WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.859 Welcome to the Innovation Conversation, a podcast 00:00:02.859 --> 00:00:05.419 about innovators, both in business and real life. 00:00:05.879 --> 00:00:08.380 Hosted by myself, Ricardo Rescual and Harry McCona. 00:00:08.480 --> 00:00:11.699 This podcast is also sponsored by ODEV Tech. 00:00:12.439 --> 00:00:14.640 ODEV Tech is your premier software development 00:00:14.640 --> 00:00:18.019 partner. Make sure you check them out at odev 00:00:18.019 --> 00:00:22.399 .tech. The podcast is also sponsored by Notion 00:00:22.399 --> 00:00:25.359 .so. Notion is offering six months for free for 00:00:25.359 --> 00:00:27.839 new users. Make sure you check out our website, 00:00:28.039 --> 00:00:30.579 thestoreofevents .co .uk to read in the software. 00:00:31.679 --> 00:00:34.320 Hi, and welcome to another episode of the Innovation 00:00:34.320 --> 00:00:36.939 Conversation. Today, we are joined by Wojtek 00:00:36.939 --> 00:00:40.240 Buczanski. Wojtek, welcome to the podcast. Hi, 00:00:40.320 --> 00:00:42.079 Ricardo. Thank you for having me. Hi, everyone. 00:00:42.640 --> 00:00:44.899 The pleasure. Wojtek, would you like to introduce 00:00:44.899 --> 00:00:49.020 yourself to the audience, please? Okay, so... 00:00:49.070 --> 00:00:53.009 My name is Richard Introduce. I'm a co -founder 00:00:53.009 --> 00:00:55.590 of Fast Audit AI, which we'll probably touch 00:00:55.590 --> 00:00:58.969 on in a moment. What can I say? Polish born. 00:00:59.009 --> 00:01:01.289 I spent most of my adult life in London. I did 00:01:01.289 --> 00:01:06.510 all my education here and most of my career was 00:01:06.510 --> 00:01:10.230 in fintech and financial services with two years 00:01:10.230 --> 00:01:14.849 in consulting. So I've always been part of financial 00:01:14.849 --> 00:01:19.319 services industry. My education is in that. area. 00:01:19.540 --> 00:01:21.519 So I did my master's at London Business School 00:01:21.519 --> 00:01:25.439 and I'm currently doing a PhD in AI in ethics 00:01:25.439 --> 00:01:28.359 applications and use cases of AI financial services 00:01:28.359 --> 00:01:31.379 at the University of Cambridge. And up until 00:01:31.379 --> 00:01:34.540 now, I've always been a corporate person. So 00:01:34.540 --> 00:01:38.060 all my previous employers were large or very 00:01:38.060 --> 00:01:41.420 large corporates. So this is very much a debut 00:01:41.420 --> 00:01:45.099 for me on the entrepreneurship scene. What got 00:01:45.099 --> 00:01:47.819 you started? What made you take the plunge from, 00:01:48.000 --> 00:01:50.180 you know, having a nice stable corporate job 00:01:50.180 --> 00:01:52.959 to actually deciding to launch a startup. Well, 00:01:52.959 --> 00:01:55.079 I mean, the nice, you know, the thing about nice 00:01:55.079 --> 00:01:57.000 stable corporate job is that you know, never 00:01:57.000 --> 00:01:59.659 know when it ends and you don't, you know, I 00:01:59.659 --> 00:02:01.739 mean, you get your three month warning, but that's, 00:02:01.879 --> 00:02:04.760 that's about it. But it was really a combination 00:02:04.760 --> 00:02:06.680 of factors and I wouldn't even know where to 00:02:06.680 --> 00:02:10.919 begin. So I always had some sort of, let's say 00:02:10.919 --> 00:02:12.840 exotic respects for people who started their 00:02:12.840 --> 00:02:14.759 own businesses. And I always felt that I'm the 00:02:14.759 --> 00:02:18.150 last person who will ever be able to do it. And 00:02:18.150 --> 00:02:21.270 I sort of made peace with the fact that it will, 00:02:21.330 --> 00:02:23.229 you know, once I'm on my deathbed, it will be 00:02:23.229 --> 00:02:26.169 like, well, I wish I had done it. So I guess 00:02:26.169 --> 00:02:28.830 that was eating at me to some extent. It was, 00:02:29.169 --> 00:02:31.150 what got me started was a combination of factors. 00:02:31.330 --> 00:02:34.289 So the first was a recession and a change of 00:02:34.289 --> 00:02:37.330 luck in my corporate career, but it wasn't, I 00:02:37.330 --> 00:02:39.469 would say the defining factor. It was almost, 00:02:40.150 --> 00:02:43.729 it kind of felt like it was the right time. And 00:02:43.729 --> 00:02:47.379 also I... It sort of seems like the, I don't 00:02:47.379 --> 00:02:49.099 even believe in these things, but it seems like 00:02:49.099 --> 00:02:51.319 the universe was very strongly nudging me in 00:02:51.319 --> 00:02:55.199 that direction because I wasn't really feeling 00:02:55.199 --> 00:02:59.460 keen or willing to go back to corporate after 00:02:59.460 --> 00:03:01.840 I finished with corporate. It felt like I think 00:03:01.840 --> 00:03:04.419 I'm done at least for the, for now. I want to 00:03:04.419 --> 00:03:06.199 try something a little bit different. So that 00:03:06.199 --> 00:03:08.539 was, that was the first thing. And the other 00:03:08.539 --> 00:03:11.439 was that I, I connected with my friends from 00:03:11.439 --> 00:03:14.509 London Business School who, who was considering 00:03:14.509 --> 00:03:16.949 an idea for a business that we were discussing 00:03:16.949 --> 00:03:20.069 for quite some time when I was still in my high 00:03:20.069 --> 00:03:23.389 paying corporate job. And it just felt like such 00:03:23.389 --> 00:03:25.650 a wonderful idea, which I appreciate is something 00:03:25.650 --> 00:03:28.909 all founders think. It's a bias or delusion. 