WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.859 Welcome to the Innovation Conversation, a podcast 00:00:02.859 --> 00:00:05.419 about innovators, both in business and real life. 00:00:05.879 --> 00:00:08.380 Hosted by myself, Ricardo Rescual and Harry McCona. 00:00:08.480 --> 00:00:11.699 This podcast is also sponsored by ODEV Tech. 00:00:12.439 --> 00:00:14.640 ODEV Tech is your premier software development 00:00:14.640 --> 00:00:18.019 partner. Make sure you check them out at odev 00:00:18.019 --> 00:00:22.399 .tech. The podcast is also sponsored by Notion 00:00:22.399 --> 00:00:25.359 .so. Notion is offering six months for free for 00:00:25.359 --> 00:00:27.839 new users. Make sure you check out our website, 00:00:28.039 --> 00:00:30.539 thestoreofevents .co .uk to read into software. 00:00:30.780 --> 00:00:33.460 Hi, and welcome to another episode of the Innovation 00:00:33.460 --> 00:00:36.280 Conversation. Today we are joined by Cyrus Wong. 00:00:36.520 --> 00:00:38.799 Cyrus, welcome to the podcast. Thank you for 00:00:38.799 --> 00:00:41.219 having me, Ricardo. It's a pleasure. Cyrus, would 00:00:41.219 --> 00:00:42.619 you like to introduce yourself to the audience, 00:00:42.619 --> 00:00:45.979 please? Yeah, for sure. So I'm a second time 00:00:45.979 --> 00:00:48.850 founder already. I have my first business. where 00:00:48.850 --> 00:00:51.990 I'm helping Chinese corporate migrate into EMEA. 00:00:52.369 --> 00:00:54.350 So in simpler terms, I'm basically one of the 00:00:54.350 --> 00:00:56.869 many agencies that help Chinese corporates do 00:00:56.869 --> 00:01:00.130 social media expansion into Europe during COVID 00:01:00.130 --> 00:01:02.549 period. And now I'm working on a fashion tech 00:01:02.549 --> 00:01:05.450 startup. So quite busy, but you're also quite 00:01:05.450 --> 00:01:08.069 young. Obviously the audience listening can see 00:01:08.069 --> 00:01:10.609 that, but I know you're also quite young. So 00:01:10.609 --> 00:01:11.890 how did you get started in this whole journey? 00:01:12.049 --> 00:01:15.560 Because it's a big thing. Yeah. It has actually 00:01:15.560 --> 00:01:19.019 been somehow unexpected, I would say, because 00:01:19.019 --> 00:01:22.519 I never started my first business thinking, hey, 00:01:22.640 --> 00:01:25.079 I want to start my first business. It just came 00:01:25.079 --> 00:01:28.799 during the journey. So back then I was a bit 00:01:28.799 --> 00:01:31.739 of a photographer as well as a videographer. 00:01:32.200 --> 00:01:34.760 So I kind of liked this area, got my first camera, 00:01:35.000 --> 00:01:37.219 started shooting around. Then not only am I shooting 00:01:37.219 --> 00:01:40.260 with friends, but also helping in a lot of school 00:01:40.260 --> 00:01:44.849 projects. Back then, around in 2017, 2018, when 00:01:44.849 --> 00:01:48.069 I was, I think around 14, 15 years old, I started 00:01:48.069 --> 00:01:50.790 doing like a lot of these like portfolios, started 00:01:50.790 --> 00:01:53.849 like doing like obviously pro bono work for some 00:01:53.849 --> 00:01:56.230 of the brands around me, some of the shops around 00:01:56.230 --> 00:01:59.010 me, creating that initial and putting on social 00:01:59.010 --> 00:02:03.609 media. And I remember at around 2019, early beginning, 00:02:03.950 --> 00:02:06.609 This is when I started like posting very frequently, 00:02:07.150 --> 00:02:09.930 like once every week or twice every week. Kind 00:02:09.930 --> 00:02:12.370 of forgot already it was bit of a blur, but there 00:02:12.370 --> 00:02:15.569 was multiple posts that got blown up where me 00:02:15.569 --> 00:02:17.889 back then only having like four or 5 ,000 followers 00:02:17.889 --> 00:02:21.509 on social media have like 30k likes and billion 00:02:21.509 --> 00:02:25.210 impressions in one post. So somehow I got spotted 00:02:25.210 --> 00:02:28.430 by an agency back then to started helping them 00:02:28.430 --> 00:02:31.740 produce work. And this is when I started approaching 00:02:31.740 --> 00:02:33.719 corporate clients, like corporate clients like 00:02:33.719 --> 00:02:38.099 MG Motor. um, where really initiate the beginning 00:02:38.099 --> 00:02:40.180 of the journey where I have a full portfolio 00:02:40.180 --> 00:02:43.060 of very high profile companies. And this was 00:02:43.060 --> 00:02:46.139 the period where COVID suddenly hits. And when 00:02:46.139 --> 00:02:49.000 the whole world was like in a bit of a mess where 00:02:49.000 --> 00:02:51.120 we don't know what is happening, like, you know, 00:02:51.219 --> 00:02:53.599 the online situation was kind of bearing, you 00:02:53.599 --> 00:02:56.280 can't be in a group of too many people. And this 00:02:56.280 --> 00:02:59.780 is also where the business blew, right? Because 00:02:59.780 --> 00:03:02.599 big production agency can no longer work at that 00:03:02.599 --> 00:03:05.750 point. So it really relies back on like, like 00:03:05.750 --> 00:03:08.469 us as freelancers to do. So I started getting 00:03:08.469 --> 00:03:11.370 a lot and a lot more job opportunities, not only 00:03:11.370 --> 00:03:14.810 like editing, but also shooting. And at a point 00:03:14.810 --> 00:03:17.430 where, because I also am in high school back 00:03:17.430 --> 00:03:20.110 then, I was like 16, 17 years old, I couldn't 00:03:20.110 --> 00:03:22.969 handle all of this. So I started beginning forming 00:03:22.969 --> 00:03:25.810 basically a network similar to an agency where 00:03:25.810 --> 00:03:27.610 I passed down some of the work that I do not 00:03:27.610 --> 00:03:32.500 want to do. to other editors or other freelancers 00:03:32.500 --> 00:03:35.620 within the region and slowly it expanded to international. 00:03:35.879 --> 00:03:39.500 And it was also at this point where I got the 00:03:39.500 --> 00:03:42.159 possibility to pitch actually to the corporate 00:03:42.159 --> 00:03:44.800 clients themselves of my ideas. For example, 00:03:44.979 --> 00:03:47.620 during shoots, I remember very clearly one of 00:03:47.620 --> 00:03:50.840 the first pitch that I was doing was a mall pitch. 