Hello and welcome back to another episode of Upfront and Undivided with Luke and Dean'na.
Hi babe.
How's it going?
It's good, how are you?
I'm well.
Good.
It was an interesting day for me.
Tell me about your day.
I went into the office and I saw people.
It was so weird.
I mean you go into the office once a week anyway but it's usually on a Friday where
little to no people are there.
And it's casual Friday which I would think that a lot more people would want to go into
work on casual Friday.
Which is funny because when you were getting dressed today I was like you look awfully
dressy to be going into it and then I had to remember that it's in the middle of the
week.
Yeah.
No, that's funny.
Yeah I mean I saw people I literally haven't seen for like two and a half years.
Aww.
It was really good to see them.
Some of the changes, some people I mean some people to break you know they use that to
hit the gym.
I mean I saw one dude he looked like twice his size.
That is crazy.
I mean he okay you went to the gym bro.
Good for him.
There's some people not as much.
That probably could have used to go to the gym.
Yes.
So but yeah it was good to see people and it was interesting to see people because it
was.
I mean it's been so long since I've been around so many people in the office.
I'm like what's going on?
Do you realize you said people like a whole lot right there?
I know and it's weird it's like a weird nervous tick.
Yeah.
For those that do not know Luke is not a people, people person.
You love people.
That's the weird thing.
You're a walking contradiction in itself.
You love people you just don't like a lot of people in one swoop.
Yes.
I almost feel like the opposite of one of my favorite movie quotes.
What's that?
Because it was a movie where two guys were hanging out and one was talking about how
he wanted to go to a wake for somebody that they knew in high school and he's like but
you hate people.
He's like yes but I love gatherings.
How ironic.
Yes.
And I am.
I'm the opposite.
It's like I usually stay away from gatherings but once you know some people I like.
Yeah.
I'm good with people just when it becomes a lot of people I'm like yeah I'm out.
You're funny.
I like you though.
I like you.
It's fun.
It's funny.
So what are we talking about today?
So today we're gonna go kind of fun.
I decided to title it servitude without the tood.
And you threw this one at me at the gym.
I did throw this at you at the gym.
Yeah because that's what we do.
I texted I'm jamming out and all of a sudden I'm like wait what?
What are we?
What?
Like is this what you're listening to now?
And you're like no.
And you're doing the motions.
Yeah I'm doing my best because we both had earbuds in and I'm doing my charades while
we're on the treadmills.
Like you and me.
We're gonna talk about this.
Oh okay.
Excellent.
Yeah.
All right.
So tell me what brought on this thought and where do you want to go with it?
So what kind of brought this thought on was you know I mean I was having I was I like
to listen I like to read I like to consume different media around me you know educational
purposes some entertainment and it was just it was one of those things I was I was listening
to something and you know they were talking about how sometimes you know bad habits in
marriage and one of them was keeping score.
You know keeping score can lead to the the downfall of a marriage.
Yes.
And the first first thing I think of is you know the what is it the first Corinthians
13.
Yeah.
Love keeps no record of wrongs.
Exactly.
You know and and it's not always a record of wrongs for the scorekeeping but sometimes
it's a well look at all the good I did.
You know if you have to if you have to it almost feels like if you have to justify.
Yeah.
You know well I took out the trash five times or isn't that good for me.
Hmm.
You know didn't I do good.
Hmm.
Aren't I a good husband.
I took the dog out.
Hmm.
I know right.
It feels weird.
It feels gross.
It does.
Eww.
Because in my mind it's like you you you want to do it because you love somebody.
Hmm.
Otherwise you're doing it for some sort of recognition or you're doing it for some sort
of I don't know just that pat on the back or.
Yeah.
Hey babe look I did this for you.
What are you going to do for me.
Right.
And it's eww.
Eww.
Or sometimes or sometimes it's like I understand what you're maybe trying to say but I know
one of our favorites is I have to babysit my kid today.
See that's not nice.
Yeah.
I don't like that.
Yeah.
I mean that's your child.
You get to hang out with your kiddo today.
Yeah.
Be a parent.
But I but I did it is.
I think that's kind of you know.
I have to go do my wifely duty.
Yeah.
Or my husbandly duty.
Yeah.
You want to say but I mean are there certain things that you do because you are married.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
But yeah.
But to refer to it as a duty.
Yeah.
Or an obligation.
Yeah.
It should be something that I get to I get to take care of you.
I get to serve you.
Yeah.
And I remember that you sent me that clip the little reel of the Huxtables and it was
Bill Cosby.
Yeah.
