Hello and welcome to another episode of Upfront and Undivided with Luke and Dean'na.
Hi.
Hey babe.
How's it going?
It is good.
How are you?
I'm pretty good.
We've got people in here with us today.
We do have people in our studio today.
I am stoked.
I am as well.
These are two of our favorite people.
Yes.
They are their pastors, their teachers, they're married, their parents, their grandparents,
their dog parents.
They do a lot of awesome stuff.
So Eric and Loree, welcome.
Hello.
Thanks for having us.
You're welcome.
Thanks for coming in.
This is great.
We try to, we do our best to bribe all of our guests with food.
So that way they're friendly during the interview.
And you did a great job.
Thank you.
Yes, thank you.
You don't need to be hangry before you talk.
That's right.
Yeah.
Oh, there's nothing worse than that, huh?
I would seriously, you hear all that rawr, rawr, rawr, rawr.
Yeah.
It's not good.
Yeah.
It's not good.
And with the Holy Spirit to come and all of a sudden you're just thinking about tacos.
Yeah.
We did not have tacos.
We didn't have tacos.
We had lasagna.
Tacos is what came out.
I like tacos though.
I think we fed them tacos.
The cupcakes were good too.
Yay.
Shout out to Hy-Vee.
Yes.
Cupcakes.
What?
What are we going to talk to them about today, babe?
So for the most part, like we said to them, we're going to talk about marriage and communication
because I know that you guys have had a long, strong marriage.
How long again have you guys been married?
30 years now in February.
Oh, congratulations.
Thank you.
Because you guys went to someplace sunny to celebrate that.
Where did we go?
St. Thomas Virgin Islands.
It was amazing.
It was.
It was really good.
Telling us about the blue ocean and the iguanas chasing you.
And the iguanas chasing you.
It was peaceful and nice and we were refreshed and just got to enjoy each other and the beauty
of God's creation on the islands.
Yeah, it was great.
Bucket list.
It was great.
I think I don't want to jump too far ahead or too fast.
No, you're good.
I would, since we're talking about marriage and communication, I think our opinion would
be marriages need to take a separation of kids the best they can and the quickness of
life, the fast pace of life and go someplace together.
Get away from everything.
Do your best to put your phones away within reason.
But getting away like this is so good for marriage.
It's so vital.
Because it does two things.
It strengthens your strengths, but it reveals your weaknesses.
Right.
That's good.
And you'll know you have a strong marriage.
Most people pretty much do.
But you know, for some people, not everybody, but some, if you take out the busyness of
life, the busyness of job and the busyness of children, you take all that away and it's
just you two staring at each other.
You have nothing to say.
And that's a problem.
And it reveals a weakness in the marriage.
Because you hear about like the empty nest syndrome a lot of days where it's like all
of a sudden you've raised your family, you've done all the things, you've just blah, blah,
blah.
And then all of a sudden it's like you're married to a stranger.
Yeah.
It is, but we have taken time like this throughout our whole marriage.
We've taken time to date each other.
We've taken time even when our kids were very little, just to have a date night.
You know, about every other week just going out by ourselves.
And when we could afford it when we were a young married couple, just going somewhere,
even if it was for a couple of nights, just together, to be together and to just get quiet
and just enjoy each other.
Because we do.
He's my best friend and he has been for over 30 years now.
And so he's the only one I really want to be with all the time.
I never get tired of being with him.
It's always fun when we're together and no matter what we're doing.
So I think that's so important in a marriage to have that friendship there.
I know I can count on him above everyone else that he is for me.
And I just appreciate that.
I'm the same way.
And it's so refreshing just to be able to look across the table at each other and say,
how are you?
Yeah.
How are you doing?
Yeah.
I don't know how many I mean, I guess we could take that for granted that marriages do that.
Yeah.
But you know what?
We may be surprised how many don't.
I agree with that statement.
I want to take a second and just like literally just look at you guys because that was sweet.
Like this is we talk about having video in here periodically, but to see genuinely how
much you guys adore each other.
And it's just, it's absolutely beautiful.
So you speaking such goodness into him and over him.
I mean, that would probably be one of those huge nuggets that you would have to have in
your marriage too.
It's like, you're my best friend.
And I mean, just you're speaking this goodness into him and I'm watching he's mushy over
you.
You know, it's really neat, Dina is that we can already see fruit of that in our children's
marriages and that is wonderful because they are, they enjoy being together too.
We get to babysit and be Mimi and pop a lot of times just so they can go on a little date
night or whatever.
And that just blesses me a lot too, that, that we have provided that example for our
kids to follow and that our girls, our three daughters didn't want to settle for less than
somebody who is going to be their best friend.
Yes.
So that's our prayer for our kids for sure.
Yeah.
I just genuinely, because I know with Gabri, she's from my first marriage and so, and Luke
very much stepped in and became dad in that moment with her, but she's looked us right
in the eye and said, I'm a one and done.
I'm not doing like, like she,
she hasn't even really had like a boyfriend boyfriend.
She's had boys that she's liked or, you know, been a little smitten with.
Went to prom with somebody.
But guess what?
Mom came and picked her up early kind of thing.
Cause she just, not for any reason, except she just wasn't really having that much of
a good time and just, you know, mom, I think, well that, there was some slimy creepy, creepy
guys out there.
Yeah.
Those guys.
I'm on my way.
It was like, yeah.
It was gross.
It was like a, yeah.
It was like a hotel reception conference area.
Okay.
And so yeah, there were, yeah.
Yeah.
Guys outside drinking, smoking and, Ooh, who's your, you know, I'll be your friend.
You won't.
This is why she called Dina and not me.
Yeah.
Are you on the phone right now?
You're on the phone.
Yep.
Keep walking.
Okay.
One fortunate thing about us is, um, and, and they'll, there'll be a purpose why I'm
saying this part is we, everything that I, I really enjoy doing, she enjoys doing and
vice versa.
Yeah.
So like we love going to amusement parks.
We love roller coasters.
Yay.
We love playing golf together.
We play golf together.
Oh, that's awesome.
Yeah.
We love golf.
I'm not very good, but I have a lot of fun being out there.
You can smack that thing.
Um, we love going to the world's games.
We love when we can afford to go to a chief's game.
We love to go to chief's game.
Yeah.
We love go out to eat.
We love to do all the movies.
We love to go to the movies together.
We love all these things together.
And you might have some listeners that are starting to maybe not cringe, but they're
going, yeah, but I don't have any of the same interests that my wife has or vice versa.
And so I think I would just speak into that a little bit that you can find some common
ground that you both like and enjoy.
You can actually learn how to enjoy what your wife enjoys.
You can actually learn to enjoy what your husband enjoys.
Yeah.
And as vital in things of marriage, especially if you do have kids, they'll ride the coattails
of the kids' activities.
They'll ride that coattail as far as they can.
And then again, like we talked about earlier, the kids are going to leave and you're standing
there looking at each other going, well, what do we do now?
Right.
I have nothing to say to you.
Right.
We have nothing in common.
Yeah.
Because we, we didn't build anything.
We built the kids.
Right.
We didn't build each other.
Yeah.
So you got to find a way, husbands, you got to find a way to get into your wife's world
somehow.
Yeah.
And wives, you got to find a way to get into your husband's world.
Something doesn't have to be the same thing all the time.
Right.
I'd never been on a golf course till we met.
