Hello and welcome to another episode of Upfront and Undivided with Luke and Dean'na!
Hi.
Hey babe.
How's it going?
It's good.
How are you?
I'm good.
It's been a second since we've been here.
It has been a second.
Hi everybody.
Hi.
We're back.
It's like we celebrated episode 100.
We had pizza.
We did.
And then we took a break.
We did.
But it was a productive break.
Very productive.
Do you want to tell everybody what we've been up to?
I mean what we've been up to is in addition to the cleaning and organizing spaces of our
house, we have taken steps to start the process of getting certified as relationship coaches.
Come on.
Yes.
It's exciting.
Yes it is.
So it's like for those that have been following along and for maybe those that haven't been
following along.
So we've been talking about books, which we're in the process of that.
It seems like the subject in my brain keeps changing on the book.
Yeah.
And that's fine.
And it is fine.
I think it's fine.
It's a process.
It's a journey.
It is a journey.
And that's kind of probably going to be one of the titles of something along the way.
And then we were kind of encouraged, tagged something that we had already been talking
about for over a year now as far as being marriage mediators.
Yeah.
Marriage mediators, marriage coaches.
Marriage coaches.
And then we've been on the hunt how to sit down with one of our amazing favorite people,
pastors and his beautiful, amazing wife and just kind of laid it out and said, this is
our thoughts.
This is our heart.
There's a great need in the church, not just for the marriages, but there's a great need.
There's a great need across the board.
You're right.
But it just, it's that space of, we were recognizing more and more, it's not just marriages, it's
families, it's friends, it's people, right?
It's people needing to learn how to better maneuver and communicate with the people that
they love.
And so we went on a journey.
We found a great online, something for, I get to be the guinea pig.
I'm starting this out and then you get to follow behind me.
Yeah.
Possibly.
And read over all your notes.
Take all of my stuff, do all of the things.
And then we'll just keep moving and just keep building and keep asking the Holy Spirit to
guide us and show us what the next step is.
But it's just good.
It's just really good.
And it's us putting our hand to the plow, our feet to the fire and saying, we genuinely
believe that our marriage has been and is a good example for others.
And we just want to be able to share some tips and tools to make every relationship
because the foundations that we have in our marriage very much translate over to even
our children.
And I believe we have a very good, solid communication relationship with our kids.
We can talk to them just about anything.
We can talk to them about anything, whether they want to have a conversation about just
about anything.
But the fact is that they know that they can.
And that's important.
So that's what we have been working on.
That's why you guys have not seen us for a second.
And then in the middle of that, there was a women's conference.
There was a women's conference.
It occupied a lot of our time outside of normal stuff.
It's true.
It was Awaken the Warriors.
It was a good weekend.
It was a very good weekend.
So it was just a lot.
And you're in the middle of projects, working projects and doing things and building that
big, beautiful brain as you build things.
And our kids, one of them having a surgery and the other one starting baseball.
It's just life has gotten busy, but it's a good busy.
And we hope that everybody just cruises along on this fun little journey with us.
So glad you guys are here.
Thanks for sticking around.
And the next several weeks, month or two.
I think month at the most.
You think a month at the most?
Yeah.
Or maybe just a year over a month.
We actually polled.
It's going to be a several part series.
Our friends and asked them to send in some questions for us.
Because part of us is like, we love these interviews.
We love getting a chance to, but we're also in the vein of what do you guys want to talk
about?
Like, what do you want to have a conversation about?
And even though it's you and I talking, when we're answering these questions for our friends,
it's us bringing them to the table, even though they're kind of a silent.
Interviewer.
Yeah.
So it's almost like we're getting interviewed.
Yeah.
So we asked some questions and we do.
We have roughly, I don't know, probably a good month, a little over a month's worth.
Oh, and the first week of weekend of May, we're going to be MIA.
Because why, babe?
I mean, we're going to, I plan on recording.
Are you going to record us?
Okay.
I'm going to plan on recording.
Okay.
So it'll be the like movie magic.
But yeah, but yes, our anniversary is coming up.
So and somebody at work, I was telling that our, it's going to be our 12th anniversary.
Yeah.
He was jealous because I beat him because he's only at 11.
So so let's talk about that just for a second, because we've been, we've been very blessed
with having this opportunity to just share with everybody and have everybody come in
and talk to us.
But there are some days where you and I are like, are we even doing anything here?
Are we even really making a difference?
Yeah.
And you said, we know, we know we've got people that listen to us.
We truly appreciate all of you.
Yes, we do.
You know, there, there are times though that there's, there's the, I mean, I'll say it's
almost like the, the worldly person, the worldly part of me that like, you know, oh, but we're
not getting, you know, like over a hundred downloads per episode, or we're not, you know,
getting like massive audience, you know, but it's like, I know it's going to happen because
ultimately I know this is what God has told us to do.
Right.
You know, for until he tells us to stop, this is what God has told us to do.
And you know what?
We are going to be obedient and this is, this is what we are supposed to talk about.
And this is, this is what we've been called to.
So we will, we will talk because I'll be honest, I feel more comfortable talking to a microphone
in a dark room than in front of a group of people.
And I'm all for it.
Let's go.
It means I get to go shopping and get new shoes.
That's right.
But you, you said that you actually had somebody approach you from work.
Yeah.
All places.
So I had a coworker approach me cause he said, cause somehow this podcast came up in conversation
and or he hadn't known about it.
And he was like, yeah, that's really awesome.
I want you to know that you challenged me.
I was like, what?
I'm like, like in my mind, I'm like, do you, you listen?
Do you listen?
What's going on?
And he said, he said, you challenged me without anything you said, without you knowing it.
Cause he's like, one day I was, you know, I was, I was walking outside of work and I
saw you getting out of the car.
Your wife was driving.
So you get out of the passenger side, you come around, she gets out of the car, you
give her a kiss goodbye.
And he's like, I could tell you guys loved each other.
And then next words out of his mouth.
