Welcome to the Innovation Conversation, a podcast
about innovators, both in business and real life.
Hosted by myself, Ricardo Rescual and Harry McCona.
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Hi, and welcome to another episode of the Innovation
Conversation. Today we are joined by Lina Gallinger.
Lina, welcome to the podcast. Ricardo, thank
you for inviting me. It's a pleasure having you
here. Lina, would you like to introduce yourself
to the audience, please? Yeah, so I'm Lina Gallagher.
I live in the United Arab Emirates in Dubai for
the last 12 years. I have a number of companies.
One is e -commerce consultancy, where we help
businesses to basically start selling online
from technology to operations to marketing. It's
called Emers Consulting. I have a paid media
agency called Enkindle Digital, where we run
a traditional Google method, Snapchat, LinkedIn
ads in both languages. So Arabic and English,
which is. Pretty unique. I have an e -commerce
training academy, which is actually globally,
and majority of the clients are actually Europeans,
called EcomWave, where we teach you, predominantly
founders, startup owners that want to do e -commerce
and don't... Maybe know where to start. I don't
know how to scale and grow. You can imagine these
are like digital courses. I have a book called
Winning in a Platform Economy in the GCC. So
it's also talks about how do you compete with
T -machines and the rest of the platforms globally
when you are launching e -commerce brand. And
like yourself, like Ricardo, I have a podcast
called Commerce Talks, where we talk about e
-commerce. It's all around e -commerce and all
around working from founders who haven't even
started to actually very large enterprises that
are going through growth challenges, profitability
challenges, expansion to another country challenges,
so you name it. So very honored to be here and
I'm sure we'll have a great conversation. Thank
you. It's a pleasure having you here. Lina, how
did you get started with all this? Because there's
quite a lot of stuff that you actually do. So
how did you move from the UK to Dubai? I mean,
how was that transition? How do you even get
started doing all these things? So I'm actually
an entrepreneur since 13. I started my entrepreneurial
journey very young as a a website developer,
and I used to create like what used to, now it's
a WordPress, but before that HTML traditional
websites, you know, for the listeners, I'm 37.
So at that point we still had, I would develop
your website, like coffee shop, mini restaurant,
you know, like any website, right? So you have
the, just at least a landing page. And after
that, you know, I would go to your, on the same
street to your neighbor and say, okay, would
you like to advertise on the restaurant shop,
on the coffee shop? And I will do those annoying
banners. Remember when we used to go on some
website and they're like these banners pop up
into your face. So then I would, I was part of
the, let's say banner revolution where all these
AOL, Yahoo and, and so on and so forth before
the social media even was invented. At 18, I
moved to Liverpool to study e -business. It was
the first university globally that actually did
e -commerce, like as a university degree. So
I went through this whole bubble bus and you
name it. Three years in uni, very, very challenging,
but actually I was one of those students who
left university and said, OMG, I actually learned
a lot. I am 22 or 21 actually. I'm 21 and I...
actually can run e -commerce business, or at
least I know all the elements, but maybe no practical
experience in all of this. But as you can see,
I'm quite chatty. So then what do you do next?
World's perception is that you go into the job.
So I was one of the fortunate ones that I got
a graduate scheme at Deloitte Consulting London.
I still think, I know it's on the record, it's
one of the best consultancies in the world. The
reason I sit today in Dubai, is because the mentors
I had there, the partners I worked for. Was it
hell on earth? Yes, it was hard work. It was
hustle every day. It was long hours. And everything
that you read in the press, it was the case,
okay? London city pressure, competitive, you
name it. But I wouldn't change anything. You
know, me and my husband joke, you know, even
these days, we're like, even if our kids, we
have two kids. Even if our kids want to do art,
be artists, go into the pro bono type of work,
they are having internship at one of the big
fours because it really teaches you not just
business. It teaches you how to structure your
day, how to structure your life, how to be motivated,
driven. You understand what like mentorship is.
You really like, you are in a very big pond,
small fish, but you are surrounded by the smartest
on the smartest on earth. Honestly. wouldn't
change it for the world. So when I was working
for Deloitte, I was part of their Deloitte digital
founding team, in terms of when e -commerce was
just coming up. I worked on all these big projects,
large brands globally, starting their e -commerce
journeys. And then opportunity came out for my
husband in the Middle East. And by that time,
it was you either move with him or you end relationships.
