Hello and welcome back to another episode of Upfront and Undivided with Luke and Dean'na.
Hey babe.
How's it going?
It is wonderful.
How are you?
I'm good.
It's been a rollercoaster of a day.
Dang.
All of a sudden.
Is that bad?
All of a sudden I'm going, what did we do today?
So before we get too far into this, we have special guests.
We do have special guests.
Would you like to introduce the special guests?
I'm going to cry.
Aww.
Okay.
So our special guests, we have Bob and Dawn Cates.
Two of my absolute favorite people in the whole entire world.
Dina's brother and sister-in-law.
Say hi y'all.
Hello.
Glad to be here.
That's my clap machine.
We are stoked that they're here.
We are.
Not the reason why they're here.
Exactly.
And so that's today we on an untimely, I don't know, how do you even explain it?
I'm looking at my brother, like unfortunately our stepmom passed away and we buried her
today and that's why you guys are here for the weekend.
So you get to hang out with us.
Y'all are the happy part of my day.
It's a good part of my day.
And Dawn's here under duress.
I'm just kidding.
Under the weather.
She's here under the weather.
She is under the weather, not feeling good, but I am super stoked that you get to be here.
Thanks for having me.
And we were, pull it towards you a little bit more.
There we go.
No, you're good.
Yeah, you're gonna look like you're eating it.
It's gonna be all right.
I feel like it's across my eyes.
So my big brother, he's my big brother.
I am the baby of the family.
He is my big brother and my sister-in-law has been in my life since I was 13.
I didn't realize that until you said that the other day.
I was like, I guess I have been in your life a long time.
You've literally watched me grow up.
Grow up.
Yeah.
Through some hard and really dumb things.
My sister-in-law knows stuff she will not tell you.
It's just that simple.
We have worked through things.
We've cried together.
We have cried together.
We've always been very honest with each other.
Just honest to a fault.
Not even a fault.
But just like...
Oh, I'd say it's a good way to say it.
And so anyway, you guys have been married for how many years now?
You just celebrated...
36 years.
Congratulations.
And my brother's over there just sitting very quietly, which is not him.
Can you hear me, bro?
Yes, I can hear you.
Okay, good.
36 years.
That's cool.
It is.
Do you guys want to tell us a little bit of background history?
Tell us how you guys met, all the things.
Tell us who you are in your phones.
That was cute.
Well, I'm in my phone.
He's my love.
And in his phone, I'm my sweetheart.
I love that.
She's been my sweetheart for 36 years.
That's sweet.
So we met in the military.
He was a backslidden Christian.
I wasn't a Christian at all.
I can't even say backslidden because I was never there.
Right.
But I was looking for something.
Yeah.
Which we won't go that far back.
Anyway, and so...
We were two broken people.
Very broken.
We were a hot mess.
And then he worked in the motor pool and I worked in service and repair in Germany, Bamberg,
Germany.
And I started dating his friend.
Oh, yeah.
Wait a minute.
Did I know this?
We met at a club.
Did you not know that?
No, I'm sitting in that...
I'm learning stuff today.
We met at a club and it was a guy named Dave.
Well, I was sitting in this room with the cooks and we were all just sitting there having
a beer.
And so they had a plan.
And Dave walked in and was sitting across the way here and I was sitting like in a bean
bag.
And Bob walked in from behind and said, Hey, we're getting ready to go.
And that was the plan.
I did not know there was a plan.
But I never turned around.
But he tells me that this day, he said, Dave said he was gonna get me and he did.
Oh, okay.
But you know, it is what it is.
Yeah.
And we dated for about a month.
And he said, God put in his heart that he was supposed to take care of me, even though
he had never even seen me or met me.
Wow.
And so and then I was like, that's weird.
I always think to this day, I still think that's weird.
Yeah.
But he...
Oh, go ahead, Dave.
During that period of my life, I was like, I was really heartbroken, didn't know what
was life was about.
And I remember me crawling out to God saying, God, if all life is, is a bunch of heartache,
I'll go to the arms room, go to 45, put it to my head and fulfill my destiny and save
a whole lot of heartaches.
This is when I was in the army.
And so I started praying for a friend.
I said, Lord, do you see me a Christian friend?
Because I was going out to the bars every Friday, doing all the things that I wasn't
supposed to be doing.
And I knew the Lord growing up raised in church and I couldn't have fun, you know?
So I was struggling at that time.
So but so go ahead.
Oh, and then so we and we actually went so Dave, I left the room and then Dave came up
to me and says, Hey, you want to go to this club?
Well, then I got to the club.
That's actually when I met Bob.
I couldn't remember his name.
Tell you, he was wearing a red and red, blue and white and red, white and blue ugly shirt.
Crew cut.
I was not attracted to it.
But the first time I did notice him was he but he would always come to the room like
me and Dave would be like in the back room.
And because he was big in a jazz.
So he was always playing, showing me these records of jazz and he would always come down
to the room and visit and he tells me he goes is to make sure you all were doing this is
live and personal, right?
That's good.
But during that night when I was asking the Lord about that, I said I was going to go
to back to the arm to get 45.
I actually had a literal vision.
I hear people say that all the time, but I had a literal vision of a harvest field that
was on the wall and this harvest field caught on fire.
And I sat up and I started pounding on my bunk bed and I said, God protect the wheat,
protect the wheat.
And I went and got a Bible that mom sent me before I went to the army and set my wall
locker for three and a half years.
I never picked it up and I went and got it and I opened it up.
And then the first thing I saw was the harvest is plentiful, but the laborers are few.
Pray to the Lord of the harvest that has sent forth laborers.
And so I started praying and I had some other visions where I saw myself on a fire escape,
reaching to multitudes in the city.
This is things that God was showing me about my future.
But during this time, I still had this personal struggle with sin and alcoholism and all this
stuff.
And God spoke to me and he said, what if I sent you one?
