WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.859 Welcome to the Innovation Conversation, a podcast 00:00:02.859 --> 00:00:05.419 about innovators, both in business and real life. 00:00:05.879 --> 00:00:08.380 Hosted by myself, Ricardo Rescual and Harry McCona. 00:00:08.480 --> 00:00:11.699 This podcast is also sponsored by ODEV Tech. 00:00:12.439 --> 00:00:14.640 ODEV Tech is your premier software development 00:00:14.640 --> 00:00:18.019 partner. Make sure you check them out at odev 00:00:18.019 --> 00:00:22.399 .tech. The podcast is also sponsored by Notion 00:00:22.399 --> 00:00:25.359 .so. Notion is offering six months for free for 00:00:25.359 --> 00:00:27.820 new users. Make sure you check out our website, 00:00:28.039 --> 00:00:30.559 thestoreofevents .co .uk to read in the software. 00:00:30.780 --> 00:00:33.460 Hi, and welcome to another episode of the Innovation 00:00:33.460 --> 00:00:36.719 Conversation. Today we are joined by Diana Floreskov. 00:00:36.939 --> 00:00:38.780 Diana, welcome to the podcast. Thanks, Ricardo. 00:00:38.920 --> 00:00:41.179 Thanks so much for having me. Diana, would you 00:00:41.179 --> 00:00:42.960 like to introduce yourself to the audience, please? 00:00:43.200 --> 00:00:46.619 Yeah, of course. So let me see where to start. 00:00:48.440 --> 00:00:52.439 I founded a company called Media for Growth about 00:00:52.439 --> 00:00:55.439 three years ago. We are a media capital investor. 00:00:56.539 --> 00:01:00.280 We work with a lot of exciting publishers and 00:01:00.280 --> 00:01:05.359 broadcasters using their media space to support 00:01:05.359 --> 00:01:07.959 the next generation of consumer brands. And we 00:01:07.959 --> 00:01:11.019 do that by investing the advertising space from 00:01:11.019 --> 00:01:14.599 our media partners in these companies in exchange 00:01:14.599 --> 00:01:19.219 for ownership. for equity. This allows the brands 00:01:19.219 --> 00:01:22.900 that otherwise didn't think about going to TV 00:01:22.900 --> 00:01:25.939 or using brand advertising or perhaps experienced 00:01:25.939 --> 00:01:30.840 financial challenges to activate this space and 00:01:30.840 --> 00:01:34.099 do it in a very optimized way, getting access 00:01:34.099 --> 00:01:37.079 to amplified reach and extending that operational 00:01:37.079 --> 00:01:42.040 runway. Maybe I can tell you a bit about myself 00:01:42.040 --> 00:01:47.150 and how I got into this space. So I'm actually 00:01:47.150 --> 00:01:50.290 not a media expert or I didn't come from a traditional 00:01:50.290 --> 00:01:53.269 media background. I was, I call myself pretty 00:01:53.269 --> 00:01:56.510 much an outlier, but I've seen some of the interesting 00:01:56.510 --> 00:01:58.450 challenges and opportunities that space when 00:01:58.450 --> 00:02:01.230 I create a media for growth. But I spent the 00:02:01.230 --> 00:02:05.480 last 10, 15 years in tech. I worked in gaming 00:02:05.480 --> 00:02:09.319 studios to then even having my own attempt at 00:02:09.319 --> 00:02:12.240 running my own startup. And so I know exactly 00:02:12.240 --> 00:02:16.180 how to launch, well, succeed to an extent and 00:02:16.180 --> 00:02:19.139 then fail and close a company. So that to an 00:02:19.139 --> 00:02:21.719 extent helped tremendously to what we're doing 00:02:21.719 --> 00:02:24.580 today. And then through different experiences, 00:02:25.039 --> 00:02:27.340 I got propelled into accelerators and venture 00:02:27.340 --> 00:02:30.280 building studios and early stage investors, which 00:02:30.280 --> 00:02:32.599 either time We were working with hundreds of 00:02:32.599 --> 00:02:36.539 companies on an annual basis. There were networks 00:02:36.539 --> 00:02:39.080 of accelerators in many countries that we were 00:02:39.080 --> 00:02:41.819 operating. So I've seen a lot of the struggles 00:02:41.819 --> 00:02:44.139 that founders were experiencing building their 00:02:44.139 --> 00:02:48.020 brand. And here specifically, we're talking about 00:02:48.020 --> 00:02:50.360 consumer companies. Not that, of course, there's 00:02:50.360 --> 00:02:55.159 always infliction points and challenges for any 00:02:55.159 --> 00:02:57.300 company. But when we're talking specifically 00:02:57.300 --> 00:03:01.610 about this consumer, Emerging brands that's a 00:03:01.610 --> 00:03:04.289 specific sector that is still struggling in terms 00:03:04.289 --> 00:03:08.169 of attracting a lot of the PC dollars. Again 00:03:08.169 --> 00:03:11.509 as an outlier to to the space of okay well you 00:03:11.509 --> 00:03:14.409 are gonna spend forty percent of your. Revenue 00:03:14.409 --> 00:03:16.310 and advertising just looking at the companies 00:03:16.310 --> 00:03:19.310 that we're working with at a time but you're 00:03:19.310 --> 00:03:21.789 really struggling to fundraise try order fundraising 00:03:21.789 --> 00:03:24.750 is really slow there must be something out there. 00:03:24.840 --> 00:03:28.020 outside of say revenue -based financing options 00:03:28.020 --> 00:03:31.599 or venture debt that could propel these companies. 00:03:32.460 --> 00:03:35.060 And then I started looking into this space. Obviously 00:03:35.060 --> 00:03:38.939 media is a fascinating industry. It's a $750 00:03:38.939 --> 00:03:44.419 billion industry and you've got so much innovation 00:03:44.419 --> 00:03:48.960 coming into the space from retail media to TV, 00:03:49.020 --> 00:03:51.259 which right now is not just linear anymore. So 00:03:51.259 --> 00:03:54.759 I was like, okay, How can these brands access 00:03:54.759 --> 00:03:57.199 what we call brand advertising, doing it in an 00:03:57.199 --> 00:04:01.099 efficient manner? So that's how media for growth 00:04:01.099 --> 00:04:04.259 essentially started. There are a lot of funds 00:04:04.259 --> 00:04:06.960 doing this already in Europe. So we're not the 00:04:06.960 --> 00:04:11.639 first ones. And we also initially build a company 00:04:11.639 --> 00:04:14.139 to be an association of media capital funds. 00:04:14.800 --> 00:04:17.839 But over the last three years, it's been such 00:04:17.839 --> 00:04:20.560 an amazing journey supporting these companies. 00:04:20.560 --> 00:04:23.540 We've done multiple programs we have twenty four 00:04:23.540 --> 00:04:26.259 companies in our portfolio of alumni in europe 00:04:26.259 --> 00:04:28.959 we launch now in the u .s. so it's a very fascinating 00:04:28.959 --> 00:04:33.079 place. I think a lot of these things also shaped 00:04:33.079 --> 00:04:35.500 me as a person we talked about this just before 00:04:35.500 --> 00:04:39.699 we started the program the recording i was born 00:04:39.699 --> 00:04:42.899 and raised in romania. If I bring this model 00:04:42.899 --> 00:04:45.040 to Romania right now, it's probably not gonna 00:04:45.040 --> 00:04:47.120 fly. I think there's very different dynamics, 00:04:47.120 --> 00:04:49.959 as you know, between East and Western countries. 