Welcome to the Innovation Conversation, a podcast
about innovators, both in business and real life.
Hosted by myself, Ricardo Rescual and Harry McCona.
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Hi, and welcome to another episode of the Innovation
Conversation. Today we are joined by Cyrus Wong.
Cyrus, welcome to the podcast. Thank you for
having me, Ricardo. It's a pleasure. Cyrus, would
you like to introduce yourself to the audience,
please? Yeah, for sure. So I'm a second time
founder already. I have my first business. where
I'm helping Chinese corporate migrate into EMEA.
So in simpler terms, I'm basically one of the
many agencies that help Chinese corporates do
social media expansion into Europe during COVID
period. And now I'm working on a fashion tech
startup. So quite busy, but you're also quite
young. Obviously the audience listening can see
that, but I know you're also quite young. So
how did you get started in this whole journey?
Because it's a big thing. Yeah. It has actually
been somehow unexpected, I would say, because
I never started my first business thinking, hey,
I want to start my first business. It just came
during the journey. So back then I was a bit
of a photographer as well as a videographer.
So I kind of liked this area, got my first camera,
started shooting around. Then not only am I shooting
with friends, but also helping in a lot of school
projects. Back then, around in 2017, 2018, when
I was, I think around 14, 15 years old, I started
doing like a lot of these like portfolios, started
like doing like obviously pro bono work for some
of the brands around me, some of the shops around
me, creating that initial and putting on social
media. And I remember at around 2019, early beginning,
This is when I started like posting very frequently,
like once every week or twice every week. Kind
of forgot already it was bit of a blur, but there
was multiple posts that got blown up where me
back then only having like four or 5 ,000 followers
on social media have like 30k likes and billion
impressions in one post. So somehow I got spotted
by an agency back then to started helping them
produce work. And this is when I started approaching
corporate clients, like corporate clients like
MG Motor. um, where really initiate the beginning
of the journey where I have a full portfolio
of very high profile companies. And this was
the period where COVID suddenly hits. And when
the whole world was like in a bit of a mess where
we don't know what is happening, like, you know,
the online situation was kind of bearing, you
can't be in a group of too many people. And this
is also where the business blew, right? Because
big production agency can no longer work at that
point. So it really relies back on like, like
us as freelancers to do. So I started getting
a lot and a lot more job opportunities, not only
like editing, but also shooting. And at a point
where, because I also am in high school back
then, I was like 16, 17 years old, I couldn't
handle all of this. So I started beginning forming
basically a network similar to an agency where
I passed down some of the work that I do not
want to do. to other editors or other freelancers
within the region and slowly it expanded to international.
And it was also at this point where I got the
possibility to pitch actually to the corporate
clients themselves of my ideas. For example,
during shoots, I remember very clearly one of
the first pitch that I was doing was a mall pitch.
So it's like a K and like pitch of how to shoot
a commercial of it recently awarded more right
so it was my first like idea of like how to put
together a pitch deck how to do a lot of this
stuff how to speak to a room of like 40 year
old or 45 year old or 50 year old right it was
a bit of hectic right everyone doesn't know how
to use zoom back then no one opened the camera
no one turned on the camera because people is
probably dressing in pajamas and stuff so i kind
of get away with my age by like not showing How
did they take that? Because obviously the CDC
young kids still in high school telling them
what to do. So I guess that must have been a
bit of a shock, I would imagine. Yeah, I think
it is, but I don't think till now they know I'm
like 17 something when I was like helping them.
So the agency definitely know my age because
they had a call with me and they actually invited
me to the office to do some work and they were
kind of shocked with the age that I'm at. But
also I think it is an advantage because I'm such
young age, I give an idea to, especially to those
clients who really want to capture the gen C
like kind of metrics kind of stuff. So since
I've got onboarded onto this project, we get
this like report. like monthly or bi -weekly
depending on the client needs on how much engagement
is this, what's the growth rate. So I also would
be able to see even though those reports are
for clients specifically. And then I see that
after I onboarded or maybe the ideas that we
propose, obviously there isn't a much up going
trend, like much more hit rate, much more conversion
rate. Obviously the client don't need to know
who I am back then, right? You just need to know
someone is helping them to earn more money. And
that's the most important thing. So I think that's
how I get away with it, like using numbers to
speak. But I think one very interesting thing
that kind of pivoted why these like large companies
like kind of like me, what's the way that I presented.
