Welcome. This is the Men Church Stuff Podcast.
This is the show where brothers-in-law DJ Culp and Brad Coleman talk about stuff from
our perspective as men. It's a show for anyone who wants to hear how Christians interact
with the world. And don't worry, we're real. We've grown up in church and we want to share
our experiences with you. We'll talk life stuff, church stuff, man stuff, and stuff
stuff. Here we go.
Greetings listeners here and there and everywhere, all across the land. This is the Men Church
Stuff Podcast. I am one of your hosts, DJ Culp, as always here with my beloved brother-in-law,
Brad Coleman. Brad, what's up, man?
Sitting here drinking coffee and enjoying the fact that the kids and Tabby went back
to school today. I love having them at home, but it throws off my routine.
It does. So, Shara and the kids are actually at home again. I'm at work. This is the first
place that I've ever worked that has a, well, excuse me, this is the first institution of
higher education that I've ever worked that has a delayed policy. I don't know about you,
but if there was snow or whatever, but they still wanted to have class. Like at Murray
State, we were just told classes will begin at 10. So, if you had an 8 a.m., you didn't
have to go. So, yeah, I had to come in to work, but classes were a bit shorter today.
But yeah, we've got some snow. We've got a lot more ice than I was expecting. What about
you guys?
Well, we're pretty much clearing back up, I think. Roads and stuff are getting cleared.
I mean, it's cold, but we got some snow, but I feel like it's not as much as we've gotten
past. And I feel like the sun's starting to get rid of it. I don't even know what the
temperature is like outside right now. I haven't stepped outside.
Dude, it's nippy. I like it.
Just looking out, it looks like life is going on.
Life is going on. So, listeners, Brad and I are recording this on February 20. So, several
days ago, Brad and Tabitha and the kids, as mentioned last week, they had come over and
we got to spend time with them. Brad, I had a blast, man. I really did. It was so good
to hang out with you guys and nobody was ill.
Yeah, it was sick.
It was nice. We all had a good time.
So listeners, what I'll do is I'll post some pictures of me and Brad and Dad playing Rail
Bear and John Rear, you'll appreciate that. So, we didn't actually get to finish our game
just because we started at like four and when nine o'clock rolled around, we were still
playing and we just kind of had to go. But Brad won. Congratulations, Brad.
By default.
Because I was ahead, monetarily ahead.
That's right.
It's a bittersweet win. I will still accept it.
Yeah. But did you really win?
I didn't. It didn't feel as much like I earned it, like playing out the rest of how the game
was going to go.
Yeah, I have a suspicion I was going to win that one. But I guess we'll never know, will
we?
I think it's one of the big issues that I have potentially in the future.
So before we dive into our topic, per the norm, we just simply want to give a shout
out to the Green Frog Coffee Company here in Jackson, Tennessee. There's actually a
Green Frog in Dyersburg. And I want to say one more, and I can't remember where it is,
but I know that they've got several locations. If you are in the West Tennessee area, we
strongly encourage you guys to check out Green Frog. They've come alongside us and we them.
And we've got just a wonderful little kind of mutual relationship going on that has nothing
to do with dollars. They want to support our show and what we do. They love what we do.
And super friendly.
Brad, I have been told actually by one of their managers that we're a part of their
family. He actually used your family here. So they seriously love the show and we love
them. So we thank you, Green Frog Coffee Company, for promoting our show and supporting us and
our mission, what we want to do. And we're here to support you as well.
And I can now say that I have drank some Green Frog Coffee and it was really good. Matter
of fact, I can say that for probably most of our listeners, I've drank about a week's
worth of Green Frog Coffee because we just continued to brew pots at your house.
Yeah, that's exactly right. Yeah, we've brewed a lot of coffee.
And I drank a lot of coffee, probably more than most people do. I saw a video yesterday
where this college professor was asking the people that came to his class to drink coffee.
And the people that did drink coffee were ones that were like, well, how much coffee
do you drink? And they're like, you know, like one, maybe two cups a day. And that was
like everybody. It was like one to two cups that did drink coffee. And I'm like, oh, those
are rookie numbers. You guys got to get those up.
Yeah, it's cute.
Where's my coffee drinkers?
That's so sweet.
So anyways, check out Green Frog. They are a great, great small, small business, again,
here local to the West Tennessee area. And they've got great values built on Christian
principles. And they really do have coffee so good that a snowman would drink it, assuming
that snowmen would drink coffee. And we're not going to unpack that metaphor because
that would be silly.
Okay, so Brad, let's dive into our topic, man. So listeners, just kind of prep as to
where this came from. One Sunday, we were sitting in church and a very common narrative,
I assume, Brad, that you grew up with as well, but a very common narrative that I heard that
I've grown up with is that Satan seeks or Satan desires to seek, steal and destroy.
