Welcome to the Innovation Conversation, a podcast
about innovators, both in business and real life.
Hosted by myself, Ricardo Rescual and Harry McCona.
This podcast is also sponsored by ODEV Tech.
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thestoreofevents .co .uk to read in the software.
Hi, and welcome to another episode of the Innovation
Conversation. Today we are joined by Annie Ciara.
Annie, welcome to the podcast. Thank you for
having me, Ricardo. So it's a pleasure having
you here. Annie, would you like to introduce
yourself to the audience, please? Yes. So I am
the CEO and founder of One Way X. And what we
do in a nutshell is we are an immersive commerce
platform for brands and retailers. And how do
you get started in all this? Cause it's, it's
quite complex. What do you do? I've had a look
at the website. So it's very interesting what
you do, how to get started with this. Fantastic.
So let me just explain a little bit more what
immersive commerce are. So we all know what websites
look like. It's 2D interface and The website
consumer experience has changed very little over
the last 20 years. So what we do is we really
bridge the offline, in -store retail experience
into a digital world, into the immersive. retail
commerce, if that makes sense. How I got started
is a, well, my career started in the casino or
integrated resort industry. And I used to work
for a company that sells software and hardware
into casinos. Especially I was looking after
the new business development sector. Um, which
means that in my lifetime, I've had the opportunity
in the opening project of some of the greatest
casinos in the world, such as Venetian and Wynn.
And as like an entrepreneur slash entrepreneur,
I'll always have a side hustle. So in my side
hustle, those days was bringing ideas to the
casinos in driving foot traffic to their property,
doing more promotions and events. So I don't
know if you remember, you remember Pokemon? Yes.
So one of the ideas we brought to the casino
is if you want to increase foot traffic into
your retail stores, why don't we create like
a Pokemon Go like app in WeChat because at that
time I was in Macau and Macau predominantly attracts
overseas travelers from mainland China. So the
app they use is WeChat. And so I'm very entwined
with what is going on with the consumers, what
the consumer behavior is. And I do a lot of like
deep research. And when I had a look at retail
and the shopping experience per se, and where
the consumers are heading and that those are
generation Zed, Jen Alpha, the younger generation.
The way they consume information is a lot different
to how we consumed information 20 years ago.
And what that looks like are, you know, a lot
of social media, but also very immersive social
media. So such as like live streaming, but a
lot of the younger generation are also on gaming
engines like not gaming engine, gaming platforms
like Roblox, for example, right? And that's how
they interact with brands. That's how they interact
with their friends. So how One Way X really come
about is, well, if we have a look at where the
consumers are going or who the future of consumers
are and how they consume information, how does
the brand interact with them and have a look
at what we have now? And we are still utilizing
2D interfaces, that's going to have to change
as soon as possible. Otherwise, those brands
that are still operating on 2D website are going
to lose the interaction with the younger generation
of customers, if that makes sense. It does. How
did you come up with this idea? Obviously, you
found an issue in the market. You kind of found
that there was a gap for it, but it must have
been scary moving from a nice steady job to being
an entrepreneur. So how was that journey like?
Yeah, it's interesting because I did, any entrepreneur
did speak to customers, but I started with the
end consumer in mind. What do the end consumers
want? Because essentially our company, we interact
with the brands and retailers and we have to
help them succeed, which is attracting their
customers. So I stood in front of Harrods for
a couple of days and any cool, trendy, young
shoppers that came out. I just go, can I borrow
five minutes of your time? How was your shopping
experience? Who do you love to shop the most
and why? If you can dream of the ideal world
of a shopping experience for you, whether it's
online and offline, what does that look like?
And it's really gathering the consumer insight
that gave me the idea to start One Way X. That
must've been a fun experience I would imagine.
Super fun. And I think as a startup, you always
have to kind of go back to the base camp, right?
You always have to then go back to speaking to
the end consumers. What value can we add to them?
And then pitch back to, you know, predominantly
our clients and go, Hey, these are the customers.
These are what the customers want. And we see
a gap in your business. So and so, and then,
you know, put it into our product development
pipeline, I guess. It's a big lesson when it
comes to product market fit, because I don't
think that many entrepreneurs are willing to
actually go and sit for four days in front of
hairs and ask people a bunch of questions, right?
They're probably too shy or just think, no, no,
this is going to work. We don't need to do any
research or anything like that. So yeah, it speaks
volumes. And how are you finding the market itself?
Are people very receptive? Are companies willing
to take the risk and actually adopt this new
technology? Yeah, really great. What we are seeing
is more and more of predominantly the luxury
and the mid -luxury brands are adopting to this
experience because it is critically important
for that market to storytell. We are all consumed
with so much information, so much brands, so
much products out there, right? So that brand
storytelling, that connecting, the emotive connecting
with the consumers are critical. And as we all
know, customer acquisition cost, especially advertising
on social media is getting more and more expensive.
