Hello and welcome back to another episode of Upfront and Undivided with Luke and Dean'na.
Hi babe.
How's it going?
It's good.
How are you?
I'm good.
Do you want to tell the at home audience how you're feeling?
Not well.
Okay.
I do not feel well, but I am here.
Yes.
And you summed it up beautifully today because I'm looking at you and I'm desperately like
trying to have a conversation with our children.
The beautiful thing is literally everybody but you had the day off today.
Yes.
But even with you having the day off, it's like you're down here in your office and so
everybody's home.
Yes.
I've changed my clothes, but I think for the most part, everybody's still in their PJs.
Everybody's just still kind of, you know what I mean?
And I had great ideas of grandeur.
Yes.
Started off really strong.
I woke up like I was ready.
Let's go.
Let's do things.
I was going to say, I remember.
I didn't get started as early as I wanted to, but I still like, it was like almost 730
when I was getting moving.
We were rested.
Yeah.
You're like, yeah, I'm ready to get up.
Go ahead.
Turn on your side of the light.
Go ahead and turn off the fan.
I'm like, all right.
Yeah.
Let's go.
So I get maybe an hour into the day, which I always get frustrated because I'm like,
I need to just, my workout needs to be my very first thing because I'm like, it just
needs to be.
Yeah.
Because within an hour of being awake, like all of a sudden I'm going, what is that?
What, like you hear it in me, but I've been sounding like this for a couple of days.
Yeah.
And I'm looking at you going, I just, it's that space where you like, I just want to
throw up.
Just let me throw up once.
I'll be all right.
But it just, it's like, and you, you said it's like, what do you say?
It's like a battery powered car.
Yeah.
It's like a remote controlled car where the, you know, when, when the battery is fully
charged, you can zip and you can turn and you can do all the tricks.
And when the battery gets low, you get in spurts or you're just sluggish.
Yeah.
Like I was like, okay.
Because I had Christmas cards I was going to do and I had, I was going to help with
you finishing the devotion.
And then I was like, Ooh, I want to make Christmas cookies.
I want to get creative and I want to learn how to do things.
Like I was all excited.
Yeah.
I got two Christmas cards done.
Good job.
Thank you.
I think that's it.
Yeah.
Oh, I, our dishwasher has broken.
It's broke.
It's officially broke.
Um, I discovered that the dishes that were in the dishwasher today were not clean, that
apparently it broke before it could do the last load.
And I think that's on me.
It's okay.
Um, so I opened it to mold and penicillin like stuff.
So that should have helped heal you.
You know, you would have thought.
And um, so I, I had enough energy to, to the dishes cause our girls like, what are you
making for dinner mom?
And I was like, I will cook if you wash the dishes knowing that we are our dishwasher
is kaput.
Yes.
And it's like, Oh, I'll make tokyo.
I'll just go ahead and make some toketos mom, which basically that pulls them out of the
freezer, throw them in the oven and then you're done.
Which is fine.
It's like the Brown and serve roles for Thanksgiving.
It's fine.
So, um, so yeah.
And then, uh, I tried eating a little bit more.
Uh, you've been very good to me.
You made me some protein today, made myself and Gabri some protein today.
And um, Sebastian does his ramen and his stuff, but like I, I started eating, telling you
about like some of the stories from Gabri's world and just from just stuff that I was
thinking about.
And you were like, this would be a really good podcast.
Let's talk about that.
And so here we are here we are.
And I'm trying to do my best to have all the energies, all the energies.
I'm like, I will get on the treadmill when we get done with this.
Yes.
No.
And I, I have just determined that probably some of what's going on.
Cause I talked to my besties, right?
Talk to some of them today.
They're like, you're right.
How you doing?
What's going on?
And, um, for those that listen to in the real, um, know that I last Tuesday I had my MRI
for my breast.
I, Heather and I made all the fun comments and cracked all the jokes and talked about
eggs, like all the things.
And then tomorrow is my followup.
And so I can't be not feeling good, but at the same time I'm like part of me goes, I
wonder if maybe part of this is what that is.
Just not that I picked anything up from the hospital, but you and I have both learned
that I have a certain thing about me that when my body even remotely stresses, I'm not
stressed in a space of there's a fear.
Even if they did find something, you and I would be fine.
We would be like, it's no big deal.
