WEBVTT 00:00:33.480 --> 00:00:37.039 The podcast is sponsored by Startupsummit .io, 00:00:37.719 --> 00:00:40.100 a today event bringing together 2 ,000 founders, 00:00:40.399 --> 00:00:42.780 investors and industry leaders from across Europe. 00:00:43.420 --> 00:00:45.159 As a thank you for being part of the podcast 00:00:45.159 --> 00:00:48.539 community, we are now offering 50 % off all tickets 00:00:48.539 --> 00:00:51.539 by using the code podcast in all capitals on 00:00:51.539 --> 00:00:54.299 the website. See you in Lisbon. Hi, and welcome 00:00:54.299 --> 00:00:56.719 to another episode of the Innovation Conversation. 00:00:57.200 --> 00:00:59.380 Today, we are joined by Molly Jenner. Molly, 00:00:59.420 --> 00:01:01.750 welcome to the podcast. Hi, thanks for having 00:01:01.750 --> 00:01:04.250 me. It's fun to be on this side of it. Normally 00:01:04.250 --> 00:01:06.390 I'm on the other side interviewing, so I'm a 00:01:06.390 --> 00:01:08.010 little nervous. Now I understand how my guests 00:01:08.010 --> 00:01:12.030 feel. Okay. Molly, would you like to introduce 00:01:12.030 --> 00:01:13.709 yourself to the audience, please? Yeah, sure, 00:01:13.750 --> 00:01:16.569 of course. So Molly Johner, CEO of Spring and 00:01:16.569 --> 00:01:19.450 Forge, we're a go -to -market accelerator, helping 00:01:19.450 --> 00:01:22.670 startups primarily in hard tech, defense tech, 00:01:22.750 --> 00:01:25.150 dual -use tech spaces. If you're making something, 00:01:25.290 --> 00:01:26.909 kind of go to market and then go to funding. 00:01:26.989 --> 00:01:29.810 And we really focus on going to or focusing on 00:01:29.810 --> 00:01:32.030 non -dilutive capital. So how do we connect you 00:01:32.030 --> 00:01:34.370 to government grants, contracts, and different 00:01:34.370 --> 00:01:35.790 things of that nature? So that's kind of where 00:01:35.790 --> 00:01:38.609 we focus. Now, how do you get started in this? 00:01:39.340 --> 00:01:41.180 I mean, I started doing marketing out of school, 00:01:41.400 --> 00:01:43.620 in school. You know, I was like in college and 00:01:43.620 --> 00:01:45.079 got the first internship. You know, you just 00:01:45.079 --> 00:01:46.280 don't even think about it. You're just like, 00:01:46.379 --> 00:01:48.019 that sounds good. You apply for it. And then 00:01:48.019 --> 00:01:50.799 I really liked it. And it was, it was, oh my 00:01:50.799 --> 00:01:52.280 gosh, I'm going to date myself, but it was way 00:01:52.280 --> 00:01:54.319 back when people still sent direct mail. Like 00:01:54.319 --> 00:01:55.760 you looked at the envelopes and like you sent 00:01:55.760 --> 00:01:58.760 the swag in the mail, but no, I loved it despite 00:01:58.760 --> 00:02:01.019 that. And I loved connecting with people and 00:02:01.019 --> 00:02:03.140 networking and talking and promoting things. 00:02:03.400 --> 00:02:05.969 And so. I was a natural fit and just kind of 00:02:05.969 --> 00:02:07.370 moved through my career doing different things. 00:02:07.430 --> 00:02:09.650 I really focused in on aerospace. I love working 00:02:09.650 --> 00:02:11.650 with engineers. They typically mean what they 00:02:11.650 --> 00:02:13.750 say and say what they mean, which is really refreshing. 00:02:13.949 --> 00:02:16.090 And, and I also was just fascinated by the space. 00:02:16.250 --> 00:02:18.449 You know, it's really, really cool. And there's 00:02:18.449 --> 00:02:20.430 a lot of cutting edge tech happening. And I think 00:02:20.430 --> 00:02:22.330 we've all been interested in playing from little, 00:02:22.469 --> 00:02:23.710 but when you're little, you're interested in 00:02:23.710 --> 00:02:25.710 planes and flying things and, you know, going 00:02:25.710 --> 00:02:28.509 into orbit and space. And so, yeah, that's kind 00:02:28.509 --> 00:02:34.199 of how, how it went. No, no, my husband is an 00:02:34.199 --> 00:02:36.379 aerospace engineer. So that's helpful. And we 00:02:36.379 --> 00:02:39.460 met young, but no, none myself. No, just marketing. 00:02:39.819 --> 00:02:42.139 And then you kind of got into the defense phase. 00:02:42.180 --> 00:02:44.659 How was that transition? Yes. So I had the, of 00:02:44.659 --> 00:02:47.120 the fortune, a fortune of meeting major general 00:02:47.120 --> 00:02:50.439 retired now, Chris Hughes, who is the CEO of 00:02:50.439 --> 00:02:52.719 The Way Forward. And we've been working together 00:02:52.719 --> 00:02:55.400 now for the last five, six years, and he is. 00:02:55.469 --> 00:02:58.389 wonderful. And he's got a great group of folks 00:02:58.389 --> 00:03:01.250 that, you know, help sell and connect in the 00:03:01.250 --> 00:03:04.229 DOD, Air Force, Army, Navy, name it right, military 00:03:04.229 --> 00:03:06.789 in some capacity. And so we've kind of partnered 00:03:06.789 --> 00:03:08.889 on that level. And it's been really great. I've 00:03:08.889 --> 00:03:11.900 learned a ton about grants and contracts and 00:03:11.900 --> 00:03:13.939 primes and subs and all the lingo, right? And 00:03:13.939 --> 00:03:15.699 then including like, what does a soft landing 00:03:15.699 --> 00:03:17.439 look like? So if you're, you know, in the UK 00:03:17.439 --> 00:03:19.060 and you're trying to sell to the US military, 00:03:19.159 --> 00:03:20.580 what does that look like? How do we do that? 00:03:20.659 --> 00:03:22.560 And then so being able to navigate those processes 00:03:22.560 --> 00:03:24.439 has been something that we've kind of learned 00:03:24.439 --> 00:03:26.979 over the course of multiple years. And now I've 00:03:26.979 --> 00:03:28.939 kind of, I won't say perfected because it's always 00:03:28.939 --> 00:03:31.099 changing, but we definitely have a handle on 00:03:31.099 --> 00:03:33.180 it. That's what I will say. Do you find a lot 00:03:33.180 --> 00:03:35.659 of starts moving to the UK, to the US? No, that's 00:03:35.659 --> 00:03:37.919 just an example. I have a couple that are interested 00:03:37.919 --> 00:03:40.479 in doing that. No, to be clear, there are a few 00:03:40.479 --> 00:03:42.560 really interesting ones in the UK, but it's just 00:03:42.560 --> 00:03:44.159 kind of across the world. If you're building, 00:03:44.340 --> 00:03:45.759 like there's so much interest, especially in 00:03:45.759 --> 00:03:48.800 like drone tech right now for all the reasons 00:03:48.800 --> 00:03:50.620 that you might expect. And so then it's like, 00:03:50.740 --> 00:03:53.680 how do we sell into the States, but then also 00:03:53.680 --> 00:03:56.240 within the States, like how are we Building like 00:03:56.240 --> 00:03:58.080 wound care is something that you might not think 00:03:58.080 --> 00:04:00.639 of as something that's applicable for the military, 00:04:00.680 --> 00:04:02.240 but it is, right? Like you're creating this thing 00:04:02.240 --> 00:04:03.900 and it's like a quick patch, right? So first 00:04:03.900 --> 00:04:06.340 responders, military, or off -road vehicles. 