WEBVTT

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Hello and welcome back to another episode of

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Upfront and Undivided with Luke and Dean'na. Hey

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babe. Hey babe. How's it going? You know, I'm

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itchy. I know you are. But not poison ivy itchy.

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Right. It's like allergy season funness. I'm

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on the struggle bus. It's fine. We've got friends

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in the studio with us today, and they're looking

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at me like, you all right? You all right? I'm

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like, I just wanted to cry three times today.

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It's fine. I'm all right. My head is full of

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snot. It's Easter weekend. He is risen. Jesus

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is Lord. God, I need you to be the center of

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it all right now. I need you to kill whatever's

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being resurrected and making me itch. Yeah, that's

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right. I have gone through, I'm not joking, I've

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gone through like half a box of Kleenex. Are

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we serious? Should I use this on my nose? Like,

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it's raw. It hurts. That's enough about me. See?

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Yes. How are we doing? Doing well. Yeah? Yeah.

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It is Easter weekend. It is Easter weekend. I

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keep saying that. So before we get too far in,

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I will say we have Levi and Shannae O 'Brien in

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the house, in the studio. Welcome, y 'all. That's

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my clapping machine. Thanks for having us. It's

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our first time. Levi, we were talking earlier,

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Levi has been here in the studio and Shannae has

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not been recorded. in the studio. So this is

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the first time for her. I'm really pumped. I'm

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pumped to hear from her. Do you know that Shannae's

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one of my favorite people? I've heard this rumor.

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Did you know this rumor? I tell this rumor to

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him a lot. You are one of my favorite people.

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That's nice to hear. You're just legit. Because

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we were just talking about your sister -in -law,

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right? Because she comes in here and she does

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In the Real with me and Marsha. Heather O 'Brien.

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So it's like... It's, well, you're right. No,

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I'm sorry. Because I don't, I forget. Like, not

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everybody listens to all of the things. Why not?

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Hello? Why are we not listening to all of the

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things? Well, and I have a lot of sister -in

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-laws, so. It is true. You are right. You've

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got to be specific. You do. I'm sorry. You're

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right. So, but we were just discussing, so Levi

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is Heather's little brother. And we were discussing

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how Heather's very, very real. Just like, that's

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just who she is. But see, I would say the same

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thing about you. That you're just very, very

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real. So apparently. He is fond of people that

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tell it like it is. Apparently. I mean, not that

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you had any choice with your sister, but you

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picked somebody that just like, let's have a

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conversation. Let's get real about this. And

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it's important. Yeah. It's important. So how

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long have you guys been married? Tell us some

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of the back history, the babies, things like

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that. What has it been? Almost nine years? No

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way. Almost nine years. Congrats. That went fast.

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I don't feel like I'm old enough. You don't look

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old enough. I don't feel old enough. But yeah,

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married almost nine years, three kids. What are

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their ages? Six, three, and almost 11 months.

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Right. What? I don't know how that happened.

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That went fast. Yeah, you still need one soon.

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He's so expressive. All three of your kids are

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expressive. And I am not a baby person, but like

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that one day I looked at you, I said, can I just

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hold you? And I was like, what is wrong with

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you right now? Why am I holding this child? And

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he's just like, he has that effect on people.

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He's sweet. He's very cute. He's sweet. Y 'all

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make cute babies. Thank you. You genuinely do.

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Like each one of them have such neat little personalities.

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They hold their own. Yep. Yep. Yeah. All right.

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Our household is very exciting. Every day. It's

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very fun. And I mean that actually in a positive

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way. I'm a very expressive person. And we've

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seen in Aspen a very expressive girl. Very. She

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will change the world someday. Yeah. For real.

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After we convince her to change her clothes,

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she'll change the world. That's right. Because

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sometimes that's the biggest fight of the day

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is just getting clothes on. But, no, we've talked

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about how, like, there's a lot of similarities

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to when you were growing up and stuff, too, with

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her. And so it's just exciting. Yeah, we do have

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very expressive kids, and we really like that.

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We really like when you give them a gift, they

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show you how much they love it. Like, you know,

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we take them for an experience, and they're just

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into it. And, like, it's all you could ask for

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as a parent, really. I love that. Yeah. I love

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that. So what else? How did you guys meet? We

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met at church. Okay. When he was actually dating

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somebody else. Wait, what? Okay, well, that's

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when we first met. Like, hi, my name's Levi.

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We're interested in each other. You were dating

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somebody else? I was. I was dating somebody taller

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than me. Man, we'll have to talk about it later

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because all of a sudden I'm like, I went blank.

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Like, it's been Shannae. That's all the Shannae.

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That's it. Tall with curly hair. You don't remember

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at all. No. That's fine. No. Good. I don't remember.

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I don't want to say names, to be honest. Don't

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say names. No, it's fine. We'll talk about it

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after. So I was at that time, and I didn't even

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hardly see that she existed as a person, to be

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frank. But at that time, she was still just now

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coming into this thing, trying to figure it out,

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like, do I want to do this or not kind of person.

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So I just didn't even. seer really and then um

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later on i was working in int at the main church

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with our infants and toddlers ministry and i

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remember going to the person who was leading

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it and like i just knew i i need to make some

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sort of change i gotta make a change here something's

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gotta change i gotta do something else maybe

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another ministry or something and she's like

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well our west campus we had a west campus at

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that time needs somebody to lead the infants

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and toddler ministry over there. Would you do

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it? And I was like, yeah, I'll do it. So I went

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there and that's when I met her. Oh, whoa. At

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that time, I was no longer dating. So let's just

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get that clear. I was going to have a follow

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-up question, but there you go. No, it had been,

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I think, more than several months after. um met

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her and started noticing like this girl is doing

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things she doesn't necessarily want to do i would

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see her at pre -service prayer all the time which

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greeting she was greeting and i knew that wasn't

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necessary that is not my personality to be talking

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to everybody that comes in the door and so i

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noticed those things and like she just had a

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heart after god and was pursuing her i think

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at that point you'd been here a year and so it

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had gotten to the point where this is what i

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want and what i'm doing yeah right like she had

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been transformed then i noticed her you know

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and um and so then i just started talking to

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her about the weather and things like that like

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anything i could i could think of i didn't know

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it's february okay it's february in missouri

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yes and he says so it's cold outside i go yeah

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it's february Like, what are you supposed to

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say to that? That's what I appreciate about Levi,

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his smoothness. I mean, that is smooth. Yeah.

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It's cold outside. I mean, and so then I would

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just, like, every time there was a service, I

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would just, like, try to get some conversation

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with her going. Yeah. Although he did have to

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go to my brother and say, yeah, so your sister,

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my brother said, Shannae? Yeah, Shannae. Because

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he didn't know how to. Say my name. I read it

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on Facebook. I didn't know how to say it. Your

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name, just like Dean'na's name, is unique. And it's

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like, I can really butcher this. I don't want

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to out loud. I got called Shane a lot growing

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up. It makes sense. I've heard you called Shanna

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or Shannon. Shanna. Shannon's my sister's name,

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though, so not me. But I have been called that

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many times. I love that. And then so how long

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was it before you finally broke her down? Well,

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it wasn't even him. Because I'm talking to my

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brother Derek and my sister -in -law Sabrina,

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and I'm like, how do I nicely tell someone I'm

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not interested? I was like, he was homeschooled.

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He's loved Jesus forever. I was a pretty messy

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person. I just don't think that's a good idea.

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He's thinking, she talks to me. He got my phone

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number, so I would text him back because he would

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ask questions that I couldn't just ignore because

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I didn't want to be a jerk. Smooth. I'm like,

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how do I get rid of this person? Right, right.

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But then church happened. He was on stage praying,

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and I find myself staring at him, and I catch

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myself and go, what the heck are you doing? People

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can see that you're just staring at this guy.

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And then God says, hey. I'm like, no. And God

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says, yeah, look at him. No. And then the Lord

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said to me, you're really going to let your past

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get in the way of your future. And very immediately

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I said, yes, absolutely. You're honest. And God's

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like, come on. I'm like, okay, fine. We can try

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it out. Okay. Yeah. I will let the walls come

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down. I will have a conversation with him. Yeah.

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And just see what happens. And it was like an

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immediate change. Oh, my gosh. I come down from

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the stage and start talking to her. And it was

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like a whole new world. I'm like, wow, where

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is this conversation? I didn't even realize I

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was being walled up. To be honest, God just blinded

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me to it. I'm like, things are going well. We're

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having these good conversations. But then that

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night, it's just another level. And from there,

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it just kind of went. Well, because you had always

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said you wanted someone who was interested in

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you for how you loved God and not really for

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who you were, but for what they could see in

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you. Yeah, I wanted somebody I married. I wanted

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them to be attracted to me because of my relationship

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with God. wow and so on the stage praying in

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front of the church is when she was like i'm

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staring at this guy i'm wow and i always prayed

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for that i always wanted because it was such

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an important part of who i was i needed them

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to be someone who would value a relationship

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with god that it would be attractive to them

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and that's what pulled her in i love that that's

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what it was i love that No, I do. And that's

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a bold, that's a bold prayer. Like, I mean, babe,

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you're hot, but you know what I'm saying? Like,

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you just want to go, okay, but you love Jesus.

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Do you love Jesus? Because we say that to our

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daughter all the time. It's like, listen, this,

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all of this, like it changes, it shifts. It's

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always doing something different. But this, that,

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like all of that, like. That's what you want.

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You want somebody that's pursuing God, that loves

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God, because they're going to see you with the

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eyes of the Lord as opposed to the physical,

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the shallow. Yeah. Wow. Look at you, girl. That's

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deep. Should that start leading us into why we

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really came here to talk today? I think that

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would be interesting. Yeah, you jump in any time

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you want to. Why are y 'all here? Why are we

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here? Because y 'all had a conversation with

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us a couple few months ago. Has it been that

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long? I think so. Yeah, it has been that long.

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Yeah, it's been a while. So this is kind of the

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follow -up to that conversation. Sure. So one

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and or both of you, the floor is yours. Yeah,

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so you want me to kind of tell? So it was December

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6, 2023. It was a Wednesday night. We were working

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at the church that night, and I knew the whole

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day. I have something I've got to tell Shannae.

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And kind of the week leading up to that, I had

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reached out to a buddy who came to our church

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there for a while that I knew had gone through

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this, and I told him, hey man, I have an addiction

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to pornography, and I need help. And he's talking

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to me about it, and I'm like, what can I do?

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You know, I'm honestly just at this point like,

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okay, I have an issue I need to overcome. Because

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for a while there, I kind of just... Didn't see

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it as the issue that it was because it was so

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infrequent in ways. And I was able to deceive.

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I was deceived. Deception isn't deception if

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it's not 100%. Right. I was totally deceived

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by this thing. That's good. I didn't recognize

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it until God started leading me through a humility

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thing, blah, blah, blah, blah. But it led me

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to this point to call this guy. He tells me,

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you need to tell your wife. I told him I will

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not do that. I was like, there is literally anything

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else in the world for me to do. I would do that.

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And real quick, I will say that because we have

00:13:24.200 --> 00:13:28.679
interviewed them. It was Dustin Weidman. So I

00:13:28.679 --> 00:13:30.860
can get the reference later for anybody that

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wants to follow up on that. But we have interviewed

00:13:32.779 --> 00:13:35.639
them. We did talk to them in here. Great, great

00:13:35.639 --> 00:13:39.100
couple. Amazing couple. And I'm so glad, grateful

00:13:39.100 --> 00:13:42.059
for them because of all this. So he told me that's

00:13:42.059 --> 00:13:44.259
what I needed to do. And I was like, I will do

00:13:44.259 --> 00:13:50.980
literally anything else. And because I knew how

00:13:50.980 --> 00:13:53.899
it would devastate her. And also in a selfish

00:13:53.899 --> 00:13:56.919
way, I knew how it would devastate me. And I

00:13:56.919 --> 00:13:58.940
knew what insecurities it would attack in her,

00:13:59.059 --> 00:14:03.120
too. I didn't want to do that either. And so

00:14:03.120 --> 00:14:07.860
for the next three days, I am in hell. It is

00:14:07.860 --> 00:14:12.259
like God is just pressing on me so hard, I can't

00:14:12.259 --> 00:14:16.179
think about anything else. This is God at this

00:14:16.179 --> 00:14:17.899
point. Like, hey, you've opened this door. Now

00:14:17.899 --> 00:14:19.820
we're going through it, whether you want to or

00:14:19.820 --> 00:14:22.879
not. And I am in misery for like three days.

00:14:23.299 --> 00:14:25.679
So finally, I have a group of friends that we

00:14:25.679 --> 00:14:27.899
communicate with and things like that. They reached

00:14:27.899 --> 00:14:29.259
out. We're like, hey, we need to start getting

00:14:29.259 --> 00:14:30.840
more honest with each other. It just happened

00:14:30.840 --> 00:14:33.320
to be. Hey, we need a separate time where we're

00:14:33.320 --> 00:14:34.740
all talking to each other, being more honest.

00:14:34.799 --> 00:14:36.720
I think we're good friends, but we really need

00:14:36.720 --> 00:14:38.860
to get into real life things. So I was like,

00:14:38.919 --> 00:14:41.700
well, I'm going to tell them. So I told them.

00:14:42.680 --> 00:14:45.220
about what was going on and also that i need

00:14:45.220 --> 00:14:47.220
to tell shanae because i knew if i didn't tell

00:14:47.220 --> 00:14:49.100
them i didn't know if i was going to do it but

00:14:49.100 --> 00:14:52.240
this was going to hold me accountable so that

00:14:52.240 --> 00:14:54.179
held me accountable so then fast forward december

00:14:54.179 --> 00:14:59.779
6 2023 i will never forget that date and i'm

00:14:59.779 --> 00:15:02.320
coming home like oh my god i gotta tell this

00:15:02.320 --> 00:15:07.279
girl what's going on um the kids go to bed It

00:15:07.279 --> 00:15:09.059
was afterwards. You were sitting in the chair

00:15:09.059 --> 00:15:10.500
in the living room. I come out and sit down.

00:15:10.740 --> 00:15:12.259
I'm like, I'm about to have a really serious

00:15:12.259 --> 00:15:14.259
conversation with her. She looks like, world

00:15:14.259 --> 00:15:16.559
is wonderful. Kids finally went to bed. It's

00:15:16.559 --> 00:15:18.980
time to relax kind of thing. Let's kick it back.

00:15:20.100 --> 00:15:22.759
That's the mode she's going into. And so I begin

00:15:22.759 --> 00:15:28.980
to tell her. And that was really hard. I was

00:15:28.980 --> 00:15:32.159
shaking on the inside, vibrating. I don't think

00:15:32.159 --> 00:15:36.639
I truly knew. what was going to happen next yeah

00:15:36.639 --> 00:15:41.360
um but after going through it i definitely would

00:15:41.360 --> 00:15:43.539
have done it again and we'll get into some of

00:15:43.539 --> 00:15:47.580
that too but because i guess i'll say this real

00:15:47.580 --> 00:15:51.759
quick you don't realize how pornography emotionally

00:15:51.759 --> 00:15:57.840
locks you up emotionally and in a very like i

00:15:57.840 --> 00:16:01.000
was living but i wasn't really experiencing life

00:16:01.000 --> 00:16:04.919
i could feel some yeah But I could not. After

00:16:04.919 --> 00:16:10.960
I told her and got actually 100 % honest, I could

00:16:10.960 --> 00:16:14.279
feel. And I had these floods of emotions that

00:16:14.279 --> 00:16:17.840
I hadn't felt in years. And just life flooding

00:16:17.840 --> 00:16:20.279
to me where I'm in this. At that time, it was

00:16:20.279 --> 00:16:22.440
a very difficult situation. I'll let you tell

00:16:22.440 --> 00:16:27.340
your side of things. But I was feeling life again

00:16:27.340 --> 00:16:30.580
that I was in a really good place despite how

00:16:30.580 --> 00:16:33.220
terrible that current. couple days especially

00:16:33.220 --> 00:16:36.059
were yeah afterwards yeah yeah i was just like

00:16:36.059 --> 00:16:37.639
i would definitely do this again because i can

00:16:37.639 --> 00:16:41.720
i can feel yeah i'd get angry and i'm like i

00:16:41.720 --> 00:16:43.500
don't remember the last time i was angry yeah

00:16:43.500 --> 00:16:47.200
like i would get um i would get um just like

00:16:47.200 --> 00:16:49.580
these emotions of things a sadness and stuff

00:16:49.580 --> 00:16:51.740
and like i feel it's okay i can work through

00:16:51.740 --> 00:16:53.659
this and like actually process through it but

00:16:53.659 --> 00:16:56.399
it locks you up so much and i don't think people

00:16:56.399 --> 00:17:00.440
talk about that enough how You can quote unquote

00:17:00.440 --> 00:17:03.240
get away with it. Yeah. Or kind of push it to

00:17:03.240 --> 00:17:05.539
the side and still be living life. But you're

00:17:05.539 --> 00:17:07.680
not really living life. It almost makes you numb.

00:17:08.160 --> 00:17:11.799
Exactly. In a space. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Extremely.

00:17:11.799 --> 00:17:14.500
And I didn't realize how much had been stolen

00:17:14.500 --> 00:17:20.819
from me on that. And from our family. Yeah. So

00:17:20.819 --> 00:17:25.160
how did you respond, Shannae? Because let me caveat.

00:17:25.579 --> 00:17:30.549
You guys came to us. whenever I guess kind of

00:17:30.549 --> 00:17:34.230
after everything settled a bit. Yeah. And we

00:17:34.230 --> 00:17:36.369
even said, why did you guys come to us? And you

00:17:36.369 --> 00:17:38.549
were like, because this is, you guys are willing

00:17:38.549 --> 00:17:41.210
to have the conversations. Yeah. Cause nobody's

00:17:41.210 --> 00:17:43.049
talking about it. Nobody's talking about. Yeah.