We were together by that time, seven years. As
much as my husband moved to London for my job,
it was my turn to move to the Middle East for
him. So we moved and let me tell you, I moved
to Deloitte, but I quickly realized that maybe
I'm missing Deloitte London too much. You know,
I tried to do projects, maybe with Deloitte London
and so on and so forth. If you asked me before
the move, would I ever left the company? The
answer was no, no way. I was going to go for
a partnership. Even if you threw money at me,
entrepreneurial journey, I would have never,
I would have said no. I was loving the life that
much in that career. But things changed in the
Middle East. I just decided that I saw too big
of the opportunity that e -commerce did not exist
here. Like nobody had e -commerce, no large brands
had e -commerce. It was too big of an opportunity
to. be in the job. So I took a risk and I started
at 2012, 2012, 2012. So large enterprises had
no e -commerce, you know, like if in the UK Tesco,
John Lewis, like all these Chanel, Dior's, Fashion,
Zara, you know, they were all online. In Dubai
at that point, everything was offline. So you
had a lot of famous brands, but because they
were franchised, you know, from the brand to
the Middle East. the franchisees were not investing
in e -commerce. Some of them did not want to
invest. Others did not have skillset. Others
were like, oh, we're doing so well on offline.
Why would you go online? So I took a hit. I left
a very well paid job, very big brand. I decided
that I'm going to start my mini consultancy,
if you like, and maybe one woman show and try
to convince. First of all, my goal was not to
make money like I'm dreaming of being Jeff Bezos,
because by that time I've seen a lot in consulting
that Jeff Bezos is not born overnight, okay?
I saw that it needs work ethic and all this.
So it wasn't like, oh, I'm tomorrow going to
wake up with millions because I started, I was
the first to start e -commerce consultancy. But
I knew that they are looking for the skill set
that I had it. And I knew it will be hard work,
but my vision was a lot bigger. I was like, imagine
telling someone you played a key role on digitizing
the country. Where else in the world I can say
that I'm working on all these green projects.
In London, whether anywhere in Europe, I'm Lithuanian.
So anywhere in Europe, you would be like either
improving e -commerce, maybe re -platforming.
You know, so you could bring a lot of new things,
but that's not... Oh, I'm starting it. Like,
I didn't know anyone at that point that would
say, I started e -commerce for, you know, carafo.
People are like, how old are you? You know what
I mean? So, and I had this opportunity here.
So I, it took, look, it wasn't easy, you know,
it was a lot of knocking on the door. So you
can imagine, blonde, female, doesn't speak the
language, you know, only English. No, no connections
of sorts of like, I know such and such and can
get you into such and such. So a lot of knocking
the door and honestly, not giving up, you know,
and I think I learned that at Deloitte, you know,
at Deloitte, every project was like a new company.
You had to build relationships with clients.
You had to reset your value. You had to win the
deal with a partner. So I was from the very younger,
from the age of 21, taught to never give up.
And like, just because they said no, does not
mean that you stop knocking the next door. So
I was kind of like constantly knocking, constantly
sending messages. I went everything. I offered
work for free. I offered an opportunity to call.
I said, I will take all the risk. Anything you
can possibly think of, I risked it to do it.
And I'm glad I did, you know, because if you
are not a fraud and you know what you can do
with your two hands, this region is amazing because
It's really like they love, you know, like they
present you a lot of opportunities. You just
need to grab it. But one thing you need to know
that you need to be able to deliver with your
two hands. So, you know, like if, if in maybe
Western world, we would be like, okay, it's me.
And then I will get the team of five, of 20,
of a hundred. I do ace Ricardo does B and we
together do something over here. No, like here.
You can succeed, but you can't expect from anyone
anything, right? They give you very open, very
openly invite you. They're willing to pay for
you for your knowledge, but they will ask you
very clearly. What do you know? Not what someone
else is like, you know, so like, you know, if
you're just sales guy selling it, but they will
be like, but what do you, Ricardo, know? So if
I put you in this job just by yourself, what
are you able to do? And I was fortunate enough
that I learned, I have wide a wide skill set
in this e -commerce. So it's very specific, but
across in industry, technical, operational, marketing,
product, you know, in e -commerce. I could advise
on any angle. So if my project on tech is late,
I can go for the project on operations or marketing,
you know, like try to get secondary income, like,
you know, from the two projects. I can hire people
across different lines of business because I
understand what they should be presenting as
a skill set. So basically I ended up here for
love, but I'm never leaving again. I think this
is the best country in the world to live. Nice.
And what drove you? I mean, what's that fire
burning within? What does it keep on saying to
you? Because it's some really rough pictures,
right? Yeah. So look, it's like any entrepreneurial
journey, I would say globally, whichever country
you're based in, you need to be a good hustler,
I would say first. Secondly, I think recruitment
is a second challenge that I personally struggled
to kind of my expectations was from everyone
that they would be me. And I think just that
understanding in your twenties that Actually,
for some people, this is just a job, Lina. And
reminding to yourself as a founder that, listen,
like Ricardo maybe is not willing to give up
his life for this company, you know? It was a
learning curve for sure. But coming back to your
question like what drove me, even up to today,
you know, maybe I don't need to work so hard,
but I still work pretty incredibly long hours.
