Welcome to the Innovation Conversation, a podcast
about innovators, both in business and real life.
Hosted by myself, Ricardo Rescual and Harry McCona.
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Hi, and welcome to another episode of the Innovation
Conversation. Today we are joined by Anmong Go.
Anmong, welcome to the podcast now. Face to face.
No, I'm super, super glad, especially given this
is the first in -person podcast. I'm really honored
to join you here, Ricardo. It's my pleasure.
It's my pleasure. So thank you. Thank you so
much for agreeing to this and the crazy background
we have. Hope the guys can appreciate the lava
lamp. It's going to start warming up. So it's
going to look pretty cool. I know a lot has been
happening in your life since we first spoke.
So tell us all about it. I know you've been to
a lot of conferences. I know you've been to Nocci.
you know, not stop traveling around the world.
Your startups are also taking off massively and
you also have a fun nose. Yeah. Tell us all about
that. No, thank you. Yeah. So big changes. I
think the biggest one you touched upon is the
fun now. So I'm currently on track to be the
youngest ever fund manager with the Nate Figure
Fund in the world. So if I sort of do the first
close, Forbes came and knocked on the door. It
was like, hey, by the way, you've been nominated
for Forbes 30 in the 30, and this is sort of
the process. And I'm hoping if I nail the first
close of the fund, which I want to do by July.
I will get there but yeah essentially the fund
is called Arian Ventures and the thesis of the
fund is we are backing Indian origin founders
in UK and US. Now by no means this is a positive
discrimination play because you know Indian founders
tend to do really well anyways so The focus is
a bit more on the statistics and now when you
look at the general statistics of the Indian
diaspora in the West, you realize they're number
one in education rates, they're number one most
real estate owned, they have one of the lowest
crime rates. That's as a general group. And then
when you start digging into venture, you realize
Indian origin founders are Four times more likely
to result in a unicorn in the UK and eight times
more likely to result in a unicorn in the US
and last year alone they resulted in almost three
hundred billion in startup value creation outside
of India. Which is more than any other diaspora
out there so it logically made sense for me as
a British Indian who's been part of this diaspora
has been growing up there to make this sort of
niche because ultimately. Everyone is backing
indians in india there's no one backing them
outside of india so this is my sort of usb right
to when lps ask you why this thesis and why you
obviously i had my why this thesis because of
the stuff but why me is because. Indians in India
can't do what I'm doing because they don't have
the exposure. They don't know what it is to sort
of be a first or second gen growing up in this
country. That's a slightly different sort of
experience. So I have now captured both worlds.
I initially spent my first 10 years of my life
growing up in India, but then the last 15 years
here, spending a decent bit of time in the US.
So that's culminated into this fund. We're about
to do our first close. We've done 50 % of that
already. So yeah, in the process of getting that
through, deployed it to three companies already,
and we have a pipeline of a few others brewing.
So super, super excited with that one. Well,
that's quite impressive what you're doing. Yeah,
yeah, no, definitely. But hard, and that's why
all the travels. So I'm currently averaging about
10 to 12 flights a month. I think that's actually
more than most airline people, to be honest.
Especially long haul, because he did a lot of
long haul as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's quite
a lot. Yeah, exactly. But no, these events have
been super, super interesting, especially, you
know, the ones seeing in the US and in Middle
East and in India and Europe. It's given me sort
of a holistic picture of how things are moving
in different locations and what I can sort of
pick from one location to the other. And, you
know, how I can sort of be the key connector,
right? My role almost at this global scale has
now become of this super connector when people
are like, Hey, do you know anyone who's doing
this? They're like, actually, yeah, I do. All
right. I mean, what have been the differences
you managed to find between all these different
countries? Is there like, are people just focusing
on AI just in US or actually can see that across
the world? Is there any specific vertical that's
growing a lot in one area, not the other one?
I mean, what are your findings? I think AI now
has almost turned into such a, you know, I would
almost sort of take it back to the mid late 90s
when internet sort of came. And I think AI is
the internet of the 90s in the sense that there
will no longer be the conversation of whether
you're an AI company or not. It's more so AI
has become the internet of now in the sense that
if you're not using AI, you'd like not using
the internet. It just becomes why. But the question
more so is, are you AI first? Or are you using
AI as enhancement? So in the sense that are you
a medtech first or a fintech company, which is
using AI as enrichment, or are you an AI first
company where the whole transaction, the whole
focus is AI itself, is the whole machine learning
algorithm, in the sense you're a data then company.
And on top of that, you're building your agentic
models. So I think AI is now going to be the
big thing and it's going to continue being more
and more integratable. Most people now, they
can't imagine their life without Chad GPT, right?
Google's usage has gone down ever since Chad
GPT came up. Everyone just, Chad GPT is everything.
Even kids in school nowadays, right? I met my
cousin the other day. She's six years old and
she was using Chad GPT and I was like, yeah.
She was talking about searching something up
in the news and she didn't go to Google. She
went to Chad GPT and I was like... Interesting
coming back on the topic in terms of what trends
I'm seeing. I think Eastern European and sort
of general European trend as well. We're seeing
movement towards energy and medtech. Part of
the reason is we're expecting the war to come
to a stop. And now a lot of the focus is going
to go on that rebuilding rehabilitation on the
medtech side, seeing a lot of bionics companies
come out of Ukraine and Poland. And that is a
massive, massive opportunity. So if you have
a company there, you know, and you can get it.
even like one government or private owned contract,
I think that's going to be worth millions, because
the estimated cost of rebuilding Ukraine and
Russia has been put to about 100 billion. So,
you know, getting a small slither of that pie
is going to be huge. In the US, it's interesting.
I mean, obviously Trump with Masasa from Japan,
they've come through and built this $500 billion
package that's going to be coming in and they
want to do a lot more. for the U .S. built by
the U .S. So we're seeing, you know, with these
levies and tariffs come in, a lot of the stuff
which made U .S. this hub of immigration and
color for the world and coming in and putting
it together, we're seeing slight detachment in
that. For my last few conversations from a few
family officers that I know there, it's been
constantly being repeated that where are you
building? Well, why not U .S.? So the focus is
slightly Transitioning on to that and in terms
of the UK the UK slightly falling behind which
is slightly concerning me so the statistic last
year was ten thousand millionaires left the UK
which was the largest exodus of wealth leaving
UK ever. So I think something like that now needs
to change in the UK, partly in the government,
where we need to bring in innovations back into
the UK with the Innovate UK program also going
on a halt. The SEIS, EIS bounds being lowered.
I think the trend in the UK, unfortunately, is
on the declining side of venture enthusiasm.
