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Hi, and welcome to another episode of the Innovation
Conversation. Today we are joined by Chet Irani.
Chet, welcome to the podcast. Thank you. Thank
you for having me, man. Thank you so much. Chet,
would you like to introduce yourself to the audience,
please? Yeah, no worries. Okay, so obviously,
everybody just said I'm Chet Hirani. I'm an executive
performance coach, TEDx speaker, and the founder
of Not Your Ordinary Coach, which is a performance
coach company. And the missions there is to straight
talking, shaping senior management into being
nothing but leaders, and helping businesses to
sort of outperform and also grow from failure
to achieving 10x results, all from a performance
related aspect of things. So this is actually
quite quite key because if all the sorbs I talked
to there's always an evolution of the person
leading the company, right? They become some
I guess when they start there's someone winning
with an idea and then transforming to a leader
They need to lead people either to believe into
into that idea But also, you know building the
teams and stuff around them So what tips and
advice can even I'm sure you have a lot of tips
and advice to give someone like just starting
out But let's say young founder just started
his own company what tips and advice would you
give him? You know the ultimate tip and advice
and it might sound sort of very cliche when it
comes to this right is the first thing's first
is to build a foundation okay and then people
then ask what is the foundation and I kind of
like give a give the analogy of a foundation
in terms of just imagine you're sort of building
a house or something like that right you need
to basically have a solid steady foundation because
if you don't what's going to appear cracks will
appear it gets wider, it's bigger, you fall through
them and it's hard to sort of get back out of
them as well. But we all know in foundations
as well, cracks do appear. It's not as if you're
going to have a solid foundation where it's just
going to be completely nice and smooth in that
respect. But when those do appear, it's how to
be in control of those in order to sort of mend
them and then continue building. The main aspect
of things when I talk about the foundation in
anything, especially for entrepreneurs, is that
we're all entrepreneurs in some shape or form.
We're all risk takers. You're not an entrepreneur
if you don't take risks, especially in the startup
world as well. But when I talk about the foundation,
the main foundation is your health, believe it
or not. It's nothing even to do with the business.
Okay, because you need to be around first. You
need to be make sure that you are at your optimal
levels at a continuous basis. You need to be
able to be in control of yourself as well as
everything else that's going around you in order
for you to sort of get closer to that vision
of your own success as well. So it's really,
really important. And I say that and then people
think that, oh, that's easier said than done.
But if you kind of put your put yourself first,
as well as your ideas of your startup companies,
how on earth is anything going to actually be,
how on earth is anything going to actually work
if you're not present? Yeah. So you need to be
continuously present through everything. Yes,
there's going to be highs and lows, but when
they are highs and lows, we want to make sure
that we're in control of it as much as we possibly
can in order to continue. where we want to, where
our vision is because startups, entrepreneurs,
we're all visionaries in that respect. Okay.
And we've all got this goal that we want to kind
of effectively hit. But rather than looking into
that future distance and running too far ahead
to say, okay, I want to hit that sort of goal
and get to that goal. You've got to also understand
everything else that needs to be done in order
to achieve it. What small steps do I need to
take? And too often people don't actually think
about those things. And again, in the startup
world as well. One of the major factors is of
obviously investment. We want to basically look
for investors get that capital rent coming in
But when that does come in you see too many zeros
and get excited because you've never seen that
much money before and How you use those how you
utilize all of those is an important thing Which
then leads me on to my next piece of advice on
that is the two things that startups should actually
focus on initially and We've all seen some of
the most successful start successful startups
and now unicorn companies in the world right
okay the two most important things is your marketing.
and investing in a coach. Those are the two things.
And we've spoken about that before as well. And
those are the two things that I always recommend.
And I say to startups, whenever they ask me,
what are the things that you'd recommend or suggest
that we do in order for us to move forward? It's
like, yeah, one is you've got to seek your investment.
That's a continuous process. But the other thing
that you need to do for yourself is how are you
going to position yourself? How are you going
to market yourself? Invest in those sort of areas.
But then if you're not sure about all of those
areas, invest in the right type of coach to help
you. get to those sort of levels. That's fundamentally
what I would always say to everyone. And how,
you know, how do you deal with the guilt and
the guilt? What I mean by this is you're building
something and you know, the more hours you put
into it, the better the outcome or possibly the
better the outcome is going to be. But how do
you deal with the guilt of saying, you know what,
I need to take a break. I need to actually focus
on myself, on my health. I need to focus on getting
my energy levels back to where they should be
instead of running to zero every single day.
How do you deal with that? Because there's an
internal dialogue, right? That's a great question.
Again, the one thing that I like doing in the
way I operate with my sort of coaching world
is you got to make things as simple as possible.
Okay. The more you make things, the more you
make things harder for yourself, it just becomes
harder to do anything else, right? You complicate
matters. Everything just becomes complicated.
Why the hell do people do that to themselves?