I love e -commerce. I love, you know, when people,
when, you know, when they make that sale, I celebrate
with them, like as much as it's my own business.
So for me, one thing is like, I love the variety.
So I think, you know, getting into one job and
just doing that job is not for me as my personality.
So doing multiple things in one day drove me
as of like to keep going, you know, cause Maybe
one meeting is bad, but the next one is good,
you know? So it's like the balance out the bad
and a good day. Secondly, that fire in the people's
eyes, whenever they see e -commerce, the first
sale, the growth, when they see profitability,
even up to today, no clients tell me like, for
some reason it feels like, Lena, you are more
excited about this than we are. You know, sometimes,
you know, because I'm genuinely, genuinely like
really, like, I love what I do and I really,
really care. So. I feel like I have a lot of
my own, a number of my own businesses, you know,
because I live the challenges through, through
those companies. So that always, even up to today,
it really drives me, you know, like that kind
of motivates me in terms of getting these clients
successful, making them money online, proving
them wrong. You know, let's say some of them
said, I don't believe in e -commerce and you
know, like me proving them wrong. And then they're
like. Oh, sorry, Lina. I wish I started earlier.
We should have started earlier. What's next?
What's next? So that's second. The third thing
I would say I am, which is maybe kind of proves
that I am entrepreneur at heart. E -commerce
is a very, very changing industry, right? So
like what worked yesterday is not going to work
today. Even if you look at meta ads, you know,
Zuckerberg will come up, say something new and
have the whole strategy falls through. Finished.
Like you have to be... Now, you know, Trump came
out with tariffs, all the clients calling in
one second. What are we going to do on the production?
You know, if we are selling in the US. Thirdly,
COVID hits, you know, I was in labor. I'm on
my watch, you know, and the doctor looks at me,
what are you doing? And I'm like, the world is
stopping. E -commerce is the only thing that
might could be doing it. And then the doctor
looks at my husband. My husband's like, look,
I'm a spectator here. I can't say anything to
her. This is her babies. and all the warehouses
stores are closing, e -commerce is their only
revenue source and they are obviously not ready
for this event, right? So then all the clients
are like, Lina, we know you have a few days off
for your maternity, but I was like, well, no,
I'm actually in labor now, but yeah, what's the
problem? So it's constantly changing it in a
sense. And for my personality, it really suits
this change. I read a lot. I listen a lot. I
learn from my stakes. I analyze the data of the
clients, even if it would not be in my scope.
Every single week, I look at my clients' dashboards.
You know, like we all talk data, data, data,
but so many of us don't even do anything with
that data, right? So I am that person that would
always look and be like, uh, I think it shows
this guys. Like I would call Ricardo, did you
check Warrah House A? And they're like, Lena,
this has nothing to do with you. I was like,
yeah, but. Tomorrow, if we don't fix this, tomorrow
it will affect e -commerce sales. I'm always
trying to stick to them, trying to keep one step
ahead and e -commerce is a constantly evolving
thing. Now, for example, I'm doing incredible
things with AI. Who knew? You told me two years
ago that I will be replacing so many things with
this whole AI revolution. I would have never
even dreamt it because I can tell you two years
ago, I wasn't even Googling it, like what we
can do with AI, you know? And now, you know,
like so many of my processes, like AI driven
and unfortunately, not every client of mine can
keep up with it. So, you know, they kind of look
at me to bring that into the, into the sort of,
first of all, awareness. Secondly, maybe make
it happen for them. So, and I love it, you know,
so it keeps me super busy. Super active and constantly
learning, you know, and I feel like only by learning
you kind of this is how you know, you asked me
how many different companies only by constantly
learning, you know, you can kind of come up with
all these additional ideas because I don't just
sit them like, okay, what's the next company
I should start with? No, like it's it's always
starts quite naturally from from this constant
education, constant learning, constantly staying
curious, I would say. And what happened first?
Was it the book or the podcast? So You're growing,
you're super successful. The podcast. Okay. And
how did it came about? So the podcast, this is
where I would say also when entrepreneur meets
entrepreneur. So you might, you might see like,
I have this podcast with a guy called Alexander
Graf. He is a very, very successful e -commerce
entrepreneur in Europe, a German guy. And basically.
runs an empire, like I don't know, like he has
2000, whatever, like quite a large organization.
And I knew a lot of people from his team because
they are all selling SaaS solutions for the e
-commerce fans. So if you want to enter the Middle
East in e -commerce and most of the vendors would
probably call me, invite me for the meeting first,
because they know that they kind of know the
influence, you know, I would have in the region.