So I think there needs to be some shift in the
mindset. Dubai and all these locations, they're
captivating on all of this. So with conferences
like AIM, like LEAP. So I hope something like
this comes back into the UK so we can see a better
transition there. Interesting. And going back
to your fund, what's the market telling you?
Because you have great statistics behind you,
right? We know for a fact there's actually quite
a lot of Indian CEOs and a lot of massive companies.
I'm thinking Google, I'm thinking Pepsi, I'm
sure there's plenty more that I can't think of
right now. What's the market telling you? Like
what investors, LPs going back to you saying,
you know what? Yeah, we're going to give you
some money because it makes perfect sense to
us. Yeah, no. I mean, you said Pepsi, Google,
Microsoft, FedEx, you know. So actually, I think
the statistic is 28 out of the Fortune 500 companies
CEOs are of Indian origin. And the statistic
is 31 or 32 percent of all C -suite positions
in Fortune 500 and FTSE 250 companies. they have
at least one Indian origin members on the board.
So the LPs, I mean, most of them, they understand
it. I think it's never been hard for me to sell
the thesis where the difficulty is. You know
is it sort of being a standalone player do you
tube how young i am you know the the restrictions
usually on that end but you know my track record
is building well and you know because i was able
to enter in positions like open the eyes father
may i am and feel our portfolio as well through
the venture studio arm and what we syndicated
are now sitting at two three x in just two years
time alone. That's not giving me the momentum
to go up and speak to them but no i think. The
statistics of how the Indian diaspora is doing
overall. I mean, you know, there was a topic,
there was a publisher, a published one came out
in Telegraph last year, which said Indians in
the UK now are in the most real estate, right?
And that's comparative to any other diaspora,
right? So, you know, I think English Scotsmen,
Irishmen, I think they make up. You know i think
it's thirty percent fifteen percent and so on
and so forth but you're looking at three percent
minority capturing most of the wealth now. So
I think the data itself is showing that things
are moving in a good way and especially now that
you're seeing, especially in the US, you saw
this massive generation of first generation immigrants
who came in and these guys were all in Google
and Microsoft and now their kids, they've had
this opportunity of seeing their parents being
ultra well connected. That's one thing the Indian
diaspora does really well. It's very community
-led, right? It's not very much like, you know,
you're there, so whatever, but it's very much,
okay, you're there, now bring me in. Now, I know
you, okay, you connect with him. And just putting
the pieces together, it's just we've not been
the biggest ones of, you know, tooting our own
horn, you know, which is a good thing. I mean,
you don't want to be sort of just rowdy and shouting
up everywhere. But now, the focus of the fund
is just pooling that together because people...
When you think of Indians in tech, everyone always
has good things to say. Everyone thinks of the
Satyas and the Rishi of Oak North and the Sundar
Pichai and everyone. They already think of that,
but it's what comes underneath and then goes
total as an ecosystem. So yeah, now it's just
pieces already there. It's just pulling them
together. Why do you think that is though? What
makes it? What makes people coming in for India
so successful? I think there's a few reasons.
I think one of the biggest ones is education.
So if you look at the education statistics of
Indians versus the general diaspora, 78 % of
the Indian diaspora has a bachelor's degree versus
the general diaspora in the UK and US averages,
I think, 36%. And then the statistic is, again,
first time immigrants who are coming in. 40 %
of them have a master's, whereas, again, UK,
US masters around sort of 4%. So the education
attribute is a big part of it. I think, again,
coming on board as an immigrant is the idea of
wanting to do well in a country like UK, US.
This is always sort of shown as that dream, that
mentality of like... this is the place where
you sort of truly make it. And I think that's
just a general statistic that immigrants tend
to perform a bit better due to coming from hardships
and so on and so forth. And I think part of that
is also the cultural community aspect that I
mentioned as well, where they tend to stick together,
gel together, help each other out and the values
that are. the store upon them from a very young
age and a combination of those things you know
when you talk about you know you know it's a
very passive community who sticks together who
is well educated and you know in the west tends
to do really well with assets in general you
get this whole perfect recipe of education experience
and togetherness and i don't think you need anything
more than that right after they just need some
guiding steps and holding hands and you can do
pretty well. Very interesting. What about your
own startups? I mean, the ones you invested in,
how are they performing? Super well, which is
I'm really going to knock on wood. I think since,
you know, I've been doing this, you know, in
terms of the advisory side about three years,
investment side about two years. A lot of it's
obviously paper money. So, you know, I can say
the startup is one of the startups sitting at
Atex and so on and so forth. So, you know, now
the next thing is how do we move towards exit,
which has been sort of my big focus because I
was speaking to a gentleman, you know, who, again,
can't say the name, unfortunately, but, you know,
they did a round in 2021, which made them a unicorn.
So their valuation was 1 .8 billion. Right and
that was the peak of the time and at that point
him himself with his sort of equity in the company
and was worth around I think just shy of 250
million right giving but now you know the company
had some shareholder issues still still going
around but you know he left the company and now
he's like I don't know when I'm going to get
my share. A few years back, this guy's seemingly
worth a quarter of a billion and now he's starting
his second company and raising the seed round.
It's not a bad thing or anything. I'm still sure
he's got a couple million in his bank account
and he's not by any means in a bad shape. The
focus very much is money is great in the sense
of the valuation and multiplying, but how do
we realize that valuation? My overall portfolio
is now sitting at about 3X. in just about two
years, which I'm pretty glad with. But so many
things change when you start to exit, your net
profits and what sort of result I can exit out
of that. So yeah, the main focus is now let's
start. Obviously, we're building, building, building,
but let's look at the final picture of who we
can exit it to. In the market, there's usually
generally only three options to exit. And you
obviously have your IPO, which is very, very
rare out of the unicorns. So a billion dollar
company who go to IPO. I think the statistic
is like six point something percent. So there's
a massive struggle. People think. you made it
to unicorn you've done it no like the battle
is is still there right so so you know ipa is
very rare then the second most second least likely
option there is secondaries the secondaries are
heating up now so it's giving it especially in
the fast consumer b2c plus fintech market as
that's where the most users are so that's the
second likely option where you know given that
your company's now at sort of $250 billion around
your series B, series C stage, you'd start to
get some options to move out of that. And then
the most likely is acquisitions, right? So we
want to now work our way of who can be our exiting
partners. We're growing, growing, growing. Let's
start working back and back and back and see
where we can meet in the middle where I'm like,
this is 20X or this is 15X. I'm more than happy
to take my money out at this stage. Cause you
mostly invest in the early stage, right? Yeah.
