1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:17,320 Welcome. This is the Men Church Stuff Podcast. 2 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:22,360 This is the show where brothers-in-law DJ Culp and Brad Coleman talk about stuff from 3 00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:27,500 our perspective as men. It's a show for anyone who wants to hear how Christians interact 4 00:00:27,500 --> 00:00:32,720 with the world. And don't worry, we're real. We've grown up in church and we want to share 5 00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:39,520 our experiences with you. We'll talk life stuff, church stuff, man stuff, and stuff 6 00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:46,760 stuff. Here we go. 7 00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:51,920 Greetings listeners here and there and everywhere all across the land. This is the Men Church 8 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:59,000 Stuff Podcast. I am one of your hosts, DJ Culp, as always here with my beloved brother-in-law, 9 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:04,040 Brad Coleman. Brad, what's up, man? 10 00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:05,040 It's cold. 11 00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:07,760 Dude, it's so awesome, isn't it? 12 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:08,760 It's not. 13 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:09,760 No, it is. It is. 14 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:12,360 How cold is it there where you are? 15 00:01:12,360 --> 00:01:17,680 I think on my way into work today, I think it was 16 degrees, 13 degrees. 16 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:22,960 16? 16? Okay. So taking Carrie Beth to school because she had a big project board she had 17 00:01:22,960 --> 00:01:29,640 to take. So didn't have her ride the bus. The truck said it was one. 18 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:36,400 That's awesome. I want to say that's so cool, but I mean, it actually is. Yeah, I love that 19 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:37,400 kind of weather. 20 00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:42,680 No, well, you can have it. See, I lived in Northwest Ohio for seven years. I feel like 21 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:47,880 calling my friends and being like, hey, your weather came down. It's in my front yard. 22 00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:48,880 You can come pick it up. 23 00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:49,880 Yeah, you want it back. 24 00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:55,960 Yeah, because it ain't good here. Take it home. 25 00:01:55,960 --> 00:01:56,960 Yeah. 26 00:01:56,960 --> 00:02:03,320 I like it cold. I don't like it that cold. 27 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:09,440 I do like it this cold, but to give the caveat, I mean, and I was talking to my students this 28 00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:17,000 morning about it. I like this weather. It's uncomfortable, but I mean, like, it gives 29 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:23,520 me opportunity to bundle up. And I love, man, I'm serious way more than, than, you know, 30 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:25,000 the dead summer heat. 31 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:27,920 Oh, I'll take this over 100 degrees. 32 00:02:27,920 --> 00:02:37,280 Oh, any day, any day. But I love the freshness and the crispness, crisp, crisp-ness of the 33 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:42,880 air. Like, it's so, it's just so clean, you know, and, and- 34 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:44,880 Yeah, cause everything is dead. 35 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:47,200 Yeah, everything's dead. 36 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:49,160 Everything that was flying in the air before. 37 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:52,160 It's just gone. 38 00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:53,200 It froze to death. 39 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:58,160 I will say this except for the flu. Like the flu and, and, you know, other, other illnesses 40 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:01,840 and, and, and sicknesses, those aren't dead and those are flying around. 41 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:07,440 You know, it's incredible to me, and this is completely off topic of what we're talking 42 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:12,520 about, but you know what's incredible to me is that so many of those diseases and things 43 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:16,320 cannot exist outside of a host for very long. 44 00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:17,320 Yeah. 45 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:22,760 Like 24 to 48 hours, like 48 hours is a long time for a virus or something like that to, 46 00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:25,400 to last on a surface outside of a host. 47 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:26,400 Right. 48 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:29,960 But, but yet we can't, we can't get rid of them. 49 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:38,760 But yeah, they've got a host and I mean, as, as we mentioned on last week's podcast, like 50 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:44,240 dude that flu, it found me and, and it was like, we're setting up camp. 51 00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:51,480 It's party time, you know, like, like we're, we're, we're hiring, we're hiring, you know, 52 00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:53,280 all sorts of workers. 53 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:58,520 We've, we've got, you know, we've got these, all these promotional offers bring like come 54 00:03:58,520 --> 00:03:59,520 one, come all. 55 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:03,000 That's, and it, and it stayed, it stuck around. 56 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:06,000 No, you're right. 57 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:09,560 I've never, I don't think I've really ever thought about that. 58 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:15,400 But yeah, I mean, if it doesn't have a host, it dies pretty quick. 59 00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:19,120 And the best way that I've ever heard, I think maybe I've said this on the show before, but 60 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:29,440 the best way I've ever heard a description of children is that they are Petri dishes. 61 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:32,560 Just for growing bacteria. 62 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:38,800 I remember in college studying, again, I was studying education and especially like elementary 63 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:39,800 education. 64 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:47,240 And like looking at that and they were talking about how, like when, when a child sneezes 65 00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:51,240 versus when an adult sneezes, like, and I mean, it's just saying like, just if they're 66 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:54,200 both the same, like they don't cover and all that. 67 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:55,200 Yeah. 68 00:04:55,200 --> 00:05:01,040 And then the child has like so many, like more germs because they don't have the antibodies 69 00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:03,960 built up that a healthy adult does. 70 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:08,320 And so, yeah, I mean, and I don't remember, but it's something like 10,000 to like a million 71 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:09,320 or something. 72 00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:10,320 Goodness. 73 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:13,640 Wouldn't you be the guy that, like, wouldn't you hate to be the guy that had to count all 74 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:14,640 that? 75 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:20,880 You know, like looking like your whole, your whole career is staring through a microscope 76 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:23,400 going, all right, I don't think I counted that one. 77 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:25,400 That's 178,732. 78 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:31,360 Hey, Jim, your lunch is 699. 79 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:32,360 699. 80 00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:35,360 No, no, I can't do it. 81 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:39,360 What are you doing to me? 82 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:45,360 I would hate to been that guy when like technology came out and took his job. 83 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:48,440 Like yeah, it's like, you know what? 84 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:55,200 I was the guy that did all of that and now nobody cares. 85 00:05:55,200 --> 00:05:56,560 Nobody cares. 86 00:05:56,560 --> 00:05:59,120 They stopped caring before I was able to publish this. 87 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:00,120 Why? 88 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:01,120 Why am I doing this? 89 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:05,680 The guy in the machine that did it in three seconds. 90 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:12,560 Hey, Brad, before we dive into our topic, I think there's a little business we need 91 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:13,560 to take care of, don't you? 92 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:15,200 I think it's coffee time. 93 00:06:15,200 --> 00:06:17,080 I think it's coffee time. 94 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:18,080 Coffee time! 95 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:19,080 I'll cue the music. 96 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:24,280 All right, listeners, if you're a regular to the show, you will know we've got a collaboration 97 00:06:24,280 --> 00:06:28,560 with the Green Frog Coffee Company here in Jackson, Tennessee. 98 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:32,480 The North Store general manager is Shelby. 99 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:34,560 Shelby, shout out. 100 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:36,080 Wonderful gal. 101 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:39,840 Loves helping us out and we love helping them out. 102 00:06:39,840 --> 00:06:47,560 So if on Monday, January 27, if you want to drop by the Green Frog Coffee, coffee store, 103 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:55,480 the North Store on Union University Drive, you get $2 off if you use the code word church. 104 00:06:55,480 --> 00:06:56,760 Code word church. 105 00:06:56,760 --> 00:06:57,760 Church. 106 00:06:57,760 --> 00:06:59,360 Yeah, church. 107 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:02,940 Because we talk about church and we do talk about other stuff. 108 00:07:02,940 --> 00:07:09,280 My favorite to this day, still Brad, my favorite code word is Brad. 109 00:07:09,280 --> 00:07:11,080 But today the code word is church. 110 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:16,760 You get $2 off your order, whatever it is that you want all the Lid Long Day. 111 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:20,880 And Green Frog Coffee has great stuff. 