1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,640
Hi, Nick here from Pods with Nick and James.

2
00:00:02,640 --> 00:00:05,200
Just a quick one before we get into this podcast.

3
00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:12,000
I want to say a massive thank you for the support that we've received since starting these podcasts.

4
00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:16,240
We thoroughly enjoy it and we look forward to creating more.

5
00:00:16,240 --> 00:00:22,960
If you want to have your say on any topics that we've discussed or suggest future topics,

6
00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:30,400
then you can do so at www.reddit.com slash r slash nickandjamespods.

7
00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:35,200
And if you want to support us you can do so for from as little as one pound a month

8
00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:40,560
and you can do that at www.patreon.com slash podswithnickandjames.

9
00:00:40,560 --> 00:01:03,280
Anyway, back to the podcast.

10
00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:06,800
Hi, welcome to Pods with Nick and James.

11
00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:11,760
I am your co-host James. Say hi, Nick.

12
00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:13,360
Hi.

13
00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:18,640
Cool. Right, so today's topic is something that's close to my own heart,

14
00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:20,320
but actually something I'll be honest with you.

15
00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:28,000
I've let go over the years. For some reason, I really picked this up,

16
00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:36,240
this theory up when I first came to faith in my early 20s. I think I was actually 20.

17
00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:44,400
And then, you know, did some reading into it. But I just over the years, let it go as I,

18
00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:54,080
I don't, I stopped seeing it as an absolute or as a, there are parts of this that I disagree

19
00:01:54,080 --> 00:02:02,080
with as well. But the theory that I'm going on about and already tripping up over is the

20
00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:13,440
theory of intelligent design, which in my mind is the idea that the universe is so finely tuned,

21
00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:22,240
that there are so many, not, well, coincidence is the wrong word.

22
00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:32,400
But that there are so many details and exact details which allow for the universe to exist

23
00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:41,120
as it does and for life to be possible as it is that seem to point towards the existence of

24
00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:50,560
a transcendent cause to the universe, which a lot of people then put down as God and said,

25
00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:58,800
then put down as God and some people just see as a transcendent cause. What really surprises me

26
00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:10,960
is that even this theory nowadays, sometimes the annoying thing is some advocates of it

27
00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:19,120
are using pseudoscience and some advocates of it are just using science. And you get,

28
00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:28,960
it's frustrating to me that it, it's frustrating to me that there's a lot of disagreement

29
00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:37,680
on this topic within the scientific community and nobody hears about it. But the more I've

30
00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:43,040
done research into this, the more it looks like there's actually disagreements in

31
00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:50,880
in loads of scientific theories all the time and none of us hear or know anything about it.

32
00:03:50,880 --> 00:04:00,320
This has been really enlightening for me on my own, my own ignorance of the modern history of

33
00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:10,960
science, the modern history of multiple scientific findings. And it's just, you know what, it's been

34
00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:20,640
a pleasure to read about and to get back into. My main source has been the case for a creator by

35
00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:34,880
Lee Strobel. Lee Strobel was a atheist news reporter who did research, kept on doing research into

36
00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:47,760
whether God existed by speaking to a lot of high-end scientists. And despite some of the

37
00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:53,200
fine things that he found out, a lot of what he thought, what he found the evidence was went

38
00:04:53,200 --> 00:05:06,960
against his own beliefs and eventually he ended up coming to know God himself through what he

39
00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:13,280
studied. What I will say just as a quick caveat thing is that although I believe there are things

40
00:05:13,280 --> 00:05:21,520
that point towards the existence of God, I don't see, I wouldn't consider myself an advocate of

41
00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:28,320
intelligence design simply because I don't, I still don't think you can prove,

42
00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:35,840
I don't think you can prove the existence of God through intelligent argument,

43
00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:46,160
which is possibly a massive failing in myself as a Christian. But yeah, that's just how I feel about

44
00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:51,680
it. I think you need to have a personal experience, otherwise you're not going to have

45
00:05:52,880 --> 00:06:00,720
things that are needed to make you believe some of the things that I believe. Now I know you've

46
00:06:01,840 --> 00:06:07,920
done a fair amount of research into this over the years, Nick, and I also know that although we're

47
00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:13,360
on different sides of the fence of this, I will happily, as I sit here, freely admit that you've

48
00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:19,520
probably done a fair bit more research into this. What are some of my other sources would be

49
00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:25,600
Reasonable Faith by Dr. William Lane Craig. I'm probably going to buy this book called Icons of

50
00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:30,640
Evolution and even though I disagree with the conclusions that are brought up in that book,

51
00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:35,680
it still seemed to have some interesting facts about scientific inquiries that are

52
00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:44,480
displayed in textbooks, at least in America. What is your understanding of intelligent design and

53
00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:50,400
what are some of the readings that you've been doing? Well, for me, my first introduction,

54
00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:56,640
should we say, to intelligent design was I was about nine and I went to Sunday school

55
00:06:56,640 --> 00:07:05,840
and was introduced to the Christian faith and the ideology of there being a creator

56
00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:15,600
who designed not just the earth, the sky, the plants, the animals, humans as well.

57
00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:25,040
And it didn't didn't compute with my head at the time. As I grew up, I've always been quite a

58
00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:34,400
skeptic, but I've always been very open minded. I almost sit there and say, convert me. That's

59
00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:42,160
basically been my argument with a lot of faiths that I've had conversations with. I've basically

60
00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:50,960
sat there and just had conversations with pastors, with missionaries, whoever, and given them the

61
00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:57,920
option, given them the opportunity to convert me, talk to me about their faith and bring me over to

62
00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:04,880
their side, because I also, I find myself going, there's millions of people that believe what you

63
00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:14,800
believe. I can't just deny the fact that that might have some relevance, might have some truth.

