WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.859 Welcome to the Innovation Conversation, a podcast 00:00:02.859 --> 00:00:05.419 about innovators, both in business and real life. 00:00:05.879 --> 00:00:08.380 Hosted by myself, Ricardo Rescual and Harry McCona. 00:00:08.480 --> 00:00:11.699 This podcast is also sponsored by ODEV Tech. 00:00:12.439 --> 00:00:14.640 ODEV Tech is your premier software development 00:00:14.640 --> 00:00:18.019 partner. Make sure you check them out at odev 00:00:18.019 --> 00:00:22.399 .tech. The podcast is also sponsored by Notion 00:00:22.399 --> 00:00:25.359 .so. Notion is offering six months for free for 00:00:25.359 --> 00:00:27.839 new users. Make sure you check out our website, 00:00:28.039 --> 00:00:30.579 thestoreofevents .co .uk to read in the software. 00:00:31.379 --> 00:00:33.840 Hi, and welcome to another episode of the Innovation 00:00:33.840 --> 00:00:36.780 Conversation. Today we are joined by Gonzalo 00:00:36.780 --> 00:00:38.920 Martín Rocañin. I'm from Spain. Gonzalo, welcome 00:00:38.920 --> 00:00:41.320 to the podcast. Oh, thank you. Thanks for having 00:00:41.320 --> 00:00:44.020 me. Gonzalo, would you like to introduce yourself 00:00:44.020 --> 00:00:46.820 to the audience, please? Yeah, of course. Gonzalo 00:00:46.820 --> 00:00:51.979 Martín Rocañin. I'm from Spain, and I do innovation 00:00:51.979 --> 00:00:55.039 consultancy. We're dating now. I've been working 00:00:55.039 --> 00:00:59.200 for small and medium enterprises lately. Of course, 00:00:59.500 --> 00:01:01.159 we're doing open innovation with corporations. 00:01:01.759 --> 00:01:05.739 And also with my PhD on innovation and strategy 00:01:05.739 --> 00:01:11.500 at the university competition. Interesting. I'm 00:01:11.500 --> 00:01:13.680 most curious, how do you find the Spanish ecosystem 00:01:13.680 --> 00:01:16.780 overall? It's evolving. Some would say that it's 00:01:16.780 --> 00:01:19.659 a mature ecosystem from a perspective because 00:01:19.659 --> 00:01:24.180 every time I do a strategy for companies, there 00:01:24.180 --> 00:01:27.700 is this conception that all companies are in 00:01:27.700 --> 00:01:32.120 a mature phase of their life cycle. But I guess 00:01:32.120 --> 00:01:35.079 in this case, regarding entrepreneurship, I think 00:01:35.079 --> 00:01:38.840 the ecosystem is quite in an introduction phase, 00:01:39.019 --> 00:01:43.239 even if it's over 10, 15 years that it's going 00:01:43.239 --> 00:01:47.459 on. I think, and I guess that there's still more 00:01:47.459 --> 00:01:52.079 work to do, specifically in terms of more people 00:01:52.079 --> 00:02:21.949 or What do you think are the main roadblocks 00:02:21.949 --> 00:02:24.520 in Spain? for launching your business? To be 00:02:24.520 --> 00:02:27.659 honest, I think that it's this big conception 00:02:27.659 --> 00:02:32.539 that startups are only about technology, not 00:02:32.539 --> 00:02:35.740 on the one hand. And on the other, you can see 00:02:35.740 --> 00:02:39.520 it from the kind of programs administration are 00:02:39.520 --> 00:02:45.120 starting to run, focused basically on technology. 00:02:45.340 --> 00:02:48.539 And on the other, there is this misconception 00:02:48.539 --> 00:02:53.539 that no one can innovate on a startup. Well, 00:02:53.560 --> 00:02:58.120 I think it's something cultural and we as a country, 00:02:58.199 --> 00:03:01.860 as a democracy are young yet. It's only over 00:03:01.860 --> 00:03:05.340 40 years and there is still a lot of things to 00:03:05.340 --> 00:03:08.400 catch up with and entrepreneurship is one of 00:03:08.400 --> 00:03:11.439 these things that we need to catch up. Interesting. 00:03:11.659 --> 00:03:13.840 You know, when you look at other markets, do 00:03:13.840 --> 00:03:16.240 you think they're more competitive when compared 00:03:16.240 --> 00:03:18.139 to Spain or they're pretty much in the same scenario? 00:03:19.639 --> 00:03:21.780 Oh, you mean by competitive? What I mean is, 00:03:21.860 --> 00:03:23.900 for example, I understand that for you to launch 00:03:23.900 --> 00:03:26.340 a business in Spain, you actually need to, I 00:03:26.340 --> 00:03:29.300 think, pay almost 6 ,000 euros to launch the 00:03:29.300 --> 00:03:30.939 business or something like that. Yeah, which 00:03:30.939 --> 00:03:35.139 is quite a big barrier for entry. Now, when you 00:03:35.139 --> 00:03:37.659 compare that with UK, for example, where creating 00:03:37.659 --> 00:03:39.879 a company which costs you 14 pounds and then 00:03:39.879 --> 00:03:41.240 you can set up a bank account and, you know, 00:03:41.240 --> 00:03:43.439 it's very easy to start trading. Do you find 00:03:43.439 --> 00:03:45.740 that Spain could actually be easier, that they 00:03:45.740 --> 00:03:47.599 should make it easier or there's a reason why 00:03:47.599 --> 00:03:49.879 it's so complicated? Everybody says this should 00:03:49.879 --> 00:03:55.620 be easier. That's a common thing. But, I mean, 00:03:55.840 --> 00:03:58.960 it's not about that you need to put up front 00:03:58.960 --> 00:04:01.840 3 ,000, but you don't even need to put them into 00:04:01.840 --> 00:04:07.479 an account. You only need to compromise, as you 00:04:07.479 --> 00:04:12.379 will, to some extent. And even if there are barriers, 