WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.859 Welcome to the Innovation Conversation, a podcast 00:00:02.859 --> 00:00:05.419 about innovators, both in business and real life. 00:00:05.879 --> 00:00:08.380 Hosted by myself, Ricardo Rescual and Harry McCona. 00:00:08.480 --> 00:00:11.699 This podcast is also sponsored by ODEV Tech. 00:00:12.439 --> 00:00:14.640 ODEV Tech is your premier software development 00:00:14.640 --> 00:00:18.019 partner. Make sure you check them out at odev 00:00:18.019 --> 00:00:22.399 .tech. The podcast is also sponsored by Notion 00:00:22.399 --> 00:00:25.359 .so. Notion is offering six months for free for 00:00:25.359 --> 00:00:27.839 new users. Make sure you check out our website, 00:00:28.039 --> 00:00:30.600 thestoreofevents .co .uk to read in the software. 00:00:31.640 --> 00:00:34.100 Hi, and welcome to another episode of the Innovation 00:00:34.100 --> 00:00:36.700 Conversation. Today we are joined by Tom Lauren. 00:00:36.979 --> 00:00:40.240 Tom, welcome to the podcast. Thanks for calling. 00:00:40.500 --> 00:00:42.439 Yeah, it's great to be here. It's great to be 00:00:42.439 --> 00:00:44.640 here. Thank you. Tom, would you like to introduce 00:00:44.640 --> 00:00:47.859 yourself to the audience, please? Sure. I'm Tom. 00:00:48.259 --> 00:00:51.619 I'm the founder of Passion Lab, which is a London 00:00:51.619 --> 00:00:55.109 -based AI machine learning laboratory. We design 00:00:55.109 --> 00:00:57.329 and develop bespoke machine learning solutions 00:00:57.329 --> 00:01:01.869 for businesses, all shapes and sizes. But yeah, 00:01:01.929 --> 00:01:06.010 I'm a born and bred Londoner and love this city, 00:01:06.370 --> 00:01:09.269 albeit with the UKs going through a bit of a 00:01:09.269 --> 00:01:11.670 market correction, put it that way. But things 00:01:11.670 --> 00:01:14.709 are hopefully going to gradually look up and 00:01:14.709 --> 00:01:18.269 yeah. So yeah, no, all good. You're one of the 00:01:18.269 --> 00:01:20.890 few, not few, but in London, I think it's 50 00:01:20.890 --> 00:01:23.209 -50, isn't it? people actually being born in 00:01:23.209 --> 00:01:25.930 London and elsewhere outside of the UK and also 00:01:25.930 --> 00:01:31.329 outside of... Yeah. It's a wonderful melting 00:01:31.329 --> 00:01:34.390 pot of all sorts of people. And for that reason, 00:01:34.390 --> 00:01:36.530 I love it. I wouldn't change it for the world. 00:01:37.250 --> 00:01:40.829 And I think it's rare in terms of global cities 00:01:40.829 --> 00:01:45.310 to have that level of diversity and cohesion 00:01:45.310 --> 00:01:48.269 as well on the whole. And I think it's... No, 00:01:48.269 --> 00:01:50.430 I love the city. It's also got an abundance of 00:01:50.430 --> 00:01:54.670 opportunity. in the sense that, you know, again, 00:01:54.870 --> 00:01:58.430 for all its challenges, it has a, you know, it's 00:01:58.430 --> 00:02:02.790 a very mature economy and there are lots of, 00:02:02.790 --> 00:02:05.250 from service led businesses, well, businesses 00:02:05.250 --> 00:02:07.590 of all shapes and sizes. And you look in the 00:02:07.590 --> 00:02:11.129 right places, there's a hungry ambition. Maybe 00:02:11.129 --> 00:02:13.469 not quite like the Americans or the New Yorkers, 00:02:13.550 --> 00:02:15.550 but like it. So there's a hungry ambition, I 00:02:15.550 --> 00:02:18.629 think here still in London. Well, at least we 00:02:18.629 --> 00:02:20.800 know that London does get its sleep. unlike New 00:02:20.800 --> 00:02:23.099 York, right? You never stop sleep for brainy 00:02:23.099 --> 00:02:24.699 sleepers. In London, people actually do go home 00:02:24.699 --> 00:02:26.719 and get a little, a good night rest every once 00:02:26.719 --> 00:02:29.400 in a while. Every once in a while, not all the 00:02:29.400 --> 00:02:32.139 time, but yeah. All right, Tom, tell me a bit 00:02:32.139 --> 00:02:34.419 more about National Lab and how you came to be, 00:02:34.419 --> 00:02:36.960 you know, the CEO. Sure. But also how do you 00:02:36.960 --> 00:02:39.240 get to that point? Well, let me actually, let 00:02:39.240 --> 00:02:41.740 me start that way around then. So I've done various 00:02:41.740 --> 00:02:44.800 things in my career. I'm in my early thirties 00:02:44.800 --> 00:02:49.120 for full transparency and first cut my teeth 00:02:49.120 --> 00:02:52.669 back at when I was 18 years old in recruitment 00:02:52.669 --> 00:02:57.090 in headhunting um my really he was my first sort 00:02:57.090 --> 00:03:00.469 of mentor man called John Gardner he gave me 00:03:00.469 --> 00:03:03.949 my first job at a company called NBI and I was 00:03:03.949 --> 00:03:06.610 a research associate there and I was basically 00:03:06.610 --> 00:03:08.629 you know told to go and actually you know find 00:03:08.629 --> 00:03:11.310 some interesting candidates for various roles 00:03:11.310 --> 00:03:13.870 big roles but it was a great first foray into 00:03:13.870 --> 00:03:16.110 business and out of school and it was a great 00:03:16.110 --> 00:03:18.539 it was a great It was a small enough business 00:03:18.539 --> 00:03:21.080 that you got to sense that, you know, of all 00:03:21.080 --> 00:03:23.159 the different moving parts and the energy involved 00:03:23.159 --> 00:03:26.280 in a kind of high growth business like that one. 00:03:27.000 --> 00:03:29.479 Anyway, they actually sponsored me initially 00:03:29.479 --> 00:03:33.759 through university and through Bristol University. 