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about innovators, both in business and real life.
Hosted by myself, Ricardo Rescual and Harry McCona.
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Hi, and welcome to another episode of The Innovation
Conversation. Today we are joined by Giulio Zecca.
Giulio, welcome to the podcast. Ricardo, very
happy to be here. Giulio, would you like to introduce
yourself to the audience, please? Yeah, I'm Giulio
Zecca. My name might give it away. I'm Italian.
I was born and raised in Rome, which is a great
city. as a tourist as I always say otherwise
I will still be living there and then I decided
to have other experiences which brought me to
France and then London then Rotterdam in the
Netherlands and then finally in Madrid where
I spent most of my time even if my company still
based in the Netherlands so I have to stay there
and traveling quite a lot for my international
customers so that's pretty much what I'm doing
long story short I graduated with honors in computer
engineering because I think my purpose, which
still is, I still believe technology and innovation
are a way to serve a greater purpose, which is
not always done. So that's why I love being in
podcasts like yours that speak about entrepreneurship,
innovation, because there are examples like this
where things can really be done and where technology
can really help. people, work, society, it depends.
I mean, everyone has a different purpose, but
there is something more than just adding a couple
of megabytes to the capacity of our smartphone
or the pictures that we do. And in all this,
I'm what some people call management consultant
or business advisor. What I like to say is that
basically it's funny how a managing director,
CEO, they talk to me and they want to understand
what's going on in their companies. because decisions
and visions that are taken at high level most
of the time don't really trip down as they should
and so they get lost and slip between the cracks
and so they want to know what's going on they
want to really understand and then see and carry
out and move forward improvements that nobody
has the time for that's in a nutshell but we
can explore even further So it's a question,
because you have a background that you travel
across all of Europe, you've done business in
and around Europe, you're not settled in in a
dream. I have tons of questions about that. But
you also in the process actually know a lot of
startups and advise a lot of business. So I guess
the first question for me is, are there major
differences between doing business in the Netherlands,
Italy, Spain, the UK, or actually when it comes
down to it itself? Well, That's a question for
three podcasts probably, but three episodes.
I would say to narrow it down, yes, there are
differences. Some are cultural differences, which
are inevitable, and probably is what makes us
rich as a continent, I would say. If you're just
talking about Europe, for example, the first
thing you think, and probably you don't even
need to live in Spain to notice that, is that
Spain is a relational country. It means the favor
relation all the transaction so you need to know
what does it mean you need to know people to
get to know other people and have a lot of coffees
i mean i've got a um a friend who moved here
it's like julio it's i mean here is all about
let's keep on talking it's like let's keep on
talking let's yeah let's get a coffee let's get
over lunch okay but when do they do business
i mean they're just taking beers and having lunch
and having breakfast and having coffee and talking
and going to events but when is the business
happening but well the business is happening
besides and beyond these steps i mean in england
we have small talk it's not small talk there
are some unwritten rules even if some someone
started qualifying them and giving hints but
there are some unwritten rules of what you should
or should not say in a small talk. It's mostly
about the weather, isn't it? It's mostly about
the weather. Exactly. And there's also a way
to respond to that. There is this super funny
page that I absolutely love. It's called VIP,
sorry, Very British Problems, VBP, and it talks
about this guy, I mean, asked him and said, it's
getting colder, isn't it? And he said, no, it's
actually quite warm. That's some polite. You're
expected to say something along the lines and
to to agree with me. It's a very British way.
But, I mean, some people make fun of it, but
at the end of the day, it's a sort of qualified
social rule, social norm, where you get to a
small talk, you talk about something, and then,
bam, you get into the business. Now, the equivalent
of small talk in Spain, or in Italy, could be
quite the same. It's sit down, talk about you,
talk about what you do, talk about different
things, talk about society, get a coffee. then
get an old coffee, then probably get a lunch.
I mean, it can take forever. And the main difference
is you never know if and when a relation, so
in a relational country, is going to get to some
business. It's great because you meet a lot of
people, they open a lot of doors. I mean, if
you're nice and you get together well, they open
a lot of doors. They open up opportunities. You
keep on knowing people keep on growing and I
mean the thing and not is moving from the Netherlands
to Madrid Is that in the Netherlands? It's like
it's super rigid. It's yes or no. I Mean, there's
not even that kind of small talk that you would
have in London. So it's like It's interesting.
Yes. No, it's very I mean Dutch people are very
pragmatic it needs to be cheap and functional
I mean, quite the opposite if you think as Italy.
Italy, I mean, culturally speaking and traditionally
speaking, offers a huge generalization, which
I think we're also losing as a country. It's
like thinking about beauty, think about context,
the form, rather than being cheap and functional.
It's like, how can it be well done and elegant?
