Hello and welcome back to another episode of Upfront and Undivided with Luke and Dean'na.
Hey babe.
Hi babe.
How's it going?
It's good.
I was like, oh, don't look at you this time.
Just in case.
Just in case you forget who we were.
I know, right?
That was weird.
I don't know.
And you notice I'm sitting in the same space that I did the other day.
And I was like, okay, I am trying to get myself into a habit of being in this space.
Because it's like, because you said this is where you want me, right?
Yes.
For not just you and I, but for me and the girls in the real.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, that's where you're sitting now.
And I know this is going to make a lot more sense when people do see video and probably
pictures of where we sit and our setup and all.
But where you're sitting now is where you normally sit.
Correct.
With, in the real.
So I think it was just one of those things that I think initially, initially my thoughts
are because the three of y'all are the biggest group show.
Oh, okay.
I'll say.
Okay.
Kind of like plan to shoot y'all.
Okay.
And then pare it down for smaller and smaller.
Okay.
You know, so it's like, so if we can get the three of y'all.
We can master the three of us, then everything else is gravy.
Right.
Yeah.
Because we get the three of y'all and then it's the two of us.
Yeah.
And then if there's any solo recordings.
And when you get yours moving again.
Yep.
Yeah, I know.
I made you yawn, didn't I?
I'm sorry.
Y'all heard sparks.
That was sparks yawning.
But then also if we can get to the point where the three of y'all are getting recorded, then
that could possibly also be good for filming, like if the two of us interview another couple
again.
Ooh, yes.
Yes.
So.
Yes.
No, I like that.
That's my goal because right now we have four microphones.
Yeah.
And so it's, can we, I mean, right now we can't, but eventually we will be able to capture,
video capture all four participants.
Yeah.
No, I like it.
I like it.
Until we grow into a bigger space and I get a bigger board and.
And then our tiny sound man.
Yes.
You're my silent sound man for in the real.
And then we can have now a tiny sound man.
Yes.
Little man sound man.
Yes.
For us.
Yes.
When we start training him.
Yes.
Because Sebastian wants to learn.
He does.
And I love that.
I think that's fantastic.
And we just need to get that beautiful girl of ours on board on our social media.
Yeah.
And then we can have a little family business going on.
That would be fun.
I think so.
I would enjoy it.
Yeah.
That's just me.
I'm mom.
It's fine.
I go, Ooh, something my kids can flourish in.
Let's do that.
Yeah.
Anyway, how are we?
There's a lot.
Yeah.
I know we were earlier, we went to the grocery store.
Yes.
And we had the fact that this is getting recorded the day after we prefer to release these.
Correct.
But it's just between life happening and it's like, I don't want to sit here and name off
all the things that we've got going on, but it's like, I know our audience would probably
appreciate it.
Sure.
But your dad and stepmom or well, your stepmom is having some health issues and she's battling
some stuff.
And I think we're going on what week two now she's been in the hospital.
I think so.
Yeah.
Because wasn't it like on a Wednesday or something that you and I took off?
I think it was.
Yeah.
So yeah, we're going or is it a week, two weeks?
No.
Two weeks.
It's two weeks because the first surgery she had already been there for almost a week.
Interesting.
Yeah.
So if you guys could pray, yeah, pray for my stepmom because apparently she also had
a stroke that is affecting her left part of her body right now.
So two surgeries and a stroke.
Yeah.
And they're not quite sure when they're going to let her out.
And yeah, checking on my dad.
You guys got to understand, like my dad's in his 80s and I think my stepmom's like if
she's not in her 80s, she's high 70s, early 80s.
So not spry, but not done.
So there's still a lot of life to live and we need to just continue to pray strength
and health and wisdom for the doctors, physical therapy, miracles.
We're all for the miracles.
Oh yeah.
And just trusting God to work all things out and give my dad just peace of mind and rest
that it's not heavy on him.
I'm genuinely asking the things that I've been praying here in the middle of the night
or when I wake up in the morning, it's usually, father, if you could just carry my dad today,
that would be great.
Yeah.
Just kind of carry him.
Yeah.
Because we can feel the difference when God kind of carries you in a situation as opposed
to when you're having to trudge through and it's like, you're still in the midst of it.
You're still in the midst of the battle.
You're still in the midst of the mud.
Yeah.
But yeah, there's a difference when he carries you and guides you through it as opposed to
you doing it and taking it kind of by yourself.
So we've got that going on.
We just found out some friends have had some news.
So me and another friend of ours took off today to the hospital to speak the word of
God over there and remind them hope.
They actually hope was already in the room, which was beautiful.
It was beautiful in the midst of tragedy when you have your source and where your source
lies, instead of getting angry at God in the midst of the circumstance, it's you grabbing
hold of him and allowing him to grieve with you and get you successfully to the other
side.
So we pray for them too.
So it's just kind of a lot.
It's just a lot.
Yeah.
And just changes and shiftings in our lives and new schedules and stuff at work and stuff
at church.