00:17:43.170 --> 00:17:47.150
Yeah. It's like these, we have all these amazing

00:17:47.150 --> 00:17:49.150
marriages because you guys do. You have an amazing

00:17:49.150 --> 00:17:51.829
marriage. Very sweet, very sweet family, amazing

00:17:51.829 --> 00:17:55.509
family. But it is, it's those secret. sins per

00:17:55.509 --> 00:17:58.230
se or those things that get in there and they

00:17:58.230 --> 00:18:01.349
just lock into you and then it it takes you on

00:18:01.349 --> 00:18:03.990
a ride that you didn't need to be going on so

00:18:03.990 --> 00:18:09.430
how did you respond when he told you it was surprisingly

00:18:09.430 --> 00:18:13.859
calm at first because the rug is being pulled

00:18:13.859 --> 00:18:16.140
out from underneath yeah you know because he

00:18:16.140 --> 00:18:19.380
did he sat down in one of our kids chairs across

00:18:19.380 --> 00:18:21.519
from me and i'm thinking like what the heck are

00:18:21.519 --> 00:18:25.000
you doing yeah you know he was very quiet on

00:18:25.000 --> 00:18:27.140
the way home from church which was not normal

00:18:27.140 --> 00:18:30.119
yeah so i'm like he must just be really thinking

00:18:30.119 --> 00:18:33.099
about something and i like i think i had asked

00:18:33.099 --> 00:18:35.539
him like are you okay yeah he's like yeah i'm

00:18:35.539 --> 00:18:40.440
just thinking like okay That was an interaction

00:18:40.440 --> 00:18:43.779
we'd have a lot because he'd be kind of out in

00:18:43.779 --> 00:18:45.720
space a little bit sometimes and I'm like, are

00:18:45.720 --> 00:18:50.920
you okay? Yeah, I'm fine. And so he sits down

00:18:50.920 --> 00:18:55.660
across from me and then tells me and I am stunned

00:18:55.660 --> 00:19:00.839
to say the least. It was very eerily calm. And

00:19:00.839 --> 00:19:05.839
then immediately I'm like, for how long? How

00:19:05.839 --> 00:19:08.779
often are you doing this? yeah yeah like you've

00:19:08.779 --> 00:19:11.000
been doing this where have you been doing this

00:19:11.000 --> 00:19:14.220
yeah you know so all these questions start happening

00:19:14.220 --> 00:19:16.960
and then of course one of our kids comes out

00:19:16.960 --> 00:19:19.900
of their room so i just get up go to my room

00:19:19.900 --> 00:19:22.500
shut the door because i'm not about to let my

00:19:22.500 --> 00:19:29.119
kids see me because i know on the outside i i'm

00:19:29.119 --> 00:19:31.400
like calm but i can tell that there's a rage

00:19:31.400 --> 00:19:34.700
inside of me that's about to explode yeah so

00:19:35.279 --> 00:19:38.759
I excuse myself and he deals with our kid, gets

00:19:38.759 --> 00:19:44.579
him back to bed. And it's not like good, but

00:19:44.579 --> 00:19:47.059
I came out of the room and went to him and started

00:19:47.059 --> 00:19:50.700
punching him. Cause I was so angry. Yeah. Yeah.

00:19:51.059 --> 00:19:55.660
Yeah. And he just sat there and took it. And

00:19:55.660 --> 00:19:58.400
I was, I'm like, you're going to tell me everything

00:19:58.400 --> 00:19:59.819
and you're going to tell me everything right

00:19:59.819 --> 00:20:04.089
now. Yeah. Yeah. and so he starts telling me

00:20:04.089 --> 00:20:06.430
i'm like how long has this been going on and

00:20:06.430 --> 00:20:09.029
at that time he said like well like three or

00:20:09.029 --> 00:20:14.130
four years and so immediately i'm like okay well

00:20:14.130 --> 00:20:16.390
our son is we're seven years into marriage at

00:20:16.390 --> 00:20:19.509
this point right and so i'm like thinking like

00:20:19.509 --> 00:20:22.309
okay well our son is this old so oh so you started

00:20:22.309 --> 00:20:25.430
doing this after i had a baby and my body's not

00:20:25.430 --> 00:20:33.039
the same dang yeah So then, of course, as a woman,

00:20:33.119 --> 00:20:35.799
my brain is just like, yeah, you're not good

00:20:35.799 --> 00:20:38.079
enough. Your body sucks after you had a kid.

00:20:38.119 --> 00:20:41.099
And now you have had two kids and there's another

00:20:41.099 --> 00:20:43.200
one on the way. So he's really not attracted

00:20:43.200 --> 00:20:47.220
to you. Yeah. And that wasn't the truth, actually.

00:20:47.380 --> 00:20:49.339
Yeah. That wasn't the truth. It wasn't the whole

00:20:49.339 --> 00:20:51.339
truth. And I hadn't said everything yet. And

00:20:51.339 --> 00:20:55.819
it's so funny how when you lie and hide something

00:20:55.819 --> 00:21:00.849
for so long, you can't get it. out it's like

00:21:00.849 --> 00:21:05.349
i couldn't and so i you know she's at that moment

00:21:05.349 --> 00:21:07.390
currently hitting me asking me how i was like

00:21:07.390 --> 00:21:09.789
four years you know like i yeah it was you panicked

00:21:09.789 --> 00:21:11.970
yeah i panicked and like i'm trying to i was

00:21:11.970 --> 00:21:13.750
like for some reason in my mind that felt like

00:21:13.750 --> 00:21:16.349
it was yeah i was still trying to hide yeah i

00:21:16.349 --> 00:21:20.890
still was a hundred percent and it took it took

00:21:20.890 --> 00:21:23.710
time to get to a hundred percent and it took

00:21:23.710 --> 00:21:27.230
pushing from her like it took me physically like

00:21:27.230 --> 00:21:30.960
give me your phone And so I start reading through.

00:21:31.039 --> 00:21:34.460
This was like the next day. I start reading through

00:21:34.460 --> 00:21:37.680
the text messages that he sent to his group of

00:21:37.680 --> 00:21:41.019
friends. And I find out that, no, it's been our

00:21:41.019 --> 00:21:44.099
entire marriage, really. And so then I'm like,

00:21:44.700 --> 00:21:47.200
okay, so not only did you lie to me for this

00:21:47.200 --> 00:21:49.059
long, but then when you told me the truth, you

00:21:49.059 --> 00:21:53.380
still lied. I made it much, much worse. Wisdom,

00:21:53.380 --> 00:21:56.359
if you do this with your spouse. prepare yourself.

00:21:56.440 --> 00:21:58.380
I should have wrote it out. I considered doing

00:21:58.380 --> 00:22:01.619
that and I should have everything a hundred percent.

00:22:01.720 --> 00:22:03.920
It's a good idea. Yeah. And finally we ended

00:22:03.920 --> 00:22:06.160
up, I don't know if we should tell the whole

00:22:06.160 --> 00:22:07.880
story cause I think some of the after stuff is

00:22:07.880 --> 00:22:09.799
really, really, really good from you, especially

00:22:09.799 --> 00:22:12.900
on this. But we, we ended up getting over the

00:22:12.900 --> 00:22:15.079
course of a couple of days and yeah, it was the

00:22:15.079 --> 00:22:17.779
next day. Finally, a hundred percent everything

00:22:17.779 --> 00:22:21.480
on the table where, how, how often from the age

00:22:21.480 --> 00:22:24.690
I was 12. Actually, all the way up. Had a year

00:22:24.690 --> 00:22:27.809
in the school ministry where I didn't. Got back

00:22:27.809 --> 00:22:30.410
to it. Told somebody about it to try to help.

00:22:30.490 --> 00:22:32.930
They were kind of just like, ew, gross. Please

00:22:32.930 --> 00:22:36.509
tell me you're done. Had a pretty bad reaction.

00:22:38.029 --> 00:22:40.450
So shame. You have shame on top of all of that.

00:22:40.529 --> 00:22:44.470
That just added on to fear. There were other

00:22:44.470 --> 00:22:47.329
people in my life who had known, even when I

00:22:47.329 --> 00:22:50.509
was younger, never talked to me about it. Just

00:22:50.509 --> 00:22:53.119
kind of like... almost brushed it aside like

00:22:53.119 --> 00:22:55.740
we're not going to talk about it yeah um and

00:22:55.740 --> 00:22:59.099
so i think that added to the fear of telling

00:22:59.099 --> 00:23:02.319
my wife especially yeah because of just that

00:23:02.319 --> 00:23:06.339
the reactions um and then i knew it was going

00:23:06.339 --> 00:23:10.960
to really hurt that identity of hers but it was

00:23:10.960 --> 00:23:13.980
still the right thing to do and it was the only

00:23:13.980 --> 00:23:19.640
thing that has set me free yeah wow the i tried

00:23:19.640 --> 00:23:23.660
everything I could think. Yeah. It was the only

00:23:23.660 --> 00:23:28.240
way to do it. So if you're in a marriage and

00:23:28.240 --> 00:23:32.220
you struggle with this, get some accountability

00:23:32.220 --> 00:23:36.480
with some other guys around you. Hopefully someone

00:23:36.480 --> 00:23:38.279
else who's been through it, maybe, if you can

00:23:38.279 --> 00:23:40.619
find one, right? Because you're going to want

00:23:40.619 --> 00:23:43.599
your spouse to talk to their spouse. And then

00:23:43.599 --> 00:23:47.180
tell your wife. Yeah. And tell her 100 % all

00:23:47.180 --> 00:23:51.569
of it, everything you can think of. Yeah. I mean,

00:23:51.589 --> 00:23:53.829
I was asked, I'm like, well, what, like what

00:23:53.829 --> 00:23:56.170
sites are you going to? I think I spent like

00:23:56.170 --> 00:23:59.069
30 minutes blocking websites on his phone, you

00:23:59.069 --> 00:24:01.549
know? Cause I'm like, you're going to tell me

00:24:01.549 --> 00:24:03.970
everything. Yeah. And if I find out that you

00:24:03.970 --> 00:24:05.890
lied about something again, we're really going

00:24:05.890 --> 00:24:10.630
to have a problem. Yeah. Right. But yeah, be,

00:24:10.750 --> 00:24:14.130
be Israel. as you were in the car when we were

00:24:14.130 --> 00:24:17.009
on the way over here. Tell them what was happening

00:24:17.009 --> 00:24:19.910
during those couple days for you after I told

00:24:19.910 --> 00:24:23.549
you I go to work the next day. We can mark a

00:24:23.549 --> 00:24:26.490
little box that says this is explicit. So if

00:24:26.490 --> 00:24:30.470
you so choose. Yeah, because I more than one

00:24:30.470 --> 00:24:34.210
time, and your sister included, cuss in here.

00:24:34.250 --> 00:24:36.549
It's real. You've got to be real. It is. And

00:24:36.549 --> 00:24:38.990
God is not scared of that. He's not scared of

00:24:38.990 --> 00:24:41.890
us being real. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, so

00:24:41.890 --> 00:24:44.890
he tells me and I'm like, okay, we're those people.

00:24:44.950 --> 00:24:47.190
Like, I'll just tell everybody we sleep naked.

00:24:47.289 --> 00:24:51.130
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And I'm like, it's late at

00:24:51.130 --> 00:24:54.390
night. I'm exhausted. But then I'm like, well,

00:24:54.490 --> 00:24:57.230
my whole world just blew up in my face. So what

00:24:57.230 --> 00:24:59.369
am I going to do? Go to sleep now? Right. But

00:24:59.369 --> 00:25:04.269
I remember being like, I am sleeping in close

00:25:04.269 --> 00:25:06.430
tonight. You will not see me naked. You will

00:25:06.430 --> 00:25:08.730
not touch me. You will not kiss me. stay away

00:25:08.730 --> 00:25:12.990
from me right right and i don't i think i maybe

00:25:12.990 --> 00:25:16.609
got an hour of sleep that night because my mind

00:25:16.609 --> 00:25:20.990
is just everywhere i'm like yeah i didn't i didn't

00:25:20.990 --> 00:25:22.609
want to be in the bed with him so i went to the

00:25:22.609 --> 00:25:25.890
couch and then he ends up coming out and he's

00:25:25.890 --> 00:25:29.549
trying to talk to me and i'm like i just don't

00:25:29.549 --> 00:25:32.730
understand i'm just crying Yeah. Balling. And

00:25:32.730 --> 00:25:35.410
I'm thinking about my kids. Like I am pregnant

00:25:35.410 --> 00:25:38.490
at the time. Right. You know. Right. So it's

00:25:38.490 --> 00:25:39.890
just all of this. Drop a bomb plus you being

00:25:39.890 --> 00:25:44.650
hormonal. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. I'm like sitting

00:25:44.650 --> 00:25:46.809
there thinking like, are you freaking kidding

00:25:46.809 --> 00:25:49.450
me? Right. Like we have a third kid on the way.

00:25:49.509 --> 00:25:55.130
Yeah. And I'm dealing with this now. And he ends

00:25:55.130 --> 00:25:58.230
up like he calls into work the next day because

00:25:58.230 --> 00:26:00.849
I was like, I'm. I'm not going to be capable

00:26:00.849 --> 00:26:03.930
of taking care of my children. Yeah. But also

00:26:03.930 --> 00:26:05.990
like, what am I going to do? Call my mother -in

00:26:05.990 --> 00:26:07.430
-law and be like, Hey, can you come watch my

00:26:07.430 --> 00:26:09.710
kids today? Because my life's falling apart,

00:26:09.769 --> 00:26:15.809
but I can't tell you why, you know? And so the

00:26:15.809 --> 00:26:19.269
next morning I have, you know, I have my two

00:26:19.269 --> 00:26:21.210
sister -in -laws and then a really great friend,

00:26:21.250 --> 00:26:24.609
basically I consider her family. And so I text

00:26:24.609 --> 00:26:27.230
all three of them and I was like, well, this

00:26:27.230 --> 00:26:29.170
is what Levi told me last night and I don't know

00:26:29.170 --> 00:26:34.769
what to do. And immediately my friend, she calls

00:26:34.769 --> 00:26:38.029
me and she was like, hey, first of all, I want

00:26:38.029 --> 00:26:41.549
you to know this is not your fault. And I'm just

00:26:41.549 --> 00:26:44.609
like, can't comprehend that because I'm thinking

00:26:44.609 --> 00:26:49.250
it has to be my fault. Why else would he go and

00:26:49.250 --> 00:26:52.069
look at other women? It has to be my fault. And

00:26:52.069 --> 00:26:56.180
she's like, it is not your fault. So she's talking

00:26:56.180 --> 00:26:59.599
me through this and all three of them are like,

00:26:59.680 --> 00:27:03.859
you need to talk to Tori. Yeah. And I'm like,

00:27:03.920 --> 00:27:06.619
okay, okay. So I get off the phone with my friend.

00:27:07.140 --> 00:27:11.160
I text Tori. I'm like, can we talk? Yeah. And

00:27:11.160 --> 00:27:14.480
she's like, yeah, call me. So I call her and

00:27:14.480 --> 00:27:16.680
right away she's like, this is not your fault.

00:27:17.279 --> 00:27:20.279
She's like, and if I'm being honest, it actually

00:27:20.279 --> 00:27:24.829
has nothing to do with you. Yeah. Again, I'm

00:27:24.829 --> 00:27:28.150
like, it has to do something with me. I just

00:27:28.150 --> 00:27:32.529
can't comprehend that at all. But she's like,

00:27:32.690 --> 00:27:35.650
listen, you got to let yourself feel everything.

00:27:36.250 --> 00:27:39.130
And we're going to talk this through and we're

00:27:39.130 --> 00:27:41.690
going to figure out some next steps and what

00:27:41.690 --> 00:27:46.309
you need to do. So, I mean, I was on the phone

00:27:46.309 --> 00:27:50.880
with her for a while and just telling her. this

00:27:50.880 --> 00:27:53.539
is what's been happening you know i asked him

00:27:53.539 --> 00:27:56.220
all the questions and she was like and that's

00:27:56.220 --> 00:27:58.400
the thing if you want answers to the questions

00:27:58.400 --> 00:28:01.059
ask them but sometimes there's questions that

00:28:01.059 --> 00:28:03.039
you're like i don't need to ask that and i don't

00:28:03.039 --> 00:28:05.859
want the answer yeah and that's fine yeah just

00:28:05.859 --> 00:28:07.819
figure out like what do you need to know what

00:28:07.819 --> 00:28:12.839
do you not need to know and um so then she's

00:28:12.839 --> 00:28:17.079
like you do you know like how old he was when

00:28:17.079 --> 00:28:20.839
he was first exposed to this i'm like well yeah

00:28:20.839 --> 00:28:23.799
12 like we had we had had this conversation before

00:28:23.799 --> 00:28:26.819
even when we were dating we talked about yeah

00:28:26.819 --> 00:28:31.559
porn yeah and so that's another thing i'm like

00:28:31.559 --> 00:28:35.160
i lied we talked about this yeah yeah so that

00:28:35.160 --> 00:28:36.920
was another thing where she's like so he's been

00:28:36.920 --> 00:28:40.880
lying specifically lying for a while yeah and

00:28:40.880 --> 00:28:45.059
that was true yeah i'm like we specifically when

00:28:45.059 --> 00:28:47.630
we started dating i was like listen I'm going

00:28:47.630 --> 00:28:50.109
to be completely honest about my past, the things

00:28:50.109 --> 00:28:53.410
I've done. I slept around in college. And if

00:28:53.410 --> 00:28:55.250
you can't handle that, then you're not the person

00:28:55.250 --> 00:28:58.730
for me. I was exposed to porn when I was in third

00:28:58.730 --> 00:29:03.869
grade. So I had the perspective of, what's it

00:29:03.869 --> 00:29:07.089
like to have a porn addiction? And I was very

00:29:07.089 --> 00:29:09.150
honest about everything with him. And then I

00:29:09.150 --> 00:29:12.329
look back and go, how could you have lied to

00:29:12.329 --> 00:29:16.890
me then when I was so honest with you? So that

00:29:16.890 --> 00:29:19.950
was something we talked about. She's like, Tori's

00:29:19.950 --> 00:29:23.009
like, okay, so what you might need to do is look

00:29:23.009 --> 00:29:25.289
at him like he is still that 12 year old boy.

00:29:25.410 --> 00:29:28.210
Yeah. Getting exposed to something and you know

00:29:28.210 --> 00:29:30.390
what it's like to be exposed to that. Right.

00:29:30.430 --> 00:29:34.549
Yeah. And that really helped shift my mindset

00:29:34.549 --> 00:29:38.670
because I was, I was really struggling when he

00:29:38.670 --> 00:29:41.230
told me with like, if we didn't have kids, you

00:29:41.230 --> 00:29:45.029
would not be in my house. And that was a very

00:29:45.029 --> 00:29:47.950
scary thought for me. Yeah. Because I'm like,

00:29:47.990 --> 00:29:53.069
this is a person that I love. Yeah. Like I said,

00:29:53.089 --> 00:29:57.269
I do to you and we have three kids and like,

00:29:57.289 --> 00:30:01.390
what the heck? Right. Yeah. And I think, um,

00:30:01.390 --> 00:30:07.230
you don't just say things. She very well meant

00:30:07.230 --> 00:30:09.809
that when she told me and I knew she meant it.