He's like, but now I am petty.
He's like, I'm petty and competitive.
This is fantastic.
And he's like, now there is no way that Luke loves his wife more than I love my wife.
So he decided that he was going to go and start making sure that he was kissing his
wife, letting her know that she loved him.
I absolutely loved him.
And that she didn't have any doubts in her mind.
She did start questioning like what is going on?
But he's like, look, so he told me, he's like, listen, you are challenging and influencing
people whether you know it or not.
That reminder that people are watching whether you know it or not, whether it's us, whether
it's you, whether it's anybody, you know, pastor, people on the street.
People are watching your actions, our actions and will go from there.
Yeah.
So yeah, that's powerful.
That was fun story.
I love that.
I love that because it lines up with what our beautiful girl has said.
And I'm pretty certain that I have shared this before, but if I haven't, that she herself
has said, like, you guys look married.
Yeah.
She'll come across different people that, you know, like either church or just in passing.
And all of a sudden she's like, oh, wait, they're married?
I didn't know they were married.
You can't tell that they're married.
And it's like, I know that we did a, I know we did a podcast of D, you know, do you look
married or whatever, but it was, it was just, how do you interact?
You know, even our children, right?
Like our children know that they're loved, know that when they come into a space with
us, that they, they are important, you know, that there's nothing else that it, that outweighs
them in that space.
And it's just like, does, does whoever it is that you are in that confines with or that
you're in that space with, do they know that you care?
Right.
And you're going to, and they're going to know you, they're going to know you by your
love for one another.
They're going to know you by your actions.
So that's where it all comes down to.
I love that.
So that's a fun story.
That is a fun story.
Yeah.
So if, if, if your coworker is listening, no, you cannot be loving your wife more than
my husband loves me.
It's just Luke wins.
I win.
Yeah.
At least by another year.
See now, now it's just, now we're going to get them all stoked.
It's fine.
Okay, babe.
So do you want me to just, how do you want to do this?
Well, first off, I know that we kind of said what we're going to be doing.
So I'm labeling this series questions from the audience.
I love that.
Super simple, you know, kind of reminded me of, you know, back in the day when we would
watch, you know, who wants to be a millionaire, you know, pull the audience.
Pull the audience.
So this is, so this is questions from the audience.
Part one.
Yeah.
So, um, this comes from, I suppose I can say who it comes from, you think?
Yeah.
I don't think it's a problem or I'll leave it.
I'll leave it at an on.
Yeah.
Leave it at an on.
I'll leave it at an on.
It's fine.
And I'm going to, I'm going to say, I'm going to suggest read the whole three part question
the whole three part and then we'll attack part by part.
You got it.
Okay.
So from, I'll just say from one of my besties and those that know me know you're in my sphere.
You're, you're one of my favorite people.
It just says, so, um, she says, what is a healthy age to begin dating?
Is a length of dating time up to the couple?
And how do you know when it's marriage time?
And those are really good questions.
Very, very good questions.
And I'm like, we have a nine year olds and a 19 year old.
So part of me kind of goes like, do we have, do we even have an opinion here?
Our daughter.
Okay.
So when I was raised, when I was growing up, my mom said that I was not allowed to date
until I was 16.
Was there an age?
Yep.
My parents were the same with my sister and I 16.
Okay.
So in my mind, I'm like, for the most part, you're able to drive, you're able to go do
things.
Um, and that's what we said to Gabri.
Yeah.
You know, we said 16 is the limit.
Yeah.
You know, so, but I've, I've known other couples, other families that have said 18.
Yeah.
You know, and you know, I think, I think that's one of those things that.
Me, I would, I would encourage parents to, to sit and have that conversation with each
other of where do we want to draw that line for our kids?
Yeah.
You know, I mean, have it, have it be a conversation between you as spouses, have it be a conversation
with you and the Lord, you know, if, if you just kind of say, you know, we're going to,
we're going to see how our kids are and go from there, you know, because some kids are
a little more mature and can handle stuff.
You know, let's say, you know, I've seen 18 year olds that are less mature and responsible
than 15 year olds.
Yes.
You know, and so it's, it's, you know, I don't want to sit there and say, well, it's up to
the kid, you know, when they feel they're ready, they're ready.
But you know, I would say somewhere in that 18 or 16 to 18.
I think that's, I think that's a good level.
Yeah.
A good bar.
Yeah.
So I like, I like what you're saying because, um, cause I always go back to it and dating
and getting a cell phone kind of are not the same.
We understand that, but it kind of is like, what is your responsibility level?
Are you, are you mature enough to handle?
I would even go as far as because it's like, what is a healthy age to begin dating?
Like in my brain, the scientific part of you says your, your frontal lobe hasn't even developed
fully until you're like 25 or 26.
And I'm not going to say not to date somebody before then.
And on average males are in puberty until they're 38, 30, almost 30.
Yeah.
Um, having those kinds of factors in, I would say with a healthy dating, I think what makes
a healthy age to begin a dating, I think you need to also put not just healthy age, but
healthy dating because, um, you and I had boundaries.
We had guidelines.
Um, I, I know that we've shared this with our daughter.
She's even when she was able to date, like she didn't, um, until I don't know, 17, 17,
almost 18 years old.
Um, and then it, and it was, uh, you will have a, you have a curfew.
Um, there's, you know, obviously there's certain spaces that you want to be in and certain
spaces you don't, you're not going to go into the opposite sex's bedroom.
You're not.
Yeah.
It's, it's down to, you know, where are those boundaries?
What are you, you know, you know, what, what are the boundaries and expectations that you
were setting for your child?
Right.
Knowing that the, the patterns and behaviors that you as mom and dad are doing and, and
you know, are, are portraying in the household is what your child or children are going to
mimic.
Right.
And they're going to mirror, you know, whether or not, you know, it will be the do as I,
you know, it, they will do as you do.
They will not necessarily do as you say.
Correct.
So, so yeah, I, I would say it's a lot of it is prayer.
