Hello and welcome to another episode of Upfront and Undivided with Luke and Dean'na.
Hi.
Hello.
How's it going?
It's okay.
How are you?
Good.
There have been some changes.
Growth, some changes.
Yeah.
I think changes is a good word.
Yeah.
It's been a good week.
A few weeks, a couple weeks.
It's been a stretching.
Yes.
Because I forget, had we gone on our trip before the last one?
I don't think we had.
No.
I think we had talked about it.
No.
I think we were about to.
We were going to have anniversaries.
So 12 years.
12 years.
We went to Chicago.
That was fun.
We had Aaron and Whitney Lage.
They were kind enough to host us in their little cute little apartment Airbnb.
Yes.
Highly recommend.
10 stars.
Sincerely.
And then with our sweet, sweet girls loving on us and taking care of us and just making
us feel very, very welcome.
And then very sad because we left.
But it was good.
It was a good trip.
It was an opportunity to slow down.
Actually have a conversation like not being interrupted.
That was different.
Our sweet kiddos stayed behind and Gavrey sweetly took care of her little brother as
also your parents, which we appreciate them very much.
But it was one of those opportunities to where we got to be poured into.
But then we also got to pour out because Whitney and Aaron have a branch of, I guess kind of
it's a not a satellite church, but sort of.
It's associated with the church that we go to.
And anyway, they they're pastors up in the Chicago area.
And they had a marriage workshop happening, just happening to be happening that Saturday.
I said happening several times there.
Just happened to be happening.
Happened to be happening.
And they were so cute because they said, do you think that they would want to say something?
And so they had to stand up and speak.
And it was interesting because it's like share something.
And people say that you just kind of want to go because we had a really great evening
before and even Aaron said that he learned things about us that he didn't even know.
And so as much as you may know somebody or because he's one of our pastors and she's
one of my friends, but her sister more so just you're around people, you know of people,
but to actually sit down, break bread, find out who they are, maybe even get a little
bit more into why they are what who they are.
Then it it it brings other things to life.
But it also I think almost even more so it not just brings things to life, but I think
it gives people a better understanding plus an appreciation of just, oh, yeah, this is
what you went through.
But wow.
But God, like you, you don't even smell like smoke or oh, I understand now why your sense
of humor is a little twisted or whatever.
You know what I mean?
Whatever it is that people might say.
So they were kind enough to give us, you know, some time.
I think they would have given us a whole lot of time, but they they gave us enough time
at the end.
I spoke kind of like long winded like I do.
And then Whitney, I hand the mic to you and then Whitney asked you to share your background
as far as where you came from and, you know, being Catholics and witchcraft and then coming
into Christ and what does that look like and how did that go about?
So it was it was phenomenal because long story short, after we shared, we had several couples
come up to us afterwards and then the following Sunday, the next morning, we went and worshiped
at church with them.
And you're cornered by a couple not in a bad way, just, you know, they that sounds bad.
I'm sorry, but they came up attacking.
Yeah, they just they immediately wanted to gleam everything out of you.
And then we had the opportunity to minister and to share with a couple of other couples
even after church.
So it was it was so that's what I mean by it's like we had an opportunity to be poured
into they minister to us, loved on us, give us a space to just breathe.
And then and then just kind of the things that we do.
And I don't think I passed out so many of our cards for our podcasts ever like in one
space, just here, here, here, here.
And so so if our group is listening.
Yeah.
So welcome to all the new listeners.
Welcome to all of our new listeners.
And more so than anything, thank you guys for being so gracious and kind to us on our
trip.
It it was it was it was refreshing.
And it's it's beautiful to have people come in contact with you and you in in contact
with them that are so hungry and so teachable and so want to know how can I do this?
Like how does this work?
Even if it's not we don't have all the answers or maybe our answers aren't the answers for
you.
The fact is that we're able to bring you into a space to think maybe outside of what the
norm, what culture says is normal.
And say, hey, there are alternatives.
There are other ways to go about this.
So it was just it was just precious.
So it was very, very sweet.
So and then last week we got real busy.
Yep.
So it's just it's been a lot for the last two weeks.
Not bad.
Our boy is playing baseball.
Our girl is still healing from her surgery.
She has a new thing.
We had to take her to urgent care.
She got bit by a spider.
Dear God, we were waiting for her to turn into Spider Girl.
She was like, it didn't like we so we were health.
All four of us were cheering it on.
Yeah, we were.
I mean, she like is even doing the little hand flick to try to see if there's webs coming
out of her or something.
But yeah, it's good that everybody had a good sense.
You remember about it.
And then we celebrated Mother's Day.
Yep.
So happy Mother's Day to all of the moms.
Every day is Mother's Day.
Yes.
And we had hiccups is what's happening with me.
And and you guys were gracious and sweet and loving like you always are and took me to
go get plants and fed me all sorts of food and then plus ice cream.
And then Tuesday, babe, we we have a new addition to our family.
We decided to pitch pick up a hitchhiker.
We I mean, it did kind of feel that way.
It was kind of weird.
