WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.859 Welcome to the Innovation Conversation, a podcast 00:00:02.859 --> 00:00:05.419 about innovators, both in business and real life. 00:00:05.879 --> 00:00:08.380 Hosted by myself, Ricardo Rescual and Harry McCona. 00:00:08.480 --> 00:00:11.699 This podcast is also sponsored by ODEV Tech. 00:00:12.439 --> 00:00:14.640 ODEV Tech is your premier software development 00:00:14.640 --> 00:00:18.019 partner. Make sure you check them out at odev 00:00:18.019 --> 00:00:22.399 .tech. The podcast is also sponsored by Notion 00:00:22.399 --> 00:00:25.359 .so. Notion is offering six months for free for 00:00:25.359 --> 00:00:27.839 new users. Make sure you check out our website, 00:00:28.019 --> 00:00:30.600 thestoreofevents .co .uk to read in the software. 00:00:31.800 --> 00:00:34.359 Hi, and welcome to another episode of the Innovation 00:00:34.359 --> 00:00:36.840 Conversation. Today we are joined by Uche Eniche. 00:00:37.219 --> 00:00:40.159 Uche, welcome to the podcast. Thank you so much, 00:00:40.299 --> 00:00:42.619 Ricardo. It's a pleasure to be here. It's a pleasure 00:00:42.619 --> 00:00:44.600 having you here. Uche, would you like to introduce 00:00:44.600 --> 00:00:46.740 yourself to the audience, please? Yeah, so Ricardo, 00:00:47.259 --> 00:00:52.679 I said to people that I wear so many hats, but 00:00:52.679 --> 00:00:57.320 the core of me is... a startup ecosystem development 00:00:57.320 --> 00:01:01.719 person, professional if you would. I am the convener 00:01:01.719 --> 00:01:06.060 of Startup South, which is a startup ecosystem 00:01:06.060 --> 00:01:08.959 advocacy organization, development and advocacy 00:01:08.959 --> 00:01:12.920 organization focused, well initially focusing 00:01:12.920 --> 00:01:15.640 on the South -South and the South -East of Nigeria, 00:01:15.879 --> 00:01:20.120 but I'm also the general partner at Rebel State 00:01:20.120 --> 00:01:24.890 Capital, which is a venture capital firm. focusing 00:01:24.890 --> 00:01:29.269 on Africa's emerging or what we call secondary 00:01:29.269 --> 00:01:35.489 cities, right? And then I also founded the South 00:01:35.489 --> 00:01:38.590 -South Eastern Jail Network, a group of professionals 00:01:38.590 --> 00:01:41.010 investing in founders in the South -South and 00:01:41.010 --> 00:01:43.430 South -East of Nigeria. It's quite a lot to unravel 00:01:43.430 --> 00:01:45.810 there. How did you get started in all this startup 00:01:45.810 --> 00:01:50.510 journey and also investing? So first off, I started 00:01:50.510 --> 00:01:54.370 as an entrepreneur. I started as a tech entrepreneur, 00:01:54.890 --> 00:02:00.569 my tech enthusiast. Professionally, I have communication 00:02:00.569 --> 00:02:03.769 background from graphics to corporate communications 00:02:03.769 --> 00:02:08.810 to marketing communications, audio, visual, multimedia. 00:02:09.490 --> 00:02:12.889 I got into all of that, tried to build a business 00:02:12.889 --> 00:02:16.889 around that, and then ultimately saw a need to 00:02:16.889 --> 00:02:21.159 build to champion the emergence of a startup 00:02:21.159 --> 00:02:26.139 ecosystem within my region of Nigeria. And then 00:02:26.139 --> 00:02:30.319 I got into that through Startup South. And that 00:02:30.319 --> 00:02:34.580 was 2015. And since then, till now, we've had 00:02:34.580 --> 00:02:38.819 to find, we've been on that. And along that journey, 00:02:39.520 --> 00:02:43.520 we are discovering other opportunities to create 00:02:43.520 --> 00:02:46.639 value, right? And that's how the South -South 00:02:46.639 --> 00:02:49.219 Eastern Geo Network was born. And that's also 00:02:49.219 --> 00:02:53.120 how the rebel seed capital was also born, right? 00:02:53.259 --> 00:02:58.879 But that doesn't stop me from continuing in supporting 00:02:58.879 --> 00:03:02.780 founders and helping them refine their ideas 00:03:02.780 --> 00:03:07.219 and taking them, helping them scale, basically. 