Yeah.
A lot of conversations because I mean, I would even start that conversation around the time
of do we want to have kids?
You know, because I, in my mind, that's, that's one of those questions along with how are
we going to discipline our child?
Yes.
You know, after the child is born, you know, it's the, you know, do we, do we want a home
school?
Do we want a private school?
Do we want a public school?
You know, some of those questions about how they're raised, I think that early should
start the, the, the question of when is a good healthy age for dating?
Because again, it's, it's, there is no universal age.
There is no, there is no magical miracle, you know, knowledge that, you know, it's,
we were joking the other day, you know, it's, it's not like as soon as you turn 18, you
get like all the knowledge of the world and you know how to run things.
I now have my life together, I'm 18.
There are a lot of 18 year olds that think like that, but it's not necessarily true.
Right.
So I think, you know, again, it's, it needs to be an agreed upon conversation, a big,
big conversation.
And then, you know, you, you kind of teach your children leading up to that point about
what is a healthy relationship?
What is healthy dating look like?
What is, what should dating look like?
You know, talk about talking about boundaries, talking about expectations, you know, so I
think again, that needs to be that big long term conversation.
Yeah.
Because what did you say to me the other day?
Remember you were talking about young ladies are raised to, oh, yes.
It was, it was something that I saw.
It was men are raised being taught how to treat women, but not taught what to expect
from women.
Whereas a lot of women are taught what to expect from a man, but not taught how to treat
a man.
And it is, it's, it's, and it's very true because again, you know, it's, there, there
are things that, that men are taught about women, but they're not really taught, you
know, again, there, a lot of people are not taught what a healthy relationship is.
Right.
You know, they're taught this is, you know, for, for men, that's like, this is what you
will do that you will provide.
You will, you know, safety and security and shelter and you will, you know, be the bread
winner and you will do this.
You will take the hits, you know, all of that, you know, but it's never, this is,
this is the, Hey, look for the green flags.
You know, again, everybody talks about, watch out for the red flags, but nobody really teaches.
These are what green flags look like.
Yeah.
You know, these are, these are the positive qualities that you need to hunt out in a relationship.
Yes.
Yeah.
You know, we, we always joke funny, not funny, you know, serious kidding.
We know what unhealthy relationships are.
You know, we in our own personal lives have experienced numerous unhealthy relationships.
Yes.
You know, so, so we can bring that to the table when we talk to Gabri, eventually when
we talk to Sebastian about what does a healthy relationship look like?
Yeah.
What are the green flags you should look for?
Yeah.
I know there are some people that have not been blessed with the experience of unhealthy
relationships.
But again, it's, it's almost back to the, the, you know, the, the testimony of I've
loved Jesus from day one.
I've never tasted Egypt.
It's like right there.
That is, that is the ultimate green flag to look for.
Yeah.
You know, you know, the green flags, you know, because of your relationship with God that
you've had from day one, you know, the green flags to look for, you know, dear God, show
me what the green flags are.
Okay.
Yes.
That's good.
No, I love that.
So I think that to reiterate, like I do, I'm, I'm, I'm in the firm boat of 16, just, I
think just 16 at the absolute earliest, but that ultimately is the discretion of, you
know, the parent is the length of dating time up to the couple.
So I'm kind of curious, like I'm not, I'm not quite sure what they're asking is the
length of dating time up to the couple.
How do you know when it's marriage time?
So I'm wondering if maybe those two are going to coincide.
I feel like they are, you know, because it is, it's, it's the, you know, how long should
you be together before you know, or how long is, you know, how long is too long before
you should realize that it's not going to go towards marriage?
Yeah.
And I think that that kind of stems back to how healthy is that relationship from the
beginning?
What kind of foundation?
I've got something there.
What kind of foundation are you pouring out in order for the relationship as far as the
length of the couple?
Yeah.
Go ahead.
I will, I will give my super simple answer of is the length of dating time up to the
couple?
Absolutely not.
Yeah.
It is up to God.
It is up to Jesus.
Oh, come on, babe.
I was ready for you to say something about the parent, but now you're talking about God.
I will say it is up to God's timing.
I love that.
Yeah.
I love that.
You know, and, and yeah, I, it's like, I want to say, you know, some people probably think
that I'm saying that tongue in cheek, but I'm really, I'm really not, you know, because,
because it is, it's a healthy relationship, especially a healthy Christian relationship
is you are doing this to glorify God.
Yes.
The only thing that you're doing is to glorify God.
Yeah.
And, you know, therefore your relationship, your eventual marriage, you know, your, your
family should all reflect the goodness of God, the glory of God.
Yeah.
It should reflect a picture of the kingdom.
Yeah.
You know, God, you know, in, in what, in scripture, it talks about how we, the church are a picture
of the bride and Christ is the groom.
Right.
And, and we, as people are prepared for that eventual marriage to the groom.
And so, I mean, even that, you know, the, the church to the kingdom is, is a picture
of marriage.
So why shouldn't our earthly relationships, marriages, why shouldn't that also reflect
that image?
Yeah.
Because why are we saying, okay, church is one thing, worship, you know, pray, that's
all to God.
But, you know, relationships, you know, just God doesn't need to be in your relationship.
God doesn't need to be in your dating.
Oh, no, no, he needs to be dead center.
Yeah.
Foundation.
Because, I mean, I've, I've seen, we, we've both seen, you know, some people, they can
be together for a month or two, get married and all of a sudden, next thing you know,
they're celebrating 50, 75 years.
51 for your parents.
51 for my parents.
Yeah.
In a couple of days.
Tell the love story.
So my parents met while they were in the military.
My dad was in his training, his tech school.
My mom was, it was her first duty assignment.
They were in the middle of nowhere, Illinois.
My dad was performing.
He was singing and playing his guitar in a coffee house and my mom basically picked him
up.
It's the cutest thing.
Yes, it really is.
