WEBVTT 00:00:33.479 --> 00:00:37.039 The podcast is sponsored by Startupsummit .io, 00:00:37.719 --> 00:00:40.100 a today event bringing together 2 ,000 founders, 00:00:40.399 --> 00:00:42.780 investors, and industry leaders from across Europe. 00:00:43.380 --> 00:00:45.159 As a thank you for being part of the podcast 00:00:45.159 --> 00:00:48.560 community, we are now offering 50 % off all tickets 00:00:48.560 --> 00:00:51.539 by using the code podcast in all capitals on 00:00:51.539 --> 00:00:55.119 the website. See you in Lisbon. Hi, and welcome 00:00:55.119 --> 00:00:57.820 to another episode of the Innovation Conversation. 00:00:58.259 --> 00:01:01.280 Today we are joined by Tash Rebuck. Welcome to 00:01:01.280 --> 00:01:03.729 the podcast, Tash. Thanks so much Riccardo, I'm 00:01:03.729 --> 00:01:05.959 really excited to be here. It's a pleasure having 00:01:05.959 --> 00:01:08.859 you here. Tash, I know you have an amazing story 00:01:08.859 --> 00:01:11.040 to tell the audience. So would you please like 00:01:11.040 --> 00:01:13.019 to introduce yourself to the audience? Absolutely. 00:01:13.319 --> 00:01:16.159 So if you can't tell, I am born and bred in London 00:01:16.159 --> 00:01:19.599 and I always grew up being absolutely desperate 00:01:19.599 --> 00:01:23.900 to be an actor and eventually realized that I 00:01:23.900 --> 00:01:26.400 would like to move out of my parents' home. So 00:01:26.400 --> 00:01:30.359 I took up a very adaptable and similar career, 00:01:30.640 --> 00:01:35.349 which is sales. divulge more into my story, but 00:01:35.349 --> 00:01:38.109 in the shorthand, I'm now a sales consultant. 00:01:38.510 --> 00:01:42.590 I do coaching, advice, and training, and that's 00:01:42.590 --> 00:01:44.590 what I do. I love helping people fall in love 00:01:44.590 --> 00:01:47.480 with sales. Interesting. The sales, obviously 00:01:47.480 --> 00:01:49.519 my background is also in sales. So we both know 00:01:49.519 --> 00:01:51.959 sales is actually quite scary most of the time. 00:01:51.959 --> 00:01:53.739 And I think for a lot of the audience listening 00:01:53.739 --> 00:01:56.200 to this and first time entrepreneurs just starting 00:01:56.200 --> 00:01:58.599 the business to actually go out and talk about 00:01:58.599 --> 00:02:00.700 their business and what they're building. It's 00:02:00.700 --> 00:02:02.400 really, really scary because you don't want to 00:02:02.400 --> 00:02:06.180 hear your nose. So how did you, I guess, took 00:02:06.180 --> 00:02:08.439 the knowledge and the expertise you had as an 00:02:08.439 --> 00:02:11.120 actor from you hear nose literally all the time, 00:02:11.159 --> 00:02:13.240 right? Into sales, how was the process like? 00:02:13.520 --> 00:02:15.919 Tell us a little bit more about that story. It's 00:02:15.919 --> 00:02:17.699 a really interesting one. I think that there 00:02:17.699 --> 00:02:21.620 are so many reasons why actors become salespeople. 00:02:21.800 --> 00:02:24.520 I think the first one is absolutely we're so 00:02:24.520 --> 00:02:27.520 used to rejection. I used to put in my CV when 00:02:27.520 --> 00:02:30.180 I was going for sales jobs, used to be a stand 00:02:30.180 --> 00:02:33.340 -up comedian, can take rejection very well. And 00:02:33.340 --> 00:02:36.710 it's so true because when you're in acting, every 00:02:36.710 --> 00:02:40.370 single no you get you have to see it as the stepping 00:02:40.370 --> 00:02:43.810 stone to the next yes or sometimes your first 00:02:43.810 --> 00:02:46.870 yes and sales is exactly the same ultimately 00:02:46.870 --> 00:02:49.409 it's a numbers game the more people you reach 00:02:49.409 --> 00:02:52.030 out to the more you speak about what you do you 00:02:52.030 --> 00:02:55.110 get past all the no's that will then open the 00:02:55.110 --> 00:02:59.030 door to that one big or hopefully many big yeses 00:02:59.030 --> 00:03:02.030 but also i think the biggest thing is being a 00:03:02.030 --> 00:03:05.150 chameleon. You know, I was very traditionally 00:03:05.150 --> 00:03:09.050 trained in acting. I did theatre. And the reality 00:03:09.050 --> 00:03:11.590 is you can walk on stage, a prop can fall over, 00:03:11.729 --> 00:03:15.330 someone can forget their line, and you have to 00:03:15.330 --> 00:03:18.949 come up with something completely new. And that 00:03:18.949 --> 00:03:21.229 is exactly what sales is. You know, you have 00:03:21.229 --> 00:03:23.430 to adapt to who you're speaking to. You have 00:03:23.430 --> 00:03:26.129 to sometimes be a different kind of person, you 00:03:26.129 --> 00:03:29.669 know. We're not all what everyone is looking 00:03:29.669 --> 00:03:33.050 for. You have to be able to adapt and come up 00:03:33.050 --> 00:03:35.370 with different ideas. And that has been really, 00:03:35.370 --> 00:03:39.250 really helpful from my acting background. I was 00:03:39.250 --> 00:03:41.569 looking at I was watching a movie the other day 00:03:41.569 --> 00:03:45.150 and they kind of showcase the basics of improv 00:03:45.150 --> 00:03:47.189 comedy, which is that you never say no, we just 00:03:47.189 --> 00:03:50.509 say yes. And so if someone if there's two people 00:03:50.509 --> 00:03:52.129 on stage, one says, I am a doctor. The other 00:03:52.129 --> 00:03:54.610 says, yes, and I am a pharmacist. If they say, 00:03:54.729 --> 00:03:56.729 no, you're not a doctor, then there's no way 00:03:56.729 --> 00:03:58.810 to go. And I think if you take that to sales, 00:03:58.949 --> 00:04:00.669 you can actually use that. Oh, I already bought 00:04:00.669 --> 00:04:03.669 a software. Yes. However, or yes. And I can, 00:04:03.669 --> 00:04:05.509 you know, improve the way you're using software 00:04:05.509 --> 00:04:06.689 or something like that. Right. So it just works. 00:04:07.490 --> 00:04:09.949 Exactly. I think it all comes down to like positivity 00:04:09.949 --> 00:04:13.509 as well. Just bringing a nice happy spin to things. 00:04:13.650 --> 00:04:15.830 Oh, you're already doing that. Amazing. That 00:04:15.830 --> 00:04:19.069 means you already know how valuable it is. That's 00:04:19.069 --> 00:04:21.589 great news. It's just, yeah, keeping your head 00:04:21.589 --> 00:04:24.189 up, keeping positive, even when you might be 00:04:24.189 --> 00:04:26.730 facing a lot of rejection. Now, I know there 00:04:26.730 --> 00:04:28.689 is a little bit of a very interesting story. 00:04:28.970 --> 00:04:31.170 because there was a time in your life you were, 00:04:31.490 --> 00:04:33.209 I think it was probably your first sales job. 00:04:33.449 --> 00:04:34.730 Would you like to tell that story? Because I 00:04:34.730 --> 00:04:36.750 absolutely love the story and obviously the audience 00:04:36.750 --> 00:04:38.470 doesn't know that we met before, but I really 00:04:38.470 --> 00:04:41.470 want to hear that story again. Absolutely. I'll 00:04:41.470 --> 00:04:44.930 pretend like you've never heard it. So when I 00:04:44.930 --> 00:04:47.290 did eventually decide I'd like to not live with 00:04:47.290 --> 00:04:50.750 my parents forever, I looked up different roles 00:04:50.750 --> 00:04:55.279 and it was amazing. because the company that 00:04:55.279 --> 00:04:57.879 I found, like the recruitment company, they were 00:04:57.879 --> 00:05:00.160 desperate for me to get into recruitment because 00:05:00.160 --> 00:05:03.699 that was really the big sales job that everyone 00:05:03.699 --> 00:05:07.379 was doing. Startups had just been building in 00:05:07.379 --> 00:05:11.319 excitement and so everyone was hiring. And I 00:05:11.319 --> 00:05:15.639 interviewed at 13 of the top London recruitment 00:05:15.639 --> 00:05:20.180 companies. Every single one rejected me. and 00:05:20.180 --> 00:05:23.060 I got to the last stage of every single one and 00:05:23.060 --> 00:05:25.399 they sat me down and they'd asked me the same 00:05:25.399 --> 00:05:27.399 question and I'm a total fool because I gave 00:05:27.399 --> 00:05:29.480 the same answer. I knew what was going to happen 00:05:29.480 --> 00:05:33.199 but they asked me would you screw over the person 00:05:33.199 --> 00:05:36.399 you were sat next to if you knew you could place 00:05:36.399 --> 00:05:39.959 someone in a role that they were going for. Every 00:05:39.959 --> 00:05:43.550 single time I went no. I wouldn't, that's not 00:05:43.550 --> 00:05:46.110 how I'd work. I'd talk to them, I'd let them 00:05:46.110 --> 00:05:48.029 know I think I had a really good candidate and 00:05:48.029 --> 00:05:49.649 say, hey, look, if I hand it to you, why don't 00:05:49.649 --> 00:05:51.769 we do a commission split or something along those 00:05:51.769 --> 00:05:54.850 lines. Apparently I'm too nice for recruitment. 