00:03:34.580 --> 00:03:37.300 I wasn't very good at watching daytime TV though, 00:03:37.300 --> 00:03:40.280 so at any sort of free moment, I was looking 00:03:40.280 --> 00:03:43.099 at new ways or new ideas or new businesses to 00:03:43.099 --> 00:03:46.969 launch and got myself quite immersed in the whole 00:03:46.969 --> 00:03:50.469 event and artist management space. Managed and 00:03:50.469 --> 00:03:53.949 ran or set up a company called Foundation Present, 00:03:54.610 --> 00:03:57.949 which ran basically nights over the course of 00:03:57.949 --> 00:04:01.830 three years. We did pretty well. What was essentially 00:04:01.830 --> 00:04:05.250 a team of nightclub promoters giving it a good 00:04:05.250 --> 00:04:08.310 shot. I think at one point we ran 27 nights in 00:04:08.310 --> 00:04:11.409 a month and turned over some pretty good cash. 00:04:11.710 --> 00:04:18.399 It was good again. It was. It was. But yeah, 00:04:18.459 --> 00:04:22.899 I left Bristol with a first in politics and then 00:04:22.899 --> 00:04:27.920 decided, as you would, with the support, with 00:04:27.920 --> 00:04:31.220 two others, launched an ice cream business called 00:04:31.220 --> 00:04:36.259 Pops. Myself and two others, James and Harry, 00:04:37.139 --> 00:04:39.240 they'd spearheaded the idea and they needed someone 00:04:39.240 --> 00:04:41.620 to come on board and lead a lot of their sales 00:04:41.620 --> 00:04:44.220 and the commercial side. And so I came on board 00:04:44.220 --> 00:04:47.899 in 2014 as a sort of founding partner of Pops. 00:04:48.439 --> 00:04:51.500 And again, that was a bit of a step change from 00:04:51.500 --> 00:04:54.779 nightclubs to ice cream. And we ended up in the 00:04:54.779 --> 00:04:57.120 course of four years, we sold, I think just shy 00:04:57.120 --> 00:05:01.000 of 9 million ice lollies and ice creams. We did 00:05:01.000 --> 00:05:04.180 a JV with Diageo, created a Pimms and bought 00:05:04.180 --> 00:05:07.420 a Ginatonic ice lolly. And we had an office in 00:05:07.420 --> 00:05:10.800 Melbourne. And in Ibiza, where else? And obviously, 00:05:11.079 --> 00:05:16.060 and in London, yeah, it was, it was, again, that 00:05:16.060 --> 00:05:18.139 was the sort of, that was the step up from that, 00:05:18.439 --> 00:05:21.139 from foundations through to POPs. That was a 00:05:21.139 --> 00:05:23.060 step up. We were now kind of in the sort of so 00:05:23.060 --> 00:05:25.360 -called, I don't know, teenage years or whatever, 00:05:25.480 --> 00:05:27.100 trying to work things through and work things 00:05:27.100 --> 00:05:31.139 out. And then I left in 2014, following our exit 00:05:31.139 --> 00:05:35.279 to a contract caterer, to Bruce. We then moved 00:05:35.279 --> 00:05:39.079 and... And then I got head on to that, she could 00:05:39.079 --> 00:05:44.220 join as a co -founder of another consumer lifestyle 00:05:44.220 --> 00:05:49.699 business called Oto. And I spent and have spent 00:05:49.699 --> 00:05:54.980 the last, well, four years from 2018 to 2022 00:05:54.980 --> 00:05:58.259 building that business. And again, some great 00:05:58.259 --> 00:06:02.160 successes in loads of learning curves and loads 00:06:02.160 --> 00:06:05.620 of learnings. And it was, it was again, it was 00:06:05.620 --> 00:06:08.779 a fascinating journey, that one. And in 2002, 00:06:10.139 --> 00:06:13.100 I decided to step back from that and we, and 00:06:13.100 --> 00:06:15.100 go into something totally fresh. I wanted to 00:06:15.100 --> 00:06:19.240 try something really new and really challenge 00:06:19.240 --> 00:06:22.120 myself. And I, I'd spent 10 years in the kind 00:06:22.120 --> 00:06:26.459 of consumer brand space. Tough, you know, it's 00:06:26.459 --> 00:06:29.339 a, it's a real, it's a hustle, you know, consumer 00:06:29.339 --> 00:06:32.629 market was fickle, Brexit didn't help. COVID 00:06:32.629 --> 00:06:35.370 certainly didn't help. And so I was wanting to 00:06:35.370 --> 00:06:37.930 try something new and have some real intention 00:06:37.930 --> 00:06:41.269 in my next move. In the past, I'd fallen from 00:06:41.269 --> 00:06:46.250 one thing to the next, you know, one conversation 00:06:46.250 --> 00:06:48.470 led to another. And then, you know, there, there 00:06:48.470 --> 00:06:51.209 I was, you know, in the business, whereas I wanted 00:06:51.209 --> 00:06:53.810 to stand back and go, okay, what does the next 00:06:53.810 --> 00:06:55.550 10 years look like? What the next 20 years look 00:06:55.550 --> 00:06:58.529 like? I have real intention in my actions. So 00:06:58.529 --> 00:07:03.620 actually for First part of 2023, I took a four 00:07:03.620 --> 00:07:06.100 month sabbatical. One of the best things I've 00:07:06.100 --> 00:07:08.560 done and didn't go traveling, but really tried 00:07:08.560 --> 00:07:11.540 to use that time as constructively as possible, 00:07:11.899 --> 00:07:15.000 as possibly, you know, and try and try and do 00:07:15.000 --> 00:07:17.220 something really, really worthwhile with that 00:07:17.220 --> 00:07:20.600 time. And in that period, it was just that the 00:07:20.600 --> 00:07:24.100 whole applied generative AI boom began to really 00:07:24.100 --> 00:07:27.740 take you know, really, really, you know, really, 00:07:27.899 --> 00:07:30.459 really started emerging. And it was at that point 00:07:30.459 --> 00:07:32.819 that, you know, when we started seeing it very 00:07:32.819 --> 00:07:36.060 much in on, you know, on the newspapers, on TV 00:07:36.060 --> 00:07:38.060 that I realized that, you know, this is the space 00:07:38.060 --> 00:07:40.879 that I really wanted to go into. So I spent the 00:07:40.879 --> 00:07:43.699 best part of the last 18 months, combination 00:07:43.699 --> 00:07:46.240 of various different, I went back to university 00:07:46.240 --> 00:07:49.240 today, did a kind of executive management program 00:07:49.240 --> 00:07:52.500 in the sort of foundations of AI, machine learning. 00:07:52.779 --> 00:07:55.839 I did recently one with University around sort 00:07:55.839 --> 00:07:58.060 of AI product market specialization, product 00:07:58.060 --> 00:08:01.220 specialization. And then I've spent the last 00:08:01.220 --> 00:08:05.759 year from about August, 2023, commercializing 00:08:05.759 --> 00:08:08.899 a machine learning research lab called Kerasos 00:08:08.899 --> 00:08:13.180 and had some great successes with that. But more 00:08:13.180 --> 00:08:16.480 recently, that was tied to a venture studio and 00:08:16.480 --> 00:08:20.100 more recently was keen to do my own thing. And 00:08:20.100 --> 00:08:22.420 so subsequently I've launched the Fashion Lab, 00:08:22.680 --> 00:08:25.899 which is a sort of AI and machine learning laboratory, 00:08:26.139 --> 00:08:27.620 designing and developing tools for different 00:08:27.620 --> 00:08:31.019 businesses, mainly kind of medium -sized to small 00:08:31.019 --> 00:08:33.259 -sized businesses, scale -ups, looking to kind 00:08:33.259 --> 00:08:36.399 of build AI. So yeah, that's a long -winded answer 00:08:36.399 --> 00:08:39.899 to your short question, but hopefully it gives 00:08:39.899 --> 00:08:42.440 you a sense of why I'm here. how I got here. 00:08:42.960 --> 00:08:44.679 It's great. And it actually gives me a lot of 00:08:44.679 --> 00:08:47.960 follow -up questions to do now. Now I'm just 00:08:47.960 --> 00:08:50.000 curious on one thing, because you actually, you've 00:08:50.000 --> 00:08:52.100 been in business for quite some time. You've 00:08:52.100 --> 00:08:54.779 grown business successfully and now you're building 00:08:54.779 --> 00:08:57.480 something in AI that actually helps other businesses 00:08:57.480 --> 00:09:00.639 to be successful as well. What are the key features 00:09:00.639 --> 00:09:03.299 that, you know, that you need to implement in 00:09:03.299 --> 00:09:04.919 order to make a business successful? Because 00:09:04.919 --> 00:09:07.759 you've done that all in the past. I've done it 00:09:07.759 --> 00:09:11.070 in various different ways in the past and There 00:09:11.070 --> 00:09:17.029 are so many different business books and founders 00:09:17.029 --> 00:09:19.450 have written so much about various different 00:09:19.450 --> 00:09:23.090 approaches. Of course, there is no one best approach, 00:09:23.690 --> 00:09:29.309 but I mean, my personal view is, yeah, it of 00:09:29.309 --> 00:09:32.870 course takes grit, determination and resilience. 00:09:33.110 --> 00:09:36.429 It goes without saying to really get moving and 00:09:36.429 --> 00:09:38.529 get pointing in the right direction. It takes 00:09:38.529 --> 00:09:41.139 conviction. I think you've got to have a sense 00:09:41.139 --> 00:09:45.059 of like, you know what, we can, we can do this. 00:09:45.159 --> 00:09:46.639 We've really got to do this. And it's in, you 00:09:46.639 --> 00:09:50.039 know, my way will work as well as anyone else's, 00:09:50.039 --> 00:09:54.940 you know, I think often you can get, we can get, 00:09:55.000 --> 00:09:57.500 we can be prone to in general and talking to 00:09:57.500 --> 00:09:59.299 just, you know, people in general can be kind 00:09:59.299 --> 00:10:01.399 of prone to be knocked off course, you know, 00:10:01.639 --> 00:10:03.440 get pieces of advice that way. And suddenly, 00:10:03.440 --> 00:10:06.139 maybe you should just, you know, throw it all 00:10:06.139 --> 00:10:08.370 out and go that direction instead. You've got 00:10:08.370 --> 00:10:12.269 to be able to really stick to your guns and despite 00:10:12.269 --> 00:10:14.169 sometimes what the market might be saying or 00:10:14.169 --> 00:10:17.450 whatever, you go, no, actually we've got a lot 00:10:17.450 --> 00:10:22.049 more to go on, whether it's customers, what they're 00:10:22.049 --> 00:10:24.269 telling us, validating product and market, those 00:10:24.269 --> 00:10:26.049 kind of things. You've got to be able to really 00:10:26.049 --> 00:10:30.149 have that conviction in kind of where you're 00:10:30.149 --> 00:10:33.159 going. But yeah, I think there's that. I mean, 00:10:33.159 --> 00:10:35.539 it goes to that saying that I also, you know, 00:10:35.659 --> 00:10:38.279 flexibility, nimbleness, the ability to pivot. 00:10:38.620 --> 00:10:42.139 I mean, if I could, if I had a pound for every 00:10:42.139 --> 00:10:45.200 time I pivoted and gone a different, you know, 00:10:45.240 --> 00:10:47.320 because of a certain thing has gone some way 00:10:47.320 --> 00:10:51.039 or another, then, you know, I'd be a lot richer. 00:10:51.220 --> 00:10:54.519 But it is, I think there's definitely that. Um, 00:10:54.899 --> 00:10:57.000 and yeah, just, but also, you know, learn what 00:10:57.000 --> 00:10:59.379 to take seriously and what not to take seriously. 00:11:00.159 --> 00:11:03.799 Sometimes you've won. One can try and take certain 00:11:03.799 --> 00:11:06.360 things too seriously. We're all trying this. 00:11:06.500 --> 00:11:09.159 We're all just, just trying our best here. We're 00:11:09.159 --> 00:11:10.580 all just trying to keep the lights on. We're 00:11:10.580 --> 00:11:12.899 all just trying to, you know, you know, exist 00:11:12.899 --> 00:11:15.820 and continue and grow in this world. And yes, 00:11:15.820 --> 00:11:17.480 of course there are certain things that really 00:11:17.480 --> 00:11:20.220 require like, you know, you know, need to be 00:11:20.220 --> 00:11:22.559 taken seriously, but also you get knocked back 00:11:22.559 --> 00:11:26.059 a bit, laugh it off, move on. And, you know, 00:11:26.120 --> 00:11:28.320 and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, you know, 00:11:28.440 --> 00:11:30.659 approach the next challenge with a kind of but 00:11:30.659 --> 00:11:34.019 in the sense of humor. Are you finding the market 00:11:34.019 --> 00:11:36.899 now that you're doing something in AI, you know, 00:11:36.980 --> 00:11:39.779 for SMEs, are you finding, are they very receptive 00:11:39.779 --> 00:11:43.100 to it or they still might figure out what exactly 00:11:43.100 --> 00:11:46.700 it means for them? There is, as everyone will 00:11:46.700 --> 00:11:49.559 probably not largely know, a gold rush happening 00:11:49.559 --> 00:11:52.139 right in front of our eyes right now. And I've 00:11:52.139 --> 00:11:56.320 been involved in those areas before, but This 00:11:56.320 --> 00:11:58.960 is obviously, this is different, this is a new 00:11:58.960 --> 00:12:01.019 frontier that's being forged right in front of 00:12:01.019 --> 00:12:04.419 our eyes. And there is no doubt, a lot of hype, 00:12:04.659 --> 00:12:08.139 a lot of excitement, you know, a lot of it is 00:12:08.139 --> 00:12:11.539 absolutely valid. I mean, this technology is 00:12:11.539 --> 00:12:16.899 and will transform our lives. Largely, we hope 00:12:16.899 --> 00:12:20.519 for the better, but also, you know, there is, 00:12:21.200 --> 00:12:23.919 you know, not all hype is good hype either. You 00:12:23.919 --> 00:12:25.700 know, we're seeing that in some of the valuations. 