That's one of the big things. But the reason
why they do that to themselves is because they
don't know how to, again, be in control of those
situations. To answer your question from the
guilt perspective is now, you've got to just
think, right? It's the case of, I need to be
present, I need to be here continuously. Why
on earth does it take for someone to say, oh,
You've been diagnosed with a life -threatening
disease or something like that in order for you
then to take action about yourself Because whenever
we get told or whenever I mean I've been in situations
where I known people Who have been diagnosed
with things and then they've then decided right
and now I need to live life now I need to do
something about my health and do all those sort
of things Why does it take us to get to that
stage when we could have just done everything
before I need to never ever? be given that sort
of diagnosis right and the classic ones i'm not
talking about the cancers of the world or anything
i'm talking about things like high blood pressure
high cholesterol all these sort of things because
these are common things in human beings and when
you burn out all of those things elevate as well
okay because we're not looking after so we're
not eating right we're not sleeping right we're
not doing anything but why on earth do we have
to get to that stage then to age ourselves like
five to ten years ahead of what we constantly
are Take control of it focus on those and that's
when I say to answer the third question about
the guilt side of things It's you got to take
a step back. Everything will work out It's just
got to take a step back more often than not and
two more more times than you realize You need
to actually take more steps back just to see
it from a different place Yes, I know sometimes
and I am completely guilty of this too I used
to be reactive in everything I did when I started
all these ideas just go flow through your head
Okay, we know that okay, when you stop, I mean,
your mind's traveling 101 miles or 200 miles
an hour. Okay, but you end up doing something
and then something else pops up, you stop doing
that. And then you do this just happens. Okay.
And then the next minute, you know, is that you
spent about eight hours and you've actually not
achieved anything. Yeah. Right. But then taking
a step back and then making yourself realize,
okay, these ideas are gonna pop up. great thing
make a note of them jot them down put them to
the side for now take a step back and think is
this a priority for me to do now or was what
i was doing a priority recalibrate yourself that's
all i'm talking about when we're taking step
backs i'm not taking saying take a nap or anything
like that if you need to you need to take a nap
but when i was doing all of those sort of things
i kept i kept i kept like thing i was for example
i write sort of like lots of content and things
like that for my business just for my to gain
generate visibility I do all of these sort of
things and all of a sudden an idea pops up, okay,
that I need to now create an email newsletter
to send out to my subscribers. And I'm like,
well, hold on a minute, why did I just complete
that and then do this? Because that's not gonna,
nothing's gonna change, okay? If one thing's
done maybe an hour later or maybe 24 hours later.
If it's detrimental to a fact that is contractual,
there's a monetary transaction happening, then
there's a different conversation we need to have
based on the fact that then why were you doing
the content side of things? Why weren't you doing
what mattered to make sure that your business
elevates and exceeds and gets more money coming
in? All these sort of things play a huge part
in the fact that when we're starting up, we all
go through it. people and it's not another one
of the reasons why they say and that statistics
of there is that I can't remember the statistic
now is that most startups fail and The reason
but my question is that have they actually failed?
Okay, what can you learn? What can you take out
of that that didn't go go so well? So rather
than calling it failure find something positive
out of it. What did you learn? So next time I'm
not going to do that And if you're an entrepreneur
and you're a startup, you're not just going to
sit there, you're going to find something else
to do. Because they're the reason why you took
that risk in the first place. So why not continue
taking that risk? And how do you balance your
ego in all these things? Because there's always
a finding that balance between balancing your
ego, being lazy, but also being productive. I
for one sometimes struggle with that, which is,
you know what, I'm going to take a break, but
then my ego says, oh, you can afford this. But
then my guild, I guess, says you can't, so you
need to continue working. How do you balance
that ego and how do you know that you've struck
the right chord? Yeah, so when people talk about
ego, there's two different elements to ego, okay?
There's one where you ego and you think you know
it all, and there's one where ego is like, well,
you're being hard on yourself. Two different
aspects of it. Now, the one that we're talking
about being hard on yourself for now is the fact
that this is where the right people, network,
surroundings help you. I didn't have anything
when I first started this is why I now preach
to people to say get the right mentors get the
right coaches in place to help you do all of
these sort of things you don't have to spend
thousands of pounds to get all of these there
are people out there willing to give you this
advice for nothing but when you're able to sort
of then invest in it then it's going to take
you to the next level that's what the investment
is but in order to sort of from from an ego perspective
and that is surrounding yourself with the right
people is the key here now when I say I didn't
have anyone I basically had my wife right she's
one person that's always sort of been there to
say right she keeps me in check now I'm very
very fortunate in that respect okay but you are
there's definitely going to be someone in your
life that's going to be able to do that for you
right and that's that's up to you whether you're
going to reach out to them or not okay it all
starts with you everything else when we're talking
about your ego or when you're saying I can't
do this I can't do that you you end up what you'll
end up doing is you'll end up blaming others
for your own mistakes as well okay but the reminder
of it is everything that you do everything that
doesn't work out there's only one person to blame
there's only one person at fault and it's always
going to be you okay because there's something
that you've probably not done i'm thinking about
about one thing which is how do you finally start
believing in yourself and having confidence in
yourself. Cause when you're launching a business,
it's incredibly hard, right? You have an idea,
you kind of do a little bit of baby steps around
it and then something happens. How do you finally
believe in yourself to the point you say, no,
I can do this. I'm going to keep on pushing until
I achieve what I set out to achieve. Again, that,
I love those sort of questions. You're always
going to doubt yourself. It's okay to doubt yourself.