I said, well, Lord, would there be an equal reward to win the multitudes or to win one?
And that's when he sent me Don.
So I knew that I was supposed to take care of her.
He really put that on my heart.
So we started going to church and started doing Bible studies in our own home.
The non-spiritual side.
So he lived with conviction and I did not.
And you can be as real as you want to.
And I didn't have conviction.
Well, I wasn't raised with conviction.
I was like, what are you talking about?
So when we met, he would start calling me names when we would cross the line.
And I was like the worst person on the earth.
And I was like, I don't need you.
You stink anyway.
And so because literally he did.
I worked in the motor pool.
He worked in the motor pool and his clothes would literally be full shoved.
I'm like, how do you anything going to move in here?
His clothes and his uniforms stuffed.
How is water supposed to get in here?
But anyway, no.
But then I don't think mom ever taught you how to do laundry.
I'm not sure she taught any of it.
Wait a minute.
It's fine.
We're not going to throw them all under the bus.
It's all right.
Anyway, but I just, but then, and then I thought, cause he tried to break up with me several
times.
He broke up with me broke up with me on my 20th birthday.
He sent me.
Yeah, I was struggling.
I was just struggling, you know, but then he wouldn't leave me alone.
Yeah.
And then I would tell my roommate, I don't understand this guy.
Right.
Cause he was like, but what it was is like, well, I can have fun by myself.
I've never had a problem with that.
I'm like, I'm going to go watch a movie.
I'm going to go to, cause all we had was Burger King.
I went to Burger King.
I have my car and I was like, you're deuces, you know, no problem.
But then he, he was like, maybe I don't want to break up.
Make up your mind.
But he had already asked me to marry him before that too.
He asked me to marry.
We were in reforger and, but that was when I knew I loved him.
He was, he got very, very sick.
He got like 106 fever.
Well, and he was laying in the back of his deuce and half and he's just sitting back
there and he's just shaking.
And I'm trying to tell the captain, make him go, make him go.
And the captain's like, he's a, he's a grown man.
He can go and he wouldn't move because he was just not feeling good.
And then they made, he finally decided to go.
And so, and they got him, they had to like put three IVs in them.
They got the, it got his temperature down, then back up.
Well, I could never talk to him cause it was like trying to go to a phone with enough Deutschmarks
to talk, you know, anyhow.
And he came out to the field about a week and a half later.
Cause we were out there for about four weeks.
Yeah.
I think that's three, four or three weeks, something like that.
And like two o'clock in the morning, he came out.
He's like, my maiden name is Push.
He's like, Push, Push.
I could hear him.
That moment I knew I loved him.
I was like so happy to hear that he was okay.
That was the moment I knew I loved him.
That was in September.
And then he broke up with me in November.
And then we got married in February.
And so, but anyhow, so that's our beginning story.
Hot mess.
I like it.
Yeah.
It's like, part of me is like, I don't know if I want to say, you know, well, what's the
secret or what are some, some nuggets and jewels that y'all have learned?
And then I also want to say, I think it's hilarious how y'all ended up getting married
in the first place or, or, you know, just getting married.
Cause I recently heard that within the past, I think the last six, nine months, I heard
the whirlwind story of how y'all got married.
Oh yeah.
Cause of his mom.
Yeah.
That's the only reason we got married.
Cause she knew that if he didn't do it, we were, and it was like that.
But now I have learned though, he was raised, not able to make a decision on his own.
They were not allowed to make their own decisions for anything.
So for him to make a decision, because I had paperwork, cause in the military you kind
of have to get approved to get married.
And, and the only reason I had even gone back to this, we were getting ready to go back
to the stage and my sister was supposed to get married.
And then when she decided to get married, we already had tickets to go back to the States.
I already got our leave, you know, approved.
I'm like, so that's what his mom said.
Hey, while you're here, why don't you get married?
We were two young, broken kids.
I say that the key thing, I think just keep working through it.
Keep talking, keep dating.
Cause there was a period of time, there was one year he says he doesn't remember it, but
I remember it like yesterday.
I didn't even like seeing him.
I didn't want to be in the same room with him.
We just weren't getting along.
And we would go, but we still had date nights once a week with a friend.
We would trade off and they would have, we watched their kids, they watch our kids and
that was important.
And I remember thinking I was going to cancel it because we just weren't getting along.
And I was like, I didn't want to be in the same room with him.
And then I remember we were getting ready to go on vacation.
I thought, Oh, we have to sit in this car with him.
We took a trip to like Grand Canyon and we just, I 40 over to California.
And we just weren't getting along anyway.
But we kept on the dates.
We weren't talking on the dates, but we were still sitting there.
You know, we would go to the lake.
We wouldn't talk at the lake.
We wouldn't do anything, but we were still trying.
Yeah.
We were laying a foundation.
Yeah.
I can being consistent in a foundation.
And it's like, even if you're not, I immediately think of like, you're, you're trying to create
a harvest eventually, but you got to sow some seed in there.
And it's like, even if you don't want to be out there and doing the thing, it's, you're
still consistently putting something you're depositing.
I think you guys are really good about that.
You say that to me a lot.
Like you can't withdraw something out if you haven't deposited something in.
And if you guys are depositing even that time, even if you're having a hard time communicating,
you're depositing something and it is going to come back in a good measure as opposed
to.
I think as a kid, or we were young, we thought we knew what love was, but we really didn't
know what love was.
Right.
You know, and it took us a while to get there, but you're right.
We were consistent in that.
Keep dating, keep dating, keep dating.
And we would talk even though we weren't getting along, we were still talking.
So that was something that we just had to work through.
My mom used to tell me that she said, even if you're screaming, you're still talking.
Yeah.
I think that sometimes we've actually used your mom's quote.
Oh, you're not here.
We've used it in here.
That's a good one.
Yeah.
We're like, cause people are like, well, I just can't do this.
Or I just want to yell at them.
Okay, then yell.
Keep talking.