00:04:50.920 --> 00:04:55.439 Very early on, I left and I went to study in 00:04:55.439 --> 00:04:57.259 the UK and then I moved to different countries 00:04:57.259 --> 00:05:00.699 and been exposed to different experiences, now 00:05:00.699 --> 00:05:05.660 sitting in New York talking to you. And yeah, 00:05:05.759 --> 00:05:08.779 I think all these different, you know, countries, 00:05:09.040 --> 00:05:11.019 cultures, we talked about languages and how people, 00:05:11.019 --> 00:05:15.620 you know, react to when they speak, you know, 00:05:15.800 --> 00:05:18.240 somebody's language and how they think really, 00:05:18.240 --> 00:05:21.220 really shaped what we're doing today at Media 00:05:21.220 --> 00:05:23.740 for Growth and also the ambition to support. 00:05:23.930 --> 00:05:27.410 these companies cross borders and being a global 00:05:27.410 --> 00:05:30.050 platform for media capital investments. Did you 00:05:30.050 --> 00:05:34.290 find many differences when you moved from Romania 00:05:34.290 --> 00:05:37.069 to the UK, but then also from the business perspective, 00:05:37.129 --> 00:05:40.029 from the UK to the US? Were there many differences 00:05:40.029 --> 00:05:42.329 or actually businesses, business type of thing? 00:05:43.509 --> 00:05:45.110 No, I think there's definitely differences, although 00:05:45.110 --> 00:05:48.730 I think a lot of people assume and to a certain 00:05:48.730 --> 00:05:50.970 extent, rightfully so, there's obviously similarities 00:05:50.970 --> 00:05:54.300 between US cultures and UK and Australian, right? 00:05:55.259 --> 00:05:57.740 Well, one thing is probably the language, but 00:05:57.740 --> 00:06:01.180 then leaving that aside, I think business -wise, 00:06:01.839 --> 00:06:04.819 it's a different culture out here. And I've only 00:06:04.819 --> 00:06:06.720 been, I mean, I lived in Austin, speaking of 00:06:06.720 --> 00:06:08.740 countries and moving places. I lived in Austin, 00:06:08.779 --> 00:06:12.980 Texas for about six months back in 2019. A very 00:06:12.980 --> 00:06:16.040 fascinating place to be back then. A lot of people 00:06:16.040 --> 00:06:19.139 were moving down from California. Yeah, exactly. 00:06:19.300 --> 00:06:21.339 It was like becoming a tech hub. I was there 00:06:21.339 --> 00:06:26.139 again, well, basically, six years forward for 00:06:26.139 --> 00:06:29.259 South by just two weeks ago. And fascinating 00:06:29.259 --> 00:06:31.379 how many consumer funds have been established 00:06:31.379 --> 00:06:33.579 in the meantime, how many more consumer companies. 00:06:34.920 --> 00:06:39.339 But then I think the one difference between US 00:06:39.339 --> 00:06:41.639 and UK, especially if we're talking about this 00:06:41.639 --> 00:06:46.750 industry and money and venture and so on. It's 00:06:46.750 --> 00:06:50.589 a market that has, I think people move much faster. 00:06:50.689 --> 00:06:53.449 Valuations are much higher. Minimum ticket sizes 00:06:53.449 --> 00:06:56.990 are much higher. We see companies even coming 00:06:56.990 --> 00:07:00.389 to us, approaching us from a media standpoint, 00:07:00.610 --> 00:07:04.610 pre -revenue, raising $5 million on a valuation 00:07:04.610 --> 00:07:08.149 of like, I don't know, 20, 30 million. I mean, 00:07:08.189 --> 00:07:10.470 you know this, right? Yeah, that doesn't happen 00:07:10.470 --> 00:07:13.290 in Europe. You don't get that in Europe, right? 00:07:13.290 --> 00:07:17.399 It's a very different... Dynamic i think investors 00:07:17.399 --> 00:07:20.500 are also a lot less risk adverse in this market 00:07:20.500 --> 00:07:23.500 and then if i'm talking more specific about media 00:07:23.500 --> 00:07:26.959 and media partners so broadcasters publishers 00:07:26.959 --> 00:07:33.420 there's definitely a lot of. Enthusiasm and openness 00:07:33.420 --> 00:07:37.459 to start and to try innovation models like media 00:07:37.459 --> 00:07:42.920 capsule europe is. interestingly enough, actually 00:07:42.920 --> 00:07:45.579 leading the space. So there's a lot of funds 00:07:45.579 --> 00:07:47.620 doing this in Europe, and that's where it started. 00:07:48.199 --> 00:07:52.879 But it's still rather slow at gaining, let's 00:07:52.879 --> 00:07:56.259 say, mass adoption or trying to convince some 00:07:56.259 --> 00:07:58.699 of the funds to do a lot more. And what I mean 00:07:58.699 --> 00:08:01.660 by a lot more is spending more, right? I mean, 00:08:01.759 --> 00:08:04.600 here we have partners that spend 3 % of their 00:08:04.600 --> 00:08:08.160 revenue. on just media capital investments, we're 00:08:08.160 --> 00:08:12.819 talking about over $100 million a year, right? 00:08:14.579 --> 00:08:17.759 That's not, yeah, it's hard to compare, right? 00:08:17.759 --> 00:08:21.220 It's a bigger market. I think there's just a 00:08:21.220 --> 00:08:23.420 different appetite for risk and for doing business. 00:08:23.620 --> 00:08:27.040 And everyone is like, let's do business, you 00:08:27.040 --> 00:08:30.879 know? It's very, very focused, very... efficient 00:08:30.879 --> 00:08:34.639 in that way. And I think culturally as well between 00:08:34.639 --> 00:08:39.240 UK and US, people are a lot more direct here. 00:08:40.159 --> 00:08:43.580 It's something that I usually kind of I relate 00:08:43.580 --> 00:08:46.879 to, probably because of my Eastern European roots 00:08:46.879 --> 00:08:50.320 in a way, we tend to be a lot more direct. As 00:08:50.320 --> 00:08:52.419 you know, sitting in London, that's not always 00:08:52.419 --> 00:08:55.509 the case. If you're talking to me i'm always 00:08:55.509 --> 00:08:58.409 super direct which is a good thing i think the 00:08:58.409 --> 00:09:00.710 people you know i guess fellow brits right friends 00:09:00.710 --> 00:09:04.169 that you probably know or yeah so it's just yeah. 00:09:05.490 --> 00:09:07.830 I think yeah this this plus and minuses everywhere 00:09:07.830 --> 00:09:10.470 but i'm also trying to adjust to so one thing 00:09:10.470 --> 00:09:13.440 that i was actually told recently. is that we 00:09:13.440 --> 00:09:16.440 are not bold enough in the statements that we 00:09:16.440 --> 00:09:18.720 make here in the US. I'm like, what do you mean? 00:09:19.519 --> 00:09:23.740 And you raise $30 million to invest in these 00:09:23.740 --> 00:09:26.879 consumer brands. I'm like, yeah, but we've got 00:09:26.879 --> 00:09:28.580 a long way to go. We're probably going to go 00:09:28.580 --> 00:09:31.240 up to 50 by the end of the year. In the UK, you 00:09:31.240 --> 00:09:33.259 don't really brag about these things. You're 00:09:33.259 --> 00:09:37.360 like, OK, you don't. And here, yeah, it's a very 00:09:37.360 --> 00:09:40.379 different culture. It's very loud. People are 00:09:40.379 --> 00:09:43.039 like, yeah, we've done this. You know, but equally, 00:09:43.080 --> 00:09:45.039 they are very more open to talk about failure. 