00:30:09.849 --> 00:30:12.089
Yeah. And I remember being at, cause Thursday

00:30:12.089 --> 00:30:14.819
I was off. Friday, I went to work, and I remember

00:30:14.819 --> 00:30:20.099
being at work like, I don't know. I don't know

00:30:20.099 --> 00:30:25.420
if I have a marriage. I actually don't know.

00:30:25.460 --> 00:30:28.839
Not like, oh, it might be this extreme. It was.

00:30:29.920 --> 00:30:36.440
And even in that, I would do it again because

00:30:36.440 --> 00:30:39.259
of the freedom that came to me. So it's funny.

00:30:39.339 --> 00:30:42.690
I'm experiencing extreme freedom. And she's experiencing

00:30:42.690 --> 00:30:46.089
now having to deal with all the crap. Yeah. In

00:30:46.089 --> 00:30:49.549
a way. Right. So that. Yeah. But I'm like looking

00:30:49.549 --> 00:30:53.369
at my kids going, if I kick their dad out of

00:30:53.369 --> 00:30:56.390
this house, I'm going to have to explain to my

00:30:56.390 --> 00:30:58.569
very young children why their dad's not here.

00:30:58.670 --> 00:31:03.250
Very inquisitive. Yes. Yes. Extremely. Like our

00:31:03.250 --> 00:31:07.529
oldest son, he would not have let it go at the

00:31:07.529 --> 00:31:10.920
time. Yeah. And I don't, I. just kept being like,

00:31:11.000 --> 00:31:13.339
I don't know what I'd say to them. So I can't

00:31:13.339 --> 00:31:15.940
kick him out. He knew something was going on

00:31:15.940 --> 00:31:20.079
and he asked me and I told him, I said, dad lied

00:31:20.079 --> 00:31:23.980
to your mom and hurt your mom. Yeah. And we're

00:31:23.980 --> 00:31:25.640
working through that. You know, I've told her

00:31:25.640 --> 00:31:27.619
sorry and she's forgiven me, but we're working

00:31:27.619 --> 00:31:30.880
through it. And I remember he's just like. why

00:31:30.880 --> 00:31:33.960
would you lie to mom? I'm like, I know I shouldn't

00:31:33.960 --> 00:31:36.039
have done that. And so then even later on, a

00:31:36.039 --> 00:31:37.740
couple of weeks later, he was like, dad, are

00:31:37.740 --> 00:31:41.759
you going to lie to mom again? Nobody, but being

00:31:41.759 --> 00:31:44.480
that honest with him in the way that I think

00:31:44.480 --> 00:31:46.160
he could understand, I wasn't trying to hide

00:31:46.160 --> 00:31:48.579
anything per se in the way that he could understand.

00:31:48.660 --> 00:31:52.519
Cause at the time he was just newly five. Yeah.

00:31:53.019 --> 00:31:57.309
And so, um, was good. was really good and valuable

00:31:57.309 --> 00:31:59.789
absolutely um and i still think we'll prove valuable

00:31:59.789 --> 00:32:03.250
later on with life and stuff like that we can

00:32:03.250 --> 00:32:05.490
be honest with each other in front of them and

00:32:05.490 --> 00:32:07.549
they see us work through things i think that's

00:32:07.549 --> 00:32:09.029
going to be valuable for them in the future with

00:32:09.029 --> 00:32:11.970
a relationship but yeah i think that that's a

00:32:11.970 --> 00:32:14.069
really good point let me interject just for a

00:32:14.069 --> 00:32:16.150
second i think that's a really good point because

00:32:16.150 --> 00:32:20.000
i know a lot of times um We encounter different

00:32:20.000 --> 00:32:22.000
ones that are like, I don't want to have a conversation

00:32:22.000 --> 00:32:24.599
with my children about what's going on in my

00:32:24.599 --> 00:32:27.799
marriage. Right. Like you have the extremes almost.

00:32:27.859 --> 00:32:29.519
You have the people that are arguing in front

00:32:29.519 --> 00:32:30.779
of their children and then you have the other

00:32:30.779 --> 00:32:32.839
ones that are arguing behind closed doors. But

00:32:32.839 --> 00:32:36.339
then it's like not like the kids don't know anything.

00:32:36.559 --> 00:32:39.220
I was raised in that house to where it's like

00:32:39.220 --> 00:32:41.880
all of a sudden they're divorced and you're going.

00:32:42.730 --> 00:32:46.069
You have no idea what's going on. And so for

00:32:46.069 --> 00:32:49.009
the fact that I want to commend you guys for

00:32:49.009 --> 00:32:52.109
being honest the best way that you could with

00:32:52.109 --> 00:32:56.250
as much information as they can absorb. Because

00:32:56.250 --> 00:32:59.549
I believe in those kind of moments. We were actually

00:32:59.549 --> 00:33:02.490
just talking about this last night. Like, Gabri,

00:33:02.589 --> 00:33:06.539
when we got married, Gabri was seven. And our

00:33:06.539 --> 00:33:10.180
first three years were really, really hard. It's

00:33:10.180 --> 00:33:12.559
just you're not melding just two people together.

00:33:12.619 --> 00:33:17.700
You have three. And then it's like we would have

00:33:17.700 --> 00:33:19.680
the arguments. We would have the conversations,

00:33:19.819 --> 00:33:23.039
the hard things. But what it teaches your children

00:33:23.039 --> 00:33:25.339
over the time being is, number one, they can

00:33:25.339 --> 00:33:27.039
come to mom and dad. They can have a conversation

00:33:27.039 --> 00:33:29.200
with you. They can have those hard conversations.

00:33:29.619 --> 00:33:32.349
Listen, we struggled. Listen, this is what we

00:33:32.349 --> 00:33:34.970
dealt with because one day this will be a conversation.

00:33:35.190 --> 00:33:36.710
I have no doubt in my mind that you guys will

00:33:36.710 --> 00:33:39.670
be honest with your children. And when they hear

00:33:39.670 --> 00:33:42.250
that you are honest and mom and dad are not perfect,

00:33:42.329 --> 00:33:47.230
but they have a God that comes in and helps guide

00:33:47.230 --> 00:33:50.759
you and rescue you through it. That's where they

00:33:50.759 --> 00:33:53.240
get to start learning and leaning into that space.

00:33:53.440 --> 00:33:56.460
You know what I mean? So I would say even for

00:33:56.460 --> 00:33:59.339
the listeners that are in this space with y 'all

00:33:59.339 --> 00:34:04.400
or where you guys were, to give as much, just

00:34:04.400 --> 00:34:07.180
be honest. Give as much information as they can,

00:34:07.299 --> 00:34:11.239
you know, again. When they're five, that's completely

00:34:11.239 --> 00:34:14.539
different. Seven, completely different. But again,

00:34:14.820 --> 00:34:18.179
you know. For the most part, parents know their

00:34:18.179 --> 00:34:21.219
kids and have a really good idea of what level

00:34:21.219 --> 00:34:24.880
of explanation they can get. Absolutely. You

00:34:24.880 --> 00:34:28.219
know, and so it is. You look at your five -year

00:34:28.219 --> 00:34:32.079
-old, you're, you know, probably Aspen was too

00:34:32.079 --> 00:34:35.530
young. And she wasn't even two yet. She was about

00:34:35.530 --> 00:34:38.349
to be two. I don't think she knew anything was

00:34:38.349 --> 00:34:41.409
going on. But it is. It's like even if there

00:34:41.409 --> 00:34:44.230
was a question like, oh, hey, I know something's

00:34:44.230 --> 00:34:48.670
wrong. Not really. But you do. You look at that

00:34:48.670 --> 00:34:52.210
child and you say, hey, here's what's going on.

00:34:52.409 --> 00:34:56.570
Or a 10 -year -old. If Sebastian were to look

00:34:56.570 --> 00:34:58.230
at us and be like, I know something's wrong.

00:34:58.289 --> 00:35:01.610
What's wrong? And then have the conversation

00:35:01.610 --> 00:35:04.610
as best as possible because you guys are breaking

00:35:04.610 --> 00:35:07.469
things, right? Like, you're breaking things.

00:35:08.150 --> 00:35:11.469
There's, like, I'm hearing both of you, both

00:35:11.469 --> 00:35:15.150
of you dealing with porn somewhere along the

00:35:15.150 --> 00:35:18.110
way. Okay, well, that means the enemy is gunning,

00:35:18.110 --> 00:35:23.449
right? He plays dirty. I think we forget sometimes

00:35:23.449 --> 00:35:25.949
that porn isn't just a guy thing. It's a girl

00:35:25.949 --> 00:35:28.329
thing, too. Absolutely, we can get caught up

00:35:28.329 --> 00:35:31.010
with it. You've got the books that are the romance

00:35:31.010 --> 00:35:35.449
novels. It's porn. I'm just going to call it

00:35:35.449 --> 00:35:38.369
like it is. You know what I'm saying? The soap

00:35:38.369 --> 00:35:41.730
operas, it's soft, soft porn. I'm doing quotation

00:35:41.730 --> 00:35:45.190
marks. But it's a doorway. It's a doorway for

00:35:45.190 --> 00:35:47.269
the enemy to go, oh, we're just going to hook

00:35:47.269 --> 00:35:48.829
you a little bit more and a little bit more.

00:35:49.440 --> 00:35:54.360
And then it objectifies us as women, men. This

00:35:54.360 --> 00:35:56.139
is how it's supposed to look. This is how it's

00:35:56.139 --> 00:35:58.940
supposed to appear, right? This is how we're

00:35:58.940 --> 00:36:00.840
supposed to be responding. This is how you're,

00:36:00.900 --> 00:36:04.199
it just, it muddies it and it gets it raw and

00:36:04.199 --> 00:36:08.500
just. gross right but what it does is when we're

00:36:08.500 --> 00:36:10.699
honest with our children when we're honest with

00:36:10.699 --> 00:36:12.219
our friends because i know that you guys have

00:36:12.219 --> 00:36:15.360
been honest with friends and family and the first

00:36:15.360 --> 00:36:17.099
thing you said levi when you guys came into the

00:36:17.099 --> 00:36:20.619
house is this has unlocked spaces and you have

00:36:20.619 --> 00:36:23.179
created a safe place for other people to be real

00:36:23.179 --> 00:36:25.940
about things too whether it's pornography or

00:36:25.940 --> 00:36:28.360
whether it's something else that they're just

00:36:28.360 --> 00:36:33.139
can't get rid of right and your children are

00:36:33.139 --> 00:36:35.829
going to benefit from that because If and when

00:36:35.829 --> 00:36:38.530
the enemy comes at them, whether it's through

00:36:38.530 --> 00:36:41.269
this avenue or something else, they now know

00:36:41.269 --> 00:36:44.250
mom and dad did this. And mom and dad know the

00:36:44.250 --> 00:36:46.170
answers and they're going to help me get through

00:36:46.170 --> 00:36:52.349
it. Right. Right. Yeah. And I think for us, there's

00:36:52.349 --> 00:36:55.949
several things I could say, actually. But I definitely

00:36:55.949 --> 00:36:58.869
wanted more from you on things you went through.

00:36:59.590 --> 00:37:03.519
But like me being. 100 honest wasn't just for

00:37:03.519 --> 00:37:07.219
that moment right it was afterwards too and just

00:37:07.219 --> 00:37:12.360
she began to see a new person that she was married

00:37:12.360 --> 00:37:15.699
to yeah so yes i told her and devastated her

00:37:15.699 --> 00:37:18.920
blew up her world really but because it is an

00:37:18.920 --> 00:37:21.659
affair i don't care what people say or think

00:37:21.659 --> 00:37:24.599
or how they want to make light it is an affair

00:37:24.599 --> 00:37:28.539
yeah against my wife it was you know cheating

00:37:28.539 --> 00:37:31.659
whatever you want to say it's nothing lighter

00:37:31.659 --> 00:37:36.599
than that it is that right and so i was a hundred

00:37:36.599 --> 00:37:39.800
percent in that everything she'd asked me how

00:37:39.800 --> 00:37:42.300
i was and i was like well i'm feeling this right

00:37:42.300 --> 00:37:43.900
now and you know this thing over there and she

00:37:43.900 --> 00:37:48.010
never ever got those types of answers from me

00:37:48.010 --> 00:37:51.730
before wow i couldn't yeah i couldn't process

00:37:51.730 --> 00:37:55.510
fully my emotions our deepest conversations were

00:37:55.510 --> 00:37:59.130
still mostly surface level and so suddenly she's

00:37:59.130 --> 00:38:02.449
like running into this new person wow that she's

00:38:02.449 --> 00:38:05.789
married to and like like valuing it so much while

00:38:05.789 --> 00:38:08.050
at the same time i think feeling some like real

00:38:08.050 --> 00:38:12.690
deep hurt and anger and well just also like Before,

00:38:13.070 --> 00:38:15.909
I'm like, okay, we have a financial issue, and

00:38:15.909 --> 00:38:17.750
I'm like, are we going to be okay? And he's like,

00:38:17.849 --> 00:38:20.630
yeah, we're going to be fine. To now, I'm asking

00:38:20.630 --> 00:38:22.769
him, are we going to be okay? Are we going to

00:38:22.769 --> 00:38:24.849
make it to payday? And he's like, I don't know.

00:38:25.889 --> 00:38:27.610
I'm like, what do you mean you don't know? You

00:38:27.610 --> 00:38:29.630
don't have an answer for me? What am I supposed

00:38:29.630 --> 00:38:31.869
to do with that? I want that answer back there.

00:38:32.869 --> 00:38:35.090
I'm like, what do you mean you don't know? You're

00:38:35.090 --> 00:38:36.849
supposed to know everything. I felt like I was

00:38:36.849 --> 00:38:38.630
supposed to always have the answer. I couldn't

00:38:38.630 --> 00:38:42.250
show wrong. I couldn't show that. I had an image

00:38:42.250 --> 00:38:45.469
to uphold with her and everyone else. I felt

00:38:45.469 --> 00:38:48.090
like I had an image of who I needed to be. And

00:38:48.090 --> 00:38:50.650
I tricked myself into thinking I'm trying to

00:38:50.650 --> 00:38:54.670
live up to what God is calling me to. When in

00:38:54.670 --> 00:38:57.630
reality, you're portraying a mirage of someone

00:38:57.630 --> 00:38:59.809
you're not actually. Wow, that's good, Levi.

00:39:00.050 --> 00:39:02.550
And, you know, it was deception. It was deception.

00:39:02.710 --> 00:39:05.030
I was 100 % deceived. So then I started getting

00:39:05.030 --> 00:39:09.869
real. It's so random. I don't know if I should

00:39:09.869 --> 00:39:13.849
bring it up, but it's so random. I never cussed

00:39:13.849 --> 00:39:16.610
before, ever. I would make her feel almost ashamed

00:39:16.610 --> 00:39:19.230
of herself if she said a cuss word. We don't

00:39:19.230 --> 00:39:21.289
talk about that. We don't talk like that, babe.

00:39:21.289 --> 00:39:23.849
Or if I listen to a certain song in the car that

00:39:23.849 --> 00:39:27.389
had a cuss word, he's like, change it. I'm like,

00:39:27.489 --> 00:39:31.150
okay. Obviously, you don't want certain things

00:39:31.150 --> 00:39:33.730
around your kids or whatever, but it would just...

00:39:33.730 --> 00:39:37.900
It'd be just me and him. Right. Yeah. sorry i

00:39:37.900 --> 00:39:43.500
cuss now because it's just real life like yes

00:39:43.500 --> 00:39:47.300
i'm living real life i have real emotions and

00:39:47.300 --> 00:39:50.719
like it was just like ah that image thing that

00:39:50.719 --> 00:39:55.300
religion religiosity thing of like it just went

00:39:55.300 --> 00:39:58.659
away completely i remember like two weeks after

00:39:58.659 --> 00:40:01.340
this happened my relationship with god was like

00:40:01.340 --> 00:40:03.280
i just didn't even have i don't know i don't

00:40:03.280 --> 00:40:05.199
know where it is i'm not reading my bible currently

00:40:05.199 --> 00:40:07.619
i'm not praying i'm just talking and living and

00:40:07.619 --> 00:40:09.320
experiencing everything i can't even keep track

00:40:09.320 --> 00:40:12.440
of everything right now i'm feeling so much right

00:40:12.440 --> 00:40:14.840
and just this flood of stuff and so i remember

00:40:14.840 --> 00:40:16.519
christy asked me like so how's your relationship

00:40:16.519 --> 00:40:19.619
with god going and i was like i have no idea

00:40:20.710 --> 00:40:23.070
you know and i that was so real i was just so

00:40:23.070 --> 00:40:26.969
raw and real like i haven't gotten there yet

00:40:26.969 --> 00:40:30.789
like i mean and that was definitely never gonna

00:40:30.789 --> 00:40:34.510
be a levi answer before this yeah i there was

00:40:34.510 --> 00:40:38.309
there is definitely a before and after for my

00:40:38.309 --> 00:40:41.230
life and our marriage i would say too yeah um

00:40:41.230 --> 00:40:43.869
and then we started seeing other couples we as

00:40:43.869 --> 00:40:47.039
we're going through this telling people what's

00:40:47.039 --> 00:40:48.739
happening with us and stuff like that and where

00:40:48.739 --> 00:40:50.860
we're at and like they start having their own

00:40:50.860 --> 00:40:54.659
conversations well lo and behold right yeah and

00:40:54.659 --> 00:40:57.519
so honesty starts coming to the forefront in

00:40:57.519 --> 00:41:00.280
these other relationships not necessarily the

00:41:00.280 --> 00:41:03.099
same thing but similar things or yeah or just

00:41:03.099 --> 00:41:06.400
like hey you got to deal with this and nobody's

00:41:06.400 --> 00:41:08.780
being honest kind of stuff that these other couples

00:41:08.780 --> 00:41:11.650
were dealing with and so they started like, they're

00:41:11.650 --> 00:41:13.590
having these great experiences coming to me like,

00:41:13.650 --> 00:41:15.610
Hey man, thank you. And I'm like, thank me for

00:41:15.610 --> 00:41:19.809
what? You know, like I am literally the lowest

00:41:19.809 --> 00:41:22.849
person in the room right now. Do you know what

00:41:22.849 --> 00:41:26.929
I did to my wife? Yeah. Like, and I have agreed

00:41:26.929 --> 00:41:30.329
with the honesty of who I actually am for once

00:41:30.329 --> 00:41:33.449
in my life. And it's ugly. Yeah. And I feel amazing,

00:41:33.750 --> 00:41:40.840
but so humbled to just like, and, That's such

00:41:40.840 --> 00:41:43.780
a good place to be. That's such a good place

00:41:43.780 --> 00:41:46.300
to be of just humility and just who are you actually.

