WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.859 Welcome to the Innovation Conversation, a podcast 00:00:02.859 --> 00:00:05.419 about innovators, both in business and real life. 00:00:05.879 --> 00:00:08.380 Hosted by myself, Ricardo Rescual and Harry McCona. 00:00:08.480 --> 00:00:11.699 This podcast is also sponsored by ODEV Tech. 00:00:12.439 --> 00:00:14.640 ODEV Tech is your premier software development 00:00:14.640 --> 00:00:18.019 partner. Make sure you check them out at odev 00:00:18.019 --> 00:00:22.399 .tech. The podcast is also sponsored by Notion 00:00:22.399 --> 00:00:25.359 .so. Notion is offering six months for free for 00:00:25.359 --> 00:00:27.839 new users. Make sure you check out our website, 00:00:28.039 --> 00:00:30.579 thestoreofevents .co .uk to read in the software. 00:00:33.719 --> 00:00:36.060 Hi, and welcome to another episode of the Innovation 00:00:36.060 --> 00:00:38.420 Conversation. Today we are joined by Ross McCarthy. 00:00:38.780 --> 00:00:41.159 Ross, welcome to the podcast. Thanks for having 00:00:41.159 --> 00:00:44.079 me, Ricardo. Look at how it's set. Ross, would 00:00:44.079 --> 00:00:45.820 you like to introduce yourself to the audience, 00:00:46.000 --> 00:00:49.719 please? Yeah, absolutely. So I'm Ross, the founder 00:00:49.719 --> 00:00:52.750 of Frugal. I've been in insurance quite well 00:00:52.750 --> 00:00:55.710 now and just started my own venture. So here 00:00:55.710 --> 00:00:59.109 we are. All right. What prompted you to launch 00:00:59.109 --> 00:01:06.349 Frugal? Customers complaining. No, I jest. There's 00:01:06.349 --> 00:01:08.109 a bit of truth in that. Obviously, I've been 00:01:08.109 --> 00:01:11.469 in insurance for six years and have had a lot 00:01:11.469 --> 00:01:15.900 of customers who are Unhappy shall we say with 00:01:15.900 --> 00:01:18.859 with current offerings and about two years ago. 00:01:18.859 --> 00:01:21.500 I really started to deep dive into them pain 00:01:21.500 --> 00:01:25.799 points interview them survey them ask them why 00:01:25.799 --> 00:01:29.159 they're coming back to me each year and Find 00:01:29.159 --> 00:01:31.500 out really dig into the pain points and see what 00:01:31.500 --> 00:01:35.000 was what so yeah, that was really what? Drove 00:01:35.000 --> 00:01:38.659 me into this new venture nice, and I mean you've 00:01:38.659 --> 00:01:41.299 actually done I guess your product markets feet 00:01:41.299 --> 00:01:43.280 way before you actually launched something which 00:01:43.280 --> 00:01:46.560 is unique, I would say, for most startups. They'd 00:01:46.560 --> 00:01:47.760 normally do the other way around, which is, oh, 00:01:47.760 --> 00:01:49.180 let's build something and see if it actually 00:01:49.180 --> 00:01:51.939 fits the market. So you've done all the right 00:01:51.939 --> 00:01:54.459 steps. I mean, what's the feedback you're getting 00:01:54.459 --> 00:01:56.879 from customers or from, you know, from the market 00:01:56.879 --> 00:02:00.840 so far? Yeah, I mean, it's been a bit of a mixed 00:02:00.840 --> 00:02:03.680 bag. A lot of the customers are refreshed to 00:02:03.680 --> 00:02:05.939 see something new come to the market because 00:02:05.939 --> 00:02:08.639 for so long, I mean, obviously, I don't know 00:02:08.639 --> 00:02:10.780 your own experiences in insurance. I'm sure we'll 00:02:10.780 --> 00:02:14.139 get into that, but A lot of customers, it's the 00:02:14.139 --> 00:02:16.539 biggest grudge purchase of the year. It's something 00:02:16.539 --> 00:02:18.979 that they've got to have more often than not 00:02:18.979 --> 00:02:22.259 legally. And it's something that they just don't 00:02:22.259 --> 00:02:24.240 want to think about even when they have to think 00:02:24.240 --> 00:02:27.860 about it. So it's one of them annoying purchases 00:02:27.860 --> 00:02:30.800 that we're trying to put a spin on that makes 00:02:30.800 --> 00:02:33.000 it a bit more of a pleasant process for customers, 00:02:33.000 --> 00:02:35.539 but also something that they can rely on and 00:02:35.539 --> 00:02:38.080 not have to feel like the backs up against the 00:02:38.080 --> 00:02:41.550 wall each year. Surely driven by price. So that's 00:02:41.550 --> 00:02:44.889 that's my mission And how is it different than 00:02:44.889 --> 00:02:47.610 a traditional? I guess insurance provider. Yeah, 00:02:47.669 --> 00:02:50.250 so the traditional insurance providers. There's 00:02:50.250 --> 00:02:52.409 nothing wrong with them There's a place for it 00:02:52.409 --> 00:02:55.389 and has been obviously they've got Especially 00:02:55.389 --> 00:02:57.750 what I call the composite insurers. They've got 00:02:57.750 --> 00:03:00.610 massive market share where we stand out and where 00:03:00.610 --> 00:03:03.889 we are different We truly put the customer first. 00:03:03.889 --> 00:03:06.509 So we provide the customer with the tools to 00:03:06.509 --> 00:03:09.370 say look Your insurance is going to cost this, 00:03:09.590 --> 00:03:12.669 but we give you this to do this. So we're giving 00:03:12.669 --> 00:03:15.469 the customer the tools to make massive savings 00:03:15.469 --> 00:03:18.150 on their insurance costs at the end of the year 00:03:18.150 --> 00:03:21.430 and every year. So it's not just a backhanded 00:03:21.430 --> 00:03:24.729 discount or the customer has to ring up to say, 00:03:24.990 --> 00:03:27.030 look, my insurance has gone up again. What can 00:03:27.030 --> 00:03:29.930 we do about it? That's stressful for the customer. 