64
00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:27,680
So I go, I'm not intelligent enough on my own to argue against you despite the fact that I don't

65
00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:34,720
hold the same beliefs as you. So what that's done is it's allowed me to accumulate a perspective

66
00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:41,040
of not just one faith, but many faiths, many different perspectives of intelligent design.

67
00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:47,600
And then what I've also done is I've also had a real curiosity into the scientific world

68
00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:55,280
and the world of the unknown and the unexplainable and things like that. And all the time that you're

69
00:08:55,280 --> 00:09:03,600
going through that kind of research, you find yourself going, you find yourself almost asking

70
00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:16,160
the question, is there relevance? Is there some other part at play here? So there's always that

71
00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:20,160
question in the back of your mind, whether or not that's part of conditioning, part of growing up

72
00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:24,640
in a world where there are faiths and when there are those faiths, you always have that open-ended

73
00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:29,840
question in the back of your mind, like are we being watched? Is there a higher power, as it were?

74
00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:40,560
So it's difficult to really argue against, as I said, it's difficult to argue against

75
00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:49,120
intelligent design, but at the same time, it's not something that you can, as you said,

76
00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:56,560
it's not something that you can necessarily prove. So it's not something that you can

77
00:09:56,560 --> 00:10:02,400
as you said, it's not something that you can necessarily prove, unless we actually went,

78
00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:08,640
we actually managed to find the Ye Olde Grand Workbench where it was worked upon

79
00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:15,840
and found evidence with the tools and the DNA evidence and whatnot else of what was used to

80
00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:23,920
create said remnants and said ancestors and planets and whatever else. There's no real way

81
00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:30,800
that you can actually prove it. So for those devout, I'll believe it if I see it, you're never

82
00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:40,400
going to believe it. But for those that look for the meaning between the lines, it's hard to deny it.

83
00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:41,440
Maybe it can work for them.

84
00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:47,440
Yeah, it's hard to deny it. Some of the most intelligent people in the world throughout history

85
00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:54,320
have come to the conclusion that there's very good grounds for intelligent design.

86
00:10:58,880 --> 00:11:01,280
Yeah, like Newton, Einstein.

87
00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:08,480
Isaac Newton said, this most beautiful system of the sun, planets and comets could only proceed

88
00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:18,160
from the counsel and dominion of an intelligent and powerful being. Basically saying that the

89
00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:25,760
position of the stars, of the sun and the planets and the comets and everything else in our,

90
00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:38,640
just in our solar system, so perfectly tuned that it couldn't just be happenstance.

91
00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:45,840
Yeah, well, that's the thing. I know there's a famous, with these sorts of stories, it's always

92
00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:50,720
hard to know whether they're actually true or not, because, you know, who knows if the famous people

93
00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:59,760
said what they're reported to have said. But one conversation between Isaac Newton and a friend of

94
00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:11,360
his who was an atheist at the time, Isaac left a beautifully painted globe in his study when his

95
00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:19,040
friend came to visit him, and then left his friend waiting in there a couple of minutes, which even

96
00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:25,440
to me is like basic manipulation. Don't be doing that. Don't make your point by getting people to

97
00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:32,160
wait for you or whatever. But anyway, moving on. He came down and his friends asked him,

98
00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:41,680
oh, who made this beautiful globe? And the whole argument is incredibly trite, but Newton was just

99
00:12:41,680 --> 00:12:49,600
like, oh, well, no one made it. It's just there. And then use that as a backwards and forwards

100
00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:57,840
between the two as a way of talking about the universe and how it must have some kind of

101
00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:07,360
transcendent cause. The reason why the intelligent design argument has become slightly more prevalent

102
00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:14,960
in today's society rather than in ancient culture is because people like Plato, well, actually,

103
00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:22,080
Plato did believe that the world was created by the demiurge, but Aristotle just thought that

104
00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:32,320
the universe is simply infinite and eternal. And a lot of thinkers in a lot of societies

105
00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:42,560
have believed that. And to be fair, the universe, it may not be infinite, but I have no way of

106
00:13:42,560 --> 00:13:51,840
proving that it's not. I also, it's so big that it almost might as well be. And also, although

107
00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:59,920
the universe I don't believe will be, is or will be eternal, it's going to exist for such a long

108
00:13:59,920 --> 00:14:09,200
time beyond myself that once again, it might as well be. So it's difficult to, with these things,

109
00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:20,000
it's difficult to separate the fiction, the theory, and the fact. But like for me, the reason,

110
00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:25,200
not for me, sorry, the reason why this, back to the original point, I'm already just struggling

111
00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:36,160
to get my thoughts together, the reason why this school of thought has become slightly more, and

112
00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:42,160
the reason why I say slightly more is because it's not in the news every single day. It's not

113
00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:51,840
on the front of loads of magazines all the time. It's just there in, at the end of a YouTube video

114
00:14:51,840 --> 00:15:00,160
on biology, on a YouTube video in, on science, in a scientific magazine. It's just, it's there. It's

115
00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:07,280
a thought which has occurred. Is, sorry, the reason why this thing has become about is because

116
00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:18,480
things like the Big Bang Theory, the fact that, the undeniable fact that the universe is expanding,

117
00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:26,800
are well-known facts that have been taught in schools for at least what, like,

118
00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:34,880
I want to say a hundred years at this point, but it might be less than that. I know that

119
00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:42,800
the idea that the universe is eternal is more difficult to deny when

120
00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:47,920
I can't remember the guy's first name, but when Hubble saw the Doppler shift

121
00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:56,240
and then looked at the number of stars which have the red shift, therefore,

122
00:15:57,280 --> 00:16:00,080
oh yeah, it's just to any of our listeners who haven't heard of this before,

123
00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:04,560
the Doppler effect is the change in wavelength when a body that is

124
00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:11,920
emitting light is moving away at a certain speed, it changes the wavelength of the light that the

125
00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:19,920
object is emitting. Because so many stars in the night sky seem to be producing a different

126
00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:26,000
wavelength of light to what we would expect them to be, it is believed that they are

127
00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:34,320
moving away and their speed is changing. So, it's a very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very

128
00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:40,320
very fast speed is often calculated by a lot of people who are far more smarter than me.