So, first cultural clash, coming from Italian
background to the Netherlands, then moving from
the Netherlands, which is like yes or no, good
or bad, does it work, does it not work. Move
to Madrid, where it's like okay, let's build
a relation and then we'll see. This is the cultural
part and then there's the, I'll say the practical
part or bureaucratical part, it's like, I mean,
you live in London, you know that to set up a
company takes probably 15 minutes. last time
I checked it was 50 quid, 50 pounds so but that's
it done that doesn't mean you are a business
man and that your business is going great but
that that really means that in in 15 minutes
you can have a company in spain or in italy takes
quite a lot more a lot of money as well right
it takes the initial investment just for setting
up the company techniques and initial investment
now they're changing rules because they're trying
to adapt it to be a bit more have an approach
that is more lean you still need to declare that
you have like i think three thousand or five
thousand euro invested in the company to start
now the business saw that you don't have to actually
you can you have to put this money in the company
but then you can reinvest in the company so they
don't have to stay there in the in the company's
account but still is a barrier and even if you
want to set up as a sole trader I mean in Spain
the taxes you need to pay for different things
like monthly it's like about 300 euro so think
about someone who wants to start a business young
guy young girl like in their 20s okay I got this
idea let me try 300 euro a month just to get
started it's a lot of money ah it hurts a lot
a huge lot I mean, I was coming from a management
career in the Netherlands, which is honestly
pretty well -paid. And yet that was a concern
for me. I mean, if I had to pay 300 euro, 300
-ish euro a month just to see if my idea could
float, I would be really concerned. And to be
honest, in hindsight, it would really have had
an impact on my finances because I jumped and
got off the plane of a management career and
said, okay, let's find something else. I want
to do something else. I want to have an impact
in a different way, the more concrete way than
as a cog in a company. And I'll do that advising
other companies. But I launched myself, I ejected
myself from the plane without having clients,
without having... I had a plan, but as you may
know in an introvership, yes, I got a great plan,
but well, welcome to reality. It's totally different.
that would have had a real impact. Time, investment
in time, any money in the different countries
is very different. In the Netherlands it's much
more similar to as to the UK. It's not that fast,
but it's almost as cheap and it's relatively
fast. I mean, in a matter of a week or so you
got your company. It's easier to deduct business
expenses. as long as they are sound businessmen.
So, I mean, not weird stuff, of course, that's
in any country. And another thing that I quite
like about the system is that the mentality and
the practical things, as we said, bureaucracy,
for example, are meant to set up for success.
If you listen to the World Bank, they show stats
and data of how countries where there are different
hurdles and obstacles for entrepreneurship or
for setting up a business are the ones who are
struggling the most in general with innovation,
with different parameters and I don't remember
the exact data at the moment so I will better
not share something that I'm not exactly sure
about but I could at that moment I was making
a clear comparison between Italy and the Netherlands
and see how in actual fact not having this business
mentality brings the industry backwards or does
not allow the industry to progress and to flourish?
I heard many horror stories last year. I was
talking with someone who works in investment
and he was saying, he comes from Slovenia, and
he was saying, for example, in Slovenia, it's
very common for an investor to actually want
50 % of the business. And as a startup, you think,
well, hold on, I need to give 50 % of my business
And then I said, how much money? What's the normal
ticket size? 400k. So for 100k, I gave 50 % of
my business, which is absolutely ludicrous. You
don't want to set up a business that way. And
I'm just thinking a couple years back, I was
very much into film. And in Portugal, at the
time, just like in Spain, you needed to pay monthly
if you decided to be, you know, I guess a little
bit of an expression, to be self -employed. And
this filmmaker, Luchi, told me, I'm down in the
local finance office, I put myself as a cleaner
instead of a filmmaker, because a cleaner plays
like sex as a filmmaker. I cannot support myself
as a filmmaker, so I just put myself as a cleaner.
But these are all legal barriers to actually
launching businesses and to growing the economy,
isn't it? I don't know. As you said, it's ludicrous
and it shouldn't happen. Different countries,
different norms, different rules, different backgrounds.
Backgrounds when I mean background, I mean also
how this society and economy evolved in that
country. I mean, it's easy to say it shouldn't
be like that. I mean, who are we to judge? But
yes, there are ways to make it more factual and
better from entrepreneurial point of view. Spain
has done a big leap last year for having a new
law for startup. Of course, there's someone who's
saying it is still not enough. Brilliant. I mean,
probably true, but okay, that's really something
to have more people start their own business.
with some kind of safety net. Because that's
a huge... I mean, we talked about the cultural
background and the bureaucratic background. What
was the impact of that? Because that's the most
important thing. Because otherwise we're just
talking philosophy. The impact of that is that
people do not develop an entrepreneurial kind
of mindset. People do not launch themselves in
the cold water trying to invent something new
or trying to bring something new to the table.
in countries like, again, either Spain because
I just know these countries quite well, maybe
Portugal and definitely other countries in the
world will have a similar pattern. Whereas, and
I talk about a continent that I know a little
bit because I also travel into Tunisia and Kenya
for work, in Africa, and to some extent Latin
America, they have this entrepreneurial mindset
because they have no other way. I mean, for evolutionary
reason, talking about work, how work evolved,
they do not have the comfort of, okay, I get
an employment and I get there and I got my salary
and that's it. This is something very, very recent.