00:03:51.020 --> 00:03:53.759 So it's like a K and like pitch of how to shoot 00:03:53.759 --> 00:03:57.139 a commercial of it recently awarded more right 00:03:57.139 --> 00:04:00.860 so it was my first like idea of like how to put 00:04:00.860 --> 00:04:03.379 together a pitch deck how to do a lot of this 00:04:03.379 --> 00:04:06.479 stuff how to speak to a room of like 40 year 00:04:06.479 --> 00:04:09.280 old or 45 year old or 50 year old right it was 00:04:09.280 --> 00:04:11.520 a bit of hectic right everyone doesn't know how 00:04:11.520 --> 00:04:14.580 to use zoom back then no one opened the camera 00:04:14.580 --> 00:04:16.800 no one turned on the camera because people is 00:04:16.800 --> 00:04:19.040 probably dressing in pajamas and stuff so i kind 00:04:19.040 --> 00:04:23.310 of get away with my age by like not showing How 00:04:23.310 --> 00:04:24.910 did they take that? Because obviously the CDC 00:04:24.910 --> 00:04:27.370 young kids still in high school telling them 00:04:27.370 --> 00:04:29.889 what to do. So I guess that must have been a 00:04:29.889 --> 00:04:32.389 bit of a shock, I would imagine. Yeah, I think 00:04:32.389 --> 00:04:35.209 it is, but I don't think till now they know I'm 00:04:35.209 --> 00:04:37.870 like 17 something when I was like helping them. 00:04:38.269 --> 00:04:41.050 So the agency definitely know my age because 00:04:41.050 --> 00:04:43.790 they had a call with me and they actually invited 00:04:43.790 --> 00:04:45.829 me to the office to do some work and they were 00:04:45.829 --> 00:04:48.149 kind of shocked with the age that I'm at. But 00:04:48.149 --> 00:04:51.360 also I think it is an advantage because I'm such 00:04:51.360 --> 00:04:54.920 young age, I give an idea to, especially to those 00:04:54.920 --> 00:04:57.480 clients who really want to capture the gen C 00:04:57.480 --> 00:05:00.759 like kind of metrics kind of stuff. So since 00:05:00.759 --> 00:05:03.379 I've got onboarded onto this project, we get 00:05:03.379 --> 00:05:06.420 this like report. like monthly or bi -weekly 00:05:06.420 --> 00:05:08.959 depending on the client needs on how much engagement 00:05:08.959 --> 00:05:11.639 is this, what's the growth rate. So I also would 00:05:11.639 --> 00:05:13.660 be able to see even though those reports are 00:05:13.660 --> 00:05:15.899 for clients specifically. And then I see that 00:05:15.899 --> 00:05:18.240 after I onboarded or maybe the ideas that we 00:05:18.240 --> 00:05:20.740 propose, obviously there isn't a much up going 00:05:20.740 --> 00:05:23.360 trend, like much more hit rate, much more conversion 00:05:23.360 --> 00:05:25.689 rate. Obviously the client don't need to know 00:05:25.689 --> 00:05:27.470 who I am back then, right? You just need to know 00:05:27.470 --> 00:05:29.389 someone is helping them to earn more money. And 00:05:29.389 --> 00:05:31.310 that's the most important thing. So I think that's 00:05:31.310 --> 00:05:33.629 how I get away with it, like using numbers to 00:05:33.629 --> 00:05:35.769 speak. But I think one very interesting thing 00:05:35.769 --> 00:05:38.649 that kind of pivoted why these like large companies 00:05:38.649 --> 00:05:41.490 like kind of like me, what's the way that I presented. 00:05:41.689 --> 00:05:43.550 I remember my first pitch that I was telling 00:05:43.550 --> 00:05:46.509 you the mall pitch, right? I failed very miserably, 00:05:46.550 --> 00:05:50.139 right? I didn't get to job. for say it's my first 00:05:50.139 --> 00:05:53.519 time actually pitching my deck was like horrendous 00:05:53.519 --> 00:05:57.160 like like it's just bad but it was also at that 00:05:57.160 --> 00:05:59.420 point where they say I like your idea I know 00:05:59.420 --> 00:06:01.399 that you don't have the capability of doing that 00:06:01.500 --> 00:06:04.779 So the person from the company actually invited 00:06:04.779 --> 00:06:08.300 me over to do like a small like tech shoot. So, 00:06:08.360 --> 00:06:10.019 you know, like before the actual shoot, you will 00:06:10.019 --> 00:06:12.120 usually use your phone to kind of shoot some 00:06:12.120 --> 00:06:13.899 of the demos and then try to piece together what 00:06:13.899 --> 00:06:16.160 it's like before you're spending like money to 00:06:16.160 --> 00:06:19.180 do the actual production. So back then they invited 00:06:19.180 --> 00:06:22.199 me over and then throughout that half a year, 00:06:22.259 --> 00:06:24.699 I slowly get to like talk to more like senior 00:06:24.699 --> 00:06:28.410 executive and then also like get. granted access. 00:06:28.410 --> 00:06:30.389 Somehow, I don't know how, even though I'm not 00:06:30.389 --> 00:06:33.529 an employee to the internal portal. And because 00:06:33.529 --> 00:06:36.509 I grant access to the internal portal, the way 00:06:36.509 --> 00:06:39.649 that I kind of interact with Flank. I see how 00:06:39.649 --> 00:06:42.389 they do the pitch boat. I see how they do invoices. 00:06:42.509 --> 00:06:44.649 I see how they do contracts because everything 00:06:44.649 --> 00:06:47.470 was in the same Google drive. So I'm just mimicking, 00:06:47.569 --> 00:06:51.129 right? I'm copy and pasting. I don't know how 00:06:51.129 --> 00:06:53.350 they're dealing with like corporate giants, but 00:06:53.350 --> 00:06:56.300 they have such bad like security, like Like, 00:06:56.480 --> 00:06:58.240 I don't know if I'm even allowed to say this, 00:06:58.399 --> 00:07:00.360 but somehow I still got access to the Google 00:07:00.360 --> 00:07:03.079 Drive and I'm still seeing the dual flows, but 00:07:03.079 --> 00:07:05.819 that's basically how it goes. And mimicking and 00:07:05.819 --> 00:07:08.480 learning, I think that was like one of the most 00:07:08.480 --> 00:07:12.300 like important thing for me. And then over time, 00:07:12.500 --> 00:07:14.339 because of this like mimicking and learning, 00:07:14.699 --> 00:07:17.779 it get to a point where my deck is similar to 00:07:17.779 --> 00:07:20.500 basically. what the agency is showing to the 00:07:20.500 --> 00:07:23.060 client, if not even better. And that's how I 00:07:23.060 --> 00:07:25.120 actually started to get like larger deals shop, 00:07:25.240 --> 00:07:28.399 right? Not only just editing, but the whole video 00:07:28.399 --> 00:07:31.120 production. And then slowly we moved to a social 00:07:31.120 --> 00:07:33.980 media agency where we do the backend as well 00:07:33.980 --> 00:07:37.339 as the admin work and then. Um, I remember in 00:07:37.339 --> 00:07:41.180 2021, this is when we hit the metric of earning 00:07:41.180 --> 00:07:44.279 over a million ARR in Hong Kong dollars. And 00:07:44.279 --> 00:07:46.879 after that, yeah, I also moved to the UK because 00:07:46.879 --> 00:07:49.819 of study reasons, but it also gives me a much 00:07:49.819 --> 00:07:52.199 bigger market because obviously they are trying 00:07:52.199 --> 00:07:54.879 to expand to UK and Europe. So having someone 00:07:54.879 --> 00:07:58.480 to liaise the UK and Europe is much more easier 00:07:58.480 --> 00:08:01.810 to do so, especially I can fly over to certain 00:08:01.810 --> 00:08:04.389 larger shoots or larger events if I really need 00:08:04.389 --> 00:08:07.329 to during the weekend and this even helped like 00:08:07.329 --> 00:08:10.250 the company like built even further. So it was 00:08:10.250 --> 00:08:12.970 quite a steep journey and it was like I don't 00:08:12.970 --> 00:08:14.870 really know what I'm doing I'm just trying my 00:08:14.870 --> 00:08:17.209 best to do whatever but somehow like throughout 00:08:17.209 --> 00:08:19.810 it works out and this is where I am right now. 00:08:20.350 --> 00:08:23.310 Okay so that is a lot