WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.859 Welcome to the Innovation Conversation, a podcast 00:00:02.859 --> 00:00:05.419 about innovators, both in business and real life. 00:00:05.879 --> 00:00:08.380 Hosted by myself, Ricardo Rescual and Harry McCona. 00:00:08.480 --> 00:00:11.699 This podcast is also sponsored by ODEV Tech. 00:00:12.439 --> 00:00:14.640 ODEV Tech is your premier software development 00:00:14.640 --> 00:00:18.019 partner. Make sure you check them out at odev 00:00:18.019 --> 00:00:22.399 .tech. The podcast is also sponsored by Notion 00:00:22.399 --> 00:00:25.359 .so. Notion is offering six months for free for 00:00:25.359 --> 00:00:27.839 new users. Make sure you check out our website, 00:00:28.059 --> 00:00:30.579 thestoreofevents .co .uk to read in the software. 00:00:30.879 --> 00:00:33.000 Hi, and welcome to another episode of the Innovation 00:00:33.000 --> 00:00:35.240 Conversation. Today we are joined by Anmong Go. 00:00:35.439 --> 00:00:38.149 Anmong, welcome to the podcast now. Face to face. 00:00:38.490 --> 00:00:40.729 No, I'm super, super glad, especially given this 00:00:40.729 --> 00:00:43.189 is the first in -person podcast. I'm really honored 00:00:43.189 --> 00:00:45.109 to join you here, Ricardo. It's my pleasure. 00:00:45.170 --> 00:00:46.689 It's my pleasure. So thank you. Thank you so 00:00:46.689 --> 00:00:48.810 much for agreeing to this and the crazy background 00:00:48.810 --> 00:00:51.649 we have. Hope the guys can appreciate the lava 00:00:51.649 --> 00:00:53.590 lamp. It's going to start warming up. So it's 00:00:53.590 --> 00:00:56.090 going to look pretty cool. I know a lot has been 00:00:56.090 --> 00:00:57.950 happening in your life since we first spoke. 00:00:58.609 --> 00:01:00.170 So tell us all about it. I know you've been to 00:01:00.170 --> 00:01:02.929 a lot of conferences. I know you've been to Nocci. 00:01:03.320 --> 00:01:05.260 you know, not stop traveling around the world. 00:01:05.519 --> 00:01:07.620 Your startups are also taking off massively and 00:01:07.620 --> 00:01:10.280 you also have a fun nose. Yeah. Tell us all about 00:01:10.280 --> 00:01:12.379 that. No, thank you. Yeah. So big changes. I 00:01:12.379 --> 00:01:15.239 think the biggest one you touched upon is the 00:01:15.239 --> 00:01:19.299 fun now. So I'm currently on track to be the 00:01:19.299 --> 00:01:21.879 youngest ever fund manager with the Nate Figure 00:01:21.879 --> 00:01:24.719 Fund in the world. So if I sort of do the first 00:01:24.719 --> 00:01:27.299 close, Forbes came and knocked on the door. It 00:01:27.299 --> 00:01:29.719 was like, hey, by the way, you've been nominated 00:01:29.719 --> 00:01:32.180 for Forbes 30 in the 30, and this is sort of 00:01:32.180 --> 00:01:36.159 the process. And I'm hoping if I nail the first 00:01:36.159 --> 00:01:38.120 close of the fund, which I want to do by July. 00:01:39.080 --> 00:01:42.400 I will get there but yeah essentially the fund 00:01:42.400 --> 00:01:45.519 is called Arian Ventures and the thesis of the 00:01:45.519 --> 00:01:48.219 fund is we are backing Indian origin founders 00:01:48.219 --> 00:01:51.939 in UK and US. Now by no means this is a positive 00:01:51.939 --> 00:01:54.719 discrimination play because you know Indian founders 00:01:54.719 --> 00:01:57.819 tend to do really well anyways so The focus is 00:01:57.819 --> 00:02:00.260 a bit more on the statistics and now when you 00:02:00.260 --> 00:02:01.939 look at the general statistics of the Indian 00:02:01.939 --> 00:02:04.719 diaspora in the West, you realize they're number 00:02:04.719 --> 00:02:07.060 one in education rates, they're number one most 00:02:07.060 --> 00:02:08.620 real estate owned, they have one of the lowest 00:02:08.620 --> 00:02:11.000 crime rates. That's as a general group. And then 00:02:11.000 --> 00:02:13.319 when you start digging into venture, you realize 00:02:13.319 --> 00:02:16.020 Indian origin founders are Four times more likely 00:02:16.020 --> 00:02:18.659 to result in a unicorn in the UK and eight times 00:02:18.659 --> 00:02:21.060 more likely to result in a unicorn in the US 00:02:21.060 --> 00:02:23.979 and last year alone they resulted in almost three 00:02:23.979 --> 00:02:26.560 hundred billion in startup value creation outside 00:02:26.560 --> 00:02:29.319 of India. Which is more than any other diaspora 00:02:29.319 --> 00:02:32.360 out there so it logically made sense for me as 00:02:32.360 --> 00:02:34.599 a British Indian who's been part of this diaspora 00:02:34.599 --> 00:02:37.599 has been growing up there to make this sort of 00:02:37.599 --> 00:02:39.960 niche because ultimately. Everyone is backing 00:02:39.960 --> 00:02:42.199 indians in india there's no one backing them 00:02:42.199 --> 00:02:45.199 outside of india so this is my sort of usb right 00:02:45.199 --> 00:02:48.860 to when lps ask you why this thesis and why you 00:02:48.860 --> 00:02:51.219 obviously i had my why this thesis because of 00:02:51.219 --> 00:02:53.939 the stuff but why me is because. Indians in India 00:02:53.939 --> 00:02:55.740 can't do what I'm doing because they don't have 00:02:55.740 --> 00:02:58.379 the exposure. They don't know what it is to sort 00:02:58.379 --> 00:03:01.319 of be a first or second gen growing up in this 00:03:01.319 --> 00:03:04.539 country. That's a slightly different sort of 00:03:04.539 --> 00:03:06.900 experience. So I have now captured both worlds. 00:03:07.300 --> 00:03:09.520 I initially spent my first 10 years of my life 00:03:09.520 --> 00:03:11.719 growing up in India, but then the last 15 years 00:03:11.719 --> 00:03:13.840 here, spending a decent bit of time in the US. 00:03:14.300 --> 00:03:17.219 So that's culminated into this fund. We're about 00:03:17.219 --> 00:03:19.439 to do our first close. We've done 50 % of that 00:03:19.439 --> 00:03:22.500 already. So yeah, in the process of getting that 00:03:22.500 --> 00:03:25.400 through, deployed it to three companies already, 00:03:25.400 --> 00:03:28.000 and we have a pipeline of a few others brewing. 00:03:28.400 --> 00:03:30.419 So super, super excited with that one. Well, 00:03:30.580 --> 00:03:32.800 that's quite impressive what you're doing. Yeah, 00:03:32.840 --> 00:03:36.259 yeah, no, definitely. But hard, and that's why 00:03:36.259 --> 00:03:39.659 all the travels. So I'm currently averaging about 00:03:39.659 --> 00:03:42.710 10 to 12 flights a month. I think that's actually 00:03:42.710 --> 00:03:44.930 more than most airline people, to be honest. 00:03:45.030 --> 00:03:46.469 Especially long haul, because he did a lot of 00:03:46.469 --> 00:03:48.610 long haul as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's quite 00:03:48.610 --> 00:03:51.710 a lot. Yeah, exactly. But no, these events have 00:03:51.710 --> 00:03:53.509 been super, super interesting, especially, you 00:03:53.509 --> 00:03:56.729 know, the ones seeing in the US and in Middle 00:03:56.729 --> 00:03:59.469 East and in India and Europe. It's given me sort 00:03:59.469 --> 00:04:02.050 of a holistic picture of how things are moving 00:04:02.050 --> 00:04:04.189 in different locations and what I can sort of 00:04:04.189 --> 00:04:06.669 pick from one location to the other. And, you 00:04:06.669 --> 00:04:09.129 know, how I can sort of be the key connector, 00:04:09.129 --> 00:04:11.849 right? My role almost at this global scale has 00:04:11.849 --> 00:04:14.110 now become of this super connector when people 00:04:14.110 --> 00:04:15.889 are like, Hey, do you know anyone who's doing 00:04:15.889 --> 00:04:17.889 this? They're like, actually, yeah, I do. All 00:04:17.889 --> 00:04:20.160 right. I mean, what have been the differences 00:04:20.160 --> 00:04:22.019 you managed to find between all these different 00:04:22.019 --> 00:04:24.699 countries? Is there like, are people just focusing 00:04:24.699 --> 00:04:27.600 on AI just in US or actually can see that across 00:04:27.600 --> 00:04:30.199 the world? Is there any specific vertical that's 00:04:30.199 --> 00:04:32.480 growing a lot in one area, not the other one? 00:04:32.660 --> 00:04:35.899 I mean, what are your findings? I think AI now 00:04:35.899 --> 00:04:39.670 has almost turned into such a, you know, I would 00:04:39.670 --> 00:04:42.569 almost sort of take it back to the mid late 90s 00:04:42.569 --> 00:04:45.750 when internet sort of came. And I think AI is 00:04:45.750 --> 00:04:49.209 the internet of the 90s in the sense that there 00:04:49.209 --> 00:04:51.290 will no longer be the conversation of whether 00:04:51.290 --> 00:04:55.110 you're an AI company or not. It's more so AI 00:04:55.110 --> 00:04:57.529 has become the internet of now in the sense that 00:04:57.529 --> 00:05:00.310 if you're not using AI, you'd like not using 00:05:00.310 --> 00:05:04.529 the internet. It just becomes why. But the question 00:05:04.529 --> 00:05:07.540 more so is, are you AI first? Or are you using 00:05:07.540 --> 00:05:10.959 AI as enhancement? So in the sense that are you 00:05:10.959 --> 00:05:13.720 a medtech first or a fintech company, which is 00:05:13.720 --> 00:05:17.139 using AI as enrichment, or are you an AI first 00:05:17.139 --> 00:05:19.420 company where the whole transaction, the whole 00:05:19.420 --> 00:05:22.319 focus is AI itself, is the whole machine learning 00:05:22.319 --> 00:05:25.319 algorithm, in the sense you're a data then company. 00:05:25.839 --> 00:05:27.600 And on top of that, you're building your agentic 00:05:27.600 --> 00:05:30.819 models. So I think AI is now going to be the 00:05:30.819 --> 00:05:33.600 big thing and it's going to continue being more 00:05:33.600 --> 00:05:36.269 and more integratable. Most people now, they 00:05:36.269 --> 00:05:38.370 can't imagine their life without Chad GPT, right? 00:05:39.509 --> 00:05:41.350 Google's usage has gone down ever since Chad 00:05:41.350 --> 00:05:44.230 GPT came up. Everyone just, Chad GPT is everything. 00:05:44.509 --> 00:05:46.790 Even kids in school nowadays, right? I met my 00:05:46.790 --> 00:05:49.310 cousin the other day. She's six years old and 00:05:49.310 --> 00:05:52.009 she was using Chad GPT and I was like, yeah. 00:05:52.750 --> 00:05:55.790 She was talking about searching something up 00:05:55.790 --> 00:05:57.329 in the news and she didn't go to Google. She 00:05:57.329 --> 00:06:00.360 went to Chad GPT and I was like... Interesting 00:06:00.360 --> 00:06:02.860 coming back on the topic in terms of what trends 00:06:02.860 --> 00:06:05.180 I'm seeing. I think Eastern European and sort 00:06:05.180 --> 00:06:07.740 of general European trend as well. We're seeing 00:06:07.740 --> 00:06:10.720 movement towards energy and medtech. Part of 00:06:10.720 --> 00:06:14.240 the reason is we're expecting the war to come 00:06:14.240 --> 00:06:16.459 to a stop. And now a lot of the focus is going 00:06:16.459 --> 00:06:19.480 to go on that rebuilding rehabilitation on the 00:06:19.480 --> 00:06:21.800 medtech side, seeing a lot of bionics companies 00:06:21.800 --> 00:06:24.740 come out of Ukraine and Poland. And that is a 00:06:24.740 --> 00:06:26.379 massive, massive opportunity. So if you have 00:06:26.379 --> 00:06:29.180 a company there, you know, and you can get it. 00:06:28.990 --> 00:06:31.550 even like one government or private owned contract, 00:06:31.670 --> 00:06:33.529 I think that's going to be worth millions, because 00:06:33.529 --> 00:06:36.750 the estimated cost of rebuilding Ukraine and 00:06:36.750 --> 00:06:39.709 Russia has been put to about 100 billion. So, 00:06:39.709 --> 00:06:41.850 you know, getting a small slither of that pie 00:06:41.850 --> 00:06:44.449 is going to be huge. In the US, it's interesting. 00:06:44.850 --> 00:06:47.649 I mean, obviously Trump with Masasa from Japan, 00:06:47.709 --> 00:06:49.850 they've come through and built this $500 billion 00:06:49.850 --> 00:06:52.029 package that's going to be coming in and they 00:06:52.029 --> 00:06:55.110 want to do a lot more. for the U .S. built by 00:06:55.110 --> 00:06:57.209 the U .S. So we're seeing, you know, with these 00:06:57.209 --> 00:06:59.709 levies and tariffs come in, a lot of the stuff 00:06:59.709 --> 00:07:03.649 which made U .S. this hub of immigration and 00:07:03.649 --> 00:07:05.689 color for the world and coming in and putting 00:07:05.689 --> 00:07:08.269 it together, we're seeing slight detachment in 00:07:08.269 --> 00:07:10.470 that. For my last few conversations from a few 00:07:10.470 --> 00:07:12.829 family officers that I know there, it's been 00:07:12.829 --> 00:07:15.290 constantly being repeated that where are you 00:07:15.290 --> 00:07:19.750 building? Well, why not U .S.? So the focus is 00:07:19.750 --> 00:07:23.019 slightly Transitioning on to that and in terms 00:07:23.019 --> 00:07:26.240 of the UK the UK slightly falling behind which 00:07:26.240 --> 00:07:28.600 is slightly concerning me so the statistic last 00:07:28.600 --> 00:07:31.800 year was ten thousand millionaires left the UK 00:07:31.800 --> 00:07:34.879 which was the largest exodus of wealth leaving 00:07:34.879 --> 00:07:39.459 UK ever. So I think something like that now needs 00:07:39.459 --> 00:07:41.620 to change in the UK, partly in the government, 00:07:41.920 --> 00:07:44.579 where we need to bring in innovations back into 00:07:44.579 --> 00:07:47.180 the UK with the Innovate UK program also going 00:07:47.180 --> 00:07:50.920 on a halt. The SEIS, EIS bounds being lowered. 