WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.859 Welcome to the Innovation Conversation, a podcast 00:00:02.859 --> 00:00:05.419 about innovators, both in business and real life. 00:00:05.879 --> 00:00:08.380 Hosted by myself, Ricardo Rescual and Harry McCona. 00:00:08.480 --> 00:00:11.699 This podcast is also sponsored by ODEV Tech. 00:00:12.439 --> 00:00:14.640 ODEV Tech is your premier software development 00:00:14.640 --> 00:00:18.019 partner. Make sure you check them out at odev 00:00:18.019 --> 00:00:22.399 .tech. The podcast is also sponsored by Notion 00:00:22.399 --> 00:00:25.359 .so. Notion is offering six months for free for 00:00:25.359 --> 00:00:27.859 new users. Make sure you check out our website, 00:00:28.039 --> 00:00:30.640 thestoreofevents .co .uk to read in the software. 00:00:31.940 --> 00:00:34.479 Hi, and welcome to another episode of The Innovation 00:00:34.479 --> 00:00:37.219 Conversation. Today we are joined by Giulio Zecca. 00:00:37.359 --> 00:00:40.439 Giulio, welcome to the podcast. Ricardo, very 00:00:40.439 --> 00:00:43.240 happy to be here. Giulio, would you like to introduce 00:00:43.240 --> 00:00:46.539 yourself to the audience, please? Yeah, I'm Giulio 00:00:46.539 --> 00:00:49.060 Zecca. My name might give it away. I'm Italian. 00:00:49.280 --> 00:00:53.079 I was born and raised in Rome, which is a great 00:00:53.079 --> 00:00:55.880 city. as a tourist as I always say otherwise 00:00:55.880 --> 00:00:59.500 I will still be living there and then I decided 00:00:59.500 --> 00:01:02.259 to have other experiences which brought me to 00:01:02.259 --> 00:01:06.019 France and then London then Rotterdam in the 00:01:06.019 --> 00:01:09.260 Netherlands and then finally in Madrid where 00:01:09.260 --> 00:01:12.700 I spent most of my time even if my company still 00:01:12.700 --> 00:01:16.120 based in the Netherlands so I have to stay there 00:01:16.120 --> 00:01:19.159 and traveling quite a lot for my international 00:01:19.159 --> 00:01:22.319 customers so that's pretty much what I'm doing 00:01:22.319 --> 00:01:27.109 long story short I graduated with honors in computer 00:01:27.109 --> 00:01:30.450 engineering because I think my purpose, which 00:01:30.450 --> 00:01:33.849 still is, I still believe technology and innovation 00:01:33.849 --> 00:01:38.129 are a way to serve a greater purpose, which is 00:01:38.129 --> 00:01:41.629 not always done. So that's why I love being in 00:01:41.629 --> 00:01:44.150 podcasts like yours that speak about entrepreneurship, 00:01:44.349 --> 00:01:47.450 innovation, because there are examples like this 00:01:47.450 --> 00:01:50.450 where things can really be done and where technology 00:01:50.450 --> 00:01:53.750 can really help. people, work, society, it depends. 00:01:53.849 --> 00:01:55.969 I mean, everyone has a different purpose, but 00:01:55.969 --> 00:01:58.829 there is something more than just adding a couple 00:01:58.829 --> 00:02:02.189 of megabytes to the capacity of our smartphone 00:02:02.189 --> 00:02:04.829 or the pictures that we do. And in all this, 00:02:05.170 --> 00:02:08.129 I'm what some people call management consultant 00:02:08.129 --> 00:02:10.729 or business advisor. What I like to say is that 00:02:10.729 --> 00:02:14.689 basically it's funny how a managing director, 00:02:14.849 --> 00:02:17.050 CEO, they talk to me and they want to understand 00:02:17.050 --> 00:02:19.889 what's going on in their companies. because decisions 00:02:19.889 --> 00:02:23.509 and visions that are taken at high level most 00:02:23.509 --> 00:02:26.509 of the time don't really trip down as they should 00:02:26.509 --> 00:02:30.969 and so they get lost and slip between the cracks 00:02:30.969 --> 00:02:33.750 and so they want to know what's going on they 00:02:33.750 --> 00:02:37.169 want to really understand and then see and carry 00:02:37.169 --> 00:02:40.229 out and move forward improvements that nobody 00:02:40.229 --> 00:02:42.870 has the time for that's in a nutshell but we 00:02:42.870 --> 00:02:47.469 can explore even further So it's a question, 00:02:47.669 --> 00:02:49.750 because you have a background that you travel 00:02:49.750 --> 00:02:52.490 across all of Europe, you've done business in 00:02:52.490 --> 00:02:54.169 and around Europe, you're not settled in in a 00:02:54.169 --> 00:02:57.909 dream. I have tons of questions about that. But 00:02:57.909 --> 00:03:00.370 you also in the process actually know a lot of 00:03:00.370 --> 00:03:03.629 startups and advise a lot of business. So I guess 00:03:03.629 --> 00:03:06.509 the first question for me is, are there major 00:03:06.509 --> 00:03:09.009 differences between doing business in the Netherlands, 00:03:09.370 --> 00:03:12.150 Italy, Spain, the UK, or actually when it comes 00:03:12.150 --> 00:03:15.699 down to it itself? Well, That's a question for 00:03:15.699 --> 00:03:18.159 three podcasts probably, but three episodes. 00:03:18.560 --> 00:03:20.419 I would say to narrow it down, yes, there are 00:03:20.419 --> 00:03:23.780 differences. Some are cultural differences, which 00:03:23.780 --> 00:03:27.219 are inevitable, and probably is what makes us 00:03:27.219 --> 00:03:31.780 rich as a continent, I would say. If you're just 00:03:31.780 --> 00:03:34.039 talking about Europe, for example, the first 00:03:34.039 --> 00:03:36.620 thing you think, and probably you don't even 00:03:36.620 --> 00:03:38.879 need to live in Spain to notice that, is that 00:03:38.879 --> 00:03:42.419 Spain is a relational country. It means the favor 00:03:42.419 --> 00:03:46.409 relation all the transaction so you need to know 00:03:46.409 --> 00:03:50.009 what does it mean you need to know people to 00:03:50.009 --> 00:03:53.030 get to know other people and have a lot of coffees 00:03:53.030 --> 00:03:56.469 i mean i've got a um a friend who moved here 00:03:56.469 --> 00:04:00.229 it's like julio it's i mean here is all about 00:04:00.229 --> 00:04:03.169 let's keep on talking it's like let's keep on 00:04:03.169 --> 00:04:05.270 talking let's yeah let's get a coffee let's get 00:04:05.270 --> 00:04:08.129 over lunch okay but when do they do business 00:04:08.439 --> 00:04:11.379 i mean they're just taking beers and having lunch 00:04:11.379 --> 00:04:13.819 and having breakfast and having coffee and talking 00:04:13.819 --> 00:04:15.939 and going to events but when is the business 00:04:15.939 --> 00:04:18.980 happening but well the business is happening 00:04:18.980 --> 00:04:24.139 besides and beyond these steps i mean in england 00:04:24.139 --> 00:04:27.839 we have small talk it's not small talk there 00:04:27.839 --> 00:04:31.660 are some unwritten rules even if some someone 00:04:31.660 --> 00:04:34.040 started qualifying them and giving hints but 00:04:34.040 --> 00:04:36.540 there are some unwritten rules of what you should 00:04:36.540 --> 00:04:40.420 or should not say in a small talk. It's mostly 00:04:40.420 --> 00:04:42.279 about the weather, isn't it? It's mostly about 00:04:42.279 --> 00:04:44.800 the weather. Exactly. And there's also a way 00:04:44.800 --> 00:04:46.860 to respond to that. There is this super funny 00:04:46.860 --> 00:04:49.899 page that I absolutely love. It's called VIP, 00:04:50.220 --> 00:04:54.680 sorry, Very British Problems, VBP, and it talks 00:04:54.680 --> 00:04:59.480 about this guy, I mean, asked him and said, it's 00:04:59.480 --> 00:05:01.720 getting colder, isn't it? And he said, no, it's 00:05:01.720 --> 00:05:04.680 actually quite warm. That's some polite. You're 00:05:04.680 --> 00:05:06.899 expected to say something along the lines and 00:05:06.899 --> 00:05:09.569 to to agree with me. It's a very British way. 00:05:10.730 --> 00:05:14.769 But, I mean, some people make fun of it, but 00:05:14.769 --> 00:05:17.250 at the end of the day, it's a sort of qualified 00:05:17.250 --> 00:05:19.889 social rule, social norm, where you get to a 00:05:19.889 --> 00:05:21.850 small talk, you talk about something, and then, 00:05:21.930 --> 00:05:24.529 bam, you get into the business. Now, the equivalent 00:05:24.529 --> 00:05:27.509 of small talk in Spain, or in Italy, could be 00:05:27.509 --> 00:05:32.470 quite the same. It's sit down, talk about you, 00:05:32.550 --> 00:05:34.910 talk about what you do, talk about different 00:05:34.910 --> 00:05:37.459 things, talk about society, get a coffee. then 00:05:37.459 --> 00:05:39.660 get an old coffee, then probably get a lunch. 00:05:40.259 --> 00:05:45.180 I mean, it can take forever. And the main difference 00:05:45.180 --> 00:05:51.300 is you never know if and when a relation, so 00:05:51.300 --> 00:05:54.120 in a relational country, is going to get to some 00:05:54.120 --> 00:05:57.500 business. It's great because you meet a lot of 00:05:57.500 --> 00:06:00.680 people, they open a lot of doors. I mean, if 00:06:00.680 --> 00:06:03.279 you're nice and you get together well, they open 00:06:03.279 --> 00:06:06.910 a lot of doors. They open up opportunities. You 00:06:06.910 --> 00:06:08.970 keep on knowing people keep on growing and I 00:06:08.970 --> 00:06:11.290 mean the thing and not is moving from the Netherlands 00:06:11.290 --> 00:06:14.689 to Madrid Is that in the Netherlands? It's like 00:06:14.689 --> 00:06:18.550 it's super rigid. It's yes or no. I Mean, there's 00:06:18.550 --> 00:06:20.550 not even that kind of small talk that you would 00:06:20.550 --> 00:06:24.069 have in London. So it's like It's interesting. 00:06:24.569 --> 00:06:27.189 Yes. No, it's very I mean Dutch people are very 00:06:27.189 --> 00:06:30.490 pragmatic it needs to be cheap and functional 00:06:30.829 --> 00:06:34.829 I mean, quite the opposite if you think as Italy. 00:06:35.370 --> 00:06:37.850 Italy, I mean, culturally speaking and traditionally 00:06:37.850 --> 00:06:41.529 speaking, offers a huge generalization, which 00:06:41.529 --> 00:06:44.110 I think we're also losing as a country. It's 00:06:44.110 --> 00:06:46.850 like thinking about beauty, think about context, 00:06:47.009 --> 00:06:50.689 the form, rather than being cheap and functional. 00:06:51.310 --> 00:06:54.089 It's like, how can it be well done and elegant? 