If you go to Kenya, this is actually, some economists
and some people, sociologists are saying this
is one of the things that's been detrimental
to a place like Kenya, to a country like Kenya.
that has huge potential because people are now
getting what's happening in Kenya now it's a
kind to what happened in Italy Spain around this
in 1960 people start getting employments they
could get more government job they get more companies
that get start to be big relatively or let's
say big enough to start hiring enough people
people get get hired they get an employment they
get more security the good side of thing is that
and now they can invest in a mortgage to buy
a house so they can build their own house or
buy their own house which is great because helps
the economy move so the process of gentrification
but outside of the coin is they're starting to
indulge in wealth and vices or bad habits that
we know now are bad habits like three cars per
family when you're just two family members, too
much tv, binge eating junk food and all this
kind of status symbol food that is like okay
i can afford it so i can waste food and that's
absolutely bad because the health is decreasing
is declining the habits are declining and it's
absolutely bad and most of all to get back to
our initial topic they are losing their entrepreneurial
spirit but the ones who still have that entrepreneurial
spirit because again they come from a from a
from from situation when they had no other choice
you had to go out there and find a way to get
money to earn your money to sell something this
i mean so when i see european fellows or going
to places like Kenya or Philippines I had someone
I don't know very well went to Philippines last
last summer there can be some similarities in
the situation like all these vendors that are
keep on telling me you want to buy this then
I can give this other thing I can give this for
a discount but okay you bought this then but
what about this one it's a master class in in
entrepreneurship and sales is cross -selling,
up -selling, adapting to the customer, understanding
your customer needs, reading your customer, which
not all of them are good at, and being persistent
in face of no. There's no, no, okay, no to this.
But what about that? Then don't take it personally.
That's absolutely great. And honestly, I think
the two most, well I think I'm quite sure, the
two biggest startup... ecosystems in Africa are
in Nairobi, the capital of Kenya, and in Nigeria.
And I think that's absolutely brilliant, because
they still got this inherited attitude to entrepreneurship,
to selling, and this hunger of conquering something,
even if it's a status or if it's something more
than what they come from, generationally speaking.
but at the same time now with internet artificial
intelligence broadband I mean they got access
through internet they got access to resources
and the market that was unimaginable before so
they got the I mean probably say this not the
same thing as someone who's in the Silicon Valley
okay probably but they have almost the same conditions
in terms of technology and access to technology
and access to the market and they have a spirit
that is unstoppable and this is one of the reasons
why they say Africa is the next continent coming
up and watch out because it's going to be I mean
if it keeps on going as it is because I don't
have a crystal magical bowl where I can see but
It's going to be next continent. It's going to
be absolutely great. And some startups in Nigeria
and Kenya are doing great things and are getting
from there. I mean, I know a couple that went
from Nigeria to Y Combinato. And I was supposed
to advise one of them, then they got lost somehow.
Things that happen. And I was speaking with the
CEO and they were doing great things. Being in
operations, the CEO was fascinated by what I
do, I was fascinated by what they were doing,
so I was like, you could be a great advisor.
But I mean, from Nigeria, scaling nationally,
and, fun, Y Combinato, the most successful and
the biggest and most renowned accelerator in
the city of Bali. So that happens, and that's
going to have a huge impact. It's funny we're
talking about Nigeria, because my last dance
is actually... Massive player in the Nigerian
ecosystem. So we were just talking about that
which we let speak Gucci Gucci and each if you
want to listen in And I'll make sure you do as
well. I'm just talking about the way they move
so fast, but I remember a couple years ago people
were discussing how Using mobile apps was the
rate of adoption in Europe was actually slower
than the rate of option in Nigeria Reason being
was we're so stuck on the left off in Europe
was in there. They completely you know Personal
computer like a phone I can do everything for
my phone awesome. Let me start doing a lot more
stuff on my phone so that the rate of people
using their phones and the Mobile banking at
the time was actually crazy because everyone's
just using their phones since he did the job
it was so much better and you know, but for efficient
for the agency since They are growing massively
big and it's something I think more investors
and more companies should start thinking about
it. Exactly. I wish I had some clue on that on
how to get to this, but if you think about numbers,
one of the small parenthesis, when I got into
entrepreneurship, I think, man, I love Brazil.
I went to Brazil three times. traveling solo,
three, four weeks at a time, know it very well.
And I said, man, if you, I mean, we're talking
and thinking about the next great idea, but if
I could sell an app, one euro per person in Brazil,
it's like how many people, 190 million, I think,
it's more than numbers. Just make the numbers.