00:03:30.069 --> 00:03:32.590 It's not paying free. It's not the right approach. 00:03:32.770 --> 00:03:35.189 Well, insurance should be taken. Loyalty should 00:03:35.189 --> 00:03:38.039 be rewarded. And we're big on that. So we want 00:03:38.039 --> 00:03:40.719 to make sure that the customer is our customer 00:03:40.719 --> 00:03:43.099 and is going to stay our customer because we're 00:03:43.099 --> 00:03:46.419 doing the right things for them. So how we do 00:03:46.419 --> 00:03:49.800 it different, to answer your question, is we're 00:03:49.800 --> 00:03:53.539 dicking into the world of cashback. So we make 00:03:53.539 --> 00:03:56.939 sure that the customer has all the tools to save 00:03:56.939 --> 00:03:59.520 a substantial amount of money at the end of the 00:03:59.520 --> 00:04:02.599 year. And we think the best way to do that is 00:04:02.599 --> 00:04:04.979 by allowing customers to leverage their everyday 00:04:04.979 --> 00:04:08.800 bank account spend. So we tap into open banking, 00:04:09.180 --> 00:04:13.139 enable customers to earn a bit of extra money 00:04:13.139 --> 00:04:15.680 on their everyday purchases, whether that's in 00:04:15.680 --> 00:04:17.860 Starbucks, buying a coffee or whether it's a 00:04:17.860 --> 00:04:20.199 massive purchase like a holiday. It doesn't really 00:04:20.199 --> 00:04:23.259 matter. It's all about the incrementality of 00:04:23.259 --> 00:04:25.819 doing the daily stuff that everyone does, but 00:04:25.819 --> 00:04:29.120 getting rewarded by one of your grudge purchases 00:04:29.120 --> 00:04:32.259 to do that, i .e. insurance. So that's really 00:04:32.259 --> 00:04:35.660 our focus and our goal. That's pretty good. I 00:04:35.660 --> 00:04:38.439 think it puts a different spin on normal insurance 00:04:38.439 --> 00:04:42.319 companies, doesn't it? Yeah, I mean, the best 00:04:42.319 --> 00:04:44.339 way to describe it, we're not trying to change 00:04:44.339 --> 00:04:46.879 the wheel. We're just changing the tires. That 00:04:46.879 --> 00:04:49.040 is literally it. We're not trying to reinvent 00:04:49.040 --> 00:04:52.220 anything. It's just something different that 00:04:52.220 --> 00:04:55.019 customers hopefully buy into and love. That's 00:04:55.019 --> 00:04:58.079 all we can ask. What has been the biggest struggle 00:04:58.079 --> 00:05:00.839 so far in your company? The biggest struggle? 00:05:01.220 --> 00:05:03.220 Trying to speak to as many people as possible. 00:05:03.620 --> 00:05:06.319 There's only obviously a very very small team 00:05:06.319 --> 00:05:08.600 and there's only so many hours in the day that 00:05:08.600 --> 00:05:11.519 I could speak to people. I wish I could do that 00:05:11.519 --> 00:05:13.620 as my sole responsibility in the business but 00:05:13.620 --> 00:05:16.360 unfortunately there's a few things that I need, 00:05:16.459 --> 00:05:18.300 a few other plates that I need to spin at the 00:05:18.300 --> 00:05:20.199 moment. I completely get that. It's like sometimes 00:05:20.199 --> 00:05:22.220 you actually need your, even though you're just 00:05:22.220 --> 00:05:24.160 starting out, you kind of need an assistant from 00:05:24.160 --> 00:05:27.360 the get -go. does get, you know, complicated, 00:05:27.439 --> 00:05:28.699 especially when you don't have unlimited budget 00:05:28.699 --> 00:05:30.240 because otherwise you can just, you know, get 00:05:30.240 --> 00:05:32.560 multiple people doing it. But yeah, I completely 00:05:32.560 --> 00:05:35.839 get that. And, you know, what's the next step? 00:05:36.000 --> 00:05:39.060 I mean, you kind of told me off, I guess off 00:05:39.060 --> 00:05:41.360 the timer, that you're looking for investors 00:05:41.360 --> 00:05:43.660 right now. So you're looking for a pre -seed 00:05:43.660 --> 00:05:48.079 or... Yeah, we like to call it a mini pre -seed. 00:05:48.639 --> 00:05:53.069 So we're not obviously... a position I would 00:05:53.069 --> 00:05:56.370 say is yet to really go into to BCs or anything 00:05:56.370 --> 00:05:58.930 like that for obvious reasons with pre -market 00:05:58.930 --> 00:06:02.029 and pre -revenue. So really at this moment in 00:06:02.029 --> 00:06:05.149 time, we want to speak with angel investors that 00:06:05.149 --> 00:06:08.170 have either an avid interest in insurance and 00:06:08.170 --> 00:06:11.569 changing the game a little bit, or just angel 00:06:11.569 --> 00:06:14.610 investors that like what we're doing and obviously 00:06:14.610 --> 00:06:18.810 buy into it. So when I say mini pre -seed, we've 00:06:18.810 --> 00:06:21.519 got an amount of money that we'd like to raise, 00:06:21.699 --> 00:06:23.480 obviously for functionality of the business and 00:06:23.480 --> 00:06:27.699 stuff like that. We're not wanting to go wild 00:06:27.699 --> 00:06:30.079 on any mad marketing campaigns. We want to take 00:06:30.079 --> 00:06:33.220 it really, really slowly, gain customer trust, 00:06:33.300 --> 00:06:35.120 and then build from there. So there will be a 00:06:35.120 --> 00:06:37.439 place for further investment and follow on, but 00:06:37.439 --> 00:06:40.300 at the moment it's specifically angels that we 00:06:40.300 --> 00:06:43.360 want to speak with. And your market age, just 00:06:43.360 --> 00:06:47.790 the UK? Yes, just the UK. I know. for now that's 00:06:47.790 --> 00:06:49.990 the key element there just for now yeah interesting 00:06:49.990 --> 00:06:52.310 and you know when you're