Kill, steal and destroy.
Kill and destroy. Thank you. What did I say?
Seek, steal and destroy. Kill, steal and destroy.
Kill, steal and destroy.
And so he seeks to steal, kill and destroy. I don't know why I can't get those verbs right.
But anyways, the common narrative is not just that, but the common narrative that I've heard
oftentimes is that he does so to the family unit. He wants to steal, kill and destroy
the family. And let me do this, before we just really kind of launch into scripture
and whatnot, I just want to know, Brad, from your perspective, is that a common narrative
that you've heard coming up through church?
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, certainly a common narrative. I think it's scriptural. When you're looking
at the passage, I think Jesus is comparing himself and Satan or, again, godly versus
ungodly.
Yeah, right. So yeah. And again, deeper than just the family, I think it is anything that
is godly, you know, and the life that God gives us. You know, Satan is trying to steal
and kill and destroy, whether it be joy, whether it be goodness, whether it be life. That's
his mission. So yeah, heard that, preached it.
So and the like, what brought it up was, I got to thinking, and listeners, if you're
regulars of the show, you'll know that this is very much kind of in line with my MO. But
I got to thinking, does Satan seek to steal, kill and destroy the family unit? And if the
answer to that is yes, how? Not to necessarily say that, because it would be false for me
to say that I haven't experienced anything like that. But it's I didn't want to, Brad,
I didn't want to kind of walk into this topic that assuming that it's just an obvious answer,
yes, he does. And then just kind of move on from there. You know what I mean?
Okay, we're good.
Yep, he does. So the scripture reference that seeks, no, gosh, dang it, steal, kill and
destroy comes from.
I mean, he's seeking those.
He does seek, yeah, he's true.
Like a roaring lion.
And that's the second, that's the second reference. But it comes from John 10 10. So rather than
just reading that, I'm going to do John 10 through sorry, John 10 7 through 21 to give
us some context. Says, So Jesus said to them again, truly, truly, I say to you, I am the
door of the sheep. All those who came before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep
did not listen to them. I am the door. If anyone enters through me, he will be saved
and will go in and out and find pasture. The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy.
I came so that they would have life and have it abundantly. I am the good shepherd. The
good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. He who is a hired hand and not a shepherd,
who is not the owner of the sheep, the hired hand sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep
and flees and the wolf snatches them and scatters the flock. He flees because he is a hired
hand and does not care about his sheep. I am the good shepherd and I know my own and
my own know me just as the father knows me and I know the father and I laid down my life
for the sheep. And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also
and they will listen to my voice and they will become one flock with one shepherd. For
this reason, the father loves me because I lay down my life so that I may take it back.
No one has taken it away from me, but I lay it down on my own. I have authority to lay
it down and I have authority to take it back. This commandment I receive from my father."
And then, you know, sort of like coming back into John's sort of narrator voice, dissension
occurred again among the Jews because of these words. Many of the Jews were saying, he has
a demon and is insane. Why do you listen to him? Others were saying, these are not the
words of one who is demon possessed. The demon cannot open the eyes of those who are blind,
can it? And real quick, I just want to mention the reason that I went like farther, far,
farther beyond verse 10 is I love hearing like sort of in a more full context like where
scripture verse might be oriented. So, yeah, let me go ahead and do this as well since
we're, you know, just kind of diving into the scriptures here. Let's go 1 Peter chapter
5. Here we go. 1 through 11 says this, therefore I urge elders among you as your fellow elder
and a witness of the sufferings of Christ and one who is also a fellow partaker of the
glory that is to be revealed. Shepherd the flock of God among you, exercising oversight
not under compulsion, but voluntarily according to the will of God and not with greed, but
with eagerness, nor yet is domineering over those assigned to your care, but by proving
to be examples to the flock. And when the chief shepherd appears, capital letters, obviously
referring to Christ, you will receive the unfading crowd of glory. You younger men likewise
be subject to your elders and all of you clothe yourselves with humility toward one another
because God is opposed to the proud, but he gives grace to the humble. Therefore humble
yourselves under the mighty hand of God so that he may exalt you at the proper time,
having cast all your anxiety on him because he cares about you. Verse 8, this is sort
of the main thesis that we want to kind of focus in on. Be of sober spirit, be on the
alert. Your adversary, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion seeking someone to devour.