So through the Venture Studio, we tend to come
in super early. The thesis of the Venture Studio
is we come in pre -seed, most of the time we're
fast co -checks. So the model is a matched equity
investment in the sense that we'll put in a dollar
if you're able to bring in a dollar. So we don't
mind being co -leads, but yeah, we've put in
small checks like 20. K, 50K, and these are at
like valuations of 2 million, right? So we're
going when there's pretty much nothing there.
They've just got like a small MVP. So we're going
super, super early stage. So the risk is immense.
So we need to be very, very critical. And we
are almost betting more on the founder than the
idea itself. Does he or she have the ability
to build and do what it takes? How can you pick
the good founder though? Is there any defining
trait that you'd normally pick up on or anything?
You know what? They're probably going to be very
successful. Yeah. I think the good thing about
founders is the ones that really show is they
either have some sort of background or they've
done it before, but more so they have a clear
aim of what they want to build. how they wanna
build it and what they want your role to be a
lot of times you know i'll get founders and they
like. Money and i don't think that should be
the conversation right and and that almost the
test the investors away where someone who's coming
with a ready plan of. Hey, look, this is what
my last startup was. Whether failed or exited
or whatever, this is what I learned from it.
This is what I built. I did a few rounds. Now
this is where I am with this current round. This
is how I'm building. This is how I source the
team together. Here's my pipeline. I want you
to enable this, this and this. Like I've had
guys get onto a call with me and write and say,
tell me about your fund. Dude, no, you should
do this. You know, if you want and if you're
getting on a call with an investor and this is
just a tip to everyone out there. Don't ask the
investors of what do you do. You should already
if you've gone ahead and booked a call most of
the investors out there for 95 % anyway, definitely
the ones who have been VCs and venture studios.
They have their portfolios out there. They have
exactly what criteria they look for. Of course
you can ask them to expand a little bit, but
don't just go in there with like a blank slate
and hoping that they will be the guys, right?
Go in there and say, Hey, I saw you invested
in ABC. IO that's very similar to us do you think
there's a potential there right take take something
take some sort of initiative where investor goes
he's done his research good he's a strong egg
right he's gone and done his sort of background
research so i think those founders are very clear
cut from the early doors you know who have taken
the initiative they've mapped out they know how
they're going to build they have a team ready
in place And again, a big indicator is also who
have they been able to bring on board as advisors,
right? Because those are almost your first non
-cash investors, right? If you're getting ex
-Google, ex -Netflix, ex -Facebook guys to come
sit on your board, well, clearly you have something
because these guys, you know, they're earning
half a million at least, right? And in their
jobs, why are they coming and giving you two,
three hours a week? Well, there's a reason behind
it, right? Whether or not you're sort of taking
cash from them. that's an even better sell. But
those are the early telltale indicators. And
then it's very much assessing the company itself
in terms of where is the idea, where is the market,
what is the feasibility, who the competition
is, what the competition is doing. The founders
who tend to do well and we bet on, the big difference
is they do the little things very, very well.
And these little things of knowing the data,
knowing the differences, knowing how the market
changes, knowing what they want from us, knowing
what the next five steps are gonna be. This is
what the real different is between a gung -ho
founder who's just flailing his arms and is trying
to be the tech bro versus a founder who's gonna
do well. What do you think when they pivot because
most early very early stage startups tend to
pivot. Do you panic as an investor or you actually
think that's part of the process and you just
kind of sit back and see you know I believe in
them let's see what they come up with. I think
look pivoting is part of the journey. I can't
think of a single startup that's gone from a
zero to a hundred without pivoting. Take Google,
for example. YouTube was meant to be a live dating
website. Imagine if that was the case now. You
look at the biggest of the biggest, smallest
of the smallest. Being nimble and adaptive, especially
at the earliest stages, it's super, super important.
I mean, you're obviously not going to see the
likes of OpenAI and Revolut Pivot, but when you're
pre... That being said, Revolut just launched
a crypto thing, a crypto app. Yes, actually getting
really like tons of market share. Yeah. Yeah.
Obviously, but it's a subsidiary, right? So Revolut
has Revolut business, Revolut has Revolut transactions,
Revolut has, you know, now their FX and crypto
market. And now they're even looking at going
into, you know, different neo banking stages.
But that's not pivoting. That's just adding into
the margins, right? They're a $50 billion company.
But in the in the early stage, definitely, if
you're series A and under, you need to be very
nimble. Reason being is especially now. Nowadays,
market is moving and changing so, so quickly.
And if you're not adaptable, you're going to
be wiped out like this. You're gone within a
few days. There's so many startups. There's more
startups than ever. I think pre -2019, small
businesses and startups across the world, I think
the statistic was there were around 22 million
people or 22 million, sorry, small businesses
and startups that were out there. These are including
your mom and pop shops and small companies. Just
in the last five years, that number has gone
up to 60. So it's 3x in five years and that's
because... everyone in their mom and dad and
dog wants to do a startup. Now everyone wants
to build and create something because the cost
of you know, the biggest thing is the barrier
to entry, the cost of entry of building your
startup has gone so super low. I mean, I can
go online and I can do an AI website, AI, you
know, no code, low code design and, you know,
put a few ideas out there, pitch deck I can do
for AI. Like I can give you a whole new pitch
deck with a new website with a, you know, low
code MVP in about two days, right? And it might
cost me 200 bucks. The cost of entry has gone
so, so low that so many more players can enter
the market now. You've got to remember that thing
now of how easy it is to how you can differentiate
and what is your moat and how you're building
that. Do you think we're making wealth more accessible
or the path to wealth more accessible? Because
a couple of years ago, people say, go to a nice
school. work hard and find a nice job in a very
stable company. And that's kind of it, right?
That's it. You don't need to worry about anything
else. You can then buy a house, you can then
afford very nice holidays, yourself for life.
However, nowadays, we kind of know that that
pathway, it doesn't really work that well. So
you can still go to a very good unit, you might
not find the perfect job. And if you do find
the perfect job, it doesn't mean the company
is stable, right? They can still kick you out
and say, you know what, we had some changes.
But then when you're launching your own business,
of course, there's a lot more challenges. But
then also more rewards at that moment so yeah
no i think look i think what you talk about is
also the parents generation where you know stability
was you go work my job and that's it yeah yeah
but that was the thing because you know in the
interesting statistics in the uk in general was
that your. Value of your house which was always
the sign of you know how well you doing was is
your annual salary was a ratio between one to
four and in the sense that. you know, you were
earning 10 ,000 pounds a year and the average
house in the country cost around 40 to 45. So,
you know, you as a couple might need to work
two to three, four years and save maybe for five
or so years. But now the case is the average
house in the country costs around 300 ,000 and
the average salary is 25 ,000. So now it's gone
up to 15 times what used to be four to five times.