So actually retention and building customer loyalty
is going to be far more cheaper and far more
affordable for brands and retailers to invest
into that, then keep pumping in money on advertising,
on meta and TikTok per se. Which obviously absorb
a lot of the costs and that's actually what you
don't want to do, right? Because then you end
up with the cost per acquisition and lifetime
value if the customer just goes down the drain,
which is exactly the opposite of what you want
to do. How are you finding the investors and
stuff like that? Are they very receptive? Are
you struggling to fundraise? How is that journey
like? No startup journey is going to be as smooth
as you want to be. There are a lot of hurdles.
There are a lot of roller coasters. So I wouldn't
say our, both our product market fit, trying
to find product market fit or investment journey
has been smooth sailing. But one thing, as you
know, as you speak to a lot of entrepreneurs
and founders, persistent and consistency is definitely
in our DNA. And we just have to keep knocking
on those doors. I think also finding investors
is one thing, but finding the right investors
is another thing. So we have been quite lucky
in finding some strategic investors that are
on our cap table. Not only do they bring their
expertise, being a founder themselves who have
exited their business, but also understand the
industry. So I guess what to answer that question.
Has it been easy? No, it hasn't been easy, but
it's also about continuing those conversations.
And what I find is that if we continue to update
those investors that we have spoken 12 months
ago, we might've been too early then, or we haven't
found our product market fit, or we didn't have
enough traction. It doesn't really mean that
that no can. cannot turn into a yes. So continue
those conversations, keeping the investors updated.
I mean, they are seeing so many portfolio companies.
So keeping just being in their presence, keeping
them updated on our progress can lead to future
conversations. Now, you mentioned on something
which I always quite like, which is grit and
the ability to keep on pushing forward even though
when things don't look up, what do you say to
yourself on those moments when things are not
looking up and you still need to push ahead?
So what do you say? What drives you? What drives
me is I think I have a very clear vision of where
I want to go in life. And bluntly say, I want
to create generational wealth. I think I've heard
one of your podcasts, we talk about being immigrants.
So I'm Hong Kong born, raised in Australia and
had hard working parents in Australia as immigrants.
And we see that them working two or three jobs,
it is not easy to raise them. a family, and I
think that drives me to become successful one
day. Quite transparent about it as well. Some
people just say, oh, I just want to change the
world. Well, let's just say, you know what, I
just want to make some money out of this, which
is, to be honest, it's gold for any investor
listening in, right? Because they know, okay,
you know what, our focus is on the right place,
which actually lets create a company that makes
a lot of money and everyone's happy in the process.
So, yeah. Yeah, I think it's one step at a time.
You do want to change the world, but without
any money, you can't change the world. So maybe,
you know, once we, the founders that have exit
out, I mean, I speak to a lot of exit founders
and they are so great in giving me their time,
their advice, their, you know, strategic thinking.
So I know it kind of always comes back around
and I know that one day I'll be doing that as
well. So not changing the world yet. Exactly.
Are you just fundraising in UK or some fundraising
internationally as well? Yeah, so we are currently
fundraising. We are currently fundraising our
pre -seed round on a safe note and we are speaking
to both retail investors here in the UK as well
as overseas. Predominantly our customer database
or our clients that we speak to are across Asia.
and as well as the US. So it makes sense for
us to have investors there because that can also
open different opportunities and network for
us in those regions. I was just about to ask,
are you finding major differences between the
UK market and all the others or pretty much the
same top of mindset and questions? That's an
interesting question because I went back home
a couple of months ago to Australia and found
myself in like startup events and just asked
species, how is the fundraising landscape looking
over there? And it seems like every country is
different. I guess it's, you know, different
market, different personality. What I have consumed
is that the US investors are a lot more, what
is that word? A lot more gutsy, I would say.
UK investors are a lot more conservative and
Australia investors are a lot more conservative.
investors are a lot, lot more conservative. So
it really, different market have different outlook
on things when it comes to their investment.
Interesting. Now we kind of touched upon your
motivations, but when you're having a horrible
day, what do you say to yourself? The worst day
like you ever had in business, what do you say
to yourself to keep on pushing forward? I generally
take a step back. I think there was a quote from
Barbara Corrin, the real estate agent who is
in Shark Tank. And she said, if you're having
a shit day, just close your laptop, go out, have
some fun, clear your brain, come back the next
day and start again. And I found that quite interesting.
And I was like, yeah, that's actually a really
good idea. So if I'm having a really crap day,
I will just go out, get some fresh air, go for
a walk, you know, clean my head, take a notepad
and just restart again. I mean, tomorrow is always
a new day and it's, you know, the startup journey
is very much like that, right? Monday, you're
having the most fantastic successful day. Tuesday,
everything is going wrong from your product to
your client's project, to investment, to anything.
