. So why do I need to know? You 00:23:15.460 --> 00:23:20.279 see, the thing is, right, how many times have 00:23:20.279 --> 00:23:25.019 you been in bed, on your phone, doing what I 00:23:25.019 --> 00:23:26.880 call doom scrolling, right? Scrolling through 00:23:26.880 --> 00:23:31.000 headlines and every time you read something else 00:23:31.000 --> 00:23:35.119 that's happened, it fires you up. Fires you up 00:23:35.119 --> 00:23:40.779 and you get a sense of excitement or anxiety. 00:23:41.710 --> 00:23:46.549 at what impact that could have on you. And then 00:23:46.549 --> 00:23:49.690 you've got no one to talk that through with. 00:23:51.650 --> 00:23:58.829 You see, empathy overload is a real thing. Oh, 00:23:58.829 --> 00:24:03.029 I've heard of compassion fatigue. Exactly. Compassion 00:24:03.029 --> 00:24:05.849 fatigue, empathy overload. You're too exhausted. 00:24:06.049 --> 00:24:09.089 What that does then, you're so worried about 00:24:09.089 --> 00:24:10.890 everything else that's going on in the world. 00:24:11.600 --> 00:24:14.240 When one of your friends comes round because 00:24:14.240 --> 00:24:18.599 they've broken up with their girlfriend, you're 00:24:18.599 --> 00:24:25.319 too exhausted to help them. And yet in the real 00:24:25.319 --> 00:24:29.440 world, in your real world, that's the connection 00:24:29.440 --> 00:24:31.779 you needed. That's the one you were looking for 00:24:31.779 --> 00:24:37.519 when you were doomscrolling. That's what you 00:24:37.519 --> 00:24:41.400 look for. So social media, hyper -connectivity, 00:24:41.539 --> 00:24:43.900 right? This is another analogy that I wrote down 00:24:43.900 --> 00:24:46.779 earlier. It's all a hall of mirrors. Everyone's 00:24:46.779 --> 00:24:52.059 life looks so shiny, but yours feels flat. Hyper 00:24:52.059 --> 00:24:56.279 -connected via likes, but there's no deep talks. 00:24:57.519 --> 00:25:01.880 You know, on average, heavy users browse social 00:25:01.880 --> 00:25:06.950 media two or more hours per day. And they're 00:25:06.950 --> 00:25:16.589 twice as likely to feel lonely. And that literally 00:25:16.589 --> 00:25:24.990 says it all. The more time you spend... Yeah, 00:25:25.130 --> 00:25:29.190 like, the more time you spend scrolling, the 00:25:29.190 --> 00:25:32.109 more time you're not talking with a human. like 00:25:32.109 --> 00:25:34.849 person the less time you're looking them in the 00:25:34.849 --> 00:25:38.789 eye like but how many times like i've got i've 00:25:38.789 --> 00:25:43.529 got i've got young daughters right and i look 00:25:43.529 --> 00:25:47.329 at them browsing social media and then i see 00:25:47.329 --> 00:25:51.829 my 13 year old daughter unable to go to school 00:25:51.829 --> 00:25:54.750 unless she's got her lashes on she's done her 00:25:54.750 --> 00:25:57.869 makeup she's got her skirt right she's got her 00:25:57.869 --> 00:26:03.690 her shirt right That's all because social media 00:26:03.690 --> 00:26:07.490 tells her she has to look a certain way in order 00:26:07.490 --> 00:26:10.750 to fit in. Yeah, in order to be accepted. At 00:26:10.750 --> 00:26:18.190 13 years old. No. I'm going to be honest with 00:26:18.190 --> 00:26:25.769 you. It does get ridiculous. I've worked with 00:26:25.769 --> 00:26:29.549 several youth clubs. And I have had to correct 00:26:29.549 --> 00:26:33.609 people. I've literally had to correct 12 -year 00:26:33.609 --> 00:26:37.910 -olds body shaming someone. The annoying thing 00:26:37.910 --> 00:26:41.130 is they were body shaming this person because 00:26:41.130 --> 00:26:44.849 they were being ridiculous themselves. But I 00:26:44.849 --> 00:26:50.390 had to be like, guys, what are you doing? She's 00:26:50.390 --> 00:26:56.839 12. You're angry with her. Because she said this 00:26:56.839 --> 00:27:01.420 and acted like this, not... Yeah, no, exactly. 00:27:02.220 --> 00:27:07.759 You see, we, speaking real here, my son, who's 00:27:07.759 --> 00:27:12.339 12, and my daughter, who's 13. I have got two 00:27:12.339 --> 00:27:15.640 other daughters, but they're 16 and 17. So we 00:27:15.640 --> 00:27:17.480 haven't been as heavy handed, shall we say, with 00:27:17.480 --> 00:27:21.140 them as we have been with the younger ones. the 00:27:21.140 --> 00:27:23.799 12 and 13 year old, we have had them delete all 00:27:23.799 --> 00:27:27.079 social media from their phones. And I will tell 00:27:27.079 --> 00:27:31.039 you this, we did that. I mean, I'll tell you 00:27:31.039 --> 00:27:33.000 the story from beginning to end, right? My son, 00:27:33.099 --> 00:27:37.819 he embraced the change quite willingly. We've 00:27:37.819 --> 00:27:40.400 allowed them to keep WhatsApp as a means to connect 00:27:40.400 --> 00:27:43.119 like via text message to their friends, but they 00:27:43.119 --> 00:27:45.299 have to know the people in order to have them 00:27:45.299 --> 00:27:47.359 saved on their phone. So WhatsApp, fair enough. 00:27:48.559 --> 00:27:55.369 But Snapchat, TikTok, anything else that allows 00:27:55.369 --> 00:27:58.630 them to generate or views short form content, 00:27:58.809 --> 00:28:03.109 unfiltered, submitted by users around the world. 00:28:03.289 --> 00:28:09.630 We've stopped it. And the shocker for me was 00:28:09.630 --> 00:28:12.990 my 13 year old daughter, because when we told 00:28:12.990 --> 00:28:15.529 her that social media was going from her phone 00:28:15.529 --> 00:28:21.150 and we explained why, she cried. She cried so 00:28:21.150 --> 00:28:25.589 hard and she felt like we were attacking her. 00:28:26.529 --> 00:28:29.970 But we've watched her for months now, become 00:28:29.970 --> 00:28:32.730 more and more isolated, spend more and more time 00:28:32.730 --> 00:28:37.529 in her bed, on her phone, scrolling along in 00:28:37.529 --> 00:28:40.910 her room, becoming more and more miserable, more 00:28:40.910 --> 00:28:44.690 and more zombified. You ask her, what do you 00:28:44.690 --> 00:28:47.710 want to do today? She goes, I don't know, nothing. 