00:05:55.110 --> 00:05:59.939 So what does a nice, nerdy salesperson do? go 00:05:59.939 --> 00:06:02.240 and get hired by one of the biggest board game 00:06:02.240 --> 00:06:06.259 companies in the world. So I amazingly ended 00:06:06.259 --> 00:06:09.579 up in an interview to work for Monopoly and what 00:06:09.579 --> 00:06:12.259 we did there was make bespoke editions of board 00:06:12.259 --> 00:06:15.810 games and It was such an incredible experience 00:06:15.810 --> 00:06:19.209 because we were almost seen as this team that 00:06:19.209 --> 00:06:22.050 we were in, we were like the specialist sales 00:06:22.050 --> 00:06:26.269 agents because we made limited edition versions 00:06:26.269 --> 00:06:29.509 of games. So you might go to a football club 00:06:29.509 --> 00:06:31.889 who's just won the league and get them to make, 00:06:31.889 --> 00:06:35.069 you know, 5 ,000 editions of their championship. 00:06:35.439 --> 00:06:39.120 monopoly round or you might go to a comic book 00:06:39.120 --> 00:06:42.360 and say why not make for your 10th anniversary 00:06:42.360 --> 00:06:45.120 a pack of top trumps where you've got all the 00:06:45.120 --> 00:06:48.100 characters and that was really really interesting 00:06:48.100 --> 00:06:50.399 because you got to work with massive enterprise 00:06:50.399 --> 00:06:53.480 companies building things that were really fun 00:06:53.480 --> 00:06:56.240 and different. My cupboard is just full of monopoly 00:06:56.240 --> 00:07:00.860 boards. Yeah, and also making like city editions, 00:07:00.879 --> 00:07:04.459 so getting to travel around the UK and make sort 00:07:04.459 --> 00:07:07.920 of their own versions of Monopoly boards. And 00:07:07.920 --> 00:07:11.220 I won't give away too many secrets, but almost 00:07:11.220 --> 00:07:13.980 everyone pays to be on a Monopoly board. It's 00:07:13.980 --> 00:07:16.860 not quite as, you know, tourist -driven as one 00:07:16.860 --> 00:07:19.779 might hope. There's a lot of commercial. What 00:07:19.779 --> 00:07:23.500 a surprise. Monopoly is quite a commercial. But 00:07:23.500 --> 00:07:25.899 it was an amazing job. It was so much fun. And 00:07:25.899 --> 00:07:27.800 like I said, I'm a big nerd. So it was a great 00:07:27.800 --> 00:07:30.259 opportunity to marry two things that I really 00:07:30.259 --> 00:07:33.060 love together. Are you a big board game person? 00:07:33.699 --> 00:07:35.079 You're literally talking about my favorite game. 00:07:35.839 --> 00:07:39.740 I love Monopoly so obviously you know we're part 00:07:39.740 --> 00:07:41.800 of the older generation so we grew up without 00:07:41.800 --> 00:07:43.879 internet right they wanted to watch a movie it 00:07:43.879 --> 00:07:46.180 was the same old VHS tape over and over again. 00:07:46.339 --> 00:07:49.819 So my summers were spent literally watching Star 00:07:49.819 --> 00:07:52.620 Wars, The Sound of Music and Indiana Jones because 00:07:52.620 --> 00:07:54.160 those were the only cassettes we had in the house 00:07:54.160 --> 00:07:57.680 kind of and then Monopoly was introduced so I 00:07:57.680 --> 00:07:59.779 spent summers playing Monopoly with my sister 00:07:59.779 --> 00:08:02.300 getting into huge fights with her and that was 00:08:02.300 --> 00:08:05.310 it. And then over Christmas, big classic, let's 00:08:05.310 --> 00:08:06.910 bring out the Monopoly game. So yeah, absolutely. 00:08:07.550 --> 00:08:09.589 Exactly. Well, do you and your family still play 00:08:09.589 --> 00:08:13.110 Monopoly? Well, this is actually, you kind of 00:08:13.110 --> 00:08:15.930 hit like a really sad story there. My sister 00:08:15.930 --> 00:08:18.910 once loaned my Monopoly game to one of her random 00:08:18.910 --> 00:08:22.490 friends and it's been lost ever since. And every 00:08:22.490 --> 00:08:24.750 year I kind of gently nudge her. Maybe she's 00:08:24.750 --> 00:08:26.810 watching this, she'll be like, you know, probably 00:08:26.810 --> 00:08:29.230 should buy him the Monopoly game. Hey, Monopoly, 00:08:29.350 --> 00:08:31.620 I really like the game. Hey, sis, I really like 00:08:31.620 --> 00:08:33.320 the game. She never bought me one again. So yeah, 00:08:33.340 --> 00:08:36.179 it's missing. Do you know what, Ricardo, seeing 00:08:36.179 --> 00:08:39.480 as you've invited me on this podcast, maybe if 00:08:39.480 --> 00:08:42.759 you send me your address, I will ship you a cool 00:08:42.759 --> 00:08:45.940 version. I'm thinking Star Wars edition of Monopoly, 00:08:46.240 --> 00:08:49.279 because it was our office that made that. So 00:08:49.279 --> 00:08:53.039 definitely can send that to you. Yeah, absolutely. 00:08:53.559 --> 00:08:56.419 Well, if you do get the board, and this is a 00:08:56.419 --> 00:08:59.860 trade secret, yellow and red, if you buy them, 00:09:00.490 --> 00:09:02.809 Statistically, you are more likely to win. They 00:09:02.809 --> 00:09:06.570 are the most landed on properties. You see, I 00:09:06.570 --> 00:09:09.389 agree. However, you can't disagree with me. This 00:09:09.389 --> 00:09:12.350 is statistics. Statistics. Yes, I see your point. 00:09:12.509 --> 00:09:14.929 However, because it's a square, right? The easiest 00:09:14.929 --> 00:09:17.250 ones to get, which are the cheapest ones, are 00:09:17.250 --> 00:09:20.470 the orange and the one straight after a go when 00:09:20.470 --> 00:09:23.190 you pass go. And if you buy those two, people 00:09:23.190 --> 00:09:25.610 are never afraid of landing on those two, right? 00:09:26.009 --> 00:09:27.649 But they actually increases your cash flow very 00:09:27.649 --> 00:09:29.779 early on. because it's the cheapest one to get 00:09:29.779 --> 00:09:31.820 a hotel. So like, you know, I'll buy a couple 00:09:31.820 --> 00:09:33.980 of hotels. You just got some money because it's 00:09:33.980 --> 00:09:36.120 just best to go. Then you start paying, you know, 00:09:36.240 --> 00:09:38.019 for staying in those hotels. So actually build 00:09:38.019 --> 00:09:39.940 your cashflow very quickly if you happen to get 00:09:39.940 --> 00:09:42.419 them. And normally people always go for like 00:09:42.419 --> 00:09:45.360 Park Lane and is it Hyde Park as well? Yeah, 00:09:45.600 --> 00:09:47.879 Hyde Park corner or something like that. Which 00:09:47.879 --> 00:09:50.460 are really expensive to build a hotel, but a 00:09:50.460 --> 00:09:52.299 small hotel and you keep on falling there you 00:09:52.299 --> 00:09:54.340 know super is the bills or so it makes you win 00:09:54.340 --> 00:09:56.779 the game in this case. This is the issue with 00:09:56.779 --> 00:09:58.980 two commercial experts sitting down and talking 00:09:58.980 --> 00:10:01.419 about Monopoly because now we could get into 00:10:01.419 --> 00:10:03.440 a whole thing about really but should you save 00:10:03.440 --> 00:10:06.340 up to make a bigger and better investment but 00:10:06.340 --> 00:10:08.519 we won't get into all of that at least not Monopoly 00:10:08.519 --> 00:10:11.679 related. No no 100 % not. So you started selling 00:10:11.679 --> 00:10:14.600 Monopoly you were very very successful and then 00:10:14.600 --> 00:10:16.779 when did you realize actually I can make a career 00:10:17.080 --> 00:10:20.440 out of this. It can become the way of making 00:10:20.440 --> 00:10:23.340 money, the way of being successful in life. So 00:10:23.340 --> 00:10:26.559 I had a really interesting journey where I went 00:10:26.559 --> 00:10:30.480 from the really old traditional world of monopoly 00:10:30.480 --> 00:10:34.570 and games where we were basically sat at a big 00:10:34.570 --> 00:10:38.850 old desktop computer with a proper dial -up phone, 00:10:38.909 --> 00:10:41.289 and I had a Rolodex of business cards, like an 00:10:41.289 --> 00:10:44.370 actual flipping Rolodex of business cards. No 00:10:44.370 --> 00:10:49.029 CRM, no automation tools. And then I went from 00:10:49.029 --> 00:10:53.070 that to the startup world, and I joined a, well, 00:10:53.070 --> 00:10:56.070 ended up becoming a unicorn. So when I started, 00:10:56.190 --> 00:10:59.149 there was 20 of us in the UK office, and by the 00:10:59.149 --> 00:11:01.850 time I left, there was over 900 people globally. 