00:07:51.300 --> 00:07:54.259 I think the trend in the UK, unfortunately, is 00:07:54.259 --> 00:07:56.439 on the declining side of venture enthusiasm. 00:07:56.660 --> 00:07:59.000 So I think there needs to be some shift in the 00:07:59.000 --> 00:08:02.160 mindset. Dubai and all these locations, they're 00:08:02.160 --> 00:08:05.160 captivating on all of this. So with conferences 00:08:05.160 --> 00:08:08.779 like AIM, like LEAP. So I hope something like 00:08:08.779 --> 00:08:10.980 this comes back into the UK so we can see a better 00:08:10.980 --> 00:08:13.540 transition there. Interesting. And going back 00:08:13.540 --> 00:08:16.279 to your fund, what's the market telling you? 00:08:16.319 --> 00:08:18.459 Because you have great statistics behind you, 00:08:18.699 --> 00:08:19.980 right? We know for a fact there's actually quite 00:08:19.980 --> 00:08:22.660 a lot of Indian CEOs and a lot of massive companies. 00:08:23.139 --> 00:08:24.899 I'm thinking Google, I'm thinking Pepsi, I'm 00:08:24.899 --> 00:08:27.560 sure there's plenty more that I can't think of 00:08:27.560 --> 00:08:30.430 right now. What's the market telling you? Like 00:08:30.430 --> 00:08:32.110 what investors, LPs going back to you saying, 00:08:32.190 --> 00:08:33.970 you know what? Yeah, we're going to give you 00:08:33.970 --> 00:08:35.289 some money because it makes perfect sense to 00:08:35.289 --> 00:08:38.190 us. Yeah, no. I mean, you said Pepsi, Google, 00:08:38.809 --> 00:08:42.309 Microsoft, FedEx, you know. So actually, I think 00:08:42.309 --> 00:08:45.649 the statistic is 28 out of the Fortune 500 companies 00:08:45.649 --> 00:08:48.169 CEOs are of Indian origin. And the statistic 00:08:48.169 --> 00:08:53.490 is 31 or 32 percent of all C -suite positions 00:08:53.490 --> 00:08:57.409 in Fortune 500 and FTSE 250 companies. they have 00:08:57.409 --> 00:08:59.950 at least one Indian origin members on the board. 00:09:00.330 --> 00:09:03.230 So the LPs, I mean, most of them, they understand 00:09:03.230 --> 00:09:05.250 it. I think it's never been hard for me to sell 00:09:05.250 --> 00:09:08.929 the thesis where the difficulty is. You know 00:09:08.929 --> 00:09:11.490 is it sort of being a standalone player do you 00:09:11.490 --> 00:09:15.110 tube how young i am you know the the restrictions 00:09:15.110 --> 00:09:17.850 usually on that end but you know my track record 00:09:17.850 --> 00:09:20.629 is building well and you know because i was able 00:09:20.629 --> 00:09:23.309 to enter in positions like open the eyes father 00:09:23.309 --> 00:09:25.850 may i am and feel our portfolio as well through 00:09:25.850 --> 00:09:28.590 the venture studio arm and what we syndicated 00:09:28.590 --> 00:09:31.710 are now sitting at two three x in just two years 00:09:31.710 --> 00:09:35.129 time alone. That's not giving me the momentum 00:09:35.129 --> 00:09:38.529 to go up and speak to them but no i think. The 00:09:38.529 --> 00:09:41.090 statistics of how the Indian diaspora is doing 00:09:41.090 --> 00:09:44.250 overall. I mean, you know, there was a topic, 00:09:45.029 --> 00:09:46.990 there was a publisher, a published one came out 00:09:46.990 --> 00:09:49.549 in Telegraph last year, which said Indians in 00:09:49.549 --> 00:09:52.210 the UK now are in the most real estate, right? 00:09:52.870 --> 00:09:55.549 And that's comparative to any other diaspora, 00:09:55.750 --> 00:09:57.870 right? So, you know, I think English Scotsmen, 00:09:58.009 --> 00:10:00.940 Irishmen, I think they make up. You know i think 00:10:00.940 --> 00:10:03.240 it's thirty percent fifteen percent and so on 00:10:03.240 --> 00:10:05.480 and so forth but you're looking at three percent 00:10:05.480 --> 00:10:09.220 minority capturing most of the wealth now. So 00:10:09.220 --> 00:10:13.419 I think the data itself is showing that things 00:10:13.419 --> 00:10:16.879 are moving in a good way and especially now that 00:10:16.879 --> 00:10:19.539 you're seeing, especially in the US, you saw 00:10:19.539 --> 00:10:22.820 this massive generation of first generation immigrants 00:10:22.820 --> 00:10:25.200 who came in and these guys were all in Google 00:10:25.200 --> 00:10:28.320 and Microsoft and now their kids, they've had 00:10:28.320 --> 00:10:30.460 this opportunity of seeing their parents being 00:10:30.460 --> 00:10:34.070 ultra well connected. That's one thing the Indian 00:10:34.070 --> 00:10:36.389 diaspora does really well. It's very community 00:10:36.389 --> 00:10:39.289 -led, right? It's not very much like, you know, 00:10:39.289 --> 00:10:41.289 you're there, so whatever, but it's very much, 00:10:41.730 --> 00:10:43.970 okay, you're there, now bring me in. Now, I know 00:10:43.970 --> 00:10:46.149 you, okay, you connect with him. And just putting 00:10:46.149 --> 00:10:48.649 the pieces together, it's just we've not been 00:10:48.649 --> 00:10:51.129 the biggest ones of, you know, tooting our own 00:10:51.129 --> 00:10:53.690 horn, you know, which is a good thing. I mean, 00:10:53.690 --> 00:10:55.789 you don't want to be sort of just rowdy and shouting 00:10:55.789 --> 00:10:59.049 up everywhere. But now, the focus of the fund 00:10:59.049 --> 00:11:01.648 is just pooling that together because people... 00:11:01.639 --> 00:11:04.440 When you think of Indians in tech, everyone always 00:11:04.440 --> 00:11:07.200 has good things to say. Everyone thinks of the 00:11:07.200 --> 00:11:14.240 Satyas and the Rishi of Oak North and the Sundar 00:11:14.240 --> 00:11:17.139 Pichai and everyone. They already think of that, 00:11:17.240 --> 00:11:20.919 but it's what comes underneath and then goes 00:11:20.919 --> 00:11:24.639 total as an ecosystem. So yeah, now it's just 00:11:24.639 --> 00:11:26.320 pieces already there. It's just pulling them 00:11:26.320 --> 00:11:28.820 together. Why do you think that is though? What 00:11:28.820 --> 00:11:31.210 makes it? What makes people coming in for India 00:11:31.210 --> 00:11:35.909 so successful? I think there's a few reasons. 00:11:36.529 --> 00:11:38.789 I think one of the biggest ones is education. 00:11:39.570 --> 00:11:42.110 So if you look at the education statistics of 00:11:42.110 --> 00:11:46.049 Indians versus the general diaspora, 78 % of 00:11:46.049 --> 00:11:48.549 the Indian diaspora has a bachelor's degree versus 00:11:48.549 --> 00:11:50.730 the general diaspora in the UK and US averages, 00:11:50.730 --> 00:11:55.330 I think, 36%. And then the statistic is, again, 00:11:55.529 --> 00:11:58.669 first time immigrants who are coming in. 40 % 00:11:58.669 --> 00:12:02.389 of them have a master's, whereas, again, UK, 00:12:02.409 --> 00:12:06.850 US masters around sort of 4%. So the education 00:12:06.850 --> 00:12:10.730 attribute is a big part of it. I think, again, 00:12:10.850 --> 00:12:14.309 coming on board as an immigrant is the idea of 00:12:14.309 --> 00:12:16.870 wanting to do well in a country like UK, US. 00:12:17.049 --> 00:12:20.269 This is always sort of shown as that dream, that 00:12:20.269 --> 00:12:22.600 mentality of like... this is the place where 00:12:22.600 --> 00:12:24.600 you sort of truly make it. And I think that's 00:12:24.600 --> 00:12:27.480 just a general statistic that immigrants tend 00:12:27.480 --> 00:12:30.360 to perform a bit better due to coming from hardships 00:12:30.360 --> 00:12:33.259 and so on and so forth. And I think part of that 00:12:33.259 --> 00:12:35.659 is also the cultural community aspect that I 00:12:35.659 --> 00:12:38.100 mentioned as well, where they tend to stick together, 00:12:38.259 --> 00:12:41.240 gel together, help each other out and the values 00:12:41.240 --> 00:12:43.899 that are. the store upon them from a very young 00:12:43.899 --> 00:12:46.200 age and a combination of those things you know 00:12:46.200 --> 00:12:48.440 when you talk about you know you know it's a 00:12:48.440 --> 00:12:51.840 very passive community who sticks together who 00:12:51.840 --> 00:12:54.799 is well educated and you know in the west tends 00:12:54.799 --> 00:12:57.399 to do really well with assets in general you 00:12:57.399 --> 00:13:00.500 get this whole perfect recipe of education experience 00:13:00.500 --> 00:13:03.179 and togetherness and i don't think you need anything 00:13:03.179 --> 00:13:05.139 more than that right after they just need some 00:13:05.139 --> 00:13:07.320 guiding steps and holding hands and you can do 00:13:07.320 --> 00:13:10.470 pretty well. Very interesting. What about your 00:13:10.470 --> 00:13:12.330 own startups? I mean, the ones you invested in, 00:13:12.509 --> 00:13:15.009 how are they performing? Super well, which is 00:13:15.009 --> 00:13:18.129 I'm really going to knock on wood. I think since, 00:13:18.129 --> 00:13:19.690 you know, I've been doing this, you know, in 00:13:19.690 --> 00:13:21.970 terms of the advisory side about three years, 00:13:22.009 --> 00:13:24.820 investment side about two years. A lot of it's 00:13:24.820 --> 00:13:26.940 obviously paper money. So, you know, I can say 00:13:26.940 --> 00:13:28.659 the startup is one of the startups sitting at 00:13:28.659 --> 00:13:30.879 Atex and so on and so forth. So, you know, now 00:13:30.879 --> 00:13:33.659 the next thing is how do we move towards exit, 00:13:34.200 --> 00:13:37.080 which has been sort of my big focus because I 00:13:37.080 --> 00:13:39.539 was speaking to a gentleman, you know, who, again, 00:13:39.740 --> 00:13:42.220 can't say the name, unfortunately, but, you know, 00:13:42.279 --> 00:13:45.980 they did a round in 2021, which made them a unicorn. 00:13:46.179 --> 00:13:49.500 So their valuation was 1 .8 billion. Right and 00:13:49.500 --> 00:13:52.840 that was the peak of the time and at that point 00:13:52.840 --> 00:13:55.600 him himself with his sort of equity in the company 00:13:55.600 --> 00:13:58.820 and was worth around I think just shy of 250 00:13:58.820 --> 00:14:02.519 million right giving but now you know the company 00:14:02.519 --> 00:14:05.360 had some shareholder issues still still going 00:14:05.360 --> 00:14:07.799 around but you know he left the company and now 00:14:07.799 --> 00:14:09.509 he's like I don't know when I'm going to get 00:14:09.509 --> 00:14:13.649 my share. A few years back, this guy's seemingly 00:14:13.649 --> 00:14:16.070 worth a quarter of a billion and now he's starting 00:14:16.070 --> 00:14:18.129 his second company and raising the seed round. 00:14:20.330 --> 00:14:22.669 It's not a bad thing or anything. I'm still sure 00:14:22.669 --> 00:14:24.409 he's got a couple million in his bank account 00:14:24.409 --> 00:14:29.129 and he's not by any means in a bad shape. The 00:14:29.129 --> 00:14:31.509 focus very much is money is great in the sense 00:14:31.509 --> 00:14:33.610 of the valuation and multiplying, but how do 00:14:33.610 --> 00:14:36.289 we realize that valuation? My overall portfolio 00:14:36.289 --> 00:14:41.720 is now sitting at about 3X. in just about two 00:14:41.720 --> 00:14:46.799 years, which I'm pretty glad with. But so many 00:14:46.799 --> 00:14:49.519 things change when you start to exit, your net 00:14:49.519 --> 00:14:53.919 profits and what sort of result I can exit out 00:14:53.919 --> 00:14:56.679 of that. So yeah, the main focus is now let's 00:14:56.679 --> 00:14:59.399 start. Obviously, we're building, building, building, 00:14:59.460 --> 00:15:01.240 but let's look at the final picture of who we 00:15:01.240 --> 00:15:04.019 can exit it to. In the market, there's usually 00:15:04.019 --> 00:15:06.320 generally only three options to exit. And you 00:15:06.320 --> 00:15:08.600 obviously have your IPO, which is very, very 00:15:08.600 --> 00:15:11.779 rare out of the unicorns. So a billion dollar 00:15:11.779 --> 00:15:14.100 company who go to IPO. I think the statistic 00:15:14.100 --> 00:15:16.460 is like six point something percent. So there's 00:15:16.460 --> 00:15:18.740 a massive struggle. People think. you made it 00:15:18.740 --> 00:15:21.379 to unicorn you've done it no like the battle 00:15:21.379 --> 00:15:24.600 is is still there right so so you know ipa is 00:15:24.600 --> 00:15:27.580 very rare then the second most second least likely 00:15:27.580 --> 00:15:29.799 option there is secondaries the secondaries are 00:15:29.799 --> 00:15:32.259 heating up now so it's giving it especially in 00:15:32.259 --> 00:15:35.759 the fast consumer b2c plus fintech market as 00:15:35.759 --> 00:15:38.399 that's where the most users are so that's the 00:15:38.399 --> 00:15:41.279 second likely option where you know given that 00:15:41.279 --> 00:15:44.279 your company's now at sort of $250 billion around 00:15:44.279 --> 00:15:47.259 your series B, series C stage, you'd start to 00:15:47.259 --> 00:15:49.860 get some options to move out of that. And then 00:15:49.860 --> 00:15:52.519 the most likely is acquisitions, right? So we 00:15:52.519 --> 00:15:56.500 want to now work our way of who can be our exiting 00:15:56.500 --> 00:15:58.519 partners. We're growing, growing, growing. Let's 00:15:58.519 --> 00:16:00.720 start working back and back and back and see 00:16:00.720 --> 00:16:03.039 where we can meet in the middle where I'm like, 00:16:03.399 --> 00:16:06.059 this is 20X or this is 15X. I'm more than happy 00:16:06.059 --> 00:16:08.279 to take my money out at this stage. Cause you 00:16:08.279 --> 00:16:10.120 mostly invest in the early stage, right? Yeah. 00:16:10.250 --> 00:16:12.269 So through the Venture Studio, we tend to come 00:16:12.269 --> 00:16:14.669 in super early. The thesis of the Venture Studio 00:16:14.669 --> 00:16:17.370 is we come in pre -seed, most of the time we're 00:16:17.370 --> 00:16:22.529 fast co -checks. So the model is a matched equity 00:16:22.529 --> 00:16:24.809 investment in the sense that we'll put in a dollar 00:16:24.809 --> 00:16:26.830 if you're able to bring in a dollar. So we don't 00:16:26.830 --> 00:16:29.809 mind being co -leads, but yeah, we've put in 00:16:29.809 --> 00:16:33.669 small checks like 20. K, 50K, and these are at 00:16:33.669 --> 00:16:36.090 like valuations of 2 million, right? So we're 00:16:36.090 --> 00:16:37.889 going when there's pretty much nothing there. 