00:09:45.679 --> 00:09:47.700 You know, this is how we felt. That's why we 00:09:47.700 --> 00:09:49.799 felt. And it's a good thing. You know, people 00:09:49.799 --> 00:09:52.639 look at this. This is a good thing over here. 00:09:52.759 --> 00:09:54.980 You cannot fail. You need to be successful. And 00:09:54.980 --> 00:09:57.360 I think the UK, they kind of get they're doing 00:09:57.360 --> 00:09:58.899 a little bit better than most other countries, 00:09:59.179 --> 00:10:01.500 especially in Europe. But if you fail, let's 00:10:01.500 --> 00:10:03.200 say in Germany, it's the end of the world. I 00:10:03.200 --> 00:10:04.519 mean, you probably know this better than I do, 00:10:04.519 --> 00:10:06.960 but it's horrible. You cannot be a successful 00:10:06.960 --> 00:10:09.000 businessman and have several failures. No, no, 00:10:09.000 --> 00:10:11.940 no. They all need to be massive successes. And 00:10:11.940 --> 00:10:14.159 that kind of stops people from innovating and 00:10:14.159 --> 00:10:18.159 people from taking risks. I agree. I was curious. 00:10:18.379 --> 00:10:20.659 I mean, the transition, obviously, we discussed 00:10:20.659 --> 00:10:26.799 it. On a personal level, was there anything that 00:10:26.799 --> 00:10:29.240 really shocked you apart from the way that they're 00:10:29.240 --> 00:10:31.159 obviously more direct and more willing to take 00:10:31.159 --> 00:10:33.399 risks? Is there anything that you really don't 00:10:33.399 --> 00:10:35.720 think I can do this or actually I'm very comfortable 00:10:35.720 --> 00:10:38.620 here with the final speak my language? Here in 00:10:38.620 --> 00:10:43.320 the US, right? Moving out here. I would leave 00:10:43.320 --> 00:10:45.799 politics aside because I think we don't want 00:10:45.799 --> 00:10:51.320 to make this podcast about it. And also because 00:10:51.320 --> 00:10:54.059 I think there's a lot of negative headlines in 00:10:54.059 --> 00:10:55.919 the news already, as they are. I think we don't 00:10:55.919 --> 00:10:59.299 want to add to that. Something shocking, I think. 00:11:01.720 --> 00:11:04.799 I wouldn't say shocking. I think in a way, it's 00:11:04.799 --> 00:11:07.539 also probably just a really nice surprise about, 00:11:07.539 --> 00:11:12.259 I think, the openness of media companies when 00:11:12.259 --> 00:11:15.700 it comes to, I mean, again, we're a fairly new 00:11:15.700 --> 00:11:17.460 brand in the US, right? We don't really have 00:11:17.460 --> 00:11:19.120 an established presence here. We're building 00:11:19.120 --> 00:11:23.480 that. And yes, we've got this fantastic win and 00:11:23.480 --> 00:11:27.080 closing the initial close of 30 million and having 00:11:27.080 --> 00:11:30.860 two fantastic media companies as our LPs. But 00:11:30.860 --> 00:11:34.110 then US is such a huge market, you know, so fragmented 00:11:34.110 --> 00:11:38.169 when it comes to media. And even so you get into, 00:11:38.269 --> 00:11:40.730 I mean, I get into all sorts of, I get into meetings 00:11:40.730 --> 00:11:43.889 with like C -level people sitting down and listening 00:11:43.889 --> 00:11:47.149 to you and really thinking about this model. 00:11:48.169 --> 00:11:51.169 And the surprise, which is not shocking, but 00:11:51.169 --> 00:11:53.649 it's a nice surprise is that we haven't really 00:11:53.649 --> 00:11:58.049 received a no in terms of investing with us, 00:11:58.190 --> 00:12:01.429 but rather, is it a good time now? Or, you know, 00:12:01.710 --> 00:12:04.190 there are always companies that are more innovative 00:12:04.190 --> 00:12:07.450 or like they want to be the, you know, the kind 00:12:07.450 --> 00:12:10.610 of the early adopters, right? Clearly companies 00:12:10.610 --> 00:12:12.710 like Sinclair or Televisa that have done these 00:12:12.710 --> 00:12:14.809 investments and they invest with us. But there's 00:12:14.809 --> 00:12:17.750 other publishers that understand the value of 00:12:17.750 --> 00:12:19.909 this. And they just probably just want to see, 00:12:20.049 --> 00:12:21.610 okay, I want to, I want to see a bit more traction. 00:12:21.629 --> 00:12:23.450 I want to see how this model evolves before I 00:12:23.450 --> 00:12:26.509 kind of like dip my toes, which is good and bad, 00:12:26.509 --> 00:12:28.110 right? You don't want to wait too long because 00:12:28.110 --> 00:12:31.309 then it gets all. But I think it's been really 00:12:31.309 --> 00:12:34.690 fascinating compared to, let's say UK or other 00:12:34.690 --> 00:12:37.629 markets in Europe that it's been a lot slower. 00:12:37.929 --> 00:12:42.549 The adoption is a lot slower and it doesn't always 00:12:42.549 --> 00:12:45.490 make it to the corporate agenda. It's like, oh 00:12:45.490 --> 00:12:46.769 yeah, it's a, it's, you know, something that 00:12:46.769 --> 00:12:48.909 we think about where here is like, okay, how 00:12:48.909 --> 00:12:51.429 can, how do we diversify revenue? Right? How 00:12:51.429 --> 00:12:55.690 do we accelerate growth? Everyone is about growth, 00:12:55.750 --> 00:13:00.860 business. And as long as you can explain, articulate 00:13:00.860 --> 00:13:02.779 how you're going to make business, how you're 00:13:02.779 --> 00:13:05.320 going to drive business for that company, then 00:13:05.320 --> 00:13:07.299 you're basically kind of in the game, right? 00:13:07.320 --> 00:13:10.919 So I think it's been, it's a very transactional, 00:13:11.519 --> 00:13:14.500 but very useful culture if that's what you're 00:13:14.500 --> 00:13:16.500 in for, right? If you're here to do business, 00:13:16.720 --> 00:13:18.960 then people are down for doing business. Do you 00:13:18.960 --> 00:13:21.559 think there's a bigger desire for growth overall 00:13:21.559 --> 00:13:23.980 in the U .S. compared to the UK, for example? 00:13:24.179 --> 00:13:26.440 Yeah, I think that mindset has never changed. 00:13:26.809 --> 00:13:29.129 I think the mindset has always been with the 00:13:29.129 --> 00:13:32.809 American culture and it's always about growth. 00:13:33.789 --> 00:13:35.409 A lot more growth. Although we're seeing obviously, 00:13:35.549 --> 00:13:39.049 I mean, growth also comes from very, you know, 00:13:39.269 --> 00:13:41.090 interesting places right now. I mean, we're looking 00:13:41.090 --> 00:13:43.350 at a lot of Australian companies, for example. 