Welcome to the Innovation Conversation, a podcast
about innovators, both in business and real life.
Hosted by myself, Ricardo Rescual and Harry McCona.
This podcast is also sponsored by ODEV Tech.
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.tech. The podcast is also sponsored by Notion
.so. Notion is offering six months for free for
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thestoreofevents .co .uk to read in the software.
Hi, and welcome to another episode of the Innovation
Conversation. Today we are joined by Maria Andrianova.
Maria, welcome to the podcast. Thank you. Thank
you. Happy to meet you, Ricardo, and thank you
for having me here. It's a pleasure having you
here. Maria, would you like to introduce yourself
to the audience, please? Oh, well. As you mentioned,
my name is Maria and I'm a serial entrepreneur.
I'm an angel investor and I live in Dubai, the
United Arab Emirates. I have been living here
for more than two years and I run like a small
family fund that invests in different products.
Mainly we love special cases. And also we develop
products. We have created like a small vintage
studio that helps cutting -edge ideas to find
their way to the market. And it is the thing
that I personally love doing. I love connecting
people. I love to find applications for great
ideas and actually... Science, something new
and exciting, needs a lot of help to find its
special product market fit. And when you find
that it fits, it feels like nothing else. It
is a sort of eternal happiness for me. Before
coming to Dubai, I was a big corporate back in
Russia. I had to move because of obviously the
political situation. I was running investment
vehicles. I was raking in dental funds. I was
creating corporate development program. I was
very much involved in VC, in education, in science.
I was teaching in best universities, a big program
like doctor for business administration. I was
teaching corporate management, board of directors
theory, pretty much the corporate stuff. And
from the corporate, I shifted to entrepreneurship
and investment. So it's a very long journey you've
been on. What was the main difference between
doing things in Russia and now doing them in
Dubai? Were there any differences in the way
people invest and operate in the space? If I
want to be precise, I would say I can't compare
because the overall situation in the world has
changed so much. Because the whole world went
through big, big transformation. First of all,
of course, political situation, political crisis,
changes in economics, then big movements of,
I would say, tribes. The planet has been through
that so many times, and now we are again in this
period of transformation, of shifting power,
and well, of course... that AI story everyone
is talking about, that artificial intelligence
is changing our lives so quickly, and the wide
adoption of all those AI tools changes the shape
of roles, the shape of business, and the shape
of human interaction. So, I would say that the
overall situation has changed, so I can't comment
freely on that big difference. Well, of course,
a very different culture and national character
in a way of doing business. But I'm not sure
if in this current world, it would be scientifically
correct to speak of scientific. And you know,
in your journey as a VC, you know, the startup,
you actually, it's quite interesting because
you're a VC and investor, but you also have your
own startup, correct me if I'm wrong on this
one. which actually focuses on analyzing the
perfect candidates for the job. Can you tell
me a bit more about that? Because that's actually
something quite fascinating. Yeah, it is the
crown jewel. It is my favorite and even though
I do investments in this project, I'm engaged
with my heart and soul because when I was almost
18, I started at my first job and I figured out
corporate environment. It's not exactly for me,
maybe, that I need something else. That's a regular
shape of host is not where I fit in. And I actually
felt there's a certain kind of misfit. When I
was going to school, when I was going to the
university, I wanted something more. I always
wanted to be engaged in, I would say, the activities
that would be shaped by myself. It is... I wouldn't
call it as something good or bad. It is just
the specifics that I required. So my dream was
to create an instrument that would help us make
this perfect match between personalities and
roles. And Neuroframe, it is the name of the
tool that we developed with the strongest neuroscientists
in the world. It is the tool of deep personality
diagnostics. It is a game. You play it from 30
to 60 minutes on your mobile phone. The game
is quite tricky. It will immerse you into a simulation
of a very high -loaded situation at work when
you have to deal with different tasks simultaneously
with different sorts of enemies, having different
sorts of toolings in your hands. and there are
over hundred thousand marks installed in the
game and the game does not allow you to understand
how to present yourself as someone nice because
you will have to handle so many different situations
in the game that it will provide a very truthful
picture of who you actually are the game assesses
human personality across eight basic verticals
two of them cognitive, your mental efficiency,
that is basically how smart you are while solving
tasks, then your learning agility, that is how
fast you learn, and then across six personality
-related verticals like openness to new, progress
monitoring, risk appetite, If you're a gambler,
then people function. If you are a grueble person,
then resilience. Just recently I was, I would
say, watching the video I made during Sam Ochman's
presentation last year at Hab 71 in Abu Dhabi.