Yeah.
Don't belittle them.
Don't berate them.
But at least as long as you're having a conversation, that's all that matters.
So you said that you didn't, Bobby, you said that you guys didn't know what love looked
like, right?
Yeah.
So tell me what you would, how you would describe that to somebody now.
Like what does that mean?
Well, I can fast forward into 15 years of marriage.
Okay.
Uh, Dawn went on a trip to Mexico for missions and, uh, I knew something was going on in
her heart.
I just, you know, just like, I didn't have all of her heart.
And so I started reading through the book of, uh, uh, I read it was the shack and there
was a part in that book where God took this man to a garden and he started plucking things
out of his heart.
And so I was, Lord was showing me that she went to Mexico and on her trip to Mexico,
that he was going to start pulling things from her heart, start plucking things from
her heart that, and, and so, uh, I asked her one time, I said, I said, Hey, Dawn, do I
have all your heart?
Is something going on within your heart?
And uh, I'll let you go from there.
She's over there in a little bit of tears right now.
I got a tissue right there next to me.
Can you?
I'm all right.
Uh, he didn't have all my heart.
You know, there was a time he just didn't have all my heart, but we got through it.
You know, I'd gone a straight, I didn't have an affair, but I had an affair of the heart.
Yeah.
And I was telling you all that last night, but I had an affair of the heart.
But he said, when he said that, when he told me, um, he says, I want to know everything,
even if it hurts.
I love that.
When he said that to me, I'm like, Oh wow.
He loves me.
Who loves someone that much?
I love that.
They're willing to go through that.
Yeah.
You know, you're going to love me even if I tell you something horrible here.
Yeah.
You know, I mean, I never, you know, I really never, you know, and so.
It could have turned into something had it not been dealt with.
Right.
Yeah.
And so, but I'm glad I, yeah, but we worked through it.
Yeah.
We worked through that, but also during that time, love is patient.
Love is kind.
Love doesn't keep it a record of wrongs.
You know, and I thought, well, to have purity, just pure love in my heart doesn't matter
what she did.
I chose at that time.
I was going to walk with her through it, whatever that might be.
And no matter how much it hurt, because that's what God did for me.
And it was real easy for me to say, but to really to have that in my heart saying, hey,
no matter what it is, I'm going to choose to stick this out and walk with her through
this.
Right.
So that was.
It wasn't an overnight thing.
We cried a lot.
Two o'clock in the morning, a lot of working through it.
Yeah.
Like say that part again.
What's that?
Like say that part again, because I think too many times, like our listeners are just people.
They have it in their brain.
We absolutely can pray and we believe that God can absolutely restore and renew.
Right.
But we know that it takes time.
A lot of days it's, it's breaking the, the mental gymnastics or whatever.
Right.
Just those, those preconceived ideas or the expectations of what we think something needs
to be looking like.
And the whole time it's like, God's just like, I just need you to get me right in the middle
of this.
I need you to be in the middle of this.
I need you to be honest and open and know that you are on the same team and I will get
you to the other side, but it's going to take time.
Yeah.
Well, when I went on this trip, I just felt like I was supposed to go on this missions
trip.
It was a woman's thing.
Yeah.
And I was so dry in my heart.
Like, and I remember being down there, we're supposed to be ministering to women and praying
with them.
And I just didn't have it in me.
Yeah.
I'm like, I'm not going to pray for you if I don't feel that.
And I just was like, and I remember the pastor's wife came up to me and she goes, I'm supposed
to pray with you about something, but not now.
And I didn't say anything.
Oh.
And then they asked like all these, we were, so we were having this conference and they
all start moving forward.
And I kind of stepped back hoping I would just like, like, you know, disappear and then
we'll never all become a flower.
But anyway, so I was like thinking that.
The next thing I know, I don't even know where she came from.
The pastor's wife comes over there, starts praying over me and puts her hand on my heart.
Everything in me broke.
And the whole time Bob's saying, he's texting me because I was in the middle of nowhere
how we got that.
And it was back in the day with the flip phones, his waypoint iPhones.
And I'm like, you know, and he's saying, God's taking you to the garden.
He's telling me all this.
And I'm just not feeling the spiritualness, you know?
But when that lady put her hand on my heart, I broke and she prayed over me and I just
broke.
And if you, I even have pictures of the, you can see those pictures.
Yeah.
I was like, you can tell I'm just drained because I was just so, I cried so much that
day.
And I think that was the day that my love started growing towards us.
It became us again.
My heart was starting to become his again.
Yeah.
You know?
And so, but it, but it took that.
And so, and then even one lady goes, I never seen that before.
And she was an older lady too.
So it was crazy.
I look back at that.
I think that's a vital thing in marriage too is it's really, it's really important that
we not keep things in the dark, you know, because I think the word stronghold is not,
it's not only like you have a stronghold on something.
It's a fortified dwelling place.
It's a, it's like a foxhole.
It's camouflage.
People can't see it.
It's fortified and that's kind of when you don't share things with your spouse, it's,
it's really, it's fortified.
It's in the foxhole.
It can't be seen and the enemy's at work.
So when you go to them and you say, Hey, is there something going on in your life?
And she just had enough to say, yeah, there is.
It, there was no longer a stronghold there.
It was no longer fortified.
Right.
He had to press and press and press.
And I remember laying on the bed, getting almost into a fetal position because he would
not leave me alone.
Yeah.
Not an abusive way.
Yeah.
He was like, there's something going on and I don't know what it is.
Do you remember that?
Yeah.
And then, and then finally I broke and I told him.
And so, yeah.
And then it was brought to the light and then I could start healing.
Right.
The Holy Spirit got to deal with it from there.
Yeah.
And I also think, you know, you think about your kids, you say, I'll run into a burning
building for my kids.
You know, I'm willing to be consumed by the fire for my kids.
But a lot of times when even in our own marriage, we got to say, am I willing to be burned?
