WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.859 Welcome to the Innovation Conversation, a podcast 00:00:02.859 --> 00:00:05.419 about innovators, both in business and real life. 00:00:05.879 --> 00:00:08.380 Hosted by myself, Ricardo Rescual and Harry McCona. 00:00:08.480 --> 00:00:11.699 This podcast is also sponsored by ODEV Tech. 00:00:12.439 --> 00:00:14.640 ODEV Tech is your premier software development 00:00:14.640 --> 00:00:18.019 partner. Make sure you check them out at odev 00:00:18.019 --> 00:00:22.399 .tech. The podcast is also sponsored by Notion 00:00:22.399 --> 00:00:25.359 .so. Notion is offering six months for free for 00:00:25.359 --> 00:00:27.839 new users. Make sure you check out our website, 00:00:28.039 --> 00:00:30.579 thestoreofevents .co .uk to read in the software. 00:00:31.679 --> 00:00:34.320 Hi, and welcome to another episode of the Innovation 00:00:34.320 --> 00:00:36.960 Conversation. Today we are joined by Rachel Murphy. 00:00:37.119 --> 00:00:39.840 Rachel, welcome to the podcast. Hey, Ricardo. 00:00:40.399 --> 00:00:42.560 Delighted to... Pleasure having you here, Rachel. 00:00:42.960 --> 00:00:44.539 Would you like to introduce yourself to the audience, 00:00:44.780 --> 00:00:51.020 please? Love to. So my name is Rachel. I am currently 00:00:51.020 --> 00:00:56.280 founder of a... company called The Grafter twice 00:00:56.280 --> 00:01:02.359 exited founder. Previous businesses were both 00:01:02.359 --> 00:01:06.799 in and around healthcare and consultancy. And 00:01:06.799 --> 00:01:08.799 how did it get started? Because it's a very long 00:01:08.799 --> 00:01:10.799 journey. I know you've done quite a lot of stuff. 00:01:10.959 --> 00:01:12.200 You're kind of underplaying it now, but I know 00:01:12.200 --> 00:01:14.980 you have a really history to share with the audience. 00:01:15.239 --> 00:01:17.519 So would you like to tell us a bit more, please? 00:01:17.790 --> 00:01:22.310 Yeah, yeah, of course. So I started, I guess 00:01:22.310 --> 00:01:26.849 I started my career as an interim. So I'd never 00:01:26.849 --> 00:01:29.250 worked permanently for anybody until I built 00:01:29.250 --> 00:01:36.769 a company myself. And my motivation really was 00:01:36.769 --> 00:01:39.909 about getting as many skills as possible from 00:01:39.909 --> 00:01:44.269 a consulting perspective. And so I ended up running 00:01:44.269 --> 00:01:48.230 various programs initially and then entire kind 00:01:48.230 --> 00:01:52.310 of business units and then businesses. So I've 00:01:52.310 --> 00:01:55.709 worked across public and private sector, worked 00:01:55.709 --> 00:02:01.549 for most of the big five and my career started 00:02:01.549 --> 00:02:05.230 probably more on the private sector, done a fair 00:02:05.230 --> 00:02:10.069 bit in telecoms, IT resellers, managed service 00:02:10.069 --> 00:02:17.050 companies. And then I did my first CIO role in 00:02:17.050 --> 00:02:20.909 local government. Many years ago now, about 15 00:02:20.909 --> 00:02:25.229 years ago. And I totally sort of fell in love 00:02:25.229 --> 00:02:28.650 with transforming business units and that got 00:02:28.650 --> 00:02:34.270 bigger and became businesses. Really ended up 00:02:34.270 --> 00:02:38.729 doing was CIO for Department for Education, ran 00:02:38.729 --> 00:02:41.729 these services business for Keir, the construction 00:02:41.729 --> 00:02:46.500 company. Ran the services business for CDW, who 00:02:46.500 --> 00:02:52.159 were an international IT services outfit. And 00:02:52.159 --> 00:02:57.719 then went in and led the patient facing transformation 00:02:57.719 --> 00:03:02.300 of the NHS. So built the NHS and totally fell 00:03:02.300 --> 00:03:06.039 in love with healthcare. It's been quite a journey. 00:03:07.330 --> 00:03:09.330 While a lot of important things, I mean, the 00:03:09.330 --> 00:03:11.530 NHS app is huge, everyone's kind of using it. 00:03:11.530 --> 00:03:14.229 I use it all the time, to be honest. So it's, 00:03:14.229 --> 00:03:16.409 you know, transformative, how many things we 00:03:16.409 --> 00:03:18.250 can actually do. Yeah, it's interesting, Ricardo, 00:03:18.250 --> 00:03:22.030 because I think there's plenty of programs of 00:03:22.030 --> 00:03:24.550 work in government that talk a good game about 00:03:24.550 --> 00:03:28.169 transformation. There's few that are legitimately 00:03:28.169 --> 00:03:36.289 transforming of services. I was reading a YouGov 00:03:36.289 --> 00:03:40.449 poll the other day, and the NHS app is in the 00:03:40.449 --> 00:03:45.689 top 20 apps across the UK that are used, which 00:03:45.689 --> 00:03:48.490 is pretty massive when you think about it, because 00:03:48.490 --> 00:03:52.110 you've got things like WhatsApp on there, Deliveroo, 00:03:52.229 --> 00:03:55.110 so you've got everything on there, but yes, we've 00:03:55.110 --> 00:03:59.689 got 40 million people using the app. It's absolutely 00:03:59.689 --> 00:04:02.590 amazing what you've done. Right now, I know you're 00:04:02.590 --> 00:04:04.949 doing your own thing. So how, how has that transitioned 00:04:04.949 --> 00:04:07.030 from, you know, working for the government, but 00:04:07.030 --> 00:04:09.169 then transitioning to actually running your own 00:04:09.169 --> 00:04:11.330 business, exiting your own business as well? 00:04:11.650 --> 00:04:16.449 How did that happen? So I built and sold my first 00:04:16.449 --> 00:04:20.290 business in my early twenties, and that was definitely 00:04:20.290 --> 00:04:22.949 more luck than judgment. And then kind of went 00:04:22.949 --> 00:04:25.790 back and was consulting again for three years 00:04:25.790 --> 00:04:31.420 after I built the NHS app, nhs .uk. I was pretty 00:04:31.420 --> 00:04:33.600 adamant that a lot of the companies that were 00:04:33.600 --> 00:04:37.579 building services were doing a reasonable job, 00:04:37.579 --> 00:04:40.959 but not a great job for the health service. And 00:04:40.959 --> 00:04:47.439 so I built different and the rationale there 00:04:47.439 --> 00:04:51.279 was I wanted user centered design to sit at the 00:04:51.279 --> 00:04:55.019 heart of what we were doing. And so I built that 00:04:55.019 --> 00:04:58.339 company and sold it within a five year period. 