00:06:55.250 --> 00:06:58.639 So, first cultural clash, coming from Italian 00:06:58.639 --> 00:07:00.899 background to the Netherlands, then moving from 00:07:00.899 --> 00:07:03.740 the Netherlands, which is like yes or no, good 00:07:03.740 --> 00:07:07.399 or bad, does it work, does it not work. Move 00:07:07.399 --> 00:07:10.259 to Madrid, where it's like okay, let's build 00:07:10.259 --> 00:07:14.379 a relation and then we'll see. This is the cultural 00:07:14.379 --> 00:07:17.639 part and then there's the, I'll say the practical 00:07:17.639 --> 00:07:20.819 part or bureaucratical part, it's like, I mean, 00:07:21.060 --> 00:07:22.819 you live in London, you know that to set up a 00:07:22.819 --> 00:07:26.860 company takes probably 15 minutes. last time 00:07:26.860 --> 00:07:31.379 I checked it was 50 quid, 50 pounds so but that's 00:07:31.379 --> 00:07:34.800 it done that doesn't mean you are a business 00:07:34.800 --> 00:07:36.959 man and that your business is going great but 00:07:36.959 --> 00:07:40.420 that that really means that in in 15 minutes 00:07:40.420 --> 00:07:45.420 you can have a company in spain or in italy takes 00:07:45.420 --> 00:07:49.259 quite a lot more a lot of money as well right 00:07:49.259 --> 00:07:51.180 it takes the initial investment just for setting 00:07:51.180 --> 00:07:53.300 up the company techniques and initial investment 00:07:53.300 --> 00:07:55.939 now they're changing rules because they're trying 00:07:55.939 --> 00:07:58.639 to adapt it to be a bit more have an approach 00:07:58.639 --> 00:08:02.420 that is more lean you still need to declare that 00:08:02.420 --> 00:08:05.339 you have like i think three thousand or five 00:08:05.339 --> 00:08:09.399 thousand euro invested in the company to start 00:08:09.399 --> 00:08:12.639 now the business saw that you don't have to actually 00:08:12.639 --> 00:08:14.800 you can you have to put this money in the company 00:08:14.800 --> 00:08:16.860 but then you can reinvest in the company so they 00:08:16.860 --> 00:08:19.600 don't have to stay there in the in the company's 00:08:19.600 --> 00:08:23.040 account but still is a barrier and even if you 00:08:23.040 --> 00:08:25.860 want to set up as a sole trader I mean in Spain 00:08:25.860 --> 00:08:29.379 the taxes you need to pay for different things 00:08:29.379 --> 00:08:33.820 like monthly it's like about 300 euro so think 00:08:33.820 --> 00:08:35.940 about someone who wants to start a business young 00:08:35.940 --> 00:08:39.559 guy young girl like in their 20s okay I got this 00:08:39.559 --> 00:08:43.299 idea let me try 300 euro a month just to get 00:08:43.299 --> 00:08:48.159 started it's a lot of money ah it hurts a lot 00:08:48.159 --> 00:08:52.299 a huge lot I mean, I was coming from a management 00:08:52.299 --> 00:08:55.360 career in the Netherlands, which is honestly 00:08:55.360 --> 00:09:00.720 pretty well -paid. And yet that was a concern 00:09:00.720 --> 00:09:06.179 for me. I mean, if I had to pay 300 euro, 300 00:09:06.179 --> 00:09:10.340 -ish euro a month just to see if my idea could 00:09:10.340 --> 00:09:14.580 float, I would be really concerned. And to be 00:09:14.580 --> 00:09:16.820 honest, in hindsight, it would really have had 00:09:16.820 --> 00:09:20.600 an impact on my finances because I jumped and 00:09:20.600 --> 00:09:22.580 got off the plane of a management career and 00:09:22.580 --> 00:09:25.179 said, okay, let's find something else. I want 00:09:25.179 --> 00:09:26.820 to do something else. I want to have an impact 00:09:26.820 --> 00:09:29.440 in a different way, the more concrete way than 00:09:29.440 --> 00:09:33.179 as a cog in a company. And I'll do that advising 00:09:33.179 --> 00:09:36.039 other companies. But I launched myself, I ejected 00:09:36.039 --> 00:09:37.860 myself from the plane without having clients, 00:09:38.019 --> 00:09:41.039 without having... I had a plan, but as you may 00:09:41.039 --> 00:09:43.299 know in an introvership, yes, I got a great plan, 00:09:44.240 --> 00:09:46.840 but well, welcome to reality. It's totally different. 00:09:47.230 --> 00:09:53.049 that would have had a real impact. Time, investment 00:09:53.049 --> 00:09:55.710 in time, any money in the different countries 00:09:55.710 --> 00:09:57.669 is very different. In the Netherlands it's much 00:09:57.669 --> 00:10:01.470 more similar to as to the UK. It's not that fast, 00:10:01.490 --> 00:10:05.289 but it's almost as cheap and it's relatively 00:10:05.289 --> 00:10:07.490 fast. I mean, in a matter of a week or so you 00:10:07.490 --> 00:10:13.529 got your company. It's easier to deduct business 00:10:13.529 --> 00:10:18.370 expenses. as long as they are sound businessmen. 00:10:18.549 --> 00:10:20.590 So, I mean, not weird stuff, of course, that's 00:10:20.590 --> 00:10:25.929 in any country. And another thing that I quite 00:10:25.929 --> 00:10:30.629 like about the system is that the mentality and 00:10:30.629 --> 00:10:32.690 the practical things, as we said, bureaucracy, 00:10:32.710 --> 00:10:35.590 for example, are meant to set up for success. 00:10:36.429 --> 00:10:40.649 If you listen to the World Bank, they show stats 00:10:40.649 --> 00:10:45.700 and data of how countries where there are different 00:10:45.700 --> 00:10:49.820 hurdles and obstacles for entrepreneurship or 00:10:49.820 --> 00:10:51.919 for setting up a business are the ones who are 00:10:51.919 --> 00:10:55.960 struggling the most in general with innovation, 00:10:56.440 --> 00:11:00.240 with different parameters and I don't remember 00:11:00.240 --> 00:11:01.980 the exact data at the moment so I will better 00:11:01.980 --> 00:11:04.039 not share something that I'm not exactly sure 00:11:04.039 --> 00:11:07.080 about but I could at that moment I was making 00:11:07.080 --> 00:11:10.080 a clear comparison between Italy and the Netherlands 00:11:10.080 --> 00:11:16.029 and see how in actual fact not having this business 00:11:16.029 --> 00:11:19.049 mentality brings the industry backwards or does 00:11:19.049 --> 00:11:21.690 not allow the industry to progress and to flourish? 00:11:22.889 --> 00:11:26.470 I heard many horror stories last year. I was 00:11:26.470 --> 00:11:29.889 talking with someone who works in investment 00:11:29.889 --> 00:11:32.389 and he was saying, he comes from Slovenia, and 00:11:32.389 --> 00:11:34.649 he was saying, for example, in Slovenia, it's 00:11:34.649 --> 00:11:36.830 very common for an investor to actually want 00:11:36.830 --> 00:11:40.590 50 % of the business. And as a startup, you think, 00:11:40.649 --> 00:11:42.870 well, hold on, I need to give 50 % of my business 00:11:43.019 --> 00:11:44.960 And then I said, how much money? What's the normal 00:11:44.960 --> 00:11:48.820 ticket size? 400k. So for 100k, I gave 50 % of 00:11:48.820 --> 00:11:50.840 my business, which is absolutely ludicrous. You 00:11:50.840 --> 00:11:52.820 don't want to set up a business that way. And 00:11:52.820 --> 00:11:55.240 I'm just thinking a couple years back, I was 00:11:55.240 --> 00:11:58.519 very much into film. And in Portugal, at the 00:11:58.519 --> 00:12:01.100 time, just like in Spain, you needed to pay monthly 00:12:01.100 --> 00:12:05.600 if you decided to be, you know, I guess a little 00:12:05.600 --> 00:12:08.519 bit of an expression, to be self -employed. And 00:12:08.519 --> 00:12:11.419 this filmmaker, Luchi, told me, I'm down in the 00:12:11.419 --> 00:12:14.039 local finance office, I put myself as a cleaner 00:12:14.039 --> 00:12:16.620 instead of a filmmaker, because a cleaner plays 00:12:16.620 --> 00:12:19.299 like sex as a filmmaker. I cannot support myself 00:12:19.299 --> 00:12:21.139 as a filmmaker, so I just put myself as a cleaner. 00:12:21.440 --> 00:12:24.759 But these are all legal barriers to actually 00:12:24.759 --> 00:12:26.659 launching businesses and to growing the economy, 00:12:26.720 --> 00:12:29.639 isn't it? I don't know. As you said, it's ludicrous 00:12:29.639 --> 00:12:31.879 and it shouldn't happen. Different countries, 00:12:32.080 --> 00:12:34.379 different norms, different rules, different backgrounds. 00:12:34.639 --> 00:12:36.740 Backgrounds when I mean background, I mean also 00:12:36.740 --> 00:12:39.059 how this society and economy evolved in that 00:12:39.059 --> 00:12:42.480 country. I mean, it's easy to say it shouldn't 00:12:42.480 --> 00:12:46.100 be like that. I mean, who are we to judge? But 00:12:46.100 --> 00:12:48.659 yes, there are ways to make it more factual and 00:12:48.659 --> 00:12:51.759 better from entrepreneurial point of view. Spain 00:12:51.759 --> 00:12:57.620 has done a big leap last year for having a new 00:12:57.620 --> 00:12:59.860 law for startup. Of course, there's someone who's 00:12:59.860 --> 00:13:02.139 saying it is still not enough. Brilliant. I mean, 00:13:02.320 --> 00:13:04.299 probably true, but okay, that's really something 00:13:04.299 --> 00:13:08.740 to have more people start their own business. 00:13:10.060 --> 00:13:14.759 with some kind of safety net. Because that's 00:13:14.759 --> 00:13:17.259 a huge... I mean, we talked about the cultural 00:13:17.259 --> 00:13:20.080 background and the bureaucratic background. What 00:13:20.080 --> 00:13:21.980 was the impact of that? Because that's the most 00:13:21.980 --> 00:13:23.740 important thing. Because otherwise we're just 00:13:23.740 --> 00:13:27.059 talking philosophy. The impact of that is that 00:13:27.059 --> 00:13:30.960 people do not develop an entrepreneurial kind 00:13:30.960 --> 00:13:33.440 of mindset. People do not launch themselves in 00:13:33.440 --> 00:13:36.299 the cold water trying to invent something new 00:13:36.299 --> 00:13:38.740 or trying to bring something new to the table. 00:13:39.410 --> 00:13:41.990 in countries like, again, either Spain because 00:13:41.990 --> 00:13:45.149 I just know these countries quite well, maybe 00:13:45.149 --> 00:13:47.570 Portugal and definitely other countries in the 00:13:47.570 --> 00:13:52.110 world will have a similar pattern. Whereas, and 00:13:52.110 --> 00:13:54.850 I talk about a continent that I know a little 00:13:54.850 --> 00:13:57.090 bit because I also travel into Tunisia and Kenya 00:13:57.090 --> 00:14:02.470 for work, in Africa, and to some extent Latin 00:14:02.470 --> 00:14:04.929 America, they have this entrepreneurial mindset 00:14:04.929 --> 00:14:13.820 because they have no other way. I mean, for evolutionary 00:14:13.820 --> 00:14:16.080 reason, talking about work, how work evolved, 00:14:16.940 --> 00:14:20.539 they do not have the comfort of, okay, I get 00:14:20.539 --> 00:14:22.899 an employment and I get there and I got my salary 00:14:22.899 --> 00:14:26.159 and that's it. This is something very, very recent. 