About three months later, my dad was done with school and was getting orders to go somewhere
and they looked at each other and said, well, we can take the chance of running into each
other again sometime or we can get married and see what happens.
And they got married.
I think maybe one or two people from my mom's side of the family was able to make it to
the wedding.
Yeah.
But they got married on base and just, and it is, here it is.
51 years later, they're still married.
And they're adorable.
They are.
They're fun to watch.
It has not always been hearts and sunshine, flowers and rainbows.
They've had their rough years.
They've had their lean years.
They raised two kids that are, for the most part, pretty well adjusted.
I mean, I like you.
Your sister's cool too, but I like you.
But yeah, so it's like, I know people that can date for a short time and it works out.
I know other people that they can date for three, four, five years, decide to get married
and a year or two later, they're already talking about divorce.
Yeah, it's crazy.
There is no, again, just like with the dating, there's no magic formula.
There's no, oh, well you hit this mark, so therefore that's good to go.
I heard once a majority of men will know within the first four to six weeks of a relationship
whether or not it has a future.
Okay.
And I can, yeah, you're pretty stunned about that.
Can you testify to that?
I can, yeah.
What week did you-
I don't know.
I didn't keep a journal or diary back then.
I don't now, but I make it sound like, look at me writing in my journal every night.
Oh, today, dear diary.
Babe.
But you knew.
I did.
Eventually you knew.
I knew pretty early on.
I was going to say, mine was pretty quick.
Yeah.
I mean, I'd say early on, it wasn't necessarily did I know that I was 100% going to marry
you, but I knew that there was some type of future.
Okay.
You know, that at least, yes, I need to pursue this and see what's going on.
Yeah.
Again, I had help from God, a lot of help from God.
I mean, we both did.
It's just what it boils down to.
We both did.
Yeah.
So again, it's kind of cheesy.
It's kind of a cop out, but it is.
I don't think it is, no.
What are you two praying about?
Are you praying?
Are you praying together?
Oh, yeah.
I mean, because again, it's like early on, while we were courting and all, and I'll put
in a little plug for that, are people dating or are people courting?
Because dating is you're just hanging to have a good time.
Courting you are together and you're moving towards a destination.
I mean, it's almost like dating on a purpose.
You are dating on purpose, yes.
You're holding yourself to a higher standard.
But again, in your relationship, it's not just important that you go off and pray, I
go off and pray, but are we coming together and praying?
If we go to church together, are we worshiping together?
Are we getting prayer together?
Are we getting prayer roughly at the same time?
Not necessarily together, but are we on the prayer floor, burying our souls before God
saying, God, fix me.
Deal with me.
Fix me, deal with me.
Are you doing that or are you just hanging out?
We're just hanging out quietly on the couch watching movies and that's our dating.
Well, we watch all these movies together while we're scrolling through our phones, so that's
us dating.
And it's like, no, that's not communicating.
That's not having a conversation.
That's not a relationship.
Or you're making out.
I mean, we'll just put it where it is, I really like the way that they make me feel.
I've heard that one a lot.
I really like the way that he makes me feel.
I'm like, okay, but is there substance?
Does he bring substance to the plate?
Do you bring substance to the plate?
Is this just you guys are physically, you have chemistry?
Because physical chemistry is beautiful.
That was my first marriage.
Physical chemistry, yeah, that was good.
That's about as far as it went.
You kind of don't, I mean, that's it, right?
Like, okay, we have some things in common.
Okay, that's great.
Is there anything, do you have any common goals?
Do you have something that you're both striving for?
We're not saying you have to be the same person.
You don't have to have the same life situation, but there are some definite things when it
comes to marriage.
You nailed it before.
Like, how are we going to, if we have children, do you want children?
If we do have children, how are we raising children?
Do you, oh, you want me to be home now?
Well, I was moving towards having a career and being a business person.
Let's talk about what kind of career do you want?
Let's talk about finances.
Bring those kinds of things into it.
Do we want to have, what kind of financial health do we want to have in our marriage?
It's a lot of those questions that I feel need to happen.
Yes.
Together.
You can have them guided at times, but ultimately you need to have a whole lot of these conversations
together.
Yeah.
And it's so funny because you'll hear people say, man, that's just not romantic.
Who cares?
With all due respect, guys, like anybody that's been in marriage for however many years, for
any period of time, like even our daughter, you know, she'll listen to us, like literally
go over our grocery list or just something.
Is this what marriage is?
Well, I mean, no, but yeah.
Like, I mean, this is, you're running with your best friend.
You're kicking around.
You're having a good time, but you're living life and you're making life decisions.
And hey, guess what?
Groceries is part of that life decision.
What would you like to have for dinner tonight?
Oh, I don't know.
Let's make some pizzas for the kids and just.
Yeah.
It's not all, you know, hey, do we want to go, you know, do we want to go skydiving this
weekend or do we go want to go rent quads?
You know, it's, you know, hey, Sam's is open for another three hours.
We need to get going.
We do.
Yes.
You know, and, and I, there can be those moments of, you know, the hearts and the flowers and
the butterflies.
Again, our anniversary trip is coming up and we are all sorts of squishy about it.
We are, you know, but again, there, there will be those lean, those rocky, you know,
those, oh my gosh.
I if, if, if she breathed like that one more time, I am going to start swinging.
You know, there will be those thoughts.
You are right.
There will be those thoughts.
And how do you handle those thoughts coming into your head?
Do you smile and say, good morning?
I love you.
Or do you just, do you just crumble and walk out the room?
Yes.
You know, it depends on the day.
Right.
And you go, I, and then you send them a meme that says, um, I need you to not breathe quite
as loud.
Right.
And make them laugh and go, oh, sorry.
Yes.
You know, yes.
You know, but it is.
And, and you know, I know I've heard stories, um, you know, some, some churches and some
pastors are really good at premarital counseling, counseling when it comes to this.
Um, I've, I've heard, uh, some are not, you know, and you know, it, again, it's, I, I think,
I think it has to be what, what kind of couple are you looking at?