00:04:58.730 --> 00:05:02.370 And then having gone through the process of building 00:05:02.370 --> 00:05:05.589 and selling a couple of companies, I wanted to 00:05:05.589 --> 00:05:08.009 help other entrepreneurs to do that. And that's 00:05:08.009 --> 00:05:12.350 really what led me to building the Grafta. And 00:05:12.350 --> 00:05:16.930 we're now helping founders to grow scale and 00:05:16.930 --> 00:05:21.629 exit in some cases. And unsurprisingly, lots 00:05:21.629 --> 00:05:25.129 of those founders are in professional services 00:05:25.129 --> 00:05:29.220 and healthcare. I mean, you've learned quite 00:05:29.220 --> 00:05:32.040 a lot of lessons. What are the common pitfalls 00:05:32.040 --> 00:05:34.459 you see entrepreneurs making it as mistakes? 00:05:34.759 --> 00:05:36.040 What are the common mistakes you kind of see 00:05:36.040 --> 00:05:38.079 them doing over and over again that you just 00:05:38.079 --> 00:05:39.639 want to tell them, just stop doing this because 00:05:39.639 --> 00:05:42.360 I've seen it all before. That's a good question. 00:05:42.500 --> 00:05:47.620 I think there's probably a couple. I think that 00:05:47.620 --> 00:05:50.959 I've spoken to lots of entrepreneurs who've taken 00:05:50.959 --> 00:05:55.160 investment and wish that they hadn't. And so 00:05:55.160 --> 00:05:57.800 I think there's You know, I'm a bootstrap founder, 00:05:58.100 --> 00:06:01.139 so for me, I've not personally been on that journey. 00:06:01.300 --> 00:06:04.279 I've helped others raise, but I haven't been 00:06:04.279 --> 00:06:07.459 on that journey. But some of the conversations, 00:06:07.620 --> 00:06:11.860 some of the stories around having somebody breathing 00:06:11.860 --> 00:06:15.560 down your neck, unrealistic expectations. And 00:06:15.560 --> 00:06:17.740 I think, you know, when you're a founder, the 00:06:17.740 --> 00:06:20.860 blood, sweat and tears that you put in when somebody 00:06:20.860 --> 00:06:23.319 else holds a lot of the equity in the business. 00:06:23.550 --> 00:06:28.050 I'm not sure about the balance on equity there. 00:06:28.589 --> 00:06:34.189 And so I see that more recently. I think that 00:06:34.189 --> 00:06:37.689 if you're building a business and you're bootstrapping 00:06:37.689 --> 00:06:40.810 it, you have to be able to sell those services 00:06:40.810 --> 00:06:44.110 and deliver. In my opinion, that means you're 00:06:44.110 --> 00:06:46.470 actually building and running a business properly 00:06:46.470 --> 00:06:49.250 and getting experience of doing that. I guess 00:06:49.250 --> 00:06:56.410 the other bit that I see quite a lot is unrealist 00:06:56.410 --> 00:06:59.829 timescales around doing things. So some people 00:06:59.829 --> 00:07:03.410 think it's going to be a lot faster than it actually 00:07:03.410 --> 00:07:06.910 is. And I think this is probably inherent in, 00:07:06.910 --> 00:07:10.910 well, hell, we kind of operate as a, you know, 00:07:10.910 --> 00:07:13.589 as a world, everything is instant, you know, 00:07:13.610 --> 00:07:16.550 the on, we are the on demand generation. And 00:07:16.550 --> 00:07:20.360 so people will watch some influencers on TikTok 00:07:20.360 --> 00:07:22.819 or Insta and think I'm going to be building a 00:07:22.819 --> 00:07:25.939 business next in half an hour. And I think that 00:07:25.939 --> 00:07:30.279 drives some unrealistic demands. If I was more 00:07:30.279 --> 00:07:32.899 experienced, I probably wouldn't have attempted 00:07:32.899 --> 00:07:35.240 to go in and out in five years with the last 00:07:35.240 --> 00:07:39.379 business. So it's already a massively condensed 00:07:39.379 --> 00:07:42.519 timeline. So I think they're probably the key, 00:07:42.540 --> 00:07:47.300 the key bits that spring to mind. Do you think 00:07:47.300 --> 00:07:50.199 there are some unreleasing expectations coming 00:07:50.199 --> 00:07:53.579 in from investors as well? Instead of just advising 00:07:53.579 --> 00:07:55.740 the founder saying, hey, take your time, build 00:07:55.740 --> 00:07:58.439 correctly, build well. They actually say we need 00:07:58.439 --> 00:08:00.699 to do this for tomorrow and for yesterday in 00:08:00.699 --> 00:08:02.160 this case, and everything needs to be perfect 00:08:02.160 --> 00:08:03.600 because that's just the way business is done. 00:08:03.860 --> 00:08:06.699 I think that happens a lot. I do think there's 00:08:06.699 --> 00:08:08.939 probably a fair bit of that, especially in certain 00:08:08.939 --> 00:08:13.569 industries that are kind of hot like AI. And, 00:08:13.810 --> 00:08:16.870 you know, everybody is doing something with AI. 00:08:17.290 --> 00:08:20.329 And if you're not, you know, the perception is 00:08:20.329 --> 00:08:22.129 you should be, or you're getting left behind. 