112 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:32,400 I have forgotten to mention this, that right now actually they still have bags of like, 113 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:34,920 it's not really a cappuccino, but it is a coffee drink mix. 114 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:42,160 It's one of their favorite or they're big sellers called Dirty Snowman. 115 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:53,000 And Shara loves, I guess I should say, Shara loves the Dirty Snowman. 116 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:56,320 She loves the mix. 117 00:07:56,320 --> 00:08:00,840 It's a little too sweet for me, but it's got some toffee, hint of toffee in it with some 118 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:01,840 white chocolate. 119 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:02,840 It's a really, really good thing. 120 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:07,040 But yeah, you can buy that mix to take home with you. 121 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:11,840 So again, $2 off using code word church at the North Store of Green Frog Coffee Company 122 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:15,960 where they are built on Christian values and they have coffee that is so good. 123 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:17,840 Brad, how good is it? 124 00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:19,440 A dirty snowman would drink it. 125 00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:21,240 A dirty snowman would drink it. 126 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:24,960 Not any regular snowman, a dirty one. 127 00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:35,800 Oh, and P.S., Brad, their house blend of like, listeners, if you go to Green Frog Coffee, 128 00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:42,920 you can buy, I think they're two pound bags of their house roasted coffee beans. 129 00:08:42,920 --> 00:08:46,160 Dude, their house blend is awesome. 130 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:49,400 Dude, it's so good. 131 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:50,560 It's one of the best. 132 00:08:50,560 --> 00:08:53,360 It's actually one of the best roasts. 133 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:54,360 It's a darker roast. 134 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:58,040 So listeners, if you guys are dark coffee fans, it's a great one to buy. 135 00:08:58,040 --> 00:09:02,440 Dude, it's wonderful. 136 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:03,440 But there we go. 137 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:05,680 So, Brad, let's dive into our topic. 138 00:09:05,680 --> 00:09:15,240 We are talking about a quote today from one of the former presidents of Lifeway, Mr., 139 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:19,080 or I guess technically Dr., Tom Rayner. 140 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:23,480 I've actually met him, a real cool guy, his son, Sam Rayner. 141 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:25,360 Shout out to Sam. 142 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:31,360 Sam Rayner was the pastor for a short time at our church in Murray, First Baptist Church 143 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:34,040 of Murray. 144 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:40,000 But I do Facebook follow with Tom. 145 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:46,600 He's a pretty prolific author and has a lot of writings on the church, the health of the 146 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:51,800 church, how the church's interaction with congregations. 147 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:56,880 I've not read a lot of his stuff, but I know it seems to be that's kind of his thing. 148 00:09:56,880 --> 00:10:03,220 I like some of his smaller books like, So You Want to Be a Welcoming Church or Autopsy 149 00:10:03,220 --> 00:10:06,520 of a Dead Church. 150 00:10:06,520 --> 00:10:08,200 Very insightful. 151 00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:11,920 I love them because they're not huge. 152 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:17,880 They're short, very to the point kind of things. 153 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:23,360 I think he cuts out a lot of just fluff that you would have in a lot of books. 154 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:28,800 And so it's something that you can give people even that aren't big readers. 155 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:29,800 Sure. 156 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:35,240 I've never read any of his books, but based on some of the few things that I've read and 157 00:10:35,240 --> 00:10:41,000 certainly a lot of quotes that I've read from him, he seems really, really poignant. 158 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:49,080 And kind of his, I'm going to get nerdy here, but his thesis statements that he'll post 159 00:10:49,080 --> 00:10:53,160 that'll circulate on Facebook, like the one we're going to read today, it's like they're 160 00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:54,160 real... 161 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:58,680 I'm trying to think of how to phrase it. 162 00:10:58,680 --> 00:11:07,600 They're very, very succinct, very easily accessible, but clearly you get a much bigger idea as 163 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:10,680 to what he's driving at just through them. 164 00:11:10,680 --> 00:11:15,240 So the quote today that we want to discuss says this, when the preferences of the church 165 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:21,800 members are greater than their passion for the gospel, the church is dying. 166 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:25,080 When the preferences of the church members are greater than their passion for the gospel, 167 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:26,680 the church is dying. 168 00:11:26,680 --> 00:11:32,280 So here's where I think at least we can start, Brad. 169 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:38,840 I want to know what your experience is, just as a pastor looking at the churches that you've 170 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:39,840 been a part of. 171 00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:46,360 So whether it's a senior pastor or being a youth minister, because my experience with 172 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:51,840 some of your answers more than likely are going to just simply be... 173 00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:56,640 With my dad being a pastor, I've always heard dad say this, but my experience has 174 00:11:56,640 --> 00:11:58,800 certainly been from the congregation. 175 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:06,760 I just want to know as a quote unquote employee of the church, how have you seen the truth 176 00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:09,760 of that? 177 00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:13,440 Well I would say some of it is the problem of looking at me as an employee of the church. 178 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:16,520 I mean in some sense I am, but I'm not. 179 00:12:16,520 --> 00:12:17,800 I don't work for the church. 180 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:19,600 I serve the church. 181 00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:20,600 I work for... 182 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:22,760 God is my employer, if you will. 183 00:12:22,760 --> 00:12:31,800 And the Bible has called us to get our livelihood as those who are called to the gospel through 184 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:34,720 the gospel. 185 00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:42,160 So I think some of those things, the way we define them and look at them, because if the 186 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:50,000 people of the church look at me as an employee of the church and they're members of the church, 187 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:56,520 well now it's like when I go to Walgreens, hey, you work for me. 188 00:12:56,520 --> 00:13:00,920 And if you're filling my prescription, so on some level you work for me. 189 00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:05,440 And if I don't like the prescription or the way that you're doing it, I'm going to go 190 00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:08,360 take my business elsewhere. 191 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:16,400 And so we tend to frame, I think, the way that church dynamics from a business standpoint. 192 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:21,160 Some of those things do travel or at least are worth looking at. 193 00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:26,240 But when we've got that model where the church is a business and the pastor is like the manager 194 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:30,200 or the CEO and all of those things, I think you get in trouble. 195 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:36,120 And I think that's where we get some of these problems with looking at our preferences versus 196 00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:37,120 not. 197 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:43,280 Now, and arguably it's a human nature and nature thing. 198 00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:48,560 I don't know when we start calling ourselves members instead of disciples. 199 00:13:48,560 --> 00:13:53,480 And if I were disciples and they met together. 200 00:13:53,480 --> 00:14:01,400 That's a good word, dude, because the word member definitely, there's a connotation that 201 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:05,440 almost makes it sound like, well, I have an investment, so. 202 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:07,280 What do I get? 203 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:08,560 Yeah, what do I get? 204 00:14:08,560 --> 00:14:09,560 Yeah, right. 205 00:14:09,560 --> 00:14:10,560 Yeah. 206 00:14:10,560 --> 00:14:14,480 And I'm sorry to use the word as an employee of the church. 207 00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:23,160 I was really framing it more from just the idea that you are paid directly from the church, 208 00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:29,600 which really comes from tithe. 209 00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:33,400 Or at least is, I shouldn't say comes from tithe, but is. 210 00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:37,160 No, I mean, well, it does. 211 00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:42,960 When people tithe to the church, it goes in and that's part of what takes care of me and 212 00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:43,960 my family. 213 00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:45,840 We don't get those tithes directly. 214 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:48,840 They go into the church and then there's my pay. 215 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:54,520 So your tithe isn't coming to me if you're tithing to 1st Baptist Murphy directly, but 216 00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:58,240 it is supporting the pay package. 217 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:02,120 And again, it's not wrong necessarily to say I'm an employee of the church. 218 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:05,240 The government would definitely agree with you in one sense. 219 00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:09,720 In the other, I'm an independent contractor of the church, so the government can't decide 220 00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:12,400 what I am. 221 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:18,440 But I think biblically, the way that I would understand it is I'm called to be a pastor. 