WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.859 Welcome to the Innovation Conversation, a podcast 00:00:02.859 --> 00:00:05.419 about innovators, both in business and real life. 00:00:05.879 --> 00:00:08.380 Hosted by myself, Ricardo Rescual and Harry McCona. 00:00:08.480 --> 00:00:11.699 This podcast is also sponsored by ODEV Tech. 00:00:12.439 --> 00:00:14.640 ODEV Tech is your premier software development 00:00:14.640 --> 00:00:18.019 partner. Make sure you check them out at odev 00:00:18.019 --> 00:00:22.399 .tech. The podcast is also sponsored by Notion 00:00:22.399 --> 00:00:25.359 .so. Notion is offering six months for free for 00:00:25.359 --> 00:00:27.839 new users. Make sure you check out our website, 00:00:28.000 --> 00:00:30.559 thestoreofevents .co .uk to read in the software. 00:00:32.020 --> 00:00:34.619 Hi, and welcome to another episode of The Innovation 00:00:34.619 --> 00:00:36.560 Conversation. Today we are joined by Lorraine 00:00:36.560 --> 00:00:39.000 Cartland. Lorraine, welcome to the podcast. Thank 00:00:39.000 --> 00:00:41.460 you very much, Ricardo. I'm delighted to be here. 00:00:41.799 --> 00:00:43.380 It's a pleasure having you here. Lorraine, would 00:00:43.380 --> 00:00:44.880 you like to introduce yourself to the audience, 00:00:44.939 --> 00:00:48.039 please? Well, my whole background, my career 00:00:48.039 --> 00:00:50.359 has been around building brands to drive growth. 00:00:50.619 --> 00:00:53.820 And that's from working with small early stage 00:00:53.820 --> 00:00:57.200 businesses. through to large enterprise organizations. 00:00:57.840 --> 00:01:00.640 The fundamental principles are the same. It's 00:01:00.640 --> 00:01:02.880 just the nuances and depth which you go into, 00:01:02.920 --> 00:01:05.340 but I have a really strong purpose -driven philosophy 00:01:05.340 --> 00:01:09.099 about making brand strategy accessible to more 00:01:09.099 --> 00:01:11.420 leanly resourced businesses so they can still 00:01:11.420 --> 00:01:14.159 build robust, successful brands, even without 00:01:14.159 --> 00:01:17.400 big marketing teams. So you kind of help them, 00:01:17.400 --> 00:01:19.560 I guess, create their own story and put it out 00:01:19.560 --> 00:01:22.859 there for people to be attracted to it. Yeah, 00:01:22.859 --> 00:01:25.459 it's about building out a really robust brand 00:01:25.459 --> 00:01:27.980 strategy. There's key elements you include in 00:01:27.980 --> 00:01:30.819 doing that, mapping that out effectively so you've 00:01:30.819 --> 00:01:33.359 got a really strong north star to reference off, 00:01:33.819 --> 00:01:35.980 and then looking at how you deploy that really 00:01:35.980 --> 00:01:38.280 effectively over the relevant channels. And of 00:01:38.280 --> 00:01:41.480 course, with early stage businesses, you're typically 00:01:41.480 --> 00:01:43.819 iterating, you're moving fast, you're developing, 00:01:43.939 --> 00:01:45.719 so you've got to have some flexibility around 00:01:45.719 --> 00:01:48.250 that. But you've also got to have a strong baseline 00:01:48.250 --> 00:01:50.829 that anchors you back to what it is you're building 00:01:50.829 --> 00:01:53.670 and who your target audience is and what your 00:01:53.670 --> 00:01:55.989 revenue model is. So there are the fundamentals 00:01:55.989 --> 00:01:59.209 and then it's right. Well, how do we, in order 00:01:59.209 --> 00:02:01.109 to be a powerful brand, you've got to have some 00:02:01.109 --> 00:02:04.890 strong differentiating factors. So having real 00:02:04.890 --> 00:02:07.469 clarity or getting clarity around, well, what 00:02:07.469 --> 00:02:11.050 is our value proposition? What are our core differentiators? 00:02:11.930 --> 00:02:14.129 And not losing sight of the fact, particularly, 00:02:15.409 --> 00:02:17.969 With say tech businesses, they tend to be very 00:02:17.969 --> 00:02:20.530 feature benefits driven a lot of the time, but 00:02:20.530 --> 00:02:23.849 you cannot lose sight of the fact that 60 % of 00:02:23.849 --> 00:02:28.210 branding is driven by emotion and 40 % by product 00:02:28.210 --> 00:02:30.550 or service. So you've got to understand what 00:02:30.550 --> 00:02:33.789 are the underlying drivers about what it is or 00:02:33.789 --> 00:02:37.189 the reason why a customer might or prospect might 00:02:37.189 --> 00:02:40.129 buy what you have to offer. And what is the big 00:02:40.129 --> 00:02:41.669 difference it's going to make in their life, 00:02:41.689 --> 00:02:45.340 whether you're selling B2C or B2B? And then you 00:02:45.340 --> 00:02:47.419 build on that, but you've got to have under it. 00:02:47.419 --> 00:02:50.020 So it's not about you. The first thing your customer 00:02:50.020 --> 00:02:52.020 is going to look at is what's in it for me and 00:02:52.020 --> 00:02:54.300 what's the compelling reason to buy and do I 00:02:54.300 --> 00:02:57.080 get it really quickly? And how am I so much better 00:02:57.080 --> 00:02:59.039 than anything else that might be competing in 00:02:59.039 --> 00:03:02.199 that space in the marketplace? How do you get 00:03:02.199 --> 00:03:04.939 started with all this? How did I get started? 00:03:05.080 --> 00:03:09.800 Oh gosh. I guess I started off my career working 00:03:09.800 --> 00:03:12.580 in agencies then I worked for a while in television. 00:03:13.039 --> 00:03:16.780 And then I worked a lot with consumer oriented 00:03:16.780 --> 00:03:19.740 brands before moving much more into the B2B context. 00:03:20.120 --> 00:03:22.939 And if you're working with consumer brands and 00:03:22.939 --> 00:03:25.460 you're working in a retail environment, you have, 00:03:25.539 --> 00:03:27.819 it's a very cutthroat environment. You have a 00:03:27.819 --> 00:03:30.840 very short life. If you can't sell very fast 00:03:30.840 --> 00:03:33.180 and capture the attention of the consumer within 00:03:33.180 --> 00:03:36.879 nine seconds and convince them of what it is 00:03:36.879 --> 00:03:39.270 that's really compelling. and why you're the 00:03:39.270 --> 00:03:41.330 best option and you fit within what they're prepared 00:03:41.330 --> 00:03:45.250 to spend. You're going to be delisted within 00:03:45.250 --> 00:03:48.930 two to three weeks. And also bringing any physical 00:03:48.930 --> 00:03:52.610 product to market typically has a capital outlay 00:03:52.610 --> 00:03:55.110 that's very different for building maybe a tech 00:03:55.110 --> 00:03:57.689 brand and the distribution behind all of that. 00:03:57.990 --> 00:04:00.590 And then the whole story around the proposition 00:04:00.590 --> 00:04:03.960 of what it is, what you're going to sell. That's, 00:04:03.960 --> 00:04:06.819 that's what got me into the whole area of building 00:04:06.819 --> 00:04:10.099 brands to drive growth. And then diversicribe 00:04:10.099 --> 00:04:12.319 working across, I pretty much have worked across 00:04:12.319 --> 00:04:14.580 all sectors at this stage, except for the few 00:04:14.580 --> 00:04:17.160 that I've electively decided not to for whatever 00:04:17.160 --> 00:04:19.759 ethical reasons, but pretty much all sectors 00:04:19.759 --> 00:04:22.079 at this stage. So the principles are the same. 00:04:22.329 --> 00:04:25.709 But the nuances of what drives the decision making 00:04:25.709 --> 00:04:28.329 and also cultural, the filters of when you're 00:04:28.329 --> 00:04:30.990 living in a global world. So a lot of the communications 00:04:30.990 --> 00:04:33.269 I will be involved in is very multicultural. 