00:11:02.320 --> 00:11:05.320 So it was just in four years, massive growth. 00:11:05.480 --> 00:11:09.460 And so I got to see how a startup can grow and 00:11:09.460 --> 00:11:11.919 then was able to sort of do that myself for a 00:11:11.919 --> 00:11:14.120 few years in head of sales and head of commercial 00:11:14.120 --> 00:11:17.659 roles. But the light bulb moment for me to start 00:11:17.659 --> 00:11:20.039 my own business and to actually just work one 00:11:20.039 --> 00:11:22.659 -on -one with founders and business owners was 00:11:22.659 --> 00:11:26.200 the last role I had. I was head of commercial 00:11:26.200 --> 00:11:29.080 for a charity and volunteering platform. We were 00:11:29.080 --> 00:11:33.879 a B Corp and I was just. doing real positive 00:11:33.879 --> 00:11:37.120 good for the world, but still B2B sales. So it 00:11:37.120 --> 00:11:40.179 was two things I absolutely loved. And I had 00:11:40.179 --> 00:11:42.299 had this, you know, it's kind of the dream for 00:11:42.299 --> 00:11:45.379 any head of sales is I had this wonderful team, 00:11:45.419 --> 00:11:47.340 they were growing really quickly, closing loads 00:11:47.340 --> 00:11:51.799 of deals. And the CTO said to me, the last enterprise 00:11:51.799 --> 00:11:56.580 client you've signed has taken us over our capacity. 00:11:57.019 --> 00:11:59.600 Could you personally stop doing sales for a little 00:11:59.600 --> 00:12:03.460 bit? And I was like, yeah, absolutely. I can 00:12:03.460 --> 00:12:06.220 stop doing sales. And then that lasted about 00:12:06.220 --> 00:12:10.320 a day. And I was like, I really miss sales. So 00:12:10.320 --> 00:12:13.279 I went onto the platform and I looked up to see 00:12:13.279 --> 00:12:15.500 if there was any volunteering projects that were 00:12:15.500 --> 00:12:18.779 around sales consulting. And there was one, there 00:12:18.779 --> 00:12:21.799 was a domestic abuse organization that basically 00:12:21.799 --> 00:12:24.279 was at the point where they thought if we don't 00:12:24.279 --> 00:12:26.299 have something happen in the next three months, 00:12:26.320 --> 00:12:29.710 we'll have to shut down shop, which for the amazing 00:12:29.710 --> 00:12:33.509 good that they were doing was a devastating possibility. 00:12:33.870 --> 00:12:37.049 And in the three hours, because that was what 00:12:37.049 --> 00:12:40.289 was offered to them, the difference that happened 00:12:40.289 --> 00:12:43.570 in their business was more than anything I've 00:12:43.570 --> 00:12:47.370 ever been able to achieve internally. And that 00:12:47.370 --> 00:12:49.309 was really the light bulb because I realized 00:12:49.309 --> 00:12:53.570 two things. One is you can be a founder of an 00:12:53.570 --> 00:12:55.570 incredible business. You can be an absolute genius, 00:12:55.769 --> 00:12:58.120 come up with the best idea in the world. But 00:12:58.120 --> 00:13:01.179 if you don't know how to sell it, you won't get 00:13:01.179 --> 00:13:03.620 fundraising, you won't get clients, you won't 00:13:03.620 --> 00:13:06.039 get partnerships, and you'll disappear. The second 00:13:06.039 --> 00:13:08.639 thing was that people listen to you when you're 00:13:08.639 --> 00:13:10.820 a consultant. They don't really listen to you 00:13:10.820 --> 00:13:16.980 when they hire you as an employee. Do you know, 00:13:17.059 --> 00:13:19.539 I mean, I'm sure there's so many like psychological 00:13:19.539 --> 00:13:21.460 reasons behind it, but I don't know them. I'm 00:13:21.460 --> 00:13:24.360 just a salesperson, but I do think it's something 00:13:24.360 --> 00:13:27.220 about, okay, this is also a business owner. They're 00:13:27.220 --> 00:13:29.759 going through it too. They understand. And so 00:13:29.759 --> 00:13:32.299 you meet them at the same level rather than there 00:13:32.299 --> 00:13:35.840 being an imbalance of power. It's the authority 00:13:35.840 --> 00:13:38.419 thing that makes a big difference. One assumes 00:13:38.419 --> 00:13:40.960 that they know more about it than you do, whereas 00:13:40.960 --> 00:13:42.399 the other one actually assumes that you know 00:13:42.399 --> 00:13:44.259 more about it than they do. That's why they're 00:13:44.259 --> 00:13:46.639 paying you good money for it, right? Exactly. 00:13:46.820 --> 00:13:49.120 Even though that is how a founder should see 00:13:49.120 --> 00:13:50.860 their head of sales, if you hire a head of sales, 00:13:50.960 --> 00:13:53.960 that is the person you trust. Otherwise, why 00:13:53.960 --> 00:13:56.740 have you hired them? But reality and what we 00:13:56.740 --> 00:13:58.879 think it should be, sometimes different things. 00:13:59.100 --> 00:14:02.559 I actually, the last job I had, well, this was 00:14:02.559 --> 00:14:05.620 only a very temporary thing. The CEO there, which 00:14:05.620 --> 00:14:08.600 was a very incapable founder, told me, you don't 00:14:08.600 --> 00:14:10.600 know how to do sales. And I'm looking in the 00:14:10.600 --> 00:14:14.320 eye, you can't be serious. Literally, my CP, 00:14:14.580 --> 00:14:15.980 like I've done more stuff than you've done in 00:14:15.980 --> 00:14:18.000 your entire life. And you're telling me, I don't 00:14:18.000 --> 00:14:20.179 know how to do sales. Okay, cool. Fine. Thank 00:14:20.179 --> 00:14:22.500 you. Bye bye. So yeah, it's just one of those 00:14:22.500 --> 00:14:25.929 things. It is. It's unbelievable. So yeah, that 00:14:25.929 --> 00:14:30.330 was, it was two years ago and I just, I mean, 00:14:31.289 --> 00:14:33.870 I haven't looked back. I really, I haven't. I 00:14:33.870 --> 00:14:37.379 love it. I love the freedom. of being able to 00:14:37.379 --> 00:14:40.039 work with whoever I want. I have a very nice 00:14:40.039 --> 00:14:42.779 rule. No arseholes. It's a good rule to have. 00:14:43.600 --> 00:14:46.919 And I, yeah, I love the people I work with. I 00:14:46.919 --> 00:14:50.879 love the work that I'm doing. I have more flexibility 00:14:50.879 --> 00:14:53.639 and freedom that I ever had. Like before we started 00:14:53.639 --> 00:14:56.220 recording, I can say this to the audience, Ricardo 00:14:56.220 --> 00:14:57.820 was like, oh my God, you're literally always 00:14:57.820 --> 00:14:59.720 on holiday because I just came back from one. 00:14:59.820 --> 00:15:01.799 And the last time we spoke, I'd also been on 00:15:01.799 --> 00:15:03.659 one. And then I'm going on another in a couple 00:15:03.659 --> 00:15:07.509 of weeks. But I'm able to do it. I can hop online, 00:15:07.590 --> 00:15:11.850 I can work if I need to, but for the most part, 00:15:12.049 --> 00:15:14.330 you know, as long as my clients are happy and 00:15:14.330 --> 00:15:17.070 their engine is running and they're getting deals, 00:15:17.710 --> 00:15:20.429 I can take a little break and sit by a pool and 00:15:20.429 --> 00:15:23.149 read a book for a week. And I think this is actually 00:15:23.149 --> 00:15:25.350 quite a lot of, there's quite a lot of value 00:15:25.350 --> 00:15:28.070 in this statement you just made, which is it's 00:15:28.070 --> 00:15:29.909 not about, it's not only about how many hours 00:15:29.909 --> 00:15:32.350 you put in, it's also about the intensity of 00:15:32.350 --> 00:15:34.870 those hours and the value you get out of those 00:15:34.870 --> 00:15:37.309 hours. Cause I know a lot of the first time founders 00:15:37.309 --> 00:15:39.269 and they say, Oh, I've worked from eight till 00:15:39.269 --> 00:15:41.450 midnight and I do like, like crazy hours. And 00:15:41.450 --> 00:15:43.730 I'm like, well, hold on. How many of those hours 00:15:43.730 --> 00:15:45.830 are actually very productive? Cause if the only 00:15:45.830 --> 00:15:47.250 thing you're doing is just like, I don't know. 00:15:49.029 --> 00:15:52.289 It's not the best