WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.859 Welcome to the Innovation Conversation, a podcast 00:00:02.859 --> 00:00:05.419 about innovators, both in business and real life. 00:00:05.879 --> 00:00:08.380 Hosted by myself, Ricardo Rescual and Harry McCona. 00:00:08.480 --> 00:00:11.699 This podcast is also sponsored by ODEV Tech. 00:00:12.439 --> 00:00:14.640 ODEV Tech is your premier software development 00:00:14.640 --> 00:00:18.019 partner. Make sure you check them out at odev 00:00:18.019 --> 00:00:22.399 .tech. The podcast is also sponsored by Notion 00:00:22.399 --> 00:00:25.359 .so. Notion is offering six months for free for 00:00:25.359 --> 00:00:27.839 new users. Make sure you check out our website, 00:00:28.039 --> 00:00:30.600 thestoreofevents .co .uk to read in the software. 00:00:31.920 --> 00:00:34.140 Hi, and welcome to another episode of the Innovation 00:00:34.140 --> 00:00:38.140 Conversation. Today we are joined by Daria Ljotović. 00:00:38.520 --> 00:00:41.560 Close enough? Yeah, very good, very well. Daria, 00:00:41.640 --> 00:00:44.000 welcome to the podcast. Thank you, happy to be 00:00:44.000 --> 00:00:46.520 here. Daria, would you like to introduce yourself 00:00:46.520 --> 00:00:50.520 to the audience? Yeah, my name is Daria. I'm 00:00:50.520 --> 00:00:54.990 originally from Belarus and I moved away 10 years 00:00:54.990 --> 00:00:58.369 ago, and currently I live in Amsterdam. My professional 00:00:58.369 --> 00:01:02.450 experience was always about the venture capital 00:01:02.450 --> 00:01:06.890 side of building a startup. And yeah, I've been 00:01:06.890 --> 00:01:09.310 in the startup support services. I've been in 00:01:09.310 --> 00:01:15.189 accelerators. Now currently I'm working at kind 00:01:15.189 --> 00:01:17.689 of an investment firm, as we call it, but we 00:01:17.689 --> 00:01:20.269 have an accelerator and follow -on fund. So, 00:01:20.370 --> 00:01:23.189 and I'm very, very passionate about this industry. 00:01:23.480 --> 00:01:26.280 Also, as being a woman, as being an immigrant, 00:01:26.819 --> 00:01:30.219 I think there is a lot venture capital can do 00:01:30.219 --> 00:01:35.359 to kind of create innovations using also different 00:01:35.359 --> 00:01:38.079 types of backgrounds and different people as 00:01:38.079 --> 00:01:40.819 well. So how was that transition like? Because 00:01:40.819 --> 00:01:43.879 moving to Belarus, to the Netherlands, I guess 00:01:43.879 --> 00:01:47.129 it must have been quite hard. Yeah, it's kind 00:01:47.129 --> 00:01:50.150 of worse actually, true. I did my bachelor in 00:01:50.150 --> 00:01:53.950 Belarus and I was very... I got involved in kind 00:01:53.950 --> 00:01:56.310 of in a movement called Global Entrepreneurship 00:01:56.310 --> 00:01:58.969 Week. It was all about startups and entrepreneurship 00:01:58.969 --> 00:02:03.609 innovations and through that I got in touch with 00:02:03.609 --> 00:02:06.530 the startup ecosystem in Belarus and I was working 00:02:06.530 --> 00:02:08.569 a little bit in there also while still being 00:02:08.569 --> 00:02:12.819 a student and then I understood... that in order 00:02:12.819 --> 00:02:16.180 to support Belarusian startup Go Global and actually 00:02:16.180 --> 00:02:19.539 enter a bigger market, I need to get this knowledge 00:02:19.539 --> 00:02:22.039 of a bigger market myself. So that's where the 00:02:22.039 --> 00:02:26.039 initial idea came from, that I wanted to get 00:02:26.039 --> 00:02:28.560 the European experience, I want to maybe get 00:02:28.560 --> 00:02:31.099 a degree, so I started to explore the options 00:02:31.099 --> 00:02:35.000 how I can get that experience, and then I found 00:02:35.000 --> 00:02:38.159 the university in the Netherlands. It was like 00:02:38.159 --> 00:02:41.740 a kind of an MBA program that was focused on 00:02:41.740 --> 00:02:43.960 entrepreneurship and international business. 00:02:44.500 --> 00:02:47.659 So I got the scholarship for that program, but 00:02:47.659 --> 00:02:50.379 accepted. So that's why, or that's how I decided 00:02:50.379 --> 00:02:54.039 to move. But still, and it was, I think I would 00:02:54.039 --> 00:02:57.919 consider it as a pretty kind of flaky and comfortable 00:02:57.919 --> 00:03:00.159 environment to move in where I had scholarship, 00:03:00.340 --> 00:03:02.479 I had university. It was quite easy to move when 00:03:02.479 --> 00:03:05.080 you have like university friends. and so on but 00:03:05.080 --> 00:03:08.659 it was still quite hard also cultural wise language 00:03:08.659 --> 00:03:11.400 wise for me it was also difficult in the beginning 00:03:11.400 --> 00:03:14.539 and then my idea was that i will like study i 00:03:14.539 --> 00:03:17.419 will get some network some understanding how 00:03:17.419 --> 00:03:19.680 the how everything works and then i will go back 00:03:19.680 --> 00:03:22.439 and bring it to belarus but it never happened 00:03:22.439 --> 00:03:25.360 i stayed first i stayed because i want to get 00:03:25.360 --> 00:03:28.409 more and more experience But then the whole geopolitical 00:03:28.409 --> 00:03:32.069 situation was getting worse and worse. And I 00:03:32.069 --> 00:03:36.330 understood that I don't want to support the government 00:03:36.330 --> 00:03:37.990 in there, I don't want to support the politics 00:03:37.990 --> 00:03:42.229 there, and I would better stay in the Netherlands. 00:03:43.629 --> 00:03:45.909 Yeah, so that was the tradition. But overall, 00:03:46.110 --> 00:03:51.569 I would also see... I saw immediately that coming 00:03:51.569 --> 00:03:54.710 from kind of Eastern Europe, we have a little 00:03:54.710 --> 00:03:58.759 bit of a different... work mentality and the 00:03:58.759 --> 00:04:01.520 drive to work so it was quite easy for me actually 00:04:01.520 --> 00:04:06.180 to study because I saw that I couldn't just like 00:04:06.180 --> 00:04:08.080 I don't take more hours to study and for me it 00:04:08.080 --> 00:04:10.439 was normal and then when I started to work I 00:04:10.439 --> 00:04:14.139 also saw that I could do more and I was capable 00:04:14.139 --> 00:04:18.160 of doing more but I think it was my kind of upbringing 00:04:18.160 --> 00:04:22.180 that we have to work hard and a lot. So in the 00:04:22.180 --> 00:04:25.100 beginning, it was quite easy to have my foot 00:04:25.100 --> 00:04:28.459 in the door because I knew that I can do a lot 00:04:28.459 --> 00:04:30.899 and I can work hard. So from that perspective, 00:04:31.519 --> 00:04:33.839 it was good, but yeah, it brought some other 00:04:33.839 --> 00:04:37.480 challenges later on. I was just about to ask, 00:04:37.660 --> 00:04:39.720 like, what were the main differences between 00:04:39.720 --> 00:04:42.199 Belarus and the Netherlands in terms of the work 00:04:42.199 --> 00:04:45.019 mentality and stuff? Yeah, I think in other words, 00:04:45.339 --> 00:04:47.079 in the very beginning it was very difficult for 00:04:47.079 --> 00:04:50.500 me to accept that people have life. So it's funny. 