He was himself in Abu Dhabi. What an energy of
a person. He's so amazing. And the scene was
talking about resilience as the basic quality
of an entrepreneur. You can't go without it if
you want to do a big thing and you want to do
a thing that is highly loaded with science, that
is innovative, that is new, and that needs to
be, I would say, adjusted to market situations,
different kinds of players. So it's a lot of
work. And I'm feeling it myself because I'm launching
something new and innovative on the market. So
I'm there myself. Luckily enough, I have very
high resilience. So I got into entrepreneurship
also because I've had my own test and I understand
I have that resilience. Also ability to prevent
your own errors. For example, when you deal with
employees on a daily basis, sometimes there are
personalities that tend to repeat the same mistakes
over and over again. You tell them, okay, you
have this mistake here, please don't do that
again. And the person stumbles into it again
and again and again. It's kind of personality.
With Neuroframe, we're aimed at finding best
solutions and support for different kinds of
personalities because No one is perfect. And
no one is totally bad. There are just different
roles and different personalities. For example,
if a person has high mental efficiency, the best
reward for that person is intense work place.
You need to leave marks to that engine. And for
that engine, it is even more important than money.
I've seen it so much. People are giving higher
salaries or bonuses to the people with high mental
efficiency and they give them a promotion and
with a new role the person doesn't have to work
that intensely anymore. And you can look into
the eyes of that person and the light is fading
because that person is not doing what he likes
anymore. My dream is that every company would
create certain personalized roles that would
fit certain qualities of people so that those
people would feel happy because it is such a
big tragedy when a good person, highly skilled
person gets employed by a good company at a great
position and that person becomes so, so unhappy
at that position. It's a tragedy. And I want
to prevent that. And sometimes very small adjustments
need to happen. For example, stop micromanaging
a person that is highly conflicted. I couldn't
agree more with you on that one. I hate micromanagers.
Exactly. And for some people, micromanagement
is actually healthy because they love to interact.
They want to feel a constant human connection.
And if you take that highly agreeable person
in a separate place, in a separate room, and
some companies advertise this as elements of
promotion, elements of power, you get your own
office with an assistant. So you are somehow
separated from the team. And highly agreeable
person will lose its shine, will lose its, I
would say, sparkle in such environment. So probably...
Just keep that person in the human environment
and you will make this person happy. So do you
think your solution is actually helping out with
mental health in the workplace? Because by making
this small adaptation, I would assume you actually
reduce the stress that people would have in their
normal jobs, right? I mean, if you don't want
to be micromanager and you do tests and tells
you, hey, this person is not to be micromanager,
they can actually deliver, but give those tiny
tasks to someone else. So have you been given
feedback saying how impactful it has been on
people's lives? Well, I'm receiving those commands
so much because we provide to our clients the
report that is limited by those eight verticals
that I described to you. But the data that they
collect is way, way, way, way wider. and it has
amazing cases of application in mental health,
because obviously if a person has a high level
of cortisol, it cuts performance at mental efficiency
level, at gruebleness level. Obviously, people
with childish trauma, they tend to isolate, they
tend to lash out in certain situations, and we
are also able to detect that and also include
it in our report. Well, mental health application
was not our primary goal, but a lot of people
are actually demanding us to go there. So, I
believe it is one of scenarios that we could
employ to expand the value of our game. So, I
thought we would do it by screening the cases
for mental health. And if we do professionally,
we still hold happiness at your workplace, then
you increase overall mental health for the whole
society. Yeah. No, it's something mental health
for me. It's always been quite an important topic.
