WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.240 Hi, Nick here from Pods with Nick and James. 00:00:02.419 --> 00:00:04.559 Just a quick one before we get into this podcast. 00:00:04.960 --> 00:00:08.279 I want to say a massive thank you for the support 00:00:08.279 --> 00:00:11.140 that we've received since starting these podcasts. 00:00:11.820 --> 00:00:14.580 We thoroughly enjoy it and we look forward to 00:00:14.580 --> 00:00:17.899 creating more. If you want to have your say on 00:00:17.899 --> 00:00:22.219 any topics that we've discussed or suggest future 00:00:22.219 --> 00:00:26.559 topics, then you can do so at www .reddit .com. 00:00:26.879 --> 00:00:30.820 slash r slash nick and james pods and if you 00:00:30.820 --> 00:00:33.439 want to support us you can do so for from as 00:00:33.439 --> 00:00:36.039 little as one pound a month and you can do that 00:00:36.039 --> 00:00:39.460 at www .patreon .com slash pods with nick and 00:00:39.460 --> 00:01:13.359 james anyway back to the podcast Hi, welcome 00:01:13.359 --> 00:01:15.519 to Pods with Nick and James. It's been a little 00:01:15.519 --> 00:01:18.439 while since we've recorded, but yeah, welcome 00:01:18.439 --> 00:01:23.280 back listeners. I'm James. Joining me tonight 00:01:23.280 --> 00:01:28.599 is, as always, is Nick. Hi guys. And today I 00:01:28.599 --> 00:01:33.480 got the choice of the subject and rather than 00:01:33.480 --> 00:01:37.359 keep it light and airy, unfortunately, I just 00:01:37.359 --> 00:01:40.319 felt the need to touch upon another area of ignorance 00:01:40.319 --> 00:01:46.230 as I'd learnt. recently that President Nicolas 00:01:46.230 --> 00:01:53.469 Maduro of Venezuela had been, well, kidnapped, 00:01:53.689 --> 00:02:00.209 essentially, by an American strike force. And 00:02:00.209 --> 00:02:05.430 although I wasn't surprised in the outrageousness 00:02:05.430 --> 00:02:10.520 of it, we all know that America has... a somewhat 00:02:10.520 --> 00:02:12.879 shady history when it comes to respecting other 00:02:12.879 --> 00:02:17.639 countries borders um not that i hate america 00:02:17.639 --> 00:02:21.000 but it's just they don't play by the rules that 00:02:21.000 --> 00:02:23.919 other that they insist that others play by um 00:02:23.919 --> 00:02:30.039 i was i was wondering why like i'd heard some 00:02:30.039 --> 00:02:33.080 of my friends say about how unjustified it is 00:02:33.080 --> 00:02:38.199 and on the surface of it uh i thought that that 00:02:38.199 --> 00:02:42.770 might be true but events don't happen without 00:02:42.770 --> 00:02:46.030 a cause. So I wanted to take a little look into 00:02:46.030 --> 00:02:49.909 things. So today's episode will be about, will 00:02:49.909 --> 00:02:57.810 be a very brief history of Venezuela. Nick, just 00:02:57.810 --> 00:03:01.550 to kick us off, although I'm really worried it's 00:03:01.550 --> 00:03:03.909 going to turn out you've done way more research. 00:03:03.909 --> 00:03:07.889 Oh, I need to mention my sources. Today's episode. 00:03:09.680 --> 00:03:14.719 Most of the information is taken from The History 00:03:14.719 --> 00:03:17.900 of Venezuela, a fascinating guide to Venezuelan 00:03:17.900 --> 00:03:24.439 history by David Robbins, narrated by Stephen 00:03:24.439 --> 00:03:29.419 Barnett on Audible. It's also based, some of 00:03:29.419 --> 00:03:31.960 the information and views are informed by the 00:03:31.960 --> 00:03:38.780 podcast Trigonometry, specifically the... The 00:03:38.780 --> 00:03:41.780 episode, Why Socialism Never Works, a warning 00:03:41.780 --> 00:03:45.379 from Venezuela. And then additionally, the episode 00:03:45.379 --> 00:03:52.219 a couple of weeks into the new year where they 00:03:52.219 --> 00:03:57.219 talk about Maduro being taken directly. The reason 00:03:57.219 --> 00:04:01.479 why I use these as a source is one of them is 00:04:01.479 --> 00:04:03.280 a credible book. In the Trigonometry podcast, 00:04:03.580 --> 00:04:11.560 one of the presenters, is Venezuelan. And when 00:04:11.560 --> 00:04:15.939 they talked about socialism, they were speaking 00:04:15.939 --> 00:04:22.560 to a Venezuelan national who has fled the country. 00:04:23.899 --> 00:04:26.379 Just out of interest, Nick, can you, off the 00:04:26.379 --> 00:04:28.439 top of your head, I know you may have done a 00:04:28.439 --> 00:04:33.959 bit of research here. How many... How many... 00:04:34.509 --> 00:04:37.970 born Venezuelans are currently living outside 00:04:37.970 --> 00:04:42.550 of the country. I know they had, I don't know 00:04:42.550 --> 00:04:45.670 the numbers, but I know they had huge levels 00:04:45.670 --> 00:04:52.209 of migration out of Venezuela. Yep. So I don't 00:04:52.209 --> 00:04:54.949 know the numbers, but I know there's a huge number 00:04:54.949 --> 00:04:57.910 of Venezuelans that left the country. That's 00:04:57.910 --> 00:05:01.790 absolutely right. Based on that news, would... 00:05:02.009 --> 00:05:03.949 are you willing to pick a figure or shall i just 00:05:03.949 --> 00:05:06.990 tell you i mean i wouldn't want to hazard a guess 00:05:06.990 --> 00:05:09.149 on the figure not knowing the base population 00:05:09.149 --> 00:05:12.329 of venezuela that's fair enough okay so there's 00:05:12.329 --> 00:05:15.949 currently nine million venezuelans living outside 00:05:15.949 --> 00:05:19.189 of venezuela and a huge number of those have 00:05:19.189 --> 00:05:21.670 literally as you've said migrated in the last 00:05:21.670 --> 00:05:27.949 couple of years um this is due to mostly due 00:05:27.949 --> 00:05:36.920 to uh Medoro's and before him Chavez's I would 00:05:36.920 --> 00:05:41.439 say tyrannical rule the more you look into it 00:05:41.439 --> 00:05:45.819 like we to be fair I think we've both been somewhat 00:05:45.819 --> 00:05:50.540 spoiled in this country through although there 00:05:50.540 --> 00:05:55.019 is censorship in this country but it's not on 00:05:55.019 --> 00:05:59.860 the same level as anything like we can say what 00:05:59.860 --> 00:06:04.180 we will and we might get or we might get a... 00:06:04.180 --> 00:06:08.379 We might be arrested. If we were talking on a 00:06:08.379 --> 00:06:13.199 scale of Australia to Korea, where would you 00:06:13.199 --> 00:06:19.120 put them? Oh. Because you didn't say anything 00:06:19.120 --> 00:06:20.819 you wanted in Australia. You helped me completely. 