Ever.
And now I love it.
Yeah.
So you can.
She didn't start playing golf till what, three years ago?
Right.
Oh, that's awesome.
And I don't even remember how that happened, but it gets me on vacation at my parents or
something.
And I said, well, why don't you just, why don't you just, I've got you some clubs.
Let's just throw them in the thing and let's, I think you should just go out with me and,
you know, we've gone out to Topgolf and the putt-putt stuff.
Yeah.
I said, but let's, let's put you on the big girl course.
And, and it just, let's just have you go out with me and hit the thing around, do the best
you can and see if you enjoy it.
And by golly.
I do.
If it didn't just click.
And I was like, this is, this is awesome.
See, but what I, what I heard from that was almost you saying, come with me, come with
me.
I want to be with you.
Come be with me.
I invited her into that world.
Yes.
And too many times where, Oh, he won't like that.
Like we have, we will be doing a pedicure one day, he and I, but with the fish.
This is something he wants to do with me.
But it's like, what are some things even, I don't know.
I've never done this.
I've never, you've never done this.
Maybe let's try to figure something out.
But I think that the key there that you hit was, I just want to be with you.
You want to come hang out with me and do this.
Like he'll call me into the garage.
He'll be working on a project or something or just do.
Or if I'm working on the car.
Yeah.
Or the mundane even, do you want to come help fold laundry?
You know, just bring you into.
Into my world for a second.
Yeah.
Cause that's, cause that's something kind of like what we encourage other couples is
be in each other's space.
You know, even if you're not both participating, you're both there, you know, because again,
it's, you know, if I am like out in the garage or something, you know, it's a one person
job there's, it's not like you can both get in, you know, especially now that she has
a tiny car, you can't both fit into there.
You know, so it's, but it is, it's something about having your spouse.
Right.
You know, regardless of what's going on.
Yeah.
And I, I feel, I don't want to, I don't know if feeling sorry for is the right term here,
but I know there's some wives that they say, well, if my husband's around me that much,
he'll drive me crazy.
Oh, he'll drive me nuts.
And I'm like, what a sad thing to say.
Yeah.
Or vice versa.
They're missing out.
You know, my wife comes in here and helps me work on this car.
That's going to drive me nuts.
Yeah.
You know, cause I won't get to hang out with my buddies and that's this, that's irrelevant.
Yeah.
You can still have girlfriends and your guy friends that this, that has nothing to do
with any of this.
Right.
That's a whole separate conversation.
But when that is all you have, you're missing the God, you're missing the God thing here.
Yeah.
You know, the man and the woman become one flesh.
Yeah.
And you, one flesh is one thing.
And so bringing your wife into that world of, she doesn't know what to do maybe.
Yeah.
But that, that's, that's, that has nothing to do with it.
Yeah.
It's not that she doesn't know what to do.
So she's going to be in my way.
No, that's actually your, you will regret and you younger people that are married listening
to this, if you're younger, listen to me and listen, listen, listen.
If you don't pull your wife or vice versa, your, your husband into this world and do
things together, when you get older, you will regret it.
Yeah.
You will look back and you'll go, my gosh, what did I do?
Yeah.
I'm, I'm at whatever age and I look back and I didn't do anything with her.
Yeah.
Hardly at all.
I didn't do anything with him, hardly at all.
Yeah.
You know, we did a few things together, but we just, we just didn't do that much together.
Yeah.
And you'll look and you'll be tired all the time by that time because you get older, you
get tired.
Right.
And so it's just so important.
I think it's so, I think it's so godly to do that because God, God pulls us into everything
he's doing.
Jesus pulls us into everything he's doing.
Yeah.
And so he expects us the same thing.
Yeah.
I love that.
You know?
He expects the same from us.
Yeah.
And just as you were talking about that, I mean, all of a sudden I am, I'm thinking about,
you know, a lot of the covenant and the commitments between a couple, you know, this is why you
cling to your wife or you're cling to your spouse and, you know, better or worse, sickness
to health, you know, it's like, you're going to be there through the thick and thin.
You're going to be there together.
So it's like, even, even if it is mundane, even if it is, you know, just awkward, you
know, if, if I didn't know my way around, you know, some project, at least I'm there
with my wife, you know?
And so, yeah.
I've even got Eric to go to Hobby Lobby with me sometimes.
I love that.
Oh boy.
I was going to say, Luke and I actually enjoy that place.
We did.
I did.
Yeah.
Just within the last two years.
Yeah.
I mean, my gosh, I, I didn't want to go to Hobby Lobby.
Any particular reason?
I just didn't.
But I realized this is something that she liked.
Yeah.
You know, she likes to go there and pick out the Christmas stuff.
Yeah.
Okay.
Let's go pick out some Christmas stuff then.
Yeah.
And Luke, as sure as I'm sitting here looking at you, I actually enjoyed myself.
Good.
He even pointed some things out to me.
I did.
We have a lot of cool stuff.
I pulled up my big boy pants and I, I picked out some stuff.
I said, you know, I think this would look really nice on the mantle.
Oh, I forgot what it was.
I love that.
It was fun.
And I didn't, you know, I didn't feel funny about it.
I thought, you know what, that's a good thing to do.
You guys were making something beautiful together.
Yeah.
You were creating something together.
We did.
And then we put all the stuff up and at home and I was like, wow, that really looks pretty
good.
Yeah.
You know, we're not decorators here.
My gosh, we are not decorators.
Yeah.
But it looked pretty good.
Yes.
So we really enjoyed that and just pulling each other into what you're doing.
You just, you won't regret it.
Do you think too many times, um, both of you, do you think too many times that we forget
about the dating or the courting and it's like, once we got married, once we got the
person it's like, you almost see, okay, I don't need to try anymore.
Yeah.
I think that happens.
And that's why, like I said, we purpose that we, we wanted to still date each other right
from the beginning.
And we made sure that we always had time for that.
And it was important.
And I think it's just built our marriage and made it stronger.
It has.
And nine, you know, I, maybe 80% of, of everything is of life is mundane.
I agree with that.
You know, it's, it's mundane.
It's just stuff.
Yeah.
It's not that, okay, well, what do we do with that?
How do we make this, how do we make this as productive as possible?
Yeah.
You know, in our lives, you go on a date.
I love that.
You go get something to eat.
It doesn't take that long, but the fruit of it, the reward of it, the things you talk
about, um, is it can be life saving.
Yeah.
You know, it can be marriage saving.
And you were talking about the vows just a second ago and I've done a lot of weddings
and I go over those, I go over those vows with these married, married, young marrieds
that are getting ready to get married.
And I go over the richer for poor, but the one I hit the most is for better or worse.
Yeah.
Because there's some betters.
Yes.
That's easy.
Yeah.
What do you do when it's the worst?
Right.
Yeah.
What do you do?
Right.
And if you don't have this communication, which I know this is a, a big bedrock of,
of your roles marriage and out of this podcast is communication.
Yeah.
If you don't have that in the worst, you're in trouble.
Yes.
You are in trouble.
Yes.
If you don't have the ability men to express yourself and express your feelings, you are
old fashioned and you are out of touch.
Men today have, have got to have that thing inside of them that says, I don't care what
a supposed Marlboro man looks like.
Right.
I'm going to express how I feel.
That's good.
I'm going to tell you how I feel.
I mean, who, I mean, right.