222 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:19,840 I'm called to preach the gospel. 223 00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:23,360 I'm called to serve. 224 00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:29,200 And then it's the local church's responsibility to support my family and me so that I can 225 00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:31,640 continue to do that. 226 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:38,960 When you look at that, it's a calling from God and it's the responsibility of the local 227 00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:44,280 church to support their pastor so that he can continue to be their pastor and do the 228 00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:48,120 things that God has called pastors to do. 229 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:52,800 And so when you look at it that way, I think though it's a shift of paradigm. 230 00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:56,360 I mean, I know to some people it's just words. 231 00:15:56,360 --> 00:15:58,880 You're speaking semantics. 232 00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:03,840 But I think it just depends on how those words are hitting with us. 233 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:07,080 Because again, I've had those situations. 234 00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:12,620 So I say all that to go with I think sometimes that's the issue where people get so caught 235 00:16:12,620 --> 00:16:20,680 up in their preferences because we live in a world of commercialism. 236 00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:25,320 We live in a world of go find that thing and hey, if you don't like Walgreens, go to CVS. 237 00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:30,680 And if you don't like CVS, go to Walmart and you have all of these choices and find what 238 00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:31,680 you like. 239 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:40,360 And we have an iPhone and an iPad and iTunes and all of these things are I, I, I, I, I. 240 00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:41,360 Yeah. 241 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:50,760 Well, and again, for me, what I'm hearing you say relating back to the delineation of 242 00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:53,280 employee of the church and the member of the church. 243 00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:55,640 I just hear you saying ROI, right? 244 00:16:55,640 --> 00:17:00,600 What just on every product that we could possibly think of, what's my what's the return on my 245 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:01,600 investment? 246 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:02,600 Yeah. 247 00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:03,600 Well, right. 248 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:04,600 And what's it? 249 00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:14,760 So and I like what Jeff Willem, my senior pastor in Ohio, what he said. 250 00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:17,920 Church membership is not about special privilege. 251 00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:21,660 It's about special responsibility. 252 00:17:21,660 --> 00:17:25,080 And so like I think that is so big. 253 00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:32,360 It's like we got that mindset is like God has put us in the in the local church as individuals 254 00:17:32,360 --> 00:17:36,080 as part of the body to serve the body. 255 00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:37,080 Yeah. 256 00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:43,720 And then outwardly, you know, so we're building one another up in Christ and then we're sharing 257 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:45,200 the gospel outwardly. 258 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:49,520 We're, you know, and so we're, we're sharing the gospel. 259 00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:52,880 God does the work and then that's how the body grows. 260 00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:59,880 You know, we as the body are obedient to God to do what he's called us to do. 261 00:17:59,880 --> 00:18:04,120 But he's the one, you know, one, one so's one waters, but God gives the increase. 262 00:18:04,120 --> 00:18:05,120 Yeah. 263 00:18:05,120 --> 00:18:09,760 And so now we all have our preferences. 264 00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:13,360 We all like what we like. 265 00:18:13,360 --> 00:18:20,840 And might I add, might I add as an, as just a quick interjection in like when, when I think 266 00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:24,840 about this topic, I also include pastors in that. 267 00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:26,880 Yeah, no, absolutely. 268 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:32,560 Because I have to be mindful because I'm, I'm still part of fallen humanity. 269 00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:33,560 Yeah. 270 00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:38,400 I'm redeemed through Christ, but I have a flesh that is still struggles in and it's 271 00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:39,400 sin. 272 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:40,400 Yeah. 273 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:44,200 And it's not going to inherit the eternal life, this flesh is going to die and go back 274 00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:45,200 to the dust. 275 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:46,200 I get a new body. 276 00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:53,000 You know, so right, there is that struggle with everything from, from pride to what I 277 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:54,440 want and all those things. 278 00:18:54,440 --> 00:19:01,560 So when God calls us to die to ourself, which is one of the biggest things that he calls 279 00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:06,040 us to do, and it's also one of the hardest things. 280 00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:08,760 And you know, somebody said it this way. 281 00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:11,800 It's that, you know, God calls us to be a living sacrifice. 282 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:15,000 The problem with the living sacrifice is it keeps crawling off the altar. 283 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:16,000 Yeah. 284 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:18,040 I don't want to get burned. 285 00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:19,040 Stop it. 286 00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:20,040 Yeah, that's true, man. 287 00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:23,160 You know, so that's a really good point. 288 00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:24,160 Yeah. 289 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:31,800 So there's not, so let's, let's go one that I think is just so generic that just about 290 00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:35,800 every church has probably dealt with it at some point or another. 291 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:37,400 And that's, that's the music. 292 00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:39,600 I really thought you were going to say the color of the carpet. 293 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:40,600 No, no. 294 00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:41,600 I really thought you were going to go there. 295 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:46,560 I think there's a lot of, no, no, the music, because I think music's big. 296 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:52,640 I think the way that we, because music is a great gift from God. 297 00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:53,640 I agree, Brad. 298 00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:56,240 You do, you know. 299 00:19:56,240 --> 00:20:00,120 But you probably also agree that everybody doesn't like the same music. 300 00:20:00,120 --> 00:20:02,960 Yes, I completely, obviously. 301 00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:03,960 Yeah. 302 00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:11,320 And that's why there is this, this, just this beautiful array of so many different styles 303 00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:12,320 and kinds of music. 304 00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:18,640 And some of them I don't like, but, but I appreciate, at least most of them, that they're 305 00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:21,040 there, even if I don't like them. 306 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:22,040 Yeah. 307 00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:27,200 So there's definitely ones that I like more than others. 308 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:31,840 So everybody that comes in the church is going to have their preference on music. 309 00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:42,520 And when we make the music about what I want, then we're going to have struggle. 310 00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:49,400 Because the more people we get in the church, the more opinions we have on the music. 311 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:52,640 And I like the old, I like the new, I want blended. 312 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:54,240 I want blended my way. 313 00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:55,360 What does blended even mean? 314 00:20:55,360 --> 00:20:56,360 What does old mean? 315 00:20:56,360 --> 00:20:57,360 What does new mean? 316 00:20:57,360 --> 00:20:58,360 Yep. 317 00:20:58,360 --> 00:21:05,440 Every generation of the church, especially when you come to start to see that structure 318 00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:10,640 of the church and the structure of music, has struggled with that every time the generations 319 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:11,640 change, right? 320 00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:15,120 Because we tend to change that. 321 00:21:15,120 --> 00:21:19,280 And sometimes we just, man, they just outright just call it ungodly for a while. 322 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:20,800 Did you know that when... 323 00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:24,600 Amazing Grace, Amazing Grace, that's a classic hymn, that's the one that we want to hear. 324 00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:25,600 And I love Amazing Grace. 325 00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:30,160 But do you know when it first came out, like there was a lot of churches that wouldn't 326 00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:31,160 play it? 327 00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:32,160 Yep. 328 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:33,160 I mean, you probably do know this. 329 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:34,160 I do know that, yeah. 330 00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:35,160 Yeah, because it was set to a bar tune. 331 00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:36,160 Uh-huh. 332 00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:39,200 And it was accused of being too worldly. 333 00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:47,520 So dude, Martin Luther, like one of the very first, I almost said Salters, but one of the 334 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:57,040 very first really hymns that he wrote, chorales that he wrote, Mighty Fortresses Are God, 335 00:21:57,040 --> 00:21:59,520 that is a bar tune. 336 00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:04,560 And what he did was he removed the words that they were singing, wrote his own. 337 00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:15,100 So yeah, I mean, that kind of cycle has happened for hundreds and hundreds of years. 