00:16:37.889 --> 00:16:40.590 They've just got like a small MVP. So we're going 00:16:40.590 --> 00:16:44.049 super, super early stage. So the risk is immense. 00:16:44.529 --> 00:16:47.070 So we need to be very, very critical. And we 00:16:47.070 --> 00:16:50.250 are almost betting more on the founder than the 00:16:50.250 --> 00:16:53.009 idea itself. Does he or she have the ability 00:16:53.009 --> 00:16:58.309 to build and do what it takes? How can you pick 00:16:58.309 --> 00:17:06.279 the good founder though? Is there any defining 00:17:06.279 --> 00:17:08.900 trait that you'd normally pick up on or anything? 00:17:09.740 --> 00:17:11.319 You know what? They're probably going to be very 00:17:11.319 --> 00:17:15.259 successful. Yeah. I think the good thing about 00:17:15.259 --> 00:17:18.180 founders is the ones that really show is they 00:17:18.180 --> 00:17:19.859 either have some sort of background or they've 00:17:19.859 --> 00:17:21.980 done it before, but more so they have a clear 00:17:21.980 --> 00:17:25.059 aim of what they want to build. how they wanna 00:17:25.059 --> 00:17:27.740 build it and what they want your role to be a 00:17:27.740 --> 00:17:29.839 lot of times you know i'll get founders and they 00:17:29.839 --> 00:17:32.259 like. Money and i don't think that should be 00:17:32.259 --> 00:17:34.799 the conversation right and and that almost the 00:17:34.799 --> 00:17:36.940 test the investors away where someone who's coming 00:17:36.940 --> 00:17:39.289 with a ready plan of. Hey, look, this is what 00:17:39.289 --> 00:17:42.210 my last startup was. Whether failed or exited 00:17:42.210 --> 00:17:44.150 or whatever, this is what I learned from it. 00:17:44.150 --> 00:17:46.809 This is what I built. I did a few rounds. Now 00:17:46.809 --> 00:17:49.029 this is where I am with this current round. This 00:17:49.029 --> 00:17:51.049 is how I'm building. This is how I source the 00:17:51.049 --> 00:17:53.789 team together. Here's my pipeline. I want you 00:17:53.789 --> 00:17:56.190 to enable this, this and this. Like I've had 00:17:56.190 --> 00:17:59.230 guys get onto a call with me and write and say, 00:17:59.549 --> 00:18:01.549 tell me about your fund. Dude, no, you should 00:18:01.549 --> 00:18:03.589 do this. You know, if you want and if you're 00:18:03.589 --> 00:18:04.970 getting on a call with an investor and this is 00:18:04.970 --> 00:18:07.490 just a tip to everyone out there. Don't ask the 00:18:07.490 --> 00:18:10.750 investors of what do you do. You should already 00:18:10.750 --> 00:18:14.250 if you've gone ahead and booked a call most of 00:18:14.250 --> 00:18:16.430 the investors out there for 95 % anyway, definitely 00:18:16.430 --> 00:18:18.950 the ones who have been VCs and venture studios. 00:18:19.289 --> 00:18:21.410 They have their portfolios out there. They have 00:18:21.410 --> 00:18:24.190 exactly what criteria they look for. Of course 00:18:24.190 --> 00:18:26.109 you can ask them to expand a little bit, but 00:18:26.109 --> 00:18:28.950 don't just go in there with like a blank slate 00:18:28.950 --> 00:18:31.009 and hoping that they will be the guys, right? 00:18:31.150 --> 00:18:33.670 Go in there and say, Hey, I saw you invested 00:18:33.670 --> 00:18:37.319 in ABC. IO that's very similar to us do you think 00:18:37.319 --> 00:18:40.039 there's a potential there right take take something 00:18:40.039 --> 00:18:41.980 take some sort of initiative where investor goes 00:18:41.980 --> 00:18:44.619 he's done his research good he's a strong egg 00:18:44.619 --> 00:18:47.119 right he's gone and done his sort of background 00:18:47.119 --> 00:18:49.599 research so i think those founders are very clear 00:18:49.599 --> 00:18:51.940 cut from the early doors you know who have taken 00:18:51.940 --> 00:18:53.799 the initiative they've mapped out they know how 00:18:53.799 --> 00:18:55.319 they're going to build they have a team ready 00:18:55.319 --> 00:18:58.559 in place And again, a big indicator is also who 00:18:58.559 --> 00:19:00.559 have they been able to bring on board as advisors, 00:19:00.559 --> 00:19:04.619 right? Because those are almost your first non 00:19:04.619 --> 00:19:07.220 -cash investors, right? If you're getting ex 00:19:07.220 --> 00:19:10.099 -Google, ex -Netflix, ex -Facebook guys to come 00:19:10.099 --> 00:19:12.680 sit on your board, well, clearly you have something 00:19:12.680 --> 00:19:15.160 because these guys, you know, they're earning 00:19:15.160 --> 00:19:17.099 half a million at least, right? And in their 00:19:17.099 --> 00:19:19.559 jobs, why are they coming and giving you two, 00:19:19.579 --> 00:19:21.599 three hours a week? Well, there's a reason behind 00:19:21.599 --> 00:19:24.579 it, right? Whether or not you're sort of taking 00:19:24.579 --> 00:19:27.450 cash from them. that's an even better sell. But 00:19:27.450 --> 00:19:30.369 those are the early telltale indicators. And 00:19:30.369 --> 00:19:32.690 then it's very much assessing the company itself 00:19:32.690 --> 00:19:35.529 in terms of where is the idea, where is the market, 00:19:35.609 --> 00:19:38.329 what is the feasibility, who the competition 00:19:38.329 --> 00:19:40.609 is, what the competition is doing. The founders 00:19:40.609 --> 00:19:44.369 who tend to do well and we bet on, the big difference 00:19:44.369 --> 00:19:47.029 is they do the little things very, very well. 00:19:47.289 --> 00:19:49.230 And these little things of knowing the data, 00:19:49.410 --> 00:19:51.250 knowing the differences, knowing how the market 00:19:51.250 --> 00:19:54.230 changes, knowing what they want from us, knowing 00:19:54.230 --> 00:19:57.230 what the next five steps are gonna be. This is 00:19:57.230 --> 00:19:59.750 what the real different is between a gung -ho 00:19:59.750 --> 00:20:02.130 founder who's just flailing his arms and is trying 00:20:02.130 --> 00:20:05.049 to be the tech bro versus a founder who's gonna 00:20:05.049 --> 00:20:08.309 do well. What do you think when they pivot because 00:20:08.309 --> 00:20:10.609 most early very early stage startups tend to 00:20:10.609 --> 00:20:13.789 pivot. Do you panic as an investor or you actually 00:20:13.789 --> 00:20:16.809 think that's part of the process and you just 00:20:16.809 --> 00:20:18.809 kind of sit back and see you know I believe in 00:20:18.809 --> 00:20:21.009 them let's see what they come up with. I think 00:20:21.009 --> 00:20:29.029 look pivoting is part of the journey. I can't 00:20:29.029 --> 00:20:31.049 think of a single startup that's gone from a 00:20:31.049 --> 00:20:34.650 zero to a hundred without pivoting. Take Google, 00:20:34.809 --> 00:20:40.410 for example. YouTube was meant to be a live dating 00:20:40.410 --> 00:20:45.730 website. Imagine if that was the case now. You 00:20:45.730 --> 00:20:47.190 look at the biggest of the biggest, smallest 00:20:47.190 --> 00:20:50.160 of the smallest. Being nimble and adaptive, especially 00:20:50.160 --> 00:20:53.539 at the earliest stages, it's super, super important. 00:20:54.319 --> 00:20:55.660 I mean, you're obviously not going to see the 00:20:55.660 --> 00:20:58.680 likes of OpenAI and Revolut Pivot, but when you're 00:20:58.680 --> 00:21:01.460 pre... That being said, Revolut just launched 00:21:01.460 --> 00:21:04.549 a crypto thing, a crypto app. Yes, actually getting 00:21:04.549 --> 00:21:07.329 really like tons of market share. Yeah. Yeah. 00:21:07.430 --> 00:21:10.230 Obviously, but it's a subsidiary, right? So Revolut 00:21:10.230 --> 00:21:12.849 has Revolut business, Revolut has Revolut transactions, 00:21:12.930 --> 00:21:16.029 Revolut has, you know, now their FX and crypto 00:21:16.029 --> 00:21:18.670 market. And now they're even looking at going 00:21:18.670 --> 00:21:21.150 into, you know, different neo banking stages. 00:21:21.470 --> 00:21:23.049 But that's not pivoting. That's just adding into 00:21:23.049 --> 00:21:25.490 the margins, right? They're a $50 billion company. 00:21:25.630 --> 00:21:28.250 But in the in the early stage, definitely, if 00:21:28.250 --> 00:21:30.329 you're series A and under, you need to be very 00:21:30.329 --> 00:21:33.259 nimble. Reason being is especially now. Nowadays, 00:21:33.740 --> 00:21:35.900 market is moving and changing so, so quickly. 00:21:36.099 --> 00:21:38.019 And if you're not adaptable, you're going to 00:21:38.019 --> 00:21:40.559 be wiped out like this. You're gone within a 00:21:40.559 --> 00:21:42.839 few days. There's so many startups. There's more 00:21:42.839 --> 00:21:47.440 startups than ever. I think pre -2019, small 00:21:47.440 --> 00:21:51.140 businesses and startups across the world, I think 00:21:51.140 --> 00:21:54.480 the statistic was there were around 22 million 00:21:54.480 --> 00:21:57.920 people or 22 million, sorry, small businesses 00:21:57.920 --> 00:22:00.019 and startups that were out there. These are including 00:22:00.019 --> 00:22:03.599 your mom and pop shops and small companies. Just 00:22:03.599 --> 00:22:06.059 in the last five years, that number has gone 00:22:06.059 --> 00:22:11.380 up to 60. So it's 3x in five years and that's 00:22:11.380 --> 00:22:14.130 because... everyone in their mom and dad and 00:22:14.130 --> 00:22:16.269 dog wants to do a startup. Now everyone wants 00:22:16.269 --> 00:22:19.210 to build and create something because the cost 00:22:19.210 --> 00:22:21.700 of you know, the biggest thing is the barrier 00:22:21.700 --> 00:22:24.019 to entry, the cost of entry of building your 00:22:24.019 --> 00:22:26.380 startup has gone so super low. I mean, I can 00:22:26.380 --> 00:22:29.579 go online and I can do an AI website, AI, you 00:22:29.579 --> 00:22:32.500 know, no code, low code design and, you know, 00:22:32.619 --> 00:22:34.559 put a few ideas out there, pitch deck I can do 00:22:34.559 --> 00:22:37.240 for AI. Like I can give you a whole new pitch 00:22:37.240 --> 00:22:39.640 deck with a new website with a, you know, low 00:22:39.640 --> 00:22:42.539 code MVP in about two days, right? And it might 00:22:42.539 --> 00:22:46.470 cost me 200 bucks. The cost of entry has gone 00:22:46.470 --> 00:22:49.690 so, so low that so many more players can enter 00:22:49.690 --> 00:22:53.410 the market now. You've got to remember that thing 00:22:53.410 --> 00:22:56.230 now of how easy it is to how you can differentiate 00:22:56.230 --> 00:22:58.589 and what is your moat and how you're building 00:22:58.589 --> 00:23:01.349 that. Do you think we're making wealth more accessible 00:23:01.349 --> 00:23:03.589 or the path to wealth more accessible? Because 00:23:03.589 --> 00:23:05.970 a couple of years ago, people say, go to a nice 00:23:05.970 --> 00:23:09.220 school. work hard and find a nice job in a very 00:23:09.220 --> 00:23:10.880 stable company. And that's kind of it, right? 00:23:10.980 --> 00:23:12.380 That's it. You don't need to worry about anything 00:23:12.380 --> 00:23:14.279 else. You can then buy a house, you can then 00:23:14.279 --> 00:23:16.220 afford very nice holidays, yourself for life. 00:23:16.500 --> 00:23:18.339 However, nowadays, we kind of know that that 00:23:18.339 --> 00:23:20.980 pathway, it doesn't really work that well. So 00:23:20.980 --> 00:23:22.539 you can still go to a very good unit, you might 00:23:22.539 --> 00:23:24.819 not find the perfect job. And if you do find 00:23:24.819 --> 00:23:26.480 the perfect job, it doesn't mean the company 00:23:26.480 --> 00:23:27.900 is stable, right? They can still kick you out 00:23:27.900 --> 00:23:29.400 and say, you know what, we had some changes. 00:23:30.220 --> 00:23:32.339 But then when you're launching your own business, 00:23:32.440 --> 00:23:34.910 of course, there's a lot more challenges. But 00:23:34.910 --> 00:23:38.049 then also more rewards at that moment so yeah 00:23:38.049 --> 00:23:40.789 no i think look i think what you talk about is 00:23:40.789 --> 00:23:42.910 also the parents generation where you know stability 00:23:42.910 --> 00:23:46.490 was you go work my job and that's it yeah yeah 00:23:46.490 --> 00:23:48.890 but that was the thing because you know in the 00:23:48.890 --> 00:23:51.109 interesting statistics in the uk in general was 00:23:51.109 --> 00:23:54.950 that your. Value of your house which was always 00:23:54.950 --> 00:23:58.289 the sign of you know how well you doing was is 00:23:58.289 --> 00:24:01.150 your annual salary was a ratio between one to 00:24:01.150 --> 00:24:04.339 four and in the sense that. you know, you were 00:24:04.339 --> 00:24:06.900 earning 10 ,000 pounds a year and the average 00:24:06.900 --> 00:24:10.220 house in the country cost around 40 to 45. So, 00:24:10.460 --> 00:24:12.519 you know, you as a couple might need to work 00:24:12.519 --> 00:24:15.460 two to three, four years and save maybe for five 00:24:15.460 --> 00:24:18.599 or so years. But now the case is the average 00:24:18.599 --> 00:24:21.339 house in the country costs around 300 ,000 and 00:24:21.339 --> 00:24:24.519 the average salary is 25 ,000. So now it's gone 00:24:24.519 --> 00:24:27.380 up to 15 times what used to be four to five times. 