129
00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:49,040
But since Hubble has been able to show fairly categorically that the universe is expanding,

130
00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:55,120
that seems to point towards the Big Bang Theory, or originally as it was called the Cosmic Egg

131
00:16:55,120 --> 00:17:04,960
the idea that the universe had a point of creation. And because of this and because of a lot of other

132
00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:17,600
constants and details in nature, a lot of people look at the world and go,

133
00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:24,800
huh, if things were just off, just by the tiniest amount, it would be impossible for life to exist

134
00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:36,320
as it does. I also have a couple of problems with this theory, but I'll tell you what, I'll bring

135
00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:41,040
those up in a little while as I realise I'm already talking too much.

136
00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:43,840
I've got a counter argument for that final point.

137
00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:44,560
Brilliant.

138
00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:52,800
Because I don't believe that, I personally don't believe that

139
00:17:54,320 --> 00:18:00,160
everything's so perfect just to sustain life. I believe that life will find a way in whatever

140
00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:00,960
circumstance.

141
00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:08,160
Ah, like, well, for lack of a better way of putting it, like, you know what, I'm sorry, mate,

142
00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:11,760
this isn't supposed to sound trite, but the Jurassic Park quote, life finds a way.

143
00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:19,760
No, exactly that. It is that, right? So, I mean, there's video, look up on YouTube, right,

144
00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:28,080
there's videos where they put, like, pond water in a jar, no oxygen, seal it up, and it ends up

145
00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:35,840
with its own ecosystem. In your head, you're like, okay, there's no way of replenishing resources

146
00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:43,840
which are being consumed, but life finds a way of making it work within that environment.

147
00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:53,520
Yeah. I have no doubt that if you go to Pluto, for example, you'll find bacteria that is

148
00:18:53,520 --> 00:19:01,520
surviving out on Pluto. You go to Mercury, you'll find bacteria that is thriving in that

149
00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:11,680
environment. Because despite what we conceive as sustainable for life, it's sustainable for the

150
00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:18,640
life that we understand, or that we've observed. And if we were to go into those environments, we

151
00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:24,720
wouldn't be sustainable. That's fair, that's fair. That's an argument that you're not going to be

152
00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:25,520
able to counter that.

153
00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:36,560
Yeah, to be fair, no, you're absolutely right. If I go to Mercury, without outside of the

154
00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:39,600
spacesuit, I am dead. Very quickly.

155
00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:44,000
There are things that exist on this planet, which would exist in environments that you couldn't.

156
00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:53,040
So, even here, like you think about a cockroach, if a nuclear blast happened,

157
00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:56,160
and there was a radioactive fallout, cockroaches would be fine.

158
00:19:57,520 --> 00:20:01,360
Apparently the rats will as well, but cockroaches have a higher tolerance.

159
00:20:01,360 --> 00:20:01,840
Yeah.

160
00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:13,680
Yeah. And if that's not an example for how there's always a means for life to make its way,

161
00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:20,400
then you stop looking at it like, oh, it's the perfect scenario, and think about it more along

162
00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:29,520
the lines of, this is an abundance of life within this specific set of circumstances.

163
00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:34,880
But if we were observing a different set of circumstances, we would be observing a different

164
00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:45,920
abundance of life. And it might just be observable in a different way. It wouldn't necessarily be

165
00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:53,040
humans walking around or apes swinging from trees and stuff like that. But it's a bit vague,

166
00:20:53,040 --> 00:21:00,560
and I understand that life is just, the thing that people misconceive is that they think of life as

167
00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:17,840
us. But life is just life forms of some description, even bacteria, and everything begun with bacteria,

168
00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:26,800
even where we are. It all began with that. So, the existence of bacteria shows the ability

169
00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:31,680
for life to exist. And if everything that exists within this little Goldilocks belt that we're in

170
00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:40,160
now has built from bacteria, the foundation was designed, in inverted commas, designed in this

171
00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:48,400
realm, and built up from within that, and therefore exists within that, and couldn't exist anywhere

172
00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:54,720
else. I feel like I've lost my mind.

173
00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:57,040
I feel like I've lost you.

174
00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:02,480
No, no, no, I think I know what you're saying. Like, if we did...

175
00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:08,080
It's interesting that when...

176
00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:19,520
Right, okay, so one of my things is, I don't know, which is when I don't know if the creation

177
00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:25,680
story is simply allegory. A lot of the time I think there is just allegory because there are...

178
00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:40,000
Like, I can't argue against micro evolution. When it comes to like germs and single celled

179
00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:51,040
organisms, what really surprises me is that there is a huge precursor to even single celled

180
00:22:51,040 --> 00:23:00,320
organisms. And you're absolutely right, bacteria can exist in a huge number of places. I honestly,

181
00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:08,400
I will be surprised if it exists on Pluto or if it exists on Mercury, but by no means, I'm not

182
00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:16,320
going to say that it doesn't. And I'd bet a fiver on it, I wouldn't bet good money. You know what

183
00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:26,560
I mean? Like, I'm not going to say, oh, if there is, I'll do this ridiculous thing, or I'll give

184
00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:32,560
you this thing which is going to cost me several years of my life working away in order to be able

185
00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:42,640
to do. Like, it's interesting for me that the chemical components to produce life, like carbon

186
00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:55,680
based life, you're right, they are abundant in our solar system, but there are still like constants,

187
00:23:55,680 --> 00:24:00,320
then this is the annoying thing, and this is where I have to just put my hands up and say

188
00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:06,560
ignorance and please just bear with me. There are constants, there are chemical constants, energy

189
00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:16,000
constants, which make even the existence of that life possible. And those constants, even in and of

190
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:22,560
themselves, are very, very specific and they are throughout the universe. And I guess that's

191
00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:29,280
something which some people say points towards intelligent design, whereas other people,

192
00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:36,640
say, well it is that way, so it shouldn't surprise us that it is what we observe. Like, kind of just

193
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:42,240
a bit of a cyclical argument when it's just like... It's the same argument observed from the other

194
00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:51,200
side, right? Yes. So you say that complexity is what denotes intelligence, you know, intelligent

195
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:59,200
design. However, the counter arguments of that is that natural process and system of life,

196
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:06,400
survival and a fittest kind of theology, is what results with that complexity, because that

197
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:13,760
complexity is necessary for survival in this reality, I suppose, for lack of a better term.