Think about Africa, it's a huge continent. And
exactly, I mean, we... We I mean not not we you
and I but I mean in Europe many players Still
look at Africa as the yes Africa the country
that festival I mean a lot of time you will hear
Talking about Africa as a country or is this
a huge continent? We don't remember how many
countries but a lot with a lot of variety internal
clashes internal different cultures so Yes, it
is a very segmented market, but mmm probably
less segmented than Europe for some extent and
it's a huge market and they still not look at
that as a the next big thing. I mean and when
you mentioned about apps I mean it gives me some
light because I've been to Kenya 10 times and
if also I mean just not for holidays a couple
of times for some I mean it was connecting holidays
with some business meetings and also I have been
supporting a a volunteering project down there.
So I also got to know the tourist side, which
is absolutely marvelous. Got to know a bit of
the business side very little, but already a
bit of how it works. And even the internal areas
and the land where most tourists would not go,
the vast majority would not go. And when you
go to these rural areas where in some cases it
had not been raining for two years in a row,
and still find a way to make things happen and
to make agriculture somehow you will find no
water no electricity but you will find two things
coca -cola and i wonder how awful it should taste
coca -cola with 40 degrees outside and no refrigerator
but still you can find coca -cola you can find
coke and that's pretty impressive and the second
thing you will find are mobile phones Because
in a very unstructured country, very unstructured
infrastructure, what really helps is set these
mobile phones. I mean, talking about back in
time, talking about early 2000s, so they didn't
have smartphones. With that, someone with a great
business mindset created Now we call it a fintech
system where it's called M -Pesa. Have you ever
heard about that? Exactly. It was built in Kenya
and it's... I mean, up to date, still today,
I can't believe how efficient that is and how
widespread and fast and common to use. I mean,
you go to a water kiosk in the middle of... almost
in the middle of nowhere because they have water
and bottles almost in the middle of nowhere,
not literally. And if you have M -Pesa, yes,
come, pay it. If you have any cash, okay, send
M -Pesa, I give you cash. I mean, it's... People
were struggling with the whole concept here.
Like, why am I replacing my card or my, um, my
cash with just taking my phone? I mean, only
after Apple paid for the loan, or people actually
got the whole concept. Before that, people were
not getting the concept, like, why should I use
this? Fuckers, you pay less to the bank, really?
No, I don't think that. So, yeah. well the whole
concept on paying less for the bank is pretty
tricky here in Europe and also about systems
like M -Pesa or other systems that are much so
immediate to having a monetary exchange and people
say like well I think it's fine for me they don't
understand what what fees are paying in the bank,
what are the delays in trying money transfer,
what they're not simply not interested. There's
more and more awareness. But for example, when
I moved 2017, June 2017, I moved from London
to Rotterdam. And I could not believe that the
Netherlands, a country that has historically
been so strong in banking, and that make finance
and banking one of their main activities basically
as a country, I still had to pay for a bank transfer,
and it was not immediate. You should go to Portugal.
It's the same thing. I mean, that's every time
I go there. Exactly. But I mean, in Italy, they're
getting better now. They're still not there yet,
not all banks. But again, as we were mentioning
before, Italy is not a country where innovation
and entrepreneurship is so high. They have stronger
points. like industry, factories, etc. Telecommunications
is very strong, not talk about tourism and food,
which even Italians and even some ministers mentioned
that as, oh, we should rely on this. Yeah, you
could rely on this as a part of your strategy,
but you can't solely rely on tourism and food.
I mean, let's be serious. Let's be absolutely
serious, especially in a country that wasn't
the G7. and had an industrial background was
absolutely strong and now you're trying to destroy
it just by saying yeah let's we should rely on
tourism and food now what about infrastructure
entrepreneurship when i say entrepreneurship
i mean i mean not not just startups in this case
but i mean businesses helping big businesses
big companies medium big companies giving allowing
them better bureaucracy or or more lean, bureaucracy,
and all the kind of, I wouldn't say facilitation
in terms of easing their lives, but there are
a lot of complications, unnecessary complications
for a business owner, especially for big businesses
that shouldn't be there if you want the business
to flourish. But Intel produces so much stuff.
I mean, I'm just thinking historically, you have
the car manufacturers in Italy, huge. You have
things like the aeronautical industry, also you
ship production. These are all major major industries
and it really has been a major European powerhouse
and global powerhouse for many many many centuries
actually. If I'm telling I'm just thinking how
can we get more of this? How can we get more?
Yes but no because many Italians including again
politicians and ministries are thinking about
okay That's something we should maintain, but
I mean, I have the impression it's not a huge
focus on this. It is changing lately, but still
not that much. I mean, if you don't have industries,
if you don't have the industry, if you don't
have factories, you don't have those big businesses,
what's left? Governmental employments, which,
I mean, let's keep how efficient they are and
how useful they are. because a huge conversation
around this is pretty complex. And the second
one is tourism and food. So what do they do there?