00:04:13.319 --> 00:04:17.060 what I think, there is a lack of culture on the 00:04:17.060 --> 00:04:19.519 one hand, but culture, generally speaking, but 00:04:19.519 --> 00:04:23.199 also And there is a lack of knowing those techniques, 00:04:23.500 --> 00:04:26.699 those artifacts that are used within the entrepreneurial 00:04:26.699 --> 00:04:32.680 field, and put them into work easily. So of course, 00:04:32.680 --> 00:04:35.439 I'm talking about design thinking, re -starting 00:04:35.439 --> 00:04:38.639 methods, but not from, we need to use them, not 00:04:38.639 --> 00:04:41.459 from an academic perspective, but put them into 00:04:41.459 --> 00:04:45.600 actions. And I think this is not so broadly distributed, 00:04:45.660 --> 00:04:49.259 this kind of knowledge. So for my perspective, 00:04:49.399 --> 00:04:52.870 the member, So, what would you change to make 00:04:52.870 --> 00:04:55.290 it easier to create a business and launch a business? 00:04:55.949 --> 00:04:59.850 Education. But for sure, education at the uni 00:04:59.850 --> 00:05:04.310 is something that I got perplexed because I'm 00:05:04.310 --> 00:05:07.110 teaching startup companies and I got perplexed 00:05:07.110 --> 00:05:10.529 because I didn't think that at the uni, public 00:05:10.529 --> 00:05:14.750 university, we were able to have this subject 00:05:14.750 --> 00:05:17.189 overall. It's from this educational perspective 00:05:17.189 --> 00:05:20.300 because we only do this in management. But we 00:05:20.300 --> 00:05:23.259 should expand it into other disciplines as well, 00:05:23.519 --> 00:05:25.939 especially those technical disciplines, those 00:05:25.939 --> 00:05:29.540 so -called STEM, which is so in fashion right 00:05:29.540 --> 00:05:34.100 now. So yeah, we should distribute wide range 00:05:34.100 --> 00:05:38.459 these techniques and this educational part of 00:05:38.459 --> 00:05:41.839 the entrepreneurial field. When you talk with 00:05:41.839 --> 00:05:43.899 your students, do you find that a lot of them 00:05:43.899 --> 00:05:46.360 want to launch their own business or they just 00:05:46.360 --> 00:05:50.470 want to go to be corporate? 20 and 21 years old. 00:05:50.930 --> 00:05:52.970 They don't have a clue about what to do next. 00:05:54.089 --> 00:05:56.449 That's the reality. And when I ask them about, 00:05:56.670 --> 00:05:59.389 okay, who wants to be a digital first aid question? 00:05:59.970 --> 00:06:01.750 Who wants to become an entrepreneur? Who wants 00:06:01.750 --> 00:06:05.470 to work for a corporate? Who wants to be a, to 00:06:05.470 --> 00:06:09.569 get their PhD, et cetera? Almost none of them 00:06:09.569 --> 00:06:13.089 raised their hands and answering, I want to, 00:06:13.250 --> 00:06:17.569 to become an entrepreneur. It's the super shocking. 00:06:18.360 --> 00:06:20.920 But why do you think that is? Because I would 00:06:20.920 --> 00:06:22.779 assume that being your own boss and launching 00:06:22.779 --> 00:06:25.399 your own business is better than any other scenario. 00:06:26.379 --> 00:06:29.300 I think that's because of our parents and this 00:06:29.300 --> 00:06:35.879 is the dependence that we've got from these early 00:06:35.879 --> 00:06:40.759 years of democracy. Or it was, I mean, in Spain, 00:06:41.019 --> 00:06:45.740 you certainly know, we've been through other... 00:06:46.659 --> 00:06:50.899 almost 40 years of being poor, a poor country. 00:06:51.740 --> 00:06:54.519 And after being a poor country, I think that 00:06:54.519 --> 00:06:57.519 psychologically, what people want is stability 00:06:57.519 --> 00:07:01.939 and safety and be secure in their own living. 00:07:02.560 --> 00:07:04.800 So working for an administration or working for 00:07:04.800 --> 00:07:07.779 a big company, something that gives you this 00:07:07.779 --> 00:07:11.360 is on hand. And we are now transitioning into 00:07:11.360 --> 00:07:15.899 this new approach that I'll hopefully our children 00:07:15.899 --> 00:07:20.139 and my children will have in 20 years from now. 00:07:20.899 --> 00:07:22.860 Interesting. That's actually a bit concerning. 00:07:23.079 --> 00:07:25.160 I would assume that most people will be interested 00:07:25.160 --> 00:07:26.879 in launching their own business, especially in 00:07:26.879 --> 00:07:28.839 uni, because you're full of ideas and you want 00:07:28.839 --> 00:07:33.779 to take a lot of risks. Yeah. Yeah. It's astonishing. 00:07:34.060 --> 00:07:36.519 And there's another point that when I ask if 00:07:36.519 --> 00:07:41.500 they know what sustainable company is or sustainable 00:07:41.500 --> 00:07:44.600 strategy is. They don't have the control actually, 00:07:44.800 --> 00:07:48.379 so they don't know what it is. It's very different 00:07:48.379 --> 00:07:51.180 from the reality I'm finding in some other European 00:07:51.180 --> 00:07:52.839 countries where people actually want to launch 00:07:52.839 --> 00:07:54.899 their own business. And I remember when I was 00:07:54.899 --> 00:07:58.139 back in uni, one of my pet peeves was I kept 00:07:58.139 --> 00:07:59.920 on having all these business ideas, but there 00:07:59.920 --> 00:08:03.220 was no one to talk to them about and no one to 00:08:03.220 --> 00:08:05.339 actually grow them. So that was actually, I wish 00:08:05.339 --> 