00:13:43.529 --> 00:13:45.399 I think there's a lot of Australian... very interesting 00:13:45.399 --> 00:13:47.679 Australian listed companies actually launching 00:13:47.679 --> 00:13:51.080 in the U .S. I think we're also seeing a lot 00:13:51.080 --> 00:13:56.440 of growth from, you know, let's say France or 00:13:56.440 --> 00:14:00.159 Germany or Central Europe, Poland, you know, 00:14:00.440 --> 00:14:03.480 that is becoming more of a tech hub. But I think 00:14:03.480 --> 00:14:07.059 it's, yeah, nothing changed, I think, in terms 00:14:07.059 --> 00:14:08.899 of the growth mindset that you have in the U 00:14:08.899 --> 00:14:11.480 .S. So would you advise like a startup to move 00:14:11.480 --> 00:14:14.039 to the U .S. if they want to get bigger? It's 00:14:14.039 --> 00:14:16.539 a tough question because it doesn't suit everyone. 00:14:17.120 --> 00:14:20.059 And I think, especially for what we do with media 00:14:20.059 --> 00:14:23.399 for growth, one approach that we would take, 00:14:23.460 --> 00:14:25.120 because we do support a lot of international 00:14:25.120 --> 00:14:28.700 companies coming to the US. In fact, majority 00:14:28.700 --> 00:14:31.139 of our conversations and pipeline originates 00:14:31.139 --> 00:14:32.940 out of Europe, because that's where we did most 00:14:32.940 --> 00:14:38.460 of the work. We normally see companies thinking 00:14:38.460 --> 00:14:41.480 about US and then going to New York first. That's 00:14:41.480 --> 00:14:44.580 kind of like For them, U .S. is New York, especially 00:14:44.580 --> 00:14:47.039 as a consumer brand, right? That's the first 00:14:47.039 --> 00:14:52.440 stop into the U .S. I think it depends on, I 00:14:52.440 --> 00:14:55.259 think a lot of companies make that mistake too 00:14:55.259 --> 00:14:58.100 early on into their journey and don't have sufficient 00:14:58.100 --> 00:15:01.519 funding or branding expertise or people on the 00:15:01.519 --> 00:15:03.580 ground to make it happen. And the other danger 00:15:03.580 --> 00:15:06.100 is to try to assume that U .S. is one country. 00:15:06.399 --> 00:15:09.539 Which, yeah, I mean, it is obviously, but it's 00:15:09.539 --> 00:15:11.919 not at the same time, different cultures. Culturally 00:15:11.919 --> 00:15:14.159 speaking, I'm also learning this myself, right? 00:15:14.220 --> 00:15:15.740 I think culturally speaking, the way to look 00:15:15.740 --> 00:15:19.539 at it is almost like three different sort of 00:15:19.539 --> 00:15:21.840 parts of US. You've got East Coast, West Coast, 00:15:21.860 --> 00:15:23.879 and then kind of the Southern part, which is 00:15:23.879 --> 00:15:27.740 also culturally different. But I also think that 00:15:27.740 --> 00:15:33.279 the way to, yeah, trying to conquer US, even 00:15:33.279 --> 00:15:35.299 if we're thinking about an advertising campaign, 00:15:35.829 --> 00:15:39.389 um all at once it's um it wouldn't be just a 00:15:39.389 --> 00:15:42.350 mistake i think would be very very reckless so 00:15:42.350 --> 00:15:44.889 the way we're looking at this and i would probably 00:15:44.889 --> 00:15:47.809 advise a company if they are really sold in the 00:15:47.809 --> 00:15:50.309 u .s and they have customers in the u .s and 00:15:50.309 --> 00:15:52.269 they're trying to build a presence in the u .s 00:15:52.269 --> 00:15:55.350 try to look at it and do it almost market by 00:15:55.350 --> 00:15:59.409 market and we normally have a lot of our media 00:15:59.409 --> 00:16:02.029 properties and exposure in east coast and west 00:16:02.029 --> 00:16:05.080 coast and i think that's actually a really good 00:16:05.080 --> 00:16:08.460 test and launch pad, right? Try New York, try 00:16:08.460 --> 00:16:10.740 in the market, do that, you know, experiment 00:16:10.740 --> 00:16:14.039 and then try to scale faster into other states. 00:16:14.240 --> 00:16:17.700 Um, but yeah, I, I think there's a lot of interesting 00:16:17.700 --> 00:16:19.700 places outside of us where a lot of people, a 00:16:19.700 --> 00:16:21.659 lot of startups go to right now. I think there's 00:16:21.659 --> 00:16:26.879 a lot of, um, interest on in Southeast Asia, 00:16:27.299 --> 00:16:30.759 Singapore. Obviously, Middle East has been also 00:16:30.759 --> 00:16:34.720 growing a lot. India. as well. India, although 00:16:34.720 --> 00:16:37.240 it has of course challenges like culturally speaking 00:16:37.240 --> 00:16:40.340 and the language is such a, you know, it's a 00:16:40.340 --> 00:16:42.639 tough one to crack. There's so many dialects, 00:16:43.259 --> 00:16:48.700 but yeah, although we still see probably three 00:16:48.700 --> 00:16:50.919 in five calls with companies, they do want to 00:16:50.919 --> 00:16:55.659 go to the U .S. That's the big goal. Yeah, I 00:16:55.659 --> 00:16:57.620 meet a lot of people like that. Their main goal 00:16:57.620 --> 00:17:00.940 is how do we go from the UK to the U .S.? Because 00:17:00.940 --> 00:17:03.529 obviously, People are just aware that investors 00:17:03.529 --> 00:17:06.069 are putting more money. It's a bigger market. 00:17:06.170 --> 00:17:08.269 And if you manage to get into that market and 00:17:08.269 --> 00:17:10.390 manage to get, let's say, be very successful 00:17:10.390 --> 00:17:11.849 in New York, you're actually doing better than 00:17:11.849 --> 00:17:13.869 if you were successful in the UK, for example, 00:17:13.869 --> 00:17:15.390 because it's just a much bigger market, a lot 00:17:15.390 --> 00:17:17.430 more people. But yeah, it's always a challenge, 00:17:17.549 --> 00:17:19.109 isn't it? Especially for early stage startups 00:17:19.109 --> 00:17:23.250 like how do I even get started? It's a gamble. 00:17:24.049 --> 00:17:25.690 Do you think, you know, from the investor perspective, 00:17:25.869 --> 00:17:29.410 you think US investors are open to listen to 00:17:29.410 --> 00:17:31.710 European companies? overall, they actually sit 00:17:31.710 --> 00:17:32.890 down and say, you know, it's a good idea. Let 00:17:32.890 --> 00:17:35.089 me put some money in, or they actually prefer 00:17:35.089 --> 00:17:37.230 if you just move everything to the US, then just 00:17:37.230 --> 00:17:40.250 operate in the US. I see. I think there's kind 00:17:40.250 --> 00:17:43.930 of this two, probably two sides to this. I think 00:17:43.930 --> 00:17:45.750 there's a lot of investors that are definitely 00:17:45.750 --> 00:17:47.910 looking at innovation coming into the US market. 