00:08:22.509 --> 00:08:25.410 I think the reality is that's, you know, a lot 00:08:25.410 --> 00:08:27.490 of that will be machine learning at best and 00:08:27.490 --> 00:08:30.490 probably not true AI. That's conversation for 00:08:30.490 --> 00:08:34.570 another day. I think that, I think that there 00:08:34.570 --> 00:08:38.070 is a real drive around getting stuff built and 00:08:38.070 --> 00:08:42.289 shipped and therefore generating cash rapidly. 00:08:42.949 --> 00:08:46.470 But if you drive people that hard and they cut 00:08:46.470 --> 00:08:49.049 corners, here's the news. When that product goes 00:08:49.049 --> 00:08:52.070 to market, there are going to be problems with 00:08:52.070 --> 00:08:54.289 the service that you think you're delivering. 00:08:54.730 --> 00:08:57.309 And as we all know, Ricardo, that's the fastest 00:08:57.309 --> 00:09:01.149 way to piss off your clients and not manage to 00:09:01.149 --> 00:09:04.429 retain them longer term. And so I think it's, 00:09:04.549 --> 00:09:08.850 it's some of the building blocks around planning. 00:09:09.409 --> 00:09:12.759 And I, you know, I say that. Because it's not 00:09:12.759 --> 00:09:15.600 my natural default. I would rather get going 00:09:15.600 --> 00:09:19.860 I said before Strategy kind of understand the 00:09:19.860 --> 00:09:22.480 need for it, but I'm I'm a doer I'm a delivery 00:09:22.480 --> 00:09:24.899 girl But I do think planning and thinking some 00:09:24.899 --> 00:09:28.659 of that stuff through and pushing back on on 00:09:28.659 --> 00:09:32.679 people whether that's investors around expectations 00:09:32.679 --> 00:09:35.600 because otherwise all you're gonna do is is disappoint 00:09:35.600 --> 00:09:39.700 them and By by definition disappoint you yourself 00:09:39.700 --> 00:09:43.139 in the process When you're building businesses 00:09:43.139 --> 00:09:46.279 and you build many, do you normally do it with 00:09:46.279 --> 00:09:52.320 a team or you go about it yourself? I really 00:09:52.320 --> 00:09:56.460 like having a team around me and I really like 00:09:56.460 --> 00:10:01.899 the difference of opinions around how we get 00:10:01.899 --> 00:10:06.759 things done. I guess as a founder this time, 00:10:07.240 --> 00:10:11.440 I own the business. 100 % myself at some point. 00:10:11.720 --> 00:10:15.799 We will make equity available for those who have 00:10:15.799 --> 00:10:20.820 helped, probably options have helped in this. 00:10:22.379 --> 00:10:25.759 I have had experience of working with business 00:10:25.759 --> 00:10:29.899 partners and this time without. I guess if you've 00:10:29.899 --> 00:10:32.159 got a good team and they're going to challenge, 00:10:32.620 --> 00:10:35.779 we have the infamous line in a retrospective 00:10:35.779 --> 00:10:40.129 yesterday around being The highest paid person's 00:10:40.129 --> 00:10:43.850 opinion and an ass that I didn't comment first. 00:10:44.629 --> 00:10:47.669 The irony is my team are completely uninterested 00:10:47.669 --> 00:10:49.850 in my view a lot of the time and will challenge 00:10:49.850 --> 00:10:55.769 me as hard as anybody else. So I think there's 00:10:55.769 --> 00:10:59.450 pros and cons. For me, last time round, I wanted 00:10:59.450 --> 00:11:01.470 a business partner. I didn't feel I could do 00:11:01.470 --> 00:11:05.009 it myself. This time, I absolutely do not feel 00:11:05.009 --> 00:11:07.590 the same way. I'm very comfortable doing it myself. 00:11:07.789 --> 00:11:10.950 But I really like collaborating. I love working 00:11:10.950 --> 00:11:13.250 with other entrepreneurs and I love working with 00:11:13.250 --> 00:11:18.429 a team because it is the diversity of opinions 00:11:18.429 --> 00:11:21.350 and challenge. And I think, you know, sometimes 00:11:21.350 --> 00:11:25.850 founders, I don't know, they kind of believe 00:11:25.850 --> 00:11:28.389 their own hype a little. And, you know, we don't 00:11:28.389 --> 00:11:30.690 get it right a lot of the time. In fact, we get 00:11:30.690 --> 00:11:33.610 it wrong loads. And so having that challenge 00:11:33.610 --> 00:11:37.019 and Is important. I like that challenge from 00:11:37.019 --> 00:11:38.899 everybody in the business. I'm not interested 00:11:38.899 --> 00:11:41.980 in hierarchy And you know, I want everybody to 00:11:41.980 --> 00:11:44.659 be able to say that is a shocking idea, right? 00:11:45.059 --> 00:11:48.559 Let's not bother with that. So You know, how 00:11:48.559 --> 00:11:51.299 do you keep yourself? I guess grounded and keep 00:11:51.299 --> 00:11:53.200 your ego in check when you when you're building 00:11:53.200 --> 00:11:55.559 if that's a good question Ricardo and a hard 00:11:55.559 --> 00:11:57.580 one We should ask my wife the answer to that 00:11:57.710 --> 00:12:01.730 She may say she doesn't actually, jokes aside, 00:12:01.850 --> 00:12:05.490 that is a really hard question. I'm pretty experienced 00:12:05.490 --> 00:12:09.549 with what I've done, but I don't think for one 00:12:09.549 --> 00:12:12.490 minute that I have all the answers. This market 00:12:12.490 --> 00:12:15.990 and this world is moving really quick. And so, 00:12:16.129 --> 00:12:20.490 you know, I'm 46 from an age perspective. There 00:12:20.490 --> 00:12:24.450 are lots of people around me who are tapped into 00:12:24.450 --> 00:12:29.330 social media in a way that I probably will never 00:12:29.330 --> 00:12:33.490 be now. You know, platforms like TikTok, I don't 00:12:33.490 --> 00:12:36.269 use at all. I suspect at some point I'm going 00:12:36.269 --> 00:12:40.149 to have to, but I don't and I'm resisting it. 00:12:40.549 --> 00:12:45.610 But I think the highs and lows of