00:03:07.400 --> 00:03:10.719 So that's basically what I tried to do at the 00:03:10.719 --> 00:03:13.740 core. How well developed was Nigeria's ecosystem 00:03:13.740 --> 00:03:16.360 in terms of startups? Was it something that people 00:03:16.360 --> 00:03:19.669 were aware how how everything worked, or was 00:03:19.669 --> 00:03:22.569 this just starting out when you started on 2015? 00:03:24.389 --> 00:03:27.770 So up until, how well developed is Nigeria's 00:03:27.770 --> 00:03:29.650 startup ecosystem? That's the question obviously, 00:03:30.129 --> 00:03:34.770 right? So up until two years ago, Nigeria received 00:03:34.770 --> 00:03:40.689 almost 50 to 60%, if not more, of the funding 00:03:40.689 --> 00:03:43.849 that comes into the startup ecosystem in Africa. 00:03:44.120 --> 00:03:46.400 So that tells you something about the country. 00:03:46.900 --> 00:03:51.860 Only about two years ago, 2023 and up to 2024, 00:03:53.000 --> 00:03:55.539 that Nigeria has fallen behind countries like 00:03:55.539 --> 00:03:59.039 Egypt and Kenya in terms of the amount of funding 00:03:59.039 --> 00:04:02.979 that comes into Nigeria or startups right now. 00:04:03.960 --> 00:04:08.780 That gives you an idea. But the truth is, just 00:04:08.780 --> 00:04:11.409 to blow your mind, the truth is that whatever 00:04:11.409 --> 00:04:15.590 it is that you have going on in Nigeria is only 00:04:15.590 --> 00:04:18.870 what is reported because there's a lot more going 00:04:18.870 --> 00:04:20.949 on that is not reported in terms of the startup 00:04:20.949 --> 00:04:24.350 ecosystem because a lot of what you hear a lot 00:04:24.350 --> 00:04:29.269 of what is done is mostly in the Lagos area right 00:04:29.269 --> 00:04:35.269 but Nigeria has several advanced cities if you 00:04:35.269 --> 00:04:38.050 would because it's a country of over 200 million 00:04:38.050 --> 00:04:43.040 people and we operate, you know, regions, right? 00:04:43.579 --> 00:04:46.459 We have six regions and we have states, about 00:04:46.459 --> 00:04:52.519 50, 36 states plus the capital, right? So in 00:04:52.519 --> 00:04:54.740 each of this region, like the South -South has 00:04:54.740 --> 00:04:58.720 six states, South East has six states. Combined, 00:04:58.839 --> 00:05:02.160 those two regions are 60 million people, right? 00:05:02.519 --> 00:05:05.839 60 million people. If they were to be a country, 00:05:06.259 --> 00:05:08.720 they would be... they I think there would be 00:05:08.720 --> 00:05:11.980 the fourth or the fifth largest country in Africa 00:05:11.980 --> 00:05:17.680 only um I think after Ethiopia or so right that's 00:05:17.680 --> 00:05:20.759 how big and I'm talking about just two regions 00:05:20.759 --> 00:05:24.779 out of in Nigeria so not to talk about the entire 00:05:24.779 --> 00:05:28.899 entire country right Lagos alone has 20 Lagos 00:05:28.899 --> 00:05:32.019 is a state Lagos alone has 20 million people 00:05:32.019 --> 00:05:35.750 I'm sure that could begin to give you an idea. 00:05:35.930 --> 00:05:39.569 You're based in Europe, right? I'm sure you know 00:05:39.569 --> 00:05:42.990 a lot of countries that this region alone is 00:05:42.990 --> 00:05:48.370 way bigger than, okay? So that's an idea of what's 00:05:48.370 --> 00:05:50.569 going on and that's an idea of the opportunity 00:05:50.569 --> 00:05:52.910 that exists in Nigeria as a country. Is there, 00:05:53.069 --> 00:05:55.870 in terms of the legal system, is there any government 00:05:55.870 --> 00:05:59.310 support for investors to actually invest in startups? 00:05:59.689 --> 00:06:02.930 Or how is it done? For example, in the UK, there's 00:06:02.930 --> 00:06:06.149 things like the SCIS scheme that actually helps 00:06:06.149 --> 00:06:08.610 quite a lot of startups get funding and reduces 00:06:08.610 --> 00:06:11.910 the exposure of investors to risk. Does the same 00:06:11.910 --> 00:06:15.670 apply in Nigeria or not really? Yeah. So yes, 00:06:16.410 --> 00:06:20.250 it's still in its infancy, but yet the support 00:06:20.250 --> 00:06:23.550 is coming on. The Nigerian Startup Act was passed 00:06:23.550 --> 00:06:28.939 two years ago. Yeah, over two years ago. And 00:06:28.939 --> 00:06:34.779 in that act has some support and some incentive 00:06:34.779 --> 00:06:39.000 for investors to invest in Startups