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Hi, Nick here from Pods with Nick and James. Just a quick one before we get into this podcast.

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I want to say a massive thank you for the support that we've received since starting these podcasts.

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We thoroughly enjoy it and we look forward to creating more.

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If you want to have your say on any topics that we've discussed or suggest future topics,

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you can do so at www.reddit.com slash r slash nickandjamespods

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and if you want to support us you can do so from as little as £1 a month

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and you can do that at www.patreon.com slash Pods with Nick and James.

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Anyway, back to the podcast.

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Hello and welcome back to Pods with Nick and James. I am Nick and this is James.

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Hi there.

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Today we're joined by a lifelong friend of mine called Puds. Say hi Puds.

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Puds.

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Very good.

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And today I decided that we would cover a topic which everybody knew we would get to eventually,

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but I thought we might as well cover it now.

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New year, new us, let's have a go.

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It's references to extraterrestrials throughout history.

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Have you guys got any ideas of any kind of references that might come up during this conversation?

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James?

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I have several ideas. Like we've spoken a little bit in the past.

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I know that although it's not seen as many as a historical account and with many good reasons,

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but I won't go into that. I know in the Bible, I can't remember which book it is,

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which is really annoying me because the Book of Isaiah seems to be describing a spaceship

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and I know that there are, you know what, I'm not going to do too many spoilers.

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I know there's a couple of things we've spoken about to do with, I think it's in Hinduism or in...

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Yeah.

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...just Indian folklore. But other than that, I'm not too certain.

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I just know that a lot of people have seen a lot of things throughout history and it is recorded.

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Yeah. Pards anything?

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I find it interesting, the whole DNA manipulation, the stories of the earliest religions,

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like the Sumerians talking about the Anunnaki. That's interesting to me at the moment.

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Yeah, yeah. That's something that I'll come to a bit later.

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I've got a bit of story time with Nick a bit later and we'll cover that.

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But yeah, obviously James, you mentioned references throughout the Bible.

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I think one of the most famous authors to do with references throughout the Bible was Eric von Daniken,

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who wrote the book Chariots of the Gods.

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He was raised a Catholic and decided through his interpretation of the Bible

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that there was obviously like alien interventions.

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For example, there are mentions, numerous mentions as the book titles of Chariots of the Gods,

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implying obviously Chariots of Fire and how obviously a vehicle that would be entering the atmosphere

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that early would be seen, or a vehicle that would be seen that early in history

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would be labeled by the only thing that was known, the most likely thing that was known as a chariot.

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And anything that comes through the atmosphere would burn up, therefore might be titled a chariot of fire.

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And that's kind of where he was going with that.

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There's also, he references watches from the book of Daniel as aliens.

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The watches, as most people interpret them, are just aliens, fallen angels.

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No, are just fallen angels, whereas Eric von Daniken quite strongly believes that they are aliens.

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Any thoughts on that, guys?

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It's interesting.

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I mean, yeah, like to be fair, ancient people would, like their only vehicle was either a boat or a chariot.

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And, you know, what we call spaceships, they might very well call a chariot.

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It's just kind of a language thing, like with the Russians calling their earliest, well, their astronauts cosmonauts.

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Astro meaning star, cosmo meaning cosmos. It's the same fecking thing, but just with different language.

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Yeah, there's an interesting symmetry to what I mentioned earlier, the Anunnaki mixing, changing with the DNA, the primates there to make humans.

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Yeah, so, and in the Eric von Daniken thing you were saying about the watches, it's interesting in the Bible,

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it mentions the sons of God mating with the daughters of man, and that could easily be construed as some alien interference.

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Yeah, so the Bible's got many references of angels and even God himself, which if looked from a different angle,

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would, could be perceived as aliens. Obviously, if you think of angels and God as highly intelligent beings,

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you could, you could see why, and a highly intelligent being appearing to the primordial back then, or the rudimentary human back then,

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they may be given almost a celestial or deity status.

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However, they also mention that we were supposed to live in naivety until we were tempted by the knowledge of the gods,

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in the message of the snake in the Garden of Eden.

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That's, that's interpreted now as the alien knowledge being passed on to humanity when we weren't supposed to have it.

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We were supposed to be naive beings that were under the control of the gods.

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That's the interpretation as far as Eric von Daniken's book goes anyway.

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And yeah, you're right, the mention of the, the breeding between the sons of, sons of God and the daughters of man creating the Nephilim,

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I believe they were labeled as in the Sumerian texts, which were essentially the giants of the Bible.

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It interests me that you've also got kind of, it's somewhat bastardized, but that's also used in the Diablo games, obviously,

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as kind of like what your hero is and what, what to explain why you're able to go up against ridiculous enemies and stuff.

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Yeah. Yeah.

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But what other, what other other than the ancient texts of the Bible, like Pudds, you mentioned about Sumerian texts.

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It was just thinking about what Nick was saying about us being docile up to a point.

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And that makes me think straight back to the Sumerians again, you know, how the gods or the aliens were interested in having us under their control.

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And it was, was it until one of these aliens or gods wanted us to be free that they started teaching us the knowledge that we would need to be able to stand on our own two feet.

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A lot of the stories seem to all say the same thing. I find that's very interesting, especially given the fact that Sumerian texts actually came before that of the Bible and the Hebrew texts.

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Yeah. Yeah. It's not the only holy book in history to have or holy books, holy scriptures to have mentions of or references of alien or extraterrestrial influence.

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You don't want to go there.