coming up with this 00:06:52.310 --> 00:06:55.269 idea with how should i put this not so much of 00:06:55.269 --> 00:06:57.430 what's the biggest struggle but what's the thing 00:06:57.430 --> 00:06:59.990 you kind of want to change looking you know looking 00:06:59.990 --> 00:07:01.649 back when you first started what's the one thing 00:07:01.649 --> 00:07:03.750 you kind of realized by now actually we should 00:07:03.750 --> 00:07:06.470 have done this differently oh very good question 00:07:06.470 --> 00:07:11.009 speak to more and more people obviously i think 00:07:11.009 --> 00:07:13.779 i think i did the right thing with That was the 00:07:13.779 --> 00:07:15.660 first thing that I did before I even registered 00:07:15.660 --> 00:07:18.579 a domain name or anything like that before Frugal 00:07:18.579 --> 00:07:22.240 was even a thought and a prayer. It was speak 00:07:22.240 --> 00:07:24.639 to customers. And I had the beauty of doing that 00:07:24.639 --> 00:07:27.379 because of the job that I was doing anyway. So 00:07:27.379 --> 00:07:29.519 I was speaking with customers. It wasn't like 00:07:29.519 --> 00:07:31.959 I was coming out of the blue at customers standing 00:07:31.959 --> 00:07:34.319 in the street saying, what's going on with your 00:07:34.319 --> 00:07:37.639 insurance? I was already deep diving into it 00:07:37.639 --> 00:07:39.939 with customers because I was helping them in 00:07:39.939 --> 00:07:44.139 my other position. Um, but I wish if obviously 00:07:44.139 --> 00:07:47.060 I had the time again, I would have just gone 00:07:47.060 --> 00:07:50.060 a bit harder on that. And maybe even put a bit 00:07:50.060 --> 00:07:53.860 of money behind surveys, like professional surveys, 00:07:53.879 --> 00:07:56.199 not just me speaking to the customers that I 00:07:56.199 --> 00:07:58.879 could. I mean, we got a good, a good scope of 00:07:58.879 --> 00:08:01.800 it. We had hundreds of customers that we surveyed 00:08:01.800 --> 00:08:05.300 and ultimately joined the waiting list. But I 00:08:05.300 --> 00:08:07.040 wish I probably would have put some money behind 00:08:07.040 --> 00:08:09.399 it, maybe like a survey monkey campaign or something 00:08:09.399 --> 00:08:13.009 like that to, to really. dig a bit deeper, but 00:08:13.009 --> 00:08:15.610 hindsight's a wonderful thing. True. Is this 00:08:15.610 --> 00:08:18.670 your first startup? Yeah, my first startup. Okay, 00:08:18.949 --> 00:08:22.089 so what did your friends and family told you 00:08:22.089 --> 00:08:24.089 when you told them that you're going to launch 00:08:24.089 --> 00:08:27.230 a startup? They said you're going crazy or about 00:08:27.230 --> 00:08:31.129 time? There's probably a mix of both. I mean, 00:08:31.189 --> 00:08:34.809 I've always been doing different sort of things 00:08:34.809 --> 00:08:39.110 on the side, never a full startup that's proper 00:08:39.110 --> 00:08:42.250 anyway, shall we say. But I've, yeah, my family 00:08:42.250 --> 00:08:44.730 were, weren't so surprised, probably think, oh, 00:08:44.889 --> 00:08:47.110 raise Ross with another venture again or another, 00:08:47.110 --> 00:08:50.309 another dream to chase. But this one, they actually 00:08:50.309 --> 00:08:53.629 was like, no, this is, this is clever. This is 00:08:53.629 --> 00:08:56.870 smart. They like the simplicity of it. And again, 00:08:57.070 --> 00:09:00.149 family, family and friends is probably an unfair 00:09:00.149 --> 00:09:02.490 judgment of your business because they have obviously 00:09:02.490 --> 00:09:05.370 got, they've got bias towards it. But with this. 00:09:05.710 --> 00:09:08.490 They were like, no, I could see myself using 00:09:08.490 --> 00:09:10.990 this straight away. So it was like a nice refreshing 00:09:10.990 --> 00:09:14.250 thing. And I wanted it to be as holistic as possible 00:09:14.250 --> 00:09:17.470 and just take me out of it. What do you think 00:09:17.470 --> 00:09:20.490 of the proposition as a whole? And yeah, they 00:09:20.490 --> 00:09:22.970 like it. And how are you finding the fundraising 00:09:22.970 --> 00:09:26.149 process? Is it very complicated or very straightforward? 00:09:27.070 --> 00:09:30.090 I think the hardest part about the fundraising 00:09:30.090 --> 00:09:35.700 is actually putting I aim to do it. It's, it's 00:09:35.700 --> 00:09:38.320 a full -time job in itself. I mean, I could, 00:09:38.500 --> 00:09:41.860 I could easily spend hours on LinkedIn and go 00:09:41.860 --> 00:09:45.039 into events and things like that. But at this 00:09:45.039 --> 00:09:48.259 moment in time, I had to make a judgment call 00:09:48.259 --> 00:09:51.019 to say, what's more important? My customers are 00:09:51.019 --> 00:09:55.159 investors. So I think my, my time is best served 00:09:55.159 --> 00:09:58.759 with the customers because At the end of the 00:09:58.759 --> 00:10:00.740 day, I could speak to a hundred investors. Some 00:10:00.740 --> 00:10:02.360 of them might like it, but it's always going 00:10:02.360 --> 00:10:04.960 to be that time that it takes to get the money 00:10:04.960 --> 00:10:09.159 in. And then I'd still be in the stalls with 00:10:09.159 --> 00:10:11.340 customers because I might have money in the bank, 00:10:11.360 --> 00:10:13.519 but I won't have customers that know what I'm 00:10:13.519 --> 00:10:15.860 doing or what we're doing and where we're going. 