So it's become that much more difficult. to have
your house and build and that dream of like working
the nine to five. And I mean, maybe in some positions,
yes, if you're a quant Goldman's and the likes
of JP and, you know, so on and so forth, you
can still achieve that. But for the everyday
person, they're just looking at it. It's like,
I'm doing four years at university. I'm going
60, 70 grand in debt to just come back and, you
know, be slogging off paying my debt and struggling
and, you know, making barely ends meet. This
is not what I want to do. So I think. People
change and their ability to do what they do change
when, I think I'm going to completely butcher
this quote is, but it's, you change when the,
I'm completely butchered this, but it is a roughly
give or take. when the pain of staying same is
more than the pain of changing. Give or take,
might have to do a little cut here. And you know,
that's what we're seeing in people that they're
just so sick and tired of being in that position
of not being able to make anything worth. Like,
you know, most people who I know are earning
even 40, 50 grand salaries. They're like, at
the end of the month, I'm left with like a few
hundred bucks. But that's not a lot of money,
especially for London. Not a lot of money. It
sounds like a lot of money, but when you start
paying all your bills, you kind of want to leave.
I don't mean a crazy lifestyle, but you kind
of want to go buy clothes in a certain shop.
You don't want to have nice television, nice
room, all that. It comes onto nothing. Which
is crazy when you think about it. I mean, you
go for not even ridiculous, but a nice dinner
with your partner. You order some drinks, entree
and food, and that's like 150 bucks. It depends
where you take them. That's more your style.
McDonald's, but it is expensive. I wish McDonald's
was still a good place. So I think that's the
reason so many people are going into the startup
world where they're like, if we're going to dedicate
so many hours to barely cut through, we might
as well do it on something where I'm getting
all the money, right? Because when I was in wealth
management and my charge out rate at age 21 or
age 22 was like 350 pounds an hour, right? And
my billables were like the best of the best.
And I realized, out of that 350, like whatever
my salary was, I think my salary was equivalent
to like 22 or 23 pounds an hour. And I was like,
Hold on a minute. Something doesn't add up here.
I'm making you so much money and I'm only getting
this part of it. And again, the big thing with
these, you know, giant MNCs is yes, you'll have
access and ability, which is good to have in
the early years, but they're very slow to promote
you. You'll never go from an analyst to a VP
in two years, even if you are the best of the
best. Right. I had two promotions in two and
a half years. which was unheard of in my company
because most people at that time didn't even
have one. But even then I was like, dude, I need
to do so much more. I need to do this. And they
were like, no, no, no. Yeah. Yeah. So at that
point, people are like, I'm going to build my
own thing. I'm going to take a hundred percent
of what I do. And there's no upside, right? There's
sorry, there's no limit to the upside. And I
think that's the big differentiator now. And
I urge people, you know. Let's talk about something
else then. How about risk? How have you managed
to risk? Because having that decision means you're
then quitting your day job and then you're transitioning
to something else, which is completely uncertain.
You kind of don't know what's going to happen.
You don't know if you're going to be successful
or not. So you're kind of betting all the chips
in yourself, which is a bit scary. I think risk
mitigation partly depends on what stage of life
you're in. If you're listening to this as a,
you know, under 25, 26 year old and you're like,
You know my parents have a house like take all
the risk in the world because you have time you
are early if you're between the age of fifteen
to twenty five twenty six just risk it cuz what's
the worst can happen you gonna start again i
mean most people at this age are at that stage
where that may be doing a masters that trying
again the still applying right couple of my friends
who graduated and that did the masters that took
a gap year or whatever. They're still looking
for their initial jobs now, right? I just started
building shit when I was 19, just because I,
that was like, I always wanted money. I came
from a very humble house and my thing was always,
even if I can earn an extra hundred pounds, they'll
make a difference. So if you, you know, if you
can take that bet by all means, like when I was
launching my venture studio and I had to do my
first two hires, full time hires, and I had to
sort of leave my contract in the house where
I was in, ran out. My choice was. Either I take
that risk and launch that company and hire these
two guys and I had to sleep on sofas for two
months or I just continue as it is. And I was
like, it's two months. I'm going to sleep on
sofas. That's fine. So I couch top. three of
my friends for about seven and a half weeks where
I was like I can't afford to pay two time full
salaries plus software costs and also pay for
you know because London housing is like you pay
one month up front and then you pay the rent
and you know everything is up front and I was
like I can't do it so I have to choose that either
or and my gamble was I'm gonna try it what's
the worst that can happen I live two months on
the sofa as it doesn't work out I'm gonna get
into the second house anyways so But obviously,
what I wouldn't say is if you have completely
zero in the bank account. I mean, again, in that
case, you can look at it from both ways, right?
If you're already on zero, you can't go to, you
know. I mean, you could definitely get into debt,
but then don't get into debt. Don't do anything
stupid. I mean, by the way, don't take that advice,
but in the sense that if you're already at rock
bottom, the only way is up. Right but if you're
young you're hungry go for it because you know
you have so much time there's so much learning
if you can you know dedicate your hours to it
but i think you can very well build on the side
people is just. They don't have enough motivation
to tell themselves they don't have the energy
or whatever whatever. I mean I'm not saying them
be crazy I think at one point I was just a lunatic
who was you know working 21 hours a day every
single day with only three hours of sleep for
nine months so that was very very unhealthy but
I think sometimes that's just what it takes right
those are the chapters when you look back and
go every piece of that is now worth it right
I put in so many hours in 2022 2023 with seeing
barely any result like if I tell you when I started
my business my year one I made 9 ,000 pounds.
My year two, I made 75 ,000 pounds. Year three,
I'm just about to close. I'm about to do just
over seven figures. So what do you say to yourself
when you're just making 9 ,000? I'm going to
do it. You have to be. You know this is partly
seen as delusion But I think the best of the
best founders are you have to believe in yourself
more than anyone else ever will because otherwise
you'll never make it though There's so many people
that will try and pull you and drag you down
But you yourself need to have that faith of I'm
putting in the work. I'm doing the right thing
and I just got to keep at it I've not met a single
person who's been doing the right thing who's
been putting in time putting in the effort and
has been true to their craft for a decade and
not make it big It's just people quit too early.
There's no way you put 10 years of blood, sweat,
and tears, go all in, not cheat on what you're
doing, and you not make it. It doesn't happen.