198
00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:24,560
On this planet, in order for our eye to work the way that our eye works, it's evolved through many

199
00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:30,320
different trial and errors into the form that we see. Or we... Not necessarily, that's a bad term,

200
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:37,120
let's not use see when we're talking about eye. You get the idea. Whereas, the counter argument

201
00:25:37,120 --> 00:25:49,920
to that is that the eye is such a complex biological invention, that it seems impossible that that

202
00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:59,360
would happen out of natural evolution. It's also interesting that people have...

203
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:06,880
People again have disagreed and used the eye as evidence for both sides of the argument.

204
00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:13,840
Yeah. When it comes to a lot of people think that the eye generally is badly designed

205
00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:22,800
because of the way that the nerve ending is, means that every eye has a blind spot in it,

206
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:30,160
that just the brain glosses over and every single retina sees the world upside down,

207
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:38,160
which then requires a neural... Which then the image is flipped in the brain, you know?

208
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:44,720
Yeah. And this is where you start to get towards the realm of...

209
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:52,800
Almost like your brain being a computer.

210
00:26:54,960 --> 00:27:04,080
And this is kind of where I walk you down the road of where I sit in my thinking.

211
00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:10,240
Great. Let's go for it. I don't think that...

212
00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:20,560
I don't think it's beyond comprehension to believe in intelligent design.

213
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:32,160
Let's start from the beginning here. Okay. Everything, every faith has got a level of

214
00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:43,040
history that denotes that there was a creation of intelligence. And the more that you look into

215
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:53,280
things like this, you start to question... You start to question what's outside of the bubble?

216
00:27:53,280 --> 00:28:04,560
What's outside of reality? And is reality is what we see, what we experience real?

217
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:13,760
Or is it just exactly that? It's just experience? If... And like, bear with me here, both listeners

218
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:18,000
and yourself, just bear with me because I am going somewhere. So hold fire.

219
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:23,600
No, no, no. I talk way too much. You take the mic, you do what you've got to do.

220
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:33,600
Right. So think about it like this, right? Reality is consciousness. Consciousness is intelligent.

221
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:46,560
And intelligence is that the entity of consciousness as one organism, as one entity,

222
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:53,360
knows everything. And if you think about it outside of the sphere of reality, it exists

223
00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:58,720
in a state of all-knowing omnipotence, much the same way as we talk about God.

224
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:06,560
In a state of omnipotence, omniscience, omnipresence, all the omnis.

225
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:17,520
All the omnis. But on its own, outside of this entity, its experience, it is just

226
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:26,080
a library full of books with all the answers. And it's meaningless.

227
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:32,240
To have all that intelligence, all of the answers, and yet no way of really

228
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:46,480
experiencing what that means, it's meaningless. Thus, reality. Reality is a means for that intelligence

229
00:29:46,480 --> 00:30:03,360
to, is a means for intelligence to experience through everything, through everything that it knows,

230
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:10,880
in billions of different, just think about it in terms of humanity. There are billions of humans

231
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:17,360
on the planet, and each one of them lives a different experience. If consciousness exists

232
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:27,840
within each of those beings, and experiences the rules that it knows outside of the entity of reality,

233
00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:34,960
from a completely different perspective, then it gives all of those answers, all of that reality

234
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:46,400
to the meaning. No, it's probably the wrong thing to say. I think, well, actually, I don't think I

235
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:53,520
know. My headset just broke about two minutes into that. So I've just had to take my headset

236
00:30:53,520 --> 00:31:01,760
off and put you on speaker, but I have missed some of that. So I'm really sorry listeners.

237
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:06,640
I'll give you the, I'll give you the cliff notes. Let's do the cliff notes, just to get you back up

238
00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:17,920
to speed. Thank you. So I did this, because it's a really complex thing to explain, I prepared.

239
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:24,000
So all existence, including life, humanity, and every form of reality, originates from a singular

240
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:30,560
entity driven in a desire to experience. This entity exists beyond the bounds of reality,

241
00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:35,840
as we know it, possessing complete knowledge and understanding. However, within this infinite

242
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:42,320
knowledge, there's no questions, only the curiosity of how these truths manifest and interrelate across

243
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:48,960
countless scenarios. Consciousness then is the mechanism through which the entity explores

244
00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:55,840
those relationships, experiencing its knowledge in action across limitless spectrum of possibilities.

245
00:31:55,840 --> 00:32:00,000
Through this existence itself becomes an act of exploration and understanding.

246
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:03,120
That's incredible.

247
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:04,720
That's where I sit.

248
00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:12,960
Oh, right. I'm going to need to try and just get my head around that. Give me a second.

249
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:23,760
Imagine there's an infinite library that contains every book ever written and every book that could

250
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:28,160
ever be written. And inside this library, all the answers to every question exist.

251
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:33,360
Here's the thing, simply having the answers isn't the same as understanding what they mean.

252
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:42,400
Yes, well, absolutely. You've got different, there's a difference between teaching somebody

253
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:48,800
the times tables and then having someone being able to actually,

254
00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:54,640
I don't know, you can, okay, so you can teach a parrot to say a phrase,

255
00:32:55,600 --> 00:33:01,920
but they might not necessarily understand that. They might not understand what they're saying.

256
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:03,200
Yeah, they're just making the sound.