00:04:50.740 --> 00:04:53.899 Now when I reflect, I really respect the Dutch 00:04:53.899 --> 00:04:56.459 culture. I really respect, admire. But in the 00:04:56.459 --> 00:04:59.759 very beginning, when people would look at the 00:04:59.759 --> 00:05:01.839 watch and say, yeah, five o 'clock, I need to 00:05:01.839 --> 00:05:03.959 go home. I was like, yeah, how? But it's only 00:05:03.959 --> 00:05:06.000 five and we still have a lot of work to do. How 00:05:06.000 --> 00:05:09.379 can you go home? And I could not understand that. 00:05:09.689 --> 00:05:12.689 I also couldn't understand why people would like... 00:05:12.689 --> 00:05:15.449 I was also quite honest, I didn't have family, 00:05:15.930 --> 00:05:18.949 but people would prioritize going back to their 00:05:18.949 --> 00:05:21.889 partners or their families versus like going 00:05:21.889 --> 00:05:25.110 to a work event or going to like a work trip. 00:05:25.110 --> 00:05:27.589 For me, it was like, wow, it's exciting. It's 00:05:27.589 --> 00:05:30.050 like it's work. We can achieve so much more if 00:05:30.050 --> 00:05:34.029 we do more. The Dutch culture is way more oriented 00:05:34.029 --> 00:05:37.110 on the work -life balance, which I now respect. 00:05:37.350 --> 00:05:40.009 But back then, it was difficult to accept. that's 00:05:40.009 --> 00:05:43.970 one part and the second part was also difficult 00:05:43.970 --> 00:05:47.709 to adjust to the planning ahead because in the 00:05:47.709 --> 00:05:51.689 dutch culture yeah you need to plan ahead also 00:05:51.689 --> 00:05:54.370 with your friends with everyone even like super 00:05:54.370 --> 00:05:58.110 close people but like you plan a date two weeks 00:05:58.110 --> 00:06:01.389 in advance you play you plan a dinner with your 00:06:01.389 --> 00:06:03.610 friends like a month in advance otherwise all 00:06:03.610 --> 00:06:06.209 the calendars are ready pre -booked and work 00:06:06.209 --> 00:06:08.350 -wise it was also if I wanted to have a colleague 00:06:08.350 --> 00:06:11.790 or time with a colleague I needed to plan ahead. 00:06:11.930 --> 00:06:14.769 I needed to think okay like in three days I will 00:06:14.769 --> 00:06:16.970 have these questions now I need to plan this 00:06:16.970 --> 00:06:20.949 meeting now. It was difficult also to adjust 00:06:20.949 --> 00:06:23.089 because if I had a question I wanted to have 00:06:23.089 --> 00:06:25.889 an answer right away but very often it was not 00:06:25.889 --> 00:06:29.329 possible. and in the beginning it was very annoying 00:06:29.329 --> 00:06:33.430 but it also taught me quite a lot in terms of 00:06:33.430 --> 00:06:38.050 preparation and planning and structure and so 00:06:38.050 --> 00:06:42.290 it gave a different perspective of how to use 00:06:42.290 --> 00:06:46.449 everyone's time efficiently so that was yeah 00:06:46.449 --> 00:06:49.430 it was a very nice learning but in the beginning 00:06:49.430 --> 00:06:52.050 I remember I was really really annoyed but on 00:06:52.050 --> 00:06:54.410 the other hand I could also see that because 00:06:54.410 --> 00:06:58.379 I was Like right away when we're flexible and 00:06:58.379 --> 00:07:04.819 I could be way more Kind of Proactive and more 00:07:04.819 --> 00:07:08.379 independent. So that brought me the career growth 00:07:08.379 --> 00:07:12.860 opportunities quite fast When did you move into 00:07:12.860 --> 00:07:15.000 the the mental health space in the VC world? 00:07:15.319 --> 00:07:18.860 Yeah, so right after the university in the Netherlands, 00:07:19.240 --> 00:07:23.199 I went to work for a Dutch accelerator. It was 00:07:23.199 --> 00:07:25.060 just in the beginning, it was an accelerator 00:07:25.060 --> 00:07:28.220 company. And there, I actually worked there for 00:07:28.220 --> 00:07:31.860 seven years. And while also my time there, we've 00:07:31.860 --> 00:07:34.680 transitioned a company from being just an accelerator 00:07:34.680 --> 00:07:39.740 to a VC fund. And we've raised three funds and 00:07:39.740 --> 00:07:43.500 it was about It was more about like impact overall, 00:07:43.720 --> 00:07:47.680 it was health, food and emerging tech. But in 00:07:47.680 --> 00:07:50.639 that space, I started to understand the importance 00:07:50.639 --> 00:07:55.519 of making something good for this world, or at 00:07:55.519 --> 00:07:58.060 least not harm it. That's why I understood, okay, 00:07:58.060 --> 00:08:04.319 I like the idea of using capital for good. I 00:08:04.319 --> 00:08:07.180 understood the kind of the rules of the game 00:08:07.180 --> 00:08:09.899 that to be in a VC, you need to make a rich man 00:08:09.899 --> 00:08:13.420 richer. But I also understood that I want to 00:08:13.420 --> 00:08:16.819 do it in a way that will make an impact on the 00:08:16.819 --> 00:08:19.339 startups, for example, we would invest this money 00:08:19.339 --> 00:08:26.490 into. Yeah, so I was in that company and I've 00:08:26.490 --> 00:08:29.949 changed also my roles quite a lot, but in the 00:08:29.949 --> 00:08:32.409 end, I was responsible for the setting up the 00:08:32.409 --> 00:08:36.509 backend of the company and still providing the 00:08:36.509 --> 00:08:39.610 accelerator services to the startups. And also, 00:08:39.909 --> 00:08:46.029 I was playing a lot with how or what kind of 00:08:46.029 --> 00:08:49.049 support services startups really need to grow. 00:08:49.549 --> 00:08:52.250 And in that company, we focused a lot on the 00:08:52.250 --> 00:08:55.049 metrics and business growth and like sales and 00:08:55.049 --> 00:08:57.750 like pushing, pushing, pushing. And I also saw 00:08:57.750 --> 00:09:01.830 that very often it would bring some results, 00:09:01.830 --> 00:09:04.330 but also very often it will come with a cost. 00:09:05.149 --> 00:09:08.269 Like startups founders were getting divorced 00:09:08.269 --> 00:09:10.669 because we could observe them like for five plus 00:09:10.669 --> 00:09:12.750 years. So we could see that they would struggle 00:09:12.750 --> 00:09:16.429 with their friendship, their relationship, romantic 00:09:16.429 --> 00:09:22.149 life, house. They might get successful, they 00:09:22.149 --> 00:09:25.509 might bring the returns, but it would bring them 00:09:25.509 --> 00:09:28.649 some damage, I would say. And then I started 00:09:28.649 --> 00:09:31.850 to question, okay, where the boundary is. Both 00:09:31.850 --> 00:09:35.289 worlds, pure making money is important, health 00:09:35.289 --> 00:09:38.570 is important, and how to merge it. And then after 00:09:38.570 --> 00:09:43.509 that company, I moved to another, but basically... 