I remember my first pitch that I was telling
you the mall pitch, right? I failed very miserably,
right? I didn't get to job. for say it's my first
time actually pitching my deck was like horrendous
like like it's just bad but it was also at that
point where they say I like your idea I know
that you don't have the capability of doing that
So the person from the company actually invited
me over to do like a small like tech shoot. So,
you know, like before the actual shoot, you will
usually use your phone to kind of shoot some
of the demos and then try to piece together what
it's like before you're spending like money to
do the actual production. So back then they invited
me over and then throughout that half a year,
I slowly get to like talk to more like senior
executive and then also like get. granted access.
Somehow, I don't know how, even though I'm not
an employee to the internal portal. And because
I grant access to the internal portal, the way
that I kind of interact with Flank. I see how
they do the pitch boat. I see how they do invoices.
I see how they do contracts because everything
was in the same Google drive. So I'm just mimicking,
right? I'm copy and pasting. I don't know how
they're dealing with like corporate giants, but
they have such bad like security, like Like,
I don't know if I'm even allowed to say this,
but somehow I still got access to the Google
Drive and I'm still seeing the dual flows, but
that's basically how it goes. And mimicking and
learning, I think that was like one of the most
like important thing for me. And then over time,
because of this like mimicking and learning,
it get to a point where my deck is similar to
basically. what the agency is showing to the
client, if not even better. And that's how I
actually started to get like larger deals shop,
right? Not only just editing, but the whole video
production. And then slowly we moved to a social
media agency where we do the backend as well
as the admin work and then. Um, I remember in
2021, this is when we hit the metric of earning
over a million ARR in Hong Kong dollars. And
after that, yeah, I also moved to the UK because
of study reasons, but it also gives me a much
bigger market because obviously they are trying
to expand to UK and Europe. So having someone
to liaise the UK and Europe is much more easier
to do so, especially I can fly over to certain
larger shoots or larger events if I really need
to during the weekend and this even helped like
the company like built even further. So it was
quite a steep journey and it was like I don't
really know what I'm doing I'm just trying my
best to do whatever but somehow like throughout
it works out and this is where I am right now.
Okay so that is a lot when you're I don't know
16, 17, 18 that's quite a lot. were you how did
you even manage to do not to get started because
I kind of I know how like you're a young entrepreneur
you just want to get stuff done which I get but
you know what did you use as a guidance to like
because there's so many things that can go wrong
I mean there's so many doubts happening yeah
yeah definitely I think the guidance was just
hustling for it right knowing that I think the
initial drivers was obviously money because like
back then when you're 14 15 years old you don't
get much pocket money So the money I get was
quite beasted, right? I can cover my school fees.
I can buy like not whatever I want, but as a
kid at 14, 15, 16, 17, you probably can get whatever
you want at that age of time. So I think that
was the initial driver, but also I think it was
also like me trying to push myself harder because
I always wanted to have like something of my
own, right? And also to release the burden of
my family, because I come from a single family.
childhood. So because of this reason, this becomes
an important drivers at the very initial beginning.
Plus this is kind of my interest back then. I
think over time, it kind of changed because it's
more driven by contract, right? Because I want
to score larger dues. I want to score bigger
clients. I want to get bigger dues. So even though
I know my company might not be able to do it.
at that certain point, I know that I can always
expand the team if I really need to so that sometimes
like when I'm seeing clients, I will over promise
the stuff based on my current capacity. I know
that because the contract might be like a year's
time. By the time that year ended, I definitely
would be able to reach that. So using like this
like metric of I need to do it or else I will
break a contract kind of like mindset, kind of
push me further, which I know now is very dangerous.
So you should never do it. But actually, I think
that's exactly how you should run a business,
which is you over promise and you try and achieve
it every single time and be very transparent
about it. But I mean, you were quite young. I
mean, how did you get this drive? It's absolutely
mental. I mean, so young and because most kids
your age will be, I don't know, going to the
cinema, you know, finding funny relationships
and stuff like that. So how did that came to
be? Was it just a money thing or was it something
else? I think it's also the environment that
I was in. My family, my mom put me in one of
the best private schools in Hong Kong. And I
didn't came from a particularly wealthy family.