00:14:26.879 --> 00:14:30.240 If you go to Kenya, this is actually, some economists 00:14:30.240 --> 00:14:32.539 and some people, sociologists are saying this 00:14:32.539 --> 00:14:34.820 is one of the things that's been detrimental 00:14:34.820 --> 00:14:37.759 to a place like Kenya, to a country like Kenya. 00:14:38.090 --> 00:14:42.330 that has huge potential because people are now 00:14:42.330 --> 00:14:46.669 getting what's happening in Kenya now it's a 00:14:46.669 --> 00:14:52.090 kind to what happened in Italy Spain around this 00:14:52.090 --> 00:14:56.190 in 1960 people start getting employments they 00:14:56.190 --> 00:14:59.669 could get more government job they get more companies 00:14:59.669 --> 00:15:03.509 that get start to be big relatively or let's 00:15:03.509 --> 00:15:06.730 say big enough to start hiring enough people 00:15:06.730 --> 00:15:10.049 people get get hired they get an employment they 00:15:10.049 --> 00:15:12.509 get more security the good side of thing is that 00:15:12.509 --> 00:15:15.789 and now they can invest in a mortgage to buy 00:15:15.789 --> 00:15:18.250 a house so they can build their own house or 00:15:18.250 --> 00:15:21.350 buy their own house which is great because helps 00:15:21.350 --> 00:15:24.230 the economy move so the process of gentrification 00:15:24.230 --> 00:15:28.769 but outside of the coin is they're starting to 00:15:28.769 --> 00:15:33.789 indulge in wealth and vices or bad habits that 00:15:33.789 --> 00:15:37.929 we know now are bad habits like three cars per 00:15:37.929 --> 00:15:40.950 family when you're just two family members, too 00:15:40.950 --> 00:15:45.110 much tv, binge eating junk food and all this 00:15:45.110 --> 00:15:47.970 kind of status symbol food that is like okay 00:15:47.970 --> 00:15:51.370 i can afford it so i can waste food and that's 00:15:51.370 --> 00:15:54.509 absolutely bad because the health is decreasing 00:15:54.509 --> 00:15:59.830 is declining the habits are declining and it's 00:15:59.830 --> 00:16:02.950 absolutely bad and most of all to get back to 00:16:02.950 --> 00:16:06.419 our initial topic they are losing their entrepreneurial 00:16:06.419 --> 00:16:12.059 spirit but the ones who still have that entrepreneurial 00:16:12.059 --> 00:16:15.399 spirit because again they come from a from a 00:16:15.399 --> 00:16:17.299 from from situation when they had no other choice 00:16:17.299 --> 00:16:20.379 you had to go out there and find a way to get 00:16:20.379 --> 00:16:23.960 money to earn your money to sell something this 00:16:23.960 --> 00:16:31.039 i mean so when i see european fellows or going 00:16:31.039 --> 00:16:34.620 to places like Kenya or Philippines I had someone 00:16:34.620 --> 00:16:36.899 I don't know very well went to Philippines last 00:16:36.899 --> 00:16:40.179 last summer there can be some similarities in 00:16:40.179 --> 00:16:42.600 the situation like all these vendors that are 00:16:42.600 --> 00:16:44.639 keep on telling me you want to buy this then 00:16:44.639 --> 00:16:47.299 I can give this other thing I can give this for 00:16:47.299 --> 00:16:49.940 a discount but okay you bought this then but 00:16:49.940 --> 00:16:53.279 what about this one it's a master class in in 00:16:53.279 --> 00:16:56.100 entrepreneurship and sales is cross -selling, 00:16:56.279 --> 00:16:58.360 up -selling, adapting to the customer, understanding 00:16:58.360 --> 00:17:01.759 your customer needs, reading your customer, which 00:17:01.759 --> 00:17:04.880 not all of them are good at, and being persistent 00:17:04.880 --> 00:17:09.319 in face of no. There's no, no, okay, no to this. 00:17:09.759 --> 00:17:12.519 But what about that? Then don't take it personally. 00:17:12.940 --> 00:17:16.640 That's absolutely great. And honestly, I think 00:17:16.640 --> 00:17:19.180 the two most, well I think I'm quite sure, the 00:17:19.180 --> 00:17:24.690 two biggest startup... ecosystems in Africa are 00:17:24.690 --> 00:17:27.450 in Nairobi, the capital of Kenya, and in Nigeria. 00:17:27.670 --> 00:17:31.730 And I think that's absolutely brilliant, because 00:17:31.730 --> 00:17:38.170 they still got this inherited attitude to entrepreneurship, 00:17:38.430 --> 00:17:43.490 to selling, and this hunger of conquering something, 00:17:43.849 --> 00:17:47.769 even if it's a status or if it's something more 00:17:47.769 --> 00:17:50.490 than what they come from, generationally speaking. 00:17:51.839 --> 00:17:56.279 but at the same time now with internet artificial 00:17:56.279 --> 00:18:00.480 intelligence broadband I mean they got access 00:18:00.480 --> 00:18:03.819 through internet they got access to resources 00:18:03.819 --> 00:18:08.880 and the market that was unimaginable before so 00:18:08.880 --> 00:18:11.920 they got the I mean probably say this not the 00:18:11.920 --> 00:18:13.960 same thing as someone who's in the Silicon Valley 00:18:13.960 --> 00:18:19.720 okay probably but they have almost the same conditions 00:18:19.720 --> 00:18:21.980 in terms of technology and access to technology 00:18:21.980 --> 00:18:25.460 and access to the market and they have a spirit 00:18:25.460 --> 00:18:30.799 that is unstoppable and this is one of the reasons 00:18:30.799 --> 00:18:34.240 why they say Africa is the next continent coming 00:18:34.240 --> 00:18:38.279 up and watch out because it's going to be I mean 00:18:38.279 --> 00:18:40.380 if it keeps on going as it is because I don't 00:18:40.380 --> 00:18:44.859 have a crystal magical bowl where I can see but 00:18:45.049 --> 00:18:47.589 It's going to be next continent. It's going to 00:18:47.589 --> 00:18:51.569 be absolutely great. And some startups in Nigeria 00:18:51.569 --> 00:18:54.390 and Kenya are doing great things and are getting 00:18:54.390 --> 00:18:56.289 from there. I mean, I know a couple that went 00:18:56.289 --> 00:19:01.690 from Nigeria to Y Combinato. And I was supposed 00:19:01.690 --> 00:19:04.109 to advise one of them, then they got lost somehow. 00:19:05.450 --> 00:19:07.630 Things that happen. And I was speaking with the 00:19:07.630 --> 00:19:10.950 CEO and they were doing great things. Being in 00:19:10.950 --> 00:19:12.970 operations, the CEO was fascinated by what I 00:19:12.970 --> 00:19:14.869 do, I was fascinated by what they were doing, 00:19:14.990 --> 00:19:16.289 so I was like, you could be a great advisor. 00:19:17.170 --> 00:19:19.809 But I mean, from Nigeria, scaling nationally, 00:19:20.750 --> 00:19:23.390 and, fun, Y Combinato, the most successful and 00:19:23.390 --> 00:19:27.130 the biggest and most renowned accelerator in 00:19:27.130 --> 00:19:30.009 the city of Bali. So that happens, and that's 00:19:30.009 --> 00:19:32.890 going to have a huge impact. It's funny we're 00:19:32.890 --> 00:19:34.910 talking about Nigeria, because my last dance 00:19:34.910 --> 00:19:37.650 is actually... Massive player in the Nigerian 00:19:37.650 --> 00:19:40.150 ecosystem. So we were just talking about that 00:19:40.150 --> 00:19:42.650 which we let speak Gucci Gucci and each if you 00:19:42.650 --> 00:19:46.109 want to listen in And I'll make sure you do as 00:19:46.109 --> 00:19:48.950 well. I'm just talking about the way they move 00:19:48.950 --> 00:19:51.849 so fast, but I remember a couple years ago people 00:19:51.849 --> 00:19:56.650 were discussing how Using mobile apps was the 00:19:56.650 --> 00:19:59.170 rate of adoption in Europe was actually slower 00:19:59.170 --> 00:20:02.640 than the rate of option in Nigeria Reason being 00:20:02.640 --> 00:20:04.480 was we're so stuck on the left off in Europe 00:20:04.480 --> 00:20:07.640 was in there. They completely you know Personal 00:20:07.640 --> 00:20:09.619 computer like a phone I can do everything for 00:20:09.619 --> 00:20:11.720 my phone awesome. Let me start doing a lot more 00:20:11.720 --> 00:20:14.059 stuff on my phone so that the rate of people 00:20:14.059 --> 00:20:17.339 using their phones and the Mobile banking at 00:20:17.339 --> 00:20:18.980 the time was actually crazy because everyone's 00:20:18.980 --> 00:20:21.039 just using their phones since he did the job 00:20:21.039 --> 00:20:23.460 it was so much better and you know, but for efficient 00:20:23.460 --> 00:20:26.319 for the agency since They are growing massively 00:20:26.319 --> 00:20:29.150 big and it's something I think more investors 00:20:29.150 --> 00:20:30.650 and more companies should start thinking about 00:20:30.650 --> 00:20:39.230 it. Exactly. I wish I had some clue on that on 00:20:39.230 --> 00:20:43.690 how to get to this, but if you think about numbers, 00:20:44.150 --> 00:20:50.950 one of the small parenthesis, when I got into 00:20:50.950 --> 00:20:53.829 entrepreneurship, I think, man, I love Brazil. 00:20:54.869 --> 00:20:57.309 I went to Brazil three times. traveling solo, 00:20:57.869 --> 00:21:00.869 three, four weeks at a time, know it very well. 00:21:01.390 --> 00:21:03.630 And I said, man, if you, I mean, we're talking 00:21:03.630 --> 00:21:07.210 and thinking about the next great idea, but if 00:21:07.210 --> 00:21:10.829 I could sell an app, one euro per person in Brazil, 00:21:11.029 --> 00:21:13.130 it's like how many people, 190 million, I think, 00:21:13.430 --> 00:21:15.990 it's more than numbers. Just make the numbers. 