00:09:43.600 --> 00:09:45.919 The journey was not as straightforward, but currently 00:09:45.919 --> 00:09:49.460 I'm at an investment company that I started very 00:09:49.460 --> 00:09:52.259 early on. So there was the person who, his name 00:09:52.259 --> 00:09:54.899 is Eugene, he has a few successful businesses 00:09:54.899 --> 00:09:58.600 and he wanted to reinvest this money back into 00:09:58.600 --> 00:10:01.519 the startup world and support the founders. And 00:10:01.519 --> 00:10:04.539 he also had this vision in his head that he wanted 00:10:04.539 --> 00:10:09.299 to support impact -driven founders. So, and that 00:10:09.299 --> 00:10:12.190 was the stage where I joined, where someone with 00:10:12.190 --> 00:10:17.049 finance or with capital had an idea and I joined 00:10:17.049 --> 00:10:19.350 in to execute on this idea that, okay, let's 00:10:19.350 --> 00:10:21.710 build a company that will invest in startups. 00:10:22.769 --> 00:10:25.389 And then we were talking a lot and brainstorming 00:10:25.389 --> 00:10:29.710 and doing some market research in terms of what 00:10:29.710 --> 00:10:32.389 are the areas we want to invest in and what would 00:10:32.389 --> 00:10:36.889 be the added value from our side. And we both 00:10:36.889 --> 00:10:40.340 quite immediately agree that we want to make 00:10:40.340 --> 00:10:42.500 sure the startups support it not only on the 00:10:42.500 --> 00:10:45.820 business side but on the mental health side because 00:10:45.820 --> 00:10:48.700 he has been successful founder for a few times 00:10:48.700 --> 00:10:51.320 he also went through a lot of personal changes 00:10:51.320 --> 00:10:54.879 and a lot of personal troubles and kind of while 00:10:54.879 --> 00:10:59.779 surrounded by people who also believe that business 00:10:59.779 --> 00:11:03.019 is not only struggle I understood that this is 00:11:03.019 --> 00:11:06.000 what I also want to do and what it's basically 00:11:06.000 --> 00:11:10.279 what I can also change, maybe it sounds very 00:11:10.279 --> 00:11:13.000 narcissistic, but that's what I also can change 00:11:13.000 --> 00:11:15.460 in the industry a little bit is to bring this 00:11:15.460 --> 00:11:18.419 awareness that investors' responsibility is not 00:11:18.419 --> 00:11:22.059 only to push the startups to grow, but also to 00:11:22.059 --> 00:11:24.399 provide the space where startups are not burning 00:11:24.399 --> 00:11:29.720 out and sacrificing their lives for profits or 00:11:29.720 --> 00:11:33.440 for investor profit or rich people profit basically. 00:11:33.879 --> 00:11:35.639 how do you manage that because obviously being 00:11:35.639 --> 00:11:37.679 a startup it has a lot of stress it has a lot 00:11:37.679 --> 00:11:40.899 of tension yeah but also from a VC perspective 00:11:40.899 --> 00:11:43.340 the stress is always will the VC be happy with 00:11:43.340 --> 00:11:45.919 my quarterly results exactly i guess with you 00:11:45.919 --> 00:11:47.559 guys it's slightly different it's okay we need 00:11:47.559 --> 00:11:49.559 to be happy with the financials but we also need 00:11:49.559 --> 00:11:51.460 to be happy with you know your emotional well 00:11:51.460 --> 00:11:54.100 -being how does that work it's we're still figuring 00:11:54.100 --> 00:11:58.799 that out to be honest so It's true and it's it's 00:11:58.799 --> 00:12:01.360 actually three levels. I think the founder house 00:12:01.360 --> 00:12:03.519 is one level and then the second level Yeah, 00:12:03.519 --> 00:12:06.879 the investors need to bring the returns to their 00:12:06.879 --> 00:12:09.720 little piece I would say and then the third level 00:12:09.720 --> 00:12:11.779 the investors also need to stay healthy in that 00:12:11.779 --> 00:12:14.659 process and we also don't talk about that part 00:12:14.659 --> 00:12:19.120 so for now and Currently at currently we are 00:12:19.120 --> 00:12:21.159 in a quite alike position that we don't have 00:12:21.159 --> 00:12:23.539 the little piece to report to so there is one 00:12:23.539 --> 00:12:27.190 level less But still we also have our own ambitions. 00:12:27.230 --> 00:12:32.090 So we also want to make some returns and make 00:12:32.090 --> 00:12:35.549 kind of money out of what we are doing. So the 00:12:35.549 --> 00:12:41.289 pressure of investing and getting some returns, 00:12:41.330 --> 00:12:43.809 we still have it and it also affects our mental 00:12:43.809 --> 00:12:46.730 health. So what we are doing now is that when 00:12:46.730 --> 00:12:49.750 we invest, well, when we make the investment 00:12:49.750 --> 00:12:52.409 decision, we always analyze not on the business 00:12:52.409 --> 00:12:55.590 side. but the startup's personality side and 00:12:55.590 --> 00:12:58.649 the openness to discuss such kind of things and 00:12:58.649 --> 00:13:02.769 the openness to work or openness to acknowledge 00:13:02.769 --> 00:13:05.529 that at one point of that time they might need 00:13:05.529 --> 00:13:10.250 some support with their kind of staying healthy 00:13:10.250 --> 00:13:14.809 attitude. So we do the personality test, we talk 00:13:14.809 --> 00:13:17.710 to the startups openly about that while they 00:13:17.710 --> 00:13:22.240 join. So we invest... Startups join first at 00:13:22.240 --> 00:13:24.919 accelerator program for three months We give 00:13:24.919 --> 00:13:27.059 a little bit of cash during that program and 00:13:27.059 --> 00:13:29.779 after the program we do a proper round where 00:13:29.779 --> 00:13:33.019 we give a bit more cash So throughout the accelerator 00:13:33.019 --> 00:13:36.340 program we build the program on three pillars 00:13:36.340 --> 00:13:40.740 I pillar so it's basically how I feel as a person 00:13:40.740 --> 00:13:43.899 as a founder as a human being then we pillar 00:13:44.240 --> 00:13:47.240 It's like how I as a founder feel myself around 00:13:47.240 --> 00:13:51.659 the peers around me, how I feel around investors 00:13:51.659 --> 00:13:54.720 or mentors or other people and how we as a team 00:13:54.720 --> 00:13:59.110 feel together. And the third level is EAT Pillar 00:13:59.110 --> 00:14:03.149 and EAT is their business side. Metrix is a hard 00:14:03.149 --> 00:14:06.649 core business. And we based on the three pillars, 00:14:06.909 --> 00:14:09.850 we build the program curriculum and we talk or 00:14:09.850 --> 00:14:12.529 have conversations to the founders always around 00:14:12.529 --> 00:14:16.419 the three pillars. So around, no, around... Each 00:14:16.419 --> 00:14:19.500 pillar is quite straightforward. We have the 00:14:19.500 --> 00:14:22.879 workshops, we have mentors, we have growth partners 00:14:22.879 --> 00:14:28.440 who set up goals, set up experiments, analyze 00:14:28.440 --> 00:14:31.379 these experiments, create hypotheses, and it's 00:14:31.379 --> 00:14:35.779 a very straightforward site. And I think it takes 00:14:35.779 --> 00:14:38.500 approximately 50 % of the curriculum. Then we 00:14:38.500 --> 00:14:41.539 go to the V pillar. It's a bit easier for startups 00:14:41.539 --> 00:14:45.139 to go into there than I, for example, pillar. 