We were definitely decent enough that we can
live a normal life. But compared to people that
are around me at my school, it feels very isolated
and single. So at a very young age, what I would
see is there would be... a family going to Boston
to see a Celtics game because Friday is a holiday
for free days. And given that Hong Kong to Celtics
is like, Boston is like what, 13, 14 hours, give
or take. So like you just there see a game and
you leave. Like this is the kind of people that
I'm surrounded with, or maybe they will be going
to like out in the sea, maybe going to jets and
whatever. And I think, I don't think it impacted
me drastically, but it's also, I think it was
in this mindset. I know that there's a lot more
than what I was seeing or whatever that I was
taught at a very young age, right? There's a
much bigger world out there. There's a lot more
stuff I can see and a lot more stuff I can do.
And I think like trying to case this kind of
lifestyle or maybe like trying to be at maybe
a much more richer state is a richer state of
like being like, you know, Area where I could
kind of mimic this to my kids or maybe mimic
them to myself. I think this is that and other
driver I wouldn't say it's particularly money
But it's also like when you're growing up in
this environment for six seven eight years You
slowly get influenced and you want to be like
them, but you know you can't be like them So
you try to find a way to be like them kind of
like if you go to me. Yeah Like amongst your
friends and stuff like that Are you the only
one doing this many things or you have many friends
like you now? I'm sure you have many. Yeah, you're
growing up Did you have a lot of people or not
really? I think not really. I think I was kind
of the odd one out. Like I think realistically,
I think my school teachers think I would become
a failure or some sort because I'm not listening
in schools. I'm my failing grades, like not failing,
but near failing grades. Like given that we're
one of the best academic schools, like you're
competing with people that are actually studying
21st seven. So I'm definitely not great at my
school, but It was also because of that, that
I think teachers think I'm out of the book. I'm
doing a lot of stuff that is not within the framework
or not within the traditional sense of school.
And that's why I get called to like detention.
I think every other week or so, right? Like this,
this is my, like, yeah, this is my high school
life, right? I'm working on my laptop when The
teacher is talking and then the teachers come
over, take my laptop away, send me to detention
because I'm editing some footage for some clients.
And then I go back through the whole cycle again
and I get sent to detention and then get scolded.
And then like, yeah, but I think back then there
wasn't really a lot of people surrounded me like
that. So I. This is also why I think like communities
are very important. Obviously now in London and
LSE, I'm surrounded by so many like great people,
like very smart, like people at my age, some
of them may be older, they have successfully
raised money in like their entrepreneurial journey,
like been sharing and been like doing communities,
having dinners together. But I think this is
the kind of stuff that maybe as a young kid,
I didn't really think I would care that much.
But over time you realize like how important
this would help you to grow. And how, when you
moved to the UK to study, how did that feel like?
A shock or perfectly normal? I think it's quite
perfectly normal for me. I think I'm quite adaptable
as a person, especially when I moved from, I
think the biggest challenge for me would be moving
into Cambridge. When I come to the UK and move
to Cambridge first for two years for high school
before going to London for one and a half years
now. London, I think, is the least cultural shock
to me because obviously Hong Kong was British
colonial. It was a big city. So it isn't really
that much of a difference. I think the only difference
is that it's less convenient in comparison to
Hong Kong and stuff are more expensive. But I
think going into Cambridge, the biggest rather
I would say shock is the lifestyle is much more
free. Because in a way it's like, you're not
constrained by stuff. Even though I'm in high
school at that point, I can like literally, I
will have free lessons in between. I can leave
the campus whenever I want to. I can go to towns
during the middle of the day, if there is no
class, like kind of like semi -university, like
lifestyle kind of style. I think this lifestyle
change was not shocking, but it was like something
that I have to adapt to, but I quite adapted
it pretty fast. I think for the second thing
that was quite like, not shocking, but like something
that is quite different is how much more nature
there is. Like, I remember just like lying down
on Parker's beach, which is like a big park in
London with my friends like for two, three hours
talking. And it was like, Hey, it feels like
a childhood lifestyle that I have been missing
for the past like 16, seven years. So I think
for a portion of the time where I was like, more
free during that point because everything is
automated in my business already. I started like
having a bit of like enjoying life moment for
a bit. So I think that was like the best moments
and some of the things that really changed when
I moved to the UK. Interesting. What do you think
when the teachers would not scold you for actually
working at the same time you're studying? That
must have been quite a shock. I think they still
do. I remember back then like, because obviously
in the UK, I'm living in a dorm, right? And back
then, because I was shooting products, like product
related stuff for like brands, for example, like
OPPO, like Hisense, they would ship products
to me. And at the very early beginning, where
I don't really have a base, where I don't have
an office in the UK or a storage in the UK, I
would ask them to ship to my dorm. and my doormaster
would be like why is there like 60 phones in
my living room and i'm like Um, I don't know
how to explain. I can't explain what I'm doing
because I would get deported. Technically I'm
on a student visa. Am I allowed to say this?