Here, meet us at this gas station.
It's the gas station along the highway.
OK, here we go ahead up in the backseat.
We'll welcome you into the back into our home.
That's I mean, that's it.
And our our sweet hitchhikers name is what her name is Sparks.
Her name is Sparks.
She is a ridgeback Labrador.
So she is the most beautiful red color.
She really is.
She's a little three year old.
Because she is going to her and I are going to go on a journey for her to be my service
dog.
Yeah.
So that will be fun.
Yeah.
So for all of you that listen to in the real and hear special appearances from Albus.
Yes.
One day you will probably also be hearing guest appearances from Sparks.
Yes.
You'll hear that the jingle the jingle of the of the caller.
Yeah.
And the little chain and stuff.
But yeah, she's she's precious.
She's you know, she's hung out with us now for just a second.
But she seems to be acclimating really well to the family, the family to her.
Our beautiful girl.
She lights up every time she comes to find her and our little guy.
He's you know, he's he thinks she's cool.
We went and picked him up today from school.
First time in the backseat of my teeny tiny car.
That was fun in itself, because she is a big girl.
Like she's seventy five solid pounds, not a tiny dog like our ginger was.
And it's sweet.
Yeah, it was just it was sweet.
So she she rode really well and got in, got out.
No problems.
And so, yeah, she she's we might keep her.
Yeah.
For the most part, I think we're I think we've we got like a trial run.
Yeah.
As the person that we haven't subscribed yet.
We haven't subscribed yet.
But according to the lady that's over the program, she's it's really cool because she loves God
and just really is big in that space.
She's like, I think I have a real good feeling about this.
So we're going to see how it goes.
And just so just stick with us on this journey.
If we sound a little extra tired today, that might be kind of the reason why.
Maybe just me.
All the journeys, all the journeys, converging into a journey.
Yeah, I'm still working towards my certification for the relationship coach, coach, person,
mediator thing.
And I'm feeling a little overwhelmed just because, like, there's so much change going
on.
And then next week is the last week of school for Sebastian.
And it's just it's like just a lot.
It's it's it's a lot.
It's a lot good.
It's it's not bad.
Nothing bad.
Just a lot good.
It's like everything's happening all at once.
A lot of change.
And and sometimes we get in a space where we don't want the change.
We don't like the change.
But if we don't start heeding to it and bending to it, then something breaks.
And that's the last thing we want.
And I think I don't remember if we've said it in the past, but I know we've we've talked
about it a little bit, at least you and I have.
But sometimes change can bring grief, a touch of grief, because because it is it's it's
changing from one season to another.
It's changing from, you know, one position to another.
You know, it's it's there.
There is sometimes like again, even if it's if it's 100 percent good change, sometimes
there's some grief that comes along with that change.
So it's like not only are you shifting and growing and changing and learning, but it's
also a touch of grief about that.
Old season position, what have you, that you were on.
Right.
So and I would I would I would say that that's probably some of the stuff that we're feeling
me in particular.
I mean, you also.
But it's you've got to.
I say it respectfully, you it's like you have a new toy.
Yeah.
So where it's you know, it's it's that learning process for me of stepping back because I
used to be your your support dog.
And now, you know, you you actually have a doggy, which is a good thing.
She's all of ours.
But yes.
But even though we we joke, you are still my emotional support.
Chihuahua.
That's you know, it's true.
It's true.
Nobody can talk you off a ledge like me.
That's right.
So but it's going to be good.
Yeah, it's going to be good.
So what are we talking?
So all of that said, yes, that was a lot.
How much time was that?
That was a lot over 10 minutes.
You know, that's fine.
It's fine.
Welcome to our world, guys.
This is kind of what's going on.
And it's like I do.
I always feel like I want to apologize to people when I tell them kind of what's going
on with us.
But at the same time, it's like sometimes it feels like we're hit and miss.
And I don't ever mean us mean for us to be hit and miss.
I think the beautiful thing is, is we also have those other two projects, podcast projects
that we do.
You with the fellas and me with the girls.
And and a lot of this takes time.
Time that we are willing to invest.
But you guys just be praying and bearing with us because we're just we're trying to figure
out like I have a journal I write in every day.
And my thing was, Father, help me be disciplined in this next leg of the race, because I have
got to be on my game like I have never been on my game before.
Like, I need to get up early in the mornings and I need to do the things that I that I
have been requested to do.
Especially when you know that God has asked you to do something, a lot of people go, oh,
well, that makes it easier.
Not really.
Not not really at all.
So sometimes it makes it harder just because now you have an adversary and now you have
the things.
But but it also is that kind of like what you were saying, the grieving of the the last
season, but also the not even just the grieving, but just the the weightiness of of the new
responsibilities that are coming in.
And so it's it is good.
Growth is happening.
Yes.
And it is good.
So I think that actually kind of takes us into I think so our last.
So we've been doing the questions.
We've been asked by several of our people.
I don't believe that this is the last question.
All of a sudden, I was like, I don't think this is the last question, but this is the
question we're doing today.