00:03:29.030 --> 00:03:31.050 Nobody thinks my idea is crap. Everybody thinks 00:03:31.050 --> 00:03:33.310 my idea is wonderful. But you know, same here. 00:03:34.189 --> 00:03:37.030 I thought this idea is so good that I just have 00:03:37.030 --> 00:03:41.430 to give it a try. So it was a combination of 00:03:42.209 --> 00:03:45.789 decisions and factors beyond my control. And, 00:03:45.830 --> 00:03:47.849 um, I don't know, curiosity, at least, you know, 00:03:47.849 --> 00:03:50.189 at least I won't have that regret, uh, the moment 00:03:50.189 --> 00:03:52.849 I'm dying. It's like whether it works or not. 00:03:52.849 --> 00:03:54.629 And of course I hope it does. I'll be like, well, 00:03:54.629 --> 00:03:58.229 at least I tried. And what, what is it that's 00:03:58.229 --> 00:04:01.449 tell you honest about it? Pardon? What does you 00:04:01.449 --> 00:04:04.610 start up to exactly? All right. Okay. So, um, 00:04:04.689 --> 00:04:07.750 for those, uh, for those who haven't, uh, hear 00:04:07.750 --> 00:04:10.229 me pitch at, at one of your, um, your event, 00:04:10.550 --> 00:04:13.840 Ricardo, it's, um, What Fastly does, it detects 00:04:13.840 --> 00:04:16.079 accounting anomalies in financial statements 00:04:16.079 --> 00:04:18.959 instantly using a combination of rules -based 00:04:18.959 --> 00:04:21.439 and machine learning at a fraction of the fraction 00:04:21.439 --> 00:04:24.040 of cost of current alternatives such as Big Four. 00:04:24.139 --> 00:04:28.279 Okay. That's quite impressive. So how does it 00:04:28.279 --> 00:04:31.959 work? Can you integrate with any existing financial 00:04:31.959 --> 00:04:34.939 software? Is this a standalone solution? No, 00:04:34.939 --> 00:04:38.000 this is totally standalone and probably intentionally 00:04:38.000 --> 00:04:40.480 because we don't, you know, having worked in 00:04:40.480 --> 00:04:44.709 enterprise, the procurement process sometimes 00:04:44.709 --> 00:04:46.910 lasts longer than many startups exist. So we 00:04:46.910 --> 00:04:48.790 don't necessarily want to take this road. No, 00:04:49.329 --> 00:04:53.149 the underpinning of it is fresh take on the concept 00:04:53.149 --> 00:04:57.149 of financial statement audit analysis and due 00:04:57.149 --> 00:05:00.189 diligence coupled with some really clever accounting 00:05:00.189 --> 00:05:05.610 science. So what we do is we take audited financial 00:05:05.610 --> 00:05:08.509 statements as filed with some sort of national 00:05:08.509 --> 00:05:11.360 body. So in the UK, that's company's house. And 00:05:11.360 --> 00:05:13.560 most countries have their equivalents. So these 00:05:13.560 --> 00:05:17.860 statements are publicly available. And what we 00:05:17.860 --> 00:05:22.040 do is we put the companies in like for like clusters 00:05:22.040 --> 00:05:25.560 of companies that follow similar business activities. 00:05:25.600 --> 00:05:29.680 And it's not entirely based on the SIG code or 00:05:29.680 --> 00:05:31.579 any other sector code. It's actually based on 00:05:31.579 --> 00:05:34.759 the activity. This is where our IP and machine 00:05:34.759 --> 00:05:37.259 learning come into play. And then we look at 00:05:37.259 --> 00:05:40.040 a couple of key metrics on the financial statements 00:05:40.040 --> 00:05:42.959 and compared the particular company, you know, 00:05:43.120 --> 00:05:46.540 company X against its peer group. And we show 00:05:46.540 --> 00:05:49.600 statistical outliers, the ones that are likely 00:05:49.600 --> 00:05:53.560 to be so much of an outlier that it's attention 00:05:53.560 --> 00:05:55.819 worthy. It's not that somebody is, you know, 00:05:56.120 --> 00:05:59.959 one or 2 % deviating from its cluster mean. It's 00:05:59.959 --> 00:06:02.360 like somebody who is one or one and a half standard 00:06:02.360 --> 00:06:05.420 deviations away. And of course, that can be indicative 00:06:05.420 --> 00:06:08.819 of different things. So many times it can be 00:06:08.819 --> 00:06:11.079 a very good indication of potential accounting 00:06:11.079 --> 00:06:14.600 irregularities. And this was part of our pre 00:06:14.600 --> 00:06:16.660 -launch research. In the UK, we have this body 00:06:16.660 --> 00:06:20.019 called Financial Reporting Council, which is 00:06:20.019 --> 00:06:22.620 a regulator of sorts toward the audit profession. 00:06:23.180 --> 00:06:26.560 And whenever there is an accounting or audit 00:06:26.560 --> 00:06:29.740 issue or scandal, they investigate it and then 00:06:29.740 --> 00:06:32.439 they decide whether it was really a failure in 00:06:32.439 --> 00:06:36.500 the audit process or not. And in the past several 00:06:36.500 --> 00:06:39.879 years, they took on I think about 60 or 70 cases, 00:06:39.980 --> 00:06:41.879 some of which ended up with the ruling that it 00:06:41.879 --> 00:06:45.680 was genuine failure of audit process and some 00:06:45.680 --> 00:06:49.199 of them not. And every company that got in some 00:06:49.199 --> 00:06:52.120 sort of trouble for Aurelian, Patisserie Valérie, 00:06:52.199 --> 00:06:55.480 or many others, you know, our system just flags 00:06:55.480 --> 00:06:58.560 it up. It goes, no, it's not just one red flag, 00:06:58.699 --> 00:07:01.199 it's several. So there is, you know, there is 00:07:01.199 --> 00:07:05.259 very strong back -tested rigor to it. And the 00:07:05.259 --> 00:07:07.120 other thing that it picks up is also companies 00:07:07.120 --> 00:07:10.560 where there is no irregularity per se, but it's 00:07:10.560 --> 00:07:13.980 just good companies that run into genuine trouble. 00:07:14.480 --> 00:07:16.899 So the good example here could be made .com, 00:07:17.379 --> 00:07:19.100 which some of you may remember from the lockdown 00:07:19.100 --> 00:07:23.300 times, they were very, very popular for about 00:07:23.300 --> 00:07:27.860 a year or two. They were making bespoke home 00:07:27.860 --> 00:07:30.120 furnitures, particularly sofas. And there was 00:07:30.120 --> 00:07:32.459 a time when their sofas were really, really popular 00:07:32.459 --> 00:07:35.180 and no, they were cool. They were funky. It was 00:07:35.180 --> 00:07:39.240 like IKEA, but cool. But as lockdowns ended, 00:07:39.519 --> 00:07:41.740 people resumed much more buying on the high street, 00:07:41.899 --> 00:07:43.980 which made .com wasn't entirely prepared for, 00:07:44.040 --> 00:07:46.540 and the company ran into very serious trouble. 