What do we do next?
What's the next step?
But I think that there's always just that little thing inside me that just goes, cause
my body kind of starts running down about the time that these things kind of show up
on the scene.
And I think it's one of those things that it's not necessarily to kind of go on the,
it probably is stress, but it's one of those things that it's not, it's kind of back to
the not all stress is bad.
No, no.
Because stress is what helps keep us alive in some degrees.
And it helps with that fight or flight response and all.
And so it's like, but it is.
I'm just going to say I don't have fight or flight.
I just have a lay down and just, I'm going to take a nap.
Fight flight or nap.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
You know, but it is, it's that, you know, again, it's, you know, because even if it
is it's that, you know, that degree of holding your breath.
That's a good analogy.
You're coming up with, you really are being able to explain me better today than me explaining
me.
But, but it is.
It's that degree of holding your breath because I mean, we could break down the physiology
of, you know, if you're not breathing right, you're not going to be living right.
And you know, at times like this, when it's just, you know, even, even though we know
that the test results are going to be negative, you know, they're, they're not going to find
anything, but it's just, it is, it's that I know everything's fine.
I'm just waiting for them to say everything's fine.
Yeah.
And, and even that pause, you know, because again, it was, you know, Tuesday was the MRI.
Yeah.
This upcoming Tuesday, which is tomorrow while we record is going to be the reading of the
results.
Yeah.
And so it is, it's that, you know, because nobody will tell you at the MRI, oh yeah,
everything looks fine.
I didn't see anything.
Right.
They can't say that because, you know, they have to wait for somebody special that has
been, you know, the anointed one to read the results of the MRI.
Right.
And then they pull out the scroll of truth and oh, yes, we found nothing.
Okay, cool.
Thanks.
And then we're in the midst of holiday season.
We're trying to do the Christmas stuff and get this.
It is pre winter.
That was the best reel ever.
It is pre winter.
It is not winter yet, but it is pre winter.
And we're just getting ready for that.
And we're in, in like, you, like I kind of alluded to, like we, we are in the, in the
space of finishing up the last of that devotional.
And now we're in the process of how do we go about it?
Who do we go through?
How do we price it?
All the things, the stuff that just.
It's like the business side.
The business side of the world of the things.
But it's good.
Yes.
So, but it's good.
It's really good.
And I, and all I can think of is in these kinds of moments, especially when I do not
feel good, I always think how much I appreciate you just simply because you, you are, you're,
you take very good care of me.
And there's days where you're like, I didn't do anything.
I'm like, I think you don't understand when I say, when you take care of me, you don't
insist that I take care of everything else and do all the things you, you're not a taskmaster
whenever like, oh, you're fine.
Just get up and know you're fine.
I really know I don't feel good, but I will.
So you don't do that to me.
You actually do let me rest and I do appreciate that.
You're welcome.
Appreciate that.
So what are we talking about today?
You're going to do a lot of the talking.
I will do my best.
This is wearing me out.
Yes.
I hear you.
It's probably going to be a short one then.
And that's okay.
Because, because, because again, it could, it could be a single bite or it could be a
full meal.
Our goal is to have a filling experience at the table.
That was cheesy.
I like you though.
That's cute.
She used to sound good.
But we're going to talk about transparency today.
Yes.
Because sort of a backstory to this, we were, we were talking and because again, we, we
talk about this a lot and we talk about relationships a lot.
One of the things that we were talking about one day was in a way it kind of has to deal
with your past.
Yeah.
And I was trying to write this out.
I was, I was going back and forth about, you know, we were going back and forth about putting
this as a, as a week of the devotional.
And I, I think I want to scrap it and we'll just, we'll just talk about it as a podcast
episode and not put it in the devotional.
Or maybe surprise, surprise.
Yeah.
Or maybe surprise, you know, always looking forward to feedback.
But I think, but what, what this was, what this started off was, was everybody's got
a past.
Yes.
You know, you know, some people before they get married, they, they've had, they've, they've
had the experience of, you know, they've always known Jesus and they, they've, they've never
been with anybody else and you know, the person they marry is, is they're one and only forever
and always.
Yeah.