Yeah. Okay. But it's also reminding yourself
of what you've actually achieved. And when you
do all those sort of things of what you've actually
achieved taking a step back again what I was
saying right and then looking at what you've
actually achieved that is going to build your
confidence that all of those sort of things going
to build even till this day myself I always say
to me I've got nothing to show for it I say that
because I want more everybody wants more it depends
how driven you are in that respect okay so when
I say I've not achieved anything and I've got
nothing to show for it I want more I get reminded
by the people around me to say, well, look at
what you've just achieved. Look at everything
that you've been doing. We need reassurance.
It's human nature to continuously get that reassurance.
And I'm not talking about constantly getting
a pat on the back, because those sort of things,
pats on the back. No, no, no, because otherwise
you're not going to move forward. You're going
to be asking, can you please say that I'm great,
I'm good constantly to help me move forward?
No, that's not how I'm operating here. I'm saying
reassurance about reminding you about what you've
done, what you're doing, what's working, what's
not working to help you build confidence. Where
were you from the day you started to what you're
doing now, for example, like the smallest little
things. When people don't even know how to kind
of like write a newsletter or write a piece of
content or something like that, right? You all
have to start somewhere. I know when you continue
doing that we see things gonna get better. Okay
driving a car you never know how to drive a car
when you're younger riding a bike all those sort
of things the more you do things is gonna build
your confidence but it's reminding yourself of
how you do it but our brains the way we operate
we we neglect ourselves far too often and far
too much. which is one of the reasons why it's
important to be reminded and have that reassurance.
But the other side of things as well in this
is that when we're doing things, especially as
startups and entrepreneurs, right, when you're
doing things, never, never, never expect anything
in return. OK, because when that return comes,
when you least expect it or and that's the reward
that you've worked your arse off to get to that
point. Right. OK, that's the best feeling ever.
Yeah, and I give you an example like and this
is the vision that we basically put ourselves
forward to right and where we think I didn't
know that I was gonna so My businesses have been
pretty well structured in terms of just of late
that I've now been able to sort of break into
the Middle East market Now for one whole year.
I kept saying to myself that I'm gonna break
into this market I need to work. I need to do
all of these sort of things. Okay, and then the
tail end of last year I was away in the Middle
East for a whole month, right? And I was delivering
work, pieces of work to like this major bank
over there. And it got me to take that moment
to step back. And even while I was speaking to
the attendees to say, you know what, there's
a reason why I'm here is because I said that
I'm going to be here. Again, when you remind
yourselves those are things, can you imagine
the confidence that basically comes? I didn't
need nobody to tell me that, okay? It's when
you start believing in yourself. far more and
again when i say these things about believing
in yourself we hear it all this time all the
time okay it is important but it's also important
as startups and entrepreneurs is the fact that
yeah you believe in yourself but you know what
there's always more there's more hence why being
a performance coach is getting the best out of
people is getting the best out of yourself it's
such an important factor So do you think people
should actually take control of their own narrative?
Because I find that a lot of people, actually
a good example of this is if you read any success
story, let's say on Daily Mail, always start
with the lowest paid position that person ever
had. former lifeguard, former, I don't know,
house cleaner is now a millionaire. And I don't
know why they have to say that they started off
in that place because that kind of, I guess,
takes them down a notch, if that makes sense.
But when we're telling our own story, we never
say, oh, I started as a house cleaner. We always
say, you know, I'm a successful entrepreneur
because of A, B and C. So is that a key element
here, which is taking control of your own narrative,
writing your own story and telling people that
story. Yeah. Taking control of your narrative.
Be humble about those sort of things. Be open.
Share it. Okay, we often like you said, how many
times do we see people success stories continuously?
Yeah, right But nobody's actually nobody actually
really tells us how they got there what they
did. That's those are the that's what we want
to know Yeah, so teach us that tell us what did
you what? What pain did you have to go through
in order for you to be where you are? And that's
an important thing when we say pain is like a
weakness. It's not a weakness It's a strength
right to basically say right I've gone through
this I've been able to elevate myself. I've been
able to take things to the next level. But this
is all done through the hard work of me, the
people around me, what I've learned, what I've
the challenges, the obstacles that I've basically
gone through. All of these sort of things. I
want to know all of these sort of things for
them. Me to look up to you and say, look, I don't
want to emulate you, but I want to take some
inspiration from you, because I know that if
that's the case, I'm going to get this. And I
know it's hard. It's hard. The life of an entrepreneur
and a startup is damn hard. yeah and that's the
truth okay but the thing is is we always see
oh we've got we've got all these great people
out there in the world that have done sort of
um fantastic work and their businesses are thriving
all these sort of things are happening some of
them are very fortunate that they come from backgrounds
where they've got heavily funded people in there
and people have invested in them they're very
fortunate but most of the people aren't that
fortunate they've got to work they've got a graph
to actually get to these places so there's a
different level of things here okay but the fundamental
thing of it all is that they've all taken care
of themselves somebody's helped them take care
of the foundation in order for all of this to
sort of develop on, because they wouldn't have
been able to do it. We look at, I mean, the first
companies that keep coming to my mind when I'm
talking about this is like the Ubers, the Facebooks,
the Amazons, the Googles. They're all case studies
now, yeah, because they're doing fantastic. But
there are companies out there that are going
to reach to that level. There's going to be another
cycle where there's going to be a handful of
companies that are going to reach to that status.