And three years, I met a number of his teams,
a number of sales guys. And we only talk technology
and I said, this and this, whatever. And then
one year in one conference, he sees me running
through his stand because I was doing the, I
was moderating a couple of sessions and it was
a shortcut through his stand, through his SaaS
solution stand. I'm running, he jumps in front
of me. He's like, are you Lina? I was like, yeah,
who are you? And he's like, Alex, I have never
met the guy. He's like, do you have a podcast?
I was like, no, but I said, You will not, you
know, this is like, you know, this is our conversation.
I said, but if I would tell you now that I've
been thinking about it, you will say I'm just
using blah, blah, you know, no conversation.
So I said, let me open you my life to -do list,
you know, cause I am a consultant. I have a to
-do list for everything. So imagine in front
of his eyes, I open, it says Lina's life to -do
list, like in life, you know, I need to achieve
this. And number one, it says podcast. I said,
so see, I'm not telling you this just to keep
the conversation going. I said. I have been thinking
for a while and I said, I have loads of speakers
that would love to come. I want to share the
Middle East, the Middle East sort of like take
about e -commerce globally. I think a lot of
brands would benefit globally about it. And because
it's very hard to find information on Google
about the Middle East, but I think on my podcast,
people would open up, you know, because I work
with them. I understand. And then imagine he
says to me, okay, on Monday, we have a podcast.
I said, Like, I don't know anything about the
guy. We exchanged LinkedIn messages. And then
I only discovered that he's quite a successful
founder, quite a big deal in Europe and the US.
And I said to him, wow, and that's what makes
people entrepreneurs. I said, imagine how many
times I met your team. Nobody told you about
me and no one told me about you. This is what
you can't take from the entrepreneur, you know,
like doesn't matter how many people you have.
And I said, you see, you just see opportunity.
And as, and we clicked and we clicked so good,
you know, like I laugh and was like, Oh, you're
a king of, of e -commerce in Europe. I'm the
queen of e -commerce in the Middle East, but
we don't have to do a podcast. We don't have
to write the book, but you know, we have plenty
of things to do, you know, than writing a book
together. Do you know what I mean? Or doing a
podcast together, but we both believe in the
bigger thing. We like. No one is sharing the
knowledge. No one is talking how it is. No one
is telling these founders that e -commerce is
not easy. Why no one is doing it? And both of
us believe that, stop whinging. I hate when my
team comes and says, problem, problem, problem.
What can we do? Maybe it's not in our scope,
but at least we should try to do it because otherwise
whinging is not going to change anyone, not going
to change client, not going to change us. Alex
is very similar to me. And we were like, I told
him, like, during one of our real trips, you
know, for breakfast, we are just having a hotel
breakfast. And I said, you know what, my 2020,
this was 2023, maybe 2024, 2024, actually, I
said, Oh, my 2023 November, I tell them, you
know, my 2024 goal is to write the book. I actually
wrote half of the book. I said, you want to read
it? You know, like, because I respect the person
that sort of like, level, you know, that I would
show him my draft. And then he's like, wow, you
know, like he's like, it's a good, it's, it's,
it's very good. And he's like, you know, I'm
writing a book, a similarly about Europe, Europe's,
you know, like the Western world e -commerce.
And we were like, Oh my gosh, should we just
combine what happened in the West to what's happening
in the Middle East? Your take the West, my take
the Middle East. And I said like, so for readers
in the Middle East, they will learn from the
Western world examples. And for the Western world
examples that are all trying to come into Dubai
and Saudi and whatever else, we can show it like
how it actually works, what to be careful of.
You know, it's definitely not fiction book. You
know, it's very like business book, let's say.
But we clicked like house on fire. And, you know,
I always say to him, I'm like, listen, you give
me a call. Like I clear my calendar. I fly anywhere
in the world. We do keynotes because I first
of all love, you know, like how we have a good
dynamics on e -commerce. I find it very interesting
chat. We are first of all friends and I think
in business is very important. We're first of
all friends. So then every challenge that we
come across, like, believe me, writing a book
from two different countries and on something
like, you know, it's not easy, you know, and
we both have very different work styles. And,
you know, I'm very like a document is document
that, you know, like consultant and he's more,
he's been entrepreneur all his life. So. He's
like, no, it's fine. We'll leave it to them.
I was like, no, I have to finalize this chapter.