You know, there are others that have lived through all the ups and downs of life's craziest
rollercoaster and you know, and not that one is better than the other, not that, you know,
you know, cause, cause a lot of times it's like, I hear these stories of people that
have gone through the wringer in life that have, you know, lived all the crazy experiences
and you know, been in the bottom of the bottom and it's, you know, it's like, I always want
to hear that as a cautionary tale to people that have not gone through that.
Yeah.
Especially when it comes to walking in faith, because I don't want people that are feeling
mediocre in their faith to hear those stories and think, Oh, I have to go down this tragic
path in order to walk closer with God.
It's like, no, no, you don't.
You really don't.
I promise.
Right.
I mean, we've, we've got people, we've got people in our lives that have lived that.
Like I always think of Papa Charlie and Mama Karen.
Like they, you know, like I know that they, and Mama Karen, if I have this wrong, please
correct me.
She will.
Yeah.
And I think that my understanding is like, Charlie wasn't raised in like a Christ-filled
church or Christ-filled family.
Yeah.
I think either one of them were, but they found Jesus like at very young, kind of early
on or at least teens, twenties.
And then that's when they finally kind of came together.
One of the horse riding people that were with them was like kind of a pastor mentor person.
I love hearing that story.
Isn't that the sweetest story?
We got a chance to see her.
We're just going to go hang out and ride horses together and fall in love.
And fall in love.
That's so sweet.
It's the sweetest story ever.
But they're each other's one and only, right?
Like kind of situation.
There might've been dating.
I think, I think that was correct, right?
Yeah.
They both had dated somebody before, but not anything like to hear from Karen.
Like, she's like, yeah, she completely blew a guy off and like, no, I like this guy.
Yeah.
And then the pastor like set her up with some guy and she was like, yeah, he's okay.
Yeah.
Like, yeah.
So, so if we embellish that or if we got it completely wrong, Karen, we're sorry.
But it was, the fact is that they were together for so long, like literally just kind of their
one and only.
It's the same story that like our daughter will have.
That's what she desires and that's what she will have.
Our son will have that also.
And we are very blessed with people that like in our church, some of the young adults, different
ones that have literally lived that, which is a blessing.
We have not, you know, like I, or I think of Kayla and Hunter, right?
Like they are like each other's one and only.
And there's these beautiful, beautiful stories.
I know that you said one isn't better than the other.
I will actually disagree.
I will say being with Jesus constantly is always going to be better than the other.
It just is.
I do hear what you're saying, but man, like to know that you didn't have to go through
the same rigmarole and the heartache and the drama and the stuff like that we did.
And then our favorite joke all the time being, but it's serious.
We're serious when we say it, of the reason why our marriage is so good now is because
we learned fairly early on in our previous lives how to do marriage badly, how to do
relationships badly.
At the beginning of our marriage, it was a little rocky, but like we had a good, I think
we had enough sound footing that helped us get through the rocky to where we could get
onto the solid ground.
Yes.
And I think kind of that part is what I really wanted to talk about today.
Because again, it's one of those things that... And people could take this kind of what
I'm going to go at.
People can take it to outside of relationships and outside of marriage and just normal walk
with God.
But it's like with that past in mind, I think it's very important that we do have that transparency
at the beginning of a relationship, preferably before you get married.
Or if it has to wait until after you're married, that's fine, that's how it happens.
But it's that level of transparency of here's my past.
It's kind of like the here's what you're getting when you get me type thing.
You know, again, not to... And I know some of the stories, some people could be intimidated
by it, some people could feel embarrassed of, oh my gosh, I'm telling this person my deepest,
darkest secret.
And it's like it's not what that is for, but it's similar to how we want to expose everything
to the light of Jesus.
And we want God to cover and wash us with his blood.
And so it's like, so everything is made news, everything is made clean.
And it's like, in a way, that's what we're doing with our spouses, with our future spouses,
is we're sitting here saying, I want there to be no secrets between us.
I want everything to be out in the open.
But there's also that level of, I can tell you all the dark that I've been through without
showing you all of the dark that I've been through.
Because I think back to some of our stories, especially some of my stories, it's like,
I'll tell you enough of what I've been through, what I've done, what I've seen.
And it's like, I don't have to... Go into the major details.
Yeah, I don't have to paint all the details.
I don't have to be that, like when you're looking at a picture of something, the photorealism,
it's like, it's not abstract, but it's not photorealism.
So it's like, but it's... It's enough.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's enough.