I'm working up at the school more and doing all the things and it's just-
Again, not like bad things.
No.
It feels like a lot of shifting.
Yeah.
It's learning how to maneuver.
The best way I can describe it is, and I think it pertains to this situation too, it was
a husband and wife that we went to go take care of today and looking at the husband and
saying, I remember distinctly talking to a family member that had lost their spouse and
you and I got a chance to kind of just be still with them for a second and be like,
how do you do this?
So how are you doing?
How do you do this?
And their response was, I ride the waves with God.
I let him help me ride the waves.
And it's like the waves of the joy, the waves of the anger, the waves of the emotions, the
waves of the heaviness.
When we almost surf those waves with God, sometimes we're walking on the water.
Sometimes we're literally drowning, almost drowning and he just grabs us.
Some days we feel like we're body surfing and we're like, whatever.
And then there's other days it's just like you're floating and he's carrying you.
So it's like, that's kind of how it feels right now.
Just like, okay, father, what's the next thing?
Because I like as we're shopping, grocery shopping, I'm looking at you and I'm saying,
and today, today school got canceled.
And so I was going to, you know, I worked out and then I was going to go clean and then
heard this, the news about our friends.
And so instead of doing that, we dropped everything and then went and loved on them.
And it's like, just letting God move you in those moments as opposed to, you know, again,
walking with him and letting him carry you or walk with you, just walk you through it,
walk with you.
It just, it hits different.
So I came home heavy, a little heavy, but it's understandably, but at the same time,
full of hope, full of hope, full of peace, knowing that God is very much on the throne
and in control.
So that's where we've been.
Not to be Debbie Downers or anything.
Again, nothing to be down about.
It's just life is shifting.
We're in a new transition, a new season in our family and our jobs.
Yeah, like you said, everything.
I'm repeating it.
That's fine.
Do you know what we're talking about today?
I do.
Oh, okay.
I mean, unless you want to talk about something else.
I don't know what we're talking about, but I'll follow your lead.
It's been a second since we've gotten into that where it's like, what are we talking
about today, babe?
I mean, I was actually going to go back to what I originally was going to talk about,
what we were originally going to talk about last episode.
Oh, that we bypassed.
But last week was so good.
Like I've actually gotten quite a few people come up to me and say, wow, that was really
good guys.
I was like, oh, thank you.
Well, thank you.
That's just us talking and just being real.
Cool.
Yeah.
So anyway, I liked that we bypassed it.
So what are we talking about this week then?
So I know a lot of times we talk about flags.
And warning signs and a lot of people, I'm trying to not say red flags right away, but
I eventually want us to talk about red flags.
Because I know this has been a discussion just from stuff we see about how people treat
their marriages and how people treat relationships in general, even before they get into a marriage.
And you've used the phrase when we have talked about this, when this topic has come up, you've
used the phrase when is enough enough.
So it's like, I almost want to say, it's like I was toying and playing with how red does
that red flag need to be?
Or at what shade of red does it become a bad sign versus a good sign?
No, it's OK.
It's like it's beige.
It's beige.
It's like, no, that's red.
That's a shade of red.
Right.
It's pink.
It's just who they are.
They're going to be OK.
It's like, no, no.
I can change them.
No, no, can't.
Yeah.
So.
Only God can.
Yeah.
But it was like, I think I just, it's like, I wanted to kind of touch on some of those
things.
OK.
No, it's good.
I know it's I know a lot of times we talk about, you know, it's like, yes, we talk about
some of the hard.
Yes, we talk about some of the difficult.
We talk about some of the good.
Yeah.
The blessings.
You know, but it's like, I know we talk a lot.
I know we've talked in the past.
I don't know how much we've talked about it on the podcast, but we've talked about.
Like premarital counseling.
Yes.
Stuff.
Yes.
You know, and like, I know a lot of churches are good with premarital counseling, but I
know that we've also talked to some couples where, you know, premarital counseling is
just a handful of meetings.
Right.
And it's like, does that really prepare you for marriage?
Does that really look at somebody's relationship and what you're really getting into as far
as, you know, hey, you're you're about to spend the rest of your life with this person
about to spend, you know, every decision, whether consciously or unconsciously, whether
spoken or thought.
Right.
Every decision is going to be going across that person.
Right.
Every, every action will affect that person.
Right.
You know, everything.
Yeah.
You know, even if you're at work, your spouse is nowhere near you, what you do at work is
going to affect your spouse.
That is correct.
You know, and it's like some of those questions of are you really ready to get into a marriage?
Are you ready to get into a serious relationship?
Right.
You know, it's like they your person does this now.
Is this going to be an issue?
Right.
You know, is this a deal breaker?
Right.
Is this a deal breaker?
Or, you know, hey, it kind of bothers me now, but I can sweep it under the rug because I'm
sure I'll get used to it after four, five, 10, 15 years.
And it's like, will you though?
Right.
You know, and it's so it's so it's like those things.
So it's that kind of.
Yeah.
So I remember when we had this conversation.
So I went back onto our feed.
Yeah.