00:10:16.500 --> 00:10:19.019 So yeah, I'm happy with the position that we've 00:10:19.019 --> 00:10:21.240 took and it started to organically trickle in 00:10:21.240 --> 00:10:24.480 with investors just by being visible on LinkedIn 00:10:24.480 --> 00:10:28.259 and stuff like that. So I am actively pursuing 00:10:28.259 --> 00:10:31.000 them, but at the same time, I'm not putting days 00:10:31.000 --> 00:10:33.419 out of my week into doing it. It's just been 00:10:33.419 --> 00:10:36.320 more of like a laid back approach now, whether 00:10:36.320 --> 00:10:38.620 that's right or wrong, time will tell. Time will 00:10:38.620 --> 00:10:41.820 tell. I'm always curious on the entrepreneur 00:10:41.820 --> 00:10:44.179 journey, like what do you actually do when you're 00:10:44.179 --> 00:10:46.840 having a bad day? Because I'm sure you have plenty 00:10:46.840 --> 00:10:48.179 of those, right? Especially when you're building 00:10:48.179 --> 00:10:50.759 something from scratch. What do you do? How do 00:10:50.759 --> 00:10:53.720 you recharge? How do you get back into shape 00:10:53.720 --> 00:10:57.159 type of thing? Yeah, I mean, I'm I'm very lucky 00:10:57.159 --> 00:10:59.519 in that regard that I've got, obviously I've 00:10:59.519 --> 00:11:01.860 got two co -founders. I've got obviously Sina 00:11:01.860 --> 00:11:04.179 of who you already know and you're familiar with. 00:11:04.659 --> 00:11:07.399 And I've got another co -founder called Asaf 00:11:07.399 --> 00:11:12.100 who's based in Washington DC. And Asaf especially, 00:11:12.460 --> 00:11:15.539 he's been in my seat, been there, done that. 00:11:15.879 --> 00:11:19.580 He's obviously a CEO of a business already. And 00:11:19.580 --> 00:11:22.419 he very much keeps me in check. We are chalk 00:11:22.419 --> 00:11:27.330 and cheese as in personality wise, I'm I'm the 00:11:27.330 --> 00:11:31.269 dreamer. He's the realist. And when I am having 00:11:31.269 --> 00:11:34.110 a bad day, obviously he's there to pick me up. 00:11:34.230 --> 00:11:36.509 Cena as well, we sort of like bounce off each 00:11:36.509 --> 00:11:39.950 other really. But it's a lonely place. You're 00:11:39.950 --> 00:11:42.710 right. It's something where you've got to shake 00:11:42.710 --> 00:11:44.730 it off quickly because there's nobody really 00:11:44.730 --> 00:11:47.029 coming over the hill to save your day. It's either 00:11:47.029 --> 00:11:50.669 you or nobody. So yeah, shake it off quickly 00:11:50.669 --> 00:11:54.529 is my answer to that question. Interesting. On 00:11:54.529 --> 00:11:56.980 your journey, what type of books inspired you 00:11:56.980 --> 00:11:59.299 to kind of launch the business, if any. Yeah. 00:12:00.100 --> 00:12:02.840 I'm not a massive reader. I'm more audio books 00:12:02.840 --> 00:12:10.259 and that's purely because of obviously concentration. 00:12:10.580 --> 00:12:13.399 I've never, I've never been geared the way of 00:12:13.399 --> 00:12:16.500 that in a classroom and the conventional there's 00:12:16.500 --> 00:12:18.759 a book digest all of that. And then write an 00:12:18.759 --> 00:12:22.159 essay. I'm more on the job sort of thing, but 00:12:22.159 --> 00:12:26.490 the books that I love. You've got obviously The 00:12:26.490 --> 00:12:30.370 Brew Dog, Butch's Man in Babylon, all of them. 00:12:30.590 --> 00:12:33.429 80 -20 Principle, I've come to love more and 00:12:33.429 --> 00:12:36.350 more as I've actually understood what it means. 00:12:37.889 --> 00:12:40.690 But yeah, probably out of the three, 80 -20 Principle 00:12:40.690 --> 00:12:44.490 is my go -to, I would say. Interesting. And Brew 00:12:44.490 --> 00:12:48.139 Dog as well, as a book. Yeah, shoe dog, shoe 00:12:48.139 --> 00:12:50.820 dog. Sorry, I thought you meant brew dog. I'm 00:12:50.820 --> 00:12:52.940 like, oh, the guy actually wrote a book. No, 00:12:52.940 --> 00:12:55.960 no, no. I don't think I'd buy it if you did, 00:12:55.980 --> 00:13:01.100 to be fair. Yeah, good beer, but a highly controversial 00:13:01.100 --> 00:13:06.899 fellow. Yeah. Yeah. And how are you finding this 00:13:06.899 --> 00:13:09.899 whole journey? What would you change if you could 00:13:09.899 --> 00:13:12.039 change something in the whole journey? because 00:13:12.039 --> 00:13:13.379 there's always something like some people say 00:13:13.379 --> 00:13:15.879 oh it's hard to get funding or I don't like the 00:13:15.879 --> 00:13:18.440 current legislation or this or that so what would 00:13:18.440 --> 00:13:20.720 change if you could think I think there's a lot 00:13:20.720 --> 00:13:23.620 to be said about funded I mean you probably could 00:13:23.620 --> 00:13:25.960 tell by the common accent I'm not from London 00:13:25.960 --> 00:13:29.360 I'm from Manchester and there is there is a stigma 00:13:29.360 --> 00:13:33.960 around funding in the UK especially that it all 00:13:33.960 --> 00:13:35.870 has to come from London And there's probably, 00:13:35.870 --> 00:13:37.929 there's probably a lot to be said for that because 00:13:37.929 --> 00:13:40.909 a lot of the majority of the funding for my type 00:13:40.909 --> 00:13:44.649 of business does come from London. It's not a 00:13:44.649 --> 00:13:48.850 big arena in Manchester for InsureTech especially. 