00:07:46.540 --> 00:07:48.779 And I think it's been liquidated now and whatever 00:07:48.779 --> 00:07:52.040 was left was acquired by Next. So we would pick 00:07:52.040 --> 00:07:53.959 up on this as well, which is why we use the term 00:07:53.959 --> 00:07:56.019 anomaly. So it's not like everything we pick 00:07:56.019 --> 00:08:00.850 up is a fraud. What we pick up is something that 00:08:00.850 --> 00:08:03.589 should be paid attention to by a professional 00:08:03.589 --> 00:08:07.410 auditor or by due diligence people. Thanks. So 00:08:07.410 --> 00:08:08.829 there's actually quite a lot of potential for 00:08:08.829 --> 00:08:12.089 it because obviously there's the people who should 00:08:12.089 --> 00:08:13.990 be looking at these things, but there's also 00:08:13.990 --> 00:08:16.389 investors and the likes, right? If they can have 00:08:16.389 --> 00:08:18.970 that data, then they can make a better informed 00:08:18.970 --> 00:08:21.089 decision of if they're going to invest or not, 00:08:21.290 --> 00:08:23.850 if it's a stable company or not, right? Yes. 00:08:23.930 --> 00:08:26.509 Thank you. So indeed we're on. quite hopeful 00:08:26.509 --> 00:08:31.850 it has potential. So there are two primary target 00:08:31.850 --> 00:08:34.049 groups that we're aiming for. So the first one 00:08:34.049 --> 00:08:37.529 is audit and audit -adjacent people, where the 00:08:37.529 --> 00:08:39.669 system, it's not about replacing anyone, by the 00:08:39.669 --> 00:08:41.450 way, it's not one of these cases, you know, people 00:08:41.450 --> 00:08:43.950 versus AI. I don't even believe in that. And 00:08:43.950 --> 00:08:45.909 the research doesn't really corroborate that 00:08:45.909 --> 00:08:49.289 very well either in the academia. It's more about 00:08:49.289 --> 00:08:52.590 helping spot those irregularities to save auditors 00:08:52.590 --> 00:08:55.759 a lot of time. So it's still. They still need 00:08:55.759 --> 00:08:59.500 to filter them through their knowledge and experience 00:08:59.500 --> 00:09:01.639 and investigate them. It's just, we show you, 00:09:01.940 --> 00:09:04.559 this is where you should probably pay your attention 00:09:04.559 --> 00:09:07.000 to. And the other side of the market, which is 00:09:07.000 --> 00:09:10.139 the one that seems to be very proactively approaching 00:09:10.139 --> 00:09:12.480 as people who get, who get usually sold on the 00:09:12.480 --> 00:09:14.840 system very, very, or in the concept, almost 00:09:14.840 --> 00:09:17.159 on the spot is people on the investment side 00:09:17.159 --> 00:09:19.320 and particularly in the private investment space. 00:09:19.720 --> 00:09:21.799 So private equity, private credit, those people 00:09:21.799 --> 00:09:25.070 that need to analyzed a lot of companies, including 00:09:25.070 --> 00:09:28.210 private ones. Because if you're thinking about 00:09:28.210 --> 00:09:31.110 acquiring a company or extending credit to them 00:09:31.110 --> 00:09:33.970 or engaging in any business to them, you should 00:09:33.970 --> 00:09:37.649 be able to ascertain their financial stability 00:09:37.649 --> 00:09:40.450 as best as you can. And the truth is that unless 00:09:40.450 --> 00:09:44.649 you're a putsy 100 or, you know, one of the really, 00:09:44.649 --> 00:09:46.710 really big companies, there's not even that much 00:09:46.710 --> 00:09:49.370 research coverage on listed companies and there's 00:09:49.370 --> 00:09:52.169 nothing at all on private ones. So it's filling 00:09:52.169 --> 00:09:54.850 that void. That makes a lot of sense. And you 00:09:54.850 --> 00:09:57.950 know, going back to your, your change in careers 00:09:57.950 --> 00:10:00.669 and lifestyles, how was it? It must have been 00:10:00.669 --> 00:10:02.370 quite a challenge, you know, going from, you 00:10:02.370 --> 00:10:04.250 know, very nice corporate job to then launching 00:10:04.250 --> 00:10:07.669 your own startup. What type of changes have you 00:10:07.669 --> 00:10:10.070 had in your mindset and your way of doing things 00:10:10.070 --> 00:10:12.990 from one job to the other? Okay. So first of 00:10:12.990 --> 00:10:15.470 all, in the, you know, in the name of being completely 00:10:15.470 --> 00:10:18.730 honest, it was a very nicely paying job, whether 00:10:18.730 --> 00:10:20.720 it was. particularly my last one there, it was 00:10:20.720 --> 00:10:23.299 very nice per se. Um, we will save that for, 00:10:23.299 --> 00:10:25.440 for another conversation, probably with a therapist 00:10:25.440 --> 00:10:28.600 in the room. So, you know, Ricardo, I don't know 00:10:28.600 --> 00:10:30.480 whether it's just me and I don't want to sound 00:10:30.480 --> 00:10:33.320 pompous, but it's really like a very different 00:10:33.320 --> 00:10:35.399 life experience. I mean, I, I appreciate that 00:10:35.399 --> 00:10:39.139 it sounds like very sort of new age or whatnot, 00:10:39.139 --> 00:10:41.840 but it really is. So, you know, the first thing 00:10:41.840 --> 00:10:44.860 you notice very, very quickly is, you know, where's 00:10:44.860 --> 00:10:47.899 my income? You know, that one you pick on very, 00:10:47.940 --> 00:10:51.000 very quickly and. My advice to all the founders 00:10:51.000 --> 00:10:53.879 and I appreciate it. It's the kind of advice 00:10:53.879 --> 00:10:56.919 that's easier to give than take is you must have 00:10:56.919 --> 00:10:59.639 some savings. You must have something to live 00:10:59.639 --> 00:11:01.899 off when you launch your startup. And I'm not 00:11:01.899 --> 00:11:04.120 even talking about investing this money in startup. 00:11:04.220 --> 00:11:06.879 I'm talking about the money to pay your rent 00:11:06.879 --> 00:11:10.559 or mortgage and your groceries. You know, that 00:11:10.559 --> 00:11:15.259 myth about a broke founder. It's a myth. Everybody 00:11:15.259 --> 00:11:18.580 needs to do their food shopping. So. You know, 00:11:18.639 --> 00:11:20.139 that's, that's something I feel very strongly 00:11:20.139 --> 00:11:22.059 about. So that you notice immediately. It's like, 00:11:22.080 --> 00:11:23.980 oh, you know, the money is still outgoing, but 00:11:23.980 --> 00:11:26.179 it's not incoming. That's a very unpleasant feeling. 00:11:27.100 --> 00:11:29.279 But you know, Ricardo, it really is kind of like, 00:11:29.279 --> 00:11:33.500 you know, going to bed, a human and waking up 00:11:33.500 --> 00:11:35.779 something like a dolphin, you know, you're still 00:11:35.779 --> 00:11:39.059 a mammal, but it's a completely different environment, 00:11:39.419 --> 00:11:42.779 completely different experience. Everything is 00:11:42.779 --> 00:11:46.309 different. It's really quite difficult to put 00:11:46.309 --> 00:11:50.090 in words, at least for me. Are you happy? Are 00:11:50.090 --> 00:11:52.950 you happier now that you're a dolphin using the 00:11:52.950 --> 00:11:55.669 same? You know, I'll be, I'll be happier when 00:11:55.669 --> 00:11:58.429 I'm a funded dolphin or, you know, comfortably 00:11:58.429 --> 00:12:00.950 funded dolphin, but, you know, it's my decision. 