and something and and but they're working at
the moment nobody needs to know who they are
or anything right now because they're going to
go through different changes they may have started
up with one name of the company and end up being
another name after like 10 iteratives or something
like that right okay but that will happen but
when that happens we all who are Building and
wanting to get to those sort of stages or on
that sort of same journey Should I say we all
want to understand and know is that okay? What
is it taken? What have you done? And that's one
of the reasons I tell people especially like
people who want to start a business or anything
I said, it's great. I I would Force everyone
to start something of their own. Okay, I would
definitely would force that for some people It's
not for some people. It's it's a good thing,
right? Some people like to go into work and just
focus on those Good on you, it's not an issue,
there's nothing wrong with you there. But the
people that want to do it, it's the case of,
right, I'm asked, you're coming up to me now
and say you really want to start something of
your own. Even before they've started, I have
to question them to say, do you really, really
want to do this? What is it that you really want
to do? Why do you want to do all the things?
And ask questions that they've not been asked.
And I'm not talking about asking your parents
or asking family members because they're gonna
give you different answers, right? You ask your
parents, if I ask my parents right when I start
to mind they'll be like, oh why do you want to
do something like that? Why don't you invest
your money here? Why don't you do this? That's
the standard thing because the reason why they're
saying that because they're looking out for me.
they don't want you to risk and they don't want
you to suffer because they see that journey as
suffering and they want you to take the safe
path not the the reason yeah exactly so that's
what that's that's what your that's what your
close friends and family are gonna say or you're
gonna get a few other friends and family you're
gonna look turn down and you look at you think
really you're not gonna make this why are you
doing this i get this still daily yeah even now
10 to 15 years on i still get it right but then
I'm thinking well and one thing I always say
to them and I and I stay hand to heart I say
I mean but one day yeah Chet will be famous and
you're going to remember this I say it all the
time Okay, because that's the belief that I have
and if I've got that belief, then everybody else
should have that belief that's coming on this
whole journey as well. Why shouldn't they? You
got to see it before it's happening or before
it actually becomes a reality. I feel that every
entrepreneur is a bit like an architect in the
sense that they designed the place, they think
how it's going to look like and they need to
put that to paper and then from that paper on
it becomes reality. But unless you have the vision
to envision it in the first place, it's never
going to happen, is it? Exactly. And it's really
hard to do that as well because you're gonna
go okay should i build a wall or this side of
the business here should i put the roof one way
or the other way so there's you know there's
a bit of a learning curve there but it's just
it's it's your own i guess i'm not gonna say
destiny but it's who you are as an individual
isn't it yes some people are built to build i
guess and they want to do more and more stuff
yeah it's interesting when you say that because
we all kind of like follow or when I say we all
follow, there's almost like this unwritten rule
that's there, right? You've got to do this, you've
got to do this, you've got to do this in life,
okay? Right? But there are a certain handful
of people, and I would probably call them like
the top percent, 1 % or something, but like,
you know what, no, I'm going to take a different
path to this. I'm not going to do what I've been
socially told to do. I'm going to take a different,
and those are the people that stand out. Those
are the people that know that there's more. to
them and there's more for them to give in different
ways right and it's not also not difficult to
actually get into that sort of that percentage
either it's just being educated and told and
but then you've got to feel it want it within
yourself too and then right okay okay i'm now
hearing that this is the way you need to operate.
No, you operate the way you got to feel that
you need to operate as well. Something, something
happens that, you know, I find that actually
happened quite a few times in my life, which
is you're going down a certain path and you know
for a fact that's not the path you want to be
in, right? So you just get frustrated or get
angry. You want to move away from that path.