00:04:33.509 --> 00:04:35.850 So I'm just standing the drivers, whether you're 00:04:35.850 --> 00:04:37.970 a product offering, and I use that in the broad 00:04:37.970 --> 00:04:40.230 sense of whether it's a SaaS or a tech product 00:04:40.230 --> 00:04:42.730 versus a physical product. because you're still 00:04:42.730 --> 00:04:45.689 productizing your offering, but the drivers behind 00:04:45.689 --> 00:04:48.250 buying will, the subtleties of that will vary 00:04:48.250 --> 00:04:50.709 depending on also the cultural reference point, 00:04:50.730 --> 00:04:52.610 because that becomes the immediate filter through 00:04:52.610 --> 00:04:55.029 which people see things and how they make buying 00:04:55.029 --> 00:04:59.769 decisions. So all of that impacts in terms of 00:04:59.769 --> 00:05:03.230 how you sell what it is you have to offer. When 00:05:03.230 --> 00:05:05.069 you're building a startup, I'm sure you meet 00:05:05.069 --> 00:05:07.649 a lot of early stage founders. What advice would 00:05:07.649 --> 00:05:09.810 you give them in terms of the branding and how 00:05:09.810 --> 00:05:12.149 to position themselves in the market? The first 00:05:12.149 --> 00:05:15.449 thing I'd start with is, and this might sound 00:05:15.449 --> 00:05:18.430 like a corny or coined phrase, but step into 00:05:18.430 --> 00:05:21.149 the customer's shoes. What are the psychological 00:05:21.149 --> 00:05:24.769 drivers behind why they are potentially going 00:05:24.769 --> 00:05:27.870 to buy what you have to offer? And the first 00:05:27.870 --> 00:05:31.149 thing, human nature, when that person even notices 00:05:31.149 --> 00:05:32.610 what you have to offer, first of all, you've 00:05:32.610 --> 00:05:34.569 even got to get their attention in a very noisy 00:05:34.569 --> 00:05:36.990 world. So you've got to break through that noise. 00:05:37.279 --> 00:05:39.639 And the first thing subconsciously they're going 00:05:39.639 --> 00:05:43.060 to ask us in a nanosecond is, what's in for me? 00:05:44.180 --> 00:05:46.540 And you've got to have that front and center 00:05:46.540 --> 00:05:49.139 really strong and compelling. The level at which 00:05:49.139 --> 00:05:51.920 you drive that depends again, what kind of brand 00:05:51.920 --> 00:05:54.339 you're building. So understanding the psychological 00:05:54.339 --> 00:05:57.180 drivers and the challenges around, are you solving 00:05:57.180 --> 00:05:59.319 a massive problem? Are you disrupting something 00:05:59.319 --> 00:06:01.180 in the brand? Are you selling something that 00:06:01.180 --> 00:06:03.660 is instant gratification from a customer point 00:06:03.660 --> 00:06:05.899 of view? All of those have different drivers. 00:06:06.139 --> 00:06:10.439 So really being clear about that. The next thing 00:06:10.439 --> 00:06:14.259 is your gap analysis. So that, you know, everybody 00:06:14.259 --> 00:06:16.480 who's building a business understands looking 00:06:16.480 --> 00:06:18.579 for gaps and opportunities in the market. And 00:06:18.579 --> 00:06:21.319 so coming back to those fundamental principles, 00:06:21.720 --> 00:06:25.779 remember a brand is 60 % about emotions, a 40 00:06:25.779 --> 00:06:28.720 % about the physical product or service, physical 00:06:28.720 --> 00:06:32.480 or non -physical. So what are the emotional drivers 00:06:32.480 --> 00:06:36.000 around perception? Because perception is everything. 00:06:36.089 --> 00:06:38.629 Consistency and perception is everything. So 00:06:38.629 --> 00:06:41.970 you can actually potentially build a very robust, 00:06:42.230 --> 00:06:44.850 a very strong brand, but it may not actually 00:06:44.850 --> 00:06:47.850 be the best, say, piece of tech in the marketplace 00:06:47.850 --> 00:06:51.970 because you have convinced the marketplace with 00:06:51.970 --> 00:06:53.790 the emotional drivers and understanding what 00:06:53.790 --> 00:06:56.610 it is and how people make choices. So that then 00:06:56.610 --> 00:06:58.870 comes back to, right, you've done your background, 00:06:59.050 --> 00:07:01.110 your baseline, you've done your analysis, you 00:07:01.110 --> 00:07:02.930 can see where there are gaps and opportunities. 00:07:03.420 --> 00:07:05.279 Then mapping out your different target audience, 00:07:05.480 --> 00:07:08.019 those purchase personas. Every business has its 00:07:08.019 --> 00:07:11.240 core target audience. And then it has its secondary 00:07:11.240 --> 00:07:14.620 or third. Is it the core target audience that's 00:07:14.620 --> 00:07:16.720 the most profitable? They have your whole business 00:07:16.720 --> 00:07:20.500 built around. core target audience as it's perceived, 00:07:20.699 --> 00:07:23.000 but actually your, your greatest level of revenue 00:07:23.000 --> 00:07:25.420 is coming from your secondary audience. So examples 00:07:25.420 --> 00:07:28.319 of that per se would be two very different examples 00:07:28.319 --> 00:07:30.879 I'll give you here for context. So if you take 00:07:30.879 --> 00:07:33.180 say Harley -Davidson, I'm picking brands here 00:07:33.180 --> 00:07:35.540 that everybody knows. So if you take Harley -Davidson 00:07:35.540 --> 00:07:38.220 and you have that classic cliche of what the 00:07:38.220 --> 00:07:40.759 Harley -Davidson biker looks like, you know, 00:07:40.939 --> 00:07:44.040 the leathers, perhaps a little bit scruffy out 00:07:44.040 --> 00:07:48.139 on the wide open road, but actually. The greatest 00:07:48.139 --> 00:07:51.199 area of revenue is actually coming from the senior 00:07:51.199 --> 00:07:55.040 executive who, you know, moves out, he's in corporate 00:07:55.040 --> 00:07:57.920 enterprise world and at the weekend he hangs 00:07:57.920 --> 00:08:00.759 up the suit and he's putting on, you know, the 00:08:00.759 --> 00:08:02.199 leathers and he's getting out in the open road. 00:08:02.240 --> 00:08:04.240 That's actually where the greatest profit drives 00:08:04.240 --> 00:08:06.740 from, not from that core audience