Yeah.
You know, because sometimes age is a really big factor on should there be a lot of premarital
counseling or should there not be premarital, you know, or, you know, a lot versus a little,
sorry, not a lot or none that there should be.
Everybody should have some.
There, there, there will be, um, you know, and cause again, not, but I'm not saying,
you know, all young couples need a whole lot of marriage counseling.
Yeah.
So again, have those meetings and find out where is the couple.
Yeah.
You know, it's not just, okay, well, you've got three sessions with me, you know, three
hour long sessions and then we'll get married and you're good to go.
Yeah.
Um, you know, so I, I do, I, it feels like a lot of this episode is, you know, conversations,
you know, the first, you know, when, when should they, a healthy age for healthy dating,
you know, parents need to have that conversation.
A lot of conversations about that.
And if you're somebody that is already out of the house, right?
Yeah.
You're at a certain age.
Um, again, like we have our nine year old, we have our 19 year old, um, looking at her
and saying, there's certain expectations that you want and it's, it's healthy.
This is what healthy looks like.
Yeah.
And you're not like, we see that, um, the list, the girl, the videos of the girls with
a list of this guy better not take me out on this place and this place and this place
for our first date.
And it's like, I'm not talking about that.
I'm talking about, is he gentle?
Is he kind?
Does, does he love God?
Does he, does he seem to blow off the handle really quickly?
Like, Oh, tell them about your, um, uh, your coworker.
He was over people and they were always wanting to get married.
And what did, what?
I wasn't going to tell that yet.
I was going to wait till the next one.
Oh, okay.
I was going to wait till the next part.
Which one?
The next, how do you know when it's time to when it's marriage time?
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
Okay.
Well we can move on then.
We can move on to that.
Let me, let me back up a little bit.
Cause you were talking about lists.
Yeah.
Um, I do think it's important, you know, again, back with the healthy dating and the length
of dating time. I encourage males and females to make lists, but not the, you know, needs
to be a certain height, needs to make a certain amount of money, needs to drive a certain
car. Not the list of, well, he needs to give me this ring, otherwise I'm not saying yes
to the proposal. But have the list of, is he gentle? Is he kind? Is he spirit-filled?
Is that important to you? You know, does he want kids? You know, make that list. Is she
naggy? Is she naggy? Is she kind? Will she be my cheerleader? How does she speak to the
waiter or the waitress? How does she respond in whatever situation? Make that list. Yeah.
Make that list. Yeah. Because one of the young ladies that lived with us for a season, for
about three years, she had her absolute best friend. It was her buddy, her ride or die.
And all of a sudden she wakes up one day and is like, oh, I have feelings, I think. And
the thing that you said, like, cause she had a list, which was really sweet, cause she
wouldn't even went over the list with our sweet girl. And she's like, well, this is
everything that he is, you know, kind of thing. And you just looked at her and you said, would
you trust him to pray for you? Yeah. Like, do you trust him with your heart? Not just
your heart, but also your spiritual life? Do you trust him? And she unequivocally, absolutely
yes. Yeah. Okay. Well, then I think you have your answer. Yeah. If this is somebody that
you literally can be your absolute best and your absolute worst and somebody that can
challenge you and somebody that can encourage you, somebody that can say, you're having
a rough day or somebody that can come alongside you and say, Hey, we're better than that.
Let's keep moving. Right. Like that's the kind of person that you want in your life.
That's the, that's that to me are, are the healthy boundaries that you want to have surrounding
you. You want somebody that doesn't complete you because you are a complete person. You
are a complete, listen to me guys, you are a complete person. This is not a 50 50 situation.
He doesn't give 50%. I don't give her 50%. It's a hundred percent, a hundred percent.
We are complete people. God already completes us. Don't do that to a person. Don't, don't
do that to a friend. Don't do that to a church. Don't do that to yourself. Don't do that to
yourself. Don't do that. Um, but what that does is that person comes alongside you and
they bring the best out of you. They, they, they enhance you. They enhance you. Yeah.
You know, it's uh, yeah. You know, when you were saying that, you know, when you, when
you're, when you are dating, when you are courting, you know, when you think about hanging
out with this person, you know, does that bring a smile to your face? Does, does it
make you want to kind of like skip down the road a little bit or is it, okay, let's go.
Yeah. Yucky. You know, but there are, there are some dating relationships that that's
what it is. Yeah. You know, they, they, they, they feel tired from hanging out and dating
this person. And it's like, and why are you hanging around that? Yeah. Yeah. You know,
well, they're a good guy. It's like, okay, cool. Thanks. Are you sure? Yeah. Blink twice
if you need help. Exactly. Okay. So the last, the last question then, and I apparently almost
jumped in front of you. So how do you know when it's marriage time? Yes. How do you know?
Cause I thought you were just going to tell me if it's just because of God, which is true.
It is true. But how do you know when it's marriage time? God will tell you. Sorry. You
said it. I had to, I had to say, um, so yeah, so as, as you started telling, um, I've got,
I've got a good, another good friend that's a coworker, um, really cool guy. Very, very
colorful stories. He hangs out with a lot of veterans guys. I do. I work with a lot
of veterans. Oh, you do. I do. It's fun. Um, a lot of fun stories, a lot of fun experiences
that they tell. Um, so this, this friend, he was in the Navy and I don't know if it's
still policy, but for the longest time, uh, because the Navy goes out and they are on
ships for six months at a time, they have to be careful with who they're getting married
to. So they had to, uh, when my, when my buddy was a supervisor in the Navy, there was a
policy that you had to get permission from your supervisor before you got married. And
he was taught by another, uh, mentor of his, and he put it into practice with all of his
people under him that anytime somebody came up and said, Patty officer, I, I want to get
married. You know, I've, I have found the one I have found the one. And he said it was
really funny because there was a, I guess an Irish, a guy of Irish descent that, you
know, had the accent, had the blonde hair and everything. Yeah. You know, my buddy's
like, oh yeah, the women would just flock to him because of the accent. Oh, of course.