00:04:06.740 --> 00:04:08.939 We have some interesting ones in that space. 00:04:09.099 --> 00:04:11.139 So it really kind of just depends. There's a 00:04:11.139 --> 00:04:13.199 lot of opportunity that you might not otherwise 00:04:13.199 --> 00:04:14.860 think about when you think about selling to the 00:04:14.860 --> 00:04:17.720 military. So a lot of good companies. And how 00:04:17.720 --> 00:04:20.040 do they see you coming in and obviously not having 00:04:20.040 --> 00:04:27.290 a military background? I mean, I have a lot of 00:04:27.290 --> 00:04:29.410 really great sponsors is what I will say. Right. 00:04:29.670 --> 00:04:31.629 So and I've had, and I am, you know, there is 00:04:31.629 --> 00:04:33.430 definitely a whole nother language when you're 00:04:33.430 --> 00:04:35.410 speaking to folks who work in the government 00:04:35.410 --> 00:04:39.040 and the military. But and I think there's a level 00:04:39.040 --> 00:04:41.259 of like respect that comes with like, you know, 00:04:41.259 --> 00:04:43.180 just if I come with a respectful attitude, like 00:04:43.180 --> 00:04:45.639 people are people. And so they're like open to 00:04:45.639 --> 00:04:47.079 talking and working with you no matter where 00:04:47.079 --> 00:04:48.740 you're coming from. But like I said, I've had 00:04:48.740 --> 00:04:51.540 a couple of great sponsors like Chris and Pat 00:04:51.540 --> 00:04:53.360 and a couple others that are, you know, have 00:04:53.360 --> 00:04:56.180 served for many, many years, decades. And, you 00:04:56.180 --> 00:04:57.699 know, then they make introductions or you come 00:04:57.699 --> 00:04:59.399 with them to meetings and it kind of immediately 00:04:59.399 --> 00:05:01.259 breaks down that barrier and opens those doors. 00:05:01.500 --> 00:05:04.240 So then it's not a non -issue after that. Did 00:05:04.240 --> 00:05:06.300 they get to, like, did everything through Area 00:05:06.300 --> 00:05:08.740 51 or something like that? No, but you know what? 00:05:08.759 --> 00:05:10.639 They talk about aliens. Well, we can't talk about 00:05:10.639 --> 00:05:12.199 this right now. It's classified. And I'm like, 00:05:12.420 --> 00:05:14.699 OK, aliens. But no, there's all these really 00:05:14.699 --> 00:05:16.819 interesting things you learn and you don't realize. 00:05:17.680 --> 00:05:19.519 I mean, I didn't realize, you know, as a part 00:05:19.519 --> 00:05:20.879 of the government and the different things that 00:05:20.879 --> 00:05:22.759 they're doing. And you're like, OK, that's interesting. 00:05:22.839 --> 00:05:26.180 And all the classified information and the clearances 00:05:26.180 --> 00:05:29.439 and it's interesting for sure. So how would this 00:05:29.439 --> 00:05:31.800 start? that obviously has a product that they 00:05:31.800 --> 00:05:33.459 want to sell to the military. How would they 00:05:33.459 --> 00:05:34.860 go about that? What's the best way of doing that? 00:05:35.040 --> 00:05:36.939 Well, I would have a commercialization strategy 00:05:36.939 --> 00:05:39.379 first. So how are you selling it, you know, to 00:05:39.379 --> 00:05:41.800 normal people is what I will say first. Make 00:05:41.800 --> 00:05:42.939 sure that you have that because that actually 00:05:42.939 --> 00:05:45.079 makes you more attractive to the military. So 00:05:45.079 --> 00:05:47.040 most of the grants that you're going to submit 00:05:47.040 --> 00:05:49.680 for, there's three, there's CBER 1, CBER 2, CBER 00:05:49.680 --> 00:05:52.319 3, right? And each one is varying stages. CBER 00:05:52.319 --> 00:05:55.180 1 is essentially a white paper, right? What is 00:05:55.180 --> 00:05:59.019 my, what am I creating? What is my idea? Are 00:05:59.019 --> 00:06:00.959 you do you think this is cool? Sibber 2 is where 00:06:00.959 --> 00:06:02.579 you have really like a proof of concept and then 00:06:02.579 --> 00:06:04.019 Sibber 3 is like you're really starting to scale 00:06:04.019 --> 00:06:05.980 and you're building this this thing at scale 00:06:05.980 --> 00:06:08.319 for the military. But one of the things I always 00:06:08.319 --> 00:06:11.079 tell people is make sure you have a really strong 00:06:11.079 --> 00:06:13.620 commercialization strategy and get some letters 00:06:13.620 --> 00:06:16.199 of intent from businesses who also think that 00:06:16.199 --> 00:06:18.500 this is a good idea, right? Maybe not like financial 00:06:18.500 --> 00:06:20.959 commitments, but like hey, I would use this if 00:06:20.959 --> 00:06:23.339 you built it. kind of a letter because then what 00:06:23.339 --> 00:06:25.879 happens is the military thinks okay it's not 00:06:25.879 --> 00:06:27.939 just they're not just building it for us there's 00:06:27.939 --> 00:06:31.180 actually applications all over and that actually 00:06:31.180 --> 00:06:32.899 strengthens your case but i would say so that's 00:06:32.899 --> 00:06:34.980 the first thing commercialization strategy how 00:06:34.980 --> 00:06:37.040 are you selling this thing don't bank on it just 00:06:37.040 --> 00:06:39.500 being military or government because that's not 00:06:39.500 --> 00:06:42.480 a winning strategy it can help augment for sure 00:06:42.480 --> 00:06:44.540 and help fund a lot of it but it's not that be 00:06:44.540 --> 00:06:47.069 all end all The second thing would be if you 00:06:47.069 --> 00:06:50.170 can get some traction. So if you have, like I 00:06:50.170 --> 00:06:52.230 said, the letters of intent, if you have some 00:06:52.230 --> 00:06:54.449 customers who want to see a beta, you know, that's 00:06:54.449 --> 00:06:56.649 obviously, you know, important. And then I would 00:06:56.649 --> 00:06:58.670 say, find some really good advisors. There's 00:06:58.670 --> 00:07:02.610 a lot of folks out there that are not good advisors. 