Functionaries, tourism and food. Country cannot
sustain itself on this. So there is huge need
to be competitive again. Just pushing more, helping
more, trying to have strategies and investments
and incentives for industries, factories, businesses,
because they are the ones that hire people. They
give work to other people They make them the
economy time if you if you make very difficult
for business to succeed to sustain itself And
then I mean the economy does not flow. I mean
simple as it goes You know, I love talking with
you but going back to your work with the startups
can tell me more about it You're getting to the
company What exactly different different ways
one thing I think I like to to do As a person
one thing that makes me makes me happy and makes
me it feels absolutely natural to me is mentoring
so That's Mentoring is a bit different from coaching
also the coaching but mentoring is more like
okay. I've been there done that I've been done
something similar and I'll give you my perspective
which is turning really useful in two cases in
startups and with middle and high managers in
companies because what for me is absolutely normal
and I say with very humbly is I had to get out
beyond the imposter syndrome to say what's normal
for me is not so normal for other people is to
having lived and worked in every in five different
countries a huge US corporate and small niche
company, so different levels of company, different
size of company with clients almost literally
worldwide. I mean, in all continents for sure.
And this is something that is pretty valuable
to some people who look at it and say, okay,
I know I'm not perfect. I know I don't have all
the answers. And mentoring is not about having
all the answers. It's about, I've seen different
things. Let's exchange ideas, see a different
perspective. Ask those tricky questions that
make you think bad about something and maybe
give you the ha ha moment and So when I started
getting involved with startups It was a bit like
this. It was in a I first started with an incubator
Then got into an axle, you know, especially Spain
as with mattress goes by referral. Oh, don't
would you do that great at this? Okay Start getting
an incubator then an accelerator, then I got
into the IE Institute of Empresa. It's a MBA,
it's a business school, so they have a special
path for entrepreneurial MBA and giving advice
and mentoring to startups in the business school.
And that's great because that's a part of, first
of all, giving back. Then it really makes me,
I mean, it fascinates me. I got the great opportunity
of getting to know people that have so many ideas
that will say, man, that's incredible. How could
you have that idea? Or they have so much certainty
and drive to bring their idea forward. They're
saying, man, I admire your drive. And also to
listen to new ideas that i would have never thought
of so that would say mentoring is a two -way
thing i mean just having this wow moment and
having this great thing is for me it's absolutely
enriching and the good thing of course getting
beyond the impulsive syndrome is that my expertise
that for me is absolutely normal for other people
it's like they look at it and say okay and i
would never thought of that i mean did you how
did you how you got out of the situation in that
way or in some cases of course it's also about
vulnerability so actually guys i did this it
went bad or really bad don't try this at home
or i tried this it went bad for this reason so
maybe use it with caution and integrate this
with this other technique and it's it's absolutely
fascinating Talking about the imposter syndrome,
sometimes it's a bit challenging because I find
myself there and I look at this... It's not always
young because there's a myth that startup is
a world for young people only. And by the way,
the stats tell us that the best age to succeed
in a startup is 43 years old. So not 20, and
you don't need to, you know, be Mark Zuckerberg
or something like that. Exactly. I mean, it can
be, but... it doesn't necessarily have to be
so I'm there and I look at these young people
super motivated super I'm gonna eat the world
kind of attitude and like who am I to give advice
to these guys seriously but then again since
it's a two -way thing it's always been really
enriching and I found myself giving advice on
marketing I mean if you I generally master quite
well for what I do all the verticals of the company
because I need to do I'm mostly into operations
and processes, but this means that I need to
understand how customer service works, how sales
works, how finances go, because at the end of
the day, that's what gives us bread to eat and
all other areas. But marketing, it's really not
much my thing. But I found myself giving advice
on marketing strategies and people were like...
flabbergasted and say how do you know this how
do you think about that it's just experience
with different companies i mean you you're running
one company that's my one of my former former
business coaches used to say i mean you you were
it was very straightforward you run a company
right yes and how hard it is it's very hard do
you find yourself struggling to make some decisions
and understand how to make things yes do you
have time do you have a lot of spare time no
So, do you think your experience is great to
manage your company because all the dedication
you put and all the experience you're getting
from this company? Yes. Well, think about me,
that I manage or co -manage or advise in 15 different
companies at a time. It's like, boom! I wouldn't
be so brave, I wouldn't be so direct, I wouldn't
be so daring, but there's some truth to when
you've seen different things, different companies
in different countries, in different stages,
in different... faces. I don't even, if you ask
me what did I learn, I don't know. But what I
know for a fact, what I know for sure is that
when you present me to a problem, I will see
it from, my brain will automatically see it from
different angles and try to find different solutions
that are not just the standard solution and trying
to poke a bit in different directions to see
where it goes. And that's something I absolutely
love. And back to the Impulso syndrome sometimes
there are some startups and it's very difficult
being a mentor or an advisor as a startup because
some of them since they are so young so motivated
so yes we're gonna our solution is going to change
the world and sometimes I'm not very willing
to listen and that's tricky and sometimes I find
myself I found myself in a situation... I'm not
talking about just Madrid ecosystem, so think
about... I mean, what I'm going to say, and scale
it at a country level, or a continent level,
or a world level. We are presenting this solution,
ABC, that's great, and nobody does this. So,
well, I've been to another incubator last week,
someone is doing exactly the same thing, and
it's basically the same way. Guys, I would strongly
suggest that the two of you get in touch, because...
