Welcome to the Innovation Conversation, a podcast
about innovators, both in business and real life.
Hosted by myself, Ricardo Rescual and Harry McCona.
This podcast is also sponsored by ODEV Tech.
ODEV Tech is your premier software development
partner. Make sure you check them out at odev
.tech. The podcast is also sponsored by Notion
.so. Notion is offering six months for free for
new users. Make sure you check out our website,
thestoreofevents .co .uk to read in the software.
Hi, and welcome to another episode of the Innovation
Conversation. Today we are joined by Uche Eniche.
Uche, welcome to the podcast. Thank you so much,
Ricardo. It's a pleasure to be here. It's a pleasure
having you here. Uche, would you like to introduce
yourself to the audience, please? Yeah, so Ricardo,
I said to people that I wear so many hats, but
the core of me is... a startup ecosystem development
person, professional if you would. I am the convener
of Startup South, which is a startup ecosystem
advocacy organization, development and advocacy
organization focused, well initially focusing
on the South -South and the South -East of Nigeria,
but I'm also the general partner at Rebel State
Capital, which is a venture capital firm. focusing
on Africa's emerging or what we call secondary
cities, right? And then I also founded the South
-South Eastern Jail Network, a group of professionals
investing in founders in the South -South and
South -East of Nigeria. It's quite a lot to unravel
there. How did you get started in all this startup
journey and also investing? So first off, I started
as an entrepreneur. I started as a tech entrepreneur,
my tech enthusiast. Professionally, I have communication
background from graphics to corporate communications
to marketing communications, audio, visual, multimedia.
I got into all of that, tried to build a business
around that, and then ultimately saw a need to
build to champion the emergence of a startup
ecosystem within my region of Nigeria. And then
I got into that through Startup South. And that
was 2015. And since then, till now, we've had
to find, we've been on that. And along that journey,
we are discovering other opportunities to create
value, right? And that's how the South -South
Eastern Geo Network was born. And that's also
how the rebel seed capital was also born, right?
But that doesn't stop me from continuing in supporting
founders and helping them refine their ideas
and taking them, helping them scale, basically.
So that's basically what I tried to do at the
core. How well developed was Nigeria's ecosystem
in terms of startups? Was it something that people
were aware how how everything worked, or was
this just starting out when you started on 2015?
So up until, how well developed is Nigeria's
startup ecosystem? That's the question obviously,
right? So up until two years ago, Nigeria received
almost 50 to 60%, if not more, of the funding
that comes into the startup ecosystem in Africa.
So that tells you something about the country.
Only about two years ago, 2023 and up to 2024,
that Nigeria has fallen behind countries like
Egypt and Kenya in terms of the amount of funding
that comes into Nigeria or startups right now.
That gives you an idea. But the truth is, just
to blow your mind, the truth is that whatever
it is that you have going on in Nigeria is only
what is reported because there's a lot more going
on that is not reported in terms of the startup
ecosystem because a lot of what you hear a lot
of what is done is mostly in the Lagos area right
but Nigeria has several advanced cities if you
would because it's a country of over 200 million
people and we operate, you know, regions, right?
We have six regions and we have states, about
50, 36 states plus the capital, right? So in
each of this region, like the South -South has
six states, South East has six states. Combined,
those two regions are 60 million people, right?
60 million people. If they were to be a country,
they would be... they I think there would be
the fourth or the fifth largest country in Africa
only um I think after Ethiopia or so right that's
how big and I'm talking about just two regions
out of in Nigeria so not to talk about the entire
entire country right Lagos alone has 20 Lagos
is a state Lagos alone has 20 million people
I'm sure that could begin to give you an idea.
You're based in Europe, right? I'm sure you know
a lot of countries that this region alone is
way bigger than, okay? So that's an idea of what's
going on and that's an idea of the opportunity
that exists in Nigeria as a country. Is there,
in terms of the legal system, is there any government
support for investors to actually invest in startups?