I've not heard of something like that. Obviously,
there's crashes and crisis later on, which can
happen again, but then you rebuild. What else
is there to do? You have the skill set to do
it. How do you, as an investor, when you have
this delusional founder, And I'm saying this
in a loving, tender way, because everyone, I
think, needs to be a little bit delusional in
the beginning. How do you guide them in the right
direction? And how do you differentiate between
the delusional ones and the ones who are slightly
crazy, but they can be guided in the right direction
because they have the crazy energy and all that.
I mean, look, they're all crazy to build their
own things and leave the nice paying jobs, right?
I mean, that's the general view of it. But I
think the biggest factor is, cool, you're delusional,
cool, you're saying all these things, but show
me your grit. Right can you say so one of the
founders right which invested in one of my partners
companies he was telling me the story of this
founder who would go to summits like two day
summits and he would be like. I don't have the
money to stay in a hotel i'm just gonna sleep
in the train station and the morning i'm just
gonna go to a mall or local whatever and shower
there and go he wasn't willing to pay hundred
pounds for the night. I like that. But that's
great, right? And he built the company to the
point where these guys, I think by spending like,
I think 150k or something, built their own deep
tech technology and the company was worth like
20 million at that point. But he was like, I'm
going to sleep on the sofa. I'm going to sleep
on the stations. I'm going to figure out a way.
So the biggest thing for me is cool you're saying
to me you're passionate you're saying to me delusion
show me what you can do right don't. think of
an idea and say you have all this, this and this
and ask for money. Right. I was, I was at an
event at an Antler around yesterday and you know,
this founder was like, Hey, I've built this tech.
I, I want to, you know, investment I'm raising.
First of all, he said, I'm raising 15 ,000 pounds.
I was like, okay, interesting. A very low amount.
I was like, how much have you self invested?
He's like, well, you know, I've been putting
in my time and I've built the software and I've
been working on the side and I was like, you're
negating the question. The initial, whatever
amount needs to come from you, the investor needs
to see you are all in as an investor. I want
to see, have you put in your blood, sweat and
tears and 15 ,000 should, I mean, I'm talking
UK, US, not that it's not a big amount, but this
should be the amount that should be coming from
you directly. This should be the amount that's
coming from maybe friends and family, but you
you've been able to facilitate this initial part.
This is when the investor season goes, okay,
he's put in what he can and now he's coming to
me to scale, which is I think one of the mistakes
founders make, right? That they go to investors
too early and some, you know, US guys, maybe
they'll back it just because, you know, they're
crazy. But like for the fund itself, right? I
put 170 grand into three companies. I'm committing
a hundred grand into the fund and then the setup
of the fund is 40 grand. So after I've deployed
all this capital, my bank account is going to
be left at like two or three grand. And that's,
you know, I've built all this at my age, and
now I'm again going all in. But the LPs can see
that they're like, he's all in. For me, that's
the only way, right? You show to the LPs, you
are all in. So if you want to talk to talk about
craziness and delusion, show me you're also able
to walk it. And then I'll try and guide you.
Okay, I see you're all in, you're not all talk.
Now let's try and see how we can focus on certain
parts. And you know, it's all about moving the
lens in and out, right? Okay. You've got this
wider vision. What does step one look like? What
does materialization look like? What does commercialization
looks like? Who are your partners? Who are you
channeling into? And getting that done is not
hard. Any sort of good investor who's coming
in and you as a founder should be able to figure
out. If you're bringing an investor early doors
that needs to, needs to, needs to be strategic,
how are they adding value more than cash? Which
is our biggest thing when we enter in sort of
as a venture studio, since our model, you know,
when we invest up to 200 grand in the early stage,
it's tech for equity, sales for equity. So in
the super early stage, cash is not as valuable.
Cash will in some cases slow you down more than
resources and partnerships and entries and that
kind of stuff. Is that being enabled if no, maybe
that 50 grand check that you're getting isn't
that useful? Because I see a lot of people and
I mean a lot of people defense and what I normally
realize is that if they're just asking for money,
just walk away. Yeah, I'm just I'm just trying
to raise. OK, what have you done? I'm just trying
to raise and then I'm going to start building.
Well, hold on. It doesn't work like that. Yeah.
because it's not expensive to build unless you're
building, I don't know, some type of factory
somewhere in the remote place. You actually don't
need money to get started. You should get started
in the first place. And one thing I realized
was in the beginning of the events, we were doing
open mic pitching and the criteria was accessible
to everyone. But I soon realized that unless
they have an MVP bill and the website, they're
not going to be able to articulate themselves
well enough on stage to raise any investment.
Oh, I just want to do a food delivery app for
pets. OK, what have you done? Zero. That's a
crazy idea. That's like a conversation to have
in a pub, not something you go and talk about
in the past year. That's a one -to -preneur.
That's not an excellent entrepreneur. Exactly.
But if you come up and say, actually, I've done
the market research, I've started building the
MVP, or I have an MVP build, and this is what
the website looks like, well, okay, there might
be something there. Then you can justify, I need
money to build the next stage, or I need money
to go out to the market, or I need money to buy
some product. Absolutely. And that initial money
needs to... I'm a big believer that institutional
investors in general anyways or you know the
bigger tickets shouldn't be for the generic pre
-seed. I mean even though our venture studios
pre -seed we almost look at like a lake pre -seed
on the cusp of seed stage in the sense that we
want to see the initial funding the initial money
you've been able to put down at least 50 grand
from yourself you built something. where you've
got a pipeline or an LOI agreed where someone
is willing to pay you. I think getting to that
place where you validated supply and demand,
built something, even if it's like a part of
the MVP and have self invested or done a friends
and family rounds, this should be the most minimum
criteria before you even start looking at any
investors. Like if you haven't done that, do
not look at investors. You're wasting your time
and their time because then they're going to
start leading you as well. They're going to say,
Let's chat back in three months and then you're
off the idea of like okay let me get the money
and it doesn't work and then you. Fundraising
is not easy. Fundraising is a full -time job,
right? So if you as a CEO in the super early
stage, a CEO in the early stage is chief everything
officer, right? And if you're not doing that
part of being building and financials and commercials
and talking and logistics, and you start just
focusing on fundraising, you're significantly
slowing down your growth. And that's the reason.
So when Carter did this publish last year, they
showed that Ever sort of going from pre -seed
to seed now takes 2 .2 years and the graduation
of startups who can make it from pre -seed to
seed have fallen from 38 % which they used to
be pre -COVID to now 26%. So it's becoming more
and more harder because part of the reason is
they're going too early, they're not ready, they're
not building to a significant amount, they're
burning the money on sort of the wrong things
and all of these things are becoming hindrances.