00:06:21.100 --> 00:06:25.319 Yeah, yeah, yeah. To the point where they mock 00:06:25.319 --> 00:06:34.479 other countries. Yeah, absolutely. Like... literally, 00:06:34.479 --> 00:06:37.420 actually, how easy is it for you to edit things 00:06:37.420 --> 00:06:40.500 out of this? Yeah, pretty well. I can look at 00:06:40.500 --> 00:06:42.399 timestamps. Okay. So like, all right. So like 00:06:42.399 --> 00:06:45.420 literally the, yeah, the song you can't say in 00:06:45.420 --> 00:06:49.339 Canada. Yeah, absolutely. It just literally says 00:06:49.339 --> 00:06:52.220 it all. The fact that you, like they're literally 00:06:52.220 --> 00:06:54.879 going to mock saying that, that you can't say 00:06:54.879 --> 00:06:58.540 that during a music venue. Yeah. All right. Kevin 00:06:58.540 --> 00:07:01.600 Wilson. That's it. That's exactly it. It literally 00:07:01.600 --> 00:07:07.240 says it all right. But yeah. So between the scale 00:07:07.240 --> 00:07:08.959 from Australia to Korea, where would you put 00:07:08.959 --> 00:07:12.600 them? I'll put them right next to Korea. Yeah. 00:07:12.660 --> 00:07:16.100 Like maybe, maybe, maybe one level up simply 00:07:16.100 --> 00:07:20.779 because I don't know. I'm assuming you're talking 00:07:20.779 --> 00:07:23.279 about North Korea. Yeah. Like, like just to, 00:07:23.279 --> 00:07:26.560 just to be clear, like South Korea, no data goes 00:07:26.560 --> 00:07:28.420 out, no data comes in, you know, that kind of 00:07:28.420 --> 00:07:32.959 place. Yeah, okay, they've got some data coming 00:07:32.959 --> 00:07:38.540 out, but not a lot. Yeah, they've got some problem 00:07:38.540 --> 00:07:42.060 with, yeah, they've got, right, anyway, sorry, 00:07:42.180 --> 00:07:45.920 I'll tell you what, we'll just do it. The reason 00:07:45.920 --> 00:07:49.500 why the Americans have taken Maduro, they're 00:07:49.500 --> 00:07:52.620 saying that it's a regime change and that by 00:07:52.620 --> 00:07:55.850 doing it, they're saving. millions of pounds, 00:07:55.930 --> 00:07:58.889 thousands of lives by not going to war. I don't 00:07:58.889 --> 00:08:01.509 think they ever were going to go to war, even 00:08:01.509 --> 00:08:07.769 though Venezuela is on the south side of the 00:08:07.769 --> 00:08:12.050 Caribbean basin and is not a huge distance away 00:08:12.050 --> 00:08:18.649 from America. It is going to mostly be about 00:08:18.649 --> 00:08:22.920 the oil, but there are a number of... good reasons 00:08:22.920 --> 00:08:27.220 why uh they have stepped stepped in um but we're 00:08:27.220 --> 00:08:31.660 gonna go as as with palestine and israel um there 00:08:31.660 --> 00:08:33.639 is always kind of a cause and there is always 00:08:33.639 --> 00:08:35.659 a history to play so we're just gonna go back 00:08:35.659 --> 00:08:40.419 um through some of that and then i'll have a 00:08:40.419 --> 00:08:42.419 well i'll ask you some questions at the end nick 00:08:42.419 --> 00:08:45.440 and we'll see see how how much of this has gone 00:08:45.440 --> 00:08:50.379 in um right venezuela was first discovered quote 00:08:50.379 --> 00:08:58.340 unquote by Christopher Columbus in 1498. It was 00:08:58.340 --> 00:09:04.360 very quickly turned into a Spanish colony in 00:09:04.360 --> 00:09:09.279 the 1500s. However, the land that is Venezuela 00:09:09.279 --> 00:09:13.019 was actually ruled as five separate provinces 00:09:13.019 --> 00:09:17.639 named after the five major cities in Venezuela, 00:09:17.799 --> 00:09:22.220 the largest of which being Caracas. At the time, 00:09:22.279 --> 00:09:25.539 cocoa was the main export, but they also exported 00:09:25.539 --> 00:09:28.639 leather and a number of other goods, which actually 00:09:28.639 --> 00:09:33.799 meant that they were mostly ignored by their 00:09:33.799 --> 00:09:39.620 Spanish overlords as they weren't pulling out 00:09:39.620 --> 00:09:43.039 loads of silver out the ground or gold out the 00:09:43.039 --> 00:09:47.620 ground. So the Spanish kind of focused more on 00:09:47.620 --> 00:09:52.590 their other colonies. The cocoa trade went through 00:09:52.590 --> 00:09:55.590 Caracas, which literally increased the wealth 00:09:55.590 --> 00:09:58.169 of that city, growing it. It is now the modern 00:09:58.169 --> 00:10:04.429 -day capital. And as with, unfortunately, with 00:10:04.429 --> 00:10:11.330 the cocoa trade in other countries, guess who 00:10:11.330 --> 00:10:21.600 they got to do the planting? Go on. Well, unfortunately, 00:10:21.840 --> 00:10:25.620 it's a repeat. The thing that was happening in 00:10:25.620 --> 00:10:33.659 North America under the English government happened 00:10:33.659 --> 00:10:37.600 in South America through the Spanish government. 00:10:39.019 --> 00:10:43.320 What is often referred to in history as the triangular 00:10:43.320 --> 00:10:49.370 trade of slaves from Africa being moved in. Not 00:10:49.370 --> 00:10:52.330 even indigenous people, although there were two 00:10:52.330 --> 00:10:55.730 major people groups in the area of Venezuela. 00:10:56.649 --> 00:11:01.350 Weirdly enough, one of the people groups is derived 00:11:01.350 --> 00:11:05.929 from where we get the name cannibal. And they 00:11:05.929 --> 00:11:09.929 were the ones which were able to overtake the 00:11:09.929 --> 00:11:16.289 slightly more peaceful tribe. Annoyingly, yeah, 00:11:16.330 --> 00:11:21.860 the slave trade was big. and slaves were used 00:11:21.860 --> 00:11:28.500 to plant the cocoa until the price of coffee 00:11:28.500 --> 00:11:32.820 started to rise, at which point cocoa slowly, 00:11:33.240 --> 00:11:37.899 well, the trade slowly turned from cocoa to coffee. 00:11:39.879 --> 00:11:46.240 Venezuela first tried to claim independence, 00:11:46.379 --> 00:11:51.639 or at least One of the provinces which now makes 00:11:51.639 --> 00:11:53.440 up Venezuela first tried to claim independence 00:11:53.440 --> 00:12:02.919 in 1798. However, it wasn't for 21 years that 00:12:02.919 --> 00:12:08.779 the area didn't claim its independence entirely 00:12:08.779 --> 00:12:12.460 from the Spanish crown. During this time, there 00:12:12.460 --> 00:12:18.090 was a great amount of turmoil. Any history buffs 00:12:18.090 --> 00:12:21.809 will know this is very shortly after the American 00:12:21.809 --> 00:12:25.330 Revolution. And a number of people who battled 00:12:25.330 --> 00:12:33.230 the Spanish for Venezuelan independence had rubbed 00:12:33.230 --> 00:12:35.350 shoulders with people like Alexander Hamilton 00:12:35.350 --> 00:12:44.149 and George Washington. Weirdly enough, so one 00:12:44.149 --> 00:12:48.600 of the major... battles right before the last 00:12:48.600 --> 00:12:51.860 battle that pushed the Spanish out. One of the 00:12:51.860 --> 00:12:54.240 generals was so desperate to push the Spanish 00:12:54.240 --> 00:12:57.740 out that he actually got his army to cross the 00:12:57.740 --> 00:13:06.000 Andes in 18... 1819. And he lost half of his 00:13:06.000 --> 00:13:12.440 army doing that, yet still was able to beat the 00:13:12.440 --> 00:13:17.279 Spanish at the Battle of Bogota. on the 10th 00:13:17.279 --> 00:13:19.940 of August. Weirdly enough, it wasn't originally 00:13:19.940 --> 00:13:22.559 called Venezuela. It was part of the Republic 00:13:22.559 --> 00:13:28.700 of Grand Colombia, which lasted for 10 years 00:13:28.700 --> 00:13:32.379 but quickly fell through. The first 60 years 00:13:32.379 --> 00:13:41.799 after the Republic of Colombia had... After the 00:13:41.799 --> 00:13:44.909 first 10 years of... The Republic of Colombia, 00:13:45.029 --> 00:13:51.210 it fell through and you had 60 years of corrupt 00:13:51.210 --> 00:13:53.389 dictator after corrupt dictator after corrupt 00:13:53.389 --> 00:13:58.149 dictator with absolute power, with the name president 00:13:58.149 --> 00:14:03.110 as their title, but their powers very much more 00:14:03.110 --> 00:14:07.470 absolute. Authoritarian. Yeah, this was weirdly 00:14:07.470 --> 00:14:12.429 enough known as the strongman period in Venezuelan. 