Who else are you going to tell?
Right.
I mean, of course you tell God, you tell the Holy Spirit inside of you.
But other than that, besides your, you got to tell your spouse how you feel.
Yeah.
If something bothers you, you got to tell them, you know, you start off, this might
hurt your feelings and I'm sorry, but you know, this, this, this hurt me.
Yes.
Or this is how I'm feeling.
Those dates are the perfect opportunity to do that.
That's good.
Because you have a common goal of talking things through.
We talk.
Right.
We talk everything through.
And that keeps things from escalating too.
I mean, we, I would say 99.999% of the time we never argue.
We never fight because we communicate and talk things out.
Does that mean he's happy with me 100% of the time or I'm with him?
No.
But we talk things out, being silent and making him try to guess how I'm feeling, that is
not worth it.
No, don't do that.
That's punishment.
So we talk everything out and you know, we never go to bed angry with each other or upset
with each other.
We always resolve everything.
There's always a good night, I love you and a kiss.
I mean, we'd never go to bed angry with each other.
And you know, you got to, we got to talk everything out, don't we?
Yes, we do.
We talk everything out almost to a fault.
Almost over explained.
Yeah.
Almost to where the other one says, okay, I think I got it.
Yeah.
I got it.
Yeah.
You know, but you want to, you want to get everything out so that it's not bottled up.
You don't want to give the enemy a foothold.
Right.
Not one.
Yeah.
Because then what happens is it's not necessarily done on purpose, but punishment will come
from one of the spouses and punishment comes in the form of withholding love and intimacy.
Cute.
Yeah.
Punishment.
I, they don't do it.
They don't say it.
Right.
They acted out.
Yes.
Yeah.
Since you made me angry.
You can say it.
Yeah.
Pissed them off.
Yes.
I'll say it for you.
Maybe since you made me angry.
Yeah.
Cause that's a stronger, that's a stronger word.
And sometimes you got to say it.
Cause that's what happens.
Yep.
You made me so angry.
Yeah.
I am going to now withhold.
Man.
Love from you.
Yeah.
I'm going to withhold my body from you.
I'm going to withhold kisses from you.
I'm going to withhold talking to you.
Yeah.
I'm going to punish you.
Yeah.
Because of how you treated me.
Man.
And we, you okay?
Well, no, that's almost making me cry right now because I would never want to make you
feel that way.
She never has.
It's hard to believe that people would want to treat their gift from God like that.
Yeah.
You know?
Yeah.
And so yeah, I'm tearing up because.
Cause you know what happens.
I know what happens.
And it makes me so sad that it happens.
It does.
The clothes.
Your spouse is your gift from God.
They are.
And I would never want to treat you that way.
And I know this is, since this is a marriage podcast, we can say this.
Yeah.
The clothes stay on.
Yep.
Yes.
And when there's punishment being inflicted on one spouse or the other.
Yeah.
And I don't want to say which sex it is.
No.
Yeah.
Cause it goes both ways.
It does.
It probably goes both ways depending on the person.
If you're listening to this right now and that is you, I would say that the best thing
that you can do is go grab a hold of your spouse and grab their hands.
Yes.
And you guys really need to have a serious conversation.
Yeah.
Yes.
And withholding love and withholding intimacy is, is extremely ungodly.
Yeah.
And unscriptural.
Yeah.
And I don't mean ungodly like devilish.
Yeah.
I mean, that's just not God.
Right.
God never punishes his children by withholding his love.
Correct.
That's right.
He doesn't.
I remember you guys talking to our marriage group that one night and you said that.
And I mean, and I heard it ring in my head and it says, God doesn't withhold not one
good thing.
That's right.
And if we're supposed to be walking in the image of God and the character of God and
being the people of God, why are we doing that to each other?
Why would we do that to each other?
And especially if the husbands are meant to be like Christ submitting to his wife as Jesus
submits to the church.
And likewise, the wife submits as the church to Jesus.
Yeah.
You know, again, why are you treating each other that way?
Yeah, exactly.
It's sad.
It's very sad.
And I would not be surprised if there's a lot of struggling marriages out there.
There is.
That are listening.
So what would you, we all have the same thing going.
What would you say as far as maybe some things that you could do to, okay, Pastor Eric,
like our marriage is dying, this is happening to us right now.
What would be some things that you guys would maybe even a practical, I mean, we know praying,
we know repenting, we know asking forgiveness.
We've talking, tracking down your pastor and talking to your pastor.
Yeah.
But I also know some people don't like to uncover their marriage and talk to a pastor.
So what would you guys, what would be some advice or maybe some tips?
Yeah, I would say one thing would be start speaking the goodness of God over your spouse
and to your spouse.
And think of them often and pray the goodness of God for your spouse.
Pray for favor.
Pray for a closer relationship with Jesus for your spouse.
Just praying for them and just speaking those things over them will help soften your heart.
Yes.
It helps soften your heart.
By speaking things out loud over your spouse strengthens you before you ever even talk
to them.
Right.
I agree.
Because this is before you talk to them.
Yeah.
When I'm doing, when I'm talking to people in my office, the one thing that I always
ask them to do is I say, okay, what's an attainable goal for you?
Yeah.
I want something simple and easy that you could do right now or within the next day
or two.
And what we start to find is that as we peel this onion back of whatever these problems
are, we start to realize, wait a minute, this didn't happen yesterday.
No.
Right.
This has been years or however long they've been married.
Yeah.
Usually about the seven year mark, you know, things start creeping in, five years.
So, since it didn't happen overnight, it's not going to obviously go away overnight.
I mean, that's common sense.
We know that.
But it still needs to be said.
Yeah.
You know, somebody listening needs to hear that.
Yeah.
That it just, it's an encouragement.
Yeah.
Right.
Listen, that things can get better.
Yes.
You just have to do something that we don't like to do in America very much and that's
called work.
Yeah.
Come on.
Marriage is, marriage, when I say it's hard work, it's hard work, but it's enjoyable
hard work that it's work to get things back on track that are off track.
Yeah.
And so when you think of it like, okay, we're a train here and our train is just derailed
a little bit.
How do we get that back on?
Well, what's an attainable, what's something easy that each of you could do to get things
back on track?
Well, the first thing we've got to do is just pick the train up and put it back on the track.
Yeah.
Let's not even start it yet.
Yeah.
Just set it, let it sit there.
Yeah.
And then we can find out why it went off the track.
That's good.
So we got to back up a little bit.
And I think we would find that there was unmet expectations or unrealized or unknown, unknown,
sorry, unknown expectations from one or the other.
Yeah.
And if you guys would talk to each other or if we would talk to each other, I mean, you
got to go deep with this.
Yeah.
Right.
You have to go deep.
Yeah.
The surface stuff, if your marriage is really in trouble and it went off the tracks, the
surface garbage isn't going to fix it.
Right.
It just not.
Right.
You got to find out why, why did my wife do that?
Why does she feel that way?
What did I do to make you so angry?
Yeah.
Or honey, what did I do?
You know, you made me to the wife, you made me really angry.
Yeah.
You made me over this period of time.
If you really dig down, you would probably find there was some unmet or unknown expectations.
Yeah.
I thought you were going to do this.
I thought you were going to be this by now.
Yeah.
I thought by now, I thought by now you'd be more spiritual than you are, which is a horrible
thing to put on your spouse.