And I, I know we did not, we did not do an episode of this.
I just posted something.
I did post something.
And can I read it real quick?
Yeah.
OK.
So one of the latest conversations Luke and I are talking about and kicking around is
when is enough enough?
OK, so here we are.
Here we are.
We are huge believers and people can change and lives can get better.
OK, so interjecting onto myself, we are products of people that can change and lives that can
get better and be restored and redeemed.
Right.
Marriages can get better.
But what if they don't?
What if the person in the relation?
What if the person in the relationship won't?
What if the toxic toxicity is that city?
Thanks, babe.
Yep.
Is so ingrained or the abuse is so severe.
That it's harmful to you and those you love?
Or why are you waiting to see if and when it does get severe?
What if this is where God says enough is enough?
If you find yourself making excuses.
Making excuses.
OK, instead of making changes, I'd say you're walking into the place of enough is enough.
If you find yourself going around and around and things aren't getting better, what if
things are getting better or you see them slowly digressing?
I pray you have the courage and the wisdom to say enough is enough.
Yeah.
And I think that's what it is.
It's the looking at the situation.
Looking at how this person acts.
What do they say?
How do they say it?
If you're having a bad day, how does this person react to you having a bad day or to
you making a mistake?
And those times where you...
The trusted friends and family members that are around you, because if you don't have
trusted friends and family members around you, find them.
Find them.
Find them now.
Like you say that with urgency and it's true.
It is.
It's very true because as much as you may or may not...
As much as you think that you have just met Mr. And or Mrs. Wonderful.
Just or, not and or, just or.
That's another podcast altogether.
But as much as you may think that you found your perfect 10, your one, your forever and
always.
If you don't have people around you that can confirm, can be a second year, that could
be a red flag in my mind.
To a degree, because again, you need that circle around you just in everyday life.
Like sounding boards.
I would say like a sounding board because again, you and I have been married before
and had I heeded...
I had people around me.
I did not heed the warnings.
I didn't.
I was bent.
I said, nope, this is how I'm going to do it.
This is what's going to go down.
Nobody's going to tell me nothing because I'm grown now.
And I'm serious.
I'm sincere.
And it just, it breaks my heart and makes me want to throw up when I think of this.
But I've also learned that sometimes it's horrible, but in these red flags, sometimes
that red flag has got to fly so hard and so high that it literally will only take the
hand of God to absolutely get you out of that situation.
Because otherwise, if I had not heard audibly, this is probably less than a handful of times
I've ever truly believe I hear, I have heard the voice of God.
If I had not heard audibly, get out.
Or no, I'm sorry.
It's time to go.
That's what he said.
It's time to go.
Wakes me up at like three in the morning, five in the morning.
It's time to go.
And if you don't understand and get out in that space, it very well could cost you.
It could be so detrimental.
Sometimes it could be something, and I do not take this lightly at all.
It could be you being cut off from your family.
This person has decided that, hey, it's either me or them.
This is how we're going to do this.
It could be, which that in itself is horrible.
It could be something of the nature of they're so possessive and so you can't go anywhere
without either without me or you have to constantly check in, check in and not a healthy manner.
Because you and I check in with each other all the time.
There's a difference.
There's a difference in that.
And so it's like, it can cost you your freedom.
That being said, if you continue to move down a certain path, if you see anger issues, if
you see them throwing fits or throwing things or throwing hands, that is a pretty good size
red flag because ultimately it could cost you your physical health or it could cost
you your life.
I mean, I'll say, because we're thinking about this, we're talking about this and it was
like, I was thinking back and for my first marriage, I did not have anybody around me.
You know, yes, there were probably enough red flags, but I frankly didn't care at the
time.
But yeah, I really didn't have anybody around me.
I was flying solo.
Like even my closest friends and family were half the country away.
Wow.
Yeah.
You know, so yeah, I had nobody.
But you know, I learned.
And I want to say, you did.
Relatively unscathed.
You know, but it is, it's, it's, you need that, you need that sounding board because
it is.
But they're going to see something that you are probably going to pass over.
You know, either through rose-colored glasses or, oh, it's not that big of a deal.
It'll, it'll be fine.
Or again, it's one of those things that, you know, those people in your corner that are
also going to pray for you, you know, that, that are going to make sure that you're covered
in prayer and that, you know, that you are, you know, I'm listening and, and, and being
obedient and all that in your walk, not just in your walk as, as a couple, but in your
walk as an individual.
Yeah.
Singularly.
Yeah.
You know, because I know that when we got together, you had your, your powerful praying female
friends.
I had a, I have a posse.
Yeah, you did.
Yeah.
You know, and, and then it was kind of the other way around.
I, I always, always, always laugh because you would always, you, you got it from your
mom, I believe.
I think that's what you said that, you know, she would always pray God, if this isn't it,
yeah, take it away.
That's it.
You know, and then you would do that to your friends.
And one woman eventually looked at you and said, I need you to stop praying.
Yeah.
Cause I keep getting boyfriends and they keep leaving me.