I need to rewrite. He's like, Lina, stop rewriting
it. We will come back if you don't like it. I
was like, no, I have to rewrite again. And he's
like, okay, well, if we keep rewriting, rewriting,
maybe we'll never finish. But these challenges
are never challenges because I think, first of
all, I always think I respect him. I find him
good as a friend, so he doesn't annoy me in any
shape or form. when we come to challenges, we
are focusing on the challenge, this challenge
rather than, you know, kind of like what's wrong
else in the business, you know, and it works
for me quite well on a number of ventures that
I've been involved in as a founder. And do you
think it's easier to open a business in the Middle
East than it is in Europe, for example, from
your experience? 100 % yes. So to open it, this
country is is probably, you know, if any of your
listeners read anything about in the news about
the Middle East, you can pretty much have a business
in 24 hours here. It's very this economy. So
if you read anything and I'm like, I am amazed,
to be honest, amazed. You can do everything from
your phone, sitting, you can have trade license,
submit your Emirates ID. It's so, so simple.
Okay? It's simple. So you can have it very quickly.
It's when, for example, Trump started with tariffs,
you know, like I told a couple of my clients
in the U .S. I was like, ah, well, in 24 hours,
we can have a maybe entity in Dubai. And then
we think about what do we do? Maybe we do cross
border shipments in the U .S. You know, like
rather than B2B, we do B2C directly, Dubai into...
into the US, you know, like, like, and they were
like, Lina, we are not opening companies because
that takes time. You know, like we need solution
now. I said, listen, Dubai is a solution. Now
we can have a company tomorrow on e -commerce.
So, you know, they're like, what? You know, like
what, because the circumstance, we never looked
at it, you know, like people that are trading
in the West, you know, they're like, why would
I do company in Dubai? You know, that sort of
thing, you know, but, but it is that, that simple.
It's super digitized. It's super easy to open.
It's very, very entrepreneurial friendly, if
you like. Biggest challenges come from, so you
open. The challenges comes from opening a bank
account, you know, but if you are, if your first
transaction will be sort of like 10 million,
then obviously you will get all the checks that
is not money laundering and, and source of all
the sort of things. So anything that it comes
on a first transaction, banks are really, really
careful, they monitor, they check, they will
ask you like in any Western country, they will
be like KYC, where the money came, what are you
doing with that, which is normal. So you can
have the entity, but you cannot start wiring
in millions in seconds without actually doing
business in the Middle East. Do you see what
I'm saying? And they are trying to do more and
more like Western world in terms of KYC, prevention
of all the Money law, like all of that, they're
really, really working from the top, like regulation
side, and also banks and entities that open you
these trade license, like they're focusing. But
for like people like me or like you Ricardo,
like who are entrepreneurial, really driven,
visionary, and generally just want to do business,
like not some sort of shady operations, God knows
what. If you are true entrepreneur, it's super
easy, you know, and then like super fast. And
you might have seen in the news, they're very
forward thinking. So now, for example, in Europe,
let's say, imagine saying to you that influencer
is a business. Like we are all like, what the
hell is this influencer? What is this? What is
that? These guys, they say, we want every influencer.
If you're above 10 ,000 followers, come to the
Middle East, we'll give you a visa, and we will
even give you a free office to do influencing
from this country. They're really forward thinking.
Like now, you know, last week AI is mandatory
education in every single curriculum. You have
three months to prepare as a school. You know,
like there's no like, oh, should we put in a
parliament to discuss who wants AI or what is
AI impact on the thing or what is, you know,
these guys are like, it's a future. Like if we
don't prepare our young, you know, schools on
it, they will, they will be irrelevant. Do you
know what I mean? It's so, so forward thinking
and the same on the business, you know, like
let's say every year you need to renew trade
license. Okay. So I just went through my, my,
one of my companies to renewal and imagine natural
thing to do would be, okay, let me copy activities
that I do from last year into this year. Okay.
Like I haven't changed what I'm doing. I try
looking, you know, because when you renew a trade
license, you need to very specific, what are
you doing as a business? Are you trading? Are
you consulting? Are you what consultancy? So
it's like thousands of thousands of rows in Excel,
but you need to sell it. And I'm like, okay,
management consulting. Okay, management consulting
is still there. Anyway, because I do a lot of
AI training. I do a lot of AI, you know, like
now it's changed. And even last year I added
those activities as a new thing, because I'm
quite ahead of most of them. businesses globally
when it comes to AI adoption in retail, in e
-commerce. And so I have loads of clients that
they're even asking me for like training sessions
on AI, not just like, you know, projects. So
I was like, okay, I look for this AI in my renewal.
I was like, where is this AI going? And then
I see them that they added about a hundred new
activities in one year related to AI. Are you
doing AI development? Are you doing AI training?