And it's just. It just keeps showing up every
day. I was just explaining to someone the other
day what it feels like to be in the startup.
And the way I put it was, I deal with more chaos
in the week than most people deal with in a single
year. And they will call that a bad year. I call
that a normal week. So I think it's a bit like
that. You keep on struggling. You never know,
oh, am I going to be completely out of money
this week? No, no. Okay. Tomorrow is the next
day. I have something. It's just, it's absolutely
crazy. It's also a lot of fun. But yeah, that's
the fun part, right? About being your own boss
rather than working for someone else. That's
the fun part of it. It is, but it's also the
challenge, isn't it? Because you never know how
things are going to go. But you also know that
depends on how much energy you put into things
and you know you can always find a way. Like
every time I have a problem, I'm thinking, I
can fix this. I'm a problem solver. And having
that mindset and that attitude, makes a world
of difference. Because even if I'm not able to
fix it straight away, eventually are we also
happy thoughts, you know, happy actions and all
that then it kind of works. Exactly. And you
always have to explore different avenues. Like
there is never a dead end, I would say. Um, even
if you think, okay, we've explored that avenue,
you know, I think as entrepreneurs as well, like
we think very creatively, is there anything else
we can do? Is there any one else we can speak
to? And you just never know doors will always
open if you just keep knocking on them. Exactly.
It's, it's called pivot, right? That's how you
pivot. eventually something will work out. What
do you wish you knew when you get like, like
if you could look back at Yanny from, I don't
know, five years ago, what would you tell her?
Yeah. Well, this funny thing is this is my second
startup. My first startup was a, um, event and
promotion company. So we did a contracted event
and promotions, uh, for casinos because, um,
that was my kind of industry that I fell into.
Looking back. Looking back at that time, I was...
still in my early 20s and just kind of went in
blind. And looking back at that time, I said,
I am never going to do this again. I think I
aged about 10 years. I went from 24 to 34. And
I said, if I ever going to do this again, it
has to be in a big enough market. It has to make
money when I'm asleep. It has to solve a really
critical problem. And so that's, I took all of
those learnings from that business into OneYX,
as well as all of the experience that I have
learned along the ways working with corporate
companies, working with family business companies
into this. So I didn't, I, you know, the idea
came to me, but I didn't start this slightly
for One Way X. I knew how hard and how much it
was going to take to do this. And with those
three that I have just mentioned, if that, if
one of them didn't align, I would never start
One Way X. And also, you know, and again, that
persistency like is key to driving the business
forward. And why the UK? Because from your story,
you were born in Australia, then you were also
working in Macau, then some, you know, Wynn Casino
and the Venetian is, they're both in Las Vegas,
but they could have something in Macau. I'm not
sure about this one, but it seems like you travel
all over the world. So why did you manage to
settle or how did you make the decision to settle
in the UK and why? Yeah. UK is my home now and
has been my home for the last eight years. And
when I first came into the UK, I left the casino
industry and didn't really know what to do with
myself. And I joined a prop tech, a property
technology startup that was very successful and
was acquired. And that's where I really got my
tech innovation buzz. And I'm still friends.
I had lunch yesterday with one of my ex colleagues
from the company. We are still very close. We're
still close friends from that. And just thought,
you know, the opportunity that UK gives to entrepreneurs
and founders, especially with the SEIS and EIS,
Innovate UK, you know, yourself that are in the
startup scene and there are many other. Thank
you. Well, you support. Oh, yeah. I don't think
I'm a national treasure just yet, but who knows.
Well, I'm naming you the national treasure. Thank
you. That's very kind of you. You have my badge.
I might get an I -hood sometime soon. Yes, thank
you so much. So, yeah, I mean, I don't feel like
I would start a company elsewhere because I've
made this my home. And what would you change
if you could change anything? What would that
be? I can change a lot. You can because you're
an entrepreneur. Have a thousand clients sign
up. No. How do you mean change in what sense?
I mean in your journey, because we all kind of
struggle with a couple of things, right? What
was the one thing that really pissed you off?
And you kept on thinking, you know, I need to
change this because I wish it could be better.
Something. Yeah, I think on top of mind that
there have been two lessons that I've learned
over the last 12 months in my journey. And one
of them was spending too much focus and too much
time on the product and tech. um, at the early
days and not enough time on clients. So we had
to pivot that very quickly. That's one thing
I've learned. The second thing I've learned,
um, has been the second thing I've learned has
been not speaking up sometimes. Like, I don't
know, it's strange because I want my team to
have bring in their ideas and to bring in, you
know, their thoughts and they're planned on the
table. But there was a couple of times in my
gut, I just thought, this is going to steer away
from the vision, but I'm just going to let them
do that. And it was incorrect. And I just, so
that I've learned that you have to be very stubborn
on your vision and not the path, not how you
get to that. Right. So you still have to give
your team. the freedom to explore and to make
mistakes on their end, but it has to stick to
number one company's goal and company's vision.