00:14:45.419 --> 00:14:48.120 So we pillar, we do the peer -to -peer sessions 00:14:48.120 --> 00:14:51.059 where we take ourselves out of accusation. We 00:14:51.059 --> 00:14:55.299 invite a professional kind of mediator slash 00:14:55.299 --> 00:15:00.159 coach slash therapist, but not really, but he 00:15:00.159 --> 00:15:02.659 doesn't have a therapist role there. It's more 00:15:02.659 --> 00:15:06.519 like a coach slash facilitator. And he facilitates 00:15:06.519 --> 00:15:11.039 group discussions around certain topic. And it's 00:15:11.039 --> 00:15:15.320 a lot. VC fund or as an investor, we promised 00:15:15.320 --> 00:15:18.440 and we keep this promise that we don't talk to 00:15:18.440 --> 00:15:20.879 the therapist about what's happening in the sessions. 00:15:21.340 --> 00:15:23.759 Basically, everything that's happening is confidential 00:15:23.759 --> 00:15:27.659 and we never know exactly what's happening. The 00:15:27.659 --> 00:15:30.279 only thing that we are allowed to know and we 00:15:30.279 --> 00:15:34.539 know is the topics. So we can then, the main 00:15:34.539 --> 00:15:37.659 topic that we discussed, so we can use these 00:15:37.659 --> 00:15:41.360 topics for building the program curriculum. or 00:15:41.360 --> 00:15:44.519 kind of to make the curriculum stronger. So usually 00:15:44.519 --> 00:15:47.779 what startups are discussing, very common topic 00:15:47.779 --> 00:15:51.080 is that they're afraid to sell and the fear of 00:15:51.080 --> 00:15:55.039 the fear always takes a lot of energy. And they're 00:15:55.039 --> 00:15:57.940 so afraid to go out, talk to the customers, to 00:15:57.940 --> 00:16:01.539 get the rejection. And they are burning out because 00:16:01.539 --> 00:16:04.480 they have, they're losing their energy in that 00:16:04.480 --> 00:16:06.580 fear because they still do it. They have to do 00:16:06.580 --> 00:16:10.539 it because we push them to do it. But the fear 00:16:10.539 --> 00:16:13.539 eats them out a lot. So they work together as 00:16:13.539 --> 00:16:17.179 a group on this fear of how to overcome this 00:16:17.179 --> 00:16:19.360 fear. And this, for example, one of the topics, 00:16:19.460 --> 00:16:22.559 the second topic could be another topic that 00:16:22.559 --> 00:16:24.799 pops up very often is how to manage a team as 00:16:24.799 --> 00:16:28.080 being a single founder. How to fire, how to hire, 00:16:28.360 --> 00:16:30.539 how to make the right decision, how to not to 00:16:30.539 --> 00:16:33.899 be afraid again. So again, we work a lot with 00:16:33.899 --> 00:16:38.539 fear. And what we see when people spoke speak 00:16:38.539 --> 00:16:41.860 out loud about their fear when they actually 00:16:41.860 --> 00:16:46.399 are allowed to put it out there and not to hide 00:16:46.399 --> 00:16:48.960 it that yeah well I'm super afraid to go out 00:16:48.960 --> 00:16:51.740 and to do like 20 custom interiors but I'm going 00:16:51.740 --> 00:16:55.379 still to do it. It usually for them gives some 00:16:55.379 --> 00:16:59.799 energy back and it becomes less difficult so 00:16:59.799 --> 00:17:03.039 we see even by talking about that it becomes 00:17:03.039 --> 00:17:05.420 easier for the startups to actually execute on 00:17:05.420 --> 00:17:09.220 that. And the third level it's eye tracks where 00:17:09.220 --> 00:17:11.180 we have actually we have therapists and coaches 00:17:11.180 --> 00:17:15.220 in the program who one -on -one work on some 00:17:15.220 --> 00:17:19.539 specific requests from the startups to yeah because 00:17:19.539 --> 00:17:22.700 some of things cannot not be discussed in a group 00:17:22.700 --> 00:17:27.059 sometimes it's too private but and here that's 00:17:27.059 --> 00:17:29.700 where the challenge comes for us now is we don't 00:17:29.700 --> 00:17:32.980 know how much we can push people to actually 00:17:32.980 --> 00:17:36.069 start talking to a coach or therapist versus, 00:17:36.390 --> 00:17:38.289 well, it should be a pool where they actually 00:17:38.289 --> 00:17:40.589 come to us and, hey, I want to discuss this and 00:17:40.589 --> 00:17:44.170 this. And this is where the ethical role of VC 00:17:44.170 --> 00:17:48.029 comes in. And we don't know yet what is the right 00:17:48.029 --> 00:17:50.430 answer here, like whose responsibility it is 00:17:50.430 --> 00:17:53.789 to bring the problem up and to push the problem 00:17:53.789 --> 00:17:57.910 to be resolved. Is it the startup side? Is it 00:17:57.910 --> 00:18:00.630 the investor side? For now, we decide that it's 00:18:00.630 --> 00:18:04.880 a startup side. we provide the tools and the 00:18:04.880 --> 00:18:09.200 kind of frameworks to work on it. The downside 00:18:09.200 --> 00:18:12.339 to that is that it's difficult for a startup 00:18:12.339 --> 00:18:14.940 to focus at the same time on growing the business 00:18:14.940 --> 00:18:18.599 and working on their mental health. Usually it's 00:18:18.599 --> 00:18:21.000 quite difficult to do in parallel. Usually they 00:18:21.000 --> 00:18:24.339 burn out and then focus on mental health and 00:18:24.339 --> 00:18:29.119 then go back to the business. understandable, 00:18:29.380 --> 00:18:32.059 it's very understandable, but yeah, how to put 00:18:32.059 --> 00:18:34.660 it together at the same time. This is something 00:18:34.660 --> 00:18:38.259 we're still figuring out now. It's quite fascinating 00:18:38.259 --> 00:18:40.380 what you're doing because every startup I talk 00:18:40.380 --> 00:18:43.240 to, or every founder I talk to, they always talk 00:18:43.240 --> 00:18:45.920 about their journey they're on, right? The beliefs 00:18:45.920 --> 00:18:47.680 that they had in the beginning are not the same 00:18:47.680 --> 00:18:49.279 beliefs they're going to have six months on the 00:18:49.279 --> 00:18:51.759 line or years on the line. And you know, there's 00:18:51.759 --> 00:18:53.859 a lot of doubt that happens along the way and 00:18:53.859 --> 00:18:56.920 you being able to provide them with mental health 00:18:56.920 --> 00:18:59.539 support and