00:07:02.930 --> 00:07:04.769 There's a lot, I mean, there's lobbyists and 00:07:04.769 --> 00:07:07.189 there's a lot of folks out there in the industry 00:07:07.189 --> 00:07:09.569 that will take your money and open doors for 00:07:09.569 --> 00:07:11.370 you or point you in a certain direction, but 00:07:11.370 --> 00:07:13.829 it might not be the right direction. And so when 00:07:13.829 --> 00:07:16.069 I would say, do your research. What are you trying 00:07:16.069 --> 00:07:18.490 to do? Is who you're talking to? Are they working 00:07:18.490 --> 00:07:20.689 on things that are aligned to your mission? Because 00:07:20.689 --> 00:07:23.610 ultimately, you need to serve the company's interests, 00:07:23.649 --> 00:07:25.910 not the military's interests, if that makes sense. 00:07:25.970 --> 00:07:27.529 So that's how I would say we should get started. 00:07:28.069 --> 00:07:32.430 Do you sell to a big agency? How does it work? 00:07:32.490 --> 00:07:35.550 Do you sell to independent states? Yeah, both. 00:07:35.829 --> 00:07:37.470 Yeah, totally both. So you can do all of that. 00:07:37.490 --> 00:07:39.949 So you can sell to the federal government. And 00:07:39.949 --> 00:07:41.629 there's different agencies within that. So you 00:07:41.629 --> 00:07:48.529 can sell to... FEMA, CDC, right? There's different 00:07:48.529 --> 00:07:50.769 buckets within. So if you're med tech, you can 00:07:50.769 --> 00:07:52.529 look at the CDC. You can think about FEMA, which 00:07:52.529 --> 00:07:55.129 is first responders. At the state level, they 00:07:55.129 --> 00:07:58.069 all have smaller versions of the federal piece. 00:07:58.550 --> 00:08:00.730 So I'll use the state of Missouri as an example. 00:08:01.550 --> 00:08:05.259 They have, I think, a $500 million kind of not 00:08:05.259 --> 00:08:08.220 grant, but like open call right now to do disaster 00:08:08.220 --> 00:08:10.459 relief and disaster funding. And so that could 00:08:10.459 --> 00:08:13.279 look like tiny homes, off -road vehicles, wound 00:08:13.279 --> 00:08:14.779 care, right? It could look like a lot of different 00:08:14.779 --> 00:08:17.120 things and they're looking for companies to do 00:08:17.120 --> 00:08:20.459 that. And so it just depends on the state and 00:08:20.459 --> 00:08:23.100 what their governor or their mandate is, right? 00:08:23.180 --> 00:08:24.579 Delivering on the mandate is one of the more 00:08:24.579 --> 00:08:26.160 important things that they can do as a governor. 00:08:26.439 --> 00:08:27.959 And so looking and seeing what they're passionate 00:08:27.959 --> 00:08:30.360 about, there's usually where the funds are. And 00:08:30.360 --> 00:08:31.779 so I would say from a state level, that's probably 00:08:31.779 --> 00:08:33.539 what you'd want to do. But there's never like 00:08:33.539 --> 00:08:35.580 a one size fits all right. So we kind of need 00:08:35.580 --> 00:08:38.360 to change based on the state. Yeah, based on 00:08:38.360 --> 00:08:41.120 the state and also depending on what you're building. 00:08:41.580 --> 00:08:43.379 Right. So if you're a drone operator and you're 00:08:43.379 --> 00:08:45.080 building a drone tech, that has a lot of different 00:08:45.080 --> 00:08:48.080 applications. It could be. Border Patrol it could 00:08:48.080 --> 00:08:51.220 be first responders. It could be organ transport 00:08:51.220 --> 00:08:53.080 which actually I've seen like organ transplant 00:08:53.080 --> 00:08:54.940 and transport So like there's just different 00:08:54.940 --> 00:08:56.840 applications right for each thing and it's like 00:08:56.840 --> 00:08:58.320 which direction do you want to take? Because 00:08:58.320 --> 00:08:59.919 then you can get different funding based on like 00:08:59.919 --> 00:09:01.460 what that's why I say it should align to your 00:09:01.460 --> 00:09:04.120 mission Don't build it because the government's 00:09:04.120 --> 00:09:05.879 gonna give you money for it build it because 00:09:05.879 --> 00:09:07.820 you believe in it and you want to do it and then 00:09:07.820 --> 00:09:09.799 find The funding that that supports that is what 00:09:09.799 --> 00:09:11.820 I would say, you know, I'm sure you obviously 00:09:11.820 --> 00:09:15.200 made a lot of startups Are you able to pick the 00:09:15.200 --> 00:09:17.159 ones that are going to be successful or not just 00:09:17.159 --> 00:09:19.360 looking at them? Have you developed that magic 00:09:19.360 --> 00:09:23.440 touch yet? Yeah. I mean, I ask this question 00:09:23.440 --> 00:09:26.779 a lot actually on my podcast and I talk to a 00:09:26.779 --> 00:09:29.440 lot of startups and it's funny. I will say it's 00:09:29.440 --> 00:09:32.179 all about conviction. So how badly do you want 00:09:32.179 --> 00:09:34.019 this thing? It doesn't matter if you're really 00:09:34.019 --> 00:09:35.879 well funded, if you have the best product in 00:09:35.879 --> 00:09:39.370 the world. How much are you willing to withstand? 00:09:40.149 --> 00:09:42.710 Because it's so hard and it's like the ups and 00:09:42.710 --> 00:09:44.710 the downs. And so, you know, the people who usually 00:09:44.710 --> 00:09:46.789 make it at least through year one and they're 00:09:46.789 --> 00:09:49.149 now moving into year two and they're still like 00:09:49.149 --> 00:09:51.070 got their core team. They're working together. 00:09:51.190 --> 00:09:52.769 They're cohesive. They saw the same mission, 00:09:52.789 --> 00:09:54.850 the vision. I mean, that's when you know, OK, 00:09:54.889 --> 00:09:56.450 they have something and they're probably going 00:09:56.450 --> 00:09:58.110 to be successful because they're not going to 00:09:58.110 --> 00:10:00.350 give up until they are. And so it doesn't mean 00:10:00.350 --> 00:10:01.669 they're going to be a unicorn. It doesn't mean 00:10:01.669 --> 00:10:02.889 that they're going to make millions and billions 00:10:02.889 --> 00:10:06.039 of dollars. But are we building just unicorns? 00:10:06.120 --> 00:10:07.740 Like, I feel passionately about this. Like, I 00:10:07.740 --> 00:10:09.940 think we need to build good, sustainable businesses 00:10:09.940 --> 00:10:12.139 again. Bootstrapping is really just building 00:10:12.139 --> 00:10:14.539 a business, you know, and so we should focus 00:10:14.539 --> 00:10:16.740 more on that because revenue is your best investor. 00:10:16.879 --> 00:10:19.679 And so if you can build a strong business, then 00:10:19.679 --> 00:10:22.120 you'll partner with the right investors, I think. 