within Nigeria, 00:06:39.220 --> 00:06:43.860 right? So that act is currently, that's a law, 00:06:44.160 --> 00:06:47.699 right? It's currently undergoing the implementation 00:06:47.699 --> 00:06:52.860 processes. So obviously, it didn't used to be 00:06:52.860 --> 00:06:57.040 there, but now it is, we're beginning to have 00:06:57.040 --> 00:06:59.889 that. And so I'm sure by the time the law takes 00:06:59.889 --> 00:07:02.709 effect, there will be a lot of support. But that 00:07:02.709 --> 00:07:05.149 nowithstanding, the different state governments 00:07:05.149 --> 00:07:10.089 are doing a lot, including the federal government, 00:07:10.290 --> 00:07:13.750 right? They are doing so much to actually support 00:07:13.750 --> 00:07:19.149 and encourage. They are doing so much to encourage, 00:07:19.149 --> 00:07:23.189 you know, the, what's it called? To encourage. 00:07:24.930 --> 00:07:27.730 investment into the startup space and into the 00:07:27.730 --> 00:07:29.629 technology space. So what do you think are the 00:07:29.629 --> 00:07:31.889 biggest challenges for, you know, for a startup 00:07:31.889 --> 00:07:35.029 in Nigeria? So when it comes to biggest challenges, 00:07:35.209 --> 00:07:37.029 obviously, I don't like to talk about challenges 00:07:37.029 --> 00:07:41.310 in themselves, right? Because as you know, challenges 00:07:41.310 --> 00:07:43.970 are opportunities, right? And depending on how 00:07:43.970 --> 00:07:47.449 you look at it, right? So however, when it comes 00:07:47.449 --> 00:07:51.629 to challenges, you know, mostly what people will 00:07:51.629 --> 00:07:55.800 tell you would be Number one is there is too 00:07:55.800 --> 00:08:01.199 much fragmentation in terms of jurisdiction. 00:08:02.000 --> 00:08:05.800 Yes, we operate a federal system and then the 00:08:05.800 --> 00:08:09.800 sub -regional or the sub -national government, 00:08:09.980 --> 00:08:13.480 there will always be that tension between what 00:08:13.480 --> 00:08:15.639 the federal government is doing and what the 00:08:15.639 --> 00:08:17.860 sub -national is doing. Of course, there's also 00:08:17.860 --> 00:08:21.310 this inconsistency in policies. Those are some 00:08:21.310 --> 00:08:23.889 of the challenges. But I don't think those challenges 00:08:23.889 --> 00:08:28.610 are peculiar to Nigeria. I'm sure they also exist 00:08:28.610 --> 00:08:34.529 in different other places. But I think what is 00:08:34.529 --> 00:08:37.850 important is that a lot is already being done 00:08:37.850 --> 00:08:43.149 to streamline some of those issues and make it 00:08:43.149 --> 00:08:46.769 easier for people to get involved in the ecosystem. 00:08:47.269 --> 00:08:51.120 But of course, if you ask founders, right, funders 00:08:51.120 --> 00:08:52.840 will tell you that their biggest challenge is 00:08:52.840 --> 00:08:56.019 funding and that you know that's to be expected 00:08:56.019 --> 00:09:00.759 that's to be expected so yeah so like almost 00:09:00.759 --> 00:09:03.139 everywhere else funding is still a challenge 00:09:03.139 --> 00:09:08.120 maybe is even a bit more challenge in in nigeria 00:09:08.120 --> 00:09:11.399 and by extension africa compared to europe and 00:09:11.399 --> 00:09:14.980 and and the rest of the west but yes those are 00:09:14.980 --> 00:09:20.120 still issues So where do the main investors that 00:09:20.120 --> 00:09:22.740 invest in Nigerian startups come from? Are they 00:09:22.740 --> 00:09:24.639 all local just from Nigeria or you actually have 00:09:24.639 --> 00:09:26.580 people coming in from other countries in Africa 00:09:26.580 --> 00:09:30.320 or outside of Africa as well? So repeat that 00:09:30.320 --> 00:09:33.100 question again. What I'm curious about is just 00:09:33.100 --> 00:09:35.279 understanding how international the ecosystem 00:09:35.279 --> 00:09:38.629 is. In Europe it's very common for startups to 00:09:38.629 --> 00:09:40.309 get investment from other countries in Europe, 00:09:41.389 --> 00:09:43.649 or for investors to be based in other countries 00:09:43.649 --> 00:09:45.669 in Europe and then to invest locally. And I'm 00:09:45.669 --> 00:09:47.610 wondering if it's the same case in Nigeria. Do 00:09:47.610 --> 00:09:49.250 you also have investors coming in, I don't know, 00:09:49.830 --> 00:09:52.570 from South Africa or Egypt, for example, or is 00:09:52.570 --> 00:09:55.809 this very much an enclosed ecosystem? Okay, so 00:09:55.809 --> 00:09:57.889 I think that's an interesting question, right? 