It happens.
Oh, no, no.
It happens.
It does.
We know.
We talked about marrying, marrying that potential rather than marrying the person.
Oh, right.
We talk about that one a lot.
It's, it's, it's a, it's a killer, isn't it?
Yeah, it is.
It can be a killer.
Yes.
It can be.
Yes.
And the devil or the enemy, I should say, he loves that kind of stuff.
Oh yeah.
He loves divided marriages.
Yeah.
And we've talked about even the buttons of the past coming in and you don't know how,
you don't know about those buttons until you dig deep.
All of a sudden you're flashing back, something triggers.
You just go, you said something.
It's such a way that I'm like, now you've, you know, whatever.
And it's like, but if you don't talk about it as opposed to, again, we, we talk about
that a lot as far as like, you're not my ex.
You're not this person.
You're not that situation, you know.
But also you're not my Holy Spirit.
You're not my Holy Spirit either.
That's right.
You can't, your spouse can't be your savior.
Oh gosh.
And your spouse is not there to make you happy.
That's right.
It's true.
Let's just sit on that.
I mean, I felt, I, we feel the people a lot of times when we're in that moment.
Wow.
Okay.
Say that again.
Your spouse is not your savior and your spouse is not there to make you happy.
Shoot.
That's truth.
That's just not there.
It's not their job to make you happy because if that is their job, then they're going to
disappoint you every time.
Right.
You're right.
And you're going to hold it over them.
And every time they don't make you happy or every time they do something wrong or every
time they do something to disappoint you, there's going to be an internal anger that's
churned.
And you guys know this anger turns to bitterness.
Yeah.
And boy, once you get a bitter wife, that's hard to come back.
It's hard to come back from.
It is.
And your husband has to really work hard.
It can be fixed.
Yes.
We've seen it.
Yeah.
It can be fixed, but there's a lot of damage control because the triggers, like you said,
that's a perfect word.
They're all over the place.
Yeah.
And you say, honey, I didn't know you felt that way.
Yeah.
I didn't know you expected that of me.
Yeah.
I didn't know.
Well, you should have, you should have.
I've said it a million times.
Well, yeah, you said it at me.
Right.
I didn't say it to me.
Wow.
And there's a, there's a big difference of speaking at someone and speaking to someone.
Yes.
So even if I changed the tone of my voice, that's beautiful.
That's exactly how it feels.
Yeah.
Especially to a man.
Oh yeah.
You know, you get talked at.
After a while, you're just, a lot of men, that's how we were raised.
You just tune it.
Yeah.
You get talked at.
Yeah.
You gotta be this and you gotta be that and you gotta be this and you gotta be that.
And all of a sudden.
Starting in grade school.
Charlie Brown's teacher.
Yeah.
Talking to us.
Yeah.
You just tune it out.
Wow.
And then you, so you've got a whole bunch of tuned out, tuned out husbands and bitter
wives.
Yep.
Yeah.
Gosh.
And they get in the, they get in the same room and the kids leave and they don't even
know what to say to each other.
And then some people in the church, they wonder why divorce rates in the church mirror divorce
rates in the world.
Right.
Dang it.
Because if someone, if the husband has lost his way or the wife has lost her way or they've
both lost their way in their marriage, here's the unfortunate part.
Someone's going to come along.
Yep.
That fills that.
Yep.
That's not supposed to be in this picture.
Correct.
Yes.
And that's, that's a whole nother conversation there.
Right.
Yeah.
We know what happens there.
Yeah.
It's all downhill.
Yeah.
And there's no hiding it.
No.
There's no hiding it.
No, there's not.
It, it, it, and if you're thinking about doing that or if you're talking to someone, uh,
either online or social media or by Facebook, a past person, or a person that you work with
and it's starting to go a little too far, I want to just caution you, just cut that
off.
Yeah.
That's not going to save you.
It's not going to fulfill you.
It is not going to do anything for you.
It will bring destruction and that is directly from the enemy.
And so I just want to speak life and hope into anyone listening that, Oh man, please
hear me.
Yeah.
If you're thinking about doing this and stepping out on your spouse, I implore you, I implore
you please talk to your spouse.
Talk to, if you want to talk to a pastor, talk to a pastor, but if you don't want to
talk to a pastor, find some married couple that you trust.
Yeah.
That has it good.
Yeah.
If you're a man and you're thinking about doing this with someone else or then go talk
to the guy privately and say, I'm this, my head's going here.
Let them speak some sense into you.
And ladies, the same thing, find a trusted woman and say, my heart is going someplace
it shouldn't go.
I need some help.
And then let them, let them speak the life of God and the presence of God into your life.
And as soon as you get that and let them pray for you too, it'll, it will snap your head
back on straight before you do something that, that is, that's very difficult to repair.
It's not impossible.
Nothing's impossible.
That's right.
Nothing's impossible.
I remember it was a guitar that I was watching online.
I like to watch acoustic guitar repairs.
He's also a musician.
I'm a musician too.
I played guitar for over 40 years.
Has his own music.
Good looking.
For some reason, I love watching this guy, these guys repair these guitars and some of
them are just, they are, they are in bad shape.
Oh wow.
Cause you wouldn't think, I mean, the headstock where, where the tuners are, they're snapped
off completely.
Wow.
It's just two separate pieces.
Yeah.
And one of these guys said, you know, he was talking to the camera and he said, a lot of
people ask me is, is this repairable?
And he said something that actually was very spiritual to me.
Okay.
He said, I want to tell all you watching this, this, uh, this program, all guitars are repairable.
It just depends on how much work you want to put into it.
Good.
And when he said that, I thought, Oh my gosh, our guy gave like the marriage line of, of
a lifetime.
Yes.
Right.
Everything is repairable.
Yeah.
And not just marriage, but I mean, spiritually,
everything is repairable.
It just depends on how much you want to work to fix it.
And darn it.
If they don't go in there and fix it, that's awesome.
And you can't even tell it was busted.
Yeah.
That's phenomenal.
And, um, that's what God does.
He fixes things to where you look back and you go, I can't even tell this was busted
anymore.
Cause that's just, that's just what he does.
If we'll let him, you know, and you and your spouse do it together.
And good marriages are unstoppable.
That's right.
Yeah.
When you're together, when you're together and you are truly best friends and you want
the best for each other, you're unstoppable.
That's right.
In the kingdom of God and in the kingdom of darkness and the enemy just hates, our enemy
hates good marriages.
Cause he knows he can't stop them.
Yeah.
He just can't.
Yeah.
What's he going to do?
Step on our toes.
Yeah.
You know, well that's okay.
She'll just walk faster for me.
Yeah.
You know, her vice versa.
Yeah.
So that's, um, it's just the communication part is just so important.
Yeah.
It really is.
And feel feeling safe enough to be able to say something to your spouse.
Yeah.
That they're not going to get angry at you.
Yeah.
You know.
If they encounter a relationship that they don't feel safe enough, how would you, would
you bring another person in?
Would you, what would you say in that moment?
Because again, we believe that everything can be repaired, but if, if they don't feel
like they're being heard or if they don't feel like they're being received in the way
that they need to, what would be, do you have any thoughts on that one?
Am I making sense?
Oh yeah.
No, complete sense.
Complete sense.
There are times where I've taken the guys just by myself, just him and I, and, um, help
him through some things.
It's good.