when you're I don't know 00:08:23.310 --> 00:08:27.629 16, 17, 18 that's quite a lot. were you how did 00:08:27.629 --> 00:08:29.949 you even manage to do not to get started because 00:08:29.949 --> 00:08:32.830 I kind of I know how like you're a young entrepreneur 00:08:32.830 --> 00:08:35.190 you just want to get stuff done which I get but 00:08:35.190 --> 00:08:37.789 you know what did you use as a guidance to like 00:08:37.789 --> 00:08:39.409 because there's so many things that can go wrong 00:08:39.409 --> 00:08:41.690 I mean there's so many doubts happening yeah 00:08:41.690 --> 00:08:46.590 yeah definitely I think the guidance was just 00:08:46.590 --> 00:08:49.129 hustling for it right knowing that I think the 00:08:49.129 --> 00:08:52.110 initial drivers was obviously money because like 00:08:52.110 --> 00:08:54.409 back then when you're 14 15 years old you don't 00:08:54.409 --> 00:08:57.159 get much pocket money So the money I get was 00:08:57.159 --> 00:09:00.100 quite beasted, right? I can cover my school fees. 00:09:00.320 --> 00:09:03.519 I can buy like not whatever I want, but as a 00:09:03.519 --> 00:09:06.820 kid at 14, 15, 16, 17, you probably can get whatever 00:09:06.820 --> 00:09:09.000 you want at that age of time. So I think that 00:09:09.000 --> 00:09:11.980 was the initial driver, but also I think it was 00:09:11.980 --> 00:09:14.399 also like me trying to push myself harder because 00:09:14.399 --> 00:09:17.100 I always wanted to have like something of my 00:09:17.100 --> 00:09:19.600 own, right? And also to release the burden of 00:09:19.600 --> 00:09:21.240 my family, because I come from a single family. 00:09:21.399 --> 00:09:24.059 childhood. So because of this reason, this becomes 00:09:24.059 --> 00:09:27.299 an important drivers at the very initial beginning. 00:09:27.620 --> 00:09:30.059 Plus this is kind of my interest back then. I 00:09:30.059 --> 00:09:33.299 think over time, it kind of changed because it's 00:09:33.299 --> 00:09:35.700 more driven by contract, right? Because I want 00:09:35.700 --> 00:09:37.940 to score larger dues. I want to score bigger 00:09:37.940 --> 00:09:40.820 clients. I want to get bigger dues. So even though 00:09:40.820 --> 00:09:43.519 I know my company might not be able to do it. 00:09:43.600 --> 00:09:46.399 at that certain point, I know that I can always 00:09:46.399 --> 00:09:50.220 expand the team if I really need to so that sometimes 00:09:50.220 --> 00:09:53.399 like when I'm seeing clients, I will over promise 00:09:53.399 --> 00:09:55.919 the stuff based on my current capacity. I know 00:09:55.919 --> 00:09:58.019 that because the contract might be like a year's 00:09:58.019 --> 00:10:00.600 time. By the time that year ended, I definitely 00:10:00.600 --> 00:10:02.960 would be able to reach that. So using like this 00:10:02.960 --> 00:10:05.940 like metric of I need to do it or else I will 00:10:05.940 --> 00:10:08.299 break a contract kind of like mindset, kind of 00:10:08.299 --> 00:10:10.899 push me further, which I know now is very dangerous. 00:10:10.940 --> 00:10:14.690 So you should never do it. But actually, I think 00:10:14.690 --> 00:10:16.129 that's exactly how you should run a business, 00:10:16.330 --> 00:10:19.529 which is you over promise and you try and achieve 00:10:19.529 --> 00:10:21.470 it every single time and be very transparent 00:10:21.470 --> 00:10:23.730 about it. But I mean, you were quite young. I 00:10:23.730 --> 00:10:25.649 mean, how did you get this drive? It's absolutely 00:10:25.649 --> 00:10:27.730 mental. I mean, so young and because most kids 00:10:27.730 --> 00:10:29.269 your age will be, I don't know, going to the 00:10:29.269 --> 00:10:31.210 cinema, you know, finding funny relationships 00:10:31.210 --> 00:10:34.169 and stuff like that. So how did that came to 00:10:34.169 --> 00:10:36.269 be? Was it just a money thing or was it something 00:10:36.269 --> 00:10:39.370 else? I think it's also the environment that 00:10:39.370 --> 00:10:43.250 I was in. My family, my mom put me in one of 00:10:43.250 --> 00:10:46.509 the best private schools in Hong Kong. And I 00:10:46.509 --> 00:10:48.850 didn't came from a particularly wealthy family. 00:10:49.190 --> 00:10:53.070 We were definitely decent enough that we can 00:10:53.070 --> 00:10:55.929 live a normal life. But compared to people that 00:10:55.929 --> 00:10:58.970 are around me at my school, it feels very isolated 00:10:58.970 --> 00:11:02.049 and single. So at a very young age, what I would 00:11:02.049 --> 00:11:05.970 see is there would be... a family going to Boston 00:11:05.970 --> 00:11:09.110 to see a Celtics game because Friday is a holiday 00:11:09.110 --> 00:11:12.929 for free days. And given that Hong Kong to Celtics 00:11:12.929 --> 00:11:15.629 is like, Boston is like what, 13, 14 hours, give 00:11:15.629 --> 00:11:18.190 or take. So like you just there see a game and 00:11:18.190 --> 00:11:20.029 you leave. Like this is the kind of people that 00:11:20.029 --> 00:11:22.210 I'm surrounded with, or maybe they will be going 00:11:22.210 --> 00:11:25.090 to like out in the sea, maybe going to jets and 00:11:25.090 --> 00:11:27.649 whatever. And I think, I don't think it impacted 00:11:27.649 --> 00:11:30.330 me drastically, but it's also, I think it was 00:11:30.330 --> 00:11:33.169 in this mindset. I know that there's a lot more 00:11:33.169 --> 00:11:36.220 than what I was seeing or whatever that I was 00:11:36.220 --> 00:11:38.019 taught at a very young age, right? There's a 00:11:38.019 --> 00:11:40.980 much bigger world out there. There's a lot more 00:11:40.980 --> 00:11:42.879 stuff I can see and a lot more stuff I can do. 00:11:43.039 --> 00:11:45.340 And I think like trying to case this kind of 00:11:45.340 --> 00:11:48.639 lifestyle or maybe like trying to be at maybe 00:11:48.639 --> 00:11:51.220 a much more richer state is a richer state of 00:11:51.220 --> 00:11:53.899 like being like, you know, Area where I could 00:11:53.899 --> 00:11:55.899 kind of mimic this to my kids or maybe mimic 00:11:55.899 --> 00:11:58.299 them to myself. I think this is that and other 00:11:58.299 --> 00:12:00.299 driver I wouldn't say it's particularly money 00:12:00.299 --> 00:12:03.019 But it's also like when you're growing up in 00:12:03.019 --> 00:12:05.559 this environment for six seven eight years You 00:12:05.559 --> 00:12:07.500 slowly get influenced and you want to be like 00:12:07.500 --> 00:12:08.980 them, but you know you can't be like them So 00:12:08.980 --> 00:12:10.799 you try to find a way to be like them kind of 00:12:10.799 --> 00:12:14.120 like if you go to me. Yeah Like amongst your 00:12:14.120 --> 00:12:16.500 friends and stuff like that Are you the only 00:12:16.500 --> 00:12:18.980 one doing this many things or you have many friends 00:12:18.980 --> 00:12:21.720 like you now? I'm sure you have many. Yeah, you're 