So resist him firm in your faith, knowing that the same experiences of suffering are
being accomplished by your brothers and sisters who are in the world. After you have suffered
for a little while, the God of all grace who called you to his eternal glory in Christ
will himself perfect, confirm, strengthen, and establish you to him be dominion forever
and ever. Amen. And if you're a musical nerd, you can also say 4-1 or Plagal Cadence. There
we go. All right. So you're welcome, Brad. That's right. So yeah, Brad, I was, I am,
I'm just kind of curious as to, you know, where, you know, kind of where to start here
with the, you know, the Satan seeks to steal, kill, and destroy. I guess like, I guess how
have, how have you either experienced it? How do you, how do you preach about it? Discussing
how Satan does that to the family unit. Okay. So let's, let's think of Ephesians, right?
Okay. It's the full, the full armor of God. What do we have in there? Right? We have truth.
We have faith. We have salvation. All right. Hang on. Let me, let me see. Let me, let me
run, run a little test on myself here. Okay. Belt of truth. Right? Shield of faith. Is
it? Helmet of salvation. Is that right? Helmet of salvation. Okay. What's the next one? Well,
we haven't got them out of order already, but. Okay. That's fine. Well, give me the
next, give me the breastplate. Righteousness. Right. Right. So having your feet shod, you
know, with the preparation. Peace, right? The gospel of peace. Gospel of peace. Okay.
The preparation of the gospel of peace. Right. And the sword. Sword of the sword. No. Is
it sword of the spirit? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Which is the word of God. Word of God. So
truth, righteousness, right? Faith, peace, the gospel, salvation, and the word of God.
Right. And don't forget to, and don't forget to gird your loins. Well, with truth. Gird
your loins with truth. That's right. Yeah. So, so these are the things that God gives
us as, as His armor that are for us to defend and to stand firm against Satan, who's trying
to steal and kill and destroy. Right. These are also the things that Satan, I think, is
trying to, or the things that he uses as his methods to steal and kill and destroy. Right?
Because go back to the garden. Satan is, is skewing truth. Right? So he's lying. Yeah.
But he's, but Satan's lies are believable because he's good at lying. My dad would say
he would send, like Satan will use an ocean of truth to send across a little lie. You
know, he's challenging God's truth. So he's trying to steal that, we're standing on that
truth or steal what the truth is and change it. That's a steal, kill, destroy. Yeah. And
if he can do that, you know, faith. Right? Do we believe God? I skipped righteousness,
but the shield of faith. Do we believe God? Do we stand on God? Yeah. You know, Satan
loves to say, did God say that? Or it has been written and it's given up to word, right?
Because Jesus, when Jesus is tempted in the wilderness, what does Satan do? He skews the
word of God. Right. Yeah. He's misusing God's word against God's word, which is hilarious.
Didn't work out very well for him. Yeah. It is written. It is written. Don't quote the
deep magic to me, which I was there when it was written. That's exactly right. As land.
Righteousness, right? We've talked about this in some previous episodes. We need God's righteousness,
not self-righteousness, not works-righteousness. We're righteous through Christ. The whole
idea with the Judaizers and Galatians, and they're trying to get these people to follow
law and be under the law because it's not the true gospel. Right? And Paul goes, they
need to be accursed. Well, where's that coming from? It's coming from Satan, who wants us
to believe a false gospel that kind of sounds like the gospel so that we miss the gospel,
so we can steal the true gospel away from us. Right. So again, other religions. Well,
they're counterfeits. They have some similarities because people will compare Christianity with
these other religions. Okay? Well, so Jesus says he's the way, the truth, and the life.
If Satan can steal that or kill that or destroy that by making us go, well, there's other
ways. Yeah. But then people are walking these other paths, maybe even convincing themselves,
I'm doing just fine. I'm following God, when in fact they're not. So salvation, right there.
The gospel of peace. Satan would have us, I think, believe that we need to be a peace
keeper instead of a peacemaker. But your dad is one of the big people that kind of helped
me understand what the difference was. He asked me that one day, and I was like, uh...
Because a peacemaker is someone who is working toward peace. Jesus was a peacemaker, not
a peacekeeper. Because a peacekeeper would not have healed someone on the Sabbath in
front of the Pharisees at their party. Very true. You know, he wouldn't have gone into
the temple... A peacekeeper wouldn't have gone into the temple to cleanse it because
that's going to upset some people. But a peacekeeper really is an oxymoron because it's not true
peace that they're keeping. It's false peace. It's not peace. What they're trying to do
is just keep people from rocking the boat, keep it there from being a stirrer. So it's
not true peace because true peace is only found in God and in Christ. So even those
who are being peacekeepers, it's a very shallow, maybe we can put it that way, very shallow
peace. But if Satan can come in and convince us that that's what we need to do, then he
steals true peace, the peace that only comes from God and following God. The peace that
sometimes causes us to have hard conversations that we don't want to have because we're pursuing
that peace. We want peace. I want you to have peace. I want them to have peace. But when
that peace is found only in Christ, then I can't accept that it's found somewhere else.