No, that's good.
Because, um, there's a, there's a term it's called scotoma.
Okay.
Scotoma is a, is a fancy word for blind spots.
Okay.
We all have scotomas.
Okay.
When we live in a house and we live in the same house that's got a crack in the wall,
we have a, we have a scotoma to that, to that crack.
Cause we, but when someone new comes in, they'll go, well, there's a crack in the wall.
I see that plain as day, but we don't see it.
It's a scotoma.
It's a blind spot.
Gotcha.
And we as men or you as women, we have, we have scotomas all over the place that we can't
see.
We don't realize we have them and our spouse will bring something up and we'll say, well,
I don't, I don't see that.
Yeah.
But as you're talking to your trusted friends or your trusted married couples, or even your
pastor, as you start talking through things, man, they will spot that scotoma immediately
through what you say.
And they'll say, well, I know what it is.
I know here's what it is.
You're not listening to her.
Yeah.
You're, you're listening to give a response.
You're not listening to listen.
Yeah.
You got to be a better listener or I heard what you said, man, you're, that's harsh, dude.
Yeah.
You're being harsh, man.
You're being so harsh with her.
Yeah.
This is God's daughter.
You know, you can't talk to them like that.
Yeah.
You can't talk to her that way.
Use different words, use different, you know, just stuff like that.
That's what I would do with the guys.
Yeah.
You know, and not so uncertain terms with some of them.
Yeah.
You know, we get down to some guys, I get down to nitty gritty.
Good.
And I get right in almost kind of in their face.
Yeah.
I mean, not face to face, but I mean, you got to get in there Kool-Aid.
For sure.
Really in there.
Yeah.
Because men, men respond to pain.
Okay.
We just do.
Yeah.
We get in a fight.
That hurt man.
We're good.
You know, we used to get in, you know, I don't want to get off the subject here, but it's
going to make sense to somebody.
Yeah.
When I was in the neighborhood that I grew up in, we had sometimes 25, 30 guys would
play football together.
It was just a huge neighborhood and we'd play soccer and football and all.
So we didn't play with pads.
Well, heaven, someone's going to hit somebody too hard and it's going to start.
Yeah.
You know?
I did it a few times.
You get in a scrap and you stand up and you look at each other and bam, bam, and you pop
each other a couple of times with a fist.
You know, pain sends a message to guys and we're like, ow, that hurts.
Yeah.
I don't like that.
I don't want to do that anymore.
Yeah.
You know?
And, um.
I wish women were like that.
Yeah.
Just hit me harder.
But my point is, is that when a man experiences pain, whether emotional, spiritual or physical,
he's more open than ever before in his life when he's in pain.
I think I agree with that.
Yeah.
No, I see that.
Yeah.
Because you're vulnerable.
Yeah.
And men don't like to be vulnerable.
No, they don't.
No, not at all.
We don't like it, do we?
No.
Because it's seen as weak.
Exactly.
You know?
And it's, you know, for, because again, for so long, and you know, I've talked about this
with other guys and all of it, it's, you know, for so long, it's, you know, men don't have
emotions.
Men need to just, you know, just man up and men just, you know, men just need to take
care of the house, take care of the cars, you know, just.
You go earn the money.
Shut your mouth and do, you know, do what your wife tells you, you know, or do what
your parents tell you.
You know, you just that that's what you do.
You know, sometimes you just you go on autopilot.
You just go on, you know, almost.
Yeah.
You go on autopilot.
You become a robot.
You just, you know, I do you hurt?
No, I don't hurt.
I'm fine.
No, I just got a little swagger.
I'm fine.
You know?
Yeah.
I'm not hurt.
I'm not sick until things are falling apart.
Yeah.
Yeah, I'm fine.
How's your marriage?
It's fine.
Yeah, it's not.
No, it's not.
We don't fight.
It's fine.
Yeah, we don't talk, but we don't fight.
I was about to say the same thing.
That's what I was going to say.
Communication.
That's what it all comes down to.
You have to be honest with each other.
You have to talk to each other.
And you know, men respond to pain, but women sometimes just need to talk.
They just need the listening.
You know, you guys, sometimes you think you have to fix everything for us.
I know.
Sometimes we don't need anything fixed.
We just need you to listen to us.
Correct.
Yeah.
Just listen to us.
Give us a hug.
It's going to be okay.
That's right.
Yeah, and I do.
I get, she tells me, if you can't see, we're rolling our eyes and making faces.
You adore her.
Oh, I do.
And I want to fix everything for her with some of this stuff she deals with at a certain
job that she has.
And it's crazy.
And it's just crazy.
Yeah.
She tells me about these people she deals with.
And I'm just like, well, why don't you just tell them to dot dot dot?
And she's like, I can't do that.
But at the same time, we do ask each other every day, how was your day?
And I know what I'm going to hear.
It wasn't a good day.
And that's okay.
How much more do I need to listen on that day?
I don't need to do so much listen.
I had a great day today.
What did you do?
Well, I did.
Okay, that's fine.
I really need to as a man, at least on this part of the marriage part, I need to more
listen on.
I had a really crappy day today.
Yeah.
Oh, what happened?
Tell me.
Because what we don't realize, Luke, is when we are vulnerable, we're actually stronger.
Amen.
That's the strongest man you're ever going to find is one that's vulnerable.
Agreed.
And then you are open.
Right.
You're open book.
You don't care who sees.
That's strength to me.
A guy that can grab his wife and cry.
Or a man that hits the floor in prayer and cries.
Or worships, lifts his hands to God and just total abandonment of worship and cries.
See, that's vulnerable.
Because your heart's expressed out in front of the world to see.
But guess who else sees it?
Your wife.
Oh, good.
Who'd you say?
I said your king.
Your king, yes.
But also, your wife sees that.
And your kids.
And I bet Lori can attest that that's the sexiest when those guys get like that.
Oh, it is.
It is.
And then the next day then getting a text that says, well, I know your day probably
isn't going well.
Oh, I did.
I touched through that yesterday.
But I just want you to know that I love you and I appreciate you so much.
Aw.
I did.
It just helps.
I just felt that, after the day, I was working on my sermon for Sunday and we were doing
baptisms and I'm speaking before.
And I was just, you know, in prayer and stuff.
And I just felt that little, I just call it a little knock on your heart.
You know, almost like a little thud with your, if you take your finger, I'm taking my finger
and just going thud.
Yeah.
You feel a little thud on your heart for your spouse?
Do it.
I need to send a text.
Yeah.
Just quick.
I did and it was needed and wonderful and I appreciate it.
I know you're probably having a rough day because it's just the rough time of year for
her job that she does.
And I said, I know you're probably having a rough day, but just know that I love you
and I appreciate you so much.
And I even put a heart emoji.
He did.
And but it's just little things like that for another, it's just another way of communicating.
Yeah.
Yes.
It's just a way of communicating.
And what it says is, I'm thinking about you.
Yeah.
We're good.
I'm just, I'm thinking about you.
Yeah.
You know, and little things like that I know for her and probably for you too, that goes
a long way.
Right.
Yeah.
That can fill a tank pretty quick.
Luke will send me silly reels off of Instagram.
Oh, that's great.
How silly.
And some of them are just really funny.
And some of them are just kind of sweet.
Yeah.