And the more startups I talk to, the more investors
I talk to, I realize that the ones who are going
to make it are actually the ones who discussed
it in the first place, right? The ones who actually
sit down and say, hey, I'm having some mental
health issues. My anxiety has to be, I might
be feeling a little bit depressed and all those
things. Having your solution, I think really
massively helps to identify What the possible,
I guess, pain points that people are going to
have in the future, isn't it? Because then you
can say, you know what, they're going to run
into this type of issues. Let's create an environment
where they are minimized or we kind of can look
out for them if they tend to happen. So I think
it's going to make a huge difference in the market.
Yep, absolutely. And let's face it, every human
being, especially if we're talking about highly
efficient human beings, every human being has
his own challenges. How does Thomas? Well, thanks
to our parents, they are brilliant and we're
all grateful to them. But all of them are also,
well, imperfect human beings. That's probably
worth having kids for the first time in their
life and it's a great talent. And it is the overall
thing in the society. And getting to know yourself
better... is a great way to actually make your
life happier and to increase your impact. And
with our game, we have to detect your personal
patterns that define your, I would say, autopilot
mode. Because no one of us is like 100 % self
-aware at every minute of our day. If you are
100 % self -aware all the time, wow, what a miserable
life. you're like probably very much stressed
and probably all of your energy goes into self
-monitoring with this phone call I would say.
So with New York phone, we are able to detect
the settings, I would say the basic road for
your autopilot, the best basic settings, the
default settings for your autopilot mode, that
is what you do when you yourself are not watching.
And how hard was it to build this app? Because
you have so many different things that you can
analyze. Was it hard to build the game and all
that? Or how do you even get started with this?
Oh, well, it's just, I guess, a part of my destiny.
It's never been easy for me. I never opt for
easy solutions. It is just the way I'm wired.
It was extremely complicated. We've built a Lamborghini
in terms of human assessment because over 20
years of experience, of research data, over,
say, deep, deep studies of human nature, neuroscience,
neurobiology are integrated into Neuroframe.
We've been building it for over a year altogether.
So it is a complicated product. It's a complicated
engine. Because we are actually something nerds.
We want to be precise. We want to be very much
recognized also in the scientific world. So we
build our engine with the purpose of deep recognition
by the best minds in the industry. So our ambition
is not only to sell the product obviously on
the market, but also to get recognition as the
creators over something innovative, something
true, something precise. So it's extremely complicated.
There is nothing else compared to us in the market.
Was it hard for you to make that transition from
a VC to a startup? Because it's not really the
other way around. And it's quite logical, because
as you see, I've never been in a passive position.
And for numerous portfolios companies that I
have, I usually use the word, we. We, the neosan,
we, the clinic, it's a dental clinic that we
have, not a dental clinic. We here, we there.
And somehow, even as investor, I participate
in business development, all the projects that
I'm advising, that I'm dealing with, that I'm
investing, depending on this scenario. So for
me, it was quite an organic shift. And also,
I started my first business when I was 21. So
I've been, I've always been that, I would say,
active. Pain in the head. I'm not really corporate.
So for me it was probably the easiest thing to
do. As they say in white company nature, you
do a startup not because of money, not because
you can't do anything better. You do a startup
just because. Because it happens and you have
to follow. So this is how it happened. Because
you have such an interesting life story, how
important do you think it is for people to follow
their passions? There is no universal advice
because every personality is different. Sometimes
people are quite happy doing what they do and
sometimes they are exactly where they want to
be. Not everyone has a elevated level of energy,
not everyone has openness to new. And it's totally
fine. So, in my opinion, it is badly, badly important
to follow your passion and to find your identity
and to find your individual recipe for success
and the recipe for happiness. But I'm built this
way. I'm a researcher and that's a personality
that needs to look for things, that needs to
put forth hands, that needs to... create that
environment to create that dynamics. I don't
know why, but I just need to do that. Some people,
they are built otherwise and they need something
else. And it is great to have that variety. How
do you deal with the challenge? Because I'm always
curious to find out more about the way different
entrepreneurs kind of handle the many challenges
they have when building something. So how do
you personally deal with when you have challenges?