00:12:25.899 --> 00:12:28.919 coming out to the US and, and, and also here 00:12:28.919 --> 00:12:33.000 in the UK. And as I say, we're seeing a, um, 00:12:34.000 --> 00:12:36.679 yeah, it's a sudden sort of shift. I mean, you 00:12:36.679 --> 00:12:39.120 know, it's, it's, it's extraordinary speaking 00:12:39.120 --> 00:12:42.080 to certain businesses, you know, big businesses, 00:12:42.379 --> 00:12:44.519 you know, they have, they have talking with Goveting, 00:12:44.620 --> 00:12:46.139 they've just gone right, they're sort of down 00:12:46.139 --> 00:12:47.779 tools and everything else. It's like, what is 00:12:47.779 --> 00:12:50.139 our AI strategy? Where do we focus? How do we 00:12:50.139 --> 00:12:51.980 go after it? It's obviously a deciding thing 00:12:51.980 --> 00:12:53.940 for me to be involved in. And I was speaking 00:12:53.940 --> 00:12:57.120 to businesses at the time. all shapes and sizes, 00:12:58.259 --> 00:13:01.419 largely in that kind of, you know, kind of UK 00:13:01.419 --> 00:13:03.899 definition of a medium -sized enterprise. So 00:13:03.899 --> 00:13:07.080 from kind of like, you know, 30, 40 employees 00:13:07.080 --> 00:13:10.480 up to about 150, 200 employees, you know, turning 00:13:10.480 --> 00:13:14.360 over, I don't know, 5 million plus, 10 million 00:13:14.360 --> 00:13:18.340 plus, that kind of bracket is who we're kind 00:13:18.340 --> 00:13:20.299 of speaking to. And the nice thing and exciting 00:13:20.299 --> 00:13:22.299 thing about this technology is because it's still, 00:13:23.320 --> 00:13:25.950 I mean, it's, you know, in its current form, 00:13:26.029 --> 00:13:28.350 it's in its, you know, relative infancy and what 00:13:28.350 --> 00:13:30.830 in terms of what it's in its capability and it's 00:13:30.830 --> 00:13:35.169 evolving at such a rate that every day there's 00:13:35.169 --> 00:13:36.710 something new to offer. There's something new 00:13:36.710 --> 00:13:38.889 to explore. There's something new to kind of, 00:13:38.889 --> 00:13:43.190 um, you know, upskill people on. And so it's, 00:13:43.269 --> 00:13:46.289 it's exhilarating. You think you actually mentioned 00:13:46.289 --> 00:13:48.450 something actually, which is the upskilling of 00:13:48.450 --> 00:13:50.970 personnel. Do you think that a lot of people 00:13:50.970 --> 00:13:52.570 are going to be left behind? Cause that's always 00:13:52.570 --> 00:13:54.279 something. I'm saying, Oh, you know, a lot of 00:13:54.279 --> 00:13:55.960 people are not going to give up in times and 00:13:55.960 --> 00:13:57.980 whatnot, but I actually think it's going to end 00:13:57.980 --> 00:14:01.240 up creating a lot more. So you need some bigger 00:14:01.240 --> 00:14:03.399 economy. So what do you think about that? Absolutely. 00:14:03.679 --> 00:14:06.120 And I think we began, we only distract ourselves. 00:14:06.259 --> 00:14:12.240 I mean, like we must be careful that there is 00:14:12.240 --> 00:14:17.830 a bubble broadly still. You know, within certain 00:14:17.830 --> 00:14:20.690 people who read certain types of news or are 00:14:20.690 --> 00:14:23.129 in certain types of industries, et cetera, they'll 00:14:23.129 --> 00:14:26.009 be very aware of AI and particularly these generative 00:14:26.009 --> 00:14:28.590 tools that are getting a lot of excitement. But 00:14:28.590 --> 00:14:34.690 there is also that 80 % below whereby they're 00:14:34.690 --> 00:14:36.389 still running their business. They're still running 00:14:36.389 --> 00:14:38.509 in the right direction. They probably heard about 00:14:38.509 --> 00:14:41.190 it. They essentially flirted with ChatGBT and 00:14:41.190 --> 00:14:43.789 things like that. But really for them, it is... 00:14:43.980 --> 00:14:47.519 totally uncharted ground. For me, there's an 00:14:47.519 --> 00:14:49.500 interesting chunk there. Of course, you'll always 00:14:49.500 --> 00:14:51.759 have the 5 % who are very kind of like aware 00:14:51.759 --> 00:14:54.559 and kind of informed of this technology. But 00:14:54.559 --> 00:14:58.399 there's, I mean, I know this, I mean, 5 % of 00:14:58.399 --> 00:15:01.159 businesses have started exploring implementing 00:15:01.159 --> 00:15:05.580 AI, yet 95 % of people have heard about AI. So 00:15:05.580 --> 00:15:10.200 there is a huge gap between awareness and implementation. 00:15:10.200 --> 00:15:14.299 And that is a very exciting sort of you know, 00:15:14.480 --> 00:15:16.980 thing to be able to kind of, you know, work with. 00:15:17.220 --> 00:15:19.100 So yeah, I think, I think it's going to be, it's 00:15:19.100 --> 00:15:21.379 going to be, it's going to be, um, going to be 00:15:21.379 --> 00:15:23.500 careful not to over hype it and realize that 00:15:23.500 --> 00:15:25.220 in fact, there's still lots of people who aren't 00:15:25.220 --> 00:15:29.620 fully yet, you know, a concept or the very, or 00:15:29.620 --> 00:15:31.399 the other side of the spectrum. They're quite 00:15:31.399 --> 00:15:33.799 intimidated by it. What do you think is stopping 00:15:33.799 --> 00:15:36.019 people from actually implementing more solutions, 00:15:36.259 --> 00:15:38.799 more AI solutions onto their business? Because 00:15:38.799 --> 00:15:40.919 we can get tutorials on how to, for example, 00:15:42.929 --> 00:15:44.870 Totally. I think there's a couple of, a couple 00:15:44.870 --> 00:15:48.289 of things. I think some of it comes down to, 00:15:48.509 --> 00:15:51.350 like, emotional behavior, comes down to trust, 00:15:51.509 --> 00:15:55.629 comes down to, um, comes down to kind of, you 00:15:55.629 --> 00:15:57.309 know, credibility and making sure that, you know, 00:15:57.309 --> 00:15:59.850 is this right for me now? Other stuff comes down 00:15:59.850 --> 00:16:04.809 to like, you know, the realities of life. There's 00:16:04.809 --> 00:16:07.570 always, you know, a new and exciting technology, 00:16:07.570 --> 00:16:09.809 maybe not like this one or a tool that, you know, 00:16:09.990 --> 00:16:11.870 one might want to implement into their business. 