00:28:49.200 --> 00:28:53.920 And that, like you, it's almost like she's looking 00:28:53.920 --> 00:28:59.559 to you to tell her what she should be doing instead 00:28:59.559 --> 00:29:04.460 of how she's feeling, what she wants to do. And 00:29:04.460 --> 00:29:10.180 we deleted social media from her phone two days 00:29:10.180 --> 00:29:16.180 ago. The last two days, it has been night and 00:29:16.180 --> 00:29:20.299 day with this girl. she is a different child 00:29:20.299 --> 00:29:24.140 she is having to come out of her room to make 00:29:24.140 --> 00:29:27.160 connections with people she has livened right 00:29:27.160 --> 00:29:32.619 up embracing time with her family again making 00:29:32.619 --> 00:29:35.079 connections with her friends going out to see 00:29:35.079 --> 00:29:37.680 her friends because she can't just get them on 00:29:37.680 --> 00:29:43.519 snapchat and she's a different kid she is an 00:29:43.519 --> 00:29:46.880 absolutely different kid and It's incredible 00:29:46.880 --> 00:29:49.200 the power that social media has over our young 00:29:49.200 --> 00:29:53.500 people. And we need we need to be so careful. 00:29:54.819 --> 00:29:57.680 Let me tell you a little story. This is I've 00:29:57.680 --> 00:30:00.420 got a bigger story that I want to go through 00:30:00.420 --> 00:30:03.720 later on is a bit of a narrative. But today on 00:30:03.720 --> 00:30:05.259 the train, right, I went and got my son today 00:30:05.259 --> 00:30:08.900 from his mom and travel on the train to do so. 00:30:08.940 --> 00:30:13.059 Right. And there was a dad and a mom, an American 00:30:13.059 --> 00:30:15.190 couple that were. obviously travelling with their 00:30:15.190 --> 00:30:19.430 kids, and they had three kids, two boys and one 00:30:19.430 --> 00:30:23.089 daughter. Young, maybe the oldest might have 00:30:23.089 --> 00:30:28.250 been five or six, right? And the dad is on his 00:30:28.250 --> 00:30:31.450 phone. Mum is browsing Facebook. The kids are 00:30:31.450 --> 00:30:36.170 getting loud and rary. And the dad keeps getting 00:30:36.170 --> 00:30:38.670 angry and snapping. Can you just sit down? Look 00:30:38.670 --> 00:30:43.029 out the window. And all I could think was... 00:30:43.500 --> 00:30:49.660 Why are these kids unable to sit quietly? Why 00:30:49.660 --> 00:30:54.880 are they unable to find something to do amongst 00:30:54.880 --> 00:30:59.140 themselves? And it dawned on me, the reason that 00:30:59.140 --> 00:31:03.420 they can't is because they have not been shown 00:31:03.420 --> 00:31:08.779 how. What method, and it's an assumption, I'll 00:31:08.779 --> 00:31:11.210 admit. But based on their behavior, I think it's 00:31:11.210 --> 00:31:14.049 a safe assumption. What method do you think when 00:31:14.049 --> 00:31:16.769 they're home, mum and dad use to keep the kids 00:31:16.769 --> 00:31:21.190 quiet? Is it stick them on their phones? Stick 00:31:21.190 --> 00:31:23.549 them on a device or put a screen in front of 00:31:23.549 --> 00:31:28.309 them. The simple fix, the quick fix. The same 00:31:28.309 --> 00:31:30.769 as what mum and dad are doing. They need their 00:31:30.769 --> 00:31:33.309 sense of dopamine. They're on their phone. They're 00:31:33.309 --> 00:31:35.009 scrolling through. They're getting that quick 00:31:35.009 --> 00:31:37.910 fix of dopamine. And they're teaching that to 00:31:37.910 --> 00:31:43.440 their kids. If they taught their kids not to 00:31:43.440 --> 00:31:47.359 use a screen, to use their brain, to be creative, 00:31:47.579 --> 00:31:50.819 to find something to do. I mean, it's one thing 00:31:50.819 --> 00:31:54.160 for a kid to be loud. Kids will be kids. Excited 00:31:54.160 --> 00:32:00.319 kids are loud. But a happy child is a happy sound. 00:32:01.680 --> 00:32:05.200 And an unhappy child is a horrible discordant 00:32:05.200 --> 00:32:10.900 sound. And these kids were unhappy. And every 00:32:10.900 --> 00:32:13.880 time that dad said, just sit down, just look 00:32:13.880 --> 00:32:17.140 out the window, all I could think was you giving 00:32:17.140 --> 00:32:20.299 them negative attention when all they want is 00:32:20.299 --> 00:32:23.720 your attention. All they want is you to spend 00:32:23.720 --> 00:32:28.960 some time with them. And when I went and got 00:32:28.960 --> 00:32:33.859 my son, the journey home, I kept that in my mind 00:32:33.859 --> 00:32:38.950 the whole way home, right? We, I've got a sticker 00:32:38.950 --> 00:32:42.750 book in my bag, which I sometimes grab out when 00:32:42.750 --> 00:32:45.930 we're on the train and I give it to my son who's 00:32:45.930 --> 00:32:49.589 eight and he sits and does some stickers and 00:32:49.589 --> 00:32:51.410 maybe I go on my phone whilst that's going on 00:32:51.410 --> 00:32:53.309 or maybe I encourage him to do his puzzles if 00:32:53.309 --> 00:32:58.069 I'm talking honestly. And today I decided, no, 00:32:58.170 --> 00:33:01.809 none of that. We're going to be together. We're 00:33:01.809 --> 00:33:05.230 going to play some games. So we played I Spy 00:33:05.230 --> 00:33:08.440 out the window. we played um i don't know if 00:33:08.440 --> 00:33:10.259 you've ever played 21 where you have to say like 00:33:10.259 --> 00:33:12.460 one two three and then the next person says like 00:33:12.460 --> 00:33:14.960 between one and three next numbers and then you 00:33:14.960 --> 00:33:17.859 but the idea is you can't say the last number 00:33:17.859 --> 00:33:20.740 so you have to try and set up the sequence so 00:33:20.740 --> 00:33:23.220 that the other person ends up having to say 21 00:33:23.220 --> 00:33:28.839 right um that means whoever whoever's like says 00:33:28.839 --> 00:33:34.289 17 yeah Oh, no. No, no, no. It's no. Okay. Whoever 00:33:34.289 --> 00:33:37.869 says 16, the next person can say 17, 18, 19. 