But, you know, you still need to be there for
the time being. Right. And how do you strike
the balance of I'm getting some feedback, I'm
learning something here, but at the same time,
I'm still not where I want to be. And how do
you, I guess, pull yourself back from that low
moment onwards to something else because it's
really hard to have everyone saying this is not
for you or you're doing something wrong you feel
a bit like a loser but you know you have more
to it so how do you balance that out? You know
so I'm currently I'm in a process of first drafting
my book and there's a chapter in that which says
which talks about the art of self -assessment
and self -awareness yeah and that's where it
all sort of boils down to. okay because if you
don't if you're not able to self assess yourself
you're not able to be aware of yourself either
okay and this is a huge huge learning thing for
everyone basically should be doing rather than
being told that this is what you need to be doing
so um i'll give you an example here as well that
i um a few years ago i decided and i had this
bright idea that i want to create a mastermind
yeah my coaching business was going through I
was like I'm going to create a mastermind I'm
going to charge premium prices and everything
was just looking so good so it was so easy to
sort of like build and develop I did all the
research and everything like that okay so that
was another path that was another sort of project
that I was working on which was incomplete which
was completely separate to my main business now
my main business was working well so I kind of
then focused on another area And while I was
doing all those sort of areas, my main business
started to become neglected because I wasn't
actually focusing on that part. And then I didn't
even realize that there was a decline in sort
of investments coming in or clients coming in
and all these sort of things because focused
on this mastermind and then realizing, hold on
a minute, there's nothing coming in here. I'm
getting things which doesn't even pay the bills
in that respect. But I was so blindsided. Into
doing all of those and that's when I realized
that I needed to start asking myself questions
again When I started asking myself questions
and learning about myself more assessing my situations
of where I am Not in terms of where I am from
from a bank balance perspective, but where I
am from my company perspective Okay, which directions
do I need to go in and then the question was
that hey? I need to stop this and I was working
with somebody on it I ended up finding that I
was putting far more effort and work into this
than the other person was because I was the more
of the technical aspect of things. OK, but I
was thinking, well, there's no monetary, there's
nothing coming through. I'm not I'm not even
that the vision. All of these things were like
being I was sharing all the content to. build
people up to bring them in and no one was interested
in it which is one thing that I realized again
this is something again coming into sort of the
business aspect of things when you have something
that you think you you generally think that is
the best idea on the planet it's the best idea
on the planet for you but it might not necessarily
be the best idea on the planet for people out
there and when they and if it's not then you
need to reassess yourself as well it's something
that i've learned too right is that you need
to reassess it nobody wants this so then why
are you bothered why you why you why do you keep
on at this okay now there's a point where people
can argue there's that but what about the one
you talk about the word consistency to keep on
pushing keep on going but there's still assessments
required within those okay because you need to
then think are you actually solving somebody's
problem and if you're not solving someone's problem
and you're just solving a problem for yourself
you know that's not going to work for anybody
else, right? So this is actually quite interesting
because there's, I'm thinking about two, first
of all, something that Henry Ford said and something
that I read in the book. So Matthew McConaughey,
the actor wrote a book called Green Light. I
don't know if you've read it yet, but he goes
about how life sometimes gives you some green
lights, which is like, go, go, go, you're in
the right direction. Sometimes it's the yellow
light, which means, you know what, it's not really
the right path. And then you have a red one,
which just says, stop, move, you're completely
on the wrong direction here. But then at the
same time, I'm thinking, about Henry Ford who
once said if I asked people what they wanted
they would say they want more horses instead
of a car. So how do you strike that balance between
is this a red light or am I building a car instead
of a better carriage? So how do you manage that
because that's quite hard. It is a hard one and
I came across something just quite recently on
that is that look when you are trying to find
something or do something for people you need
to go out and speak to people first of all. right?
You need to go and ask them what do they want
and if you ask them what they want you've got
an idea okay then you need to ask but that's
not necessarily what everybody wants so when
you've got a few selections of people what they
want you've got a few ideas here but then you
need to then ask these other questions okay which
is almost like a sales technique questions right
you need to basically get as many yeses as you
possibly can like get about three yeses okay
and when you get to the fourth and fifth yes
you know that that's exactly what they want and
they're going to purchase it it's the type of
question you ask them right so let's say for
example you're in a you're in a specific country
or something and you say oh you're in this country
like let's take you're in the uk for example
you're in the uk they'll say yes okay all right
and then let's say um what uh where you ask them
like what have you done in a specific part of
the UK they'll tell you and they'll say did you
enjoy it or what didn't you do and all that they'll
say yes again and you keep on getting the essays
and a psychological aspect of things it doesn't
have to do anything to do with your product Okay,
but as soon as you get the yeses, yes, yeses,
you can then ask them this question. It's like,
oh, so what about this? Would you be considered,
would you consider this based on everything else?
People are basically, you've the information
that you got from other people. Chances are they'll
say yes. If they say maybe it's easier to turn
that into a yes as well, because they haven't
said no straight away. So there's a lot of psychology
behind the way the mind works and how you can
actually, again, look, it is manipulation, not
going to lie, but it's how you're doing it the
right way. I always heard that the quality of
the the questions you ask determines the quality
of your life yeah in the sense that if you ask
keep on asking the wrong questions you keep on
getting the bad results that you don't want in
your life right exactly but you know the bad
questions are generally the bad the bad questions
generally are questions which have got nothing
to do with the person the questions that you
want to ask is about the person you're gonna
make everything about them okay and when you
make everything about them you are building a
relationship they're beginning to like you because
they were like hey this person is actually interested
in me you're asking them questions that people
probably have not asked them on a regular basis
okay and when you do that you're building all
of these sort of things with them it doesn't
have to turn into a investment or a sale or anything
like that you've built a relationship so then
now you're on the top of their list you're on
their mind straight away and when they and when
the time comes for something they will reach
out to you in that and this is where again we
all know the term of planting seeds comes in
right that is planting seeds to the optimum point
making it about the individuals finding something
in common with the individual it can be anything
it can be you like the same color it could be
you have you have a child or something like that
but when you have when you like for example when
you say you have a child and this guy or so do
I then you can say so how old is yours you never
say mine is this you say so how old is yours
then you can gauge this okay if your child is
five years old mine is 10 years old you can then
relate more to them as well to say oh I remember
I remember how are things that as a five -year
-old it could be quite tough never never refer
to yours always make it about them still Good
technique. I want to ask you, I meet a lot of
entrepreneurs going to some really dark moments,
right? What would you tell someone going to a
dark moment when they're building their business?