Are you working with ChachiVT? And you know,
I was saying like, imagine back home, you know,
I was even saying to my aunt, imagine back home,
the government renews, it's like, you know, we're
so used to maybe just the same of the same of
the same, you know, because people are like,
no, because I would need approval and an approval
and a million approval. We have one role on AI,
so let's leave it this AI. Yeah, no way. Everything
is renewed. And I was like, even saying, I was
like, you know, I was reading for all these activities
and I was like, wow, I actually do this. I didn't
know that it's now even an activity, you know,
like even for someone who's been doing business
and long time here, I was like, I constantly,
I am amazed, you know, like I'm generally, generally
amazed how fast they are reacting to the global
trends and they make it, they try to make it
easier and easier and easier. They generally,
generally what you read around the world that
they want everyone here. They generally like,
they do, you know, and, and look, my plan, you
know, if you ask me, what's your plan B, my plan
B is always Europe, you know, I'm European. So
of course I would. you know, God forbid something
happens, I packed my bags and I go back, you
know, but, but being an expat here and running
a business, I don't get any, you know, like you
could say like, are you discriminated because
you're a foreigner? Are you like, you know, are
you discriminated because you're a woman? Nothing.
They are open arms. They are like equal rights
for everyone. It's so like At no point I even
like, you know, she's a female, she has issues.
No way. I can honestly, I'm the best advocate.
You know, if I, you know, if I could move my
parents here and they would not be in love with
their, what they do at home, I would move them
here. I would generally like, if I, you know,
my sister's in London, parents in Lithuania and
entrepreneurs and all of them. So, you know,
it's not so easy to move like the businesses,
but if I could, you know, like I tell my sister
all the time, like, listen. Drop whatever you're
doing. You know, she's a quite big architect
in London. I said drop the architecture can't
be an architect here I tell my parents my parents
and the hospitality like hotels and all this
sort of thing quite the mini and Empire but so
I said to my dad Oh, I just wish you know, you
can move these buildings into Dubai and just
move here like I genuinely genuinely that thing.
It's great Lin is it easy to get investment in
the Middle East and for young young entrepreneur
for you know, a startup is it easy to go to invest
and say hey Can you invest in my company? Are
you interested in investing? How does that work?
No. So this is a very good question. So the answer
is no, in a nutshell. Over here, it's not about
that it's not easy. It's about that the market
is not mature enough. So you know, like in Silicon
Valley, you have venture capital, you have private,
and it's very clear. If your revenue is X, you
can go to VC. If your revenue is Y, you can go
to private equity. If your revenue is below this,
you go to angel investor. If your revenue is
this, you can friends and family. Like this is
pre -seed seed, like a serious A, B. No one,
like, you know, like if I would go to Silicon
Valley, like all like the London investment scene,
like if you like, I would not, I would not turn
up to the VC and be like. Well, I'm making $10
,000 a month from the subscriptions. Can you
invest in me? The VC would be like, Lina, I love
you to bits, but I mean, have you read the venture
capital? You know what I mean? You would never
even turn up to this because people will look
at me like, is she delusional? At the same time,
if you're Uber, You're not going to go to like
a angel invest and be like, sorry, can you just
drop like a hundred million on the investment?
You know, like the people who look at me are,
okay, like she's like, why is she not going to
VC's private equity? What is she doing? You know,
like she, it would paint me as a founder. Like
I haven't done any research. Okay. So it's very,
very mature and very structured. What the maturity
also brings is that to get introductions, it's,
I wouldn't say easy, but it's. easier because
these VCs would have like events. They would,
you know, but it's publicly advertised. You know,
it's not like someone or someone called you,
send a WhatsApp and turn up. Now, will we in
the UAE and Saudi one day be there? For sure.
So my kids are five and seven. When my kids are
in their twenties, and if they want to build
businesses here and raise money and whatever
else, I am sure. We will be, maybe it will take
even faster, but we will be like Silicon Valley.
Okay. Like I have no doubt with their vision,
but where are we now? Now you need to remember
that traditional money like investment does not
exist here in a mature way. So yes, we have VCs,
we have private equities, we have like angel
investors, but it's more like you can count on
like, you know what I mean? It's not like volume,
you know. So you can't say like, oh, I'm building
the biotech and there is like a hundred companies
that I can approach for money. Do you know what
I mean? Like it will be like, I'm building biotech
so I can only go after one company and that company
invests in biotech, fintech, AI and what else,
you know? But what this region has where the
West doesn't have, over here it's still very
family office oriented culture. Okay. So there
are a lot of wealthy families that have their
family offices. Okay. That can invest, you know,
so if you read, you know, how much they invested,
family offices invested in chat open air. So
pretty much no one in the U S can even match
it. You know what they invest, you can reach
what they invested in, like all these, like,
um, sales forces and, and Microsoft and what
else, you know, so the money as of the value
itself, it exists, right? But the route to that
money is slightly different to what you would
have in the Western world. So here is very family
offices. So what does that mean? If the family
office does not believe culturally or family,
you know, like we all have our own beliefs. Yeah.