And it was the future son-in-law.
Yeah.
That was about to come on the scene.
Yeah.
An incredibly chauvinist.
Oh yes.
And he's like oh I didn't think you did stuff like that.
And she's like things like what.
Well like serve him.
And you see you know like Cosby.
Yeah.
Bill Cosby is like quietly laughing inside.
Oh.
And just like falling apart going oh you're about to die.
Yeah.
You know.
I'm going to get out of the way of this one.
Yep.
And it's like it's not that you have to do anything or that it's something you get to.
Yeah.
You get to be the head of the household.
You get to be the one that goes and takes care of you know the needs of our home you
know that financial needs.
I mean you take care of other things too but it's like and then I get to be the one that
kind of pretty much knows where everybody is at all times.
Yes.
The schedules and I mean you're pretty good at that too but you know to me but it's just
that where are we going to go and what are we going to do.
Like I call you from Hy-Vee today and that's our grocery store and I'm like okay so Gabriel
and I are here and we're going to get some groceries.
What are we needing.
What's going on.
And it's you just get to help make life easy for each other.
Oh yeah.
And you get to come in and you get to partnership with somebody you know and it's I know that
you've got a scripture that you are wanting to share where it's talking about Christ in
the church but it's we're supposed to be the mirror image as far as husbands and wife we're
supposed to be that mirror image of it.
So did you want to read that real quick.
Yeah I can do the whole yeah I'll do the whole thing.
I know it's a bit I know it's a bit long and it's from the message but it's Ephesians 5
21 through 23 and I kind of wanted to grab this one kind of kind of tongue in cheek just
for fun just because I know sometimes this verse and this part of verse has been grabbed
and taken out of context but it's like I really want to grab all of it and because I think
we do it.
We try we strive.
We strive for this.
Out of respect for Christ be courteously reverent to one another.
Wives understand and support your husbands in ways that show your support for Christ.
The husband provides leadership to his wife the way Christ does to his church not by domineering
but by cherishing.
So just as the church submits to Christ as he exercises such leadership wives should
likewise submit to their husbands.
Husbands go all out in your love for your wives exactly as Christ did for the church
a love marked by giving not getting.
Christ's love makes the church whole.
His words evoke her beauty.
Everything he does and says is designed to bring the best out of her dressing her in
dazzling white silk radiant with holiness and that is how husbands ought to love their
wives they're really doing themselves a favor since they're already one in marriage.
No one abuses his own body does he know he feeds and pampers it.
That's how Christ treats us the church since we are part of his body and this is why a
man leaves father and mother and cherishes his wife no longer to they become one flesh.
This is a huge mystery and I don't pretend to understand it all.
What is clear is to me is the way Christ treats the church and this provides a good picture
of how each husband is to treat his wife loving himself in loving her and how each wife is
to honor her husband.
I mean right there there's nothing really else to say there really isn't because I know
that it was submission right.
So submission has been the big word.
Yeah that has been abused.
So in in what we do you and I are the big we want to find out what the words are.
Yes.
Oh yeah.
What does that say and I just simply looked up submit and what the definition says is
to yield one's opinion to the opinion or authority of another.
Yeah.
In my mind I'm thinking well that that's simple it doesn't seem hard to me and I also know
that we've talked about in the past where I know we had a pastor that we talked to talk
to you had a conversation with and he said when you submit me me as the wife submit to
you as the husband as long as you are right walking as Christ as walking after the things
of God you are becoming the head of the household you're the one that leads our home and then
I follow suit with you.
You know granted like we'll go to the extreme like you're an abuser you drink you smoke
you do drugs things of that nature.
I technically it would be very difficult for me to submit to that.
Yeah.
That would be considered abuse because again in that scripture it says you don't abuse
you know what you're not going to abuse yourself because the two become one and it's so it's
like what you do is you cherish and you take care of and our favorite thing is always you
know I shouldn't be making fun of you or you making fun of me because ultimately I'm the
one that made the decision to marry you.
Yeah.
And if I made the decision to marry you then hopefully hopefully I trust your opinion.
Yeah.
I trust you and so if our opinions are like scattered somehow if I have an opinion you
have an opinion and if it is a absolute we have to have at least one opinion here to
decide how we're going to go.
Yeah.
I need to as the wife submit my opinions under your ruler and leadership not rulership but
you know what I'm saying.
Yeah.
Under your guidance you being the head because ultimately you're the one that's going to
be nailed on it.
Yeah.
You get to be the one that gets to be accountable for that.
It's true.