00:14:13.159 --> 00:14:19.519 um history yeah so chavez actually tried to when 00:14:19.519 --> 00:14:23.860 he got in didn't he try to um fix that like he 00:14:23.860 --> 00:14:29.679 was from what i've read he was quite pro um the 00:14:29.679 --> 00:14:31.779 poor person trying to make their lives better 00:14:31.779 --> 00:14:37.419 he was originally he he really was originally 00:14:37.419 --> 00:14:43.269 like um chavez um was voted in democratically, 00:14:43.429 --> 00:14:47.029 was a political activist before he was voted 00:14:47.029 --> 00:14:53.629 in to power, had protested previous governments 00:14:53.629 --> 00:15:00.370 for their brutality and came in with a large 00:15:00.370 --> 00:15:10.480 leftist ideology which resonated with uh a lot 00:15:10.480 --> 00:15:15.559 of the venezuelan people um nationalization social 00:15:15.559 --> 00:15:19.860 wealth welfare yeah that's it he also wanted 00:15:19.860 --> 00:15:22.799 to rewrite the constitution didn't he he did 00:15:22.799 --> 00:15:25.899 he did um with the this constitution that was 00:15:25.899 --> 00:15:29.779 written in 1830 yeah i was originally ratified 00:15:29.779 --> 00:15:35.740 um yeah Sorry, I interrupted your history lesson. 00:15:35.820 --> 00:15:37.519 No, no, no, no, no, no, no. But you're absolutely 00:15:37.519 --> 00:15:39.840 right. Like a lot of this stuff. So weirdly enough, 00:15:39.960 --> 00:15:48.440 socialism is there in Venezuela, but it doesn't 00:15:48.440 --> 00:15:51.580 really, really, really kind of show its head 00:15:51.580 --> 00:15:56.539 until like after the Second World War. Yeah. 00:15:57.240 --> 00:16:01.320 Before then, there's a lot of... There's a lot 00:16:01.320 --> 00:16:03.639 of corruption and there's a lot of kind of a 00:16:03.639 --> 00:16:11.659 divide between rich and poor. But that's... Yeah, 00:16:11.879 --> 00:16:15.220 like, that's it. It's the people who have land 00:16:15.220 --> 00:16:21.559 who can, like, farm cocoa or coffee. And then 00:16:21.559 --> 00:16:28.639 later, after 1914, oil is found near Lake... 00:16:31.389 --> 00:16:36.230 Maracaibo? Yeah. Okay, but annoyingly, they'd 00:16:36.230 --> 00:16:39.149 switched almost all of their produce over from 00:16:39.149 --> 00:16:44.590 cocoa to coffee in 1840, just in time for the 00:16:44.590 --> 00:16:49.590 price of coffee to crash, throwing their economy 00:16:49.590 --> 00:16:57.750 into turmoil. In 1870, a man called Goose Blanco 00:17:07.390 --> 00:17:11.049 rewrote the constitution so the constitution 00:17:11.049 --> 00:17:14.670 was originally written and then like 40 years 00:17:14.670 --> 00:17:19.369 later one of their dictators rewrites it a lot 00:17:19.369 --> 00:17:25.329 of people each of the I'll be honest with you 00:17:25.329 --> 00:17:26.950 I'm not going to go through all the names of 00:17:26.950 --> 00:17:30.539 all the different dictators like there are There's 00:17:30.539 --> 00:17:35.380 a huge varied history here. And what I will say 00:17:35.380 --> 00:17:40.940 is, none of them are perfect, but there are varying 00:17:40.940 --> 00:17:44.720 degrees of grey here. Like, some of them did 00:17:44.720 --> 00:17:51.119 genuinely put money into the infrastructure of 00:17:51.119 --> 00:17:55.759 Venezuela. Some people allowed... Control of 00:17:55.759 --> 00:18:00.400 the press seems to be a huge... reoccurring theme 00:18:00.400 --> 00:18:06.720 in Venezuela. Like a number of them, like what 00:18:06.720 --> 00:18:09.380 did surprise me is just how much power the Catholic 00:18:09.380 --> 00:18:13.420 Church had over Venezuela during its original 00:18:13.420 --> 00:18:17.619 formation. And although this ends in the mid 00:18:17.619 --> 00:18:21.759 1800s, I think, it was surprising to learn that. 00:18:21.799 --> 00:18:24.000 It was also surprising. It's not really surprising 00:18:24.000 --> 00:18:28.059 when you think of the nation that colonized. 00:18:28.059 --> 00:18:30.920 Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, you are absolutely 00:18:30.920 --> 00:18:34.740 right. I just I forget how much power that particular 00:18:34.740 --> 00:18:40.279 institution had. Basically, it took one of the 00:18:40.279 --> 00:18:42.440 dictators who wasn't kind of completely down 00:18:42.440 --> 00:18:45.480 with it to kind of cut off all state funding 00:18:45.480 --> 00:18:48.680 to the Catholic Church. Weirdly enough, to this 00:18:48.680 --> 00:18:57.480 day, over 90 % of Venezuelans claim to be Roman 00:18:57.480 --> 00:19:02.240 Catholic. Which, again, is somewhat of a surprise, 00:19:02.319 --> 00:19:08.059 but still. Moving forwards, in 1914, oil was 00:19:08.059 --> 00:19:11.880 found and their economy skyrocketed. Cutland 00:19:11.880 --> 00:19:14.799 drops, yeah, cutland drops. Yeah, no, you're 00:19:14.799 --> 00:19:20.240 absolutely right. In 14 years, from 1914, from 00:19:20.240 --> 00:19:23.819 when it was first found, it takes them only 14 00:19:23.819 --> 00:19:26.900 years to become the largest oil exporter in the 00:19:26.900 --> 00:19:29.529 world. They've got the largest supply of oil 00:19:29.529 --> 00:19:34.029 in the world. Yeah, you beat me to it. Absolutely 00:19:34.029 --> 00:19:39.210 true. I tell you what, you know what? There is 00:19:39.210 --> 00:19:42.970 some oil in China, but how much of China's oil 00:19:42.970 --> 00:19:46.769 comes from Venezuela, do you think? Let's go 00:19:46.769 --> 00:19:53.369 40%. Okay, okay. It's only 4%, but considering 00:19:53.369 --> 00:19:58.359 how much oil China uses? Like, that's still a 00:19:58.359 --> 00:20:02.880 huge... It's significant, yeah. Yeah. Okay. In 00:20:02.880 --> 00:20:07.359 the 1950s, after loads and loads and loads of 00:20:07.359 --> 00:20:14.619 corrupt presidents, political parties start to 00:20:14.619 --> 00:20:20.140 actually take to the scene. And during the 1950s, 00:20:20.140 --> 00:20:26.720 you start getting the Christian socialists. and 00:20:26.720 --> 00:20:30.720 the social action parties and the democratic 00:20:30.720 --> 00:20:39.779 parties who all kind of vie for power. It's interesting 00:20:39.779 --> 00:20:44.380 that each of the parties comes into power with 00:20:44.380 --> 00:20:50.759 always these pure ideals and then comes in with 00:20:50.759 --> 00:20:56.579 their pure ideals, gives everybody... uh the 00:20:56.579 --> 00:21:03.019 freedom to um gather or to um what's the word 00:21:03.019 --> 00:21:06.519 to protest or gives people civil civil liberties 00:21:06.519 --> 00:21:11.720 until the people start a couple of years down 00:21:11.720 --> 00:21:14.500 the line point out that they haven't been able 00:21:14.500 --> 00:21:16.920 to change things the way that they originally 00:21:16.920 --> 00:21:20.839 said they would yeah at which point every single 00:21:20.839 --> 00:21:23.039 time it's immediately oh we're going to give 00:21:23.039 --> 00:21:26.029 you this civil civil liberty And then they take 00:21:26.029 --> 00:21:29.710 it back. And just every single time it seems 00:21:29.710 --> 00:21:35.789 to