Yeah.
So this is part three.
This is part three questions from the audience.
That is right.
Did you want to read it or did you want me to read it?
I can't.
Okay.
Yeah.
So so today's question that we're going to be talking about, explain the process that
you two went through in becoming one in marriage the first five years, coming from different
lives to one life.
Was it hard?
Easy?
What were the challenges?
What was the fun part?
Sorry, radio voice.
A little bit, a little bit.
All right.
So explain the process that you went through in becoming one in marriage the first five
years.
We courted, then we got married.
That's the start of it.
But it's like the process that we win, win the first five years.
So here's the deal, guys.
We didn't talk about the answer.
Like we're doing this on the fly with you guys.
Wow.
Let's see.
I want to, I want to kind of joke, but also be serious.
What you guys listen to is a lot of the process that we went through while we were courting
our first five years of marriage.
I mean, that was, that was a big part of the process.
And that's, I think that's one of the reasons why, why with the two of us, whenever we talk
to couples, whenever we talk about marriage, you know, with, with us wanting to go on the
journey of being relationship coaches, you know, we have experienced and we have witnessed
the, I mean, basically the power of having productive conversations, of having even unproductive,
I mean unproductive conversations.
I don't really want to say it that way.
But I want to say like serious versus unserious.
Yeah, no, I think it's true.
I think I will say the way that, the way that I interpreted that when you said that.
So productive, productive is like we get to the heart of the matter and we just, we, we
get into it and we do what we need to do, right?
We sort through the mass, we do all this stuff and whatever.
I would say like when this, when it seems unproductive, it's like even the unproductive
can become productive because it's like you're learning, even if the unproductive seems like
you're falling over your words or you're not quite getting your thoughts across, you're
learning how to sit in the quiet or you're learning how to sit in the midst of the, ah,
I don't even know what we're saying right now, but learning how to sit even when you
don't quite understand.
Yeah, I, all of a sudden it's like, you know, I thought about, you know, like when you're
learning making love and sex for the first time as a married couple, it's like there
will be fumbling.
Yes.
There will be pleasure.
There will be the exploration and the curiosity.
Yes.
And you know, so it's, so it's, it's like that, you know, there, there will be fumbles.
Yes.
You know, there will be bursting out laughing during very serious times.
Yes.
You know, you will sometimes be in the mood to talk.
You sometimes not be in the mood to talk, but you still need to talk.
Yes.
Yeah.
That's why I started laughing.
I was like, ha ha.
No, no.
It's like sex.
That's fantastic.
I would say, let's see what, let's see, explain some of the process.
So I would say some of the process, like number one, communication.
One of the main things is you've got to know that you've got to trust this person.
Okay.
Well, Dina, that's great that you say that, but like this person screwed me over or just
like the, they fumbled, like they didn't, they didn't follow through on the thing.
So I would say, well, a lover love covers a multitude of sins and it doesn't keep a
record of wrong.
That's right.
And it, it has a tendency to say, let's start again.
Yeah.
Let's try this again.
Okay.
I, I see where we messed up here or I see where you messed up here.
I see where I messed up here.
However, the combination is the thing is, is when you walk through the process, sometimes,
and this isn't even just five years, like maybe you're 15, maybe you're 25, maybe you're
whatever, how for many years and maybe, um, maybe something happened, right?
Like maybe, maybe it was a major fumble and you have to say, um, am I willing to choose
this person even in the midst of the failing?
Am I willing to, uh, fight with this person, not fight at this person, but fight with this
person to say, okay, process processes.
Hey Luke, like we didn't talk all the way through on this, this particular situation.
Yeah.
We, I, let me tell you how I'm feeling XYZ and then ABC and then one, two, three, and
all of the things in between.
Let me, let me process this through.
And you as, as a loving husband choosing to walk with me and fight with me to get to the
other side of this is willing to say, even if it gets messy, um, you are safe with me.
You, you are, your heart is now safe with me again.
Let me prove that you can trust me.
Yeah.
And, and even when, cause even now when we have conversations and if it's something that
we're having to process or something has been, um, fumbled, that's just a great word, fumbled
along the way.
Um, one of us will say, listen, I need you to hear my heart as I fumble over my words
because what comes out of my mouth may not sound pretty.
It may sound, um, not polished.
It may not come out right.
Even how my brain or my heart is processing it.
I need you to give me a second to just try to walk it through.
And then as the person is done talking, you, as the listener gets to say, are you, okay,
are you done?
Yeah.
Okay.
What I believe I heard you say was XYZ.
Did I hear you properly?
Did I hear you correctly?
We do that even now.
Um, we don't go quite into that formality like we used to, but I think it's because
we were still learning how to even do that.
Now it's just, I can look at you like I did the other morning and say, look at me.
I'm going to talk to you as my best friend and not as my husband.
And when I say stuff like that, you know what it is that I'm, I'm about to say.
I'm not coming at you to attack you.
I'm not coming at you.
I'm coming at you as I'm, I'm coming towards you as your friend and saying, this is what
I'm seeing.