Am I even willing to be wronged?
Can I keep going forward with my marriage?
Even if I'm wronged and the Lord was showing me, that's what I'm calling you to.
Even if she burns you, I want you to love her that much.
I want you to be willing to put yourself on the cross like my son did for you.
Yeah.
And so that's, I think that's when our marriage started going forward.
Yeah.
That's true.
Because I think at that point you have, when you have that kind of mentality, your spouse
knows it.
They feel it.
Like, oh, you're in this, thick or thin.
It doesn't matter.
And then it almost shifts something, doesn't it?
Because it's like, I think of Hosea with Gomer, right?
He kept going back and going and grabbing her back and pulling her back because God
said, no, you go take care of her.
No, you go take care of her.
You make her righteous.
You make her better.
You make right.
And it's like when you have somebody that loves you in spite of, who loves you, you
know, through the, right, just all the things.
And it's all of a sudden something like there's a drive.
There's something inside you.
You have, you have all my heart because I can trust you.
Yeah.
Now with, with this part of me that apparently like I've been holding back and you're like,
no, I'm willing.
Like we'll do whatever I can.
I am here.
It's good.
Yeah.
Well, he, and he had a trust issue before this.
Yeah.
I mean, it was bad when we first, I have no idea why I stayed with him at that time because
he would literally think I was as stoned as Jesus.
Yeah.
Well, I would be going to the bathroom and he would follow me because he thought I was
going to go do something.
I'm like, what do you think I'm going to go do?
He just had a really bad trust issues.
But then after this happened, he started healing in that area.
Wow.
That's so good.
Yeah.
That's good, Don.
Yeah.
Because it was then that I knew that love, you can't hurt me.
I love you that much.
It doesn't matter because I'm going to choose to love you no matter what happens to me.
So we're going to choose to work it out.
That's what it came to.
Yeah.
So tell me some things, some things, cause you keep talking about the garden and I love
that.
And all I heard in my head was how do you till your garden?
How do you guys till your garden as far as your marriage?
Because again, I've, I have not been in your marriage, but I get to be one of the, these
people that gets to sit on the sidelines and watch the amazingness of what God has done.
Because this is the part where I, I honor you guys.
You guys are an example in my life.
Like who you have been to who you guys are now to see the things that you guys have overcome
physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually, like all of it.
Like you've given me two amazing nephews and beautiful niece and then all the grand babies
that you guys, you know what I mean?
Like God has so blessed you guys in spite of some of, in spite of some of it, right?
That's true.
And it's like, how do you guys, how have you guys tended to the garden?
What are some of the weeds?
Tell me some of the things.
For me, I think the Psalms 139, it says, search me, Oh Lord, and see if there be any wicked
way in me.
Yeah.
And to genuinely do that, you know, and then just sit alone with him and you look inward.
Like I remember one time I said something sharp to Don one day and the Lord said to
me, how dare you say, I giving you that.
I giving you, she's your gift.
How would it, it's something that simple.
Yeah.
And then was it John 15, it says, if you abide in me and my work, you know, I'm the vine,
you are the branches.
So it's really just abiding in Christ.
And if you abide in Christ, he's the one that does the pruning in your life.
He cuts those, Hey, I shouldn't have said that.
Or I was offended by something today and the Lord just bring those things back into your
remembrance.
That's really tending your garden, just presenting yourself to him every day, every day.
That's how it works for me.
Yeah.
And I've just learned to appreciate for him.
I don't know if I'm going to answer your question, right?
For me, I remember this lady said this to me.
I sometimes just those little bitty things.
Yeah.
And I know, and I'm not saying be a doormat.
Right.
I'm not saying, cause he doesn't treat me like a doormat.
I can testify.
Yeah.
But this lady told me, she goes, she says she, she, she, she, you could complain about
the shoes on the floor or the laundry that lays there, or you could just go pick it up.
I love that.
And you can argue for 45 seconds or you can argue for 45 minutes and yell at each other
and gain nothing.
Right.
And ever since she told me that I was like, that's true.
Yeah.
It really isn't a big deal.
Yeah.
You know, you're making small things big.
Yeah.
And like, why didn't you do this or why?
Cause Oh, I know.
Okay.
So I also heard this one time.
Okay.
I might make sure if I say this right.
Love.
What is it like?
I love something without anything in return.
Okay.
I'm saying it wrong, but it's something like that.
Yeah.
I love him and serve him without expecting anything in return.
Yeah.
You know, that's not the right, I remember the words.
You know what I'm talking about?
Yeah.
That's good.
You're saying that good.
Yeah.
And so I do that.
And I think that people say 50 50 it's 100, 100.
And let's see when, but I think you women, what are we?
We're kind of like, I don't know if I'm, I don't know.
I feel like I'm just fumbling over my words.
You're doing great.
Okay.
No, you're doing great.
So, but we're responders.
Women are responders.
Yes.
You know, but I think if you, but if you're treating him right, they're also the same.
Yeah.
I feel like I'm falling over myself.
I think you did good.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
That's making sense.
But I like that.
There's another scripture, James 3 16, I think it says where,
uh, there's envy and selfish ambition.
There's evil work that's present.
And so when we start getting our eyes on ourself, there's a little bit of selfish ambition.
And I think that's one way we can tend our garden.
If I'm, if I'm more concerned about me instead of serving her or loving her as Christ loves
the church, then there's, there's some selfish ambition.
And that means God's going to have to pluck something from my life because where there's
selfish ambition, there's every evil work and man do, I don't want that in my life and
I can be selfish.
So in order for me to get rid of my selfishness, I got to go to God and say, God wash me of
my selfishness, you know, and that way it can help me wash her as my wife.
Yeah.
I think there was a, there's a story.
I remember when the kids were little and of course he would come home about what five
o'clock ish, you know?
And we would always be in the middle of baths and food dinners and whatever else, but it's
always chaotic that time of day we have small kids.