What's that one thing you'd say, obviously there's
multiple things you could say, but what's the
one thing you'd say, you know what, it's going
to get better? What would that be? Okay, the
one thing that I would say with those sort of
things, and I say it quite often, is that nothing
is always, nothing is negative. Okay, you can
always find a positive in a negative. yeah so
if they're going through a dark moment it's like
so what what can you take away from all this?
What good's happened? Okay, and that's basically
what we want to do. We want to train the brain
to rather than focusing on that negative emotion
It's to start thinking about the good side of
things that's been happening Which then will
counteract all the negative sides and that's
how that's how I always work with people again.
It's our Referring back to our mind and is a
great book that basically I would recommend to
people it's called the laws of human nature the
case by Robert Green These books, right, and
that book says the similar sort of things, okay,
but then always think about, if I'm constantly
thinking negative, then damn, all the negative
shit's gonna keep coming to me. What can I change?
And yes, it is about the way you transmit your
energy, your frequency, all these sort of things.
I'm a big believer in all those sort of things,
but we're all gonna, I go through it. I go through
dark moments, but I go through less dark moments
than I went through before. Okay. And it's how
I handle it. There's moments when I have my dark
moments, Ricardo, I will literally say, okay,
right. I'm going to put down tools and I'm just
going to basically sit and watch Netflix shows
for a little while. Yeah, that works for most
people actually. Right. And there's nothing wrong
with that because when they say you're not being
productive, you are actually being productive
to a certain level, not high productivity levels,
but you're definitely not doing nothing. you're
still being productive in some way even when
you're watching a show or something like that
your brain is still thinking about something
else too it is right so then that's a good thing
for you so what did you learn from it's like
okay i learned to stay calm i learned to basically
step away from things i learned that although
sorry excuse my french here that shit's hitting
the fan i'm in a dark moment currently at the
moment it's like well i don't want to sit here
all this time because i'm not going to get nowhere
no one's going to freaking help me I need to
help myself. That's ultimately the thing, isn't
it? You need to help yourself. Yeah. There's
not going to be a calvary coming in. There's
no, you know, the higher power is not going to
come in and help you. You need to help yourself.
And then things start happening. But you do the
first step. and maybe the second and when the
third maybe 100 steps all by yourself, and then
something else happens, right? Yeah, it's, it's
now focusing on books, you've recommended a book
that I literally have standing on top of my desk
right now. And I'm also curious, you also recommend
another book, which I'm almost finished. What's
it called? The OKR ones? Measure What Matters?
Yes, measure what matters. Yes. Yeah, brilliant
book. Actually told me a lot about the story
of Silicon Valley, how Google got started, but
also how they managed to get to where they are
right now. What other books have inspired you
along your journey? What other books? Gosh, I've
got so many books. So one book that really has
inspired me is one called Extreme Leadership.
And I'm sure everyone knows about Extreme Leadership.
It's by Jekyll Wilkes. Yes. that I mean the reason
why that's really helped me and also I will link
that to David Goggins can't hurt me right and
the reason why that's helped me in that way because
my mindset I wouldn't say my mindset is like
them but I would love for my mindset to be like
them but I don't think I'm far off having that
sort of mindset because I basically got my mindset
through my I've got the the I've basically got
the no -bullshit attitude from my mum and I got
the people attitude from my dad right so it's
the perfect match in that respect the way I see
it okay in terms of books in that respect yeah
it's extreme leadership that's a great book I
mean obviously it's all about the navy seals
but then how they basically use everything they
learn from the navy seals perspective into real
world perspective from a leadership aspect of
things yeah so and again going back to the whole
thing of like At the end of the day, if you are
leading somebody in any way, anything that goes
wrong, you are accountable for it. It's your
fault. It's not your team's fault. In that respect.
There's that same thing with David Goggins, can't
hurt me. That's just been one that is a constant
sort of reminder about what you can do. Very
powerful book and very powerful character as
well. Absolutely. yeah yeah i mean honestly it's
like if you if you want to basically have somebody
who's associated superman or something like that
he's probably high up there right in that respect
um a few other books that i always get other
people to sort of um look at and go through that
one of the first books i would say is the compound
effect okay so the compound effect is by darren
hardy and Obstacle is the Way is another book
which is by Ryan Holiday. Those are some of the
books there but then after understanding those
because those are things which are very those
two books especially are quite sort of personal
development type books right a lot of the things
that when you read that book you're thinking
well I know this already okay but then when you
read it and when you question yourself why you
know this already is that so why do you why are
you continuously reading it then right? okay
you got to question yourself with that respect
i've had so many people say that to me it's like
oh i know this already i went did you finish
the book just like yeah i mean so why did you
finish the book then yeah they have not got an
answer to it okay or they were like oh i just
felt like finishing a book i said but clearly
you took something away even if it's just one
paragraph you took away from that book you've
taken something yeah um And then you'd kind of
work towards other books like Simon Sinek is
a huge, huge fan of Simon Sinek. Start with Why
is a really, really good book because that does
teach you a lot about you and businesses as well.