be person starts with a good ideal. Power 00:21:35.789 --> 00:21:39.730 slowly starts to corrupt them. They start to 00:21:39.730 --> 00:21:43.529 oppress the people that they've saved. New people 00:21:43.529 --> 00:21:46.789 rise up to fight against them. The regime gets 00:21:46.789 --> 00:21:50.690 harder and harder and gets harder to the point 00:21:50.690 --> 00:21:53.289 where all the people then fight against them. 00:21:53.900 --> 00:21:58.220 new person put in place and then the entire cycle 00:21:58.220 --> 00:22:02.140 cycle exactly and it's just like it's unfortunate 00:22:02.140 --> 00:22:08.140 that the revolutions going round and round kind 00:22:08.140 --> 00:22:11.460 of like gimmick it seems to very much be played 00:22:11.460 --> 00:22:20.019 out through Venezuelan history in a lot of their 00:22:20.019 --> 00:22:26.180 interestingly the Venezuelan government around 00:22:26.180 --> 00:22:30.799 in the late 1900s, I can't remember which decade, 00:22:31.099 --> 00:22:38.920 started taking half of the profits from the sale 00:22:38.920 --> 00:22:45.140 of their oil. So although Venezuela was at one 00:22:45.140 --> 00:22:54.549 point the fourth richest GDPR, in the world it's 00:22:54.549 --> 00:22:59.910 never as rich as it should be and every like 00:22:59.910 --> 00:23:04.609 all i can say is it seems like the stealing the 00:23:04.609 --> 00:23:09.670 money seems to be part of the norm with the regime 00:23:09.670 --> 00:23:12.829 in venezuela throughout history just like it's 00:23:12.829 --> 00:23:15.890 really sad man look yeah like i said before we 00:23:15.890 --> 00:23:19.680 started the call like they should Like, given 00:23:19.680 --> 00:23:22.259 their resources, they absolutely should be one 00:23:22.259 --> 00:23:25.240 of the wealthiest countries in the world. Absolutely. 00:23:25.920 --> 00:23:30.940 Like, Dubai does not have as much oil as them, 00:23:31.000 --> 00:23:36.299 and yet Dubai, you look at the cities, like, 00:23:36.359 --> 00:23:39.079 they literally, they're making fake islands. 00:23:39.420 --> 00:23:47.089 It's just better run. There's better collaboration, 00:23:47.089 --> 00:23:51.730 I suppose, out there. They do work towards making 00:23:51.730 --> 00:23:54.190 their country the greatest it could be instead 00:23:54.190 --> 00:24:00.569 of profiting themselves. But that also comes 00:24:00.569 --> 00:24:05.250 down to a little bit of strategic manipulation 00:24:05.250 --> 00:24:09.690 from the rest of the world, right? Oh, absolutely. 00:24:09.829 --> 00:24:17.880 Like something that... Okay, so us British, as 00:24:17.880 --> 00:24:21.519 always, don't have our hands entirely clean on 00:24:21.519 --> 00:24:27.440 this. We did buy stuff from them, but I imagine 00:24:27.440 --> 00:24:29.799 we probably did sell them slaves. I haven't researched 00:24:29.799 --> 00:24:34.640 that point, but it's just like, you know, we 00:24:34.640 --> 00:24:39.059 kind of carved up, I think, a little bit more 00:24:39.059 --> 00:24:42.420 of Africa than a lot of other European nations. 00:24:43.329 --> 00:24:46.549 to say the least. And it wouldn't surprise me 00:24:46.549 --> 00:24:50.390 if they got some of the slaves from us. The British 00:24:50.390 --> 00:24:58.869 colony Guyana has had numerous trade disputes, 00:24:59.150 --> 00:25:05.769 but also border disputes. And whenever Venezuela 00:25:05.769 --> 00:25:11.579 has often gone to the international stage, and 00:25:11.579 --> 00:25:14.160 asked other countries to intervene and spoken 00:25:14.160 --> 00:25:18.160 with other countries the solutions that have 00:25:18.160 --> 00:25:24.019 been mediated have always been in our favor like 00:25:24.019 --> 00:25:26.599 massively like the the Venezuelans have been 00:25:26.599 --> 00:25:29.019 have been messed up time and time and time again 00:25:29.019 --> 00:25:35.660 Venezuela has kept the governments in Cuba afloat 00:25:35.660 --> 00:25:38.960 by giving them oil time and time and time again 00:25:38.960 --> 00:25:45.839 like it's just It just doesn't... The money's 00:25:45.839 --> 00:25:52.779 all gone, but if the money had stayed in their 00:25:52.779 --> 00:25:55.319 country or hadn't been taken by individuals, 00:25:56.500 --> 00:26:01.339 Venezuela could truly have been made into something 00:26:01.339 --> 00:26:05.839 incredible. There have been natural disasters. 00:26:06.079 --> 00:26:09.660 There was a big storm in... The late 90s, which 00:26:09.660 --> 00:26:14.359 killed hundreds of thousands of people in mudslides, 00:26:14.500 --> 00:26:21.720 which is just absolutely agonizingly horrible. 00:26:21.980 --> 00:26:25.259 I can't even imagine that. Maybe it's because 00:26:25.259 --> 00:26:28.220 our country is incredibly flat and the weather's 00:26:28.220 --> 00:26:34.740 incredibly boring that I can't... If a dozen 00:26:34.740 --> 00:26:38.730 people die in a storm... in this country like 00:26:38.730 --> 00:26:42.150 you'd have a national day of mourning like hundreds 00:26:42.150 --> 00:26:50.049 of thousands is obscene um however sorry each 00:26:50.049 --> 00:26:52.789 of the parties came to power and then replaced 00:26:52.789 --> 00:27:01.329 uh the hugo chavez was um voted in um in i think 00:27:01.329 --> 00:27:08.920 1997 um he 98. He took power in 99. Oh, okay. 00:27:09.740 --> 00:27:13.779 99. Okay. He took power. Eventually, he died 00:27:13.779 --> 00:27:19.940 of stomach cancer in 2013. In that time, though, 00:27:19.940 --> 00:27:23.119 in the time of Chavez's rule, when he first kind 00:27:23.119 --> 00:27:26.759 of took power, a lot of people like Bernie Sanders, 00:27:27.000 --> 00:27:32.900 the American politician, and a lot of... slightly 00:27:32.900 --> 00:27:36.019 left -leaning politicians in our own country, 00:27:36.519 --> 00:27:40.319 raised Chavez and said, you know, like, this 00:27:40.319 --> 00:27:42.400 is a great day for socialism. This is going to 00:27:42.400 --> 00:27:49.700 work. The prices of oil from the start of Chavez's 00:27:49.700 --> 00:27:57.339 reign to the end of his reign went up by a factor 00:27:57.339 --> 00:28:03.000 of times 10. And yet, although people got slightly 00:28:03.000 --> 00:28:09.039 better off to begin with, just the fact that 00:28:09.039 --> 00:28:12.940 that money never made its way to the Venezuelan 00:28:12.940 --> 00:28:17.400 people. Into the infrastructure. Yeah, despite 00:28:17.400 --> 00:28:21.339 the fact that they're literally getting half 00:28:21.339 --> 00:28:25.039 the profits, the companies are going in, getting 00:28:25.039 --> 00:28:28.059 the oil, and then giving half of that money directly 00:28:28.059 --> 00:28:31.829 to the government. It's kind of beyond belief. 