Yeah.
Cause I think apart, I think a lot of it is, you know, when, when early on in a marriage,
early on in a relationship you are, you're still, you're still learning each other's
basically communication styles, you know, so you're learning, you know, well, when they
say this with this tone, this is what they mean.
You know, you're not going to know that right away.
We did not know that when we first got married, you know, there was a lot of explaining of,
yeah, wait, this is what I meant or why are you yelling at me?
I'm sorry.
This is going to come out really wrong and it's going to sound horrible, but let me fumble
over my words to explain my point.
Right.
You know?
And, and so I think that's, that's, I think that that is, that's, that's what you got
to keep in mind is you were, I mean, you are learning each other.
You're ultimately learning each other.
And you know, I would say, you know, I know we did a couple of the, you know, like find
out what your love language is, you know, find out, you know, if you want to do like,
you know, someone like the little simple personality tests or something like that, you know, I,
I will encourage that, but here's my huge caveat.
Biggest but.
My biggest but caveat is do not get locked into that.
Please don't.
Because a, a lot of those are just a snapshot in time of how you are at this point.
And B, you know, God can change all things.
Yeah.
You know, we as Christians believe that God can change our DNA.
Yes.
And why would, why would he have the ability to change our DNA, but not change a personality?
Come on, sir.
You know, cause I mean, cause we have, we've, we've known people that they're like, well,
I'm according to this personality test, I am a hardcore introvert.
So I will always be an introvert.
I can never change from that.
And that's who I am.
And so everybody around me has to just deal with it.
And it's like, no.
And instead of growing and becoming better at social skills, I'm going to crutch on this.
I'm an introvert.
Yeah.
Yep.
You know, and, and the same can be said of, you know, the extreme extroverts or like the
type A personalities.
I'm just loud.
You don't have to be that loud, bro.
You know, it's like, well, I, because of my personality, I will always act like a bull
in a China shop.
It's like, no, you shouldn't have to do that.
So self control is a gift.
Yeah.
So again, take some of those, you know, learn kind of who you are at the moment, learn who
your spouse is at the moment and work from there.
You know, if, again, if you need to use that as a starting off point, do it.
But I will also say if you find a personality test that says, you know, what kind of potato
are you take that one too, because that starts, I'm a potato.
Because that could start some really good conversations.
You know, Oh, you're a Yukon gold.
Oh, wow.
I didn't realize that I'm a red.
I just blew your mind.
I think that's fantastic.
I was like, I am a Yukon gold by golly.
I have no idea what that means.
It's fine.
You know, so use those.
Yeah.
No, that's a fun.
But have, but have fun with those.
Yes.
Because, because again, even even with the like the love languages one.
Yeah.
You know, I don't remember exactly what it was, but what what it was, what our results
were at the beginning of our marriage is not what it is.
Crazy.
Absolutely crazy.
Yeah.
Absolutely crazy.
I think one of the main things don't take yourself so seriously.
Yes.
Just don't take yourself so seriously.
Because it's like it says coming from different lives to one life.
Like how does that happen?
How do you, you know, what kind of process do you do?
You you explore, you learn, you you get excited about the journey.
You you celebrate the differences.
You don't sit there and go, oh my gosh, like we would randomly.
This is some of the fun things that we would do.
We would listen to music in the car.
And we are incredibly eclectic with our musical listening pleasures.
And it's like a song would come on and you would just start like spouting out and I would
just go, oh my gosh, who are you right now?
I haven't listened to this song in 15 years, but I for some reason remember every word.
Every word.
And it's like you what are singing what?
And it's like, but it's it's, you know, I don't even know you.
And that and we would laugh and joke about it.
But it's like the beautiful thing of you get to discover somebody.
And even if you've been married for 15, 20, 30 years, you still get to continue to discover
somebody.
Because you're constantly growing.
You're constantly changing.
Some are very, very subtle.
Some are very, very slow.
Some are going to be overnight.
Some things you're going to just stand back and go, whoa, whether it's you've experienced
the presence of God in a in a tangible way, in a crazy way, right?
Like your life is completely like restored or something's changed.
Something traumatic happened.
All of a sudden, it's like stuff that you thought that you had dealt with all of a sudden
is coming to the surface.
And now you're having to go, whoa, we need to we need we need to soldier through and
we need to figure out how to do this.
Yeah.
Or all of a sudden, a health scare.
Yeah.
Like a motorcycle accident.
Come on.
That you know, because that happened within the first five years of our marriage.
Dude, that was legit.
You know, all of a sudden, it's like, oh, wait, your husband is now at the trauma room
at KU med.
Yeah.
Go.
Yeah.
And it is.
And it's and it's so you have that.
But that was even after your first out the situation where like you had lead poisoning.
Your body is literally doubled over.
You're walking with a cane.
All of the things I'm literally having a conversation with the Holy Spirit going, I did not sign
up for this.
And he goes, Yes, you did.
You said for better or for worse, in sickness and in health, it just happened to show up
a lot faster than some people.
Right.