use of your time, is it? So 00:15:52.289 --> 00:15:54.309 this way is actually very productive. And if 00:15:54.309 --> 00:15:56.009 you're able to do that, then you can grow your 00:15:56.009 --> 00:15:58.210 business. Then you like, you can grow, expand 00:15:58.210 --> 00:16:01.070 and be very, very successful. Exactly. Thank 00:16:01.070 --> 00:16:03.190 you. I try. But yeah, no, I mean, like I say, 00:16:03.210 --> 00:16:05.789 I say to my clients all the time, because often 00:16:05.789 --> 00:16:07.970 we'll, you know, in between sessions, they'll 00:16:07.970 --> 00:16:09.789 go, I didn't manage to get to this. I didn't 00:16:09.789 --> 00:16:12.230 manage to get to that. And now I'm feeling stressed 00:16:12.230 --> 00:16:13.970 because, you know, we don't have anything at 00:16:13.970 --> 00:16:16.190 the top of the pipeline. And it's at that point 00:16:16.190 --> 00:16:19.350 that I go, we have a new rule then. You are not 00:16:19.350 --> 00:16:22.529 allowed to do anything unless you are being paid 00:16:22.529 --> 00:16:25.250 to do it, or it's going to get you paid in the 00:16:25.250 --> 00:16:30.379 future. So don't make a workshop. that you would 00:16:30.379 --> 00:16:33.840 give if you sold it, sell it, then build it. 00:16:34.059 --> 00:16:36.200 That's the startup mentality. I mean, we all 00:16:36.200 --> 00:16:39.299 know that so many times an idea is pitched before 00:16:39.299 --> 00:16:42.759 it's built. And that's okay, because sometimes 00:16:42.759 --> 00:16:45.419 you need that revenue or that promise of revenue 00:16:45.419 --> 00:16:47.960 to give you the freedom to take a step back from 00:16:47.960 --> 00:16:50.399 business development and just refocus on what 00:16:50.399 --> 00:16:53.330 you're actually going to provide. But that's 00:16:53.330 --> 00:16:56.409 a it's a hard place to to be because it's nice 00:16:56.409 --> 00:16:58.730 to procrastinate because people hate sales. They 00:16:58.730 --> 00:17:01.009 see it as a dirty word. So if there's anything 00:17:01.009 --> 00:17:03.909 they can do anything nice and shiny other than 00:17:03.909 --> 00:17:05.910 sales, that's what they're going to go and do. 00:17:05.910 --> 00:17:08.930 Sorry, I think it's the fear of rejection, isn't 00:17:08.930 --> 00:17:13.269 it? Like it's what they did a study about what's 00:17:13.269 --> 00:17:16.009 the biggest fear worldwide. And of course, it's 00:17:16.009 --> 00:17:18.380 like fear of heights fear of you know, you know, 00:17:18.460 --> 00:17:20.500 getting killed in the plane, something like that. 00:17:20.720 --> 00:17:23.200 But the fear of rejection, being rejected by 00:17:23.200 --> 00:17:25.240 your peers, it's like the worst thing ever. That's 00:17:25.240 --> 00:17:26.700 why people are so afraid of public speaking. 00:17:27.220 --> 00:17:28.660 Now, for people like you and me, that's like, 00:17:28.720 --> 00:17:31.339 oh yeah, this is safe. I feel happy here. All 00:17:31.339 --> 00:17:33.980 the eyes are on me. So happy days, right? But 00:17:33.980 --> 00:17:35.559 for a lot of people, it's like the worst thing 00:17:35.559 --> 00:17:39.460 ever. Absolutely. And I think one reason is that 00:17:39.460 --> 00:17:42.019 I like to say, you know, when it comes to rejection, 00:17:42.599 --> 00:17:45.000 what you think it's going to be is so much worse 00:17:45.000 --> 00:17:47.960 than what it really is. Like, take sending a 00:17:47.960 --> 00:17:50.079 cold outreach message. You've seen someone on 00:17:50.079 --> 00:17:52.920 LinkedIn that's your ideal prospect and you are 00:17:52.920 --> 00:17:55.220 terrified to send a message because you think 00:17:55.220 --> 00:17:57.640 they're going to reject you. I always say to 00:17:57.640 --> 00:18:00.640 people, okay, what we need to do is go, what's 00:18:00.640 --> 00:18:03.059 the worst case scenario? What's the best case 00:18:03.059 --> 00:18:05.400 scenario? And then what's the most realistic? 00:18:06.180 --> 00:18:08.680 Because worst case scenario is they turn around, 00:18:08.920 --> 00:18:12.819 they go. why are you in my inbox wasting my time 00:18:12.819 --> 00:18:15.619 blah blah blah I mean someone did once I just 00:18:15.619 --> 00:18:17.660 connected with them on LinkedIn and they said 00:18:17.660 --> 00:18:19.880 I don't connect with people that are beneath 00:18:19.880 --> 00:18:25.480 me so you know worst -case scenario it was incredibly 00:18:25.480 --> 00:18:27.980 hot I was like wow mum I was not expecting that 00:18:27.980 --> 00:18:29.779 what does that make you say that to you only 00:18:29.779 --> 00:18:32.819 well that is a bit wild okay then best -case 00:18:32.819 --> 00:18:35.940 scenario is they go oh my god amazing yeah contract 00:18:35.940 --> 00:18:39.839 deal yes let's do it What's the most realistic 00:18:39.839 --> 00:18:43.920 situation? What is 95 % most likely to happen? 00:18:44.779 --> 00:18:51.259 Nothing. They're not going to respond. And then 00:18:51.259 --> 00:18:53.799 it's about, you know, the no is a good thing. 00:18:54.099 --> 00:18:55.920 Back to the whole acting. Because you can close 00:18:55.920 --> 00:18:57.940 that. You can close that window. Okay, now I 00:18:57.940 --> 00:18:59.740 can focus on something else. And then if they 00:18:59.740 --> 00:19:02.940 are complete, you know, very rude to you, you 00:19:02.940 --> 00:19:05.339 actually it's not about who you are. It's about 00:19:05.339 --> 00:19:07.670 who they are. Because if you're able to treat 00:19:07.670 --> 00:19:09.670 people like that without any reason apart from 00:19:09.670 --> 00:19:11.970 hey, can we connect on LinkedIn? It's like, well, 00:19:11.990 --> 00:19:14.190 hold on. There's a problem with you because I 00:19:14.190 --> 00:19:16.529 don't know about you, but I got like 20 connection 00:19:16.529 --> 00:19:17.930 requests of people trying to sell me something 00:19:17.930 --> 00:19:20.809 every day. I'm like either reject or if I do 00:19:20.809 --> 00:19:22.049 accept it, I said, thank you. This is not for 00:19:22.049 --> 00:19:24.109 me. Or then I don't say anything. It's fine. 00:19:24.230 --> 00:19:30.190 It's part of life. Exactly. I guess people are 00:19:30.190 --> 00:19:31.809 afraid of it. I think also entrepreneurs probably 00:19:31.809 --> 00:19:34.799 are afraid of having rejection because that means 00:19:34.799 --> 00:19:38.140 that their idea is not solid. And then when you 00:19:38.140 --> 00:19:40.559 get that rejection, you assume it's feedback. 00:19:40.720 --> 00:19:42.380 Oh my god, the market is telling me something. 00:19:42.779 --> 00:19:45.539 No, that person is telling me something. 100 00:19:45.539 --> 00:19:47.779 different people tell you totally completely 00:19:47.779 --> 00:19:49.559 different things. So just go and ask 100 people, 00:19:49.839 --> 00:19:51.819 then you can have an opinion but not before that. 00:19:52.460 --> 00:19:55.079 Exactly. It's like people who drop their pricing 00:19:55.079 --> 00:19:57.579 because one person tells them they can't afford 00:19:57.579 --> 00:20:01.089 it. And you have to remind them one or even a 00:20:01.089 --> 00:20:04.490 number of people's budgets doesn't define your 00:20:04.490 --> 00:20:07.630 value that you're giving. You know, like just 00:20:07.630 --> 00:20:10.750 because I can't afford to fly in a private jet 00:20:10.750 --> 00:20:14.930 every single day or ever. Yet. Does not yet. 00:20:15.269 --> 00:20:17.750 No, I wouldn't because of the environmental impact, 00:20:18.049 --> 00:20:20.910 Riccardo. I wouldn't do it. You're a much better 00:20:20.910 --> 00:20:23.089 person than I am. I'll just go private. I'll 00:20:23.089 --> 00:20:25.029 let you buy my own jet and go fly everywhere 00:20:25.029 --> 00:20:29.740 like an idiot. Fair. Fair, because I have a friend 00:20:29.740 --> 00:20:31.940 who works at a private jet company and I got 00:20:31.940 --> 00:20:35.180 to go with her on a free leg or an empty leg 00:20:35.180 --> 00:20:38.559 for no cost. I would also love to fly again, 00:20:38.559 --> 00:20:40.740 but I wouldn't want to pay for it. It's too expensive. 