00:28:32.390 --> 00:28:38.470 Yeah, but how much of that price hike was countries 00:28:38.470 --> 00:28:44.990 like America imposing tariffs to make Venezuelan 00:28:44.990 --> 00:28:49.490 oil too expensive to be a reasonable commodity 00:28:49.490 --> 00:28:55.529 to buy? Well, the Americans use some of that 00:28:55.529 --> 00:28:58.329 oil. It wouldn't surprise me that market manipulation, 00:29:00.109 --> 00:29:03.990 uh definitely has definitely has played a part 00:29:03.990 --> 00:29:08.109 but because chavez wouldn't wouldn't ever um 00:29:08.109 --> 00:29:11.329 not through everything i read chavez was not 00:29:11.329 --> 00:29:14.890 one to like bend over backwards to accommodate 00:29:14.890 --> 00:29:23.430 the u .s oh no he he sold he openly um sold he 00:29:23.430 --> 00:29:27.799 sold uh there was something called like the The 00:29:27.799 --> 00:29:31.720 South American market, I'm misquoting here, but 00:29:31.720 --> 00:29:37.380 he sold oil cheaper to every other country but 00:29:37.380 --> 00:29:40.440 America and to other developing world nations. 00:29:40.500 --> 00:29:45.579 He sold the oil cheaper. He always made the Americans 00:29:45.579 --> 00:29:49.480 pay through the nose for it. I don't mean to 00:29:49.480 --> 00:29:54.259 side with him, but they can afford it. Yeah, 00:29:54.299 --> 00:29:59.559 well, that was very much his feeling. Although, 00:29:59.559 --> 00:30:05.839 I don't know enough about the human rights violations. 00:30:06.099 --> 00:30:08.880 I looked more at the history of Venezuela. But 00:30:08.880 --> 00:30:21.980 I know that Chavez gave the Colombians and the 00:30:21.980 --> 00:30:26.420 Cubans cheap oil. And from them, he learned how 00:30:26.420 --> 00:30:36.019 to gain a stranglehold on the country to the 00:30:36.019 --> 00:30:42.039 point where at one point he gets deposed only 00:30:42.039 --> 00:30:46.079 to be brought back in. Yeah, I was going to say 00:30:46.079 --> 00:30:48.640 that didn't work very long, but he was very charismatic, 00:30:48.700 --> 00:30:51.950 wasn't he? He was. One reason why he stayed in 00:30:51.950 --> 00:30:53.809 power for as long as he did is because he had 00:30:53.809 --> 00:30:57.930 the charisma. When he spoke, people genuinely 00:30:57.930 --> 00:31:01.109 believed what he was saying, what he was trying 00:31:01.109 --> 00:31:08.750 to do good. Yeah, that's it. Maduro definitely 00:31:08.750 --> 00:31:13.710 did this, but there are stories of Maduro and 00:31:13.710 --> 00:31:16.150 Chavez walking around the streets of Caracas 00:31:16.150 --> 00:31:25.099 and just... claiming businesses which you know 00:31:25.099 --> 00:31:28.339 like it takes a certain charisma to do like even 00:31:28.339 --> 00:31:33.579 if you've got a police guard with you like if 00:31:33.579 --> 00:31:35.779 you've spent your life working up a business 00:31:35.779 --> 00:31:37.500 and you've heard that the president is going 00:31:37.500 --> 00:31:43.400 around and it's not privatizing what's it called 00:31:43.400 --> 00:31:48.579 when the government takes something Oh, there's 00:31:48.579 --> 00:31:51.480 a name, nationalizing it. Yeah. And you hear 00:31:51.480 --> 00:31:54.619 that, like, people have gone on hunger strike 00:31:54.619 --> 00:31:58.880 and died from their family farm being nationalized 00:31:58.880 --> 00:32:00.700 because the president happened to be walking 00:32:00.700 --> 00:32:05.319 past and just saying, cool, that's now the people's. 00:32:05.839 --> 00:32:11.000 You shouldn't have that. I should have looked 00:32:11.000 --> 00:32:13.720 more into, like, more into Maduro, more into 00:32:13.720 --> 00:32:20.779 Chavez, but... It's not solely Maduro's and it's 00:32:20.779 --> 00:32:23.779 not solely Chavez's fault that the countries 00:32:23.779 --> 00:32:27.900 are in the state that they're in. No, but one 00:32:27.900 --> 00:32:30.440 thing that I do know from the reading that I've 00:32:30.440 --> 00:32:35.059 done is that Maduro lacked that charisma that 00:32:35.059 --> 00:32:38.460 Chavez had. And when he managed to get into power, 00:32:38.660 --> 00:32:43.759 he had to shift his hold. on the country to a 00:32:43.759 --> 00:32:46.220 slightly different tact in order to impose the 00:32:46.220 --> 00:32:52.599 same level of power that Chavez had. Where Chavez 00:32:52.599 --> 00:32:56.940 could talk in order to get what he wanted from 00:32:56.940 --> 00:33:00.140 the people, Maduro had to go about it a different 00:33:00.140 --> 00:33:03.079 way. That wasn't going to work for him. So he 00:33:03.079 --> 00:33:08.480 started using more, or should we say he started 00:33:08.480 --> 00:33:17.789 using less. socially acceptable ways of controlling 00:33:17.789 --> 00:33:26.190 the people absolutely back in 2016 under Maduro 00:33:26.190 --> 00:33:31.029 Colombia opened its borders very very briefly 00:33:31.029 --> 00:33:36.410 and Venezuelans in this brief moment when the 00:33:36.410 --> 00:33:40.490 border was opened used this opportunity to run 00:33:40.490 --> 00:33:44.589 over into the Colombian border to use their savings 00:33:44.589 --> 00:33:50.930 to buy food, milk, and basic medical supplies. 00:33:51.990 --> 00:33:56.150 At this point, this grabbed the attention. And 00:33:56.150 --> 00:34:00.109 it's not just, you know, like 12 people. This 00:34:00.109 --> 00:34:05.029 was hundreds of people all crossing the border 00:34:05.029 --> 00:34:10.179 at the same time. bursting into neighboring towns 00:34:10.179 --> 00:34:13.960 and villages just to get basic supplies. At this 00:34:13.960 --> 00:34:18.159 point, the UN kind of spoke up and said that 00:34:18.159 --> 00:34:23.059 there's a problem here. And Maduro has spent 00:34:23.059 --> 00:34:27.119 all of this time up until recently saying that 00:34:27.119 --> 00:34:29.940 there is not a problem, that there is none of 00:34:29.940 --> 00:34:35.409 your business. controlling the press so that 00:34:35.409 --> 00:34:41.550 the poverty in Venezuela isn't talked about isn't 00:34:41.550 --> 00:34:44.570 kind of broadcast around the world and on top 00:34:44.570 --> 00:34:49.269 of that refusing humanitarian aid from the UN 00:34:49.269 --> 00:34:59.309 and unfortunately this narrative is the one that 00:34:59.840 --> 00:35:04.260 the Americans can very easily latch onto as a 00:35:04.260 --> 00:35:09.639 reason for disregarding another country's borders 00:35:09.639 --> 00:35:15.840 and taking him. It's not the entire reason, though, 00:35:15.920 --> 00:35:22.840 as Venezuela is, there's a word in Spanish, I 00:35:22.840 --> 00:35:27.199 can't even remember it, it's basically, the drugs 00:35:27.199 --> 00:35:30.710 aren't made. Venezuela is involved in the drug 00:35:30.710 --> 00:35:34.909 trade, but the drugs aren't made in Venezuela. 00:35:35.789 --> 00:35:40.070 Venezuela is literally known as the bridge. It's 00:35:40.070 --> 00:35:43.949 where they go through in order to get into America, 00:35:44.170 --> 00:35:46.949 in order to get into other countries, which shouldn't 00:35:46.949 --> 00:35:51.050 be all that surprising as the Venezuelan ports 00:35:51.050 --> 00:35:55.989 are on the Caribbean basin and makes transport 00:35:55.989 --> 00:35:58.829 a lot, lot easier. Yeah, I know they've got a 00:35:58.829 --> 00:36:03.329 lot of trade with Cuba. Yeah. It surprises me 00:36:03.329 --> 00:36:04.809 to know that they've got a lot of trade with 00:36:04.809 --> 00:36:08.510 Russia and with China as well. Well, but this 00:36:08.510 --> 00:36:15.050 is the thing. Again, it's the fact that they 00:36:15.050 --> 00:36:19.389 were a left -wing nation. So it's to do with 00:36:19.389 --> 00:36:22.409 communism, to do with Marxism, like Hugo Chavez. 