that you perceive 00:08:06.740 --> 00:08:09.560 it to be. You come back to Apple, a trillion 00:08:09.560 --> 00:08:13.920 dollar brand. That started off its whole existence 00:08:13.920 --> 00:08:17.790 around the whole professional, creative target 00:08:17.790 --> 00:08:20.529 audience and it's built its whole brand around 00:08:20.529 --> 00:08:23.750 the association with that really professional 00:08:23.750 --> 00:08:26.490 creative sector user. But the reality of it is 00:08:26.490 --> 00:08:30.949 it's actually not, it started off as a professional 00:08:30.949 --> 00:08:33.909 sector brand offering, but actually all its revenue 00:08:33.909 --> 00:08:37.090 driver comes from a consumer audience base. So, 00:08:37.529 --> 00:08:41.190 but if it didn't have the cache of what it's 00:08:41.190 --> 00:08:44.370 associated with that professional audience, it 00:08:44.370 --> 00:08:46.750 would not translate so well from a consumer because 00:08:47.039 --> 00:08:49.600 Cause you are paying a premium when you buy any 00:08:49.600 --> 00:08:52.360 Apple product, whether it's a laptop or a phone, 00:08:52.360 --> 00:08:54.879 you are paying a price premium and it commands 00:08:54.879 --> 00:08:57.379 that premium because of the associations with 00:08:57.379 --> 00:08:58.980 the brand. And that's before we get into all 00:08:58.980 --> 00:09:01.159 the technical stuff. And then, you know, you've 00:09:01.159 --> 00:09:03.899 got your lovers and haters of, I mean, I don't 00:09:03.899 --> 00:09:06.100 know how many times I've delivered working sessions 00:09:06.100 --> 00:09:09.440 or I might be delivering a keynote and I might 00:09:09.440 --> 00:09:12.799 ask the question. So can I go show a hands who's 00:09:12.799 --> 00:09:15.059 Android here? Who's an Android fan and who's 00:09:15.059 --> 00:09:18.200 an iPhone fan? And the room is typically equally 00:09:18.200 --> 00:09:21.899 divided. And this brings me on to another point. 00:09:21.940 --> 00:09:25.039 If you're building a strong brand, you can't 00:09:25.039 --> 00:09:29.299 be just vanilla in the middle. You've got to 00:09:29.299 --> 00:09:32.740 have something that is, again, a little bit triggering. 00:09:33.139 --> 00:09:36.600 So if you take, say, even Apple and Android, 00:09:36.679 --> 00:09:39.440 you will have people who absolutely can't stand 00:09:39.440 --> 00:09:41.799 Apple as a universal product and they don't like 00:09:41.799 --> 00:09:44.259 it at all. And then you'll have equally the absolute 00:09:44.259 --> 00:09:47.000 opposite where somebody works in Every product 00:09:47.000 --> 00:09:49.980 has integrated. It's so easy to use. They're 00:09:49.980 --> 00:09:52.440 not techie, but they're just die hard fans and 00:09:52.440 --> 00:09:54.259 they wouldn't entertain using anything else. 00:09:55.379 --> 00:09:57.419 So a brand to be compelling, if you're building 00:09:57.419 --> 00:10:00.340 a brand, got to be able to be prepared to hang 00:10:00.340 --> 00:10:03.700 your flag on some issue or topic that's going 00:10:03.700 --> 00:10:06.860 to draw a little bit of strong emotional feeling 00:10:06.860 --> 00:10:09.379 in your target audience. If they're feeling a 00:10:09.379 --> 00:10:11.740 little bit benign and it's safe down the middle 00:10:11.740 --> 00:10:14.929 of the road. Well, you're just going to blend 00:10:14.929 --> 00:10:18.149 in with everything else. So strong brands typically 00:10:18.149 --> 00:10:21.149 have an emotional driver that's relevant and 00:10:21.149 --> 00:10:23.590 compelling from a target audience perspective. 00:10:24.850 --> 00:10:26.710 I'm thinking about a case that I actually just 00:10:26.710 --> 00:10:29.450 found out in the news. If you heard about that 00:10:29.450 --> 00:10:32.389 American company, Liquid Debt, so they literally 00:10:32.389 --> 00:10:34.990 sell canned water. So instead of selling water 00:10:34.990 --> 00:10:38.129 in plastic, in plastic bottles, they sell it 00:10:38.129 --> 00:10:43.309 in well, cans, metal cans, because you can recycle 00:10:43.309 --> 00:10:44.769 as many times as you want, it's actually better 00:10:44.769 --> 00:10:48.370 for the environment, right? They had a gigantic 00:10:48.370 --> 00:10:50.769 success in the US, then they roll it out in the 00:10:50.769 --> 00:10:53.470 UK, massive failure. No one's buying something 00:10:53.470 --> 00:10:55.769 called liquid debt, because why would you buy 00:10:55.769 --> 00:10:57.750 canned water, right? Might as well buy a clear 00:10:57.750 --> 00:10:59.950 bottle of water. What do you do when that happens 00:10:59.950 --> 00:11:02.389 as a company? Like when your message resonates 00:11:02.389 --> 00:11:04.669 in one market, but completely fails in the other 00:11:04.669 --> 00:11:08.000 market? That's really interesting. First of all, 00:11:08.059 --> 00:11:11.399 it comes back to, and I've worked in multiple 00:11:11.399 --> 00:11:13.399 different countries and jurisdictions and helped 00:11:13.399 --> 00:11:16.960 develop brands. That comes back to, and I'd be 00:11:16.960 --> 00:11:19.039 really interested in seeing that as a case study 00:11:19.039 --> 00:11:22.419 as to the details as to why it failed in the 00:11:22.419 --> 00:11:25.440 UK market versus the US. I'd be really interested 00:11:25.440 --> 00:11:27.580 to know. That's intriguing. And I can think of 00:11:27.580 --> 00:11:30.259 all sorts of reasons why I would prefer to potentially 00:11:30.259 --> 00:11:32.580 drink out of, if it's like a stainless steel 00:11:32.580 --> 00:11:35.879 can. versus plastic and it's not just environmental 00:11:35.879 --> 00:11:38.139 it'll be all health as well but it also comes 00:11:38.139 --> 00:11:42.100 back to how well did they actually research that 00:11:42.100 --> 00:11:45.080 sector and that market because you can't assume 00:11:45.080 --> 00:11:47.620 just because they speak the same language but 00:11:47.620 --> 00:11:50.419 the cultural there's huge cultural differences 00:11:50.730 --> 00:11:53.649 between the UK and the US. And the US is like 00:11:53.649 --> 00:11:56.309 a continent. It's so big and each state has variables. 00:11:56.509 --> 00:11:58.889 And then if you're looking at the UK, well, yes, 00:11:58.970 --> 00:12:00.929 you've got, you know, the England, Scotland, 00:12:01.090 --> 00:12:03.309 Wales, and then you've also got, even if you 00:12:03.309 --> 00:12:05.529 just take England, you've got the variations 00:12:05.529 --> 00:12:08.269 between North and South or Middle England. So 00:12:08.269 --> 00:12:11.070 understanding those regional differences culturally 00:12:11.070 --> 00:12:15.370 is huge. And then if you haven't done that, you 00:12:15.370 --> 00:12:17.090 don't understand, well, what are the cultural 00:12:17.090 --> 00:12:20.299 differences around how people make decisions. 