00:20:41.079 --> 00:20:43.740 Silly waste. I don't want it really. But you 00:20:43.740 --> 00:20:46.839 know, just because I can't afford that yet doesn't 00:20:46.839 --> 00:20:49.980 mean it's not worth the value of what it is. 00:20:50.059 --> 00:20:53.680 I just can't afford that. Exactly. I also think 00:20:53.680 --> 00:20:55.859 when it comes to rejection, a lot of people are 00:20:55.859 --> 00:20:58.680 worried about their reputation. And they think 00:20:58.680 --> 00:21:01.880 if I get rejected, if I send too many messages, 00:21:01.980 --> 00:21:04.799 people will view me as less than, and it will 00:21:04.799 --> 00:21:08.339 damage my reputation. It's a good point there. 00:21:08.480 --> 00:21:11.500 That is a good point. I don't think it will because 00:21:11.500 --> 00:21:14.359 that just means you're doing business. Well, 00:21:14.380 --> 00:21:18.619 okay. You just said you had maybe 20 people trying 00:21:18.619 --> 00:21:20.720 to sell something to you this morning. Tell me 00:21:20.720 --> 00:21:24.380 one of their names. I don't remember them because 00:21:24.380 --> 00:21:26.319 they're not even relevant. And there's a really 00:21:26.319 --> 00:21:28.430 good reason why. I tell you what, there's actually 00:21:28.430 --> 00:21:30.089 a really good reason why I haven't replied to 00:21:30.089 --> 00:21:32.769 most, I don't reply to people. And that is when 00:21:32.769 --> 00:21:34.829 they haven't done their research and I can tell 00:21:34.829 --> 00:21:37.289 it's very low effort. Cause we can automate, 00:21:37.289 --> 00:21:39.390 you know, outreach on LinkedIn. We can automate 00:21:39.390 --> 00:21:41.650 a lot of emails. If they haven't even bothered 00:21:41.650 --> 00:21:44.789 to type my name correctly or to fully understand 00:21:44.789 --> 00:21:47.289 the needs of my business, then why would I waste 00:21:47.289 --> 00:21:50.410 my time replying to them? Now, if I have, if 00:21:50.410 --> 00:21:52.029 they did take the time for it, for example, someone 00:21:52.029 --> 00:21:53.970 says, Hey, I listened to your podcast. I really, 00:21:53.990 --> 00:21:56.009 really enjoyed this episode with John Smith, 00:21:56.150 --> 00:21:57.730 which by the way, no John Smith has ever been 00:21:57.730 --> 00:22:00.170 on a podcast. Then I'm like, you know what? This 00:22:00.170 --> 00:22:02.789 person deserves a reply and I'll reply to them. 00:22:03.069 --> 00:22:06.930 I agree. Yeah. Personalization is so key. Now 00:22:06.930 --> 00:22:10.490 when, yeah, all of this automation is completely 00:22:10.490 --> 00:22:14.670 taking over. It's so obvious now, even the slightly 00:22:14.670 --> 00:22:18.430 more advanced ones, you can still tell. I got 00:22:18.430 --> 00:22:21.109 a great one the other day. It said, dear sir, 00:22:21.349 --> 00:22:27.410 slash madam, comma, rebook. And I was like, It's 00:22:27.410 --> 00:22:29.609 really good. One or the other. You're right. 00:22:29.769 --> 00:22:32.549 You know, you've got a 50 % chance of getting 00:22:32.549 --> 00:22:36.490 that right. And you went zero. Yeah, that is 00:22:36.490 --> 00:22:39.029 horrible. I once got a meeting with I was selling 00:22:39.029 --> 00:22:42.230 a film production services. So it was a film 00:22:42.230 --> 00:22:44.470 agency slash production company. And obviously, 00:22:44.589 --> 00:22:46.470 they leave off getting really nice contracts 00:22:46.470 --> 00:22:48.930 to do films and do commercials. And we're trying 00:22:48.930 --> 00:22:52.049 to get a Renault in France, right? Renault has 00:22:52.049 --> 00:22:54.930 had the same agency for decades. They don't reply 00:22:54.930 --> 00:22:56.150 to anyone else because it's just go with that 00:22:56.150 --> 00:22:59.319 one. Guess who managed to get a really nice reply? 00:23:00.259 --> 00:23:02.259 And you know why? Because the email I sent them 00:23:02.259 --> 00:23:04.240 or the message I think was on LinkedIn was like, 00:23:04.539 --> 00:23:07.400 Hey, I know you're doing this with them. My family 00:23:07.400 --> 00:23:10.119 has had three Renaults. It was actually the first 00:23:10.119 --> 00:23:12.880 car I was ever driven on. It was a Renault five. 00:23:13.299 --> 00:23:15.460 Then my dad gave me a Clio to drive around and 00:23:15.460 --> 00:23:18.390 it was amazing. like sex for the first time in 00:23:18.390 --> 00:23:19.930 a clip or something like that. I don't think 00:23:19.930 --> 00:23:21.809 I had that many details, but I've probably had 00:23:21.809 --> 00:23:24.029 too many details of the story. And I really like 00:23:24.029 --> 00:23:25.710 your cars. It's amazing. I know you're launching 00:23:25.710 --> 00:23:27.630 the new model. I'm, you know, passionate about 00:23:27.630 --> 00:23:30.230 it. I love to show you what you can do. Of course 00:23:30.230 --> 00:23:31.789 we got to reply because they read the whole story. 00:23:31.829 --> 00:23:33.529 Like I can connect with this person. They get 00:23:33.529 --> 00:23:36.950 us. Yeah. But exactly. I can do that much. I 00:23:36.950 --> 00:23:39.009 don't think you like that many stories and many 00:23:39.009 --> 00:23:41.349 details to it. No, I mean, definitely not the 00:23:41.349 --> 00:23:43.670 losing your virginity in the car. That one definitely. 00:23:44.009 --> 00:23:45.029 Yeah, that's probably too much. I'll probably 00:23:45.029 --> 00:23:48.660 add this up. I don't think you should, but yeah, 00:23:48.779 --> 00:23:52.400 no, like exactly. I have some, some, some of 00:23:52.400 --> 00:23:55.299 my clients, they come to me because it's not 00:23:55.299 --> 00:23:58.599 about numbers. They've got 10 people they need 00:23:58.599 --> 00:24:01.259 to get in front of and it's do or die. If you 00:24:01.259 --> 00:24:03.240 don't get in front of those people, those are 00:24:03.240 --> 00:24:06.519 all your prospects. And when it comes to that, 00:24:06.599 --> 00:24:10.359 I'm always, you've got to go the most personalized 00:24:10.359 --> 00:24:12.920 that you can possibly do. Send them something. 00:24:13.220 --> 00:24:17.059 Don't do it online anymore. And so. We'll do 00:24:17.059 --> 00:24:19.980 things like send funny things in the mail. I 00:24:19.980 --> 00:24:21.079 don't know if you've ever seen me. You can send 00:24:21.079 --> 00:24:24.099 a coconut and you just write a note on it that 00:24:24.099 --> 00:24:26.079 says, you'd be nuts not to have a meeting with 00:24:26.079 --> 00:24:30.480 me. It's so silly. But what a funny thing to 00:24:30.480 --> 00:24:32.619 do. I have one client. They're a branding and 00:24:32.619 --> 00:24:36.160 marketing agency. They're amazing. And what we 00:24:36.160 --> 00:24:38.579 did is create a board where you can put your 00:24:38.579 --> 00:24:40.920 head through the middle. And it was their faces 00:24:40.920 --> 00:24:44.400 either side. And it said, you look like our next 00:24:44.400 --> 00:24:47.680 favorite client. And it was just, we all, we 00:24:47.680 --> 00:24:50.440 hand wrote notes saying, just let us know if 00:24:50.440 --> 00:24:54.039 you're interested. People sent photos of themselves. 00:24:54.259 --> 00:24:57.240 We're talking about the heads of massive companies, 00:24:57.779 --> 00:25:00.500 putting their heads through this thing, sending 00:25:00.500 --> 00:25:02.420 a photo, being like, yeah, go on. I'll have a 00:25:02.420 --> 00:25:05.539 chat with you. But it works. You've got to do 00:25:05.539 --> 00:25:08.319 it. Yeah. You've got to stand out. Otherwise 00:25:08.319 --> 00:25:11.019 you're just like everyone else and your business 00:25:11.019 --> 00:25:13.660 probably isn't just like everyone else. Otherwise 00:25:13.660 --> 00:25:16.019 you wouldn't be doing it. Exactly. Especially 00:25:16.019 --> 00:25:17.779 when you're selling high ticket price items, 00:25:17.900 --> 00:25:20.039 like you actually want to get personalized. You 00:25:20.039 --> 00:25:22.039 want to get to know them because it's a big number. 00:25:22.400 --> 00:25:24.339 If it's a big number, you need, you know, take 00:25:24.339 --> 00:25:26.799 your time to look at them, what they do, what 00:25:26.799 --> 00:25:29.339 they don't like, stuff like that. I used to work 00:25:29.339 --> 00:25:31.440 for one that was selling software and we used 00:25:31.440 --> 00:25:35.220 to send coffee cups with instant coffee and they'll 00:25:35.220 --> 00:25:37.099 get this really nice package with the mug and 00:25:37.099 --> 00:25:39.059 some instant coffee. What's this? And then I 00:25:39.059 --> 00:25:41.460 put like a little note saying time for coffee. 