00:12:21.720 --> 00:12:24.129 growing up Did you have a lot of people or not 00:12:24.129 --> 00:12:26.909 really? I think not really. I think I was kind 00:12:26.909 --> 00:12:29.230 of the odd one out. Like I think realistically, 00:12:29.610 --> 00:12:31.710 I think my school teachers think I would become 00:12:31.710 --> 00:12:34.169 a failure or some sort because I'm not listening 00:12:34.169 --> 00:12:37.690 in schools. I'm my failing grades, like not failing, 00:12:37.850 --> 00:12:39.889 but near failing grades. Like given that we're 00:12:39.889 --> 00:12:42.090 one of the best academic schools, like you're 00:12:42.090 --> 00:12:43.809 competing with people that are actually studying 00:12:43.809 --> 00:12:46.210 21st seven. So I'm definitely not great at my 00:12:46.210 --> 00:12:48.870 school, but It was also because of that, that 00:12:48.870 --> 00:12:51.190 I think teachers think I'm out of the book. I'm 00:12:51.190 --> 00:12:53.289 doing a lot of stuff that is not within the framework 00:12:53.289 --> 00:12:55.350 or not within the traditional sense of school. 00:12:55.889 --> 00:12:57.769 And that's why I get called to like detention. 00:12:57.769 --> 00:13:01.429 I think every other week or so, right? Like this, 00:13:01.509 --> 00:13:03.649 this is my, like, yeah, this is my high school 00:13:03.649 --> 00:13:06.539 life, right? I'm working on my laptop when The 00:13:06.539 --> 00:13:08.779 teacher is talking and then the teachers come 00:13:08.779 --> 00:13:11.279 over, take my laptop away, send me to detention 00:13:11.279 --> 00:13:13.600 because I'm editing some footage for some clients. 00:13:13.879 --> 00:13:16.080 And then I go back through the whole cycle again 00:13:16.080 --> 00:13:18.700 and I get sent to detention and then get scolded. 00:13:18.919 --> 00:13:21.600 And then like, yeah, but I think back then there 00:13:21.600 --> 00:13:24.120 wasn't really a lot of people surrounded me like 00:13:24.120 --> 00:13:27.200 that. So I. This is also why I think like communities 00:13:27.200 --> 00:13:30.000 are very important. Obviously now in London and 00:13:30.000 --> 00:13:32.919 LSE, I'm surrounded by so many like great people, 00:13:33.460 --> 00:13:35.779 like very smart, like people at my age, some 00:13:35.779 --> 00:13:37.740 of them may be older, they have successfully 00:13:37.740 --> 00:13:40.740 raised money in like their entrepreneurial journey, 00:13:40.919 --> 00:13:43.580 like been sharing and been like doing communities, 00:13:43.820 --> 00:13:45.940 having dinners together. But I think this is 00:13:45.940 --> 00:13:48.159 the kind of stuff that maybe as a young kid, 00:13:48.159 --> 00:13:50.200 I didn't really think I would care that much. 00:13:50.360 --> 00:13:52.340 But over time you realize like how important 00:13:52.340 --> 00:13:55.009 this would help you to grow. And how, when you 00:13:55.009 --> 00:13:58.490 moved to the UK to study, how did that feel like? 00:13:59.509 --> 00:14:03.669 A shock or perfectly normal? I think it's quite 00:14:03.669 --> 00:14:06.169 perfectly normal for me. I think I'm quite adaptable 00:14:06.169 --> 00:14:09.269 as a person, especially when I moved from, I 00:14:09.269 --> 00:14:12.250 think the biggest challenge for me would be moving 00:14:12.250 --> 00:14:14.549 into Cambridge. When I come to the UK and move 00:14:14.549 --> 00:14:17.049 to Cambridge first for two years for high school 00:14:17.049 --> 00:14:20.350 before going to London for one and a half years 00:14:20.350 --> 00:14:23.240 now. London, I think, is the least cultural shock 00:14:23.240 --> 00:14:25.299 to me because obviously Hong Kong was British 00:14:25.299 --> 00:14:28.320 colonial. It was a big city. So it isn't really 00:14:28.320 --> 00:14:30.279 that much of a difference. I think the only difference 00:14:30.279 --> 00:14:32.919 is that it's less convenient in comparison to 00:14:32.919 --> 00:14:35.200 Hong Kong and stuff are more expensive. But I 00:14:35.200 --> 00:14:38.139 think going into Cambridge, the biggest rather 00:14:38.139 --> 00:14:41.519 I would say shock is the lifestyle is much more 00:14:41.519 --> 00:14:44.100 free. Because in a way it's like, you're not 00:14:44.100 --> 00:14:46.120 constrained by stuff. Even though I'm in high 00:14:46.120 --> 00:14:49.039 school at that point, I can like literally, I 00:14:49.039 --> 00:14:51.360 will have free lessons in between. I can leave 00:14:51.360 --> 00:14:54.879 the campus whenever I want to. I can go to towns 00:14:54.879 --> 00:14:56.840 during the middle of the day, if there is no 00:14:56.840 --> 00:14:59.940 class, like kind of like semi -university, like 00:14:59.940 --> 00:15:02.720 lifestyle kind of style. I think this lifestyle 00:15:02.720 --> 00:15:05.539 change was not shocking, but it was like something 00:15:05.539 --> 00:15:07.500 that I have to adapt to, but I quite adapted 00:15:07.500 --> 00:15:10.509 it pretty fast. I think for the second thing 00:15:10.509 --> 00:15:12.710 that was quite like, not shocking, but like something 00:15:12.710 --> 00:15:15.710 that is quite different is how much more nature 00:15:15.710 --> 00:15:18.769 there is. Like, I remember just like lying down 00:15:18.769 --> 00:15:21.289 on Parker's beach, which is like a big park in 00:15:21.289 --> 00:15:23.870 London with my friends like for two, three hours 00:15:23.870 --> 00:15:26.470 talking. And it was like, Hey, it feels like 00:15:26.470 --> 00:15:28.450 a childhood lifestyle that I have been missing 00:15:28.450 --> 00:15:31.909 for the past like 16, seven years. So I think 00:15:31.909 --> 00:15:34.740 for a portion of the time where I was like, more 00:15:34.740 --> 00:15:36.799 free during that point because everything is 00:15:36.799 --> 00:15:39.759 automated in my business already. I started like 00:15:39.759 --> 00:15:41.840 having a bit of like enjoying life moment for 00:15:41.840 --> 00:15:44.019 a bit. So I think that was like the best moments 00:15:44.019 --> 00:15:46.179 and some of the things that really changed when 00:15:46.179 --> 00:15:48.960 I moved to the UK. Interesting. What do you think 00:15:48.960 --> 00:15:51.419 when the teachers would not scold you for actually 00:15:51.419 --> 00:15:53.879 working at the same time you're studying? That 00:15:53.879 --> 00:15:57.039 must have been quite a shock. I think they still 00:15:57.039 --> 00:16:01.460 do. I remember back then like, because obviously 00:16:01.460 --> 00:16:05.340 in the UK, I'm living in a dorm, right? And back 00:16:05.340 --> 00:16:09.059 then, because I was shooting products, like product 00:16:09.059 --> 00:16:12.220 related stuff for like brands, for example, like 00:16:12.220 --> 00:16:15.120 OPPO, like Hisense, they would ship products 00:16:15.120 --> 00:16:18.659 to me. And at the very early beginning, where 00:16:18.659 --> 00:16:20.980 I don't really have a