00:08:07.480 I had you as a teacher back then because that 00:08:07.480 --> 00:08:09.399 would have made a huge difference. That's quite 00:08:09.399 --> 00:08:12.740 interesting. What can be done to change that 00:08:12.740 --> 00:08:16.779 overall? Cause it's a very deep problem, isn't 00:08:16.779 --> 00:08:20.759 it? Very complex problem. Yeah. And as complex 00:08:20.759 --> 00:08:23.579 as it is, there is a need of different actors 00:08:23.579 --> 00:08:27.860 playing and in order to transform, make the system 00:08:27.860 --> 00:08:30.759 change. So on the one hand, the administration, 00:08:31.319 --> 00:08:35.620 they need to create those vehicles on the one 00:08:35.620 --> 00:08:37.220 hand, but I don't think that's the most important 00:08:37.220 --> 00:08:41.210 thing. On the other, there is this need of a 00:08:41.210 --> 00:08:43.750 bigger conversation, much conversation between 00:08:43.750 --> 00:08:49.070 corporates, academia, that would be a good starting 00:08:49.070 --> 00:08:53.690 point. And then also doing some corporates entrepreneurship, 00:08:54.129 --> 00:08:57.370 which is something that is safer. And that can, 00:08:57.690 --> 00:09:00.370 not in order to get the biggest and the best 00:09:00.370 --> 00:09:03.970 startups in the world, but in order to transform 00:09:03.970 --> 00:09:07.990 and to change the way we approach to entrepreneurship. 00:09:09.389 --> 00:09:12.529 This is kind of a cultural transformation. Is 00:09:12.529 --> 00:09:16.029 this different from city to city, region to region? 00:09:16.509 --> 00:09:19.429 So I'm thinking for example, Global was launched 00:09:19.429 --> 00:09:22.289 in Barcelona, if I'm not mistaken. I know you're 00:09:22.289 --> 00:09:24.450 based in Madrid. So you think this is a difference 00:09:24.450 --> 00:09:26.870 between the two regions or it's actually the 00:09:26.870 --> 00:09:30.429 same trial? To be honest, I'm not sure, but if 00:09:30.429 --> 00:09:33.330 you look at the profiles of those people that 00:09:33.330 --> 00:09:35.830 are sat in those companies, they all come from 00:09:35.830 --> 00:09:38.929 business schools. So they come from the side, 00:09:39.029 --> 00:09:45.470 they come from the IE mostly. So I think that 00:09:45.470 --> 00:09:53.269 we've got buyers through this. What's the health 00:09:53.269 --> 00:09:56.870 of this ecosystem of this region? And it's more, 00:09:57.149 --> 00:09:59.990 yeah, because the friends that I've got, they've 00:09:59.990 --> 00:10:03.169 got startup companies. All of them I met outside 00:10:03.169 --> 00:10:05.909 the business school. Hmm. Okay. Interesting. 00:10:06.279 --> 00:10:11.000 And beyond that, we've got different entrepreneurs 00:10:11.000 --> 00:10:14.279 that maybe they go under the radar most of the 00:10:14.279 --> 00:10:16.580 time. They can, I mean, they don't even consider 00:10:16.580 --> 00:10:19.700 themselves entrepreneurs. And so we need to do 00:10:19.700 --> 00:10:23.259 some research on how those ecosystems are working. 00:10:24.220 --> 00:10:26.759 And so far I haven't seen, maybe it's my fault, 00:10:26.919 --> 00:10:29.700 but I haven't seen a research on this topic about 00:10:29.700 --> 00:10:32.940 what's the background of any, of every one or 00:10:32.940 --> 00:10:37.870 every single entrepreneur that we've got. I was 00:10:37.870 --> 00:10:39.690 just about to ask you, what about investors? 00:10:39.909 --> 00:10:42.889 Do you think investors are only investing, I 00:10:42.889 --> 00:10:45.090 guess in people with a really nice profile or 00:10:45.090 --> 00:10:48.389 are they willing to take a risk? As they say, 00:10:49.730 --> 00:10:54.470 I assume that you've got in your podcast a bunch 00:10:54.470 --> 00:10:58.029 of them because one thing is what they say to 00:10:58.029 --> 00:10:59.690 the general public and the other thing will happen 00:10:59.690 --> 00:11:04.879 inside. But it's true. from what I have witnessed, 00:11:06.379 --> 00:11:11.980 they bet on people, they bet on the CEO. And 00:11:11.980 --> 00:11:15.419 the rest is history. Interesting. Because this 00:11:15.419 --> 00:11:17.320 also limits, I guess, your ability to launch 00:11:17.320 --> 00:11:19.259 a business in the first place. Especially if 00:11:19.259 --> 00:11:21.620 you're coming from a disadvantaged background 00:11:21.620 --> 00:11:23.639 where you might just have a great idea, you might 00:11:23.639 --> 00:11:25.440 have what it takes to launch the business, but 00:11:25.440 --> 00:11:27.700 then your CV will not say you've been to a nice 00:11:27.700 --> 00:11:30.480 university. you might not have those connections. 