guidance and counseling that actually 00:18:59.539 --> 00:19:01.539 makes a huge huge difference because they don't 00:19:01.539 --> 00:19:03.319 need to fight that battle alone they actually 00:19:03.319 --> 00:19:06.059 have a support group right so i'm assuming the 00:19:06.059 --> 00:19:08.519 founders are quite happy in the process i mean 00:19:08.519 --> 00:19:11.000 what's been the feedback so far yeah so far it's 00:19:11.000 --> 00:19:15.299 so good i mean the the one main metric i'm proud 00:19:15.299 --> 00:19:19.019 of is all the startups recommend other startups 00:19:19.019 --> 00:19:22.039 to us. So they actually that our pipeline, our 00:19:22.039 --> 00:19:24.519 deal flow comes from the recommendation. And 00:19:24.519 --> 00:19:27.220 for me, it is at least at this stage of our business 00:19:27.220 --> 00:19:30.079 is the most important metric because we're still 00:19:30.079 --> 00:19:33.259 quite young, we're still building our deal flow. 00:19:33.420 --> 00:19:37.640 So they all are happy and satisfied. Of course, 00:19:37.700 --> 00:19:42.200 there is always things to improve and it's normal, 00:19:42.319 --> 00:19:45.180 but we also position ourselves as a kind of a 00:19:45.180 --> 00:19:49.079 lean company where we ask for feedback and we 00:19:49.079 --> 00:19:53.500 improve. Things we could for sure improve and 00:19:53.500 --> 00:19:56.400 other things around, yeah, helping start up to 00:19:56.400 --> 00:19:58.680 get access to market, to get more introductions 00:19:58.680 --> 00:20:01.619 to the relevant partners and so on. But providing 00:20:01.619 --> 00:20:06.339 this safe space to be vulnerable. and providing 00:20:06.339 --> 00:20:10.779 the safe space to try different things. That's 00:20:10.779 --> 00:20:15.400 been very kind of appreciated and valued by the 00:20:15.400 --> 00:20:19.140 startups. We also have some queer startup founders. 00:20:19.480 --> 00:20:21.599 We have startup founders with very difficult 00:20:21.599 --> 00:20:24.819 backgrounds. And what we also see is... For me 00:20:24.819 --> 00:20:27.539 it was like super strange to understand because 00:20:27.539 --> 00:20:30.059 I've never was deep in the topic but apparently 00:20:30.059 --> 00:20:31.859 queer founders it's also for them it's quite 00:20:31.859 --> 00:20:34.539 difficult to get fund funding and usually they 00:20:34.539 --> 00:20:37.180 go to also queer investors and there are very 00:20:37.180 --> 00:20:40.380 very few funds that focus on investing queer 00:20:40.380 --> 00:20:44.000 founders and for us when we kind of we just looked 00:20:44.000 --> 00:20:46.519 at the business and we liked it and that's okay 00:20:46.519 --> 00:20:50.200 but and also for us it was quite easy to get 00:20:50.200 --> 00:20:52.559 the personal connection with the founder right 00:20:52.559 --> 00:20:55.569 away. And then we talked about that afterwards 00:20:55.569 --> 00:20:58.809 and they've mentioned that it was difficult for 00:20:58.809 --> 00:21:05.269 them to open up, even like to kind of say that 00:21:05.269 --> 00:21:08.970 they're queer. For me, it was like, oh wow, it's 00:21:08.970 --> 00:21:12.829 like, without even noticing and doing it on purpose, 00:21:13.009 --> 00:21:15.809 we understood that we can also support the founders 00:21:15.809 --> 00:21:21.200 who are not necessarily. Accepted in the society 00:21:21.200 --> 00:21:23.839 yet even though sense of first century so it's 00:21:23.839 --> 00:21:27.420 weird But yeah, so this was quite positive. I 00:21:27.420 --> 00:21:29.319 was like when you mentioned about the values 00:21:29.319 --> 00:21:32.019 and the motivation One of the exercises we're 00:21:32.019 --> 00:21:34.039 always doing the very beginning for the founders 00:21:34.039 --> 00:21:36.000 And I would recommend actually to do it to all 00:21:36.000 --> 00:21:38.240 the founders like I mean everyone can do it at 00:21:38.240 --> 00:21:43.019 home but basically What we did we wrote a list 00:21:43.019 --> 00:21:48.700 of like 10 the most common motivations why startups 00:21:48.700 --> 00:21:50.900 are building a startup. It's like to make an 00:21:50.900 --> 00:21:56.000 impact, to earn money, to do something good to 00:21:56.000 --> 00:21:58.259 the world, to solve a problem. But there were 00:21:58.259 --> 00:22:03.420 also some motivations like to get the world's 00:22:03.420 --> 00:22:09.799 recognition, to kind of something that is usually 00:22:09.799 --> 00:22:12.640 considered as a wrong motivation, where you want 00:22:12.640 --> 00:22:15.789 to be like... you want to get love, or you want 00:22:15.789 --> 00:22:22.490 to get recognition. Basically something that 00:22:22.490 --> 00:22:27.069 is not very commonly talked in the society. And 00:22:27.069 --> 00:22:30.289 then we asked all the founders to pick up one 00:22:30.289 --> 00:22:32.859 motivation that they all think that they chose 00:22:32.859 --> 00:22:35.440 to build a startup with that motivation. And 00:22:35.440 --> 00:22:38.140 all of our startups are usually using the impact, 00:22:38.279 --> 00:22:40.839 making something good in this world and supporting 00:22:40.839 --> 00:22:43.420 people and building a solution for like a very 00:22:43.420 --> 00:22:46.660 big problem. So they choose this. This motivation 00:22:46.660 --> 00:22:49.640 is the first round and they have to pitch to 00:22:49.640 --> 00:22:55.720 their peers why kind of explain how that motivation 00:22:55.720 --> 00:22:58.480 impacted their decision to make a startup. And 00:22:58.480 --> 00:23:02.720 it usually comes okay, quite natural. quite comfortable, 00:23:02.720 --> 00:23:06.259 but as a reflection for the first round, startups 00:23:06.259 --> 00:23:09.619 are usually saying that it feels something like 00:23:09.619 --> 00:23:12.039 wrong. Like it feels like I'm overselling it. 00:23:12.039 --> 00:23:14.779 It feels like I'm not such a good person in my 00:23:14.779 --> 00:23:17.420 heart. Like, but I'm just pretending that I want 00:23:17.420 --> 00:23:19.859 to build something great for this world. And 00:23:19.859 --> 00:23:22.440 for the second round, we asked the startups to 00:23:22.440 --> 00:23:25.819 choose a motivation that the least resonates 00:23:25.819 --> 00:23:28.500 with them. And usually they choose money. They 00:23:28.500 --> 00:23:32.150 just want to earn money. Yeah. And then they 00:23:32.150 --> 00:23:35.470 pitch to their peers that motivation. Like they 00:23:35.470 --> 00:23:37.089 say they started a better startup because they 00:23:37.089 --> 00:23:39.309 want to get rich. And they kind of for two, three 00:23:39.309 --> 00:23:42.390 minutes have to like act on that motivation. 