base, where I don't have 00:16:20.980 --> 00:16:23.820 an office in the UK or a storage in the UK, I 00:16:23.820 --> 00:16:27.259 would ask them to ship to my dorm. and my doormaster 00:16:27.259 --> 00:16:30.419 would be like why is there like 60 phones in 00:16:30.419 --> 00:16:33.409 my living room and i'm like Um, I don't know 00:16:33.409 --> 00:16:35.669 how to explain. I can't explain what I'm doing 00:16:35.669 --> 00:16:37.529 because I would get deported. Technically I'm 00:16:37.529 --> 00:16:40.090 on a student visa. Am I allowed to say this? 00:16:40.149 --> 00:16:42.590 You might have to cut this out. Yeah, I'm on 00:16:42.590 --> 00:16:45.590 a student visa, so I'm not allowed to work back 00:16:45.590 --> 00:16:48.210 then, but somehow I'm working and I cannot tell 00:16:48.210 --> 00:16:51.129 my doormaster that I'm running a business that 00:16:51.129 --> 00:16:53.649 is technically legally not under my name because 00:16:53.649 --> 00:16:56.070 of legal issues and stuff. Um, yeah. And then 00:16:56.070 --> 00:16:59.970 I get like vates sent to my like dorm, like phones 00:16:59.970 --> 00:17:03.230 sent to my dorm. I have a 15 eight. 15, 8 inch 00:17:03.230 --> 00:17:05.230 TV suddenly gets sent to my dorm as well because 00:17:05.230 --> 00:17:07.910 it was part of a product shoot. And then my dorm 00:17:07.910 --> 00:17:09.470 master was like, what the hell are you doing? 00:17:09.589 --> 00:17:12.150 So I get, I also continue to get into trouble 00:17:12.150 --> 00:17:14.750 in UK high school. It's not like I'm completely 00:17:14.750 --> 00:17:17.750 out of it, but I think after like now when I'm 00:17:17.750 --> 00:17:19.730 in uni, I go back and visit them and telling 00:17:19.730 --> 00:17:22.150 them, Hey, what I was actually doing back then. 00:17:22.410 --> 00:17:24.430 And there was like, oh, that was what. So I was 00:17:24.430 --> 00:17:26.670 like, keep on like sending them updates, like, 00:17:26.890 --> 00:17:29.450 oh, how I'm doing in my business. Some of the 00:17:29.450 --> 00:17:31.750 like maybe panels or maybe press that I got, 00:17:31.809 --> 00:17:33.569 I would send it to them. So we're in very good 00:17:33.569 --> 00:17:35.910 terms, but it was like also a funny period where 00:17:35.910 --> 00:17:38.750 because the scale of production get enlarged, 00:17:38.950 --> 00:17:41.289 these funny moments kind of come on and off, 00:17:41.609 --> 00:17:44.049 like very frequently back then. I'm curious on 00:17:44.049 --> 00:17:45.910 one thing, cause you know, you're sorry, it's 00:17:45.910 --> 00:17:48.789 absolutely fascinating, but I'm curious on... 00:17:48.539 --> 00:17:50.920 your confidence because you're doing all these 00:17:50.920 --> 00:17:52.700 your young kid and you know you're getting you're 00:17:52.700 --> 00:17:55.859 getting to i would say a silly problem that most 00:17:55.859 --> 00:17:57.460 entrepreneurs would probably not have which is 00:17:57.460 --> 00:17:59.720 you're technically not allowed to get the products 00:17:59.720 --> 00:18:01.900 for your business inside the place you're leaving 00:18:01.900 --> 00:18:04.200 right so where do you find the confidence to 00:18:04.200 --> 00:18:06.220 manage all this because this is like it's a lot 00:18:06.220 --> 00:18:10.500 of things happening i think confidence wise is 00:18:10.500 --> 00:18:14.200 an interesting thing growing up in my life at 00:18:14.200 --> 00:18:16.819 a very young age i was actually very very shy 00:18:16.819 --> 00:18:19.940 like I would cry on the most nonchalant thing 00:18:19.940 --> 00:18:22.740 ever, like when I was like single digit. And 00:18:22.740 --> 00:18:25.119 at a very young age, my mom pushed me to do a 00:18:25.119 --> 00:18:28.140 lot of those like speech festival, music festival, 00:18:28.440 --> 00:18:31.319 putting me on stage, like debate. And I think 00:18:31.319 --> 00:18:34.539 slowly because I keep on being framed on stage, 00:18:34.799 --> 00:18:37.140 I don't get stage fright anymore. And over time, 00:18:37.380 --> 00:18:39.710 this confidence kind of get built upon. Right. 00:18:39.970 --> 00:18:41.630 Obviously there are moments where your company 00:18:41.630 --> 00:18:44.170 gets knocked down completely. Like even though 00:18:44.170 --> 00:18:46.150 like it's such an interesting story, there's 00:18:46.150 --> 00:18:48.309 a lot of roadblocks as you can probably imagine 00:18:48.309 --> 00:18:50.789 in between that you'd be like, what am I supposed 00:18:50.789 --> 00:18:53.410 to do? Maybe this is a legal trouble. Maybe there 00:18:53.410 --> 00:18:56.430 is so many problems. Maybe I nearly like destroyed 00:18:56.430 --> 00:19:00.450 a contract or for example. So I think the biggest 00:19:00.450 --> 00:19:03.089 like way for me to build confidence and just 00:19:03.089 --> 00:19:06.450 say, Hey, if I fail this time, or if I'm about 00:19:06.450 --> 00:19:09.259 to fail, find a solution and learn from it. so 00:19:09.259 --> 00:19:11.900 that next time I would do better so that I don't 00:19:11.900 --> 00:19:14.359 have to face this embarrassment situation again. 00:19:14.740 --> 00:19:17.099 And I think this kind of like slowly builds on 00:19:17.099 --> 00:19:19.440 a lot of the stuff, like building on my confidence 00:19:19.440 --> 00:19:21.880 and it really helps throughout the way because 00:19:21.880 --> 00:19:24.539 I think confidence is also what helps me land 00:19:24.539 --> 00:19:26.559 a lot of the deal that I'm not supposed to be 00:19:26.559 --> 00:19:29.059 landing at this certain age of time. Yeah, I 00:19:29.059 --> 00:19:31.880 think it goes both ways. And, you know, you obviously 00:19:31.880 --> 00:19:34.680 develop a very flexible mindset in the sense 00:19:34.680 --> 00:19:36.599 that you kind of know everything is a learning 00:19:36.599 --> 00:19:38.359 experience. You just get feedback. There's no 00:19:38.359 --> 00:19:40.000 right or wrong. It's just feedback, positive 00:19:40.000 --> 00:19:42.579 feedback, negative feedback, but less feedback. 00:19:43.140 --> 00:19:45.039 Now, a lot of people really struggle with this. 00:19:45.079 --> 00:19:48.559 Do you think this was due to maybe a cultural 00:19:48.559 --> 00:19:51.819 thing, whereas in people are more risk prone 00:19:51.819 --> 00:19:54.019 in Hong Kong than they are in the UK overall? 