Well, of course, you approach that from different
directions and you need to be multidimensional.
Well, it is my approach. In my opinion, it's
hard to be multidimensional. Of course, there
are basics like health level. It's really hard
to run diagnostics, to run testing and to go
into biohacking. Well, I am deeply into biohacking
and one of my projects to... is the chain of
clinics that do IV therapy. That is like a good
supplement. Of course, Andrew Huberman's YouTube
channel is a great helper at that and a deep
research and a deep understanding of your personal
deficits because deficits are always personal.
It really helps. So dealing with your body. in
terms of lifestyle, in terms of physical activity,
in terms of food, in terms of supplements, in
terms of taking basic care of yourself. It is
so important. And sometimes someone is saying,
oh, well, I have a depression. But then, if he
runs a certain test, there is a deficit. This
person starts taking some vitamin B or whatever,
and wow. Depression is gone. So first of all,
it's that basic health level, then mental health,
of course. I have a team of specialists that
help me and I'm so grateful to them. It is obviously
a therapist, a coach, a success coach, like energy
coach. I have my doctor that is always in care.
in contact with me and she's helping me save
my strategy in terms of keeping my body in a
healthy mode. And also one of my projects is
absolutely about deletion of origin and death
from human life. I believe death and aging are
two problems that are first, inevitable, second,
urgent, third, depressing. It's depressing to
have our agent in death. So why not deal with
that? And modern science allows to do incredible
things in terms of research, like developing
new types of chemical compounds. The company
is called Virsion, and it is in the U .S. And
the Virsion company is developing new kinds of
chemical compounds to deal with incurable diseases,
and actuating the disease. I'm very much bullish
on the disruptive models, disruptive chances,
disruptive technologies in this area. Because,
well, stop doing me to molecules, stop doing
me to solutions. It's disruptive. We need to
kill death. This is what I think. Also, of course,
it helps to become more and more self -aware,
to be surrounded by the people that have a similar
mindset. For example, I have a group of entrepreneurs
that are very much in the same state with me.
We're like a very synchronized group, and we
have a certain agreement between us when if someone
of us wants to quit, you always have an option
to call me or write to me like, Oh, I'm about
to quit. And I'm like, okay, have you done this?
Have you done that? Have you done this? Have
you done that? And normally we find very easy,
accessible or hanging fruit to the office or
her situation. So of course, network, your connection
are a big help. And of course, experience. You
build businesses, you build different projects,
you travel. You create a certain your personalized
collection of experiences that keep you alive.
Give you your personal core with your achievement,
with who you actually are. You notice yourself
doing so great, going so proudly and bravely
through all those challenges and at some point
you understand that human nature is like unbeatable.
I love that. I think you're the first guest I've
ever had. I always enjoy asking this question
because I actually get a lot from the question.
I think the audience also gets a lot from the
question. You're the first guest I've had that
actually gave a completely holistic view about
how it's not just one thing. It's actually a
combination of multiple things. And it starts
from the basics, how your body is feeling to
how your mind is feeling, how your energy is,
all those things and how they combine, they actually
give you solution. A follow -up on that one is,
where do you get inspiration from? Well, my case
is not easy. When I was five, people would ask
me, who do you want to be? And I'd say, I just
want to be the richest person in the world. Kids
would answer, I want to be a teacher, I want
to be a doctor, I want to be a driver, I want
to go to, well, I want to go to space, by the
way, Elon. Elon, I'm here. That makes two of
us. Yeah, yeah, I definitely want to travel to
Mars or whatever but I wanted to create an impact.