You might have to cut this out. Yeah, I'm on
a student visa, so I'm not allowed to work back
then, but somehow I'm working and I cannot tell
my doormaster that I'm running a business that
is technically legally not under my name because
of legal issues and stuff. Um, yeah. And then
I get like vates sent to my like dorm, like phones
sent to my dorm. I have a 15 eight. 15, 8 inch
TV suddenly gets sent to my dorm as well because
it was part of a product shoot. And then my dorm
master was like, what the hell are you doing?
So I get, I also continue to get into trouble
in UK high school. It's not like I'm completely
out of it, but I think after like now when I'm
in uni, I go back and visit them and telling
them, Hey, what I was actually doing back then.
And there was like, oh, that was what. So I was
like, keep on like sending them updates, like,
oh, how I'm doing in my business. Some of the
like maybe panels or maybe press that I got,
I would send it to them. So we're in very good
terms, but it was like also a funny period where
because the scale of production get enlarged,
these funny moments kind of come on and off,
like very frequently back then. I'm curious on
one thing, cause you know, you're sorry, it's
absolutely fascinating, but I'm curious on...
your confidence because you're doing all these
your young kid and you know you're getting you're
getting to i would say a silly problem that most
entrepreneurs would probably not have which is
you're technically not allowed to get the products
for your business inside the place you're leaving
right so where do you find the confidence to
manage all this because this is like it's a lot
of things happening i think confidence wise is
an interesting thing growing up in my life at
a very young age i was actually very very shy
like I would cry on the most nonchalant thing
ever, like when I was like single digit. And
at a very young age, my mom pushed me to do a
lot of those like speech festival, music festival,
putting me on stage, like debate. And I think
slowly because I keep on being framed on stage,
I don't get stage fright anymore. And over time,
this confidence kind of get built upon. Right.
Obviously there are moments where your company
gets knocked down completely. Like even though
like it's such an interesting story, there's
a lot of roadblocks as you can probably imagine
in between that you'd be like, what am I supposed
to do? Maybe this is a legal trouble. Maybe there
is so many problems. Maybe I nearly like destroyed
a contract or for example. So I think the biggest
like way for me to build confidence and just
say, Hey, if I fail this time, or if I'm about
to fail, find a solution and learn from it. so
that next time I would do better so that I don't
have to face this embarrassment situation again.
And I think this kind of like slowly builds on
a lot of the stuff, like building on my confidence
and it really helps throughout the way because
I think confidence is also what helps me land
a lot of the deal that I'm not supposed to be
landing at this certain age of time. Yeah, I
think it goes both ways. And, you know, you obviously
develop a very flexible mindset in the sense
that you kind of know everything is a learning
experience. You just get feedback. There's no
right or wrong. It's just feedback, positive
feedback, negative feedback, but less feedback.
Now, a lot of people really struggle with this.
Do you think this was due to maybe a cultural
thing, whereas in people are more risk prone
in Hong Kong than they are in the UK overall?
Or just just so you think? I think it is. How
should I say, I think this mindset is seen within
the community I'm in right now. Like especially
in a lot of those entrepreneurial circles, like
president circles, a lot of them are very like
not, how should I say, they're very adaptable
to these kind of like failures. Like you see
them fail a lot of the time, even though they
won't tell you, but then they thrive from it
and learn from it and become a betterment of
themselves. I think this is a mindset that it's
not just a me thing, but it's something that
I see amongst a lot of people that are really,
really successful because failure definitely
comes. It's just that whether we will tell you
we fail in something. Right. Like I remember
like back in Hong Kong, I got, I received like
a letter of like tax related stuff and I need
to go to court to sort it. Right. As someone
who was like 19, this is like absolutely shocking.
Back then I don't even have like a lawyer to
help me to do a lot of these. So it's like some
of the failures that we receive, or maybe for
example, we got sued over some like, like contract
breaking stuff that I was mentioning just now.
And I think if I crumble at that point, the problem
still exists, right? My mindset is thinking like,
if I have to solve this problem either how or
not, even I'm happy or depressed or whatever,
why don't I just get it through as fast as possible?