00:10:24.039 --> 00:10:26.500 Because, you know, no, because obviously I meet 00:10:26.500 --> 00:10:27.919 a lot of people and they always come and say, 00:10:28.059 --> 00:10:30.100 we need funding to get to this stage and that 00:10:30.100 --> 00:10:33.169 stage, which I 100 % agree. you kind of do things 00:10:33.169 --> 00:10:35.750 up to a certain stage. However, they completely 00:10:35.750 --> 00:10:38.730 ignore bootstrapping and it feels like an overinflated 00:10:38.730 --> 00:10:41.509 balloon. Where the only reason that's for the 00:10:41.509 --> 00:10:42.990 startup is they keep on getting more funding 00:10:42.990 --> 00:10:44.870 and more funding and more funding, but they actually 00:10:44.870 --> 00:10:46.970 never make a profit and then keep on turning 00:10:46.970 --> 00:10:49.690 losses. I'm thinking Uber, which is a gigantic 00:10:49.690 --> 00:10:51.889 company by now, but they have how many years 00:10:51.889 --> 00:10:53.590 of losses? Some of the years of losses. That's 00:10:53.590 --> 00:10:55.590 just how they are about to turn a profit. So 00:10:55.590 --> 00:10:57.730 companies like that. Yeah. Well, and it's to 00:10:57.730 --> 00:10:59.870 your point too. It's like that hard place between 00:10:59.870 --> 00:11:03.360 like revenue and like getting to revenue that 00:11:03.360 --> 00:11:05.139 like the real magic happens. Like you really 00:11:05.139 --> 00:11:06.539 got to work hard. You have to be lean. You have 00:11:06.539 --> 00:11:08.320 to be fast. And it doesn't mean that people need 00:11:08.320 --> 00:11:10.159 to starve. Like that's not, that's not what I'm 00:11:10.159 --> 00:11:12.179 advocating. But I will say that when you get 00:11:12.179 --> 00:11:14.519 funding, it's a little bit cushier and now you 00:11:14.519 --> 00:11:16.620 can kind of relax a little bit. And maybe that's 00:11:16.620 --> 00:11:18.480 not a good thing. Is there, is there like a better 00:11:18.480 --> 00:11:21.620 location in the US to launch a business to run 00:11:21.620 --> 00:11:24.200 the startup? Gosh. Well, it depends on the startup. 00:11:24.360 --> 00:11:26.419 So I mean, what are you building? Right? So you 00:11:26.419 --> 00:11:29.720 think about Austin, Texas, and San Antonio, Texas 00:11:29.720 --> 00:11:32.679 is great for a lot of space tech. So as Long 00:11:32.679 --> 00:11:34.879 Beach, California, think about, you know, if 00:11:34.879 --> 00:11:37.379 you're going to be doing AI SaaS based things, 00:11:37.399 --> 00:11:39.559 like find your community, they're all over. And 00:11:39.559 --> 00:11:41.879 I actually just talked to a startup who is in 00:11:41.879 --> 00:11:43.940 Detroit, and there's a thriving startup community 00:11:43.940 --> 00:11:46.120 there focused on manufacturing and like all the 00:11:46.120 --> 00:11:47.620 things you might think, like, it just depends 00:11:47.620 --> 00:11:50.299 on where you are in the pockets of the states 00:11:50.299 --> 00:11:52.720 and, and just find your people because I will 00:11:52.720 --> 00:11:55.159 say like, while Zoom is fantastic. There is something 00:11:55.159 --> 00:11:57.659 to be said for occasionally meeting in person 00:11:57.659 --> 00:12:00.120 and talking to people. Yeah. No, I agree with 00:12:00.120 --> 00:12:03.580 that 100%. And, you know, what are the big no 00:12:03.580 --> 00:12:05.399 -no's for startups? What are those things you 00:12:05.399 --> 00:12:07.399 kind of know from the echo? Just don't do this 00:12:07.399 --> 00:12:10.090 because you're going to fail. Yeah, well, I would 00:12:10.090 --> 00:12:13.309 say hiring is really important. Keep your cap 00:12:13.309 --> 00:12:15.409 table clean. I mean, don't add like, you know, 00:12:15.429 --> 00:12:17.169 all of a sudden now you've got 12 people who 00:12:17.169 --> 00:12:18.990 have equity. And so if you do get an investor 00:12:18.990 --> 00:12:20.909 now, it's really messy to like move things around 00:12:20.909 --> 00:12:23.129 or delete chairs or like, it's a headache. So 00:12:23.129 --> 00:12:25.289 like, don't just like give out equity like candy, 00:12:25.570 --> 00:12:27.490 try and reserve it if you can. I know it's hard, 00:12:27.649 --> 00:12:29.590 but that's, that's something that I would say, 00:12:29.750 --> 00:12:32.350 because you're going to want that when you actually 00:12:32.350 --> 00:12:34.700 do get an investor or You know, you might want 00:12:34.700 --> 00:12:36.460 that as you grow, you know, just depends, but 00:12:36.460 --> 00:12:38.860 don't share that out as much as you can. And 00:12:38.860 --> 00:12:41.620 then I would say, so hiring and equity, and then 00:12:41.620 --> 00:12:44.419 I would say marketing. So I've got 20 years experience 00:12:44.419 --> 00:12:46.820 in marketing and AI is changing a lot of things. 00:12:47.139 --> 00:12:49.639 You do not need, and this is probably like one 00:12:49.639 --> 00:12:51.320 of those things where I'm going to be like, Ricardo, 00:12:51.480 --> 00:12:54.220 edit this out, but you do not need a fancy website. 00:12:54.620 --> 00:12:57.019 Okay. Like everybody's spending like 60 plus 00:12:57.019 --> 00:13:00.070 thousand dollars on these. websites and these 00:13:00.070 --> 00:13:02.830 rebrands. And that is just outrageous. Like, 00:13:02.830 --> 00:13:05.809 especially if you were B2B and there's no e -commerce 00:13:05.809 --> 00:13:08.090 element, you just need to have a nice, clean 00:13:08.090 --> 00:13:10.710 looking website that honestly, AI could probably 00:13:10.710 --> 00:13:13.850 build for you, you know, to some degree, right? 00:13:13.850 --> 00:13:15.929 Maybe with some strategies, some marketers help, 00:13:15.929 --> 00:13:18.309 but like, hey, it doesn't need to be a huge lift. 00:13:18.529 --> 00:13:21.309 You just need to not be sketchy. So like if you 00:13:21.309 --> 00:13:22.669 don't have a web presence, people are like, oh, 00:13:22.669 --> 00:13:24.710 are they real? But if it's like fancy with all 00:13:24.710 --> 00:13:26.049 the bells and whistles, it doesn't make a difference. 00:13:26.090 --> 00:13:28.309 You just need to tell your story cleanly. and 00:13:28.309 --> 00:13:29.870 be able to capture people's attention. That's 00:13:29.870 --> 00:13:31.850 it. And so if you're doing more than that and 00:13:31.850 --> 00:13:33.629 you're spending more on that, then that's not 00:13:33.629 --> 00:13:36.809 a good thing. And I say the third thing for startups 00:13:36.809 --> 00:13:39.490 is making sure that business development and 00:13:39.490 --> 00:13:41.289 networking is the number one thing that you're 00:13:41.289 --> 00:13:43.470 doing outside of product development. Because 00:13:43.470 --> 00:13:45.309 you don't want to... That's what fundraising 00:13:45.309 --> 00:13:47.490 is. It's networking. You're not just going to 00:13:47.490 --> 00:13:49.110 go to somebody cold and be like, hey, give me 00:13:49.110 --> 00:13:51.629 money. You want to build those relationships 00:13:51.629 --> 00:13:53.710 over the course of even six or nine months so 00:13:53.710 --> 00:13:56.269 that then when you do go to fundraise, you have 00:13:56.269 --> 00:13:58.669 warm friendlies who are like, hey, Yeah, I want 00:13:58.669 --> 00:13:59.950 to give you money. I've been watching your journey. 