running a business 00:12:45.610 --> 00:12:49.570 are a really good check for ego because we get 00:12:49.570 --> 00:12:52.450 so many things wrong. And anybody who's saying 00:12:52.450 --> 00:12:54.909 they don't, I think is a bit of a fantasist or 00:12:54.909 --> 00:12:59.259 bloody lucky. uh but the the reality is um it's 00:12:59.259 --> 00:13:05.779 a roller coaster of emotion and um i i have times 00:13:05.779 --> 00:13:07.980 where i think jesus why am i doing this again 00:13:07.980 --> 00:13:11.580 uh and then i have times most of the time where 00:13:11.580 --> 00:13:15.220 i thoroughly enjoy it i kind of relished the 00:13:15.220 --> 00:13:20.259 challenge i loved the learning but i i guess 00:13:20.259 --> 00:13:22.779 i've got a pretty good understanding of me is 00:13:22.779 --> 00:13:25.919 the honest answer ricardo these days i done a 00:13:25.919 --> 00:13:29.100 lot of work on me, had loads of therapy over 00:13:29.100 --> 00:13:32.659 the years. I'm very open about the fact I'm in 00:13:32.659 --> 00:13:36.600 a 12 -step fellowship, you know, 10 years sober. 00:13:37.080 --> 00:13:41.120 So I guess 46 -year -old me just knows me better. 00:13:41.659 --> 00:13:44.879 If I had the confidence at 20 that I have now, 00:13:45.220 --> 00:13:48.740 I'd have been very dangerous. You know, I know 00:13:48.740 --> 00:13:50.919 a lot of people are listening to this. They're 00:13:50.919 --> 00:13:53.419 just starting out their entrepreneurial journey. 00:13:53.679 --> 00:13:55.299 And they're facing a lot of problems, right? 00:13:55.379 --> 00:13:57.620 And they're facing a lot of those very dark moments. 00:13:58.240 --> 00:14:02.019 So what advice would 46 -year -old Rachel give 00:14:02.019 --> 00:14:04.360 to the 20 -year -olds listening to this? What 00:14:04.360 --> 00:14:10.059 would you tell them? I would tell them the same 00:14:10.059 --> 00:14:11.960 thing I tell myself a lot of the time, which 00:14:11.960 --> 00:14:16.600 is a bad day running a startup is much better. 00:14:16.750 --> 00:14:19.409 For me personally, in the work of anybody else, 00:14:19.549 --> 00:14:22.389 any day of the week, I am not great to manage 00:14:22.389 --> 00:14:29.970 because I am very ADHD and I'm very happy to 00:14:29.970 --> 00:14:32.389 get it right or wrong, providing I don't have 00:14:32.389 --> 00:14:34.830 somebody on my case. I've never been broke with 00:14:34.830 --> 00:14:38.490 authority. And so for me personally, that's how 00:14:38.490 --> 00:14:42.929 I manage me. And what I would say is it's important 00:14:42.929 --> 00:14:45.629 that whatever you're doing is really lighting 00:14:45.629 --> 00:14:50.070 you up. So does it really fulfill something in 00:14:50.070 --> 00:14:53.590 you? You know, there's a lot of people I think 00:14:53.590 --> 00:14:56.870 that would do something because it generated 00:14:56.870 --> 00:14:59.970 a lot of cash and that may well be what motivates, 00:15:00.029 --> 00:15:02.629 you know, we all have different motivations, 00:15:02.629 --> 00:15:07.570 but I think for me, if what you're doing is that 00:15:07.570 --> 00:15:11.529 kind of, you know, tied to your North Star as 00:15:11.529 --> 00:15:13.750 a person, the impact you want to make in the 00:15:13.750 --> 00:15:16.529 world. and it's something you deeply believe 00:15:16.529 --> 00:15:20.350 in, then that will see you through some pretty 00:15:20.350 --> 00:15:27.230 horrific times, and get a community, get a network 00:15:27.230 --> 00:15:31.610 of other founders, entrepreneurs, who are at 00:15:31.610 --> 00:15:34.289 varying stages, who you can pick up the phone 00:15:34.289 --> 00:15:38.450 to, or WhatsApp, or Voicenote, or DM, and just 00:15:38.450 --> 00:15:41.980 go, Jesus, I'm having a mare. I was chatting 00:15:41.980 --> 00:15:46.440 to a lady I met at an event, maybe six weeks 00:15:46.440 --> 00:15:49.740 ago, a FemTech event, one of the best events 00:15:49.740 --> 00:15:52.679 I've attended actually, it's called SysGlobal. 00:15:52.919 --> 00:15:55.480 And I was chatting to her last night and she's 00:15:55.480 --> 00:15:58.460 super early stage. She is going to raise half 00:15:58.460 --> 00:16:01.659 a mil, she's then going to launch and she has 00:16:01.659 --> 00:16:04.179 such a powerful plan for what this business is 00:16:04.179 --> 00:16:06.919 going to look like in 12 months and her energy 00:16:06.919 --> 00:16:11.299 is infectious. And I think it's about, you know, 00:16:11.360 --> 00:16:13.539 she deeply believes in what she's going to go 00:16:13.539 --> 00:16:17.460 and do. So you've got to want it because a lot 00:16:17.460 --> 00:16:22.580 of it is not going to be glamorous and is hard 00:16:22.580 --> 00:16:27.720 work. And so my advice is get that community 00:16:27.720 --> 00:16:31.000 strapped in. There is no substitute for hard 00:16:31.000 --> 00:16:34.840 work. I am yet to meet anyone who, you know, 00:16:34.980 --> 00:16:39.029 does this bloody four hour day and and makes 00:16:39.029 --> 00:16:41.929 a rip -roaring success of stuff and maybe they're 00:16:41.929 --> 00:16:44.450 out there. Please, you know, drop me a line. 00:16:44.450 --> 00:16:48.690 Let me know where I'm going wrong. But yeah, 00:16:48.690 --> 00:16:51.990 I think if you believe and you want to make a 00:16:51.990 --> 00:16:54.669 difference and it kind of really lights you up, 00:16:54.669 --> 00:16:58.610 then you're onto a good thing. But it's a rollercoaster. 