Interesting. Now you actually touched upon a
very interesting subject here, which is leadership
and especially leadership in a very small company
because it's key to be able to lead people on
the right path. Did you always have that? Did
you kind of learn as you went along? Tell me
a bit more about the challenges of being a leader
within the startup. Yeah. So in my previous experiences,
I've had the opportunity to lead a team. So I've
learned, um, a lot within that, but you know,
being your own startup, being your own boss,
it's a lot different, um, than working for another
company. And I think it's one of those things
you think this is how you supposed to lead or
become that. leader, but you also learn along
the ways, like what I've said, you know, what
I've, what I would change or what I would, what
I have learned over the last 12 months is these,
because I know, for example, spending too much
time on product and tech, I, we've lost about
three months and three months is massive in startup,
right? And we've lost about three months and
I will never do that again. And I think because
of that lesson that I've learned, it would apply.
You just get better at it, I think. For the young
listener listening into this and just about to
launch their business, what advice would you
give them? Or how many advices would you give
them? Also a good question. I think if you have
the entrepreneurship in your bone, just start.
I mean, there is no such thing as I mean, we
fail every day and the only way you fail is you
don't get back up and try again. Right? So if
you have an inkling of an idea, go out, speak
to clients, go even get an internship to learn
how other people to speak to clients. One thing
that I've also learned in my previous company
is problem solve for clients, because it's very
hard to sell something if you're not solving
a client's problem. And just have the guts and
just start, even as a side hustle. Interesting.
You know, when it comes to uncertainty, because
obviously there's always going to be tons of
uncertainty. How do you personally manage all
that uncertainty? Because you kind of never know
what's going to happen tomorrow. we have a lot
of wishes like we wish that would happen but
in the end it's anyone's guess if it's going
to happen or not so how do you deal with that?
Yeah. For me personally, I always have a plan
A, plan B, plan C. Plan A is this is what we
want to get to. And if we can't get to that by
X, Y, Z, then plan B looks like this. And so
you know, you have contingencies and you know,
you have different avenues to explore if one
doesn't work. And that helps me, you know, number
one, like plan with my team, if this doesn't
work, we'll go with that. Also too, it doesn't,
I don't have a dead end because I know, okay,
if this is a no -go or if my thesis or if my
thinking is incorrect, then I know to explore
that. So yeah. Sorry, go ahead. Yeah. So like
I said, you know, sometimes I will go out for
a walk and take my notebook and it's just brainstorming
all of this kind of stuff in a notebook and just,
just clear your head and yeah. It feels like
you guys are in the right track, in the right
track and path, if that makes sense, both of
these things. Annie, if people want to reach
out to you, what's the best way of doing so?
Yep. So you can reach out to me on LinkedIn.
It's Ciara, A -double -N -I -E -S -I -A -R -A
or my email address, Annie, A -double -N -I -E
at onewayx .com. Now, before we go, and we only
have the details here, let's swap the format
a little bit, which is... What's the last book
you read or the most impactful book you read
in the last 12 months? I knew you were going
to ask this question because I've listened to
your podcast. So I've been reading a lot of marketing
books and the last 12 months, I can't choose
one book, but I love the Peter Till book from
Netflix. I thought that was a really good book
for any entrepreneurs and any startups. But right
now I'm reading All Blacks, The Legacy. Oh, interesting.
That is a book I would not imagine that would,
you know, that you pick up, if that makes sense,
unless you're very much a rugby fan. I am a rugby
fan and All Blacks is one of my favorite team.
I am a bit trader here and not go for the Australians,
but I do love the Huckers. But this book is actually
teaching about business, consistency, the persistent,
treating your team or treating your how to lead.
trading your team fairly, how to become a leader
and so on. So this is a really good book. Like,
and did you learn the Hakkas already or? Yeah,
I'll show, I'll demonstrate it to you next time
we meet. Imagine! I don't think, I don't think
my Hakka move will translate through a podcast.
You'll be surprised, it'll make a great clip
for social media though. You'll be the first
guest doing a Hakka, so you never know all these
things. I know, right? Although then all of your
fellow Australians might be slightly upset. I
know, I can't. Please cut that out. But yeah,
it's interesting. All right, Annie, we have all
the information from your startup and also your
journey. It's been an absolute pleasure talking
with you today. Thank you so much for your time.
Thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure.
Thank you. Notion is offering six months for
free for new users. Make sure you check out our
website, the startupevents .co .uk to read them
this often. This podcast is also sponsored by
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