338 00:22:15,100 --> 00:22:21,200 And it's going to probably, shamefully on some level, continue to happen. 339 00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:24,920 Well, maybe it's not shamefully, it's an opportunity. 340 00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:25,920 It's an opportunity, yeah. 341 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:26,920 I think it's debatable. 342 00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:27,920 You know what I love? 343 00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:29,680 This is what I love. 344 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:34,220 I love when there is someone who likes the old hymns. 345 00:22:34,220 --> 00:22:35,320 They love the old hymns. 346 00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:38,160 That's what they'd rather have a singing. 347 00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:47,760 But they will sing along and praise along with a newer worship song that isn't the style 348 00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:48,760 they want. 349 00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:49,760 Right. 350 00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:56,760 Because I think it's an opportunity for us to realize that it's not about what music 351 00:22:56,760 --> 00:22:58,260 that we're playing. 352 00:22:58,260 --> 00:23:01,800 That music itself is not the worship. 353 00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:05,800 Our heart turned to God is the worship. 354 00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:15,560 Well, and I mean, Paul even alludes to that, not with worship, but it's not the love chapter. 355 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:21,600 I'm trying to remember which chapter it is where he mentions that if I speak in angelic 356 00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:26,760 tongues, if I do all sorts of different things and I don't have love, then it's all vain. 357 00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:28,240 No, that is love chapter. 358 00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:29,240 That's 13. 359 00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:30,240 It is love chapter. 360 00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:31,240 Okay. 361 00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:32,240 1 Corinthians 13. 362 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:33,240 13, yeah, right. 363 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:39,720 It's sounding brass or like a clanging single. 364 00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:46,740 But the idea though is, and I'm going to say something that is probably going to be extremely 365 00:23:46,740 --> 00:23:53,720 controversial to a lot, specifically to this line of topic, but I would even argue that 366 00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:59,760 Brad, if that's true, then you could be singing a Christian song, having words that are coming 367 00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:02,720 out about Christ and you're not worshiping. 368 00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:08,960 Because I think the basic underlying premises, well, if it's sacred, right, if it's for the 369 00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:11,080 church, then it's worship music. 370 00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:12,080 Wrong. 371 00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:13,080 No, it's not. 372 00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:14,080 Music is music. 373 00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:15,080 That's it. 374 00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:24,520 And now, does music have like a transcendent type of characteristic to it? 375 00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:31,320 I would argue yes, but it's still based upon the person's heart, regardless of what's coming 376 00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:32,320 out of their mouth. 377 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:33,320 Right. 378 00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:45,840 Well, we don't want to mistake the way that the music we like makes us feel with a spiritualness. 379 00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:47,440 I don't know how better. 380 00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:48,440 So here's the example. 381 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:49,440 Let me just give you this. 382 00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:50,440 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 383 00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:51,440 I'm with you. 384 00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:52,440 Yeah. 385 00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:58,280 There was a, I saw this post from a girl who had grown up in church and she's like, in 386 00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:03,280 the music and in church where they, you know, it was worship style music. 387 00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:10,480 And she was like, you know, I really just thought it was the spirit that was pumping 388 00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:12,520 me up. 389 00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:17,320 And then I went to a secular concert and I felt the same thing. 390 00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:22,280 Now, I know there's probably some people that may be listening, like, yeah, see, that's 391 00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:24,280 why we need to go back to the old hymns. 392 00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:25,280 No. 393 00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:26,280 Right. 394 00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:29,400 And I think those hymns is the way, that's the way those hymns make you feel. 395 00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:30,400 That's exactly right. 396 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:31,400 Yes. 397 00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:37,160 And if you go to a similar secular concert where those words... 398 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:46,680 So, my thing is, is the hymn, is the song, is the thing that we're using for worship, 399 00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:51,960 are the words that we are saying, are they truthful and are they glorifying to God? 400 00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:52,960 Right. 401 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:56,240 And, you know, I know some people that they don't like some of the... 402 00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:59,880 And they call it newer, but really for us, it's older. 403 00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:04,880 The, you know, the thing where they just, oh, hey, it's a song where there's just 11 404 00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:10,440 times we're gonna repeat, you know, holy, holy, holy, are you Lord God Almighty? 405 00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:13,680 Which always makes me laugh because I'm like, you've read Revelation, right? 406 00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:14,680 Yeah. 407 00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:15,680 Yeah. 408 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:16,680 Because that's actually what they do. 409 00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:19,680 That's all they say over and over. 410 00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:24,360 There's four beings who just, you know, all day long say, holy, holy, holy is the Lord 411 00:26:24,360 --> 00:26:26,360 God Almighty who was and is and is to come. 412 00:26:26,360 --> 00:26:27,760 They just repeat it. 413 00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:28,760 Yeah. 414 00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:29,760 Yeah. 415 00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:32,480 So, yeah, so the worship, though, it's about the heart. 416 00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:38,640 So when we mistake it for, I like this, then we've missed what worship is. 417 00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:39,640 Right. 418 00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:43,440 Because worship is not us liking the music we're singing. 419 00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:48,720 Worship is about us turning our heart toward God and worshiping Him and looking at Him. 420 00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:54,480 And I think music is a great way to help us get into that flow. 421 00:26:54,480 --> 00:27:01,800 I mean, music is calming, music is exciting, music is a powerful thing. 422 00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:04,800 God has given, which is incredible to me, right? 423 00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:12,160 That God has given us this beautiful gift that you can put all of these sounds together 424 00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:19,400 that alone are like just the ding, ding. 425 00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:20,400 Yeah. 426 00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:27,480 But once you put them together in this order, they become this majestic thing. 427 00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:30,600 And isn't that a picture of, again, the church? 428 00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:31,600 Yeah. 429 00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:32,600 That's exactly right. 430 00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:33,600 The body of Christ. 431 00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:34,600 Yeah. 432 00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:39,920 Like, again, I'm musical enough just to get myself in trouble, DJ. 433 00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:44,080 So it might be musically blasphemous in the thing I say. 434 00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:47,800 You better watch your step here, Brad. 435 00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:53,760 You know, but if a high note says to a low note, you're no good. 436 00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:54,760 I don't like you. 437 00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:58,600 I just like the other notes that are up here. 438 00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:06,480 I mean, we lose this range of beauty if we get rid of half the notes. 439 00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:07,480 You are correct. 440 00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:08,480 Yeah. 441 00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:10,680 I'm just trying to speak enough general. 442 00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:11,680 Just general, right? 443 00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:16,880 I know that there are some that are like, oh, B sharp is also the same as this. 444 00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:17,880 So I was like... 445 00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:22,000 B sharp does technically exist, and nobody likes it. 446 00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:23,400 I'm just gonna let you know. 447 00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:24,680 Because we all know it is C. 448 00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:25,680 C, right. 