Then I started reading. When I was seven, I started
reading like, how do you read, which are scientific,
whatsoever. So I was quite a sensitive, sometimes
scary. Well, it is the way it is. So I was deriving
inspiration from books. from especially British
and American writers of 19th -20th century that
would describe the stories of entrepreneurs,
of people of success and how they were building
their stamina, and I was inspired. Later on I
was so lucky to meet so many incredible people
that were inspiring me with their successes,
with their stories, including... and while probably
this is in first place, my father was able to
launch a product of a local factory on international
markets in the mix, doing it alone. No one told
him he needs business development, he needs marketing,
he needs all those people to launch a specific
product for a certain target audience on international
markets. So he just wrote a number of letters.
to American uniform company to phone to a number
of international players asking like guys what
kind of products are missing in your portfolio
what would you buy and those people they just
answered and he just went to the production unit
and told them okay guys if we build this we're
going to sell it to those guys and then he visited
the client and he was selling the stuff No one
told him it was impossible. So he was traveling
all over the globe doing projects. It was kind
of a very intense career path that I was watching
like next to me. He was always telling me like,
you know what? If you want to do something, you
just go and do it. Just do it. And he was telling
me like your capabilities are unlimited. And
also it was supported by a number of people that
I met and also my personal success. I had a very
big financial success, well, in terms of where
I started when I was 24 and it was from zero
to a group of companies. So I experienced it
myself. And after you feel this kind of success,
this kind of achievement. You just won't accept
something minor. You understand, okay, I have
to do it and I have to live that kind of life.
Going back to that smart question of yours regarding
how important it is to follow your passion. For
some people, it is a matter of survival and I've
seen it so many times and it is not, I would
say, a secret. It is not something unknown, that
people get cancer even if they diminish their
power and their personality. For example, I've
seen it many times myself when some people were
at a certain scale, a certain corporate position
and then they experienced that change when they
got fired or there was a change of circumstance
or their skills became irrelevant. And they would
start at a new position in your company, or they
would opt for something smaller. And for some
of them, it's a goal. But for so many, it can
be a cause of severe illness like cancer. There
is the thing called suicide. But it is a very
slow type of suicide people commit. It can be
like a matter of survival. So what tips and tricks
would you give to someone for them to prevent
those type of scenarios from happening but also
to kind of guide them along the journey? And
you mentioned a couple which is just go for it,
just do it. What else would you ask for that?
Well, I would say create your own board of directors,
your own personal board of directors, that is
your team, the people that fit for us, the people
that are The people that are supporting you,
create a group of people that are helping you
thrive and rely on them. Accept your capabilities
and your powers are limited. Accept that and
embrace that and rely on other people. Ask for
help even. Like, openly ask for help if you need
that. Also, well, it's very important to be self
-aware, to use the best achievements of best
available science to support you, take care of
your health, and build your own individual recipe
for happiness. Think about your happiness. It's
very, very important. Thank you. Marie, if people
want to reach out to you, how can you do so?
Well, my Instagram is lablawyer, L -A -B, like
lab, lab, laboratory, and lawyer, like lawyer,
because I have a legal background. What a mistake
it was, but it's okay. Then, of course, LinkedIn,
and also Neuroframe. We have our website, so
please feel free to check this out. It's an amazing
tool, and... In my ideal world, every person
would pass neuroframe tests to know him or herself
better. Also for personal compatibility, because
we're talking to a number of dating websites.
That sounds good. To simplify dating guides,
because the compatibility thing is so important,
especially nowadays when people are... The scenarios,
the family scenarios are changing, people are
changing, so it is also... So important, so important
to find the right partner and to rely on that
partner. It's hard to find the right match, isn't
it? It's a tricky scenario. Absolutely. Like
anywhere, in any area of life. Maria, thank you
so much for your time. I really enjoyed the conversation.
Thank you, thank you. It was enjoyable. Have
a great day. The podcast is also sponsored by
Notion .so. Notion is offering six months for
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