And it's like, that's what you want to do.
Because there's two illustrations that I had in my mind when we were talking about this.
Originally the concept, kind of the idea I had of this was, for people that do have a
lot of stuff in their past, or even just a little stuff in their past, it's almost like,
the stuff you've done is all put into a file cabinet.
And I think there's a lot of people that what they try to do is, they have this file cabinet
of stuff that they've done, especially if they weren't Christian.
It's like, here's the stuff that I did in my past life, before I knew Jesus, here's
what I did.
And I'm just going to shove a bunch of Jesus stuff into this file cabinet.
So the Jesus stuff will cover the bad stuff that I did.
And I'm just going to shut the file cabinet and know that that's my Jesus covers.
There's a bunch of Jesus stuff in there, and there's some other stuff in the back that's
crumpled and covered, and it's okay.
But I think what's not good with that, not best practice, if you will, is, yes, you're
putting a bunch of Jesus in there.
You're filling your head with a bunch of Jesus.
You're filling your heart with a bunch of Jesus, but you're not actually dealing with
the stuff that you did.
You're not dealing with the multiple partners you had, the paganism, the junk, the trauma.
And then the other illustration that I had was, we are meant to, with our past and all
that, and what we've done in our lives, we're meant to clean it with the blood, not cover
it with the wool of the lamb.
Because when I was doing an illustration, it was like, I can sit there and I can put
it out on the table and I can show you and say, here's what I've done.
Here's who I was.
Or I can say, well, everything I did was on this piece of paper and I put it under this
box that has Jesus stuff and it's there.
It's on the table.
And it's like, because we're not dealing with it.
I think that there are some things that do just kind of go away.
Like, we know that there, we know the power in the blood.
We genuinely, you and I genuinely know the power of the blood of Christ.
Our lives are a testimony.
That being said, I would also say the reason why we know to such gravity and to such depths
is because we have opened up our file cabinets, literally flip them upside down, let them
hit the floor and say, okay, so this is what I did.
This is who I have been.
This is what I have done.
These are the players in my story.
This is all this stuff.
And then allowed the Holy Spirit to not just the forgiveness of our sins, the forgiveness
of our failings, our shortcomings.
It's been the Holy Spirit coming in and saying, let's cut away the soul ties.
Let's disentangle your thought system.
Let's go ahead and heal those holes that are in your heart because you've given pieces
away of who you are.
Let's go ahead and start washing off those fingerprints of all the people and the partners
and the things and the trauma.
Let's start dealing with some of these things.
And he's so gentle and he's so kind and he's so good, but he's also, he's a jealous God.
And it makes me think of what is that line in Narnia where he's talking.
What is it?
When they're asking, when one of the children is asking about Aslan and he's like, is he
good?
It's like, he's dangerous, but he's good.
Or is he gentle or kind or something?
But they're asking about the line.
He's dangerous, but he's good.
But he's good.
And that's what I think of when it comes to the things of God, because a lot of times
people go, well, dangerous, dangerous is horrible or aggressive or whatever, just ferocious,
fierce, right?
These are very intense words.
They're like, oh gosh.
And I'm like, no, the lion of Judah, that's like who you want into your space.
You want somebody that is going to fight for you because he knows the adversary that's
coming for you.
He knows the one that's wanting to literally still kill and destroy.
He knows the one that wants to keep you in your file cabinet and keep you covered in
your chaos and in your sin.
He's not going to pull punches.
He's going to go after the jugular of the enemy of your soul.
And when we as the people of God, especially when it comes to our spouses and the relationships,
even with our children, when we step into that space and we say, you will not have,
you will not have my family, you will not have my marriage, you will not have my children,
you will not have my friends.
Sunday I think of when we had the sermon and I was talking about the bio dome and this
kind of ties into what you're talking about because if we stay in a shallow space, if
we don't allow the roots to go deep because the reason why the roots aren't going deep
in a relationship, well, why can't we seem to hit, we keep hitting a certain space guys,
like we can't seem to get really deep in our relationship.
Well, what have you been covering under the surface?
What is underneath the surface that might be keeping you from going into those deep
spaces because you got to do some digging.
You got to go in and say, why do I respond the way that I do?
Man, every time you say this, babe, this seems to trigger me.
Every time you do this, babe, this seems to, right?
And it's like, maybe find out what it is.