00:12:01.169 --> 00:12:03.990 I own it. And I'm, I'm certainly not, not ready 00:12:03.990 --> 00:12:06.850 to throw in the towel yet. It's, um, you know, 00:12:06.970 --> 00:12:09.809 it takes a pair of really big ovaries to start 00:12:09.809 --> 00:12:12.389 up, to, to set out on your own. And I have such 00:12:12.389 --> 00:12:15.169 enormous respect for everyone who does because 00:12:15.169 --> 00:12:18.730 it is an act of monumental courage and audacity. 00:12:18.730 --> 00:12:22.730 And to some extent it requires a delusional level 00:12:22.730 --> 00:12:25.450 of self -belief because statistically the odds 00:12:25.450 --> 00:12:28.990 are, the odds are against us. So it's, it's a 00:12:28.990 --> 00:12:32.580 cliche and a patronizing one, but It isn't for 00:12:32.580 --> 00:12:34.919 everyone and there's nothing wrong with that. 00:12:34.960 --> 00:12:40.120 You need to have something in you to do it because 00:12:40.120 --> 00:12:42.759 it's not about intellect. I knew it even beforehand, 00:12:42.759 --> 00:12:44.679 but I know it even more profoundly, Ricardo. 00:12:45.159 --> 00:12:47.500 It's not about your brain. It's about your stomach. 00:12:47.799 --> 00:12:52.139 You know, how many unreplied emails from VCs 00:12:52.139 --> 00:12:55.779 can you handle? How many, how many calls with 00:12:55.779 --> 00:12:58.460 VCs that end up in 15 minutes that you just know 00:12:58.460 --> 00:13:02.620 were unsuccessful? You know, all these kinds 00:13:02.620 --> 00:13:05.080 of things, how many events can you go to and, 00:13:05.139 --> 00:13:07.500 you know, sort of bear your soul in, in front 00:13:07.500 --> 00:13:09.720 of complete strangers as people do at the startup 00:13:09.720 --> 00:13:14.899 events? You know, it's, um, it's, it's not, it's 00:13:14.899 --> 00:13:17.620 not just about the intellect. Trust me. I know 00:13:17.620 --> 00:13:20.279 that. Yeah. I 100 % agree with you. It's about 00:13:20.279 --> 00:13:23.740 the gut you have and that your resilience and 00:13:23.740 --> 00:13:25.519 your ability to keep on pushing forward when 00:13:25.519 --> 00:13:27.700 everything keeps on failing. And you think, no, 00:13:27.700 --> 00:13:29.659 no, I still think this is going to work. Of course, 00:13:29.700 --> 00:13:31.840 you take on the feedback because you always must 00:13:31.840 --> 00:13:33.720 take on the feedback, right? There's no way around 00:13:33.720 --> 00:13:35.720 that. But you take on the feedback and think, 00:13:35.799 --> 00:13:37.720 okay, we can still push forward. So that's that 00:13:37.720 --> 00:13:40.980 whole different type of craziness mindset, if 00:13:40.980 --> 00:13:43.659 you want to call it. But ultimately that's how 00:13:43.659 --> 00:13:46.240 progress is done, right? If you think about, 00:13:46.240 --> 00:13:49.500 you know, great human inventions. Let's take 00:13:49.500 --> 00:13:51.759 the light bulb, for example. There's a whole 00:13:51.759 --> 00:13:54.049 story. Thomas Edison was writing down, okay, 00:13:54.090 --> 00:13:56.629 I've found 10 ,000 ways of not making a light 00:13:56.629 --> 00:13:58.190 bulb. And it's kind of like that when you're 00:13:58.190 --> 00:13:59.950 starting a business, isn't it? So it's a big, 00:13:59.950 --> 00:14:02.950 big challenge. Well, you know, I mean, um, I 00:14:02.950 --> 00:14:04.389 think that there is a school of thought that 00:14:04.389 --> 00:14:06.549 Edison actually shamelessly stole the idea from 00:14:06.549 --> 00:14:09.529 Nikola Tesla, but not for the light bulb. I don't 00:14:09.529 --> 00:14:11.330 think for the, I think for a lot, the currents 00:14:11.330 --> 00:14:13.750 and stuff like that, there's obviously Tesla 00:14:13.750 --> 00:14:16.370 worked for him. Cause at the time there was a 00:14:16.370 --> 00:14:18.929 controversy between AC or DC, which one to use. 00:14:19.370 --> 00:14:21.309 And in fact, if you still go to New York to this 00:14:21.309 --> 00:14:25.600 day, They still use, if I'm not mistaken, DC, 00:14:25.820 --> 00:14:28.559 where they should be using AC. So DC works quite 00:14:28.559 --> 00:14:31.480 well for small distances, but doesn't work well 00:14:31.480 --> 00:14:33.600 for long distances. Or it could be the other 00:14:33.600 --> 00:14:35.639 way around, but that's kind of it. And Edison 00:14:35.639 --> 00:14:37.679 believed that it should work the one for the 00:14:37.679 --> 00:14:39.299 small distances. So when you go to New York, 00:14:39.679 --> 00:14:42.580 you still have the Edison power plants that only 00:14:42.580 --> 00:14:44.460 work and they work well, but they only work for 00:14:44.460 --> 00:14:47.080 small distances, not for long distances. So Tesla 00:14:47.080 --> 00:14:50.039 ultimately was right. Edison was wrong, but time 00:14:50.039 --> 00:14:53.980 proved it. But I was about to ask one thing, 00:14:54.039 --> 00:14:56.279 which is how do you deal with all these tough 00:14:56.279 --> 00:14:58.700 challenges that, that you face as a founder? 00:15:01.840 --> 00:15:04.759 Well, that's okay. That's an honest answer. I 00:15:04.759 --> 00:15:08.039 mean, you know, Ricardo, I've in my past life 00:15:08.039 --> 00:15:11.559 I've been on, you know, side of the desk, a mental 00:15:11.559 --> 00:15:13.419 health advocate. And that has, that is always 00:15:13.419 --> 00:15:16.220 something that I felt very strongly about. So 00:15:16.220 --> 00:15:19.179 I don't want to give like a one -liner cliche 00:15:19.179 --> 00:15:25.470 reply. First of all, I strongly advise anyone 00:15:25.470 --> 00:15:30.690 against doing things solo because that is nigh 00:15:30.690 --> 00:15:33.289 on impossible. And it's not because somebody 00:15:33.289 --> 00:15:36.029 doesn't have sufficient intellectual aptitude. 