00:25:42.259 --> 00:25:44.900 That's good. they always reply to you say thank 00:25:44.900 --> 00:25:46.640 you so much for the mug and the coffee and they 00:25:46.640 --> 00:25:48.099 get the joke and like yeah you know what let's 00:25:48.099 --> 00:25:50.900 stop i think that's great i might steal that 00:25:50.900 --> 00:25:53.019 ricardo it's a good it's a good one yeah the 00:25:53.019 --> 00:25:57.039 only problem with this was i hate coffee so people 00:25:57.039 --> 00:26:01.220 say yes i'm like i have to have coffee now oh 00:26:01.220 --> 00:26:03.660 my god i do the same thing i say to people let's 00:26:03.660 --> 00:26:05.839 go grab a coffee and then they'll pick a coffee 00:26:05.839 --> 00:26:09.240 shop and i'm like i only drink tea yep done the 00:26:09.240 --> 00:26:11.660 same Which yeah, it's a bit awkward sometimes. 00:26:11.660 --> 00:26:13.619 You don't drink coffee. No, but you come from 00:26:13.619 --> 00:26:15.000 Portugal. I know we drink stress all the time 00:26:15.000 --> 00:26:17.420 Yeah, but not me say I doesn't make for some 00:26:17.420 --> 00:26:19.859 but then it's a good conversation starter, isn't 00:26:19.859 --> 00:26:22.299 it? Which then brings me to my next topic of 00:26:22.299 --> 00:26:25.259 question, which is how can we use our weaknesses? 00:26:25.940 --> 00:26:28.579 Into our superpowers because I know you know 00:26:28.579 --> 00:26:31.279 how to do this and something that says salespeople 00:26:31.279 --> 00:26:33.819 tend to be very good at doing it So I think that's 00:26:33.819 --> 00:26:36.539 really interesting because what I often find 00:26:36.539 --> 00:26:39.980 myself doing is I'll work with a lot of founders 00:26:39.980 --> 00:26:43.160 who sales is their biggest weakness. Like you're 00:26:43.160 --> 00:26:45.420 not speaking to me if you're amazing at sales, 00:26:45.640 --> 00:26:48.579 unless I'm doing training for your team and you 00:26:48.579 --> 00:26:51.140 recognize you need a great sales trainer. But 00:26:51.140 --> 00:26:53.259 for the founders who come to me because they 00:26:53.259 --> 00:26:57.440 literally find it terrifying, it's about reframing 00:26:57.440 --> 00:27:01.769 it and making them recognize that. Sales isn't 00:27:01.769 --> 00:27:05.950 one thing. It's not this one image of, you know, 00:27:06.150 --> 00:27:10.450 slicked back hair, selling a car, you know, snake 00:27:10.450 --> 00:27:13.890 oil style kind of salesperson, you know, rubbing 00:27:13.890 --> 00:27:16.690 their hands together as you sign the contract. 00:27:16.970 --> 00:27:18.730 Though I'm sure we've all been that at some point 00:27:18.730 --> 00:27:21.990 in our careers. No? I'm just thinking. I don't 00:27:21.990 --> 00:27:23.930 think I've ever been in that situation. Like 00:27:23.930 --> 00:27:25.990 I would only sell products that I would believe 00:27:25.990 --> 00:27:28.349 in because if I believed in them, I could sell 00:27:28.349 --> 00:27:29.829 them passionately. If I didn't believe in them, 00:27:29.990 --> 00:27:32.289 if I thought I was selling snake oil, it just 00:27:32.289 --> 00:27:34.849 wouldn't work. And I got offers to sell, how 00:27:34.849 --> 00:27:37.630 would you win those things when you build those 00:27:37.630 --> 00:27:42.819 conservatories? Like double -paned glass. Oh 00:27:42.819 --> 00:27:45.099 my God, they love me. Come and work for us, Mike. 00:27:45.200 --> 00:27:47.539 Yeah, no, I don't really believe in that. And 00:27:47.539 --> 00:27:51.359 their sales tactic, we're crazy. Yeah, you can 00:27:51.359 --> 00:27:54.259 offer up to 70 % discount on every sale. Yeah, 00:27:54.359 --> 00:27:55.940 on every sale. We make so much money out of this. 00:27:56.059 --> 00:28:03.380 It doesn't really matter. I had that kind of 00:28:03.380 --> 00:28:06.640 situation. I was for three months at a neon light 00:28:06.640 --> 00:28:09.819 company. And apart from the fact that the culture 00:28:09.819 --> 00:28:13.200 was incredibly toxic, it became very apparent 00:28:13.200 --> 00:28:16.420 that it was not the kind of thing that I enjoyed 00:28:16.420 --> 00:28:19.220 selling. I'm not a B2C salesperson. I'm B2B. 00:28:19.400 --> 00:28:21.960 That's where my heart is, you know? All those 00:28:21.960 --> 00:28:24.500 big contracts, those big exciting contracts. 00:28:24.740 --> 00:28:27.200 Love a long sales cycle. Yeah, and also the financial 00:28:27.200 --> 00:28:29.599 consumers is always harder because if you try 00:28:29.599 --> 00:28:33.319 to scan them, I honestly think if you have an 00:28:33.319 --> 00:28:35.359 ounce of decency, you don't feel good about yourself 00:28:35.359 --> 00:28:38.960 doing that. Not at all. Not at all, exactly. 00:28:39.220 --> 00:28:42.539 And I think actually that is probably what most 00:28:42.539 --> 00:28:44.559 people feel really uncomfortable about because 00:28:44.559 --> 00:28:46.559 they think that if they have to sell, they have 00:28:46.559 --> 00:28:49.079 to be dishonest, even when they're talking about 00:28:49.079 --> 00:28:52.680 themselves and what they really do. And so I'll 00:28:52.680 --> 00:28:55.160 often have people who are, they're very quiet, 00:28:55.240 --> 00:28:57.200 they're very softly spoken, they're not very 00:28:57.200 --> 00:28:59.440 sort of pushy or demanding. And they come to 00:28:59.440 --> 00:29:02.259 me and they go, how on earth can I be a salesperson? 00:29:02.759 --> 00:29:06.220 And I'm like, you can be the best salesperson 00:29:06.220 --> 00:29:10.839 because if you can shut up and just listen, and 00:29:10.839 --> 00:29:15.099 every now and again, ask a soft but deeply insightful 00:29:15.099 --> 00:29:18.799 question, you'll be one of the best consultative 00:29:18.799 --> 00:29:21.940 salespeople. Because you're actually taking it 00:29:21.940 --> 00:29:24.299 in, absorbing what they're saying to you, and 00:29:24.299 --> 00:29:27.460 then recommend based on what they have shared. 00:29:27.599 --> 00:29:30.140 And don't just waste their time talking their 00:29:30.140 --> 00:29:32.440 ear off about everything you do and how amazing 00:29:32.440 --> 00:29:35.740 you are. Just talk about that one thing that 00:29:35.740 --> 00:29:39.720 you feel really confident about and just speak 00:29:39.720 --> 00:29:41.720 truthfully about what you do. Because if you're 00:29:41.720 --> 00:29:44.200 good at what you do and you're not bullshitting, 00:29:45.079 --> 00:29:48.059 then it's not a lie. It's not a manipulation. 00:29:48.480 --> 00:29:51.839 It's the truth. And I think that's how you can 00:29:51.839 --> 00:29:54.799 turn those kind of weaknesses into strengths 00:29:54.799 --> 00:29:58.119 is just by reframing them and recognizing that 00:29:58.119 --> 00:30:00.720 not everything has to be done the way that you're 00:30:00.720 --> 00:30:03.559 shown on TV. It doesn't always have to be the 00:30:03.559 --> 00:30:10.150 American influence of sales. I've done that a 00:30:10.150 --> 00:30:12.150 couple of times in job interviews. I mean, it 00:30:12.150 --> 00:30:13.609 does work. I mean, it does show your ability 00:30:13.609 --> 00:30:16.190 to articulate around the problem and solving 00:30:16.190 --> 00:30:18.509 the issue, right? You mentioned, you said something 00:30:18.509 --> 00:30:20.930 that I learned a couple of years ago, which is 00:30:20.930 --> 00:30:24.230 the magic wand question. And at the time I was 00:30:24.230 --> 00:30:27.230 selling ERP software and the CEO there, Ashley, 00:30:27.549 --> 00:30:30.069 great guy. He asked that question on the first 00:30:30.069 --> 00:30:32.430 meeting we had, like, if you had the magic wand, 00:30:32.910 --> 00:30:35.630 what would you fix? And when you open this type 00:30:35.630 --> 00:30:37.329 of open -ended question, and keep in mind, we're 00:30:37.329 --> 00:30:39.730 selling really complex software, so you have 00:30:39.730 --> 00:30:41.410 meetings with like 10 different stakeholders, 00:30:41.789 --> 00:30:43.750 and they all have different needs. You just ask 