00:21:16.650 --> 00:21:20.170 Think about Africa, it's a huge continent. And 00:21:20.170 --> 00:21:24.440 exactly, I mean, we... We I mean not not we you 00:21:24.440 --> 00:21:27.759 and I but I mean in Europe many players Still 00:21:27.759 --> 00:21:31.160 look at Africa as the yes Africa the country 00:21:31.160 --> 00:21:34.519 that festival I mean a lot of time you will hear 00:21:34.519 --> 00:21:37.539 Talking about Africa as a country or is this 00:21:37.539 --> 00:21:40.559 a huge continent? We don't remember how many 00:21:40.559 --> 00:21:43.240 countries but a lot with a lot of variety internal 00:21:43.240 --> 00:21:47.839 clashes internal different cultures so Yes, it 00:21:47.839 --> 00:21:50.740 is a very segmented market, but mmm probably 00:21:50.740 --> 00:21:54.680 less segmented than Europe for some extent and 00:21:54.680 --> 00:21:56.740 it's a huge market and they still not look at 00:21:56.740 --> 00:22:00.519 that as a the next big thing. I mean and when 00:22:00.519 --> 00:22:02.500 you mentioned about apps I mean it gives me some 00:22:02.500 --> 00:22:05.900 light because I've been to Kenya 10 times and 00:22:05.900 --> 00:22:11.079 if also I mean just not for holidays a couple 00:22:11.079 --> 00:22:14.119 of times for some I mean it was connecting holidays 00:22:14.119 --> 00:22:18.440 with some business meetings and also I have been 00:22:18.440 --> 00:22:21.450 supporting a a volunteering project down there. 00:22:21.769 --> 00:22:24.609 So I also got to know the tourist side, which 00:22:24.609 --> 00:22:27.529 is absolutely marvelous. Got to know a bit of 00:22:27.529 --> 00:22:31.029 the business side very little, but already a 00:22:31.029 --> 00:22:37.950 bit of how it works. And even the internal areas 00:22:37.950 --> 00:22:40.410 and the land where most tourists would not go, 00:22:40.789 --> 00:22:43.150 the vast majority would not go. And when you 00:22:43.150 --> 00:22:46.910 go to these rural areas where in some cases it 00:22:46.910 --> 00:22:48.970 had not been raining for two years in a row, 00:22:49.640 --> 00:22:52.140 and still find a way to make things happen and 00:22:52.140 --> 00:22:56.380 to make agriculture somehow you will find no 00:22:56.380 --> 00:23:00.720 water no electricity but you will find two things 00:23:00.720 --> 00:23:06.740 coca -cola and i wonder how awful it should taste 00:23:06.740 --> 00:23:10.279 coca -cola with 40 degrees outside and no refrigerator 00:23:10.279 --> 00:23:13.319 but still you can find coca -cola you can find 00:23:13.319 --> 00:23:17.200 coke and that's pretty impressive and the second 00:23:17.200 --> 00:23:20.380 thing you will find are mobile phones Because 00:23:20.380 --> 00:23:26.960 in a very unstructured country, very unstructured 00:23:26.960 --> 00:23:30.740 infrastructure, what really helps is set these 00:23:30.740 --> 00:23:33.599 mobile phones. I mean, talking about back in 00:23:33.599 --> 00:23:36.160 time, talking about early 2000s, so they didn't 00:23:36.160 --> 00:23:43.180 have smartphones. With that, someone with a great 00:23:43.180 --> 00:23:50.000 business mindset created Now we call it a fintech 00:23:50.000 --> 00:23:52.039 system where it's called M -Pesa. Have you ever 00:23:52.039 --> 00:23:55.460 heard about that? Exactly. It was built in Kenya 00:23:55.460 --> 00:24:01.779 and it's... I mean, up to date, still today, 00:24:01.940 --> 00:24:04.740 I can't believe how efficient that is and how 00:24:04.740 --> 00:24:08.319 widespread and fast and common to use. I mean, 00:24:08.319 --> 00:24:12.839 you go to a water kiosk in the middle of... almost 00:24:12.839 --> 00:24:14.619 in the middle of nowhere because they have water 00:24:14.619 --> 00:24:16.460 and bottles almost in the middle of nowhere, 00:24:16.500 --> 00:24:20.950 not literally. And if you have M -Pesa, yes, 00:24:21.009 --> 00:24:23.410 come, pay it. If you have any cash, okay, send 00:24:23.410 --> 00:24:27.210 M -Pesa, I give you cash. I mean, it's... People 00:24:27.210 --> 00:24:28.869 were struggling with the whole concept here. 00:24:29.150 --> 00:24:32.769 Like, why am I replacing my card or my, um, my 00:24:32.769 --> 00:24:35.730 cash with just taking my phone? I mean, only 00:24:35.730 --> 00:24:38.269 after Apple paid for the loan, or people actually 00:24:38.269 --> 00:24:40.549 got the whole concept. Before that, people were 00:24:40.549 --> 00:24:42.470 not getting the concept, like, why should I use 00:24:42.470 --> 00:24:45.049 this? Fuckers, you pay less to the bank, really? 00:24:45.210 --> 00:24:48.250 No, I don't think that. So, yeah. well the whole 00:24:48.250 --> 00:24:50.430 concept on paying less for the bank is pretty 00:24:50.430 --> 00:24:55.269 tricky here in Europe and also about systems 00:24:55.269 --> 00:25:03.369 like M -Pesa or other systems that are much so 00:25:03.369 --> 00:25:07.230 immediate to having a monetary exchange and people 00:25:07.230 --> 00:25:12.309 say like well I think it's fine for me they don't 00:25:12.309 --> 00:25:15.039 understand what what fees are paying in the bank, 00:25:15.319 --> 00:25:17.819 what are the delays in trying money transfer, 00:25:18.380 --> 00:25:20.980 what they're not simply not interested. There's 00:25:20.980 --> 00:25:23.660 more and more awareness. But for example, when 00:25:23.660 --> 00:25:28.700 I moved 2017, June 2017, I moved from London 00:25:28.700 --> 00:25:32.900 to Rotterdam. And I could not believe that the 00:25:32.900 --> 00:25:35.259 Netherlands, a country that has historically 00:25:35.259 --> 00:25:38.680 been so strong in banking, and that make finance 00:25:38.680 --> 00:25:41.500 and banking one of their main activities basically 00:25:41.500 --> 00:25:46.720 as a country, I still had to pay for a bank transfer, 00:25:47.259 --> 00:25:50.480 and it was not immediate. You should go to Portugal. 00:25:50.759 --> 00:25:53.220 It's the same thing. I mean, that's every time 00:25:53.220 --> 00:25:57.059 I go there. Exactly. But I mean, in Italy, they're 00:25:57.059 --> 00:25:59.039 getting better now. They're still not there yet, 00:25:59.119 --> 00:26:02.460 not all banks. But again, as we were mentioning 00:26:02.460 --> 00:26:05.440 before, Italy is not a country where innovation 00:26:05.440 --> 00:26:09.859 and entrepreneurship is so high. They have stronger 00:26:09.859 --> 00:26:14.769 points. like industry, factories, etc. Telecommunications 00:26:14.769 --> 00:26:17.369 is very strong, not talk about tourism and food, 00:26:17.609 --> 00:26:20.630 which even Italians and even some ministers mentioned 00:26:20.630 --> 00:26:23.950 that as, oh, we should rely on this. Yeah, you 00:26:23.950 --> 00:26:26.950 could rely on this as a part of your strategy, 00:26:27.390 --> 00:26:31.630 but you can't solely rely on tourism and food. 00:26:32.390 --> 00:26:35.349 I mean, let's be serious. Let's be absolutely 00:26:35.349 --> 00:26:37.849 serious, especially in a country that wasn't 00:26:37.849 --> 00:26:41.740 the G7. and had an industrial background was 00:26:41.740 --> 00:26:44.720 absolutely strong and now you're trying to destroy 00:26:44.720 --> 00:26:48.380 it just by saying yeah let's we should rely on 00:26:48.380 --> 00:26:51.000 tourism and food now what about infrastructure 00:26:51.000 --> 00:26:53.519 entrepreneurship when i say entrepreneurship 00:26:53.519 --> 00:26:56.819 i mean i mean not not just startups in this case 00:26:56.819 --> 00:27:00.859 but i mean businesses helping big businesses 00:27:00.859 --> 00:27:05.400 big companies medium big companies giving allowing 00:27:05.400 --> 00:27:10.349 them better bureaucracy or or more lean, bureaucracy, 00:27:11.829 --> 00:27:15.309 and all the kind of, I wouldn't say facilitation 00:27:15.309 --> 00:27:18.049 in terms of easing their lives, but there are 00:27:18.049 --> 00:27:21.049 a lot of complications, unnecessary complications 00:27:21.049 --> 00:27:25.589 for a business owner, especially for big businesses 00:27:25.589 --> 00:27:27.609 that shouldn't be there if you want the business 00:27:27.609 --> 00:27:30.150 to flourish. But Intel produces so much stuff. 00:27:30.769 --> 00:27:33.210 I mean, I'm just thinking historically, you have 00:27:33.210 --> 00:27:36.410 the car manufacturers in Italy, huge. You have 00:27:36.410 --> 00:27:40.150 things like the aeronautical industry, also you 00:27:40.150 --> 00:27:43.109 ship production. These are all major major industries 00:27:43.109 --> 00:27:46.769 and it really has been a major European powerhouse 00:27:46.769 --> 00:27:49.430 and global powerhouse for many many many centuries 00:27:49.430 --> 00:27:53.490 actually. If I'm telling I'm just thinking how 00:27:53.490 --> 00:27:55.910 can we get more of this? How can we get more? 00:27:56.470 --> 00:28:00.170 Yes but no because many Italians including again 00:28:00.170 --> 00:28:02.329 politicians and ministries are thinking about 00:28:02.329 --> 00:28:06.829 okay That's something we should maintain, but 00:28:06.829 --> 00:28:09.369 I mean, I have the impression it's not a huge 00:28:09.369 --> 00:28:13.069 focus on this. It is changing lately, but still 00:28:13.069 --> 00:28:15.029 not that much. I mean, if you don't have industries, 00:28:15.210 --> 00:28:16.809 if you don't have the industry, if you don't 00:28:16.809 --> 00:28:20.049 have factories, you don't have those big businesses, 00:28:20.809 --> 00:28:24.170 what's left? Governmental employments, which, 00:28:24.710 --> 00:28:29.190 I mean, let's keep how efficient they are and 00:28:29.190 --> 00:28:33.900 how useful they are. because a huge conversation 00:28:33.900 --> 00:28:36.640 around this is pretty complex. And the second 00:28:36.640 --> 00:28:40.200 one is tourism and food. So what do they do there? 