00:16:12.659 --> 00:16:16.200 the sort of often manana manana kind of mentality, 00:16:16.500 --> 00:16:18.720 you know, we'll do it tomorrow, we will get to 00:16:18.720 --> 00:16:20.639 it, but you know, we're actually really quite 00:16:20.639 --> 00:16:23.120 busy at the moment. And so it's about actually 00:16:23.120 --> 00:16:27.299 trying to again, create an environment which 00:16:27.299 --> 00:16:31.620 is accessible, helps businesses adopt it in a 00:16:31.620 --> 00:16:34.440 way that is not daunting. It is not going to 00:16:34.440 --> 00:16:37.820 be a major upheaval to their workflows and everything 00:16:37.820 --> 00:16:40.120 else. I could do it in kind of conjunction with 00:16:40.120 --> 00:16:42.779 their existing, which From our experience, we're 00:16:42.779 --> 00:16:45.240 able to do, and we have been able to do, and 00:16:45.240 --> 00:16:48.940 again, just be able to, main part of this is 00:16:48.940 --> 00:16:53.399 just education, demystifying it. It is not as, 00:16:53.620 --> 00:16:56.419 I mean, put it this way, these models are extraordinary. 00:16:57.519 --> 00:16:59.919 The time it's taken, you know, remember this 00:16:59.919 --> 00:17:02.340 science, machine learning has been, you know, 00:17:02.419 --> 00:17:05.160 a science since 50s, you know, Alan Turing's 00:17:05.160 --> 00:17:09.170 day. You know, I'm not, I'm not. downplaying 00:17:09.170 --> 00:17:11.309 the extraordinary minds that have gone into it. 00:17:11.549 --> 00:17:14.369 But when you break it down, when you realize 00:17:14.369 --> 00:17:17.109 you've got a set of input data and you've got 00:17:17.109 --> 00:17:20.569 a set of output data and you're creating essentially 00:17:20.569 --> 00:17:24.410 a set of an algorithm, a set of rules to be able 00:17:24.410 --> 00:17:26.009 to do stuff with that data, whether it's making 00:17:26.009 --> 00:17:29.049 prediction or generate new data from it, you 00:17:29.049 --> 00:17:31.230 can begin to break it down in a way that's a 00:17:31.230 --> 00:17:33.430 bit more bite -sized for people and understand 00:17:33.430 --> 00:17:38.750 that what data, which is such an overused word. 00:17:38.930 --> 00:17:41.130 What does that actually mean for people? Like, 00:17:41.230 --> 00:17:44.309 is it images? Is it numbers? Is it videos? What 00:17:44.309 --> 00:17:46.650 is it? You know, how does it look? How is it 00:17:46.650 --> 00:17:48.650 structured? How does it look in your business? 00:17:49.069 --> 00:17:52.349 Once you break it down for people, from my experience, 00:17:52.650 --> 00:17:56.029 it just becomes, people go, oh yeah, actually, 00:17:56.190 --> 00:17:58.809 no, that's not as complicated as I was meant 00:17:58.809 --> 00:18:00.789 to believe. And therefore a little bit more kind 00:18:00.789 --> 00:18:03.309 of receptive. I was just about to ask something 00:18:03.309 --> 00:18:05.730 regarding breaking down barriers, which is, you 00:18:05.730 --> 00:18:07.609 know, in all the businesses you build, I'm sure 00:18:07.609 --> 00:18:09.490 there was many stages where you actually had 00:18:09.490 --> 00:18:11.769 to break down mental barriers that people might 00:18:11.769 --> 00:18:14.089 forge a business saying, this is never going 00:18:14.089 --> 00:18:16.150 to be successful. Maybe it was the ice cream 00:18:16.150 --> 00:18:18.690 business, maybe it was, you know, the nightclub 00:18:18.690 --> 00:18:21.049 business, and now the ice cream business. So, 00:18:21.309 --> 00:18:23.670 is there any tips or tricks you can give to fellow 00:18:23.670 --> 00:18:25.670 entrepreneurs listening in and say, hey, this 00:18:25.670 --> 00:18:27.690 is how you break down problems, how expensive? 00:18:29.309 --> 00:18:31.289 Just... I mean, it's a great point and you're 00:18:31.289 --> 00:18:34.130 right. I mean, we'll always come across sort 00:18:34.130 --> 00:18:40.309 of stigma or the status quo. You know, many people 00:18:40.309 --> 00:18:43.829 are inherently more sea conservative. You know, 00:18:43.829 --> 00:18:46.789 they don't necessarily like, you know, abundant 00:18:46.789 --> 00:18:48.890 and fast change, which is what we're experiencing 00:18:48.890 --> 00:18:51.809 right now. I think you've got to it that every 00:18:51.809 --> 00:18:54.769 single step of the journey put the customer of 00:18:54.769 --> 00:18:57.589 the consumer first. If that be a business, the 00:18:57.589 --> 00:18:59.950 key stakeholders. really bringing them along 00:18:59.950 --> 00:19:02.170 on the journey. And it comes down to precisely 00:19:02.170 --> 00:19:05.190 what I just said. Like it's a combination of 00:19:05.190 --> 00:19:08.170 putting a core foundation in place from a business 00:19:08.170 --> 00:19:10.710 perspective that gives you credibility from the 00:19:10.710 --> 00:19:14.250 onset. You know, sweat, I do think sometimes 00:19:14.250 --> 00:19:16.849 sweat the small stuff, sweat the detail, because 00:19:16.849 --> 00:19:20.089 if it is in the early stages, make sure you do 00:19:20.089 --> 00:19:22.430 dot those eyes, plus those teeth in respect to 00:19:22.430 --> 00:19:24.829 putting the foundations in place because it will 00:19:24.829 --> 00:19:27.839 build for so much something so much bigger, um, 00:19:27.839 --> 00:19:31.720 and I think will help you bring your customer, 00:19:32.240 --> 00:19:34.839 be a business, be a consumer along the journey 00:19:34.839 --> 00:19:38.180 with you more easily. And as I say, I think making 00:19:38.180 --> 00:19:42.180 sure that you're always, you've always got to 00:19:42.180 --> 00:19:46.940 look at how is it useful? How is it delivering 00:19:46.940 --> 00:19:50.099 value? Is it a nice to have? How do you turn 00:19:50.099 --> 00:19:52.460 a nice to have into a must have? And I think 00:19:52.460 --> 00:19:57.019 when you can do that, people, people will put 00:19:57.019 --> 00:19:59.799 aside their prejudices, and they'll give you 00:19:59.799 --> 00:20:03.519 a chance. Now, you know, I'm sure when in your 00:20:03.519 --> 00:20:06.160 career you've had some dark moments, right? There's 00:20:06.160 --> 00:20:10.039 always fears of more uncertainty, more instability. 