00:33:37.890 --> 00:33:40.630 Oh, no. Yeah. He's 17. He's 17. And then the 00:33:40.630 --> 00:33:42.950 next person goes 18, 19, 20. And then you're 00:33:42.950 --> 00:33:45.710 stuck, basically. So if you say 17, you're pretty 00:33:45.710 --> 00:33:48.609 much screwed. Right. But he's eight years old. 00:33:48.650 --> 00:33:51.890 He didn't know that set up. Right. And we did 00:33:51.890 --> 00:33:55.630 the same thing. Give him time. He did. He did. 00:33:55.750 --> 00:33:58.809 Trust me. We changed it up. We did the alphabet 00:33:58.809 --> 00:34:00.950 as well. We did the same theory. but with the 00:34:00.950 --> 00:34:03.730 alphabet. So you're not allowed to say Z. Made 00:34:03.730 --> 00:34:05.430 it a bit more complicated after he sussed that. 00:34:05.549 --> 00:34:08.630 So it kept the game going for a bit longer. So 00:34:08.630 --> 00:34:11.630 he's going to know his basic numbers and letters 00:34:11.630 --> 00:34:14.150 pretty well. Well, and our train got delayed, 00:34:14.329 --> 00:34:17.289 right? So our train got delayed. We got delayed 00:34:17.289 --> 00:34:19.650 coming back for an extra hour. So we were on 00:34:19.650 --> 00:34:22.050 the train for another hour. That's four hours 00:34:22.050 --> 00:34:23.710 we were traveling on the train together for. 00:34:24.469 --> 00:34:30.090 Right. And when we got back, I said to him. did 00:34:30.090 --> 00:34:32.630 you have more fun today than you would have done 00:34:32.630 --> 00:34:35.969 if I had have given you a sticker book or we 00:34:35.969 --> 00:34:38.130 had a watched like Dragon Ball on my phone, which 00:34:38.130 --> 00:34:40.510 is something he enjoys doing with me. And he 00:34:40.510 --> 00:34:43.289 went, yeah, I had loads of fun. Really enjoyed 00:34:43.289 --> 00:34:44.909 the journey. And I was like, you know, we were 00:34:44.909 --> 00:34:46.650 on the train for longer today than we are normally. 00:34:46.809 --> 00:34:49.550 And he was like, yeah, but it was fun. Really 00:34:49.550 --> 00:34:53.389 enjoyed it. And I was like, and it just shows. 00:34:53.869 --> 00:34:56.369 He was quiet. He was meanable. He was a really 00:34:56.369 --> 00:35:00.460 polite kid. fist bump the train train director 00:35:00.460 --> 00:35:01.960 when he came by and he bought his ticket off 00:35:01.960 --> 00:35:04.699 him um or i bought his ticket off him it was 00:35:04.699 --> 00:35:06.619 such a different experience and i was like you 00:35:06.619 --> 00:35:11.900 know what that is proof in itself that connecting 00:35:11.900 --> 00:35:15.760 with people directly with like around you it 00:35:15.760 --> 00:35:21.260 it does make you happy and that's the important 00:35:21.260 --> 00:35:28.860 thing to remember you know yeah No, that, like, 00:35:28.980 --> 00:35:35.039 just an honest, real connection. Yeah. Yeah, 00:35:35.059 --> 00:35:37.099 that's fair. Like, I love the fact that you were 00:35:37.099 --> 00:35:42.199 able to keep your kid entertained for four hours, 00:35:42.300 --> 00:35:45.539 and that's fantastic. The thing is, when I got 00:35:45.539 --> 00:35:48.920 started, it wasn't a slog. It wasn't difficult. 00:35:50.940 --> 00:35:53.760 It wasn't difficult at all. And not once did 00:35:53.760 --> 00:35:56.739 he ask me if he could have another method of, 00:35:56.739 --> 00:36:00.320 like, He was completely happy to just sit there 00:36:00.320 --> 00:36:05.480 and say I spy out the window. My son's got this 00:36:05.480 --> 00:36:10.719 inherent need to win every game that we play. 00:36:11.280 --> 00:36:14.440 And when we were playing I spy, he started making 00:36:14.440 --> 00:36:18.059 these really convoluted spies out of the window, 00:36:18.139 --> 00:36:21.059 right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I hear you. Like, what 00:36:21.059 --> 00:36:24.219 do you see? oh, it starts with an A, it's an 00:36:24.219 --> 00:36:26.699 atom of this. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that kind of 00:36:26.699 --> 00:36:28.699 thing, right? And I was like, okay, what I want 00:36:28.699 --> 00:36:31.760 you to try to do is actually think of things 00:36:31.760 --> 00:36:34.579 that are visible to you right there and then, 00:36:34.659 --> 00:36:36.840 apparent as anything, so that I can guess them. 00:36:37.719 --> 00:36:40.539 And we did that, and I guessed every one, and 00:36:40.539 --> 00:36:43.880 then I'd guess one, I'd say one, and he'd guess 00:36:43.880 --> 00:36:46.079 it straight away, but the game went on ten times 00:36:46.079 --> 00:36:49.219 longer than he would have done if he had made 00:36:49.219 --> 00:36:50.800 it more difficult so that I didn't want to play 00:36:50.800 --> 00:36:55.030 anymore. And he realized that it's not about 00:36:55.030 --> 00:36:59.110 getting something that they don't guess. It's 00:36:59.110 --> 00:37:03.909 about it being fun. And in order for something 00:37:03.909 --> 00:37:08.190 to be fun, you need to be winning at it. And 00:37:08.190 --> 00:37:10.530 that's both of you need to be winning at it. 00:37:12.789 --> 00:37:15.050 And that keeps the excitement up, keeps you wanting 00:37:15.050 --> 00:37:18.630 to keep playing. Because you're both winning 00:37:18.630 --> 00:37:30.750 in your own way. Yeah. So there is another story 00:37:30.750 --> 00:37:36.469 that I wanted to go into, but this is something 00:37:36.469 --> 00:37:39.710 that I kind of wrote, and you have to go with 00:37:39.710 --> 00:37:41.449 me here because I've just written some talking 00:37:41.449 --> 00:37:44.110 points, and then I was going to use a bit of 00:37:44.110 --> 00:37:46.110 creativity to try and go through it as we go, 00:37:46.210 --> 00:37:52.239 right? But let's talk about Jamie, right? 