00:19:54.940 --> 00:19:58.539 Or just just so you think? I think it is. How 00:19:58.539 --> 00:20:00.980 should I say, I think this mindset is seen within 00:20:00.980 --> 00:20:03.140 the community I'm in right now. Like especially 00:20:03.140 --> 00:20:06.200 in a lot of those entrepreneurial circles, like 00:20:06.200 --> 00:20:09.740 president circles, a lot of them are very like 00:20:09.740 --> 00:20:12.240 not, how should I say, they're very adaptable 00:20:12.240 --> 00:20:14.519 to these kind of like failures. Like you see 00:20:14.519 --> 00:20:16.599 them fail a lot of the time, even though they 00:20:16.599 --> 00:20:20.160 won't tell you, but then they thrive from it 00:20:20.160 --> 00:20:21.940 and learn from it and become a betterment of 00:20:21.940 --> 00:20:24.740 themselves. I think this is a mindset that it's 00:20:24.740 --> 00:20:26.779 not just a me thing, but it's something that 00:20:26.829 --> 00:20:29.390 I see amongst a lot of people that are really, 00:20:29.390 --> 00:20:31.809 really successful because failure definitely 00:20:31.809 --> 00:20:33.829 comes. It's just that whether we will tell you 00:20:33.829 --> 00:20:36.930 we fail in something. Right. Like I remember 00:20:36.930 --> 00:20:39.849 like back in Hong Kong, I got, I received like 00:20:39.849 --> 00:20:42.990 a letter of like tax related stuff and I need 00:20:42.990 --> 00:20:45.130 to go to court to sort it. Right. As someone 00:20:45.130 --> 00:20:47.450 who was like 19, this is like absolutely shocking. 00:20:47.880 --> 00:20:50.220 Back then I don't even have like a lawyer to 00:20:50.220 --> 00:20:52.400 help me to do a lot of these. So it's like some 00:20:52.400 --> 00:20:54.380 of the failures that we receive, or maybe for 00:20:54.380 --> 00:20:57.839 example, we got sued over some like, like contract 00:20:57.839 --> 00:20:59.619 breaking stuff that I was mentioning just now. 00:20:59.839 --> 00:21:03.240 And I think if I crumble at that point, the problem 00:21:03.240 --> 00:21:05.500 still exists, right? My mindset is thinking like, 00:21:06.019 --> 00:21:09.440 if I have to solve this problem either how or 00:21:09.440 --> 00:21:12.079 not, even I'm happy or depressed or whatever, 00:21:12.539 --> 00:21:15.180 why don't I just get it through as fast as possible? 00:21:15.339 --> 00:21:17.460 And then I enjoy the time remaining. And I think 00:21:17.460 --> 00:21:21.240 this is what is in a lot of like, like around 00:21:21.240 --> 00:21:23.440 the community kind of like mindset that was built 00:21:23.440 --> 00:21:25.960 out maybe through the very early ages, maybe 00:21:25.960 --> 00:21:27.839 through the last ventures or through some of 00:21:27.839 --> 00:21:29.980 the stuff that I experienced. I think this is 00:21:29.980 --> 00:21:32.500 a very important mindset to have for like people 00:21:32.500 --> 00:21:34.579 that are like really, really successful because 00:21:34.579 --> 00:21:37.279 I think the more successful you are, the more 00:21:37.279 --> 00:21:39.200 roadblocks you definitely have faced before you 00:21:39.200 --> 00:21:41.319 have come to this like certain age or certain 00:21:41.319 --> 00:21:43.529 point of time. Interesting. So you take bold 00:21:43.529 --> 00:21:46.349 risks and you just keep on pushing. That's quite 00:21:46.349 --> 00:21:48.309 unique. I think a lot of people kind of struggle 00:21:48.309 --> 00:21:51.930 just even getting started. Yeah. What advice 00:21:51.930 --> 00:21:55.289 would you give to someone your age right now 00:21:55.289 --> 00:21:59.410 about to launch a business? I think just do it. 00:21:59.690 --> 00:22:02.670 Like literally just do it. Don't go back and 00:22:02.670 --> 00:22:06.230 be like, I cannot, I'm very young. I've seen 00:22:06.230 --> 00:22:10.650 people at my age sold multiple businesses. And 00:22:10.650 --> 00:22:13.890 this is absolutely ridiculous. They're even more 00:22:13.890 --> 00:22:16.250 impressive than me. And why do they succeed? 00:22:16.849 --> 00:22:19.170 Because they do it. Because they did it back 00:22:19.170 --> 00:22:21.420 at the point where... you're probably doom scrolling 00:22:21.420 --> 00:22:25.319 on Instagram. So I think like this, this is a 00:22:25.319 --> 00:22:27.640 really important thing, right? You can have fun, 00:22:27.640 --> 00:22:30.259 you can relax, you can do whatever, but there's 00:22:30.259 --> 00:22:32.880 a lot of time, especially in university, especially 00:22:32.880 --> 00:22:35.140 our age to explore and discover what you want 00:22:35.140 --> 00:22:38.119 to do, right? You can do a lot of short applications. 00:22:38.480 --> 00:22:41.279 You can do whatever you want to do. You can go 00:22:41.279 --> 00:22:43.720 party all day. The life is becoming more yours. 00:22:43.740 --> 00:22:46.019 And I think if you have an idea that you want 00:22:46.019 --> 00:22:48.519 to do for it, first of all, be humble and learn. 00:22:48.750 --> 00:22:51.849 and really ask people around, right? And then, 00:22:51.849 --> 00:22:54.190 and also like prove some progress that you're 00:22:54.190 --> 00:22:56.630 doing, right? Maybe do something, maybe a simple 00:22:56.630 --> 00:22:58.849 landing page to prove that your things work by 00:22:58.849 --> 00:23:01.670 getting customers or maybe like simply talking 00:23:01.670 --> 00:23:04.029 to a bunch of people to know that this market 00:23:04.029 --> 00:23:06.250 actually works or talk to previous people that 00:23:06.250 --> 00:23:08.450 have been successful and they're trying to mimic 00:23:08.450 --> 00:23:10.450 their route or get the advice. I think these 00:23:10.450 --> 00:23:12.730 are some of the like more important stuff throughout 00:23:12.730 --> 00:23:14.750 the roadmap that is really, really important 00:23:14.750 --> 00:23:17.460 once you have started doing it. It's a really 00:23:17.460 --> 00:23:19.539 long journey. So I think the next step after 00:23:19.539 --> 00:23:21.619 you started doing this is to find a community 00:23:21.619 --> 00:23:24.579 that you actually in that will support you to 00:23:24.579 --> 00:23:27.039 do so. Because again, like I think if you're 00:23:27.039 --> 00:23:28.859 never in such a community that is supportive, 00:23:28.960 --> 00:23:31.000 you don't realize how important it is to you. 00:23:31.200 --> 00:23:33.559 But once you're in it, you can never leave because 00:23:33.559 --> 00:23:35.779 it's like the amount of support that they would 00:23:35.779 --> 00:23:40.440 give you. Yeah, like it literally is like. The 00:23:40.440 --> 00:23:42.299 amount of support that you would give, like I 00:23:42.299 --> 00:23:44.720 was, I'm in multiple group chats in these community, 00:23:44.720 --> 00:23:47.220 right? I've seen some of them will be like, Hey, 00:23:47.480 --> 00:23:49.740 I just launched this product, try it out. Right. 00:23:49.859 --> 00:23:52.420 And then every, like, there will be 80, 90 emojis, 00:23:52.579 --> 00:23:54.859 reaction responses. And then people will be responding 00:23:54.859 --> 00:23:56.920 within an hour saying, yes, I will go on it and 00:23:56.920 --> 00:23:59.220 hop on it. Like you don't see this enthusiasm. 