00:12:20.460 --> 00:12:23.240 I mean, Ireland is an English speaking world, 00:12:23.259 --> 00:12:26.519 but the difference between the UK and Ireland 00:12:26.519 --> 00:12:29.360 is quite significant culturally too. So you couldn't 00:12:29.360 --> 00:12:32.139 assume Ireland is actually quite an Americanized 00:12:32.139 --> 00:12:34.960 country. So they could have potentially dipped 00:12:34.960 --> 00:12:37.059 their toe into Europe and might have had a bit 00:12:37.059 --> 00:12:39.980 more success in the much smaller market of Ireland 00:12:39.980 --> 00:12:43.440 because it's more Americanized than the UK. Even 00:12:43.440 --> 00:12:47.259 though there's a huge proximity. between Ireland 00:12:47.259 --> 00:12:49.799 and the UK. But again, it comes back to understanding 00:12:49.799 --> 00:12:52.240 what are the drivers around what really, and 00:12:52.240 --> 00:12:54.019 then if you understand the drivers, then you 00:12:54.019 --> 00:12:56.379 build your messaging around that. And it comes 00:12:56.379 --> 00:12:58.440 back to also your value proposition. How does, 00:12:58.440 --> 00:13:01.379 how is that relevant or otherwise to your primary 00:13:01.379 --> 00:13:04.580 target audience? So it's really a case of changing 00:13:04.580 --> 00:13:06.639 your value proposition, changing your message, 00:13:06.779 --> 00:13:08.440 depending on the market you're going after, right? 00:13:08.480 --> 00:13:10.600 Cause it cannot be one size fits all type of 00:13:10.600 --> 00:13:13.139 approach. You can never be one size fits all, 00:13:13.240 --> 00:13:16.120 but the core purpose around what you're building 00:13:16.120 --> 00:13:19.500 and the values sitting behind that should actually 00:13:19.500 --> 00:13:22.539 fundamentally be the same. But it's a case of 00:13:22.539 --> 00:13:26.139 how you adapt the nuances to the relevant market. 00:13:27.000 --> 00:13:29.720 And then also it can be a case of, is that product 00:13:29.720 --> 00:13:32.960 even going to fly in that market? From a simple 00:13:32.960 --> 00:13:36.080 point of view, what stage of development is that 00:13:36.080 --> 00:13:38.399 market at in terms of its receptiveness or readiness 00:13:38.399 --> 00:13:40.700 to actually want to purchase something like that? 00:13:40.779 --> 00:13:43.559 Because markets can be at different stages of 00:13:43.559 --> 00:13:45.179 development. Like I've worked in markets that 00:13:45.179 --> 00:13:47.580 you would describe as emerging economies. So 00:13:47.580 --> 00:13:49.440 their readiness to purchase something would be 00:13:49.440 --> 00:13:51.720 very different because their buying power is 00:13:51.720 --> 00:13:54.259 different. Or there would be say parts and parts 00:13:54.259 --> 00:13:56.340 of Europe that are much more digitized, much 00:13:56.340 --> 00:13:59.360 more tech savvy compared to others. So their 00:13:59.360 --> 00:14:01.659 readiness to engage and buy into something will 00:14:01.659 --> 00:14:03.659 be very different to other markets. Europe's 00:14:03.659 --> 00:14:06.059 a tapestry. Each country is very, very different. 00:14:06.360 --> 00:14:08.799 It comes back to the old fashioned thing of doing 00:14:08.799 --> 00:14:11.460 your due diligence before you try and launch 00:14:11.460 --> 00:14:14.220 to market because it can become a very expensive 00:14:14.220 --> 00:14:17.529 mistake. But you can also iterate. So the big 00:14:17.529 --> 00:14:19.990 upside if you're selling something that's tech 00:14:19.990 --> 00:14:22.429 related is you can iterate and test cheaply in 00:14:22.429 --> 00:14:24.830 the marketplace before you fully invest. Whereas 00:14:24.830 --> 00:14:26.590 when you bring a physical product to market, 00:14:26.669 --> 00:14:29.450 it's much more capital heavy launching into market. 00:14:29.750 --> 00:14:33.789 But again, test small, fail fast before you go 00:14:33.789 --> 00:14:36.409 out there and do a big massive splurge. And that 00:14:36.409 --> 00:14:38.470 would be a fundamental principle you'd apply 00:14:38.470 --> 00:14:41.769 across any product development. Can you, as a 00:14:41.769 --> 00:14:45.330 brand, can you fail publicly? own up to that 00:14:45.330 --> 00:14:47.309 and actually carry on after that. I'm thinking, 00:14:47.370 --> 00:14:50.289 for example, that there's a brilliant case, a 00:14:50.289 --> 00:14:52.029 brilliant example in history, which is the new 00:14:52.029 --> 00:14:54.730 Coke in the 80s. In the US, they launched, that 00:14:54.730 --> 00:14:56.929 was the old Coke that everyone loved. And then 00:14:56.929 --> 00:14:58.929 because Pepsi was growing in marketing penetration, 00:14:59.169 --> 00:15:01.210 they said, oh, let's launch a new Coke. And everyone 00:15:01.210 --> 00:15:02.789 hated the new Coke. And there were people going 00:15:02.789 --> 00:15:04.690 on sports games saying, you know, I hate the 00:15:04.690 --> 00:15:06.909 new Coke, stuff like that. Can you own up to 00:15:06.909 --> 00:15:09.370 that mistake or do you just quietly withdraw 00:15:09.370 --> 00:15:11.049 from the market, whatever you put out there? 00:15:11.159 --> 00:15:13.460 I think it depends on the kind of, well, I know 00:15:13.460 --> 00:15:15.639 it depends on the kind of mistake you make. So 00:15:15.639 --> 00:15:18.059 if you're making a mistake that's politically 00:15:18.059 --> 00:15:21.179 very sensitive or culturally very sensitive, 00:15:21.379 --> 00:15:23.240 then it becomes more difficult to come back from 00:15:23.240 --> 00:15:26.179 that. Or if you somehow insult your target audience 00:15:26.179 --> 00:15:28.399 base, it's very difficult to come back from that. 00:15:29.539 --> 00:15:32.059 But if you're making, if you're making that kind 00:15:32.059 --> 00:15:34.220 of mistake, yes, I do think you can come back 00:15:34.220 --> 00:15:36.259 from it. It also comes back to, and this comes 00:15:36.259 --> 00:15:39.440 back to having your mitigation plans in place 00:15:39.440 --> 00:15:42.600 around your communications. Having thought through 00:15:42.600 --> 00:15:45.580 if we mess up, how are we going to respond quickly 00:15:45.580 --> 00:15:48.419 as opposed to finding yourself in the headlights 00:15:48.419 --> 00:15:51.299 under serious pressure and you can't think straight 00:15:51.299 --> 00:15:53.779 because you're going, holy, you know, oh, my 00:15:53.779 --> 00:15:56.720 goodness, we just made an absolute shocker here. 00:15:57.539 --> 00:15:59.559 And of course, any of us under pressure, we don't 00:15:59.559 --> 00:16:02.240 think as clearly as we do and we have real time 00:16:02.240 --> 00:16:04.279 for reflection. So when you're building any brand. 