00:16:58.870 --> 00:17:03.070 You know, it's massively up and down. And emotionally, 00:17:03.070 --> 00:17:05.829 I find that easier to deal with now than I would 00:17:05.829 --> 00:17:09.069 have done 20 years ago. I'm most curious about 00:17:09.069 --> 00:17:11.009 one thing. I know you have a published book and 00:17:11.009 --> 00:17:13.710 one of my passions is actually reading biographies 00:17:13.710 --> 00:17:18.009 of successful people. Who inspires you? Who's 00:17:18.009 --> 00:17:19.450 that person on the back of your mind saying, 00:17:19.809 --> 00:17:21.829 they've done all this and I think I can also 00:17:21.829 --> 00:17:24.490 do the same. So who's that? Yeah, that's a really 00:17:24.490 --> 00:17:27.950 good question. So probably an unusual response 00:17:27.950 --> 00:17:30.089 actually, but I'm going to give this one a go. 00:17:30.730 --> 00:17:35.740 So my stepdaughter got very sick. uh with meningitis 00:17:35.740 --> 00:17:40.079 when she was 14 she's a triple mpt as a result 00:17:40.079 --> 00:17:43.819 and has had a couple of kidney transplants and 00:17:43.819 --> 00:17:46.819 i think watching charlotte go on that journey 00:17:46.819 --> 00:17:53.980 over the last 15 16 16 years um blows my mind 00:17:53.980 --> 00:17:57.940 her resilience and her ability to get up and 00:17:57.940 --> 00:18:01.690 carry on you know with unbelievable amount of 00:18:01.690 --> 00:18:06.650 kind of, you know, personal medical drama. So 00:18:06.650 --> 00:18:09.289 I think from a personal perspective, Charlotte 00:18:09.289 --> 00:18:12.690 is a massive motivation. And if we're talking 00:18:12.690 --> 00:18:16.569 about like business, business people, I met one 00:18:16.569 --> 00:18:19.730 of my absolute heroes for the first time in person 00:18:19.730 --> 00:18:24.450 last week. And that's Steven Bartlett. And the 00:18:24.450 --> 00:18:27.549 reason I like, the reason I like Steven so much 00:18:27.549 --> 00:18:31.470 is Mean I think he has like the dream job because 00:18:31.470 --> 00:18:34.529 he gets to interview super bright people alone 00:18:34.529 --> 00:18:40.789 all day He was fantastic. It was great on the 00:18:40.789 --> 00:18:46.529 stage very authentic Super smart very fast brain. 00:18:46.529 --> 00:18:54.250 I yeah, I'm quite a fan of him and I guess yeah, 00:18:54.329 --> 00:18:58.400 they are the two that immediately Jump, jump 00:18:58.400 --> 00:19:00.220 out. That's our examples. I mean, the absolutely 00:19:00.220 --> 00:19:02.940 brilliant, you know, motivation from both of 00:19:02.940 --> 00:19:06.339 them. Um, yeah, this is deep, very deep. Um, 00:19:06.599 --> 00:19:08.859 you know, I'm curious, what does the future look 00:19:08.859 --> 00:19:10.500 like for you? I mean, I know you have your plans, 00:19:10.660 --> 00:19:13.440 your ambitions. I mean, what, what can you share 00:19:13.440 --> 00:19:16.480 with us? That's a million dollar question. I 00:19:16.480 --> 00:19:19.700 think the future looks like, uh, going back to 00:19:19.700 --> 00:19:22.779 what I just said about really having a passion, 00:19:22.779 --> 00:19:26.519 uh, and being completely lit up by something. 00:19:26.839 --> 00:19:29.960 I suspect at some point in my future, I will 00:19:29.960 --> 00:19:33.680 do some work in and around addiction because 00:19:33.680 --> 00:19:38.380 it personally is a big part of who I am. And 00:19:38.380 --> 00:19:41.200 I don't know in what way, and I don't know how, 00:19:41.259 --> 00:19:44.319 but if anybody works in that field and is listening 00:19:44.319 --> 00:19:47.000 and wants to have a conversation, I'm absolutely 00:19:47.000 --> 00:19:52.720 up for that. So I would like to explore buying 00:19:52.720 --> 00:19:56.099 businesses because I haven't done that yet. and 00:19:56.099 --> 00:19:58.839 maybe knitting some of these businesses together 00:19:58.839 --> 00:20:04.940 and seeing how that plays out. I've done some 00:20:04.940 --> 00:20:09.559 investing, some with some success, some with 00:20:09.559 --> 00:20:13.539 less. But for me, I think the learning is a massive 00:20:13.539 --> 00:20:18.660 part of how I operate. I'm very interested at 00:20:18.660 --> 00:20:21.059 the minute in learning around kind of buying 00:20:21.059 --> 00:20:24.519 businesses and that whole side of the market 00:20:24.519 --> 00:20:30.400 which is new to me. So I suspect those things 00:20:30.400 --> 00:20:35.240 will play part of my future and I fancy living 00:20:35.240 --> 00:20:39.299 and working in a warmer climate because this 00:20:39.299 --> 00:20:41.640 weather in the UK is just a shocker, Ricardo. 00:20:42.559 --> 00:20:47.140 So I think that we're going to have a little 00:20:47.140 --> 00:20:49.500 adventure in Spain next year for three months 00:20:49.500 --> 00:20:54.690 and we'll see. I just think The nature of the 00:20:54.690 --> 00:20:57.269 work that I'm doing now, I can work from anywhere. 