But if Satan can steal those things or kill those things or destroy those things or even
try to put a dent in it. Now, all of those things require, I think, and I think that's
probably why God starts with truth, right? So gird yourself out with the belt of truth
because truth keeps your pants up and all the others kind of, I think, build on it,
right? You need to know what is true. Fact, what are the facts? And then your faith in
the facts and then the feelings. So truth and then having Christ's righteousness, because
you need the truth to do that, having that faith in the truth, all of those things. And
I think with Satan, anytime and in any form that those things show up, Satan's gonna try
to attack them. So the model of marriage, part of marriage is to show us God's love
for His church, right? My love for my wife should be a good illustration of how God loves
His church. Now, it's imperfect, but people should look at my marriage and go, that's
good. And then be able to take the jump and go, oh, well, God uses the illustration of
the church as the bride of Christ. The way that I am a father to my children should be
a reflection of God's love, of God's boundaries, of God's discipline, all of those things.
So in the ways that I am a good father, that should be a reflection of the Father God.
And again, that's gonna be imperfect. But it can be, again, this good picture, say,
oh, look, He's a good father. And that should reflect first and foremost to my children,
but then to those outside. I need to be approachable by my children. My children should be able
to come to me and know that they can come to me and bring it to me. I should be a reflection
of God. So I hope that my children, when they mess up, go, I gotta go tell my dad, not,
oh, poo, I can't tell my dad. Don't let anybody tell my dad, you know what, that's
gonna kill me. I want them to know that I'm serious about sin. God's serious about sin.
But so, Satan is going to do everything that he can to undermine those things, again, to
steal, to take away.
Yeah, yeah.
Now, take it away. To kill, to slay it, to destroy. It destroys from two words. I just
looked this up, by the way. It's not coming off the top of my head. I don't want anybody
to see it. It comes from two words in the Greek, put together, away and to destroy,
or away and to lose. So if he can destroy, it means he can get that away from you, away
from the truth, away from its existence, so that its loss is destroyed. So again, all
these things kind of tie in and build on each other, steal, kill, and destroy. So yeah,
he's gonna try to do that to the family. He's gonna try to do that to the family unit. He's
gonna try to do that to anything that God, if he can pervert anything the way that God
did. And we see that in our culture. You know, it's maybe an unpopular opinion, but we're
like, well, when did God say this? Well, God made male and female, He made them, so that
the son will leave his father and mother and cleave to his wife, and the two would become
one flesh. This is God's model that they would be fruitful and multiply, so they would,
again, they would reproduce the next generation, have children. And so this is God's model.
So anything that we do, or anything that Satan does that he can do to convince us, oh, that's
the wrong model, that's the stupid model, or let's skew that model. Oh yeah, homosexuality
is okay, because love is love. Which is interesting, because a lot of times I think people don't
even understand what love is. Just a lot of people that I talk about, they wanted to find
love by a feeling and emotion. They're like, oh, well, we were in love, and then I fell
out of love. Then I'm like, I don't think you understand what love is. That's not the
way love works. Love's not emotion. Love's not a feeling.
As Sinbad would joke, you ain't in love, you in heat.
Right, right. And I think that's what we equate a lot of times love with is, oh, this person
makes me feel good, this person. And again, so 1 Corinthians 13, the love chapter. Anyway,
but anytime that Satan can start to redefine those definitions, what is he doing? He's
skewing, he's stealing, he's killing and destroying the truth or these things. So yeah, I mean,
he's doing that all the time. He's trying to do that all the time, and we have to guard
against that. And how do we do? Well, we got to go back to the armor of God and go back
to God's truth. Not your truth, not my truth, not what I believe or you believe or Sam believes
or anybody else, but what is God said is true. And then kind of build from there.
And something that I remember you saying, because it's always been there, clearly,
and I've known it, excuse me, but when we look at James, I think it's James 1, 8 that
says, resist the devil and he will flee from you. If you back up a verse, it says, submit
to God. Draw near to God. Sorry, draw near to God. Resist the devil and he will flee
from you. So we've got- He will flee.
He will flee, sorry, that's right. Not from you, he will flee.
He will flee. So draw near to God, he will draw near to you and then resist the devil.
Then 1 Peter 5, 11, it says, not 5, 11, excuse me, 1 Peter 5, 8 says, be of sober spirit,
be on the alert. Your adversary, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion seeking
someone to devour. But if you back up a verse, or sorry, if you back up two verses, it says,
therefore humble yourselves under the mighty hand of God so that he may exalt you at the
proper time, having cast all your anxiety on him because he cares about you. And then
be of sober spirit, be on the alert. Like, I don't see those verses as being isolated,
but rather sort of a direct correlation in if and then statement.