00:11:30.820 --> 00:11:33.899 So that might be, I guess, a roadblock to success 00:11:33.899 --> 00:11:37.500 in some way. To scale up, to scale up for sure, 00:11:37.659 --> 00:11:40.960 not to start up. Because you can start up super 00:11:40.960 --> 00:11:44.759 small. And if you've got traction, you can start 00:11:44.759 --> 00:11:48.879 talking, you can join the conversation. But I 00:11:48.879 --> 00:11:51.779 think there are those different stages. And in 00:11:51.779 --> 00:11:54.259 order to scale up as your background, I don't 00:11:54.259 --> 00:11:55.960 think that it's that important. But in order 00:11:55.960 --> 00:11:59.669 to start up, I get that they are, the business 00:11:59.669 --> 00:12:03.230 are moving with the ones that I know, with gut 00:12:03.230 --> 00:12:05.870 feelings and if they know the background and 00:12:05.870 --> 00:12:09.049 they trust the CEO, okay, let's bet on this one 00:12:09.049 --> 00:12:12.590 and see what happens next. Do you think that 00:12:12.590 --> 00:12:14.789 the government is doing enough to promote this 00:12:14.789 --> 00:12:17.149 type of economic growth? If you're running for 00:12:17.149 --> 00:12:18.809 a politician, you need to be careful of this 00:12:18.809 --> 00:12:20.509 question. I'm assuming you're not, so that's 00:12:20.509 --> 00:12:26.070 why I ask. They never do enough, but I mean... 00:12:26.120 --> 00:12:28.159 They're doing their best. And as far as I know, 00:12:28.159 --> 00:12:31.720 they're doing their best. But there are also 00:12:31.720 --> 00:12:35.659 different interests. There are different stakeholders 00:12:35.659 --> 00:12:39.759 and everyone has their own interests. And I don't 00:12:39.759 --> 00:12:42.259 think this is... I mean, regarding entrepreneurship, 00:12:43.659 --> 00:12:45.620 the administration, what I think they need to 00:12:45.620 --> 00:12:48.820 do is to create this ecosystem. And that's it. 00:12:49.200 --> 00:12:52.080 That's it. It's something different if you talk 00:12:52.080 --> 00:12:56.169 about sustainability or the... most important 00:12:56.169 --> 00:12:59.950 driver should be, and it's the administration. 00:13:00.470 --> 00:13:03.429 And that's the way it is. Nice. I should be, 00:13:03.610 --> 00:13:07.710 because the government needs to take care of 00:13:07.710 --> 00:13:11.929 the public goods. But when it comes to entrepreneurship, 00:13:12.470 --> 00:13:15.110 and as there are different stakeholders working 00:13:15.110 --> 00:13:18.210 on this matter, they just don't need to be a 00:13:18.210 --> 00:13:21.090 pain in the neck. That's it. They just need to 00:13:21.090 --> 00:13:23.809 build the ecosystem. I think that's how I see 00:13:23.809 --> 00:13:29.070 the role. within all this big theater we are. 00:13:30.269 --> 00:13:33.370 What about banks? Because you have quite gigantic 00:13:33.370 --> 00:13:37.309 banks in Spain. Banks, they've got their own 00:13:37.309 --> 00:13:40.870 interests. They've got their shareholders. And 00:13:40.870 --> 00:13:43.789 what they're doing is, I mean, on the one hand, 00:13:44.250 --> 00:13:48.289 we are witnessing this, at least in Spain, that 00:13:48.289 --> 00:13:53.919 banks are buying other banks. So this oligopoly 00:13:53.919 --> 00:13:57.639 is becoming less and less big than it was years 00:13:57.639 --> 00:14:01.419 ago. So having said that, they are running new 00:14:01.419 --> 00:14:04.779 branches, new business units, new brands, trying 00:14:04.779 --> 00:14:09.740 to support entrepreneurs. I'm not quite sure 00:14:09.740 --> 00:14:12.299 what their final goal is. I mean, I don't know 00:14:12.299 --> 00:14:15.980 if they are acting as a VC, kind of VC, or they 00:14:15.980 --> 00:14:22.590 are just using it as a communication goal. To 00:14:22.590 --> 00:14:25.809 be honest, I would say the second one, but I 00:14:25.809 --> 00:14:30.149 think there's a mix of the two. So banks, once 00:14:30.149 --> 00:14:33.490 again, they're not, I mean, there's copies to, 00:14:33.490 --> 00:14:36.769 I lend you money if I am sure that I can have 00:14:36.769 --> 00:14:40.629 it back within some years. So don't put too much 00:14:40.629 --> 00:14:43.549 pressure on people or actors that they don't 00:14:43.549 --> 00:14:47.370 need to suffer this burden because it's not something 00:14:47.370 --> 00:14:53.220 that they're, It's interesting because many years 00:14:53.220 --> 00:14:55.480 ago, almost a couple of decades ago, I was trying 00:14:55.480 --> 00:14:57.679 to launch a business in Portugal and the bank 00:14:57.679 --> 00:15:01.379 asked for some financial guarantees. And the 00:15:01.379 --> 00:15:03.500 financial guarantees, had I signed the contract, 00:15:04.019 --> 00:15:07.120 would be much higher than any risk the bank would 00:15:07.120 --> 00:15:09.779 actually be taking to the sum that I was asking 00:15:09.779 --> 00:15:12.980 for in the absolute numbers, 100k. And they wanted 00:15:12.980 --> 00:15:15.019 the financial guarantees of half a million. And 00:15:15.019 --> 00:15:17.200 I'm like, well, hold on guys, as a business person, 00:15:17.480 --> 00:15:19.340 if I was to sign this, I'll be the worst business 00:15:19.340 --> 00:15:21.360 person in the world. And you as a lender should 00:15:21.360 --> 00:15:24.039 actually be concerned with my ability to assess 00:15:24.039 --> 00:15:26.519 risk and stuff like that because it doesn't make 00:15:26.519 --> 00:15:28.259 any business sense to even do this. But yeah, 00:15:28.559 --> 00:15:30.919 those were conditions back then which were not 00:15:30.919 --> 00:15:36.840 beneficial to start any business really. Yeah, 00:15:39.840 --> 00:15:42.299 it's a big thing. What about the legal system? 00:15:42.500 --> 00:15:44.639 Is it easy to navigate around that in Spain? 