And he said probably once a month, he was like, I found the one I found the one. It's
like, okay. Um, so his thing, his, his advice was go on a road trip with somebody and not
just, you know, like 45 minute, you know, go, go somewhere. He said, go somewhere. That's
at least five hours there, five hours back. He said, do that because that is, that is
a real test. And that is a real good way to judge. Should I marry this person? Do I want
to spend my life with this person? You know, is this person, you know, it, do I, do I enjoy
their company in, in these kinds of confines? Wow. You know, and, and it is, and you know,
he, he's told the story, you know, the Irish guy would come, you know, Friday, I found
the one I found the one. He's like, okay, you know what I'm going to say? He's like,
okay. And then come Monday. Well, are you proposing? No, I made it two hours in and
I couldn't, she was putting her feet on the dash and she was doing this and didn't, nope,
turned right around. You know? And so it is. And, and it's, it's funny because he's telling
the story and I'm sitting there thinking about our relationship and I'm like, you know, we
did that. We did that because so we started courting in February in May. We took it. We
drove down to Texas, which, you know, and down to your brother's house. So it was probably
about eight hours. We were in the car for eight hours. One way. Yeah. Nine, nine hours.
If we, yeah, we had it to my brother. Yeah. Nine hours. So yeah. So eight, nine hours
in a car, a tiny car with a little girl in the backseat. Yup. You know? So it's like,
so and it was, and not just the road trip, but it was the road trip. Me then meeting
your family. Yes. And they didn't like me. Not at first. No, they didn't. They really
did not like me at first. And then it was, you know, eight, nine hours back. Yep. You
know, and it was just, yeah. Yeah. We survived. We did. We did. Look, almost 12 years later,
baby. Oh yeah. I mean, we've been together longer than that, but yeah. That was 13 years
ago. That was 13 years ago. 13 years ago. Yeah. Aw. Aw, babe. Yes. You look at, look
at us now. Look at us now. And I mean, and look at, huh? Who'd have thought? Who would
have thought? Well, I would have. I would have. I've always been fond of you. But it
is, it's, it's one of those where you find out somebody's idiosyncrasies. You find out
the pet peeves. You find out like, do they drive yours a little crazy? Do they do something
a little, cause, cause it's like what you might find endearing in the moment might be
something that absolutely scratches the nails down the chalkboard later and could potentially
be a deal breaker. And it's like, I remember one of our pastors, the one that was actually
counseling us and keeping us accountable is like, what if God comes to you and says, that's
it? What do you do? And we basically said, we say, you know, this was, was, was nice.
We'll see you later. I'll see you at church or whatever. Um, because in that space it
is you, you have to, I think that's a key to, that's gotta be a key factor. If, if it's
time to get married, you know, yes, as far as asking God, if it's time to get married,
but it's like, do you, do you see forever with this person? Is this, is this something
that you say like, cause ultimately there's days and, and we, you and I always say this
with God, we can do this. Right. Um, you and I both know that we can live without each
other. Yes. Right. Like we know this. It's, um, you know, uh, we don't want to, but we
could, we do. And that, that part, it's that part. It's I could live without you, but I
don't want to. I mean, again, when, when I, I mean, I know it wasn't like a massive time
apart, but you know, I went for 45 days down to Puerto Rico to help with hurricane recovery.
Right. It wasn't our favorite month and a half, but we, we survived. We can do it. Yes.
You know? Yeah. But it's not even that, not even just being away from each other, but
it's a thing. It's like, okay, if this person walked away from you today, like, like do,
do you see forever with them? You know, is this something or is it what you see in front
of you? Because that was his other question. Okay. So here's another question for those
that are listening. Um, he said, Dina, if Luke doesn't change or grow from this point,
are you still okay with him? Cause again, I was, I was a new, fairly new Christian at
the time. And I was, there was a whole lot of growth and change going on in my life.
Yeah. And he's, and he's like, if this is, if this is as good as it gets, is that good
enough for you? And I honestly looked at him and said, yes, actually it is. And that was
not me. Um, subtly. I think that that's a big one. You want to make sure that you, you
don't go, well, I mean, I can see us, you know, that he's a good enough guy. It's, it's,
it's, I mean, we don't fight, so we might as well get married. You know, don't, if these
are the kind of conversations that are in your head or if these are the thoughts or,
or you know, we've been together for so long already. So, I mean, we might as well, you
know, she's put in the time. I might as well give her a ring. Gross, gross, but it's true.
Right? Like it's true. We have all this chemistry or, or we had so many people that said we
weren't going to make it and you know what? They were right, but by golly, we're going
to prove them wrong and we're going to get together and do this anyway. And it's like,
just pump the brakes, dude. Or the opposite. Yeah. You know? Well, I mean, everybody says
we we're, we're good together, so we might as well get married. Well, but if, if you're
not feeling it, if you know it's not right, right to heck with what everybody else says.
Right. Right. You know, that they do not have your best intent. They do not have your best
interests involved in their heads. Yeah. Or they have the best interests, but they have
best intentions. That's, but they don't, they don't have your best interests. That's it.
But they don't, they don't know the full situation. Right. It's like it is. So if it's like, even
if you're second guessing, you know, a lot of times, well, you know, you're going to
second guess a little bit. I think so, but not really. I don't think so. I don't think
to the point of what people think. Like there's cold feet. I understand that, but I didn't
have cold feet with you. No cold feet on the first one. Not with you. Right. Like this
is a bad idea. Probably shouldn't be doing this with you. I'm like, let's go. Why are
we not married yet? Let's do this. So I think that there is, there's a difference there.