00:23:42.869 --> 00:23:45.690 And when we do the reflection round, they see, 00:23:45.950 --> 00:23:48.490 they all see that it comes so much more natural. 00:23:49.250 --> 00:23:51.890 For them, like the motivation to be recognized, 00:23:51.890 --> 00:23:54.490 to get love from their parents, to prove something 00:23:54.490 --> 00:23:57.109 to their parents, to their partners, or to earn 00:23:57.109 --> 00:24:00.250 a lot of money, it comes way more natural. And 00:24:00.250 --> 00:24:04.009 then for us, this exercise is so important because 00:24:04.009 --> 00:24:07.230 we want to make sure that founders accept all 00:24:07.230 --> 00:24:10.069 the parts in themselves, good and bad, and they 00:24:10.069 --> 00:24:13.710 don't feel shame that they want to do, they want 00:24:13.710 --> 00:24:15.490 to get rich, they want to prove something to 00:24:15.490 --> 00:24:18.829 their parents, even though they're not kids anymore. 00:24:19.109 --> 00:24:21.910 And while they're accepting that, for them the 00:24:21.910 --> 00:24:26.819 energy level usually kind of... equals out a 00:24:26.819 --> 00:24:29.400 little bit, they'll stop losing some motivation 00:24:29.400 --> 00:24:31.799 to pretend that they want to do something good 00:24:31.799 --> 00:24:34.400 for this world. So that's also a very interesting 00:24:34.400 --> 00:24:39.099 exercise that we've learned to do, to accept, 00:24:39.539 --> 00:24:43.039 to help founders to accept who they are, what 00:24:43.039 --> 00:24:46.500 they are, and what they are doing. And interestingly 00:24:46.500 --> 00:24:49.720 enough, we as an investor, we never changed our 00:24:49.720 --> 00:24:53.440 opinion or we never started to think worse about 00:24:53.440 --> 00:24:56.049 the startups. if they say, well, I just want 00:24:56.049 --> 00:24:58.430 to prove to my dad, or I want to get love from 00:24:58.430 --> 00:25:02.269 my dad. And I was like, yeah, great. Great motivation. 00:25:02.470 --> 00:25:04.630 You know about it. You will achieve your result 00:25:04.630 --> 00:25:07.049 while using that motivation, but be honest to 00:25:07.049 --> 00:25:12.150 yourself. And that usually helps a lot with building 00:25:12.150 --> 00:25:15.589 the path forward that will be a bit more easy 00:25:15.589 --> 00:25:18.049 and straightforward in terms of the mental health. 00:25:18.690 --> 00:25:20.369 It kind of reminds me of the, you know, those 00:25:20.369 --> 00:25:22.809 Miss competitions and the common joke is they 00:25:22.809 --> 00:25:30.509 always say world peace. And it's also all these 00:25:30.509 --> 00:25:35.309 corporates who want to do something like sustainability, 00:25:35.809 --> 00:25:38.049 right? It's also considered very often as a marketing 00:25:38.049 --> 00:25:43.589 tool, which is a great marketing tool. Just be 00:25:43.589 --> 00:25:47.930 honest about that. Just don't lie to the public 00:25:47.930 --> 00:25:49.430 that you want to do something really, really 00:25:49.430 --> 00:25:53.130 good. Yeah, even if you're doing it for marketing, 00:25:53.309 --> 00:25:55.390 it's still better for the society, but just say 00:25:55.390 --> 00:25:57.150 you're doing it for the marketing and that's 00:25:57.150 --> 00:25:59.970 it. It's tricky to balance that. I'm just thinking 00:25:59.970 --> 00:26:02.690 the biggest, one of the funniest things in history 00:26:02.690 --> 00:26:05.809 is the fact that the Nobel Prize was actually 00:26:05.809 --> 00:26:10.539 created by a guy who invented Dynamite and the 00:26:10.539 --> 00:26:12.579 Alfred Noble was feeling so bad about himself 00:26:12.579 --> 00:26:14.500 and what he created that he decided to create 00:26:14.500 --> 00:26:16.220 something for good, which was a lot of price. 00:26:16.619 --> 00:26:18.460 But he ultimately created something that was 00:26:18.460 --> 00:26:20.740 just, you know, a pure money making machine or 00:26:20.740 --> 00:26:24.279 product. Exactly. But we also see the same in 00:26:24.279 --> 00:26:26.940 the venture capital now. We see a lot of money 00:26:26.940 --> 00:26:30.980 coming from the industry that are a little bit 00:26:30.980 --> 00:26:35.160 like not good for the site and no gaming or gambling 00:26:35.160 --> 00:26:39.640 or porn industry. there is kind of still there 00:26:39.640 --> 00:26:41.519 were a lot of venture capital money coming from 00:26:41.519 --> 00:26:45.000 that and they try to invest in the good startups 00:26:45.000 --> 00:26:49.720 which is partly controversial but partly if it 00:26:49.720 --> 00:26:52.380 if at least they don't bring it back to the industries 00:26:52.380 --> 00:26:54.440 at least they've earned their money and then 00:26:54.440 --> 00:26:56.640 okay they understood okay i did maybe something 00:26:56.640 --> 00:26:59.460 wrong for this world and i want to do something 00:26:59.460 --> 00:27:02.079 better and maybe it's better if it didn't happen 00:27:02.079 --> 00:27:05.460 at all but now Well, because it happened, the 00:27:05.460 --> 00:27:08.920 money will go to the right place. So again, being 00:27:08.920 --> 00:27:12.039 honest about why and what you're doing, I think 00:27:12.039 --> 00:27:14.900 it's super important. It's a fine balancing act, 00:27:15.019 --> 00:27:16.859 isn't it? The whole ethics of it and where the 00:27:16.859 --> 00:27:18.420 money is coming from and all that, where you're 00:27:18.420 --> 00:27:21.440 going to invest or not. Even when it comes to, 00:27:21.440 --> 00:27:24.140 for example, money from oil. people like to think 00:27:24.140 --> 00:27:26.460 oh yeah money from oil is evil but in reality 00:27:26.460 --> 00:27:28.279 is it though? because let's look in another way 00:27:28.279 --> 00:27:30.420 they all got money from oil and they actually 00:27:30.420 --> 00:27:32.420 transforming the country for the you know much 00:27:32.420 --> 00:27:36.500 better because of that so yeah and I think again 00:27:36.500 --> 00:27:39.759 I like it is controversial that I like partly 00:27:39.759 --> 00:27:41.740 want to say yeah I would also think like that 00:27:41.740 --> 00:27:44.119 part of me wants to say well no like it's better 00:27:44.119 --> 00:27:46.980 not to take money from oil but if you're in the 00:27:46.980 --> 00:27:49.900 situation again if the company if everyone is 00:27:49.900 --> 00:27:54.500 honest and transparent I think then I, for example, 00:27:54.720 --> 00:27:57.819 can make a very informative decision if I want 00:27:57.819 --> 00:27:59.839 to use this money or not. But if it's hidden, 00:28:00.559 --> 00:28:05.799 like if it's sold differently. So it's an ethical 00:28:05.799 --> 00:28:07.920 question. I don't think it's a philosophical 00:28:07.920 --> 00:28:11.380 question, I would even say. How many startups 00:28:11.380 --> 00:28:14.680 do you get in each year? Yeah. So we run two 00:28:14.680 --> 00:28:19.380 cohorts per year. And we structure it in the 00:28:19.380 --> 00:28:23.059 way that we take approximately 15, like five 00:28:23.059 --> 00:28:25.160 zero startups in the beginning of the program 00:28:25.160 --> 00:28:28.420 and we observe each other for the first one month. 