00:09:58.070 --> 00:10:02.009 Yeah, at the moment, at the moment, much more 00:10:02.009 --> 00:10:05.669 of the investors still come from Silicon Valley, 00:10:05.929 --> 00:10:10.480 right? Outside of Africa. However, Nigeria is 00:10:10.480 --> 00:10:13.980 one of those countries in Africa where you have 00:10:13.980 --> 00:10:18.500 a large and growing pool of local investors getting 00:10:18.500 --> 00:10:20.940 involved in the startup ecosystem. So I think 00:10:20.940 --> 00:10:24.580 that our investment space is becoming very busy 00:10:24.580 --> 00:10:27.779 and active, right? It's one of those the most, 00:10:27.899 --> 00:10:30.779 well, maybe outside of South Africa, it's one 00:10:30.779 --> 00:10:33.740 of the most active. But it's still not where 00:10:33.740 --> 00:10:38.190 we want it to be. We basically want We want to 00:10:38.190 --> 00:10:42.129 see a lot more local presence in the investment, 00:10:42.590 --> 00:10:45.850 on the investment side, right? And because I 00:10:45.850 --> 00:10:51.049 believe that the local fund would do more to 00:10:51.049 --> 00:10:53.690 attract the better foreign funds, in my opinion. 00:10:54.090 --> 00:10:57.350 So that's why we want to see more local investors, 00:10:57.350 --> 00:11:02.070 you know, show up and get involved. So what would 00:11:02.070 --> 00:11:04.929 you change when it comes to investment? just 00:11:04.929 --> 00:11:08.250 trying to get more foreigners to invest? What 00:11:08.250 --> 00:11:12.769 would I change? No, no, no, no. I would want 00:11:12.769 --> 00:11:16.769 to see a stronger mix, right? There will always 00:11:16.769 --> 00:11:21.230 be that important for the foreign investors to 00:11:21.230 --> 00:11:27.549 come because of the global exposure and the additional 00:11:27.549 --> 00:11:32.649 impact on exit potential, right? So, I mean, 00:11:32.690 --> 00:11:36.070 I know that a number of people would argue that 00:11:36.070 --> 00:11:39.409 your economy should actually develop to the point 00:11:39.409 --> 00:11:42.370 where exit should happen naturally within the 00:11:42.370 --> 00:11:45.470 economy right but and i agree with them but you 00:11:45.470 --> 00:11:49.269 should also realize that we have been preached 00:11:49.269 --> 00:11:54.149 or we have been sold globalization if if it makes 00:11:54.149 --> 00:11:57.730 a lot of sense to get more money by selling globally 00:11:57.730 --> 00:12:01.289 why not so in that sense i would want to see 00:12:01.289 --> 00:12:05.059 a stronger mix I want to see a stronger local 00:12:05.059 --> 00:12:09.840 investor ecosystem and standing side by side 00:12:09.840 --> 00:12:13.500 with a stronger foreign investor ecosystem. So 00:12:13.500 --> 00:12:15.700 that's what I would like to see. That makes sense. 00:12:15.899 --> 00:12:18.480 Actually, if you think about it, when you have 00:12:18.480 --> 00:12:20.399 a startup and you're able to sell it internationally, 00:12:20.580 --> 00:12:23.360 you're like, why wouldn't you buy shares in an 00:12:23.360 --> 00:12:25.500 Nigerian company? It's such a huge market, right? 00:12:25.519 --> 00:12:27.039 It just makes good sense, good business sense 00:12:27.039 --> 00:12:29.200 as well. Plus, it's a growing economy. We know 00:12:29.200 --> 00:12:31.350 it's going to increase the population. Well, 00:12:31.549 --> 00:12:33.409 just makes perfect sense. What do you think, 00:12:33.529 --> 00:12:36.889 you know, so it's a tricky one. In terms of the 00:12:36.889 --> 00:12:39.190 education system in Nigeria, do you think are 00:12:39.190 --> 00:12:42.190 they, are they teaching people how to be entrepreneurs 00:12:42.190 --> 00:12:44.590 or is this something that's very much self -taught? 