And let's go back to the kill, steal, and destroy.
Well, actually, I was about to, and it says-
Let's read the rest of the verse there.
Well it says, so verse 10, which is the steal, kill, and destroy, Jesus bookends it. So in
verse 9, it says, I am the door. If anyone enters through me, he will be saved and will
go in and out and find pasture. Verse 10, the thief comes only to steal, kill, and destroy.
Semicolon, thank you very much, Jesus, for using a semicolon. I came so that they would
have life and have it more abundantly. Or have it abundantly, excuse me, maybe not more
abundantly. I didn't mean to add the word there. But yeah, so I mean, all of those are
nestled in the idea that the only way that we as Christians can really combat Satan and
his wiles is under the submission of God.
Right, because God gives life. So Satan's trying to take it. He's trying to kill it,
steal it, and destroy it.
Okay.
But God gives it abundantly.
I want to press pause right here because I think this is something that, again, I don't
know how to word this politely, that I think far too often in a church setting, we focus
more on these big ideas, like we paint with a broad brush. I'm not saying you do this,
Brad, but we paint with a broad brush. For instance, God gives life. Satan's trying to
steal it. I think far too often in a church setting or a church conversational setting,
we think about the word life as meaning like to live or not to live, which I definitely
agree that that's part of the definition. But I also see life in the little bitty moments.
So God gives life, and where God gives life is everywhere and in every moment. And Satan,
from that perspective, is also trying to take away those little moments. It's not like,
to me, Brad, and again, maybe I'm being too elementary about this, but when you say God
gives life and Satan's trying to take that away, seriously, where my brain first goes
is that big picture idea, which to me completely glosses over the day to day. Does that make
sense?
So the word life, zo or zoe, however you want to pronounce it...
Zo-ee, Brad, zo-ee.
Is both a physical and spiritual existence. So if I would understand that right, it refers
to life in its fullest sense, encompassing both physical and spiritual dimensions. So
our physical life now, our eternal life now, and every other thing that life encompasses.
So from cellular biology to the universe.
Yeah, that's exactly right.
God gives life, and is giving life, and it's abundant, and that Satan is seeking to destroy
that. So yes, now here's one thing that I want to point out, it's kind of a little corner,
but I think it's important. Especially when we go in, okay, we talked about the family,
and we've talked about homosexuality and all that stuff, but we have to be careful about
it as the church, because Satan is very clever, and if he can't get us on one side, he'll
run over to the other side and pull us the other direction.
And this is another common narrative that I've heard very, very often. Go ahead, man.
So in the sense, so when we say God says homosexuality is sin, that's not his model for marriage,
that's not his model, it's wrong. So one of the things that we can, if we're not
careful, is we rely on our flesh, and then we want to come out very aggressively and
very angrily against the other side. When God warns us in James that the anger of man
does not bring about God's righteousness. So we need to be sharing the truth in grace
and love. We need to be seeing all that God's created people as bearing the image of God,
of people who Christ died for, who are no greater sinners than we were, or in one sense
outside of Christ are, and so need the same salvation that we need. But if we're not
careful, we will fall into Satan's plan of destruction, thinking that we're doing God's
will. And God says that, that there will be those, and he's telling the apostles and
disciples, there will be those who will take you and cast you out, thinking they're doing
God's service. So we have to be careful that we are, again, lovingly sharing the truth,
right? That we're standing on God's truth. So we're saying, look, sin is sin. One of
the things that we tend not to like, I think as Christians sometimes, is that gossip and
slander and those things are listed right up there with homosexuality and murder. But
we're a lot more okay with gossip, especially if we can turn it as a prayer request. But
God puts it on the same plane as those things which we are, again, just so militant. We
need to be about sharing the grace and love of Christ. And again, we need to do so in
truth and love. We cannot say the things that God has said are wrong are good. Because look
at that, back to James, right? We have old school LSD, lust, sin, death. Because lust
or desires, which brings about sin, and sin when it's completed, or what about it, brings
forth death. So that's Satan's destruction right there, right? Sin, no matter where and
how, no matter how small we think it is. There's no greater lie than the fact that there is
a little white lie. Like that's one of the greatest, I think, lies of Satan, is that
little white lies exist. There's no such thing. You know, that's like saying, well, we just
put a little bit of poison in your water. No, thank you.
Or Iacan powder.
Yeah, it's tasteless.