Get it exposed so that way it can be dealt with and so that freedom can start coming
and your relationship can become stronger.
And I think back a lot to my walk with God now versus how I was raised because I was
raised Catholic and there are like, it's like, I don't want to sit here and say it's like
there are different rules, but there were different rules and there were different ways
that we did things.
Because I know that now I can go to God and I can be like, God, I sinned, I messed up,
I want to do better.
I truly am sorry.
Please forgive me.
I want to move on.
Let's move past this.
And God's pretty much like, hey, you asked for forgiveness.
Cool.
Done.
Books closed.
Let's go on.
Let's go forward.
And it's like, the way I was raised was when you asked for forgiveness, you actually had
to go to a priest and it was called confession.
And it was, side note, that's why it was always really confused because they're like, make
a confession of God.
And I'm like, but that's what you do when you sin.
Why are we talking about sitting when declaring what God is to you?
So yeah, I always have trip up on that word.
But yeah, so in confession in the Catholic church, it's like, you are encouraged to name
all of your sins and how many times you did it.
And it's like, if you didn't, it's like you're almost taught.
And that it is, it's basically how you're taught, raised, whatever you want to call
it.
If you name that specific sin in confession, then you're not going to be forgiven of that
sin.
So it's like, you're almost taught of when you're listing your things at the very end
of, well, that's all I can think of, but I might have forgotten something.
You know, I poked a badger three times.
I had 16 lustful thoughts.
I punched my sibling 14 times and, you know, yeah.
So it's very different.
But yeah, yeah.
So it's like, but again, it's just, I say that to say, you know, with all of this, you
know, again, it's not that we have to be specific when we're talking to our spouses, our future
spouses or to God with, I've messed up in my life.
I want to do better.
I want to be better.
I want to go forward being better with you.
Yeah.
And it's like, boom, blank slate, let's go.
You know, you don't have to sit here and, you know, again, when we got together and
we were talking about our past, we weren't recounting every single episode of every single
bad thing that we've done with each other.
We probably would still be having that conversation and probably wouldn't be married yet.
Possibly.
But I know that we also exposed a lot of things that we did to be exposed.
We did talk about a lot of stuff that had to be exposed.
There were definitely things that needed to be talked about.
And I think that that's the part that we're getting at, that allowing yourself to be transparent
enough with your spouse to say, this is what I'm struggling with.
This is what I'm dealing with.
You know, even things that don't even quite make sense.
Like, well, why are you thinking that right now?
I don't know.
It's just, this is what I'm dealing with.
It's weird.
I don't, there's nothing there.
I don't even understand, but this seems to be the battle that I'm battling right now.
When what we get to be as spouses and as each other's helpmates, we get to come alongside
and say, well, guess what?
You don't get to battle it by yourself now.
This is now something that we get to come together and we get to speak the name of Jesus
over.
This is something that we get to pull down the strongholds and call down heaven and ask
God to give us direction, give us wisdom.
How do we handle this father?
How, you know, because we've got friends, we've had people that have even come on here
and like we've had people that have talked about like battles with pornography.
We've had other people that are battles with, you know, lust, but battles with other, right?
Like just other things.
And it wasn't dealt with to the capacity that it could have been dealt with until the other
spouse knew.
Yeah.
Until it was brought to the light, until it was brought out of the filing cabinet.
Yeah.
Until, you know, it's like you could, the one spouse could claim Jesus and cover it
with Jesus all day long.
And again, thank you father for your blood.
Thank you for that, right?
Thank you for the covering.
Ultimately, it's like, do you want to be healed or do you want to be made whole?
Right?
Like, do you want to be healed of this?
Yeah, I want to be healed of this.
Okay.
But do you want to be whole?
Like, do you want to be restored?
Because being healed is one thing.
Like it's still there.
The evidence is kind of there.
It's still, it has residue.
Like, okay, well, I've been healed of this, but I still have that.
When you become whole, like your whole being becomes restored, your thought process, the
way you respond, your actions, your reactions, like those buttons that the enemy has had
play in for so long, they start becoming disengaged.
It's walking in that kind of freedom, not having a fear or a concern that when your
spouse is out of your presence, that they may be doing something or thinking of something
or talking to somebody or whatever, all of the things.
Like there is a genuine freedom and a wholeness and a healing that comes to everybody involved.