Yeah.
Which it's, it's funny cause it is, it's like, um,
Listen, for my friends out here that actually do listen to us, right?
Yeah.
If you ask me to pray for you, just know that I'm going to pray for you.
Yeah.
Like I, I will not, you, you are not allowed to come in here and tell me how you want this
to be prayed.
You know what I mean?
And it's, and it's not for any other reason, except I love you enough to tell you the truth.
I love you enough to war in a position and in a place to where I can look at you and
say, no, no.
You got this twisted.
You have this, or you're looking at it from a perspective as opposed to the whole picture.
And I had enough friends around me that, that, that do that for me, that did that for me
and that do that for me.
Because it's like, even though I don't have the same posse of friends, I call them my
posse.
That's so funny.
Um, is my posse.
Um, even though I don't have the same friends that I did there, they are still my friends.
Let me say it that way, but they're not in my close, they're not in my close physical
sphere.
Right?
I know I could call any one of them at any given time.
Like I know that.
Right.
And, um, but God's also gifted me with other people now to where we're in a new space in
our lives and in our walks and they get to call me higher.
Yeah.
Like in places to where I get to be a better wife, I get to be a better mother, I get to
be a better woman of God, a woman of God first before anything else.
Cause if we fix that, baby, if we fix that woman of God situation, everything else gets
to just kind of line in.
Right.
But it's like, and I think, I think that that would be probably one of the things that I'd
really want to talk about and unpack a little bit with you on this, because it's like, we
talk about the red flags of the people.
Right.
What are some of the red flags that you would see in a person that, that you would say,
Ooh, you might want to double check that.
I, I want to continue on that, but I also want, can we talk about just a little bit
of the person on the other side that sees the red flags, but they don't want to acknowledge
it?
Like I want to speak to that a little bit.
Like I want it because I'll speak for myself.
You and I are talking about our past.
We're talking about who we were somewhat to a, to a point, right?
That we saw all the red flags in our, our ex spouses.
What was going on inside of us that caused us to say, I see them, but I, I'm going to
continue to move forward in it.
What do you think?
Why, why do you think people will dismiss a red flag?
I mean, I'll say low hanging fruit.
I'll say the easiest one of the easier answers is there's a lot of people out there that
do not know their own worth.
They don't know the value that they carry inside of them.
Right.
You know, whether it's life has, has beat them down enough or, or whether their upbringing
has squished them down under the thumb.
It's like, well, this is, this is what I deserve.
I mean, unfortunately we know somebody in real life that we've interacted with that
we hear all the horrible things about the relationship she's in.
Right.
And it's like, why would this person do this?
And it's like, you learn a little bit more about this person's past.
And it's like, dang, they didn't have a fighting chance.
I mean, they did.
They did.
If, if, if, if they went to God, they would have a fight.
Absolutely.
But it's, it's one of those things that it's like, if this is what you know, come on, babe,
that part, if this is what you know, then this is what you're going to go after.
Right.
And even though, you know, it's like the thing that is hitting me and I'm probably going
to say it wrong, but it's that it's almost like that verse that a dog will return to
its vomit.
You know, because a dog doesn't know better.
Yeah.
That's what they're familiar with.
Yeah.
You know, and it's, you know, if, if you've always been taught, you know, that, you know,
especially a woman, you know, if you, if you were raised from a little, as a little girl
that the husband is going to be an alcoholic, that's verbally abusive, emotionally abusive,
and at times physically abusive towards your mom, then you're going to assume that's how
it is supposed to be.
Yep.
And the only time you got attention was when you were getting belittled.
You're going to assume that's how I get attention.
This is what a marriage looks like.
Right.
And then when they go, they become an adult and they go from relationship to relationship
with alcoholic abusers, you're going to be like, oh my gosh, what's wrong with you?
Just stop.
And they're going to be like, this is, this is it.
This is what I know.
Yeah.
You know, and it's like, as much as you want to shake them and say, stop the cycle, your
heart breaks for them because that's all they know.
Right.
You know, and it's, so it is, it's, I, I, that, I think that's going to be my first
answer as to why do people ignore red flags?
Yeah.
Is because they don't know their worth.
Yeah.
No.
There's also that part of me that says, um, is there a familiar spirit?
Is there something that you're, again, it's knowing your worth, maybe that's what you
were raised around, but also I think, is there something inside of you?
Like do a heart check?
Is there something inside of you that creates, well, let me think my thoughts through cause
it's going to kind of almost sound bad.
Like, um, do you attract incredibly horrible people?
You know what I mean?
And um, is, is there, we, we hear with women like the bad boy syndrome and it's like, it's
exciting and oh, they're mysterious or this is a little, you know, they're a little dangerous
or all of the things, bad girl syndrome too.
I mean, I think guys kind of think that's cool too with the girls, like a little bit
more, Ooh, she's a little, you know, something's different there.
But I think ultimately what happens is you see a destruction like, and then there's ultimately,
um, like it can get scary.
Like it can get like really, really scary.