00:41:46.699 --> 00:41:50.199
Yeah. Well, and that's something. My brother

00:41:50.199 --> 00:41:52.219
Derek would be like, Levi, just tell me how you

00:41:52.219 --> 00:41:55.940
really feel. Right. Just tell me. Yeah. This

00:41:55.940 --> 00:41:59.239
is before. Yeah, before. People would get so

00:41:59.239 --> 00:42:01.800
frustrated because it's like, you give me the

00:42:01.800 --> 00:42:03.820
perfect answers, but tell me what you're actually

00:42:03.820 --> 00:42:06.719
thinking. Yeah. But he couldn't. Yeah. He was

00:42:06.719 --> 00:42:09.059
incapable. He was just in such a fog that he

00:42:09.059 --> 00:42:11.059
didn't even know. That's crazy. Didn't know.

00:42:11.260 --> 00:42:15.079
Yeah. I didn't know. So it's just a thing now.

00:42:15.260 --> 00:42:18.420
At first, for those first few months, especially,

00:42:18.420 --> 00:42:19.820
my friends would look at me and be like, I'm

00:42:19.820 --> 00:42:22.739
proud of you for using that cuss word. That's

00:42:22.739 --> 00:42:25.940
awesome. That's awesome. But it was actually

00:42:25.940 --> 00:42:29.360
freedom for me. Yeah. Because it was real. I

00:42:29.360 --> 00:42:37.650
was being 100%. And so I think. Telling more

00:42:37.650 --> 00:42:40.070
from your perspective of how you kind of were

00:42:40.070 --> 00:42:44.929
starting to deal with things. Specifically when

00:42:44.929 --> 00:42:47.909
I came home Friday from work. Well, okay. So

00:42:47.909 --> 00:42:50.369
to get to that point, when I had been on the

00:42:50.369 --> 00:42:53.530
phone with Tori, I remember saying, I just flat

00:42:53.530 --> 00:42:56.369
out go, I didn't sign up for this. She goes,

00:42:56.429 --> 00:42:59.369
well, you did. Yeah, you did. When you said I

00:42:59.369 --> 00:43:01.829
do. Yep. And it hit me like a ton of bricks.

00:43:01.909 --> 00:43:05.679
And I said, well, shit, I did. Yep. yep you're

00:43:05.679 --> 00:43:08.219
you're right i did sign up for this but didn't

00:43:08.219 --> 00:43:12.579
expect it yeah and she was like listen if you

00:43:12.579 --> 00:43:14.460
need a break if you need to leave the house if

00:43:14.460 --> 00:43:16.639
you need him to leave the house do whatever you

00:43:16.639 --> 00:43:20.280
need to do yeah like you are allowed to feel

00:43:20.280 --> 00:43:23.539
what you're feeling and you need to feel it yeah

00:43:23.539 --> 00:43:25.280
because if you don't you're not going to get

00:43:25.280 --> 00:43:29.739
through it and you know she had told me that

00:43:29.739 --> 00:43:31.679
when they had gone through it people had told

00:43:31.679 --> 00:43:36.599
her like well porn's no big deal Sorry, what?

00:43:37.719 --> 00:43:40.440
If you're someone going through this and someone

00:43:40.440 --> 00:43:43.260
tells you that, run away. As fast as you can.

00:43:43.380 --> 00:43:46.159
Yes, because it's a very big deal. Like you said,

00:43:46.360 --> 00:43:48.840
because of course I start going on, I'm Googling,

00:43:48.920 --> 00:43:50.840
what do you do when your husband tells you he's

00:43:50.840 --> 00:43:54.440
addicted to porn? Wow. First of all, the statistics

00:43:54.440 --> 00:43:58.599
are shocking. Do you remember any of them? I

00:43:58.599 --> 00:44:02.690
mean, it's like 70 to 80%. of men are addicted

00:44:02.690 --> 00:44:05.590
to porn and then when you look at it for pastors

00:44:05.590 --> 00:44:08.329
yeah the percentage of pastors who struggle with

00:44:08.329 --> 00:44:11.650
porn addiction wow yeah people in church it's

00:44:11.650 --> 00:44:14.570
it's it's what i think i looked up the stats

00:44:14.570 --> 00:44:19.050
once too it's like over 90 or over 95 of young

00:44:19.050 --> 00:44:21.769
men have been at least been exposed dang yeah

00:44:21.769 --> 00:44:27.349
yeah dang it yeah it's really bad and it's like

00:44:27.349 --> 00:44:30.679
it's in the world but then like statistics in

00:44:30.679 --> 00:44:33.559
the church yeah and then it's not being talked

00:44:33.559 --> 00:44:37.579
about which is even more shocking yeah which

00:44:37.579 --> 00:44:40.199
almost makes it worse yeah oh yeah this thing

00:44:40.199 --> 00:44:43.260
remains in the dark yeah and it's like i mean

00:44:43.260 --> 00:44:46.199
mom and dad i love you and i'm not talking bad

00:44:46.199 --> 00:44:49.260
about you i'm just it is what it is come on no

00:44:49.260 --> 00:44:52.039
it's true but it's real you know like i grew

00:44:52.039 --> 00:44:56.099
up with being told well just don't do this yeah

00:44:56.099 --> 00:44:58.820
okay but why Well, because the Bible says it's

00:44:58.820 --> 00:45:02.340
a sin, so don't do it. Right. But then, you know,

00:45:02.380 --> 00:45:07.059
I'm exposed in third grade and it wasn't even

00:45:07.059 --> 00:45:09.679
anybody's fault. It was like, you know, we had

00:45:09.679 --> 00:45:13.139
TV and we had like a thousand channels back then.

00:45:13.159 --> 00:45:17.019
And we were watching a movie on HBO and fell

00:45:17.019 --> 00:45:18.699
asleep in the living room. And of course, the

00:45:18.699 --> 00:45:21.019
middle of the night back then on HBO is like,

00:45:21.119 --> 00:45:24.159
yep, yep. You know, and I happened to wake up.

00:45:24.440 --> 00:45:30.420
wow and i'm like what is this yeah and so yeah

00:45:30.420 --> 00:45:32.280
it's not really anybody's fault it just happened

00:45:32.280 --> 00:45:37.340
and then i'm like well okay well why is this

00:45:37.340 --> 00:45:41.179
bad right so being eight or nine years old there's

00:45:41.179 --> 00:45:44.159
just a curiosity and then you get older and then

00:45:44.159 --> 00:45:45.480
you're at school and your friends are talking

00:45:45.480 --> 00:45:47.340
about stuff and you're like wait what are you

00:45:47.340 --> 00:45:52.719
talking about right you know and so then it It

00:45:52.719 --> 00:45:55.739
bled over into as I'm going into college that

00:45:55.739 --> 00:45:58.260
I'm like, okay, well, everybody always tells

00:45:58.260 --> 00:45:59.920
you don't do this, but they never tell you why.

00:46:00.059 --> 00:46:03.000
So can it really be that bad? Yeah. Yep. And

00:46:03.000 --> 00:46:05.980
you don't think about the long -term consequences

00:46:05.980 --> 00:46:08.800
because nobody's told you. Right. It was basically

00:46:08.800 --> 00:46:11.280
like, yeah, just don't do it because it's a sin.

00:46:11.340 --> 00:46:13.760
And if you get pregnant and you're not married,

00:46:13.860 --> 00:46:18.320
that's going to be really hard. Okay. Right.

00:46:18.900 --> 00:46:21.420
But that's still not really telling me why I

00:46:21.420 --> 00:46:24.630
shouldn't. Right. So then I'm like, well, let

00:46:24.630 --> 00:46:27.489
me just find out for myself. It doesn't tell

00:46:27.489 --> 00:46:31.409
you about the repercussions as far as the soul

00:46:31.409 --> 00:46:33.650
ties. It doesn't tell you about how it twists

00:46:33.650 --> 00:46:37.250
you up. I mean, like you said, Levi, you're numb.

00:46:37.710 --> 00:46:42.230
Like you're happy -ish, but like not joyful.

00:46:42.730 --> 00:46:46.750
Like it's all of those almost there, but not

00:46:46.750 --> 00:46:50.940
quite. there and then your perspective on what

00:46:50.940 --> 00:46:53.280
you think things need to look like and how people

00:46:53.280 --> 00:46:56.539
need to act and and then it just takes you and

00:46:56.539 --> 00:46:59.139
takes you and takes you yeah we will we will

00:46:59.139 --> 00:47:02.179
constantly talk about before and after for our

00:47:02.179 --> 00:47:04.619
marriage so like for instance when we would go

00:47:04.619 --> 00:47:08.219
on dates and back then for me before it was like

00:47:08.219 --> 00:47:10.139
this is a big moment and it needs to go well

00:47:10.139 --> 00:47:12.440
because it was the only time we really deeply

00:47:12.440 --> 00:47:16.170
connected And so this needs to go well. I would

00:47:16.170 --> 00:47:18.030
be nervous going into it and stuff like going

00:47:18.030 --> 00:47:20.010
on a date with her, you know? And we're married.

00:47:20.170 --> 00:47:22.090
Going on a date when you're married is a good

00:47:22.090 --> 00:47:25.409
thing to do, right? Right. And now, afterwards,

00:47:25.670 --> 00:47:30.010
we constantly connect. Deeply, meaningfully,

00:47:30.090 --> 00:47:33.610
regular days. So when we go on a date, it's so

00:47:33.610 --> 00:47:36.829
light and joyful and carefree. We're laughing,

00:47:36.929 --> 00:47:39.150
connecting, obviously having deep conversations

00:47:39.150 --> 00:47:41.750
when and if they come up on our dates. Sometimes

00:47:41.750 --> 00:47:43.670
they do, sometimes they don't, right? And like

00:47:43.670 --> 00:47:45.730
just enjoying it. Whereas before it was like,

00:47:45.750 --> 00:47:47.670
this is a big moment and it needs to go well

00:47:47.670 --> 00:47:50.849
because it's the only time that I ever get myself

00:47:50.849 --> 00:47:53.610
to a place to have anything deep and meaningful

00:47:53.610 --> 00:47:56.630
with her. You see what I mean? I do. That's who

00:47:56.630 --> 00:47:58.989
I was before. I do. And so I would be so nervous

00:47:58.989 --> 00:48:00.949
going into a date. Like, this is going to help

00:48:00.949 --> 00:48:02.710
us for the next two months here if I get this

00:48:02.710 --> 00:48:05.929
thing right. Whereas now, on a Wednesday night,

00:48:06.130 --> 00:48:08.349
your kids go to bed. I don't know why Wednesdays.

00:48:08.349 --> 00:48:11.110
We're all over Wednesdays. Trying to redeem those

00:48:11.110 --> 00:48:13.230
Wednesday nights. Yeah, that's right. The kids

00:48:13.230 --> 00:48:16.239
go to bed, things like that. And we just have,

00:48:16.239 --> 00:48:18.039
well, you know, something's going on. We'll talk.

00:48:18.039 --> 00:48:19.639
And it's like an hour later, it's like, man,

00:48:19.739 --> 00:48:23.519
I am so glad we talked about XYZ with our budget

00:48:23.519 --> 00:48:26.400
or school with Ace of School or this thing with

00:48:26.400 --> 00:48:28.420
one of the kids or whatever, or like other family

00:48:28.420 --> 00:48:30.219
members. Like, how do we work through this situation?

00:48:30.380 --> 00:48:32.659
Like, it's so deep and meaningful. And I'm so

00:48:32.659 --> 00:48:35.519
glad I have it. And she's amazing. Shanae is

00:48:35.519 --> 00:48:39.099
amazing and strong and full of wisdom. And I'm

00:48:39.099 --> 00:48:41.139
experiencing that more and more and more. Whereas

00:48:41.139 --> 00:48:45.239
like before I had the answer or tried to. Now

00:48:45.239 --> 00:48:49.880
I'm humbled and we just connect and work as a

00:48:49.880 --> 00:48:52.940
team. Didn't have that before. Or even before,

00:48:53.039 --> 00:48:55.760
like I am a funny person. Okay. I think you're

00:48:55.760 --> 00:48:57.059
hilarious. I'm telling you, you're one of my

00:48:57.059 --> 00:49:00.480
favorite people. And like before I'd say something

00:49:00.480 --> 00:49:03.619
funny or something witty, you know, and he would

00:49:03.619 --> 00:49:07.730
be like, oh yeah, that's funny. I'm like, I am

00:49:07.730 --> 00:49:10.809
freaking funny. What is your deal? Now after,

00:49:10.889 --> 00:49:13.869
he genuinely laughs. I'm like, just something

00:49:13.869 --> 00:49:16.449
like that. You wouldn't think of that being anything

00:49:16.449 --> 00:49:19.110
that would be different. But I'm like, I'm glad

00:49:19.110 --> 00:49:21.449
you finally realized how funny I am. I love that.

00:49:21.489 --> 00:49:24.030
So much. So many things we could go on and on

00:49:24.030 --> 00:49:27.050
and on have changed for us and changed for me

00:49:27.050 --> 00:49:31.050
and us, you know, from this that like, we'll

00:49:31.050 --> 00:49:32.710
constantly just be like, oh my gosh, before.

00:49:33.309 --> 00:49:36.230
xyz after xyz i can't even think of every example

00:49:36.230 --> 00:49:40.210
right now but that's a one of the ones um i'll

00:49:40.210 --> 00:49:44.070
ask the obvious because again we we are we there

00:49:44.070 --> 00:49:48.170
is nothing off limits in this world but um as

00:49:48.170 --> 00:49:50.849
far as even your intimacy because there are going

00:49:50.849 --> 00:49:53.829
to be people that are going to be like hey what

00:49:53.829 --> 00:49:57.590
are we doing like now that now that you know

00:49:57.590 --> 00:50:01.250
that this is what's been happening you are three

00:50:01.960 --> 00:50:06.519
kiddamos in and you are like we usually sleep

00:50:06.519 --> 00:50:08.880
naked and now i'm like putting my clothes on

00:50:08.880 --> 00:50:11.559
like you kind of stopped at that spot so like

00:50:11.559 --> 00:50:13.940
yeah take me back there and take me through the

00:50:13.940 --> 00:50:16.500
process as far as what happened there because

00:50:16.500 --> 00:50:19.280
you told me something specific yeah that god

00:50:19.280 --> 00:50:23.539
told you to do um yeah so that first night i

00:50:23.539 --> 00:50:26.630
did i'm like the one pair of pajamas on that

00:50:26.630 --> 00:50:29.730
I own. When you go see the in -laws and stuff.

00:50:31.289 --> 00:50:34.730
This is weird, but you're not looking at me,

00:50:34.809 --> 00:50:38.670
so I'm going to do what I need to do. Again,

00:50:38.829 --> 00:50:42.869
I got one, maybe two hours of sleep, then go

00:50:42.869 --> 00:50:44.929
through the whole next day, and the kids are

00:50:44.929 --> 00:50:49.110
just kind of existing. Asa knows something's

00:50:49.110 --> 00:50:53.420
going on, but doesn't really know. when they

00:50:53.420 --> 00:50:55.460
took a nap that day we're like really hashing

00:50:55.460 --> 00:50:58.699
stuff out and i'm like he finally told me the

00:50:58.699 --> 00:51:01.699
complete truth yeah and i was just like okay

00:51:01.699 --> 00:51:05.500
i don't i don't really know what's next yeah

00:51:05.500 --> 00:51:09.380
but okay yeah and we get through the rest of

00:51:09.380 --> 00:51:11.659
that day he goes to work friday and i'm just

00:51:11.659 --> 00:51:15.820
like all right god what do i do yeah because

00:51:15.820 --> 00:51:20.840
i i don't know yeah and i'm still wrestling with

00:51:21.960 --> 00:51:26.139
do i make him leave do i let him stay i i just

00:51:26.139 --> 00:51:28.500
know i don't want this to be my marriage right

00:51:28.500 --> 00:51:32.380
and so finally i'm like okay i'm gonna write

00:51:32.380 --> 00:51:36.739
a letter and just write out everything i'm feeling

00:51:36.739 --> 00:51:39.360
everything i'm thinking i just need to get it

00:51:39.360 --> 00:51:43.300
on paper and out of my head yeah and i must have

00:51:43.300 --> 00:51:47.780
spent an hour just writing down everything i

00:51:47.780 --> 00:51:49.860
don't i don't know it was like eight or nine

00:51:49.860 --> 00:51:57.579
pages wow wow very long yeah and then like my

00:51:57.579 --> 00:52:00.880
kids were sleeping and i remember i i laid down

00:52:00.880 --> 00:52:03.739
and i fell asleep and it was like the best sleep

00:52:03.739 --> 00:52:09.199
i had gotten in a very long time wow and he comes

00:52:09.199 --> 00:52:12.980
home from work and he like He picked up dinner

00:52:12.980 --> 00:52:15.000
on the way home because it's like, you know,

00:52:15.019 --> 00:52:17.000
nobody's cooking in this house. We don't know

00:52:17.000 --> 00:52:19.599
what's going on. We don't know if we're still

00:52:19.599 --> 00:52:23.619
going to be married or not. And I remember he

00:52:23.619 --> 00:52:26.440
walked through the door and I saw him and I just

00:52:26.440 --> 00:52:30.480
started bawling. And so he like comes over to

00:52:30.480 --> 00:52:32.719
me and I grabbed him and I said, I need you to

00:52:32.719 --> 00:52:36.610
get better because I can't do this. Yeah. And

00:52:36.610 --> 00:52:38.929
it was like once I got everything out of my head,

00:52:39.010 --> 00:52:41.769
I was able to think clearly of, OK, do I want

00:52:41.769 --> 00:52:44.570
to fight for my marriage or am I just I'm just

00:52:44.570 --> 00:52:47.170
going to let it go? Yeah. And I remember thinking

00:52:47.170 --> 00:52:50.570
like, no, I said I do for better or for worse.