00:36:25.820 --> 00:36:28.360 venerated the original founders of Venezuela, 00:36:28.460 --> 00:36:33.940 but he also venerated Marxism and kind of made 00:36:33.940 --> 00:36:40.860 up... He consolidated his beliefs into a certain 00:36:40.860 --> 00:36:43.760 rhetoric, and it is called... I think people 00:36:43.760 --> 00:36:47.980 who believe in it are called chavistas. I don't 00:36:47.980 --> 00:36:50.099 know enough about the rhetoric, though, to say 00:36:50.099 --> 00:36:52.719 if I agree or disagree. All I'll say is the results. 00:36:53.750 --> 00:36:55.969 We've got chavs in the UK, but they're a bit 00:36:55.969 --> 00:36:58.510 different. They are a little bit different. A 00:36:58.510 --> 00:37:01.090 little bit stylish, mind, but a little bit different. 00:37:01.769 --> 00:37:04.409 I don't know if you'd call socks, like trousers 00:37:04.409 --> 00:37:08.349 tucked into their socks, stylish, but... That's 00:37:08.349 --> 00:37:11.710 different. They're making a statement. Right. 00:37:14.750 --> 00:37:23.480 I guess I'll... I know that apparently... When 00:37:23.480 --> 00:37:30.039 they took Maduro, there were a couple of explosions. 00:37:31.440 --> 00:37:34.619 The thing that first alerted people to the fact 00:37:34.619 --> 00:37:36.659 that this was happening was the fact that at 00:37:36.659 --> 00:37:40.519 Caracas, there's a no -fly zone over the city. 00:37:41.199 --> 00:37:47.360 So people heard aircraft coming in. And the fact 00:37:47.360 --> 00:37:52.159 that nobody... I mean, I'd like to think that 00:37:52.159 --> 00:37:56.320 if a huge amount of blood had been spilt during 00:37:56.320 --> 00:38:00.139 this taking, that someone would have reported 00:38:00.139 --> 00:38:04.179 on it. I don't, I mean, I remember seeing the 00:38:04.179 --> 00:38:08.739 news reports. I know I saw a missile strike. 00:38:08.920 --> 00:38:13.739 Where that missile strike was targeting, I can't 00:38:13.739 --> 00:38:19.269 confirm. But I also know that... Venezuela isn't 00:38:19.269 --> 00:38:25.309 known for its military presence. Yeah, there 00:38:25.309 --> 00:38:30.409 are gangs, there are secret police, but they 00:38:30.409 --> 00:38:33.849 are not, I don't think their standing army is 00:38:33.849 --> 00:38:36.949 massive. No. So I don't think it would have been 00:38:36.949 --> 00:38:48.619 a big battle to go in and depose Maduro. I think 00:38:48.619 --> 00:38:50.559 it's a good chance to really talk about that, 00:38:50.639 --> 00:38:54.239 right? Like you've alluded to a number of times, 00:38:54.519 --> 00:39:02.900 America, they'll use any opportunity to monopolize 00:39:02.900 --> 00:39:08.639 if they can. And there is so much of what I was 00:39:08.639 --> 00:39:12.900 reading that made me feel like this was one of 00:39:12.900 --> 00:39:20.590 those occasions where they had used Almost, what's 00:39:20.590 --> 00:39:26.829 that religious term about the devil or what's 00:39:26.829 --> 00:39:31.329 the bloke that comes wearing, he looks like Jesus, 00:39:31.369 --> 00:39:34.929 but he's not. The Antichrist. The Antichrist, 00:39:35.010 --> 00:39:38.809 that's the one. That kind of an antichristic 00:39:38.809 --> 00:39:42.050 image of like, we're going in, we're going to 00:39:42.050 --> 00:39:43.750 do the good thing. We're going to go in and do 00:39:43.750 --> 00:39:46.050 the good thing. No, what you're actually going 00:39:46.050 --> 00:39:50.429 in to do. is to appoint your powers to manage 00:39:50.429 --> 00:39:54.389 the oil deportation out of Venezuela and put 00:39:54.389 --> 00:39:57.949 your own leader in place in Venezuela to run 00:39:57.949 --> 00:40:01.469 the country how you want it to be run. But if 00:40:01.469 --> 00:40:06.829 you genuinely wanted Venezuela to succeed and 00:40:06.829 --> 00:40:11.010 thrive as a nation, if you felt the need to go 00:40:11.010 --> 00:40:18.460 in and depose its leader, a leader that was, 00:40:18.539 --> 00:40:22.400 or allow the nation to select a leader and then 00:40:22.400 --> 00:40:25.659 put in, I don't know, maybe minders or something 00:40:25.659 --> 00:40:28.300 like that to give them the stability and the 00:40:28.300 --> 00:40:30.780 guidance they needed to run, like learn to run 00:40:30.780 --> 00:40:34.920 their country in a way that was humanitarian. 00:40:36.679 --> 00:40:40.960 And you wouldn't touch the bloody oil. You'd 00:40:40.960 --> 00:40:43.619 say it's your resource. You need it to grow and 00:40:43.619 --> 00:40:48.889 develop. We're going to help you become a humanitarian 00:40:48.889 --> 00:40:53.329 country with good rights and good infrastructure, 00:40:53.849 --> 00:40:57.650 but you're going to need that oil industry to 00:40:57.650 --> 00:41:03.829 build an economy to sustain your country. You 00:41:03.829 --> 00:41:06.469 wouldn't go in and put your own oil companies 00:41:06.469 --> 00:41:16.019 in as a means to manage that oil supply. The 00:41:16.019 --> 00:41:21.340 main thing that makes my blood boil is the fact 00:41:21.340 --> 00:41:30.099 that the biggest threat to America at the moment 00:41:30.099 --> 00:41:35.559 is this trade situation with China and Russia 00:41:35.559 --> 00:41:40.820 and how they're losing economic power in the 00:41:40.820 --> 00:41:45.239 world, mainly through bad choices. on their part, 00:41:45.380 --> 00:41:51.679 but also because these understated but powerful 00:41:51.679 --> 00:41:55.820 countries are getting more powerful and striking 00:41:55.820 --> 00:41:59.440 up more deals around the world. Venezuela opened 00:41:59.440 --> 00:42:04.800 trade deals with all of them, and they hated 00:42:04.800 --> 00:42:13.159 that. Look at what Trump threatened. the Canadian 00:42:13.159 --> 00:42:17.099 president with when the Canadian president entertained 00:42:17.099 --> 00:42:21.900 a trade deal with China. I don't know how he 00:42:21.900 --> 00:42:24.900 reacted. What did Trump say? He threatened them 00:42:24.900 --> 00:42:29.219 with a 100 % tariff on all imports from Canada 00:42:29.219 --> 00:42:39.309 to America. Wow. Admittedly, his Senate... did 00:42:39.309 --> 00:42:41.750 slap him quite hard and say you can't do that 00:42:41.750 --> 00:42:44.630 mate and he had to retract his statement but 00:42:44.630 --> 00:42:49.170 the fact is their leader is very twitchy about 00:42:49.170 --> 00:42:53.369 anybody striking up good trade deals with anyone 00:42:53.369 --> 00:43:00.010 that isn't america and it just i think it's coincidental 00:43:00.010 --> 00:43:03.349 and i don't like coincidences i don't believe 00:43:03.349 --> 00:43:07.219 in them um It's coincidental that this comes 00:43:07.219 --> 00:43:11.219 at a time when we're seeing the kind of behavior 00:43:11.219 --> 00:43:13.900 from America that we're seeing at the moment. 