00:13:59.990 --> 00:14:02.610 This is awesome. And it's not hard. So I think 00:14:02.610 --> 00:14:04.590 that or customers, right? VCs or customers, it's 00:14:04.590 --> 00:14:06.330 the same thing. You're building that runway. 00:14:06.769 --> 00:14:08.809 And so I would say BizDev needs to be number 00:14:08.809 --> 00:14:10.909 one on your list. And that's hard for some engineers, 00:14:11.009 --> 00:14:13.250 right? We work with a lot of really technical 00:14:13.250 --> 00:14:15.230 folks. And so it's like putting yourself out 00:14:15.230 --> 00:14:17.750 there and having conversations is scary, but 00:14:17.750 --> 00:14:20.289 it gets easier. That was a long answer. I hope 00:14:20.289 --> 00:14:23.090 that was okay. I'm just running like, you mentioned 00:14:23.090 --> 00:14:24.950 a lot of networking and stuff like that. So what's 00:14:24.950 --> 00:14:27.590 the best way for a first time follower? to actually 00:14:27.590 --> 00:14:30.549 go out and raise some investment. Is there any 00:14:30.549 --> 00:14:34.509 magic tweak that you can do? I mean, to fundraise? 00:14:35.370 --> 00:14:38.289 I would say... First time you fundraise, you 00:14:38.289 --> 00:14:40.250 don't know much about the game. What's the best 00:14:40.250 --> 00:14:43.690 strategy? Yeah. Well, I would say focus on your 00:14:43.690 --> 00:14:47.570 personal brand. So focus on being an authority 00:14:47.570 --> 00:14:49.590 in your space, putting content out on LinkedIn, 00:14:50.309 --> 00:14:52.750 connecting to people on LinkedIn, and just starting 00:14:52.750 --> 00:14:54.730 to have those conversations. I would say that's 00:14:54.730 --> 00:14:56.149 first and foremost, because what's the first 00:14:56.149 --> 00:14:58.669 thing? a VC is going to do. They're going to 00:14:58.669 --> 00:14:59.629 go and they're going to look at you. They're 00:14:59.629 --> 00:15:01.169 going to see what was this person because their 00:15:01.169 --> 00:15:03.450 greatest risk is the founder. It's their greatest 00:15:03.450 --> 00:15:04.909 investment and their greatest risk. They're not 00:15:04.909 --> 00:15:06.590 investing in the product. They're investing in 00:15:06.590 --> 00:15:09.590 you to make the product happen. Right. And so 00:15:09.590 --> 00:15:10.750 it's like they're going to go and check you out. 00:15:10.769 --> 00:15:13.450 So make sure that that is in a good place would 00:15:13.450 --> 00:15:15.970 be my number one piece of advice. And then the 00:15:15.970 --> 00:15:18.289 second the second one is join as many networking 00:15:18.289 --> 00:15:21.019 groups as you can. So you have an amazing summit 00:15:21.019 --> 00:15:23.779 coming up the startup summit, right? Go to things 00:15:23.779 --> 00:15:26.559 like that Go to things like that and meet people 00:15:26.559 --> 00:15:29.019 and talk to people and I will say it's not always 00:15:29.019 --> 00:15:31.059 the people on stage that you want to talk to 00:15:31.059 --> 00:15:33.500 Talk to the people in the back of the room, right? 00:15:33.559 --> 00:15:35.720 Like those are the people that the lurkers because 00:15:35.720 --> 00:15:37.799 that's actually usually the people that are like 00:15:37.799 --> 00:15:39.740 The VCs or the funders and they're like kind 00:15:39.740 --> 00:15:41.799 of in the back They're getting a drink like just 00:15:41.799 --> 00:15:44.000 be a person I guess and like have a conversation 00:15:44.000 --> 00:15:45.720 don't go up to them and kind of pitch slop them 00:15:45.720 --> 00:15:47.620 and be like hey I have this startup like have 00:15:47.620 --> 00:15:49.679 a conversation, you know, learn about them a 00:15:49.679 --> 00:15:51.360 little bit because then in the follow -up you 00:15:51.360 --> 00:15:52.960 can say, Hey, you know what, thanks for talking 00:15:52.960 --> 00:15:55.120 about, you know, your daughter's horseback riding 00:15:55.120 --> 00:15:56.799 lessons. I'm interested in doing blah, blah, 00:15:56.820 --> 00:15:58.580 blah. Like that's an example, but like you be 00:15:58.580 --> 00:16:01.080 a person first. And I think that's how you build 00:16:01.080 --> 00:16:03.700 relationships and network, but go to those events, 00:16:04.259 --> 00:16:06.019 go to those things, find people like yourself 00:16:06.019 --> 00:16:09.379 who are like a networker on steroids because 00:16:09.379 --> 00:16:11.960 you know everybody and like figure out how you 00:16:11.960 --> 00:16:14.509 can help them. Like, Hey, always bring a bottle 00:16:14.509 --> 00:16:16.289 of wine to the party, right? Like, how can I 00:16:16.289 --> 00:16:18.470 help you? Don't come with an ask. I think that 00:16:18.470 --> 00:16:21.250 would be what I would say. Interesting. And, 00:16:21.370 --> 00:16:24.970 you know, when you're, you know, in your own 00:16:24.970 --> 00:16:26.570 career and your own experience, when you have 00:16:26.570 --> 00:16:29.190 like really down moments, what made you push 00:16:29.190 --> 00:16:30.830 forward? Like, what would you say to yourself 00:16:30.830 --> 00:16:32.730 when you're having a really bad moment? Because 00:16:32.730 --> 00:16:34.309 I think a lot of startups kind of run into the 00:16:34.309 --> 00:16:36.289 synonyms quite often, which is where you think 00:16:36.289 --> 00:16:38.149 everything's going well, and then it's like, 00:16:38.149 --> 00:16:39.649 you know, like a roller coaster. You just have 00:16:39.649 --> 00:16:42.539 like a really Really crappy days. I actually 00:16:42.539 --> 00:16:44.220 had that last week. Like I had a really great 00:16:44.220 --> 00:16:46.179 day and then like a really bad like day. And 00:16:46.179 --> 00:16:48.320 it was just like one of my, one of my interviews 00:16:48.320 --> 00:16:50.860 one time said being a founder is like barbelling 00:16:50.860 --> 00:16:53.559 euphoria and depression. And you're like, depends 00:16:53.559 --> 00:16:57.159 on the day. Like, and it's so real. I don't know. 00:16:57.220 --> 00:16:59.139 I think for me personally, I think it depends 00:16:59.139 --> 00:17:00.899 on every person. But for me, when I have really 00:17:00.899 --> 00:17:03.100 hard days, like I just reconnect with why I'm 00:17:03.100 --> 00:17:06.180 doing it. And it's usually my kids or I go outside 00:17:06.180 --> 00:17:08.960 and I know touch grass