It's odorless. No, dude, I've never heard anyone say about the little white lie like
you just did. That's pretty profound. And yeah, you're exactly right that anything that
is for God, Satan is trying to do the opposite. So again, kind of coming back to when I heard
that, that Satan seeks to steal, kill, and destroy, and that he wants to tear apart families,
I remember thinking, okay, not that I disagree with it, but how? And here, like Brad, what
you're doing, like I say this, I've said this before on the show, you're being very direct
in a bunch of different areas. I think the thing that I would say is sort of monkeying
and weaseling, and that is really, really hard to crank up the conversation about is,
well, how does he actually do that? Like, how does that play out in marriages? How does
that play out in families? And lying is definitely one of them. But like,
So there's lying, right? And they're skewing the truth. So if I'm saying something that
is untrue, I say something to your sister, who's my wife, and I tell her something that's
untrue and I'm lying to her, right? So I'm lying. But if I'm believing something that's
untrue, that's still a lie, but it's not a lie. I'm spreading, I'm telling. I'm not being
a liar, but I'm believing a lie. And a lot of times I think that's where Satan does,
is he loves doubt. He loves to plant these seeds of doubt. Can I trust my spouse? And
then once those seeds are planted, or can I trust my kids or whatever, and once those
seeds are planted, then what tends to grow out of that, if we're not careful, is that
suspicion, and then we're going to go, you know, my wife may be going behind my back
to buy me a gift that she doesn't want me to know about, right? And she's got my children
in there, hey, we're keeping this secret from Dad because we're going to surprise him.
Sure.
But if I've got that seed of doubt planted in me, now I'm going to look at everything
they're doing as a deception that is, well, they're hiding something from me, and is
she having an affair?
It's malicious, yeah.
And so I think those things, Satan will use really small things. I think we look out for
the big things, right? There's a story about this guy who had a vineyard, and these big
foxes would come in and he'd run them out with a stick. One day, these cute little baby
foxes came in and they were adorable and they were so cute, and so he didn't run them out
with a stick. Who can run the baby fox out with a stick? That's just wrong. But then
he turned around and realized that they'd ate up his vineyard. See, he didn't see them
as the enemy because they were small. They were cute. It wasn't problematic. Satan,
more often than not, I think uses those things that fly under our radar than the huge things
that we're guarding against, right? We're looking for, we're ready for this full-on
army to show up at the gate. We're not looking for the sweet old lady who's bringing in heresy
or accusing, because that's what Satan does, right? He's accuser of the brethren. So,
oh, my friend who, so-and-so, who is constantly sowing seeds of doubt about my marriage, about
my wife, well, she did that, she said that, or he did that, or he said that, oh, that's
not loving. And sometimes it's not even that the people are intending to. Let me give you
an example that I'll share on your sister, which I think she'd be okay with, because
it's a learning curve.
She's about to be.
You know, one of her best friends in the world, you know, and they would be talking about
things that their husbands do. And Tabby loves her husband. And so I am the model, again,
that she tends to look for as, oh, this is, I like when he does this, this is good, and
her friend's husband weren't doing those things. So Tabby was unintentionally, though,
becoming overly critical of her friend's husband, because he wasn't me. And at one point her
friend went, I'm not married to your husband. I'm not married to Brad. I don't want to
be married to Brad. And you need to stop trying to make my husband your husband, you know,
in that sense. And Tabby really needed to hear that, because she wasn't acknowledging
she was doing that. But Satan will use little things like that. So sometimes the lies come
in not from the actual enemy, but from the friends who weren't intending to be an enemy.
And what I want to do, Brad, is seriously just go full circle here that this is how
important the community of Christians is as well. So in all of these scriptural cases
that we've got in 1 Peter 5 and John 10 and James 1, you know, we've got, again, we've
got the beginning of submit to God in some fashion, followed by basically this is how
you will defeat the wiles of Satan in, you know, whatever context. But beyond that, and
when I say beyond that, this is a big beyond that, I think it'd be really easy to create
a very, very sexy argument on all I need is Jesus and nothing else, zero. And I would
be willing to say there's a very, very large amount of truth in that. But there's also
some, there's also a lie that you're believing in that, which is that you need, which is
that you don't need Christ's church. All you need is Jesus. I don't need, that's it. And
so to me, the full circle here is the community of followers, the community of faith. How
is it that we are actually to continue or maybe not continue, how are we to deepen and
protect ourselves against the little bitties that you're talking about, these itty bitty
seeds? And I would say, Brad, that we submit to God and we have to do that. And sometimes
we're going to be great at it. Sometimes we're going to suck at it. But we need to be a part
of the communion of faith to have not just accountability, not just to have fellow disciplers,
but to also have, as you mentioned with Tabitha, somebody to speak into your life to say, whoa,
time out. You're taking this in a direction that it doesn't really need to go.