And he, and I would be like, can you pick a kid and help me?
And he just got off work.
So, and then I think we sat down one day, we just sat, we're like, and a friend of his
was speaking to his life and his wife was speaking into my life, two really good people.
I wish I knew what happened to them.
We, they moved away, but he tells Bob, this is halftime.
So on your way home from work, this is halftime.
And then I had to come to respect, okay, he just needs a little downtime.
Yeah.
So both of us had to come to a respect level, you know, like, so he, you know, to try and,
I mean, and I would say, I'm tired.
I've been doing, I'm, I don't get a minute from these kids, you know?
And I'm like, could you like just take one and wash them, you know, help me here?
But at the same time, I had to respect.
And I think when I approached it, more like serving him, try to have dinner on the table
when he got home.
Yeah.
I'm not so good at that now, but.
We're empty nesters now.
We're empty nesters and half the time, I don't even know what we want.
I have lots of fish in the fridge and I don't know how to cook it.
And he's out most nights.
He works a lot.
He does.
And so that's what I just try to keep.
And then I also, I always think in my mind, I want him to have a soft place to land at
the end of the day.
That's so good.
Yeah.
So I learned to be that for him.
And he, so we came together that that was a good, yeah.
Yeah.
And a lot of times a man can come home and find everything wrong or she didn't do that
one thing.
I mean, he can do 99 things right.
That one thing you didn't do, I can sit there and focus on that one thing or I can say,
wow, I came home, look, she, she washed my clothes.
She did the dishes.
She, whatever that thing might be is to really, to focus in on that.
Don't focus in on that one thing they did wrong, but focus in on the 99 things.
And there were some times you might've done 99 things wrong, but I had to focus on the
one thing that you did do right.
You know, and to, and to focus on that and to build from there on your marriage.
And I think that's what that was.
The bricks that build the, build the house is to be thankful.
Yeah.
That lady had told me she's like, try to have a safe.
And I did try to do better.
Like have the kids bathe before he got home, have dinner ready.
And I, and I got, and it actually does when you cert, when you put your, your heart off
of yourself and onto them, it, it does it somehow.
It makes it better.
Yeah.
It's not about me.
Yeah.
And, and some, and sometimes it is, it's that reminding of, you know, what, what do we focus
on or can I shift my schedule in a little way?
You know, like, like with bathing kids, it's like, could I do it a little earlier?
Could I maybe do it a little later?
You know, it's, it is, it's that, you know, what, what can I shift?
What can we shift to, to help make things go smoother?
Right.
You know, and, and also remembering that this is the season, this, this is the season and
it's true.
And I didn't know that at the time that you think this is my life.
These kids are never going to grow up.
I know they've grown up and I'm like, oh, I have leaves in my front door.
I always think of this one picture and I had, you know, when we lived in Texas, we had this
lot, that long hallway.
Yeah.
It was always full of books and projects and cause my kids never hung up their jackets.
They end up in that hallway.
Within one day it was just leaves.
Yeah.
And those kids grow up and they leave and one time.
She's gonna make me cry through this whole thing.
Yeah.
And the leaves are when you open the front door and the leaves are blowing the house,
but there's no more, there's no more books there.
There's no more projects.
There's no more jackets on the ground.
You know, it's just now it's back.
I remember people saying that, you know, make sure you put your marriage first because it
comes back to you guys.
And I thought that's never going to happen.
And here we are.
And now I'm glad we've built that.
We did the hard way.
Well, we just didn't have a lot, you know.
So yeah, we were hot messes, but I'm glad I'm very thankful.
It was worth it.
Wasn't it?
Yeah, it was.
It still is.
But I know with you guys, because again, you know, Bobby's my brother.
We lived in the same house.
He's seven years older than me, but still.
And knowing firsthand that this was not something that was example in front of us.
Right.
And understanding that you're having to learn this in like, you're going to have to learn
this the hard way.
You have to figure this out yourself on top of breaking off just patterns that are not
healthy and learning how to be a man of God and learning how to be a father and all of
the things.
And so it's like, what would you say to somebody that is coming from a space where they didn't
have that example?
I would say surround yourself with other men who are willing to speak into your life and
be teachable.
And this might sound like a spiritual answer, but it's a truth.
Fall in love with the Holy Spirit.
I mean, and somebody that doesn't know Jesus or know the person of the Holy Spirit, that
might sound like a little off the wall.
But that's really my answer.
It's because all the things I've done wrong, the Lord would prick my heart.
The Holy Spirit say, no, you're not loving your wife as you're supposed to.
You're not-
And I'm not serving my husband as I'm supposed to.
Yeah.
Or, hey, you're making your kids angry.
You shouldn't taunt them to get them angry.
Just little stuff like that.
And open up your heart to people in your life.
Like Luke could come up to me, hey, Bob, man, you shouldn't have said what you said.
And then I would love Luke even more for that because he was walking with me through life.
So that would-
Yeah.
Dawn, same question.
Yeah.
Build yourself around people that you trust that are going to know that you can share
your dirty laundry and they're not going to judge you for it.
Yes.
That's what you know.
But yeah, at the same time, tell you the truth.
Yeah.
It's like, be honest with you.
Find those women, godly women that can speak into your life.
Yeah.
And find older women and listen to them.
Yeah.
Learn from their, you know, that's like I say, that one couple that came into our life,
that was a turning point.
I love that.
And that was where it's safe and I.
Yeah.
I love that.
Find people that will help you sort your laundry.
That's a good way to put it.
I like that.
Yeah.
Help you with your dirty laundry.
So you don't have to shove it all in at once.
Yeah.
Are you better now?
Have you taught him how to do laundry?
He doesn't do it.
It's fine.
And it's okay.
And it's fine.
It's fine.
It's our dance and we're good.
Yep.
Where did that term come from?
A friend of mine told me that one time.
She said, every marriage has their own dance and only they know the steps.
I love that.