And it's like, is, is there, is there a little bit of something inside of you that says I'm
kind of attracted to the bad boy?
I'm kind of attracted to how, how he makes me feel like that a little bit.
And again, I'm speaking out of an experience, you know, just like it's, it's, it's that
weird space.
And it's like, I know everything that we're going to be talking about literally goes back
to our identity and how we see ourselves and what our worth is.
But part of me is like, let's keep kind of just going a little bit higher because I think
sometimes people go, Oh, well, I know who I am.
You know, I'm a child of the most high God and I'm a Christian or, you know, I'm a great
person and there's nothing wrong with me.
And I want to go, but look at what's going on in front of you.
Are you having to make excuses?
But sorry.
It's okay.
I also want to say like when you're, when you're saying that, you know, though I'm the child
of the most high God, I'm a child of God.
I'm you know, I'm this in, you know, it's like, it's like with our children, you know,
it's like, you know, who are you?
I'm, you know, I'm a child of God.
What are you?
I'm strong, mighty, brave, and I can do anything.
And I put my mind to.
And it's like, when people are rattling that off to say, Oh no, I know who I am.
I know my worth.
It's like, but do you know that?
You can say it, but do you know it?
Or you can say it, you can know it, but are you being it?
Are you following through?
Are you living the life out loud that you that you are you portraying what it is that
you're saying?
Yeah, that's pretty good.
That's pretty good.
Yeah.
I didn't mean to rhyme, but that was cool.
But it's like it is.
It's like, are you being that person?
Yeah.
Because if you feel like you are somebody that has to make excuses, if you feel like
you're somebody that isn't completely living your life honestly in a space that you feel
like you can't be completely honest, you can't be you can't share.
Right?
Like we're huge on communication.
We're huge on trust.
We're huge on on like, let's have a conversation.
Right?
Let's talk about this.
If you cannot talk about your relationship with your bestie, with your mom, with your
dad, with the people that are around you, somebody that you trust, if you cannot, like,
hey, how are you and Dina doing?
You know, you know what?
You know, we're we're doing all right.
We're doing you know, we're doing pretty good.
And or you just or you go the opposite like of man, everything's wonderful.
We're doing we're overcoming everything's doing great.
You know, we're on this journey.
We're doing all these, you know, we're working some things out and all this stuff.
And all inside of you, everything inside of you says,
Why don't you tell them the truth?
Tell them the truth.
Tell them tell them how you're scared.
Tell them how this wasn't what you signed up for.
Tell them the truth.
Tell them that wow, you know, who they said they were, what they portrayed before we got
married and who they are now are not the same.
Like, they used to have all night worrying about finances and bills, right?
Like those things.
I fear for my safety.
I feel for fear for my welfare.
I haven't seen my children.
I'm estranged from the people that I love because XYZ.
Like, like, tell them the truth.
Tell them the truth because a number one, you're already losing ground.
Like, we lose ground with people when we're not honest.
You know, like, do all marriages hit spots?
Yeah.
In the the initial thing that I read that I wrote, like, way back, actually, it was
like the 14th of December.
Yeah.
If you feel like you're literally going around and around the same mountain, if you've constantly
are separating or you're saying I'm filing for divorce or I'm screaming or I'm saying
I'm not going to do this anymore.
Like it's like every week or every other week, you're having the same argument, the same
argument.
And there's no resolution.
There's no it's just constant conflict.
Maybe maybe step back.
Yeah.
And again, you and I believe with everything in us that, yes, God can restore things.
Okay.
But here's the revelation.
This is one of our friends, our sweet friends gave me this revelation one day and she just
looks at me and because she says my first marriage, she goes, I kept I she goes, I kept
yelling like, God, you know what, what you've put together, no man can separate.
And he goes, I didn't put that together.
Yeah.
You did.
And it's like, Chuck yourself.
It's okay for you to say, you know what, dang it, I blew it.
I blew it.
Yeah.
I messed up there.
This, this is not, we are not giving people license to go run around and take, get divorced.
Like this is a completely different podcast than our episode that I know that we've talked
about before because we are, we're huge advocates of saving marriages.
Yeah.
And we don't believe that every marriage was absolutely ordained by God.
Yeah.
And he doesn't have any obligation to bless your mess.
Right.
Yeah.
I'll also say to kind of go back to the, why did you overlook this?
Yeah.
The reason I didn't go back to this at all is, you know, I know you've, you, you introduced
me to the term missionary dating, you know, the whole, you know, it's, I can change them.
You know, and I think, I think a lot of it is, you know, it's like, well, they're wild
and free now, but you know, as soon as we get married, it'll settle down.
Right.
You know, when we get married, this behavior will change.
When we get married, this behavior will change.
When we get, when we have kids, this behavior will change.
And you know, we've, we've seen relationships like this.
We've seen marriages like this.
Yeah.
I unfortunately knew a gentleman in, not a gentleman, some guy.
It's like, I don't want to talk nice about him, but I don't want to totally trash him.
But I knew this person, this individual when I was in college in my fraternity.