00:13:49.169 --> 00:13:51.450 FinTech's starting to rise and I would probably 00:13:51.450 --> 00:13:54.289 consider our business hybrid between a FinTech 00:13:54.289 --> 00:13:58.629 and an InsureTech. I'd probably say that it was 00:13:58.629 --> 00:14:02.389 more accessible where you can find it without 00:14:02.389 --> 00:14:06.190 having to hunt for hours of where these people 00:14:06.190 --> 00:14:10.450 live, breathe, work, that would make it a lot 00:14:10.450 --> 00:14:14.070 easier and bring that barrier down because unless 00:14:14.070 --> 00:14:17.129 you know where to look, who to speak to, and 00:14:17.129 --> 00:14:20.490 it's all built on connections, but if you're 00:14:20.490 --> 00:14:23.750 a founder that has no clue of the tools to use 00:14:23.750 --> 00:14:26.250 or where to go or potentially to give yourself 00:14:26.250 --> 00:14:28.850 a head start, it can be very daunting and you 00:14:28.850 --> 00:14:31.149 might even get your business off the ground without 00:14:31.149 --> 00:14:34.700 even having the tools to be able to do it. So 00:14:34.700 --> 00:14:38.279 yeah, that would be my only gripe really is where 00:14:38.279 --> 00:14:40.639 are these angel investors? Where are these VCs? 00:14:40.700 --> 00:14:42.740 Where do they hang out? What do they want to 00:14:42.740 --> 00:14:46.340 see? And yeah, to, to be more visible. I think 00:14:46.340 --> 00:14:49.259 there's, I think the one that I admire probably 00:14:49.259 --> 00:14:52.179 more than anyone is Harry Stebbins. I think he's 00:14:52.179 --> 00:14:57.580 a fantastic advocate for investors because he 00:14:57.580 --> 00:15:00.120 doesn't hide behind anything he's very very visible 00:15:00.120 --> 00:15:02.559 he doesn't obviously a podcast as well and it 00:15:02.559 --> 00:15:05.220 just gives people ammunition to say right okay 00:15:05.220 --> 00:15:07.639 this is what an investor is looking for let's 00:15:07.639 --> 00:15:11.000 do that or let's approach it in this angle because 00:15:11.000 --> 00:15:12.740 sometimes if you're just looking at a face on 00:15:12.740 --> 00:15:15.899 a screen you don't know what gets them out of 00:15:15.899 --> 00:15:17.879 bed in the morning what they like what they don't 00:15:17.879 --> 00:15:21.600 like is yeah it's very very old approach I think 00:15:21.600 --> 00:15:23.919 Harry is a testament to him with that he's very 00:15:23.919 --> 00:15:26.240 very good at it Did you ever, because you just 00:15:26.240 --> 00:15:28.159 said you come from Manchester, do you ever find 00:15:28.159 --> 00:15:32.139 that people are, I guess, doubtful of your ability 00:15:32.139 --> 00:15:33.940 to do things because you come from Manchester? 00:15:34.399 --> 00:15:35.779 We're quite on the contrary of the big Oasis 00:15:35.779 --> 00:15:37.600 fans. And I think no, no, I'm sure you can. No, 00:15:37.600 --> 00:15:39.659 you're absolutely right. You're absolutely right. 00:15:40.120 --> 00:15:43.860 It's I think I've had a few interesting conversations 00:15:43.860 --> 00:15:46.620 with with people. I mean, it's all in jest, but 00:15:46.620 --> 00:15:51.460 my accent is very, very strong. And the the the 00:15:51.460 --> 00:15:53.399 best way of describing it is sometimes to break 00:15:53.399 --> 00:15:55.940 the ice with that. They always say, have you 00:15:55.940 --> 00:15:58.460 ever seen the TV program Shameless? I grew up 00:15:58.460 --> 00:16:00.419 like 10, 15 minutes from there. And then it's 00:16:00.419 --> 00:16:02.279 a bit of like an icebreaker. And then that sort 00:16:02.279 --> 00:16:05.279 of stigma has gone because we're not the poshest 00:16:05.279 --> 00:16:07.600 of people. I mean, I can put an accident on to 00:16:07.600 --> 00:16:12.980 try to do. But yeah, it's probably preconceptions 00:16:12.980 --> 00:16:15.879 as soon as I speak that, oh yeah, he doesn't 00:16:15.879 --> 00:16:18.000 know what he's talking about sort of thing. But 00:16:18.000 --> 00:16:20.360 yeah, I like to think about the curve of that 00:16:20.360 --> 00:16:21.799 one. It's quite interesting because obviously 00:16:21.799 --> 00:16:24.610 you're doing a very traditional industry. but 00:16:24.610 --> 00:16:26.429 you're also very creative and doing something 00:16:26.429 --> 00:16:28.049 completely new to that traditional industry. 00:16:28.549 --> 00:16:30.649 But then to even think that they would still 00:16:30.649 --> 00:16:33.049 frown upon whatever you're doing just because 00:16:33.049 --> 00:16:38.629 of your accent is, it's, wow. It's crazy. We're 00:16:38.629 --> 00:16:41.549 competing with London though. I mean, I've especially 00:16:41.549 --> 00:16:43.950 in the early days of Frugal when to be honest 00:16:43.950 --> 00:16:46.529 with you, I didn't really know what it was when 00:16:46.529 --> 00:16:49.629 I was just ideating things and speaking to people. 00:16:50.230 --> 00:16:55.000 I had some quite high profile meetings. with 00:16:55.000 --> 00:16:59.000 people involved at Lloyd's, though in that obviously 00:16:59.000 --> 00:17:04.420 massive arena. Some of which were lovely, but 00:17:04.420 --> 00:17:07.160 others were very much 50 -odd -year -old man, 00:17:07.400 --> 00:17:11.819 grey suit, answer the call mid -meeting and just 00:17:11.819 --> 00:17:14.160 disregarded me on the call. I was like, ah, okay, 00:17:14.759 --> 00:17:17.339 is this the world in which we're operating in 00:17:17.339 --> 00:17:19.660 sort of thing? But you can't let it get to you 00:17:19.660 --> 00:17:21.609 because... At the end of the day, you've got 00:17:21.609 --> 00:17:23.210 to look at it from their point of view. You've 00:17:23.210 --> 00:17:25.910 got some young Turk on the scene now who's trying 00:17:25.910 --> 00:17:30.029 to rewrite the facts of life. And they've been 00:17:30.029 --> 00:17:33.049 there and seen that for probably longer than 00:17:33.049 --> 00:17:35.789 I've been alive. So this is give and take with 00:17:35.789 --> 00:17:37.829 it, but I always think that you take someone 00:17:37.829 --> 00:17:41.250 at face value and don't ever disregard them based 00:17:41.250 --> 00:17:44.410 on where they're from in the world or how they 00:17:44.410 --> 00:17:48.460 speak. So yeah, that would be my... I eat to 00:17:48.460 --> 00:17:50.519 them people if I ever came into contact with 00:17:50.519 --> 00:17:54.019 them again. But yeah, whether we will or we won't. 00:17:54.240 --> 00:17:56.180 Do you think there's a lot of room to grow within 00:17:56.180 --> 00:17:58.880 this industry and it's actually ripe for disruption? 