00:52:51.349 --> 00:52:55.610
And this is the worst, clearly. Yeah. But it

00:52:55.610 --> 00:52:59.869
better be. Yeah. Yeah. I'm like, but but I did.

00:52:59.929 --> 00:53:04.199
I said I do. Yeah. And. I'm looking at my kids.

00:53:04.440 --> 00:53:06.960
I've got the third one kicking around in my belly.

00:53:07.760 --> 00:53:11.199
I'm like, I want better for my kids. I'm going

00:53:11.199 --> 00:53:13.500
to fight for this. We're going to get through

00:53:13.500 --> 00:53:15.019
it. He's going to get better because that's the

00:53:15.019 --> 00:53:19.860
only option he has. That was a huge moment because

00:53:19.860 --> 00:53:22.320
I'm driving home. At this point, I don't know.

00:53:22.840 --> 00:53:25.460
I don't know anything. I don't know where this

00:53:25.460 --> 00:53:28.239
marriage is going. I don't know. When I came

00:53:28.239 --> 00:53:30.739
home and she was crying like that, looking at

00:53:30.739 --> 00:53:35.750
me, not... anger but with love and pulled me

00:53:35.750 --> 00:53:39.469
in and said that it just broke everything open

00:53:39.469 --> 00:53:44.630
for us and um and from there we started healing

00:53:44.630 --> 00:53:48.929
and i would say rapidly well yeah because we

00:53:48.929 --> 00:53:50.949
went to church it was a friday we went to church

00:53:50.949 --> 00:53:53.489
and like all of our friends are walking in like

00:53:53.489 --> 00:53:55.369
not really knowing what they're going to walk

00:53:55.369 --> 00:53:59.230
into and they see us we're like holding hands

00:53:59.230 --> 00:54:02.769
as we come in and they're like what's going on?

00:54:04.110 --> 00:54:07.469
It's before church, so I'm trying to give him

00:54:07.469 --> 00:54:11.110
all the footnotes. This happened. We'll have

00:54:11.110 --> 00:54:14.730
to tell you more later, but we're okay. Is she

00:54:14.730 --> 00:54:19.650
going to sacrifice him on the altar? Our daughter's

00:54:19.650 --> 00:54:22.909
birthday is two weeks from then, so my parents

00:54:22.909 --> 00:54:24.349
are going to be coming to town. We're going to

00:54:24.349 --> 00:54:28.900
be around everybody. horrible timing for ruining

00:54:28.900 --> 00:54:33.000
my life thanks a lot right but it was they were

00:54:33.000 --> 00:54:37.599
just like what's what's what happened yeah i'm

00:54:37.599 --> 00:54:40.739
like this is it's purely the lord because if

00:54:40.739 --> 00:54:43.699
it were just us trying to navigate this we would

00:54:43.699 --> 00:54:47.579
not be in this position yeah like the only explanation

00:54:47.579 --> 00:54:51.480
is the lord because he told me two days ago and

00:54:51.480 --> 00:54:56.260
i wanted to kill him and now i'm like i see this

00:54:56.260 --> 00:54:59.780
person That I want to help and I want him to

00:54:59.780 --> 00:55:01.900
get better and I want to have the best version

00:55:01.900 --> 00:55:04.219
of my husband for the rest of my life. I love

00:55:04.219 --> 00:55:06.900
that. Yeah. You know, and I want my kids to have

00:55:06.900 --> 00:55:10.719
the best dad. Yeah. And, but it was, everybody

00:55:10.719 --> 00:55:12.800
was just like shocked. I'm like, I'm shocked

00:55:12.800 --> 00:55:16.380
too. Okay. I don't, I don't know. Yeah. And then

00:55:16.380 --> 00:55:19.539
that night. Yeah. So that night we had a phone

00:55:19.539 --> 00:55:23.239
call with Destin and Tori and he is bawling.

00:55:23.300 --> 00:55:25.940
Oh. And I'm like, I used to make fun of him because

00:55:25.940 --> 00:55:29.280
I'm like, I've never seen you cry. Even a single

00:55:29.280 --> 00:55:33.539
tear. Once. Never. One time. Ever. Out of the

00:55:33.539 --> 00:55:35.099
seven years that you guys have been married.

00:55:35.199 --> 00:55:37.039
We've been married seven years, had dated a year

00:55:37.039 --> 00:55:39.739
and a half -ish before that. Had two kids be

00:55:39.739 --> 00:55:42.119
born. I'm like, you've never shed a single tear.

00:55:42.860 --> 00:55:46.059
You were locked up. Bad. Holy cow. I didn't know

00:55:46.059 --> 00:55:49.320
how bad it was. When he's like sobbing on the

00:55:49.320 --> 00:55:52.469
phone and I'm like looking at him like. what

00:55:52.469 --> 00:55:56.409
is wrong with you? Yeah. Because it was so foreign.

00:55:56.570 --> 00:55:58.889
Yeah. Like, I've never seen you cry, and now

00:55:58.889 --> 00:56:02.809
here you are bawling like a baby. Yeah. And I'm

00:56:02.809 --> 00:56:04.789
uncomfortable because I don't know what to do

00:56:04.789 --> 00:56:09.030
with it. Wow. Yeah. But it was good. I'm like,

00:56:09.170 --> 00:56:12.849
okay. Because I remember looking at him, because

00:56:12.849 --> 00:56:15.090
people were like, people asked me after the fact,

00:56:15.190 --> 00:56:17.530
like, well, how do you know that he's changed?

00:56:18.110 --> 00:56:20.110
I said, because I can see it in his eyes when

00:56:20.110 --> 00:56:23.139
I look at him. Yeah. I'm like, I can't really

00:56:23.139 --> 00:56:25.099
explain it other than that, but I can see it

00:56:25.099 --> 00:56:28.500
in him that he's not just telling me that he

00:56:28.500 --> 00:56:31.460
wants to get free, but he actually means it.

00:56:31.719 --> 00:56:35.059
Yeah. Because there was just an honesty and an

00:56:35.059 --> 00:56:37.960
openness and then emotionally I was coming alive.

00:56:38.900 --> 00:56:42.159
So she was experiencing. After that phone call,

00:56:42.199 --> 00:56:45.480
I'm like wrestling with myself on the phone and

00:56:45.480 --> 00:56:49.079
we get off the phone and I'm like, I don't know.

00:56:49.199 --> 00:56:51.300
I don't know what's going on. And he looks at

00:56:51.300 --> 00:56:53.119
me and he's like, are you okay? And I was like,

00:56:53.280 --> 00:56:57.820
I want to have sex, but I don't know if that's

00:56:57.820 --> 00:57:03.219
allowed. And he's like, yeah, I mean, I think.

00:57:03.320 --> 00:57:06.400
He's like, yeah, I think it is. I'm like, but

00:57:06.400 --> 00:57:09.840
is it? Should we be here already? I don't know.

00:57:10.760 --> 00:57:14.239
I remember you looked at me and you said, I want

00:57:14.239 --> 00:57:19.619
to have my husband back. like and like having

00:57:19.619 --> 00:57:22.940
sex is that commitment and covenant really and

00:57:22.940 --> 00:57:28.579
it's really fun and you know and and she and

00:57:28.579 --> 00:57:31.579
but it she i said she said i want almost like

00:57:31.579 --> 00:57:34.380
i'm taking you back yeah you know what i mean

00:57:34.380 --> 00:57:37.559
from this thing that has come on yeah and um

00:57:37.559 --> 00:57:42.019
that was really big for us well yeah i mean because

00:57:42.019 --> 00:57:45.440
even before it's like He would always try to

00:57:45.440 --> 00:57:47.340
initiate. And for whatever reason, it'd be like,

00:57:47.480 --> 00:57:49.880
I just don't. You're not connecting. Like, is

00:57:49.880 --> 00:57:52.340
my body broken? Because I just don't really feel

00:57:52.340 --> 00:57:55.719
like having sex. Yeah. And then, you know, it's

00:57:55.719 --> 00:57:58.840
like, okay, it could be explained when I had

00:57:58.840 --> 00:58:01.500
a baby. So I'm going through the postpartum stuff.

00:58:01.639 --> 00:58:04.440
But then it was like, you know, my kids are,

00:58:04.539 --> 00:58:08.059
I've had them a while ago. So I should be fine

00:58:08.059 --> 00:58:11.539
now. Right. And I'm thinking, like, there's something

00:58:11.539 --> 00:58:14.789
wrong with me. And he's thinking like, well,

00:58:14.809 --> 00:58:16.789
my wife just must really not like me that much

00:58:16.789 --> 00:58:18.989
because she never wants to have sex. Oh, I hate

00:58:18.989 --> 00:58:21.369
the enemy. Not knowing the whole time, it was

00:58:21.369 --> 00:58:24.530
me. Yeah. That thing, whether you want it to

00:58:24.530 --> 00:58:28.030
or not, affects your family. Come on, Levi. It

00:58:28.030 --> 00:58:30.949
was affecting her and she didn't even know she

00:58:30.949 --> 00:58:34.250
was fighting an invisible enemy. Yeah. She didn't

00:58:34.250 --> 00:58:36.449
even know. So if you have something like that

00:58:36.449 --> 00:58:38.849
in your life, your family is fighting something

00:58:38.849 --> 00:58:42.809
they can't see. Yeah. And probably thinking there's

00:58:42.809 --> 00:58:44.969
something wrong with them. And it wasn't even

00:58:44.969 --> 00:58:47.329
that. Like, I would try to get somewhere new

00:58:47.329 --> 00:58:49.389
in my relationship with God. And it was like,

00:58:49.489 --> 00:58:52.110
I would feel like I was getting there and then

00:58:52.110 --> 00:58:55.489
hit a wall. And I'm like, something's wrong with

00:58:55.489 --> 00:58:58.349
me because I cannot get past this wall. Yeah.

00:58:58.829 --> 00:59:01.949
Yeah. And then, yeah, to find out, like, well,

00:59:02.110 --> 00:59:06.849
no, it wasn't really you. Yeah. Yeah. And to

00:59:06.849 --> 00:59:09.289
that point, immediately, it's just you feel a

00:59:09.289 --> 00:59:12.920
sense of loss. Of the seven years, what our marriage

00:59:12.920 --> 00:59:17.059
could have been. And the enemy will try to use

00:59:17.059 --> 00:59:20.840
that for shame. And again, that sense of loss

00:59:20.840 --> 00:59:23.519
of time and things in your life that could have

00:59:23.519 --> 00:59:26.360
been if I had been this person this whole time.

00:59:26.599 --> 00:59:29.980
But it's a deception because what ended up happening

00:59:29.980 --> 00:59:33.739
was those seeds that had been planted were dormant

00:59:33.739 --> 00:59:37.980
and God accelerated them to the point. I think

00:59:37.980 --> 00:59:41.829
Moses in Psalm 90 talks about, like basically

00:59:41.829 --> 00:59:46.030
like something along the lines of like the years

00:59:46.030 --> 00:59:48.489
of like restoring the years of waste. Yep. I

00:59:48.489 --> 00:59:51.010
can't even remember exact phrasing, but it was

00:59:51.010 --> 00:59:54.190
like that for us. Suddenly our lives just accelerated

00:59:54.190 --> 00:59:57.949
in so many ways that for one of them being, we

00:59:57.949 --> 01:00:00.250
now help with revive kids that came like six

01:00:00.250 --> 01:00:03.340
months later. we've always wanted to do something

01:00:03.340 --> 01:00:05.320
like that yeah it was like that thing was locked

01:00:05.320 --> 01:00:07.500
up and could not be open until this happened

01:00:07.500 --> 01:00:10.579
yeah and when it did it came and like we just

01:00:10.579 --> 01:00:12.699
had other things and friendships and connections

01:00:12.699 --> 01:00:14.659
with people that were like man we've wanted this

01:00:14.659 --> 01:00:17.300
for so long and suddenly we're having it yeah

01:00:17.300 --> 01:00:20.679
and so i will say when that lie of the deception

01:00:20.679 --> 01:00:23.159
of the time and it tries to put that shame and

01:00:23.159 --> 01:00:25.880
heaviness on you god will accelerate those years

01:00:25.880 --> 01:00:29.420
back to you amen and i didn't obviously know

01:00:29.420 --> 01:00:33.940
that at the time, but now we do. Yeah. But one

01:00:33.940 --> 01:00:37.639
of the things that I will forever be blown away

01:00:37.639 --> 01:00:42.000
by with Shannae is that she came to me. She came

01:00:42.000 --> 01:00:46.059
to me and looked at me. I can't remember if it

01:00:46.059 --> 01:00:47.719
was Saturday or that Friday. It must've been

01:00:47.719 --> 01:00:50.500
Saturday. So now that Friday, you know, we had

01:00:50.500 --> 01:00:51.960
sex that night, different things that we've had

01:00:51.960 --> 01:00:54.360
these conversations. She came on Saturday and

01:00:54.360 --> 01:00:56.940
looked at me and connected with me in a way of.

01:01:00.619 --> 01:01:03.039
she's going through all this crisis from what

01:01:03.039 --> 01:01:07.960
i did and she looked at me and she was like i

01:01:07.960 --> 01:01:12.300
feel sorry for you that you were dealing with

01:01:12.300 --> 01:01:16.239
this from the age you were 12 and like emotionally

01:01:16.239 --> 01:01:19.280
being locked up what has been stolen from you

01:01:19.280 --> 01:01:25.880
and i remember being just blown away by that

01:01:25.880 --> 01:01:30.090
yeah By her coming to me so compassionate in

01:01:30.090 --> 01:01:32.510
that moment. Obviously not right away. It started

01:01:32.510 --> 01:01:35.989
out with punches, right? Yeah. But after three

01:01:35.989 --> 01:01:38.989
days coming to me with such compassion and she

01:01:38.989 --> 01:01:46.289
led me to the root cause. Okay. And through conversations

01:01:46.289 --> 01:01:49.630
and being 100 % open and honest with each other,

01:01:49.710 --> 01:01:55.739
we discovered the root cause was an image. I

01:01:55.739 --> 01:01:58.159
had an image to try to present to the world.

01:01:58.219 --> 01:02:01.320
And when you're false in any way, it leads to

01:02:01.320 --> 01:02:03.920
other false things getting in. And pornography

01:02:03.920 --> 01:02:07.840
is a false thing. Come on. It's not real. It

01:02:07.840 --> 01:02:11.440
doesn't give you anything. It pretends to give

01:02:11.440 --> 01:02:13.139
you things, right? It doesn't give you anything.

01:02:13.219 --> 01:02:15.940
And it can only live in falseness. It can only

01:02:15.940 --> 01:02:18.920
live in dark. That's the only reason it's there

01:02:18.920 --> 01:02:20.780
is because you have something hidden in your

01:02:20.780 --> 01:02:23.400
life, probably something else. It's not alone.

01:02:23.599 --> 01:02:27.400
It's not there by itself. And it was an image

01:02:27.400 --> 01:02:30.139
that I had learned to present because of a documentary

01:02:30.139 --> 01:02:32.579
I'd been in, because of the church I was in and

01:02:32.579 --> 01:02:34.980
who I was at that church and real things from

01:02:34.980 --> 01:02:37.179
God that I had experienced that now I had to

01:02:37.179 --> 01:02:39.840
almost pretend to be somebody I wasn't. But I

01:02:39.840 --> 01:02:41.699
thought I was, like I mentioned before, I was

01:02:41.699 --> 01:02:43.639
trying to live up to an identity I felt I had

01:02:43.639 --> 01:02:48.219
to be rather than just be real. Just be honest,

01:02:48.239 --> 01:02:50.920
be real. I couldn't, and I couldn't. And so for

01:02:50.920 --> 01:02:55.099
so long, that image thing was there. And it was

01:02:55.099 --> 01:03:00.500
like, oh my God, that's what it is. That's why

01:03:00.500 --> 01:03:03.860
I couldn't tell people I had an image. That's

01:03:03.860 --> 01:03:05.500
why I could deceive myself that it was there

01:03:05.500 --> 01:03:09.000
or not there. I had an image that I lived. I

01:03:09.000 --> 01:03:12.360
lived more that image than my real self. And

01:03:12.360 --> 01:03:16.010
it was just... you helped lead me to that. And

01:03:16.010 --> 01:03:18.269
when it was like, we discovered that root, my

01:03:18.269 --> 01:03:20.949
God, I did everything in my power to attack that

01:03:20.949 --> 01:03:23.969
thing. Right. And be as real and open about everything

01:03:23.969 --> 01:03:29.730
as possible. Yeah. And she led me to that through

01:03:29.730 --> 01:03:33.250
her compassion for me in that moment, which is

01:03:33.250 --> 01:03:37.449
just, I will never forget that. And we, I don't

01:03:37.449 --> 01:03:39.769
want to say we healed quickly because it was

01:03:39.769 --> 01:03:41.829
very hard, difficult conversations, probably

01:03:41.829 --> 01:03:45.000
for six, seven, eight months. Sure. And they

01:03:45.000 --> 01:03:48.039
became less frequent over that time. But this

01:03:48.039 --> 01:03:49.900
is not something that just healed over a weekend

01:03:49.900 --> 01:03:52.800
and now we're good. We had deep, meaningful,

01:03:53.039 --> 01:03:56.360
hurtful at times. Painful, I should say. Maybe

01:03:56.360 --> 01:03:59.219
not hurtful, but painful conversations. Hard

01:03:59.219 --> 01:04:02.320
ones. Two, three hours into the night for weeks,

01:04:02.380 --> 01:04:06.059
months after this. So not saying like, oh, blah,

01:04:06.139 --> 01:04:08.440
blah, blah. We're just over it now. It was a

01:04:08.440 --> 01:04:15.139
process. But you... Being able to do that to

01:04:15.139 --> 01:04:18.519
me, love on me, have compassion in that moment,

01:04:18.559 --> 01:04:25.380
accelerated the healing. And has set us apart

01:04:25.380 --> 01:04:27.780
because then we knew of somebody else, a similar

01:04:27.780 --> 01:04:30.360
thing had happened to them. Now, this person's

01:04:30.360 --> 01:04:32.980
husband did not tell them. They found out. Okay.

01:04:33.199 --> 01:04:38.869
Right. And just kind of... That didn't happen.