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For example, in the Hindu texts and the Hindu Sanskrit writings, there are references to vehicles, which James alluded to a bit earlier, called Vyamanas.

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Now, I don't know if you've seen these pictures, guys, but they look, they even date detailed diagrams of the construction of what can only be described as flying craft in ancient Hindu texts.

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Now blows my mind when I heard it and I looked it up and I read the read that read what I could have about about the text.

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It's absolutely incredible. But if you don't know listeners, go and have a look up pictures of Vyamanas and they are literally thousands of year old documents of these Hindu.

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Rocket kind of spaceship kind of looking things. Think about I suppose it kind of looks as Igorot kind of if a ziggurat could fly.

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If you have you seen the Hindu temples in India?

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So just to circle back to it, it is interesting like it was it was really interesting how the architecture was really similar to the Hindu temples. So it's a real what you're describing there.

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What's the name of them again? Because I know you did.

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Vyamanas.

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The Vyamanas were. Yeah, it's it's almost it's part Hindu temple part spaceship part for lack of a better way of saying it Laputa for anybody who's seen the Studio Ghibli film about a floating city.

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It's and then knowing that these the things that you showed me were drawings from a ancient book is.

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Well, it's do you look like temples in the sky? Yeah, it's literally temples in the sky and it's they the images do look like blue prints.

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I can't I can't say that they don't. It's yeah. Well, I don't know for a man like myself who does think he understands history.

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It was troubling and enlightening at the same time.

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Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean, I was I wasn't just that that I was blown away by but within the Hindu text is this.

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Stories obviously within all holy texts, their stories of great wars. Now the Hindu ones are quite interesting because they are stories of their like God like beings having wars in the sky.

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Wars in these kind of flying crafts above the earth above humans using weapons which was like nuclear weapons exactly they when they when they describe they brought they burn brighter than the sun and they have the power of a thousand thunderbolts and stuff.

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The impact it decays life and the area was unable to be inhabited for thousands of years after etc etc and all these kind of things. If you interpret it in a specific way, like they sound like kind of weapons of mass destruction kind of level stuff that we we have to deal with nowadays, you know.

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But they could also be interpreted as other things. I don't want to kind of push the fact that they are alien and alien weapons and whatever.

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Obviously the one thing that I don't want to do today is kind of say this is what I want to I believe in the address.

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I think all of this stuff is really interesting and kind of it's definitely worth hearing and definitely worth looking into even if you end up just going well, that's kind of interesting and then moving on from it.

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But yeah, some of the some of the wars that they had were incredible.

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I mean, I believe I believe Oppenheimer quoted the Bhagavad Gita in his post nuclear explosion speech. He he mentions a few people laughed a few people cried.

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He says I was reminded of the the text of the Bhagavad Gita where Vishnu was it Krishna? I can't remember and was talking to the the man he was he was traveling with and he was he took on his forearm form.

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He quoted I am I have now become death the destroyer of worlds. And that was the quote he used in his post nuclear explosion or nuclear test.

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Kind of alluding to the fact that oh my God, this might have been done before.

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And you know what? This is this is absolutely incredible.

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The kind of power won't say good, but definitely incredible. He kind of knew then the level of power that he'd created by creating the nuclear bomb.

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Oh, it's a statement.

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Huh?

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It was a perfect statement for the event.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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Yeah, it's very apt. It's it's why it's so well played or it's why it's so played and also does appear in pop culture, even in minor game references before the Oppenheimer film.

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Yeah, it's apt.

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Yeah. Obviously, it's not not really a reference to alien. I think I think this one's just a little bit interesting. It's another fact I just want to throw out there.

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And you know, at Mecca, there is the the Kaaba, which is the the big stone box that the Muslims will worship.

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Do you know there's a stone implanted on the side of that box?

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In the meteorite?

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Well, nobody's been out. Obviously, it would be a massive sin to take a sample of it and test it to know what it is.

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But they say that the stone on the side of the Kaaba was was given to Adam, the first man, or it was given to Abraham by the angel Gabriel.

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So their their what their perspective of it is that it was it was a celestial stone that was given to the the the Islamic faith by celestial beings.

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I mean, there is such a although. So from a personal point of view, I do believe in God. But I with aliens, I'm honestly not sure.

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But I will admit there is, you know, there are some very interesting images out there and there is there is a lot of stuff throughout history.

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It's interesting that to ancient people, they'd often be one in the same, like priests in Babylon were more astronomers than astronomers who did a few rituals during the day, astronomers and mathematicians more than anything else.

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So it's there is always going to be that that ancient crossover between things that move in the heavens and then the idea of a heaven or ascendant being or something along those lines.

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Like even it's interesting that the Kaaba's got that got that stone and possibly, as you said, puts that that meteorite, although I'm not going to say I know what it is.

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It's interesting that that parallels with the Temple of Artemis in Ephesus, which was founded after a meteorite or a rock fell from the sky and inspired the silversmiths there to start making idols to Artemis, the god of the hunt from its materials.

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Yeah, sorry, I don't know. It's just interesting. It's also interesting that Mecca was a holy site before Islam.

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Like the Kaaba and that that place was the center of Arabic culture and used to house hundreds of idols before, before Mohammed took the city without bloodshed and well actually no I think he might have destroyed all the idols and then took the city.

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I don't know the order of it. I need to research my Islamic history more.

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But yeah, the Kaaba has been the Kaaba is an ancient site of worship. Sorry, I don't know. It's quite common.

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Did Mohammed live in the Kaaba is like a home.