And then what the first two, three months of our marriage, something like that, like
fast, like fast.
And so what do you do?
Yeah, you you say, Okay, Father, you've given me a good gift.
You you have placed this person to walk with me the rest of my days and me the rest of
theirs.
So I am going to continue to choose them.
I'm going to wake up every day.
I get to choose them.
No matter what the obstacles or if there's new things in play, I'm going to choose them,
because that is the right thing to do.
We made a covenant.
This is who we are.
Yeah.
And I get to it's not even a have to it's I get to coming from different lives into
one life.
I keep going back to that.
Just you say it all the time.
Enjoy the journey.
It's like people go, Oh, well, that means be joyful and have a good time constantly
all the time.
No, actually, no, no, it doesn't.
It really doesn't.
It's be present.
Be in the moment.
Did you we go?
We always talk about Gabriel and I shopping.
Did you enjoy the journey?
Which ie means hey, mom, did were you intentional with your time that you spent with your daughter?
Hey, babe, we enjoyed our journey in Chicago.
We didn't laugh every day.
We didn't constant you know what I mean?
It was and it wasn't like we were arguing there was anything.
There were some days we're just walking.
But it's like we're being intentional.
You're being present in that moment.
Whether it's in the worst of the worst.
Are you intentional?
Are you present?
Are you present to the person that you're in this with?
Are you present to the Holy Spirit?
Are you present to God?
Are you present to the people that maybe God is putting in front of you right there in
that moment?
Hey, you're okay.
Like I literally walked up to you when you were on the gurney and your head is all like
has missing skin, missing skin.
Yep.
And I go, are you like we cried.
Yeah.
And I said, Are you okay?
I'm okay.
Okay.
And I literally said, Now let's see who it is that we're here for.
And that we know that that was God.
Oh, yeah.
Coming out of my mouth.
Yeah.
And it's like, Okay, if you're fine, and I'm fine, then that means Father, you've got us
here for some reason.
What the enemy made to literally kill you, what the enemy has made to steal, kill and
destroy God will bring forth his glory if we pay attention.
And we learned early on in those years in the hard to pay attention, to pay attention
to each other.
But more than that to pay attention to Holy Spirit, what are you doing?
What are you doing?
Because if my spouse right now is having a very hard moment and having a hard time, maybe
mental health is happening, cancer is going on, whatever it is that's going on in that
moment, a hard pregnancy, Father, what is it that what do what part do I get to play
to help the hard not be so hard in this moment?
Yeah.
And I think I think in a way, kind of kind of what you were saying makes me makes me
think of some of the things that you know, some of the things we went through and did.
But also, I would kind of hand out as advice, if you will, of, you know, don't like I want
to try to say this really carefully, but I also want to like, get my meaning out, get
your meaning out, then try to go careful.
Just listen to his heart guys, not just his words.
See?
So as important as it is, when you're in a new marriage, new relationship to focus on
each other, and learn as much as you can about each other.
Also, don't get so focused on yourselves and each other that you ignore everyone and everything
around you.
Thank you.
You know, because a that's like, I almost want to say that's not fair to your new spouse
to make them your world.
Yeah.
You know, because again, you there's so much going on, you know, because you still have
friends, you still have family, you still have responsibilities, you know, you still
have life that you're living.
It's just now that you are married, your two lives get to get braided together.
Yes.
You know, it's like I, it is, I think I think I want to say it like that, you know, it's
braided together.
I know there's the, the saying about, you know, Jesus being the, the, the triple braided
cord.
Yep.
You know, it's not easily broken.
And Jesus, what's that?
It's not easily broken.
Right.
But it's also, I want to say I like that image because it's also you and your spouse, you're
still easily identifiable in that triple braided cord.
I like that.
You're not separate.
You're not individual, but you are intertwined with each other.
Yeah.
But you're still individuals.
You still have your lives.
You still have your friends.
Yeah.
But you're now together.
Yeah.
You know, you, you and I, there are times we'll go out and it's like, Hey, I'm going out with
the guys or I'm going out to do this.
And you're like, Hey, I'm going out with the girls.
Yeah.
You know, just because you're going out without your spouse does not mean all of a sudden
your spouse means nothing or, Oh, I'm single for the night.
Come on, babe.
You know?
Yeah.
So, you know, because it is, it's still important.
It's important to keep those relationships in addition to your marriage because those,
those relationships help strengthen your marriage.
I was going to say, especially the ones that, that are feeding goodness to your marriage,
the ones that are, that are toxic, the ones that are pulling you away, the ones that are
encouraging you to maybe be single while you are still married and out and about.
Or friend groups that are, that participate in spouse bashing.
Oh, yuck.
See, just run as fast as you can from those.
But if you've got accountability partners, dude, you've got friends that are going to
build you up and say, Hey, Hey, have you thought about this?
Hey, I went on this really cool thing and then it really helped on marriage.
Have you ever thought of that?
Yeah.
You know, be with those people.
Yeah.
And be with those friends.
Yes.