00:17:59.160 --> 00:18:01.920 Because we were talking a while back about how 00:18:01.920 --> 00:18:04.180 complicated renewing your insurance, not redoing 00:18:04.180 --> 00:18:06.259 your insurances, but actually getting the best 00:18:06.259 --> 00:18:08.160 value for money for insurance policies. It's 00:18:08.160 --> 00:18:10.319 absolute nightmare. And I still can't believe 00:18:10.319 --> 00:18:12.220 to this day and age where you renew with the 00:18:12.220 --> 00:18:14.420 same company, but you might actually get a worse 00:18:14.420 --> 00:18:17.109 deal than a new customer. So I need to be on 00:18:17.109 --> 00:18:18.769 the market. I mean, that's just literally the 00:18:18.769 --> 00:18:20.829 whole system. So you think there's still like 00:18:20.829 --> 00:18:23.990 a lot of room to grow overall in the space? Absolutely. 00:18:24.569 --> 00:18:27.809 There's a reason why the comparison sites have 00:18:27.809 --> 00:18:30.509 grown as big as they have. And the reason for 00:18:30.509 --> 00:18:32.890 that is that customers aren't happy where they 00:18:32.890 --> 00:18:34.869 are. Otherwise there wouldn't be a place in the 00:18:34.869 --> 00:18:37.009 market for comparison sites if everyone stayed 00:18:37.009 --> 00:18:42.150 where they were. So this industry, they say that 00:18:42.150 --> 00:18:45.190 there has been But there hasn't been really any 00:18:45.190 --> 00:18:48.329 change in a long, long time. And it will come. 00:18:48.769 --> 00:18:54.210 And I think the pivotal point of a lot of all 00:18:54.210 --> 00:18:59.269 of this will be when AI really hits. And I think 00:18:59.269 --> 00:19:02.910 that is because a lot of the, again, I'll mention 00:19:02.910 --> 00:19:05.109 them as the composites. So the composite insurers 00:19:05.109 --> 00:19:07.470 are the ones we've got, the mass market share, 00:19:07.490 --> 00:19:11.109 the ones that everyone knows about the vivas 00:19:11.109 --> 00:19:14.269 of the world and such. They're making massive 00:19:14.269 --> 00:19:17.109 strides, but one thing you've got to realize 00:19:17.109 --> 00:19:20.150 is these companies are like cruise ships. So 00:19:20.150 --> 00:19:23.410 they're that big, it takes a long while for them 00:19:23.410 --> 00:19:26.450 to change direction or do something different. 00:19:27.250 --> 00:19:29.410 So there's always going to be a place for them 00:19:29.410 --> 00:19:32.470 because they're so big. They command that. They 00:19:32.470 --> 00:19:35.170 will be able to take market share while they're 00:19:35.170 --> 00:19:37.650 asleep. But the innovation will really, I think 00:19:37.650 --> 00:19:39.990 anyway, come from the challenger brands. Same 00:19:39.990 --> 00:19:41.970 as what we've seen in the banking industry, where 00:19:41.970 --> 00:19:45.589 you've always had your Stonewall bank, banking 00:19:45.589 --> 00:19:47.990 companies, and then the likes of Stalin and Monzo 00:19:47.990 --> 00:19:50.670 come around and really, really changed the game. 00:19:51.309 --> 00:19:54.630 With insurance, it has been that sort of pivotal 00:19:54.630 --> 00:19:58.029 shift, but there hasn't been a shift really like 00:19:58.029 --> 00:20:02.160 there has in banking. So it will come. And it 00:20:02.160 --> 00:20:04.200 needs to come because, like you say, it's an 00:20:04.200 --> 00:20:08.259 absolute nightmare for customers that if they 00:20:08.259 --> 00:20:11.839 choose and put their trust in one company and 00:20:11.839 --> 00:20:15.559 then at renewal, they're worse off to stay with 00:20:15.559 --> 00:20:17.880 that company than it would be to go elsewhere. 00:20:18.599 --> 00:20:20.599 For me, I think it's the only industry that I 00:20:20.599 --> 00:20:24.680 know of anyway, of where loyalty is just disregarded. 00:20:24.740 --> 00:20:27.829 It's just something where Alright, you're a customer 00:20:27.829 --> 00:20:30.190 of ours, now we'll do what we want sort of attitude. 