Or how is it done? For example, in the UK, there's
things like the SCIS scheme that actually helps
quite a lot of startups get funding and reduces
the exposure of investors to risk. Does the same
apply in Nigeria or not really? Yeah. So yes,
it's still in its infancy, but yet the support
is coming on. The Nigerian Startup Act was passed
two years ago. Yeah, over two years ago. And
in that act has some support and some incentive
for investors to invest in Startups within Nigeria,
right? So that act is currently, that's a law,
right? It's currently undergoing the implementation
processes. So obviously, it didn't used to be
there, but now it is, we're beginning to have
that. And so I'm sure by the time the law takes
effect, there will be a lot of support. But that
nowithstanding, the different state governments
are doing a lot, including the federal government,
right? They are doing so much to actually support
and encourage. They are doing so much to encourage,
you know, the, what's it called? To encourage.
investment into the startup space and into the
technology space. So what do you think are the
biggest challenges for, you know, for a startup
in Nigeria? So when it comes to biggest challenges,
obviously, I don't like to talk about challenges
in themselves, right? Because as you know, challenges
are opportunities, right? And depending on how
you look at it, right? So however, when it comes
to challenges, you know, mostly what people will
tell you would be Number one is there is too
much fragmentation in terms of jurisdiction.
Yes, we operate a federal system and then the
sub -regional or the sub -national government,
there will always be that tension between what
the federal government is doing and what the
sub -national is doing. Of course, there's also
this inconsistency in policies. Those are some
of the challenges. But I don't think those challenges
are peculiar to Nigeria. I'm sure they also exist
in different other places. But I think what is
important is that a lot is already being done
to streamline some of those issues and make it
easier for people to get involved in the ecosystem.
But of course, if you ask founders, right, funders
will tell you that their biggest challenge is
funding and that you know that's to be expected
that's to be expected so yeah so like almost
everywhere else funding is still a challenge
maybe is even a bit more challenge in in nigeria
and by extension africa compared to europe and
and and the rest of the west but yes those are
still issues So where do the main investors that
invest in Nigerian startups come from? Are they
all local just from Nigeria or you actually have
people coming in from other countries in Africa
or outside of Africa as well? So repeat that
question again. What I'm curious about is just
understanding how international the ecosystem
is. In Europe it's very common for startups to
get investment from other countries in Europe,
or for investors to be based in other countries
in Europe and then to invest locally. And I'm
wondering if it's the same case in Nigeria. Do
you also have investors coming in, I don't know,
from South Africa or Egypt, for example, or is
this very much an enclosed ecosystem? Okay, so
I think that's an interesting question, right?
Yeah, at the moment, at the moment, much more
of the investors still come from Silicon Valley,
right? Outside of Africa. However, Nigeria is
one of those countries in Africa where you have
a large and growing pool of local investors getting
involved in the startup ecosystem. So I think
that our investment space is becoming very busy
and active, right? It's one of those the most,
well, maybe outside of South Africa, it's one
of the most active. But it's still not where
we want it to be. We basically want We want to
see a lot more local presence in the investment,
on the investment side, right? And because I
believe that the local fund would do more to
attract the better foreign funds, in my opinion.
So that's why we want to see more local investors,
you know, show up and get involved. So what would
you change when it comes to investment? just
trying to get more foreigners to invest? What
would I change? No, no, no, no. I would want
to see a stronger mix, right? There will always
be that important for the foreign investors to
come because of the global exposure and the additional
impact on exit potential, right? So, I mean,
I know that a number of people would argue that
your economy should actually develop to the point
where exit should happen naturally within the
economy right but and i agree with them but you
should also realize that we have been preached
or we have been sold globalization if if it makes
a lot of sense to get more money by selling globally
why not so in that sense i would want to see
a stronger mix I want to see a stronger local
investor ecosystem and standing side by side
with a stronger foreign investor ecosystem. So
that's what I would like to see. That makes sense.
Actually, if you think about it, when you have
a startup and you're able to sell it internationally,
you're like, why wouldn't you buy shares in an
Nigerian company? It's such a huge market, right?
It just makes good sense, good business sense
as well. Plus, it's a growing economy. We know
it's going to increase the population. Well,
just makes perfect sense. What do you think,
you know, so it's a tricky one. In terms of the
education system in Nigeria, do you think are
they, are they teaching people how to be entrepreneurs
or is this something that's very much self -taught?