00:20:10.660 --> 00:20:12.400 How do you deal with it? There are various different 00:20:12.400 --> 00:20:15.619 ways. There are some physical things I do, which 00:20:15.619 --> 00:20:18.920 is walking. I'm a big walker. I live not far 00:20:18.920 --> 00:20:21.400 from the river in Hammersmith, if I just need 00:20:21.400 --> 00:20:24.099 to take a... breath and a break. A walk down 00:20:24.099 --> 00:20:27.079 the river is often the best and most soothing 00:20:27.079 --> 00:20:29.779 kind of reset that I can do. It's more of a kind 00:20:29.779 --> 00:20:32.680 of meditation. Then more kind of like behave 00:20:32.680 --> 00:20:37.500 really otherwise. I have a strong group of mentors 00:20:37.500 --> 00:20:41.019 and friends that I can speak to and I lean into. 00:20:41.539 --> 00:20:45.500 I think we are only kind of as good and strong 00:20:45.500 --> 00:20:48.160 as some of our parts and making sure that you 00:20:48.160 --> 00:20:52.450 do have a strong network in place. be able to 00:20:52.450 --> 00:20:55.670 speak and get advice. I mean, I'm going this 00:20:55.670 --> 00:20:58.849 alone a bit. I've got some great people on board, 00:20:59.230 --> 00:21:02.029 but I mean, yeah, I'm a sole founder in respect 00:21:02.029 --> 00:21:04.950 to Passion Lab. But, you know, behind the scenes, 00:21:05.150 --> 00:21:06.930 there's lots of, there's lots of people actually 00:21:06.930 --> 00:21:09.329 there along the journey with me. I think making 00:21:09.329 --> 00:21:12.109 sure that, yeah, you've got some, like you take 00:21:12.109 --> 00:21:14.670 some time with yourself, whether it's exercise 00:21:14.670 --> 00:21:17.890 or water on the river, and also you surround 00:21:17.890 --> 00:21:21.380 yourself by, um, and great people because at 00:21:21.380 --> 00:21:23.519 that point the rest does fall into place. Who 00:21:23.519 --> 00:21:26.259 inspired you to start this? Because obviously, 00:21:26.460 --> 00:21:27.599 you know, you didn't wake up one day and say, 00:21:27.599 --> 00:21:29.259 I'm going to launch a business. You always had 00:21:29.259 --> 00:21:31.900 some type of role model on the shipping. So what 00:21:31.900 --> 00:21:34.680 was this role model? I mean, there have been 00:21:34.680 --> 00:21:37.539 various role models in my life at different stages. 00:21:37.759 --> 00:21:41.960 I mean, you know, true, albeit cliched, my father 00:21:41.960 --> 00:21:45.460 was a, was a, was, was a self -starter. Um, and, 00:21:45.579 --> 00:21:49.509 um, and was very kind of entrepreneurial in that 00:21:49.509 --> 00:21:52.710 respect. So I think there's definitely elements 00:21:52.710 --> 00:21:55.890 of that there. I think, but also there was a 00:21:55.890 --> 00:22:00.190 sort of personal conviction of like, I believe 00:22:00.190 --> 00:22:02.890 we are, there may be a higher power, but we're 00:22:02.890 --> 00:22:06.410 on this earth once and we need to make sure that 00:22:06.410 --> 00:22:08.930 we really make a difference. And I don't want 00:22:08.930 --> 00:22:10.670 to waste the day and I don't want to waste a 00:22:10.670 --> 00:22:13.920 minute. And if that means forging something new, 00:22:14.180 --> 00:22:16.119 creating a new business, creating something, 00:22:16.339 --> 00:22:18.859 adding value, changing the landscape in some 00:22:18.859 --> 00:22:23.279 form or another. That is, for me, empowering. 00:22:23.680 --> 00:22:27.319 It's quite powerful. When you're in sales, you 00:22:27.319 --> 00:22:30.279 often come across people who end up, I'm not 00:22:30.279 --> 00:22:32.839 going to say making you lose your time, but they 00:22:32.839 --> 00:22:35.680 end up just falling. How do you manage that? 00:22:35.680 --> 00:22:37.619 How do you manage that anxiety of waiting for 00:22:37.619 --> 00:22:39.660 someone to say yes or no? And like, why don't 00:22:39.660 --> 00:22:41.339 you just give me a reply? I need this reply for, 00:22:41.740 --> 00:22:46.170 you know, So my sales approach has always shifted. 00:22:46.390 --> 00:22:48.210 It's been very fluid and dependent, obviously, 00:22:48.289 --> 00:22:50.890 what I'm selling. But the skillsets are very 00:22:50.890 --> 00:22:54.789 transferable. And there's a lot of commercial 00:22:54.789 --> 00:22:57.710 crossover over what I've actually done, believe 00:22:57.710 --> 00:22:59.869 it or not. Again, it comes back to that value 00:22:59.869 --> 00:23:02.750 adds, speed to value. I think making sure that 00:23:02.750 --> 00:23:06.250 you are approaching it in a way that you need 00:23:06.250 --> 00:23:09.490 to understand what it is the buyer in any respect 00:23:09.490 --> 00:23:13.440 is. how they operate. What's their rhythm? What's 00:23:13.440 --> 00:23:17.400 their working rhythm? Don't go chasing people 00:23:17.400 --> 00:23:20.240 on a Monday morning. That's for sure. Make sure 00:23:20.240 --> 00:23:24.099 your timing is on point. Make sure that where 00:23:24.099 --> 00:23:27.099 you structure, whether it's an email or nowadays, 00:23:27.440 --> 00:23:30.420 frankly, people selling over new tools like Loom 00:23:30.420 --> 00:23:33.740 videos and things like that. I think that we... 00:23:33.759 --> 00:23:35.940 We're selling in different ways and you're not, 00:23:36.160 --> 00:23:38.119 you're, I mean, you know, on one side you're 00:23:38.119 --> 00:23:40.779 selling, you're also, remember, you've got to 00:23:40.779 --> 00:23:42.619 talk, you've got to just talk to the benefits. 00:23:43.160 --> 00:23:45.440 You know, you've got to, you know, the classics, 00:23:45.720 --> 00:23:49.440 the feature advantage benefit, try to make sure 00:23:49.440 --> 00:23:51.619 that you're always talking to the benefits. You're 00:23:51.619 --> 00:23:54.500 not, you're not, you know, trying to get away, 00:23:54.599 --> 00:23:56.000 you're trying to get away from that. Just sort 00:23:56.000 --> 00:23:57.880 of, you're selling a feature, you're selling, 00:23:59.019 --> 00:24:02.539 selling, you know, a life -changing experience 00:24:02.539 --> 00:24:04.940 a life -changing moment whatever it might be 00:24:04.940 --> 00:24:07.160 it's going to it's going to deliver real value 00:24:07.160 --> 00:24:10.819 and also don't don't stop knocking either don't 00:24:10.819 --> 00:24:13.240 take the foot off the accelerator either i mean 00:24:13.240 --> 00:24:16.220 strike well the iron's hot people are keen you 00:24:16.220 --> 00:24:18.099 know people can get distracted also very easily 00:24:18.099 --> 00:24:21.880 too so make sure you you you don't let time get 00:24:21.880 --> 00:24:24.500 in the way of good deal so from the knowledge 