00:28:40.640 --> 00:28:43.180 Functionaries, tourism and food. Country cannot 00:28:43.180 --> 00:28:47.099 sustain itself on this. So there is huge need 00:28:47.099 --> 00:28:51.759 to be competitive again. Just pushing more, helping 00:28:51.759 --> 00:28:55.220 more, trying to have strategies and investments 00:28:55.220 --> 00:28:58.819 and incentives for industries, factories, businesses, 00:28:59.420 --> 00:29:02.670 because they are the ones that hire people. They 00:29:02.670 --> 00:29:05.950 give work to other people They make them the 00:29:05.950 --> 00:29:09.009 economy time if you if you make very difficult 00:29:09.009 --> 00:29:12.549 for business to succeed to sustain itself And 00:29:12.549 --> 00:29:15.789 then I mean the economy does not flow. I mean 00:29:15.789 --> 00:29:20.109 simple as it goes You know, I love talking with 00:29:20.109 --> 00:29:23.190 you but going back to your work with the startups 00:29:23.190 --> 00:29:26.130 can tell me more about it You're getting to the 00:29:26.130 --> 00:29:29.920 company What exactly different different ways 00:29:29.920 --> 00:29:34.380 one thing I think I like to to do As a person 00:29:34.380 --> 00:29:37.200 one thing that makes me makes me happy and makes 00:29:37.200 --> 00:29:41.200 me it feels absolutely natural to me is mentoring 00:29:41.200 --> 00:29:46.279 so That's Mentoring is a bit different from coaching 00:29:46.279 --> 00:29:48.119 also the coaching but mentoring is more like 00:29:48.119 --> 00:29:50.579 okay. I've been there done that I've been done 00:29:50.579 --> 00:29:54.099 something similar and I'll give you my perspective 00:29:54.359 --> 00:29:58.579 which is turning really useful in two cases in 00:29:58.579 --> 00:30:02.140 startups and with middle and high managers in 00:30:02.140 --> 00:30:06.339 companies because what for me is absolutely normal 00:30:06.339 --> 00:30:10.079 and I say with very humbly is I had to get out 00:30:10.079 --> 00:30:13.000 beyond the imposter syndrome to say what's normal 00:30:13.000 --> 00:30:16.180 for me is not so normal for other people is to 00:30:16.180 --> 00:30:19.420 having lived and worked in every in five different 00:30:19.420 --> 00:30:23.319 countries a huge US corporate and small niche 00:30:23.470 --> 00:30:26.930 company, so different levels of company, different 00:30:26.930 --> 00:30:31.329 size of company with clients almost literally 00:30:31.329 --> 00:30:33.769 worldwide. I mean, in all continents for sure. 00:30:34.930 --> 00:30:38.250 And this is something that is pretty valuable 00:30:38.250 --> 00:30:39.970 to some people who look at it and say, okay, 00:30:40.130 --> 00:30:42.329 I know I'm not perfect. I know I don't have all 00:30:42.329 --> 00:30:44.789 the answers. And mentoring is not about having 00:30:44.789 --> 00:30:47.130 all the answers. It's about, I've seen different 00:30:47.130 --> 00:30:49.789 things. Let's exchange ideas, see a different 00:30:49.789 --> 00:30:53.420 perspective. Ask those tricky questions that 00:30:53.420 --> 00:30:56.940 make you think bad about something and maybe 00:30:56.940 --> 00:31:00.960 give you the ha ha moment and So when I started 00:31:00.960 --> 00:31:04.859 getting involved with startups It was a bit like 00:31:04.859 --> 00:31:07.720 this. It was in a I first started with an incubator 00:31:07.720 --> 00:31:12.079 Then got into an axle, you know, especially Spain 00:31:12.079 --> 00:31:15.000 as with mattress goes by referral. Oh, don't 00:31:15.000 --> 00:31:18.099 would you do that great at this? Okay Start getting 00:31:18.099 --> 00:31:21.140 an incubator then an accelerator, then I got 00:31:21.140 --> 00:31:26.579 into the IE Institute of Empresa. It's a MBA, 00:31:26.859 --> 00:31:29.859 it's a business school, so they have a special 00:31:29.859 --> 00:31:33.859 path for entrepreneurial MBA and giving advice 00:31:33.859 --> 00:31:36.519 and mentoring to startups in the business school. 00:31:37.880 --> 00:31:43.279 And that's great because that's a part of, first 00:31:43.279 --> 00:31:46.720 of all, giving back. Then it really makes me, 00:31:47.279 --> 00:31:52.680 I mean, it fascinates me. I got the great opportunity 00:31:52.680 --> 00:31:56.259 of getting to know people that have so many ideas 00:31:56.259 --> 00:32:02.299 that will say, man, that's incredible. How could 00:32:02.299 --> 00:32:07.420 you have that idea? Or they have so much certainty 00:32:07.420 --> 00:32:10.160 and drive to bring their idea forward. They're 00:32:10.160 --> 00:32:16.819 saying, man, I admire your drive. And also to 00:32:16.819 --> 00:32:21.029 listen to new ideas that i would have never thought 00:32:21.029 --> 00:32:25.390 of so that would say mentoring is a two -way 00:32:25.390 --> 00:32:29.650 thing i mean just having this wow moment and 00:32:29.650 --> 00:32:34.450 having this great thing is for me it's absolutely 00:32:34.450 --> 00:32:37.990 enriching and the good thing of course getting 00:32:37.990 --> 00:32:40.549 beyond the impulsive syndrome is that my expertise 00:32:40.549 --> 00:32:43.250 that for me is absolutely normal for other people 00:32:43.250 --> 00:32:45.789 it's like they look at it and say okay and i 00:32:45.789 --> 00:32:48.490 would never thought of that i mean did you how 00:32:48.490 --> 00:32:50.809 did you how you got out of the situation in that 00:32:50.809 --> 00:32:53.450 way or in some cases of course it's also about 00:32:53.450 --> 00:32:56.150 vulnerability so actually guys i did this it 00:32:56.150 --> 00:32:59.630 went bad or really bad don't try this at home 00:32:59.630 --> 00:33:04.069 or i tried this it went bad for this reason so 00:33:04.069 --> 00:33:06.390 maybe use it with caution and integrate this 00:33:06.390 --> 00:33:09.950 with this other technique and it's it's absolutely 00:33:09.950 --> 00:33:12.289 fascinating Talking about the imposter syndrome, 00:33:12.329 --> 00:33:14.309 sometimes it's a bit challenging because I find 00:33:14.309 --> 00:33:18.710 myself there and I look at this... It's not always 00:33:18.710 --> 00:33:21.730 young because there's a myth that startup is 00:33:21.730 --> 00:33:24.869 a world for young people only. And by the way, 00:33:25.289 --> 00:33:29.630 the stats tell us that the best age to succeed 00:33:29.630 --> 00:33:33.970 in a startup is 43 years old. So not 20, and 00:33:33.970 --> 00:33:36.009 you don't need to, you know, be Mark Zuckerberg 00:33:36.009 --> 00:33:38.369 or something like that. Exactly. I mean, it can 00:33:38.369 --> 00:33:42.140 be, but... it doesn't necessarily have to be 00:33:42.140 --> 00:33:44.819 so I'm there and I look at these young people 00:33:44.819 --> 00:33:47.279 super motivated super I'm gonna eat the world 00:33:47.279 --> 00:33:49.759 kind of attitude and like who am I to give advice 00:33:49.759 --> 00:33:54.000 to these guys seriously but then again since 00:33:54.000 --> 00:33:56.619 it's a two -way thing it's always been really 00:33:56.619 --> 00:34:00.039 enriching and I found myself giving advice on 00:34:00.039 --> 00:34:03.200 marketing I mean if you I generally master quite 00:34:03.200 --> 00:34:06.019 well for what I do all the verticals of the company 00:34:06.019 --> 00:34:08.440 because I need to do I'm mostly into operations 00:34:08.440 --> 00:34:10.780 and processes, but this means that I need to 00:34:10.780 --> 00:34:13.159 understand how customer service works, how sales 00:34:13.159 --> 00:34:17.000 works, how finances go, because at the end of 00:34:17.000 --> 00:34:20.599 the day, that's what gives us bread to eat and 00:34:20.599 --> 00:34:23.179 all other areas. But marketing, it's really not 00:34:23.179 --> 00:34:26.260 much my thing. But I found myself giving advice 00:34:26.260 --> 00:34:32.420 on marketing strategies and people were like... 00:34:32.139 --> 00:34:34.860 flabbergasted and say how do you know this how 00:34:34.860 --> 00:34:36.780 do you think about that it's just experience 00:34:36.780 --> 00:34:38.920 with different companies i mean you you're running 00:34:38.920 --> 00:34:41.820 one company that's my one of my former former 00:34:41.820 --> 00:34:45.059 business coaches used to say i mean you you were 00:34:45.059 --> 00:34:48.159 it was very straightforward you run a company 00:34:48.159 --> 00:34:52.440 right yes and how hard it is it's very hard do 00:34:52.440 --> 00:34:55.980 you find yourself struggling to make some decisions 00:34:55.980 --> 00:34:58.699 and understand how to make things yes do you 00:34:58.699 --> 00:35:01.760 have time do you have a lot of spare time no 00:35:02.639 --> 00:35:06.139 So, do you think your experience is great to 00:35:06.139 --> 00:35:07.980 manage your company because all the dedication 00:35:07.980 --> 00:35:09.440 you put and all the experience you're getting 00:35:09.440 --> 00:35:12.619 from this company? Yes. Well, think about me, 00:35:13.719 --> 00:35:18.380 that I manage or co -manage or advise in 15 different 00:35:18.380 --> 00:35:21.239 companies at a time. It's like, boom! I wouldn't 00:35:21.239 --> 00:35:23.659 be so brave, I wouldn't be so direct, I wouldn't 00:35:23.659 --> 00:35:27.059 be so daring, but there's some truth to when 00:35:27.059 --> 00:35:29.119 you've seen different things, different companies 00:35:29.119 --> 00:35:30.920 in different countries, in different stages, 00:35:31.019 --> 00:35:34.199 in different... faces. I don't even, if you ask 00:35:34.199 --> 00:35:36.960 me what did I learn, I don't know. But what I 00:35:36.960 --> 00:35:40.099 know for a fact, what I know for sure is that 00:35:40.099 --> 00:35:42.559 when you present me to a problem, I will see 00:35:42.559 --> 00:35:45.719 it from, my brain will automatically see it from 00:35:45.719 --> 00:35:48.019 different angles and try to find different solutions 00:35:48.019 --> 00:35:51.239 that are not just the standard solution and trying 00:35:51.239 --> 00:35:54.679 to poke a bit in different directions to see 00:35:54.679 --> 00:35:58.460 where it goes. And that's something I absolutely 00:35:58.460 --> 00:36:04.800 love. And back to the Impulso syndrome sometimes 00:36:04.800 --> 00:36:07.460 there are some startups and it's very difficult 00:36:07.460 --> 00:36:10.619 being a mentor or an advisor as a startup because 00:36:10.619 --> 00:36:13.199 some of them since they are so young so motivated 00:36:13.199 --> 00:36:17.699 so yes we're gonna our solution is going to change 00:36:17.699 --> 00:36:20.619 the world and sometimes I'm not very willing 00:36:20.619 --> 00:36:26.980 to listen and that's tricky and sometimes I find 00:36:26.980 --> 00:36:30.219 myself I found myself in a situation... I'm not 00:36:30.219 --> 00:36:32.199 talking about just Madrid ecosystem, so think 00:36:32.199 --> 00:36:35.500 about... I mean, what I'm going to say, and scale 00:36:35.500 --> 00:36:38.780 it at a country level, or a continent level, 00:36:38.780 --> 00:36:40.760 or a world level. We are presenting this solution, 00:36:40.960 --> 00:36:43.800 ABC, that's great, and nobody does this. So, 00:36:43.800 --> 00:36:45.860 well, I've been to another incubator last week, 00:36:45.900 --> 00:36:48.480 someone is doing exactly the same thing, and 00:36:48.480 --> 00:36:51.139 it's basically the same way. Guys, I would strongly 00:36:51.139 --> 00:36:56.280 suggest that the two of you get in touch, because... 