00:43:15.400 --> 00:43:18.260 And it's at this time that they decided to go 00:43:18.260 --> 00:43:23.619 in and depose the leader of Venezuela. Under 00:43:23.619 --> 00:43:29.940 this guise of humanitarianism and reducing the 00:43:29.940 --> 00:43:34.920 risk of wars. And I won't go into Trump's recent 00:43:34.920 --> 00:43:38.519 actions could be a whole nother podcast on Trump, 00:43:38.579 --> 00:43:40.900 if I'm completely honest. But that's not where 00:43:40.900 --> 00:43:43.260 I'm going with this. The point is, America has 00:43:43.260 --> 00:43:45.860 always been you look at the war in Iraq and in 00:43:45.860 --> 00:43:51.940 the Gulf. And that was predominantly around oil 00:43:51.940 --> 00:43:56.679 trade and resource trade within the Middle East. 00:43:57.460 --> 00:44:04.269 The Gulf War initially was. was conducted as 00:44:04.269 --> 00:44:09.050 a means to impose their economic standing in 00:44:09.050 --> 00:44:13.369 the Middle East. And when Saddam Hussein eventually 00:44:13.369 --> 00:44:15.610 bent over and said, fine, I'll give you what 00:44:15.610 --> 00:44:18.030 you want, they buggered off back to America and 00:44:18.030 --> 00:44:21.309 we went back to the UK and we were happy with 00:44:21.309 --> 00:44:24.510 that deal that we had and we got on with it. 00:44:24.570 --> 00:44:31.010 And then 20, 30, 40 years later, Saddam Hussein 00:44:31.010 --> 00:44:34.090 went, no, we're not doing this anymore. I'm going 00:44:34.090 --> 00:44:37.570 to stand up for my country and fight for what 00:44:37.570 --> 00:44:40.409 my country needs. And they went in and took him 00:44:40.409 --> 00:44:44.050 down. That is essentially the long and the short 00:44:44.050 --> 00:44:47.269 of it. They can put whatever face on it they 00:44:47.269 --> 00:44:50.449 want. The fact is they didn't get out of Iraq 00:44:50.449 --> 00:44:56.829 or Iran what they were looking for. So they punched 00:44:56.829 --> 00:44:58.690 him in the face until they got what they needed. 00:44:59.159 --> 00:45:00.780 And when he didn't back down, when they punched 00:45:00.780 --> 00:45:02.719 him in the face even harder, they killed him 00:45:02.719 --> 00:45:05.360 and put in their own leader. And it feels very 00:45:05.360 --> 00:45:11.760 similar that they invaded and deposed Venezuela 00:45:11.760 --> 00:45:17.079 in this kind of way. It feels very Gulf War -esque. 00:45:17.159 --> 00:45:21.019 The only difference with Iran was that they trained 00:45:21.019 --> 00:45:24.179 Saddam Hussein to be a very powerful leader. 00:45:24.539 --> 00:45:28.460 And he used that training to protect his country. 00:45:29.019 --> 00:45:31.039 And they weren't ready for that. So it ended 00:45:31.039 --> 00:45:35.559 up with a war. Venezuela didn't have that level 00:45:35.559 --> 00:45:38.760 of skill or the infrastructure to defend itself 00:45:38.760 --> 00:45:42.659 in the same way. Maduro definitely did not have 00:45:42.659 --> 00:45:46.920 the same level of training that Saddam Hussein 00:45:46.920 --> 00:45:53.480 had. He wasn't equipped to protect his country. 00:45:54.920 --> 00:45:58.519 Even if, like, I mean... And this is not like, 00:45:58.579 --> 00:46:00.760 listeners, please don't think that I'm siding 00:46:00.760 --> 00:46:05.500 with the leadership in Venezuela here. They needed 00:46:05.500 --> 00:46:10.320 to be stopped. But there's a way to do it that 00:46:10.320 --> 00:46:15.440 shows the intention behind your getting involved. 00:46:16.559 --> 00:46:22.519 The way to do it is to show that you are not 00:46:22.519 --> 00:46:26.420 wanting to profit. You want the humans within 00:46:26.420 --> 00:46:31.059 that country to benefit from a change in leadership. 00:46:31.820 --> 00:46:33.940 And how you do that is you go, I'm not taking 00:46:33.940 --> 00:46:36.800 anything from you. We're just going to help you 00:46:36.800 --> 00:46:41.599 get off on the right foot. That's definitely 00:46:41.599 --> 00:46:45.519 not what's happening here. No, sadly, it's definitely 00:46:45.519 --> 00:46:52.500 not. Venezuela's interim leader is a member. 00:46:53.610 --> 00:47:04.610 of the Maduro government. It's the only one who 00:47:04.610 --> 00:47:10.030 doesn't currently have an American bounty on 00:47:10.030 --> 00:47:14.630 their head for millions upon millions of dollars. 00:47:15.789 --> 00:47:21.389 The rest of the, yeah, the rest of the government. 00:47:22.039 --> 00:47:27.059 Leaders do. They've literally. Said that this 00:47:27.059 --> 00:47:30.599 person. Isn't forever. They don't have enough 00:47:30.599 --> 00:47:34.579 power. So that they're going to be. What's the 00:47:34.579 --> 00:47:39.039 right word. So. They're literally just using 00:47:39.039 --> 00:47:45.079 them. As a. Stop gap. As a stop gap. And then 00:47:45.079 --> 00:47:49.739 they're not going to. To touch. To touch them. 00:47:50.639 --> 00:47:54.590 Apparently. According to someone, I can't remember 00:47:54.590 --> 00:48:00.869 who said this in Trigonometry, but like one of 00:48:00.869 --> 00:48:06.130 the people there was talking about the fact that 00:48:06.130 --> 00:48:12.570 America had been in contact with Maduro and had 00:48:12.570 --> 00:48:15.590 basically said, look, we don't like what you're 00:48:15.590 --> 00:48:19.530 doing. If you leave the country now, we're not 00:48:19.530 --> 00:48:24.570 going to do. anything to you but uh yeah we you 00:48:24.570 --> 00:48:28.869 know we need what we need um we don't like what 00:48:28.869 --> 00:48:32.610 you're doing if you stop now and leave then you 00:48:32.610 --> 00:48:35.110 won't be touched if not we're going to take you 00:48:35.110 --> 00:48:38.530 is apparently like a conversation has happened 00:48:38.530 --> 00:48:43.469 at some point but again it's i think this is 00:48:43.469 --> 00:48:46.510 conjecture no way i'm pretty sure that was conjecture 00:48:47.179 --> 00:48:53.079 on the host part and it's just it's frustrating 00:48:53.079 --> 00:48:56.860 because you remove one bad person from a terrible 00:48:56.860 --> 00:49:03.679 regime and from a country which has been suffering 00:49:03.679 --> 00:49:15.360 for like several decades very intensely but several 00:49:15.360 --> 00:49:19.210 centuries just generally you know there's been 00:49:19.210 --> 00:49:21.070 some good times in there but they've not been 00:49:21.070 --> 00:49:24.389 you know the good times look like they've been 00:49:24.389 --> 00:49:26.690 very few and far between for the Venezuelan people 00:49:26.690 --> 00:49:33.210 it's not going to change anything you're absolutely 00:49:33.210 --> 00:49:36.070 right you know like if you if you're going to 00:49:36.070 --> 00:49:39.110 do this then you wouldn't touch the natural resources 00:49:39.110 --> 00:49:43.289 at all you'd send in a small strike force but 00:49:43.289 --> 00:49:48.340 you'd have boots on the ground stopping Bad things 00:49:48.340 --> 00:49:52.059 from happening. As it stands at the moment. According 00:49:52.059 --> 00:49:54.780 to a Venezuelan national. Who was on trigonometry. 00:49:54.980 --> 00:49:59.199 And I need to find out. What their name was exactly. 00:49:59.860 --> 00:50:03.860 But there are still. There is still a curfew. 00:50:05.460 --> 00:50:10.079 In Caracas. There is still. The same people. 