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At some point.

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I don't I can't say that for certain. All I know is from what I've read.

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Mohammed lived like a very.

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Oh my god this I really don't want to offend people but I'm just gonna say it and then we are very ignorant.

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We don't wish to offend anybody. Yeah, that's it.

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From my own research into Islam and into the startings of Islam Mohammed seems to have lived like a very regular man and the startings of Islam seem to be incredibly egalitarian to the point where the people didn't know who when when Mohammed passed on the leadership.

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And I forgotten the word for the for the leader of Islam at that time.

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But when he passed it on, quite often those people would be so humble up until about the fifth one, because it was either the fifth or the fifth because the fifth or the fourth got murdered, because they had pray in regular clothes in the mosque in amongst the people and could quite often be mistaken for just a regular bloke.

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I don't know if Mohammed lived in the car but at any time, but I know that he lived and then seems to have just died of illness in his old age which is different from a number of other prophetic figures who you know either ascend or descend or, or have a horrible and violent death.

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I'll tell you what, I apologize I don't know where I got short thing. I don't know. I don't think so. But I'm happy to be proved wrong by either listeners or by yourself.

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I have no idea. It does quite nicely hand me over to another reference, slightly more modern this one. Can anybody tell me a another head of religious state that lived as a normal man before this, before a religion was born from him.

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Referring to any kind of alien nurse yes. Absolutely with alien reference this is.

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Well, I know of a religion, a religious guy that started up a religion that a lot of the people in the religion don't realize is very alien based. I was brought up in the Mormon church, which I have no affiliation with nor do I believe anymore. But I was very much indoctrinated into that.

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The first guy that started up the Mormon church was Joseph Smith, who was well known at the time for his tall tales. And after reaching the 33rd degree Scottish Freemasonry, he then started up the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

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The only thing that's so short of it is that they believe that God lives on a planet closest to a star called Kolob.

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A lot of LDS Mormons have no idea of this, but they are, if you think about it, because they also believe that Jesus Christ is the literal son of God and one of his many goddess wives.

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So they also, so they believe and worship the son of an alien.

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If you look in sweet, this is actually what they believe in.

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Yeah, so I did a bit, I did scratch up a little bit on the Mormon faith, just to make sure that I had everything together before I go on this.

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So Joseph Smith was visited in a dream by a being, it can only be described as a being called Moroni, who told him about some scriptures that were hidden under a tree in America.

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And these scriptures were apparently written, they were the notes of Jesus Christ himself, who after his crucifixion and ascension to heaven, returned to minister in America.

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So Moroni, I think the pronunciation is Moroni, but anointing, the only way, oh okay, I'd only heard, I only knew that from songs from sadly the Book of Mormon.

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By the guys that wrote South Park, I haven't seen it but I really do want to see it.

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It's spot on and it's brilliant.

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So Moroni was a being who, he wasn't an angel as people interpreted it within the church, he was actually a being that once lived on earth but now resided on a star within the Pleiades star system.

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So yeah, he was an extraterrestrial being and like you said Pudds, they believed that God himself was a being from that same star system, his son.

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Yes, many gods beside him, he was like us trying to live the most pious life to become a god of his own planet.

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Now obviously that's quite a recent religion I say in foreign historical terms, but there's an even more recent one which I think has an even more outlandish.

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Now please do not think for a second that I am telling you that this is incorrect, I have to be very careful because they are very sue happy this church.

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Now you might know Scientology as that Tom Cruise or John Travolta one because of course they are some of the more famous names that are within the church.

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But the church itself was the brainchild of a science fiction author L. Ron Hubbard who over the course of his lifetime published hundreds of fiction stories.

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In fact he holds the Guinness World Record for the most published works by a human being within his lifetime.

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It's an incredible fact I thought that. It's not relevant to the religion but I thought it was definitely worth adding in there before I went into the story of the Scientologist's belief.

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Now this is not common knowledge to members of the church, you have to reach a certain level within the church before this information is informed to you.

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By which time I should point out that one of the practices of Scientology is something they call cleansing or clearing I think they call it.

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Which is essentially opening up to your deepest darkest secrets and all of these things are supposed to be clearing your body of negativity and boxing it away and dealing with that so that you can ascend and be a more enlightened being.

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But all of the cleaning or cleansing that you have is recorded.

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So by the time you get to this point where you're told the story of Scientology they've got so much on you that if you start talking about it then they can throw it out there and kind of like slander you to the point where you will never be accepted into society again.

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Just another point worth mentioning. But yeah anyway the story goes that 75 million years ago a dictator called Xenu of the Galactic Confederacy brought humans to earth and dropped them into volcanoes releasing their Thetons or souls into the environment.

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These Thetons are angry and upset and have caused us to become infected by these Thetons and we are now infected and over affected by negative emotions.

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That's why humans as a race on this planet are so mentally negative. That's what their belief is but an incredible heritage to a very modern belief system.

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Hmm it's very interesting. I have absolutely no criticisms of that at all.

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The silence of James is all I need.

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Well you know what I just...

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My own religion's hands aren't clean so it's it's very difficult to throw stones in a glass house.

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But having said that no.

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That what it's... with the... okay I'm somewhat ignorant on this myself but I actually so I actually genuinely want to know here.

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I didn't know that I knew that the writer of the original Scientology creation stories was also a science fiction writer. I didn't know that they had produced the most...

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... held a Guinness World Record for producing the most work. Did he specifically mark his writings for the foundation of Scientology as...