00:23:59.640 --> 00:24:02.059 If you're not in a community and these enthusiasm 00:24:02.059 --> 00:24:04.920 kind of drive you even further, especially when 00:24:04.920 --> 00:24:07.119 entrepreneur is often something very lonely, 00:24:07.279 --> 00:24:10.210 right? Very like solo is something that. you 00:24:10.210 --> 00:24:12.450 face a lot of the struggles, a lot of the hardships 00:24:12.450 --> 00:24:14.609 and why a lot of people kind of give up in the 00:24:14.609 --> 00:24:17.089 middle. So I think just do it definitely as a 00:24:17.089 --> 00:24:20.470 first, but then be humble, go to events, know 00:24:20.470 --> 00:24:22.769 a lot more people and try to get some information 00:24:22.769 --> 00:24:25.730 out of it. And then be confident, get into a 00:24:25.730 --> 00:24:28.390 community, be confident. Don't think that just 00:24:28.390 --> 00:24:30.430 because you're young, you can't do a lot of stuff. 00:24:30.769 --> 00:24:33.289 I know a lot of people, especially investors 00:24:33.289 --> 00:24:35.789 are looking for the next generations because 00:24:35.789 --> 00:24:38.410 there are certain stuff that young people can 00:24:38.410 --> 00:24:42.579 do. that is not necessarily what experienced 00:24:42.579 --> 00:24:45.059 people can do in the industry because of how 00:24:45.059 --> 00:24:47.279 their risk tolerance level had changed over time. 00:24:47.720 --> 00:24:50.579 So I think like take this youth and do something 00:24:50.579 --> 00:24:54.519 that you truly want and then just take a bet 00:24:54.519 --> 00:24:58.900 out of it. What do you do on a bad day? I'm sure 00:24:58.900 --> 00:25:00.759 you had plenty of bad days, so what do you do? 00:25:01.500 --> 00:25:03.960 What do I do on a bad day? Good food. I love 00:25:03.960 --> 00:25:06.660 food. Like I literally love food. So call my 00:25:06.660 --> 00:25:09.400 friends, go get some food in, I don't know, like 00:25:09.400 --> 00:25:11.960 some fancy restaurants or maybe like getting 00:25:11.960 --> 00:25:14.839 boba or maybe like just sitting down to watch 00:25:14.839 --> 00:25:16.619 a movie. I think that's something that would. 00:25:16.759 --> 00:25:18.819 Why did you say boba? Now I fancy some. Or maybe 00:25:18.819 --> 00:25:21.759 go get some Japanese sushi, you know. No, you're 00:25:21.759 --> 00:25:23.660 the worst. Like now I'm numb. Yeah, that's not 00:25:23.660 --> 00:25:28.160 good. But yeah, I think good food do helps. And 00:25:28.160 --> 00:25:30.589 I think I kind of created this kind of, I don't 00:25:30.589 --> 00:25:32.769 think I could like, I kind of created this lifestyle 00:25:32.769 --> 00:25:35.490 that I'm doing now that like, you know, how like 00:25:35.490 --> 00:25:37.450 probably yourself as well have a lot of coffee 00:25:37.450 --> 00:25:40.930 chats throughout the day. And now instead of 00:25:40.930 --> 00:25:43.329 asking for coffee chats, I would just ask for 00:25:43.329 --> 00:25:46.309 breakfast, lunch and dinner, because it finds 00:25:46.309 --> 00:25:49.190 it more fun to talk over something longer, right? 00:25:49.230 --> 00:25:52.309 Especially like you get good food, both of you 00:25:52.309 --> 00:25:54.509 are like happy, but at the same time, you get 00:25:54.509 --> 00:25:56.750 into much deeper topics. And I think this is 00:25:56.750 --> 00:25:59.839 something that. kind of help like me even in 00:25:59.839 --> 00:26:01.660 a bad day even though I know I'm working even 00:26:01.660 --> 00:26:03.740 though I know I'm meeting so many people because 00:26:03.740 --> 00:26:07.059 there is good food it cures my bad day even though 00:26:07.059 --> 00:26:09.720 I'm working so yeah it's a good system actually 00:26:09.720 --> 00:26:11.980 yeah just invite people over for a meal there's 00:26:11.980 --> 00:26:14.059 a saying you should never eat lunch alone right 00:26:14.059 --> 00:26:16.480 I guess it's very true I'm quite curious on one 00:26:16.480 --> 00:26:17.859 thing because obviously you come from a different 00:26:17.859 --> 00:26:20.640 cultural background even though Hong Kong was 00:26:20.640 --> 00:26:22.619 ruled by the British for many decades of all 00:26:22.619 --> 00:26:25.019 centuries what was the last book you read and 00:26:25.019 --> 00:26:28.880 most impactful book you read? I think the last 00:26:28.880 --> 00:26:32.039 most impactful book that I read was interesting 00:26:32.039 --> 00:26:35.380 question. The last book I read was still the 00:26:35.380 --> 00:26:37.619 same book that you saw last time. Really talking 00:26:37.619 --> 00:26:38.920 about, I forgot what's the name of the book. 00:26:39.039 --> 00:26:40.759 What's the name of the book to remember? Territory 00:26:40.759 --> 00:26:42.859 laws of success or something. It's by Robert 00:26:42.859 --> 00:26:45.759 Green. No, 48 laws of power. Yeah. 48 laws of 00:26:45.759 --> 00:26:48.759 power or something like this. I think it's really 00:26:48.759 --> 00:26:52.140 impactful because I think once you get to a certain 00:26:52.140 --> 00:26:55.420 point where you're growing up, you face a lot 00:26:55.420 --> 00:26:58.059 of different information and a lot of different 00:26:58.059 --> 00:27:01.200 ways you need to interact, right? Like how do 00:27:01.200 --> 00:27:02.920 you interact with people older than you? How 00:27:02.920 --> 00:27:04.859 do you interact with people at the same age as 00:27:04.859 --> 00:27:07.440 you, right? Once you go into a networking event, 00:27:07.599 --> 00:27:09.940 maybe a school networking event or private networking 00:27:09.940 --> 00:27:12.670 event. how do you successfully balance this kind 00:27:12.670 --> 00:27:14.990 of dynamic, right? Or maybe if someone is going 00:27:14.990 --> 00:27:17.809 into an internship or maybe going to work in 00:27:17.809 --> 00:27:20.049 full time, right? There's just like power dynamics 00:27:20.049 --> 00:27:22.289 that you often have to like be on the lookout, 00:27:22.349 --> 00:27:24.750 right? Like maybe it becomes intuitive to you 00:27:24.750 --> 00:27:27.069 so that you don't really need to care about it, 00:27:27.190 --> 00:27:30.069 but it's still important to acknowledge it. And 00:27:30.069 --> 00:27:32.329 sometimes when you have like wine dining time 00:27:32.329 --> 00:27:34.230 or when you're like talking with your friends 00:27:34.230 --> 00:27:36.849 or maybe just having some self like moments to 00:27:36.849 --> 00:27:38.650 think about your day or think about your week. 00:27:38.910 --> 00:27:41.349 It's good to identify this moment and see what 00:27:41.349 --> 00:27:43.710 you did well and what you did wrong. And I think 00:27:43.710 --> 00:27:46.130 these small little moments can make someone like 00:27:46.130 --> 00:27:48.630 you a lot and make the conversation goes really 00:27:48.630 --> 00:27:50.730 well. First is the opposite where they don't 00:27:50.730 --> 00:27:53.390 want to listen to you continuously and just stump 00:27:53.390 --> 00:27:55.549 throughout the whole thing. Interesting. Very 00:27:55.549 --> 00:27:57.509 good recommendations. It's actually one of my 00:27:57.509 --> 00:28:00.230 favorite books. I guess I'm curious, what does 00:28:00.230 --> 00:28:01.890 