25 00:37:52.239 --> 00:38:00.079 -year -old, remote worker, lives isolated, works 00:38:00.079 --> 00:38:03.539 from home. Okay, absolute disaster path, but 00:38:03.539 --> 00:38:06.380 let's keep going. Sorry. There's so many people 00:38:06.380 --> 00:38:10.760 now that work from home. I work from home. Yeah? 00:38:12.239 --> 00:38:15.699 First thing they wake up to, they grab their 00:38:15.699 --> 00:38:19.500 phone. They can see they've got notifications. 00:38:21.449 --> 00:38:26.329 They've got notifications of a news alert, something 00:38:26.329 --> 00:38:30.510 crazy's happened in America, shock horror. And 00:38:30.510 --> 00:38:34.329 that immediately, it's like waking up and stubbing 00:38:34.329 --> 00:38:36.530 your toe, right? You know, if you stub your toe 00:38:36.530 --> 00:38:37.889 when you first wake up, you know you're going 00:38:37.889 --> 00:38:42.329 to have a crap day. Then they start scrolling 00:38:42.329 --> 00:38:46.510 Instagram. They get that dopamine fix before 00:38:46.510 --> 00:38:48.670 they get out of bed. They're scrolling, scrolling. 00:38:50.440 --> 00:38:58.860 respond to a couple of messages, and then they 00:38:58.860 --> 00:39:12.159 get out of bed. They go to work, right? And at 00:39:12.159 --> 00:39:17.360 work, they're met by their friends, their colleagues, 00:39:17.619 --> 00:39:21.960 and they're like, Talking about, did you see 00:39:21.960 --> 00:39:24.960 their Snapchat the other day? Did you see this 00:39:24.960 --> 00:39:28.800 person, that person? This guy is really popular, 00:39:28.920 --> 00:39:32.079 always surrounded by loads of people, right? 00:39:32.940 --> 00:39:36.059 He's got loads of followers on social media. 00:39:36.980 --> 00:39:41.079 Loads of people really like this guy, right? 00:39:43.440 --> 00:39:48.489 They're all so worried about... What's he going 00:39:48.489 --> 00:39:50.650 to say to do next? What's he going to suggest? 00:39:53.829 --> 00:40:01.469 And he's like, well, what should I get them wearing 00:40:01.469 --> 00:40:03.769 next? How shall I get them to have their hair? 00:40:07.010 --> 00:40:12.369 And the thing that people always say about this 00:40:12.369 --> 00:40:16.030 guy is he's always laughing. He's always so happy. 00:40:16.170 --> 00:40:20.369 He's always laughing. And he works all day. And 00:40:20.369 --> 00:40:23.369 then he goes, meets his friends for drinks and 00:40:23.369 --> 00:40:25.849 they're at the pub and they're surrounded by 00:40:25.849 --> 00:40:28.829 loads of people and his phone's going off and 00:40:28.829 --> 00:40:32.989 he's constantly checking his phone and talking 00:40:32.989 --> 00:40:35.690 to people. And people are always just talking 00:40:35.690 --> 00:40:41.929 at him, not really talking about him, talking 00:40:41.929 --> 00:40:44.769 to him. in conversation because nobody knows 00:40:44.769 --> 00:40:48.690 how to now, right? You just talk about you. You 00:40:48.690 --> 00:40:51.929 talk about people. You don't actively listen 00:40:51.929 --> 00:40:55.090 to what they've got to say. So everybody just 00:40:55.090 --> 00:40:57.769 gives their bit and then somebody else gives 00:40:57.769 --> 00:41:00.670 their bit. Somebody else gives their bit. No 00:41:00.670 --> 00:41:04.550 one person actually listens to what anybody else 00:41:04.550 --> 00:41:06.889 has to say. It's more about what you've got to 00:41:06.889 --> 00:41:14.760 say. It gets to the end of the night. And he 00:41:14.760 --> 00:41:27.320 goes home. Opens the door at home. Goes in. Turns 00:41:27.320 --> 00:41:33.380 the lights on. Dark, cold house. Sits on the 00:41:33.380 --> 00:41:44.309 sofa. Picks up his phone. One of his mates, whilst 00:41:44.309 --> 00:41:48.530 they were out, saw his ex -girlfriend. He was 00:41:48.530 --> 00:41:52.670 hooked up with his ex -girlfriend. Pang. Oh, 00:41:52.690 --> 00:41:54.949 shit. Any reason why he should feel that way, 00:41:55.030 --> 00:41:59.670 but nope, nope, there it is. All the more justification 00:41:59.670 --> 00:42:03.289 the reason the walls start closing in, right? 00:42:04.670 --> 00:42:11.250 A sense of coldness in his house gets colder. 00:42:13.769 --> 00:42:16.289 All the shadows seem to be creeping in around 00:42:16.289 --> 00:42:24.090 him. He starts to hyperventilate. For all intents 00:42:24.090 --> 00:42:26.130 and purposes to everybody else, there's no reason 00:42:26.130 --> 00:42:30.949 why this guy should be sad. No reason why this 00:42:30.949 --> 00:42:38.289 guy should feel alone. He hasn't got anybody 00:42:38.289 --> 00:42:41.250 he can really call to talk to about how he's 00:42:41.250 --> 00:42:44.300 feeling. And yet he's connected to so many different 00:42:44.300 --> 00:42:53.719 people. Feels so hollow. So he decides he's going 00:42:53.719 --> 00:42:55.420 to go for a walk. Needs to get out of the house. 00:42:56.179 --> 00:42:59.840 Yep. Eyes still red and puffy from where he's 00:42:59.840 --> 00:43:04.159 been crying. And on his way down these stairs, 00:43:04.320 --> 00:43:06.860 as he's leaving his flat, one of his neighbours 00:43:06.860 --> 00:43:08.639 opens the door. They're taking a bin bag out. 00:43:11.599 --> 00:43:13.119 And they look at him, and they see that his eyes 00:43:13.119 --> 00:43:15.960 are red and puffy, and they go, you're right. 