257
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:04,640
Yeah.

258
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:08,960
Yeah. They wouldn't be able to write a Shakespearean play.

259
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:12,480
Just because you've taught them language.

260
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:15,040
Yeah, that's it.

261
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:22,400
So imagine that library that we were just talking about is alive. It's curious and it wants to feel

262
00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:28,560
what it knows. It decides to write stories and step into them, becoming the characters living

263
00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:33,120
through the plot and experiencing the emotions, challenges and outcomes. In doing so, it transforms

264
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:45,920
abstract knowledge into real lived experience.

265
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:51,040
That's interesting. So I'm just making sure I'm understanding you here because I think that

266
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:57,920
I might not be, although I will admit that that was incredibly succinctly and eloquently put.

267
00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:02,320
But I'm just going to say what I think you're saying and then hopefully,

268
00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:05,760
either you can dumb it down or you can re-explain it because

269
00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:13,200
I'm hoping that I'm not the only one or the only one who's maybe misunderstanding you here

270
00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:21,200
and simply what I mean by that is, listeners, if you understood perfectly what Nick said the first

271
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:31,280
time, then I apologize. Okay, so are you saying that reality is just the interface of consciousnesses

272
00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:40,000
interacting with each other, trying to gain a better understanding of their own being and of

273
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:43,920
each other's being or no, there's more to it than that. There's more to it than that.

274
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:50,480
They're only singular entities when they're able to observe each other in the means that you and

275
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:56,240
I observe each other. However, outside of this reality, it's the same thing.

276
00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:06,000
Consciousness is the one that is able to observe each other.

277
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:19,360
Consciousness is the one thing. Let's think about it in terms of Christianity, right?

278
00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:25,440
You get taught in Christianity that God is in everything.

279
00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:34,640
To a point, yeah. It's not pure pantheism because he's also transcendent and exists outside of that.

280
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:47,520
Exactly. And it does. Consciousness is existence. What wording did I use here?

281
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:57,360
So back in the library, that's not empty just because conscious, because you and I exist,

282
00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:01,920
because consciousness is experiencing through our reality. The library is still open.

283
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:07,280
Yeah. And we take what experiences we've learned and go back to the library.

284
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:17,120
Yeah. Yeah. When we die, we go back to being that one consciousness outside of,

285
00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:26,560
that one entity outside of reality. Yeah. But when we become

286
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:35,600
you, me, the dog, whoever, whatever, it's a means for consciousness to experience

287
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:42,960
some of the answers that it had back in the library from that perspective,

288
00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:46,240
giving the answers real meaning.

289
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:50,800
Okay.

290
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:56,320
Yeah, that's gone, this has gone a lot more metaphysical than a...

291
00:36:57,040 --> 00:37:05,440
Well, this is the problem with why I can't necessarily stop at any one faith,

292
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:15,040
because I think there's truth in so much faith. And there's so much similarity between so many

293
00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:22,080
different faiths. And I'm not about to say, I'm not, I'm certainly not saying any of them are wrong,

294
00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:32,000
by any means. In fact, they're probably all right in their own way. But it's, it's all, it's also

295
00:37:34,240 --> 00:37:36,640
people that live outside of faith are also correct.

296
00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:46,720
And intelligence itself, design, whatever you want to call it, it's all relative, it doesn't matter.

297
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:52,480
Oh, mate, my brain is just completely falling out of my head.

298
00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:55,520
Yeah, this is what I was worried about, I think,

299
00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:58,240
because I was thinking about the fact that I was going to be a

300
00:37:58,240 --> 00:38:08,760
human

301
00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:22,440
engineer and I was thinking about the fact that I was not able to create object realism for lags in

302
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:27,040
Be having these conversations because they do they do try and stretch you.

303
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:32,760
Yeah, now this is this is the this is the interesting thing though and I think this is why.

304
00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:43,120
I'm metaphysical views like some of the ones that you've expressed, although if my terminology is wrong I apologize but.

305
00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:46,960
This is why they go somewhat against.

306
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:53,120
Science normally is that because a lot of people believe.

307
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:57,600
Truth or object truth and object truth.

308
00:38:57,600 --> 00:39:05,840
By object I mean absolute by object I've mean by objective and therefore what is what is real and what is definitive.

309
00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:10,480
A lot of people believe that to be.

310
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:14,720
Singular whereas.

311
00:39:14,720 --> 00:39:23,920
The view the view that you express seems to be from my experience and from my hearing at least.

312
00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:30,480
What you're saying is simply is that it's not that truth is not that simple.

313
00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:41,000
Yeah, or that reality is not that simple which means I think we have gotten somewhat off topic, but I still believe that this is all great and this is all good.

314
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:49,440
Content because this is exactly the sort of thing that I wanted to be talking about with you in this podcast because you.

315
00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:54,080
You do have to wonder like although.

316
00:39:54,080 --> 00:40:00,880
Something may objectively exist, but our subjective experience of each thing is going to be different.

317
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:08,040
And it's difficult to say whose experience of that object is even more real.

318
00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:11,760
And whose view.

319
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:17,320
Of that object is more objective or true.

320
00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:22,160
I do believe in.

321
00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:27,360
Objectivity and I do believe in.

322
00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:31,720
The truth being somewhat singular.

323
00:40:31,720 --> 00:40:37,280
But what I will admit is that I know that that view in and of itself.

324
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:41,320
Is is derisive.

325
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:45,920
And this is the real kicker is I also know.

326
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:49,800
That there's more to it than that like.

327
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:55,240
What is is but at the same time.

328
00:40:55,240 --> 00:40:59,640
The how we all experience the what.

329
00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:03,760
Is is colored by our own.

330
00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:10,760
Our own consciousness and I don't I don't I though in my case I know that that.

331
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:15,040
Undermines the objectivity I can't see that being.

332
00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:19,720
I or at least I'm very much hope it's not the same for everybody else.