00:36:56.349 --> 00:36:59.150 I know you want to have your own idea and how 00:36:59.150 --> 00:37:02.190 strong this desire, your ego, even a bit of ego 00:37:02.190 --> 00:37:04.769 involved, to have your own idea out to the world. 00:37:05.489 --> 00:37:08.690 Here you're just doing two very similar things. 00:37:09.409 --> 00:37:11.989 Even if it's just exchanging ideas, I really 00:37:11.989 --> 00:37:15.489 suggest that you meet up and talk. And the ideal 00:37:15.489 --> 00:37:17.550 outcome would be that you find a way to collaborate 00:37:17.550 --> 00:37:20.909 because you can get something great out. It's 00:37:20.909 --> 00:37:23.989 much easier with... If you have the contours 00:37:23.989 --> 00:37:26.809 of both of you and you have the ideas mixed and 00:37:26.809 --> 00:37:28.690 mingled, then if you go alone and they say no, 00:37:28.809 --> 00:37:30.889 it's not possible, we will do it differently. 00:37:31.489 --> 00:37:33.349 Without even knowing what exactly the other party 00:37:33.349 --> 00:37:36.369 does. It's like, what's it gonna be, Mark Coney 00:37:36.369 --> 00:37:39.389 and Alexander Bell, right? They're going at the 00:37:39.389 --> 00:37:42.269 same thing at the same time. Well, you know, 00:37:42.369 --> 00:37:46.090 back then it was so difficult to, well, on one 00:37:46.090 --> 00:37:48.210 hand it was more difficult for technological 00:37:48.210 --> 00:37:50.309 and distance reasons, on the other hand it was 00:37:50.309 --> 00:37:54.099 more... maybe more popular people say okay so 00:37:54.099 --> 00:37:57.739 we're not so many inventors in the world to someone 00:37:57.739 --> 00:37:59.559 doing something similar in the united states 00:37:59.559 --> 00:38:02.320 better look at what he is doing and the the other 00:38:02.320 --> 00:38:05.599 thing i found about the imposter syndrome and 00:38:05.599 --> 00:38:11.239 getting back to the to the same one is that sometimes 00:38:11.239 --> 00:38:21.440 some some of these super super energized entrepreneurs 00:38:21.440 --> 00:38:24.320 or start -upers as we call them they just say 00:38:24.320 --> 00:38:28.179 I mean sometimes they say very lightly or very 00:38:28.179 --> 00:38:31.579 firmly I would say what one the most firm way 00:38:31.579 --> 00:38:35.360 one told me what the guy once told me it was 00:38:35.360 --> 00:38:38.380 a friend so it was not meaning to be mean but 00:38:38.380 --> 00:38:42.539 it was it was like Giulio if you're so great 00:38:42.539 --> 00:38:45.360 at being an interim manager interim executive 00:38:45.360 --> 00:38:48.949 mentoring executives advising startups Why don't 00:38:48.949 --> 00:38:50.610 you start your own business?" And I was like, 00:38:50.730 --> 00:38:53.550 dude, you're just poking, you're just rubbing 00:38:53.550 --> 00:38:57.570 the finger in, like I'm alleged at what I'm doing. 00:38:58.429 --> 00:39:01.289 And I'm like, I'm a very reflexive guy, so instead 00:39:01.289 --> 00:39:04.489 of jumping at a straw, I'll just reflect and 00:39:04.489 --> 00:39:07.949 say, okay, I understand your question, it makes 00:39:07.949 --> 00:39:13.530 sense. And at the same time, I think I've got 00:39:13.530 --> 00:39:15.389 different skills and different characteristics. 00:39:15.809 --> 00:39:18.510 I mean, what? these guys doing setting up a startup 00:39:18.510 --> 00:39:21.769 and having this great innovative idea, I probably 00:39:21.769 --> 00:39:24.570 would not be that good at that. Whereas, you 00:39:24.570 --> 00:39:27.650 would not be that good at understanding how management 00:39:27.650 --> 00:39:31.150 works, how to organize the work, how to make 00:39:31.150 --> 00:39:34.030 work efficient, how to organize operations, and 00:39:34.030 --> 00:39:37.190 now to have a big picture and get all the cogs, 00:39:37.289 --> 00:39:39.429 put them together and make the work in a smooth 00:39:39.429 --> 00:39:44.190 way. And also, maybe I could do that, but doesn't 00:39:44.190 --> 00:39:47.269 mean that's the best thing I could do. It's like 00:39:47.269 --> 00:39:50.769 if you say, Giulio, you said that one of the 00:39:50.769 --> 00:39:54.090 examples you managed to, with just a couple of 00:39:54.090 --> 00:39:57.809 hours of consulting, you managed to lower the 00:39:57.809 --> 00:40:01.389 cost of a factory in Ecuador by 6%. Real fact. 00:40:02.110 --> 00:40:04.849 I feel so good at that. Why don't you become 00:40:04.849 --> 00:40:09.670 a CFO? I'm not a CFO. I'm not even close to the 00:40:09.670 --> 00:40:14.010 CFO. Yes, I can give advice that helps finance, 00:40:14.030 --> 00:40:19.130 but I'm not a CFO. I'm very different. We just... 00:40:19.130 --> 00:40:22.690 I think there's this... Some founders have this 00:40:22.690 --> 00:40:26.269 fire in them that makes things like, okay, we 00:40:26.269 --> 00:40:28.250 are so much better than the other because we 00:40:28.250 --> 00:40:34.289 are entrepreneurs. On one hand, it's true. On 00:40:34.289 --> 00:40:36.309 the other hand, it doesn't mean you're above 00:40:36.309 --> 00:40:39.789 the other world. It's just entrepreneurship, 00:40:40.190 --> 00:40:44.130 especially today. Today, I mean, it's been a 00:40:44.130 --> 00:40:47.940 few years now. it's a team sport i mean the self 00:40:47.940 --> 00:40:50.719 -made entrepreneur self -made millionaire they 00:40:50.719 --> 00:40:53.159 still happen it's a myth from it's not a myth 00:40:53.159 --> 00:40:56.780 it's a story from the united states of america 00:40:56.780 --> 00:41:03.900 it was and many people got a self -made millionaire 00:41:03.900 --> 00:41:06.460 self -made entrepreneur they got to great great 00:41:06.460 --> 00:41:09.780 results it was a different time the united states 00:41:09.780 --> 00:41:13.000 of america is not europe and now And now even 00:41:13.000 --> 00:41:15.619 in the United States of America is a different 00:41:15.619 --> 00:41:20.219 thing. Things have become so specialized that 00:41:20.219 --> 00:41:23.719 you don't have, apart from rare cases, you don't 00:41:23.719 --> 00:41:27.679 have someone who's great at artificial intelligence 00:41:27.679 --> 00:41:34.119 and marketing and whatever name, whatever vertical. 00:41:34.719 --> 00:41:37.920 Even if you only talk about computer engineering 00:41:37.920 --> 00:41:44.139 and IT. When I got into the was relatively simple 00:41:44.139 --> 00:41:47.480 I Mean not as simple as before but was relatively 00:41:47.480 --> 00:41:49.679 simple already when I got out of university a 00:41:49.679 --> 00:41:53.400 few years later You already had different specializations 00:41:53.400 --> 00:41:56.880 that did not exist before and I don't even mention 00:41:56.880 --> 00:42:00.440 the how Exponentially grew all the time. So if 00:42:00.440 --> 00:42:02.039 you want someone to be very good at something 00:42:02.039 --> 00:42:07.340 cannot be for all areas something talking about 00:42:07.340 --> 00:42:34.969 self -made entrepreneurs and and then And had 00:42:34.969 --> 00:42:36.789 he not had that support, he would never have 00:42:36.789 --> 00:42:39.030 made it. And he recognizes the value that they 00:42:39.030 --> 00:42:41.110 brought to his life. It's the same thing when 00:42:41.110 --> 00:42:43.610 you're launching a business. Everyone I talk 00:42:43.610 --> 00:42:45.710 to, I think the ones who are most successful, 00:42:45.909 --> 00:42:48.409 the ones who are willing to listen, willing to 00:42:48.409 --> 00:42:50.570 ask questions, and willing to take that advice 00:42:50.570 --> 00:42:54.070 on board, you're not going to be able to do the 00:42:54.070 --> 00:42:56.989 same thing. But being able to say, you know what, 00:42:56.989 --> 00:42:58.650 I don't know, let me go and ask them the same 00:42:58.650 --> 00:43:02.349 direction, let me go and ask them how, It's a 00:43:02.349 --> 00:43:03.989 million times better than just knocking your 00:43:03.989 --> 00:43:05.730 head in every single wall you find until you 00:43:05.730 --> 00:43:08.250 manage to get through it. Yeah, it's not gonna 00:43:08.250 --> 00:43:10.510 happen that quickly. I love that you mentioned 00:43:10.510 --> 00:43:14.510 advisory board because there is also a personal 00:43:14.510 --> 00:43:18.949 mission, maybe it's too strong as a word, but 00:43:18.949 --> 00:43:21.309 it's a personal campaign that I'm trying to do 00:43:21.309 --> 00:43:27.090 because in the UK it's pretty normal. I'm in 00:43:27.090 --> 00:43:29.170 a board of directors of a company, I'm in a board 00:43:29.170 --> 00:43:31.500 of advisors of another one. I'm not trying to 00:43:31.500 --> 00:43:35.460 get more roles on the board because it's again 00:43:35.460 --> 00:43:38.440 it's something that I mean when I do that I feel 00:43:38.440 --> 00:43:43.219 like at home and people find a benefit so it's 00:43:43.219 --> 00:43:47.139 you know this kind of icky guy thing so win -win 00:43:47.139 --> 00:43:49.619 it's win for me it's win for society I get paid 00:43:49.619 --> 00:43:52.460 for that they get economical benefits from that 00:43:52.460 --> 00:43:56.679 it's win for everyone but it's pretty tricky 00:43:56.679 --> 00:44:00.449 because In the UK it's pretty normal, so I'm 00:44:00.449 --> 00:44:03.309 in some associations and groups for Board of 00:44:03.309 --> 00:44:06.469 Advisors, Board of Directors, and I see how in 00:44:06.469 --> 00:44:09.769 London, because still look at London as if I 00:44:09.769 --> 00:44:13.969 were living there, but I'm not, so I still got 00:44:13.969 --> 00:44:16.769 attached to London emotionally, and I see how 00:44:16.769 --> 00:44:18.889 many things come out there, Board of Advisors, 00:44:18.989 --> 00:44:23.050 Trustee, Board of Directors, different roles, 00:44:23.210 --> 00:44:25.469 and every week there's something coming out, 00:44:25.769 --> 00:44:29.780 something that I mean a lot. Spain, Italy, silence. 