I'm like, like somebody wouldn't put up with the things I put up with Bob.
Yeah.
But that's okay.
That's our dance.
Yeah.
You know, that's our dance.
Yeah.
And that's our dance.
Yeah.
And that's our dance.
Yeah.
You know, probably people look at you guys, how could they do that?
You know, but that's their dance.
We do get that a lot.
Yeah.
But it's your dance.
Yeah.
It doesn't matter what, you know, but a friend of mine said that one time I thought that
was a really good saying.
Yeah.
And I remember thinking that about this one lady.
One time I was watching her and I wouldn't, I could, it drove me crazy.
The things that she would let her husband do to her or like put up with.
But I was very young at the time.
So it was very judgmental.
But I look back and go, well, it's her dance.
I mean, they're still married to stay.
Yeah.
But it's their dance.
That's okay.
I mean, as long as it's not causing abuse or harm.
No, it wasn't abusive.
It was just something I wouldn't, you know.
I'm just kind of reiterating it for some of our listeners.
Oh yeah.
As long as there's not.
No, yeah, not abuse.
Any harm.
That's good.
Yeah.
I know some dances, I don't even know the steps, right?
Right.
But Dawn does.
So she'll step up and she'll feel that step for me.
Wow.
And that's, that's our dance.
There's some things that Dawn may not know the steps to, but I know the steps to.
So I'll go in there and I'll feel those steps for her.
It's what works within us, within our marriage.
Yeah.
It's our dance.
I love that.
And now you guys are setting an example for your children and then your grandchildren.
And they're seeing these things.
And so tell me, do you have any questions?
Not yet.
Okay.
I mean, I've tried to ask it.
I want you to ask a question.
No, I know. I mean, I've tried to ask when they come up in the past, like, I just, yeah.
Okay.
But yeah, I don't have anything pressing right now.
Okay.
So it's fun.
It's fun to listen to them.
It is fun to listen to them.
Because as much as I've been around for, you know, 14 years.
Yes.
And I met them.
It was, wow, that was quite the weekend.
Do you want to tell that story?
By all means, tell that story.
A weekend where I felt attacked.
I liked you.
I know you did.
I appreciate that.
I just, I just didn't, I just thought, how's Deena going to afford him?
We had to go buy.
My husband likes to eat.
Yeah.
He likes meat.
Yes.
And I was like, oh, we have to go buy more hamburgers and hot dogs and whatever we were
serving.
Yeah.
It was, yeah.
It was, it was the weekend.
It was your daughter's.
It was a whole week.
Oh, was it a whole week?
It was a whole week.
Yeah.
That's why you got expensive.
That's why I got expensive.
It was an entire week because we had her birthday, two graduations.
Yeah.
That's right.
Yeah.
And, and when we were recording, she prayed that I would have a good job so that I could
feed myself and I got a good job so I can feed myself.
That's good.
But it was, it was, yeah, it was, it was that weekend and it was, I think I had met Jan
already, your guys' mom, but I had never met the boys.
Well, I had met Michael because he was going to church with us at the time, but I had never
met Randy and Bob and I had never met you and all of a sudden you're like opening your
home and, you know, we stayed there and I'm meeting all these people and I'm like, I don't
know what I'm getting into.
I was still kind of a brand new Christian at the time.
Brand new Christian.
Yeah, because you told me you thought you were going to come and drink, drink beer the
whole time.
Yeah.
Because I was like, I was like, well, it's a graduation.
We're going to Texas and this is what I'm used to.
And everybody, you know, all of a sudden, like at the time, Bob didn't like alcohol
in the house.
We were in a dry house.
Yeah.
I'm getting all sorts of dirty looks.
And the hundred piercings.
Oh yeah.
All the piercings and the tattoos and the weird thoughts on life.
And oh yeah.
Yeah.
It was all sorts of good times.
I have grown to love you, Luke.
I appreciate that.
Thank you.
And you don't have to give me $20 later for saying that, but you're a genuine man and
that's what I love about you.
I appreciate that.
Yeah.
I did pretty good.
Yes, you did.
Yeah.
He's good people.
Yeah.
But it's, it's, it's that, um, it's that seeing you guys being consistent again, it's, I'm
giving honor where his honor is due because it's like, I had come out of a really rough
marriage, right?
And then Luke actually coming out of something very similar.
And then me sitting him in front of again, two of my favorite people and saying, okay,
so here's the deal.
Like this is what I am looking for.
I need somebody that love that loves me.
Like this guy loves her like that kind of, cause he gets doe-eyed over you.
It's just so cute.
He does the lip quiver.
His little lip quiver.
It's been quivering this whole time.
It's just so sweet.
When he talks about God or his family.
That's it.
But then it's like, you guys have also, because again, I'm not trying to be all mushy, but
I it's you speaking over Michaela, me speaking over Gabri, you going, hi, gorgeous to get
you to Michaela all the time.
That's how I learned how to speak to Gabri.
I'm glad I was there for you.
You know, it's a hot mess on this side.
I guess I was kind of good.
You know, so it's like, but it, but it's that consistency.
You guys were consistent in the things.
I do not want my kids to have a bad self.
I have a low self-esteem, so I did not want my kids to have a low self-esteem.
Yeah.
Cause I do not.
Yeah.
No, they don't.
And I'm glad they don't because I had, and I still do fight that.
Yeah.
That is still one of my battles and he's always spoken life into me, which I always very much
appreciate.
He's like, stop saying that because I struggle being dyslexic.
I struggle with my, I'm stupid, you know, things like that, you know, and he'll go,
don't do that.
He doesn't.
He's always encouraged me.
Never.
Everyone's put me down.
Yeah.
But no, no, that's good.
Yeah.
What other questions do you have?
Like keep rolling.
Yeah.
I think that's it.
No, it's just.
Yeah.
What, what, what husband would want to put their, their wife?
Come on, sir.
Talk to that.