00:43:18.260 --> 00:43:24.599 And he stops. He thinks. And he goes, for the 00:43:24.599 --> 00:43:27.139 first time, probably in a long time, honestly, 00:43:27.400 --> 00:43:35.119 no. No, I don't think I am all right. And this 00:43:35.119 --> 00:43:39.340 person, his neighbor, goes, come in, mate. Have 00:43:39.340 --> 00:43:43.880 a cup of tea. He goes into this house. He sits 00:43:43.880 --> 00:43:47.500 down with this person. He just starts talking 00:43:47.500 --> 00:43:55.840 about how he's feeling. And this person just 00:43:55.840 --> 00:44:03.360 sits and listens. And the more he talks, it's 00:44:03.360 --> 00:44:08.920 like breaking the walls of a dam. Everything 00:44:08.920 --> 00:44:13.219 just starts pouring out. And he starts to feel 00:44:13.219 --> 00:44:22.679 not sad, but relieved. And he's looking at this 00:44:22.679 --> 00:44:27.079 person he's never even thought of speaking to 00:44:27.079 --> 00:44:31.920 before. Never really taken much notice of. And 00:44:31.920 --> 00:44:37.500 they are looking at him like nobody's looked 00:44:37.500 --> 00:44:42.840 at him in so long. Like they're seeing him and 00:44:42.840 --> 00:44:49.380 they're hearing him. And he realizes at that 00:44:49.380 --> 00:44:55.679 point, followers don't mean anything. The people 00:44:55.679 --> 00:45:01.860 he surrounded himself with, it's pointless if 00:45:01.860 --> 00:45:09.260 those people, you're not connected to them. Yeah. 00:45:09.960 --> 00:45:15.059 If you can't tell them how you feel for fear 00:45:15.059 --> 00:45:19.000 of how they might respond. If you can't listen 00:45:19.000 --> 00:45:24.019 to how, if they don't feel safe enough to talk 00:45:24.019 --> 00:45:30.960 to you about how they feel. Because the most 00:45:30.960 --> 00:45:34.739 powerful thing about being connected to people 00:45:34.739 --> 00:45:40.539 is that you can expose your flaws. You can expose 00:45:40.539 --> 00:45:45.059 your vulnerabilities. And instead of judgment, 00:45:45.260 --> 00:45:53.960 what you get from them is love. Support. And 00:45:53.960 --> 00:46:00.380 embrace. Something that makes you feel human 00:46:00.380 --> 00:46:08.179 again. That is the most important thing to remember. 00:46:08.809 --> 00:46:12.050 Something that so many people, all of us I think 00:46:12.050 --> 00:46:17.849 at some point, have forgotten. Your phone, your 00:46:17.849 --> 00:46:21.250 social media account, the friends list on Facebook, 00:46:21.510 --> 00:46:29.929 it's nothing compared to a cup of tea and a chat 00:46:29.929 --> 00:46:44.750 with a real person. Let's bring back that. So 00:46:44.750 --> 00:46:54.010 how? How do we change? Is that a... Sorry, is 00:46:54.010 --> 00:46:56.530 that the start of a sentence or is that a genuine 00:46:56.530 --> 00:46:58.989 question? That was a question. I just wanted 00:46:58.989 --> 00:47:03.130 to make sure because I've... What kind of things 00:47:03.130 --> 00:47:07.579 could we be doing to... I just go through the 00:47:07.579 --> 00:47:10.940 stuff that I do because I was lonely and I don't 00:47:10.940 --> 00:47:15.179 feel I am anymore. So the first thing is you've 00:47:15.179 --> 00:47:22.079 got to, in a way, prepare yourself. So you've 00:47:22.079 --> 00:47:26.739 got to understand that sometimes you're going 00:47:26.739 --> 00:47:29.940 to get it wrong and you're going to share stuff 00:47:29.940 --> 00:47:32.559 and it's not necessarily going to go down well. 00:47:33.179 --> 00:47:35.539 And I don't mean that as in all doom and gloom, 00:47:35.539 --> 00:47:38.599 but what I'm saying is... Be kind to yourself. 00:47:39.000 --> 00:47:42.239 Yeah, sorry. If you fudge up, that's normal. 00:47:42.980 --> 00:47:50.059 Exactly. It's normal to tell a joke and not have 00:47:50.059 --> 00:47:53.079 people laugh. Go down like a leblun. Yeah, it's 00:47:53.079 --> 00:47:58.690 normal to... try and offer someone some encouragement 00:47:58.690 --> 00:48:01.230 but rather than encouraging them you've either 00:48:01.230 --> 00:48:03.230 got your wording wrong and you've brought them 00:48:03.230 --> 00:48:06.190 down a level or you've annoyed them yeah that's 00:48:06.190 --> 00:48:10.570 not that's also normal i know that's a a weird 00:48:10.570 --> 00:48:17.570 thing to say yeah like this this idea this something 00:48:17.570 --> 00:48:20.530 that social media does which i really don't like 00:48:20.530 --> 00:48:23.239 is it always Because of the way the algorithm 00:48:23.239 --> 00:48:25.679 works, you always see like the most talented, 00:48:25.880 --> 00:48:28.440 the most this, the most that, the most clicked 00:48:28.440 --> 00:48:31.420 on. It makes you feel so inadequate, doesn't 00:48:31.420 --> 00:48:34.159 it? Yeah, exactly. And it's just like that's, 00:48:34.159 --> 00:48:37.440 you're going to tell a dad joke and they're either 00:48:37.440 --> 00:48:39.280 not going to get it or they're going to take 00:48:39.280 --> 00:48:41.780 offence. I tell the best jokes. And that's okay. 00:48:41.940 --> 00:48:45.420 I'll be honest, I tell the best jokes and my 00:48:45.420 --> 00:48:47.920 entire household just look at me with a blank 00:48:47.920 --> 00:48:53.369 stare and I'm like. I'm wasted on you people. 