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Oh my god I can't. I know this is incredibly ignorant and incredibly stupid and I apologize for even asking this but just to put it out there. Did he mark them as different from his...

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He was actually a general in the... he was an officer within the American army. He worked... he was... there's a lot of questionable circumstances as to why he left the army.

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However he says he worked within intelligence and that's how he came to know the kind of things that he knows.

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But there's been a lot of questions about his mental health following injuries that he sustained within the army.

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And so the American government have questioned him in the past about his...

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There's been massive questions to the church itself as to whether it is even a church. It has now been quoted as a church and is therefore tax free despite the thousands and thousands and thousands of pounds that it costs per person to be a member of the church.

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But he himself wasn't necessarily a very well man but he does quite clearly state that this is intelligence that he gained over his years of working as an intelligence officer.

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At the same time as adopting these kind of clearing techniques himself and then he was given the knowledge through the process of clearing and you know it's all kind of like an ascendancy to that point.

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Almost like you have to be clear before you can fully understand the... which is why me talking about it right now shouldn't really offend anybody that is a Scientologist because I'm not clear.

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I don't have the clearing status that they have therefore of course I'm not going to comprehend it the same way they are.

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Therefore it's going to sound outlandish to me. However to them that have ascended to that point of intelligence obviously they can understand in a way that it's beyond me.

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But yeah there's some crazy faiths out there. The references that Poods kept alluding back to the Sumerians I do want to kind of do a little bit of story time with Nick over this one because I thought this one was absolutely phenomenal.

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I'm glad that you said that because I'm incredibly ignorant when it comes to both. So all I know is that a number of the creation stories of the ancient world start with the world or the universe as they understand it.

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Having a foundation of water it's why one of the first people to be kind of recognized as a natural philosopher rather than a moral philosopher.

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Natural philosophers later became scientists as we covered in the last episode.

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But the reason why he said that or one of the reasons why people think that he said that everything is water because it tied in with the Babylonian creation myths.

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I don't know the Babylonian creation myths. I don't know the Sumerian creation myths. I'd love to hear them.

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And I also the reason why I asked about whether the Scientologist writer. What was his name?

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El Ron Hubbard.

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El Ron Hubbard kind of separated it is because even in ancient times there were different genres of writing.

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And so there were mathematician mathematical works. There were fictional works. There were poetic works. And then there were factual works.

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So I just wanted to make sure like the yeah like even though the Bible says some weird outlandish things everything in everything in about the way that it was written.

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And if I'm honest with you the I'm going to say this even though even though it's probably going to get me into trouble with a lot of people.

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The lack of entertainment value of it kind of clearly shows that it was supposed to be a form of factual knowledge if that makes sense.

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Like and it certainly doesn't read.

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All stories are supposed to.

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Certainly doesn't read like fiction.

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All the generations written down and all the laws are very fun to read.

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Yeah, yeah I'm currently going through them in audiobook. I am.

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I'm not finding it easy if I'm honest with you.

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But moving moving swiftly on from that.

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So yeah I just wanted to make sure that that particular author of Scientology had separated that from his other work.

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Yeah, yeah. So he definitely didn't say that it was fiction.

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Much the same as as Joseph Smith he quite clearly said that it was prophesied or information that was given to him from celestial means.

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Didn't he. I'm really sorry to. I don't mean to make you uncomfortable here.

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But happy go for it. Anything's more momentous and more.

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All right. It's brilliant. All right. So is it true that he was saying that he was.

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So the prophecies that he were given were written down on golden plates that he was using a particular stone or.

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Yeah. So the Hill. I think it was called under the under the stone.

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Yeah. The gold plates. He was reading through a hat.

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This strange thing was seer stone.

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He had put the stone into a hat and then he'd put the hat to his face.

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And he was able to understand what these gold plates were saying which were in a different language which nobody else had ever seen.

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By the way. OK. Only Joseph Smith had seen these gold plates.

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No one else was allowed to see them. So the only testament of the gold plates themselves were with Joseph Smith.

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OK. That's right. OK. Cool. I just wanted to double actually double check my facts from the Book of Mormon because that is something that they said.

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And unfortunately like although Matt and Trey sorry the creators of South Park are amazing writers I don't necessarily assume every joke that they make as as factual or accurate.

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I just want what I can tell you is the episode of South Park where they go into how the Mormon Church began.

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Yeah. So it's hilarious. I absolutely love it.

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It is the most hilarious thing I've ever seen. So you would think there's so much of that.

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It's just jokes to make you laugh. Right. The thing the thing that makes me laugh the most is every single thing that said word for word.

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Not one thing added or taken away is exactly what happened.

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That's what makes it funnier. OK. Yeah. That does make it funnier.

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I will also admit and I will also admit I also love the fact that although they made fun of the Mormon beliefs what they did at least to continually was point out that

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that belief system leads them to being good people like Randy.

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Fantastic people. Yeah. Like Randy goes to beat up one of the Mormons and he goes out there and the Mormon just turns it around and he walks in and like stands like did you go kick his ass and he's just like no we're going around for dinner next week.

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That's a very momentous. Just absolutely. Like you've got to you've got to respect hospitality.

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Anyway but sorry. Moving on. Tangents if you haven't seen it listeners please do go and watch the episode of South Park. It's definitely worth watching.

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They also did an episode on Scientology which is worth a watch.

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Anyway Sumerians. So this faith is possibly the oldest and closest linked with aliens within human history purely because the story of it is specifically outlining alien intervention in human development.