00:17:48.589 --> 00:17:52.470 So very open to discussing to European companies, 00:17:52.630 --> 00:17:55.009 especially when it comes to companies that come 00:17:55.009 --> 00:17:59.369 with heavy IP, deep tech. There's a lot of, you 00:17:59.369 --> 00:18:02.349 know, uh, technologies originating out of the 00:18:02.349 --> 00:18:04.450 European market. And naturally, as you said, 00:18:04.589 --> 00:18:06.230 a lot of these companies are drawn into the U 00:18:06.230 --> 00:18:08.970 S because of the investors, whether the investors 00:18:08.970 --> 00:18:12.509 would invest in or ask the company to relocate 00:18:12.509 --> 00:18:15.710 to the U S I think it's probably right to assume 00:18:15.710 --> 00:18:18.109 that, yeah, most of them would, would ask the 00:18:18.109 --> 00:18:20.910 company to probably relocate and have changed 00:18:20.910 --> 00:18:24.650 her quarters to the U S. Um, I would also think 00:18:24.650 --> 00:18:28.559 as a brand, why wouldn't you? If that's your 00:18:28.559 --> 00:18:31.160 big market, and in the end you're thinking about 00:18:31.160 --> 00:18:34.160 where you're going to scale, like whatever technology 00:18:34.160 --> 00:18:36.180 you have or consumer product you have, if that's 00:18:36.180 --> 00:18:38.140 your biggest market, then that's probably where 00:18:38.140 --> 00:18:42.200 you should be. Unless there are specific reasons, 00:18:42.599 --> 00:18:45.180 sitting in the UK right now, if you have UK listeners, 00:18:45.619 --> 00:18:48.140 we have a lot of interesting schemes for investors 00:18:48.140 --> 00:18:51.980 like SEIS and EIS. That, of course, comes with 00:18:51.980 --> 00:18:54.039 its own sets of limitations. You've got to have 00:18:54.039 --> 00:18:56.859 the company headquartered in the UK. But you've 00:18:56.859 --> 00:18:58.779 got to put things into balance, right? Do you 00:18:58.779 --> 00:19:01.380 want to raise, I don't know, five million through 00:19:01.380 --> 00:19:04.720 EIS and have the company in the UK? But it's 00:19:04.720 --> 00:19:07.279 going to take a lot longer, perhaps, or it's 00:19:07.279 --> 00:19:09.539 a slow process for you. Or if you want to move 00:19:09.539 --> 00:19:12.900 to the US and flip the headquarter to the US 00:19:12.900 --> 00:19:16.079 and have access to multiple investors, if that's 00:19:16.079 --> 00:19:20.049 the case. Is there any such scheme in the U .S. 00:19:20.049 --> 00:19:22.369 or something similar? I think there is actually. 00:19:23.650 --> 00:19:25.849 I don't want to butcher his name, but there is 00:19:25.849 --> 00:19:28.730 a scheme for small businesses. It's not as attractive 00:19:28.730 --> 00:19:35.769 as EIS and SEIS. I think investors get a certain 00:19:35.769 --> 00:19:38.109 percentage, but I believe it's not in a form 00:19:38.109 --> 00:19:40.630 of tax relief. I think there is another incentive 00:19:40.630 --> 00:19:44.799 for them. But there is one scheme for, I think, 00:19:44.960 --> 00:19:48.579 call for small businesses investment scheme. 00:19:49.440 --> 00:19:51.720 I think EIS and SCIS has been a game changer 00:19:51.720 --> 00:19:56.720 for the UK startup ecosystem. We are actually 00:19:56.720 --> 00:19:59.240 SCIS qualified. The company is only three years 00:19:59.240 --> 00:20:02.119 old. We're actually, we still have the SCIS allowance 00:20:02.119 --> 00:20:05.920 and then rolling into EIS. And I've seen markets, 00:20:06.099 --> 00:20:08.299 I think Poland actually try to replicate that 00:20:08.299 --> 00:20:11.539 scheme. about four or five years ago. So a lot 00:20:11.539 --> 00:20:15.160 of more markets are starting to notice what the 00:20:15.160 --> 00:20:17.500 UK has done. I think it's now coming up to 10 00:20:17.500 --> 00:20:19.559 years or so since the scheme has been in place. 00:20:20.180 --> 00:20:22.299 It's a really good scheme as well. I talked with 00:20:22.299 --> 00:20:23.960 a lot of UK companies that want to move to the 00:20:23.960 --> 00:20:26.980 UK precisely because of the scheme, because the 00:20:26.980 --> 00:20:28.940 risk for investors in their native country is 00:20:28.940 --> 00:20:31.740 always very high. Whereas in the UK, of course, 00:20:31.759 --> 00:20:33.480 they can offset a little bit of that risk by 00:20:33.480 --> 00:20:37.430 being part of the SEIS scheme. I was actually 00:20:37.430 --> 00:20:43.650 in a lecture yesterday with the former Chancellor 00:20:43.650 --> 00:20:46.289 Philip Hammond and he was saying one of the biggest 00:20:46.289 --> 00:20:49.329 issues the UK has or is struggling with is when 00:20:49.329 --> 00:20:52.529 a company reaches a certain size, series B, series 00:20:52.529 --> 00:20:57.190 C, they normally try and go to the US market 00:20:57.190 --> 00:20:59.430 and not stay in London anymore because it's not 00:20:59.430 --> 00:21:02.119 going to be as profitable. What do you think 00:21:02.119 --> 00:21:04.160 Europe needs to do to actually have the company 00:21:04.160 --> 00:21:06.779 stay here instead of moving to the US? I'm sure 00:21:06.779 --> 00:21:10.759 there's a lot of things. Yeah, we could probably 00:21:10.759 --> 00:21:15.640 do a whole webinar just on that. I think there's 00:21:15.640 --> 00:21:19.779 so many pillars to this from changing investors 00:21:19.779 --> 00:21:23.099 mindset to governments being a lot more bullish 00:21:23.099 --> 00:21:28.730 to I mean, when was it, I think, a few weeks 00:21:28.730 --> 00:21:31.809 ago that China, the Chinese government announced, 00:21:31.829 --> 00:21:35.869 I think, over a hundred billion dollar fund to 00:21:35.869 --> 00:21:40.650 invest in AI. And yeah, that just completely, 00:21:40.750 --> 00:21:44.170 you know, just puts a lot of the Western countries 00:21:44.170 --> 00:21:47.029 sort of like a shame when it comes to the level 00:21:47.029 --> 00:21:51.329 of capital deployed into new technologies. I 00:21:51.329 --> 00:21:55.720 think it's also that When you reach that stage 00:21:55.720 --> 00:21:58.759 and depending on what market like what kind of 00:21:58.759 --> 00:22:00.480 if you especially if you are a deep tech company 00:22:00.480 --> 00:22:02.720 For example, or if you're a if you're building 00:22:02.720 --> 00:22:06.920 a medical device, right? There's a lot of funding 00:22:06.920 --> 00:22:09.900 that you also need to get started at first Which 00:22:09.900 --> 00:22:14.740 is not that easy to to access sometimes in Europe 00:22:14.740 --> 00:22:17.539 There's a lot of schemes that are supporting 00:22:17.539 --> 00:22:21.619 this right as you know, there's EIF as well the 00:22:21.619 --> 00:22:24.990 European funds that has been backing a lot of 00:22:24.990 --> 00:22:27.930 different initiatives, accelerators, and so on. 00:22:28.950 --> 00:22:36.269 I think a lot of the investors in Western countries 00:22:36.269 --> 00:22:39.390 should, well, it's easier to say it should replicate 00:22:39.390 --> 00:22:41.930 the mentality and what we have here in the US. 00:22:43.450 --> 00:22:46.069 But I also think we're actually getting there. 