WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.859 Welcome to the Innovation Conversation, a podcast 00:00:02.859 --> 00:00:05.419 about innovators, both in business and real life. 00:00:05.879 --> 00:00:08.380 Hosted by myself, Ricardo Rescual and Harry McCona. 00:00:08.480 --> 00:00:11.699 This podcast is also sponsored by ODEV Tech. 00:00:12.439 --> 00:00:14.640 ODEV Tech is your premier software development 00:00:14.640 --> 00:00:18.019 partner. Make sure you check them out at odev 00:00:18.019 --> 00:00:22.399 .tech. The podcast is also sponsored by Notion 00:00:22.399 --> 00:00:25.359 .so. Notion is offering six months for free for 00:00:25.359 --> 00:00:27.839 new users. Make sure you check out our website, 00:00:28.039 --> 00:00:30.579 thestoreofevents .co .uk to read in the software. 00:00:31.800 --> 00:00:34.159 Hi, and welcome to another episode of The Innovation 00:00:34.159 --> 00:00:36.960 Conversation. Today we are joined by Tyler Gordon. 00:00:37.140 --> 00:00:39.859 Tyler, welcome to the show. Hey, thank you so 00:00:39.859 --> 00:00:42.759 much Ricardo. Pleasure having you here, Tyler. 00:00:43.200 --> 00:00:44.859 Tyler, would you like to introduce yourself a 00:00:44.859 --> 00:00:47.200 bit to the audience, please? Yeah, sure. Well, 00:00:47.200 --> 00:00:49.579 my name is Tyler Gordon. I'm originally from 00:00:49.579 --> 00:00:52.159 South Florida, but I've been living in Portugal 00:00:52.159 --> 00:00:55.670 for about four and a half years now. And I would 00:00:55.670 --> 00:00:57.429 say I'm a bit of a serial entrepreneur. I built 00:00:57.429 --> 00:01:00.270 a few successful businesses and consultancies 00:01:00.270 --> 00:01:04.510 and currently building some interesting things 00:01:04.510 --> 00:01:07.349 here in Portugal. Interesting. Okay, so there's 00:01:07.349 --> 00:01:10.109 a lot to unravel here. Obviously, I'm biased 00:01:10.109 --> 00:01:12.230 because you're in my hometown. So I'm going to 00:01:12.230 --> 00:01:14.629 ask you a lot of questions about the move to 00:01:14.629 --> 00:01:16.230 Portugal, which for me is quite fascinating. 00:01:16.849 --> 00:01:18.709 But I guess the first one, can you tell us a 00:01:18.709 --> 00:01:20.349 bit more like all the companies you got started 00:01:20.349 --> 00:01:22.329 and how did you end up in Portugal? How did that 00:01:22.329 --> 00:01:25.489 journey went? Yeah, yeah. I mean, since I was 00:01:25.489 --> 00:01:27.650 in middle school and high school, my buddies 00:01:27.650 --> 00:01:31.209 and I were selling websites. I guess my first 00:01:31.209 --> 00:01:35.750 big business that I built was in my 20s, we built 00:01:35.750 --> 00:01:38.709 a real estate technology business that built 00:01:38.709 --> 00:01:41.090 scheduling messaging tools for real estate agents 00:01:41.090 --> 00:01:44.209 called Agent Inbox. We ended up scaling it to 00:01:44.209 --> 00:01:47.109 about 10 % of the US, raising some money and 00:01:47.109 --> 00:01:50.549 exiting the business. I'm also the chief operating 00:01:50.549 --> 00:01:53.370 officer of a consulting business called Big Binary. 00:01:53.849 --> 00:01:55.950 So we're a high -end software development agency 00:01:55.950 --> 00:01:59.549 and we have about 200 engineers and employees. 