00:15:36.070 --> 00:15:39.629 I just don't think there's very many people can 00:15:39.629 --> 00:15:43.669 manage the amount of resilience, can master that 00:15:43.669 --> 00:15:45.409 amount of resilience that it takes. You know, 00:15:45.509 --> 00:15:48.330 some days you carry your partner, some days your 00:15:48.330 --> 00:15:51.539 partners carry you. I think that. When you only 00:15:51.539 --> 00:15:53.899 have yourself to carry, this challenge might 00:15:53.899 --> 00:15:57.980 be just too much for anyone's soul and stomach 00:15:57.980 --> 00:16:03.139 to succeed. So my advice for anyone is it's better 00:16:03.139 --> 00:16:05.639 to consider it a team sport. And of course, try 00:16:05.639 --> 00:16:09.940 to, try to choose your team wisely. And I think 00:16:09.940 --> 00:16:15.240 that the other thing is I think it's one thing 00:16:15.240 --> 00:16:18.000 to love your idea. And it's quite different to 00:16:18.000 --> 00:16:20.960 be in love with your idea. And we see this at 00:16:20.960 --> 00:16:23.159 events sometimes, you know, Ricardo, you have 00:16:23.159 --> 00:16:25.799 sometimes 20 to 30 pitches at the startup event. 00:16:26.799 --> 00:16:29.899 And most of the people there are perfectly down 00:16:29.899 --> 00:16:34.679 to earth and flexible, but there is a subgroup 00:16:34.679 --> 00:16:38.559 of founders who are so obsessively in love with 00:16:38.559 --> 00:16:41.279 their idea that they're not interested in any 00:16:41.279 --> 00:16:44.600 feedback from anyone because they reinvented 00:16:44.600 --> 00:16:47.740 perfection. And they don't want to hear a single 00:16:47.740 --> 00:16:51.019 word about it. So I, I kinda advise against that 00:16:51.019 --> 00:16:54.340 because even if you have a really great idea, 00:16:54.779 --> 00:16:56.700 somebody can just make it a little bit better. 00:16:56.840 --> 00:16:59.659 It's really not, you know, not going to diminish 00:16:59.659 --> 00:17:02.740 anybody's abilities or anybody's credit if you 00:17:02.740 --> 00:17:05.900 take a little bit of feedback. So, so there's 00:17:05.900 --> 00:17:08.599 definitely that. Not taking things personally 00:17:08.599 --> 00:17:11.359 helps, but it's not something I'm particularly 00:17:11.359 --> 00:17:13.839 good at. I take weather personally, I take everything 00:17:13.839 --> 00:17:17.809 personally, but My co -founder, I'm exceptionally 00:17:17.809 --> 00:17:20.869 lucky in that respect. He is a seasoned entrepreneur 00:17:20.869 --> 00:17:24.269 and he's been doing this for several years. And 00:17:24.269 --> 00:17:27.950 he told me actually just yesterday is after you 00:17:27.950 --> 00:17:31.410 face the abyss a couple of times, you get used 00:17:31.410 --> 00:17:33.089 to it. I'm like, well, you know, I'm facing the 00:17:33.089 --> 00:17:35.170 abyss for the first time. So thank you for the 00:17:35.170 --> 00:17:38.509 thumbs up. So my advice, which I think is a little 00:17:38.509 --> 00:17:43.930 bit idealistic is just try to build. The dream 00:17:43.930 --> 00:17:46.029 team around you and I don't mean it has to be 00:17:46.029 --> 00:17:49.710 very many people two or three is four is probably 00:17:49.710 --> 00:17:54.650 ideal size for a startup and I have this personal 00:17:54.650 --> 00:17:57.630 belief that If you have people around you who 00:17:57.630 --> 00:18:01.069 just work and click with you, then if one idea 00:18:01.069 --> 00:18:04.470 falls You can just pick yourself up and start 00:18:04.470 --> 00:18:08.130 with another one if your team collapses You're 00:18:08.130 --> 00:18:11.049 left with nothing. No startup. No idea and probably, 00:18:11.130 --> 00:18:14.880 you know adverse, adversely affected mental health. 00:18:15.759 --> 00:18:18.039 So, and you know, it's such a, such an easy advice 00:18:18.039 --> 00:18:19.819 to give, you know, find yourself a good team, 00:18:20.099 --> 00:18:23.240 but, uh, that's, that's, that's what I think 00:18:23.240 --> 00:18:27.519 maximizes your chances of, um, of making it through 00:18:27.519 --> 00:18:30.680 and having, you know, having team resilience 00:18:30.680 --> 00:18:33.700 that is greater than any individual's resilience. 00:18:34.900 --> 00:18:36.720 And what do you do personally when you're having 00:18:36.720 --> 00:18:40.160 a really bad day? When nothing seems to go your 00:18:40.160 --> 00:18:43.660 way? By the way, bad day can be bad weeks. Oh, 00:18:43.660 --> 00:18:46.660 okay. So what do you do to get you back on track 00:18:46.660 --> 00:18:48.920 and get you back on that, you know, founder mentality 00:18:48.920 --> 00:18:50.859 and making sure that you keep on pushing forward? 00:18:51.640 --> 00:18:54.079 So first of all, you know, a bad day can be a 00:18:54.079 --> 00:18:57.000 bad week, can be a bad month or an overall terrible 00:18:57.000 --> 00:19:00.400 2024. I mean, I don't know a single person who 00:19:00.400 --> 00:19:03.160 would say, yeah, 2024 was the year to live. I 00:19:03.160 --> 00:19:05.319 mean, you know, being, you know, surviving through 00:19:05.319 --> 00:19:07.900 2024 for anyone seems like an extreme sport. 00:19:08.259 --> 00:19:11.200 It's really not the best year on record. I don't 00:19:11.200 --> 00:19:15.319 have any great advice. What I do, I just, I'm 00:19:15.319 --> 00:19:17.940 not lying to anyone, least of all myself. It's 00:19:17.940 --> 00:19:19.960 fine. It's awesome. No, I'm actually, no, it's 00:19:19.960 --> 00:19:22.700 not fine at all. It's, it's, it's terrible. So 00:19:22.700 --> 00:19:25.319 at least I, I'm not bottling things inside and 00:19:25.319 --> 00:19:28.119 you know, you can still do things when you're 00:19:28.119 --> 00:19:31.200 not feeling great. It's, uh, I, I'm not trying 00:19:31.200 --> 00:19:33.680 to be like, oh, you know, I'm going to, it's 00:19:33.680 --> 00:19:35.759 been an absolutely terrible, I don't know, year, 00:19:36.359 --> 00:19:39.230 but I'm going to bring myself up, you know, play 00:19:39.230 --> 00:19:41.650 Gloria Gaynors, I will survive and, and, you 00:19:41.650 --> 00:19:44.990 know, look my best. No, you just have to... Good 00:19:44.990 --> 00:19:48.269 choice. Thank you. If you can't run, it's, you 00:19:48.269 --> 00:19:50.069 know, it's like what Celine Dion said in her 00:19:50.069 --> 00:19:52.950 documentary recently. If at some point you can't 00:19:52.950 --> 00:19:56.430 run, just crawl. And, you know, I don't want 00:19:56.430 --> 00:19:58.990 to sort of exaggerate with comparisons with somebody 00:19:58.990 --> 00:20:01.309 who's suffering from a very serious medical condition. 00:20:01.670 --> 00:20:04.029 It's, it's about the principle, right? At least 00:20:04.029 --> 00:20:06.329 I'm not... I'm trying to be honest with myself 00:20:06.329 --> 00:20:08.589 and people around me. It's like, are things great? 