00:22:46.230 --> 00:22:50.630 I think if I look at the level of the size of 00:22:50.630 --> 00:22:56.990 the investments, or the valuations. That gap 00:22:56.990 --> 00:23:00.150 is still a gap, but that gap is starting to close 00:23:00.150 --> 00:23:03.210 a lot more. There's actually a lot of interesting 00:23:03.210 --> 00:23:05.609 crunch based reports that have been published 00:23:05.609 --> 00:23:08.049 which actually show that compared to 10 years 00:23:08.049 --> 00:23:10.589 ago, where you see a massive discrepancy between 00:23:10.589 --> 00:23:15.109 how much a fund would invest in a Series A here 00:23:15.109 --> 00:23:18.569 compared to the U .S., right now that gap is 00:23:18.569 --> 00:23:23.839 basically closing. I think that what I see a 00:23:23.839 --> 00:23:25.900 lot of companies is struggling even if I look 00:23:25.900 --> 00:23:29.299 at media for growth, we are a company we're essentially 00:23:29.299 --> 00:23:33.220 bootstrapped. We have just very strategic advisors 00:23:33.220 --> 00:23:36.160 that have been, that are invested into the business. 00:23:36.960 --> 00:23:40.200 And if I look at the boards that I'm running, 00:23:40.539 --> 00:23:43.180 we're actually, there's no, we don't have, and 00:23:43.180 --> 00:23:45.339 the companies are caught in the UK, we don't 00:23:45.339 --> 00:23:49.799 actually have. a British person on the board. 00:23:50.740 --> 00:23:53.420 We're a very diverse team and I really love that, 00:23:53.579 --> 00:23:56.339 but it's actually all the investors and the support 00:23:56.339 --> 00:23:59.339 has actually come outside of the UK, from France 00:23:59.339 --> 00:24:03.960 and Germany to having US advisors. And this is 00:24:03.960 --> 00:24:06.380 something that looking through cap tables and 00:24:06.380 --> 00:24:09.240 so on, I see a lot of high network individuals 00:24:09.240 --> 00:24:13.740 and investors in UK companies that are non -UK, 00:24:13.880 --> 00:24:17.539 right? So how do we get - Yeah, how do we get 00:24:17.539 --> 00:24:21.480 more UK investors, you know, in in this business? 00:24:21.559 --> 00:24:27.059 So yeah, I think there's a lot a lot of different 00:24:27.059 --> 00:24:30.000 strategic pillars that have to be have to be 00:24:30.000 --> 00:24:32.779 activated. Interesting. No, I'm curious. One 00:24:32.779 --> 00:24:34.299 thing because obviously there's a lot of startups 00:24:34.299 --> 00:24:37.140 listening to this. I'm curious on your own journey 00:24:37.140 --> 00:24:39.319 and how you managed to move from one thing to 00:24:39.319 --> 00:24:41.579 the other and then being the place you are right 00:24:41.579 --> 00:24:43.980 now. I mean, it must have been quite hard to 00:24:43.980 --> 00:24:46.859 do all that. So, you know, what do you do when 00:24:46.859 --> 00:24:50.440 you're doing things that get hard? What keeps 00:24:50.440 --> 00:24:55.200 you pushing forward? Right. Well, probably the 00:24:55.200 --> 00:24:59.359 first thing is to just, yeah, I'm sure we all 00:24:59.359 --> 00:25:02.380 have, you know, those really low days, right, 00:25:02.559 --> 00:25:04.400 in the journey, especially when you're building 00:25:04.400 --> 00:25:10.069 a company. I think the hardest thing For us, 00:25:10.369 --> 00:25:15.029 for me, when I started the business was, well, 00:25:15.769 --> 00:25:17.529 there's many challenges and I think all of them 00:25:17.529 --> 00:25:20.390 kind of combined created this interesting storm. 00:25:20.829 --> 00:25:24.869 One, you're in a space that naturally is challenged 00:25:24.869 --> 00:25:28.309 and challenging. I can't think of any industry 00:25:28.309 --> 00:25:31.690 that is more, being more disrupted than media 00:25:31.690 --> 00:25:35.160 right now, anywhere you look. Whether we're talking 00:25:35.160 --> 00:25:37.740 about just TV and then TV itself is disrupted, 00:25:37.819 --> 00:25:40.180 or if you look at the broader media landscape, 00:25:41.200 --> 00:25:43.900 there's so much disruption coming from all different 00:25:43.900 --> 00:25:48.779 angles, retail media, measurements. If you are 00:25:48.779 --> 00:25:51.819 a CMO of a consumer brand, I mean, those guys, 00:25:51.940 --> 00:25:53.740 I think they're having the toughest time right 00:25:53.740 --> 00:25:57.420 now trying to create an omnichannel strategy 00:25:57.420 --> 00:26:00.680 and trying to make the case for marketing in 00:26:00.680 --> 00:26:04.099 the boardroom. That was one challenge for me. 00:26:04.200 --> 00:26:06.240 I think initially just kind of wrapping your 00:26:06.240 --> 00:26:10.900 head around the media space. Another challenge 00:26:10.900 --> 00:26:14.359 was starting a business also with, you know, 00:26:14.500 --> 00:26:17.420 if you are bootstrapped and companies listening 00:26:17.420 --> 00:26:19.259 to this, they probably know exactly what I'm 00:26:19.259 --> 00:26:21.460 referring to, but obviously you're always kind 00:26:21.460 --> 00:26:25.039 of in that kind of cash preservation mode and 00:26:25.039 --> 00:26:27.680 it's good because you learn to do a lot more 00:26:27.680 --> 00:26:30.259 with less and you get a lot of resilience and 00:26:30.259 --> 00:26:33.119 you build a company which is I think fundamentally 00:26:33.119 --> 00:26:36.299 are more stable and a lot more healthy. I think 00:26:36.299 --> 00:26:39.039 healthier in terms of reaching profitability 00:26:39.039 --> 00:26:42.740 as opposed to having a, you know, building a 00:26:42.740 --> 00:26:44.859 company at an idea stage, already being funded, 00:26:44.859 --> 00:26:46.799 having a few millions in the bank, and then you 00:26:46.799 --> 00:26:49.519 have a different kind of appetite for risk and 00:26:49.519 --> 00:26:51.859 probably a different way of the way you're looking 00:26:51.859 --> 00:26:56.380 at spending. So that was for us a challenge, 00:26:56.380 --> 00:26:59.440 but also a good necessary challenge. I feel this 00:26:59.440 --> 00:27:02.349 company completely bootstrapped. you know, up 00:27:02.349 --> 00:27:05.690 to this point, we still haven't raised extended 00:27:05.690 --> 00:27:09.670 funding. Which is quite impressive, by the way. 00:27:09.750 --> 00:27:12.190 Well done. That's quite an achievement. Yeah, 00:27:12.470 --> 00:27:15.309 it's good. But also like going back to that resilience 00:27:15.309 --> 00:27:18.170 point, you get to a point where you are being 00:27:18.170 --> 00:27:20.630 in a market like the US, right? Speaking of advice, 00:27:21.130 --> 00:27:24.910 you definitely want to have enough capital to 00:27:24.910 --> 00:27:28.910 support growth, because here it's not about Do 00:27:28.910 --> 00:27:32.730 you want to grow 5 -10 % a year and what kind 00:27:32.730 --> 00:27:35.750 of business do you want to build? Do you want 00:27:35.750 --> 00:27:39.329 to be in a space where you grow sadly? You know, 00:27:39.450 --> 00:27:41.990 you're kind of, of course, profitable, you don't 00:27:41.990 --> 00:27:44.170 take extended money, and perhaps that's fine. 00:27:44.410 --> 00:27:45.809 You know, a lot of businesses do that depending 00:27:45.809 --> 00:27:47.630 on what you do, or do you want to build, you 00:27:47.630 --> 00:27:52.730 want to grow, you know, 200x a year, and you 00:27:52.730 --> 00:27:55.390 hire a specific exit right within five years, 00:27:55.450 --> 00:27:57.269 and then you need a lot of growth, you need a 00:27:57.269 --> 00:27:59.869 lot of capital to grow. So that may change for 00:27:59.869 --> 00:28:02.849 us as well, just to mention, because I think 00:28:02.849 --> 00:28:07.339 being in this market, it's a huge... opportunity. 