Yeah.
That's true.
That's so true.
Because it is, it's, you know, even with the filing cabinet and trying to shove all the
Jesus, you know, it's almost like you're trying to do all the Jesus knowledge and you're trying
to check off all the boxes of, look at me, I'm a good Christian.
And you know, I've done this and I've done this good deed and I've done this good deed
and I learned this and I went to this class and I got this certification.
And it's like, but did you talk to God about it?
You know, did you, I appreciate that you took your notebook and you wrote all these really
great, really, really great things.
But did you show God the inside of the front cover of here's how I grew up.
You know, here's what I was called when I was a kid.
I don't want to be called that anymore.
You know, and because God can do that, you know, God can do that restoration.
God can make you whole.
You know, it's like, I don't know why I'm going off into this tangent, but I am.
It's like, God did it.
I'm going to mess it up.
God did it for Jacob.
Okay.
You know, and you know, cause, cause, you know, they, they said Jake, Jacob was, you
know, trickster and fraudster and tricked his brother out of his inheritance for a bowl
of soup, you know, disguised himself with the help of his mother to steal his, his brother's
birthright.
You know, and, and had a dream where he was wrestling with the angel of God and said,
God, I can't beat you.
I'm not going to give up.
I need you to change me.
I need you to change my name.
Yeah.
And so, I'm not leaving here until you touch me.
You know, it's, it's like, I want to fight this out with God.
Yeah.
I'm not going to give up.
Yeah.
But I need you to beat me.
I need you to win.
Yeah.
And he said, okay, from now on, you will walk with a limp and you will now be called Israel.
And people will know that you have been in my presence.
Yeah.
You know?
Yeah.
And we hear all these stories.
We celebrate all these stories.
Yeah.
And then we sit here and think, I was too promiscuous in my past.
I could never be great.
I could never, not even great.
I was too, I was too much of a sinner when I was a teenager, when I was in my twenties,
that I can now no longer be good in the eyes of God.
I will never be able to have a healthy marriage.
Yes.
Yeah.
Because I have too much stuff.
Right?
And that's...
It's a lie.
It's a lie of the enemy.
Yes.
It is.
It's a lie of the enemy.
And I do, I hear all these stories and I do my best to read all these stories.
And it's like, it's so, the Bible makes it seem so simple.
Yeah.
And it really, really is.
You know?
Yeah.
It really is.
God, I don't want to give up.
Yeah.
But I need you to win.
Man.
And we're so, we as humans are so afraid to say that.
Man.
Crap.
Man.
Yeah.
Don't know where that came from, but there you go.
It's good.
So it really is that easy, folks.
It really is that easy to just say, God, I was a bonehead.
Yeah.
I want to be better.
Don't just cover my sins, my past, my flaws with your blood, but wash me clean.
Yeah.
Replace my blood with your blood.
Yeah.
I need you to win.
Yeah.
God, I need you to win.
Yeah.
I'm not going to give up, but I need you to win.
Because I think it's that first part that's important, because how many people are like,
I'll just give up and I'll just sit here and I'll let God win.
It's like, no, you have to be an active participant in this.
You have to, have to, have to be an active participant.
Yeah.
Wrestle it out with him.
Yes.
Yeah.
Go deep.
Find out the reasons.
Like, I'm sure the reason why he was, he's like, I do not want to be the same person
when I leave here.
I do not want, and I don't, and that's going to look different for everybody.
Every one of us has got some sort of different something, but it's, even those that have
walked this life literally from birth, literally walking the golden streets and doing the things
and being with Jesus, you have to, have to battle this out.
It's like, it's an easy thing, but it's not, but it is, but it's not.
Because we have flesh and we have an enemy, but when we know, when we know that we know
that we know that we can trust the one that we're battling this out with, it is easier
to stand and say, you want me to change this?
All right, good.
Then I'm going to trust you, but I'm going to trust you to help do it.
Because I can't, we've already proven, I can't, I can't do this without you.
And then just be raw and transparent and real and then let him win.
Yeah.
Bottom line, does it?
It's really good, babe.
Thanks, babe.
It's like, I almost want to say that was a fun one.
Man.
Did not know that was coming out.
I watched your face.
That's good.
Yeah.
All right, guys.
Have the best week.
Enjoy the journey.