You know what I mean?
Yep.
Why would they want to do that?
Yeah.
That's foolish.
Yeah.
That's like, I don't know how to say it, but like put manure on, on your, on your spouse.
Come on.
When we're not supposed to do that, we're supposed to wash them with the words that
we speak with the encouragements that we say, who would want to do that?
You know, but once in a while, something will happen.
He'll go, was that a big rock?
I thought that was a big rock.
Tell me what that means.
Like, um, I can't think of a, sometimes I'll get tired and I might say something a little
sharp or something like that.
And it's like, I threw a little pebble at her and it, to me it was a pebble.
And then I'll look at the her facial expression and I'll say, that wasn't a pebble.
That was a boulder.
So now I've got to turn around and say, honey, how big of a rock was that?
She'll say that one hurt.
And I'll have to say, would you forgive me?
You know, then I go, I understand it, but it's still hurt.
You know, I know you're tired.
I know you're hungry or whatever it is.
And I'll look at him and he'll, but he does, he'll try to, he'll like, I've pleased for,
you know, which.
Yeah.
That's probably another thing.
That's not him.
Yeah.
You know, it's humility when you mess up, say I messed up, you know?
And the quickness, the recognition and the quickness of, you know, I mean, again, as
you're said it, you know, as you're saying it, you can feel it like leaving and you see
her face and it's like, Oh, I want to take that back, but I can't.
It already hit you.
So yeah.
But yeah, that, that instant recognition of, you know, don't wait until, don't wait until
after dinner to have this conversation of I'm sorry I hurt you, but you know, right
in the moment of.
Yeah.
I like that.
But you know, 36 years is a long time.
So we've, we've learned a lot, you know, on how not to do things.
That comes with time.
A lot of that comes with like, okay, you're going to still throw rocks here and there.
Sure.
You know, because sometimes something just didn't hit you right or whatever.
I mean, they're very far, very rare, far and few between a lot of our fights.
I think we realized have come with misunderstandings.
Yeah.
I, you hear me say blue, blue, blue, but I was meaning red or vice versa.
What did you hear me say?
Yeah.
I was like, what do you think I was meaning?
Cause and I was like, well, I thought you were saying this.
Yeah.
That's not what I meant.
Yeah.
You know, and he goes, my heart and it means for it to come out that way.
I like that.
So.
And then when my heart did mean it for it to come out that way, I had to be quick to
repent.
Yeah.
Vice versa.
I mean, we're both, we're in this together.
Yeah.
That's good.
No, I love that.
Tell me nuggets.
Tell me, tell me one or two nuggets that you guys would want to leave with our listeners.
Keep talking.
Don't even if you're mad, keep talking, work through it.
Listen, listen to each other.
Yeah.
Someone's saying something.
Be, you know, make sure you're hearing them and have a servant's heart without expecting
anything in return.
I like, I wish I could think of that exact first, that little thing.
I can't think of it.
I'll think of it after this podcast.
You will.
Yeah.
As soon as I hit stop, you're going to be like, Oh.
I would, I would probably say the nugget for me would be, uh, don't get offended.
Don't get offended about anything.
I can walk in the house and begin offended.
Other kids are screaming.
You want to kick the dog, had a hard day at work.
Don't be offended.
Just, just love.
Cause love doesn't take offense to anything.
Love gives it gives, it gives, it gives, it gives, it gives, and it never takes.
And that's hard to do when you're tired or, you know, or sick or whatever you're going
through in that life.
It's hard.
You say, how can I make my home better?
Just go with that mentality.
So I think that would probably be one of my gold nuggets is don't be offended and love,
love, love, love, love.
When you are tired, you just express it.
You have the conversation.
I see it again.
It's like, I watch you guys again.
I've had the privilege of watching from the sidelines and I see how very gentle you guys
are.
I also see how very, um, Nope.
This is what we're going to do.
You guys can be, you know what I mean?
Like being able to say, like, instead of just assuming something of another person, you
guys are very gentle and very, I just watch how you, how do I want to say it?
It's almost like I, I watch you guys command a room, but at the same time, when it comes
to the two of you, I watch both of you kind of just very gently like bow to each other.
Do you know what I mean?
Like just service on purpose, service on purpose.
That's a good one.
Like a service on purpose.
You know, it's, it's, I'm going to take care of you.
You, she, she takes care of you.
You walk in, it's not like you're expecting, but it's at the same time knowing that, Hey,
this isn't getting done.
Don, are you okay?
What can I do for you, sweetheart?
I've watched you, you know, it's like if something, so it's like understanding.
I watch you with my brother, like going through the cancer, going through the stuff, right?
Like he's not okay, but like you going, okay, something you said it, you may not have the
steps for it, but she does.
And you allow her the space to come and step in.
And I think that that's beautiful.
That's that is what has been, uh, whenever the 36, you know, and he's going and doing
his ministry and the things and, you know, you're like, Tina, we were such a train wreck.
And I said, but that's what's so beautiful about your story.
Oh yeah.
Because you guys, because God made such beauty from ashes and watching what he's done in
your lives.
And it's like, because I believe you guys have allowed each other to grow.
You've allowed each other to, um, let go of stuff.
You've you've been humble enough.
And I, it's like, I'm repeating everything that you guys have said, but I, I, I, I, I
do, I want to honor you guys and just say like every, you guys are who you are.
You are true blue.
What you say is what you get.
This is who you guys are.
And my prayer is that people take and glean from you guys.
Like it's time for you to write a book.
It's time for you to write a book about the journey that God has taken you guys through
because you're not an anomaly.
Like there's others out there that need to know how to get through, even if it's, you
know, like a, an emotional affair to get through the, the anger, the stuff, right?
Like to get through the trust, the trash.
That's it.
Right?
Like they, what is like, what does that look like?
How did that?
And we, and we don't have enough time to have that big conversation, but it's like, I believe
with everything in me that you guys have these jewels and that's who we need to be as the
people of God in the kingdom of God.