00:20:08.710 --> 00:20:11.609 No. But I will still, you know, I still have 00:20:11.609 --> 00:20:17.789 my to -do list. Yes. I will do as much as I can. 00:20:17.990 --> 00:20:21.069 And also there's the thing, which is a cliche 00:20:21.069 --> 00:20:24.269 of cliches. It's my body. Okay. Oh my God. That 00:20:24.269 --> 00:20:28.089 sounds so pretentious, but, um, if I feel exhausted, 00:20:28.650 --> 00:20:31.490 I will just go to sleep and I don't care whether 00:20:31.490 --> 00:20:35.440 it's, uh, 5 p .m. Or 5 a .m. Because I'm actually 00:20:35.440 --> 00:20:38.019 a night person. I will just get a couple of hours 00:20:38.019 --> 00:20:40.339 of sleep. That really makes such a monumental 00:20:40.339 --> 00:20:42.819 difference. It puts a little bit of distance 00:20:42.819 --> 00:20:45.880 between the last thing that upset me. It's like 00:20:45.880 --> 00:20:49.359 a little bit of a tiny fresh start. You know, 00:20:49.359 --> 00:20:53.759 and also be sort of be realistic and compassionate 00:20:53.759 --> 00:20:57.480 with one another. If like some days, fortunately 00:20:57.480 --> 00:20:59.720 it doesn't happen very often, but I feel, you 00:20:59.720 --> 00:21:02.630 know, there's so many adversities like I can't 00:21:02.630 --> 00:21:07.170 do this today, then I don't. I just catch up 00:21:07.170 --> 00:21:10.930 on sleep and I, you know, I'm overwhelmed today, 00:21:10.930 --> 00:21:13.109 but I will be a little more stronger tomorrow 00:21:13.109 --> 00:21:17.150 and I just pick up the following day. Maybe that's 00:21:17.150 --> 00:21:19.650 the first lesson an entrepreneur needs to find 00:21:19.650 --> 00:21:22.069 out by themselves, which is when you move from 00:21:22.069 --> 00:21:25.569 a corporate job, you have deadlines and there's 00:21:25.569 --> 00:21:27.670 someone who's always managing you regardless 00:21:27.670 --> 00:21:29.190 of what position you're in unless you're the 00:21:29.190 --> 00:21:32.390 CEO. But then even a CEO needs to be accountable 00:21:32.390 --> 00:21:35.009 for the investors and stockholders out of the 00:21:35.009 --> 00:21:37.869 board. And then you know you need to do stuff 00:21:37.869 --> 00:21:40.190 to keep on doing things. Whereas as an entrepreneur, 00:21:40.809 --> 00:21:43.009 you focus on doing the stuff you need to do, 00:21:43.009 --> 00:21:45.710 but at the best time possible. And if that means 00:21:45.710 --> 00:21:49.650 you need to go for a little nap or sleep or exercise 00:21:49.650 --> 00:21:52.750 or have a drink and talk with some friends, that's 00:21:52.750 --> 00:21:54.609 okay. Because the next time you pick up that 00:21:54.609 --> 00:21:56.109 task, you're going to be full on, you're going 00:21:56.109 --> 00:21:59.230 to be able to deliver. So I think that's... It's 00:21:59.230 --> 00:22:00.950 a hard lesson to learn, but at the same time, 00:22:01.049 --> 00:22:03.809 when people stop feeling guilty about it, the 00:22:03.809 --> 00:22:05.950 better it is, right? Cause we just, we're human, 00:22:05.990 --> 00:22:09.410 everyone needs to do that. I generally think 00:22:09.410 --> 00:22:13.710 that starting as a founder, particularly as a 00:22:13.710 --> 00:22:18.269 first time is, is a very introspective and self 00:22:18.269 --> 00:22:21.849 -learning experience because it is so profoundly 00:22:21.849 --> 00:22:25.369 different to salaried employment. It's, you know, 00:22:25.369 --> 00:22:27.480 it's really like, you know, go to bed a human, 00:22:27.559 --> 00:22:29.339 wake up a dolphin. There's, there's a lot of, 00:22:29.339 --> 00:22:34.160 there's a lot, there's a lot to learn. So I suspect 00:22:34.160 --> 00:22:36.480 from observation and sort of from, from culture 00:22:36.480 --> 00:22:39.380 that some founders, particularly men, make this 00:22:39.380 --> 00:22:43.579 mistake of being their own slave driver. You 00:22:43.579 --> 00:22:46.059 know, if you don't work 16 hours per day, you're 00:22:46.059 --> 00:22:48.980 not, you're not trying hard enough. And it takes 00:22:48.980 --> 00:22:51.579 a certain age and a certain, you know, set of 00:22:51.579 --> 00:22:53.900 five experience to realize that it's completely 00:22:53.900 --> 00:22:57.420 and utterly false. You know, Less is actually 00:22:57.420 --> 00:22:59.940 more with work as well, because I know that when 00:22:59.940 --> 00:23:02.259 I'm rested, I can work like a machine, like a 00:23:02.259 --> 00:23:05.660 terminator. And I don't need to put in 16 hours 00:23:05.660 --> 00:23:08.220 because I wouldn't be able on that level. I put 00:23:08.220 --> 00:23:12.339 in six and I'm, and you know, I'm, um, Any productive 00:23:12.339 --> 00:23:14.880 on the six hours. I think there's actually, there's 00:23:14.880 --> 00:23:18.940 something called flow. I think it's a book or 00:23:18.940 --> 00:23:21.079 a study, I don't recall that correctly, actually 00:23:21.079 --> 00:23:24.160 by Polish -American, fun fact. And they measure 00:23:24.160 --> 00:23:26.680 two workers, one at a factory that would work 00:23:26.680 --> 00:23:29.359 eight hours a day straight on, the other that 00:23:29.359 --> 00:23:31.559 would work on floor states. So they would work 00:23:31.559 --> 00:23:33.980 standing up, then they would sit down, rest, 00:23:34.299 --> 00:23:36.640 then they'll get up again, then they sit down 00:23:36.640 --> 00:23:38.480 and rest, so forth, so on. And what they found 00:23:38.480 --> 00:23:40.900 out was actually quite impressive. Even though 00:23:40.900 --> 00:23:44.619 the standing worker had supposedly the same number 00:23:44.619 --> 00:23:47.220 of things to do. He did less than the one who 00:23:47.220 --> 00:23:49.380 was taking small breaks in between. And then 00:23:49.380 --> 00:23:52.140 they found that when you work on your flow state 00:23:52.140 --> 00:23:55.539 and you work at your optimal capacity, you actually 00:23:55.539 --> 00:23:58.079 end up doing a lot more stuff, even though it 00:23:58.079 --> 00:23:59.480 seems like, why are they resting now? They should 00:23:59.480 --> 00:24:02.160 be working. Actually, no. If you work super hard 00:24:02.160 --> 00:24:03.599 when you're supposed to be working super hard 00:24:03.599 --> 00:24:05.720 and then rest afterwards, you get a lot more 00:24:05.720 --> 00:24:08.000 stuff done. But it's hard getting to that stage, 00:24:08.000 --> 00:24:10.859 right? It's quite a challenge. I do agree. And 00:24:10.859 --> 00:24:12.440 funny that you should mention this. Like I've 00:24:12.440 --> 00:24:14.900 literally just today finished this book. What's 00:24:14.900 --> 00:24:19.039 the book? title scarcity and it's, um, it takes 00:24:19.039 --> 00:24:20.640 some of the concepts you've mentioned a little 00:24:20.640 --> 00:24:23.619 further. It really expands on the concept of 00:24:23.619 --> 00:24:26.299 bandwidth, which all of us understand intuitively. 