I know you want to have your own idea and how
strong this desire, your ego, even a bit of ego
involved, to have your own idea out to the world.
Here you're just doing two very similar things.
Even if it's just exchanging ideas, I really
suggest that you meet up and talk. And the ideal
outcome would be that you find a way to collaborate
because you can get something great out. It's
much easier with... If you have the contours
of both of you and you have the ideas mixed and
mingled, then if you go alone and they say no,
it's not possible, we will do it differently.
Without even knowing what exactly the other party
does. It's like, what's it gonna be, Mark Coney
and Alexander Bell, right? They're going at the
same thing at the same time. Well, you know,
back then it was so difficult to, well, on one
hand it was more difficult for technological
and distance reasons, on the other hand it was
more... maybe more popular people say okay so
we're not so many inventors in the world to someone
doing something similar in the united states
better look at what he is doing and the the other
thing i found about the imposter syndrome and
getting back to the to the same one is that sometimes
some some of these super super energized entrepreneurs
or start -upers as we call them they just say
I mean sometimes they say very lightly or very
firmly I would say what one the most firm way
one told me what the guy once told me it was
a friend so it was not meaning to be mean but
it was it was like Giulio if you're so great
at being an interim manager interim executive
mentoring executives advising startups Why don't
you start your own business?" And I was like,
dude, you're just poking, you're just rubbing
the finger in, like I'm alleged at what I'm doing.
And I'm like, I'm a very reflexive guy, so instead
of jumping at a straw, I'll just reflect and
say, okay, I understand your question, it makes
sense. And at the same time, I think I've got
different skills and different characteristics.
I mean, what? these guys doing setting up a startup
and having this great innovative idea, I probably
would not be that good at that. Whereas, you
would not be that good at understanding how management
works, how to organize the work, how to make
work efficient, how to organize operations, and
now to have a big picture and get all the cogs,
put them together and make the work in a smooth
way. And also, maybe I could do that, but doesn't
mean that's the best thing I could do. It's like
if you say, Giulio, you said that one of the
examples you managed to, with just a couple of
hours of consulting, you managed to lower the
cost of a factory in Ecuador by 6%. Real fact.
I feel so good at that. Why don't you become
a CFO? I'm not a CFO. I'm not even close to the
CFO. Yes, I can give advice that helps finance,
but I'm not a CFO. I'm very different. We just...
I think there's this... Some founders have this
fire in them that makes things like, okay, we
are so much better than the other because we
are entrepreneurs. On one hand, it's true. On
the other hand, it doesn't mean you're above
the other world. It's just entrepreneurship,
especially today. Today, I mean, it's been a
few years now. it's a team sport i mean the self
-made entrepreneur self -made millionaire they
still happen it's a myth from it's not a myth
it's a story from the united states of america
it was and many people got a self -made millionaire
self -made entrepreneur they got to great great
results it was a different time the united states
of america is not europe and now And now even
in the United States of America is a different
thing. Things have become so specialized that
you don't have, apart from rare cases, you don't
have someone who's great at artificial intelligence
and marketing and whatever name, whatever vertical.
Even if you only talk about computer engineering
and IT. When I got into the was relatively simple
I Mean not as simple as before but was relatively
simple already when I got out of university a
few years later You already had different specializations
that did not exist before and I don't even mention
the how Exponentially grew all the time. So if
you want someone to be very good at something
cannot be for all areas something talking about
self -made entrepreneurs and and then And had
he not had that support, he would never have
made it. And he recognizes the value that they
brought to his life. It's the same thing when
you're launching a business. Everyone I talk
to, I think the ones who are most successful,
the ones who are willing to listen, willing to
ask questions, and willing to take that advice
on board, you're not going to be able to do the
same thing. But being able to say, you know what,
I don't know, let me go and ask them the same
direction, let me go and ask them how, It's a
million times better than just knocking your
head in every single wall you find until you
manage to get through it. Yeah, it's not gonna
happen that quickly. I love that you mentioned
advisory board because there is also a personal
mission, maybe it's too strong as a word, but
it's a personal campaign that I'm trying to do
because in the UK it's pretty normal. I'm in
a board of directors of a company, I'm in a board
of advisors of another one. I'm not trying to
get more roles on the board because it's again
it's something that I mean when I do that I feel
like at home and people find a benefit so it's
you know this kind of icky guy thing so win -win
it's win for me it's win for society I get paid
for that they get economical benefits from that
it's win for everyone but it's pretty tricky
because In the UK it's pretty normal, so I'm
in some associations and groups for Board of
Advisors, Board of Directors, and I see how in
London, because still look at London as if I
were living there, but I'm not, so I still got
attached to London emotionally, and I see how
many things come out there, Board of Advisors,
Trustee, Board of Directors, different roles,
and every week there's something coming out,
something that I mean a lot. Spain, Italy, silence.