Cause I mean, I would say that the people that are in our lives that we do hang out
with, which, uh, with all due respect guys, for the most part, like we don't have, we
don't go out separate very often.
Um, but, but when we do, it is, it is a space where it's, um, it is uplifting.
We come back encouraged, we come back strengthened.
Um, so that even if it's just strengthening us individually in that moment, uh, ultimately
when it strengthens us individually in that moment, we do come back and it strengthens
us together.
And that's, that's when you know that it's good fruit.
That's when you know that you're surrounded by good people that they're standing back
there and they're, they're cheering you on.
They want nothing but the best for you.
So, uh, I think, I think we kind of answered some of the questions, but actually I was
going to, I was going to go a little more, especially with our first five years together.
Because I know that we're not totally unique.
There are other people like us, but it, it feels like, I don't know, in a way it feels
like it's not as common or it's at least in the minority of the fact of our first five
years of marriage, our courtship, not only were we getting to know each other and learning
how we were going to be as a couple, but we also had Gabriel in the mix.
Goodness.
Yeah.
It was, you know, from, from day one, from pre day one, we were learning to be a family
together.
Yes.
While we were also learning to be a married couple.
Yes.
And it's like, how are we a couple?
So that throws one more.
Plus how are we a married or a family?
Plus how am I learning to be stepdad dad?
You know?
Yeah.
You know, so it's like, that was like another dynamic that was thrown into that process.
Yes.
And there were, there were a lot of raised voices.
There was a lot of frustration.
There was a lot of throwing hands up and oh my gosh, I don't know how I'm going to do
this.
Right.
I'm just, I'm just going to, I'm just going to focus on you and I'm not going to worry
about her, you know, and you would be like, Nope, can't do that.
Can't do that.
And yeah, much as I wanted to, I did not.
Yeah.
And I am, I am super, super, super, super thankful that I did not.
I think, I think it helps.
Cause the following up, the follow up questions was, was it hard?
Okay.
And we've already told you guys a couple of the things that are hard.
Okay.
This was also what was hard.
Like was it hard?
Was it easy?
What were the challenges?
What was the fun part?
Okay.
So here's your challenges.
Here's the hard.
It's you, you don't just have two different personalities in the mix here.
You literally have three of us now and our, our beautiful brown eyed girl, like she enjoyed
the thought of you, but she didn't like sharing me with you.
And she didn't, she had a hard time.
And again, in her defense, you know, like a big majority of the people that had come
into our lives had walked away at some point.
And so, and you did look scary.
And it was, which is so funny now.
Cause like she just, she looks at you, she adores you.
She, you know, there's those moments where she'll just say, you just have glowed up so
well and it's really cute.
Y'all got a really sweet relationship, but, but we had to build that.
We did.
And I remember being referee at, at several occasions, several occasions in looking at
the two of you and saying, do not give up on her.
And then looking at her and saying, you can't push him away because I have been the product
of a divorced home.
And then the, the stepchild and pushing myself down away.
And, and, and then him just kind of like doing that, like focusing on my mom.
And, but then the moments coming into my life and, and where I really needed a dad, he would
step up to the plate.
But I kept looking at you and saying, I don't need you just to step up on a plate.
Like I need you to own the plate.
Like you can't just come up on the plate when you're ready.
Like you need to, hi, your dad.
This is what we're doing.
There is no steps and haves and twice removes in our world.
This is you are family and this is how we do this.
And teaching Gabri in that same space, she still, you know, after 12 years does not call
you dad, but you are dad.
Yeah.
She treats me as she treats you as dad.
She has a very high respect for you.
There are in, and I joke, but I joke, but you're laughing because you already know what
I'm about to say.
I, I joke, but guys, I wouldn't have it any other way.
There's most days, most given days anymore.
This beautiful girl of ours will listen to him before she'll listen to me.
And I am, I am absolutely cool.
That doesn't bother me one bit because you and I are on the same page.
We're on the same team.
We're saying the same thing, but it just happens to be coming from dad who you genuinely do
deliver things to her in a place where I can't.
And, and where once upon a time, listen to me, mamas of, of kiddos that are either single
or that are in the verge of relationship and then eventually married.
One of the biggest racks that you can do, okay.
Even the guys that have the babes that are bringing in to single parents.
Okay.
The biggest wreck that you can do is walk up to a new marriage and say, my kids come
before you.
Yeah.
That is the absolute biggest wreck that you can do to your marriage, to that family.
That is not the way that God designed it.
Well, do you know, Luke, like it's my second marriage.
Hi, welcome to our world.
This is who we are.
I I'm going to challenge you and say, no, your marriage comes first.
And when you, when you, when you put that marriage first and when you create that foundation
and you're, you're showing that love and that respect to your spouse, it's teaching that
child that that's what they get to be too.
That's who they get to, how they get to respond to that new parent.
They get to respond in the same way you do.
And then at the same time, you're also teaching them how they one day are going to treat their
spouse and then their children because there's too many times where everything gets out of
order.
And then you wonder why, like, it's just not as solid as it could be.