00:44:30.559 --> 00:44:33.639 It's not normal for a company to have a board 00:44:33.639 --> 00:44:36.000 of advisor. They may have a board of director, 00:44:36.320 --> 00:44:41.380 and this happens in two cases. If they are indexed 00:44:41.380 --> 00:44:44.099 in the stock exchange, so if they are good public 00:44:44.099 --> 00:44:48.639 there, they need to have actionaries and shareholders, 00:44:48.900 --> 00:44:50.980 and so they need to have a board of directors. 00:44:51.840 --> 00:44:55.420 Or if it's a family business, which is even worse. 00:44:55.980 --> 00:44:59.780 I made a post to shake a little bit the system 00:44:59.780 --> 00:45:04.699 the other week. Your family is not a board of 00:45:04.699 --> 00:45:08.539 advisor. It's actually worse than having a board 00:45:08.539 --> 00:45:10.840 of advisor. Is it not having that? Because you 00:45:10.840 --> 00:45:14.239 have internal conflicts, internal politics, communication 00:45:14.239 --> 00:45:17.519 issues. You might not want to say this to avoid 00:45:17.519 --> 00:45:22.710 hurting the feelings or... impacting the relationship 00:45:22.710 --> 00:45:24.829 with the other person so it's a board of directors 00:45:24.829 --> 00:45:27.690 because you have you, your sister, your cousin, 00:45:28.269 --> 00:45:32.329 your father on the board but that's a board of 00:45:32.329 --> 00:45:35.190 directors which is not a board of advisors first 00:45:35.190 --> 00:45:37.750 of all and it's not an independent board of directors 00:45:37.750 --> 00:45:39.969 so you don't have independent advice you don't 00:45:39.969 --> 00:45:42.449 have someone looking at knowing how things are 00:45:42.449 --> 00:45:45.570 going in the industry and the world out there 00:45:45.570 --> 00:45:49.349 and giving independent unbiased advice which 00:45:49.349 --> 00:45:52.590 sometimes can backfire and sometimes I found 00:45:52.590 --> 00:45:56.150 myself giving someone sound advice and being 00:45:56.150 --> 00:45:58.650 treated not in a nice way because they didn't 00:45:58.650 --> 00:46:01.309 like what I'm saying but that's my role not getting 00:46:01.309 --> 00:46:05.869 told words but saying something that's maybe 00:46:05.869 --> 00:46:09.449 uncomfortable or unpleasant surfacing something 00:46:09.449 --> 00:46:11.489 bringing out to light something that maybe we 00:46:11.489 --> 00:46:14.750 don't want to discuss now but then eventually 00:46:14.750 --> 00:46:17.210 we need to discuss but that's why you have them 00:46:17.210 --> 00:46:18.969 in the first place isn't it because it's a bit 00:46:18.969 --> 00:46:22.340 like If you think about the classical war games, 00:46:22.400 --> 00:46:24.900 for example, there's a reason why people do war 00:46:24.900 --> 00:46:26.860 games. The reason is you need to have someone 00:46:26.860 --> 00:46:29.000 telling you a comfortable truth and at the same 00:46:29.000 --> 00:46:31.179 time you gotta help them. So again, if you have 00:46:31.179 --> 00:46:33.159 that in a more wise sense, if you say, what about 00:46:33.159 --> 00:46:35.099 this angle, that angle, what about that angle? 00:46:35.639 --> 00:46:37.579 Then you're like, okay, no, yes, no, and then 00:46:37.579 --> 00:46:39.440 you try and navigate that. That actually makes 00:46:39.440 --> 00:46:42.460 you better suited to run the business, that if 00:46:42.460 --> 00:46:44.219 everyone's saying, everything's gonna be wonderful, 00:46:44.820 --> 00:46:46.159 everything's gonna rain, it's gonna be sunshine 00:46:46.159 --> 00:46:47.659 all the time, well actually no, it's gonna rain. 00:46:48.340 --> 00:46:50.900 Bare fruit for that eventuality. You bought yourself 00:46:50.900 --> 00:46:53.159 an umbrella. How does it look like? What if you 00:46:53.159 --> 00:46:55.599 range for the rest of the month? So things like 00:46:55.599 --> 00:46:58.920 that make a huge difference. I mean, now that 00:46:58.920 --> 00:47:01.739 you say that, it comes a metaphor to mind. Just 00:47:01.739 --> 00:47:04.699 made it up. I mean, not having a bolt of advisor 00:47:04.699 --> 00:47:11.159 is like hiding the dust below the carpet. Yeah, 00:47:11.179 --> 00:47:17.130 exactly. I mean, eventually it comes out. I mean, 00:47:17.710 --> 00:47:22.670 I'm trying to connect with more people, more 00:47:22.670 --> 00:47:25.789 advice internationally, not only in Italy and 00:47:25.789 --> 00:47:29.289 Spain, to create more awareness, to stop publishing 00:47:29.289 --> 00:47:31.909 articles, publishing on LinkedIn, making videos, 00:47:32.170 --> 00:47:34.809 not me alone, not just myself, but other people, 00:47:35.289 --> 00:47:42.210 to create awareness, to people get more... kind 00:47:42.210 --> 00:47:44.969 of this... they get more sensitive to this kind 00:47:44.969 --> 00:47:47.190 of topic and they start understanding maybe it's 00:47:47.190 --> 00:47:51.050 a good thing to have because here's another thing 00:47:51.050 --> 00:47:54.269 and and when they have it in most cases I was 00:47:54.269 --> 00:47:57.469 in a meeting just three weeks ago here in Madrid 00:47:57.469 --> 00:48:01.130 and I was saying yes most I mean someone who 00:48:01.130 --> 00:48:02.869 made a book about board of directors and board 00:48:02.869 --> 00:48:05.489 of advisors spanish knows the spanish ecosystem 00:48:05.489 --> 00:48:08.610 very well he sits on different boards said man 00:48:08.610 --> 00:48:11.820 most of the boards People are, as they're called 00:48:11.820 --> 00:48:14.880 in Spain, palmeros, which means people who clap 00:48:14.880 --> 00:48:18.239 their hands. They just clap, they're just there 00:48:18.239 --> 00:48:20.480 and say, oh yeah, yeah, very brilliant decision. 00:48:20.699 --> 00:48:23.320 Did you, I mean, maybe they put this mini challenge 00:48:23.320 --> 00:48:25.639 like, oh, did you think about this in a slight 00:48:25.639 --> 00:48:30.440 different nuance of thing? Yeah, but that's not 00:48:30.440 --> 00:48:33.219 a board of advice. That's someone who, that's 00:48:33.219 --> 00:48:35.280 our supporters. You're creating a lobby, you're 00:48:35.280 --> 00:48:40.559 creating a clique at a direction level to to 00:48:40.559 --> 00:48:43.659 support what you're doing. Which can make sense, 00:48:44.360 --> 00:49:03.599 but... Nice to know. And the iceberg is this. 00:49:03.880 --> 00:49:06.139 It's gigantic on the bottom, and you only see 00:49:06.139 --> 00:49:07.980 the tip of the iceberg. And the tip of the iceberg 00:49:07.980 --> 00:49:09.780 is actually what's going to cause the accident 00:49:09.780 --> 00:49:12.280 or the disaster, whatever it might be. But there's 00:49:12.280 --> 00:49:14.219 so much underneath the water that you cannot 00:49:14.219 --> 00:49:18.219 see. So the whole culture in the Saralan is built 00:49:18.219 --> 00:49:20.980 around, let's identify the bottom of the iceberg 00:49:20.980 --> 00:49:24.340 before it becomes a problem. So you have so many 00:49:24.340 --> 00:49:26.860 mechanisms built in that actually enable you 00:49:26.860 --> 00:49:40.789 to say, look, this is all working here. Yeah, 00:49:52.250 --> 00:49:56.449 that's a great example and I was thinking along 00:49:56.449 --> 00:50:00.400 and In actual fact, I can also see many companies, 00:50:00.400 --> 00:50:06.500 to be honest, struggling a bit. So, in the day 00:50:06.500 --> 00:50:08.599 -to -day activities, the daily activities and 00:50:08.599 --> 00:50:11.719 so they say... I mean, I've seen there's an aspect 00:50:11.719 --> 00:50:15.239 there. I don't have... Yes, I've seen there's 00:50:15.239 --> 00:50:17.719 an aspect there. The other one you mentioned, 00:50:17.739 --> 00:50:20.900 I don't see that. It's too far away. I'm just 00:50:20.900 --> 00:50:23.059 thinking about surviving the next two months. 00:50:23.659 --> 00:50:26.099 And you're thinking about the next two years. 00:50:26.360 --> 00:50:30.860 so i don't see that far and i'm just seeing those 00:50:30.860 --> 00:50:33.099 icebergs that you mentioned i know about them 00:50:33.099 --> 00:50:36.219 but they as first as you say they don't realize 00:50:36.219 --> 00:50:39.500 that if they see the iceberg that much then there's 00:50:39.500 --> 00:50:43.579 much more that do not see that should be brought 00:50:43.579 --> 00:50:46.760 up to light and the second thing is i say since 00:50:46.760 --> 00:50:49.980 they are striking they just don't can't take 00:50:49.980 --> 00:50:54.900 their head up and have the time and effort to 00:50:55.099 --> 00:50:58.920 do something about it. It's just, they're so 00:50:58.920 --> 00:51:03.340 stressed with the duties and the payments and 00:51:03.340 --> 00:51:05.619 the invoices and providing services to customer 00:51:05.619 --> 00:51:08.559 and arranging their own internal things that 00:51:08.559 --> 00:51:11.980 they feel they can't. That's a paradox because 00:51:11.980 --> 00:51:15.340 if you had different strategic guidance, you'd 00:51:15.340 --> 00:51:17.679 probably solve some of these problems and you 00:51:17.679 --> 00:51:21.960 could drive in a smoother way or you could navigate 00:51:21.960 --> 00:51:25.219 smoothly. But since you didn't take the time, 00:51:25.340 --> 00:51:27.880 you don't take the time, you keep on being in 00:51:27.880 --> 00:51:31.340 the same washing machine again and again. Julio, 00:51:31.340 --> 00:51:34.460 as we're reaching the end of the podcast, if 00:51:34.460 --> 00:51:36.039 people want to reach out to you and find more 00:51:36.039 --> 00:51:39.039 about everything you do, how can you do so? What's 00:51:39.039 --> 00:51:42.780 best for you? Well, I would say first of all 00:51:42.780 --> 00:51:47.900 on LinkedIn, Julio Zirca, I try to post somewhat 00:51:47.900 --> 00:51:50.940 regularly about entrepreneurship, management, 00:51:51.199 --> 00:51:54.679 good practices, operations. and even some of 00:51:54.679 --> 00:51:57.840 the more... I mean, we discussed today topics 00:51:57.840 --> 00:52:02.380 that touch upon these points but a bit more elaborated 00:52:02.380 --> 00:52:05.539 or they get to a bigger extent and a bigger reach 00:52:05.539 --> 00:52:11.539 than just that. For example, talking about social 00:52:11.539 --> 00:52:13.900 economic impact of business and what the governments 00:52:13.900 --> 00:52:16.480 could do about this. Not talking about politics 00:52:16.480 --> 00:52:18.800 at all, but there are some measures that doesn't 00:52:18.800 --> 00:52:24.599 matter what government that could support. entrepreneurship 00:52:24.599 --> 00:52:29.199 and good businesses and good companies. So LinkedIn 00:52:29.199 --> 00:52:33.780 for sure. I think that's the first approach. 