01:04:38.949 --> 01:04:40.969
Some of those dynamics didn't happen and it took

01:04:40.969 --> 01:04:45.909
a lot longer. A lot longer to heal. And so for

01:04:45.909 --> 01:04:49.550
us, I just am just always blown away by the woman

01:04:49.550 --> 01:04:53.869
who saw me at my very worst and chose to love

01:04:53.869 --> 01:04:57.889
me. I'll never forget that. And I honor you for

01:04:57.889 --> 01:05:03.829
that. I'll hop in and I'll ask. Because there

01:05:03.829 --> 01:05:07.090
was something that... We talked a little bit

01:05:07.090 --> 01:05:11.190
about it, Dean'na and I did. After y 'all shared

01:05:11.190 --> 01:05:14.730
with us the first time a few months ago, you

01:05:14.730 --> 01:05:18.150
had been on this journey for about a year then.

01:05:21.909 --> 01:05:28.489
For lack of a better word, it was fun to see

01:05:28.489 --> 01:05:33.170
you, Levi, and the freedom and all that you had.

01:05:34.159 --> 01:05:36.139
And then we would look at Shannae on the couch

01:05:36.139 --> 01:05:38.000
sitting next to you, and it's like, she's still

01:05:38.000 --> 01:05:43.280
pissed. Yeah. She's over it, but she's not quite

01:05:43.280 --> 01:05:46.019
over it. Yeah. So I almost asked you upstairs,

01:05:46.099 --> 01:05:47.739
and I'm like, no, I'm going to ask on the podcast

01:05:47.739 --> 01:05:51.119
to put you on the spot. But we can edit this

01:05:51.119 --> 01:05:53.420
out if you really don't. But I am going to put

01:05:53.420 --> 01:05:58.300
you on the spot. How are you in this journey?

01:05:58.579 --> 01:06:01.119
Because we know Levi's jumping up and down and

01:06:01.119 --> 01:06:03.119
shouting from the rooftops how free he is. Yeah.

01:06:03.599 --> 01:06:06.179
And we know you guys are solid as a couple, and

01:06:06.179 --> 01:06:08.940
we're not worried about that. But how are you

01:06:08.940 --> 01:06:13.460
on this journey? I mean, I'm definitely, like,

01:06:13.579 --> 01:06:15.980
you say, like, I'm still pissed. And I think

01:06:15.980 --> 01:06:18.940
what that is is I'm so pissed that this is an

01:06:18.940 --> 01:06:21.239
issue for so many people. Okay. That's good.

01:06:21.699 --> 01:06:26.500
Because, like, why is this happening? Yeah. Why

01:06:26.500 --> 01:06:29.400
is this happening? Yeah. Okay. And then why do

01:06:29.400 --> 01:06:32.099
we feel like we can't talk about it? You know,

01:06:32.119 --> 01:06:35.769
why did it take? seven years for the truth to

01:06:35.769 --> 01:06:39.630
come out yeah so i'm like i'm i'm just angry

01:06:39.630 --> 01:06:42.349
for people that are dealing with this i'm angry

01:06:42.349 --> 01:06:45.090
for wives who don't know what's going on and

01:06:45.090 --> 01:06:46.510
they think that there's something wrong with

01:06:46.510 --> 01:06:48.750
them yeah because i know what that feels like

01:06:48.750 --> 01:06:51.250
right and i'm still like i still have moments

01:06:51.250 --> 01:06:55.050
you know because as women our our bodies are

01:06:55.050 --> 01:06:59.429
constantly changing yes and i'm like you know

01:06:59.429 --> 01:07:02.139
well i don't really like how i look so Why would

01:07:02.139 --> 01:07:04.820
my husband be attracted to me? So that's still

01:07:04.820 --> 01:07:08.219
stuff that I am having to fight through and work

01:07:08.219 --> 01:07:15.780
on. But I'm also just like, what can we do? As

01:07:15.780 --> 01:07:19.340
a body. As a body of Christ. Literally as believers.

01:07:19.880 --> 01:07:23.260
Because, not to cut you off, but you said that

01:07:23.260 --> 01:07:25.059
for seven years, but you've been dealing with

01:07:25.059 --> 01:07:28.119
this since you were 12. So give me some math.

01:07:28.300 --> 01:07:32.699
How long has that been? Oh, how old am I now?

01:07:33.440 --> 01:07:38.239
32. 32. I told you roughly two years ago. So

01:07:38.239 --> 01:07:40.800
it would have been about 18, 19 years. So 18,

01:07:40.860 --> 01:07:42.559
19 years. And you've been in church all your

01:07:42.559 --> 01:07:45.800
life. Yes. OK. Not throwing anybody under a bus.

01:07:45.940 --> 01:07:50.739
Right. But the fact that the church as a whole.

01:07:50.800 --> 01:07:53.599
Right. I mean, this is where Luke and I will

01:07:53.599 --> 01:07:57.949
talk about the things that. Right. Like, why

01:07:57.949 --> 01:08:00.949
are we not having these conversations? Why are

01:08:00.949 --> 01:08:04.349
we not having conversations about masturbation

01:08:04.349 --> 01:08:07.789
and pornography? And why are we not having conversations

01:08:07.789 --> 01:08:10.170
about premarital sex and what that actually does

01:08:10.170 --> 01:08:12.769
to your soul? Why are we not having these kind

01:08:12.769 --> 01:08:15.190
of conversations? Because these things are in

01:08:15.190 --> 01:08:17.810
the Word of God. It is in the Word of God. So

01:08:17.810 --> 01:08:22.390
it's infuriating, and I see why you're pissed.

01:08:23.510 --> 01:08:26.649
Because this is what's gotten our train to where

01:08:26.649 --> 01:08:29.630
we're like, I want to have these hard conversations.

01:08:30.649 --> 01:08:32.970
God has designed our bodies. He's the one that

01:08:32.970 --> 01:08:35.649
created all of these things. Why are we being

01:08:35.649 --> 01:08:39.289
shamed about it? Why are we, why are we not talking

01:08:39.289 --> 01:08:42.189
about, Hey, you can have good sex while you're

01:08:42.189 --> 01:08:44.909
married. You can, it's, it's even better if you

01:08:44.909 --> 01:08:47.949
do X, Y, Z, because this is how it's designed,

01:08:48.090 --> 01:08:50.869
right? Like these things and an understanding

01:08:50.869 --> 01:08:55.800
the repercussions, just the mental work. that

01:08:55.800 --> 01:08:59.000
things reprogram with pornography and masturbation,

01:08:59.020 --> 01:09:02.659
your brain will start rewiring itself. And people

01:09:02.659 --> 01:09:06.140
don't even realize that scientific, the greatest

01:09:06.140 --> 01:09:09.460
scientist of all times, God, creator of the universe,

01:09:09.619 --> 01:09:11.680
is the one that designed that. So why are we

01:09:11.680 --> 01:09:16.939
not listening to the things? We absolutely understand

01:09:16.939 --> 01:09:19.520
that prayer works, deliverance, all the things.

01:09:19.680 --> 01:09:22.479
But we also know... I think that that's where

01:09:22.479 --> 01:09:25.479
we're having to get into the space, the discipleship,

01:09:25.479 --> 01:09:29.220
have the conversations. Like, yes, prayer, but

01:09:29.220 --> 01:09:32.960
now let's talk about it. Let's rework. Let's

01:09:32.960 --> 01:09:36.319
take the thoughts captive. Stop pushing it to

01:09:36.319 --> 01:09:39.520
the side. No, I'm pissed. This is not okay. You

01:09:39.520 --> 01:09:41.760
don't understand what this is doing to me. I'm

01:09:41.760 --> 01:09:44.260
absolutely consumed. Whether it's alcohol or

01:09:44.260 --> 01:09:46.500
drugs. We talk about all the other things. Why

01:09:46.500 --> 01:09:48.579
are we not having this conversation? Because

01:09:48.579 --> 01:09:51.619
this is the thing that defiles the whole body.

01:09:52.319 --> 01:09:57.279
All of it. And then we started discovering other

01:09:57.279 --> 01:10:00.819
people that were close to us. And it was like,

01:10:00.899 --> 01:10:04.600
oh my God. this has to be talked about how sooner

01:10:04.600 --> 01:10:06.520
could maybe we have found freedom or whatever

01:10:06.520 --> 01:10:09.279
like we could go into some of those variables

01:10:09.279 --> 01:10:12.399
but it's more so just like this is real it's

01:10:12.399 --> 01:10:14.779
real life it needs to be dealt with yes and yeah

01:10:14.779 --> 01:10:17.880
we feel because we're experiencing so much freedom

01:10:17.880 --> 01:10:20.779
we feel a sense of like what can we do i love

01:10:20.779 --> 01:10:22.659
that because there's a lot of practical things

01:10:22.659 --> 01:10:26.479
too yes you know it's like okay because like

01:10:26.479 --> 01:10:28.800
that like i i am a firm believer that everything

01:10:28.800 --> 01:10:31.319
has a root Yes. So you have to find out what

01:10:31.319 --> 01:10:33.140
the root is, no matter what it is that you're

01:10:33.140 --> 01:10:35.340
dealing with. OK, find the root. We've got to

01:10:35.340 --> 01:10:37.539
figure that out. But then with him, it's like,

01:10:37.640 --> 01:10:41.439
OK, so what sort of things were you having that

01:10:41.439 --> 01:10:43.840
were like triggering this? Like, OK, I'm going

01:10:43.840 --> 01:10:47.680
to go do this. So it's good because it would

01:10:47.680 --> 01:10:52.409
it was like, you know. I don't know how detailed

01:10:52.409 --> 01:10:54.289
I really want to be, but, like, once a week,

01:10:54.329 --> 01:10:57.449
once every couple weeks, typically. And, like,

01:10:57.470 --> 01:11:01.689
I could feel it coming and hated it. Yeah. I

01:11:01.689 --> 01:11:08.850
could sense days before. And so we made changes

01:11:08.850 --> 01:11:11.829
based on some of those things and just took off.

01:11:12.409 --> 01:11:14.550
you know, 10 o 'clock, my phone would not allow

01:11:14.550 --> 01:11:16.550
me to get online or whatever. And like stuff

01:11:16.550 --> 01:11:18.970
like that. That was so like practical. That's

01:11:18.970 --> 01:11:20.850
good. Setting a boundary on your phone. Like,

01:11:20.890 --> 01:11:23.390
okay, this thing is sort of triggering it. So

01:11:23.390 --> 01:11:26.510
let's change that up. Yes. Let's make sure you're

01:11:26.510 --> 01:11:30.229
not encountering that. Like, yes. Okay. But then

01:11:30.229 --> 01:11:33.229
another thing is like, I'm here to help you and

01:11:33.229 --> 01:11:36.090
support you, but I don't want to be your accountability

01:11:36.090 --> 01:11:38.890
partner. That's good. So you, you need to find

01:11:38.890 --> 01:11:42.100
somebody. Right. And like, Yeah, I'll make sure

01:11:42.100 --> 01:11:44.720
that you're checking in with them and talking

01:11:44.720 --> 01:11:46.979
to them. But, like, I'm not going to do that

01:11:46.979 --> 01:11:50.539
for you. Yeah. You know? And then even, like,

01:11:50.659 --> 01:11:54.920
I said, listen, I love my ring, but you're getting

01:11:54.920 --> 01:11:58.119
me a new one. We are, like, starting over. You're

01:11:58.119 --> 01:12:00.680
getting me a new ring. Yeah. And he was like,

01:12:00.819 --> 01:12:03.039
yeah, that's a great idea. Like, I want to get

01:12:03.039 --> 01:12:05.560
a new one, too. Nice. So we did. For Christmas

01:12:05.560 --> 01:12:07.939
that year, we got new wedding rings. I love that.

01:12:08.000 --> 01:12:12.039
But it was just. That next thing, that like symbol

01:12:12.039 --> 01:12:14.460
of, hey, we're starting over. We're starting

01:12:14.460 --> 01:12:17.560
fresh. This is going to be better than the last

01:12:17.560 --> 01:12:21.659
seven years. Yeah. So I did look up some stats

01:12:21.659 --> 01:12:25.399
for pornography, not just in the world, but also

01:12:25.399 --> 01:12:28.720
in the church. So I'll go through these pretty

01:12:28.720 --> 01:12:30.359
quick or try to go through these somewhat quick.

01:12:31.220 --> 01:12:34.619
Over 40 million Americans are regular visitors

01:12:34.619 --> 01:12:38.579
to porn sites. The average visit lasts 6 minutes

01:12:38.579 --> 01:12:43.220
29 seconds. There are around 42 million porn

01:12:43.220 --> 01:12:47.399
websites, which total around 370 million pages

01:12:47.399 --> 01:12:52.220
of porn. The porn industry's annual revenue is

01:12:52.220 --> 01:12:57.600
more than the NFL, NBA, and MLB combined. It

01:12:57.600 --> 01:13:00.420
is also more than the combined revenues of ABC,

01:13:00.680 --> 01:13:06.079
CBS, and NBC. 47 % of families in the United

01:13:06.079 --> 01:13:08.699
States reported that pornography is a problem

01:13:08.699 --> 01:13:13.479
in their home. Pornography use increases the

01:13:13.479 --> 01:13:17.460
marital infidelity rate by more than 300%. Dang.

01:13:18.300 --> 01:13:22.560
11 is the average age that a child is first exposed

01:13:22.560 --> 01:13:27.220
to porn. and 94 % of children will see porn by

01:13:27.220 --> 01:13:35.300
the age of 14. 56 % of American divorces involve

01:13:35.300 --> 01:13:38.899
one party having an obsessive interest in pornographic

01:13:38.899 --> 01:13:44.380
websites. 70 % of Christian youth pastors report

01:13:44.380 --> 01:13:46.979
that they have had at least one teen come to

01:13:46.979 --> 01:13:49.760
them for help in dealing with pornography in

01:13:49.760 --> 01:13:54.600
the past 12 months. You said 70? 70 % of Christian

01:13:54.600 --> 01:13:58.680
youth pastors, yep. And this was, I think, a

01:13:58.680 --> 01:14:05.239
year ago, this website, the stats. 68 % of church

01:14:05.239 --> 01:14:09.760
-going men and over 50 % of pastors view porn

01:14:09.760 --> 01:14:13.039
on a regular basis. Of young Christian adults

01:14:13.039 --> 01:14:17.800
18 to 24 years old, 76 % actively search for

01:14:17.800 --> 01:14:23.229
porn. 59 % of pastors said that married men seek

01:14:23.229 --> 01:14:27.689
their help for porn use. 33 % of women aged 25

01:14:27.689 --> 01:14:30.289
and under search for porn at least once per month.

01:14:31.010 --> 01:14:34.670
Only 13 % of self -identified Christian women

01:14:34.670 --> 01:14:39.949
can say they never watched porn. 87 % of Christian

01:14:39.949 --> 01:14:45.229
women have. Dang. 55 % of married men and 25

01:14:45.229 --> 01:14:48.989
% of married women say they watch porn at least

01:14:48.989 --> 01:14:54.010
once per month. 57 % of pastors say porn addiction

01:14:54.010 --> 01:14:56.569
is the most damaging issue in their congregation

01:14:56.569 --> 01:15:01.250
and 69 % say porn has adversely impacted the

01:15:01.250 --> 01:15:06.289
church. And then one of the more sad, only 7

01:15:06.289 --> 01:15:09.149
% of pastors say their church has a program to

01:15:09.149 --> 01:15:19.730
help people struggling with pornography. Yeah.

01:15:19.730 --> 01:15:22.970
Like all four of us are even sparks. We're all

01:15:22.970 --> 01:15:26.689
just dumbfounded. Yeah. Yeah. But like at the

01:15:26.689 --> 01:15:28.489
same time, that doesn't even surprise us. No.

01:15:28.569 --> 01:15:30.789
Like I'm over here in tears because I'm thinking

01:15:30.789 --> 01:15:37.390
11, 11 years old. Yeah. It's unfair. Because

01:15:37.390 --> 01:15:41.109
I... I think I was maybe either fourth or sixth

01:15:41.109 --> 01:15:43.050
grade was the first time I ever encountered it.

01:15:43.449 --> 01:15:49.189
Yeah. And it was a friend's dad's stash. Yep.

01:15:50.270 --> 01:15:53.109
And then people wonder why our generation is

01:15:53.109 --> 01:15:55.130
like, oh, you're so strict with your kids. No,

01:15:55.210 --> 01:15:56.689
I'm trying to save their life. You're trying

01:15:56.689 --> 01:15:58.550
to save their life. Call me strict, but I am

01:15:58.550 --> 01:16:00.989
trying to protect them from what I went through.

01:16:01.149 --> 01:16:05.630
Yes. Yes. Especially with the ease of access.

01:16:05.989 --> 01:16:10.989
Yes. I mean. 370 million pages, web pages. That's

01:16:10.989 --> 01:16:13.130
insane. That's more than the population of the

01:16:13.130 --> 01:16:17.170
US. That is insane. That is insane. That's crazy.

01:16:17.609 --> 01:16:21.170
Yeah. I mean, and then we're not even going to

01:16:21.170 --> 01:16:23.329
go into the whole, because that's a whole other

01:16:23.329 --> 01:16:26.189
can of worms, but I follow a page. It's people

01:16:26.189 --> 01:16:28.989
are not property. And it's talking about trafficking.

01:16:29.210 --> 01:16:31.250
And it's talking about abuse. Well, and it's

01:16:31.250 --> 01:16:33.470
also, like you mentioned earlier, it's not talking

01:16:33.470 --> 01:16:36.390
about the romance novels and the soft core stuff.

01:16:36.409 --> 01:16:39.270
The soft core. I mean, like Victoria's Secret.

01:16:39.609 --> 01:16:43.609
Tori, she shut everything down for Dustin. He

01:16:43.609 --> 01:16:46.569
doesn't get even magazines, like anything, right?

01:16:46.630 --> 01:16:50.670
Like, it's saving. We go to the gym, or we used

01:16:50.670 --> 01:16:53.430
to be in the gym a lot, and it's like bouncing

01:16:53.430 --> 01:16:57.760
your eyes in a gym. Right. Because you're having

01:16:57.760 --> 01:17:01.739
to... Dear God. Okay. Can't... Okay. We actually...