There's another book I've got in the back here
is called Primal Leadership as well. I can't
remember who it's from. There's a couple there.
Relentless as well is a great book. Relentless
by Tim Grover. So that was Tim Grover and Relentless.
So Tim Grover is a huge fan of his as well. He
was Michael Jordan's coach and then became Kobe
Bryant's coach. So he would never become Kobe
Bryant's coach if he was still Michael Jordan's
coach. Michael Jordan basically paid him to not
coach anybody else, but just him. Interesting.
Yeah. Yeah, he's quite a career, hasn't he? So
yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, so yeah, so Relentless
is a great book and Tim Grover has got another
book out as well. Oh, gosh, I can't remember
the name of that one. It's here somewhere. But
it's the second book of Tim Grover's. But those
there doesn't I mean, I've got a list of books
that I can go through another book, which is
great for in terms of vision side of things.
And it's also a Netflix show as well. And I would
suggest this recommend is to everyone is simply
called The Secret. Yeah, the secret but that's
that's quite old isn't it's like almost 30 years
now. Yeah, three years old. Yeah, it's very very
old I There's a Netflix show on that one. Yep,
and I always basically what I tend to do and
I think this is probably about a few years back
and you're probably going to think I'm crazy
when I when I say I did this I basically watched
that and I made sure that I watched that at least
three to four times a week. Makes sense. Yeah
I watched it three to four times a week sat there
and I just watched it just to make sure that
everything was I was retraining programming myself
in terms of my thoughts my visions all these
sort of things they've got then I got the book
and I was like okay the book is great but I still
like the show okay and it was really important
then I got the audible and then I just listened
to the audible at least once a month. Even till
now, just to remind myself of things. So that's
like my go -to sort of reminder of certain things.
And that's down to the way I believe and what
I do. I mean, I then do the same thing with my
clients. It's just the same thing. So it's like,
if it works for me, why shouldn't it work for
somebody else? Don't you think it was, obviously
not anymore, but don't you think it was absolutely
petrifying? when you first started to listen
to your inner voice and to your inner desires
and to what do you actually want and then making
the first step to making that that reality because
that is that's a scary moment is it hey man i
shit myself honestly it was hard it was hard
i mean i always knew that i wanted to do and
go into this field of work now i've spent the
last my my background is in the corporate tech
so i always known that i've always wanted to
do something with people but then elevations
and all that I just didn't know what it was but
then to take the step to do it my wife gave me
12 months right and she said okay look here's
12 months I approached her once and I said hey
I need to leave work and she's like what are
you talking about right and I was like I need
to start something of my own and I really cannot
work for anybody and she said but we can't at
the moment because financially we weren't stable
Yeah, and then I then said fine totally understand
I still worked in the background Did a bit of
coaching worked with some execs at work and all
that then they started paying me outside of work
So it was a bit of a side hustle going on for
me, too I wasn't I wasn't certified in any way,
but they basically said they they again This
is going back to relationship building trusting
when you when you have good relationships and
you've got good trust The certifications, the
accreditations mean nothing. And they said the
same thing to me. These were as Gazex who have
been around for a lot longer than I have, right?
They were probably, what, 20, 30 years older
than me. They said that they'll pay me outside
of work because I help them. And that was like
the step thing. My gosh, if I can do this, imagine
what else I can do. Right. And then I came out
and I said to my wife, okay, look, right, this
is the time she said, okay, we're a little bit
financially stable. It's not going to be easy,
but I'll give you 12 months. Yeah. Ten years
on before more than that now. Okay. I people
say to me will you ever retire? I said, no, I
will never retire. I don't believe in retirement
Because I love what I do I Go and then I said,
why do you not believe in retirement? I said
well retirement for me is that you stop doing
something that you've been doing for a long time
And then you move on to something else. So you
retire one thing, but then you find something
else to do Okay, that's that's the way I see
retirement as because you obviously but look
when people have been working for like 20 30
years into a company and then they retire They're
retiring from that company, but then they're
still gonna find and then they'll say oh I want
to do something that I've never done before or
Experience something. Well, that's exactly what
you're doing. You're starting something else.
Yeah, it was hard The whole thing was hard and
it is scary honestly, but I wish it upon anybody
that wants to do it. Yeah and but knowing that
it is it's hey man it's i don't like painting
rose petal pictures or making things fluffy in
any way you just got to be real hard truth to
say that look this is this is going to be a tough
road okay you are there are they're going to
be You're going to be falling off cliffs at some
point, right? But you know what, that cliff,
you'll be able to stand back up. You're not going
to fall flat and not be able to get back up because
there's only one time that will ever happen in
your life when it ends, right? So don't think
about that, right? Think about doing everything
else. Exactly. It's like people always say baby
steps, but the reality about baby steps, and
if you, you know, I'm sure you have some memories
of these kids fail all the time when they're
learning how to walk. Yeah, they keep on failing
day in day out, but they keep on pushing because
the desire to walk is much bigger than desire
Not to walk. Yeah, and it's the same thing with
our lives and our personalities and who we are
It's like yeah, you're gonna keep on falling
and tumbling down But you're gonna pick yourself
up and learn something every time you fall and
that's okay. That's how you grow That's part
of life, right? Yeah, I turn into game. Well,
I turn into game count how many times you fall
Right exactly because then it becomes a story
to tell Right, I say to everyone I went if this
I say you are gonna fall But look, why don't
you just count how many times you fall and then
what you know? Yeah, you count how many times
you fall? Okay, because then you'd be like shit.