00:02:00.129 --> 00:02:03.109 And we build software for Angelus, Major League 00:02:03.109 --> 00:02:05.650 Baseball. We've had four startups that we've 00:02:05.650 --> 00:02:08.090 built that have been sold. I actually hired them 00:02:08.090 --> 00:02:10.870 back in 2013 to build my first startup. That's 00:02:10.870 --> 00:02:15.490 how I got connected with them. And just building 00:02:15.490 --> 00:02:17.289 some other organizations here in Portugal besides 00:02:17.289 --> 00:02:21.259 Tejamed. One's a intergenerational housing charity. 00:02:21.360 --> 00:02:23.740 We're matching older Portuguese people that live 00:02:23.740 --> 00:02:27.400 alone with people that need affordable housing. 00:02:28.259 --> 00:02:30.759 Okay, interesting. So how did it happen? Because 00:02:30.759 --> 00:02:32.879 everyone I talk to in Europe always wants to 00:02:32.879 --> 00:02:35.439 go to the States, but you actually move the other 00:02:35.439 --> 00:02:37.439 way back or the other way. I mean the other way 00:02:37.439 --> 00:02:40.199 around. So how did it happen? Yeah, so I've been 00:02:40.199 --> 00:02:45.800 working remotely since 2013. And so my last business 00:02:45.800 --> 00:02:48.500 in the US, you know, I could be remote, but I 00:02:48.500 --> 00:02:50.860 had to go to a lot of meetings and in person 00:02:50.860 --> 00:02:52.879 things. And it was always a dream of mine to 00:02:52.879 --> 00:02:55.479 live abroad and to spend time in different countries. 00:02:55.840 --> 00:02:59.800 And so after the agent inbox company, I sold 00:02:59.800 --> 00:03:02.520 my things and moved into my backpack and was 00:03:02.520 --> 00:03:04.599 traveling for about two years working in helping 00:03:04.599 --> 00:03:07.879 run that consulting business. And I arrived here 00:03:07.879 --> 00:03:12.319 January 2020. Good timing. I had no intentions. 00:03:12.659 --> 00:03:15.479 Perfect timing. I honestly didn't know much about 00:03:15.479 --> 00:03:16.860 Portugal at the time. I had a bunch of Portuguese 00:03:16.860 --> 00:03:19.039 friends from the Bay area, but that's about it. 00:03:19.419 --> 00:03:21.819 And I liked it. So I extended one month and two 00:03:21.819 --> 00:03:24.080 months and three months. And then the pandemic 00:03:24.080 --> 00:03:28.919 happened and now I live here. Yeah, I feel like 00:03:28.919 --> 00:03:35.000 living in Portugal as an American really is. 00:03:36.180 --> 00:03:37.800 In the United States, I feel like people's identities 00:03:37.800 --> 00:03:40.039 are tied to their work, where I feel like people 00:03:40.039 --> 00:03:43.680 here in Europe. Work doesn't necessarily come 00:03:43.680 --> 00:03:45.819 first and you can have relationships with people 00:03:45.819 --> 00:03:47.800 for a very long time where nobody ever talks 00:03:47.800 --> 00:03:54.039 about work and of my American entrepreneur, entrepreneurial 00:03:54.039 --> 00:03:57.400 spirit being this type of community. Yeah, that 00:03:57.400 --> 00:04:00.280 is actually, it's very true. I think at least 00:04:00.280 --> 00:04:02.699 especially in Portugal, we tend not to ask what 00:04:02.699 --> 00:04:05.000 people do for a living. We just take them for, 00:04:05.280 --> 00:04:06.840 oh, they're here. What's your name? Okay, we'll 00:04:06.840 --> 00:04:09.740 deal with you as an individual, not so much show 00:04:09.740 --> 00:04:12.030 your job title because Unless you're a doctor, 00:04:12.229 --> 00:04:14.169 which can always use a doctor, right? Then people 00:04:14.169 --> 00:04:16.889 really don't care, I think. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:04:16.889 --> 00:04:20.550 I think it's really... I think there's a balance 00:04:20.550 --> 00:04:23.509 that I like halfway between the two, where work 00:04:23.509 --> 00:04:28.069 does not come first in life, but also as people 00:04:28.069 --> 00:04:29.750 that like building things. I mean, it's just 00:04:29.750 --> 00:04:32.410 our passion and there's really nothing I'd rather 00:04:32.410 --> 00:04:35.129 do most of the time than just create interesting 00:04:35.129 --> 00:04:38.129 things. Did you find it like when you launched 00:04:38.129 --> 00:04:40.220 your company here, so... Actually, tell us a 00:04:40.220 --> 00:04:42.439 bit more about what you do right now with a company 00:04:42.439 --> 00:04:45.060 in Portugal. Yes. So we're building Portugal's 00:04:45.060 --> 00:04:48.459 first concierge doctor's clinic. Concierge medicine 00:04:48.459 --> 00:04:50.579 has been around the United States at this point 00:04:50.579 --> 00:04:54.579 for 20 years and some very, very large companies 00:04:54.579 --> 00:04:58.259 in this space. And the idea behind concierge 00:04:58.259 --> 00:05:02.319 medicine is you pay a membership fee that allows 00:05:02.319 --> 00:05:05.259 a doctor to see less patients and provide you 00:05:05.259 --> 00:05:08.000 with personalized care. So most care at this 00:05:08.000 --> 00:05:11.449 point is If today is something's broke, you go 00:05:11.449 --> 00:05:13.449 to the doctor and they fix it. For concierge, 00:05:13.930 --> 00:05:16.110 medicine is really focused on trying to prevent 00:05:16.110 --> 00:05:20.129 things from breaking early on. And more practical 00:05:20.129 --> 00:05:23.649 standpoint would be both here and in the United 00:05:23.649 --> 00:05:25.589 States, if you want to see a GP or if you have 00:05:25.589 --> 00:05:28.750 a medicine doctor that you like, oftentimes it 00:05:28.750 --> 00:05:31.209 takes a while to get in. If you get there, the 00:05:31.209 --> 00:05:34.310 doctor is super late. You have a 15 -minute appointment 00:05:34.310 --> 00:05:38.040 that's super rushed. The doctor doesn't even 00:05:38.040 --> 00:05:40.839 know your name. They focus on giving drugs and 00:05:40.839 --> 00:05:43.500 treating symptoms. And it's not the doctor's 00:05:43.500 --> 00:05:46.360 fault either. I mean, the system, when doctors 00:05:46.360 --> 00:05:49.519 are paid per volume of patients they see, they 00:05:49.519 --> 00:05:51.259 end up seeing about 2 ,000 or 3 ,000 patients 00:05:51.259 --> 00:05:53.560 per year. And just that's what they have to do. 00:05:54.079 --> 00:05:57.680 With our business, Concierge Medicine, as I said, 00:05:57.759 --> 00:05:59.819 you have a membership fee. So the doctor sees 00:05:59.819 --> 00:06:02.839 less patients. In our clinic, it's instead of 00:06:02.839 --> 00:06:04.899 2 ,000 or 3 ,000 patients per doctor, it's under 00:06:04.899 --> 00:06:08.389 500. And you have a relationship with one doctor 00:06:08.389 --> 00:06:12.050 who knows you inside and out. For example, your 00:06:12.050 --> 00:06:13.350 first appointment is over an hour and a half 00:06:13.350 --> 00:06:15.810 long. They get to know you. They do a comprehensive 00:06:15.810 --> 00:06:18.290 physical. They run all these tests focused on 00:06:18.290 --> 00:06:21.629 prevention and longevity. You can make same or 00:06:21.629 --> 00:06:23.949 next day appointments in our clinic. They're 00:06:23.949 --> 00:06:25.730 30 minutes to an hour, and they start on time. 00:06:26.610 --> 00:06:28.709 The doctor gives you their cell phones. You can 00:06:28.709 --> 00:06:31.470 call, email, text any time. And you just have 00:06:31.470 --> 00:06:33.910 someone that like, is there for you, whatever 