01:17:01.739 --> 01:17:04.420
We had to quit a gym because a vast majority

01:17:04.420 --> 01:17:08.300
of the females were like teenagers and 20 -somethings

01:17:08.300 --> 01:17:10.479
and they would wear just a sports bra and tiny,

01:17:10.600 --> 01:17:12.520
tiny shorts. That was it. I'm like, babe, I can't.

01:17:12.520 --> 01:17:14.699
We're done. I'm like, I can't. I can't do this.

01:17:14.720 --> 01:17:18.060
And having that honesty is so important. So important.

01:17:18.840 --> 01:17:21.880
Because I'm going to speak to the women. Shannae,

01:17:21.939 --> 01:17:23.739
you and I get to speak to the women on this one,

01:17:23.819 --> 01:17:28.479
okay? Because... You want your husband honest

01:17:28.479 --> 01:17:32.380
with you. Okay. Because sometimes it's, it's

01:17:32.380 --> 01:17:35.279
that lie of if I say something to my wife, she's

01:17:35.279 --> 01:17:36.899
not going to think that I think she's attractive.

01:17:37.060 --> 01:17:38.920
Oh, you're looking at other women. I need you

01:17:38.920 --> 01:17:43.140
to shut up. Right. Right. Shut up. He is trying

01:17:43.140 --> 01:17:46.079
to tell you something. He is trying to say, Hey

01:17:46.079 --> 01:17:51.619
babe. Hey, hi. Red flag. Like I need freaking

01:17:51.619 --> 01:17:55.039
help right now. And we need to love them enough

01:17:55.039 --> 01:17:57.960
to say, absolutely. What do you need from me?

01:17:58.359 --> 01:18:00.720
What do you need from me? I will block you out

01:18:00.720 --> 01:18:02.819
of this situation. Yep, here, I'm taking you

01:18:02.819 --> 01:18:05.659
by the hand. Here we go. Because they do that

01:18:05.659 --> 01:18:09.739
for us, right? Like if we said, they should be.

01:18:09.840 --> 01:18:12.260
They should be. I'm on the phone with Luke on

01:18:12.260 --> 01:18:15.180
my way today. I told you guys, it's been a day,

01:18:15.239 --> 01:18:18.720
right? No big deal. But I'm like, just give me

01:18:18.720 --> 01:18:21.060
five minutes. Hey, baby, you got five minutes?

01:18:21.930 --> 01:18:25.430
You know? Yeah. Right? Like, what can I do? Nothing.

01:18:25.569 --> 01:18:28.270
I just need you to hear me and just remind me

01:18:28.270 --> 01:18:30.909
I'm okay. Right. Remind me I'm okay. Is there

01:18:30.909 --> 01:18:33.050
anything that you... Babe, I'm just... I'm tired,

01:18:33.270 --> 01:18:36.949
babe. I know you're tired. Like, having these

01:18:36.949 --> 01:18:39.989
real conversations of, I am not... Levi, you're

01:18:39.989 --> 01:18:43.229
saying it. I am not as strong as I portray myself

01:18:43.229 --> 01:18:46.050
to be. Right. Like, I have got six foot three

01:18:46.050 --> 01:18:49.329
over here. Two hundred and a... Amazingness.

01:18:49.329 --> 01:18:53.250
$2 .65. $2 .65 of the most amazingness of stuff.

01:18:53.909 --> 01:18:58.369
Yeah. And, baby, okay? Can you just hold me?

01:18:59.409 --> 01:19:04.829
Right. It's heavy out there. And we do not need

01:19:04.829 --> 01:19:07.569
to be helping in that pressure with our husbands.

01:19:07.949 --> 01:19:10.550
Right. So good. We need to be the place that

01:19:10.550 --> 01:19:14.090
is safe where they can put their guard down and

01:19:14.090 --> 01:19:18.060
say, I am not okay. yeah as women though we expect

01:19:18.060 --> 01:19:22.520
like well my husband just needs to bear the brunt

01:19:22.520 --> 01:19:24.619
of everything and handle it he's the knight in

01:19:24.619 --> 01:19:27.880
shining armor yes yeah that's that's not realistic

01:19:27.880 --> 01:19:31.079
he's a human yeah he is but as wives and women

01:19:31.079 --> 01:19:34.680
we can be really terrible at shutting our husbands

01:19:34.680 --> 01:19:38.159
down yep You know, like, well, you're the husband,

01:19:38.220 --> 01:19:42.760
deal with it. Yeah, suck it up. No, I much prefer

01:19:42.760 --> 01:19:45.399
when my husband can come to me and say, hey,

01:19:45.439 --> 01:19:49.399
I'm really struggling with this. Yeah. I prefer

01:19:49.399 --> 01:19:53.859
that. I don't need him to be everything for me.

01:19:54.319 --> 01:19:58.340
I just need him to be honest and open and real

01:19:58.340 --> 01:20:01.340
with me. And that shifted our marriage and made

01:20:01.340 --> 01:20:03.789
it stronger. Yeah. For sure. Because does it

01:20:03.789 --> 01:20:06.430
not? Like, literally, when we do that for them,

01:20:06.609 --> 01:20:10.829
that's like King Kong on cocaine, isn't it, baby?

01:20:11.430 --> 01:20:13.569
Yeah, it is. Like, all of a sudden, it's just

01:20:13.569 --> 01:20:17.109
like, I got you. I'm not going anywhere. We're

01:20:17.109 --> 01:20:20.590
going to battle this thing together. Oh, I will

01:20:20.590 --> 01:20:22.909
take that down. I will spider monkey that thing.

01:20:23.409 --> 01:20:26.409
And we will bring it down. And every stronghold

01:20:26.409 --> 01:20:28.529
that tries to come up against, it will not stand.

01:20:28.630 --> 01:20:30.949
It's not going to come to our house. Yeah. So

01:20:30.949 --> 01:20:33.029
like real life example, what did you do with

01:20:33.029 --> 01:20:35.449
that? How was it for you when I sent you that

01:20:35.449 --> 01:20:37.149
text the other day from work? You remember what

01:20:37.149 --> 01:20:40.949
I'm talking about? No, remind me. I had turned

01:20:40.949 --> 01:20:44.029
on a movie. That's good, I guess. Maybe that

01:20:44.029 --> 01:20:45.329
you don't even remember. That's only like two,

01:20:45.409 --> 01:20:48.489
three weeks ago. I turned on a movie. She was

01:20:48.489 --> 01:20:50.640
going to sleep. or you were falling asleep while

01:20:50.640 --> 01:20:52.520
I was watching it. I have an interest in sci

01:20:52.520 --> 01:20:55.380
-fi sometimes. She doesn't care, so I'm going

01:20:55.380 --> 01:20:57.039
to watch it. She's going to fall asleep. It's

01:20:57.039 --> 01:21:01.399
fine. Something else had kind of popped up, and

01:21:01.399 --> 01:21:06.680
it was just the words. There's no image or anything

01:21:06.680 --> 01:21:08.819
like that. As I was searching for this thing

01:21:08.819 --> 01:21:10.779
I was going for, and I clicked on it, and things

01:21:10.779 --> 01:21:14.539
like that will come up for 100 % sure. You're

01:21:14.539 --> 01:21:17.279
going to have struggles even after you tell your

01:21:17.279 --> 01:21:21.020
wife. typically i could just push it to this

01:21:21.020 --> 01:21:24.619
like no leave me alone yeah for some reason the

01:21:24.619 --> 01:21:28.079
next day while i was at work it i could not get

01:21:28.079 --> 01:21:31.479
that word off my mind and it was like get on

01:21:31.479 --> 01:21:33.399
your phone go to that site watch that thing get

01:21:33.399 --> 01:21:35.119
on your phone go to that site watch that thing

01:21:35.119 --> 01:21:38.720
whatever you know and it was driving me nuts

01:21:38.720 --> 01:21:40.619
and like again typically i could just be like

01:21:40.619 --> 01:21:43.119
stop go away and this time i was like i'm not

01:21:43.119 --> 01:21:47.319
so i text you and i said i am having this thought

01:21:47.319 --> 01:21:50.600
about this show in watching this thing. I want

01:21:50.600 --> 01:21:52.859
to tell you that because I think right now I

01:21:52.859 --> 01:21:56.800
just need to be honest with you on this to make

01:21:56.800 --> 01:21:59.180
this thing go away. It was like, hey, tell her.

01:21:59.880 --> 01:22:04.180
And so I did. And there could be a fear of like,

01:22:04.279 --> 01:22:06.380
gosh, I'm going to just set off alarm bells in

01:22:06.380 --> 01:22:08.039
her and she's going to be asking me for the next

01:22:08.039 --> 01:22:11.520
three weeks. But I knew because of where we've

01:22:11.520 --> 01:22:13.380
been and how honest we've been on different things,

01:22:13.439 --> 01:22:16.880
you would not respond like that. No, because

01:22:16.880 --> 01:22:19.680
I'd rather know. I would rather know. And then,

01:22:19.699 --> 01:22:22.199
yeah, what can we do to help you and to get you

01:22:22.199 --> 01:22:25.819
past that? Yeah. She ended up being, she's like,

01:22:25.939 --> 01:22:28.000
wait, what was it? And she texted me back. She's

01:22:28.000 --> 01:22:30.760
like, that is not about anything you're thinking

01:22:30.760 --> 01:22:34.380
about right now. See, now I'm so curious. I was

01:22:34.380 --> 01:22:36.810
like, no, actually, that's like. That has nothing

01:22:36.810 --> 01:22:39.829
to do with that, actually. It's fine, but I'm

01:22:39.829 --> 01:22:41.489
glad you told me. I remember what it was. Because

01:22:41.489 --> 01:22:44.930
then, too, it's just that little thought of curiosity

01:22:44.930 --> 01:22:47.210
just poking at him, poking at him, poking at

01:22:47.210 --> 01:22:49.550
him. It would not leave me alone. And typically

01:22:49.550 --> 01:22:51.850
I could. I think maybe it was just something

01:22:51.850 --> 01:22:54.270
where God was like, hey, tell her and you'll

01:22:54.270 --> 01:22:57.369
be free. And so it was just keeping that open.

01:22:57.430 --> 01:22:59.130
This is a year and a half later. It's almost

01:22:59.130 --> 01:23:02.149
like those weird obedience checks. I'm going

01:23:02.149 --> 01:23:05.109
to have you do this just to double check you're

01:23:05.109 --> 01:23:09.350
still obedient. Because the freedom came out

01:23:09.350 --> 01:23:12.829
of honesty. The truth will set you free is a

01:23:12.829 --> 01:23:14.890
whole different meaning for me now. Seriously.

01:23:15.189 --> 01:23:21.710
I tried everything. And the truth set me free

01:23:21.710 --> 01:23:24.250
when I was finally 100 % truthful with you. And

01:23:24.250 --> 01:23:27.130
so in that one, it just was that way. I just

01:23:27.130 --> 01:23:30.189
had to tell her. And, you know, you have other

01:23:30.189 --> 01:23:32.050
guys in your life, too, that, like, I'll call

01:23:32.050 --> 01:23:34.470
you kind of thing. So those are good things to

01:23:34.470 --> 01:23:37.710
have, too. But that one was Tell Shannae. And,

01:23:37.750 --> 01:23:43.210
yeah, it was Adult Swim. Oh. Yeah. It was just

01:23:43.210 --> 01:23:45.750
a black screen that said Adult Swim. She's like,

01:23:45.869 --> 01:23:48.850
it's a channel, babe. I'm sure there's something

01:23:48.850 --> 01:23:50.909
inappropriate on there, but it's not, like, what

01:23:50.909 --> 01:23:52.550
you're thinking. For some reason, that just,

01:23:52.609 --> 01:23:55.390
like, rang in my mind, and I could not get it

01:23:55.390 --> 01:23:57.170
off. And it was like, go there, go there, go

01:23:57.170 --> 01:23:59.119
there. And I'm like, I don't know. don't even

01:23:59.119 --> 01:24:02.659
want to you know and so but telling her and it

01:24:02.659 --> 01:24:04.960
just from there it just went away it just disappeared

01:24:04.960 --> 01:24:08.800
yeah so anyway but it's like that you know he

01:24:08.800 --> 01:24:10.800
went through this process and one thing Dustin

01:24:10.800 --> 01:24:13.500
had told him early on was like you need to become

01:24:13.500 --> 01:24:16.319
so honest that you're honest to a fault yeah

01:24:16.319 --> 01:24:18.659
and it's like that's something he really took

01:24:18.659 --> 01:24:22.460
on yeah and he needed to do that because he had

01:24:22.460 --> 01:24:26.369
spent so long living in a cloud yeah where he

01:24:26.369 --> 01:24:28.409
couldn't be honest and he didn't know that he

01:24:28.409 --> 01:24:31.350
couldn't be honest and so yeah something like

01:24:31.350 --> 01:24:32.989
that it's like yeah i can laugh about it because

01:24:32.989 --> 01:24:36.189
i'm like okay that's not that's not anything

01:24:36.189 --> 01:24:40.390
but like i'm glad you told me because that thing's

01:24:40.390 --> 01:24:43.829
been bugging you you need to tell me yeah so

01:24:43.829 --> 01:24:48.649
it's just good real life example but yeah um

01:24:48.649 --> 01:24:51.329
is there anything else you guys want to bring

01:24:51.329 --> 01:24:55.640
to the table Before we wrap up. Because you guys

01:24:55.640 --> 01:24:58.619
have been incredibly transparent. I'm very proud

01:24:58.619 --> 01:25:02.399
of you guys. Very proud of you guys. Not that

01:25:02.399 --> 01:25:04.300
you need to hear it out of boy, out of girl from

01:25:04.300 --> 01:25:08.100
me and Luke, but genuinely, thank you guys. Number

01:25:08.100 --> 01:25:12.060
one, for entrusting us to be here. But number

01:25:12.060 --> 01:25:18.079
two, for not being scared to fight that thing.

01:25:19.560 --> 01:25:24.100
And knowing that it's not just you. Like, I think

01:25:24.100 --> 01:25:27.279
that that's what fuels, like, you're not the

01:25:27.279 --> 01:25:29.739
only ones. No, I mean, listen to the statistics.

01:25:29.920 --> 01:25:33.039
That is insane. You think, well, we can't tell

01:25:33.039 --> 01:25:35.939
anybody because nobody else is doing it. Everybody's

01:25:35.939 --> 01:25:37.779
dealing with it. Yeah. Everybody's dealing with

01:25:37.779 --> 01:25:40.340
it. And nobody's talking about it. That's why

01:25:40.340 --> 01:25:43.220
it's a problem. 7 % of churches have a plan to

01:25:43.220 --> 01:25:46.640
deal with it. That's, that's devastating. That

01:25:46.640 --> 01:25:50.260
is devastating. Yes, I agree. you said in the

01:25:50.260 --> 01:25:52.199
car on the way over here we were talking to and

01:25:52.199 --> 01:25:57.739
you said i knew one person i could call i yeah

01:25:57.739 --> 01:26:00.039
i mean like i had my i had my girls you know

01:26:00.039 --> 01:26:03.699
but it was like even then our relationship with

01:26:03.699 --> 01:26:06.020
our friends like these are our people yeah yeah

01:26:06.020 --> 01:26:09.140
y 'all are like y 'all are tight yeah and it's

01:26:09.140 --> 01:26:12.439
like but even then before this it was like we

01:26:12.439 --> 01:26:15.439
could only go so far like these are my siblings

01:26:15.439 --> 01:26:19.159
yeah you know yeah like we just can't go any

01:26:19.159 --> 01:26:21.859
farther than this yeah but it's like now it's

01:26:21.859 --> 01:26:23.899
like yeah when shit's hitting the fan like these

01:26:23.899 --> 01:26:25.939
are the people we're going to right it opened

01:26:25.939 --> 01:26:28.479
up a whole new world for us and our friends too

01:26:28.479 --> 01:26:30.920
yes because we all started getting open and honest

01:26:30.920 --> 01:26:33.399
in their relationship tell me what you're doing

01:26:33.399 --> 01:26:36.420
to your life yeah but yeah like but outside of

01:26:36.420 --> 01:26:38.659
that i'm like with each other i only know one

01:26:38.659 --> 01:26:41.409
person on this planet who has been through this

01:26:41.409 --> 01:26:43.210
in their marriage that i can go to and that's

01:26:43.210 --> 01:26:46.430
a problem yeah i'm glad i'm very thankful and

01:26:46.430 --> 01:26:49.090
i'm glad that i could go to tori yeah but i'm

01:26:49.090 --> 01:26:52.510
like yeah why is there only one person that i

01:26:52.510 --> 01:26:54.909
know of that i can talk to about this right yeah

01:26:54.909 --> 01:26:59.050
we gotta have more gotta have more conversations

01:26:59.050 --> 01:27:04.010
yeah being open and honest yeah yeah and you

01:27:04.010 --> 01:27:06.850
know i'm not here to make light of what happened

01:27:06.850 --> 01:27:10.590
and what i did to my family That really did happen.

01:27:10.649 --> 01:27:13.510
It really did devastate and hurt things. And

01:27:13.510 --> 01:27:16.850
just because we're in a really good place now,

01:27:17.069 --> 01:27:22.649
I'm not trying to present an image that shows

01:27:22.649 --> 01:27:25.210
me in such a way or we're trying to twist the

01:27:25.210 --> 01:27:28.170
story to show me in such a way. I don't want

01:27:28.170 --> 01:27:32.189
that anymore, ever. I really did that to my family.

01:27:32.350 --> 01:27:35.289
And it was awful. And now we're on the other

01:27:35.289 --> 01:27:39.140
side and freedom. And I'm really grateful that

01:27:39.140 --> 01:27:42.439
I came to you about it and not just that we're

01:27:42.439 --> 01:27:45.720
here now because you found out. Right. Well,

01:27:45.779 --> 01:27:49.060
because I specifically, I asked God, I said,

01:27:49.140 --> 01:27:52.380
I was like, God, what the hell? Yeah. Like this

01:27:52.380 --> 01:27:55.079
has been going on in my house when I have been

01:27:55.079 --> 01:27:59.640
in the house. Like, yeah. Yeah. Why? Why did

01:27:59.640 --> 01:28:02.619
I, why did I not know? Why did I not find out?

01:28:02.720 --> 01:28:06.649
And, and God was just straight up like. Because

01:28:06.649 --> 01:28:09.529
if you had found out without him telling you,

01:28:09.590 --> 01:28:13.850
you would not be where you are. Like the Lord

01:28:13.850 --> 01:28:16.630
was protecting me from finding him doing that.