I think, I think you need to ask hard questions. Yes. You need to ask yourself the hard questions
and you need to be prepared to hear the hard answers. Yeah. And even if it's not, no, it
might be not right now or it's, Hey, maybe it is snow. Yeah. I would, I would also say,
you know, in addition to like a pastor being, um, you know, giving like premarital counseling
or stuff like that, find somebody that's not a pastor to be like a disinterested neutral
third party and run some of these questions. I love that. You know, we had one, we had
Zangie. We did have a Zangie. Yeah. Yeah. I think everybody needs a Zangie in their
life. Zangie, we love you. Yep. I would also kind of say, um, kind of with the, you know,
how do you know when it's marriage time and you know, the, the length of, of courting,
um, it's also what's going on in your life. Yeah. Um, because we've known people, we've
known people that have, you know, they, they were engaged for, you know, like three or
four years, five years, you know, but it was because they were, they wanted to finish school.
They were in college. So it's like, okay, we got, we got engaged early, but we're going
to wait until we get married. That's actually one of those prerequisites in our daughter's
life. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and, and that kind of happened to us because we were ready
to get married, but we decided to wait until I was finished with college. Right. Um, and
then it was, it was, it was that weekend that I graduated college on Friday. We got married
on Sunday. Yeah. Um, you know, just because it was, yeah. And a father all in one week.
That's right. It was awesome. You know, but, but again, so it's, you know, but that was,
that was what was going on in our life. If you can, you know, if, if it's, if it works
after y'all, you know, and, and God says it's good, you know, and you've had all these hard
conversations and you're like, you know what? This is, this is the genuinely the one I want
to spend the rest of my life with, you know, and, and, you know, go for it, you know, but
it is, it's, there are, there's just, it's, it feels like this, this, I feel like my,
my cop out answer is like, there's a lot of conversations and what is God saying? Period,
period. Because you're not going to have all the conversations worked out beforehand.
You're just not, you're not going to have all the conflicts that are going to come along
the way. Cause especially if you are a couple that have never lived together and you don't
live together and then all of a sudden you are living together, you're going to find
things out about each other that you, that just were not in the handbook. Right. My favorite,
my favorite is toothpaste. Yes. You know, because every, almost everybody squeezes the
toothpaste tube separate, you know, differently and you know, and they're usually married
to each other and they usually are married to each other, you know, but again, it's,
it's, you know, it's stuff like that, that it's, it's going to, that could possibly drive
you up the wall. Like, Oh my gosh, why do you do that? Yeah. You know, and again, you
know, but again, that's, that's something you're not going to know until after you're married.
Right. Right. And you've got to pick your battles. You've got to figure this out again,
evaluate, be very real with yourself. If this never changes, is this still going to be okay?
Yeah. If, if this doesn't, you know, this seems to grade me a little bit about his personality.
Okay. Is it a make or break? What, what, what, what category does this stand in? Well, she
does this and such and such and such. Okay. Is that something to where you say, okay,
I can't, I can't live with the rest of my life with you? Or is that something that you
can say, you know what, in light of eternity, this isn't going to matter. You be honest.
Yeah. Be very, very honest. And we joke, but we don't joke a lot, a lot of red flags or
a lot of just conversations that just need to be had, have a tendency to be pushed to
the wayside because when things start getting a little uneasy or you get uncomfortable with
whatever the conversation may be, then it's like, Oh, well, let's just make out. Yeah.
Or let's just, you know, let's just sweep it under the rug and let's just, you know,
let's, no, we're just, we're not, you know what, nevermind. It's not a big deal. No,
you need to have these conversations. You do. Because this is as, as measly small as
this is, if you do not bring it out into the light and have a conversation, it can genuinely
fester into such a space to where it could absolutely destroy the relationship. Yeah.
And ultimately let's keep in mind that, you know, the, the, the, the goal of courtship
is marriage. Yes. You know, you're, we're, we're talking about, you know, the length
of dating, you know, I'm, I'm again, I'm guessing it's before marriage and you know, how do
you know when it's time to get married? You know, because ultimately your vows to each
other are also a covenant to God. That's right. You know, because God is going to be involved
in your marriage. You know, God is going to be involved in your family. God is going to
be involved in your lives. And you know, that, that covenant, you know, you can, you can
look through the Bible and look to see how important, not just a marriage covenant, but
just covenants with God, how important those are. You know, I remember reading or hearing
a story of, you know, when, when God made the covenant with Abraham, was it Abraham?
I think I might be wrong. Yes. Okay. Where he put him asleep and he split the animals
and kind of walked with, you know, quote unquote, walked with, with Abraham, you know, between
this. What that was, was that was making a covenant and, and somebody said that, you
know, back then they would actually do that. They would split animals in half and, and
put them on each side and you that, you know, the two people making a covenant would walk
between these, these rows of this row of split animals. Yeah. And it was to signify and to
say, if I break this covenant with you, you can do to me what has been done to these animals.
That's crazy. That's, I mean, that's deep until death. Yes. Yes. You know, and, and I think,
I think there's too many people nowadays that are treating marriage like it's a casual thing.
Shoot, babe. You know, it's, it's like, I think people are forgetting the heaviness and the
reverence and the importance and the permanence that comes with marriage vows. You know, it's
like, it feels like too many people, you know, are treating it of, you know, well, I checked
this box. I checked this box. Yep. I met with the pastor. I checked that box. You know,
the pastor's like, yep, I met with them. I checked that box. Yeah. Okay. Here we go.
Married. You know, yep. You got a ring. You got a ring. Okay. Go ahead and kiss. Congrats.
Yeah. You know, you're a Christian. They're a Christian. Hey, listen, not all Christians
should be getting married to each other. Yeah. Let's just put it that way. Let's put it that
way. Yeah. You know, but it is, I think, I think there needs to be that, that reminder
of the, the, of it is, like I said, the weightiness, the importance of marriage vows, of the marriage
covenant. Yeah. You know, because I do, I feel like too many people are just going into
marriage for the wrong reasons or they're going into marriage casually and just, well,
God will bless it. I'm, we're married now. God will bless it. Right. You sure about that?