00:16:05.000 --> 00:16:08.019 always have given some support for when the proverbial 00:16:08.019 --> 00:16:10.460 might happen, hits the fan and you have got to 00:16:10.460 --> 00:16:12.500 have a something, at least have something in 00:16:12.500 --> 00:16:15.559 place, even if you have to quickly iterate or 00:16:15.559 --> 00:16:17.879 adapt around that. So yes, you can recover, but 00:16:17.879 --> 00:16:22.980 a lot of that comes back to is how engaged, how 00:16:22.980 --> 00:16:25.200 active are you in the marketplace in terms of 00:16:25.200 --> 00:16:27.740 communication at a grassroots level with your 00:16:27.740 --> 00:16:31.139 target audience? And if you have a level of transparency 00:16:31.139 --> 00:16:34.000 and open communication at a leadership level 00:16:34.000 --> 00:16:37.379 and you are open and forthcoming with your target 00:16:37.379 --> 00:16:40.279 audience, then you have a buffer of tolerance 00:16:40.279 --> 00:16:43.919 around when you make mistakes. But if you're 00:16:43.919 --> 00:16:47.100 trying to ignore it and pretend it hasn't happened, 00:16:47.299 --> 00:16:50.460 you're not going to do well because particularly 00:16:50.460 --> 00:16:53.740 on platforms like X, which dominant platform. 00:16:53.919 --> 00:16:55.860 It's just going to be out there so fast before 00:16:55.860 --> 00:16:58.259 you know it in nanoseconds. It's very hard to 00:16:58.259 --> 00:16:59.720 come back from that because you've got to own 00:16:59.720 --> 00:17:03.240 up on your mistakes. I'm thinking about like 00:17:03.240 --> 00:17:05.640 a very well -known British brand, Land Rover, 00:17:05.980 --> 00:17:07.940 right? Amazing cars. They've been in the market 00:17:07.940 --> 00:17:10.880 for decades, but you cannot get one of those 00:17:10.880 --> 00:17:13.400 cars and actually getting insured any time anywhere 00:17:13.400 --> 00:17:16.099 in London because they just refuse to do so because 00:17:16.099 --> 00:17:17.759 they keep on getting stolen because they've built 00:17:17.759 --> 00:17:19.740 something that actually doesn't work, which is 00:17:19.740 --> 00:17:21.740 a killer. Well, it works quite well, even for 00:17:21.740 --> 00:17:24.160 the criminals. Now, how do you own up to that 00:17:24.160 --> 00:17:26.720 mistake and how do you say, you know what, we'll 00:17:26.720 --> 00:17:28.819 continue building really good cars, but there's 00:17:28.819 --> 00:17:30.640 a slight issue. We're kind of trying to fix it. 00:17:30.700 --> 00:17:33.220 So just bear with us. How do you ask consumers 00:17:33.220 --> 00:17:35.680 or customers to continue working with the brand 00:17:35.680 --> 00:17:38.339 until they fix an issue? That's really challenging. 00:17:38.480 --> 00:17:40.500 I think you've got to have a level of transparency 00:17:40.500 --> 00:17:42.220 and you've got to bring your audience with you 00:17:42.220 --> 00:17:43.980 on that journey. And you've got to say, listen, 00:17:44.039 --> 00:17:45.700 we're at this. We're trying to deal with the 00:17:45.700 --> 00:17:48.200 problem. You keep your audience, your target 00:17:48.200 --> 00:17:51.450 audience up to date. I've been on the receiving 00:17:51.450 --> 00:17:56.549 end of when tech falls over badly. And it is 00:17:56.549 --> 00:17:59.049 a critical element of functionality within the 00:17:59.049 --> 00:18:01.309 business. And when you're not hearing stuff, 00:18:01.970 --> 00:18:06.289 whether it's via X or via email, you're not being 00:18:06.289 --> 00:18:09.509 kept updated, then your confidence dies very, 00:18:09.509 --> 00:18:11.630 very quickly. But if you're being kept in the 00:18:11.630 --> 00:18:14.049 loop, regular updates, we haven't got there, 00:18:14.109 --> 00:18:16.009 but we're there. We're expecting within the next 00:18:16.009 --> 00:18:18.650 few hours to have this or in the next few months. 00:18:19.920 --> 00:18:22.839 Then you are still going to maintain some level 00:18:22.839 --> 00:18:27.059 of confidence in the business because you are 00:18:27.059 --> 00:18:30.359 showing up with a level of integrity. So you're 00:18:30.359 --> 00:18:33.880 holding on to that confidence. But if you're 00:18:33.880 --> 00:18:35.960 not communicating, it doesn't matter what you're 00:18:35.960 --> 00:18:39.480 selling. Once you don't have credibility and 00:18:39.480 --> 00:18:41.900 you lose confidence and the market lose confidence 00:18:41.900 --> 00:18:44.539 in what you have to offer. So Land Rover is a 00:18:44.539 --> 00:18:47.420 brand with a huge legacy and it has a lot of, 00:18:47.420 --> 00:18:50.099 and I know a lot of Land Rover owners who drive 00:18:50.099 --> 00:18:53.220 and just absolutely love their cars. And there 00:18:53.220 --> 00:18:56.359 are other very prestigious car brands in the 00:18:56.359 --> 00:18:58.799 marketplace, but they are not the most reliable. 00:18:59.660 --> 00:19:01.700 Statistically speaking, but they are still loved 00:19:01.700 --> 00:19:04.299 by their owners and who are prepared to pay a 00:19:04.299 --> 00:19:08.259 premium for them. It comes back to your open 00:19:08.259 --> 00:19:10.579 communications and kind of going, right, we have 00:19:10.579 --> 00:19:12.940 this problem, this is where I'm fixing it and 00:19:12.940 --> 00:19:15.759 we should be coming around to it and have our 00:19:15.759 --> 00:19:18.640 customers in a better place. What about companies 00:19:18.640 --> 00:19:20.700 like let's say Ryanair? Cause we're talking about 00:19:20.700 --> 00:19:23.880 open communication and being on Twitter all the 00:19:23.880 --> 00:19:26.579 time and stuff like that. Cause let's be honest, 00:19:26.720 --> 00:19:29.319 Ryanair, we know they offer, you know, a very 00:19:29.319 --> 00:19:32.599 cheap, no -frills flight experience and they 00:19:32.599 --> 00:19:38.119 keep on advertising it. Speaking of Ryanair, 00:19:38.220 --> 00:19:42.500 things are going badly. That was not... The good 00:19:42.500 --> 00:19:44.259 thing is we can actually edit this bit out, although 00:19:44.259 --> 00:19:45.980 it would be quite funny just to leave it on. 00:19:46.980 --> 00:19:48.799 Okay. I mean, looking at how bad the company 00:19:48.799 --> 00:19:52.319 is and how it collapses. Oh, hold on. Let me 00:19:52.319 --> 00:19:54.700 actually reposition this every so slightly. So 00:19:54.700 --> 00:19:57.119 it's the same angle and I think it's a bit too 00:19:57.119 --> 00:19:58.519 high, but that's okay. Now I'm just thinking 00:19:58.519 --> 00:20:01.289 a company is like Ryanair, right? They own up 00:20:01.289 --> 00:20:03.950 to the fact that it's not the best flight experience, 00:20:04.170 --> 00:20:06.809 that people sit in seats that don't have a window 00:20:06.809 --> 00:20:08.410 