It's not normal for a company to have a board
of advisor. They may have a board of director,
and this happens in two cases. If they are indexed
in the stock exchange, so if they are good public
there, they need to have actionaries and shareholders,
and so they need to have a board of directors.
Or if it's a family business, which is even worse.
I made a post to shake a little bit the system
the other week. Your family is not a board of
advisor. It's actually worse than having a board
of advisor. Is it not having that? Because you
have internal conflicts, internal politics, communication
issues. You might not want to say this to avoid
hurting the feelings or... impacting the relationship
with the other person so it's a board of directors
because you have you, your sister, your cousin,
your father on the board but that's a board of
directors which is not a board of advisors first
of all and it's not an independent board of directors
so you don't have independent advice you don't
have someone looking at knowing how things are
going in the industry and the world out there
and giving independent unbiased advice which
sometimes can backfire and sometimes I found
myself giving someone sound advice and being
treated not in a nice way because they didn't
like what I'm saying but that's my role not getting
told words but saying something that's maybe
uncomfortable or unpleasant surfacing something
bringing out to light something that maybe we
don't want to discuss now but then eventually
we need to discuss but that's why you have them
in the first place isn't it because it's a bit
like If you think about the classical war games,
for example, there's a reason why people do war
games. The reason is you need to have someone
telling you a comfortable truth and at the same
time you gotta help them. So again, if you have
that in a more wise sense, if you say, what about
this angle, that angle, what about that angle?
Then you're like, okay, no, yes, no, and then
you try and navigate that. That actually makes
you better suited to run the business, that if
everyone's saying, everything's gonna be wonderful,
everything's gonna rain, it's gonna be sunshine
all the time, well actually no, it's gonna rain.
Bare fruit for that eventuality. You bought yourself
an umbrella. How does it look like? What if you
range for the rest of the month? So things like
that make a huge difference. I mean, now that
you say that, it comes a metaphor to mind. Just
made it up. I mean, not having a bolt of advisor
is like hiding the dust below the carpet. Yeah,
exactly. I mean, eventually it comes out. I mean,
I'm trying to connect with more people, more
advice internationally, not only in Italy and
Spain, to create more awareness, to stop publishing
articles, publishing on LinkedIn, making videos,
not me alone, not just myself, but other people,
to create awareness, to people get more... kind
of this... they get more sensitive to this kind
of topic and they start understanding maybe it's
a good thing to have because here's another thing
and and when they have it in most cases I was
in a meeting just three weeks ago here in Madrid
and I was saying yes most I mean someone who
made a book about board of directors and board
of advisors spanish knows the spanish ecosystem
very well he sits on different boards said man
most of the boards People are, as they're called
in Spain, palmeros, which means people who clap
their hands. They just clap, they're just there
and say, oh yeah, yeah, very brilliant decision.
Did you, I mean, maybe they put this mini challenge
like, oh, did you think about this in a slight
different nuance of thing? Yeah, but that's not
a board of advice. That's someone who, that's
our supporters. You're creating a lobby, you're
creating a clique at a direction level to to
support what you're doing. Which can make sense,
but... Nice to know. And the iceberg is this.
It's gigantic on the bottom, and you only see
the tip of the iceberg. And the tip of the iceberg
is actually what's going to cause the accident
or the disaster, whatever it might be. But there's
so much underneath the water that you cannot
see. So the whole culture in the Saralan is built
around, let's identify the bottom of the iceberg
before it becomes a problem. So you have so many
mechanisms built in that actually enable you
to say, look, this is all working here. Yeah,
that's a great example and I was thinking along
and In actual fact, I can also see many companies,
to be honest, struggling a bit. So, in the day
-to -day activities, the daily activities and
so they say... I mean, I've seen there's an aspect
there. I don't have... Yes, I've seen there's
an aspect there. The other one you mentioned,
I don't see that. It's too far away. I'm just
thinking about surviving the next two months.
And you're thinking about the next two years.
so i don't see that far and i'm just seeing those
icebergs that you mentioned i know about them
but they as first as you say they don't realize
that if they see the iceberg that much then there's
much more that do not see that should be brought
up to light and the second thing is i say since
they are striking they just don't can't take
their head up and have the time and effort to
do something about it. It's just, they're so
stressed with the duties and the payments and
the invoices and providing services to customer
and arranging their own internal things that
they feel they can't. That's a paradox because
if you had different strategic guidance, you'd
probably solve some of these problems and you
could drive in a smoother way or you could navigate
smoothly. But since you didn't take the time,
you don't take the time, you keep on being in
the same washing machine again and again. Julio,
as we're reaching the end of the podcast, if
people want to reach out to you and find more
about everything you do, how can you do so? What's
best for you? Well, I would say first of all
on LinkedIn, Julio Zirca, I try to post somewhat
regularly about entrepreneurship, management,
good practices, operations. and even some of
the more... I mean, we discussed today topics
that touch upon these points but a bit more elaborated
or they get to a bigger extent and a bigger reach
than just that. For example, talking about social
economic impact of business and what the governments
could do about this. Not talking about politics
at all, but there are some measures that doesn't
matter what government that could support. entrepreneurship
and good businesses and good companies. So LinkedIn
for sure. I think that's the first approach.