Even if I'm the one saying okay father I'm submitting to my husband like your word says
for me to and if he's wrong.
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
Deal with you.
Yeah.
You know and God is so gracious and he's so good that he'll do that and in that brings
peace it brings respect it shows honor even in those moments there's another scripture
that says like say you're the one that's not saved I am just by the mere servant hood that
I do for you the love that I give to you the cherished cherishing that I give to you.
Oh.
I don't even is that a word.
So maybe.
Yeah.
But it's one of those things where it's just by my acts of kindness my acts of love.
Yeah.
My acts of servant hood.
Yeah.
It could win you to Christ.
And so there's it's kind of just a really weird space.
I think sometimes it's a tricky space because a lot of people go well I want my opinion
and I want it now.
Right.
I don't want to have to be accountable.
Yeah.
Per se to somebody or I don't want somebody else telling me what to do.
I'm a grown woman.
You know.
I don't need you to tell me.
Nothing.
Right.
But the fact is is that when you come together.
Yeah.
Because you no longer have a complete say because you have to answer to God.
No.
You do have a conversation with me.
You know we become accountable for each other.
We become accountable to ourselves.
Yeah.
And if if you truly want a marriage that is thriving and succeeding and moving in the
blessings of God.
Yeah.
Then start leaning into these kind of scriptures leaning into you know we talked about last
week I'm going to cut myself away from my family.
Not cut them off but we're just saying that they no longer get to be the rule.
Right.
Of the opinion.
Yeah.
In my life.
It's me and my spouse now.
Yeah.
And now we're coming into this place of okay so what does that even look like.
Well that means hey let's sit down.
Let's talk about this.
Number one let's pray about it.
Let's ask the Holy Spirit to guide us.
Give us discernment.
Give us wisdom.
Yeah.
And then love each other in that place.
Yeah.
Knowing that we're a representation of each other.
We're a representation of Christ.
We're a representation of the church.
We're a representation of the kingdom of God.
That's heavy.
That's a lot of responsibility but it's worth it.
It's worth it because you can say you know it's no longer my opinion.
Yeah.
I don't want my opinion anymore.
Our favorite thing too has always been wash it with the word of God.
What does it say?
Filter it through the word of God.
What does the word of God say?
Because ultimately that's the opinion that we want because our opinion is not going to
constantly be God.
It's not.
It's just not.
Yeah.
If you guys ever listen to our conversations outside of the microphone most days we're
like we're having to filter ourselves through.
Oh yeah.
But then we'll stop ourselves and say whoa whoa whoa.
The selfishness ourself is really coming into play here.
Father what do you want?
Crucify my flesh.
And what do you want?
Because ultimately you've got the bigger picture in mind.
And then you say that when that happens then I get to live in the greatest of moments.
Yeah.
Like what's the other scripture that you had?
You had another scripture.
Yeah.
So the other one Matthew 23, 11 through 12 also from the message.
Do you want to stand out?
Then step down.
Be a servant.
If you puff yourself up you'll get the wind knocked out of you.
But if you're content to simply be yourself your life will count for plenty.
You know and again you know that was when you know Jesus is talking to the his disciples
and saying you know the you know the the greatest amongst you will be a servant.
You know that's basically the just a different wording of it.
You know and I was I was also thinking when you're talking about opinion you know if there's
a difference in opinion and you know if there's clashing heads and stuff.
I thought back to you know well that's one you know the communication the foundation
of communication and and going back to the you know I know it the Bible talks about you
know don't be on don't yoke yourself unequally or you know something about yoking and being
equal and the same beliefs and stuff like that.
And it's like as long as you have that foundation and as long as you know I mean as long as
you're both believers as long as you're both following this as long as you have that foundation
of communication.
I mean any differences of opinion is just going to be like I hate to break it down but
I mean for the most part it's going to be like fluff stuff.
You know I think the biggest disagreement and opinion that we've had is like maybe like
what color to paint the walls or you know or how many pillows right.
How many pillows you know should we have zero pillows or 10 pillows you know.
Why is there an Afghan on every piece of furniture.
That's a really good question.
Why do we need so many blankets in this house.
I don't I don't.
If any guys can give me this.
I don't understand this one.
Listen no no listen.
Anybody that's been in our home.
They know they they they know they might know but I don't know.
That's the problem because we have cold natured friends.
We've got warm natured friends our cold nature friends.
We need to take care of them.
OK.
And it looks pretty.
OK.
See it's OK to agree to disagree.
Or should this be one of those times where I'm like no I'm the head of the household.
No Afghans.