00:24:26.799 --> 00:24:31.079 Um, and also slack as in having intentional free 00:24:31.079 --> 00:24:34.839 space to absorb shocks that will invariably comes. 00:24:35.460 --> 00:24:37.299 You know, it's one of the trillion things that 00:24:37.299 --> 00:24:40.539 any entrepreneur or, or even, you know, a self 00:24:40.539 --> 00:24:44.339 -employed person needs to learn because For me 00:24:44.339 --> 00:24:46.819 to work like my preferred hours are night hours, 00:24:46.859 --> 00:24:49.460 which you know was was perfectly fine in corporate 00:24:49.460 --> 00:24:52.000 You know, it was net benefit of the company if 00:24:52.000 --> 00:24:55.079 I worked at 3 a .m But I was still expected to 00:24:55.079 --> 00:24:57.140 show up at 9 a .m Which didn't work out terribly 00:24:57.140 --> 00:25:01.140 well for me. So now I can work until 5 6 or 7 00:25:01.140 --> 00:25:04.099 a .m But after that I go to sleep. So I operate 00:25:04.099 --> 00:25:07.980 probably on like Hawaii time or Sydney But you 00:25:07.980 --> 00:25:11.880 know, I work the hours that that work for me 00:25:13.619 --> 00:25:16.480 You just mentioned a book. I'm curious on this. 00:25:18.000 --> 00:25:19.960 What's your latest book that you just mentioned? 00:25:20.339 --> 00:25:22.480 What book do you recommend for people to read? 00:25:23.839 --> 00:25:26.779 Actually, I don't get any commission and it's 00:25:26.779 --> 00:25:29.440 next to me because I just finished it. It's this 00:25:29.440 --> 00:25:31.519 one. It's quite a profound book because it teaches... 00:25:31.519 --> 00:25:33.700 What's the name? It is a podcast. So some people 00:25:33.700 --> 00:25:35.160 will not be looking at the video. So we need 00:25:35.160 --> 00:25:39.059 to tell them. So the book is titled Scarcity 00:25:39.059 --> 00:25:44.939 and the authors are Mulantan and Shafir. And 00:25:44.939 --> 00:25:47.619 it's about something that I was experiencing 00:25:47.619 --> 00:25:52.519 or very aware of since my twenties is that in 00:25:52.519 --> 00:25:55.900 the periods of stress, my mind would feel like 00:25:55.900 --> 00:26:00.339 I'm in a sort of mental headlock. My focus was 00:26:00.339 --> 00:26:04.519 so narrow and short. My memory was so much worse. 00:26:04.759 --> 00:26:07.599 I wasn't able to plan ahead. It was very much, 00:26:07.759 --> 00:26:10.339 you know, how do I make my rent this month? How 00:26:10.339 --> 00:26:14.240 do I fight some fire? I think the first time 00:26:14.240 --> 00:26:19.240 that researchers have looked at what having insufficient 00:26:19.240 --> 00:26:22.759 amount of resources and it can be time or money 00:26:22.759 --> 00:26:28.819 or focus, how debilitating it is and how we tend 00:26:28.819 --> 00:26:31.859 to neglect it because the only luck that we really 00:26:31.859 --> 00:26:36.279 pay attention to in life is money. But it's much 00:26:36.279 --> 00:26:39.170 more complex than that and it shows us that the 00:26:39.170 --> 00:26:41.950 lack of time, money, or in some instances, if 00:26:41.950 --> 00:26:45.329 somebody's on a diet, food, the effect it can 00:26:45.329 --> 00:26:49.390 have on a person's intellect are so profound. 00:26:50.410 --> 00:26:53.049 And you know, it's something I can relate to 00:26:53.049 --> 00:26:55.509 so acutely because even now, I mean, you know, 00:26:55.509 --> 00:26:57.829 I'm operating under the state of acute stress, 00:26:57.970 --> 00:27:00.549 whether I like it or not, my ability to focus 00:27:00.549 --> 00:27:03.640 or plan long -term is so much more limited. And 00:27:03.640 --> 00:27:06.119 when I was making good money working for corporate, 00:27:06.319 --> 00:27:09.680 I obviously hope it won't last forever, but it's 00:27:09.680 --> 00:27:13.059 quite amazing to realize that it's not just me. 00:27:13.259 --> 00:27:16.559 There is scientific research to back it up and 00:27:16.559 --> 00:27:19.980 it sort of changes the way I think about time 00:27:19.980 --> 00:27:22.799 management. What advice would you give to entrepreneurs? 00:27:23.299 --> 00:27:26.140 Now that you've been on a journey, you know, 00:27:26.220 --> 00:27:28.839 people listening in, which hopefully tons of 00:27:28.839 --> 00:27:30.960 them will listen in, what advice would you give 00:27:30.960 --> 00:27:36.039 to them? There are so many and you know, so many 00:27:36.039 --> 00:27:40.319 of them are unoriginal. So my first small personal 00:27:40.319 --> 00:27:44.380 advice is don't fly solo. I mean, I know one 00:27:44.380 --> 00:27:46.819 or two people who are doing it and successfully, 00:27:46.859 --> 00:27:49.740 but I think they're outliers. I strongly believe 00:27:49.740 --> 00:27:53.460 in entrepreneurship being a team sport. I also 00:27:53.460 --> 00:27:56.319 want to, yes, another thing, I think it's a myth. 00:27:56.519 --> 00:27:58.559 Maybe it's not as prevalent now as it was like 00:27:58.559 --> 00:28:02.180 10 or 15 years ago, but I think that most of 00:28:02.180 --> 00:28:04.779 us are seeing that startup needs to be in the 00:28:04.779 --> 00:28:08.619 state of a total of an ongoing boxing match. 