449 00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:26,680 There you go. 450 00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:27,680 I knew it was something like that. 451 00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:34,240 So I was like, if I just throw out some random letters, DJs can be like, well, those are 452 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:35,240 actually the same. 453 00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:36,240 What are you talking about, Brad? 454 00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:38,240 Those are actually the same thing. 455 00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:44,240 It's like if the B sharp said to the C, they're actually the same thing. 456 00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:45,920 They're the same thing. 457 00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:46,920 So yeah. 458 00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:47,920 Yeah. 459 00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:48,920 If there is... 460 00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:54,920 So based on everything that you said, the thing that I would like to chase... 461 00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:59,280 And this is something that I've spent a lot of years thinking about. 462 00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:12,520 So as a Baptist, my life experience with the church has been in the world of autonomy. 463 00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:17,760 With dad being a Methodist pastor now, and I can't remember what the word is, but they 464 00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:22,240 basically got a hierarchy set in place to where... 465 00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:23,240 Well, they're not... 466 00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:24,240 Actually, excuse me. 467 00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:27,820 He's not a Methodist pastor anymore since they disaffiliated. 468 00:29:27,820 --> 00:29:31,040 But prior to the disaffiliation... 469 00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:35,720 I said for a long time, and if any of the people in this church are listening, I hope 470 00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:37,760 I don't offend anybody. 471 00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:43,120 I said for a long time, when your dad started being a Methodist, pastoring in a Methodist 472 00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:48,480 church, I was like, he's not a Methodist pastor. 473 00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:49,840 He's the same guy he was before. 474 00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:50,840 He's a pastor in the same way. 475 00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:51,840 I said, they're just a Baptist church. 476 00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:52,840 They just don't know it yet. 477 00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:53,840 They don't know it yet. 478 00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:58,440 And I say that in jest, because again, at the end of the day, it doesn't matter what 479 00:29:58,440 --> 00:29:59,440 the name over the door is. 480 00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:00,440 That's exactly right. 481 00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:01,440 That is exactly right. 482 00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:02,440 Yeah. 483 00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:08,120 It remembers, it matters what name all men must be saved by that name. 484 00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:09,120 But if there's anything... 485 00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:10,120 Jesus. 486 00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:11,120 It's Jesus. 487 00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:12,120 It's Jesus. 488 00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:13,120 Yeah. 489 00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:14,120 Listeners, if you were unaware, it's Jesus. 490 00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:17,760 Yesus Christos in Greek. 491 00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:24,720 But to me, the weakness I see... 492 00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:28,640 So again, just kind of reading this quote, when the preferences of the church members 493 00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:31,360 are greater than their passion for the gospel, the church is dying. 494 00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:39,800 The weakness that I see of autonomy in the Baptist church is to where we will, in fact, 495 00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:45,200 as you were saying, Brad, we will replace our preferences with gospel. 496 00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:50,800 Because we're part of a church and because I'm a Christian, or at least claiming to be 497 00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:58,780 so, then what I want and how I want things to be done and how I see things as they need 498 00:30:58,780 --> 00:31:09,200 to be, that they are replacing their preference and as you were mentioning, level of comfortability 499 00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:13,400 with the message of Jesus. 500 00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:21,920 And again, the thing I don't like about autonomy is it's almost as if, well, because this is 501 00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:26,880 the system that we're operating under, I'm owed this. 502 00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:29,840 You haven't been at this church as long as I have, Brad. 503 00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:35,800 I know that you're the pastor, but I mean, buddy, you're walking into something where, 504 00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:37,840 again, what's my ROI? 505 00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:39,480 What's my return on investment? 506 00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:43,600 I have been through this church thick and thin. 507 00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:45,000 I want to shake your hand. 508 00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:50,840 Dude, thank you so much, but you don't own this at all. 509 00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:58,200 So what you're saying in a nutshell is that we either trade our preferences for the gospel 510 00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:00,520 or we trade the gospel for our preferences. 511 00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:03,160 Yeah, that's exactly right. 512 00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:09,840 And I suppose the only caveat, Brad, is if you're completely and utterly apathetic and 513 00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:11,360 you just don't care. 514 00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:16,960 Or maybe if your preference is the gospel. 515 00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:17,960 If your preference is what? 516 00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:20,360 If it's the gospel, then you don't have to trade anything. 517 00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:21,360 Yeah, right. 518 00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:24,200 If your preference is the gospel, then you win. 519 00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:25,200 Yeah, right. 520 00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:33,080 I tell you, here's the thing with the quote, and I like the quote, but read the quote again. 521 00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:38,400 Excuse me, when the preferences of the church members are greater than their passion for 522 00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:41,720 the gospel, the church is dying. 523 00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:53,040 So the only thing I would change is when anything becomes the focus other than the gospel, the 524 00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:54,040 church is dying. 525 00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:55,040 Yeah, that's true. 526 00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:59,200 In this case, we're focusing on preferences, so that's what... 527 00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:02,920 Yes, but anything that gets in the way. 528 00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:07,280 And I think what we have to realize is the church and what we have to own is humanity 529 00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:16,240 and our brokenness is that we are going to have to refocus that a lot. 530 00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:25,840 And as long as we're willing to keep doing that, that's good and we're going to grow. 531 00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:31,400 That's when we start to stop doing that. 532 00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:38,280 I'm going to do things today that are not going to be the best. 533 00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:42,320 I'm going to make some mistakes today. 534 00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:47,120 I'm going to make some choices that even myself later on, I probably should have went left 535 00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:51,240 when I went right. 536 00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:56,680 And some of them, maybe in the big scheme, don't matter. 537 00:33:56,680 --> 00:34:03,520 But what matters is not like if I take a wrong turn when I'm driving Carrie back to school. 538 00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:11,000 What matters is that I turn around and get back on the right track. 539 00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:17,080 And if I take three wrong turns on the way to school, but I still keep correcting them, 540 00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:19,360 she's going to get to school. 541 00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:24,040 Now depending on how many, she may be a little late, but she's still going to get there. 542 00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:28,880 But if I decide, you know what, I made my decision. 543 00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:31,800 I turned right when I should have turned left, but I'm just going to keep going. 544 00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:35,780 It's going to take a whole long time for me to circumnavigate the globe and get her back 545 00:34:35,780 --> 00:34:39,920 to the other side of the school. 546 00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:46,960 So the reality is my truck don't do real well on oceans. 547 00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:49,200 So I ain't going to get there. 548 00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:52,760 So we've got to refocus on Christ. 549 00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:56,320 And I think that's part of this picture. 550 00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:59,560 I think sometimes we get the wrong idea that we're supposed to get there and then we're 551 00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:00,560 there. 552 00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:01,560 Yeah, that's heaven. 553 00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:02,560 Right. 554 00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:05,560 We ain't there yet. 555 00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:06,560 Right. 556 00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:12,640 I think I get that. 557 00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:18,680 I think that where that really begins to happen. 