You know, pick up a couple of books or just,
you just go for it. Okay. So Ricardo, that's,
um, you're touching, you're touching this very
soft point, right? But to be honest, things are
changing. It didn't used to be. The educational
system is a bit antiquated, right? But things
are changing. We just got a curriculum refresh
where, first and foremost, the computer science
were instant. Computer science has been restructured.
The computer science program in Nigeria has been
restructured. So now you have specific courses
that are related to, say, artificial intelligence,
you know, software development. you know and
things like that as opposed to lumping all of
them into computer science before now right so
that's one win and that's something that a lot
of people have had to fight for for a long time
right in terms of entrepreneurship education
what's still being taught is not what we would
love to see taught right and so that's where
a lot of the hubs that's where a lot of the hubs
innovation hubs are actually making up for that
gap. So there's a lot going on in the innovation
hub ecosystem, because they're making up for
the gap that exists in the space in our educational
space. Interesting. And you know, these hubs
supported by each local government, or are they
part of the federal government? How are they
supported? It's a mix. Sorry, it's, it's, it's
actually a mix, right? There is Before now, there
was no active government support for the ecosystem,
for the innovation ecosystem, right? So a lot
of what has happened in the innovation ecosystem
has been private, has been privately driven,
right? There's a lot of conversations around
the government getting involved and the prime
minister for, you know, federal, for communication
and digital. innovation and digital economy happens
to be someone who used to be in the startup ecosystem.
In fact, he founded the first innovation hub
in Nigeria, right? And so now the minister and
a lot of us are actually expecting so much to
change, you know, for so much to change. To be
honest, he's doing, I mean, he's doing quite
a lot, right? But it would seem that the ecosystem,
considering all the years of lack of support
or inactivity from the government side, I don't
think the ecosystem feels that it's doing so
much, right? Because it will seem that it will
seem like, I mean, and this is me giving some
of the fillers that I get from being part of
the ecosystem, right? While I think it's a lot
already, I don't think the ecosystem is feeling
it because there's a lot of complaint. Maybe
I think the complaint is coming from the years
of lack of support and inactivity from the government
side of things, right? Or lack of understanding
of what the space is about. So not a lot of people
giving him the space or the benefit of doubt
to be able to do or to come to terms with what
he's trying to do. But some of us are hopeful
that before he ends his tenure, that we would
be able to see a huge difference in terms of
government. activities. And what you know, how
is it seen to be an entrepreneur culturally in
Nigeria? For example, I've had guests from Spain,
they all see that actually, to quit a very good
job and launch your own company is seen as madness
in Spain. I know that's the fact in many other
countries. Whereas in, for example, in UK, people
see, oh, you launch your own company, and they
think it's actually quite exciting. And that's
the way forward to, you know, to achieve, I guess,
wellness and wellness and all those things. What's
the case in Nigeria? How has it seen? So, I don't
know if you've met Nigerians before. Yeah, a
couple, yes. If you have, you would understand
that Nigerians are by nature entrepreneurial,
right? So, entrepreneurship is almost, is part
of our culture, so to speak. What I don't think
or what I think we are trying to basically re
-think is the scale at which we do we engage
in entrepreneurship and the level of value that
we get to build when we engage in entrepreneurship,
right? So but I can tell you for free that Nigerians
by nature are entrepreneurial, right? Almost
every Nigeria will always want to find a way
to add value. Okay? So what the scale is what
we need to we need to do something about. And
I think that's one of the reasons why I'm a startup
champion, I'm a startup ecosystem development
champion, partly because the startup paradigm
provides us that skill, the skill mentality,
the skill side of things. So I think that by
the time we add this to it, to our nature, Nigeria
will be... the country to beat globally. Nice.
And what's the normal ticket size for a startup
raising money there? Or I guess for a seed round.
I know, for example, in the UK, in the US, in
the UK, you can always get by with 250k because
that's the minimum or the maximum you get for
SEIS. And then also in the US, it's normally
around a million for seed funding. So what does
that landscape looks like in Nigeria? I didn't
get the question. What I mean is what's the normal
value for a startup? that's starting out in Nigeria,
what are the seat tickets like? How much money
are they trying to raise? So ticket size, right?