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It's absolutely incredible. Now this this faith lasted for about 5000 years. The cuneiform texts that were found were actually only found about that were they were carbon dated to about two and a half to 3000 years BC.

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However the faith did exist before that. It was just that that was when people started to write write it down.

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So the story goes a little bit like this. It tells of the Anunnaki from the planet Nibiru coming to earth to mine gold in order to purify the atmosphere of their home planet.

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They brought with them the Igigi who were a race of slaves who eventually rebelled against the Anunnaki and were slaughtered leaving the rulers in need of a new race of slaves.

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They mixed their DNA with that of beings on the planet namely apes on earth and created man after many freakish failed attempts namely the Nephilim who were giants who had insanely strong power but very little intelligence.

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Reference of course David and Goliath in the Bible the story of the last giant. However going back to this Anunnaki's taught humans to build their own dwellings and farms however they refused to teach them tool creation for fear that this knowledge would be used against them.

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Humans were allowed to live within their city specifically within the Garden of Eden in the center of their city where their women lived while the men's work was to mine gold from the planet in order for the Anunnaki to purify their atmosphere.

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Overpopulation led to many being banished from the Garden of Eden. Eventually after a few thousand years Nibiru returned closer to the earth which led to a massive problem with the earth's atmosphere.

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It warmed the earth's atmosphere the polar ice caps melted it caused an insane flooding which gave birth to the Epic of Gilgamesh and the Anunnaki put what was left of the humans in boats to ride out the storm to ride out the floods and eventually traveled back to their

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planet Nibiru leaving humans behind not before teaching humans tool creation, maths, language, architecture, hierarchical societies.

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They also appointed certain lineages as leaders and demanded they keep their bloodline pure in order to dominate over in order to keep dominion over the others.

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They told them to build pyramids and ziggurats in the formation of celestial constellations in order to guide the Anunnaki back to earth.

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So that's the symmetry with what James was saying earlier with the Dike and the royal bloodlines with the reptilians.

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There is so much symmetry it's not just like there's so much symmetry with like the biblical beliefs the Abrahamic beliefs.

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There's symmetry there with not just that but geological sites around the world. You think about the Tartuakan in South America you think about the positioning of the great pyramids of Giza and how they are positioned within the formation of the Orion constellation.

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Yeah. So there's so many things within that story that relate to like they reference other point or they've influenced I suppose in many ways the cultures that exist on the planet worldwide.

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Either that or it's complete coincidence, which I'm very skeptical to believe.

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There's only too many coincidences you can take.

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Yeah. Now obviously Anu was their main god for the Nibirin god and Ki was the earthbound goddess, man and wife.

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And that led to the name Anunnaki.

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And their offspring were Enki and Enlil.

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Now Enki was a friend of the humans and Enlil was the trickster if my memory serves anyway.

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And I believe Enlil was the one that taught the humans the intelligence that eventually ended up with them being banished from the Garden of Eden.

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So was the fallen angel that taught Adam and Eve gave them the fruit of the gods or whatever it was that was in the Bible.

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I wasn't expecting to hear anything about the Garden of Eden outside of the biblical references.

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Oh yes and Nick isn't just using that word. If you look into it, it's exactly the same word that the Sumerians use.

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Yep. Yep.

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Which obviously they speculate that the Garden of Eden was a physical place around the Syrian kind of Turkish border.

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A land which is now completely off limits due to massive turmoil and unrest in the countries.

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It's very dangerous that you can go and visit it. You are likely to encounter a bit of trouble along the way.

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However, that's the speculation is that it's within that area.

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However the Sumerian beliefs obviously they centered around the river Tigris wasn't it in Mesopotamia?

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So I know that the biblical references seem to point towards it.

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The Garden of Eden being... No it does. It's just I don't remember it exactly. I apologize for my ignorance.

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I know that it is in the Golden Crescent. I know that it is supposed to be somewhere between the two rivers. I can't remember where exactly.

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It is off of the Nile somewhere isn't it?

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Oh the Niles. The Niles, miles.

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I'm trying to think of where the Bible is actually mentioning it.

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I'm sure it was the river Tigris. Yeah it was the river Tigris and a couple of others which is around Iraq kind of area there.

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Which is probably the birthplace of humanity isn't it?

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Yeah I mean that's what they speculate. That's what they speculate within the Sumerian, those who have researched the Sumerian beliefs anyway.

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But yeah I thought it was an incredible story with massive references towards alien intervention.

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It really is... I blew my mind when I first heard about it. I was like wow this is absolutely incredible stuff.

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And I watched an entire documentary about it which has happened to fall out the side of my head unfortunately.

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But it really did... A couple of things stuck in there.

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Did you find that? Could you send that to me? That genuinely does sound interesting though.

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The first episode of Ancient Civilizations goes into it deeply.

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Fantastic. But if you could send me the link afterwards.

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It's on Netflix. Ancient... No that one's Ancient Apocalypse.

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Ah yeah no wrong one. Ancient Civilizations. Yeah yeah.

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Okay Ancient Civilizations on Netflix yeah?

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Yeah yeah. It'd be on Dyer.

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Okay fantastic. Alright sorry listeners I realize that's not good listening for you.

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But I think it's good for you to know our sources and to have some...

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It'd be good for anyone's watch. Yeah absolutely.

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Who wants to have their head completely blown? Well they might go for it.

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Well I'm already struggling but go ahead.

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On the side of religious references I heard a mention of a West African race, West African peoples called the Dogon recently.

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Who they're very much uninfluenced by the Western world.