00:20:30.430 --> 00:20:34.069 It's ridiculous. It's completely backward. For 00:20:34.069 --> 00:20:37.230 me, it always struck me as something quite, let's 00:20:37.230 --> 00:20:39.529 take car insurance for example, one of my pain 00:20:39.529 --> 00:20:42.549 points. I have several years no claim. I have 00:20:42.549 --> 00:20:45.589 my license for decades now. Never had a crash 00:20:45.589 --> 00:20:49.150 thankfully. At least not of my own fault, which 00:20:49.150 --> 00:20:50.890 is also quite important. So I think of myself 00:20:50.890 --> 00:20:54.339 as a very safe driver. Yet every time I go to 00:20:54.339 --> 00:20:57.500 try new insurance, they always ask me, what do 00:20:57.500 --> 00:21:00.019 you do for a living? And it's just really basic 00:21:00.019 --> 00:21:03.000 questions that can in a way, shape or form determine 00:21:03.000 --> 00:21:05.799 what my driving style is. Because I can be, I 00:21:05.799 --> 00:21:07.980 don't know, an office clerk and drive like an 00:21:07.980 --> 00:21:10.240 absolute moron on the road. And there's no way 00:21:10.240 --> 00:21:11.779 for them to track that, right? Unless they put 00:21:11.779 --> 00:21:14.000 a black box. But then even the black box actually 00:21:14.000 --> 00:21:16.599 doesn't work that well. And then they start, 00:21:17.019 --> 00:21:19.720 I guess, how should I put this? They start penalizing 00:21:19.720 --> 00:21:22.640 you for driving at 3 a .m. But 3 a .m. is probably 00:21:22.640 --> 00:21:24.119 quite safe because there's no one in the road. 00:21:25.599 --> 00:21:29.039 So, it's quite a lot of space there. Yeah. It's 00:21:29.039 --> 00:21:32.640 these pre... What's the word for it? It's this 00:21:32.640 --> 00:21:36.039 attitude towards that if you drive a certain 00:21:36.039 --> 00:21:39.519 car or if you're a certain age, you're fundamentally 00:21:39.519 --> 00:21:42.680 a bad driver or an unsafe driver. But you could 00:21:42.680 --> 00:21:45.539 flip that completely on its head and say... Well, 00:21:45.539 --> 00:21:47.339 potentially some of the worst drivers on the 00:21:47.339 --> 00:21:51.039 road are over 60, for example, and not the under 00:21:51.039 --> 00:21:54.880 20 age category that gets slaughtered on their 00:21:54.880 --> 00:21:57.859 costs. Whether it's just by being the age, they 00:21:57.859 --> 00:22:00.500 might be driving a one litre car that you probably 00:22:00.500 --> 00:22:02.140 couldn't push it off a cliff at a hundred mile 00:22:02.140 --> 00:22:05.900 an hour. But it's something where as soon as 00:22:05.900 --> 00:22:08.759 you mention insurance, there's a negative stigma 00:22:08.759 --> 00:22:11.740 attached to it. And you'd probably be hard pressed 00:22:11.740 --> 00:22:16.259 to find. people who love insurance and say oh 00:22:16.259 --> 00:22:18.819 it's great that that actually exists because 00:22:18.819 --> 00:22:23.160 there's so many negative stories and experiences 00:22:23.160 --> 00:22:26.680 attached to it that just shines through. There's 00:22:26.680 --> 00:22:29.539 nothing actually that's out there at the minute 00:22:29.539 --> 00:22:32.740 that a customer could probably say you know what 00:22:32.740 --> 00:22:35.420 this is brilliant this is fantastic and it does 00:22:35.420 --> 00:22:38.000 exactly what I need and I'm never ever going 00:22:38.000 --> 00:22:41.380 to switch from that insurer even if the price 00:22:41.380 --> 00:22:44.680 goes up a few pounds a year each year because 00:22:44.680 --> 00:22:49.460 they give me enough value add to say okay I'm 00:22:49.460 --> 00:22:51.700 happy with that I'm happy with that transfer 00:22:51.700 --> 00:22:56.460 of value to say you get this I get that there's 00:22:56.460 --> 00:22:58.660 nothing like that there in insurance it's very 00:22:58.660 --> 00:23:03.579 much purchase bought on legality and that's yeah 00:23:03.579 --> 00:23:05.299 exactly and then when you're doing them you never 00:23:05.299 --> 00:23:07.839 know if it's going to go good like or if you're 00:23:07.839 --> 00:23:09.240 going to have a good experience or bad experience 00:23:09.240 --> 00:23:12.049 right It's always, let's see how he covers that 00:23:12.049 --> 00:23:15.609 bit of the scenario. Yeah, these two trigger 00:23:15.609 --> 00:23:19.670 points for insurance, there's your renewal, and 00:23:19.670 --> 00:23:22.069 there's an event of a claim. So they're the two 00:23:22.069 --> 00:23:24.130 real points that you'll know if you're happy 00:23:24.130 --> 00:23:26.390 or not, because let's face it, for 11 months 00:23:26.390 --> 00:23:29.869 of the year, nobody wants to think about insurance, 00:23:29.990 --> 00:23:33.069 so they put it in a draw, forget about it, until 00:23:33.069 --> 00:23:36.400 they actually have to act. but there's no relationship 00:23:36.400 --> 00:23:38.839 built in that 11 months so it all comes down 00:23:38.839 --> 00:23:42.299 to price or claim experience and if you fall 00:23:42.299 --> 00:23:44.559 down on either one of them you've lost the customer 00:23:44.559 --> 00:23:48.079 anyway oh i mean you tell me ricardo can you 00:23:48.079 --> 00:23:51.940 think of any other industry that doesn't really 00:23:51.940 --> 00:23:54.359 speak to their customers throughout the year 00:23:54.359 --> 00:23:58.099 and then i meet you for one month of the year 00:23:58.349 --> 00:24:00.970 If they're not happy, then they just wave sayonara 00:24:00.970 --> 00:24:03.849 to you. It's crazy. It's absolutely crazy. I 00:24:03.849 --> 00:24:05.769 was going to say Netflix. I think I'm really 00:24:05.769 --> 00:24:07.670 pissed off at the fact that he creates surprises. 00:24:08.769 --> 00:24:12.410 Yeah, true. I think they could probably wangle 00:24:12.410 --> 00:24:15.230 the customer back though with putting a new show 00:24:15.230 --> 00:24:19.390 on or a film. Again, the value of exchange might 00:24:19.390 --> 00:24:24.250 be worth it there. For the future, how does he 00:24:24.250 --> 00:24:26.319 focus growth? What are the plans for the future? 