00:24:27.720 --> 00:24:30.839 So it's become that much more difficult. to have 00:24:30.839 --> 00:24:33.900 your house and build and that dream of like working 00:24:33.900 --> 00:24:36.319 the nine to five. And I mean, maybe in some positions, 00:24:36.480 --> 00:24:39.099 yes, if you're a quant Goldman's and the likes 00:24:39.099 --> 00:24:41.259 of JP and, you know, so on and so forth, you 00:24:41.259 --> 00:24:43.240 can still achieve that. But for the everyday 00:24:43.240 --> 00:24:45.319 person, they're just looking at it. It's like, 00:24:45.559 --> 00:24:48.059 I'm doing four years at university. I'm going 00:24:48.059 --> 00:24:51.460 60, 70 grand in debt to just come back and, you 00:24:51.460 --> 00:24:53.779 know, be slogging off paying my debt and struggling 00:24:53.779 --> 00:24:56.079 and, you know, making barely ends meet. This 00:24:56.079 --> 00:24:59.400 is not what I want to do. So I think. People 00:24:59.400 --> 00:25:02.900 change and their ability to do what they do change 00:25:02.900 --> 00:25:04.799 when, I think I'm going to completely butcher 00:25:04.799 --> 00:25:08.019 this quote is, but it's, you change when the, 00:25:08.220 --> 00:25:10.700 I'm completely butchered this, but it is a roughly 00:25:10.700 --> 00:25:14.529 give or take. when the pain of staying same is 00:25:14.529 --> 00:25:16.609 more than the pain of changing. Give or take, 00:25:16.690 --> 00:25:18.769 might have to do a little cut here. And you know, 00:25:18.769 --> 00:25:20.349 that's what we're seeing in people that they're 00:25:20.349 --> 00:25:22.930 just so sick and tired of being in that position 00:25:22.930 --> 00:25:25.369 of not being able to make anything worth. Like, 00:25:25.369 --> 00:25:27.630 you know, most people who I know are earning 00:25:27.630 --> 00:25:30.730 even 40, 50 grand salaries. They're like, at 00:25:30.730 --> 00:25:32.190 the end of the month, I'm left with like a few 00:25:32.190 --> 00:25:33.950 hundred bucks. But that's not a lot of money, 00:25:34.049 --> 00:25:36.430 especially for London. Not a lot of money. It 00:25:36.430 --> 00:25:38.210 sounds like a lot of money, but when you start 00:25:38.210 --> 00:25:40.869 paying all your bills, you kind of want to leave. 00:25:41.379 --> 00:25:43.380 I don't mean a crazy lifestyle, but you kind 00:25:43.380 --> 00:25:45.819 of want to go buy clothes in a certain shop. 00:25:45.900 --> 00:25:47.720 You don't want to have nice television, nice 00:25:47.720 --> 00:25:50.140 room, all that. It comes onto nothing. Which 00:25:50.140 --> 00:25:52.740 is crazy when you think about it. I mean, you 00:25:52.740 --> 00:25:55.480 go for not even ridiculous, but a nice dinner 00:25:55.480 --> 00:25:58.160 with your partner. You order some drinks, entree 00:25:58.160 --> 00:26:02.000 and food, and that's like 150 bucks. It depends 00:26:02.000 --> 00:26:03.700 where you take them. That's more your style. 00:26:04.579 --> 00:26:11.299 McDonald's, but it is expensive. I wish McDonald's 00:26:11.299 --> 00:26:14.839 was still a good place. So I think that's the 00:26:14.839 --> 00:26:16.660 reason so many people are going into the startup 00:26:16.660 --> 00:26:18.920 world where they're like, if we're going to dedicate 00:26:18.920 --> 00:26:21.809 so many hours to barely cut through, we might 00:26:21.809 --> 00:26:23.769 as well do it on something where I'm getting 00:26:23.769 --> 00:26:25.650 all the money, right? Because when I was in wealth 00:26:25.650 --> 00:26:31.349 management and my charge out rate at age 21 or 00:26:31.349 --> 00:26:35.369 age 22 was like 350 pounds an hour, right? And 00:26:35.369 --> 00:26:37.849 my billables were like the best of the best. 00:26:38.269 --> 00:26:41.250 And I realized, out of that 350, like whatever 00:26:41.250 --> 00:26:43.609 my salary was, I think my salary was equivalent 00:26:43.609 --> 00:26:45.990 to like 22 or 23 pounds an hour. And I was like, 00:26:46.269 --> 00:26:49.950 Hold on a minute. Something doesn't add up here. 00:26:50.210 --> 00:26:52.470 I'm making you so much money and I'm only getting 00:26:52.470 --> 00:26:54.950 this part of it. And again, the big thing with 00:26:54.950 --> 00:26:58.849 these, you know, giant MNCs is yes, you'll have 00:26:58.849 --> 00:27:00.869 access and ability, which is good to have in 00:27:00.869 --> 00:27:03.109 the early years, but they're very slow to promote 00:27:03.109 --> 00:27:05.349 you. You'll never go from an analyst to a VP 00:27:05.349 --> 00:27:08.930 in two years, even if you are the best of the 00:27:08.930 --> 00:27:11.269 best. Right. I had two promotions in two and 00:27:11.269 --> 00:27:14.059 a half years. which was unheard of in my company 00:27:14.059 --> 00:27:15.799 because most people at that time didn't even 00:27:15.799 --> 00:27:18.799 have one. But even then I was like, dude, I need 00:27:18.799 --> 00:27:20.319 to do so much more. I need to do this. And they 00:27:20.319 --> 00:27:23.619 were like, no, no, no. Yeah. Yeah. So at that 00:27:23.619 --> 00:27:25.140 point, people are like, I'm going to build my 00:27:25.140 --> 00:27:26.720 own thing. I'm going to take a hundred percent 00:27:26.720 --> 00:27:30.259 of what I do. And there's no upside, right? There's 00:27:30.259 --> 00:27:32.519 sorry, there's no limit to the upside. And I 00:27:32.519 --> 00:27:34.880 think that's the big differentiator now. And 00:27:34.880 --> 00:27:37.019 I urge people, you know. Let's talk about something 00:27:37.019 --> 00:27:39.000 else then. How about risk? How have you managed 00:27:39.000 --> 00:27:42.009 to risk? Because having that decision means you're 00:27:42.009 --> 00:27:44.049 then quitting your day job and then you're transitioning 00:27:44.049 --> 00:27:45.710 to something else, which is completely uncertain. 00:27:46.069 --> 00:27:47.329 You kind of don't know what's going to happen. 00:27:47.430 --> 00:27:48.869 You don't know if you're going to be successful 00:27:48.869 --> 00:27:51.190 or not. So you're kind of betting all the chips 00:27:51.190 --> 00:27:55.089 in yourself, which is a bit scary. I think risk 00:27:55.089 --> 00:27:57.650 mitigation partly depends on what stage of life 00:27:57.650 --> 00:28:00.690 you're in. If you're listening to this as a, 00:28:00.690 --> 00:28:04.589 you know, under 25, 26 year old and you're like, 00:28:04.779 --> 00:28:07.359 You know my parents have a house like take all 00:28:07.359 --> 00:28:09.539 the risk in the world because you have time you 00:28:09.539 --> 00:28:11.839 are early if you're between the age of fifteen 00:28:11.839 --> 00:28:14.579 to twenty five twenty six just risk it cuz what's 00:28:14.579 --> 00:28:16.660 the worst can happen you gonna start again i 00:28:16.660 --> 00:28:19.039 mean most people at this age are at that stage 00:28:19.039 --> 00:28:20.920 where that may be doing a masters that trying 00:28:20.920 --> 00:28:23.420 again the still applying right couple of my friends 00:28:23.420 --> 00:28:26.240 who graduated and that did the masters that took 00:28:26.240 --> 00:28:28.250 a gap year or whatever. They're still looking 00:28:28.250 --> 00:28:31.029 for their initial jobs now, right? I just started 00:28:31.029 --> 00:28:33.769 building shit when I was 19, just because I, 00:28:33.769 --> 00:28:35.690 that was like, I always wanted money. I came 00:28:35.690 --> 00:28:37.630 from a very humble house and my thing was always, 00:28:37.769 --> 00:28:39.869 even if I can earn an extra hundred pounds, they'll 00:28:39.869 --> 00:28:42.329 make a difference. So if you, you know, if you 00:28:42.329 --> 00:28:45.269 can take that bet by all means, like when I was 00:28:45.269 --> 00:28:47.730 launching my venture studio and I had to do my 00:28:47.730 --> 00:28:51.170 first two hires, full time hires, and I had to 00:28:51.170 --> 00:28:54.289 sort of leave my contract in the house where 00:28:54.289 --> 00:28:58.359 I was in, ran out. My choice was. Either I take 00:28:58.359 --> 00:29:00.640 that risk and launch that company and hire these 00:29:00.640 --> 00:29:05.220 two guys and I had to sleep on sofas for two 00:29:05.220 --> 00:29:07.579 months or I just continue as it is. And I was 00:29:07.579 --> 00:29:10.119 like, it's two months. I'm going to sleep on 00:29:10.119 --> 00:29:13.460 sofas. That's fine. So I couch top. three of 00:29:13.460 --> 00:29:15.960 my friends for about seven and a half weeks where 00:29:15.960 --> 00:29:19.279 I was like I can't afford to pay two time full 00:29:19.279 --> 00:29:22.819 salaries plus software costs and also pay for 00:29:22.819 --> 00:29:24.500 you know because London housing is like you pay 00:29:24.500 --> 00:29:26.819 one month up front and then you pay the rent 00:29:26.819 --> 00:29:28.220 and you know everything is up front and I was 00:29:28.220 --> 00:29:30.940 like I can't do it so I have to choose that either 00:29:30.940 --> 00:29:33.759 or and my gamble was I'm gonna try it what's 00:29:33.759 --> 00:29:36.000 the worst that can happen I live two months on 00:29:36.000 --> 00:29:38.019 the sofa as it doesn't work out I'm gonna get 00:29:38.019 --> 00:29:41.640 into the second house anyways so But obviously, 00:29:41.799 --> 00:29:43.500 what I wouldn't say is if you have completely 00:29:43.500 --> 00:29:46.460 zero in the bank account. I mean, again, in that 00:29:46.460 --> 00:29:48.380 case, you can look at it from both ways, right? 00:29:48.460 --> 00:29:51.240 If you're already on zero, you can't go to, you 00:29:51.240 --> 00:29:53.339 know. I mean, you could definitely get into debt, 00:29:53.559 --> 00:29:56.980 but then don't get into debt. Don't do anything 00:29:56.980 --> 00:29:58.779 stupid. I mean, by the way, don't take that advice, 00:29:58.799 --> 00:30:00.500 but in the sense that if you're already at rock 00:30:00.500 --> 00:30:03.170 bottom, the only way is up. Right but if you're 00:30:03.170 --> 00:30:05.329 young you're hungry go for it because you know 00:30:05.329 --> 00:30:08.049 you have so much time there's so much learning 00:30:08.049 --> 00:30:10.609 if you can you know dedicate your hours to it 00:30:10.609 --> 00:30:13.450 but i think you can very well build on the side 00:30:13.450 --> 00:30:16.390 people is just. They don't have enough motivation 00:30:16.390 --> 00:30:18.650 to tell themselves they don't have the energy 00:30:18.650 --> 00:30:21.609 or whatever whatever. I mean I'm not saying them 00:30:21.609 --> 00:30:24.349 be crazy I think at one point I was just a lunatic 00:30:24.349 --> 00:30:26.750 who was you know working 21 hours a day every 00:30:26.750 --> 00:30:28.490 single day with only three hours of sleep for 00:30:28.490 --> 00:30:31.849 nine months so that was very very unhealthy but 00:30:31.849 --> 00:30:33.990 I think sometimes that's just what it takes right 00:30:33.990 --> 00:30:36.009 those are the chapters when you look back and 00:30:36.009 --> 00:30:38.769 go every piece of that is now worth it right 00:30:38.769 --> 00:30:42.690 I put in so many hours in 2022 2023 with seeing 00:30:42.690 --> 00:30:45.349 barely any result like if I tell you when I started 00:30:45.349 --> 00:30:48.599 my business my year one I made 9 ,000 pounds. 00:30:49.000 --> 00:30:52.019 My year two, I made 75 ,000 pounds. Year three, 00:30:52.079 --> 00:30:54.000 I'm just about to close. I'm about to do just 00:30:54.000 --> 00:30:56.940 over seven figures. So what do you say to yourself 00:30:56.940 --> 00:31:00.019 when you're just making 9 ,000? I'm going to 00:31:00.019 --> 00:31:03.859 do it. You have to be. You know this is partly 00:31:03.859 --> 00:31:06.839 seen as delusion But I think the best of the 00:31:06.839 --> 00:31:09.160 best founders are you have to believe in yourself 00:31:09.160 --> 00:31:11.519 more than anyone else ever will because otherwise 00:31:11.519 --> 00:31:13.660 you'll never make it though There's so many people 00:31:13.660 --> 00:31:15.380 that will try and pull you and drag you down 00:31:15.380 --> 00:31:18.799 But you yourself need to have that faith of I'm 00:31:18.799 --> 00:31:20.660 putting in the work. I'm doing the right thing 00:31:20.660 --> 00:31:23.380 and I just got to keep at it I've not met a single 00:31:23.380 --> 00:31:25.559 person who's been doing the right thing who's 00:31:25.559 --> 00:31:27.779 been putting in time putting in the effort and 00:31:27.779 --> 00:31:29.940 has been true to their craft for a decade and 00:31:29.940 --> 00:31:32.799 not make it big It's just people quit too early. 00:31:33.740 --> 00:31:37.059 There's no way you put 10 years of blood, sweat, 00:31:37.119 --> 00:31:39.819 and tears, go all in, not cheat on what you're 00:31:39.819 --> 00:31:42.460 doing, and you not make it. It doesn't happen. 