00:28:28.839 --> 00:28:31.200 So the startups can get to know us to see if 00:28:31.200 --> 00:28:33.480 we add value or not. And then we can observe 00:28:33.480 --> 00:28:35.680 a startup to see if they can execute, if they 00:28:35.680 --> 00:28:39.680 can learn fast enough. if they are aligned with 00:28:39.680 --> 00:28:42.559 ABO values, if they're open to feedback and so 00:28:42.559 --> 00:28:45.779 on. And after one month, we have a stage gate 00:28:45.779 --> 00:28:50.019 where it's a two -way street where we both decide 00:28:50.019 --> 00:28:52.720 if we want to continue or not. And let's say 00:28:52.720 --> 00:28:55.359 if we decide to continue, usually it's approximately 00:28:55.359 --> 00:28:59.200 like 10 startups we continue with, where five 00:28:59.200 --> 00:29:03.299 startups, for different reasons, either stop 00:29:03.299 --> 00:29:06.309 working with us, mostly they... Usually the reason 00:29:06.309 --> 00:29:09.390 is that they're too early. They don't have enough 00:29:09.390 --> 00:29:11.710 resources in the team to do all the experiments 00:29:11.710 --> 00:29:15.430 we want to do. For example, they still need some 00:29:15.430 --> 00:29:18.569 time to build an MVP that will work to test. 00:29:19.009 --> 00:29:21.930 So we decide with them that they will wait until 00:29:21.930 --> 00:29:24.210 the next cohort and they usually join in the 00:29:24.210 --> 00:29:27.230 next cohort of the startup. So in the end, we 00:29:27.230 --> 00:29:30.069 end up investing approximately in 10 startups 00:29:30.069 --> 00:29:33.259 per accelerator program. and the follow -on investment 00:29:33.259 --> 00:29:36.180 we can invest up like actually almost to everyone 00:29:36.180 --> 00:29:39.359 or in everyone as a co -investor so whenever 00:29:39.359 --> 00:29:43.039 they raise their next round we will co -invest 00:29:43.039 --> 00:29:47.559 up to 300k co -investor opportunities as a co 00:29:47.559 --> 00:29:51.960 -investor and afterward for the follow -on investments 00:29:51.960 --> 00:29:54.980 we are now currently raising a fund so we will 00:29:54.980 --> 00:29:59.309 have some LPs to report to will be fun but now 00:29:59.309 --> 00:30:01.329 we are raising the fund to be able to support 00:30:01.329 --> 00:30:04.190 those startups and already invested in for way 00:30:04.190 --> 00:30:09.529 longer. And what's the rate of failure rate? 00:30:09.529 --> 00:30:11.230 I'm going to say what's the progression rate 00:30:11.230 --> 00:30:14.009 from, I guess, C to series A that you have so 00:30:14.009 --> 00:30:16.690 far? We're quite early in this specific company. 00:30:16.769 --> 00:30:20.009 We just operate one and a half years. It's pretty 00:30:20.009 --> 00:30:25.029 early to say, but so far we invested in, I think, 00:30:26.690 --> 00:30:30.410 15 plus eight, basically 23 companies. And out 00:30:30.410 --> 00:30:34.509 of them, I think four raised the first round 00:30:34.509 --> 00:30:38.130 within a year. So it's not bad, not good. It's 00:30:38.130 --> 00:30:40.930 just a very, I think, average rate on the market 00:30:40.930 --> 00:30:43.609 right now. But in the past, let's say in the 00:30:43.609 --> 00:30:45.690 company I used to work before, it was a very 00:30:45.690 --> 00:30:50.670 similar model. I think the follow on rate was 00:30:50.670 --> 00:30:53.869 approximately, the first follow on rate was approximately 00:30:53.869 --> 00:30:57.970 66%. which is quite good. And I think approximately 00:30:57.970 --> 00:31:01.190 40 % will continue raising the fund for the next 00:31:01.190 --> 00:31:04.690 rounds. Pretty good stats actually. It's not 00:31:04.690 --> 00:31:07.410 bad, but I think it also what helps in that is 00:31:07.410 --> 00:31:11.630 very specific domain specific startups, industry 00:31:11.630 --> 00:31:14.430 specific startups. And those industries that 00:31:14.430 --> 00:31:18.069 are like agri -food or energy or health is something 00:31:18.069 --> 00:31:23.700 that is nowadays especially quite popular, I 00:31:23.700 --> 00:31:25.900 would say. So there are a lot of specialized 00:31:25.900 --> 00:31:29.759 funds invested in that. So it's not too difficult 00:31:29.759 --> 00:31:33.819 to get access to finance if you have some traction 00:31:33.819 --> 00:31:36.720 and if you have more or less good teams. So it's 00:31:36.720 --> 00:31:39.720 possible these days, I would say. They're probably 00:31:39.720 --> 00:31:43.119 slower to, I guess, to prove profitable or to 00:31:43.119 --> 00:31:46.380 prove that. So it's a bit of a long -term bet, 00:31:46.400 --> 00:31:49.940 isn't it? It's for sure. It's especially in the 00:31:49.940 --> 00:31:53.039 agri -food and the energy domain. Yeah, it's 00:31:53.039 --> 00:31:57.519 like, yeah, if it's especially quite hard, it's 00:31:57.519 --> 00:31:59.420 still software, at least what we've invested 00:31:59.420 --> 00:32:01.940 in. But if it's a difficult technology that needs 00:32:01.940 --> 00:32:05.660 a lot of time to get to the market, so yeah, 00:32:05.680 --> 00:32:07.859 that would be a bit longer to get profitable. 00:32:08.240 --> 00:32:09.559 And it will be like, yeah, to find a business 00:32:09.559 --> 00:32:12.640 model of work in the energy space, it's quite 00:32:12.640 --> 00:32:15.740 tough. But currently, for example, in the mental 00:32:15.740 --> 00:32:19.880 health space, we invest in mostly B2C consumer 00:32:19.880 --> 00:32:24.779 apps. And this is a bit, uh, I could say maybe 00:32:24.779 --> 00:32:27.859 not profitable to, but to get some more sustained, 00:32:27.880 --> 00:32:32.579 like some proper sustainable traction becomes 00:32:32.579 --> 00:32:36.839 possible. It's expensive, especially if, uh, 00:32:36.839 --> 00:32:40.859 they start using the traffic and buy ads on like 00:32:40.859 --> 00:32:43.980 meta or Google, it becomes quite expensive, but 00:32:43.980 --> 00:32:50.279 with the proper experiments and proper, um, enough. 