00:12:44.789 --> 00:12:46.309 You know, pick up a couple of books or just, 00:12:46.309 --> 00:12:49.169 you just go for it. Okay. So Ricardo, that's, 00:12:49.330 --> 00:12:51.450 um, you're touching, you're touching this very 00:12:51.450 --> 00:12:55.149 soft point, right? But to be honest, things are 00:12:55.149 --> 00:13:00.080 changing. It didn't used to be. The educational 00:13:00.080 --> 00:13:03.940 system is a bit antiquated, right? But things 00:13:03.940 --> 00:13:06.600 are changing. We just got a curriculum refresh 00:13:06.600 --> 00:13:09.879 where, first and foremost, the computer science 00:13:09.879 --> 00:13:15.440 were instant. Computer science has been restructured. 00:13:15.740 --> 00:13:17.840 The computer science program in Nigeria has been 00:13:17.840 --> 00:13:21.919 restructured. So now you have specific courses 00:13:21.919 --> 00:13:24.919 that are related to, say, artificial intelligence, 00:13:25.240 --> 00:13:27.870 you know, software development. you know and 00:13:27.870 --> 00:13:30.070 things like that as opposed to lumping all of 00:13:30.070 --> 00:13:32.730 them into computer science before now right so 00:13:32.730 --> 00:13:35.789 that's one win and that's something that a lot 00:13:35.789 --> 00:13:38.470 of people have had to fight for for a long time 00:13:38.470 --> 00:13:42.129 right in terms of entrepreneurship education 00:13:42.129 --> 00:13:45.570 what's still being taught is not what we would 00:13:45.570 --> 00:13:49.970 love to see taught right and so that's where 00:13:49.970 --> 00:13:53.190 a lot of the hubs that's where a lot of the hubs 00:13:53.190 --> 00:13:57.509 innovation hubs are actually making up for that 00:13:57.509 --> 00:14:00.549 gap. So there's a lot going on in the innovation 00:14:00.549 --> 00:14:04.149 hub ecosystem, because they're making up for 00:14:04.149 --> 00:14:08.830 the gap that exists in the space in our educational 00:14:08.830 --> 00:14:12.409 space. Interesting. And you know, these hubs 00:14:12.409 --> 00:14:15.389 supported by each local government, or are they 00:14:15.389 --> 00:14:17.649 part of the federal government? How are they 00:14:17.649 --> 00:14:22.610 supported? It's a mix. Sorry, it's, it's, it's 00:14:22.610 --> 00:14:27.000 actually a mix, right? There is Before now, there 00:14:27.000 --> 00:14:31.620 was no active government support for the ecosystem, 00:14:31.860 --> 00:14:35.580 for the innovation ecosystem, right? So a lot 00:14:35.580 --> 00:14:38.100 of what has happened in the innovation ecosystem 00:14:38.100 --> 00:14:42.539 has been private, has been privately driven, 00:14:42.980 --> 00:14:46.220 right? There's a lot of conversations around 00:14:46.220 --> 00:14:49.460 the government getting involved and the prime 00:14:49.460 --> 00:14:53.399 minister for, you know, federal, for communication 00:14:53.399 --> 00:14:57.860 and digital. innovation and digital economy happens 00:14:57.860 --> 00:15:02.419 to be someone who used to be in the startup ecosystem. 00:15:02.879 --> 00:15:05.159 In fact, he founded the first innovation hub 00:15:05.159 --> 00:15:09.580 in Nigeria, right? And so now the minister and 00:15:09.580 --> 00:15:12.919 a lot of us are actually expecting so much to 00:15:12.919 --> 00:15:18.220 change, you know, for so much to change. To be 00:15:18.220 --> 00:15:23.259 honest, he's doing, I mean, he's doing quite 00:15:23.259 --> 00:15:28.750 a lot, right? But it would seem that the ecosystem, 00:15:29.950 --> 00:15:35.090 considering all the years of lack of support 00:15:35.090 --> 00:15:39.309 or inactivity from the government side, I don't 00:15:39.309 --> 00:15:42.549 think the ecosystem feels that it's doing so 00:15:42.549 --> 00:15:46.309 much, right? Because it will seem that it will 00:15:46.309 --> 00:15:49.529 seem like, I mean, and this is me giving some 00:15:49.529 --> 00:15:52.299 of the fillers that I get from being part of 00:15:52.299 --> 00:15:55.220 the ecosystem, right? While I think it's a lot 00:15:55.220 --> 00:15:57.899 already, I don't think the ecosystem is feeling 00:15:57.899 --> 00:16:01.039 it because there's a lot of complaint. Maybe 00:16:01.039 --> 00:16:07.080 I think the complaint is coming from the years 00:16:07.080 --> 