Figure out. Very simply have i validated demand
what i'm building is someone gonna pay for it
okay let me get a proof of that awesome you know
i'm ricardo i'm building a banking app you're
a banking customer. Are you gonna pay for it
perfect can you write me an ally which i can
take to someone to show that you're gonna pay
for it amazing now let me build something okay
i put in some money. Ricardo part two, you're
also my brother. I just need five grand. I've
put in my five grand. Can you give me that five
grand? Because friends and family are the people
who are going to trust you outside of technology,
right? Okay. Now let me piece this thing together.
Okay. Now Ricardo part three investor. Okay.
Now Ricardo built this tech and here's a demo
of what this does. Here's what the rate money
I raised. Here's a proof of LOI that there is
demand for on building. Now can I get the hundred
grand from you? Okay. I'm going to play devil's
advocate. Yeah, absolutely. Do you think because
I know in the UK the amount you can raise is
significantly lower than it would raise in other
markets, right? Yeah. Do you think that you can
skip that process as long as you have enough
money? In the sense that... Let's say you have
a UK based startup and they have 250k raised
versus a US based startup. But they don't follow
their process in the US, but they follow the
process in the UK. Do you think the US one will
still be successful regardless of that or not
so much? See, it depends. I think the US market,
the biggest thing is they just have heaps and
heaps of cash. So it's easier to raise in the
US, but it's also more competitive. So what do
I mean by that? there are much more people who
have the propensity to put in a 50 grand check
in the US, but there's much more startups who
are competing for it. So there might be, you
know, in the UK, in your local area, 10 people
who can put in a 50k check, but there's also
only 500 startups competing for that. Whereas
in the US, there might be 100 people, but rather
than 500 startups now, there might be actually
50 ,000 startups who are competing for those,
you know, 100, 200 people who can put in that
check. So again, it depends. The uks market is
very risk of us because they have bigger more
propensity to pay they have that appetite but
i think that should still be the model you follow
because no one has ever said. Oh wow you're actually
too far ahead like i don't like you made so much
progress you don't know investors ever gonna
sit and say. Man, you've made so much progress
that's going to turn me off. Like, you know,
I would love to get a more progress startup at
a lower valuation. Like that's my wet dream.
Like, you know what I mean? Like you go to every,
like this right now is the investor's market
in the sense that startups are still building
as much, but market has crashed, the valuations
have come down. That means I'm getting to pay
lower price for as good of a company. Great.
Investors will always, always like that. So,
you know, never go to an investor with the expectation
he's going to like if I'm further behind. That's
never the case. So I would still urge them and
give them that same advice. But in the US, you
might be a bit more likely someone might go for
you just because they know you. But then the
thing also is the reason you see all these US
guys, they've been able to raise big checks with
nothing in. The reason isn't that. The reason
a lot of times, either they're executive founders,
in the sense they were past VPs or MDs at Google,
Metta, Microsoft. And part of the reason these
investors have come in is because of their network.
So if I know you've been at Google for 20 years
and now you're raising a small round, I know
you'll at least give me two, three X back because
I know your network itself can put in the money.
Right. The way you work exactly like you're so
well connected in the Bay Area, especially if
you're there. Right. And then the second thing
that, you know, risk taking is promoted at a
very early age. Most people there, especially
on the entrepreneurial side, they start building
companies at 15, 16, 17. So by the time they
get to mid twenties, late twenties, thirties,
they're like, actually I've already exited the
company. I was on a board of the company. In
the UK, it's really looked down upon if you join,
you know, if you're like a MD or a high level
VP, if you join a board of a startup, people
are like, dude, what are you doing? Whereas in
the US, it's encouraged. So these guys already
have experience being on board members, being
advisors, you know, curriculums at universities,
like universities run paid accelerators. Like
I've heard of NYU, you know, Penn State, Texas
State, because I'm spending so much time in the
US and they're like, yeah, I ran my startup at,
you know, university I had a 10 grand check from
the uni itself I built this this and this I exited
out to this I'm like this is amazing we need
this in the UK right otherwise how are we gonna
progress so it's a very different mindset but
again still go back to having progress is always
a good thing so okay tons of questions what do
you think we should change in UK overall How
long do you have? I know there's quite a lot
of stuff, but I was just in this lecture with
the former chancellor, Philip Hamlin, and he
was saying, we keep on losing companies to the
US market and they get series A's and then they
were like, oh, should we go to the US? And then
they normally go to the US because it's the market's
completely different. They can get bigger checks.
Investors are more willing to take gambles and
all that. What should we change here in the UK
from your perspective? And I was actually with
Philippine in House of Lords and a similar sort
of conversation came up and I think the biggest
thing is we need to change the core and that's
in two ways. First thing is promoting risk -taking
mentality and I think this starts with the curriculum
UK has. No one talks about entrepreneurship.
I moved to the UK when I was 10, so in year five,
so I know from where it takes, right? No one
talks about entrepreneurship no one talks about
you know what it takes to build companies to
raise this needs to get integrated from secondary
school at least where we're talking about innovation
driving innovation where we're bringing in entrepreneurs
who have made it right and rather than you know
people would always bring police officers and
doctors and your your traditional lawyers and
teachers which are great but not everyone wants
to become that. Let's start bringing in the guys
who have been there and done and built companies
that share their stories. Let me just interject
here. Isn't an entrepreneur by nature really,
really disruptive in class? Yeah. Because I remember
being, you know, as I was growing up, I was always
asking tons of questions. Yeah. What about this?
What about that? It's like, just shut up, listen,
memorize and then put it all in the text. Yeah.
Right. So is it still the same case? Yeah, no.
I mean, innovation by its core is disruptive.
You know, no one innovates by following something
in a straight line. You have to fall out of line
and, you know, have that curious mentality of
we've always been doing it. You know one plus
one equal to what about but zero plus one also
equals two, right? But then school is failing
massively because then it's it's it's guiding
you zero plus two by the way if anyone takes
up that way Yeah, but but then school is guiding
you towards a path that might not be there for
you in the first place. Yeah Well, hence why
I said this needs to get integrated very early
on and teachers and the overall curriculum needs
to adapt in the way that we are no longer in
a position where this traditional route, which
has been happening for the last 150, 200 years,
is the only route. This has now changed into
something else. We now need to be open to see
how we can explore this other route for the up
and coming kids. If we don't wanna lose everything
to the u .s. and to the middle east don't get
to the point no one's gonna build anything in
the u .k. cuz i'll just say. What's the point
no one's gonna back me anyways i should just
go to u .s. and we're gonna lose every sort of
talent that we have what we're already seeing
that massively right i'm moving my holding corp
to divide so but that's not the weather yeah
just like the but no it's about that part one
like right we need to be to start from super
super early stage. And then second thing is incentives.