I think I might be onto something.
But see it's those trivial little bitty things because in light of eternity baby.
It doesn't matter.
It don't matter.
And I know this.
I am very aware of this.
Yeah.
No I am I am very aware of this.
Yes.
There's never a pillows pillows shortage anywhere guys come to our house.
That's right.
We'll hook you up.
Yes.
I did.
I did get you tickled.
OK.
Keep going.
But no I think I think that's what it was.
It was just you know I mean because again and I know that that's I know that that's important.
You know like I said with the foundation of you know the communication and being equally
yoked you know when it comes to differences of opinion I mean yes there might be there
might be some differences in our thought patterns.
But again with the foundation with this this mentality of I want to serve my spouse I want
to serve my family some of that stuff you're going to realize is not that important to
you.
You know even if you think that this is super important to me you know like when I came
into this marriage it was like you know it's super important that these Christmas traditions
survive and when it came down to it I'm like you know it really doesn't matter.
You know as long as you're building your own family you know and I know we talked about
it what last week you know about the whole you know cleaving to your spouse you know
you're going to leave your father and mother.
And I mean this this is the ultimate I know I know some people when they you know when
they were young and they're changing schools or moving to a new town it's like hey this
is my chance to reinvent myself.
I mean in a way once you get married this is a way to you know not necessarily reinvent
yourself but you know if you saw something like hey I think that's a really cool tradition
let's start it.
Yeah.
You know like I had never I had never heard of buying a buying a yearly Christmas ornament.
Yeah until you met me.
Yeah I mean yeah yes yes my household had Christmas ornaments don't get me wrong we
had Christmas ornaments we celebrated Christmas but it was never it was never a big deal about
going and buying like an annual Christmas.
Yeah.
True you know an annual ornament.
Yeah.
I don't know why those words are getting mixed up.
You know so again this is one of those things that you know because really I mean it as
much as it didn't click in my brain so to speak and even sometimes it's still like I
may not fully understand it but I roll with it.
Yeah.
You know because again that's just that's what happens you know because being a servant
is part of being a servant is you're laying down you're laying down your own opinion you
know and I know that's that's kind of what you said with with the submitting you know
you're laying down your opinion you're laying down what you think matters most in that moment.
Yeah.
To say you know what it's it's more important that we get through this together.
Right.
Rather than I get my way.
Right.
You know and I think.
Say that again.
Yeah.
It's more important that we get through this together.
Yeah.
Than I get my way.
Yeah.
All of a sudden I'm thinking about you know next weekend we're going to plan we're going
to do this like muddy obstacle course and it's yeah but all of a sudden I'm like freaked
out.
Yeah.
But all of a sudden I'm like hey that could be like that could tie into this sermon because
again we're helping each other over these obstacles and through these obstacles and
we can't do it by ourselves.
We can't.
You know if I tried to go all through it by myself and leave you at the end at the at
the first obstacle it's like how.
Wow that just sounds bad.
I can't even finish that thought.
I'm like yeah that feels gross.
You jerk.
Yeah I know right.
But it's also more even in the challenging it's more fun.
I don't even know if fun.
Yes it's fun.
But I mean with in in our obstacle course it's going to be fun.
It's going to be challenging.
Yeah.
There's probably going to be some cuss words.
Sorry guys it's just going to happen.
Yeah.
We are people.
And we are people and we are very colorful people.
Yeah.
And so but that being said it's one of those where you don't know even quite what you're
made of until all of a sudden you put yourself into that kind of position.
The trials and the tribulations and just the walks of life the everyday stuff that we go
through.
I come home I tell you almost every day what's going on with me as far as school and just
yeah hey babe here is a new muscle that I just learned today.
Yeah.
You know or whatever.
It's the challenging pushing up against the resistance is what makes you stronger.
And if you are this constant just I got to have my way I have to have my way and you're
muscling yourself through or you know forget about you I don't need you.
You're going to walk around very very weak and very broken.
And it's not and bitter and it's not going to be fun.
Life will not be fun.
Being selfish is not fun.
No it just isn't.
It's just not.
And so it's like when you literally just put it down bare bare minimum just let's just
get to the foundation of it.
The simplicity of walking with somebody else through life.
No.
You know finding out what they like finding out what they don't like.
My husband doesn't like throw pillows and he doesn't like throw blankets but he loves
me.
Yes.
And he loves that I love to make our house pretty.
Yes.
And comfortable and comfortable for people.
You know and it's so it's it's seeing even taking that moment because you were so sweet
literally you guys just heard it seeing that taking that one moment and seeing it through
the other person's eyes.