00:16:12.120 of lack of support and inactivity from the government 00:16:12.120 --> 00:16:14.679 side of things, right? Or lack of understanding 00:16:14.679 --> 00:16:19.539 of what the space is about. So not a lot of people 00:16:19.539 --> 00:16:23.539 giving him the space or the benefit of doubt 00:16:23.539 --> 00:16:27.559 to be able to do or to come to terms with what 00:16:27.559 --> 00:16:31.799 he's trying to do. But some of us are hopeful 00:16:31.799 --> 00:16:37.320 that before he ends his tenure, that we would 00:16:37.320 --> 00:16:40.500 be able to see a huge difference in terms of 00:16:40.500 --> 00:16:43.230 government. activities. And what you know, how 00:16:43.230 --> 00:16:46.090 is it seen to be an entrepreneur culturally in 00:16:46.090 --> 00:16:48.350 Nigeria? For example, I've had guests from Spain, 00:16:48.429 --> 00:16:50.970 they all see that actually, to quit a very good 00:16:50.970 --> 00:16:53.570 job and launch your own company is seen as madness 00:16:53.570 --> 00:16:56.490 in Spain. I know that's the fact in many other 00:16:56.490 --> 00:16:58.350 countries. Whereas in, for example, in UK, people 00:16:58.350 --> 00:17:00.269 see, oh, you launch your own company, and they 00:17:00.269 --> 00:17:01.809 think it's actually quite exciting. And that's 00:17:01.809 --> 00:17:04.430 the way forward to, you know, to achieve, I guess, 00:17:04.690 --> 00:17:07.829 wellness and wellness and all those things. What's 00:17:07.829 --> 00:17:10.809 the case in Nigeria? How has it seen? So, I don't 00:17:10.809 --> 00:17:14.589 know if you've met Nigerians before. Yeah, a 00:17:14.589 --> 00:17:19.829 couple, yes. If you have, you would understand 00:17:19.829 --> 00:17:23.910 that Nigerians are by nature entrepreneurial, 00:17:24.589 --> 00:17:29.230 right? So, entrepreneurship is almost, is part 00:17:29.230 --> 00:17:32.509 of our culture, so to speak. What I don't think 00:17:32.509 --> 00:17:37.319 or what I think we are trying to basically re 00:17:37.319 --> 00:17:40.640 -think is the scale at which we do we engage 00:17:40.640 --> 00:17:43.839 in entrepreneurship and the level of value that 00:17:43.839 --> 00:17:46.900 we get to build when we engage in entrepreneurship, 00:17:47.339 --> 00:17:52.420 right? So but I can tell you for free that Nigerians 00:17:52.420 --> 00:17:55.500 by nature are entrepreneurial, right? Almost 00:17:55.500 --> 00:17:58.799 every Nigeria will always want to find a way 00:17:58.799 --> 00:18:03.119 to add value. Okay? So what the scale is what 00:18:03.119 --> 00:18:07.410 we need to we need to do something about. And 00:18:07.410 --> 00:18:10.710 I think that's one of the reasons why I'm a startup 00:18:10.710 --> 00:18:13.289 champion, I'm a startup ecosystem development 00:18:13.289 --> 00:18:17.029 champion, partly because the startup paradigm 00:18:17.029 --> 00:18:21.369 provides us that skill, the skill mentality, 00:18:21.589 --> 00:18:24.410 the skill side of things. So I think that by 00:18:24.410 --> 00:18:30.490 the time we add this to it, to our nature, Nigeria 00:18:30.490 --> 00:18:33.349 will be... the country to beat globally. Nice. 00:18:33.829 --> 00:18:36.410 And what's the normal ticket size for a startup 00:18:36.410 --> 00:18:38.230 raising money there? Or I guess for a seed round. 00:18:38.410 --> 00:18:41.829 I know, for example, in the UK, in the US, in 00:18:41.829 --> 00:18:44.150 the UK, you can always get by with 250k because 00:18:44.150 --> 00:18:46.430 that's the minimum or the maximum you get for 00:18:46.430 --> 00:18:49.269 SEIS. And then also in the US, it's normally 00:18:49.269 --> 00:18:51.849 around a million for seed funding. So what does 00:18:51.849 --> 00:18:54.650 that landscape looks like in Nigeria? I didn't 00:18:54.650 --> 00:18:57.930 get the question. What I mean is what's the normal 00:18:57.930 --> 00:19:01.009 value for a startup? that's starting out in Nigeria, 00:19:01.210 --> 00:19:05.029 what are the seat tickets like? How much money 00:19:05.029 --> 00:19:08.509 are they trying to raise? So ticket size, right? 