333
00:41:19,720 --> 00:41:25,080
You know or like or is it together as we view the objective.

334
00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:32,200
And come to agreements on the objective do we go become closer to truth simply by hearing.

335
00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:35,840
And understanding the correlation the sorry the cop.

336
00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:41,720
The color rations of other people's so objective reality of truth.

337
00:41:41,720 --> 00:41:45,080
Or of existence I should say.

338
00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:47,200
I think it.

339
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:51,960
Use use the two slit experiment for example here.

340
00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:57,760
And I don't know if you've heard of what the they call it a double split double slit experiment.

341
00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:03,600
And it though whether electrons or a wave or a particle and it's like absolutely.

342
00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:06,480
The weather that being observed or yeah yeah.

343
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:10,360
So it's almost like you say.

344
00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:12,840
It's correct.

345
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:16,800
No matter the observer you're right.

346
00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:23,400
Yeah whether it be the electrical electrical eye looking at it and it's the.

347
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:29,360
Electronic wave pattern that's on the has been.

348
00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:35,040
After the only observation sheet in the back of the room or whether it's the human eye

349
00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:38,440
that's looking at it and you're getting that sporadic random pattern that you'd expect

350
00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:42,160
to see from so just I want to bring people up to speed just so that they're aware of

351
00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:45,280
what the double split double slit experiment was.

352
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:52,440
It was an experiment conducted by scientists where they fired electrons through two slits

353
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:59,640
and then observed how that pattern presented on a.

354
00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:05,200
Readable sheet at the back of the room and you'd expect from if electrons are being fired

355
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:14,240
randomly through two slits that they would eventually form two lines but that those lines

356
00:43:14,240 --> 00:43:25,400
would form in quite a random pattern because based on what we think should be happening

357
00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:34,320
as humans and what they found was when they observed it through a camera it.

358
00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:40,320
Displayed one pattern like a wave pattern against the wall when it was observed by human

359
00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:46,480
eyes it got that random pattern that you would expect to see from.

360
00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:51,800
Random exchange like that and there was another another circumstance as well which I can't

361
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:57,720
remember when when they didn't observe it at all it just.

362
00:43:57,720 --> 00:44:04,840
I did something else I can't remember exactly but it's almost like the electron was aware

363
00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:09,320
of what.

364
00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:14,800
Was watching it even to a point where and this is where it gets really messed up because

365
00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:23,560
what they did was they changed the observer halfway through the test to see if as the

366
00:44:23,560 --> 00:44:27,000
particles were traveling through the air whether or not they'd see the end of one pattern

367
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:31,800
in the start of the next one and but what they what happened was it switched instantly

368
00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:35,720
so even the pattern even the particles that have traveled through this little ready seemed

369
00:44:35,720 --> 00:44:47,440
to go back in time and change their pattern based on what was observing their impact so.

370
00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:55,240
The as I said it was basically like saying is intelligent design a thing well yes but

371
00:44:55,240 --> 00:45:00,800
is intelligent design not a thing well yes and in the same it's like Schrodinger's

372
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:06,400
cat right like a superposition.

373
00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:10,960
And I think that's where you'll always get to in any kind of argument like that is there's

374
00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:18,400
so many it's such a superposition to be in and because it's completely dependent on the

375
00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:21,400
observer.

376
00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:30,880
Yeah okay and like literally it although it's interesting though that we talk about the

377
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:35,200
difference of things being observed I know that the calculations of the early big bang

378
00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:40,840
require there to be a observer of some kind.

379
00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:45,600
In order for things to have worked out as they do but then again I haven't done my research

380
00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:53,840
freshly enough into that in order to quote a direct source which is annoying but I understand

381
00:45:53,840 --> 00:46:00,440
what you're saying is that people will observe the same well in okay one one angle of what

382
00:46:00,440 --> 00:46:05,400
you're saying this multiple angles of saying no I'm not going to pretend to have grasped

383
00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:14,560
all of them one of the ones that I have grasped is that people will observe the same thing

384
00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:25,680
and see and what they will interpret is what they want to see but also what is there is

385
00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:29,120
in some ways is changed by their interpretation.

386
00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:31,160
Yes.

387
00:46:31,160 --> 00:46:32,920
But to a point at least.

388
00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:38,560
Yeah like it fits the pattern that they expect to see.

389
00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:39,560
Yeah.

390
00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:50,160
Which is where I was going with that double split experiment analogy.

391
00:46:50,160 --> 00:46:57,160
It caters for what's observing it and what the expectation is and like if you think about

392
00:46:57,160 --> 00:47:08,300
the big bang they're basing their calculations off of regressing calculations that they've

393
00:47:08,300 --> 00:47:11,760
made within the known universe right.

394
00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:12,760
Yeah.

395
00:47:12,760 --> 00:47:19,160
They make observations on how things are moving and how they're rotating and what speed they're

396
00:47:19,160 --> 00:47:22,640
traveling and how fast they're slowing down and things like that and if they're speeding

397
00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:28,120
x y z you know and then they reverse it they go backwards and they go well if we go back

398
00:47:28,120 --> 00:47:33,800
far enough then everything comes out of this one point and that's how they came up with

399
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:39,880
the concept of the big bang.

400
00:47:39,880 --> 00:47:49,040
But what's to say there was nothing that intervened throughout that process that changed the pattern

401
00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:50,880
there's no way to know is there.

402
00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:57,640
So all that you've really got is a theoretical circumstance.

403
00:47:57,640 --> 00:48:04,280
No that's it.

404
00:48:04,280 --> 00:48:09,800
That's it.