And then I enjoy the time remaining. And I think
this is what is in a lot of like, like around
the community kind of like mindset that was built
out maybe through the very early ages, maybe
through the last ventures or through some of
the stuff that I experienced. I think this is
a very important mindset to have for like people
that are like really, really successful because
I think the more successful you are, the more
roadblocks you definitely have faced before you
have come to this like certain age or certain
point of time. Interesting. So you take bold
risks and you just keep on pushing. That's quite
unique. I think a lot of people kind of struggle
just even getting started. Yeah. What advice
would you give to someone your age right now
about to launch a business? I think just do it.
Like literally just do it. Don't go back and
be like, I cannot, I'm very young. I've seen
people at my age sold multiple businesses. And
this is absolutely ridiculous. They're even more
impressive than me. And why do they succeed?
Because they do it. Because they did it back
at the point where... you're probably doom scrolling
on Instagram. So I think like this, this is a
really important thing, right? You can have fun,
you can relax, you can do whatever, but there's
a lot of time, especially in university, especially
our age to explore and discover what you want
to do, right? You can do a lot of short applications.
You can do whatever you want to do. You can go
party all day. The life is becoming more yours.
And I think if you have an idea that you want
to do for it, first of all, be humble and learn.
and really ask people around, right? And then,
and also like prove some progress that you're
doing, right? Maybe do something, maybe a simple
landing page to prove that your things work by
getting customers or maybe like simply talking
to a bunch of people to know that this market
actually works or talk to previous people that
have been successful and they're trying to mimic
their route or get the advice. I think these
are some of the like more important stuff throughout
the roadmap that is really, really important
once you have started doing it. It's a really
long journey. So I think the next step after
you started doing this is to find a community
that you actually in that will support you to
do so. Because again, like I think if you're
never in such a community that is supportive,
you don't realize how important it is to you.
But once you're in it, you can never leave because
it's like the amount of support that they would
give you. Yeah, like it literally is like. The
amount of support that you would give, like I
was, I'm in multiple group chats in these community,
right? I've seen some of them will be like, Hey,
I just launched this product, try it out. Right.
And then every, like, there will be 80, 90 emojis,
reaction responses. And then people will be responding
within an hour saying, yes, I will go on it and
hop on it. Like you don't see this enthusiasm.
If you're not in a community and these enthusiasm
kind of drive you even further, especially when
entrepreneur is often something very lonely,
right? Very like solo is something that. you
face a lot of the struggles, a lot of the hardships
and why a lot of people kind of give up in the
middle. So I think just do it definitely as a
first, but then be humble, go to events, know
a lot more people and try to get some information
out of it. And then be confident, get into a
community, be confident. Don't think that just
because you're young, you can't do a lot of stuff.
I know a lot of people, especially investors
are looking for the next generations because
there are certain stuff that young people can
do. that is not necessarily what experienced
people can do in the industry because of how
their risk tolerance level had changed over time.
So I think like take this youth and do something
that you truly want and then just take a bet
out of it. What do you do on a bad day? I'm sure
you had plenty of bad days, so what do you do?
What do I do on a bad day? Good food. I love
food. Like I literally love food. So call my
friends, go get some food in, I don't know, like
some fancy restaurants or maybe like getting
boba or maybe like just sitting down to watch
a movie. I think that's something that would.
Why did you say boba? Now I fancy some. Or maybe
go get some Japanese sushi, you know. No, you're
the worst. Like now I'm numb. Yeah, that's not
good. But yeah, I think good food do helps. And
I think I kind of created this kind of, I don't
think I could like, I kind of created this lifestyle
that I'm doing now that like, you know, how like
probably yourself as well have a lot of coffee
chats throughout the day. And now instead of
asking for coffee chats, I would just ask for
breakfast, lunch and dinner, because it finds
it more fun to talk over something longer, right?
Especially like you get good food, both of you
are like happy, but at the same time, you get
into much deeper topics. And I think this is
something that. kind of help like me even in
a bad day even though I know I'm working even
though I know I'm meeting so many people because
there is good food it cures my bad day even though
I'm working so yeah it's a good system actually
yeah just invite people over for a meal there's
a saying you should never eat lunch alone right
I guess it's very true I'm quite curious on one
thing because obviously you come from a different
cultural background even though Hong Kong was
ruled by the British for many decades of all
centuries what was the last book you read and
most impactful book you read? I think the last
most impactful book that I read was interesting
question. The last book I read was still the
same book that you saw last time. Really talking
about, I forgot what's the name of the book.