And just from kind of another way of communicating, because I believe that you had even said it
during your talk with all of us that finding, if you stumble over your words or if you're
not someone that communicates or you're like literally, you're just literally on the track,
how do we even start this conversation?
I don't even know what to say.
Yeah.
Sometimes the text, sometimes the writing of the note.
He had sent me a real one day, this was months ago.
And with his background dealing with some of the trauma and the things that he's dealt
with over the years, sometimes he can't always express exactly what's going on in that moment.
And he found the most, you remember that day, I was in the car, we were driving and I'm
reading this text and I'm crying because all of a sudden I'm seeing, I'm seeing him in
a space that I didn't realize that, you know, it's like he's peeling that stuff back and
being as vulnerable as he can, but it's like, he's like, I can't put this into words, but
man, this is literally where I'm at.
And so I would also encourage a lot of times it's like, find out if you can't find the
words, figure out how to find it.
We are in technology.
Yeah.
That's right.
I mean, just good Lord.
Yeah.
You can put it across the sky, whatever you got to do, but just like get it out, get that
ball rolling.
Yes.
And then that's when a lot of the healing can start happening.
The fact that you're trying.
Yeah.
And that's a great point because you're right.
Some guys and some girls, both, I don't know how to say this.
I don't know how to communicate this.
I don't know how to tell you how I'm feeling.
Yeah.
Well, that's okay.
Just do your best.
And I think just like you said, even just by trying means so much to the other spouse,
right?
Yeah.
That you're at least making an effort to tell me how you're feeling.
If you're upset about something, I want to know.
And I think, cause this just hit me.
I think sometimes the spouses that aren't the best at communicating and bringing their
words across, but they are better at writing, I think the other spouse needs to appreciate
that and needs to do their best to accept that because they're like, well, they're not
talking to me and they only text me.
Okay.
At least they're texting you.
Yeah.
That's their strong part of communication.
I joke that I'm really good at writing emails and communicating through emails because that's
what I do a lot at work.
But when I talk, I jumble over my words a lot.
And so it's like, can we just do this email conversation?
Sure.
And it's like, so yeah.
So it's like, I get that.
And I did.
It did.
It just hit me that sometimes spouses, we need to appreciate that effort and appreciate
that other form of communication because at least you're communicating.
Yeah.
It's fantastic.
Cause you're finding out, you have found out what your spouse's strength is.
Yes.
Yeah.
You mostly already know what their weaknesses are.
Oh gosh.
But now you found a strength.
Yeah.
Oh, well dive into that then.
Yeah.
Okay, sweetheart.
If this is the best way for us to communicate on some deep level things, I mean, we still
need to try to talk sometimes.
Yes.
Of course.
Yes.
But if there's something really deep going on with you, I want to know, you know, then
do it that way.
Yeah.
I'm fine with that.
Yeah.
And, you know, I'll just say one more thing as I'm thinking about it, is we're talking
through this stuff is if you're the other spouse, probably I think one of the worst
things you could do to your, to your spouse is compare them to another spouse.
Don't do it.
And how they communicate.
Let me give you an example.
Let's say that, that it is hard for whoever to say this is how I'm feeling.
You know, eventually they'll, you know, come out, but why sure wish you were like, you
know, you're, you're listening.
I'm watching us in here.
We're all nodding.
Yeah.
You guys listening already know where I'm going with this.
Yeah.
What an insult that would be to your spouse.
Oh yeah.
That's almost the equivalent, Luke, of me comparing my wife's body to another, to another
lady's body.
We don't do that.
No.
Which is incredibly, incredibly insulting.
Yeah.
Oh yes.
Yes it is.
To do to her.
Yeah.
I mean, this woman carried my three children.
Yeah.
You know, how, how dare I look at another woman and compare that person to this beautiful
person.
You know what I'm saying?
What an insult.
Yeah.
What an insult to God.
So guys, if you're, if you're listening to this, don't do that.
Don't compare your wife's body to another woman.
It's insult.
It's an insult.
She is not, she doesn't, she is not born the right to do that.
She does not have the right to carry that.
Yeah.
Like your wife does.
But also, you know, so we don't want to look at another marriage and compare our marriage
to that marriage.
That's good.
You know, and say, well, if you were like him, if you were as spiritual as him, if you
prayed like that, if you did like that, if you talked like that, boy, things would sure
be a lot better.
Why don't you talk to me like they do on the podcast?
Yeah.
We have heard that one.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's true.
That's true.
And, uh, but you know, we, we didn't always talk like this, you know, in our early days,
you know, we had to learn each other's quirks and learn what our triggers brought up.
That's such a great word.
More like learn each other's triggers and each other's paths and how we grew up and
what we believed.
But the more we did, we learned pretty quick though.
Right.
And we learned pretty quick of what, not so much what to do, what more not to do.
Yeah.
Um, and it saves you, you know, so that's another great, just a great little nugget for this
podcast is don't ever compare.
You know, comparisons kill.
Yes.
They just do.
Yeah.
And so we just got to be real careful that we don't compare ourselves to another person
or our spouse to another person.
Yeah.
Agreed.
Because they bring something beautiful to the table that nobody else does.
I mean, I'll speak the goodness of God all over Lori because she's probably one of my
absolute favorite people.
She's just, she exudes, she exudes literally the beauty of God in my mind, like the gentleness
and the tenderness of God.
And it's one of those where if you were trying to be somebody else, right?
Okay.
We're going to speak us as the women, right?
As the wives, we have a tendency to compare ourselves.
We don't need the guys to do it.
Right.
We can compare ourselves.
We can sit here and say, man, I wish I was a better mom.
Man, I wish my house was better.
I wish the list goes on and on.
Right.
And it's like, we need to finally step back and say, I'm a gift.
I'm a gift.
Not just that our spouses are gifts, but we need to recognize that, you know what?
I'm a gift too.
And I get to bring something that nobody else gets.
I say this to my students a lot because you and I are both teachers.
And it's like, I say this to them a lot.
Do you know that God saw the earth and literally said, man, I need a Lori and here you are.
Here you are.
Right.
And it's like, if we would take that time to say, okay, I get to bring something to
the table.
I'm not, I'm not secondhand goods.
I'm not used up.
I'm not whatever.
I'm not my past.
I'm not my, I'm not even my presence.
Sometimes I'm just father.
I'm here.
And he says, you literally designed me.
So I get to just, I get to be, and I get to be a gift.
And it's like, cause what was it?
One of the weeks we had actually talked about it on one of the other episodes of the podcast,
I had a revelation.
Okay.
Pass it Eric, hold your ears.
But I had it.
I had a revelation.
It's fine.
I was in the shower.
I started holding my ears.
Yeah.
So I'm in the shower.
Okay.
He's in the bedroom.
We're getting ready for a bed.
All of a sudden us as women, our bodies change, right?
Right.
We're not the same size as we were.
We are.
Stuff happens, right?
Things happen.
And all of a sudden I was like, whoa, how incredibly cool is it?
This guy gets to rediscover me every time I come out of the shower.
Like that wasn't there last week.
But you hear what I'm saying.
If we, if we would stop letting the enemy, cause you guys have the same thing.
We all don't look the way that none of us looked out.
No.
And that's the beauty of it.
That's what's cool about it.
As opposed to taking it on like, oh my gosh, I'm aging.
Oh my gosh.
I don't, oh my gosh.