the future look like now? Because obviously you 00:28:01.890 --> 00:28:04.130 still have the company started in Hong Kong. 00:28:04.470 --> 00:28:07.609 So what are you going to do? So I think future 00:28:07.609 --> 00:28:10.690 I want to definitely build up my fashion tech 00:28:10.690 --> 00:28:14.410 business This is a startup that I've been thinking 00:28:14.410 --> 00:28:16.369 about it for a while already, but actually working 00:28:16.369 --> 00:28:18.190 on it for two three months So hopefully this 00:28:18.190 --> 00:28:20.349 could get me somewhere. It's called Styleek by 00:28:20.349 --> 00:28:23.230 the way, so it's an interesting company Is it 00:28:23.230 --> 00:28:25.470 live already? Can we see the website? Oh, it's 00:28:25.470 --> 00:28:27.829 not live. It's probably it will probably be live 00:28:27.829 --> 00:28:30.730 in like seven eight months time maybe there will 00:28:30.730 --> 00:28:34.380 be some like snippets demos before that but Official 00:28:34.380 --> 00:28:36.359 launch definitely won't be that early. But I 00:28:36.359 --> 00:28:38.819 think for me, like not only doing this, but also 00:28:38.819 --> 00:28:40.859 creating more and more communities. Right. I 00:28:40.859 --> 00:28:43.440 remember I spoke in Shanghai last year talking 00:28:43.440 --> 00:28:46.480 about how can we build an entrepreneurial ecosystem, 00:28:46.799 --> 00:28:49.960 speaking at LSE about the same similar topic, 00:28:50.240 --> 00:28:52.660 but in rather than like multinational really 00:28:52.660 --> 00:28:55.279 focusing on the UK. I think a lot of people are 00:28:55.279 --> 00:28:57.680 pretty aware of this already. Right. Being in 00:28:57.680 --> 00:29:00.079 London, we're not like Silicon Valley. We're 00:29:00.079 --> 00:29:02.619 not like U S there is a different mindset. There's 00:29:02.619 --> 00:29:05.849 a different. funding of capital but does it mean 00:29:05.849 --> 00:29:09.549 that in UK or in London in particular this like 00:29:09.549 --> 00:29:12.329 entrepreneurial like stuff is really not a good 00:29:12.440 --> 00:29:14.940 place, I wouldn't say that because there's a 00:29:14.940 --> 00:29:17.740 lot of like hidden projects or a lot of stuff 00:29:17.740 --> 00:29:20.559 that is within UK that are getting pumped out 00:29:20.559 --> 00:29:23.180 every day, but it's not getting utilized completely, 00:29:23.180 --> 00:29:25.900 right? For example, a very good explanation. 00:29:26.339 --> 00:29:29.700 Imperial college have a lot of good projects. 00:29:29.960 --> 00:29:32.279 They have world -class lab. They have students 00:29:32.279 --> 00:29:35.619 pumping out research and product every other 00:29:35.619 --> 00:29:38.200 day within different labs that they have. But 00:29:38.200 --> 00:29:40.559 they're not people that are really business -minded 00:29:40.559 --> 00:29:42.759 driven, right? And sometimes what would happen 00:29:42.759 --> 00:29:45.319 is that some projects over there would get lost 00:29:45.319 --> 00:29:49.319 in an academic paper and that's it. But if that 00:29:49.319 --> 00:29:52.420 got commercialized, it could be multi -million, 00:29:52.720 --> 00:29:55.339 tens of millions, hundred million idea, but no 00:29:55.339 --> 00:29:58.339 one actually has this like framework to actually 00:29:58.339 --> 00:30:00.619 pair different people together, right? The same 00:30:00.619 --> 00:30:02.680 things happen to Cambridge, same things happen 00:30:02.680 --> 00:30:07.319 to Oxford, same thing happened to UCL. Even LSE 00:30:07.319 --> 00:30:10.640 as well and KCO as well. So building this entrepreneurial 00:30:10.640 --> 00:30:13.359 framework, building this ecosystem, not only 00:30:13.359 --> 00:30:15.940 do you have pairing, not only do you have adequate 00:30:15.940 --> 00:30:18.299 funding, but you're also looking at like the 00:30:18.299 --> 00:30:20.839 whole global scenario, right? If there is injection 00:30:20.839 --> 00:30:23.599 of capital from maybe like rich family offices 00:30:23.599 --> 00:30:26.259 in Hong Kong and Singapore, will they change 00:30:26.259 --> 00:30:28.859 mindset and started investing in EU or maybe 00:30:28.859 --> 00:30:31.900 UK, like entrepreneurial projects or maybe like 00:30:31.900 --> 00:30:34.059 startup projects. You see this kind of trends 00:30:34.059 --> 00:30:36.859 might also change how a lot of this stuff. It's 00:30:36.859 --> 00:30:39.319 happening in the UK. So I think like building 00:30:39.319 --> 00:30:41.299 this entrepreneurial ecosystem is very important. 00:30:41.460 --> 00:30:43.940 It's not something that one company can do or 00:30:43.940 --> 00:30:45.859 multiple people can do, but it's something that 00:30:45.859 --> 00:30:49.460 like it's a collective of people can do. I think 00:30:49.460 --> 00:30:52.759 this is what is very important over time. Well, 00:30:52.819 --> 00:30:55.519 now when we continue to talk to really like, 00:30:55.519 --> 00:30:57.480 like something that I kind of want to build on 00:30:57.480 --> 00:30:59.839 the side or help on the side, if I could definitely, 00:30:59.839 --> 00:31:02.829 um, alongside whatever I'm doing now. Interesting. 00:31:03.369 --> 00:31:05.769 And did you ever raise any money for your business? 00:31:06.509 --> 00:31:08.450 No. For my first business, it was fully bootstrap. 00:31:09.269 --> 00:31:11.069 OK. So that's actually quite impressive because 00:31:11.069 --> 00:31:12.630 not only was it bootstrap, but you actually managed 00:31:12.630 --> 00:31:16.349 to get it quite successful. So well done. Hey, 00:31:16.450 --> 00:31:19.789 cheers. Cyrus, if people want to reach out to 00:31:19.789 --> 00:31:22.700 you, what's the best way of doing so? The best 00:31:22.700 --> 00:31:24.200 way, I think, would be through LinkedIn. You 00:31:24.200 --> 00:31:27.039 can find me at Cyrus Wong, so you'll be able 00:31:27.039 --> 00:31:29.740 to find me. Or if you want to see some of my 00:31:29.740 --> 00:31:32.579 past projects or some of the past stuff, you 00:31:32.579 --> 00:31:35.319 can go to my Instagram, which is Cyrus underscore 00:31:35.319 --> 00:31:38.599 Momo. It's my nickname for 12 years, I think, 00:31:38.619 --> 00:31:39.980 six years, seven years, something like that. 00:31:40.380 --> 00:31:42.539 So do find me. Yep. Okay. All right. Sounds good. 00:31:43.039 --> 00:31:44.240 Cyrus, thank you so much for your time. It's 00:31:44.240 --> 00:31:46.420 been an absolute pleasure having you here. Thank 00:31:46.420 --> 00:31:48.779 you, Ricardo. Thank you for having me. The podcast 00:31:48.779 --> 00:31:51.789 is also sponsored by Notion .so. Notion is offering 00:31:51.789 --> 00:31:54.369 six months for free for new users. Make sure 00:31:54.369 --> 00:31:56.430 you check out our website, the startupevents 00:31:56.430 --> 00:31:59.089 .co .uk to read in the software. 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