What's the name of the book to remember? Territory
laws of success or something. It's by Robert
Green. No, 48 laws of power. Yeah. 48 laws of
power or something like this. I think it's really
impactful because I think once you get to a certain
point where you're growing up, you face a lot
of different information and a lot of different
ways you need to interact, right? Like how do
you interact with people older than you? How
do you interact with people at the same age as
you, right? Once you go into a networking event,
maybe a school networking event or private networking
event. how do you successfully balance this kind
of dynamic, right? Or maybe if someone is going
into an internship or maybe going to work in
full time, right? There's just like power dynamics
that you often have to like be on the lookout,
right? Like maybe it becomes intuitive to you
so that you don't really need to care about it,
but it's still important to acknowledge it. And
sometimes when you have like wine dining time
or when you're like talking with your friends
or maybe just having some self like moments to
think about your day or think about your week.
It's good to identify this moment and see what
you did well and what you did wrong. And I think
these small little moments can make someone like
you a lot and make the conversation goes really
well. First is the opposite where they don't
want to listen to you continuously and just stump
throughout the whole thing. Interesting. Very
good recommendations. It's actually one of my
favorite books. I guess I'm curious, what does
the future look like now? Because obviously you
still have the company started in Hong Kong.
So what are you going to do? So I think future
I want to definitely build up my fashion tech
business This is a startup that I've been thinking
about it for a while already, but actually working
on it for two three months So hopefully this
could get me somewhere. It's called Styleek by
the way, so it's an interesting company Is it
live already? Can we see the website? Oh, it's
not live. It's probably it will probably be live
in like seven eight months time maybe there will
be some like snippets demos before that but Official
launch definitely won't be that early. But I
think for me, like not only doing this, but also
creating more and more communities. Right. I
remember I spoke in Shanghai last year talking
about how can we build an entrepreneurial ecosystem,
speaking at LSE about the same similar topic,
but in rather than like multinational really
focusing on the UK. I think a lot of people are
pretty aware of this already. Right. Being in
London, we're not like Silicon Valley. We're
not like U S there is a different mindset. There's
a different. funding of capital but does it mean
that in UK or in London in particular this like
entrepreneurial like stuff is really not a good
place, I wouldn't say that because there's a
lot of like hidden projects or a lot of stuff
that is within UK that are getting pumped out
every day, but it's not getting utilized completely,
right? For example, a very good explanation.
Imperial college have a lot of good projects.
They have world -class lab. They have students
pumping out research and product every other
day within different labs that they have. But
they're not people that are really business -minded
driven, right? And sometimes what would happen
is that some projects over there would get lost
in an academic paper and that's it. But if that
got commercialized, it could be multi -million,
tens of millions, hundred million idea, but no
one actually has this like framework to actually
pair different people together, right? The same
things happen to Cambridge, same things happen
to Oxford, same thing happened to UCL. Even LSE
as well and KCO as well. So building this entrepreneurial
framework, building this ecosystem, not only
do you have pairing, not only do you have adequate
funding, but you're also looking at like the
whole global scenario, right? If there is injection
of capital from maybe like rich family offices
in Hong Kong and Singapore, will they change
mindset and started investing in EU or maybe
UK, like entrepreneurial projects or maybe like
startup projects. You see this kind of trends
might also change how a lot of this stuff. It's
happening in the UK. So I think like building
this entrepreneurial ecosystem is very important.
It's not something that one company can do or
multiple people can do, but it's something that
like it's a collective of people can do. I think
this is what is very important over time. Well,
now when we continue to talk to really like,
like something that I kind of want to build on
the side or help on the side, if I could definitely,
um, alongside whatever I'm doing now. Interesting.
And did you ever raise any money for your business?
No. For my first business, it was fully bootstrap.
OK. So that's actually quite impressive because
not only was it bootstrap, but you actually managed
to get it quite successful. So well done. Hey,
cheers. Cyrus, if people want to reach out to
you, what's the best way of doing so? The best
way, I think, would be through LinkedIn. You
can find me at Cyrus Wong, so you'll be able
to find me. Or if you want to see some of my
past projects or some of the past stuff, you
can go to my Instagram, which is Cyrus underscore
Momo. It's my nickname for 12 years, I think,
six years, seven years, something like that.
So do find me. Yep. Okay. All right. Sounds good.
Cyrus, thank you so much for your time. It's
been an absolute pleasure having you here. Thank
you, Ricardo. Thank you for having me. The podcast
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