00:15:44.679 --> 00:15:48.649 Is it quick or not really? The legal system in 00:15:48.649 --> 00:15:51.549 terms of all the procedures that we need to do 00:15:51.549 --> 00:15:54.149 in order to start our company, I think that are 00:15:54.149 --> 00:15:58.389 pretty much streamlined, but there is a lack 00:15:58.389 --> 00:16:02.429 of legal counsel within most of the companies. 00:16:02.809 --> 00:16:07.889 Daily, I can imagine the reason behind that. 00:16:08.409 --> 00:16:13.169 The status are not a big customer for a legal 00:16:13.169 --> 00:16:18.039 company. or at least for most of them. And what 00:16:18.039 --> 00:16:21.340 I want to say lately is also that we need and 00:16:21.340 --> 00:16:24.820 startups and companies alike need legal advisory 00:16:24.820 --> 00:16:28.779 on reaching funds from the European Union in 00:16:28.779 --> 00:16:31.960 order to innovate. And this is something that 00:16:31.960 --> 00:16:35.059 there is a super big lack of information within 00:16:35.059 --> 00:16:38.700 companies. The big ones and small ones alike. 00:16:38.860 --> 00:16:42.159 And that would be something that could help. 00:16:54.279 --> 00:16:57.759 Do you think there's a bigger dependency on funds 00:16:57.759 --> 00:17:00.340 versus other markets where the dependency is 00:17:00.340 --> 00:17:02.620 actually on investors and finding the right investors? 00:17:03.519 --> 00:17:06.720 And I'm trying to compare between Spain and also 00:17:06.720 --> 00:17:09.240 Portugal and a bunch of other UAE countries. 00:17:09.519 --> 00:17:11.680 compared with the UK, where they don't have access 00:17:11.680 --> 00:17:14.299 to those funds, but they go over to investors 00:17:14.299 --> 00:17:16.779 and say the same thing, hey, we need X amount 00:17:16.779 --> 00:17:18.480 of money to grow the company in this direction, 00:17:18.940 --> 00:17:20.819 and we're going to get, you know, Y in revenue. 00:17:20.980 --> 00:17:22.940 Whereas in here, you just go to, you know, trying 00:17:22.940 --> 00:17:25.240 to get government support and stuff. Okay, every 00:17:25.240 --> 00:17:28.599 country has their own resources. So if there 00:17:28.599 --> 00:17:30.019 are countries that they don't have these kind 00:17:30.019 --> 00:17:34.640 of resources, that's their reality. And so it 00:17:34.640 --> 00:17:37.759 might be changed accordingly. But we are in a 00:17:37.759 --> 00:17:40.380 country that we need, that we've got those resources. 00:17:40.940 --> 00:17:43.059 We need to use them in order to create those 00:17:43.059 --> 00:17:50.220 capabilities that can help the companies to grow 00:17:50.220 --> 00:17:52.460 somehow. Do you think people are too dependent 00:17:52.460 --> 00:17:54.799 on that? I don't, no, I don't think they're dependent 00:17:54.799 --> 00:17:57.180 on that, but they are, there are slack resources 00:17:57.180 --> 00:18:00.640 that we are not using. So this is the kind of 00:18:00.640 --> 00:18:04.480 missed function of the system. One of the things 00:18:04.480 --> 00:18:06.759 for example I noticed in Portugal is every single 00:18:06.759 --> 00:18:08.920 company project that requires a little bit of 00:18:08.920 --> 00:18:11.799 investment always tries to go for some type of 00:18:11.799 --> 00:18:14.339 European funding and it actually it only happens 00:18:14.339 --> 00:18:16.720 if they get a European funding and Sometimes 00:18:16.720 --> 00:18:19.000 you even get into the situation where they get 00:18:19.000 --> 00:18:20.539 European funding But they actually don't use 00:18:20.539 --> 00:18:22.380 it for anything else apart from buying really 00:18:22.380 --> 00:18:24.200 nice cards for the company, which is obviously 00:18:24.200 --> 00:18:26.720 not ideal That's a different story. I don't think 00:18:26.720 --> 00:18:30.119 that it's working anymore like this. I think 00:18:30.119 --> 00:18:34.359 I guess At least from those previous years, I 00:18:34.359 --> 00:18:37.279 mean, on and on, everything that they had said, 00:18:37.460 --> 00:18:41.339 you need to justify somehow the origin and the 00:18:41.339 --> 00:18:44.380 destination of your fans. So the fans need to 00:18:44.380 --> 00:18:47.759 go to innovation, that's for sure. I think you 00:18:47.759 --> 00:18:50.660 can, you know, as it might be, they are quite 00:18:50.660 --> 00:18:53.420 curious about this topic, so. And rightfully 00:18:53.420 --> 00:18:57.359 so. Yeah. What about the ecosystem in, for example, 00:18:57.359 --> 00:18:59.599 in Madrid? I mean, we run a couple of events 00:18:59.599 --> 00:19:02.690 there. How should I put this? It's not a struggle 00:19:02.690 --> 00:19:05.230 to find people, but I think it's still a very 00:19:05.230 --> 00:19:08.109 growing ecosystem. I see a lot of stuff from 00:19:08.109 --> 00:19:10.869 the City Hall trying to get more people launching 00:19:10.869 --> 00:19:13.029 stuff. You also have big events happening there. 00:19:13.710 --> 00:19:15.849 How do you think that ecosystem is? Is it thriving 00:19:15.849 --> 00:19:19.049 or is it just getting started? As I mentioned, 00:19:19.210 --> 00:19:20.769 at the beginning of our conversation, I think 00:19:20.769 --> 00:19:27.210 it's in the introductory phase. The actors and 00:19:27.210 --> 00:19:30.650 the diverse actors that need to jump in are still 00:19:30.650 --> 00:19:34.410 in the nation stage. So we've got the Madrid 00:19:34.410 --> 00:19:36.769 Council, that's for sure. We've got some innovation 00:19:36.769 --> 00:19:39.849 programs, of course. And we've got just a few 00:19:39.849 --> 00:19:44.529 startups. But something that needs to grow over 00:19:44.529 --> 00:19:48.869 the years. And maybe in 10 years' time, not earlier, 00:19:49.309 --> 00:19:52.349 we will have an ecosystem that is appealing. 