So I'm going to agree with you and disagree with you at the same time. Because all we
need is Jesus. But what we want to do, what some people want to do, is separate Christ's
church from Christ. He is the head of the body. So you can't come talk to my head without
talking to my body. You can't come be a part of me and divorce part of me. It's all or
nothing. So Christ is enough. But you can't separate Christ from His church. And again,
I look at the model of marriage. There's me and my wife. The Bible says that we come together
and we become one flesh. We're one unit. We're one. You're going to find it very problematic
to be my friend and despise my wife. I'm just going to tell you right now, that's not going
to work.
Why?
Because she is me and I am her. I am in her, she is in me. And again, this is a family
show. So we're talking about it in a spiritual sense.
Trying to find my happy place right now, Brett.
So I think that's the thing. We're trying to separate two inseparable things. If God
is the head of His church, and again, then the church is the body. You can't do that.
Now again, can I be a Christian without going to church? Yes, you can be saved. The thief
on the cross never went to church. However, can I be an obedient Christian? No. No. And
not go to church.
Thank you for clarifying. I definitely did not mean to convolute the argument, but I
think it would be an easy out. And I think that that actually, I think that that would
fall in line with what you're talking about. That's one of these little bitty seeds. And
it's a sexy one. It looks like it's helping.
We want to define that as something it's not. Again, getting back to Galatians, that's part
of where the Judaizers were coming in. They were going, okay, well, you're Christian,
well, you've got to be circumcised. Because you've got to follow the law. You've got to
be part of it.
And I mentioned that I'm going through Titus. The Cretans did the same thing. Yeah, go ahead.
They're adding to the gospel. And it seems like it's not a big deal. And that's one of
the things. It's not a big deal. Well, then Paul comes in and he goes, no, not only is
it a big deal, you're believing the gospel that's not the gospel. And then he says twice,
and I think I said this to you maybe last episode, like, anybody who's going to preach
the gospel that's not the gospel should be cursed. I say again, they should be cursed.
I mean, this is very strong verbiage. Because what seems like a small thing is actually
a big thing. Because a lot of times Satan works in those small things to undermine those
things. So there's, I mean, again, to me, I think that's the answer that I have for
you is how does Satan do this? A thousand different ways, a million different ways.
A thousand different ways. It's exactly right. Yes.
With small things. Because we're guarding against the big foxes. Sometimes I'm too careful,
Jay. Sometimes I'm too careful with the words that I say and I'm afraid. So I'm just going
to throw this out there.
You throw it, man.
There have been people who are Christian people whose son or daughter came out as gay, as
a homosexual, LGBTQ, whatever. And it's a huge deal. And then they turn around and,
okay, now they're in a relationship that is heterosexual, but they're living together,
they're sleeping together, having sex, they're doing all this.
Exactly what you're going to do.
And then they're happy. They're like, okay, well, at least they're not gay. No, they're
just as far away from the truth of Christ. They're just as much struggling with sin.
It's just a different sin, but it's a sin that is more acceptable. It's a sin that's
natural. All sin is natural in the sense of our humanity. All sin is pulling us toward
our own desires. Right. So sin is there, so let's not go, oh, well, because for us, what's
a lesser sin? It's not. It's just as much against the family. It's just as much attacking
the life of God and the truth of God and the life that God wants for the people. And I
think we've got to acknowledge that. We've got to acknowledge that, that going over the
circle and just going to a different sin, which is keeping them equidistance from God,
they're just as far away from God as they were before, but we're more okay with it.
Or the opposite could be true for some people. Probably not most, but I mean, in a sense,
acknowledge A and B and use some other sin. And it's just, you know, we've got to acknowledge
those things that they're both wrong. They both need to be, you know, again, called out
in grace and love, with grace and love. Because I think that's, to me too, one of the biggest
things I think that most Christians that I know struggle with is how do you stand against
sin in grace and love? Because we're really good at standing against sin with sin, sinfully.
And then I think Satan wins. Because when we burden our anger, when we're splashing
out hatred and all of these things, God says the anger of man does not bring about the
righteousness of God. Now, he tells us there's things to be angry about, anger and don't
sin, but we struggle with the latter part, the sin. So, because when our anger becomes
sin or brings us to sin, then we need to turn back to Christ and repent. We need to do that.
And okay, redo, let's try this again, because we're not doing it right. Our life, our life
as the church to those who are homosexual or those who are liars or drunkers or prostitutes
or whatever, drug abusers, gluttonous, whatever sin, our life as the church should show them
the love of Christ. Come and be healed. Come and have life. Not be beating people to death.