558 00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:26,360 I mean, so if, and I'm thinking really conceptually, but I'm also thinking about from my own experience, 559 00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:32,880 working with a live timeline, just the passing of time, when the preferences of the church 560 00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:40,360 members are greater than their passion for the gospel, if, as you were mentioning, if 561 00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:44,840 it's just this level of comfortability or complacency even better, just becoming sort 562 00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:50,840 of this, just this stagnant, I'm not going anywhere spiritually. 563 00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:56,800 I mean, we are still reacting to our own humanity, as you've been mentioning, we're still reacting 564 00:35:56,800 --> 00:36:01,320 to our own humanity day in and day out, whether we're sacrificing ourselves to Christ day 565 00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:03,380 in and day out or not. 566 00:36:03,380 --> 00:36:12,040 And so what happens is, I think that as we become complacent, whether we realize it or 567 00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:16,880 not, it's our complacency that is now taking the place of the gospel and we're acting upon 568 00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:20,840 preferences from our place of complacency. 569 00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:21,840 If that makes any sense. 570 00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:29,480 I know that may sound like a circular reasoning, but again, when that happens, it's like, oh, 571 00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:33,320 so there's something brand new that you want to do. 572 00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:39,800 All of a sudden it's infringing not upon my preferences as I would possibly really see 573 00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:40,800 them. 574 00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:45,240 But then you can upon my preferences of, look, dude, I haven't been doing jack crap and I 575 00:36:45,240 --> 00:36:50,920 kind of don't want to do anything because I'm really happy where I'm at. 576 00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:51,920 Now we've got a problem. 577 00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:59,160 You know, I have a little bit of a theory. 578 00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:07,720 So when a person gets saved or they connect with God and they're in a church and it just, 579 00:37:07,720 --> 00:37:12,520 everything feels like it's connecting right, right, and I like the people, I like the music, 580 00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:21,800 I like the pastor, you know, all of these things, which are good things. 581 00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:31,640 But most of the, to have all of those things be consistently unchanging is really not going 582 00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:32,640 to happen. 583 00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:33,640 It's not. 584 00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:34,840 No, you're exactly right. 585 00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:39,520 And so I think there's a lot of people that get there, where they grew up in church and 586 00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:42,600 they loved it and that was all of the stuff around. 587 00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:50,000 I think so many of us are trying to create that. 588 00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:52,840 We're trying to get that back. 589 00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:58,520 But if we're not careful, and maybe I'm being a little too generous, if we're not careful, 590 00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:07,680 it really becomes idolatry because we're not trying to serve God. 591 00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:13,960 We're trying to serve ourselves, even though we may not even realize that. 592 00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:16,520 No, no, no. 593 00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:19,760 I like this style of preaching and I like this. 594 00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:23,640 One of the things, because sometimes I will have guest preachers, right? 595 00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:29,640 Now I vet the people that I put in the pulpit or I do my best to to make sure that, you 596 00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:34,560 know, like that's important to me. 597 00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:39,280 But I will have sometimes people say, well, I didn't like the way they preach. 598 00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:40,600 I was like, okay. 599 00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:48,120 My question is usually, you know, something along the lines of, were they true to God's 600 00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:49,120 Word? 601 00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:50,120 Right. 602 00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:51,120 Yeah. 603 00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:56,120 I don't care if he got up there and it was super boring to you. 604 00:38:56,120 --> 00:39:02,360 I mean, I'm going to talk to him about that, but if he got up there, or if I get up there 605 00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:10,440 and it's super boring to you, but the gospel and the message is biblically sound, it is 606 00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:11,440 that. 607 00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:17,640 Then I think you got to consider your preferences as what they are, preferences. 608 00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:18,640 Yeah. 609 00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:21,720 There's preachers that I prefer to listen to over others. 610 00:39:21,720 --> 00:39:22,720 Correct. 611 00:39:22,720 --> 00:39:23,720 Yes. 612 00:39:23,720 --> 00:39:24,720 Yeah. 613 00:39:24,720 --> 00:39:31,160 The statement, I didn't like the way he preached is a completely different statement than I 614 00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:34,440 didn't like what he had to say. 615 00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:38,680 I mean, if we're talking about delivery. 616 00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:44,400 But the message generally is I don't want to, like if they're going to preach again, 617 00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:46,080 just let me know. 618 00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:48,080 I will be there. 619 00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:49,080 Yeah. 620 00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:50,080 I mean, yeah. 621 00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:59,160 Kind of my kind of mindset. 622 00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:06,280 We need to come to church because we love God and we love one another. 623 00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:08,320 We need to come to church to serve. 624 00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:10,640 We need to come to church to worship together. 625 00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:11,640 Right. 626 00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:15,480 We're worshiping God, not our preferences. 627 00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:28,720 We're learning, we're being built up to go out and be his church the rest of the week. 628 00:40:28,720 --> 00:40:36,120 I have to guard because I will tell you too, DJ, I will sometimes get so frustrated with 629 00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:37,120 people. 630 00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:38,880 Let me go back to being a youth pastor. 631 00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:39,880 Right? 632 00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:40,880 Yeah. 633 00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:42,960 We were at youth camp one year. 634 00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:48,680 And I'm telling you, I felt like everybody's heart that was in our group was not where 635 00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:50,720 it needed to be. 636 00:40:50,720 --> 00:40:52,640 I was so frustrated. 637 00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:58,000 There was at one point that I had to walk out of the room in our small group and let 638 00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:05,520 Tabby just handle it because I was about to just lose it. 639 00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:14,760 And I'm sitting there in this listening to this other pastor at the camp preach a little 640 00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:16,560 bit later. 641 00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:27,640 And God brought to mind the desert of wandering. 642 00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:28,640 Like the 40 years. 643 00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:36,280 40 years, yeah, in Kadesh Barnea. 644 00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:39,680 Moses does not get to go into the promised land. 645 00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:40,680 Right. 646 00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:43,800 He gets to look at it. 647 00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:47,320 Now if I interpret this right, and please people, go back and read it yourself because 648 00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:48,640 I'm not looking at it. 649 00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:50,520 It's been a little while. 650 00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:57,360 But part of what God is kind of getting across to Moses after he strikes the rock is like 651 00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:05,720 the thing that you are mad at the people for is the thing that you're also guilty of in 652 00:42:05,720 --> 00:42:08,920 a different way. 653 00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:10,680 Because they didn't trust me. 654 00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:12,520 They're not trusting me. 655 00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:17,880 And you weren't trusting me. 656 00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:21,160 So you're guilty. 657 00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:26,200 And God was convicting me here because I'm just so mad at everybody else's heart not 658 00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:32,960 being in the right place that it was causing my heart to not be in the right place. 659 00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:38,200 But I was in my own mind, you know, until God called me out, justified. 660 00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:39,200 Yeah. 661 00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:43,920 So, so like I would, I mean, dude, all right, so we can go there since you're the one who 662 00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:46,240 brought it up. 663 00:42:46,240 --> 00:42:48,200 And it's our show, right? 664 00:42:48,200 --> 00:43:02,040 The preferences of the church become, whether they're vocalized or not, they become bullet 665 00:43:02,040 --> 00:43:10,120 points of proving to ourselves our own self-righteousness, right? 666 00:43:10,120 --> 00:43:11,120 This is right. 