00:20:59.430 --> 00:21:01.769 So I have a massive love affair with London, 00:21:01.809 --> 00:21:04.490 so I won't be leaving it for too long. But I 00:21:04.490 --> 00:21:09.329 do think it's good to have those experiences 00:21:09.329 --> 00:21:11.710 as well. From a cultural perspective, I've lived 00:21:11.710 --> 00:21:14.569 abroad a number of times before, and I'd like 00:21:14.569 --> 00:21:17.210 to do a bit more of a - Interesting. I wanted 00:21:17.210 --> 00:21:21.420 to touch upon a subject that - I can feel you 00:21:21.420 --> 00:21:23.859 have a lot to tell about, which is mental health 00:21:23.859 --> 00:21:27.279 and making sure that as an entrepreneur, as someone 00:21:27.279 --> 00:21:29.559 building their business, they keep their mental 00:21:29.559 --> 00:21:32.339 health in check. Now you've been on the massive 00:21:32.339 --> 00:21:35.819 journey, a lot of transformation. What have been 00:21:35.819 --> 00:21:39.460 the key lessons, but also the guiding principles 00:21:39.460 --> 00:21:42.900 in this massive journey you've been on? Yeah, 00:21:42.900 --> 00:21:48.440 that's a great question. I think for me, understanding 00:21:48.440 --> 00:21:51.670 really, who you are as an individual is super 00:21:51.670 --> 00:21:54.970 important. And it's easy to not do that. And 00:21:54.970 --> 00:21:58.109 we're in a world of massive distraction. And 00:21:58.109 --> 00:22:02.609 so it's very easy to be hugely distracted. I 00:22:02.609 --> 00:22:05.349 think having a support network from a mental 00:22:05.349 --> 00:22:08.069 health perspective, and that can be lots of different 00:22:08.069 --> 00:22:10.930 things for different people. For me personally, 00:22:12.289 --> 00:22:17.250 I journal and I find that quite a therapeutic 00:22:17.250 --> 00:22:21.289 way to get out whatever is sort of sitting in 00:22:21.289 --> 00:22:25.190 me, I guess. And I have an act of doing a gratitude 00:22:25.190 --> 00:22:28.730 list every day of 10 things that I'm grateful 00:22:28.730 --> 00:22:32.349 for. And it takes less than five minutes. But 00:22:32.349 --> 00:22:36.150 what it does is it puts my mind into a positive 00:22:36.150 --> 00:22:39.490 mindset at the start of the day, thinking about 00:22:39.490 --> 00:22:42.369 what I'm grateful for. And it is not about, you 00:22:42.369 --> 00:22:44.970 know, grand things like, you know, there's a 00:22:44.970 --> 00:22:46.849 Ferrari in the drive. I mean, there actually 00:22:46.849 --> 00:22:52.059 isn't. But it's not about that. It's about perspective 00:22:52.059 --> 00:22:55.819 and being grateful for, I don't know, good coffee, 00:22:56.599 --> 00:23:01.460 you know, good run in the morning. And so I think 00:23:01.460 --> 00:23:04.859 those things that for me are important and get 00:23:04.859 --> 00:23:09.420 more and more important the older I get or the 00:23:09.420 --> 00:23:11.140 better connected I get. However, if you look 00:23:11.140 --> 00:23:16.819 at that, I also think being able to have conversations 00:23:17.039 --> 00:23:19.819 about mental health and how people are feeling. 00:23:20.200 --> 00:23:22.799 We often joke at the grafter with the internal 00:23:22.799 --> 00:23:26.119 team and actually sometimes with clients because 00:23:26.119 --> 00:23:30.960 a lot of team meetings go into like a therapy, 00:23:31.240 --> 00:23:33.640 it almost feels like a group therapy session 00:23:33.640 --> 00:23:37.319 because we do talk about everything and have 00:23:37.319 --> 00:23:40.640 created a culture where people, it is completely 00:23:40.640 --> 00:23:44.000 acceptable for people to have those conversations 00:23:44.000 --> 00:23:47.960 and encouraged. And I think You know, these jobs 00:23:47.960 --> 00:23:52.420 as founders, they're lonely, they're hard. So 00:23:52.420 --> 00:23:56.640 having a network and being able to ask for some 00:23:56.640 --> 00:23:59.920 help. Um, and I think that's probably the key 00:23:59.920 --> 00:24:03.779 bit is, is not thinking you've got to struggle 00:24:03.779 --> 00:24:06.779 with everything yourself. Um, and asking, asking 00:24:06.779 --> 00:24:11.019 for help or, you know, just saying, I don't know 00:24:11.019 --> 00:24:13.740 how to do this. Can I get some, get some help 00:24:13.740 --> 00:24:16.720 with it? I've got a friend who does work in addiction, 00:24:17.460 --> 00:24:22.740 sort of, and he is launching a business at the 00:24:22.740 --> 00:24:24.720 minute, and he said to me the other day, I cannot 00:24:24.720 --> 00:24:27.880 believe the amount of support that I've got from 00:24:27.880 --> 00:24:30.839 people by just asking for help. Yeah, it's an 00:24:30.839 --> 00:24:35.579 untapped skill in many people, I think, being 00:24:35.579 --> 00:24:38.960 humble and saying, you know, can you help me 00:24:38.960 --> 00:24:42.279 out? It's one of the hardest things as an entrepreneur 00:24:42.279 --> 00:24:44.880 because you don't want to be seen as weak. But 00:24:44.880 --> 00:24:46.220 at the same time, you actually do need a lot 00:24:46.220 --> 00:24:49.339 of help. And being able to ask for help, it's 00:24:49.339 --> 00:24:50.940 getting into the mindset saying, you know what, 00:24:50.960 --> 00:24:52.880 I don't have this nailed down, let me ask for 00:24:52.880 --> 00:24:55.299 help. And just getting some directions that that's 00:24:55.299 --> 00:24:57.599 hard to solve. But then when you start taking 00:24:57.599 --> 00:25:00.420 it, you think, oh, wow, this is amazing. I think 00:25:00.420 --> 00:25:03.160 it's incredible. And a lot of people, Ricardo, 00:25:03.759 --> 00:25:06.700 are in my experience, people will always help 00:25:06.700 --> 00:25:10.819 if they can. I mean, you know, if you were to 00:25:10.819 --> 00:25:12.599 ask him for something crazy, you know, you're 00:25:12.599 --> 00:25:14.500 messaging Richard Branson and say, I want some 00:25:14.500 --> 00:25:16.940 first -class tickets somewhere, you know, I suspect 00:25:16.940 --> 00:25:19.339 the answer is probably going to be no. I mean, 00:25:19.339 --> 00:25:23.880 I may be wrong, but I think people in the main 00:25:23.880 --> 00:25:26.400 are quite generous with their time. You know, 00:25:26.400 --> 00:25:29.799 we set something up at the Grafter called Bootstrapper 00:25:29.799 --> 00:25:32.920 Hour and we run it. It's a LinkedIn live once 00:25:32.920 --> 00:25:36.880 a month. We run it for early stage founders. 