And it was, it's like almost everybody knew he was a sleaze ball.
And it's like the people above us were like, well, if we, if we, if we let them get to
this point, you know, maybe he'll get better.
And then, well, what if we, if we let him get to this point, maybe he'll get better.
And what if we get to this point, you know, if we, if we let them go to this, if we do
this, if, you know, if we let them become a member, oh, he's talking about going into
the, to the national guard.
If he goes into the national guard, he'll become a better person.
If he does this, he'll become a better person.
And he never did.
Right.
Nobody held him accountable.
I wouldn't trust him to watch a slice of bread.
Dang, babe.
Oh yeah.
Shoot.
Yeah.
He was a, just use the word.
I don't want to say, I don't want to, no, it's like, I just, it's like, I want to say
he's, he was just a dirt bag of a human.
That's true.
And he was just, he was sleazy.
Yuck.
He was creepy.
Ew.
Yeah.
And it's like, to the point where it's like, I don't even want to say this out loud, but
it's like, he was accused multiple times of date rape.
Yeah.
That level.
Yeah.
Yucky.
Yeah.
And I found out later that the officers of the house found out about the accusations.
And didn't do any.
Yep.
And then they yell all guilty.
That's not okay.
Yeah.
That's gross.
And again, I didn't, this is stuff I didn't know.
I didn't find out about until after.
Until later.
Until after.
Sure.
I was like, it's like, I knew he was a dirt bag, but it's like, he was even more of a
dirt bag.
Awesome.
Great.
Thanks.
Appreciate it.
Yeah.
And you just let me in with them.
Cool.
Yuck.
Sweet.
Yeah.
Cause him and I joined at the same time.
Yucky.
Yeah.
And there's those times where it is, it's, you know, I mean, I remember like my first
marriage, it's like we did, I'm so silly.
I am so weird.
It's like when we first got married, it was like a pagan witchcraft ceremony in her friend's
backyard.
And part of her vows was like, she admitted that she was not going to be faithful to me.
And it was like, surely that's a joke.
Surely that's a joke.
She told you.
Because it, it had never come up before.
Wow.
And it had never been even suggested before.
And it was like, surely that's a joke.
But yeah.
Yup.
Wasn't a joke.
This is like, everybody's like, I really wish you guys had video right now to see our faces.
Yeah.
Like you tell this story and I'm just like, dang baby.
This is not the first time I've heard this story.
No, no, no.
We've heard this story before.
Yeah.
First time y'all are hearing the story.
Yeah.
Welcome.
And this is why we are here.
Yes.
You know, so it is.
I think it's all those things that it's, you know, when going into a relationship, when
going into a marriage, you know, it is.
I think part of it is all those reasons as to why people just keep going.
Right.
Gaslighting.
Yes.
Like, I know that that didn't have anything to do with what you said right there.
But it is.
I wanted to say it out loud because I was like, I've been sitting here thinking, what
would be another fairly good red flag?
Yeah.
If this person gaslights you.
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
Okay.
Can you describe or define what gaslighting is?
My Google?
Yeah.
So it would be like, if you caught somebody doing something.
Yes.
Or caught somebody saying something.
Yes.
And they make you feel like you're wrong or you're bad for even bringing it up.
Right.
Or they do their best to psychologically manipulate you to make you think that what you saw, heard,
did, didn't actually happen.
Right.
You know, like.
It's like psychological warfare.
It is psychological warfare.
Yep.
And manipulation.
At its finest.
It is.
It's like, I almost wanted to say at its finest.
And it's like, but I don't want to say nice things about manipulation.
Yeah.
But it is.
It's, you know, again, it's the, you know, it's like, it's like in politics, you know,
it's like, oh, this person, you know, said this during a speech.
And then two hours later, you've got like their spokesperson or somebody else.
Well, that's not what they said.
That's not what they meant.
That was not the intent of what they meant.
Right.
It's like, how do you know?
You are not even near this person.
You're not communicating with this person.
That's not what they meant.
That's not what they said.
How do you?
It's like, I have the transcripts.
That's exactly what they said.
That's what they said.
Yes.
No, that's not what they said.
That's not what they meant.
Or, or again, it's like somebody getting caught drinking, you know, hey, you made a commitment
that you're not going to drink on the weeknights.
Right.
You know, hey, I see that you have alcohol with you.
No, I really don't.
Why are you always attacking me?
You know, and all of a sudden it's like, they either do their best to convince you that
you didn't see what you saw or they completely flip it to all of a sudden, you're the bad
guy for calling me out, for catching me.
Right.
You know, and that's what it is.
It's the...
They don't own the responsibility.
They don't.
And they want to turn it around and all of a sudden, well, you're the bad person because
you saw this.
Right.
What are you doing spying on me?
Why you don't trust me?
Why are you trying to...
Oh, see, and all of a sudden it's like, I heard in my mind, it's the whole like, you
know, why do you make me treat you this way?
You know?
That one movie.
Yeah, that's crazy.
Yeah.