is really like overstated, 00:17:09.099 --> 00:17:11.900 but like. Go do something like fun outside and 00:17:11.900 --> 00:17:13.539 get some sunshine because it really does make 00:17:13.539 --> 00:17:15.220 you feel better. Like I went outside and picked 00:17:15.220 --> 00:17:16.740 strawberries in our garden and I was like, Oh, 00:17:16.759 --> 00:17:18.759 I'm feeling pretty good. You know, and, and it 00:17:18.759 --> 00:17:20.380 just puts things in perspective. Like if you 00:17:20.380 --> 00:17:22.720 can get away from your screens, that helps too. 00:17:22.799 --> 00:17:25.400 I feel like I can be more creative when I'm not 00:17:25.400 --> 00:17:28.769 like in front of a camera or. talking to people 00:17:28.769 --> 00:17:30.210 all day, every day, like when you're actually 00:17:30.210 --> 00:17:32.049 just going out and being, it's like when some 00:17:32.049 --> 00:17:34.410 of the good ideas happen. So give yourself space 00:17:34.410 --> 00:17:36.609 for that because you might find solutions there. 00:17:36.829 --> 00:17:38.710 Yeah, very true. But I think it's hard. I've 00:17:38.710 --> 00:17:39.950 talked to a lot of entrepreneurs and they all 00:17:39.950 --> 00:17:41.730 say the same thing. Oh, yeah, I burned out in 00:17:41.730 --> 00:17:43.369 the first three months or the first six months 00:17:43.369 --> 00:17:45.109 and that was it. And I was super depressed and 00:17:45.109 --> 00:17:47.170 then I couldn't manage everything. And yeah, 00:17:47.170 --> 00:17:50.450 I get that a lot. And the more like the more 00:17:50.450 --> 00:17:52.609 experience they get and like people who have 00:17:52.609 --> 00:17:55.069 done that in the past so they exit multiple times, 00:17:55.269 --> 00:17:57.299 they always say the same thing. you know, take 00:17:57.299 --> 00:18:00.920 some time off, go for a run, do some exercise 00:18:00.920 --> 00:18:02.660 or whatever, just makes you feel so much better. 00:18:02.700 --> 00:18:04.980 But it's hard to balance it, isn't it? It is. 00:18:05.240 --> 00:18:06.579 Well, and that's why I think a lot of people 00:18:06.579 --> 00:18:08.900 pick funding as a kind of a stress relief, like, 00:18:08.940 --> 00:18:10.859 okay, we got funding, you know, now that'll solve 00:18:10.859 --> 00:18:13.039 everything. But actually, it's not. Sometimes 00:18:13.039 --> 00:18:14.900 that compounds it because now you have all this 00:18:14.900 --> 00:18:16.799 money you have to take care of, and you have 00:18:16.799 --> 00:18:18.259 to steward it well, and you have people who you 00:18:18.259 --> 00:18:20.420 have to answer to now, and you have potentially 00:18:20.420 --> 00:18:22.380 more hires with that money. So it's like actually 00:18:22.380 --> 00:18:25.630 like If the core of what you're doing isn't right, 00:18:25.849 --> 00:18:27.190 then money is actually going to make it worse. 00:18:27.289 --> 00:18:29.109 But everyone thinks if I can get to funding, 00:18:29.549 --> 00:18:31.930 I can take a break. It's like, oh gosh, I actually 00:18:31.930 --> 00:18:33.390 read this on LinkedIn. So I don't remember who 00:18:33.390 --> 00:18:35.750 this was, so I can't give them credit, but it's 00:18:35.750 --> 00:18:37.990 not from me. They said that getting funding is 00:18:37.990 --> 00:18:39.950 actually the starter's pistol. Like that's when 00:18:39.950 --> 00:18:41.829 the race starts. And I was like, I really liked 00:18:41.829 --> 00:18:52.740 that analogy because it's true. to manage your 00:18:52.740 --> 00:18:54.160 relationship with investors and you see like, 00:18:54.319 --> 00:18:56.019 okay, I'm no CEO, I need to manage everything. 00:18:56.240 --> 00:18:58.039 It gets pretty crazy pretty quickly, I guess. 00:18:58.519 --> 00:19:00.559 Well, yes, and delegating and you want to do 00:19:00.559 --> 00:19:02.099 everything yourself, it's your baby, but it's 00:19:02.099 --> 00:19:04.460 like you need to trust your team and all that 00:19:04.460 --> 00:19:06.619 stuff. We've seen it on LinkedIn and people talk 00:19:06.619 --> 00:19:08.640 about it a lot, but it's really hard to do it 00:19:08.640 --> 00:19:11.200 in practice. Like, okay, I'm going to let that 00:19:11.200 --> 00:19:13.359 go, but kind of not. I'm still going to watch 00:19:13.359 --> 00:19:16.559 from over here and see how it's going. Yeah, 00:19:16.700 --> 00:19:19.000 delegating is incredibly hard. That is probably 00:19:19.000 --> 00:19:20.819 one of the hardest things you can do. I think 00:19:20.819 --> 00:19:23.160 so. Trust people enough so they can deliver what 00:19:23.160 --> 00:19:25.519 they need to deliver, but then give them a space 00:19:25.519 --> 00:19:27.880 when they do make mistakes to tell them, you 00:19:27.880 --> 00:19:30.000 know what, this is okay. You pushed forward, 00:19:30.140 --> 00:19:31.819 not in the right direction. We still pushed forward 00:19:31.819 --> 00:19:34.460 a little bit. So we're just going to do a little 00:19:34.460 --> 00:19:38.460 course correction. Yeah, absolutely. Molly, what's 00:19:38.460 --> 00:19:40.599 the best book you've read on entrepreneurship? 00:19:41.099 --> 00:19:43.680 The best book? Or the one you always recommend 00:19:43.680 --> 00:19:47.089 to people? Oh gosh. You know, I don't know that 00:19:47.089 --> 00:19:49.769 I have one off the top that's like really a standout. 00:19:49.789 --> 00:19:52.269 I have a bunch I want to read. And I think the 00:19:52.269 --> 00:19:54.170 one on my list that I'm really most excited to 00:19:54.170 --> 00:19:57.430 read would be Nikola Tesla's biography, autobiography. 00:19:57.710 --> 00:19:59.089 That one's really interesting. It's a collection 00:19:59.089 --> 00:20:01.130 of all of his letters and like how he invented 00:20:01.130 --> 00:20:02.930 and what that looks like. I'm, I'm always really 00:20:02.930 --> 00:20:05.069 interested in like the creative processes that 00:20:05.069 --> 00:20:07.990 other people have, like to get to places. And 00:20:07.990 --> 00:20:10.970 so that'd probably be, I think some of the, some 00:20:10.970 --> 00:20:13.390 of the things that, that Outside of business 00:20:13.390 --> 00:20:14.930 books like okay, I'm reading I feel like I'm 00:20:14.930 --> 00:20:17.049 in school, which they're very valuable But sometimes 00:20:17.049 --> 00:20:20.430 I think the other kind of inputs of expression 00:20:20.430 --> 00:20:22.390 are really interesting to to grow from a business 00:20:22.390 --> 00:20:24.630 perspective So thinking about like other people's 00:20:24.630 --> 00:20:27.450 journeys thinking about podcasts that you really 00:20:27.450 --> 00:20:29.470 like to listen to maybe this one But just like, 00:20:29.589 --> 00:20:31.289 you know different things like that. I think 00:20:31.289 --> 00:20:34.730 is are also like really impactful. So Just depends 00:20:34.730 --> 00:20:43.630 different mediums I know you'll be a guest on 00:20:43.630 --> 00:20:45.230 it too. So it's good. So it's like kind of a 00:20:45.230 --> 00:20:47.990 cross podcasting, but no, it's for founders. 