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And they've had their beliefs and they're very strong on their beliefs.

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Their belief... I have a feeling I know where you're going with this. Their belief is that has been...

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Their belief was about Sirius, the Sirius star system.

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They believed for five and a half thousand years that the Sirius star system was a binary star system.

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A fact that was only uncovered by scientists with modern technology in 1950.

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The Dogon who are tribal people worshipping gods from far away star systems whilst marching around a campfire I might add.

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They do say that their ancestors came from Sirius A and this is how they know.

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And that in itself blew my mind.

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You know what I've read today? There's a lot of ancient peoples. You speak of a time before the moon.

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Yeah I heard about that as well. There was a time before the moon and the moon itself was placed into our orbit.

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There's a few interesting things about the moon though of course that are almost very difficult to ignore.

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Such as the ringing of a bell, the sound of the bell that it makes when it's impacted.

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Well the craters seem to be the same depth as well.

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Almost like it's hollow. Like Pud said there's a certain maximum depth to their craters.

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Distance and the size is perfect so that it completely covers the sun in a total eclipse.

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It's very strange behaviour.

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There's always a point that is constantly pointing at the earth despite its rotation.

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It's the only celestial body in our own research that we've found that behaves that way.

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And it's actually closer and larger than any other moon that we know of.

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Very suspect.

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I will admit those things do always weird me out.

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Okay so again this is second hand half remembered knowledge but I think it's that the moon is both 400 times closer to the earth than the sun.

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And also the sun is 400 times larger.

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Times bigger like. Yeah it's crazy isn't it.

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It's exact. It does really weird me out that you...I don't know it almost seems like an optical illusion.

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The fact that it's always the same bit that's facing us.

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And I just kind of also wonder what ancient people would have been able to deduce if they were able to notice it turning.

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I couldn't tell you a reference to anybody that knew of it turning.

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However like Pud said there is a number of things about it.

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The thing that makes me question or makes me oo and arr a little bit about the moon is obviously NASA's own investigation into...

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Because as the story goes that as the fabled moon landing left the moon they jettisoned their dead weight onto the moon.

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And the moon itself rang like a bell for a matter of hours afterwards.

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Not something that you would expect from a solid piece of rock you know.

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And they were that intrigued by it that on their next unmanned visit to the moon they deliberately dropped an even larger object onto the moon.

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Just to kind of see whether it was a coincidence or just a happening that was or some malfunction with their technology.

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But it did again it rang for a matter of hours afterwards like a bell.

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This lays over and not touch on the subject that NASA keeps saying we have to figure out how to get past the Van Halen belts to get out of low earth orbit.

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And yet we somehow went to the moon.

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Yeah that's definitely... I mean there's many scientists that have said we shouldn't even be able to leave the earth because of the amount of radiation around the earth.

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Just more interesting stuff.

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Yeah definitely.

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Can anybody tell me of any kind of artwork within history specific pieces of art that ring into your mind when it comes to alien history?

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Alien influences or alien references.

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Pudds you said Leonardo?

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Yeah there's a picture, Leonardo da Vinci, where there are...

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There's something in the sky.

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We can see two vehicles with people in them.

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People say you know it could be the moon and the sun but Leonardo da Vinci was a fantastic artist.

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That's the crucifixion of Christ isn't it, a painting from Kosovo where the event shows two strange objects in the top left and the top right flying through the sky.

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Kind of like triangular shapes. The best thing about these shapes is that they actually have people within them.

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Yes and I'm under no doubt that Leonardo da Vinci would have been able to draw a very accurate looking moon and sun.

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Resort to ridiculous images like that.

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Yeah quite commonly in, just to clarify why Pudds made that reference, quite commonly within ancient or older religious images.

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If they ever painted the crucifixion of Christ they would normally have a sun and a moon in the sky on the left and the right.

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Which is why you reference that isn't it?

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But on this occasion obviously the proverbial sun and moon had beings within them and they looked nothing like suns and moons if I'm honest.

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They looked more like pointy rockets.

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It looks like they're using aircraft in space, in the sky.

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James in at United.

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This is annoyingly one point where I have to completely admit my own ignorance.

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I know that there are some and annoyingly I did study art but none come into mind.

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I dozed up this morning on my facts.

360
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So in the Atsuro Bune, I believe it was Japanese, the legend that says that in 1803 a circular disc shaped object with glass windows and metal sheets washed ashore.

361
00:54:47,000 --> 00:54:57,000
A beautiful female being emerged wearing strange clothes and this myth was immortalized into a piece of art from 1803.

362
00:54:57,000 --> 00:55:07,000
The shape is quite obvious like disc shaped and like they said it was glass and metal that washed ashore.

363
00:55:07,000 --> 00:55:13,000
The Madonna and Saint Giovannino.

364
00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:25,000
This painting shows a shepherd in the background looking up towards a disc shaped object in the sky behind the Madonna looking at the baby Saint Giovannino.

365
00:55:25,000 --> 00:55:42,000
In India there are cave paintings that depict disc shaped objects and oddly tall beings.

366
00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:48,000
They appear to show humans worshipping or fearing these beings.

367
00:55:48,000 --> 00:55:55,000
But my favorite and I use this term loosely because I'm not one to have favorites.

368
00:55:55,000 --> 00:56:00,000
The one that kind of stands out to me the most is the miracle of the snow.

369
00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:08,000
Masolino di Panacale painted the Pope Liberius inspecting snowfall in August in Rome.