00:32:50.589 --> 00:32:55.390 this heady cycle like hypothesis, assumptions 00:32:55.390 --> 00:32:59.329 and experiments and so on. It's a bit easier 00:32:59.329 --> 00:33:02.390 to find the unit economic that will work. So 00:33:02.390 --> 00:33:06.650 it's possible still to get profitable a bit faster, 00:33:06.849 --> 00:33:10.049 but sometimes it's quite expensive exercise to 00:33:10.049 --> 00:33:12.529 do the first experiment because yeah, traffic 00:33:12.529 --> 00:33:14.890 nowadays is quite expensive for the bit to see 00:33:14.890 --> 00:33:18.480 consumer apps. So the key verticals you guys 00:33:18.480 --> 00:33:21.539 invest in are mental health and what else? Your 00:33:21.539 --> 00:33:24.859 mental health, education, future of work, sustainable 00:33:24.859 --> 00:33:30.019 finance. That's mostly about like teaching kids 00:33:30.019 --> 00:33:32.920 to use finance or basically how money can be 00:33:32.920 --> 00:33:36.680 used for good. as well. And currently we're exploring 00:33:36.680 --> 00:33:42.180 ethical use of AI. Ethical use of AI, okay. Because 00:33:42.180 --> 00:33:45.599 this is also very controversial topic and very 00:33:45.599 --> 00:33:49.559 hot topic right now. So basically what we believe 00:33:49.559 --> 00:33:53.500 in, and maybe I should have started with that, 00:33:54.319 --> 00:33:56.660 but there are a lot of problems in this world. 00:33:57.220 --> 00:34:00.599 There are wars, climate crisis. There is this 00:34:00.599 --> 00:34:03.380 like fear of losing jobs because technology is 00:34:03.380 --> 00:34:05.440 exponentially developing. There are a lot of 00:34:05.440 --> 00:34:08.800 problems and we believe that those also problems 00:34:08.800 --> 00:34:11.639 arise in three levels. The first level, because 00:34:11.639 --> 00:34:14.400 I'm as a person is not connected to myself as 00:34:14.400 --> 00:34:19.630 a human being. Yeah, I don't feel good. I mean 00:34:19.630 --> 00:34:22.690 I'm not talking about myself, but in general 00:34:22.690 --> 00:34:24.909 as a human being we don't feel good, depressed, 00:34:25.750 --> 00:34:29.110 there is a high level of loneliness and depression 00:34:29.110 --> 00:34:32.730 right now. So we believe that because we as a 00:34:32.730 --> 00:34:35.710 human being are not connected to ourselves, we 00:34:35.710 --> 00:34:38.110 have these problems of loneliness and depression. 00:34:38.630 --> 00:34:40.369 Then on the second level we are not connected 00:34:40.369 --> 00:34:42.809 to the communities around us, to our families, 00:34:43.050 --> 00:34:46.679 friends, neighbours. countries so we are not 00:34:46.679 --> 00:34:51.159 as a population are not connected to each other 00:34:51.159 --> 00:34:55.380 and hence wars conflicts and so on and the third 00:34:55.380 --> 00:34:57.340 level we're not connected to the nature around 00:34:57.340 --> 00:35:02.119 us and we don't care too much about the climate 00:35:02.119 --> 00:35:07.219 and we don't care enough about that and we are 00:35:07.219 --> 00:35:10.239 not connected to the nature around us And that's 00:35:10.239 --> 00:35:13.679 why we believe that there is also a climate crisis. 00:35:14.119 --> 00:35:16.679 And if our mission is to invest in the product, 00:35:17.099 --> 00:35:20.820 that will help to reduce this disconnect on one 00:35:20.820 --> 00:35:23.579 of those levels. So that's why mental health 00:35:23.579 --> 00:35:26.420 apps, it's like, for example, future of work 00:35:26.420 --> 00:35:28.659 is like, yeah, now people are afraid that they 00:35:28.659 --> 00:35:31.960 might lose the job. The job in general, the way 00:35:31.960 --> 00:35:34.300 we work is changing so much. There is like a 00:35:34.300 --> 00:35:36.780 new creator economy is becoming way bigger than 00:35:36.780 --> 00:35:40.280 the manufacturing economy. Because of that people 00:35:40.280 --> 00:35:43.079 also sometimes don't feel accomplished through 00:35:43.079 --> 00:35:45.619 they're not They don't have enough interest in 00:35:45.619 --> 00:35:48.420 their life in terms of their job and career and 00:35:48.420 --> 00:35:50.739 so on So that's kind of a level. We also want 00:35:50.739 --> 00:35:53.400 to invest and then ethical why I'm saying it 00:35:53.400 --> 00:35:56.860 because the ethical use of AI Also impacts and 00:35:56.860 --> 00:35:59.840 I and we level a lot and we don't know how the 00:35:59.840 --> 00:36:02.659 AI will continue developing what the AGI will 00:36:02.659 --> 00:36:06.260 look like and And we don't want to stop this 00:36:06.260 --> 00:36:08.019 development, but we want to make sure that people 00:36:08.019 --> 00:36:10.719 are prepared for that. So they will know how 00:36:10.719 --> 00:36:14.039 to use these instruments when they will be commonly 00:36:14.039 --> 00:36:18.119 used in the society. And we want to invest in 00:36:18.119 --> 00:36:21.360 the product that will help people to be prepared 00:36:21.360 --> 00:36:23.880 for that and to be able to judge for themselves 00:36:23.880 --> 00:36:26.920 how they want to use AI. So the AI will not use 00:36:26.920 --> 00:36:30.539 them. So we want to explore that area currently 00:36:30.539 --> 00:36:33.530 and what kind of products can. We also venture 00:36:33.530 --> 00:36:38.369 capital products in that. Very interesting. Dari, 00:36:38.409 --> 00:36:39.969 if people want to reach out to you, how can they 00:36:39.969 --> 00:36:44.059 do so? Yeah, LinkedIn would be the easiest way 00:36:44.059 --> 00:36:48.760 to reach out. Yeah, my name is Daria. My email 00:36:48.760 --> 00:36:51.780 is also open on LinkedIn. So it's possible to 00:36:51.780 --> 00:36:54.719 kind of email me through LinkedIn or text me 00:36:54.719 --> 00:36:56.920 on LinkedIn. Dangerous. That's very dangerous. 00:37:00.820 --> 00:37:04.659 I'm the person who, yeah, it's sometimes gets 00:37:04.659 --> 00:37:08.840 too much. Yeah, I think I've learned how to filter 00:37:08.840 --> 00:37:11.739 and how to answer and yeah, I found my routine 00:37:11.739 --> 00:37:15.880 to keep up with the incoming requests. Dari, 00:37:15.920 --> 00:37:17.760 it's been an absolute pleasure having you here 00:37:17.760 --> 00:37:19.300 on the podcast. Thank you so much for your time. 00:37:19.519 --> 00:37:21.460 Yeah, thank you for having me. It was fun to 00:37:21.460 --> 00:37:24.159 reflect also on my journey. Thank you for this 00:37:24.159 --> 00:37:29.699 opportunity. Thank you. The podcast is also sponsored 00:37:29.699 --> 00:37:32.400 by Notion .so. Notion is offering six months 00:37:32.400 --> 00:37:34.989 for free for new users. Make sure you check out 00:37:34.989 --> 00:37:37.769 our website, thestartupevents .co .uk to read 00:37:37.769 --> 00:37:40.309 in the software. This podcast is also sponsored 00:37:40.309 --> 00:37:43.989 by startupnetworks .co .uk. Startup Networks, 00:37:43.989 --> 00:37:46.409 it's an online forum where you can find all the 00:37:46.409 --> 00:37:48.670 resources you need to run your startup. 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