667 00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:15,960 This is the way that this is not the way that we do things for the sake of doing things, 668 00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:18,760 even though that actually is the case. 669 00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:23,400 Again like you were saying, it may not have previously been so in another generation or 670 00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:25,920 even a decade or go or less, right? 671 00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:36,480 But the fact that I don't want to give this up, it's not supposed to happen. 672 00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:37,640 This is right. 673 00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:39,640 I am right, right? 674 00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:44,720 And again, to me, that's self-righteousness. 675 00:43:44,720 --> 00:43:50,840 As you were talking, it made me think, and I've done this so much, but I know it happens. 676 00:43:50,840 --> 00:44:01,380 I know it happens day in and day out in the church body where basically, if you will, 677 00:44:01,380 --> 00:44:12,120 to be smug about it, well, you should be living your life like me, but you don't. 678 00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:19,640 And like when you were saying that everyone's heart was wrong, to me, that sounded like 679 00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:27,520 an argument, whether you were willing to admit it, it sounds like an argument for self-righteousness. 680 00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:29,720 Your heart should be like mine because mine's right. 681 00:44:29,720 --> 00:44:35,160 And do you know who that reflects biblically? 682 00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:36,160 The Pharisees. 683 00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:39,260 Yeah, it does. 684 00:44:39,260 --> 00:44:40,260 Live like us. 685 00:44:40,260 --> 00:44:41,260 Trust us. 686 00:44:41,260 --> 00:44:42,640 And what did Jesus say? 687 00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:47,680 Unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees. 688 00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:50,880 Not even the king of heaven. 689 00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:52,920 We have his righteousness. 690 00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:55,740 Now, his righteousness, again, is through him. 691 00:44:55,740 --> 00:44:58,520 We receive it as that free gift. 692 00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:05,040 But when we've received it, well, we should be righteous because he's righteous and because 693 00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:06,880 he made us righteous. 694 00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:09,880 But yeah, we've got to check ourselves. 695 00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:15,920 I think God warns us in the Bible because he knows we're going to go here in different 696 00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:17,760 ways and in different places. 697 00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:28,080 Hey, when you think you've got it all figured out, when you think you've reached that place, 698 00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:32,560 you better check yourself before you wreck yourself. 699 00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:34,360 That's the paraphrase, y'all. 700 00:45:34,360 --> 00:45:41,800 But he says, let a man who thinks he stands be aware lest he falls. 701 00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:44,520 There's a way that seems right to a man, but the end thereof is destruction. 702 00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:50,600 There's a way that seems right to a man, but the end of his death. 703 00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:54,200 Lean not on your own understanding, but in all ways acknowledge him and he will direct 704 00:45:54,200 --> 00:45:56,840 your path. 705 00:45:56,840 --> 00:45:59,440 The wisdom of man is foolishness to God. 706 00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:04,640 The rest of the world is foolishness to man. 707 00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:05,640 Anyway. 708 00:46:05,640 --> 00:46:15,800 Brad, from my experience, I'm going to say right now, our church is experiencing something 709 00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:20,600 that I've only ever heard secondhand information of. 710 00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:22,920 I'm going to be honest, man. 711 00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:24,560 I love being a part of it. 712 00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:27,920 It's incredible what God is doing in our church. 713 00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:30,400 And I'm not just saying that. 714 00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:36,200 There are things that are happening, again, that throughout my lifetime, I have only heard 715 00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:40,320 testimony of. 716 00:46:40,320 --> 00:46:50,040 And I'm going to say something out loud because it's true. 717 00:46:50,040 --> 00:46:57,920 There's a part of me that when I really take a survey of everything that God is doing, 718 00:46:57,920 --> 00:47:02,920 there's a part of me that's worried. 719 00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:14,920 Because when is this whole preference conversation, when is our humanity going to say, all right, 720 00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:17,120 okay, that's enough. 721 00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:19,920 We've had enough. 722 00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:21,920 We just need to slow down. 723 00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:25,360 We need to tap the brakes a little bit. 724 00:47:25,360 --> 00:47:27,680 I'm getting a little uncomfortable. 725 00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:28,680 Right. 726 00:47:28,680 --> 00:47:29,680 Because we like comfort. 727 00:47:29,680 --> 00:47:30,680 We want comfort. 728 00:47:30,680 --> 00:47:31,880 I like comfort. 729 00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:33,240 I know. 730 00:47:33,240 --> 00:47:37,000 And here's the thing, dude. 731 00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:42,160 If that's the conversation, let's have that conversation. 732 00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:45,680 But it doesn't come out as that conversation, at least not in my experience. 733 00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:53,120 In my experience, it comes out as we need to get rid of people or you know what, this 734 00:47:53,120 --> 00:47:56,120 has gone too far. 735 00:47:56,120 --> 00:47:57,740 Maybe I'm beginning to lose control. 736 00:47:57,740 --> 00:48:01,620 I'm beginning to feel too uncomfortable. 737 00:48:01,620 --> 00:48:06,320 Is it the Holy Spirit that's convicting me? 738 00:48:06,320 --> 00:48:11,840 What point in time, not what point in time, what is the straw that will break the camel's 739 00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:23,800 back that will cause any one person to try to stop what God is doing? 740 00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:28,480 And the reason I said that is because I know it's not that I know it's true. 741 00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:29,480 That's what I feel. 742 00:48:29,480 --> 00:48:32,920 It's true that I'm experiencing that. 743 00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:34,240 And I hate that. 744 00:48:34,240 --> 00:48:38,760 I don't like that there's this part of me that's just going, yeah, but I wonder how 745 00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:40,200 long this is going to last. 746 00:48:40,200 --> 00:48:42,880 Like I have to catch myself DJ. 747 00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:44,380 Stop it. 748 00:48:44,380 --> 00:48:45,380 Stop it. 749 00:48:45,380 --> 00:48:46,680 Who cares how long it lasts? 750 00:48:46,680 --> 00:48:47,680 That's the part. 751 00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:49,240 Who cares? 752 00:48:49,240 --> 00:48:54,920 Because it's the gospel that matters. 753 00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:57,600 We like green pastures and still waters. 754 00:48:57,600 --> 00:48:58,600 Yes, we do. 755 00:48:58,600 --> 00:49:03,800 God wants us to like green pastures and still waters because they're a place of restoration. 756 00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:04,800 That's right. 757 00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:07,880 But then he says, get up and come on. 758 00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:08,880 Follow me. 759 00:49:08,880 --> 00:49:12,280 And then we go walk through the valley of the shadow of death. 760 00:49:12,280 --> 00:49:13,560 And Brad, I said this. 761 00:49:13,560 --> 00:49:15,280 Why is it called that, Jesus? 762 00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:16,280 Yeah, right. 763 00:49:16,280 --> 00:49:17,280 Because it's not a good nickname. 764 00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:18,280 That's right. 765 00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:20,040 But here's the thing. 766 00:49:20,040 --> 00:49:23,800 I was telling our Sunday school class this here recently, Brad. 767 00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:31,400 I mentioned that in the last six months on our show, we've talked about Psalm 23 a lot. 768 00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:32,800 Like it's come up a lot. 769 00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:34,080 I like it. 770 00:49:34,080 --> 00:49:35,080 I do too. 771 00:49:35,080 --> 00:49:40,160 But something that you said that I have actually overlooked often, I was telling them this, 772 00:49:40,160 --> 00:49:41,520 and you and I were talking on the show. 773 00:49:41,520 --> 00:49:49,160 I don't remember which show it was, but you mentioned, what does God say in Psalm 23? 774 00:49:49,160 --> 00:49:57,600 I set a table before you in front of your enemies. 775 00:49:57,600 --> 00:49:58,600 And so like- 776 00:49:58,600 --> 00:49:59,600 Their presence. 777 00:49:59,600 --> 00:50:03,600 As what you just said, Jesus has said, come on, let's go to the valley of the shadow of 778 00:50:03,600 --> 00:50:04,600 death. 779 00:50:04,600 --> 00:50:05,600 We're gonna go. 780 00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:10,840 Why is it that I have missed my whole life? 781 00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:14,800 When I say, I suppose it's correct that Jesus is inviting us to go through the valley of 782 00:50:14,800 --> 00:50:15,800 the shadow of death. 783 00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:16,800 Shoot. 784 00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:19,440 I mean, he came for the sick. 785 00:50:19,440 --> 00:50:21,480 He came for the people that don't know him. 786 00:50:21,480 --> 00:50:25,000 He came for the people that are in the valley, right? 787 00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:29,040 And it is in the midst of that where God promises, and guess what? 788 00:50:29,040 --> 00:50:30,040 I'm still going. 789 00:50:30,040 --> 00:50:35,560 Again, I'm gonna be here, but I'm gonna set up this table for you. 790 00:50:35,560 --> 00:50:36,560 Don't worry. 791 00:50:36,560 --> 00:50:37,560 You're good. 792 00:50:37,560 --> 00:50:41,960 Yeah, it's gonna suck. 793 00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:52,200 But again, kind of wrapping back around, I do, I have that feeling, that sneaky feeling. 794 00:50:52,200 --> 00:50:58,480 And I have to tell myself to shut it off because God is like, seriously, right now, I mean, 795 00:50:58,480 --> 00:51:07,240 I say right now, I'm sorry for saying it that way, but like, our church is experiencing 796 00:51:07,240 --> 00:51:09,840 rejuvenation. 797 00:51:09,840 --> 00:51:15,520 Our church is experiencing fresh air. 798 00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:17,480 And green pastures and still waters are awesome. 