00:31:42.920 --> 00:31:45.420 I've not heard of something like that. Obviously, 00:31:45.480 --> 00:31:48.420 there's crashes and crisis later on, which can 00:31:48.420 --> 00:31:51.079 happen again, but then you rebuild. What else 00:31:51.079 --> 00:31:54.240 is there to do? You have the skill set to do 00:31:54.240 --> 00:31:58.460 it. How do you, as an investor, when you have 00:31:58.460 --> 00:32:02.140 this delusional founder, And I'm saying this 00:32:02.140 --> 00:32:04.900 in a loving, tender way, because everyone, I 00:32:04.900 --> 00:32:06.440 think, needs to be a little bit delusional in 00:32:06.440 --> 00:32:08.180 the beginning. How do you guide them in the right 00:32:08.180 --> 00:32:10.579 direction? And how do you differentiate between 00:32:10.579 --> 00:32:13.180 the delusional ones and the ones who are slightly 00:32:13.180 --> 00:32:15.440 crazy, but they can be guided in the right direction 00:32:15.440 --> 00:32:17.339 because they have the crazy energy and all that. 00:32:17.799 --> 00:32:19.839 I mean, look, they're all crazy to build their 00:32:19.839 --> 00:32:21.920 own things and leave the nice paying jobs, right? 00:32:22.019 --> 00:32:24.220 I mean, that's the general view of it. But I 00:32:24.220 --> 00:32:26.799 think the biggest factor is, cool, you're delusional, 00:32:26.920 --> 00:32:28.759 cool, you're saying all these things, but show 00:32:28.759 --> 00:32:31.890 me your grit. Right can you say so one of the 00:32:31.890 --> 00:32:34.829 founders right which invested in one of my partners 00:32:34.829 --> 00:32:37.289 companies he was telling me the story of this 00:32:37.289 --> 00:32:39.569 founder who would go to summits like two day 00:32:39.569 --> 00:32:41.829 summits and he would be like. I don't have the 00:32:41.829 --> 00:32:44.490 money to stay in a hotel i'm just gonna sleep 00:32:44.490 --> 00:32:46.690 in the train station and the morning i'm just 00:32:46.690 --> 00:32:49.450 gonna go to a mall or local whatever and shower 00:32:49.450 --> 00:32:51.569 there and go he wasn't willing to pay hundred 00:32:51.569 --> 00:32:54.289 pounds for the night. I like that. But that's 00:32:54.289 --> 00:32:56.869 great, right? And he built the company to the 00:32:56.869 --> 00:33:00.569 point where these guys, I think by spending like, 00:33:00.569 --> 00:33:03.490 I think 150k or something, built their own deep 00:33:03.490 --> 00:33:04.970 tech technology and the company was worth like 00:33:04.970 --> 00:33:07.910 20 million at that point. But he was like, I'm 00:33:07.910 --> 00:33:09.609 going to sleep on the sofa. I'm going to sleep 00:33:09.609 --> 00:33:14.410 on the stations. I'm going to figure out a way. 00:33:15.000 --> 00:33:17.660 So the biggest thing for me is cool you're saying 00:33:17.660 --> 00:33:20.119 to me you're passionate you're saying to me delusion 00:33:20.119 --> 00:33:23.430 show me what you can do right don't. think of 00:33:23.430 --> 00:33:25.390 an idea and say you have all this, this and this 00:33:25.390 --> 00:33:27.890 and ask for money. Right. I was, I was at an 00:33:27.890 --> 00:33:30.690 event at an Antler around yesterday and you know, 00:33:30.750 --> 00:33:32.670 this founder was like, Hey, I've built this tech. 00:33:32.890 --> 00:33:35.549 I, I want to, you know, investment I'm raising. 00:33:35.670 --> 00:33:37.670 First of all, he said, I'm raising 15 ,000 pounds. 00:33:37.710 --> 00:33:40.509 I was like, okay, interesting. A very low amount. 00:33:40.789 --> 00:33:42.150 I was like, how much have you self invested? 00:33:42.250 --> 00:33:44.069 He's like, well, you know, I've been putting 00:33:44.069 --> 00:33:46.809 in my time and I've built the software and I've 00:33:46.809 --> 00:33:49.579 been working on the side and I was like, you're 00:33:49.579 --> 00:33:52.000 negating the question. The initial, whatever 00:33:52.000 --> 00:33:54.299 amount needs to come from you, the investor needs 00:33:54.299 --> 00:33:57.519 to see you are all in as an investor. I want 00:33:57.519 --> 00:33:59.440 to see, have you put in your blood, sweat and 00:33:59.440 --> 00:34:01.859 tears and 15 ,000 should, I mean, I'm talking 00:34:01.859 --> 00:34:04.039 UK, US, not that it's not a big amount, but this 00:34:04.039 --> 00:34:06.000 should be the amount that should be coming from 00:34:06.000 --> 00:34:07.940 you directly. This should be the amount that's 00:34:07.940 --> 00:34:10.400 coming from maybe friends and family, but you 00:34:10.400 --> 00:34:12.679 you've been able to facilitate this initial part. 00:34:12.880 --> 00:34:15.000 This is when the investor season goes, okay, 00:34:15.199 --> 00:34:18.260 he's put in what he can and now he's coming to 00:34:18.260 --> 00:34:20.579 me to scale, which is I think one of the mistakes 00:34:20.579 --> 00:34:22.739 founders make, right? That they go to investors 00:34:22.739 --> 00:34:26.039 too early and some, you know, US guys, maybe 00:34:26.039 --> 00:34:28.219 they'll back it just because, you know, they're 00:34:28.219 --> 00:34:31.219 crazy. But like for the fund itself, right? I 00:34:31.219 --> 00:34:34.159 put 170 grand into three companies. I'm committing 00:34:34.159 --> 00:34:36.519 a hundred grand into the fund and then the setup 00:34:36.519 --> 00:34:39.260 of the fund is 40 grand. So after I've deployed 00:34:39.260 --> 00:34:40.820 all this capital, my bank account is going to 00:34:40.820 --> 00:34:43.739 be left at like two or three grand. And that's, 00:34:43.880 --> 00:34:45.960 you know, I've built all this at my age, and 00:34:45.960 --> 00:34:49.400 now I'm again going all in. But the LPs can see 00:34:49.400 --> 00:34:52.079 that they're like, he's all in. For me, that's 00:34:52.079 --> 00:34:54.559 the only way, right? You show to the LPs, you 00:34:54.559 --> 00:34:56.820 are all in. So if you want to talk to talk about 00:34:56.820 --> 00:34:59.219 craziness and delusion, show me you're also able 00:34:59.219 --> 00:35:01.960 to walk it. And then I'll try and guide you. 00:35:02.039 --> 00:35:04.039 Okay, I see you're all in, you're not all talk. 00:35:04.440 --> 00:35:07.139 Now let's try and see how we can focus on certain 00:35:07.139 --> 00:35:10.059 parts. And you know, it's all about moving the 00:35:10.059 --> 00:35:12.789 lens in and out, right? Okay. You've got this 00:35:12.789 --> 00:35:15.130 wider vision. What does step one look like? What 00:35:15.130 --> 00:35:17.489 does materialization look like? What does commercialization 00:35:17.489 --> 00:35:19.650 looks like? Who are your partners? Who are you 00:35:19.650 --> 00:35:22.050 channeling into? And getting that done is not 00:35:22.050 --> 00:35:24.050 hard. Any sort of good investor who's coming 00:35:24.050 --> 00:35:26.690 in and you as a founder should be able to figure 00:35:26.690 --> 00:35:29.360 out. If you're bringing an investor early doors 00:35:29.360 --> 00:35:31.860 that needs to, needs to, needs to be strategic, 00:35:32.300 --> 00:35:34.940 how are they adding value more than cash? Which 00:35:34.940 --> 00:35:37.079 is our biggest thing when we enter in sort of 00:35:37.079 --> 00:35:39.400 as a venture studio, since our model, you know, 00:35:39.460 --> 00:35:41.300 when we invest up to 200 grand in the early stage, 00:35:41.480 --> 00:35:43.960 it's tech for equity, sales for equity. So in 00:35:43.960 --> 00:35:46.099 the super early stage, cash is not as valuable. 00:35:46.179 --> 00:35:48.900 Cash will in some cases slow you down more than 00:35:48.900 --> 00:35:51.739 resources and partnerships and entries and that 00:35:51.739 --> 00:35:55.539 kind of stuff. Is that being enabled if no, maybe 00:35:55.539 --> 00:35:57.619 that 50 grand check that you're getting isn't 00:35:57.619 --> 00:36:00.820 that useful? Because I see a lot of people and 00:36:00.820 --> 00:36:03.139 I mean a lot of people defense and what I normally 00:36:03.139 --> 00:36:05.800 realize is that if they're just asking for money, 00:36:05.920 --> 00:36:08.280 just walk away. Yeah, I'm just I'm just trying 00:36:08.280 --> 00:36:10.579 to raise. OK, what have you done? I'm just trying 00:36:10.579 --> 00:36:12.059 to raise and then I'm going to start building. 00:36:12.219 --> 00:36:13.940 Well, hold on. It doesn't work like that. Yeah. 00:36:13.980 --> 00:36:15.860 because it's not expensive to build unless you're 00:36:15.860 --> 00:36:17.400 building, I don't know, some type of factory 00:36:17.400 --> 00:36:19.420 somewhere in the remote place. You actually don't 00:36:19.420 --> 00:36:21.440 need money to get started. You should get started 00:36:21.440 --> 00:36:23.800 in the first place. And one thing I realized 00:36:23.800 --> 00:36:25.719 was in the beginning of the events, we were doing 00:36:25.719 --> 00:36:28.679 open mic pitching and the criteria was accessible 00:36:28.679 --> 00:36:31.139 to everyone. But I soon realized that unless 00:36:31.139 --> 00:36:34.340 they have an MVP bill and the website, they're 00:36:34.340 --> 00:36:36.360 not going to be able to articulate themselves 00:36:36.360 --> 00:36:38.739 well enough on stage to raise any investment. 00:36:39.300 --> 00:36:41.239 Oh, I just want to do a food delivery app for 00:36:41.239 --> 00:36:44.619 pets. OK, what have you done? Zero. That's a 00:36:44.619 --> 00:36:46.880 crazy idea. That's like a conversation to have 00:36:46.880 --> 00:36:48.579 in a pub, not something you go and talk about 00:36:48.579 --> 00:36:50.380 in the past year. That's a one -to -preneur. 00:36:50.380 --> 00:36:52.000 That's not an excellent entrepreneur. Exactly. 00:36:52.000 --> 00:36:53.539 But if you come up and say, actually, I've done 00:36:53.539 --> 00:36:56.000 the market research, I've started building the 00:36:56.000 --> 00:36:57.900 MVP, or I have an MVP build, and this is what 00:36:57.900 --> 00:37:00.099 the website looks like, well, okay, there might 00:37:00.099 --> 00:37:03.219 be something there. Then you can justify, I need 00:37:03.219 --> 00:37:05.599 money to build the next stage, or I need money 00:37:05.599 --> 00:37:07.159 to go out to the market, or I need money to buy 00:37:07.159 --> 00:37:10.139 some product. Absolutely. And that initial money 00:37:10.139 --> 00:37:14.019 needs to... I'm a big believer that institutional 00:37:14.019 --> 00:37:17.059 investors in general anyways or you know the 00:37:17.059 --> 00:37:19.900 bigger tickets shouldn't be for the generic pre 00:37:19.900 --> 00:37:23.199 -seed. I mean even though our venture studios 00:37:23.199 --> 00:37:25.980 pre -seed we almost look at like a lake pre -seed 00:37:25.980 --> 00:37:29.059 on the cusp of seed stage in the sense that we 00:37:29.059 --> 00:37:32.159 want to see the initial funding the initial money 00:37:32.159 --> 00:37:34.860 you've been able to put down at least 50 grand 00:37:34.860 --> 00:37:37.639 from yourself you built something. where you've 00:37:37.639 --> 00:37:40.519 got a pipeline or an LOI agreed where someone 00:37:40.519 --> 00:37:42.860 is willing to pay you. I think getting to that 00:37:42.860 --> 00:37:45.119 place where you validated supply and demand, 00:37:45.400 --> 00:37:47.679 built something, even if it's like a part of 00:37:47.679 --> 00:37:50.460 the MVP and have self invested or done a friends 00:37:50.460 --> 00:37:53.519 and family rounds, this should be the most minimum 00:37:53.519 --> 00:37:55.800 criteria before you even start looking at any 00:37:55.800 --> 00:37:58.619 investors. Like if you haven't done that, do 00:37:58.619 --> 00:38:00.460 not look at investors. You're wasting your time 00:38:00.460 --> 00:38:03.280 and their time because then they're going to 00:38:03.280 --> 00:38:04.760 start leading you as well. They're going to say, 00:38:05.190 --> 00:38:06.889 Let's chat back in three months and then you're 00:38:06.889 --> 00:38:09.530 off the idea of like okay let me get the money 00:38:09.530 --> 00:38:13.219 and it doesn't work and then you. Fundraising 00:38:13.219 --> 00:38:15.179 is not easy. Fundraising is a full -time job, 00:38:15.460 --> 00:38:18.059 right? So if you as a CEO in the super early 00:38:18.059 --> 00:38:21.440 stage, a CEO in the early stage is chief everything 00:38:21.440 --> 00:38:24.199 officer, right? And if you're not doing that 00:38:24.199 --> 00:38:27.380 part of being building and financials and commercials 00:38:27.380 --> 00:38:29.840 and talking and logistics, and you start just 00:38:29.840 --> 00:38:32.460 focusing on fundraising, you're significantly 00:38:32.460 --> 00:38:34.619 slowing down your growth. And that's the reason. 00:38:34.860 --> 00:38:37.639 So when Carter did this publish last year, they 00:38:37.639 --> 00:38:40.079 showed that Ever sort of going from pre -seed 00:38:40.079 --> 00:38:43.079 to seed now takes 2 .2 years and the graduation 00:38:43.079 --> 00:38:45.619 of startups who can make it from pre -seed to 00:38:45.619 --> 00:38:49.099 seed have fallen from 38 % which they used to 00:38:49.099 --> 00:38:52.500 be pre -COVID to now 26%. So it's becoming more 00:38:52.500 --> 00:38:54.360 and more harder because part of the reason is 00:38:54.360 --> 00:38:58.000 they're going too early, they're not ready, they're 00:38:58.000 --> 00:39:00.719 not building to a significant amount, they're 00:39:00.719 --> 00:39:03.280 burning the money on sort of the wrong things 00:39:03.280 --> 00:39:05.800 and all of these things are becoming hindrances. 