00:48:53.510 --> 00:48:55.289 Seriously, I am wasted on you people. That's 00:48:55.289 --> 00:48:58.329 it. And that's how you've got to be. You've got 00:48:58.329 --> 00:49:01.369 to be like, I am not understood in my own time. 00:49:02.190 --> 00:49:07.250 Yeah. You're absolutely right. It is about accepting 00:49:07.250 --> 00:49:11.469 that you can't always be right. You can't always 00:49:11.469 --> 00:49:14.730 be good at what you're doing. That's fine, you 00:49:14.730 --> 00:49:18.489 know? But that's the start of it. Yeah. From 00:49:18.489 --> 00:49:27.179 there. Yeah, okay. So from there, what I'd do 00:49:27.179 --> 00:49:32.920 is understand that arguing with people or not 00:49:32.920 --> 00:49:35.780 necessarily having their full approval of everything 00:49:35.780 --> 00:49:38.639 that you do doesn't mean that they don't care 00:49:38.639 --> 00:49:42.340 about you and isn't necessarily a rejection. 00:49:42.920 --> 00:49:45.880 Like people have been disagreeing since the beginning 00:49:45.880 --> 00:49:49.760 of time. And they're going to continue to disagree. 00:49:49.940 --> 00:49:53.360 Like a book I really need to read, I think is 00:49:53.360 --> 00:49:58.860 called Something Aiders, The Courage to Be Disliked. 00:49:58.880 --> 00:50:02.659 Ah, my daughter's got that book. Yeah. Yeah, 00:50:02.699 --> 00:50:07.179 so you know that it's important to kind of just 00:50:07.179 --> 00:50:12.960 understand that you're not going to... You know, 00:50:12.980 --> 00:50:14.900 if you hit it off with people, brilliant, but 00:50:14.900 --> 00:50:17.099 you're not always going to. Right. Sorry. Now 00:50:17.099 --> 00:50:18.440 that I've got that negative stuff out of the 00:50:18.440 --> 00:50:21.260 way. No, no, no. You're right. Ricky Gervais 00:50:21.260 --> 00:50:26.820 actually says it's normal to be offended. Just 00:50:26.820 --> 00:50:28.599 because you're offended, though, it doesn't mean 00:50:28.599 --> 00:50:39.260 you're right. Yeah. You know what? I'm going 00:50:39.260 --> 00:50:41.300 to say things that are going to rub you up the 00:50:41.300 --> 00:50:48.480 wrong way. That's life. You know what? With all 00:50:48.480 --> 00:50:53.340 due respect, I didn't say it to offend you. You 00:50:53.340 --> 00:50:57.400 chose at that point to take my words as offence. 00:50:58.960 --> 00:51:03.699 That's on you. I'm not going to take that and 00:51:03.699 --> 00:51:06.280 I'm not going to have you put that back on me. 00:51:07.400 --> 00:51:11.480 that's yours because i wouldn't if this whole 00:51:11.480 --> 00:51:14.320 like i'm going to step closely let's step closely 00:51:14.320 --> 00:51:16.260 to the line here but i'm going to speak frankly 00:51:16.260 --> 00:51:23.119 woke culture is a real pain point of mine because 00:51:23.119 --> 00:51:31.559 people seem to think that offense is justification 00:51:31.559 --> 00:51:40.519 for Making someone change. But that's not. That's 00:51:40.519 --> 00:51:46.360 not the truth. Truth is, offense shows that you 00:51:46.360 --> 00:51:49.920 have boundaries and morals that don't align with 00:51:49.920 --> 00:51:55.400 someone else. We are all individual people. We're 00:51:55.400 --> 00:51:58.440 allowed to be different. We're allowed to have 00:51:58.440 --> 00:52:06.599 strong opposing feelings. That's fine. Just because 00:52:06.599 --> 00:52:10.840 I walked up to you, a person who was born male, 00:52:10.980 --> 00:52:17.099 and said, good morning, sir, does not mean because 00:52:17.099 --> 00:52:23.139 you chose to call yourself a different pronoun 00:52:23.139 --> 00:52:28.519 that I attacked you. I didn't get that wrong. 00:52:29.420 --> 00:52:35.610 Use your words and communicate my... wrongdoing, 00:52:35.690 --> 00:52:38.650 for lack of a better term, in a way that says, 00:52:38.829 --> 00:52:41.489 I appreciate you weren't trying to offend me, 00:52:41.590 --> 00:52:45.849 but I don't call myself sir. I call myself madam. 00:52:46.670 --> 00:52:50.349 And I will say, thank you for enlightening me. 00:52:50.989 --> 00:52:55.429 I wouldn't have meant to cause any offence, madam. 00:52:59.030 --> 00:53:03.300 Don't throw it back at me. have you had people 00:53:03.300 --> 00:53:05.500 throw it back at you i was just using that as 00:53:05.500 --> 00:53:08.059 an example because it's a very plain example 00:53:08.059 --> 00:53:11.139 but it's the same thing right yeah no i i just 00:53:11.139 --> 00:53:15.639 i know that i've made mistakes and people haven't 00:53:15.639 --> 00:53:18.099 said anything but i have wanted to apologize 00:53:18.099 --> 00:53:20.519 afterwards and i just i know that i've gotten 00:53:20.519 --> 00:53:23.920 it wrong is if you had if you educate me in a 00:53:23.920 --> 00:53:27.039 way that points my flaws out while accepting 00:53:27.039 --> 00:53:29.599 that i didn't know that in the first place so 00:53:29.599 --> 00:53:32.940 how could i get it right I will do everything 00:53:32.940 --> 00:53:38.500 I can to make sure it doesn't happen again. But 00:53:38.500 --> 00:53:42.920 if you tell me that I am offensive and attack 00:53:42.920 --> 00:53:48.360 me because you took offense, what you'll get 00:53:48.360 --> 00:53:54.900 from me is a defense. And you don't want me when 00:53:54.900 --> 00:54:00.190 I get defensive. Because I will not take that 00:54:00.190 --> 00:54:02.369 feeling that you're trying to give back to me. 00:54:02.869 --> 00:54:11.530 I will give it back to you. Take responsibility 00:54:11.530 --> 00:54:18.630 and understand that everybody has their own way 00:54:18.630 --> 00:54:22.570 of being, their own thinking, and it doesn't 00:54:22.570 --> 00:54:33.000 always have to be the same as yours. Yeah, understandable. 