seat, actually quite on the contrary, literally 00:20:08.410 --> 00:20:11.690 have the bulkhead in front of them. So is that, 00:20:11.690 --> 00:20:13.910 is that the correct way of dealing with it? Just 00:20:13.910 --> 00:20:15.710 telling people that, you know, that's what you 00:20:15.710 --> 00:20:20.829 should expect. When I think about Ryanair and 00:20:20.829 --> 00:20:23.609 its trajectory, not only of growth, but as a 00:20:23.609 --> 00:20:25.789 brand from where it's come from, there's a reason 00:20:25.789 --> 00:20:29.269 why it's. Europe's biggest airline and it is 00:20:29.269 --> 00:20:31.930 the most successful airline by a lot of counts 00:20:31.930 --> 00:20:35.329 But it comes back to that Marmite factor or that 00:20:35.329 --> 00:20:37.710 love it or hate it factor Marmite being a really 00:20:37.710 --> 00:20:39.890 British product that there's no middle ground 00:20:39.890 --> 00:20:42.190 on not everybody knows about it But if you haven't 00:20:42.190 --> 00:20:44.690 heard about Marmite look it up and it's again 00:20:44.690 --> 00:20:46.630 a love it or hate and they've actually developed 00:20:46.630 --> 00:20:48.829 the whole brand around that love it or hate it 00:20:48.829 --> 00:20:50.869 Relationship. So for those of you don't know 00:20:50.869 --> 00:20:52.529 go have a look. It's a great reference point 00:20:52.529 --> 00:20:55.589 if you're building a brand but coming back to 00:20:55.589 --> 00:21:00.539 Ryanair So Ryanair is a very successful no -frills 00:21:00.539 --> 00:21:04.640 operation and it effectively in Europe established 00:21:04.640 --> 00:21:07.660 that no -frill flight model very successfully. 00:21:08.539 --> 00:21:11.559 And it again, it has, I know people who will 00:21:11.559 --> 00:21:14.839 not step on board and others who are huge fans 00:21:14.839 --> 00:21:17.019 or others who just kind of go, yeah, I know what 00:21:17.019 --> 00:21:19.099 it is, but it gets me there and I don't have 00:21:19.099 --> 00:21:21.660 to spend an arm and leg to get there and I don't 00:21:21.660 --> 00:21:24.119 need to have the courtesy breakfast just to get 00:21:24.119 --> 00:21:28.789 me there. Ryanair has a very successful model 00:21:28.789 --> 00:21:32.990 and it has behind that. And I would also be an 00:21:32.990 --> 00:21:35.490 advocate for that. Strong brands typically have 00:21:35.490 --> 00:21:39.230 a strong voice behind it. So Michael O 'Leary 00:21:39.230 --> 00:21:43.390 is a very strong persona behind that brand and 00:21:43.390 --> 00:21:46.349 unapologetically so. And that's the decision. 00:21:47.549 --> 00:21:50.789 And the one time I recall that Ryanair tried 00:21:50.789 --> 00:21:55.119 to dabble in the warm and cuddly space. It didn't 00:21:55.119 --> 00:21:57.220 really work because none of us believed it when 00:21:57.220 --> 00:21:59.839 they tried to be warmer and cuddly. And they 00:21:59.839 --> 00:22:02.359 did go through that because at one stage they 00:22:02.359 --> 00:22:04.900 were getting such negative feedback from their 00:22:04.900 --> 00:22:08.640 customer base that people were prepared to spend 00:22:08.640 --> 00:22:13.059 another 50 to 70 euros just to not have that. 00:22:13.720 --> 00:22:16.160 So there was a deal breaker factor that they 00:22:16.160 --> 00:22:19.539 pulled back on because it was actually hurting 00:22:19.539 --> 00:22:23.720 their bottom line. when they tried to get very 00:22:23.720 --> 00:22:27.579 warm and cuddly about things, it just didn't 00:22:27.579 --> 00:22:31.160 work because it was so far removed from where 00:22:31.160 --> 00:22:35.099 the brand has come from. So it's a great case 00:22:35.099 --> 00:22:38.319 in point of being really clear about what you 00:22:38.319 --> 00:22:42.380 have to offer, unapologetic about it, making 00:22:42.380 --> 00:22:45.380 sure you bring value in the context of what that 00:22:45.380 --> 00:22:47.480 value means, because value doesn't necessarily 00:22:47.480 --> 00:22:51.640 mean with all the bells and whistles. value can 00:22:51.640 --> 00:22:54.920 be getting us there on time, reliably so, and 00:22:54.920 --> 00:22:57.700 knowing that when we go on board, it's not coming 00:22:57.700 --> 00:23:00.720 with all the other add -ons. And you can still 00:23:00.720 --> 00:23:03.559 like, you can still bring other elements into 00:23:03.559 --> 00:23:06.000 it. I mean, I've flown with like all of us with 00:23:06.000 --> 00:23:08.160 other discount airlines and they bring other 00:23:08.160 --> 00:23:10.559 elements into their brand that makes it successful 00:23:10.559 --> 00:23:13.299 and they still do it on a cost effective basis. 00:23:14.160 --> 00:23:16.880 Yes, you can be, but you have to stay true. So 00:23:16.880 --> 00:23:19.180 you were saying, well, can you change your value 00:23:19.180 --> 00:23:21.980 proposition significantly, no. When you've really 00:23:21.980 --> 00:23:24.619 got an established business model that works 00:23:24.619 --> 00:23:27.319 and that's what you're continuing to drive growth 00:23:27.319 --> 00:23:29.559 on, then you have to stay true to that and the 00:23:29.559 --> 00:23:31.759 purpose and the values and the vision behind 00:23:31.759 --> 00:23:35.500 that. But you can adapt subtle nuances that are 00:23:35.500 --> 00:23:38.400 relevant to that target audience and that jurisdiction. 00:23:38.900 --> 00:23:40.740 And Ryanair hasn't, you know, when it's looked 00:23:40.740 --> 00:23:43.660 to expand its bases in different parts of Europe, 00:23:43.740 --> 00:23:46.529 it hasn't worked everywhere. Because some, some 00:23:46.529 --> 00:23:48.710 areas just culturally just, it just doesn't resonate 00:23:48.710 --> 00:23:50.710 enough. So they can fly in and out, but it's 00:23:50.710 --> 00:23:52.650 never going to become a whole because culturally 00:23:52.650 --> 00:23:56.069 it just jars too much with the values of that 00:23:56.069 --> 00:23:59.089 particular region. And I'm thinking about, you 00:23:59.089 --> 00:24:01.329 know, a very well -known case in history, which 00:24:01.329 --> 00:24:05.049 is Henry Ford. He was once asked or once told 00:24:05.049 --> 00:24:07.549 the media that if he was to build what people 00:24:07.549 --> 00:24:09.710 wanted, they would want a carriage with more 00:24:09.710 --> 00:24:14.890 horses. Now, how do you as a company and as a 00:24:14.890 --> 00:24:18.970 brand, I guess, lead the way, but also inspire 00:24:18.970 --> 00:24:20.730 the consumer, the customer to say, actually, 00:24:20.730 --> 00:24:23.190 you know, this is what you actually need, which 00:24:23.190 --> 00:24:25.250 should actually be driving or using, in this 00:24:25.250 --> 00:24:27.490 case, you know, a car for Henry Ford. How do 