And this is in two parts. The first part is the
likes of SEIS programs, the likes of innovation
programs, subsidies, where more money is being
pulled in. But also a big one is pension funds.
So in the US, I think the statistic is 64 % of
pension money comes down to the venture route.
So it goes from venture, private equity, so and
so. all these sort of funnels and ultimately
venture can then pull it down to startups. In
the UK, that amount is only 10%. It's a massive,
massive, and UK pension funds, some of the ones
that operate here are huge. A couple of them
are bigger than the US as well. So now you look
at... Right, okay, that's five times less than
the US and then the overall market is ten times
less than the US We are deploying fifty times
less capital than the US and then we say I wonder
why they go to the US Well, if there's fifty
times less money available, why wouldn't I move
there? Right and then and then the third things
are incentives right so you know places like
delaware which offer low tax and opportunities
places in india like gift city right place in
dubai place in portugal are you portuguese should
know that so there's incentive for someone to
go okay if i build i'm not gonna have to worry
about. in the early doors losing everything I
build because that's another big worry that I'm
already bootstrapped. I'm, you know, very hand
to mouth in this situation. And then I'm like
having to give more to the government. No heck,
I don't want to do that. Right. So I think it
starts early doors with the mentality and the
integration in the education system, promoting
that risk taking behavior and then creating an
economy which is able to bring in foreign direct
investment and people want to invest in this
market because the taxes are low, the stability
is there. And then the third thing is is opening
up those pensions and those big pots where money
can start to funnel down into these practices.
And I think if we do that, we will be able to
retain a lot of our talent and people will be,
again, interested in moving back into the UK.
Because ultimately, startups just need three
things, right? They need the right resources
in order to be able to build, whether that's
working spaces, developments, teams, centers.
U .K. kind of has that can do a bit better. A
second thing is mentors, which I think U .K.
has very, very well off. And then the third thing
is capital, right? And which I think U .K. has
the worst off. So if we can improve one, the
number one, you know, the resource a bit more
in terms of integrating everything, innovate
U .K. programs, grants, SEIS, subsidies, you
know, running this university accelerators. I
don't think we. I mean, having more advisors
are always great, but I think we're doing well.
But this bigger capital chunk, if we can improve
that and get it to the way we have more funds
building in the UK, it will be great. And to
give you another example, right? So the British
bank, so they do some funds of funds investment.
By the way, the person who was there was great.
So no direct shots towards them. But I told them,
look, I'm building this fund. I want fund of
funds. And they loved the idea of what I was
building with our inventors. They're like, we're
in awesome. Uh, they're like, by the way, it's
going to take 18 months. And I was like, dude,
yeah. I was like, I can't wait 18 months to do
my first clothes. Like I'm halfway through my
first clothes in eight weeks. I'm not going to
wait 18 months. So the process is so slow. Like
funds are funds usually should be able to make.
18 months is a long time well it's the bureaucracy
right they were like by the time we get to the
papers we do check one check you know in terms
of checking uh step one step two we're bringing
the partners a few calls and you know all the
other pipeline and they're not 18 months nothing
in business 18 months you completely change directions
exactly So they want me to wait 18 months to
do my first clothes. Cause they said they can
only be on the first clothes because they're
right there on LPA. And I was like, that's just
not possible. So they can't come in on a later
round. They could, they said, well, if you start
looking at fun too. And I was like, fun one isn't
done. Fun one will take like four or five years.
So it's just, you know, that, that very elongated
mentality of like, so if we can cut that down
and bring in more opportunity, I think, I think
UK will do really well. It's interesting. I was
just reading up that they're going to build a
new tunnel across the Thames and the amount of
paperwork they had to file just to get that approved.
It's absolutely crazy. We need to speed up the
process. I think in the US it's a lot quicker
to get stuff done. But if you go anywhere else
in Europe, it's even worse. I know a lot of people
from Europe saying or from continental Europe,
if that makes sense. They actually want to move
to the UK because you guys move a lot quicker
than anywhere else in Europe. That's the business
here. I can still get investment. I can still
open a company. It's a complicated process, but
yeah, it still needs to improve a lot. No, by
all means. I mean, London is still Europe's largest
hub for venture. It's falling down internationally.
There was a point where London was number three
globally, and I think it's much lower now. I
think number six or seven. It used to be number
two in unicorns produced. Now it's number four.
The UK used to be number two in unicorns produced.
Now it's number four. Right now it's US 1, China
2, India 3, and UK 4. I mean, it's still great,
but we're seeing it slowly slip down. And we
want to be seeing the opposite. So if we want
to retain that, if we don't want, I mean... Not
to say there's anything bad, but continental
Europe, we don't want to be comparing for the
likes of Cyprus and Lithuania and Bulgaria. Not
to say there's anything bad with those countries,
but the reason we were the hub of capitalism
for like a hundred years and did so well was
because we had these reinstated policies. So
we now don't want to be looking down and saying,
well, at least we're doing better than them.
that you're never going to grow that way. You
want to see, okay, who's doing better than me?
What can I take from them? But that should be
the mindset of the way we go about things. It's
pretty impressive to think about it just from
a numbers perspective, because the US has about
300 million people you would think. Then you
have China, India, they literally more than half
of the world population, right? And then you
have the UK in the fourth place. So it's not
that bad considering the number of people we
have in the country. It should be much higher.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just, you know, U .S.
has dominated that badly. Like, you know, I think
in the last 15 years, U .K. has about 90 unicorns
and U .S. has had about 1 ,100. Well, yeah. Yeah.
So when you start sort of piecing things together,
you actually go, there is a bit of a difference.
Let me ask you something, because you actually
have this information. If you were to build a
company in India. Would it be as straightforward
as building a company in the U .S. or in the
U .K.? Because I know India is a combination
of multiple cultures and multiple, I guess, mini
-states, if I can call it that. Yeah, of course.
So would it still... It will make sense to launch
a company. It will be as easy as launching in
the UK. Yeah, it's actually very easy to launch
in India now. I mean, the government has given
massive initiatives. You have an idea, you apply
to the government board of India, you register
your company, you have your idea. And there's
a lot of SEBI funds, which is India's type 1,
type 2, type 3. So India's made it super, super
easy. I mean, don't get me wrong. It's super
easy to start a company in the UK. UK it's actually
easier to open a company than US is. I think
US has still some bureaucratic challenges. I
can open up a company in the next one hour, you
know, pay £40 on gov .uk and have, and more Ricardo
limited, right? And that's that. So I think.