No.
OK.
My wife's not obsessed with pillows.
She's just obsessed with making sure that people are comfortable.
Yeah.
You know or taking care of people and when it's like in with you it's like my husband's
not overprotective he just wants to make sure that everybody is safe.
Yeah.
You know.
And I just had another thought.
Yeah.
As far as the whole you know submitting and you know going along with somebody else's you
know knowing that you are different people.
Yeah.
Because we can have the same ideals the same goals the same you know and still be different
people because we are different people.
As some of you may know and heard I'm not always the huge fan of going out in big crowds
and doing all sorts of stuff.
My lovely wife is.
She loves going out and so are our children.
Yes.
But something I will say as a warning slash plea to those of you that you know when you
do agree and say you know I know that my spouse really wants to do this I know my I know my
wife really wants to go here I know my husband really wants me to partake in this with him.
Please do it with an open heart.
Yeah.
You know because if you want.
All right.
I'm going to go along and I'm not going to have fun and I'm just going to be this.
You know I mean that that just that ruins the whole day for everybody.
You know so so go into something with an open mind even if you know that you know hey this
screaming crowd is not going to be fun at least go in with maybe this screaming crowd
is going to be different this time.
Yeah.
You know even when you see the absolute pure joy.
Yeah.
On on that on the person that you love's face.
Yeah.
Because they are so enjoying that.
Oh yeah.
So it's like when it gets overwhelming because I know for for me you know with our children
when I am like I'm so over this I don't want to do this anymore.
I look at those sweet faces.
Yeah.
I go wow.
You know what I'm going to memorize this moment because they are literally in pure joy.
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
And that's that's when you get to lay your opinion down that's when you get to lay down
what you want down and then and then create a moment for somebody else and then in that
moment you get to have that joy too.
Yeah.
That becomes something that you get to have the rest of your days.
Yeah.
And I so I think I think that's it.
I mean I unless you do you think we need to add anything.
I think we'd set it.
I think so.
You know again it's it's this whole idea of serving.
Yeah.
You know because it is it's.
I I almost want to say when you when you boil it down that's what marriage is.
You know yes we get to do all the fun stuff as a married couple.
Yeah.
But but it's also just we get to serve each other.
Yeah.
You know we we and not just serve each other but we get to serve together.
Yeah.
You know because I know I know at one point in time we were on the same ministry team
together and it was it was a lot of fun to always be serving together.
Yeah.
And I was like oh there's Luke and Dina they're always serving together.
You know but but it was so and I think that is that's that's the that's the really cool
thing about being in a marriage you know and being in a strong relationship is you know
you do you get not only do you get to serve each other and you get to serve in your own
capacity but you get to serve together.
Yeah.
You know I all of a sudden I've got the image of a diner and and Charlie and Karen you know
that I could never I could never imagine.
Yeah.
Them separate.
No.
You know I I think maybe one time I went somewhere I think sometime one time I went somewhere
with just Charlie.
Yeah.
And it was kind of weird.
Yeah.
To look back on it.
I mean I know we were having like a manly discussion and I think he was giving me some
premarital counseling.
Yes.
Before the premarital counseling.
Yes.
But you know but again it's you know they they work so well together.
Beautiful.
And and I think that's ultimately I think I don't know if I've ever fully communicated
this with you.
I think I kind of have.
Yeah.
I mean ultimately that's kind of my goal for us.
I know.
Is to always be serving together.
You know even if we're not on the same like quote unquote ministry team.
Yeah.
But it's like I want us to always be serving together.
You know people know when they see us and and even if they only see one of us they know
the other ones are not far behind.
Yeah.
Or you know if we are on other sides of the church it's like we can we can do that almost
like you know the mere cat pop your head up and like I made eye contact.
OK we're cool.
Yeah.
You know but it is it's like it's it is it's that it's that comfort it's that security
it's that.
I don't know it's it's pride.
Oh I almost want to say pride.
You know it's just it's a really really good welling up of emotion that we know we when
we serve together.
Yeah.
You know so yeah.
So yeah.
It's literally what it's literally what the kingdom is about.
Yeah.
It's taking care of others and then watching God pour through you.
And that's what's beautiful about it.
It is.
I like that babe.
Yeah.
I like it.
Thank you.
All right.
Go be the best you guys that you can be.
Go serve each serve each other serve other people around you.
Get outside of yourself.
Get outside of your belly button.
Love people fiercely without regret without apology.
Love people and just have the best week.
Yeah.
Thank you for having me.