00:20:48.549 --> 00:20:50.930 So it's called MaxQ. Again, if you're in the 00:20:50.930 --> 00:20:52.789 aerospace industry, you know, MaxQ is the point 00:20:52.789 --> 00:20:55.430 at which our rocket is safely into orbit. So 00:20:55.430 --> 00:20:57.750 the idea was like, Hey, get your startup safely 00:20:57.750 --> 00:21:00.450 into orbit. So kind of cheesy, but it's the name 00:21:00.450 --> 00:21:02.730 and it's stuck. So we can't change it now. So, 00:21:02.869 --> 00:21:06.220 but the MaxQ. is for founders and it's about 00:21:06.220 --> 00:21:08.160 their journeys, their failures and successes. 00:21:08.680 --> 00:21:10.599 And the whole intention is really just to connect 00:21:10.599 --> 00:21:13.160 other founders with each other. Because, like 00:21:13.160 --> 00:21:15.519 you said, it can be very lonely. And how do you 00:21:15.519 --> 00:21:17.960 network? How do I get started? And so providing 00:21:17.960 --> 00:21:20.519 them with a place to just make it easy to connect 00:21:20.519 --> 00:21:22.660 with one another is kind of what we're about. 00:21:23.000 --> 00:21:25.759 In managing, you must be a lot of very, very 00:21:25.759 --> 00:21:28.559 interesting people. Because people building stuff 00:21:28.559 --> 00:21:30.960 in the aerospace industry overall, they need 00:21:30.960 --> 00:21:33.400 to be very ambitious, very crazy. But at the 00:21:33.400 --> 00:21:34.880 same time, very successful in delivering what 00:21:34.880 --> 00:21:36.920 they promise. I mean, yes, there are a lot of 00:21:36.920 --> 00:21:39.279 folks. And it's not just aerospace either. It's 00:21:39.279 --> 00:21:42.359 some really cool things in medtech and in additive 00:21:42.359 --> 00:21:45.140 materials and manufacturing. And there's so much 00:21:45.140 --> 00:21:47.559 going on, you know, I will say in the space industry 00:21:47.559 --> 00:21:50.180 right now and the advanced air mobility space. 00:21:50.180 --> 00:21:53.400 So like the flying cars and taxis and I mean, 00:21:53.480 --> 00:21:55.619 just really cool. It's fun to see people. I think 00:21:55.619 --> 00:21:58.200 the thing that inspires me the most is that every 00:21:58.200 --> 00:22:00.660 founder that I talk to in this space has like 00:22:00.660 --> 00:22:03.809 this really cool hope, this hope in humanity, 00:22:03.950 --> 00:22:06.250 this hope in the future. And it's kind of contagious, 00:22:06.269 --> 00:22:07.869 because you're like, okay, like, when you're 00:22:07.869 --> 00:22:09.170 building something like that, you're building 00:22:09.170 --> 00:22:11.529 for the long term. So like, we all believe in 00:22:11.529 --> 00:22:14.089 this vision of what humanity can look like in 00:22:14.089 --> 00:22:16.049 seven to 10 years, like, and we're on board for 00:22:16.049 --> 00:22:17.690 that, we're building for that in like a positive 00:22:17.690 --> 00:22:20.170 way, which I think is the thing I like the most 00:22:20.170 --> 00:22:22.589 is it's like we can hope in something, have a 00:22:22.589 --> 00:22:25.569 dream, a kind of a shared dream. It's good, though, 00:22:25.750 --> 00:22:27.430 I think when you talk to people like that, there's 00:22:27.430 --> 00:22:30.210 a dream, but also in order for the future to 00:22:30.210 --> 00:22:31.869 happen you need to dream about the future first 00:22:31.869 --> 00:22:33.269 right because otherwise it's not gonna happen 00:22:33.269 --> 00:22:35.529 so if you dream about something the likelihood 00:22:35.529 --> 00:22:37.150 of it happening is obviously a little higher 00:22:37.150 --> 00:22:39.250 especially when you start building towards it 00:22:39.250 --> 00:22:41.829 yes i'm just thinking like elon musk obviously 00:22:41.829 --> 00:22:44.809 a lot of bad press recently but a couple years 00:22:44.809 --> 00:22:47.250 ago when he went to NASA say hey how expensive 00:22:47.250 --> 00:22:49.309 is it to actually build a rocket and it's super 00:22:49.309 --> 00:22:51.869 costly he decided to break it down the process 00:22:51.869 --> 00:22:53.789 and say you know what i can actually do it for 00:22:53.789 --> 00:22:56.410 a lot cheaper and the reason why we have so much 00:22:56.569 --> 00:22:58.470 more satellites and so much more happening in 00:22:58.470 --> 00:23:00.390 space right now is because he just worked on 00:23:00.390 --> 00:23:02.589 the process, right? So maybe a lot more cost 00:23:02.589 --> 00:23:05.720 -effective. Yes, absolutely. Well, and Elon Musk, 00:23:05.839 --> 00:23:06.759 you know, it's one of those things where it's 00:23:06.759 --> 00:23:09.119 like, there's brilliant people, regardless of 00:23:09.119 --> 00:23:11.140 politics on either side of the aisle. And so 00:23:11.140 --> 00:23:13.779 it's like, how do you put that to the side and 00:23:13.779 --> 00:23:15.680 look at the brilliance and kind of take those 00:23:15.680 --> 00:23:17.180 pieces out? Because I think that's important 00:23:17.180 --> 00:23:19.599 for every side, you know, because I like how 00:23:19.599 --> 00:23:21.000 you said that, like you had some bad press, we 00:23:21.000 --> 00:23:22.339 only had a couple rough years, but it's like, 00:23:22.460 --> 00:23:24.960 how do we pull out the good things and like really 00:23:24.960 --> 00:23:26.259 talk about those and look at those because I 00:23:26.259 --> 00:23:29.019 think that's important. So to your point. I mean, 00:23:29.119 --> 00:23:30.740 and I love the fact that he actually put a car 00:23:30.740 --> 00:23:33.819 in space. Yeah. It's just going around. I mean, 00:23:33.819 --> 00:23:36.279 he's brilliant. Can you imagine some aliens like 00:23:36.279 --> 00:23:38.519 they find our civilization like, oh, why is there 00:23:38.519 --> 00:23:40.720 a car in space? Well, did you ever watch the 00:23:40.720 --> 00:23:43.679 Jetsons? Did you ever watch the Jetsons? Like 00:23:43.679 --> 00:23:45.400 that cartoon, okay, I might be dating myself. 