I fell again. Okay now get back up again Alright,
that's enough. That's fallen ten times get back
up on the 11th time, right? You never know that
11th opportunity could be just standing right
there in front of your face when you stand up
There's this horrible, not horrible, but there's
a guy called Brian Tracy and I remember listening
to his audio books on sales, right? Cause I was
back trying sales and he said something when
you're making cold calls and cold calls are really
hard. It's by the 50th that actually you're going
to have a yes. Everything else is going to be
a no. And I was like, I'm sure he can be right.
And then I started measuring and I realized that
actually he's pretty accurate. So when I was
cold calling people, I was like, okay, 47, 48,
49. I'm getting very close to the yes that I
actually need to hear. And my enthusiasm just
built up. And I knew for a fact the first...
20 or 30, they're going to be an absolute disaster.
Had nothing to do with my skill set. Just had
something, you know, it is what it is. It's a
numbers game in the end. But yeah, that kind
of kept him motivated. But I was keeping track
of things. I knew that something else was happening.
It was something good. So it is a good point
that you put about that around the same. And
that's that is quite accurate as well. It's like
when you when you post a piece of content, you're
not going to expect it to go viral straight away.
Right. And if it does. good on you okay but don't
just sit on it right because the next post you
do probably won't go viral right so what do you
got to keep doing you got to keep keep working
be consistent but that's when people talk about
oh i'm not motivated enough and i always say
this as well my motivation does not last okay
i don't even use the word motivation because
you could go up but your motivation wants you
will drop hands down you will drop okay and that's
the truth of it all okay but the thing is what
you do need is just basically need to make sure
that you're disciplined enough to stay consistent
and that's all you need those two things to keep
moving forward okay and you maintain that you
have the right people around you to help you
stay to that sort of level you'll have a little
dip but you'll be able to get back up and maintain
that level and it's almost like having a flat
line for a long time right because when you're
disciplined you're consistent you are going to
have that increase the graph is going to go up
But there's a higher chance of it going up than
dropping down. So having that sort of mindset
changes everything completely. I think you know
for example like there was a couple times in
my life where I would go to the gym every single
day and I realized I had really good days and
really horrible days and the horrible days I'm
going to the gym I probably sit there for 10
minutes, but I'll still go to the gym Yeah, right
and that all adds up in the end it all adds up
and it helps you with the consistency But most
importantly helps with something else, which
is even though you might not feel that he had
a good workout that day Your brain says to you,
you know what, you've achieved something. You
went out of the house, you went to the gym and
that's worth something. And that's something
pushes you to the next day. And the next day
is going to be great, but you need to keep on
pushing. Right. So yeah, always remember how
you feel after you've done it. Exactly that.
Yeah. Yeah. It is hard. I mean, who likes going
to the gym. I don't like going to the gym, but
then you just got to think about how you're going
to feel when you finish it. Okay. And the same
thing in business as well. They're going to be
moments that you're going to be like, oh, really
don't like doing this. But then you think, well,
if I've got that one or two tasks that I've completed,
how am I going to feel once I've done it? OK,
you can't see how further you've got, but you've
actually taken that step further, too. Right.
And that could lead to something else. OK. I
mean, it's not nothing is about all when we listen
to the language again, it's down to language
as well of how you basically speak, how your
behavior is, how your characteristics to other
people are all these sort of things. It's never
a case of I have to do anything. It's always
I get to do it all Yeah, so having changing those
sort of changing and we hear it I mean some of
the greatest people have said these same words
You never have to do anything you get to do all
you never have to wake up you get to wake up
All those sort of things. Yeah, so it's important
to keep that in your head. Keep remind yourself
those small things Chet, as we're nearing the
end of the podcast, if people want to reach out
to you, how can you do so? Yeah, so if you want
to reach out to me, you can reach out to me directly.
I mean, I'm on LinkedIn. I live on LinkedIn.
So you can search me on Chet Hirani, which is
just my first name, C -H -E -T, surname Hirani,
H -I -R -A -N -I, two words. I'm on LinkedIn
there. I'm also on TikTok. I'm also on Instagram.
So you can, and the same words, Chet Hirani.
So just search those. Only one of them, one of
me comes up, thankfully. Yeah, just reach out
to me, DM me. Happy to ask any questions or anything.
You can also go to ChetHirani .com as well and
look at a few things there. I've got lots of
free handouts that you can basically take for
nothing. Everything's all there to help in any
way. And then just, yeah, reach out if you want
to connect in any shape or form. Sounds good.
Chad, thank you so much for your time. It's been
an absolute pleasure having you here on the podcast.
Yeah. Now, thank you very much, Ricardo. It's
been great. The podcast is also sponsored by
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