370
00:56:08,000 --> 00:56:15,000
Now if you don't understand why the Pope himself would be inspecting snowfall in Rome.

371
00:56:15,000 --> 00:56:20,000
It's because especially in August snow doesn't fall in August.

372
00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:22,000
It's like the height of their summer.

373
00:56:22,000 --> 00:56:30,000
So the fact that snow was falling in Rome at that point.

374
00:56:30,000 --> 00:56:33,000
Now he's inspecting a piece of ground where the snow is laid.

375
00:56:33,000 --> 00:56:38,000
A piece of ground which he later had a church built on it.

376
00:56:38,000 --> 00:56:50,000
Another one of those occurrences James referenced to your comment earlier about a happening that enticed a religious site to become something.

377
00:56:50,000 --> 00:56:53,000
So yeah the miracle of the snow.

378
00:56:53,000 --> 00:56:59,000
And in the sky there's about 28 to 30 strange disc shaped objects.

379
00:56:59,000 --> 00:57:04,000
All of which look like the common concept of UFOs.

380
00:57:04,000 --> 00:57:15,000
The interesting thing about that one is that there's numerous accounts within history where disc shaped objects are seen in the sky.

381
00:57:15,000 --> 00:57:24,000
And then a fluttering of white or silvery kind of powder then falls down from the sky no matter where they are on the planet.

382
00:57:24,000 --> 00:57:28,000
Even if it's in the center of the desert or something.

383
00:57:28,000 --> 00:57:37,000
So I thought that was quite interesting that that would be captured within a painting.

384
00:57:37,000 --> 00:57:38,000
Unfortunately...

385
00:57:38,000 --> 00:57:40,000
This is interesting isn't it?

386
00:57:40,000 --> 00:57:41,000
Yeah that painting...

387
00:57:41,000 --> 00:57:43,000
The artist is obviously very good.

388
00:57:43,000 --> 00:57:48,000
All the people look very well drawn.

389
00:57:48,000 --> 00:57:51,000
And these you couldn't mistake these for clouds.

390
00:57:51,000 --> 00:57:58,000
Obviously I will say what we've got a Reddit haven't we James?

391
00:57:58,000 --> 00:58:08,000
I will post the links to these images on the Reddit for anybody that is interested to have a look at.

392
00:58:08,000 --> 00:58:18,000
And there's obviously a few mentions of UFOs within ancient Egyptian hieroglyphics.

393
00:58:18,000 --> 00:58:23,000
Or at least they can be perceived as UFOs.

394
00:58:23,000 --> 00:58:31,000
But one of the most interesting sculptures that exists as I mentioned earlier is the Olmecs of South America.

395
00:58:31,000 --> 00:58:39,000
Of an image carved into a stone showing the great serpent Quetzalcoatl and a craft or forming a craft.

396
00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:48,000
And inside this is a human quite clearly wearing some kind of helmet.

397
00:58:48,000 --> 00:58:52,000
Whilst operating buttons and switches.

398
00:58:52,000 --> 00:58:55,000
And it looks like flames coming out the bottom like a rocket.

399
00:58:55,000 --> 00:59:00,000
Yeah a really interesting sculpture.

400
00:59:00,000 --> 00:59:03,000
If you haven't seen that James it looks amazing.

401
00:59:03,000 --> 00:59:05,000
It's difficult to explain what it is.

402
00:59:05,000 --> 00:59:07,000
Really difficult.

403
00:59:07,000 --> 00:59:09,000
It's very interesting.

404
00:59:09,000 --> 00:59:20,000
Once again I can only apologise to the listeners for my own ignorance about something I should know a huge amount about.

405
00:59:20,000 --> 00:59:26,000
I am interested in classical painting but I haven't seen a lot of this stuff.

406
00:59:26,000 --> 00:59:33,000
Yeah well as I said I'll put the links in the Reddit for people to take a look at.

407
00:59:33,000 --> 00:59:45,000
There of course is some rather large objects on the ground in South America.

408
00:59:45,000 --> 01:00:04,000
Which although they don't depict aliens the fact they exist becomes a bit questionable when you think about why they would be there.

409
01:00:04,000 --> 01:00:13,000
Why make an image that you can only see from the sky where ancient people would have no way of getting up there.

410
01:00:13,000 --> 01:00:30,000
It's the fact that the ground that they are on would have had to have been sheared, flattened in order for these images to be imprinted on the earth.

411
01:00:30,000 --> 01:00:36,000
They weren't just oh yeah we're going to draw a painting here because it's a massive flat area.

412
01:00:36,000 --> 01:00:47,000
It became so massive an area that they ended up having to remove some of the hillsides in order to continue their images.

413
01:00:47,000 --> 01:00:53,000
The sad thing is this must have been so incredibly important to them.

414
01:00:53,000 --> 01:00:58,000
And thousands of years later we have no idea why.

415
01:00:58,000 --> 01:01:01,000
Yeah we're just sitting there going yeah it's quite interesting isn't it.

416
01:01:01,000 --> 01:01:08,000
They put so much effort into something so big and we can only marvel and wonder.

417
01:01:08,000 --> 01:01:14,000
That's exactly it. So much has been lost throughout history.

418
01:01:14,000 --> 01:01:21,000
Unfortunately I was holding back the comment so obviously it wasn't just an afternoon art attack.

419
01:01:21,000 --> 01:01:26,000
From what you've described.

420
01:01:26,000 --> 01:01:30,000
The ancient Nazca Neal Buchanan.