Like imagine like someone, you know, coming into
your family, like you would not marry someone,
you know, that you don't like, right? While VC
could invest even if they don't like you because
it's an opportunity in the Western world. But
in here, it's like you coming into their family
sort of thing. So family would judge, family
would vote. So it could take six months, 12 months,
two years till you build a relationship with
them before they will open you a checkbook. What
that means is that if you are already existing
business and you can show projection and there
are some like big VCs behind you in the Western
world, they will quite openly invite you and
learn, you know, because they love... People
over here are very humble in the sense that they
will tell you, I have never done this biotech.
You know, like in Europe we're very bad at admitting.
We will be like, no, I am a big... you know the
partner in this company and this and this you
know even if you haven't done it you will not
openly say in the meeting I have no clue what
you're presenting to me right well over here
everyone's very humble they will be like Ricardo
I absolutely have no idea what it does however
let me read about it I find it fascinating it's
good if these people believed in you like maybe
there is some meat behind you know so they're
very like a family like a friends you know conversation
and they would open you so so the First route
to market is family offices, but it's a lot harder
to get to them because it's not open, right?
It's not advertised. It's not like they don't
organize events. Like the always the question
is like, how do you get to them? Okay. And how
do you normally get is like by being just here,
like you can't, you can't do it from the, from
anywhere else. You know, it's very still. I would
say physical, like you need to meet, you met
someone, someone introduced you, someone, someone
like this. Very like what, let's say your grandparents
would do business or my grandparents would do
business like traditional way, like what now
in Uzair. So that's one. Secondly, over here,
we have a lot of, in a very dense environment,
we have a lot of high network individuals, like
individuals. So now what does that mean? These
people don't want to run business on your behalf.
They generally like, you know how you would go
into like, VC or like private equity, they will
ask you for these like budgets, board meetings.
I sit on quite a lot of like boards, you know,
like it's like non -exec directors, you know,
like, like a proper governance structure. Okay.
Over here, like high network individuals, they
would believe in you like a founder. Okay. So
it's not so much about how much you're going
to build the next Uber, but more about who you
are as a founder. And when they meet you, like,
you know, I can't tell you how many success stories
there is here where like founder was like doing
A, they met in like angel investor, sort of like
high network individual who doesn't really even
really care what they're doing in that sense.
But they like, they see that spark in founders
eyes and the investor would say, listen, do you
not want to do B? I'm not telling you change,
but I think you would, I've seen enough in my
life that you might be doing B and you will scale
at it. And it's a lot more mentoring relationship
if that's the right word, you know? So these
high network individuals really might give you
the cash, you know, but not the millions, you
know what I mean? Like, so we're talking like
million, maybe like half million dollars, you
know, like just to kind of get going and test
the idea. And then they will really play. a mentor
role, like you can call them, you can tap into
their resources. Like, you know, cause most of
these high network investors have like companies,
like back office operations, contacts. So if
you are driven as a founder, you can be like,
okay, I need this introduction. I know you're
doing A, I even know you're doing B. Can you
introduce me to A, B and C? So imagine if Ricardo
is this investor in ABCD companies and I get
access when I start on ABCD companies. It's a
start. It's a start. So if you don't give up,
you will make it. You will make it. No one will
give you millions as a salary. So these high
network individuals are not going to say like,
okay, now Ricardo, you want 20 ,000 euros salary.
You know, like they will not, but they will,
you know, they will give you some cash plus open
you a lot of doors. And I think on that, it's
a lot easier to meet here because it's very dense
society and people are sharing knowledge very
easily. Then, you know, let's say to meet high
network individual in London. I personally, I
don't know where would I begin in London, you
know, trying to meet high network individuals.
I wouldn't even know like where to begin. Do
you see what I'm saying? I'm curious on one thing
because I know you've been through a lot of struggles.
Yeah. What do you say to yourself when you're
struggling with something? What's the one thing,
what's the one message that pops in the back
of your mind saying I can do this? What is it?
What keeps you pushing forward? This is definitely
not the answer you would expect. But this is
all in my life, not just like the struggles.
I always have very clear plan A, B and C, but
all my life, all my life, no matter what I do.