And then with platform like yours, I really loved
being on your podcast. So thanks very much. Hope
you had a great conversation. What do you think
about? My last question to you if I have two
minutes, what do you think about? Since it's
part of my mission, as I said, how do you think
that we could make this concept of both of advisors
more widespread in Europe or in Southern Europe?
Having a Portuguese background does help, obviously.
I think it comes out to one thing is we need
to understand that failure is part of life and
that being wrong is something that happens a
lot of times. And going back to the aviation
analysis, the plane is actually not pointing
the right direction 99 % of the time it's not
pointing let's say you want to go from London
to Madrid it's not a straight line in fact it
goes there's a couple of variants in the angle
of time it's the same thing in life and business
so being aware of that and being aware actually
I need some advisors to make sure that I'm on
the right path and they can guide me on my journey
or best way to achieve my destination that's
me so I would just you know And you force that
message over and over again with people saying
you're gonna make mistakes. But as long as people
aren't asking questions, as long as you realize
you are gonna make mistakes, you're not gonna
be 100 % sure all the time, that's completely
fine. You can still continue growing your business.
Because when it comes down to it, it's your determination,
it's your grit, it's your passion. That's the
things you need to be strong at. Not knowing
the answer, that's completely fine. Because you're
never gonna know the answer fully. It might be
the right answer right now, but it's not gonna
be the right answer forever. So, just a second.
Let's step down and move on. I absolutely love
that you mentioned, not that I'm the right answer,
and it's something I mention in most of my mentorship
sessions. It's like, I mean, people don't like
when I say this, to be honest, but if you think
about that, there's no other way. As society
is now, good or bad, right or wrong, it's not
society, I mean, sorry, in companies. So how
the structure works, it's a pyramid. I mean you
have that many people entry level and you only
have one CEO and the pyramid goes narrowing up
until you get to the CEO level People don't like
when I say this. I'm not saying it's good. I'm
not saying I like it I'm just step beyond this
conversation is but this is how it is So when
you get to the entry level you got a lot of peers
you can talk to and have exchange ideas plus
you have different layers or tiers above you
because I don't like this above and below but
If you look at the hierarchy as it is now considered
as a point of view, you have N plus 1, 2, 3,
4 levels where you can get inspiration, you can
get guidance, you can get better and higher level
ideas. As the more you grow, the less you have
peers, I mean worldwide, not just in the company.
And when you get to the top of the pyramid, you're
just alone at the top of the company and you
can't ask for guidance to the guys that are your
direct reports. Can you? Like you go to the project
manager and say, what do you think about this
strategy decision for the company? Should we
accept this investor or not? So this is an interesting
thing because I've actually changed the perspective
on this one for myself, which is the CEO is not
a know -it -all. CEO is a manager of resources
in my perspective. And that means getting the
best possible solution. The best possible solution
might not come from your own personal opinion.
But then might actually be coming from the project
manager. Might be coming in from the form manager
if you're running a gigantic factory. Exactly.
That's for the level of decisions that need to
come upstream. And absolutely back 100%, 200
% of what you're saying, having been a project
manager and program manager for a few years.
Absolutely back up what you're saying. But the
point is there are some decisions that only this
level can make. And so when you're there, and
you're the person on top of the pyramid, there's
John Maxwell, huge leadership trainer, guru,
expert, call it whatever you want, says if you're
alone at the top, you're doing something wrong.
That's the thing, when you're CEO and you need
to take CEO level decisions with the ones who
do not come upstream, and it's only up to you,
your responsibility, it's of course you listen
to your reports, But then it's your decision,
you need to know. And if you're alone, the world
shouldn't be alone. It's like the more you grow,
the more you need to find a system that supports
you of peers, there are associations, there are
clubs, there are organizations, and there are
board advisors. So I will close the podcast with
an invitation. If you're looking for Because
you said how can people reach me out if you're
looking for mentorship or even to know about
mentorship business coaching management consulting
startup investment but especially if you if you're
thinking about if you're curious about the concept
of both advisors to reach out to Ricardo or to
me and will be very happy to Guide you to this
experience doesn't mean that Ricardo or I will
be on your boat, but just the concept alone of
explaining what the advantages are and how to
set it up and how to support during this journey.
It's absolutely great. And to talk about the
benefits very, very quickly. We know that there
are some really pragmatic benefits like increasing
productivity about 20%. There's an increase in
income about 18%. There is increase in sales.
So these are all studied. measured this measurable
impact in all indifference from companies who
do not have both both advisors and the ones who
do so that's that's facts that's out there We
I think I can speak for you as well. We invite
you to really consider this Thing especially
if you're a young startup, but in general whatever
stage of enter entrepreneurship You are that's
something that's going to really support your
mission. Thank you so much for that Thanks a
lot! ODEV Tech is your premier software development
partner. Make sure you check them out at odev
.tech.