00:24:24.500 --> 00:24:26.640 you have right now what advice would you give 00:24:26.640 --> 00:24:29.680 yourself 10 years from what you've learned in 00:24:29.680 --> 00:24:32.920 your journey What would you tell yourself? I 00:24:32.920 --> 00:24:34.859 would, it's a good question. What would I do? 00:24:36.819 --> 00:24:40.619 Just get going. Just keep getting moving. Because 00:24:40.619 --> 00:24:43.440 often, and I've done this in the past, I did 00:24:43.440 --> 00:24:46.400 this very recently in fact, I spent a long time 00:24:46.400 --> 00:24:51.539 spending hours, hours, days in fact, strategizing 00:24:51.539 --> 00:24:54.480 and planning the perfect, you know, doing all 00:24:54.480 --> 00:24:56.940 the market research and doing all the consumer 00:24:56.940 --> 00:25:00.039 and company research and finding my, you know, 00:25:01.099 --> 00:25:05.460 ICP and owning it on that. But really it was 00:25:05.460 --> 00:25:09.220 all sort of theoretical because I just, you know, 00:25:09.259 --> 00:25:11.539 until I got going and still I started, started 00:25:11.539 --> 00:25:14.000 trading and I just got my first few customers. 00:25:15.039 --> 00:25:17.700 Then so much became clearer. I mean, so much 00:25:17.700 --> 00:25:20.440 to the extent that in fact, now I remember about 00:25:20.440 --> 00:25:22.779 three months ago, just about before we got Passion 00:25:22.779 --> 00:25:26.279 Lab really moving, I said to a good friend of 00:25:26.279 --> 00:25:29.920 mine, And what do you think the next step is? 00:25:30.039 --> 00:25:32.259 You need to sit down. To make it a classic error, 00:25:32.440 --> 00:25:35.319 you're trying to steer a parked car. Just get 00:25:35.319 --> 00:25:39.839 going and you'll be able to move and pivot and 00:25:39.839 --> 00:25:42.019 all the rest of it. And that's definitely been 00:25:42.019 --> 00:25:47.180 true. So don't think too hard. Just do get going 00:25:47.180 --> 00:25:50.019 and a lot will become clear. Now I've noticed 00:25:50.019 --> 00:25:54.980 on your journey, you went in and out of university. 00:25:55.210 --> 00:25:58.130 How important do you think education is for an 00:25:58.130 --> 00:26:02.009 entrepreneur overall? So I think it gives you 00:26:02.009 --> 00:26:04.970 a great question that actually, because I would 00:26:04.970 --> 00:26:08.150 say one thing I probably would have done possibly 00:26:08.150 --> 00:26:12.390 differently is, you know, after my bachelor's 00:26:12.390 --> 00:26:14.569 gone on and done something, you know, a little 00:26:14.569 --> 00:26:16.769 bit more kind of concrete straight afterwards, 00:26:16.789 --> 00:26:18.829 as it was, I went straight into kind of business. 00:26:20.210 --> 00:26:23.390 I intentionally made that decision at the end 00:26:23.390 --> 00:26:28.569 of when I left Oto. to go and really cement some 00:26:28.569 --> 00:26:31.730 of my form of education, give myself some of 00:26:31.730 --> 00:26:35.130 that structure that I'd been missing. I considered 00:26:35.130 --> 00:26:38.269 an MBA to make the mud numbers work. And frankly, 00:26:38.509 --> 00:26:40.650 it's been the last 10 years doing a life MBA. 00:26:41.250 --> 00:26:44.849 So I was, I wanted to just basically identify 00:26:44.849 --> 00:26:48.250 the gaps in my knowledge and try and plug them. 00:26:48.430 --> 00:26:50.630 And that's why these actually, these three months, 00:26:51.150 --> 00:26:53.390 executive manager programs, nanodegrees, people 00:26:53.390 --> 00:26:55.720 call them different things. are actually really 00:26:55.720 --> 00:26:59.619 useful because if you know yourself best, you 00:26:59.619 --> 00:27:01.920 could take kind of a holistic view of where, 00:27:01.920 --> 00:27:05.000 you know, where my knowledge is in a specific 00:27:05.000 --> 00:27:08.119 area. And then there are, there's invariably 00:27:08.119 --> 00:27:10.660 a course out there, whether it's a Coursera course 00:27:10.660 --> 00:27:13.279 or there's something online or there's an university 00:27:13.279 --> 00:27:14.859 degree or something like that, that you can go 00:27:14.859 --> 00:27:16.940 to actually hone in and unplug that. And it gives 00:27:16.940 --> 00:27:20.180 you just that structure of critical thought, 00:27:20.240 --> 00:27:23.079 which you don't often necessarily always get. 00:27:23.230 --> 00:27:25.430 when you were just in fast -paced, you know, 00:27:25.589 --> 00:27:28.670 business mode. How do you deal with the fine 00:27:28.670 --> 00:27:32.009 balance between being confident to launch a business, 00:27:32.130 --> 00:27:34.430 but then not being too arrogant to listen to 00:27:34.430 --> 00:27:36.650 what people are saying and actually take that 00:27:36.650 --> 00:27:38.930 on board and start with the fee? How do you manage 00:27:38.930 --> 00:27:41.950 that balance? That's a good, again, good question. 00:27:42.309 --> 00:27:44.329 Make sure you do, you know, you're listening 00:27:44.329 --> 00:27:50.009 to the bank, you listen to others and know that 00:27:50.009 --> 00:27:52.450 you don't always know best. Yeah, I don't want 00:27:52.450 --> 00:27:56.099 to Contradict what I said earlier about having 00:27:56.099 --> 00:27:58.380 strong conviction. I think that's still important. 00:27:58.720 --> 00:28:00.400 Um, and making, you know, making sure that, you 00:28:00.400 --> 00:28:03.619 know, when all's said and done, whenever decision 00:28:03.619 --> 00:28:06.839 you take, you back yourself. But to reach that 00:28:06.839 --> 00:28:10.759 decision, definitely lean into your customer 00:28:10.759 --> 00:28:13.700 feedback, lean into your, you know, investors 00:28:13.700 --> 00:28:16.460 feedback. Some of these people, some of the people 00:28:16.460 --> 00:28:19.859 on my cap table have got 40, 50 years of experience 00:28:19.859 --> 00:28:22.140 under their belt. You know, I don't want to be 00:28:22.140 --> 00:28:24.160 naive just to say that, you know, they don't 00:28:24.160 --> 00:28:25.599 know what they're talking about. I'll always 00:28:25.599 --> 00:28:29.420 lean, lean into the great minds. Um, at what 00:28:29.420 --> 00:28:31.640 point do you just stand up and, you know, push 00:28:31.640 --> 00:28:34.700 forward? Was it