00:19:08.630 --> 00:19:11.029 Are you there? The video stopped and also the 00:19:11.029 --> 00:19:14.930 audio. Hold on. I'm disconnected. Hello? Sorry, 00:19:15.009 --> 00:19:22.710 the video stopped and the audio as well. I thought 00:19:22.710 --> 00:19:27.839 it was my end, right? I can hear you now, it 00:19:27.839 --> 00:19:29.539 just stopped on my end. Let me do the question 00:19:29.539 --> 00:19:31.660 again and then we go from there. What's asking 00:19:31.660 --> 00:19:35.660 is what's the normal size for a seat round in 00:19:35.660 --> 00:19:40.660 Nigeria? Okay, so I think it's similar to the 00:19:40.660 --> 00:19:43.299 numbers you've called. A seat round is between 00:19:43.299 --> 00:19:48.680 100k and 500k, right? A nomadic seat ticket to 00:19:48.680 --> 00:19:52.759 be between 100k and 500k. Okay, so I think it's 00:19:52.759 --> 00:19:56.359 similar to... I heard you say the UK is about 00:19:56.359 --> 00:20:00.519 500k, right? No, it's the minimum. People always 00:20:00.519 --> 00:20:03.380 ask for 250k because that's the one they can 00:20:03.380 --> 00:20:08.160 get the SEIS scheme on. Okay. So in Nigeria it's 00:20:08.160 --> 00:20:11.980 about 100k, right? For C, but it could go as 00:20:11.980 --> 00:20:18.079 much as 500k. It depends on the sectors. So sectorally 00:20:18.079 --> 00:20:24.980 driven. And there's no government support. So 00:20:24.980 --> 00:20:27.180 when you actually invest the money, it's all 00:20:27.180 --> 00:20:30.079 risk, right? So if it goes bad, then you actually 00:20:30.079 --> 00:20:32.119 end up losing all the money. Yeah. So I mean, 00:20:32.299 --> 00:20:38.220 that's the risk. Obviously, if you would typically 00:20:38.220 --> 00:20:41.599 ask that you invest money that you can afford 00:20:41.599 --> 00:20:48.079 to lose, right? And so, yeah. But I thought that 00:20:48.079 --> 00:20:50.779 was the same thing in the US, isn't it? Yeah, 00:20:50.799 --> 00:20:53.039 depends on the state and depends on where you're 00:20:53.039 --> 00:20:54.359 investing. But overall, it's always like that. 00:20:54.519 --> 00:20:56.160 If you're going to invest in startups, you need 00:20:56.160 --> 00:20:59.220 to be, I guess, an experienced investor, because 00:20:59.220 --> 00:21:00.940 otherwise you might end up losing your money 00:21:00.940 --> 00:21:02.460 and you might not actually fully understand the 00:21:02.460 --> 00:21:05.619 processes that startups go through. Yeah, I think 00:21:05.619 --> 00:21:09.980 that's five. Well, yeah, I get that. I think 00:21:09.980 --> 00:21:12.700 that's five or six, if I remember. Yeah, exactly. 00:21:14.799 --> 00:21:17.740 I'm curious. So what's your dream for the Nigerian 00:21:17.740 --> 00:21:19.740 ecosystem? How do you see it developing? And 00:21:19.740 --> 00:21:21.259 what do you think the next years are going to 00:21:21.259 --> 00:21:24.720 look like? So I'm excited, right? So I'm excited 00:21:24.720 --> 00:21:27.920 about the future of the Nigerian ecosystem. And 00:21:27.920 --> 00:21:31.359 part of that excitement is because I know that 00:21:31.359 --> 00:21:34.400 a lot of other cities are coming online. For 00:21:34.400 --> 00:21:37.559 instance, there are a lot of activities currently 00:21:37.559 --> 00:21:42.140 happening that is going to bring a lot of cities 00:21:42.140 --> 00:21:46.039 that you probably wouldn't have heard of before 00:21:46.039 --> 00:21:48.319 now. Those cities are coming online basically. 00:21:50.059 --> 00:21:52.940 So the innovation and the quality of the talent 00:21:52.940 --> 00:21:58.339 are also improving, right? So a lot of the current 00:21:58.339 --> 00:22:04.480 talent are either working in some startups that 00:22:04.480 --> 00:22:07.500 have raised money or they are working in a foreign 00:22:07.500 --> 00:22:11.180 company remotely, right? And so they're all learning, 00:22:11.759 --> 00:22:14.720 you know, they're all learning and improving 00:22:14.720 --> 00:22:17.220 themselves. So a lot of these people are going 00:22:17.220 --> 00:22:20.079 to become founders shortly, because obviously 00:22:20.079 --> 00:22:22.799 there are a lot of issues. There are a lot of 00:22:22.799 --> 00:22:25.980 issues with global ramifications