Cause I mean, I, again, I don't know where it is and I could be completely missing the
mark on this, but I'm pretty sure in the Bible it talks about, I mean, I know it's mostly
talking about like widows and such.
But you know, like the new husband would come in and marry the woman and all of a sudden
it's like his family.
His family.
That's it.
It's, it's, it's not like a, oh, you now get a new wife and her kids.
Yeah.
No, it's you're now family.
Correct.
You're now taking care of them.
Right.
I mean, I know it's sometimes in some ways it's, it's more of like a caregiver thing,
but it's still, yeah.
Nope.
This is, this is now my family.
Right.
And I'll say, you know, kind of, kind of public kudos, if you will, to you is, you know, I've
seen some marriages, relationships where a single parent comes into it and they look
at their new spouse and say, you're not allowed to discipline my child.
Yeah.
You know, and that, that kind of comes, that kind of goes along with the, I put my kid
above in front of you.
But you know, even if they say, oh, I'm not going to make my child a priority over you,
but that's still my child and you're not allowed to discipline them.
Right.
You know, so it's like, but wait, you know.
But, and I think in that space, okay, cause there's going to be people that go, okay,
then what did you do?
Okay, do you know, what did you do?
What did you guys do?
I looked at you and I said, okay, here's the deal.
This is how I discipline Gabri and you are welcome to come alongside me.
If you see that I do something, maybe out of step, or maybe if you want to call me out
on something, let's go to the side.
Let's have a conversation about it and then let's redirect it.
Let's fix it.
The same with you.
It'd be like, if you handled something that I did not think you handled it properly, or
I'm literally watching our, our sweet girl, like, like either blow up or it just not working
out in that space.
She's not responding.
Well, it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, let's hold on, let's back up from this situation and
let's try again.
And that's, that's hard, but it's worth it because what you're doing is you're creating,
you're creating expectations, you're creating boundaries.
You're also creating a safe space, not just for the child, but for that parent.
And you're also showing that child that mom and dad.
Or a team.
Are a team.
You're a unified force.
And in a way that kind of goes back.
I think I said this, we said this a couple episodes ago when we were like, when we were
talking about dating, but you know, I think this is one of those conversations that you
have when you're courting, you know, or, you know, and, and also not or, and also when
you're newly married, you know, before you have kids, but you know, especially courting,
you know, when one of you is a single, a single parent, I almost said single spouse.
That's not right.
That's not, you know, but again, those conversations of, Hey, when we become parents, what kind
of parents are we going to be?
What's, you know, what, how are we going to discipline our child?
You know, where's the line?
You know, and, and also keeping in mind that every child is different.
Yeah.
You know, every child is going to respond different.
Every child is going to respond to discipline different.
Yes.
You know, so again, it was, yes, that was one of those conversations that we had to
have almost immediately.
Yes.
Very, very early in the process, we had to have that conversation versus, you know, a
couple that's getting together and they don't have children and they're planning on, okay,
well in three to five years, we're going to have kids.
You know, okay, fine.
You have at least three to five years to have these conversations.
Right.
And then you have it almost day one.
Yes.
Um, and that's okay.
Yeah.
You know, but again, have that conversation, have those conversations, talk about those
things.
You know, it's, they're not the fun, joyful laughter, hurting my side conversations that's
all about hearts and butterflies and rainbows screaming through the sky, but they're the
necessary conversations.
They're the, they're the kingdom conversations.
They're the conversations that's going to cause your relationship to be strong and last.
Yes.
You know, we're, we're having a conversation today with my parents at lunch talking about
how they've been married for 51 years, over 51 years.
It's beautiful.
You know, and then my mom's parents were married 50 years.
My dad's parents were still not a hundred percent sure, but they were married somewhere
around 50 years.
Yeah.
Either just shy of, or just over.
Yeah.
You know, so it's like, you're looking at that kind of legacy.
You're looking at those marriages that are lasting.
You know, I want to say your mom and dad, you know, probably what over 40 years.
Yeah.
I think, uh, yeah, yeah.
Cause they got married when I was nine.
Yeah.
Um, I'll be 49.
You're about to turn 49?
Babe.
Listen, y'all.
Yeah.
I, I, I take gift cards and I will put my cash up up.
I'm about, yes, on the 31st of May, I am going to be turning 49.
My parents got married when I was nine.
And um, yes, here's the funny, funny.
Haha is my, my mom and my stepdad.
Um, he's been my dad since I was nine and, uh, for a season they were divorced.
They divorced for about three years, stayed friends and then got remarried.
So, um, so, so not their heart skip a beat, but so did their marriage.
I will let you tell them that joke.
She will laugh because she's got a fantastic sense of humor.
She really does.
Um, I don't fall far from her tree.
It's fine.
Uh, but she's, uh, she's so as much as we say that three years has kind of been like
ejected out, so less than 49 years, they have been together off and on.
Yes.
For 49 years.
That's a 40, 40.
Yeah.
40 years.
That's, that's a, that's a big deal.
That's a big deal.