00:25:37.910 --> 00:25:40.890 So they've got a place to come, they have a community, 00:25:41.269 --> 00:25:43.509 they can rock up and they can ask whatever they 00:25:43.509 --> 00:25:48.849 want. And we've had all manner of topics and 00:25:48.849 --> 00:25:52.609 conversations around businesses, mental health. 00:25:53.609 --> 00:25:59.750 You know, how do I explore tax to set up a limited 00:25:59.750 --> 00:26:03.390 company to side hustles, you name it. And I think 00:26:03.390 --> 00:26:06.789 being able to plug into some of these is super. 00:26:06.910 --> 00:26:11.950 important because it does start to help the next 00:26:11.950 --> 00:26:16.109 generation of entrepreneurs coming through. So 00:26:16.109 --> 00:26:22.349 I would always recommend that. And for me personally, 00:26:23.250 --> 00:26:26.609 I'm lucky I have a wide network of people that 00:26:26.609 --> 00:26:31.609 I will ask for help in lots of different capacities. 00:26:32.769 --> 00:26:34.390 Just thinking about something you mentioned, 00:26:34.670 --> 00:26:36.410 because I also have the same thing, which is 00:26:36.410 --> 00:26:40.190 ADHD, right? And ADHD, one of the good things 00:26:40.190 --> 00:26:43.730 and bad things about it is you are able to juggle 00:26:43.730 --> 00:26:46.170 multiple things at the same time and feel completely 00:26:46.170 --> 00:26:49.130 at ease and no stress whatsoever. However, if 00:26:49.130 --> 00:26:51.789 someone asks you to hyper -focus on a specific 00:26:51.789 --> 00:26:53.490 task, you just think, oh wow, this is incredibly 00:26:53.490 --> 00:26:55.509 boring, I need to do something else at the same 00:26:55.509 --> 00:26:58.759 time. But I also think as a CEO, as a leader, 00:26:58.880 --> 00:27:01.440 as a founder, this is actually one of the best 00:27:01.440 --> 00:27:03.680 skills to have because you can do multiple things 00:27:03.680 --> 00:27:07.200 at the same time. Now, how impactful has this 00:27:07.200 --> 00:27:09.619 been in your own life and in your own journey? 00:27:10.579 --> 00:27:17.980 So I think for me, the ADHD, I suspected that 00:27:17.980 --> 00:27:21.619 I was prior to being diagnosed and I suspected 00:27:21.619 --> 00:27:26.369 it from a complete lack of appreciation for authority 00:27:26.369 --> 00:27:30.930 from much younger years and just being a little 00:27:30.930 --> 00:27:34.710 bit questionable with activities growing up and, 00:27:34.710 --> 00:27:37.670 you know, just sort of pushing the boundaries, 00:27:37.670 --> 00:27:39.369 I think is probably the best way of phrasing 00:27:39.369 --> 00:27:45.509 it, Riccola. And so I guess for me, you've described 00:27:45.509 --> 00:27:49.349 exactly the sort of flavor of ADA I am. I can 00:27:49.349 --> 00:27:52.680 run loads of things concurrently. Hyperfocus 00:27:52.680 --> 00:27:54.759 is a bit of a challenge. And if someone sends 00:27:54.759 --> 00:27:57.319 me a form to fill in, I'd rather fall through 00:27:57.319 --> 00:28:01.039 a closed window. Uh, I, it puts the fear of God 00:28:01.039 --> 00:28:03.380 in me. Like if you have to do a visa application 00:28:03.380 --> 00:28:05.740 or something, I'm like, oh, I feel ill. But I'd 00:28:05.740 --> 00:28:09.259 also, um, I would delay that stuff forever in 00:28:09.259 --> 00:28:12.200 a day. Cause it's, you know, it fits in the category 00:28:12.200 --> 00:28:14.759 like going to the supermarket for a weekly shop, 00:28:15.039 --> 00:28:18.259 i .e. never going to happen. I'm just not wired 00:28:18.259 --> 00:28:23.390 that way. And. I accept that. And I think the 00:28:23.390 --> 00:28:25.390 other thing for me is I'm lucky. I've had a PA 00:28:25.390 --> 00:28:28.869 support me for a long period of time who is very 00:28:28.869 --> 00:28:34.170 okay with ADHD founders. And I think by recognizing 00:28:34.170 --> 00:28:37.970 some of that stuff that bores me is much better 00:28:37.970 --> 00:28:41.650 handled by other people. To make sure it actually 00:28:41.650 --> 00:28:45.309 is dull is key. It's funny. I mean, this, this 00:28:45.309 --> 00:28:47.049 thing's like bounced around my head, so I'm going 00:28:47.049 --> 00:28:50.180 to say it. But my partner has always said to 00:28:50.180 --> 00:28:52.740 me, you know, Roach, why don't you have carrier 00:28:52.740 --> 00:28:54.460 bags in the boot of the car when you go to the 00:28:54.460 --> 00:28:57.000 supermarket? I said at the point I put a carrier 00:28:57.000 --> 00:28:59.420 bag in my boot of my car, I'm going to kill myself. 00:29:00.039 --> 00:29:02.420 A slight exaggeration, but I said that sort of 00:29:02.420 --> 00:29:05.519 planning ahead rates a bit like a list for me 00:29:05.519 --> 00:29:10.079 and none of that stuff. It just makes me feel 00:29:10.079 --> 00:29:14.140 uncomfortable, that level of planning. But I 00:29:14.140 --> 00:29:17.319 think as a founder, I think it's a a superpower. 