00:24:27.490 --> 00:24:29.289 you do that? Because it's completely, some of 00:24:29.289 --> 00:24:30.930 the companies I talk to are building something, 00:24:31.089 --> 00:24:33.809 you know, revolutionary. And how do they tell 00:24:33.809 --> 00:24:35.710 the audience, actually, you don't want a faster, 00:24:35.710 --> 00:24:37.589 you know, horse, strong carriage, you actually 00:24:37.589 --> 00:24:40.970 want a car because of AB &C. So how do you do 00:24:40.970 --> 00:24:43.029 that? I actually think you can even bring that 00:24:43.029 --> 00:24:46.650 forward to another huge visionary who had a similar 00:24:46.650 --> 00:24:48.970 philosophy, and very successfully so, which would 00:24:48.970 --> 00:24:51.650 have been Steve Jobs, and he had a very interesting 00:24:51.650 --> 00:24:54.589 trajectory. There he goes again. Oh, yeah. The 00:24:54.589 --> 00:24:56.309 funny thing about - oh, okay, I just figured 00:24:56.309 --> 00:24:58.990 out what it was. It's a cable. I'm literally 00:24:58.990 --> 00:25:00.589 going to leave this on because I just think it's 00:25:00.589 --> 00:25:02.630 hilarious. The first time this actually happened 00:25:02.630 --> 00:25:05.369 so many times. Uh, so I'm leeching, I'm gonna 00:25:05.369 --> 00:25:08.269 leave this on. Case in point, he actually would 00:25:08.269 --> 00:25:10.609 have had, I can certainly remember footage where 00:25:10.609 --> 00:25:14.650 he said something very similar. And oftentimes 00:25:14.650 --> 00:25:18.630 when you're a visionary around whether you're 00:25:18.630 --> 00:25:22.109 selling physical product or service, often your 00:25:22.109 --> 00:25:25.130 audience cannot necessarily envision what that 00:25:25.130 --> 00:25:28.369 is going to look like. And I think if we go back, 00:25:28.509 --> 00:25:30.170 remember I was talking about, you know, that's 00:25:30.170 --> 00:25:32.170 a brand that started off with its roots around 00:25:32.170 --> 00:25:36.160 a professional base. But if we go back to the 00:25:36.160 --> 00:25:38.660 first time iPhone was brought to market and we 00:25:38.660 --> 00:25:41.619 go back and think about that launch and how he 00:25:41.619 --> 00:25:44.559 brought that to market and the language around 00:25:44.559 --> 00:25:49.180 it and how it was revealed. If you had asked 00:25:49.180 --> 00:25:52.180 the customer what they could, the average customer, 00:25:52.759 --> 00:25:54.680 mainstream customer around what they could envision, 00:25:55.299 --> 00:25:58.660 they wouldn't have seen it. And so Apple is consistently 00:25:58.660 --> 00:26:02.700 under Steve Jobs leadership. was an extremely 00:26:02.700 --> 00:26:06.859 innovative brand and often brought product to 00:26:06.859 --> 00:26:08.880 market that people hadn't envisioned. And of 00:26:08.880 --> 00:26:10.920 course, the launches were so exciting because 00:26:10.920 --> 00:26:12.500 you're going to go, what's the next big thing? 00:26:12.720 --> 00:26:17.519 And then you have people lining up, buying tickets 00:26:17.519 --> 00:26:21.299 to be sold to and the queues outside Apple stores 00:26:21.299 --> 00:26:24.279 for new launches, like days before they can buy 00:26:24.279 --> 00:26:27.480 it, are infamous. And that's all part of your 00:26:27.480 --> 00:26:31.799 brand. in terms of how it's perceived. Yes, building 00:26:31.799 --> 00:26:34.440 something's success. Now you do have, and I have 00:26:34.440 --> 00:26:37.180 worked with tech businesses, whereby you have 00:26:37.180 --> 00:26:38.960 challenges, whereby you're bringing something 00:26:38.960 --> 00:26:41.299 so new to market that you can be ahead of trend 00:26:41.299 --> 00:26:43.779 or before the market is really understanding 00:26:43.779 --> 00:26:46.640 what it is you are doing and why it's really 00:26:46.640 --> 00:26:49.319 of huge value. So that means you've got to do 00:26:49.319 --> 00:26:53.339 a huge amount of educating. So part of your responsibility 00:26:53.339 --> 00:26:56.680 as the brand owner, leader, visionary is going 00:26:56.680 --> 00:26:59.759 to go well. In order for the market to understand, 00:26:59.839 --> 00:27:02.279 we've got to present it to them in non -tech 00:27:02.279 --> 00:27:05.799 way in language that's relevant to them around 00:27:05.799 --> 00:27:08.740 how this is going to add massive value and change 00:27:08.740 --> 00:27:11.299 to their lives in a way that's really positive. 00:27:12.640 --> 00:27:15.000 That's where storytelling becomes incredibly 00:27:15.000 --> 00:27:17.299 important. And then coming back to understand 00:27:17.299 --> 00:27:19.660 your target audience. How does it solve a problem? 00:27:19.779 --> 00:27:22.119 How does it enhance their lives? How does it 00:27:22.119 --> 00:27:25.710 add value? How does it eliminate Barriers whereby 00:27:25.710 --> 00:27:27.789 somebody might think I'm not techy. I can't buy 00:27:27.789 --> 00:27:31.750 this is too difficult to use. So it comes back 00:27:31.750 --> 00:27:34.670 to how do you communicate what you have to offer 00:27:34.670 --> 00:27:36.809 in simple language that a seven or eight year 00:27:36.809 --> 00:27:40.609 old can understand? And make it all about them. 00:27:41.609 --> 00:27:44.329 And should you as a brand be accessible to getting 00:27:44.329 --> 00:27:46.589 feedback from customers or should it be this 00:27:46.589 --> 00:27:49.190 highly unattainable brand that no one can actually 00:27:49.190 --> 00:27:51.609 reach out to? I'm thinking, for example, companies 00:27:51.609 --> 00:27:54.869 like Hermes. So Hermes makes a limited number 00:27:54.869 --> 00:27:57.930 of handmade handbags and they're really hard 00:27:57.930 --> 00:27:59.210 to reach. It doesn't matter how much money you 00:27:59.210 --> 00:28:02.069 have. There's only a limited number of handbags 00:28:02.069 --> 00:28:03.630 in the market. That's it. That's the end of the 00:28:03.630 --> 00:28:06.069 story. How do you manage that as a brand or should 00:28:06.069 --> 00:28:09.990 you position yourself that way? That's a very 00:28:09.990 --> 00:28:12.970 clear brand strategy around scarcity and deliberate 00:28:12.970 --> 00:28:15.990 intent because in that context, it's very well 00:28:15.990 --> 00:28:20.000 understood by brand owners that Or we can just 00:28:20.000 --> 00:28:22.240 step back for a moment. When something is in 00:28:22.240 --> 00:28:26.299 limited amount of quantity or value and is unavailable, 00:28:26.720 --> 00:28:29.240 it immediately increases in its perceived value 00:28:29.240 --> 00:28:31.339 from a target audience point of view. So bring 00:28:31.339 --> 00:28:34.779 this back to something super simplistic. Say 00:28:34.779 --> 00:28:39.920 we have a problem with water supply, which we 