00:28:07.920 --> 00:28:11.380 We are in a space that is very new. And we are 00:28:11.380 --> 00:28:14.299 at a very interesting pivotal stage with with 00:28:14.299 --> 00:28:17.319 media capital. We're getting a lot of interest. 00:28:17.599 --> 00:28:19.039 And I think what we need to do right now, I mean, 00:28:19.160 --> 00:28:22.160 this clear product market fit, we just need to 00:28:22.160 --> 00:28:25.380 double down and grow fast. Right? That's the 00:28:25.380 --> 00:28:28.140 stage we're at. And then I think in terms of 00:28:28.140 --> 00:28:33.259 challenges as well, it's just I mean, consumer 00:28:33.259 --> 00:28:36.289 brands, I think because of all the different 00:28:36.289 --> 00:28:38.930 challenges we're seeing in the media space, and 00:28:38.930 --> 00:28:40.789 also the fact that a lot of these companies were 00:28:40.789 --> 00:28:43.970 challenged when it comes to fundraising. You 00:28:43.970 --> 00:28:45.789 probably see this too, but in the last five, 00:28:45.789 --> 00:28:49.730 10 years, we've got this wave of D2C companies, 00:28:49.990 --> 00:28:54.710 brands, that started a consumer company at a 00:28:54.710 --> 00:28:57.950 fractional cost compared to, let's say, the previous 00:28:57.950 --> 00:29:00.509 ones, the decade before, because there's a lot 00:29:00.509 --> 00:29:03.549 of technology and a lot of resources out there 00:29:03.549 --> 00:29:06.759 that allows you to start with a lot less funding. 00:29:07.079 --> 00:29:09.619 But then what happens, they're grown on digital 00:29:09.619 --> 00:29:14.599 channels, relying 100 % on Facebook and Google 00:29:14.599 --> 00:29:17.359 and Amazon. And then when we come into play and 00:29:17.359 --> 00:29:19.660 we're trying to make the case for brand advertising, 00:29:20.220 --> 00:29:22.940 which has always been the case for, I mean, a 00:29:22.940 --> 00:29:24.799 lot of the unicorns out there, that's essentially 00:29:24.799 --> 00:29:28.480 how they propel business, right, to TV and mass 00:29:28.480 --> 00:29:30.900 channels. They're like, oh, we don't need that. 00:29:31.359 --> 00:29:33.660 You know, it's always a tough conversation to 00:29:33.660 --> 00:29:35.809 have. because there's a lot of education that 00:29:35.809 --> 00:29:38.869 needs to be done, right? Why you need to run 00:29:38.869 --> 00:29:42.950 advertising in your media mix. So all of these 00:29:42.950 --> 00:29:45.650 different challenges, I think made it, we achieved 00:29:45.650 --> 00:29:47.910 a lot in the last three years. You know, we've 00:29:47.910 --> 00:29:51.869 done a lot of programs. We worked with 24 companies. 00:29:52.109 --> 00:29:54.690 We raised this initial close of 30 million. We 00:29:54.690 --> 00:29:58.009 already started deploying, but it's still, we're 00:29:58.009 --> 00:30:00.089 still having these conversations. So we're not 00:30:00.089 --> 00:30:03.279 even making the case for media capital. We have 00:30:03.279 --> 00:30:05.339 to make the case for brand advertising before 00:30:05.339 --> 00:30:10.039 we get into an investment conversation. But it's 00:30:10.039 --> 00:30:12.720 a very, it's a challenge, but also very interesting 00:30:12.720 --> 00:30:15.039 space to be. I think there's a lot of innovation 00:30:15.039 --> 00:30:16.680 that is going to happen not only in the media, 00:30:16.700 --> 00:30:20.400 but also with this model itself. And also if 00:30:20.400 --> 00:30:21.960 you think about it, it's probably a lot better 00:30:21.960 --> 00:30:24.289 tracking as well. Cause I'm thinking the type 00:30:24.289 --> 00:30:25.930 of data and the type of feedback you get from 00:30:25.930 --> 00:30:28.569 consumers on your phone. Nowadays, your television 00:30:28.569 --> 00:30:30.089 actually gives you the same type of feedback 00:30:30.089 --> 00:30:31.829 as well, right? Cause they're smart TVs. They 00:30:31.829 --> 00:30:34.250 connected all the time. The amounts of data that 00:30:34.250 --> 00:30:37.190 captures insane. It's absolutely ridiculous. 00:30:37.630 --> 00:30:42.430 Um, yeah. You know, if I'm, yeah, which is scary. 00:30:42.990 --> 00:30:44.789 I actually have a very old television, which 00:30:44.789 --> 00:30:46.329 doesn't do any of that. Doesn't connect to the 00:30:46.329 --> 00:30:48.250 internet apart from just going on Netflix. And 00:30:48.250 --> 00:30:51.470 that's kind of it. Uh, But yeah, if you buy something 00:30:51.470 --> 00:30:54.289 from Samsung, for example, they have so many 00:30:54.289 --> 00:30:56.329 points that pick up on you. They know exactly 00:30:56.329 --> 00:30:59.849 who you are. And then all the ads after you watch 00:30:59.849 --> 00:31:02.230 television for a bit, they all completely retargeted 00:31:02.230 --> 00:31:04.170 just for you. It's a fascinating world. We were 00:31:04.170 --> 00:31:07.569 discussing this. It is. And you're perfectly 00:31:07.569 --> 00:31:10.170 right. And this is actually one of the probably 00:31:10.170 --> 00:31:12.710 preconceptions that TV is just linear. Right. 00:31:12.849 --> 00:31:14.829 And then, yes, there are challenges with measuring. 00:31:14.990 --> 00:31:17.069 But even within a linear environment, you still 00:31:17.069 --> 00:31:20.009 have a lot of innovation and measurement platforms 00:31:20.009 --> 00:31:25.730 that allow you to track and attribute the back, 00:31:25.930 --> 00:31:28.150 the revenue and the success to that TV campaign. 00:31:28.549 --> 00:31:30.789 But then you've got a whole realm of connected 00:31:30.789 --> 00:31:34.750 TV, addressable TV, which is very much closer 00:31:34.750 --> 00:31:37.970 to how you would probably measure your programmatic 00:31:37.970 --> 00:31:40.269 advertising. But you mentioned, yeah, there's 00:31:40.269 --> 00:31:42.250 a lot of data points. I think this is the challenge, 00:31:42.349 --> 00:31:45.099 right, for a lot of the CMOs. How do you What 00:31:45.099 --> 00:31:48.099 data do you wanna measure, or rather what data 00:31:48.099 --> 00:31:50.660 points do you want to track? What do you wanna 00:31:50.660 --> 00:31:53.460 measure and how are you gonna analyze the data 00:31:53.460 --> 00:31:56.640 to give you actual meaningful results and insights? 