Are you there? The video stopped and also the
audio. Hold on. I'm disconnected. Hello? Sorry,
the video stopped and the audio as well. I thought
it was my end, right? I can hear you now, it
just stopped on my end. Let me do the question
again and then we go from there. What's asking
is what's the normal size for a seat round in
Nigeria? Okay, so I think it's similar to the
numbers you've called. A seat round is between
100k and 500k, right? A nomadic seat ticket to
be between 100k and 500k. Okay, so I think it's
similar to... I heard you say the UK is about
500k, right? No, it's the minimum. People always
ask for 250k because that's the one they can
get the SEIS scheme on. Okay. So in Nigeria it's
about 100k, right? For C, but it could go as
much as 500k. It depends on the sectors. So sectorally
driven. And there's no government support. So
when you actually invest the money, it's all
risk, right? So if it goes bad, then you actually
end up losing all the money. Yeah. So I mean,
that's the risk. Obviously, if you would typically
ask that you invest money that you can afford
to lose, right? And so, yeah. But I thought that
was the same thing in the US, isn't it? Yeah,
depends on the state and depends on where you're
investing. But overall, it's always like that.
If you're going to invest in startups, you need
to be, I guess, an experienced investor, because
otherwise you might end up losing your money
and you might not actually fully understand the
processes that startups go through. Yeah, I think
that's five. Well, yeah, I get that. I think
that's five or six, if I remember. Yeah, exactly.
I'm curious. So what's your dream for the Nigerian
ecosystem? How do you see it developing? And
what do you think the next years are going to
look like? So I'm excited, right? So I'm excited
about the future of the Nigerian ecosystem. And
part of that excitement is because I know that
a lot of other cities are coming online. For
instance, there are a lot of activities currently
happening that is going to bring a lot of cities
that you probably wouldn't have heard of before
now. Those cities are coming online basically.
So the innovation and the quality of the talent
are also improving, right? So a lot of the current
talent are either working in some startups that
have raised money or they are working in a foreign
company remotely, right? And so they're all learning,
you know, they're all learning and improving
themselves. So a lot of these people are going
to become founders shortly, because obviously
there are a lot of issues. There are a lot of
issues with global ramifications in Nigeria that
needs to be solved. So the same way the Kenyans
will give us the Shashidis and the Mpesha. I
expect Nigeria to develop something that can
go global. And just like our FinTech is currently
doing, so there are a lot more stuff that can
grow out of here. I expect solutions from the
energy sector. I expect solutions from the health
sector. I expect solutions from logistics, trade,
and commerce. And then obviously, I expect solutions
from the climate, resilience, sector as well.
So there are a lot of expectations for me and
I think the future is bright. What's your favorite
startup so far from Nigeria? What's the one you've
been looking at and actually quite proud of it
being from Nigeria? So there are a lot of them.
There are a lot of them, but you know how they
say it, my favorite startup would be one of my
portfolio companies, right? And so it would be
a startup called SiteMap or House Africa. So
SiteMap is creating infrastructure for real estate
developers. They're basically creating transparency
in the real estate space. In a nutshell, they're
basically an operating system for real estate
developers. That's who they are. And so that
would be my favorite startup, but there are so
many other startups that could make that list,
you know, but of course, it has to be my startup.
I mean, you should be proud of your own startup,
right? So that's always a good sign. So as we
getting near to the end of the podcast, if people
were going to shout to you, how can you do so?
So my LinkedIn is still my best, is the best.
place to reach out to me. And the name is Uche
and Uche on LinkedIn, right? Or you can reach
out to me on Twitter or Instagram at new Havila,
at Havila2 actually, Havila2, H -A -V -I -L -A
-H -2, right? But LinkedIn is, LinkedIn is my,
is, is, is my recommended place to reach out.
Sounds good. Uche, thank you so much for your
time. I really appreciate our conversation. Thank
you, Ricardo. Thank you so much. Thank you. All
right. The podcast is also sponsored by Notion
.so. Notion is offering six months for free for
new users. Make sure you check out our website,
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This podcast is also sponsored by startupnetworks
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to tips and tricks on how to be successful in
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