00:28:39.920 --> 00:28:41.920 all would, to a certain level, if we're living 00:28:41.920 --> 00:28:43.980 in the western part of the world, we take for 00:28:43.980 --> 00:28:46.740 granted to some degree. So clean water supply, 00:28:46.740 --> 00:28:49.809 if that's a problem, then suddenly the supermarkets 00:28:49.809 --> 00:28:52.450 are going to sell out and water is priced at 00:28:52.450 --> 00:28:55.710 a premium. So if you take a lot of the premium 00:28:55.710 --> 00:28:58.549 brands, they deliberately operate on the basis 00:28:58.549 --> 00:29:01.950 of limited supply at a really premium high price 00:29:01.950 --> 00:29:04.109 point. And that is intentional and deliberate 00:29:04.109 --> 00:29:08.410 because then you've got all the status symbolists 00:29:08.410 --> 00:29:11.049 attached with like think of a handbag. There 00:29:11.049 --> 00:29:13.089 is actually a material of cost bait to that. 00:29:13.150 --> 00:29:15.470 And yes, they are beautifully made with really 00:29:15.759 --> 00:29:19.339 a high level of handmade skills work. But you 00:29:19.339 --> 00:29:22.700 can debate, well, how many thousands does that 00:29:22.700 --> 00:29:26.660 actually cost to make versus the actual end retail 00:29:26.660 --> 00:29:30.180 price? And that all comes back to, well, if you 00:29:30.180 --> 00:29:32.539 are a target audience, a certain kind of person 00:29:32.539 --> 00:29:34.619 who likes to have that draped over their arm 00:29:34.619 --> 00:29:36.640 and they like all the status symbol attached 00:29:36.640 --> 00:29:39.680 to it, and they know that of that particular 00:29:39.680 --> 00:29:43.079 model, only a hundred are going to be made. I'm 00:29:43.079 --> 00:29:44.880 just going to be one of those people that has 00:29:44.880 --> 00:29:48.930 it. That's what you're selling. As much the status 00:29:48.930 --> 00:29:52.710 symbol as it is, phenomenal craftsmanship. Interesting. 00:29:52.890 --> 00:29:54.710 I'm thinking about all the startups I know and 00:29:54.710 --> 00:29:57.450 everyone building res and it's funny how some 00:29:57.450 --> 00:29:59.730 of that get the brand positioning really, really 00:29:59.730 --> 00:30:02.089 well and I know exactly what they're about, but 00:30:02.089 --> 00:30:03.910 others are still just playing around in the market 00:30:03.910 --> 00:30:05.690 and they think, oh, everyone's going to buy our 00:30:05.690 --> 00:30:07.329 software. No, they're not. Everyone's going to 00:30:07.329 --> 00:30:10.130 use this. No, it doesn't work like that. So actually, 00:30:10.210 --> 00:30:11.849 you know, asking these questions and understanding 00:30:11.849 --> 00:30:13.470 that better, I think will add a lot of value 00:30:13.470 --> 00:30:15.289 to our audience because then they realize actually 00:30:15.289 --> 00:30:17.450 we should focus on the specific area of the market. 00:30:17.670 --> 00:30:19.349 We should focus on our brand image and brand 00:30:19.349 --> 00:30:21.670 positioning and then build around that because 00:30:21.670 --> 00:30:23.609 that's ultimately what's going to get you more 00:30:23.609 --> 00:30:26.630 and more customers. Like if you're starting with 00:30:26.630 --> 00:30:30.349 lean resources. Get clear on where your initial 00:30:30.349 --> 00:30:32.769 target audience is going to be and why you're 00:30:32.769 --> 00:30:34.809 going to be entering that market. You can't conquer 00:30:34.809 --> 00:30:37.150 the world at one go, even if you are selling 00:30:37.150 --> 00:30:40.130 a tech product and it's sold for, you know, it's 00:30:40.130 --> 00:30:44.250 so anybody in theory can access it. But you're 00:30:44.250 --> 00:30:46.289 not going to have success in every jurisdiction. 00:30:47.450 --> 00:30:51.109 So look at being successful in one and then scaling 00:30:51.109 --> 00:30:53.509 out from there as opposed to trying to conquer 00:30:53.509 --> 00:30:56.599 it all at one go. So you're managing the resources 00:30:56.599 --> 00:30:58.740 and you're able to fund that growth. It's an 00:30:58.740 --> 00:31:00.500 interesting balance, especially when you're asking 00:31:00.500 --> 00:31:03.000 for investors' money. Yeah. And you don't want 00:31:03.000 --> 00:31:04.819 to do any mistakes. Oh no, we're going to do 00:31:04.819 --> 00:31:06.640 everything perfectly from day one. Well, there's 00:31:06.640 --> 00:31:08.359 no such thing as perfect. You know there's going 00:31:08.359 --> 00:31:10.180 to be. It doesn't matter what you do in life. 00:31:10.420 --> 00:31:12.519 There's nothing perfect. And you have to get 00:31:12.519 --> 00:31:14.779 comfortable with imperfection. And I'm a recovering 00:31:14.779 --> 00:31:17.119 perfectionist, but you've got to get comfortable 00:31:17.119 --> 00:31:19.259 with imperfection. The thing is you just want 00:31:19.259 --> 00:31:21.559 to try and mitigate how bad those mistakes are 00:31:21.559 --> 00:31:24.539 so they don't completely wipe you out. So it's 00:31:24.539 --> 00:31:27.920 like iterate and manage exposure. So you don't 00:31:27.920 --> 00:31:29.799 completely destroy the bottom line. If people 00:31:29.799 --> 00:31:31.440 want to reach out to you and find more about 00:31:31.440 --> 00:31:33.339 all the wonderful things you do, how can you 00:31:33.339 --> 00:31:36.140 do so? They can, if they want to get in touch 00:31:36.140 --> 00:31:39.339 with me, they can email me brand at personadesign 00:31:39.339 --> 00:31:42.539 .ie or they can get me through the website. So 00:31:42.539 --> 00:31:46.640 that's personadesign .ie. Lorraine, thank you 00:31:46.640 --> 00:31:47.759 so much for your time. It's been an absolute 00:31:47.759 --> 00:31:50.039 pleasure. It's my pleasure. You're very, very 00:31:50.039 --> 00:31:53.099 welcome. Great chat. Thank you. The podcast is 00:31:53.099 --> 00:31:55.859 also sponsored by Notion .so. Notion is offering 00:31:55.859 --> 00:31:58.440 six months for free for new users. Make sure 00:31:58.440 --> 00:32:00.500 you check out our website, the startupevents 00:32:00.500 --> 00:32:03.160 .co .uk to read them this offer. This podcast 00:32:03.160 --> 00:32:06.819 is also sponsored by startupnetworks .co .uk. 00:32:07.180 --> 00:32:09.359 Startup Networks, it's an online forum where 00:32:09.359 --> 00:32:11.359 you can find all the resources you need to run 00:32:11.359 --> 00:32:14.119 your startup, from grants to investors to tips 00:32:14.119 --> 00:32:16.200 and tricks on how to be successful in your startup. 00:32:16.440 --> 00:32:19.619 This podcast is also sponsored by ODEV Tech. 00:32:20.299 --> 00:32:22.660 ODEV Tech is your premier software development 00:32:22.660 --> 00:32:26.079 partner. Make sure you check them out at odev 00:32:26.079 --> 00:32:26.819 .tech.