00:31:57.039 --> 00:31:59.500 Because the more data you collect, I think you'll 00:31:59.500 --> 00:32:02.220 find yourself in that conundrum of like, what 00:32:02.220 --> 00:32:04.940 kind of data point should I listen to? And it's 00:32:04.940 --> 00:32:07.099 tough when you've got TV and digital channels 00:32:07.099 --> 00:32:10.200 on the side, and then you bring your out -of 00:32:10.200 --> 00:32:13.130 -home partner. And then you're like, OK, so how 00:32:13.130 --> 00:32:16.170 am I going to build this measurement strategy 00:32:16.170 --> 00:32:19.309 across channels to have an only channel approach? 00:32:20.009 --> 00:32:24.230 So yeah, it's a continuous battle, I think. Ideally 00:32:24.230 --> 00:32:27.150 with unlimited budgets, right? That's the speed 00:32:27.150 --> 00:32:29.150 forward you want to be. I have unlimited budgets. 00:32:29.150 --> 00:32:31.970 I can spend in anything. This is what we're trying 00:32:31.970 --> 00:32:35.009 to also achieve here, an address. Because a lot 00:32:35.009 --> 00:32:37.549 of the companies that come to us is because they 00:32:37.549 --> 00:32:40.390 want to optimize their marketing spending. So 00:32:40.390 --> 00:32:42.410 in the end, that's what we do, right? By investing 00:32:42.410 --> 00:32:45.849 advertising space and predominantly TV, we move 00:32:45.849 --> 00:32:48.950 the marketing costs from their PNL into their 00:32:48.950 --> 00:32:52.529 balance sheet. So that allows them to extend 00:32:52.529 --> 00:32:55.309 the runway. In some cases, they might actually 00:32:55.309 --> 00:32:57.890 reallocate budgets to other operational costs 00:32:57.890 --> 00:33:02.230 or product growth or other specific key areas 00:33:02.230 --> 00:33:05.490 of the business. But also it's not just about 00:33:05.490 --> 00:33:07.269 the financial, it's also about the expertise, 00:33:07.430 --> 00:33:11.160 right? We tend to be quite a hands -on investor 00:33:11.160 --> 00:33:14.299 when it comes to deploying media. We're not hands 00:33:14.299 --> 00:33:17.019 -on in terms of, we're a minority investor, so 00:33:17.019 --> 00:33:19.660 we don't really take board seats. Probably, in 00:33:19.660 --> 00:33:21.640 some cases, we might look at observer seats. 00:33:22.299 --> 00:33:24.299 But when you come to us and if you're getting 00:33:24.299 --> 00:33:27.960 an investment from Media4Growth, I mean, that's 00:33:27.960 --> 00:33:32.019 just not enough for you to ensure a successful 00:33:32.019 --> 00:33:34.200 campaign, right? Then you've got to look into, 00:33:34.359 --> 00:33:36.650 okay, who's going to do the media plan? Who's 00:33:36.650 --> 00:33:38.430 going to be doing your creatives? How are you 00:33:38.430 --> 00:33:40.730 going to measure, right, as per your point? And 00:33:40.730 --> 00:33:42.769 then on top of that, you're probably fundraising 00:33:42.769 --> 00:33:45.970 as well. So all these different things, rather 00:33:45.970 --> 00:33:48.890 than letting the founder do it on their own, 00:33:49.190 --> 00:33:52.549 we have the specialized growth springs that we 00:33:52.549 --> 00:33:56.170 run multiple times a year. We do the investments, 00:33:56.190 --> 00:33:58.869 and then they get exposed to a whole set of partners. 00:33:58.910 --> 00:34:01.029 So we have, for example, a dedicated media planner 00:34:01.029 --> 00:34:03.839 in -house. We're just trying to address, you 00:34:03.839 --> 00:34:05.420 know, some of these challenges. How do you create 00:34:05.420 --> 00:34:07.500 a media plan? How do you measure what you want 00:34:07.500 --> 00:34:10.420 to look out for? What are your objectives? Where 00:34:10.420 --> 00:34:12.099 you should be, where you should be spending your 00:34:12.099 --> 00:34:14.519 money, right? And how much. So yeah, I think 00:34:14.519 --> 00:34:20.059 it's, uh, it's not enough to just think about 00:34:20.059 --> 00:34:23.159 just budgets and money, but it's how do you actually 00:34:23.159 --> 00:34:25.340 want to do it in a very optimal way? And what 00:34:25.340 --> 00:34:28.860 are the areas of this whole campaign do you need 00:34:28.860 --> 00:34:31.440 to get covered, right? In order to sustain that. 00:34:32.159 --> 00:34:35.840 Momentum strategies as important as ever and 00:34:35.840 --> 00:34:37.760 then if people want to reach out to you and find 00:34:37.760 --> 00:34:40.559 out more about the amazing things you do, how 00:34:40.559 --> 00:34:42.340 what's the best way of doing that? So I'm on 00:34:42.340 --> 00:34:45.210 LinkedIn. We publish a lot of research, a lot 00:34:45.210 --> 00:34:47.289 of case studies, a lot of investments that we 00:34:47.289 --> 00:34:50.269 do, so LinkedIn is probably best. But also, if 00:34:50.269 --> 00:34:52.750 any of them are interested in either knowing 00:34:52.750 --> 00:34:55.710 more about our investment thesis or just the 00:34:55.710 --> 00:34:58.829 model itself, they can reach me on my email address 00:34:58.829 --> 00:35:01.829 as well. So it's diana at mediaforgrowth .co. 00:35:02.989 --> 00:35:05.849 If not, then yeah, LinkedIn is always a great 00:35:05.849 --> 00:35:08.269 place. You can just drop me a message. Dan, it's 00:35:08.269 --> 00:35:09.869 been an absolute pleasure having you on the podcast. 00:35:10.190 --> 00:35:11.590 Thank you so much for your time. Thank you so 00:35:11.590 --> 00:35:13.409 much. Thanks, Ricardo. It's been a pleasure as 00:35:13.409 --> 00:35:16.250 well. The podcast is also sponsored by Notion 00:35:16.250 --> 00:35:19.170 .so. Notion is offering six months for free for 00:35:19.170 --> 00:35:21.650 new users. Make sure you check out our website, 00:35:21.849 --> 00:35:24.349 the startupevents .co .uk to read in the software. 00:35:24.730 --> 00:35:27.610 This podcast is also sponsored by startupnetworks 00:35:27.610 --> 00:35:31.210 .co .uk. Startup Networks, it's an online forum 00:35:31.210 --> 00:35:33.210 where you can find all the resources you need 00:35:33.210 --> 00:35:35.760 to run your startup. From grants to investors 00:35:35.760 --> 00:35:37.920 to tips and tricks on how to be successful in 00:35:37.920 --> 00:35:40.659 your startup. This podcast is also sponsored 00:35:40.659 --> 00:35:44.239 by ODEV Tech. ODEV Tech is your premier software 00:35:44.239 --> 00:35:46.139 development partner. Make sure you check them 00:35:46.139 --> 00:35:48.900 out at odev .tech.