00:39:06.019 --> 00:39:09.989 Figure out. Very simply have i validated demand 00:39:09.989 --> 00:39:12.869 what i'm building is someone gonna pay for it 00:39:12.869 --> 00:39:16.030 okay let me get a proof of that awesome you know 00:39:16.030 --> 00:39:18.670 i'm ricardo i'm building a banking app you're 00:39:18.670 --> 00:39:21.510 a banking customer. Are you gonna pay for it 00:39:21.510 --> 00:39:23.690 perfect can you write me an ally which i can 00:39:23.690 --> 00:39:25.389 take to someone to show that you're gonna pay 00:39:25.389 --> 00:39:28.309 for it amazing now let me build something okay 00:39:28.309 --> 00:39:31.570 i put in some money. Ricardo part two, you're 00:39:31.570 --> 00:39:33.869 also my brother. I just need five grand. I've 00:39:33.869 --> 00:39:35.670 put in my five grand. Can you give me that five 00:39:35.670 --> 00:39:37.369 grand? Because friends and family are the people 00:39:37.369 --> 00:39:39.130 who are going to trust you outside of technology, 00:39:39.289 --> 00:39:42.329 right? Okay. Now let me piece this thing together. 00:39:42.710 --> 00:39:44.769 Okay. Now Ricardo part three investor. Okay. 00:39:44.889 --> 00:39:47.190 Now Ricardo built this tech and here's a demo 00:39:47.190 --> 00:39:49.230 of what this does. Here's what the rate money 00:39:49.230 --> 00:39:52.019 I raised. Here's a proof of LOI that there is 00:39:52.019 --> 00:39:54.559 demand for on building. Now can I get the hundred 00:39:54.559 --> 00:39:57.159 grand from you? Okay. I'm going to play devil's 00:39:57.159 --> 00:39:59.300 advocate. Yeah, absolutely. Do you think because 00:39:59.300 --> 00:40:01.119 I know in the UK the amount you can raise is 00:40:01.119 --> 00:40:02.920 significantly lower than it would raise in other 00:40:02.920 --> 00:40:05.500 markets, right? Yeah. Do you think that you can 00:40:05.500 --> 00:40:07.539 skip that process as long as you have enough 00:40:07.539 --> 00:40:10.360 money? In the sense that... Let's say you have 00:40:10.360 --> 00:40:13.679 a UK based startup and they have 250k raised 00:40:13.679 --> 00:40:17.010 versus a US based startup. But they don't follow 00:40:17.010 --> 00:40:19.289 their process in the US, but they follow the 00:40:19.289 --> 00:40:21.250 process in the UK. Do you think the US one will 00:40:21.250 --> 00:40:23.769 still be successful regardless of that or not 00:40:23.769 --> 00:40:27.809 so much? See, it depends. I think the US market, 00:40:27.969 --> 00:40:29.849 the biggest thing is they just have heaps and 00:40:29.849 --> 00:40:33.130 heaps of cash. So it's easier to raise in the 00:40:33.130 --> 00:40:36.329 US, but it's also more competitive. So what do 00:40:36.329 --> 00:40:39.199 I mean by that? there are much more people who 00:40:39.199 --> 00:40:41.420 have the propensity to put in a 50 grand check 00:40:41.420 --> 00:40:43.940 in the US, but there's much more startups who 00:40:43.940 --> 00:40:46.199 are competing for it. So there might be, you 00:40:46.199 --> 00:40:49.920 know, in the UK, in your local area, 10 people 00:40:49.920 --> 00:40:52.119 who can put in a 50k check, but there's also 00:40:52.119 --> 00:40:54.440 only 500 startups competing for that. Whereas 00:40:54.440 --> 00:40:57.420 in the US, there might be 100 people, but rather 00:40:57.420 --> 00:40:59.420 than 500 startups now, there might be actually 00:40:59.420 --> 00:41:01.500 50 ,000 startups who are competing for those, 00:41:01.500 --> 00:41:03.579 you know, 100, 200 people who can put in that 00:41:03.579 --> 00:41:07.360 check. So again, it depends. The uks market is 00:41:07.360 --> 00:41:09.760 very risk of us because they have bigger more 00:41:09.760 --> 00:41:12.519 propensity to pay they have that appetite but 00:41:12.519 --> 00:41:15.000 i think that should still be the model you follow 00:41:15.000 --> 00:41:18.179 because no one has ever said. Oh wow you're actually 00:41:18.179 --> 00:41:21.000 too far ahead like i don't like you made so much 00:41:21.000 --> 00:41:23.119 progress you don't know investors ever gonna 00:41:23.119 --> 00:41:25.550 sit and say. Man, you've made so much progress 00:41:25.550 --> 00:41:27.469 that's going to turn me off. Like, you know, 00:41:27.469 --> 00:41:30.530 I would love to get a more progress startup at 00:41:30.530 --> 00:41:32.610 a lower valuation. Like that's my wet dream. 00:41:32.789 --> 00:41:34.010 Like, you know what I mean? Like you go to every, 00:41:34.329 --> 00:41:36.530 like this right now is the investor's market 00:41:36.530 --> 00:41:38.670 in the sense that startups are still building 00:41:38.670 --> 00:41:40.969 as much, but market has crashed, the valuations 00:41:40.969 --> 00:41:43.630 have come down. That means I'm getting to pay 00:41:43.630 --> 00:41:46.429 lower price for as good of a company. Great. 00:41:46.849 --> 00:41:49.070 Investors will always, always like that. So, 00:41:49.150 --> 00:41:51.269 you know, never go to an investor with the expectation 00:41:51.269 --> 00:41:53.789 he's going to like if I'm further behind. That's 00:41:53.789 --> 00:41:56.730 never the case. So I would still urge them and 00:41:56.730 --> 00:42:00.610 give them that same advice. But in the US, you 00:42:00.610 --> 00:42:02.949 might be a bit more likely someone might go for 00:42:02.949 --> 00:42:05.110 you just because they know you. But then the 00:42:05.110 --> 00:42:07.630 thing also is the reason you see all these US 00:42:07.630 --> 00:42:09.789 guys, they've been able to raise big checks with 00:42:09.789 --> 00:42:12.389 nothing in. The reason isn't that. The reason 00:42:12.389 --> 00:42:15.230 a lot of times, either they're executive founders, 00:42:15.989 --> 00:42:21.389 in the sense they were past VPs or MDs at Google, 00:42:21.630 --> 00:42:24.869 Metta, Microsoft. And part of the reason these 00:42:24.869 --> 00:42:26.909 investors have come in is because of their network. 00:42:27.090 --> 00:42:29.809 So if I know you've been at Google for 20 years 00:42:29.809 --> 00:42:32.130 and now you're raising a small round, I know 00:42:32.130 --> 00:42:34.369 you'll at least give me two, three X back because 00:42:34.369 --> 00:42:36.590 I know your network itself can put in the money. 00:42:37.230 --> 00:42:40.789 Right. The way you work exactly like you're so 00:42:40.789 --> 00:42:43.230 well connected in the Bay Area, especially if 00:42:43.230 --> 00:42:45.489 you're there. Right. And then the second thing 00:42:45.489 --> 00:42:47.909 that, you know, risk taking is promoted at a 00:42:47.909 --> 00:42:49.949 very early age. Most people there, especially 00:42:49.949 --> 00:42:51.610 on the entrepreneurial side, they start building 00:42:51.610 --> 00:42:54.510 companies at 15, 16, 17. So by the time they 00:42:54.510 --> 00:42:56.150 get to mid twenties, late twenties, thirties, 00:42:56.150 --> 00:42:57.949 they're like, actually I've already exited the 00:42:57.949 --> 00:43:00.389 company. I was on a board of the company. In 00:43:00.389 --> 00:43:02.849 the UK, it's really looked down upon if you join, 00:43:02.849 --> 00:43:06.449 you know, if you're like a MD or a high level 00:43:06.449 --> 00:43:08.909 VP, if you join a board of a startup, people 00:43:08.909 --> 00:43:10.269 are like, dude, what are you doing? Whereas in 00:43:10.269 --> 00:43:12.909 the US, it's encouraged. So these guys already 00:43:12.909 --> 00:43:15.269 have experience being on board members, being 00:43:15.269 --> 00:43:17.730 advisors, you know, curriculums at universities, 00:43:17.889 --> 00:43:21.030 like universities run paid accelerators. Like 00:43:21.030 --> 00:43:24.389 I've heard of NYU, you know, Penn State, Texas 00:43:24.389 --> 00:43:26.349 State, because I'm spending so much time in the 00:43:26.349 --> 00:43:29.050 US and they're like, yeah, I ran my startup at, 00:43:29.050 --> 00:43:32.590 you know, university I had a 10 grand check from 00:43:32.590 --> 00:43:34.969 the uni itself I built this this and this I exited 00:43:34.969 --> 00:43:37.909 out to this I'm like this is amazing we need 00:43:37.909 --> 00:43:40.369 this in the UK right otherwise how are we gonna 00:43:40.369 --> 00:43:43.150 progress so it's a very different mindset but 00:43:43.150 --> 00:43:45.550 again still go back to having progress is always 00:43:45.550 --> 00:43:49.090 a good thing so okay tons of questions what do 00:43:49.090 --> 00:43:52.349 you think we should change in UK overall How 00:43:52.349 --> 00:43:53.889 long do you have? I know there's quite a lot 00:43:53.889 --> 00:43:56.389 of stuff, but I was just in this lecture with 00:43:56.389 --> 00:43:58.329 the former chancellor, Philip Hamlin, and he 00:43:58.329 --> 00:44:01.329 was saying, we keep on losing companies to the 00:44:01.329 --> 00:44:03.829 US market and they get series A's and then they 00:44:03.829 --> 00:44:05.469 were like, oh, should we go to the US? And then 00:44:05.469 --> 00:44:07.670 they normally go to the US because it's the market's 00:44:07.670 --> 00:44:09.349 completely different. They can get bigger checks. 00:44:10.110 --> 00:44:11.769 Investors are more willing to take gambles and 00:44:11.769 --> 00:44:13.630 all that. What should we change here in the UK 00:44:13.630 --> 00:44:20.250 from your perspective? And I was actually with 00:44:20.250 --> 00:44:22.469 Philippine in House of Lords and a similar sort 00:44:22.469 --> 00:44:25.030 of conversation came up and I think the biggest 00:44:25.030 --> 00:44:28.570 thing is we need to change the core and that's 00:44:28.570 --> 00:44:31.190 in two ways. First thing is promoting risk -taking 00:44:31.190 --> 00:44:34.170 mentality and I think this starts with the curriculum 00:44:34.170 --> 00:44:36.610 UK has. No one talks about entrepreneurship. 00:44:37.429 --> 00:44:39.809 I moved to the UK when I was 10, so in year five, 00:44:40.090 --> 00:44:43.579 so I know from where it takes, right? No one 00:44:43.579 --> 00:44:46.079 talks about entrepreneurship no one talks about 00:44:46.079 --> 00:44:48.380 you know what it takes to build companies to 00:44:48.380 --> 00:44:51.639 raise this needs to get integrated from secondary 00:44:51.639 --> 00:44:54.980 school at least where we're talking about innovation 00:44:54.980 --> 00:44:57.820 driving innovation where we're bringing in entrepreneurs 00:44:57.820 --> 00:45:01.300 who have made it right and rather than you know 00:45:01.300 --> 00:45:03.559 people would always bring police officers and 00:45:03.559 --> 00:45:06.619 doctors and your your traditional lawyers and 00:45:06.619 --> 00:45:09.380 teachers which are great but not everyone wants 00:45:09.380 --> 00:45:12.170 to become that. Let's start bringing in the guys 00:45:12.170 --> 00:45:15.590 who have been there and done and built companies 00:45:15.590 --> 00:45:19.309 that share their stories. Let me just interject 00:45:19.309 --> 00:45:22.170 here. Isn't an entrepreneur by nature really, 00:45:22.170 --> 00:45:24.829 really disruptive in class? Yeah. Because I remember 00:45:24.829 --> 00:45:28.170 being, you know, as I was growing up, I was always 00:45:28.170 --> 00:45:30.489 asking tons of questions. Yeah. What about this? 00:45:30.570 --> 00:45:32.250 What about that? It's like, just shut up, listen, 00:45:32.489 --> 00:45:34.429 memorize and then put it all in the text. Yeah. 00:45:34.489 --> 00:45:37.050 Right. So is it still the same case? Yeah, no. 00:45:37.110 --> 00:45:40.030 I mean, innovation by its core is disruptive. 00:45:40.670 --> 00:45:43.289 You know, no one innovates by following something 00:45:43.289 --> 00:45:45.610 in a straight line. You have to fall out of line 00:45:45.610 --> 00:45:48.170 and, you know, have that curious mentality of 00:45:48.170 --> 00:45:51.400 we've always been doing it. You know one plus 00:45:51.400 --> 00:45:53.980 one equal to what about but zero plus one also 00:45:53.980 --> 00:45:56.599 equals two, right? But then school is failing 00:45:56.599 --> 00:45:59.760 massively because then it's it's it's guiding 00:45:59.760 --> 00:46:01.699 you zero plus two by the way if anyone takes 00:46:01.699 --> 00:46:03.539 up that way Yeah, but but then school is guiding 00:46:03.539 --> 00:46:05.539 you towards a path that might not be there for 00:46:05.539 --> 00:46:07.769 you in the first place. Yeah Well, hence why 00:46:07.769 --> 00:46:09.809 I said this needs to get integrated very early 00:46:09.809 --> 00:46:12.489 on and teachers and the overall curriculum needs 00:46:12.489 --> 00:46:15.349 to adapt in the way that we are no longer in 00:46:15.349 --> 00:46:18.110 a position where this traditional route, which 00:46:18.110 --> 00:46:20.409 has been happening for the last 150, 200 years, 00:46:20.570 --> 00:46:23.210 is the only route. This has now changed into 00:46:23.210 --> 00:46:26.889 something else. We now need to be open to see 00:46:26.889 --> 00:46:28.969 how we can explore this other route for the up 00:46:28.969 --> 00:46:31.530 and coming kids. If we don't wanna lose everything 00:46:31.530 --> 00:46:33.710 to the u .s. and to the middle east don't get 00:46:33.710 --> 00:46:35.369 to the point no one's gonna build anything in 00:46:35.369 --> 00:46:37.710 the u .k. cuz i'll just say. What's the point 00:46:37.710 --> 00:46:39.429 no one's gonna back me anyways i should just 00:46:39.429 --> 00:46:41.570 go to u .s. and we're gonna lose every sort of 00:46:41.570 --> 00:46:43.590 talent that we have what we're already seeing 00:46:43.590 --> 00:46:46.230 that massively right i'm moving my holding corp 00:46:46.230 --> 00:46:50.070 to divide so but that's not the weather yeah 00:46:50.070 --> 00:46:53.170 just like the but no it's about that part one 00:46:53.170 --> 00:46:55.389 like right we need to be to start from super 00:46:55.389 --> 00:46:58.340 super early stage. And then second thing is incentives. 