00:30:43.750 --> 00:30:45.809 them, hey, what do you guys want to see? What 00:30:45.809 --> 00:30:47.470 problems do you have that I can help you fix? 00:30:47.849 --> 00:30:49.910 Instead of me trying to guess what the problems 00:30:49.910 --> 00:30:52.609 are and then showcase something you're not really 00:30:52.609 --> 00:30:54.710 interested in, when you do that and then you 00:30:54.710 --> 00:30:56.490 actually do a presentation after that, oh my 00:30:56.490 --> 00:30:59.130 god, the results were amazing. Because all of 00:30:59.130 --> 00:31:01.109 a sudden, like your finance guy was saying, actually, 00:31:01.210 --> 00:31:03.650 I need to really improve the forecasting for 00:31:03.650 --> 00:31:05.369 the company. That's awesome. Let me show you 00:31:05.369 --> 00:31:08.130 the forecasting tool. The conversation gets so 00:31:08.130 --> 00:31:10.109 much more specific, and also they trust you a 00:31:10.109 --> 00:31:12.450 lot better because they know you're not just 00:31:12.450 --> 00:31:15.809 filling the air with empty words. It's like every 00:31:15.809 --> 00:31:19.410 word you say hits the nail in the head. Then 00:31:19.410 --> 00:31:21.890 you always want to spend some time with the salesperson 00:31:21.890 --> 00:31:23.109 because they know what you're talking about. 00:31:23.769 --> 00:31:26.549 Exactly. Yeah. I always liken it to going out 00:31:26.549 --> 00:31:29.029 for a meal. If you sit down at a restaurant and 00:31:29.029 --> 00:31:32.430 your menu is 50 pages long, you know you're not 00:31:32.430 --> 00:31:35.230 going to get the best meal. But if you walk into 00:31:35.230 --> 00:31:37.390 a Michelin star restaurant and they sit down 00:31:37.390 --> 00:31:40.190 and they go, we prepared a menu based on all 00:31:40.190 --> 00:31:42.630 the photos you've put on Instagram and all the 00:31:42.630 --> 00:31:45.730 reviews you've done online. This is what we think 00:31:45.730 --> 00:31:47.849 you'd enjoy. You're going to have the best meal 00:31:47.849 --> 00:31:50.859 of your life. And that is what I think doing 00:31:50.859 --> 00:31:53.519 a good sales pitch is. It's hearing all the problems, 00:31:53.920 --> 00:31:56.740 cutting through all the sort of nonsense that's 00:31:56.740 --> 00:31:59.259 in there, understanding the real problem and 00:31:59.259 --> 00:32:02.059 going, my solution is made for you because I'm 00:32:02.059 --> 00:32:03.819 not going to waste your time with everything 00:32:03.819 --> 00:32:06.200 that I can do. I'm just going to talk about this 00:32:06.200 --> 00:32:08.819 one thing because that's what you actually care 00:32:08.819 --> 00:32:11.240 about. I think it's one thing I also learned 00:32:11.240 --> 00:32:14.200 was the ability to say no to the person you're 00:32:14.200 --> 00:32:16.599 trying to sell to. because they always assume 00:32:16.599 --> 00:32:18.640 you're a salesperson. You're going to say yes 00:32:18.640 --> 00:32:21.359 to everything. All my problems have one solution. 00:32:21.380 --> 00:32:23.480 The solution is the magic hammer you have. But 00:32:23.480 --> 00:32:25.740 in reality, we should say it's actually the opposite. 00:32:25.859 --> 00:32:28.079 You know what? I have, yes, I do have a hammer. 00:32:28.220 --> 00:32:30.119 I'm not sure if you have the right size nails 00:32:30.119 --> 00:32:32.740 to fix or to hammer around. And when you do that, 00:32:32.839 --> 00:32:34.420 they're like, oh, so you're not going to try 00:32:34.420 --> 00:32:37.160 to push anything to me and sell me? No, it might 00:32:37.160 --> 00:32:38.880 work, might not work. I'm here just to tell you 00:32:38.880 --> 00:32:40.440 if it's a good match and then you make the decision 00:32:40.440 --> 00:32:44.160 yourself. Ah, okay. that makes it completely 00:32:44.160 --> 00:32:46.579 swaps the roles and people just trust you a lot 00:32:46.579 --> 00:32:49.259 more when you do that. And I actually walked 00:32:49.259 --> 00:32:51.579 away from a couple of deals because I just told 00:32:51.579 --> 00:32:54.519 them, hey, it's not a good match. This company 00:32:54.519 --> 00:32:56.880 is a much, much better match for you. And then 00:32:56.880 --> 00:32:58.079 a couple of months down the line, I'll reach 00:32:58.079 --> 00:32:59.940 you like a couple of weeks after, hey, Ricardo, 00:33:00.099 --> 00:33:01.480 I know you're selling this software, you're doing 00:33:01.480 --> 00:33:03.640 this. Let me introduce you to this guy. He actually 00:33:03.640 --> 00:33:05.359 has a need, which I think you can actually fulfill. 00:33:05.539 --> 00:33:08.859 Yeah, awesome, cool. Absolutely. Yeah. I always, 00:33:08.940 --> 00:33:11.039 you know, used to say I'll be the most honest 00:33:11.039 --> 00:33:13.380 sales person you sit down with because I'll tell 00:33:13.380 --> 00:33:15.539 you if we're not going to work together. And 00:33:15.539 --> 00:33:18.440 it's the same with some of my clients. I will 00:33:18.440 --> 00:33:22.599 either like fire them or never start in the beginning 00:33:22.599 --> 00:33:26.400 because if I can tell that we're not going to 00:33:26.400 --> 00:33:28.319 mesh or I'm not going to be able to provide you 00:33:28.319 --> 00:33:30.960 what you need, I don't want to waste your time. 00:33:31.000 --> 00:33:34.630 I don't want to waste my time. And so let's just 00:33:34.630 --> 00:33:37.329 stay connected, have a nice relationship, but 00:33:37.329 --> 00:33:40.190 never have to go down that specific road. And 00:33:40.190 --> 00:33:42.609 people are surprised when you reject them, but 00:33:42.609 --> 00:33:45.009 you know, it's nice. It's not something I've 00:33:45.009 --> 00:33:47.049 been able to do very much in my life. I've only 00:33:47.049 --> 00:33:49.890 ever been rejected. I feel very powerful. Come 00:33:49.890 --> 00:33:52.490 on. But I think it actually works in dating as 00:33:52.490 --> 00:33:55.609 well. People don't realize that. It's not a one 00:33:55.609 --> 00:33:58.109 size fits all type of thing. It's like, who would 00:33:58.109 --> 00:34:00.009 be a good match? And then if they're not a good 00:34:00.009 --> 00:34:01.630 match, if you just say, you're not going to be 00:34:01.630 --> 00:34:04.140 a good match. Why? Well, because you're a six 00:34:04.140 --> 00:34:06.619 foot tall Swedish supermodel and whilst I do 00:34:06.619 --> 00:34:08.320 appreciate the extra height to reach, you know, 00:34:08.420 --> 00:34:10.360 in the kitchen cabinet, I don't think it's really 00:34:10.360 --> 00:34:11.820 going to work because I really don't like that 00:34:11.820 --> 00:34:15.619 rotten fish you guys eat in the tin can. When 00:34:15.619 --> 00:34:17.539 you say that, you're like, oh wow. Obviously, 00:34:17.739 --> 00:34:19.800 I might think twice about rotten fish if it's 00:34:19.800 --> 00:34:23.960 a Swedish supermodel, but... What's really funny, 00:34:24.159 --> 00:34:26.639 Ricardo, is I'm married to a Swedish woman! No 00:34:26.639 --> 00:34:30.079 way! That is actually, okay, that is a clue why 00:34:30.079 --> 00:34:31.840 you're going Sweden then. Okay, interesting. 00:34:32.260 --> 00:34:35.219 That's so funny! But they don't eat the fish. 00:34:35.820 --> 00:34:37.659 Yeah, they do eat the fish. You know what I'm 00:34:37.659 --> 00:34:39.780 talking about? The thin ones. The strumming, 00:34:39.980 --> 00:34:43.860 yeah. Yeah, that's a bit... Although I do like 00:34:43.860 --> 00:34:46.800 the amounts of licorice that everyone in Nordics 00:34:46.800 --> 00:34:49.599 eats. But do you like licorice? I can bring some 00:34:49.599 --> 00:34:51.860 back for you. I'm not a big fan but... It stands 00:34:51.860 --> 00:34:55.639 for licorice. I think... Okay. So we in Portugal, 00:34:56.000 --> 00:34:57.599 they have this... all the shopping centers have 00:34:57.599 --> 00:35:01.820 this candy shop and the licorice box is always 00:35:01.820 --> 00:35:03.440 full because no one ever buys licorice apart 00:35:03.440 --> 00:35:05.400 from me apparently every time I go there. So 00:35:05.400 --> 00:35:07.199 I just absolutely love licorice. Okay, I'm gonna 00:35:07.199 --> 00:35:09.360 come back with some really strong licorice for 00:35:09.360 --> 00:35:11.920 you. I like the salt bombs, you know the salt 00:35:11.920 --> 00:35:13.619 bombs you put in your mouth and it explodes. 