So it is, and it's, it's, um, it's, it's like, I'm looking, you know, was it hard, easy?
What were the challenges?
What was the fun part?
Like we're going over all of it.
You guys can really, yeah, it's, it's like, you guys can decipher it for what it is.
What was the fun part?
The fun part was that, I don't know.
Part of me just goes, you just finally just say, this is it.
This is what we're doing.
And I got to be honest, like the first couple of years, it was a lot of yelling in our house.
There was a lot of, um, uh, a lot of raised voices, a lot of slamming doors, a lot of,
a lot of crying, a lot of, um, out of control, uh, moments.
And, and so when we tell you guys like, yes, we did the courtship.
Yes.
Our foundation is built on certain things, but it was almost like, let's, let's kind
of what you're looking at.
Sorry.
Yeah.
I just, I had an image in my head, an image just pop in my head to kind of explain what
our first years of marriage were like.
Okay.
A blacksmith.
A blacksmith heating and hammering three different pieces of metal together.
Man, babe.
I mean, I know earlier we talked about the triple rated court, you know, the man, the
wife and Jesus, but bringing your family together, it was like the process of us coming together
as a family.
It was, it was like, man, because you, you, cause that metal has to get heated so high.
Yeah.
And the hammer does not come down gently.
Yeah.
You know, sparks fly.
There's sweat, there's soreness, there's just, there's noise.
Yeah.
And you know, but, but at the end you've got a beautiful product that lasts.
Man.
Aw.
Man.
Cause when I was trying to explain it, like it's funny you say, it's not even funny that
you say it because I immediately thought of gold, like being purified, like the dross
coming to the top.
And again, we've got some of our listeners, like again, guys, it's not even like, you
might be married for quite some time and you guys have hit a space and you're standing
back going, okay, now what?
Let the heat come on, you know, let, let the Holy spirit comment and refine the places,
you know, because every season, you know, is even though there might be hard seasons,
there might be fun seasons, there might be easy, what seems to be easy seasons.
The fact is that every season it comes with something and, and you get to, you get to
rediscover something that's inside of this person.
I say this all the time to our children, like you literally have the potential of heaven
residing inside of you and God has planted everything inside of you, that everything
that you're going to be and all the things that you're going to become and the stuff
that you get to do and, and just all of the beauty and all of the giftings of who you
are is literally, he put it in your DNA when he made you, formed you in your mother's womb,
wonderfully, fearfully made, right?
So knowing that there is literally everything inside of you, people are like, yeah, but
then you, you grow and you learn.
Yeah, but God, he, he graced you with certain things inside of you.
And so I'm not saying that you're not learning.
I'm saying that like those things are sprouting, they're taking root, they're unearthing themselves.
And then sometimes like our backyard as for instance, our home is over 20 years old.
Things that were planted here by the previous owners are starting to fade away.
Their time has, it's come to an end.
The beauty and the stature of this tree, okay, it's now needs to go.
And so it's like, even though there may be some things that you stand back and say, wow,
that's not even the same, or maybe, wow, that, that, that seems to be dying.
What if that's in, that's the intent?
I'm not talking about your marriage.
I'm not talking about your family, but I'm talking about maybe this is a, this is a season
of your life.
Maybe this is just who you've been for so long.
Maybe this business transaction or maybe this career or maybe this, this pathway that you've
been going.
And then all of a sudden you're standing at a crossroad and you're saying, now what?
What's the next step father?
And he's like, I want you to drop off that thing.
And I want you to start unearthing the thing that I have created for the next leg of your
journey.
Yeah.
And that, so, so the 10 minutes of our explanation at the beginning of our podcast today was
literally you guys listening to us as we're saying, wow, I'm going to cry.
And it's about those moments that embracing, embracing the moments when it brings a tear
to your eye to know the things that you've dropped off, the things that you've picked
up.
Yeah.
And it doesn't mean that they've been wasted.
Not at all.
The enemy is going to tell you that those time, that time has been wasted.
Even the hard, even the stuff that you go, man, that shouldn't have happened.
Nothing is wasted in the kingdom.
There's nothing wasted.
Learn from that moment.
Rejoice in that moment.
Appreciate, celebrate, grieve.
Like you said at the beginning, grieve.
But then don't let it keep you there.
Don't stay there.
Don't stay in that grief.
Bless it.
Thank it.
And then keep walking.
Thank him.
Thank him for getting you through it.
And then lean into him knowing that he has nothing but good.
Yeah.
And he will grace you and he will equip you and he will bring people along the way with
you to remind you that you can do this.
You will do this and you will succeed and it will be better than what you even asked,
thought or imagined.
That's right.
Amen.
That's good.
Tissue.
Yes.
I think we hit it.
Yeah.
Let today be the beginning of a new day.
Yes.
And let today be the start of the chapter that gets to unfold of you.
That gets to unfold in front of you even tomorrow.
Yes.
Trust him.
Yeah.
And when you don't know, take a deep breath in, let it out and then just be still and
let him be God.
Yes.
Have the best week, guys.
Enjoy the journey.