00:19:52.750 --> 00:19:57.789 But I think that's basically it. We cannot ask 00:19:57.789 --> 00:20:02.150 more than we are able to give in the general 00:20:02.150 --> 00:20:07.910 environment. If you had like a magic wand and 00:20:07.910 --> 00:20:10.289 you can change like a lot of things, where would 00:20:10.289 --> 00:20:13.589 you start changing things? By trying to find 00:20:13.589 --> 00:20:21.130 out the new startup CEOs. So we need to... cultivate 00:20:21.130 --> 00:20:25.450 younger generations and to educate them into 00:20:25.450 --> 00:20:29.490 and inoculate them this entrepreneurial gene 00:20:29.490 --> 00:20:33.109 or interest which on the other hand I don't think 00:20:33.109 --> 00:20:35.930 it exists but we need to give them the tools 00:20:35.930 --> 00:20:39.029 the right tools in order to say okay you've got 00:20:39.029 --> 00:20:43.569 you your parents on the path you've got new options 00:20:43.569 --> 00:20:47.470 in front of you and one of these options is becoming 00:20:47.470 --> 00:20:49.759 an entrepreneur And here you've got the tool, 00:20:50.079 --> 00:20:52.339 here you've got the ecosystem, and let's walk 00:20:52.339 --> 00:20:55.599 this path together. Interesting. Now, we need 00:20:55.599 --> 00:20:57.579 a question that, you know, it's the reason why 00:20:57.579 --> 00:21:00.359 limited companies exist, which is, let's say 00:21:00.359 --> 00:21:02.240 worst comes to worst, you launch a business, 00:21:02.359 --> 00:21:03.920 the business doesn't work, you fail the business, 00:21:04.079 --> 00:21:07.039 you close down the business, that's it. Is that 00:21:07.039 --> 00:21:10.519 going to be frowned upon amongst, you know, your 00:21:10.519 --> 00:21:13.740 fellow peers in society or not really? They think 00:21:13.740 --> 00:21:16.240 that if you fail, you did the wrong thing. Yeah, 00:21:16.460 --> 00:21:18.019 you launch a business in Spain, it doesn't work. 00:21:18.039 --> 00:21:20.640 You fail, you carry on. And now in a lot of companies, 00:21:20.880 --> 00:21:22.779 actually, I think it's one of the criteria for 00:21:22.779 --> 00:21:26.119 a lot of investors is they only invest in startups 00:21:26.119 --> 00:21:28.420 who have founders who actually failed the previous 00:21:28.420 --> 00:21:30.480 businesses because they've learned a lot of lessons. 00:21:31.140 --> 00:21:32.819 Now, do you think that is that the case in Spain 00:21:32.819 --> 00:21:34.420 or people actually, they fail once and they never 00:21:34.420 --> 00:21:39.710 try it again? I know people that are professionals 00:21:39.710 --> 00:21:42.250 or starting and restarting companies all over 00:21:42.250 --> 00:21:45.269 again. Even if they never have success, but eventually 00:21:45.269 --> 00:21:48.670 they will. Or not. Again, as we are living in 00:21:48.670 --> 00:21:52.210 our own bubble, I guess, the people that we see 00:21:52.210 --> 00:21:54.869 that they are entrepreneurs, they are starting 00:21:54.869 --> 00:21:56.990 and starting and starting again. But we only 00:21:56.990 --> 00:22:00.049 have the population and the examples. I don't 00:22:00.049 --> 00:22:04.269 know any single one, but that's also my own world. 00:22:06.120 --> 00:22:08.740 people that start a company, maybe they can fail 00:22:08.740 --> 00:22:11.579 and over the years they start to decay. Because 00:22:11.579 --> 00:22:13.859 maybe, and I don't know what you think about 00:22:13.859 --> 00:22:17.980 it, Ricardo, if you once in your lifetime have 00:22:17.980 --> 00:22:21.720 decided to create your own company, it's because 00:22:21.720 --> 00:22:26.200 you are tired of working for a company. Once 00:22:26.200 --> 00:22:30.160 you experience the sense of freedom, you don't 00:22:30.160 --> 00:22:33.839 want to get rid of that sense of freedom, even 00:22:33.839 --> 00:22:36.769 if you eventually might fall into this trap of, 00:22:36.990 --> 00:22:39.190 okay, let's go back to a corporate so I can feel 00:22:39.190 --> 00:22:41.730 safe for now. But eventually over the years, 00:22:42.009 --> 00:22:47.089 you are going to start something on your own 00:22:47.089 --> 00:22:50.289 or with other peers again. I don't know what's 00:22:50.289 --> 00:22:56.289 your plan. I am becoming the host of your podcast. 00:22:56.690 --> 00:22:59.789 No, no, but that's the thing. The way I see entrepreneurs 00:22:59.789 --> 00:23:01.910 and the more people I talk to is, you're not 00:23:01.910 --> 00:23:03.950 going to be right all the time and that's fine. 00:23:03.990 --> 00:23:05.970 It doesn't mean your idea is going to be successful 00:23:05.970 --> 00:23:08.250 and that's also fine, but you keep on trying 00:23:08.250 --> 00:23:11.009 until you achieve your goals. And that's what 00:23:11.009 --> 00:23:12.970 matters. And that's what's going to make a difference 00:23:12.970 --> 00:23:15.109 between being an entrepreneur or being someone 00:23:15.109 --> 00:23:16.910 who tried once. And that's why I was asking, 00:23:16.970 --> 00:23:19.890 is it frowned upon among society? Because everyone 00:23:19.890 --> 00:23:22.349 I talked to who has actually made it to a point 00:23:22.349 --> 00:23:24.049 where they became millionaires, they all said, 00:23:24.230 --> 00:23:26.730 yeah, I failed five or six times before I found 00:23:26.730 --> 00:23:28.789 something that worked. And they just take it 00:23:28.789 --> 00:23:30.549 as part of the game. It's the same thing with, 00:23:30.549 --> 00:23:32.170 I guess, relationships. You're not going to, 00:23:32.349 --> 00:23:34.069 you know, depends on who you are, but most people 00:23:34.069 --> 00:23:36.210 don't marry the first person they kiss, right? 