00:24:26.779 --> 00:24:30.000 Yeah, so the plans, I mean, again, it's all going 00:24:30.000 --> 00:24:34.319 to come down to how fast we move with this. We've 00:24:34.319 --> 00:24:36.579 built the waiting list up to a nice number. I 00:24:36.579 --> 00:24:39.279 do want that to increase substantially because, 00:24:39.720 --> 00:24:41.640 again, with insurance, that we're not going to 00:24:41.640 --> 00:24:43.980 hit every single person on that waiting list 00:24:43.980 --> 00:24:46.180 that's going to need us there and then when we 00:24:46.180 --> 00:24:51.099 launch. We do need to bump them numbers up. But 00:24:51.099 --> 00:24:55.079 yeah, we feel that we are positioned in a way 00:24:55.079 --> 00:25:00.579 in which every customer who has a need for our 00:25:00.579 --> 00:25:03.779 starting product from insurance and has a smartphone 00:25:03.779 --> 00:25:08.859 and use banking app quite easily will have a 00:25:08.859 --> 00:25:14.339 place for Frugal. That is my belief. I think 00:25:14.339 --> 00:25:16.920 every single person that of them three instances 00:25:16.920 --> 00:25:20.759 that I've just explained will be able to effectively 00:25:20.759 --> 00:25:25.650 save money on their insurance costs. I want to 00:25:25.650 --> 00:25:28.630 tread very, very carefully on expectations to 00:25:28.630 --> 00:25:30.509 grow from stuff like that, because again, we 00:25:30.509 --> 00:25:36.009 are fully bootstrapped. I'm hoping that if we 00:25:36.009 --> 00:25:38.089 do what we say we're going to do, which I firmly 00:25:38.089 --> 00:25:43.009 believe we will, the investment will come. the 00:25:43.009 --> 00:25:45.150 outreach to customers will just be more and more 00:25:45.150 --> 00:25:48.069 vast and we'll be able to really, really explode. 00:25:48.210 --> 00:25:50.970 That's the plan. And I think it'll speak for 00:25:50.970 --> 00:25:54.450 itself. I think the product is strong. Our USP 00:25:54.450 --> 00:25:56.549 really, really does the talking. We don't have 00:25:56.549 --> 00:25:59.450 to shout and scream or be the snake oil salesman 00:25:59.450 --> 00:26:03.609 to say, this is great. It really does everything 00:26:03.609 --> 00:26:06.710 the customer needs by the customer. It's not 00:26:06.710 --> 00:26:08.349 really yours. We're just providing the tools 00:26:08.349 --> 00:26:11.369 to be able to do it. It's the customer that will 00:26:11.369 --> 00:26:15.029 really see their own savings rise based on their 00:26:15.029 --> 00:26:19.009 everyday spend and how they act with Frugal. 00:26:19.589 --> 00:26:21.849 Because again, there's going to be customers 00:26:21.849 --> 00:26:25.529 that save £100, there'll be customers that could 00:26:25.529 --> 00:26:29.890 save £500 plus. The beauty of Frugal is that 00:26:29.890 --> 00:26:32.569 it's personal to that customer. There's not a 00:26:32.569 --> 00:26:35.359 one size fits all approach. and they never will 00:26:35.359 --> 00:26:37.960 be it's all based on that customer spend and 00:26:37.960 --> 00:26:40.140 obviously customers spend a different amount 00:26:40.140 --> 00:26:43.900 that's fine as long as it matters to you and 00:26:43.900 --> 00:26:47.779 that's all that we can that's all we can do it's 00:26:47.779 --> 00:26:50.079 always good i mean saving on insurance is something 00:26:50.079 --> 00:26:54.480 that is so in demand right you talk with anyone 00:26:54.480 --> 00:26:56.200 they said do you like say would you like to save 00:26:56.200 --> 00:26:58.940 your own insurance cost yes 100 like this is 00:26:58.940 --> 00:27:01.160 a no -brainer like everyone who has a need for 00:27:01.160 --> 00:27:03.609 it so i think I think the future's got to be 00:27:03.609 --> 00:27:05.509 really, really bright, which is awesome. Ross, 00:27:05.609 --> 00:27:07.049 if people want to reach out to you and find out 00:27:07.049 --> 00:27:08.509 more about Frugal and what you guys are doing, 00:27:08.630 --> 00:27:10.349 what's the best way of doing so? Yeah, so the 00:27:10.349 --> 00:27:13.289 best way of doing so is following me on LinkedIn. 00:27:13.650 --> 00:27:16.630 You can connect with me on there. You can also 00:27:16.630 --> 00:27:20.549 email me. That's the other angle. Probably more 00:27:20.549 --> 00:27:24.650 active on LinkedIn for anything sort of conversational 00:27:24.650 --> 00:27:27.349 related. My emails at the minute are very much 00:27:27.349 --> 00:27:30.380 day to day stuff. But yeah, on LinkedIn. Well, 00:27:30.480 --> 00:27:32.859 what's the best? You want me to put my handle 00:27:32.859 --> 00:27:34.859 or you put it in? Yeah, I can put your handle. 00:27:35.279 --> 00:27:37.880 Perfect. Yeah, that's the best way. Ross, thank 00:27:37.880 --> 00:27:39.079 you so much for your time. It's been an absolute 00:27:39.079 --> 00:27:42.640 pleasure. Perfect. Thank you, Ricardo. The podcast 00:27:42.640 --> 00:27:45.640 is also sponsored by Notion .so. Notion is offering 00:27:45.640 --> 00:27:48.220 six months for free for new users. Make sure 00:27:48.220 --> 00:27:50.680 you check out our website, thestoreupevents .co 00:27:50.680 --> 00:27:53.569 .uk to read in this offer. This podcast is also 00:27:53.569 --> 00:27:57.230 sponsored by startupnetworks .co .uk. Startup 00:27:57.230 --> 00:27:59.490 Networks, it's an online forum where you can 00:27:59.490 --> 00:28:01.650 find all the resources you need to run your startup, 00:28:02.210 --> 00:28:04.609 from grants to investors to tips and tricks on 00:28:04.609 --> 00:28:07.029 how to be successful in your startup. This podcast 00:28:07.029 --> 00:28:10.930 is also sponsored by ODEV Tech. ODEV Tech is 00:28:10.930 --> 00:28:13.190 your premier software development partner. 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