Because I was telling Dawn, like we got literally people divorcing in churches more so now than
any people out in the world.
Like it's crazy.
The divorce rate, the divorce rate is like off the chart.
And it's, and I believe it's because they're going after the symptoms as opposed to the
root.
Let's deal with the root.
Let's figure this out.
Like that grass is not greener anywhere else.
It's not greener in you.
You need to tend to your garden.
Man, I loved, I love that.
Like tend to the garden, you know, figure this out.
Don't stop and then stay consistent and then do the hard.
I love that you're, you guys are telling, you know, like we're up till two and we're
just, we're talking about the hard.
Get into the hard, know that it's only hard for a minute, but it'll start getting easier.
Bringing it to the light.
You can't keep things in the dark.
Yeah.
Cause as soon as I did, it was like, as soon as we started talking about the dark, yeah,
that I was bringing to the light, it did.
It started, it just started blooming.
Yeah.
We were started healing.
It allowed me to, it allowed me to trust again too.
See?
That's awesome.
And that was a two sided cooling.
What happened with her helped, like come on.
How much are we leaving each other bound if we don't deal with the things inside of us?
We're, we're literally binding the people around us by, by our own insecurities, our
own faults, our own failures, our own stuff, as opposed to just, man, let me just get this
out.
You know, because once you bring it to the light, like you said, Dawn, like it loses
its power.
Yes.
It's the stronghold starts.
It's like, Oh, I've been found out.
Shoot.
You know, I got, Oh crap.
Okay.
Well, I'm going to scurry off now.
Well, it hurt me that I would, for me, I was like,
I didn't want to hurt him.
Sure.
I mean, I remember just like, I didn't want to, cause I felt like if it came out, I would
hurt him.
Matter of fact, I was like going to church and I was like worshiping and I was trying
to every, I was trying to fight it myself.
Yeah.
And he was like, something's not right.
We were going to CFNI on Friday nights, like worshiping.
And I was, I was trying to CFNI is Christ for the nations.
It was a Bible school.
We went to in Dallas.
Yeah.
But yeah, and then we, I was trying everything to do it myself and it wasn't working.
It was just heavy on my heart.
I was trying to, God helped me.
I was trying to go through a book that it was the one that you took with Jason.
Every man's battle.
Oh yeah.
Every man's battle.
They have an every woman's battle book.
I love that.
And I was trying to go through that book by myself and you, and you do, you need people.
Yes.
You need positive people in your life.
People that can, yeah.
Keep your feet to the fire.
But I was trying to do that still all by myself.
Yeah.
It wasn't working.
You can't do it by yourself.
I was fighting this battle thinking I can make, I can figure this out.
But, and he knew, he knew something was going on, but he just didn't know what, and this
went on for months.
Yeah.
I said about three or four months, maybe even a year.
I don't know.
It was a long time.
Yeah.
And then finally it then went, but sure enough, soon as it came out, sorry.
We got through it.
And it's so worth it.
It is.
It's nice when you're on the other side.
Yeah.
It really is.
I don't say that to be mushy.
No.
It's good.
We're in a good place.
We're in a really good place.
It's a love that I've never experienced before and it grows more every day.
And it really does.
Yeah.
And that's a true statement.
Yeah.
You make his heart pitter patter.
He makes my heart pitter patter.
I truly do.
I love him more and more every day.
If you can love another person more and more every day, you can.
I do.
I don't know what happened, but-
There's some days I want to put a knot on her head, but most days... I'm sure it's
vice versa.
Yeah.
I don't have that feeling to do it all.
Probably more vice versa sometimes.
There are days.
No, it's good.
You guys are away from each other a lot.
My big brother has a really cool business that unfortunately gets you on the road a
lot.
So out of the 20 plus years that you have been doing this business, how do you guys
keep this really great, mushy love alive?
We flirt a lot.
I love that.
We do.
We flirt on the phone.
Yeah.
So we'll call each other and stuff like that.
We still flirt.
Yeah.
And when we're together, we make it count.
Yeah.
I love that.
We make sure that, yeah, we do.
She truly is my best friend.
I can truly say that.
I always say the worst thing and best thing about us is that we like being around each
other because we get nothing bad together.
One of your listeners right now might be saying, I can't say that about my spouse right now.
They're truly not my best friend.
In fact, I don't even like them right now.
Yeah.
And they're doing that.
And that's what we had a journey through.
I mean, there's times I didn't like her at all.
Yeah.
But you got to work through it and you got to choose not to be selfish.
You got to choose to serve.
You got to choose to keep speaking life over them.
That's the thing that'll make it grow.
You got to water the tree.
You can't take an axe to the tree and start hitting it.
You got to water it.
You got to water it by God's word.
You got to water it by words of affirmation.
Just even flirting.
That's watering the tree also.
And praying together, even praying together.
They say that praying together is even stronger than intimacy.
I agree with that.
Yeah.
I remember at CFNI, they would say, be careful when you're praying with the opposite sex.
I agree with that.
Because that is almost stronger.
And I love it when we pray together.
I really do.
It's like, take my hands every morning and pray with me.
We try to.
We're not always good at that, but we try.
Yeah.
I mean that.
And I even put it out, we have a room now.
We try to make it our prayer room.
Yeah.
And so, but that's true.
I love that.
That's awesome.
Do you have anything else?
No, that's it.
I like them, yeah.
They're cool.
We should keep them.
We're cool.
Did you say we're cool, baby?
I thought we were old.
Old and cool.
Yeah.
I appreciate you guys.
Oh, well, thank you for having us.
Yeah, this was fun.
This was fun.
I'm looking forward to their book.
Yes, their book's going to be amazing.
It's going to be a bestseller.
Yes.
They're going to change so many lives.
Listen.
They're going to be the same thing they already have.
Sir.
All right, guys.
Have the best week.
Enjoy the journey.