00:23:36.490 --> 00:23:39.269 They kiss a couple more to get to that stage. 00:23:39.529 --> 00:23:42.849 So yeah, that's why I see it. Yeah. And also 00:23:42.849 --> 00:23:44.430 I think there are different, different goals 00:23:44.430 --> 00:23:46.789 among the enterprise, even if they are not aware 00:23:46.789 --> 00:23:49.990 of them. On the one hand, we can, we can see 00:23:49.990 --> 00:23:53.190 it. Some of them that they see this as a new 00:23:53.190 --> 00:23:56.210 exercise, a new academic exercise, or just to 00:23:56.210 --> 00:23:59.089 prove themselves and to see what happens when 00:23:59.089 --> 00:24:02.170 you start to run your own business. On the other, 00:24:02.289 --> 00:24:04.569 there are people that and I think those are the 00:24:04.569 --> 00:24:07.549 most successful of them all that they start company 00:24:07.549 --> 00:24:11.049 because they want to become rich. Their focus 00:24:11.049 --> 00:24:13.269 is on achieving that goal and there are others 00:24:13.269 --> 00:24:17.819 that You do it because you are feeling or you're 00:24:17.819 --> 00:24:19.779 having a bad experience within the corporate 00:24:19.779 --> 00:24:24.420 world and you want to test what figures look 00:24:24.420 --> 00:24:27.339 like. So there are different kinds of roles, 00:24:27.579 --> 00:24:30.160 different kinds of how to measure success. And 00:24:30.160 --> 00:24:31.920 I think that's something that we could explore 00:24:31.920 --> 00:24:35.059 in the future as well. Interesting. What do you 00:24:35.059 --> 00:24:37.339 think? Because Spain obviously, you know, had 00:24:37.339 --> 00:24:39.440 a gigantic empire, so did Portugal, but you also 00:24:39.440 --> 00:24:42.039 have a lot of immigrants coming in from Latin 00:24:42.039 --> 00:24:44.670 Spanish speaking countries. Do you find that 00:24:44.670 --> 00:24:48.230 they are more, more willing to take risks to 00:24:48.230 --> 00:24:51.430 launch their own business overall? My wife is 00:24:51.430 --> 00:24:54.450 Argentinian and I've got tons of friends from 00:24:54.450 --> 00:24:57.549 Colombia as well. And there's a big difference. 00:24:57.970 --> 00:25:00.450 Also, I don't know if we are biased with the 00:25:00.450 --> 00:25:03.710 population that the people that we are in, we're 00:25:03.710 --> 00:25:06.809 with, but the Colombian and Argentinian people, 00:25:07.089 --> 00:25:09.450 they are super entrepreneurial, they've got super 00:25:09.450 --> 00:25:13.470 entrepreneurial spirit. They are super used to 00:25:13.470 --> 00:25:16.990 start business units in their own countries. 00:25:17.369 --> 00:25:21.970 But it's something insane. Because my wife, for 00:25:21.970 --> 00:25:25.829 example, when she was younger, along with her 00:25:25.829 --> 00:25:33.269 sister, they got a business of celebrating birthdays 00:25:33.269 --> 00:25:36.720 for their parties. And this is something very 00:25:36.720 --> 00:25:39.480 usual there. There's also very usual to cook 00:25:39.480 --> 00:25:42.819 for others. They cook the cakes and they cook 00:25:42.819 --> 00:25:46.559 meals for parties or for gatherings. And they 00:25:46.559 --> 00:25:53.400 also do refurbishment of furniture and they sell 00:25:53.400 --> 00:25:57.099 what they've got. And this is something that 00:25:57.099 --> 00:26:02.339 is in their DNA. Maybe it's because of the environment 00:26:02.339 --> 00:26:05.940 or their... how they struggle within their countries. 00:26:06.299 --> 00:26:09.460 But what I see is that specifically Argentinian 00:26:09.460 --> 00:26:11.640 and Colombian people and those that come here, 00:26:11.960 --> 00:26:15.980 you can see the difference in the street. Because 00:26:15.980 --> 00:26:17.920 they just want to get stuff done, right? They 00:26:17.920 --> 00:26:21.380 don't. There's no barriers to making things. 00:26:22.240 --> 00:26:25.319 I get the issue with the mindset because, you 00:26:25.319 --> 00:26:27.420 know, coming from, I guess, a middle -class background 00:26:27.420 --> 00:26:29.869 in Portugal. If I was to turn to my friends and 00:26:29.869 --> 00:26:31.410 said, I'm going to start, you know, organizing 00:26:31.410 --> 00:26:33.210 birthday parties and selling cakes. They're like, 00:26:33.210 --> 00:26:36.009 Oh, are you crazy? Why just get a job or get, 00:26:36.130 --> 00:26:38.069 you know, get a promotion, a new job. But actually 00:26:38.069 --> 00:26:39.609 there's, there's a lot to be gained by doing 00:26:39.609 --> 00:26:41.410 that and just launching your own business and 00:26:41.410 --> 00:26:43.890 side business and stuff like that. So, yeah. 00:26:44.329 --> 00:26:46.349 Yeah. I haven't said business is something common 00:26:46.349 --> 00:26:49.529 over there. And it's, and it's quite uncommon 00:26:49.529 --> 00:26:53.930 here. And once you realize that money that comes 00:26:53.930 --> 00:27:00.150 from side jobs is super good. And it's also a 00:27:00.150 --> 00:27:04.809 way of starting a business and multitasking. 