00:50:10.400 --> 00:50:16.239 Are in charge. The same social situation. It's 00:50:16.239 --> 00:50:18.829 still. all the same. And although it's going 00:50:18.829 --> 00:50:23.130 to take time for things to change, ultimately 00:50:23.130 --> 00:50:26.750 all that America's got is an interim leader who 00:50:26.750 --> 00:50:30.269 has said, quite categorically, we will give America 00:50:30.269 --> 00:50:35.010 whatever they want. That's all they've achieved. 00:50:36.329 --> 00:50:39.230 It's a lot of reason why they've stopped punching 00:50:39.230 --> 00:50:45.369 them in the face. Yeah. That's it. That's it. 00:50:46.989 --> 00:50:49.389 What do you think will be the future for Venezuela? 00:50:49.489 --> 00:50:52.329 Do you think things will ever get better? I think 00:50:52.329 --> 00:50:55.469 it's going to go the same kind of way that Syria 00:50:55.469 --> 00:50:59.510 did. I don't know if you know a little bit about 00:50:59.510 --> 00:51:08.309 the history of Syria. Syria was quite a nationalist 00:51:08.309 --> 00:51:14.489 country. For example, they were paying its citizens... 00:51:15.789 --> 00:51:19.869 hefty grants to start farms build up their own 00:51:19.869 --> 00:51:23.630 economy like they were like wanting to build 00:51:23.630 --> 00:51:27.769 their own economy and and keep trade from the 00:51:27.769 --> 00:51:30.809 inside to the outside instead of having to import 00:51:30.809 --> 00:51:33.730 as much as they were having to at the time um 00:51:33.730 --> 00:51:42.500 and then for some reason um There was political 00:51:42.500 --> 00:51:48.159 unrest, civil uproar, and then deposition happened 00:51:48.159 --> 00:51:53.199 and a new leader was put in place. The new leader 00:51:53.199 --> 00:51:57.239 has since struck up hefty trade deals with America 00:51:57.239 --> 00:52:01.739 and other countries that are part of that ilk, 00:52:01.860 --> 00:52:09.579 us along with them, and are now importing a lot 00:52:09.579 --> 00:52:12.920 more goods. they're buying more than they're 00:52:12.920 --> 00:52:16.679 selling. And I can see the same kind of thing 00:52:16.679 --> 00:52:19.800 happening to Venezuela. It's not about the economy 00:52:19.800 --> 00:52:24.000 benefiting. It's about them feeding into this 00:52:24.000 --> 00:52:27.719 cycle where the American or the Western economy 00:52:27.719 --> 00:52:49.719 benefits. Yeah, I... It'd be nice if... The American 00:52:49.719 --> 00:52:52.840 companies are already in control of the companies 00:52:52.840 --> 00:52:56.280 that Venezuela had in place to manage their oil 00:52:56.280 --> 00:53:00.139 distribution. They've handed that over to companies 00:53:00.139 --> 00:53:04.059 like US Standard Oil. So they've already lost 00:53:04.059 --> 00:53:12.980 that as a means of economic stability, economic 00:53:12.980 --> 00:53:17.800 standing, shall we say. and any other resources 00:53:17.800 --> 00:53:24.000 that they have, it will go the same way. And 00:53:24.000 --> 00:53:29.800 it's sad because independence, a country that 00:53:29.800 --> 00:53:36.139 is able to sustain itself and support itself, 00:53:36.400 --> 00:53:40.929 will start to look... The more stable you are 00:53:40.929 --> 00:53:42.889 in yourself, the more you start to look outward 00:53:42.889 --> 00:53:46.449 and want to help other people. The more you're 00:53:46.449 --> 00:53:51.829 instable, you keep your eyes focused on yourself 00:53:51.829 --> 00:53:55.389 and you stop thinking about everybody else. And 00:53:55.389 --> 00:54:04.409 if the world is to ever know a time of peace 00:54:04.409 --> 00:54:11.849 where... borders are more of a grey area than 00:54:11.849 --> 00:54:18.389 they are of a firm, stern, black line, people 00:54:18.389 --> 00:54:21.610 are going to have to feel safe in themselves 00:54:21.610 --> 00:54:27.050 in their own homes and not be so insecure that 00:54:27.050 --> 00:54:34.590 they can't look outside their own windows. I 00:54:34.590 --> 00:54:44.909 mean, yeah. Yeah. Listen, we could have gone 00:54:44.909 --> 00:54:47.449 deeper, right? Because right now I have got a 00:54:47.449 --> 00:54:52.110 lot to say about America and a lot to say about 00:54:52.110 --> 00:54:58.469 the most recent World Forum and the happenings 00:54:58.469 --> 00:55:03.670 there and the kind of big boy bully move that 00:55:03.670 --> 00:55:05.630 America's trying to pull on the rest of the world 00:55:05.630 --> 00:55:08.550 at the moment. And I'm glad we didn't because 00:55:08.550 --> 00:55:10.889 it would have just turned into a passionate rant 00:55:10.889 --> 00:55:18.909 about trades, deals, tariffs and agreements being 00:55:18.909 --> 00:55:27.989 mutually exclusive and not angled towards any 00:55:27.989 --> 00:55:33.400 one particular party. Sorry that this podcast 00:55:33.400 --> 00:55:35.760 turned into a little bit of that, but I think 00:55:35.760 --> 00:55:38.800 it was always going to, given the US's involvement. 00:55:40.699 --> 00:55:45.119 But, yeah, it was a great history lesson. I think 00:55:45.119 --> 00:55:48.500 it was really enlightening to know that hopefully 00:55:48.500 --> 00:55:54.960 there can be some positive come of this, whereby 00:55:54.960 --> 00:56:00.679 now that there is some... from more established 00:56:00.679 --> 00:56:10.719 and... At the very least, I'm hoping at least 00:56:10.719 --> 00:56:14.380 with some of the American influence in there, 00:56:14.500 --> 00:56:21.719 the hydroelectric dam will be repaired. Let's 00:56:21.719 --> 00:56:26.000 just hope the humanitarian elements of having 00:56:26.000 --> 00:56:30.380 US involvement benefit the country yeah so like 00:56:30.380 --> 00:56:33.340 without Maduro there to block humanitarian aid 00:56:33.340 --> 00:56:38.920 like maybe in a month's time we'll actually you 00:56:38.920 --> 00:56:42.019 know maybe like Oxfam we'll see an Oxfam advert 00:56:42.019 --> 00:56:44.320 and actually have the chance to give towards 00:56:44.320 --> 00:56:48.400 some basic you know medical or food supplies 00:56:48.400 --> 00:56:54.519 for the people of Venezuela but yeah it's weird 00:56:54.519 --> 00:56:58.519 that that's not been offered or talked about 00:56:58.519 --> 00:57:02.139 at all but I realized not the world is in need 00:57:02.139 --> 00:57:05.139 and you can't focus on everything but it would 00:57:05.139 --> 00:57:08.519 yeah I'm surprised I haven't seen any advertisements 00:57:08.519 --> 00:57:12.880 or heard of any charities like kind of being 00:57:12.880 --> 00:57:17.219 able or immediately going in thank you very much 00:57:17.219 --> 00:57:20.769 listeners sorry that I'm My scatterbrain way 00:57:20.769 --> 00:57:23.409 of describing things isn't quite as good as it 00:57:23.409 --> 00:57:25.869 should be, but hopefully now you understand a 00:57:25.869 --> 00:57:31.889 little bit more about Venezuela, about the Spanish 00:57:31.889 --> 00:57:35.550 influence over the country, about some of the 00:57:35.550 --> 00:57:38.110 problems faced with its most recent leadership, 00:57:38.329 --> 00:57:43.690 not necessarily being an exception, but unfortunately 00:57:43.690 --> 00:57:48.519 more the norm within the country. Hope you all 00:57:48.519 --> 00:57:50.780 have a good couple of weeks or months until we 00:57:50.780 --> 00:57:53.619 next record. Speak to you soon. Bye.