00:29:18.480 --> 00:29:21.339 I do think the, and I noticed me do it earlier 00:29:21.339 --> 00:29:24.039 today, you know, I can go right off on a mad 00:29:24.039 --> 00:29:27.880 wall, down a rabbit hole. Something piques my 00:29:27.880 --> 00:29:30.160 interest and that's what business buying has 00:29:30.160 --> 00:29:32.839 piqued my interest a few months ago and I cannot 00:29:32.839 --> 00:29:35.559 consume enough. And I know that, you know, if 00:29:35.559 --> 00:29:37.740 it's not a podcast, it's a book and there's probably 00:29:37.740 --> 00:29:40.460 two, two books a week getting read. I mean, it's 00:29:40.460 --> 00:29:46.650 crazy, but it's is who I am, so I kind of embrace 00:29:46.650 --> 00:29:51.190 it and accept it and I manage it. I don't know 00:29:51.190 --> 00:29:54.829 whether I manage it better or it calms down a 00:29:54.829 --> 00:29:57.150 bit when you get older. I can still feel it in 00:29:57.150 --> 00:30:00.130 me sometimes, you know, when you're hyperwired 00:30:00.130 --> 00:30:03.190 and kind of really hyperactive. I actually had 00:30:03.190 --> 00:30:07.470 that this morning. And so, yeah, I just had to 00:30:07.470 --> 00:30:10.769 go for a long run and try to balance it out. 00:30:10.910 --> 00:30:13.789 How important is in exercises in the founder's 00:30:13.789 --> 00:30:18.809 journey? Essential. Um, but that's for my journey. 00:30:19.450 --> 00:30:24.029 So I, um, yeah, for, for me personally, I mean, 00:30:24.230 --> 00:30:27.430 I guess transformation started with me personally. 00:30:27.750 --> 00:30:31.789 I was probably seven stone heavier at maybe 10, 00:30:31.789 --> 00:30:36.269 10 years ago, maybe 15 years now. So, and then 00:30:36.269 --> 00:30:39.809 I kind of stopped, stopped drinking and took 00:30:40.059 --> 00:30:46.680 you know, up, exercise, and it's good for my 00:30:46.680 --> 00:30:49.539 mental health. You know, my head is very, very 00:30:49.539 --> 00:30:52.960 busy. I've mentioned ADHD and addiction, so, 00:30:52.960 --> 00:30:55.519 you know, it's not quiet up there. I wish it 00:30:55.519 --> 00:30:58.279 was Ricardo at certain times, but it's very rarely 00:30:58.279 --> 00:31:04.920 quiet. So, being able to do activities that take 00:31:04.920 --> 00:31:09.269 me out of my mind, like You know, I do Mootai, 00:31:09.390 --> 00:31:12.890 do martial arts, run, do some weight lifting, 00:31:13.430 --> 00:31:17.869 but also like meditation, slowing down is actually 00:31:17.869 --> 00:31:21.190 very important for me because everything goes 00:31:21.190 --> 00:31:26.170 a million miles an hour. So being able to slow 00:31:26.170 --> 00:31:30.250 down is definitely a work in progress, but it's 00:31:30.250 --> 00:31:32.900 a handy skill to have. As we're reaching the 00:31:32.900 --> 00:31:36.000 end of the podcast, I wanted to ask you advice 00:31:36.000 --> 00:31:37.700 that I think a lot of our listeners would like 00:31:37.700 --> 00:31:41.940 to listen to. Can you share some pearls of wisdom 00:31:41.940 --> 00:31:44.619 that you've learned from your own journey and 00:31:44.619 --> 00:31:48.779 you'd like to tell us? Yeah, of course. I think 00:31:48.779 --> 00:31:54.640 pearls of wisdom, for sure. Cash flow is king 00:31:54.640 --> 00:31:58.579 or queen. However, you feel comfortable with 00:31:58.579 --> 00:32:02.420 that. For any entrepreneur, if you're not managing 00:32:02.420 --> 00:32:05.920 cash into the business, there is going to be 00:32:05.920 --> 00:32:08.779 a fundamental problem pretty quickly. It's the 00:32:08.779 --> 00:32:12.579 most basic advice imaginable, but for me, I think 00:32:12.579 --> 00:32:16.319 it's probably the most critical. I think the 00:32:16.319 --> 00:32:19.259 other bit is for entrepreneurs, you know, it's 00:32:19.259 --> 00:32:23.000 an important question to ask yourself. Are you 00:32:23.000 --> 00:32:25.660 creating a job for yourself or are you actually 00:32:25.660 --> 00:32:28.990 creating a company? because a lot of us dive 00:32:28.990 --> 00:32:32.130 in and build something that we love doing, but 00:32:32.130 --> 00:32:35.630 is that building a job or is it building a company? 00:32:37.289 --> 00:32:40.089 I guess you didn't ask for three, but I'm going 00:32:40.089 --> 00:32:46.029 to give you three. My final piece of advice is 00:32:46.029 --> 00:32:51.390 always be learning and be open to that because 00:32:51.390 --> 00:32:55.369 for me, this world is moving really quickly. 00:32:55.759 --> 00:32:59.700 And we can't be complacent in consultancy at 00:32:59.700 --> 00:33:02.420 the minute. And every article I'm reading is 00:33:02.420 --> 00:33:05.220 telling me that AI is going to replace my consultancy 00:33:05.220 --> 00:33:08.759 in five minutes. I don't think it will. But if 00:33:08.759 --> 00:33:12.799 we learn to understand what's going on in the 00:33:12.799 --> 00:33:15.880 market, I think it puts us, you know, ahead of 00:33:15.880 --> 00:33:18.559 some of the technological advances, but also 00:33:18.559 --> 00:33:24.970 allows us to bring personality and human nature 00:33:24.970 --> 00:33:29.309 to some of those. And so for me, learning is 00:33:29.309 --> 00:33:32.869 absolutely key. Rachel, if you want to reach 00:33:32.869 --> 00:33:37.930 out to you, how can you do that? So thegrafter 00:33:37.930 --> 00:33:43.210 .com is the company website and I am on LinkedIn 00:33:43.210 --> 00:33:47.890 more frequently than I should be. So Rachel Murphy 00:33:47.890 --> 00:33:52.750 on LinkedIn. And then recently debating whether 00:33:52.750 --> 00:33:54.809 I should be back on Twitter, but I don't want 00:33:54.809 --> 00:33:58.130 to start a big fanfare of debate around that. 00:33:59.029 --> 00:34:03.190 So yeah, that's where people would find me. Rachel, 00:34:03.210 --> 00:34:04.609 thank you so much for your time. I really enjoyed 00:34:04.609 --> 00:34:07.490 it. My pleasure, Ricardo. Thank you for having 00:34:07.490 --> 00:34:11.469 me. My pleasure. Thank you. All right. The podcast 00:34:11.469 --> 00:34:14.480 is also sponsored by Notion .so. Notion is offering 00:34:14.480 --> 00:34:17.219 6 months for free for new users. 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