00:46:58.679 --> 00:47:02.000 And this is in two parts. The first part is the 00:47:02.000 --> 00:47:05.840 likes of SEIS programs, the likes of innovation 00:47:05.840 --> 00:47:08.840 programs, subsidies, where more money is being 00:47:08.840 --> 00:47:12.760 pulled in. But also a big one is pension funds. 00:47:13.179 --> 00:47:17.820 So in the US, I think the statistic is 64 % of 00:47:17.820 --> 00:47:20.119 pension money comes down to the venture route. 00:47:20.719 --> 00:47:24.159 So it goes from venture, private equity, so and 00:47:24.159 --> 00:47:27.789 so. all these sort of funnels and ultimately 00:47:27.789 --> 00:47:30.530 venture can then pull it down to startups. In 00:47:30.530 --> 00:47:34.170 the UK, that amount is only 10%. It's a massive, 00:47:34.170 --> 00:47:36.610 massive, and UK pension funds, some of the ones 00:47:36.610 --> 00:47:39.050 that operate here are huge. A couple of them 00:47:39.050 --> 00:47:41.630 are bigger than the US as well. So now you look 00:47:41.630 --> 00:47:44.050 at... Right, okay, that's five times less than 00:47:44.050 --> 00:47:46.289 the US and then the overall market is ten times 00:47:46.289 --> 00:47:49.309 less than the US We are deploying fifty times 00:47:49.309 --> 00:47:52.349 less capital than the US and then we say I wonder 00:47:52.349 --> 00:47:54.449 why they go to the US Well, if there's fifty 00:47:54.449 --> 00:47:56.889 times less money available, why wouldn't I move 00:47:56.889 --> 00:47:59.289 there? Right and then and then the third things 00:47:59.289 --> 00:48:02.130 are incentives right so you know places like 00:48:02.130 --> 00:48:04.929 delaware which offer low tax and opportunities 00:48:04.929 --> 00:48:07.849 places in india like gift city right place in 00:48:07.849 --> 00:48:10.570 dubai place in portugal are you portuguese should 00:48:10.570 --> 00:48:12.690 know that so there's incentive for someone to 00:48:12.690 --> 00:48:15.429 go okay if i build i'm not gonna have to worry 00:48:15.429 --> 00:48:17.969 about. in the early doors losing everything I 00:48:17.969 --> 00:48:20.409 build because that's another big worry that I'm 00:48:20.409 --> 00:48:22.769 already bootstrapped. I'm, you know, very hand 00:48:22.769 --> 00:48:25.110 to mouth in this situation. And then I'm like 00:48:25.110 --> 00:48:26.929 having to give more to the government. No heck, 00:48:27.010 --> 00:48:29.510 I don't want to do that. Right. So I think it 00:48:29.510 --> 00:48:31.570 starts early doors with the mentality and the 00:48:31.570 --> 00:48:33.969 integration in the education system, promoting 00:48:33.969 --> 00:48:36.610 that risk taking behavior and then creating an 00:48:36.610 --> 00:48:39.170 economy which is able to bring in foreign direct 00:48:39.170 --> 00:48:41.110 investment and people want to invest in this 00:48:41.110 --> 00:48:43.170 market because the taxes are low, the stability 00:48:43.170 --> 00:48:45.969 is there. And then the third thing is is opening 00:48:45.969 --> 00:48:48.590 up those pensions and those big pots where money 00:48:48.590 --> 00:48:51.690 can start to funnel down into these practices. 00:48:51.809 --> 00:48:55.369 And I think if we do that, we will be able to 00:48:55.369 --> 00:48:57.449 retain a lot of our talent and people will be, 00:48:57.449 --> 00:49:00.050 again, interested in moving back into the UK. 00:49:00.590 --> 00:49:02.469 Because ultimately, startups just need three 00:49:02.469 --> 00:49:05.329 things, right? They need the right resources 00:49:05.329 --> 00:49:07.570 in order to be able to build, whether that's 00:49:07.570 --> 00:49:10.030 working spaces, developments, teams, centers. 00:49:11.019 --> 00:49:13.780 U .K. kind of has that can do a bit better. A 00:49:13.780 --> 00:49:16.039 second thing is mentors, which I think U .K. 00:49:16.099 --> 00:49:18.599 has very, very well off. And then the third thing 00:49:18.599 --> 00:49:21.039 is capital, right? And which I think U .K. has 00:49:21.039 --> 00:49:23.780 the worst off. So if we can improve one, the 00:49:23.780 --> 00:49:26.199 number one, you know, the resource a bit more 00:49:26.199 --> 00:49:28.579 in terms of integrating everything, innovate 00:49:28.579 --> 00:49:31.659 U .K. programs, grants, SEIS, subsidies, you 00:49:31.659 --> 00:49:35.000 know, running this university accelerators. I 00:49:35.000 --> 00:49:37.039 don't think we. I mean, having more advisors 00:49:37.039 --> 00:49:38.260 are always great, but I think we're doing well. 00:49:38.539 --> 00:49:40.940 But this bigger capital chunk, if we can improve 00:49:40.940 --> 00:49:44.159 that and get it to the way we have more funds 00:49:44.159 --> 00:49:47.059 building in the UK, it will be great. And to 00:49:47.059 --> 00:49:50.739 give you another example, right? So the British 00:49:50.739 --> 00:49:53.599 bank, so they do some funds of funds investment. 00:49:53.900 --> 00:49:55.900 By the way, the person who was there was great. 00:49:56.800 --> 00:50:00.099 So no direct shots towards them. But I told them, 00:50:00.179 --> 00:50:02.099 look, I'm building this fund. I want fund of 00:50:02.099 --> 00:50:04.500 funds. And they loved the idea of what I was 00:50:04.539 --> 00:50:06.860 building with our inventors. They're like, we're 00:50:06.860 --> 00:50:09.239 in awesome. Uh, they're like, by the way, it's 00:50:09.239 --> 00:50:12.280 going to take 18 months. And I was like, dude, 00:50:12.280 --> 00:50:16.280 yeah. I was like, I can't wait 18 months to do 00:50:16.280 --> 00:50:18.400 my first clothes. Like I'm halfway through my 00:50:18.400 --> 00:50:21.260 first clothes in eight weeks. I'm not going to 00:50:21.260 --> 00:50:24.400 wait 18 months. So the process is so slow. Like 00:50:24.400 --> 00:50:26.000 funds are funds usually should be able to make. 00:50:26.139 --> 00:50:28.860 18 months is a long time well it's the bureaucracy 00:50:28.860 --> 00:50:30.860 right they were like by the time we get to the 00:50:30.860 --> 00:50:33.400 papers we do check one check you know in terms 00:50:33.400 --> 00:50:35.619 of checking uh step one step two we're bringing 00:50:35.619 --> 00:50:38.639 the partners a few calls and you know all the 00:50:38.639 --> 00:50:40.860 other pipeline and they're not 18 months nothing 00:50:40.860 --> 00:50:43.039 in business 18 months you completely change directions 00:50:43.039 --> 00:50:45.719 exactly So they want me to wait 18 months to 00:50:45.719 --> 00:50:47.719 do my first clothes. Cause they said they can 00:50:47.719 --> 00:50:50.760 only be on the first clothes because they're 00:50:50.760 --> 00:50:52.699 right there on LPA. And I was like, that's just 00:50:52.699 --> 00:50:54.320 not possible. So they can't come in on a later 00:50:54.320 --> 00:50:55.920 round. They could, they said, well, if you start 00:50:55.920 --> 00:50:58.380 looking at fun too. And I was like, fun one isn't 00:50:58.380 --> 00:51:00.280 done. Fun one will take like four or five years. 00:51:00.480 --> 00:51:02.820 So it's just, you know, that, that very elongated 00:51:02.820 --> 00:51:06.440 mentality of like, so if we can cut that down 00:51:06.440 --> 00:51:08.719 and bring in more opportunity, I think, I think 00:51:08.719 --> 00:51:10.840 UK will do really well. It's interesting. I was 00:51:10.840 --> 00:51:12.360 just reading up that they're going to build a 00:51:12.360 --> 00:51:16.400 new tunnel across the Thames and the amount of 00:51:16.400 --> 00:51:18.440 paperwork they had to file just to get that approved. 00:51:19.000 --> 00:51:21.739 It's absolutely crazy. We need to speed up the 00:51:21.739 --> 00:51:23.239 process. I think in the US it's a lot quicker 00:51:23.239 --> 00:51:26.039 to get stuff done. But if you go anywhere else 00:51:26.039 --> 00:51:28.260 in Europe, it's even worse. I know a lot of people 00:51:28.260 --> 00:51:30.420 from Europe saying or from continental Europe, 00:51:30.480 --> 00:51:32.199 if that makes sense. They actually want to move 00:51:32.199 --> 00:51:34.119 to the UK because you guys move a lot quicker 00:51:34.119 --> 00:51:36.929 than anywhere else in Europe. That's the business 00:51:36.929 --> 00:51:39.050 here. I can still get investment. I can still 00:51:39.050 --> 00:51:41.670 open a company. It's a complicated process, but 00:51:41.670 --> 00:51:43.409 yeah, it still needs to improve a lot. No, by 00:51:43.409 --> 00:51:48.170 all means. I mean, London is still Europe's largest 00:51:48.170 --> 00:51:50.909 hub for venture. It's falling down internationally. 00:51:51.329 --> 00:51:53.349 There was a point where London was number three 00:51:53.349 --> 00:51:55.489 globally, and I think it's much lower now. I 00:51:55.489 --> 00:51:58.150 think number six or seven. It used to be number 00:51:58.150 --> 00:52:00.449 two in unicorns produced. Now it's number four. 00:52:00.449 --> 00:52:02.269 The UK used to be number two in unicorns produced. 00:52:02.329 --> 00:52:05.219 Now it's number four. Right now it's US 1, China 00:52:05.219 --> 00:52:09.719 2, India 3, and UK 4. I mean, it's still great, 00:52:09.960 --> 00:52:12.559 but we're seeing it slowly slip down. And we 00:52:12.559 --> 00:52:14.980 want to be seeing the opposite. So if we want 00:52:14.980 --> 00:52:18.079 to retain that, if we don't want, I mean... Not 00:52:18.079 --> 00:52:20.000 to say there's anything bad, but continental 00:52:20.000 --> 00:52:22.679 Europe, we don't want to be comparing for the 00:52:22.679 --> 00:52:26.659 likes of Cyprus and Lithuania and Bulgaria. Not 00:52:26.659 --> 00:52:28.039 to say there's anything bad with those countries, 00:52:28.260 --> 00:52:30.340 but the reason we were the hub of capitalism 00:52:30.340 --> 00:52:33.139 for like a hundred years and did so well was 00:52:33.139 --> 00:52:35.980 because we had these reinstated policies. So 00:52:35.980 --> 00:52:37.760 we now don't want to be looking down and saying, 00:52:37.780 --> 00:52:39.260 well, at least we're doing better than them. 00:52:39.949 --> 00:52:41.530 that you're never going to grow that way. You 00:52:41.530 --> 00:52:43.250 want to see, okay, who's doing better than me? 00:52:43.449 --> 00:52:45.889 What can I take from them? But that should be 00:52:45.889 --> 00:52:48.050 the mindset of the way we go about things. It's 00:52:48.050 --> 00:52:49.969 pretty impressive to think about it just from 00:52:49.969 --> 00:52:53.329 a numbers perspective, because the US has about 00:52:53.329 --> 00:52:55.550 300 million people you would think. Then you 00:52:55.550 --> 00:52:58.849 have China, India, they literally more than half 00:52:58.849 --> 00:53:00.829 of the world population, right? And then you 00:53:00.829 --> 00:53:02.750 have the UK in the fourth place. So it's not 00:53:02.750 --> 00:53:04.250 that bad considering the number of people we 00:53:04.250 --> 00:53:07.460 have in the country. It should be much higher. 00:53:07.940 --> 00:53:10.300 Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just, you know, U .S. 00:53:10.420 --> 00:53:12.840 has dominated that badly. Like, you know, I think 00:53:12.840 --> 00:53:17.800 in the last 15 years, U .K. has about 90 unicorns 00:53:17.800 --> 00:53:22.039 and U .S. has had about 1 ,100. Well, yeah. Yeah. 00:53:22.639 --> 00:53:24.900 So when you start sort of piecing things together, 00:53:25.039 --> 00:53:26.860 you actually go, there is a bit of a difference. 00:53:26.980 --> 00:53:28.300 Let me ask you something, because you actually 00:53:28.300 --> 00:53:30.780 have this information. If you were to build a 00:53:30.780 --> 00:53:33.760 company in India. Would it be as straightforward 00:53:33.760 --> 00:53:36.500 as building a company in the U .S. or in the 00:53:36.500 --> 00:53:39.559 U .K.? Because I know India is a combination 00:53:39.559 --> 00:53:42.539 of multiple cultures and multiple, I guess, mini 00:53:42.539 --> 00:53:44.579 -states, if I can call it that. Yeah, of course. 00:53:44.900 --> 00:53:46.989 So would it still... It will make sense to launch 00:53:46.989 --> 00:53:49.030 a company. It will be as easy as launching in 00:53:49.030 --> 00:53:51.469 the UK. Yeah, it's actually very easy to launch 00:53:51.469 --> 00:53:53.070 in India now. I mean, the government has given 00:53:53.070 --> 00:53:56.650 massive initiatives. You have an idea, you apply 00:53:56.650 --> 00:54:00.409 to the government board of India, you register 00:54:00.409 --> 00:54:03.570 your company, you have your idea. And there's 00:54:03.570 --> 00:54:07.030 a lot of SEBI funds, which is India's type 1, 00:54:07.090 --> 00:54:10.500 type 2, type 3. So India's made it super, super 00:54:10.500 --> 00:54:12.579 easy. I mean, don't get me wrong. It's super 00:54:12.579 --> 00:54:15.000 easy to start a company in the UK. UK it's actually 00:54:15.000 --> 00:54:17.199 easier to open a company than US is. I think 00:54:17.199 --> 00:54:19.719 US has still some bureaucratic challenges. I 00:54:19.719 --> 00:54:21.980 can open up a company in the next one hour, you 00:54:21.980 --> 00:54:25.820 know, pay £40 on gov .uk and have, and more Ricardo 00:54:25.820 --> 00:54:27.739 limited, right? And that's that. So I think. 