And it's like, no, wait a minute, father, I thank you that you have me in a season and
I get to embrace this season and the shell that you've put me in, I'm going to be everything
you want me to be in this season.
In this shell.
That's good.
You know?
And it's like, if we take that time to do that for each other, to look at each other
and say, Hey, you know?
And just take that moment and remember, I love when you guys said, start speaking those
things out about your spouse because it reminds you who they are.
It reminds you who they are.
And it reminds the enemy, oh wait, no, no, no.
That's right.
They're a gift.
Yeah.
You know, as opposed to tearing them down, but you're building each other up.
Right.
That's good.
Absolutely.
Cause you would be incomplete.
Yeah.
Without the other person.
I agree.
Yeah.
You know, till death do you part.
And you know, I know we don't, I don't want to come across as condemning because I do know
that sometimes things happen.
Yes.
And it just doesn't work.
Yeah.
You know?
You're listening and, and you're hearing all this and it's just not working.
And you've already made some decisions that you have to do some things.
Well, you know, God can, God can repair you.
Yes.
You know, and make all things new and it's, it's okay.
Yeah.
And then I know that's not what you wanted and maybe that's not the best, but that happens
on the other side of it though.
Um, we, we would be incomplete.
Without the spouse.
Yeah.
Right.
Agreed.
You have a half, you know, and when one of us goes from this earth and the other one's
left here, how are they going to remember you?
Yeah.
You know, are they going to go, whew, thank God that's over with.
Now I can really start to live.
Yeah.
Are you going to say, this is not, I'm going to still function, but you know, part of me,
part of me is gone.
Yes.
You know?
Oh yeah.
And that's now you have to think of it is that this other person completes you.
Yeah.
It makes you whole.
It carries burdens with you.
You don't carry them by yourself.
You carry them together.
Yeah.
You carry your joys and the fun and the laughter and the goofiness, you know, but also, hey,
the heaviness and the hardships and the death of parents or friends or whatever the case
may be.
Yeah.
You carry everything together through this thing called, as Prince sang, through this
thing called life.
Yeah.
If you're old enough, you know, through this thing called life.
I now have this song going in my head.
It's the best.
And when you think of it like that, you know, everything that we've talked about, and I
know we've talked a lot about a lot of stuff, but when you think about it, it's very core.
You're walking through life with a person, you know, actually three people, you two and
the Holy Spirit.
Amen.
But you're walking through life together and you do everything together.
And when you do everything together, you build everything together.
When you build everything together, you'll have success together.
And when you have success together, you can have failure, but still have success because
you built together.
Yeah.
I like that.
Hey, if you're going down, you're going down together.
Yeah.
There have been times when things have been tough and we just say, man, so glad we're
in this together.
We're in this together.
You know, and that's the way it should be.
It is.
It's just stuff.
I just want people to have hope for their marriages.
If you love God, you and your spouse love God, there's hope.
There's hope that you can be restored and refreshed and you can find love for your spouse
that you didn't even know was there.
It can be better than ever before.
So I just want you to find that hope and communication is key, whatever form or mode that looks like,
but just talk to each other.
Say good things over each other.
Believe the best in each other.
Always believe that your spouse is looking out for your good.
And that will be a start.
That will help.
And you know, I know we're probably finishing up, but as we're finishing up and you were
saying that, I just had like almost a vision.
I don't have those very often, but I did.
I think right now there's a woman listening and you're crying right now as we're talking
because your husband has not been real good to you recently and you're saying, I don't
think my husband could ever do this.
I don't think my husband could ever do that.
And I just want to pray for you.
I just want to pray for you right now that the hope of God and the hope of the Holy Spirit
would come into your life, into your heart, into your home and would surround you with
what Laurie said, with hope.
And I pray for your husband that he would come to the realization and the knowledge
that you do love him.
That you do love him.
And he loves you.
And God loves him.
And I pray that God would send a man into his life to speak into his life.
And he's going to do it.
He's going to do it.
But you have to believe that God's going to do it.
And he can do it.
He can do all things.
And I just pray that for you that you would, like you said, Laurie, that you would have
hope.
That you would have hope that everything's okay.
Everything's okay.
Your husband's not abandoning you.
He's not going to abandon you.
He just needs some encouragement.
So if all of you listening, I don't know how many of you have churches or if you're even
churchy or not.
If you are, just make sure you have some sort of a good fellowship that you can go to.
If not a fellowship or a church, make sure, like you guys always talk about, get some
friends around you that have a good marriage and say, I want a marriage that kind of resembles
this.
Yes.
You know, they're obviously doing something right.
And I need that in my life.
Listen, those people will, they won't they?
They will grab you with open arms and say, hey, we'll help you.
Because marriage is supposed to be fun and it's supposed to be a joy.
And you know, I know you said we walk through everything together.
Because we put the work in early, it's not work now.
It's fun and we speak and we are honest with each other and we step in when the other is
weak.
I mean, it's not work now.
It's a joy and it's a blessing.
And I just want that for everybody because if your marriage is modeled after a biblical
marriage, it is supposed to be full of joy, full of love, full of life.
Full of a lot of booty taps.
Yeah.
Yes.
The guys always perk up at that stuff.
They start talking about sex and stuff.
And they're like, hey, now you're talking in my language.
I tried not to get on too much on that loop, you know, because the wife's like, I think
I married a pervert.
And you're like, no, no, God put that in there.
God put that in there on purpose.
You know, there was one episode we were talking about sex and intimacy and I had that revelation
of don't if you know, especially men, but women too, do not feel like a pervert for
lusting after your spouse.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
And it was like, it was one of those things that it like really hit me.
I'm like, that's how many people think of that though.
You know, they're like, oh, I shouldn't be thinking these thoughts.
Why?
It's your spouse.
You should be thinking those things.
What else are you going to do?
If you're going to daydream about somebody, it better be the person that you're hanging
with.
Yeah.
And you know, I don't, I guess since we're on this now, I don't know how much time we've
got left.
Now we're good.
Keep going.
I don't know how much time we've got left, but you know, guys and girls listening, just
say it.
Your daughters aren't in the room.
You can get, yeah, you can get creative.
Yes sir.
In the bedroom.
Yes.
Because listen, don't be a prude.
Okay.
Yes, we're Christians, but just because you want to try new things and do new things with
each other and experiment and all that stuff does not mean you're a pervert.
It does not mean that you're being ungodly or un-Christian.
It's actually the opposite.
God put, remember God put these feelings, these emotions, these drives.
It's a sex drive.
It's supposed to be for one person and that person's in there with you.
Yes.
So, so make it count.
Yeah.
Even if it's a quickie.
Yeah.
Quickies are fine.
Yeah.
You know, sometimes the guy's like, honey, I'm, you know, I need some attention, you
know, and it's a quickie and that's all right.
Yeah.
You move on, but sex and intimacy is vital.
Yes.
I mean, I know we're joking and stuff, but it's vital to the marriage.
Yes.
In the marriage bed.
Yeah.
And there's nothing probably worse in a marriage that's been going for a while than boring
sex.
That's good.
Yeah.
It's just boring.
Yeah.
You know, and both of you know, we got to spice this up a little bit.
It's good.
You know?
I'll throw the disclaimer out there.
Have a conversation before you spring something on yourself.
Yeah.
Good point.
Maybe do that one.
Oh, now that's a good idea.
Maybe do that one.
Yeah.