00:54:34.300 --> 00:54:40.420 Like, completely. I think when we talk, going 00:54:40.420 --> 00:54:44.420 from that place of responsibility, and it's kind 00:54:44.420 --> 00:54:47.559 of taken it in a different direction here, but 00:54:47.559 --> 00:54:57.320 once you know that certain things are on you, 00:54:58.190 --> 00:55:01.849 then I'd recommend the way to solve loneliness 00:55:01.849 --> 00:55:07.070 is to clearly communicate your points. Do your 00:55:07.070 --> 00:55:10.510 best not to get emotional or find thought patterns 00:55:10.510 --> 00:55:14.210 that, or kind of get rid of thought patterns 00:55:14.210 --> 00:55:16.349 that make you feel emotional, like you've talked 00:55:16.349 --> 00:55:20.130 about people taking offense. And then I hate 00:55:20.130 --> 00:55:23.349 to say it, just go out and reach out to people. 00:55:23.960 --> 00:55:26.639 Like I'm not saying you bother the same people 00:55:26.639 --> 00:55:29.239 all the time and you don't message the same people 00:55:29.239 --> 00:55:33.280 time after time after time. But what you do do 00:55:33.280 --> 00:55:36.820 is you message people. You build connections. 00:55:37.400 --> 00:55:40.579 You build a connection. You make contact with 00:55:40.579 --> 00:55:44.099 people. You make contact. You make plans. You 00:55:44.099 --> 00:55:46.320 maybe make reoccurring plans. It doesn't have 00:55:46.320 --> 00:55:49.920 to be a reoccurring plan, but it can be. Like 00:55:49.920 --> 00:55:55.519 I'll be honest with you. I keep myself busy because 00:55:55.519 --> 00:55:59.039 I struggle with loneliness, but I'm, at the moment, 00:55:59.179 --> 00:56:06.179 I'm not alone at all. Like, I go to clubs and 00:56:06.179 --> 00:56:09.500 play X -Wing miniatures. Doesn't mean I'm always 00:56:09.500 --> 00:56:12.159 going to get on with my opponent. I definitely 00:56:12.159 --> 00:56:17.219 don't always win. Like, I lose a lot. And I don't 00:56:17.219 --> 00:56:19.079 always get it right. Like, sometimes, you know, 00:56:19.099 --> 00:56:21.590 I'll try a bit of banter or... something with 00:56:21.590 --> 00:56:24.030 my opponent and they just either won't get it 00:56:24.030 --> 00:56:29.869 or I'm getting it wrong. But I keep on trying. 00:56:30.230 --> 00:56:33.829 Like, I by no means get on with everyone at my 00:56:33.829 --> 00:56:39.210 church. But you keep on trying. You keep on finding 00:56:39.210 --> 00:56:43.230 that common ground. You keep on trying to... 00:56:43.960 --> 00:56:46.840 to talk to people and, and be genuine. I guess 00:56:46.840 --> 00:56:48.780 I'd be honest with you. I'm a bit too much in 00:56:48.780 --> 00:56:51.860 a rush nowadays. So maybe I'm, I am getting that 00:56:51.860 --> 00:56:56.260 wrong recently, but it also means that the other 00:56:56.260 --> 00:57:02.099 aside to that is that it's okay. If you just 00:57:02.099 --> 00:57:06.119 don't get on with people, that's fine too. It 00:57:06.119 --> 00:57:08.320 doesn't mean that person's a horrible person. 00:57:09.239 --> 00:57:12.289 You just don't get on with them. And you can 00:57:12.289 --> 00:57:17.769 try your damnedest to find similarities and likes 00:57:17.769 --> 00:57:21.789 and dislikes, but sometimes that person is just 00:57:21.789 --> 00:57:26.489 not your person. That's fine. Respect them. Let 00:57:26.489 --> 00:57:29.510 them go their own way. Don't put yourself under 00:57:29.510 --> 00:57:33.289 an immense unnecessary pressure to try and change 00:57:33.289 --> 00:57:37.769 yourself to fit with what they want. You don't 00:57:37.769 --> 00:57:39.630 have to be friends with everyone. You don't have 00:57:39.630 --> 00:57:42.800 to be connected to everyone. It's important that 00:57:42.800 --> 00:57:46.420 you have meaningful connections. And in order 00:57:46.420 --> 00:57:49.599 to have meaningful connections, it has to be 00:57:49.599 --> 00:57:52.780 connected with that person in a way that makes 00:57:52.780 --> 00:57:57.099 sense to you and has resonance with you. You 00:57:57.099 --> 00:58:01.420 all right? Would you agree? Yeah, I agree with 00:58:01.420 --> 00:58:04.559 that. And it's important as well, like, let's 00:58:04.559 --> 00:58:06.840 all just take a step back from social media for 00:58:06.840 --> 00:58:10.119 a start, right? I'm not saying to everybody, 00:58:10.239 --> 00:58:13.739 like, stop. with social media, right? It's such 00:58:13.739 --> 00:58:22.920 a big tool in society that to try and stop it 00:58:22.920 --> 00:58:28.239 would be ridiculous. But let's not have such 00:58:28.239 --> 00:58:33.699 an incredible dependence on it, right? Limit 00:58:33.699 --> 00:58:40.300 your intake. And another thing, problem solved. 00:58:41.019 --> 00:58:42.780 Without getting your phone out of your pocket. 00:58:45.679 --> 00:58:51.079 Just try once a week to fix a problem without 00:58:51.079 --> 00:58:59.480 Googling it. Use your creativity. Get that sense 00:58:59.480 --> 00:59:03.059 of fulfillment from resolving a problem on your 00:59:03.059 --> 00:59:07.940 own. And give yourself that sense of purpose. 00:59:08.320 --> 00:59:14.230 That sense of. experience and fulfillment back. 00:59:15.789 --> 00:59:18.210 Because you can fix problems all day long by 00:59:18.210 --> 00:59:23.110 Googling it. But you didn't fix that. Someone 00:59:23.110 --> 00:59:27.389 over in Montauk did. And they shared it online 00:59:27.389 --> 00:59:30.409 and you read it and did the same thing as them. 00:59:31.630 --> 00:59:42.210 You didn't find your way. It feels hollow. Ultimately, 00:59:42.210 --> 00:59:47.789 these changes start small. Don't revolutionize 00:59:47.789 --> 00:59:53.829 your life overnight because you will get sick. 00:59:56.210 --> 01:00:02.289 We are all addicted to this lifestyle to some 01:00:02.289 --> 01:00:07.630 degree, some a lot more than others. And as with 01:00:07.630 --> 01:00:12.250 all addictions, Giving them up will make you 01:00:12.250 --> 01:00:18.650 feel worse for a while. But I wholeheartedly 01:00:18.650 --> 01:00:25.769 believe that withdrawing from my phone is going 01:00:25.769 --> 01:00:33.409 to make me better over time. Disconnecting from 01:00:33.409 --> 01:00:37.269 everybody is going to make the relationships 01:00:37.269 --> 01:00:43.500 that I have more fulfilling, more valuable, and 01:00:43.500 --> 01:00:53.619 make me feel less lonely and less isolated. Yeah. 01:00:54.539 --> 01:01:07.380 Yeah. Completely agree. How did you, like... 01:01:07.420 --> 01:01:10.800 Obviously, I don't want to go too personal here, 01:01:10.920 --> 01:01:14.539 but you said that you were quite a lonely person. 