hard getting investment for, 00:28:34.720 --> 00:28:37.960 for your latest business? Not so much, not for 00:28:37.960 --> 00:28:40.000 this. I mean, I didn't raise a huge amount of 00:28:40.000 --> 00:28:42.059 the grand scheme of things. I needed just enough 00:28:42.059 --> 00:28:45.420 to get the engine moving and sort of fuel priming 00:28:45.420 --> 00:28:48.220 the pump, so to speak. So I, um, I raised a sort 00:28:48.220 --> 00:28:50.529 of. you know, friends and family around. And 00:28:50.529 --> 00:28:52.670 you know, at that stage when you're kind of free 00:28:52.670 --> 00:28:55.849 revenue, they're ultimately backing you. You 00:28:55.849 --> 00:28:58.390 know, you've got the best pitch deck and idea 00:28:58.390 --> 00:29:03.089 in the world, but really you're backing me. So 00:29:03.089 --> 00:29:05.630 in that sense, it's flattering, but it's also 00:29:05.630 --> 00:29:08.730 quite pressurizing. And so we raised the cash 00:29:08.730 --> 00:29:12.170 and I think for any successive funding rounds, 00:29:12.670 --> 00:29:16.910 things will look a lot more different. But there's 00:29:16.910 --> 00:29:18.809 capital out there. You know, there is capital 00:29:18.809 --> 00:29:21.109 out there for the right product and right idea. 00:29:21.369 --> 00:29:23.269 Um, and as long as it's packaged up in the right 00:29:23.269 --> 00:29:25.809 way and it's got a great team around you and 00:29:25.809 --> 00:29:28.970 a strong, you know, find a market fit, product 00:29:28.970 --> 00:29:31.930 market fit, et cetera, then you've, you're onto 00:29:31.930 --> 00:29:35.269 something. There's, you know, so for anyone raising 00:29:35.269 --> 00:29:37.670 them, you have a great product market fit, a 00:29:37.670 --> 00:29:40.650 great team. And then they're being, they're good 00:29:40.650 --> 00:29:45.150 to be invested. To an extent. Yeah. I mean, you've 00:29:45.150 --> 00:29:49.519 got to, again, like, selling anything. It's resilience 00:29:49.519 --> 00:29:51.539 there to keep knocking, keep looking in the right 00:29:51.539 --> 00:29:53.720 places, keep looking under every single rock. 00:29:54.240 --> 00:29:57.319 But there's cash out there for the right idea 00:29:57.319 --> 00:30:00.680 and obviously around the world of AI, people 00:30:00.680 --> 00:30:04.380 are bending over backwards. The only thing to 00:30:04.380 --> 00:30:08.160 add to that is that the UK again, and maybe not 00:30:08.160 --> 00:30:10.599 to the same extent in the US in terms of people's 00:30:10.599 --> 00:30:12.700 risk appetite, but there are some good schemes 00:30:12.700 --> 00:30:15.109 in place and people will be aware of like the 00:30:15.109 --> 00:30:18.509 SCIS and EIS schemes to help encourage investors. 00:30:19.170 --> 00:30:21.289 And I think, you know, we, and as well as the 00:30:21.289 --> 00:30:23.829 grants that are out there, like Innovate, which 00:30:23.829 --> 00:30:25.809 I've had experience with in the past, you know, 00:30:25.809 --> 00:30:29.430 we, we have got a, there is a, there are, there 00:30:29.430 --> 00:30:31.849 are other areas and ways of raising money and 00:30:31.849 --> 00:30:34.990 it's not just empty finance sources, you know, 00:30:35.450 --> 00:30:37.950 you know, Virgin Startup Club and things like 00:30:37.950 --> 00:30:39.450 that. They're all, they're all very, they're 00:30:39.450 --> 00:30:42.349 all very helpful for just getting things off 00:30:42.349 --> 00:30:46.410 the ground. So what does the future look like 00:30:46.410 --> 00:30:51.230 for you? It looks like bedding and some really 00:30:51.230 --> 00:30:53.289 in those strong foundations, as I mentioned, 00:30:53.569 --> 00:30:57.730 for the passion lab, making sure that we've got 00:30:57.730 --> 00:31:02.910 a really strong base in which to grow from 2025. 00:31:03.470 --> 00:31:07.109 And we are at the moment a lab building different 00:31:07.109 --> 00:31:10.960 businesses for different problems. But gradually 00:31:10.960 --> 00:31:14.079 I will want to focus in on one or two core areas 00:31:14.079 --> 00:31:17.079 and who knows in the future, productize into 00:31:17.079 --> 00:31:19.740 those areas to really kind of like generate some 00:31:19.740 --> 00:31:23.220 serious scale into the future. But yeah, I think, 00:31:23.220 --> 00:31:26.519 I think every day is a school day and every day 00:31:26.519 --> 00:31:28.599 is a new day. So we just got to give it a, give 00:31:28.599 --> 00:31:30.640 it our best shot and see which way we take, which 00:31:30.640 --> 00:31:33.319 way we're headed. Tommy, if people want to reach 00:31:33.319 --> 00:31:35.059 out to you, how can you do so? They can reach 00:31:35.059 --> 00:31:37.230 out to me on LinkedIn. That would be the best 00:31:37.230 --> 00:31:40.390 bet. I'm increasingly vocal on LinkedIn and I 00:31:40.390 --> 00:31:43.430 think it's a great platform. So yeah, please, 00:31:43.490 --> 00:31:47.309 please send me a DM or connect with me on LinkedIn. 00:31:47.549 --> 00:31:50.529 Tom Lorimer, you'll see. Building cutting edge 00:31:50.529 --> 00:31:53.430 AI tools and solutions is what my title said. 00:31:54.289 --> 00:31:56.910 I'll read into that. Tom, thank you so much for 00:31:56.910 --> 00:31:58.809 your time. I really appreciate it. Simon, I'm 00:31:58.809 --> 00:32:01.750 sick. Not at all. Thank you, Ricardo. Take care. 00:32:02.029 --> 00:32:04.450 The podcast is also sponsored by Notion .so. 00:32:04.640 --> 00:32:07.019 Notion is offering six months for free for new 00:32:07.019 --> 00:32:09.660 users. Make sure you check out our website, the 00:32:09.660 --> 00:32:12.039 startupevents .co .uk to read in the software. 00:32:12.400 --> 00:32:15.279 This podcast is also sponsored by startupnetworks 00:32:15.279 --> 00:32:18.880 .co .uk. Startup Networks, it's an online forum 00:32:18.880 --> 00:32:20.880 where you can find all the resources you need 00:32:20.880 --> 00:32:23.400 to run your startup, from grants to investors 00:32:23.400 --> 00:32:25.559 to tips and tricks on how to be successful in 00:32:25.559 --> 00:32:28.339 your startup. This podcast is also sponsored 00:32:28.339 --> 00:32:31.900 by Odev Tech. 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