00:06:33.910 --> 00:06:35.649 you need. They're proactively working with you 00:06:35.649 --> 00:06:39.110 to make sure you're healthy. And how did you 00:06:39.110 --> 00:06:42.110 come up with the idea? So being here four and 00:06:42.110 --> 00:06:45.730 a half years in Portugal, I'm a human. I have 00:06:45.730 --> 00:06:48.470 medical issues sometimes. And like, yeah, I was 00:06:48.470 --> 00:06:50.689 just dealing with some things and getting a bit 00:06:50.689 --> 00:06:53.389 frustrated with the lack of attention I was getting 00:06:53.389 --> 00:06:56.110 from doctors. Sometimes after the appointment, 00:06:56.250 --> 00:06:58.889 you know, follow up questions or if you're taking 00:06:58.889 --> 00:07:00.649 any medicine, the doctor, you need to follow 00:07:00.649 --> 00:07:04.100 up with the doctor. I was just not able to go 00:07:04.100 --> 00:07:06.500 through this process in a way that I found acceptable. 00:07:06.560 --> 00:07:09.240 I was complaining to my parents and my parents 00:07:09.240 --> 00:07:10.980 were like, Tyler, you're a professional. Why 00:07:10.980 --> 00:07:12.839 don't you get a concierge doctor? You know, we 00:07:12.839 --> 00:07:15.319 both have concierge doctors here in Florida. 00:07:15.980 --> 00:07:17.240 You should get one. And I'm like, yeah, of course. 00:07:17.259 --> 00:07:20.000 That sounds great. I'm going to sign up immediately. 00:07:20.339 --> 00:07:22.259 And I started researching concierge medicine 00:07:22.259 --> 00:07:25.779 here and I couldn't find anybody doing it. And 00:07:25.779 --> 00:07:28.740 after that I was like, okay, well, you know, 00:07:28.740 --> 00:07:30.459 I learned a bit about the business model. I really 00:07:30.459 --> 00:07:33.930 became very fascinated by the incentive model 00:07:33.930 --> 00:07:37.790 of the business as well. And we decided to launch 00:07:37.790 --> 00:07:39.790 one here in Portugal. And we're really, it's 00:07:39.790 --> 00:07:43.009 going great at this point. Nice. Did you, you 00:07:43.009 --> 00:07:44.850 know, comparing with the companies you launched 00:07:44.850 --> 00:07:46.990 in the US, how hard was it to actually launch 00:07:46.990 --> 00:07:48.870 a company in Portugal? It's been difficult to 00:07:48.870 --> 00:07:51.250 build a business here. There's a lot of bureaucracy. 00:07:52.490 --> 00:07:55.889 Service providers tend to move a bit slower, 00:07:56.550 --> 00:07:59.129 less of a pressing priority for a lot of things. 00:07:59.529 --> 00:08:02.649 So yeah, I mean in the US, You can incorporate 00:08:02.649 --> 00:08:06.430 a business in 15 minutes on the internet and 00:08:06.430 --> 00:08:10.310 open up a bank account shortly afterwards. Where 00:08:10.310 --> 00:08:14.269 in Portugal, there's just a lot more details 00:08:14.269 --> 00:08:17.750 that need to be addressed through the entire 00:08:17.750 --> 00:08:19.569 process. I know the Portuguese government is 00:08:19.569 --> 00:08:21.170 spending a lot of time and effort right now trying 00:08:21.170 --> 00:08:23.110 to simplify a lot of these things, and I expect 00:08:23.110 --> 00:08:25.850 that to be how things continue, but it's a bit 00:08:25.850 --> 00:08:29.230 more challenging than my previous experiences. 