00:54:27.920 --> 00:54:30.460 That's not the challenge, it's what comes after 00:54:30.460 --> 00:54:33.380 that. It's the challenge of actually building, 00:54:33.760 --> 00:54:36.639 ideating, figuring out competition, going meeting 00:54:36.639 --> 00:54:40.320 like -minded individuals, scale, capital, partnerships. 00:54:40.760 --> 00:54:42.920 That's where the challenge is. I think pressing 00:54:42.920 --> 00:54:45.639 the go button is not that difficult and it doesn't 00:54:45.639 --> 00:54:47.659 make that much of a difference. I mean, in the 00:54:47.659 --> 00:54:49.960 U .S. it might take two weeks, UK fine, you can 00:54:49.960 --> 00:54:52.559 do it in one to two days. I think India takes 00:54:52.559 --> 00:54:55.480 about five days. Not a massive difference on 00:54:55.480 --> 00:54:58.179 a macro scale, but it's what comes after that 00:54:58.179 --> 00:55:00.980 that makes all the difference. Okay. But would 00:55:00.980 --> 00:55:03.139 you let's say you're in India, would you advise 00:55:03.139 --> 00:55:04.760 someone to actually move to get to launch a company 00:55:04.760 --> 00:55:06.860 or say it's just stay there because it's a growing 00:55:06.860 --> 00:55:09.300 market. I think it depends on what you've done 00:55:09.300 --> 00:55:10.760 and I'm being very diplomatic with the answer. 00:55:10.940 --> 00:55:12.559 I know, but I think it really depends on what 00:55:12.559 --> 00:55:16.199 you're building, right? I think there is not 00:55:16.199 --> 00:55:19.380 a necessity anymore. Like from, from, you know, 00:55:19.420 --> 00:55:21.849 what things used to be 10 years ago. where it 00:55:21.849 --> 00:55:23.769 was like, Oh no, man, dude, you got to, you know, 00:55:23.809 --> 00:55:25.489 if you're building and you're at that series, 00:55:25.489 --> 00:55:28.289 a level, you need to go now. I'm like, not really. 00:55:28.690 --> 00:55:30.730 Like there's tons of capital funds. You know, 00:55:30.809 --> 00:55:35.250 I think India has over 5 ,000 syndicates, angel 00:55:35.250 --> 00:55:38.030 funds, and VCs that are there now. So if you 00:55:38.030 --> 00:55:40.110 can't raise from that, I mean, why are you going 00:55:40.110 --> 00:55:43.010 to raise in the UK? You know, when I say and 00:55:43.010 --> 00:55:45.150 tell people to move is after they've validated 00:55:45.150 --> 00:55:47.050 a market, they know there's a fit. They've got 00:55:47.050 --> 00:55:48.570 a client from there and they want to expand. 00:55:48.920 --> 00:55:50.579 That's when you want to be sort of doing global 00:55:50.579 --> 00:55:55.000 expansion. But on day one, why, right? Maybe 00:55:55.000 --> 00:55:56.960 in certain industries, it would make sense. Like 00:55:56.960 --> 00:56:00.579 UK has a pretty strong fintech sector and certain 00:56:00.579 --> 00:56:05.380 parts of medtech sectors, where fine, if you're 00:56:05.380 --> 00:56:07.840 building very specialized within that and you 00:56:07.840 --> 00:56:11.119 have a great partnerships from the likes of Oxford 00:56:11.119 --> 00:56:13.539 or AstraZeneca or something like that, cool, 00:56:13.699 --> 00:56:16.670 it makes sense. But I wouldn't per se be like 00:56:16.670 --> 00:56:19.369 you would be massively ahead if you build in 00:56:19.369 --> 00:56:22.469 the UK or ahead at all. I think you can do super, 00:56:22.510 --> 00:56:24.429 super well. I think India is a massive consumer 00:56:24.429 --> 00:56:27.070 market. You can build a very cheaply there. You 00:56:27.070 --> 00:56:30.070 know, what a lot of people tend to do is build 00:56:30.070 --> 00:56:33.170 as a UK company and get the inflows and pounds, 00:56:33.369 --> 00:56:35.250 but actually have the backend all set up in India. 00:56:35.690 --> 00:56:38.190 So, you know, the cost is in rupees. And then, 00:56:38.190 --> 00:56:40.409 you know, leverage that as a, as an arbitrage. 00:56:40.530 --> 00:56:42.989 So that I would recommend, um, you know, if they 00:56:42.989 --> 00:56:45.050 want to do, and then whenever they sort of grow 00:56:45.050 --> 00:56:47.510 and expand into a U S market, but yeah, I, I 00:56:47.510 --> 00:56:50.949 wouldn't per se UK will do you massively well 00:56:50.949 --> 00:56:53.250 instead of India now. What about the menu list? 00:56:53.409 --> 00:56:55.550 I think that's the right place to move early 00:56:55.550 --> 00:56:58.889 stage. I think. Middle East is growing super, 00:56:58.929 --> 00:57:03.050 super well. And I was with, you know, the, the, 00:57:03.050 --> 00:57:06.670 the Highness Sheikh Maktoum in, in, in, in Dubai, 00:57:06.670 --> 00:57:09.269 not too long ago in Abu Dhabi, sorry. And they're, 00:57:09.429 --> 00:57:11.110 they're putting in massive, massive incentives. 00:57:11.530 --> 00:57:14.610 The biggest incentive of the Middle East compared 00:57:14.610 --> 00:57:17.190 to anyone else right now, it's, it's fairly liquid. 00:57:18.010 --> 00:57:21.030 So if you are well known, you're well connected, 00:57:21.170 --> 00:57:23.429 you have a good idea and you're able to build 00:57:23.429 --> 00:57:25.570 a good relationship, money will not be a problem. 00:57:25.920 --> 00:57:28.619 But what the problem there right now is, is infrastructure. 00:57:29.119 --> 00:57:31.019 There's not that many incubators. There's not 00:57:31.019 --> 00:57:34.480 that many partners, advisors, ecosystem. So ultimately, 00:57:34.780 --> 00:57:36.239 whatever you build, you will have to take it 00:57:36.239 --> 00:57:38.480 back out. You will then have to do the US UK 00:57:38.480 --> 00:57:42.699 India story anyways. But they've like the way 00:57:42.699 --> 00:57:44.659 they have been growing, you know, I mean, they 00:57:44.659 --> 00:57:48.500 turned a desert into a, you know, this gigantic 00:57:48.500 --> 00:57:51.510 city in like 30 years. All right, you know what 00:57:51.510 --> 00:57:54.650 US took 200 years, what UK took 300 years, what 00:57:54.650 --> 00:57:56.710 India took 80 years, these guys have done in 00:57:56.710 --> 00:57:59.809 30. So we're seeing that speed of growth and 00:57:59.809 --> 00:58:01.909 that speed and that opportunity definitely is 00:58:01.909 --> 00:58:03.829 there. So I think you should definitely consider 00:58:03.829 --> 00:58:07.050 it from a strategic point of view and make it. 00:58:07.260 --> 00:58:09.440 Piece of the play given obviously what you're 00:58:09.440 --> 00:58:12.420 building makes sense there But again, it depends 00:58:12.420 --> 00:58:14.780 on what you're building and what the viability 00:58:14.780 --> 00:58:16.980 is because like ultimately cash isn't everything 00:58:16.980 --> 00:58:19.280 you can have You know 10 million in cash, but 00:58:19.280 --> 00:58:21.460 if you don't know how to deploy it that 10 million 00:58:21.460 --> 00:58:23.619 is gonna go nowhere Right, you know There's companies 00:58:23.619 --> 00:58:26.559 who go to 10 15 million 20 even 100 million and 00:58:26.559 --> 00:58:28.079 then they just come down a couple years later 00:58:28.079 --> 00:58:30.320 because they don't know how to sustain it So 00:58:30.320 --> 00:58:32.820 money isn't the only part of the equation. It's 00:58:32.820 --> 00:58:34.840 a big part of the equation But how does it fit 00:58:34.840 --> 00:58:37.309 well with the other stuff around there? Interesting. 00:58:37.750 --> 00:58:39.289 And well, as we're kind of nearing the end of 00:58:39.289 --> 00:58:41.409 the podcast, where can people find you next? 00:58:42.190 --> 00:58:44.269 So it takes a couple of weeks for us to go live. 00:58:45.090 --> 00:58:46.849 So, you know, four weeks after this, where are 00:58:46.849 --> 00:58:49.210 you going to be? In four weeks time, I'll be 00:58:49.210 --> 00:58:53.989 in LA, and then San Francisco, and then Berlin, 00:58:54.449 --> 00:58:58.170 and then Santa Monica, and then Dusseldorf, and 00:58:58.170 --> 00:58:59.969 then back into the UK before going in there. 00:59:00.210 --> 00:59:01.769 Yeah. Because it's a lot of travel. It's a lot 00:59:01.769 --> 00:59:04.400 of travel. So catch me on an airport but no I 00:59:04.400 --> 00:59:06.320 think I think the best way is you know if you're 00:59:06.320 --> 00:59:09.300 a startup um who's you know access to funding 00:59:09.300 --> 00:59:11.380 I mean apply onto the website apply you know 00:59:11.380 --> 00:59:15.480 what's the website uh well if you're a so for 00:59:15.480 --> 00:59:18.099 arian ventures um you know we're still fundraising 00:59:18.099 --> 00:59:20.139 to complete the fund but hopefully that gets 00:59:20.139 --> 00:59:22.659 up and going by september time so that's www 00:59:22.659 --> 00:59:27.800 .arianventures .vc um We're looking at it but 00:59:27.800 --> 00:59:30.820 not too much looking at stars right now as we've 00:59:30.820 --> 00:59:33.780 got a pipeline and unless we see something completely 00:59:33.780 --> 00:59:35.840 ludicrous probably not gonna add it onto the 00:59:35.840 --> 00:59:38.300 pipeline now but that's the are in ventures one 00:59:38.300 --> 00:59:41.000 but the venture studio and the syndicate arm 00:59:41.000 --> 00:59:43.800 is. Get some ventures calm and get out of the 00:59:43.800 --> 00:59:46.300 calm so you can go on to the website and apply 00:59:46.300 --> 00:59:48.929 you know. message one of the team members. So 00:59:48.929 --> 00:59:50.469 probably best to message, you know, either my 00:59:50.469 --> 00:59:53.469 CTO or one of the associates or IRs or BD guys, 00:59:53.949 --> 00:59:56.369 because, you know, I get like a hundred messages, 00:59:56.369 --> 00:59:59.289 you know, a day. So if you want replies and one 00:59:59.289 --> 01:00:02.050 month delays, then probably go for me. I'll try 01:00:02.050 --> 01:00:05.150 my best. But I think the best way to reach out 01:00:05.150 --> 01:00:06.889 is go through a partnered network, go through 01:00:06.889 --> 01:00:09.530 a warm network, right? I never recommend someone 01:00:09.530 --> 01:00:12.420 to just open and be like, Hey, by the way, money 01:00:12.420 --> 01:00:14.920 you know it's like i saw you know money cool 01:00:14.920 --> 01:00:17.639 so it's a go through a warm network in the sense 01:00:17.639 --> 01:00:20.340 that they know i know you if they can sell to 01:00:20.340 --> 01:00:22.039 you they can be impressed by you and then you 01:00:22.039 --> 01:00:24.599 do an introduction i'm much more likely to respond 01:00:24.599 --> 01:00:26.420 i mean even then i'll still say ricardo let me 01:00:26.420 --> 01:00:28.320 see the deck let me see if it makes sense but 01:00:28.320 --> 01:00:30.400 i'm much more likely to to go because you're 01:00:30.400 --> 01:00:32.920 a trusted source so i would say find your trusted 01:00:32.920 --> 01:00:35.909 source build that and then go from there. Not 01:00:35.909 --> 01:00:37.750 everything has a rush. Some things have to be 01:00:37.750 --> 01:00:39.309 built on quality. People don't get that. They 01:00:39.309 --> 01:00:40.750 always think, oh, you know, a lot of investors 01:00:40.750 --> 01:00:42.690 can connect. I'm like, no, no, the process. I 01:00:42.690 --> 01:00:45.670 need to filter you out. Exactly. Before I introduce 01:00:45.670 --> 01:00:48.670 you and then you can still get a yes or no. Exactly. 01:00:49.139 --> 01:00:51.039 Otherwise, you'll get filtered out, right? Exactly. 01:00:51.219 --> 01:00:52.659 You want to expect the other person's time. You 01:00:52.659 --> 01:00:53.960 also want to be respectful of your own time. 01:00:54.099 --> 01:00:55.179 Exactly. So it's like, okay, let me see if he 01:00:55.179 --> 01:00:56.960 actually matches up. Yeah, exactly. You know, 01:00:56.960 --> 01:00:58.679 because if you just start sending me everything, 01:00:58.820 --> 01:01:01.619 I'm like, oh, this dude. And I have done that, 01:01:01.619 --> 01:01:05.239 right? You know, the guys I met initially, you 01:01:05.239 --> 01:01:07.579 know, in some of the events, cool dudes, whatever, 01:01:07.860 --> 01:01:09.460 but just started sending me deals every day, 01:01:09.480 --> 01:01:11.179 randomly started putting me in group chats and 01:01:11.179 --> 01:01:13.639 I just blocked them. I don't have time. Like, 01:01:13.699 --> 01:01:16.099 you know, you can't just stop. You have to value 01:01:16.099 --> 01:01:19.010 my time at the end of the day. But no. Build 01:01:19.010 --> 01:01:21.309 true value, build true connections. Go through 01:01:21.309 --> 01:01:23.489 a warm network is the best way to get intros. 01:01:24.190 --> 01:01:25.610 Emile, thank you so much for your time. It's 01:01:25.610 --> 01:01:26.989 been a pleasure. It's been a pleasure. Thank 01:01:26.989 --> 01:01:29.170 you very much. The podcast is also sponsored 01:01:29.170 --> 01:01:31.889 by Notion .so. Notion is offering six months 01:01:31.889 --> 01:01:34.429 for free for new users. Make sure you check out 01:01:34.429 --> 01:01:37.250 our website, the startupevents .co .uk to read 01:01:37.250 --> 01:01:39.789 in the software. This podcast is also sponsored 01:01:39.789 --> 01:01:43.449 by startupnetworks .co .uk. Startup Networks, 01:01:43.510 --> 01:01:45.869 it's an online forum where you can find all the 01:01:45.869 --> 01:01:48.090 resources you need to run your startup. from 01:01:48.090 --> 01:01:50.449 grants to investors to tips and tricks on how 01:01:50.449 --> 01:01:52.730 to be successful in your startup. This podcast 01:01:52.730 --> 01:01:56.650 is also sponsored by ODEV Tech. ODEV Tech is 01:01:56.650 --> 01:01:58.909 your premier software development partner. Make 01:01:58.909 --> 01:02:02.309 sure you check them out at odev .tech.