00:27:05.970 --> 00:27:08.109 Do you think that by, you know, bringing that 00:27:08.109 --> 00:27:10.430 spirit back to Spain, do you think they, they, 00:27:10.430 --> 00:27:12.930 they've kind of brought a lot of momentum to 00:27:12.930 --> 00:27:15.009 the economy and a lot of momentum to, you know, 00:27:15.089 --> 00:27:17.269 to the ecosystem saying, Hey, you know, I'm coming 00:27:17.269 --> 00:27:19.289 from Columbia, Argentina. I've run businesses 00:27:19.289 --> 00:27:21.849 there when I run a business here as well. Definitely. 00:27:22.130 --> 00:27:24.390 Definitely. I mean, that's, that's That's, that's 00:27:24.390 --> 00:27:27.329 my, that's my answer. There is no something else 00:27:27.329 --> 00:27:30.329 to give to explain this. Definitely. Interesting 00:27:30.329 --> 00:27:31.789 though, because this is kind of fascinating. 00:27:32.009 --> 00:27:34.369 Now we met, we kind of touched upon the differences 00:27:34.369 --> 00:27:36.490 between the different regions in Spain. I want 00:27:36.490 --> 00:27:39.049 to go a little bit deeper. Do you think there 00:27:39.049 --> 00:27:41.630 is a region or a city that's better to launch 00:27:41.630 --> 00:27:44.130 a business than the other overall, or they're 00:27:44.130 --> 00:27:46.789 pretty much all the same? It also depends on 00:27:46.789 --> 00:27:49.450 the business, but it's something easy to understand 00:27:49.450 --> 00:27:51.869 that if you are located in Madrid or in Barcelona. 00:27:52.220 --> 00:27:58.160 You've got better communications. Also the airports 00:27:58.160 --> 00:28:01.640 that we've got here are much bigger and better 00:28:01.640 --> 00:28:04.259 connected to the world. So that's what I would 00:28:04.259 --> 00:28:09.599 say. On the other hand is that accommodation 00:28:09.599 --> 00:28:13.779 and living in these cities is also super expensive. 00:28:15.259 --> 00:28:18.000 So, but yeah, I mean, I would be located near 00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:21.119 Madrid or near Barcelona in places where the 00:28:21.119 --> 00:28:23.960 cost of living are or lower, but definitely you 00:28:23.960 --> 00:28:26.539 need to, to get connected and be connected to 00:28:26.539 --> 00:28:29.720 the rest of the world. Cause I'm going to conference 00:28:29.720 --> 00:28:34.799 next week in Salamanca, Sarebole. I've been to 00:28:34.799 --> 00:28:36.619 Salamanca many times, but it's off the beaten 00:28:36.619 --> 00:28:38.119 track. It's not something you think about when 00:28:38.119 --> 00:28:40.099 you think about entrepreneurs, but you start 00:28:40.099 --> 00:28:41.460 looking at everyone's going to be there. Like, 00:28:41.599 --> 00:28:42.779 I don't know. It's quite a lot of, you know, 00:28:42.779 --> 00:28:44.339 very important people from, from all over the 00:28:44.339 --> 00:28:47.220 world. So yeah, I think Salamanca has become 00:28:47.220 --> 00:28:51.970 a network node. So, okay, instead of meeting 00:28:51.970 --> 00:28:56.049 in Madrid or in another city in the world, let's 00:28:56.049 --> 00:28:58.430 meet in Salamanca, which on the other hand, it's 00:28:58.430 --> 00:29:01.670 super fabulous. Yeah. It's funny. It doesn't 00:29:01.670 --> 00:29:03.549 even have easy access. I mean, it has a tiny 00:29:03.549 --> 00:29:06.009 airport, but that's about it, you know, for trains 00:29:06.009 --> 00:29:08.650 and stuff. But yeah, it's funny how they managed 00:29:08.650 --> 00:29:12.049 to take a small city that has a lot of history, 00:29:12.089 --> 00:29:14.609 obviously, but it's not as easy connected as 00:29:14.609 --> 00:29:16.509 Madrid or Barcelona and still make a huge event 00:29:16.509 --> 00:29:20.640 there. So that's quite impressive. I mean, it's 00:29:20.640 --> 00:29:22.920 a stakeholder's point. And I don't know, I don't 00:29:22.920 --> 00:29:25.859 have the information about how many staffs have 00:29:25.859 --> 00:29:33.339 set up. It's a super cool place to meet. That's 00:29:33.339 --> 00:29:35.480 for sure. And Gonzalo, if people want to reach 00:29:35.480 --> 00:29:37.319 out to you and find out more about the stuff 00:29:37.319 --> 00:29:40.019 you do, how can you do so? Yeah, they can find 00:29:40.019 --> 00:29:45.700 me on dating for sure. And I'd be glad to get 00:29:45.700 --> 00:29:49.519 in touch with them. Sounds good. That's all. 00:29:49.619 --> 00:29:50.880 Thank you so much for your time. I really enjoyed 00:29:50.880 --> 00:29:52.640 that conversation. Well, thank you for having 00:29:52.640 --> 00:29:56.880 me too. It was fun. Bye bye. All right, so that's 00:29:56.880 --> 00:29:59.440 it. The podcast is also sponsored by Notion .so. 00:29:59.799 --> 00:30:01.900 Notion is offering six months for free for new 00:30:01.900 --> 00:30:05.140 users. Make sure you check out our website, thestartupevents 00:30:05.140 --> 00:30:07.799 .co .uk to read in the software. 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