You know, why do you make me do this to you?
It's like, didn't.
Yeah.
Didn't.
You make me so angry.
Why do you make me hit you?
Yeah.
You make me, you know, or whatever.
You drive me to drinking.
No.
You drive you to drinking.
Right.
So yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
You know, but it is, or, you know, you've got stuff on your phone and all of a sudden
it's like, you know, oh, you don't trust me and why are you looking at my phone?
And that's not what that is.
That's something else.
Right.
Yeah.
It's just all the nasty manipulation.
As opposed to if, if you have somebody, if your spouse, okay.
If you have your spouse and they are in that space.
Again, do we understand that marriages are not perfect?
Absolutely.
Do we understand that some marriages like just we've had, again, we've had people on
our, our podcasts.
We've had the opportunity to sit and talk to different ones along the way.
You know, like, um, you have, you all porn or you have alcohol or you have, you know,
drugs or whatever it is, whatever's going on, right?
The things we've even had, you know, like extramarital affairs, you know, just different
things.
But when you have somebody that comes to you and says, I want, I want to change.
I don't want to be this person anymore.
Yeah.
Like they own the responsibility.
They own, they own their part of it.
They own what they've done.
And then, and then that's when we know that God can come in and some forgiveness can come.
Yeah.
If your person is not willing to walk in that space though, that is when you need to start
considering is enough enough.
Yeah.
Is, is this, okay, God is, is this where we part ways?
Is this where we, we got to do some deep sea diving?
Yeah.
Is this where, Hey, can we go to counseling?
Oh, you're denying that, or you don't want to go to counseling.
You don't, you don't want to bring in another party that will keep us accountable or you
don't want anybody else to know what's going on.
Like, these are some pretty good size flags.
Yeah.
At least some really humongous caution tape that needs to be wrapped around everything
and just do not go any further until you get this fixed.
Yeah.
Yeah, definitely.
Cause it, cause it is, it's, if it's, you know, like with so many of the things, if,
if these things aren't addressed properly, if they aren't taken care of, you know, if,
if they aren't resolved, you know, they're going to fester, they are going to get bigger.
Yeah.
And it's, it's, it's like, all of a sudden I said fester and I think gangrene and it's
like, you know, Oh, I was just thinking about a giant zit.
Yeah.
And see, and I thought, you know, like, Oh, you know, it's like, if you get like an injury
on your toe or really bad cut on your toe, all of a sudden it's like, if you don't treat
it, if you don't take care of it, especially when it's small, it could get infected.
And then all of a sudden it's like, they're going to want to take your toe.
Then if you don't get that taken care of, they're going to want to take your foot and
eventually your leg.
And it's like, how much more are you willing to lose?
Right.
Yeah.
You know, so it is, it's one of those things where it's like, you know, and, and I think
that's where you need, you know, it's, it's like I said, we said it before it's where
you need that, that circle around you, that, that sounding board, those, those trusted
friends, those close friends, those, you know, those trusted family members that when they
speak into your life, even if they're speaking the hard, you're going to listen.
Yeah.
Even if you listen hesitantly and begrudgingly at first, because you're like, I don't want
to admit that you're right, but I know you're right, but let me be frustrated first.
Right.
No, right.
Absolutely.
So let me, let me mourn the loss of this and then we can talk about fixing it or going
forward.
You know, let me, let me mourn the fact that I was, I got into this situation and now let's,
let's figure out how to get me out, either get out or go forward.
Yeah.
Like, and it's like, and it's that whole, do not surround yourself with yes men.
Yeah, definitely.
If, if you are surrounded by people that constantly are in the place of agreement with you all
the time and they're not giving you the hard truth.
Yeah.
I would question who these people are.
Or sorry.
No.
Or the people that will agree with you blindly.
Yeah.
Cause, cause I know I'm going to step on a, on a lot of toes on this one, but I've, I've
learned Christians are especially bad at it.
Like I need you to stand in agreement with me on an unspoken prayer.
I'm like, Nope, I need to know what you're wanting me to do.
I do not do those anymore.
Yeah.
Like, no, you got to tell me straight up what you're about to pray.
Cause I'm not about to agree with something that is not of God.
Like before I was a Christian, I'd never heard that before.
Yeah.
You know, I'm not going to tell you what's going on, but I need you to agree with me.
It just frustrates me.
Like what?
Freak out of me.
It just does.
I need you, I need you to pray really hard for an unspoken prayer.
Well I can't pray for really hard for something.
Tell me straight up.
It's just so dumb.
Just dumb.
If you cannot tell me your freaking prayer, no, or at least give me a general idea.
We don't have to go into great details.
Am I praying for prosperity?
Am I praying for a job?
Am I praying for healing?
Am I praying for something to die?
Give me a direction.
Give me a general direction at least.
No, it's an unspoken prayer.
It's just between me and God.
Well then you and God are going to have to talk about that.
Nobody has said that to me, but I've heard it enough and it is, it is one of those weird
things that it's like, so again, you know, don't surround yourself with yes men and don't
surround yourself with people that will just blindly agree with you.