405
00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:20,320
It's frustrating that for me you can look at a million and one facts in science but

406
00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:29,640
when it does come to intelligent design or not it for me is more of a philosophical thing

407
00:48:29,640 --> 00:48:38,080
but what annoys me on is that both sides from both sides of the argument simply accuse the

408
00:48:38,080 --> 00:48:50,280
other of pseudoscience or of bad science and it gets this frustrates me because I'm

409
00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:57,800
I'm too definite in my words and thinking processes which is weird because that's a

410
00:48:57,800 --> 00:49:05,720
complete juxtaposition of how I feel which is a mess of all things all the time but like

411
00:49:05,720 --> 00:49:13,840
I prefer it when it's like one person being right and one person being wrong and not both

412
00:49:13,840 --> 00:49:27,000
people having legitimate criticism of the other one's methodology but the fact that

413
00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:33,800
both of their both the fact that both arguments criticism of the other one appear from an

414
00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:40,700
outsider's point of view to be true simply means that once again I'm left in a place

415
00:49:40,700 --> 00:49:50,760
of confusion and somewhat agnosticism in that both sides of the argument seem to somewhat

416
00:49:50,760 --> 00:50:00,480
be true like just to go back to intelligent design quickly one of its one of its you know

417
00:50:00,480 --> 00:50:08,200
what like this is the thing as well because I think it is a it's a way of thinking that

418
00:50:08,200 --> 00:50:15,840
I think it is adopted by a lot more people than its criticizers would want to admit and

419
00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:23,520
a lot less people people than its proponents would want to say like I think it's one of

420
00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:30,220
those things where it seems there seems to be a massive gray area of it but um intelligent

421
00:50:30,220 --> 00:50:39,320
design has a organization behind it which is kind of pushing some of it forward which

422
00:50:39,320 --> 00:50:48,700
is the center for science and culture which is part of the discovery institute and is

423
00:50:48,700 --> 00:50:59,960
set in Seattle in Washington a major proponent of it is a gentleman called well Dr. Jonathan

424
00:50:59,960 --> 00:51:06,480
Wells I say that the reason why I include a doctor in his title is because he has two

425
00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:15,840
PhDs and he is both a genuine religious person and a genuine scientist doesn't necessarily

426
00:51:15,840 --> 00:51:22,320
mean everything that he says is correct but it he's it's not like he's just a know-nothing

427
00:51:22,320 --> 00:51:33,880
who's coming out of this with an agenda and it's just um it's frustrating that when I

428
00:51:33,880 --> 00:51:40,040
look a little bit at um so Jonathan Wells his there's an interview in the book that

429
00:51:40,040 --> 00:51:47,320
I read there's an interview between Lee Strobel and Jonathan Wells and the things that some

430
00:51:47,320 --> 00:51:56,600
of the things that Jonathan Wells says are entirely valid when it comes to um what makes

431
00:51:56,600 --> 00:52:07,920
good science and what doesn't and having a a premise or a self-proving not self-proving

432
00:52:07,920 --> 00:52:14,640
a hypothesis which doesn't or saying that a hypothesis requires no proof is bad science

433
00:52:14,640 --> 00:52:19,360
and therefore some of the elements of some of the stuff that is put forward in evolution

434
00:52:19,360 --> 00:52:26,480
is bad science but then it's interesting that um some of the scientists that he quotes

435
00:52:26,480 --> 00:52:33,600
in his own work which was called Icons of Evolution we'll probably do a um we'll probably

436
00:52:33,600 --> 00:52:38,900
do an episode on this at a later point uh but a number of scientists who are included

437
00:52:38,900 --> 00:52:44,720
in that work have come forward and said look you've misquoted us it's just it's annoying

438
00:52:44,720 --> 00:52:56,080
to me that so much of this seems uh seems messy and it does it frustrates me that um

439
00:52:56,080 --> 00:53:03,440
when I have spoken to some real scientists some of them have seen intelligent design

440
00:53:03,440 --> 00:53:09,120
as valid and some of them have seen it as absolutely preposterous and it's difficult

441
00:53:09,120 --> 00:53:17,160
for me to to know which way the coin falls you know yeah I mean Elon Musk has a theory

442
00:53:17,160 --> 00:53:33,800
that um we are either in a simulation or we are going to create a simulation that um will

443
00:53:33,800 --> 00:53:42,320
be almost indistinguishable from our reality and therefore we basically create essentially

444
00:53:42,320 --> 00:53:50,800
what is what he theorizes is that um life creates so you think about yourself as a if

445
00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:59,400
you if you think about your life as your the main character in a computer game and um the

446
00:53:59,400 --> 00:54:06,280
world that you live in is the um platform in which you're playing your video game right

447
00:54:06,280 --> 00:54:12,840
and then within that you're going to like real humans will eventually create artificial

448
00:54:12,840 --> 00:54:22,080
intelligence within a computer in its own observable uh universe and that will develop

449
00:54:22,080 --> 00:54:29,080
its own intelligence over time and eventually create its own intelligence within that dimension

450
00:54:29,080 --> 00:54:39,640
um and he said he speculates that um there's probably more of an 80 chance that we are

451
00:54:39,640 --> 00:54:48,280
in a simulation of sorts um rather than 20 percent and around 20 chance that we're actually

452
00:54:48,280 --> 00:54:54,280
living a physical reality which i think is a really twisted thing but it's also it also

453
00:54:54,280 --> 00:54:59,440
shows the the level of complexity in the way that people think about intelligent design

454
00:54:59,440 --> 00:55:10,720
so have you heard much of the simulation theory no no um yeah please uh yeah elaborate a little

455
00:55:10,720 --> 00:55:16,880
bit i think simulation theory is exactly what i just explained it's it's uh you're essentially

456
00:55:16,880 --> 00:55:25,040
in the matrix um and as laughable as that might sound um it's it feeds into that kind

457
00:55:25,040 --> 00:55:32,160
of intelligent design mentality because everything is so perfect um and everything's so consistent

458
00:55:32,160 --> 00:55:41,920
and um yet perfectly inconsistent at the same time does that make sense um and intelligence

459
00:55:41,920 --> 00:55:48,960
is allowed to develop in the way that we have um and now if you think about the fact that