Well, and what I was going to say, Brad, was you mentioned the way that if someone's sin
and dealing with that brings you to sin, I think, I'm not going to use the word natural
because I just don't know the source of it, but it feels natural. It feels like the acceptable
opposite to use condemnation as the way to clean it. When in actuality, that's not even
up to us. We don't get to do that. And if we're already off topic, then we're off topic.
But how does Satan seek to steal, kill and destroy the family unit? I think that, and
you mentioned there's a billion different ways. And I understood that it was going to
be a messy topic from the get go. I knew that. But I don't think that Satan only focuses
on the family unit. I think he also focuses on the individual apart from the family, which
actually is at least in concept. I don't think we're very good about thinking about this
from day to day, but it's also that right there is in concept, in exact parallel to
saying I can be a Christian and not go to church. You can't separate Christ from his
church in the same way that if Satan doesn't just focus on attacking the family unit, but
attacking, say, me and Shara or you and Tabitha or whatever the case is, and almost splitting
us as individuals dealing with whatever we're dealing with apart from each other, that is
the same in concept. And so I've got to teach in eight minutes. But again, I knew that this
was going to be a messy topic. So do you have any closing thoughts, Brad? What do you think?
So let me close this thought, which is totally not on par with everything else that we've
talked about, but looking at the scripture we're talking about, because it brings us,
I think, full circle to something we talked about a few weeks ago. Verse 12, he who is
a hired hand and not a shepherd, who's not the owner of the sheep, sees the wolf coming
and leaves the sheep and flees and the wolf snatches them and scatters them. He flees
because he's a hired hand and is not concerned about the sheep. That's one of the reasons
why I think it's important that as a pastor, people don't look at it as my job, because
if it's my job, I'm a hired hand. And when the wolf comes, then I'm going to run, because
it's just my job, and I'll find another job somewhere else. It's not worth my life. Whereas
if it's my calling and I'm part of the family of God and I'm an under-shepherd, under-scare,
now it's my family. It's my family, it's my calling, it's not my job. It's my job,
and I'm going to run off. But again, I think it's a small thing that if we're not careful,
the end of itself may be innocuous, and that's sometimes how Satan works. The end itself
is not an issue, but it may grow into something like, oh well, the pastor's just a hired guy.
Well, if that's the case, then when the wolves come, better not run to your pastor because
he's just going to run.
He's going to run.
Yeah.
Don't run. Unless you run to Jesus.
Unless you run to Jesus, then you can run.
Always run to Jesus.
Whew.
Wow, that was heavy. It's crazy.
That was really heavy. Listeners, thank you so much for hanging out with us. Sorry that...
Go listen to our game one. That was a lot lighter. If you need something lighter now,
go watch an episode of the Looney Tunes or something. Get this heaviness.
I hope that, Brad, I hope that this ep came out the same way that last week's ep did because
last week's ep, I thought for sure was going to... I thought it was going to be a dumpster
fire. I went back and listened to it and I was like, dude, that came out really well.
So I'm hoping that this week's ep does the same thing. But listeners, thank you so much
for hanging out with us. If you're new to the show, please rate, review, subscribe to
the show so that you can get notifications when there's a new show that drops. We will
soon, if you're in the West Tennessee... No, no, not West Tennessee area. If you're a listener
to the show, we will very soon... Brad and I will soon have a YouTube channel. We are
going to be posting up all of our podcasts on YouTube so that you can... Because apparently
people like to do this, but you can watch us have a conversation.
They will look at us. You can look at us. That's right.
That's so pretty. Brad, by the way... So today's February 20th. Brad is using a brand
new webcam and I will be upgrading mine here extremely soon as well. But yeah, so be on
the lookout for that announcement when we've got a YouTube channel, but share our show.
Let every people know, let everybody that you know, know about this show. And please
let us know what your thoughts are. Brad, we've had a wonderful response in the last
several weeks about video games and last week's episode, which was, who's somebody that has
been central to the spiritual maturity. This is really cool that the audience is starting
to engage with this. It's really fun. But yeah, let us know what your thoughts are.
If there are topics that you want us to tackle, we have an email account, menchurchstuffatgmail.com.
I'm going to guess, Brad, that by the summer... I think by the summer it's sort of a soft
goal for me that we can at least have a website up. But no, the YouTube channel is certainly
going to happen before the summer for sure. And if you are in the West Tennessee area,
then be also on the lookout for our YouTube shows to be played at the Green Frog Coffee
locations. So yeah, there's a lot of stuff happening and yeah, come back for next week
for another show. Be on that, Brad. I love you, buddy.
Love you too.
Listeners, we love you. We will catch you next time.