00:52:34.320 --> 00:52:37.199 And then with platform like yours, I really loved 00:52:37.199 --> 00:52:40.860 being on your podcast. So thanks very much. Hope 00:52:40.860 --> 00:52:44.440 you had a great conversation. What do you think 00:52:44.440 --> 00:52:46.539 about? My last question to you if I have two 00:52:46.539 --> 00:52:49.519 minutes, what do you think about? Since it's 00:52:49.519 --> 00:52:52.019 part of my mission, as I said, how do you think 00:52:52.019 --> 00:52:55.820 that we could make this concept of both of advisors 00:52:55.820 --> 00:53:00.079 more widespread in Europe or in Southern Europe? 00:53:01.840 --> 00:53:04.019 Having a Portuguese background does help, obviously. 00:53:05.059 --> 00:53:07.280 I think it comes out to one thing is we need 00:53:07.280 --> 00:53:10.199 to understand that failure is part of life and 00:53:10.199 --> 00:53:12.880 that being wrong is something that happens a 00:53:12.880 --> 00:53:15.719 lot of times. And going back to the aviation 00:53:15.719 --> 00:53:18.199 analysis, the plane is actually not pointing 00:53:18.199 --> 00:53:21.099 the right direction 99 % of the time it's not 00:53:21.099 --> 00:53:23.800 pointing let's say you want to go from London 00:53:23.800 --> 00:53:26.239 to Madrid it's not a straight line in fact it 00:53:26.239 --> 00:53:30.320 goes there's a couple of variants in the angle 00:53:30.320 --> 00:53:32.840 of time it's the same thing in life and business 00:53:32.840 --> 00:53:35.119 so being aware of that and being aware actually 00:53:35.119 --> 00:53:37.500 I need some advisors to make sure that I'm on 00:53:37.500 --> 00:53:40.840 the right path and they can guide me on my journey 00:53:40.840 --> 00:53:44.159 or best way to achieve my destination that's 00:53:44.159 --> 00:53:46.900 me so I would just you know And you force that 00:53:46.900 --> 00:53:48.659 message over and over again with people saying 00:53:48.659 --> 00:53:50.840 you're gonna make mistakes. But as long as people 00:53:50.840 --> 00:53:52.599 aren't asking questions, as long as you realize 00:53:52.599 --> 00:53:54.480 you are gonna make mistakes, you're not gonna 00:53:54.480 --> 00:53:56.619 be 100 % sure all the time, that's completely 00:53:56.619 --> 00:53:58.320 fine. You can still continue growing your business. 00:53:58.739 --> 00:54:00.960 Because when it comes down to it, it's your determination, 00:54:01.440 --> 00:54:03.739 it's your grit, it's your passion. That's the 00:54:03.739 --> 00:54:06.159 things you need to be strong at. Not knowing 00:54:06.159 --> 00:54:08.079 the answer, that's completely fine. Because you're 00:54:08.079 --> 00:54:10.179 never gonna know the answer fully. It might be 00:54:10.179 --> 00:54:11.639 the right answer right now, but it's not gonna 00:54:11.639 --> 00:54:14.260 be the right answer forever. So, just a second. 00:54:14.380 --> 00:54:16.829 Let's step down and move on. I absolutely love 00:54:16.829 --> 00:54:18.690 that you mentioned, not that I'm the right answer, 00:54:19.130 --> 00:54:24.769 and it's something I mention in most of my mentorship 00:54:24.769 --> 00:54:28.670 sessions. It's like, I mean, people don't like 00:54:28.670 --> 00:54:31.349 when I say this, to be honest, but if you think 00:54:31.349 --> 00:54:33.489 about that, there's no other way. As society 00:54:33.489 --> 00:54:37.010 is now, good or bad, right or wrong, it's not 00:54:37.010 --> 00:54:39.469 society, I mean, sorry, in companies. So how 00:54:39.469 --> 00:54:43.389 the structure works, it's a pyramid. I mean you 00:54:43.389 --> 00:54:45.429 have that many people entry level and you only 00:54:45.429 --> 00:54:48.570 have one CEO and the pyramid goes narrowing up 00:54:48.570 --> 00:54:51.869 until you get to the CEO level People don't like 00:54:51.869 --> 00:54:53.829 when I say this. I'm not saying it's good. I'm 00:54:53.829 --> 00:54:56.230 not saying I like it I'm just step beyond this 00:54:56.230 --> 00:54:59.150 conversation is but this is how it is So when 00:54:59.150 --> 00:55:02.210 you get to the entry level you got a lot of peers 00:55:02.210 --> 00:55:05.369 you can talk to and have exchange ideas plus 00:55:05.369 --> 00:55:08.550 you have different layers or tiers above you 00:55:08.550 --> 00:55:10.530 because I don't like this above and below but 00:55:10.639 --> 00:55:13.340 If you look at the hierarchy as it is now considered 00:55:13.340 --> 00:55:16.500 as a point of view, you have N plus 1, 2, 3, 00:55:16.800 --> 00:55:20.260 4 levels where you can get inspiration, you can 00:55:20.260 --> 00:55:24.219 get guidance, you can get better and higher level 00:55:24.219 --> 00:55:27.559 ideas. As the more you grow, the less you have 00:55:27.559 --> 00:55:30.119 peers, I mean worldwide, not just in the company. 00:55:31.059 --> 00:55:32.760 And when you get to the top of the pyramid, you're 00:55:32.760 --> 00:55:35.239 just alone at the top of the company and you 00:55:35.239 --> 00:55:38.820 can't ask for guidance to the guys that are your 00:55:38.820 --> 00:55:42.820 direct reports. Can you? Like you go to the project 00:55:42.820 --> 00:55:45.420 manager and say, what do you think about this 00:55:45.420 --> 00:55:48.059 strategy decision for the company? Should we 00:55:48.059 --> 00:55:51.820 accept this investor or not? So this is an interesting 00:55:51.820 --> 00:55:53.480 thing because I've actually changed the perspective 00:55:53.480 --> 00:55:57.159 on this one for myself, which is the CEO is not 00:55:57.159 --> 00:56:00.079 a know -it -all. CEO is a manager of resources 00:56:00.079 --> 00:56:03.039 in my perspective. And that means getting the 00:56:03.039 --> 00:56:05.099 best possible solution. The best possible solution 00:56:05.099 --> 00:56:07.000 might not come from your own personal opinion. 00:56:07.179 --> 00:56:09.280 But then might actually be coming from the project 00:56:09.280 --> 00:56:11.800 manager. Might be coming in from the form manager 00:56:11.800 --> 00:56:13.960 if you're running a gigantic factory. Exactly. 00:56:15.039 --> 00:56:17.239 That's for the level of decisions that need to 00:56:17.239 --> 00:56:21.659 come upstream. And absolutely back 100%, 200 00:56:21.659 --> 00:56:23.519 % of what you're saying, having been a project 00:56:23.519 --> 00:56:26.719 manager and program manager for a few years. 00:56:27.300 --> 00:56:29.579 Absolutely back up what you're saying. But the 00:56:29.579 --> 00:56:32.400 point is there are some decisions that only this 00:56:32.400 --> 00:56:35.349 level can make. And so when you're there, and 00:56:35.349 --> 00:56:39.070 you're the person on top of the pyramid, there's 00:56:39.070 --> 00:56:43.489 John Maxwell, huge leadership trainer, guru, 00:56:43.849 --> 00:56:47.150 expert, call it whatever you want, says if you're 00:56:47.150 --> 00:56:48.909 alone at the top, you're doing something wrong. 00:56:49.829 --> 00:56:51.489 That's the thing, when you're CEO and you need 00:56:51.489 --> 00:56:54.250 to take CEO level decisions with the ones who 00:56:54.250 --> 00:56:56.449 do not come upstream, and it's only up to you, 00:56:56.449 --> 00:57:00.250 your responsibility, it's of course you listen 00:57:00.250 --> 00:57:03.360 to your reports, But then it's your decision, 00:57:03.480 --> 00:57:06.719 you need to know. And if you're alone, the world 00:57:06.719 --> 00:57:10.139 shouldn't be alone. It's like the more you grow, 00:57:10.219 --> 00:57:12.760 the more you need to find a system that supports 00:57:12.760 --> 00:57:15.699 you of peers, there are associations, there are 00:57:15.699 --> 00:57:18.340 clubs, there are organizations, and there are 00:57:18.340 --> 00:57:22.460 board advisors. So I will close the podcast with 00:57:22.460 --> 00:57:25.969 an invitation. If you're looking for Because 00:57:25.969 --> 00:57:28.030 you said how can people reach me out if you're 00:57:28.030 --> 00:57:31.070 looking for mentorship or even to know about 00:57:31.070 --> 00:57:35.750 mentorship business coaching management consulting 00:57:35.750 --> 00:57:39.849 startup investment but especially if you if you're 00:57:39.849 --> 00:57:41.690 thinking about if you're curious about the concept 00:57:41.690 --> 00:57:44.610 of both advisors to reach out to Ricardo or to 00:57:44.610 --> 00:57:48.489 me and will be very happy to Guide you to this 00:57:48.489 --> 00:57:50.670 experience doesn't mean that Ricardo or I will 00:57:50.670 --> 00:57:53.869 be on your boat, but just the concept alone of 00:57:54.940 --> 00:57:57.800 explaining what the advantages are and how to 00:57:57.800 --> 00:57:59.920 set it up and how to support during this journey. 00:58:00.280 --> 00:58:03.699 It's absolutely great. And to talk about the 00:58:03.699 --> 00:58:07.679 benefits very, very quickly. We know that there 00:58:07.679 --> 00:58:10.420 are some really pragmatic benefits like increasing 00:58:10.420 --> 00:58:14.400 productivity about 20%. There's an increase in 00:58:14.400 --> 00:58:17.840 income about 18%. There is increase in sales. 00:58:18.119 --> 00:58:22.730 So these are all studied. measured this measurable 00:58:22.730 --> 00:58:25.590 impact in all indifference from companies who 00:58:25.590 --> 00:58:28.590 do not have both both advisors and the ones who 00:58:28.590 --> 00:58:33.610 do so that's that's facts that's out there We 00:58:33.610 --> 00:58:36.010 I think I can speak for you as well. We invite 00:58:36.010 --> 00:58:39.949 you to really consider this Thing especially 00:58:39.949 --> 00:58:42.789 if you're a young startup, but in general whatever 00:58:42.789 --> 00:58:46.010 stage of enter entrepreneurship You are that's 00:58:46.010 --> 00:58:48.150 something that's going to really support your 00:58:48.150 --> 00:58:51.239 mission. Thank you so much for that Thanks a 00:58:51.239 --> 00:59:22.989 lot! ODEV Tech is your premier software development 00:59:22.989 --> 00:59:26.409 partner. Make sure you check them out at odev 00:59:26.409 --> 00:59:27.150 .tech.