01:01:15.800 --> 01:01:22.059 Well, growing up, I had anxiety. My autism was 01:01:22.059 --> 01:01:27.420 undiagnosed, so I just felt like something was 01:01:27.420 --> 01:01:30.360 wrong with me. I didn't understand people. I 01:01:30.360 --> 01:01:35.480 wanted approval and connection, but I just didn't 01:01:35.480 --> 01:01:40.019 get it. at all just just plain old didn't get 01:01:40.019 --> 01:01:46.019 it you know um yeah i'm trying to think of the 01:01:46.019 --> 01:01:52.199 right way of putting it but um there there isn't 01:01:52.199 --> 01:01:54.940 another way to put it i just didn't get it didn't 01:01:54.940 --> 01:02:01.219 really understand um didn't kind of get the teenagers 01:02:01.219 --> 01:02:03.760 act the way they do because everybody's scared 01:02:05.070 --> 01:02:12.349 And how did you learn that? Well, it's just slowly 01:02:12.349 --> 01:02:15.409 you learn it over time and you see it in media 01:02:15.409 --> 01:02:19.090 and you see it when you're older and you're watching 01:02:19.090 --> 01:02:21.409 the younger generation interact with each other 01:02:21.409 --> 01:02:25.750 and seeing how everybody's just kind of clambering 01:02:25.750 --> 01:02:30.389 over each other for approval, for status, to 01:02:30.389 --> 01:02:35.460 be the person. who says the sarcastic thing and 01:02:35.460 --> 01:02:39.420 then walks away you do that thing right like 01:02:39.420 --> 01:02:42.599 you ever do that thing where you like you get 01:02:42.599 --> 01:02:46.780 angry at the way that people behave right and 01:02:46.780 --> 01:02:50.639 then one day you catch yourself doing it and 01:02:50.639 --> 01:02:52.760 you're like oh absolutely i've done three years 01:02:52.760 --> 01:02:56.320 three days three days is normally the time that 01:02:56.320 --> 01:03:05.119 it will take me that I've kind of condemned someone 01:03:05.119 --> 01:03:09.860 else for doing in my mind. Sorry, it's not a 01:03:09.860 --> 01:03:12.860 good thing to admit, but it is a thing. The reason 01:03:12.860 --> 01:03:14.599 I brought it up is because I've done it too, 01:03:14.739 --> 01:03:17.500 right? And what I'm saying is it's completely 01:03:17.500 --> 01:03:21.619 normal, right? It's completely normal to have 01:03:21.619 --> 01:03:23.760 this sense of, I don't like that about that. 01:03:23.840 --> 01:03:26.920 I don't like that person doing that thing. And 01:03:26.920 --> 01:03:32.039 actually, you do it yourself, mate. So stop looking. 01:03:32.679 --> 01:03:39.619 out there and look in here stop getting angry 01:03:39.619 --> 01:03:42.280 at like i thought about it in a way today right 01:03:42.280 --> 01:03:48.280 um i went across the road and a car just turned 01:03:48.280 --> 01:03:54.320 right and i had that initial anger spat at the 01:03:54.320 --> 01:04:00.480 car for just turning yeah and then i went What 01:04:00.480 --> 01:04:03.159 control have I got over what they're doing? Why 01:04:03.159 --> 01:04:07.980 am I getting angry that they turned? I should 01:04:07.980 --> 01:04:16.179 be happy that I realized. Why can I not do that? 01:04:18.199 --> 01:04:22.139 If somebody doesn't move out your way, move out 01:04:22.139 --> 01:04:30.900 theirs. It's not impossible. It's not about them. 01:04:31.480 --> 01:04:34.300 Sometimes the change has to come from you for 01:04:34.300 --> 01:04:36.960 you to be happy. The world isn't going to change. 01:04:38.300 --> 01:04:42.659 The only person who can change for you is you. 01:04:44.019 --> 01:04:48.000 And as difficult as it can be, accepting that 01:04:48.000 --> 01:04:52.500 and embracing that probably will make you a happier 01:04:52.500 --> 01:05:01.510 person. You know? Thank you very much for taking 01:05:01.510 --> 01:05:06.849 the time to discuss this serious subject, a bit 01:05:06.849 --> 01:05:09.929 more of a deep subject than, I mean, this is 01:05:09.929 --> 01:05:12.789 coming from the two of us where we've discussed 01:05:12.789 --> 01:05:15.510 Israel and Palestine and things like that, right? 01:05:16.670 --> 01:05:19.489 But I do genuinely feel like this was a bit of 01:05:19.489 --> 01:05:23.369 a deeper subject and I really appreciate it. 01:05:23.409 --> 01:05:25.369 Definitely more of an emotional one, for sure. 01:05:25.840 --> 01:05:33.000 I really appreciate you sharing and taking part 01:05:33.000 --> 01:05:41.480 in this conversation with us. If that was to 01:05:41.480 --> 01:05:44.440 me and not to our listeners, then you're very 01:05:44.440 --> 01:05:51.360 welcome. I do struggle with, yeah, sometimes 01:05:51.360 --> 01:05:56.099 get it wrong. Absolutely. And remember, everybody, 01:05:56.320 --> 01:06:00.099 and this is to the listeners, it's okay to get 01:06:00.099 --> 01:06:04.900 it wrong. Absolutely fine to get it wrong. Be 01:06:04.900 --> 01:06:08.000 kind to yourselves, guys. I'm going to wrap it 01:06:08.000 --> 01:06:10.639 up there. Thank you all so much for listening 01:06:10.639 --> 01:06:14.880 today. Thanks, James, for taking part. It's a 01:06:14.880 --> 01:06:17.880 goodbye from me. And a goodbye from me as well.