in Nigeria that 00:22:25.980 --> 00:22:29.079 needs to be solved. So the same way the Kenyans 00:22:29.079 --> 00:22:34.640 will give us the Shashidis and the Mpesha. I 00:22:34.640 --> 00:22:37.660 expect Nigeria to develop something that can 00:22:37.660 --> 00:22:44.549 go global. And just like our FinTech is currently 00:22:44.549 --> 00:22:49.150 doing, so there are a lot more stuff that can 00:22:49.150 --> 00:22:53.349 grow out of here. I expect solutions from the 00:22:53.349 --> 00:22:55.970 energy sector. I expect solutions from the health 00:22:55.970 --> 00:23:00.349 sector. I expect solutions from logistics, trade, 00:23:00.589 --> 00:23:05.750 and commerce. And then obviously, I expect solutions 00:23:05.750 --> 00:23:11.009 from the climate, resilience, sector as well. 00:23:11.450 --> 00:23:14.190 So there are a lot of expectations for me and 00:23:14.190 --> 00:23:16.829 I think the future is bright. What's your favorite 00:23:16.829 --> 00:23:18.950 startup so far from Nigeria? What's the one you've 00:23:18.950 --> 00:23:21.150 been looking at and actually quite proud of it 00:23:21.150 --> 00:23:24.970 being from Nigeria? So there are a lot of them. 00:23:25.410 --> 00:23:29.009 There are a lot of them, but you know how they 00:23:29.009 --> 00:23:32.789 say it, my favorite startup would be one of my 00:23:32.789 --> 00:23:37.250 portfolio companies, right? And so it would be 00:23:37.500 --> 00:23:41.960 a startup called SiteMap or House Africa. So 00:23:41.960 --> 00:23:47.900 SiteMap is creating infrastructure for real estate 00:23:47.900 --> 00:23:55.279 developers. They're basically creating transparency 00:23:55.279 --> 00:23:58.740 in the real estate space. In a nutshell, they're 00:23:58.740 --> 00:24:00.660 basically an operating system for real estate 00:24:00.660 --> 00:24:04.859 developers. That's who they are. And so that 00:24:04.859 --> 00:24:06.900 would be my favorite startup, but there are so 00:24:06.900 --> 00:24:09.740 many other startups that could make that list, 00:24:09.759 --> 00:24:13.960 you know, but of course, it has to be my startup. 00:24:14.299 --> 00:24:16.160 I mean, you should be proud of your own startup, 00:24:16.279 --> 00:24:21.380 right? So that's always a good sign. So as we 00:24:21.380 --> 00:24:24.299 getting near to the end of the podcast, if people 00:24:24.299 --> 00:24:26.160 were going to shout to you, how can you do so? 00:24:26.920 --> 00:24:30.740 So my LinkedIn is still my best, is the best. 00:24:30.920 --> 00:24:33.400 place to reach out to me. And the name is Uche 00:24:33.400 --> 00:24:36.799 and Uche on LinkedIn, right? Or you can reach 00:24:36.799 --> 00:24:40.319 out to me on Twitter or Instagram at new Havila, 00:24:40.599 --> 00:24:44.880 at Havila2 actually, Havila2, H -A -V -I -L -A 00:24:44.880 --> 00:24:49.640 -H -2, right? But LinkedIn is, LinkedIn is my, 00:24:49.640 --> 00:24:52.680 is, is, is my recommended place to reach out. 00:24:53.079 --> 00:24:54.740 Sounds good. Uche, thank you so much for your 00:24:54.740 --> 00:24:56.539 time. I really appreciate our conversation. Thank 00:24:56.539 --> 00:24:59.319 you, Ricardo. Thank you so much. Thank you. All 00:24:59.319 --> 00:25:02.150 right. The podcast is also sponsored by Notion 00:25:02.150 --> 00:25:05.069 .so. Notion is offering six months for free for 00:25:05.069 --> 00:25:07.549 new users. Make sure you check out our website, 00:25:07.809 --> 00:25:10.269 thestarupevents .co .uk to read in this offer. 00:25:10.609 --> 00:25:13.509 This podcast is also sponsored by startupnetworks 00:25:13.509 --> 00:25:17.089 .co .uk. Startup Networks, it's an online forum 00:25:17.089 --> 00:25:19.109 where you can find all the resources you need 00:25:19.109 --> 00:25:21.630 to run your startup, from grants to investors 00:25:21.630 --> 00:25:23.789 to tips and tricks on how to be successful in 00:25:23.789 --> 00:25:26.569 your startup. This podcast is also sponsored 00:25:26.569 --> 00:25:30.140 by ODEV Tech. ODEV Tech is your premier software 00:25:30.140 --> 00:25:32.039 development partner. Make sure you check them 00:25:32.039 --> 00:25:34.819 out at odev .tech