00:35:13.960 --> 00:35:17.250 Yes. Yeah. Yeah, I know exactly what I'm getting 00:35:17.250 --> 00:35:20.349 here. Thank you. I love them. Once I was in this 00:35:20.349 --> 00:35:24.429 company and this, my colleague Alex, he's Danish 00:35:24.429 --> 00:35:26.730 and every time we went to our home countries, 00:35:26.929 --> 00:35:28.829 we bring something. I brought some pistachios, 00:35:28.929 --> 00:35:31.769 he brought some salt bombs. No one, 30 people, 00:35:31.949 --> 00:35:33.650 no one ate them apart from me. So I was like, 00:35:33.909 --> 00:35:36.489 the rest of the month just me eating them, loving 00:35:36.489 --> 00:35:39.230 it. It was amazing. They're so strong, I can't 00:35:39.230 --> 00:35:42.190 have them. Literally every couple of months or 00:35:42.190 --> 00:35:45.059 year, really. I'll try them because I always 00:35:45.059 --> 00:35:48.619 want to enjoy it. The salt alone blows my head 00:35:48.619 --> 00:35:50.840 off. I can't even get to the licorice flavor. 00:35:51.760 --> 00:35:53.139 Interesting. They're good in the cold day though. 00:35:53.280 --> 00:35:55.440 If you're walking like in there's like snowy 00:35:55.440 --> 00:35:57.039 conditions or something like that, they actually, 00:35:57.139 --> 00:35:59.139 I think they elevated your heart rate. So that's 00:35:59.139 --> 00:36:01.360 actually quite good. That's probably why the 00:36:01.360 --> 00:36:03.320 Swedes like them then. Probably. Yeah, there's 00:36:03.320 --> 00:36:05.900 just a little boost. There you go. But yeah, 00:36:06.260 --> 00:36:09.739 completely off topic. Yeah, absolutely. Speaking 00:36:09.739 --> 00:36:12.869 of topics. What advice, or going back to topic, 00:36:13.130 --> 00:36:15.710 what advice would you give to entrepreneur that 00:36:15.710 --> 00:36:17.050 they're launching their business, they don't 00:36:17.050 --> 00:36:19.329 really know how to do sales? What would you tell 00:36:19.329 --> 00:36:22.610 them to do? So I would give them my three golden 00:36:22.610 --> 00:36:26.809 rules of sales. The first is to be positive because 00:36:26.809 --> 00:36:29.449 whatever you're about to do is going to be tough. 00:36:29.610 --> 00:36:31.489 You're going to get rejected. You're going to 00:36:31.489 --> 00:36:34.929 have bad news. And so keeping a positive mindset 00:36:34.929 --> 00:36:37.869 is hands down the most important thing that you 00:36:37.869 --> 00:36:41.480 can do. The second thing is being persistent. 00:36:42.079 --> 00:36:44.039 It's what everyone shies away from. It's why 00:36:44.039 --> 00:36:47.619 we've talked about rejection, but sales is about 00:36:47.619 --> 00:36:50.000 persistence. People don't respond to a first 00:36:50.000 --> 00:36:52.400 message. In fact, I think it's something ridiculous. 00:36:52.619 --> 00:36:55.539 Like 80 % of contracts get signed after five 00:36:55.539 --> 00:37:00.119 follow ups. So if you're going to fight, like 00:37:00.119 --> 00:37:02.639 no one will fight for your business as hard as 00:37:02.639 --> 00:37:05.539 you will. And so you've got to be persistent. 00:37:05.960 --> 00:37:08.579 And then the third thing is really the only way 00:37:08.579 --> 00:37:11.460 you can do the first two, which is to be brave. 00:37:12.039 --> 00:37:15.260 You have got to push yourself out of your comfort 00:37:15.260 --> 00:37:18.099 zone. It doesn't have to be massively. You don't 00:37:18.099 --> 00:37:20.460 have to do things you don't morally agree with, 00:37:20.800 --> 00:37:23.900 but you have to push yourself because only then 00:37:23.900 --> 00:37:26.260 are you going to grow and achieve something. 00:37:26.510 --> 00:37:30.150 And whenever I say that, I always say, as a challenge, 00:37:30.610 --> 00:37:33.369 if right now, hearing that, there's a voice in 00:37:33.369 --> 00:37:35.909 your head going, oh, yeah, that is that person 00:37:35.909 --> 00:37:38.130 I've been avoiding calling, or that is that email 00:37:38.130 --> 00:37:42.250 I've been not sending. Just go do it. Go see 00:37:42.250 --> 00:37:44.829 what happens. And if you get a contract, 10 % 00:37:44.829 --> 00:37:46.730 commission. But that's the thing. It's about 00:37:46.730 --> 00:37:49.289 the ability to... I think actors actually get 00:37:49.289 --> 00:37:52.940 this really, really well. to be judged and to 00:37:52.940 --> 00:37:54.900 make mistakes and to make mistakes in public, 00:37:54.900 --> 00:37:58.739 right? Because when you go on stage or before 00:37:58.739 --> 00:38:02.539 the opening night, you make so much mistakes 00:38:02.539 --> 00:38:05.260 in the way you interpret that character and the 00:38:05.260 --> 00:38:06.920 way they should speak, the way they should move, 00:38:07.400 --> 00:38:10.119 are they like higher pitch, lower pitch, should 00:38:10.119 --> 00:38:12.159 they speak, you know, so many different things 00:38:12.159 --> 00:38:15.340 that getting that feedback can either destroy 00:38:15.340 --> 00:38:18.280 you or build you up. But as long as you assume 00:38:18.280 --> 00:38:21.380 that as a salesperson or as a CEO or as a founder, 00:38:22.139 --> 00:38:24.219 you're learning what works, what doesn't work. 00:38:24.320 --> 00:38:26.300 And that person selling is different than who 00:38:26.300 --> 00:38:28.840 you are in your intimate moments. That's completely 00:38:28.840 --> 00:38:30.960 fine. Like if you're on a shirt, okay, this is 00:38:30.960 --> 00:38:33.519 my sales shirt. Technically, this is my podcast 00:38:33.519 --> 00:38:36.059 shirt. Well, clearly me too. I mean, I got the 00:38:36.059 --> 00:38:39.360 memo. It's blue podcast shirt. But that's the 00:38:39.360 --> 00:38:41.000 thing. You put on this, it's like, okay, podcast 00:38:41.000 --> 00:38:43.679 mode on. Cool. And you know, the mindset completely 00:38:43.679 --> 00:38:46.340 swaps. But if I'm wearing, I don't know, a tank 00:38:46.340 --> 00:38:48.739 top or is it tank top, the men wear tank top, 00:38:48.960 --> 00:38:51.219 slivvish? Q -cap, you can wear whatever you want. 00:38:51.880 --> 00:38:55.980 But yeah. Is this how you call it? Slivvish top, 00:38:56.119 --> 00:38:58.579 I guess. Then probably shouldn't be doing a podcast 00:38:58.579 --> 00:39:01.079 because it's like still relaxed mode. Not really 00:39:01.079 --> 00:39:03.760 the type of podcast we want. But yeah. Yeah, 00:39:04.000 --> 00:39:06.219 absolutely. Tez, as we're nearing the end of 00:39:06.219 --> 00:39:08.579 the podcast, if people want to reach out to you, 00:39:08.579 --> 00:39:11.400 what's the best way of doing so? So, best thing 00:39:11.400 --> 00:39:14.159 that they can do is either find me on LinkedIn, 00:39:14.300 --> 00:39:17.860 I'm really active there and it's just... I think 00:39:17.860 --> 00:39:20.260 I'm the only Tash Rebuck on LinkedIn, but you 00:39:20.260 --> 00:39:22.440 can challenge me on that if I'm wrong. Or you 00:39:22.440 --> 00:39:24.380 can come and visit my website. I've actually 00:39:24.380 --> 00:39:28.179 just redone it. So please go and enjoy. It's 00:39:28.179 --> 00:39:32.219 trsalesconsultancy .co .uk. And you can reach 00:39:32.219 --> 00:39:34.960 out to me there. Book 30 minutes free. We chat 00:39:34.960 --> 00:39:37.280 through your business, see if I can help. Like 00:39:37.280 --> 00:39:39.699 we were saying, only if I'm the right fit. But 00:39:39.699 --> 00:39:42.360 yeah, anyone who resonated with it, I'd love 00:39:42.360 --> 00:39:45.099 to hear from you. Sounds good. Thanks. Thank 00:39:45.099 --> 00:39:46.300 you so much for your time. It's been an absolute 00:39:46.300 --> 00:39:49.480 pleasure. Thank you for having me. The podcast 00:39:49.480 --> 00:39:53.239 is sponsored by Startupsummit .io, a today event 00:39:53.239 --> 00:39:56.139 bringing together 2000 founders, investors and 00:39:56.139 --> 00:39:58.780 industry leaders from across Europe. As a thank 00:39:58.780 --> 00:40:00.599 you for being part of the podcast community, 00:40:01.179 --> 00:40:04.019 we are now offering 50 % off all tickets by using 00:40:04.019 --> 00:40:06.980 the code podcast in all capitals on the website. 00:40:07.360 --> 00:40:08.099 See you in Lisbon.