Yeah. Yeah. To a point, to a point he will. He'll help you through it, but you've got
to surrender. You do. You've got to surrender. You've got to, okay. So we say we do have
a couple out there that are listening to this and saying, okay, well, I mean, we are those
people. We went into casually. Am I, am I now gone? Yeah. And it's like, no, like God
can, God can absolutely rework that for you. Right. And, and completely come into that
space. You've got to let him though. You've got to let him, you've got to be, I literally
walked up to a young man at our church that has recently gotten married and looked at
him and I was like, don't be afraid to change. Don't, don't be afraid to grow. Don't be,
don't be afraid to allow the Holy spirit to come into this space and even rework you,
even in the midst of your marriage, because just because we are now married, doesn't mean
that you and I stopped growing. We are not the same people we were 12 years ago. We're
just not. And are there strong foundations and are there things that just neither one
of us have ever changed our mind and we are the same people when it comes to that? Yeah.
But there's, there's, there's wisdom, you know, there's a greater understanding, even
a greater knowledge of each other and just what God has created each one of us to be.
And that's beautiful. Right. It's like, it's deciding to say, I'm not just going to grow
by myself anymore. I'm going to grow together with somebody else too. The, the two become
one flesh. Like we start becoming, you know, again, you, it doesn't mean we have to do
the same thing. We don't have to be in the same ministries. We don't have to, it means
that we have a covenant that says, I've got your back. Yeah. I'm not going anywhere. I
am your ride or die. I get to stick with you for the rest of our days. And I get to dig
in and keep digging and finding all these beautiful treasures that God has encapsulated
you with. Yeah. I get to be your cheerleader. I get to be our kids, you know, loudest voice
in the stands, you know, it's just, it's, it's knowing that you get to be this person's
support system. You get to be this person's just running with, you get to, you get to
be the one that gets to stand behind this person and push them and launch them into
who it is that God has created them to be and comfort them when they need it. Come on.
Come on. Just all of it, just all of it. You know, you get to be the one that kicks their
chair and says, Hey, didn't you say that this is what you felt like this is supposed to
be doing? Where are you on that? In a space where you love them enough to see them succeed
in everything and not let, we're going to go on a walk every day, babe. Okay, here we
go. It's blasted hot. Now it's freezing cold. Okay, welcome to Missouri. But it's like,
are we keeping the promises that we are making? Not just to the other person, but to ourselves.
Listen, I choose, I choose you and I'll continue. That's literally on our wall. I choose you
and I'll continue to choose you all the days of my life. I choose to choose you. I choose
to be in love with you. It's not falling in love with you. Because if I fell into it,
I could fall out. It's, it's choosing. It's, it's looking at the marriage covenant that
you have with a person. And, and that's when you know, I, I, I am, I am choosing to lay
my agendas down, to lay my life down for this person, because this is who God has created
to walk with me. And it's an, and so when you know that, or if you're in that, in the
marriage now, and you're not feeling that, ask God to deal with you. Ask him why. Ask
him, ask him to rekindle that fire, relight that flame, whatever it needs to do to do
what needs to be done to get you motivated and moving and in love with that person again.
And have the hard conversations of, Hey, it feels like we're drifting. It feels like we're
drifting in life and it feels like we're drifting apart. You need to fix this. I want to fix
this. Not the, we need to, or you need to. I want to fix this. I want us to be better.
I want us to be a better. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So I would say to answer the question
as far as I like that it's, it's not about timelines. I don't believe it's ever been
about timelines. Again, the dating, you know, younger, I don't, I don't like the, I don't
like the preteen and I don't like just on the cusp of the other. Again, just because
that was the way that I was raised. And I think it worked out really well, but I do
believe because the one that asked this question, like she's got her, her crew, like, and, and
where one might be 16, the other one might have to wait till they're 21. If where one
might be, you know, 17, the other one, even, even with Gabri, you know, it was like, you
know, when she was 14, 15, she was like, you know, she was chopping at the bit, you know,
as soon as I'm 16, I can go date. I can go date. She turned 16. No, I'm good. Yeah. Yeah.
I think she went on, she, she went to a dance with, without the permission of us to, I mean,
she had permission to go to the dance, but not to meet the boy. And so she met a boy
there and I'm really grateful that it did not go well. And I think that kind of just
turned her off of that scenario for a little bit, but I also believe us as parents or caregivers
or whoever you are in this young person's life, right? Or even the older person, when
you re, when you are a good person to say, and there's a certain word I want to use,
reinforce when you would reinforce the worth of the person, when you reinforce the, the,
the worth of your teenager, your 20 something year old, your 30 something year old. Okay.
When you start reinforcing their worth of the beauty of who God created them to be,
and then you reinforce the worth of other people. Because again, that's back to your
statement about the men being taught a certain way. And then the women being taught a certain
way. If we, as men and women start respecting, honoring, seeking, wanting to do unto them
what we want done to us, then I think you start seeing that a healthy generation starts
springing forth and they want nothing but the good because, because they deserve nothing
but good. When you know, when you know your worth, you know what it is that you should
have. And it's not a, I'm so good at it's no, this is what God intended. His intent
was for a loving, generous, kind, good, healthy relationship. And that goes both ways. Honor,
respect, love, cherish. These are big, big words. And those need to be going towards
the men and towards the women. And then, and then see what God does. Yes. Amen.
I hope this answered the questions or at least our opinions. Y'all could completely have
a different opinion about it, but those, I would say that those would be, those are the,
that's what we see. That's how we see it. That's how we did it. So that's what we've
experienced. That's what we've seen. I was 36 when we got married. 35, 36. I was 36.
Is that right? It doesn't matter. It's fine. I think that's right. So whether you're 16
or whether you're 36, it applies. It all applies. Those are, those are fundamental basis of
that you, that you want to seek in any relationship at any given time. Let it be something that
is God ordained, God breathed. That's right. Anything else? I think that's it. All right.
I love this. I love this. Okay. So keep the questions coming. Have the most beautiful
week and enjoy the journey.