00:28:08.900 --> 00:28:11.359 You know, it's like, you know, a shout fest between 00:28:11.359 --> 00:28:14.500 a couple of dudes, you know, whose idea will 00:28:14.500 --> 00:28:16.359 trump the other person's idea. Whereas I think 00:28:16.359 --> 00:28:19.259 that in a startup, it actually really pays to 00:28:19.259 --> 00:28:24.440 be flexible and agreeable. Because almost nothing 00:28:24.440 --> 00:28:28.920 is so important as to risk breaking the team 00:28:28.920 --> 00:28:32.519 over it. It's, but it's also a measure of, of 00:28:32.519 --> 00:28:34.920 a good team. If somebody has, is very binary, 00:28:34.960 --> 00:28:37.500 it's my way or no way. I'm not sure they're, 00:28:37.500 --> 00:28:40.200 they're success material for, for teamwork or 00:28:40.200 --> 00:28:43.059 for, for entrepreneurship. If people are flexible 00:28:43.059 --> 00:28:46.119 and agreeable and not really precious about their 00:28:46.119 --> 00:28:50.640 egos, then I think it, it helps a lot. I don't 00:28:50.640 --> 00:28:52.759 even want to start talking about rejection because 00:28:52.759 --> 00:28:56.640 I could write a book about it, but again, it's 00:28:56.640 --> 00:29:00.680 a cliche, but I don't think that very many people 00:29:00.680 --> 00:29:03.460 out there, except, I don't know, ex -military, 00:29:04.400 --> 00:29:07.160 are really prepared with their stomachs for not 00:29:07.160 --> 00:29:09.059 just the amount of rejection, but mostly the 00:29:09.059 --> 00:29:11.200 amount of ghosting and indifference they will 00:29:11.200 --> 00:29:13.519 face. To get a rejection email is already quite 00:29:13.519 --> 00:29:15.220 successful. It means that somebody actually read 00:29:15.220 --> 00:29:19.200 your email. Whereas I think that 80 % of the 00:29:19.200 --> 00:29:24.189 case, or if not more, you will be just... promptly 00:29:24.189 --> 00:29:26.569 ignored, you know, be, be left in the limbo. 00:29:26.930 --> 00:29:29.250 So, you know, learning to take rejection, I think 00:29:29.250 --> 00:29:32.230 you can only learn it empirically. It's not something 00:29:32.230 --> 00:29:36.490 you can learn from, um, from. Interesting. And, 00:29:36.670 --> 00:29:38.930 you know, as we're nearing the end of the podcast, 00:29:39.109 --> 00:29:41.029 if people want to reach out to you and find out 00:29:41.029 --> 00:29:43.309 more about your company and yourself, how can 00:29:43.309 --> 00:29:46.769 you do so? What's the best way? Okay. So, um, 00:29:46.869 --> 00:29:49.750 the company's website is hasordered .ai. So that's 00:29:49.750 --> 00:29:52.509 the quickest way to, um, to reach us. And my 00:29:52.509 --> 00:29:56.329 contact detail is Wojtek .Buczynski at Fasodet 00:29:56.329 --> 00:29:58.369 .ai, so you probably need to put this in writing 00:29:58.369 --> 00:30:00.609 somewhere, Ricardo, because of the spelling of... 00:30:00.609 --> 00:30:02.930 It shows up on the notes, yeah. ...of my name. 00:30:03.170 --> 00:30:06.750 But also another way to find me, which actually 00:30:06.750 --> 00:30:09.829 some people did, is, you know, one thing that 00:30:09.829 --> 00:30:12.210 is really big in London startup ecosystem is 00:30:12.210 --> 00:30:16.609 the WhatsApp groups, including yours. There's 00:30:16.609 --> 00:30:19.359 a total of... handful of, of WhatsApp groups 00:30:19.359 --> 00:30:21.779 that are usually affiliated to some sort of, 00:30:21.779 --> 00:30:25.000 uh, event series or a group of people such as, 00:30:25.019 --> 00:30:27.920 you know, chief among them being yours. You can 00:30:27.920 --> 00:30:30.240 always use LinkedIn as well, right? Yeah, you 00:30:30.240 --> 00:30:32.200 can. Obviously it's just that once again, the 00:30:32.200 --> 00:30:34.799 spelling of my last name, but I really encourage 00:30:34.799 --> 00:30:37.400 people to make full use of those WhatsApp groups, 00:30:37.700 --> 00:30:39.779 both as, both when it comes to looking for something, 00:30:39.799 --> 00:30:43.099 but also when, if ever you can help someone or 00:30:43.099 --> 00:30:45.960 enable them or answer a question, put in a recommendation 00:30:45.960 --> 00:30:49.440 or No, so many people are trying, you know, really 00:30:49.440 --> 00:30:53.220 pouring their hearts out to, to try get the LinkedIn 00:30:53.220 --> 00:30:55.500 algo on their side. And that, that, you know, 00:30:55.579 --> 00:30:59.119 that algo is, is not always very kind. So it's 00:30:59.119 --> 00:31:00.940 quite routine that people on your group and on 00:31:00.940 --> 00:31:03.279 others put in links to their LinkedIn posts and 00:31:03.279 --> 00:31:05.940 like, no, please show it some love. I mean, that 00:31:05.940 --> 00:31:08.099 is really the cheapest way to earn some good 00:31:08.099 --> 00:31:11.339 karma because if you like somebody's post that 00:31:11.339 --> 00:31:14.140 helps the algo. If you repost it, that helps 00:31:14.140 --> 00:31:17.619 as well. Yep. And there's really a lot of valuable 00:31:17.619 --> 00:31:20.099 activity. And the third thing where you can find 00:31:20.099 --> 00:31:24.079 me is I go to events, like I'm at your event 00:31:24.079 --> 00:31:25.980 almost every time. So, you know, the startup 00:31:25.980 --> 00:31:29.220 events, check it out. And others as well. Again, 00:31:29.339 --> 00:31:31.759 it's not particularly original, but those events, 00:31:32.180 --> 00:31:34.640 some of them really work. I mean, most of them 00:31:34.640 --> 00:31:37.650 because... I think that most people in the startup 00:31:37.650 --> 00:31:40.809 ecosystem are, you know, very, very supportive 00:31:40.809 --> 00:31:43.009 and they almost wear their heart on their sleeve. 00:31:43.210 --> 00:31:45.589 It's generally, you know, in corporate, everyone's 00:31:45.589 --> 00:31:48.869 your competition. In startup, not so much because 00:31:48.869 --> 00:31:51.750 if somebody wants to start, I don't know, a FemTech 00:31:51.750 --> 00:31:54.430 startup or an EdTech startup, they're not my 00:31:54.430 --> 00:31:56.369 competition at all. If there's something I can 00:31:56.369 --> 00:31:59.630 do to help them, I'll be more than happy to. 00:32:00.470 --> 00:32:03.269 All right. Sounds like a plan, I 100 % agree 00:32:03.269 --> 00:32:05.440 with you. Wojtek, thank you so much for your 00:32:05.440 --> 00:32:07.180 time. It's been a pleasure interviewing you. 00:32:07.440 --> 00:32:09.059 Thank you, everyone. Take care. All the best. 00:32:09.059 --> 00:32:33.349 Thank you for having me. Thank you. from grants 00:32:33.349 --> 00:32:35.569 to investors to tips and tricks on how to be 00:32:35.569 --> 00:32:38.490 successful in your startup. This podcast is also 00:32:38.490 --> 00:32:42.069 sponsored by ODEV Tech. ODEV Tech is your premier 00:32:42.069 --> 00:32:44.250 software development partner. Make sure you check 00:32:44.250 --> 00:32:47.170 them out at odev .tech.