Correct.
Because yes, 100% word of God says, where two or three are gathered in my name, I am
there.
But y'all got to have a talk about it.
You got to touch and agree.
You have to, when two or more are gathered in my name, agreeing on anything.
It's that part, like touching and agreeing in my name.
Okay.
But again, if he didn't ordain it, he doesn't have to keep it alive.
Like I think of the scripture where it says, God will finish all things.
What is it?
He's, he's faithful to finish the things that he started.
I'm trying to remember how that scripture goes exactly, but that's the gist of it.
Right?
He's, he's faithful to finish what he started.
Okay.
Well, if he didn't start it, he didn't have to.
He doesn't, do we have a God of rescue?
It's my whole thank you Father, grace and mercy, grace, mercy and rescue.
You know what?
I was silly enough to build my house on sand.
God, I need you to help me.
Can we like throw a foundation down?
That'd be great.
Yeah.
But like it's, it is, it's, I, I would beg to like someone's, Oh, you know, the grace
of God and the mercy of God.
And I'm like, yeah, but you know what?
He may, he might look at you in that one moment and say, you know, you actually knew better.
Yep.
And you didn't.
Nope.
I'm going to let you bite this one.
I'm going to let this one bite you.
Yeah.
I mean, my marriage.
Yeah.
You weren't a Christian.
I wasn't a Christian.
So you, you, you have an out, sir.
That's my little get out of jail free card.
You have an out.
I do not.
I was loving Jesus, all of it.
I just wanted to have legal sex people.
That's what happened.
I just, Gabri's dad, he's pretty.
He's a pretty man.
Yeah, no, that was it.
That was, that was just, I say that I tease at times with you most mostly, cause I don't
want to sit here and say, you know, like he was incredibly talented, very smart.
Like we actually had stuff in common, but there were, there were more red flags than
anything else.
Yeah.
But it was a good friend that should have stayed there.
Yeah.
It wasn't even a good friend.
Just he was, he was a friend.
He was friendly.
It should have stayed there.
Yeah.
You know, but dang, you're pretty.
Oh, you think I'm cute.
Sweet.
Do you want, do you want to put a ring on it?
Yep.
Okay.
That's, that's how it broke down.
And it's like, there's much more to it than that.
But again, kind of like you, I will not speak ill of him.
I don't want to speak ill of him because we do pray for him and it is Gabri's biological
father, but we want to be respectful.
That being said though, guys, like it was not supposed to be, it was not supposed to
be.
And so in those moments, you can sit here and wish and preconceived idea and have your
own little imaginations of how you think something needs to go.
All you want to, but if God is like, no, like he's so faithful to like give us signs.
He gives us warnings.
He brings people alongside of us and says, dumb idea.
Yeah.
Let's not do that.
Or if you see yourself kind of like what you did, right?
Even if you don't know God, he's so very much there still in the midst of it.
Even if you didn't know he was around, he's still around you.
And there's is probably a pretty good chance that he's like, Hey, you're starting to isolate
yourself.
Hey, you're kind of running across country to try to chase after this chick.
What are we doing?
Yep.
You know, like you're not really thinking clearly here, sir.
Like what do we do?
Right?
Like if you find yourself doing things that are out of character.
Yeah.
Spending way too much money on jewelry.
Yeah.
It's probably a red flag.
Yeah.
You know, like we're not trying to berate or trying to, we're, man, we're trying to
help you guys.
Like we're trying to help you guys because we genuinely believe that not every marriage
is God.
Yes.
And a lot of times people feel they're stuck.
And again, we never ever want to say the D word.
We do not speak the slightly.
Yeah.
But we know that if abuse is abuse is abuse, whether it's emotionally, mentally, spiritually,
financially, physically.
Like if there's some major, major, like if any of this, a lot of this, even one or two
bigs of this hit you, I would say like really like go to somebody that maybe you've been
dodging that you usually get really good solid advice from and you want to dodge them because
you know if they eye check you.
Yep.
Like go find, go find that person because I guarantee they love you.
They love you and they want the best for you.
And they don't want to see you continue to go around this mountain because maybe one
of these days that that mountain might crash down on you and cause more harm than you have
ever even dreamed.
Yep.
It's true.
So yeah.
Yeah.
I hope this helped people.
I do too.
I pray that eyes are open, that ears are open, that hearts are open.
I pray that people understand that there's a difference between fighting for something
and then just eventually letting God fight for you and walk away.
Yeah.
Agreed.
And then trust God with the person that, with the person that's given off the red flags.
And then ultimately guys, ultimately, because this is where Luke and I had to eventually
come into our lives.
Okay.
We both had red flags.
We both totally bypassed our red flags.
Had really not good things.
And then eventually we had to ask God to remove the red flags inside of us and to heal those
places to where we understood who we were so that way the green flags could show.
Yes.
That we knew that we were worthy of the green.
Yes.
And that's our prayer for you guys.
All right guys, have the best week.
Enjoy the journey.