421
01:01:30,000 --> 01:01:34,000
Let the camera go up as he puts his arms out wide.

422
01:01:34,000 --> 01:01:37,000
Absolutely.

423
01:01:37,000 --> 01:01:43,000
It makes sense when it's on a hillside.

424
01:01:43,000 --> 01:01:50,000
Even close to the seaside town of Folkestone you've got the white horse.

425
01:01:50,000 --> 01:01:52,000
You've got the long man as well.

426
01:01:52,000 --> 01:02:01,000
By comparison these things are tiny.

427
01:02:01,000 --> 01:02:09,000
It's also interesting that you guys mention about the amount of effort that some ancient societies would go to to produce these things.

428
01:02:09,000 --> 01:02:14,000
I can't remember the official term of it. It's annoying.

429
01:02:14,000 --> 01:02:25,000
The heads on Easter Island which then caused mass extinction because they'd used all of the wood on the island to move these heads around.

430
01:02:25,000 --> 01:02:28,000
Are they just heads?

431
01:02:28,000 --> 01:02:31,000
No they're actually bodies below the surface aren't they.

432
01:02:31,000 --> 01:02:34,000
Yeah I'm pretty sure they're whole bodies.

433
01:02:34,000 --> 01:02:36,000
Get out of town.

434
01:02:36,000 --> 01:02:39,000
Yeah like massive yeah.

435
01:02:39,000 --> 01:02:41,000
Oh okay I didn't know.

436
01:02:41,000 --> 01:02:44,000
It's even more terrifying to think of isn't it.

437
01:02:44,000 --> 01:02:53,000
That's even more terrifying that you've just got these massive stone near almost in the middle of nowhere.

438
01:02:53,000 --> 01:02:58,000
Yeah near colossus sized statues.

439
01:02:58,000 --> 01:03:00,000
Also all buried up to the neck.

440
01:03:00,000 --> 01:03:03,000
Yeah on an island in the middle of the ocean.

441
01:03:03,000 --> 01:03:08,000
And all facing out towards the ocean.

442
01:03:08,000 --> 01:03:28,000
Interestingly there's architecture which exists on Easter Island which is similar if not exact to architecture which can be found in Egypt, in Japan, in South America and numerous other sites around the world.

443
01:03:28,000 --> 01:03:35,000
It would make more sense if Easter Island was part of a much bigger landmass at one point.

444
01:03:35,000 --> 01:03:37,000
That would connect these different places.

445
01:03:37,000 --> 01:03:41,000
I mean it's a shot in the ocean. It is a drop in the ocean rather.

446
01:03:41,000 --> 01:03:44,000
It is a tiny tiny island.

447
01:03:44,000 --> 01:03:57,000
You couldn't just the chances of you I should say the chances of you just stumbling across it and finding it going there going oh this is a nice place let me go back and get some mates and then being able to come back.

448
01:03:57,000 --> 01:04:04,000
Let's waste a load of time making these massive statues in the middle of nowhere where no one's going to find it.

449
01:04:04,000 --> 01:04:07,000
It is really incredible stuff.

450
01:04:07,000 --> 01:04:17,000
But that's I think more of a terrestrial mystery than an extraterrestrial mystery.

451
01:04:17,000 --> 01:04:20,000
But I have reached the end of all of my research.

452
01:04:20,000 --> 01:04:23,000
I know there are a number of other points.

453
01:04:23,000 --> 01:04:32,000
If anybody else of the listeners has anything else that they want to mention do pop over to our Reddit.

454
01:04:32,000 --> 01:04:35,000
They mentioned at the beginning of the podcast.

455
01:04:35,000 --> 01:04:41,000
But that as I said is the end of my research unless anybody else has anything to add.

456
01:04:41,000 --> 01:04:45,000
I think we can just round off there.

457
01:04:45,000 --> 01:04:56,000
Something that I forgot to say earlier and really should have said is today was the first day of using my microphone that was given to me by a friend for Secret Santa.

458
01:04:56,000 --> 01:05:00,000
So thank you very much Secret Santa for the new microphone.

459
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:03,000
I realise that's irrelevant.

460
01:05:03,000 --> 01:05:04,000
Thank you very much.

461
01:05:04,000 --> 01:05:07,000
Well thank you to them I should say.

462
01:05:07,000 --> 01:05:15,000
Yes and thank you to them from us because your audio quality is fantastic.

463
01:05:15,000 --> 01:05:18,000
Anything else from you guys?

464
01:05:18,000 --> 01:05:20,000
No I thought it was a good conversation.

465
01:05:20,000 --> 01:05:22,000
Happy New Year to everybody.

466
01:05:22,000 --> 01:05:24,000
Thank you for inviting me.

467
01:05:24,000 --> 01:05:25,000
You're more than welcome.

468
01:05:25,000 --> 01:05:27,000
It's been a pleasure having you.

469
01:05:27,000 --> 01:05:30,000
My absolute pleasure.

470
01:05:30,000 --> 01:05:40,000
Yeah I once again this has made me aware of my ignorance and that's something I should celebrate rather than mourn.

471
01:05:40,000 --> 01:05:43,000
Thank you very much for the research and information guys.

472
01:05:43,000 --> 01:05:44,000
Have a good night.

473
01:05:44,000 --> 01:05:45,000
And yourselves.

474
01:05:45,000 --> 01:05:46,000
Take care guys.

475
01:05:46,000 --> 01:06:11,000
Bye bye.

476
01:06:16,000 --> 01:06:18,000
Bye bye.