799 00:51:17,480 --> 00:51:18,480 Yeah. 800 00:51:18,480 --> 00:51:20,120 And they're supposed to be enjoyed. 801 00:51:20,120 --> 00:51:28,120 And again, what I'm trying to convince myself of right here in this moment is, DJ, you know 802 00:51:28,120 --> 00:51:31,920 in your heart, who cares how long that lasts? 803 00:51:31,920 --> 00:51:34,240 It's not up to us. 804 00:51:34,240 --> 00:51:35,840 And again, it's not up to us. 805 00:51:35,840 --> 00:51:42,080 My preference, my preferences would try to get me, right, to try to take control over 806 00:51:42,080 --> 00:51:43,520 it to keep that going. 807 00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:45,000 It's not up to me. 808 00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:48,520 But think about it this way, right? 809 00:51:48,520 --> 00:51:53,920 There is a greater opportunity to worship in the valley of the shadow of death. 810 00:51:53,920 --> 00:51:54,920 Dude, you're not wrong. 811 00:51:54,920 --> 00:51:58,280 There's a greater opportunity than in green pastures and still waters. 812 00:51:58,280 --> 00:52:02,120 When we worship when things are good, it's still worship. 813 00:52:02,120 --> 00:52:03,120 Yes, it is. 814 00:52:03,120 --> 00:52:10,920 But when we worship when everything sucks, I think at some point, I don't want to call 815 00:52:10,920 --> 00:52:15,400 it true worship, but man, I mean, it's just like... 816 00:52:15,400 --> 00:52:16,400 It's desperate worship. 817 00:52:16,400 --> 00:52:17,400 It's a... 818 00:52:17,400 --> 00:52:18,400 I was talking... 819 00:52:18,400 --> 00:52:19,400 It is. 820 00:52:19,400 --> 00:52:20,400 It's desperate worship. 821 00:52:20,400 --> 00:52:21,400 It is desperate worship. 822 00:52:21,400 --> 00:52:22,400 Desperate worship. 823 00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:32,040 I was...Tabby and I were recounting just the other day some stuff and she had... 824 00:52:32,040 --> 00:52:35,120 I was really broken a few years ago. 825 00:52:35,120 --> 00:52:36,640 I mean, I was really broken. 826 00:52:36,640 --> 00:52:37,840 I was discouraged. 827 00:52:37,840 --> 00:52:41,040 I was like, man, I was... 828 00:52:41,040 --> 00:52:46,440 My spirit was so bruised, like it just hurt. 829 00:52:46,440 --> 00:52:53,440 And I was in this worship service at this leadership conference and they were singing 830 00:52:53,440 --> 00:52:56,040 these beautiful worship songs, which I like. 831 00:52:56,040 --> 00:53:00,760 Listen up to God. 832 00:53:00,760 --> 00:53:03,000 But being authentic is really important to me. 833 00:53:03,000 --> 00:53:04,000 And I felt... 834 00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:11,120 I was like, God, I told God in my spirit, I was like, I don't feel like worshiping you. 835 00:53:11,120 --> 00:53:12,120 Yeah. 836 00:53:12,120 --> 00:53:18,440 Now, what you have to understand is part of that was I didn't feel like... 837 00:53:18,440 --> 00:53:23,880 Like if I sit there and I raise my hands and I sing this with joy, that I would be being 838 00:53:23,880 --> 00:53:26,320 fake to God. 839 00:53:26,320 --> 00:53:30,520 So I was like, I don't want to act like it. 840 00:53:30,520 --> 00:53:31,520 I don't feel like it. 841 00:53:31,520 --> 00:53:32,520 I don't feel like worshiping. 842 00:53:32,520 --> 00:53:37,400 And I feel like the Spirit of God said to me, worship me anyway. 843 00:53:37,400 --> 00:53:38,400 Yes. 844 00:53:38,400 --> 00:53:39,880 Worship me anyway. 845 00:53:39,880 --> 00:53:40,880 Yes. 846 00:53:40,880 --> 00:53:45,560 And it was permission for my mind and my heart. 847 00:53:45,560 --> 00:53:46,560 I needed that... 848 00:53:46,560 --> 00:53:50,760 Because it was like, you know what, God, I can do that. 849 00:53:50,760 --> 00:53:56,840 I can sing these words to say how awesome you are, even though I feel like the opposite 850 00:53:56,840 --> 00:53:57,840 right now. 851 00:53:57,840 --> 00:53:58,840 Like I'm not feeling that awesomeness. 852 00:53:58,840 --> 00:53:59,840 That's right. 853 00:53:59,840 --> 00:54:00,840 I'm not feeling that goodness. 854 00:54:00,840 --> 00:54:01,840 And I just... 855 00:54:01,840 --> 00:54:02,840 So I started doing that. 856 00:54:02,840 --> 00:54:03,840 And you know what happened? 857 00:54:03,840 --> 00:54:11,880 Man, I mean, it's a good thing I didn't have a mic because I was weeping and singing and 858 00:54:11,880 --> 00:54:16,280 probably the people in front of me were wishing I'd just stop. 859 00:54:16,280 --> 00:54:22,880 But I remember, you know, our director of mission at the time, Chad, just patted me 860 00:54:22,880 --> 00:54:25,880 on the back and said, you needed that, didn't you? 861 00:54:25,880 --> 00:54:28,400 I mean, I just ugly cried here in this worship. 862 00:54:28,400 --> 00:54:29,400 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 863 00:54:29,400 --> 00:54:30,400 Oh, great. 864 00:54:30,400 --> 00:54:31,400 Oh, there God. 865 00:54:31,400 --> 00:54:34,400 Oh, God, it's so great. 866 00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:35,400 Yeah, man. 867 00:54:35,400 --> 00:54:42,480 And he said, so God will bring me back to that reminder. 868 00:54:42,480 --> 00:54:43,480 When I... 869 00:54:43,480 --> 00:54:44,520 I don't feel like preaching today. 870 00:54:44,520 --> 00:54:49,520 I don't know if people realize that, but I'm the pastor and sometimes I wake up and I 871 00:54:49,520 --> 00:54:51,320 go, I don't feel like preaching today. 872 00:54:51,320 --> 00:54:55,640 In the exact same way that there are mornings where I get up and be like, I have no desire 873 00:54:55,640 --> 00:54:57,160 to go to work. 874 00:54:57,160 --> 00:54:59,880 I want to do whatever I want to do. 875 00:54:59,880 --> 00:55:01,000 Yeah. 876 00:55:01,000 --> 00:55:11,160 And you know, that usually goes with the conversation with God where I'm going, I'm going to go 877 00:55:11,160 --> 00:55:14,480 do what you have put in my heart, so if you'll help me. 878 00:55:14,480 --> 00:55:19,560 And I will say that God shows up. 879 00:55:19,560 --> 00:55:27,280 I didn't tell you how many times I've had a horrible morning and then I've got up and 880 00:55:27,280 --> 00:55:33,000 started to preach and God's like, hey, it wasn't about you anyway. 881 00:55:33,000 --> 00:55:46,680 So really, what's the wonderful fluffy message of the Gospels is that we're sinners, Jesus 882 00:55:46,680 --> 00:55:53,320 came and died for us, lived a perfect life, died for us, and rose again to cheat death 883 00:55:53,320 --> 00:55:55,680 so that we can live eternal life with him. 884 00:55:55,680 --> 00:55:57,080 That's the fluffy version. 885 00:55:57,080 --> 00:55:58,560 That's the smug version. 886 00:55:58,560 --> 00:55:59,560 It's never about you. 887 00:55:59,560 --> 00:56:03,760 If at any point in time you think it was about you, you're wrong. 888 00:56:03,760 --> 00:56:09,420 You know, one of my favorite things that people who are struggling to receive Christ, struggling 889 00:56:09,420 --> 00:56:12,680 to come to Christ and surrender Christ, you know, one of my favorite things that they 890 00:56:12,680 --> 00:56:16,960 say, now it's hard to even get over this even when I tell them the truth, but one of the 891 00:56:16,960 --> 00:56:21,380 favorite things that people say is, I don't deserve it. 892 00:56:21,380 --> 00:56:24,800 I don't deserve to come to Christ and be forgiven. 893 00:56:24,800 --> 00:56:26,800 I'm like, I know! 894 00:56:26,800 --> 00:56:27,800 Me either. 895 00:56:27,800 --> 00:56:32,600 Matter of fact, the Bible says none of us do. 896 00:56:32,600 --> 00:56:33,760 None of us do. 897 00:56:33,760 --> 00:56:35,640 And while we were still sinners. 898 00:56:35,640 --> 00:56:38,400 Look, I got good news for you. 899 00:56:38,400 --> 00:56:39,400 Right, yep. 900 00:56:39,400 --> 00:56:44,100 God doesn't, like the fact that you understand that you don't deserve it is the first step 901 00:56:44,100 --> 00:56:47,440 toward receiving his forgiveness. 902 00:56:47,440 --> 00:56:50,040 That's the first step. 903 00:56:50,040 --> 00:56:51,960 You got half the battle, G.I. 904 00:56:51,960 --> 00:56:52,960 Joe. 905 00:56:52,960 --> 00:56:53,960 Now you just turn. 906 00:56:53,960 --> 00:56:54,960 Just turn to Jesus. 907 00:56:54,960 --> 00:56:59,440 Because if somebody says, you know, I'm ready because I think I have earned it. 908 00:56:59,440 --> 00:57:00,440 I think I have deserved it. 909 00:57:00,440 --> 00:57:02,720 No, dude, you need some more battle practice. 910 00:57:02,720 --> 00:57:03,720 Get back in the cage. 911 00:57:03,720 --> 00:57:04,720 You got to keep swinging. 912 00:57:04,720 --> 00:57:05,720 Gosh, you're really, man. 913 00:57:05,720 --> 00:57:06,720 Oh, man. 914 00:57:06,720 --> 00:57:07,720 Oh, phew. 915 00:57:07,720 --> 00:57:08,720 Oh, okay. 916 00:57:08,720 --> 00:57:10,960 This is a difficult one. 917 00:57:10,960 --> 00:57:11,960 Yeah. 918 00:57:11,960 --> 00:57:12,960 Yeah. 919 00:57:12,960 --> 00:57:13,960 Oh, that's funny. 920 00:57:13,960 --> 00:57:17,000 Brad, why don't we go ahead and close this one down, man? 921 00:57:17,000 --> 00:57:19,960 This was a fun conversation. 922 00:57:19,960 --> 00:57:21,440 It was. 923 00:57:21,440 --> 00:57:24,280 Listeners, thank you so much for hanging out with us. 924 00:57:24,280 --> 00:57:27,800 Thank you so much for being the listeners that you guys are. 925 00:57:27,800 --> 00:57:29,920 We love you. 926 00:57:29,920 --> 00:57:34,640 You all are the reason that we do this. 927 00:57:34,640 --> 00:57:36,360 I mean, I say the reason that we do this. 928 00:57:36,360 --> 00:57:39,640 Just last week, we dropped the episode where we said that we reason that we do this for 929 00:57:39,640 --> 00:57:42,560 me and Brad to hang out, which is true. 930 00:57:42,560 --> 00:57:43,560 But we have. 931 00:57:43,560 --> 00:57:44,560 There are many reasons. 932 00:57:44,560 --> 00:57:46,240 Yeah, there are many reasons. 933 00:57:46,240 --> 00:57:48,320 And you are one of them. 934 00:57:48,320 --> 00:57:49,320 But we love you guys. 935 00:57:49,320 --> 00:57:50,320 We love interaction with you guys. 936 00:57:50,320 --> 00:57:54,800 And please follow us on our Facebook group page if you don't. 937 00:57:54,800 --> 00:57:57,240 MenChurchStuff. 938 00:57:57,240 --> 00:58:00,080 Comment on our group page. 939 00:58:00,080 --> 00:58:04,120 Let us know what you guys have to say about each week's episodes. 940 00:58:04,120 --> 00:58:05,640 Trust me, it's totally fine. 941 00:58:05,640 --> 00:58:12,680 And if you want to keep everything private, you can message either me or Brad. 942 00:58:12,680 --> 00:58:15,200 But we also have an Instagram page. 943 00:58:15,200 --> 00:58:18,200 Follow us on that, at MenChurchStuff. 944 00:58:18,200 --> 00:58:22,520 We even have an email that nobody's used, but we have one just in case. 945 00:58:22,520 --> 00:58:24,460 MenChurchStuff at gmail.com. 946 00:58:24,460 --> 00:58:26,360 But we would love to get to know you. 947 00:58:26,360 --> 00:58:29,480 We want to know what your thoughts and opinions are. 948 00:58:29,480 --> 00:58:34,200 We want to know some of the topics that you might want us to talk about. 949 00:58:34,200 --> 00:58:36,860 Brad and I want to hear from you guys. 950 00:58:36,860 --> 00:58:37,860 We would love for that to be. 951 00:58:37,860 --> 00:58:40,140 Here's your opportunity to share your preferences. 952 00:58:40,140 --> 00:58:41,140 That's exactly right. 953 00:58:41,140 --> 00:58:43,120 Here's your opportunity to share your preferences. 954 00:58:43,120 --> 00:58:46,760 We may not change. 955 00:58:46,760 --> 00:58:52,080 Right, because we have preferences too. 956 00:58:52,080 --> 00:58:55,080 But yeah, thank you so much for hanging out with us. 957 00:58:55,080 --> 00:59:01,960 Remember the code word for Green Frog Coffee Company this week is church. 958 00:59:01,960 --> 00:59:05,560 So beyond that, Brad, I love you, buddy. 959 00:59:05,560 --> 00:59:06,560 Love you too. 960 00:59:06,560 --> 00:59:08,700 Listeners, we love you. 961 00:59:08,700 --> 00:59:11,560 We will catch you next time. 962 00:59:11,560 --> 00:59:13,840 Bye bye now. 963 00:59:13,840 --> 00:59:15,040 That's all, folks. 964 00:59:15,040 --> 00:59:17,120 That is all, folks.