01:28:16.909 --> 01:28:20.010
Because he needed to be the one to come to me

01:28:20.010 --> 01:28:22.270
and be honest about it so that we could get through

01:28:22.270 --> 01:28:26.770
it. And it's like, yeah, I mean, again, seven

01:28:26.770 --> 01:28:30.989
years and not one time did I walk in on it or

01:28:30.989 --> 01:28:34.399
have any clue that anything was happening. But

01:28:34.399 --> 01:28:37.600
it was the Lord shielding me from it. Yeah. And

01:28:37.600 --> 01:28:40.239
it's like, okay, well, that really sucked, but

01:28:40.239 --> 01:28:44.060
I understand it. Because I do think, had I just

01:28:44.060 --> 01:28:47.420
found out on my own, this would be a whole different

01:28:47.420 --> 01:28:53.239
situation. Yeah. I'll also say I appreciate you

01:28:53.239 --> 01:28:56.960
two illustrating that it wasn't an overnight

01:28:56.960 --> 01:29:01.260
or even within a week or a month process. That

01:29:01.260 --> 01:29:05.050
it was a process. Because I know we talk about,

01:29:05.050 --> 01:29:06.810
you know, like exposing things and, you know,

01:29:06.810 --> 01:29:09.189
just say it out, you know, say it out loud. You

01:29:09.189 --> 01:29:11.010
know, sunlight is the greatest disinfectant.

01:29:11.050 --> 01:29:13.329
You know, and oftentimes it's just like with

01:29:13.329 --> 01:29:15.630
healing. It's like, well, we prayed for healing.

01:29:15.710 --> 01:29:17.689
Why aren't I healed immediately? You know, and

01:29:17.689 --> 01:29:21.970
it's like, it's as awesome as it is to hear those

01:29:21.970 --> 01:29:24.869
immediate stories and the now moments. It's like,

01:29:24.909 --> 01:29:28.630
it's also very good and reassuring to hear these,

01:29:28.689 --> 01:29:33.000
the process. Yeah. You know, that. Yes, it was

01:29:33.000 --> 01:29:36.479
a process. It was a struggle. It was climbing

01:29:36.479 --> 01:29:38.960
over obstacles and fighting this through. But

01:29:38.960 --> 01:29:41.960
every day we step forward. Every day we step

01:29:41.960 --> 01:29:46.340
together forward through this. So I appreciate

01:29:46.340 --> 01:29:48.840
that as well, that you guys are showing that

01:29:48.840 --> 01:29:51.619
it wasn't just we had a conversation. I showed

01:29:51.619 --> 01:29:53.600
my phone and now, oh, look, now we're happy and

01:29:53.600 --> 01:29:57.399
good and free. Because you and I talk about habits

01:29:57.399 --> 01:30:00.789
even being broken. Like it becomes a habit. And

01:30:00.789 --> 01:30:03.930
so many times it's that stronghold. Yes, that

01:30:03.930 --> 01:30:06.109
stronghold lifts and all of the things happen.

01:30:06.350 --> 01:30:08.529
But now you have to get yourself out of the habit.

01:30:08.930 --> 01:30:14.729
And it's reframing those boundaries, like you

01:30:14.729 --> 01:30:17.050
were talking about, Shannae. And then it's also

01:30:17.050 --> 01:30:22.630
just discipline. One of Luke's favorite things

01:30:22.630 --> 01:30:25.489
is... Self -control is one of the fruits of the

01:30:25.489 --> 01:30:28.270
Spirit. And it's like a lot of people don't want

01:30:28.270 --> 01:30:30.609
to talk about the discipline behind walking this

01:30:30.609 --> 01:30:33.930
with God. It's part of discipline is, yes, I

01:30:33.930 --> 01:30:37.149
am my brother's keeper or my husband's, my wife's,

01:30:37.149 --> 01:30:39.229
right? It's I get to walk with these people.

01:30:39.310 --> 01:30:41.850
I get to keep them. Not because I'm trying to

01:30:41.850 --> 01:30:44.170
push them down and trying to, because I want

01:30:44.170 --> 01:30:45.989
to elevate them and I want to make them better.

01:30:46.510 --> 01:30:50.989
Like we have this, the enemy has got it so twisted.

01:30:51.760 --> 01:30:53.859
That you have to, in order to be a strong Christian,

01:30:54.039 --> 01:30:56.359
you have to be a perfect Christian. No, no, you

01:30:56.359 --> 01:30:58.920
don't. What makes you a strong Christian is you

01:30:58.920 --> 01:31:01.000
keep laying it to the feet of Jesus. Absolutely.

01:31:01.000 --> 01:31:02.760
And you keep going back and you keep going back

01:31:02.760 --> 01:31:06.840
and you keep going back. Absolutely. Yeah. Simple

01:31:06.840 --> 01:31:10.399
God, simple church. Just something that's just

01:31:10.399 --> 01:31:13.760
been resonating inside of me lately. Just like,

01:31:13.819 --> 01:31:18.680
just experience him for who he is, how he is.

01:31:18.840 --> 01:31:21.789
And he's so gracious. to talk to you in the way

01:31:21.789 --> 01:31:24.890
that you can hear him. Amen. And to, to meet

01:31:24.890 --> 01:31:27.369
you in the way that you can meet with him. Like

01:31:27.369 --> 01:31:30.569
he's not making it hard. Before my relationship

01:31:30.569 --> 01:31:33.289
with God was difficult because I had to accomplish

01:31:33.289 --> 01:31:36.250
something to have one with him. You know, that's

01:31:36.250 --> 01:31:38.909
because I had this image, right? And now it's

01:31:38.909 --> 01:31:40.949
just like, no, I'm able to just meet him because

01:31:40.949 --> 01:31:45.270
he's real. It's good. Like, and I'm real and

01:31:45.270 --> 01:31:49.149
I connect, he connects with me, you know, it's

01:31:49.149 --> 01:31:52.010
just, the way it is, one of my favorite things

01:31:52.010 --> 01:31:55.069
to say is there's no way I'm a better father

01:31:55.069 --> 01:31:58.850
than he is. Right. Yes. Very good at being a

01:31:58.850 --> 01:32:02.770
father and so willing and able to connect, you

01:32:02.770 --> 01:32:08.250
know, even. And so I think our main goal for

01:32:08.250 --> 01:32:11.670
today really was just the honesty because that's

01:32:11.670 --> 01:32:15.050
what set us free. The truth set us free. Yep.

01:32:15.520 --> 01:32:19.020
And to reinforce that for anybody who's listening,

01:32:19.180 --> 01:32:22.439
if there's something there, a relationship at

01:32:22.439 --> 01:32:25.319
work you shouldn't have, emotional relationship,

01:32:25.500 --> 01:32:28.760
right? Like something, maybe you do just struggle

01:32:28.760 --> 01:32:31.060
looking here and there. Maybe you don't go to

01:32:31.060 --> 01:32:33.199
a website, but you scroll through Instagram on

01:32:33.199 --> 01:32:35.300
things you shouldn't or whatever. Come on, sir.

01:32:35.340 --> 01:32:39.260
That was somebody we knew. And, you know, another

01:32:39.260 --> 01:32:41.500
person, the emotional relationships thing. So,

01:32:41.560 --> 01:32:43.739
like, other things like that. If there is something,

01:32:43.840 --> 01:32:45.880
God is hitting you on it right now, or it just

01:32:45.880 --> 01:32:48.359
keeps coming to your mind as we're talking, the

01:32:48.359 --> 01:32:50.920
truth will set you free. You've got to talk to

01:32:50.920 --> 01:32:53.300
your spouse about it. And I would encourage you

01:32:53.300 --> 01:32:56.699
to do that. Amen. And find accountability with

01:32:56.699 --> 01:32:58.899
people you trust to get yourself to do that.

01:32:59.100 --> 01:33:01.880
Yes. Or even if you're not married. Like, if

01:33:01.880 --> 01:33:04.560
you want to be married, figure this out now.

01:33:04.699 --> 01:33:07.680
Yes. So you don't. That's good. ruined somebody

01:33:07.680 --> 01:33:11.319
else's life yeah you know like this is we know

01:33:11.319 --> 01:33:14.460
people who are engaged and i'm like have you

01:33:14.460 --> 01:33:17.819
laid everything out yeah have you just vomited

01:33:17.819 --> 01:33:21.640
all of it because if you haven't and you're trying

01:33:21.640 --> 01:33:24.399
to oh it's fine i don't we don't need to go no

01:33:24.399 --> 01:33:26.380
you need to go there no once we're married it

01:33:26.380 --> 01:33:31.630
won't come up ever again yeah actually it becomes

01:33:31.630 --> 01:33:34.689
magnified figure this out before you are married

01:33:34.689 --> 01:33:38.590
and my god before you have kids yeah yeah because

01:33:38.590 --> 01:33:42.869
then you have to think about them yeah yeah yeah

01:33:42.869 --> 01:33:44.390
you know i don't want to say if we didn't have

01:33:44.390 --> 01:33:46.590
kids like oh we wouldn't be together but like

01:33:46.590 --> 01:33:49.970
in that moment the kids were truly the thing

01:33:49.970 --> 01:33:52.930
that kept it together gotcha yeah no no that's

01:33:52.930 --> 01:33:56.310
real that's my only reason was i have kids yeah

01:33:56.310 --> 01:33:58.840
so i can't I can't walk away from this because

01:33:58.840 --> 01:34:01.359
of them. What is that going to do to their life?

01:34:01.779 --> 01:34:08.779
I think we would have come back around, but I

01:34:08.779 --> 01:34:11.079
definitely wouldn't have been in the house. But

01:34:11.079 --> 01:34:14.779
it probably would have been a much longer process

01:34:14.779 --> 01:34:17.539
of me dealing with the rage and the anger and

01:34:17.539 --> 01:34:21.800
the hurt. Not to say, I definitely felt all of

01:34:21.800 --> 01:34:25.899
it, went through all of it. I think it would

01:34:25.899 --> 01:34:27.979
have been prolonged. We even had some people

01:34:27.979 --> 01:34:30.979
around us who knew what was going on and some

01:34:30.979 --> 01:34:32.760
of the things that had been said from you to

01:34:32.760 --> 01:34:34.239
me and were like, oh, she shouldn't have said

01:34:34.239 --> 01:34:37.359
that. And I said, yes, she should have. She is

01:34:37.359 --> 01:34:40.460
allowed to say anything she wants. Or, well,

01:34:40.500 --> 01:34:42.380
you shouldn't have put your hands on him. Well,

01:34:42.420 --> 01:34:46.300
that one I did say to you. In hindsight, I probably

01:34:46.300 --> 01:34:50.840
shouldn't have. Don't necessarily regret that.

01:34:50.899 --> 01:34:52.500
No, I hear you. I'm not going to condone, like,

01:34:52.560 --> 01:34:54.680
hey, go beat the crap out of your husband. Yeah.

01:34:54.779 --> 01:34:59.079
But, like, in that moment. Understood. Yeah.

01:34:59.140 --> 01:35:02.180
I didn't know what else to do. Yeah. And I did

01:35:02.180 --> 01:35:05.779
apologize for that. We worked through that, too.

01:35:06.319 --> 01:35:08.060
She's not, like, hitting me in the pants. She's

01:35:08.060 --> 01:35:09.920
not hitting me in the face. It was here on my

01:35:09.920 --> 01:35:11.760
shoulder where she knew it wouldn't, like, damage

01:35:11.760 --> 01:35:15.920
me. The thing is, is he said, I'm not mad at

01:35:15.920 --> 01:35:19.710
you for that. You know? So, like. Even from him,

01:35:19.729 --> 01:35:21.149
he wasn't like, yeah, you shouldn't have done

01:35:21.149 --> 01:35:26.710
that. He was like, I just was giving you the

01:35:26.710 --> 01:35:30.130
space to feel what you felt and to react how

01:35:30.130 --> 01:35:35.149
you felt you needed to. He's told guys that you

01:35:35.149 --> 01:35:37.430
don't get to tell your wife how she should react.

01:35:38.270 --> 01:35:40.449
If you're going to tell her this, you need to

01:35:40.449 --> 01:35:43.149
give her the space to feel what she's going to

01:35:43.149 --> 01:35:46.229
feel and say what she's going to say. Yeah, I

01:35:46.229 --> 01:35:49.949
did not allow the space for you to be real before.

01:35:50.869 --> 01:35:53.529
No. Because I wasn't. Yeah. But I didn't recognize

01:35:53.529 --> 01:35:55.869
that. Yeah. I had a religious thing on me or

01:35:55.869 --> 01:35:58.470
whatever, an image thing. And so when she was

01:35:58.470 --> 01:36:00.270
real at times, I'm like, all right, well, yeah,

01:36:00.430 --> 01:36:02.449
but we don't, come on, we need to get over that,

01:36:02.470 --> 01:36:04.149
blah, blah. Whereas now it's like, hey, I get

01:36:04.149 --> 01:36:06.390
why you're frustrated. Yeah. I'm there with you.

01:36:06.569 --> 01:36:08.250
That's good. That's new for us, you know? Yeah,

01:36:08.250 --> 01:36:11.649
that's good. So anyway, we're. Yeah. I love that.

01:36:11.649 --> 01:36:13.449
We can go on and on and on, but. Yeah. Yeah,

01:36:13.489 --> 01:36:16.329
thank you guys, too, for opening this up for

01:36:16.329 --> 01:36:19.909
us. We were looking for, like, a way, a place

01:36:19.909 --> 01:36:25.010
to be real and honest. Yeah. And after a while,

01:36:25.149 --> 01:36:27.369
you know, this isn't like something that happened

01:36:27.369 --> 01:36:30.029
to us three months ago, right? After a while,

01:36:30.029 --> 01:36:33.350
when we've worked through things and really been

01:36:33.350 --> 01:36:37.770
walking in freedom, we were like, we got to do

01:36:37.770 --> 01:36:40.430
something for people as much as we can with what

01:36:40.430 --> 01:36:44.000
we have, just our testimony. You know, I'm not

01:36:44.000 --> 01:36:46.399
here to say, I'm amazing at this now. No, like,

01:36:46.479 --> 01:36:49.979
I done messed up, and we've worked through that

01:36:49.979 --> 01:36:52.739
mess. And are still working through it. I know

01:36:52.739 --> 01:36:54.579
how to struggle and keep moving forward. Yeah,

01:36:54.579 --> 01:36:59.359
exactly. Good for you, right? And so, yeah, we

01:36:59.359 --> 01:37:02.979
wanted to just, I want to say thank you for opening

01:37:02.979 --> 01:37:06.460
up this for us and working with us on this. This

01:37:06.460 --> 01:37:09.180
has been, this is really important to us. That's

01:37:09.180 --> 01:37:12.399
good. So if we have anybody out there, any listeners

01:37:12.399 --> 01:37:17.260
that are struggling in this boat. Need help.

01:37:17.399 --> 01:37:22.279
Need help. Have questions. I'm going to encourage

01:37:22.279 --> 01:37:26.479
you guys to reach out. Yes. Reach out to us.

01:37:26.560 --> 01:37:29.460
Reach out to the O 'Briens. Is that cool? If

01:37:29.460 --> 01:37:31.300
you don't know how to get a hold of them, get

01:37:31.300 --> 01:37:33.220
a hold of us, and we will get you in contact

01:37:33.220 --> 01:37:35.100
with them. We'll connect you. Because that's

01:37:35.100 --> 01:37:38.350
what this is about. And there's no, like, we've

01:37:38.350 --> 01:37:41.109
walked this. I'm not going to be shocked if someone

01:37:41.109 --> 01:37:43.270
comes to me. I'm not going to be like, oh, my

01:37:43.270 --> 01:37:46.630
God. No, this is real life. And Levi's not going

01:37:46.630 --> 01:37:48.569
to shame somebody and say, hey, I'm dealing with

01:37:48.569 --> 01:37:50.989
this. Ooh, that's bad. You're supposed to be

01:37:50.989 --> 01:37:52.829
a Christian. Something's wrong with you. No,

01:37:53.770 --> 01:37:57.069
we have walked this out. And it's still something

01:37:57.069 --> 01:38:00.270
we talk about. Because it's like, yeah, we've

01:38:00.270 --> 01:38:02.850
got to make sure that we're still aware of what's

01:38:02.850 --> 01:38:07.229
going on. making sure that he's still being honest,

01:38:07.289 --> 01:38:11.250
that I'm being honest about things. There's no

01:38:11.250 --> 01:38:13.630
shame and there's no judgment. Yeah. Because

01:38:13.630 --> 01:38:16.810
the enemy, he deems you as the weapon that you

01:38:16.810 --> 01:38:19.710
are. You are a weapon at this point. He has been

01:38:19.710 --> 01:38:24.550
found out. You are a weapon. And I'm proud of

01:38:24.550 --> 01:38:27.449
you guys. Thank you. Genuinely. There's nothing

01:38:27.449 --> 01:38:30.189
else to say. I'm proud of you guys. Thanks for

01:38:30.189 --> 01:38:33.930
bringing this into this space with us. Yes. Yeah.

01:38:34.239 --> 01:38:37.819
Thanks for having us. Yeah. All right, guys.

01:38:38.319 --> 01:38:40.859
That was a long one. That was a good one. But

01:38:40.859 --> 01:38:43.939
it was good. Yeah. Anything else, babe? I think

01:38:43.939 --> 01:38:46.619
that everything has been said today. Happy Easter.

01:38:46.800 --> 01:38:49.659
Happy Easter. Let's go eat. Let's go eat like

01:38:49.659 --> 01:38:54.319
chocolate and ham and all the things. Yes. Resurrection

01:38:54.319 --> 01:38:57.220
life. Yes. That's genuinely what this is about.

01:38:57.319 --> 01:39:01.340
It's good. It's resurrection life. And you keep

01:39:01.340 --> 01:39:03.420
saying it, Levi. It's like the freedom, the freedom,

01:39:03.539 --> 01:39:06.979
the freedom. He who the Son has set free is free

01:39:06.979 --> 01:39:10.239
indeed. Yes. Okay? So it's bringing it to the

01:39:10.239 --> 01:39:15.060
light and allowing him to resurrect you out of

01:39:15.060 --> 01:39:19.060
the dark. Yeah. Yes. You guys get to come alive

01:39:19.060 --> 01:39:22.380
again. Yeah. That's good. All right, guys. Have

01:39:22.380 --> 01:39:23.960
the best week. Enjoy the journey.