00:23:45.400 --> 00:23:47.140 It was very millennial thing to do, but like, 00:23:47.160 --> 00:23:49.440 you know, the flying cars. And so I like always 00:23:49.440 --> 00:23:50.779 envisioned that that's what we would have by 00:23:50.779 --> 00:23:52.799 now. And so the fact that we don't, I'm kind 00:23:52.799 --> 00:23:56.339 of like, okay, like it's 2025. Where are the 00:23:56.339 --> 00:23:59.240 Jetsons? I was reading, I was watching a podcast 00:23:59.240 --> 00:24:02.119 today. And apparently the issue is you have another, 00:24:02.119 --> 00:24:05.099 another axle to focus on. So obviously, you know, 00:24:05.119 --> 00:24:07.960 I'm just driving back and forth. Obviously there's 00:24:07.960 --> 00:24:10.019 also a vertical one and that's where it actually 00:24:10.019 --> 00:24:12.970 becomes really really complex very quickly. Yes. 00:24:14.289 --> 00:24:17.569 Yes. Yeah. And then you could also go to the 00:24:17.569 --> 00:24:19.829 side. So adding another axis to the equation 00:24:19.829 --> 00:24:22.250 just makes it a lot more complex. If you think 00:24:22.250 --> 00:24:24.509 about aviation, you actually still follow kind 00:24:24.509 --> 00:24:27.809 of high rows in the sky, like everyone doing 00:24:27.809 --> 00:24:28.990 the same thing. I don't know. I don't think it's 00:24:28.990 --> 00:24:30.910 going to work that well. I hope it will, but 00:24:30.910 --> 00:24:32.859 I don't know. I mean, we're going to find out. 00:24:32.960 --> 00:24:34.460 I think there's a lot of really smart people 00:24:34.460 --> 00:24:36.319 who are talking about this stuff. And there's, 00:24:36.319 --> 00:24:38.019 there's a lot of really cool things that are 00:24:38.019 --> 00:24:40.299 being built. So I'm excited. Like I said, that's 00:24:40.299 --> 00:24:41.740 why I like this industry, because it's like, 00:24:41.759 --> 00:24:44.740 there's a hopefulness about it, which is refreshing. 00:24:44.839 --> 00:24:46.920 Cause I think with AI stuff, which while it's 00:24:46.920 --> 00:24:48.839 very exciting and there's a lot of cool AI things, 00:24:49.160 --> 00:24:52.339 there's kind of like some anxiety around AI and 00:24:52.339 --> 00:24:54.680 like, is it taking jobs? Is it too scary? Is 00:24:54.680 --> 00:24:56.660 it turning into the Terminator? So it's like, 00:24:56.660 --> 00:24:58.319 you know, there's kind of like that, like level 00:24:58.319 --> 00:25:00.220 of doom and gloom that's layered on top of some 00:25:00.220 --> 00:25:03.259 of that, which is. You know, not as hopeful. 00:25:04.019 --> 00:25:07.420 Yeah, I don't think AI is that bad. It is. It's 00:25:07.420 --> 00:25:09.500 going to be what we make it. It's the same thing 00:25:09.500 --> 00:25:13.059 for manufacturing to the industrial age. There 00:25:13.059 --> 00:25:14.680 were a lot of people who lost the ability to 00:25:14.680 --> 00:25:16.759 do jobs and everything started being made in 00:25:16.759 --> 00:25:19.259 factories. But at the same time, our society 00:25:19.259 --> 00:25:21.519 evolved. We started making a lot more stuff and 00:25:21.519 --> 00:25:24.140 actually advanced as a civilization. It's going 00:25:24.140 --> 00:25:25.900 to be the same thing with AI. We're going to 00:25:25.900 --> 00:25:27.960 replace all the really tiny, small jobs that... 00:25:28.009 --> 00:25:30.730 Anyone can do with AI and then we can focus on 00:25:30.730 --> 00:25:35.349 the more complex things Yeah, no, I agree. I 00:25:35.349 --> 00:25:37.430 just mean that there's so much there's a lot 00:25:37.430 --> 00:25:39.690 of anxiety about it, right? I think people are 00:25:39.690 --> 00:25:41.369 feeling that and so because there needs to be 00:25:41.369 --> 00:25:43.589 more education and like but it's going so fast 00:25:43.589 --> 00:25:45.569 How do you educate? I mean, it's like education 00:25:45.569 --> 00:25:48.309 is outdated by the time, you know You you go 00:25:48.309 --> 00:25:49.569 to talk about it because it's like something 00:25:49.569 --> 00:25:51.289 new is happening in AI now there's clones and 00:25:51.289 --> 00:25:54.410 those clones can get paid and like What's happening? 00:25:54.910 --> 00:25:56.490 I think that's actually that probably the next 00:25:56.490 --> 00:25:58.880 step which is At what time do we decide that 00:25:58.880 --> 00:26:00.900 we actually need to pay for clones, AI clones, 00:26:01.059 --> 00:26:02.779 when they're doing all the jobs for us? Do you 00:26:02.779 --> 00:26:05.019 just buy them once and then that's it? Or do 00:26:05.019 --> 00:26:07.400 we pay them a monthly wage? Well, thank you for 00:26:07.400 --> 00:26:09.660 cleaning my house, your AI clone. That's actually 00:26:09.660 --> 00:26:12.019 what... I mean, that's the thing. Can they clean 00:26:12.019 --> 00:26:13.720 a house? Can they do laundry? Because I need 00:26:13.720 --> 00:26:15.539 that in my life. I would pay for that right now. 00:26:15.579 --> 00:26:17.900 So it's like, how do we do that? That would be 00:26:17.900 --> 00:26:20.039 awesome. I think there's a couple of Japanese 00:26:20.039 --> 00:26:21.900 companies that are doing that, but if that happens, 00:26:22.019 --> 00:26:27.099 I'll be very happy. Cool. Yes, the jobs that 00:26:27.099 --> 00:26:29.859 I don't want to do, that would be perfect. Molly, 00:26:30.079 --> 00:26:32.660 as we're nearing the end of the podcast, people 00:26:32.660 --> 00:26:34.039 want to reach out to you. What's the best way 00:26:34.039 --> 00:26:36.019 for you to reach out? Oh, sure. LinkedIn. I mean, 00:26:36.019 --> 00:26:39.259 I'm probably on LinkedIn more than anything else. 00:26:39.420 --> 00:26:43.000 Email is okay too. It's molly at spring -forge 00:26:43.000 --> 00:26:45.920 .com, but I'll always connect on LinkedIn. I 00:26:45.920 --> 00:26:48.480 love to connect to people and hear their stories. 00:26:48.640 --> 00:26:52.240 And so that's a great way to reach out. Molly, 00:26:52.299 --> 00:26:54.839 thanks so much for that. Yes, thank you. It was 00:26:54.839 --> 00:26:56.619 a pleasure. This is a great podcast. I'm excited. 00:26:56.619 --> 00:26:58.420 I'm excited for all your listeners. Thank you. 00:26:58.480 --> 00:27:02.880 Thank you. All right. The podcast is sponsored 00:27:02.880 --> 00:27:06.259 by Startupsummit .io, a today event bringing 00:27:06.259 --> 00:27:09.220 together 2 ,000 founders, investors, and industry 00:27:09.220 --> 00:27:11.779 leaders from across Europe. As a thank you for 00:27:11.779 --> 00:27:14.259 being part of the podcast community, we are now 00:27:14.259 --> 00:27:17.119 offering 50 % off all tickets by using the code 00:27:17.119 --> 00:27:20.400 podcast in all capitals on the website. See you 00:27:20.400 --> 00:27:20.839 in Lisbon.