That's not the challenge, it's what comes after
that. It's the challenge of actually building,
ideating, figuring out competition, going meeting
like -minded individuals, scale, capital, partnerships.
That's where the challenge is. I think pressing
the go button is not that difficult and it doesn't
make that much of a difference. I mean, in the
U .S. it might take two weeks, UK fine, you can
do it in one to two days. I think India takes
about five days. Not a massive difference on
a macro scale, but it's what comes after that
that makes all the difference. Okay. But would
you let's say you're in India, would you advise
someone to actually move to get to launch a company
or say it's just stay there because it's a growing
market. I think it depends on what you've done
and I'm being very diplomatic with the answer.
I know, but I think it really depends on what
you're building, right? I think there is not
a necessity anymore. Like from, from, you know,
what things used to be 10 years ago. where it
was like, Oh no, man, dude, you got to, you know,
if you're building and you're at that series,
a level, you need to go now. I'm like, not really.
Like there's tons of capital funds. You know,
I think India has over 5 ,000 syndicates, angel
funds, and VCs that are there now. So if you
can't raise from that, I mean, why are you going
to raise in the UK? You know, when I say and
tell people to move is after they've validated
a market, they know there's a fit. They've got
a client from there and they want to expand.
That's when you want to be sort of doing global
expansion. But on day one, why, right? Maybe
in certain industries, it would make sense. Like
UK has a pretty strong fintech sector and certain
parts of medtech sectors, where fine, if you're
building very specialized within that and you
have a great partnerships from the likes of Oxford
or AstraZeneca or something like that, cool,
it makes sense. But I wouldn't per se be like
you would be massively ahead if you build in
the UK or ahead at all. I think you can do super,
super well. I think India is a massive consumer
market. You can build a very cheaply there. You
know, what a lot of people tend to do is build
as a UK company and get the inflows and pounds,
but actually have the backend all set up in India.
So, you know, the cost is in rupees. And then,
you know, leverage that as a, as an arbitrage.
So that I would recommend, um, you know, if they
want to do, and then whenever they sort of grow
and expand into a U S market, but yeah, I, I
wouldn't per se UK will do you massively well
instead of India now. What about the menu list?
I think that's the right place to move early
stage. I think. Middle East is growing super,
super well. And I was with, you know, the, the,
the Highness Sheikh Maktoum in, in, in, in Dubai,
not too long ago in Abu Dhabi, sorry. And they're,
they're putting in massive, massive incentives.
The biggest incentive of the Middle East compared
to anyone else right now, it's, it's fairly liquid.
So if you are well known, you're well connected,
you have a good idea and you're able to build
a good relationship, money will not be a problem.
But what the problem there right now is, is infrastructure.
There's not that many incubators. There's not
that many partners, advisors, ecosystem. So ultimately,
whatever you build, you will have to take it
back out. You will then have to do the US UK
India story anyways. But they've like the way
they have been growing, you know, I mean, they
turned a desert into a, you know, this gigantic
city in like 30 years. All right, you know what
US took 200 years, what UK took 300 years, what
India took 80 years, these guys have done in
30. So we're seeing that speed of growth and
that speed and that opportunity definitely is
there. So I think you should definitely consider
it from a strategic point of view and make it.
Piece of the play given obviously what you're
building makes sense there But again, it depends
on what you're building and what the viability
is because like ultimately cash isn't everything
you can have You know 10 million in cash, but
if you don't know how to deploy it that 10 million
is gonna go nowhere Right, you know There's companies
who go to 10 15 million 20 even 100 million and
then they just come down a couple years later
because they don't know how to sustain it So
money isn't the only part of the equation. It's
a big part of the equation But how does it fit
well with the other stuff around there? Interesting.
And well, as we're kind of nearing the end of
the podcast, where can people find you next?
So it takes a couple of weeks for us to go live.
So, you know, four weeks after this, where are
you going to be? In four weeks time, I'll be
in LA, and then San Francisco, and then Berlin,
and then Santa Monica, and then Dusseldorf, and
then back into the UK before going in there.
Yeah. Because it's a lot of travel. It's a lot
of travel. So catch me on an airport but no I
think I think the best way is you know if you're
a startup um who's you know access to funding
I mean apply onto the website apply you know
what's the website uh well if you're a so for
arian ventures um you know we're still fundraising
to complete the fund but hopefully that gets
up and going by september time so that's www
.arianventures .vc um We're looking at it but
not too much looking at stars right now as we've
got a pipeline and unless we see something completely
ludicrous probably not gonna add it onto the
pipeline now but that's the are in ventures one
but the venture studio and the syndicate arm
is. Get some ventures calm and get out of the
calm so you can go on to the website and apply
you know. message one of the team members. So
probably best to message, you know, either my
CTO or one of the associates or IRs or BD guys,
because, you know, I get like a hundred messages,
you know, a day. So if you want replies and one
month delays, then probably go for me. I'll try
my best. But I think the best way to reach out
is go through a partnered network, go through
a warm network, right? I never recommend someone
to just open and be like, Hey, by the way, money
you know it's like i saw you know money cool
so it's a go through a warm network in the sense
that they know i know you if they can sell to
you they can be impressed by you and then you
do an introduction i'm much more likely to respond
i mean even then i'll still say ricardo let me
see the deck let me see if it makes sense but
i'm much more likely to to go because you're
a trusted source so i would say find your trusted
source build that and then go from there. Not
everything has a rush. Some things have to be
built on quality. People don't get that. They
always think, oh, you know, a lot of investors
can connect. I'm like, no, no, the process. I
need to filter you out. Exactly. Before I introduce
you and then you can still get a yes or no. Exactly.
Otherwise, you'll get filtered out, right? Exactly.
You want to expect the other person's time. You
also want to be respectful of your own time.
Exactly. So it's like, okay, let me see if he
actually matches up. Yeah, exactly. You know,
because if you just start sending me everything,
I'm like, oh, this dude. And I have done that,
right? You know, the guys I met initially, you
know, in some of the events, cool dudes, whatever,
but just started sending me deals every day,
randomly started putting me in group chats and
I just blocked them. I don't have time. Like,
you know, you can't just stop. You have to value
my time at the end of the day. But no. Build
true value, build true connections. Go through
a warm network is the best way to get intros.
Emile, thank you so much for your time. It's
been a pleasure. It's been a pleasure. Thank
you very much. The podcast is also sponsored
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