So my plan A, take every risk possible. What
does that mean? I am one of these lucky people
that bought Bitcoin when no one knew the Bitcoin,
but I also bought all the NFTs that, you get
what I'm saying? I made money, lost money. I
am very, very big risk taker, you know, on a
plan A. So no matter what I do, because my plan
B is a husband. Okay. So I know that, you know,
he has a stable job. I know that from his job,
we can live in the apartment. We would have enough
food on the table. The kids will not have to
drop, you know, and I think it calms me down,
you know, like knowing that Yes, maybe we cannot
live the same lifestyle, holidays, flights, and
I don't know, investments and whatever else,
but we can survive. You know what I mean? So
it really calms me down for my plan A. That's
what I'm, if you ask people and they're like,
Oh my God, Lina is like next level of risk. And
that's why I got into this AI before the world
was even, like I was using ChatGVT in 2022 when
they just released beta. Do you know what I mean?
Like, so like. I'm always, I get myself involved
in all these things that, but I'm very curious,
like very, very curious as a personality. So
that's my plan B and my plan C is always my parents.
And I, and I'm only always very open about them.
Like I tell them all the time I'm like, like
I would call my dad and say, listen, I have this
crazy idea. I want to start something. I'm going
to pour $50 ,000 from my pocket. If it falls
and I need like, you know, I will take from my
immersed business. to put in something crazy.
But if I have no money for the employees' salaries,
because I've done some, I don't know, some crazy
thing, I said, can I borrow from you the cash?
Like, you know, but I would call him always and
very openly say, like, can I rely on you to lend
me this amount of money if I need it? Fingers
crossed I don't. And, you know, so I think it's
a fortunate situation to be in. But I think it
calms me down on having plan A, B, C. And that's
why I am, as you can see, quite chatty. I drop
clients, you know, if they, if they don't meet
my comp, you know, like if they root, if the
client is rude to my team, I would drop the client
and I will call the client and say, listen, as
much, maybe you are even right. Maybe my team
is wrong, but I can't afford to lose the team.
I can't. So if this balance is not achieved because
you don't like. her or him he or she doesn't
like you maybe let's just park ways doesn't change
anything between Lina and Ricardo but as business
we we cannot work and I'm very open about it
because I'm always thinking that it's good to
be walking on eggshells it makes you think outside
the box it makes me hustle and and you know like
and I think I always laugh you know like my some
of people say oh it's easy you know and you can
call dad and I said well you try to be 37 And
admit to your father that you need to borrow
money. Like you got to such a level that you
need to borrow money from your dad. I said like,
just think about it. How embarrassing is this?
So yes, maybe it's good that, but like I don't,
I don't manipulate that because that's also beyond
embarrassment. You know, like on one level, you
know, he reads about me in the papers, watches
on TV. And second minute, like what I need to
call him, like say, sorry, I can't pay my employees
salaries. Like I tried not to get myself in a
situation like this, you know. But that's what
calms me down. I don't overthink anything, which
is maybe bad, but I don't stress. I'm very mathematical.
I try to solve every problem with a potential
solution. I'm not going to lie, in 10 years of
doing business, I told the client, don't pay
this invoice. It was my mess. My team forgot
to turn off the ads. I called the client and
said, listen, we spend extra $10 ,000. more than
you had it on a budget. I would tell the client,
take it out of my invoice. And they're like,
no, it's fine. I said, no, no, take it. It's
my team's mess, but I don't take from their salaries.
You know what I mean? But I'm very, very big
believer on, on it's okay to make mistakes as
long as we learn from them. But I try not to
stress about like lose sleep over it because
entrepreneurship is hard, but it's super rewarding.
Look at me. I'm going to go and work from the
summer, from Europe, you know, all summer. So
like. I love what I do, I generally do, and I
would encourage everyone to do it. But it's definitely,
I can say, you don't become Jeff Bezos overnight,
like for sure. It's all about hustle, curiosity,
pivoting, always, you know, and always, always
motivating yourself, first of all, because it
is hard not having a boss. Who do you complain
to? Nobody. Very true. Lina, as we nearing the
end of the podcast, if people want to reach out
to you, what's the best way of doing so? The
best is definitely LinkedIn. I am the most active
on LinkedIn. You can find me in all these Instagrams
and everything, but LinkedIn is, I share about
e -commerce news and retail news every single
day. I'm very active. I write all myself. I'm
truly very passionate about it. And I really
want to educate as many people as possible about
the industry itself. This is, I feel like my
legacy. So LinkedIn is my go -to platform. If
it's a platform, I also have a quite active WhatsApp
community, you know, if you are in e -commerce
and retail, so also very quite active, but LinkedIn
is, so definitely connect with me, drop me a
line. Let me know if you enjoy the podcast and
we take it from there. Sounds good. Lina, thank
you so much for your time. It's been an absolute
pleasure. All right, Ricardo. Thanks for having
me. Bye. Notion is offering 6 months for free
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