Make sure.
Yeah.
Again, communicate everything.
Yeah.
I got it in visuals.
Yeah, I know.
Nothing.
Yeah.
I mean, you have to, exactly.
You have to, you have to agree on things.
Yes.
You talk things through what, what's in bounds, what's out of bounds.
And all that kind of stuff.
And things you can actually revisit later though, too.
Yeah.
Yes.
Like, I'm not comfortable in the very beginning of our marriage or we've had babies, our bodies
are doing, hey, maybe, you know, and then again, that communication.
Yeah.
And again, there's nothing out of bounds with God.
Yeah.
So you've created our bodies and your spouse's body for you to like it.
Absolutely.
Not be repelled by it and say, Oh, we've got to be Christians.
We can't be, we can't be doing stuff like the world does.
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
God created that.
Yeah.
The world did not create that.
Come on.
The enemy distorts it.
Yes.
And makes it appear dirty.
Yeah.
With, with porn and all that other garbage.
Yeah.
And that is the enemy's interpretation of sex and intimacy.
Yes.
Not God's.
Right.
So we've got to take, actually, we've got to take this back.
Yes.
Into the marriage bed.
Yes.
And make it what it is.
Yes.
It is, it, as funny as it sounds, it's actually holy as unto the Lord.
Yes.
And he set apart for his, for his use and he created this not just to make children.
Correct.
But to also bring together a husband and a wife in a way that the bond is, is, is unbreakable.
Right.
Because you are, you're really vulnerable.
Yeah.
Yes.
You know?
Yes.
And there's a trust value there.
But at the same time, ladies, if you're, if your husband listens to this and kind of
looks at you with fire in his eyes, don't get scared.
Yeah.
This is a, this is a validation that says you can do things in the marriage bed that
are holy to the Lord.
And it will strengthen your marriage because you're going to have to talk about stuff that
might be a little embarrassing, but it won't be after a while because the guy will go,
yes, finally.
You know, and even the wife, even the wife might actually go, yes, finally.
Yeah.
My husband is, is not being boring.
And for those couples that do, that, that might think that it should be predictable
and boring and monotone, Reins, read Song of Solomon.
I was about to say the same thing.
Yeah.
You're exactly right.
That is, that is perfect.
That's brilliant.
You're exactly right.
Yeah.
Again, another real.
Luke and I are looking at each other like there's nothing else to say.
On that there's nothing else to say.
Describe a chapter.
Song of Solomon will make you blush.
Oh yeah.
The descriptions, you're like, wow.
And if you can't, if you can't say it, if you can't say it, or if you can't express
it in a way, just go this.
Maybe.
Yeah.
You know, if you go, if you go listen to other marriage, marriage people, they'll, they'll
talk about these things too.
They will.
You know, they do talk about these things.
Yeah.
Even more in detail than we probably are.
Yes.
Because sometimes you just do that and that's okay.
It's we're all married.
Yeah.
You can do that.
But I think the thing that we're, we're all trying, all four of us are trying to encourage
our listeners by today is sex was sex and intimacy was, was created by God.
Yes.
For married people.
Yeah.
Yes.
And married.
Yes, sir.
Married.
I'm looking at the microphone.
Married people.
If you're not married.
Yes.
Just, I can't tell you what to do.
Self-control is for the spirit.
You know what to do.
Yeah.
But make, make it count.
That's good.
You know, and that's, that's from my heart.
That's good.
That's really from my heart.
I know from your heart too.
Right.
And from all of us, all four of us.
Yeah.
Make, make it count because it's a beautiful thing to do this with each other.
But at the same time, don't be so over-spiritual that you miss the spontaneity and the beauty
and the creativity that you can come up with.
You know, like you said, talk to each other first.
Yeah.
And that's what's, which is very smart.
But at the same time, I think if you really, really have a talk with each other, you'd
probably find that you're both thinking the same thing.
Yeah.
We've got to spice this up a little bit, honey.
Yeah.
But you just, you know, maybe you don't want to hurt the other's feelings.
Right.
Or whatever.
And I can appreciate that.
Yeah.
But just make sure that you're, you're spicing it up the best that you can.
Yeah.
You know, and I think you'll find that, man, it'll, it'll spice up everything else.
Yes.
How's that?
I agree.
I like it.
I love that.
Yeah.
So any final thoughts before we wrap up?
Do you have any final thoughts?
No, just I, I, it's my prayer that everybody could enjoy marriage and enjoy the spouse
God gave you and just be a light and an example to others around you because it's so needed
today.
It is.
And I just want to segue off that.
I agree totally with that, that I guess my final thought would be that in these days
and the times that we live in, you know, there's always been bad times all through, even through
the Bible.
Yeah.
You know, there's been bad Kings.
There's been bad presidents.
Yeah.
Yes, sir.
Um, but this is our time.
Yes.
In our day.
Yes.
So we have to think of it in our time and in our day.
Yeah.
Strong marriages are needed more now in our time.
Yes.
Then, then ever before.
Yeah.
You know, uh, the marriage bed, I just call it the marriage bed.
Marriage bed for me is just, it's just everything encompassed.
Yeah.
Marriages are being pummeled.
Yes.
Wow.
By a lot of social issues that we don't need to get into here, but we all know what they
are.
Yeah.
And everybody listening, you have your belief of those.
However you believe on those that that's between you and God.
Yeah.
You know, it is, it is.
Yeah.
But for us sitting in this room and those who are Bible believing people, uh, the marriage
is pure.
The marriage bed is pure between a man and a woman.
Yeah.
And that's my stance.
Yeah.
That's how God instituted it from the Bible that I read.
Yeah.
And so, um, if you're listening and you have a strong marriage, you are blessed for one.
But secondly, really work on that marriage and keep it, keep it strong, strong, strong,
moving ahead with the things of God.
Cause you're needed.
Yeah.
You're needed.
I'm needed.
All of us are needed to make marriages and the kingdom of God move forward.
Amen.
The world needs examples.
Absolutely.
They're lost and they need examples.
Yeah.
So be the example that God's called you to be.
And if you don't feel that you are again, reach out to somebody.
Absolutely.
Reach out to somebody.
Well, there's nobody here to help me.
Yeah.
There's, there's people there.
Yeah.
There are people that will help you.
Yes.
Um, you just have to, you actually have to go look.
Yeah.
But you're going to find them.
Even if you're isolated, there are people online.
Oh yeah.
That will help you on heartbeat.
Absolutely.
So find the help that you need to get where you want to go and God will, God, listen,
God will put them in supernaturally in your path.
Amen.
You may not know how, but he, but he will.
All of a sudden something, even if it's something random comes across your social media feed,
that's right.
Oh, I wonder.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
This has been good to you guys.
Yeah.
Thanks for having us.
Thanks for coming.
Absolutely.
Thanks for having us.
Yeah.
I'm applauding.
Yeah.
I'm the, I'm the applauder.
We just honor you guys.
Love and appreciate y'all very much.
We love and appreciate you too.
Genuinely too.
Yeah.
You guys are a beautiful example and beacon of not just marriage, just, just what, just
what God should be looking like.
You guys are God with skin on.
So genuinely we, we adore you guys.
Y'all give us hope.
We're going to beat them when we get older.
Even though they're not men's children.
Love you guys.
Love you.
Thank you.
All right guys.
Have the best week.
Love y'all.