460
00:55:48,960 --> 00:55:57,280
we are creating intelligence um in the way that we are we're at the point where we can

461
00:55:57,280 --> 00:56:06,400
essentially create an intelligence that will eventually one day be smarter than us um almost

462
00:56:06,400 --> 00:56:16,160
it almost justifies the theory does that make sense yeah yeah because because you could

463
00:56:16,160 --> 00:56:22,960
create another simulation theory within the simulation theory the inception of simulation

464
00:56:22,960 --> 00:56:35,920
theories all right okay yeah no i see that that's interesting

465
00:56:35,920 --> 00:56:43,640
as well that um some people look at the fine-tunedness of nature and go that a god must exist and

466
00:56:43,640 --> 00:56:50,720
some people look at the fine-tunedness of nature and go well this can't be real yeah

467
00:56:50,720 --> 00:56:58,280
yeah although simulation if it's a simulation real and unreal is like relative so i don't

468
00:56:58,280 --> 00:57:04,920
think he'd necessarily say that it was unreal the simulator yeah sorry that was an oversimplification

469
00:57:04,920 --> 00:57:14,440
on my part yeah no i know you mean um not material would probably be um then how far

470
00:57:14,440 --> 00:57:21,200
backwards would you have to go i'm i'm i'm uh reminded of an episode of uh black mirror

471
00:57:21,200 --> 00:57:26,120
have you ever seen black mirror i've seen a couple of episodes i will not pretend to

472
00:57:26,120 --> 00:57:34,600
say that i've seen all of them have you seen joni is awful um

473
00:57:34,600 --> 00:57:41,460
so what happens in that episode so in this episode jone goes to work um has a horrible

474
00:57:41,460 --> 00:57:49,120
day sees her ex-boyfriend ends up kissing him goes home to her fiance sits down after

475
00:57:49,120 --> 00:57:57,140
stressing about how terrible her day was turns on stream berry which is like the um black

476
00:57:57,140 --> 00:58:06,640
mirror version of netflix and the tv show jone is awful is on greenberry and she watches

477
00:58:06,640 --> 00:58:16,160
the episode and it's her day played out again on tv and she's like stuff what is this how

478
00:58:16,160 --> 00:58:20,960
has this happened like why is my life being shown on there and causes all kinds of crazy

479
00:58:20,960 --> 00:58:27,680
drama and um she ends up losing her job because of it she ends up going completely like bonkers

480
00:58:27,680 --> 00:58:38,640
because um stream berry is playing her t her life like it's tv show um but then the more

481
00:58:38,640 --> 00:58:47,760
you go into it you find out that actually it's all ai written and she's actually the

482
00:58:47,760 --> 00:58:55,600
third inception of the real jone whose life has been written by stream berry because obviously

483
00:58:55,600 --> 00:59:01,240
jone originally the original jone has this happen and stream berry uses ai to create

484
00:59:01,240 --> 00:59:09,200
this tv show but then within that within that within within that stream tv show reality

485
00:59:09,200 --> 00:59:16,880
there's also a tv show of jone and how jone interacts with that tv show and within so

486
00:59:16,880 --> 00:59:21,600
on so forth yeah and she's the one that we're actually watching is like the third inception

487
00:59:21,600 --> 00:59:27,520
of that and there's like further with different celebrities it's hilarious um it's a really

488
00:59:27,520 --> 00:59:34,280
twisted way of looking at it but it um if nothing else it told me always read the small

489
00:59:34,280 --> 00:59:41,840
print um but um it really gets your head ticking as well which is i think absolutely what um

490
00:59:41,840 --> 00:59:47,320
the writer i forget his name now of black mirror was going for my god that guy's a genius

491
00:59:47,320 --> 00:59:55,200
is it charlie brooker yeah that's the one that's the one do they have multiple other

492
00:59:55,200 --> 00:59:59,920
aren't there multiple writers yeah no mainly it's charlie brooker though isn't it is his

493
00:59:59,920 --> 01:00:08,960
his um baby but yeah i mean that it's hilarious but that's a good representation of of simulation

494
01:00:08,960 --> 01:00:19,440
theory you get a chance to watch it watch it it's a great episode she goes nuts she

495
01:00:19,440 --> 01:00:28,800
smashes stuff up yeah charlton brooker yeah charlton brooker brilliant okay well i think

496
01:00:28,800 --> 01:00:33,560
we've covered a good amount of um a good amount of uh philosophy a good amount of our own

497
01:00:33,560 --> 01:00:44,480
um our own views um yeah thank you very much for uh for listening listeners um we'll try

498
01:00:44,480 --> 01:00:51,720
and uh yeah we'll we'll come back to some of these points at another time maybe we'll

499
01:00:51,720 --> 01:00:58,280
cover a slightly lighter topic in the next one yeah yeah you know you know what yes but

500
01:00:58,280 --> 01:01:02,440
i think it's good to do a heavy one every once in a while absolutely i reckon we will

501
01:01:02,440 --> 01:01:09,840
come back to this absolutely i really enjoyed that um sorry for um every glazed eye and

502
01:01:09,840 --> 01:01:18,800
every um far look and distant eyes um that came out of people's faces whilst i was talking

503
01:01:18,800 --> 01:01:25,200
um it's why i don't generally discuss my um beliefs but that's how i feel and everybody's

504
01:01:25,200 --> 01:01:32,880
everybody's valid to feel whoever they want which is what we always say in these podcasts

505
01:01:32,880 --> 01:01:35,760
um you had a little taste of mine feel free to share yours remember there's a reddit you

506
01:01:35,760 --> 01:01:40,320
can share your perspectives on uh there they would have been voiced at the beginning of

507
01:01:40,320 --> 01:01:47,280
the podcast so feel free to go there and give your perspective all right all right thanks

508
01:01:47,280 --> 01:02:01,360
again listeners have a good night thank you

509
01:02:17,280 --> 01:02:34,160
release