00:08:30.250 --> 00:08:32.330 Interesting. You know, in terms of investment 00:08:32.330 --> 00:08:34.970 and finding investment, was that something you 00:08:34.970 --> 00:08:37.049 did for your business right now or you're self 00:08:37.049 --> 00:08:39.470 -funding the business? Yeah, so previous businesses, 00:08:39.730 --> 00:08:44.070 we've raised financing, millions of dollars and 00:08:44.070 --> 00:08:46.309 going into this business, we were very deliberate 00:08:46.309 --> 00:08:48.809 about picking a business that would be cash flow 00:08:48.809 --> 00:08:51.889 positive early on, that didn't require a ton 00:08:51.889 --> 00:08:55.909 of capital, that could grow as large as we want 00:08:55.909 --> 00:08:58.409 it to be. So for example, if we want to keep 00:08:58.409 --> 00:09:01.190 it a small business, It could be a profitable, 00:09:01.190 --> 00:09:03.070 healthy business where we take care of everybody. 00:09:03.490 --> 00:09:05.169 But at the same time, if we just want to keep 00:09:05.169 --> 00:09:07.009 growing or if we start growing quickly and we 00:09:07.009 --> 00:09:09.730 want to raise money, we can. So at this point, 00:09:09.870 --> 00:09:13.389 we are self -financed through our other ventures. 00:09:13.889 --> 00:09:16.929 And we're not opposed to taking money on. I mean, 00:09:16.929 --> 00:09:19.610 it's not a bad thing. A few of us on the team 00:09:19.610 --> 00:09:21.690 invest in other businesses, but we just want 00:09:21.690 --> 00:09:25.870 the optionality and also the ability to control, 00:09:25.870 --> 00:09:28.830 have a tightly held business at this point. Interesting 00:09:28.830 --> 00:09:30.769 and you know, what are your plans for the future 00:09:30.769 --> 00:09:33.690 for the business? Yeah, I mean right now the 00:09:33.690 --> 00:09:36.009 focus is just building a healthy business I mean, 00:09:36.049 --> 00:09:38.009 it's not not only is it a business that's focused 00:09:38.009 --> 00:09:40.330 on health, but we want a business where we pay 00:09:40.330 --> 00:09:43.750 people really well Where people obviously the 00:09:43.750 --> 00:09:46.090 first two years of a startup you have to bust 00:09:46.090 --> 00:09:49.529 your butt really make things happen, but We want 00:09:49.529 --> 00:09:52.870 a business where we can respect people's lifestyles 00:09:52.870 --> 00:09:55.230 And we're not building a lifestyle business. 00:09:55.230 --> 00:09:58.309 I heard a expression recently which was a dividend 00:09:58.309 --> 00:10:01.090 business. So lifestyle business is like the small 00:10:01.090 --> 00:10:03.149 one where you just kind of relax and you work 00:10:03.149 --> 00:10:05.690 a couple hours a day. Everyone's trying to go 00:10:05.690 --> 00:10:07.269 after these unicorn businesses where you need 00:10:07.269 --> 00:10:09.370 to exit for hundreds of millions of dollars for 00:10:09.370 --> 00:10:12.230 your investors to even be happy. Where a dividend 00:10:12.230 --> 00:10:15.730 business is a business that can grow at its own 00:10:15.730 --> 00:10:19.110 pace. It pays all the principles. People evolve 00:10:19.110 --> 00:10:23.909 very well. You know, our target is to grow across 00:10:23.909 --> 00:10:26.769 all of Portugal. We know we can have a very healthy, 00:10:27.070 --> 00:10:28.850 profitable business where we take care of our 00:10:28.850 --> 00:10:33.509 employees and our patients and doctors. But if 00:10:33.509 --> 00:10:36.570 we want to keep growing, hopefully we will have 00:10:36.570 --> 00:10:39.830 the option at that point. Nice. It seems like 00:10:39.830 --> 00:10:42.429 the future is bright. I mean, what feedback are 00:10:42.429 --> 00:10:46.210 you getting from both doctors and actual people 00:10:46.210 --> 00:10:49.529 using the service? Yeah. So on the doctor side, 00:10:49.629 --> 00:10:51.789 I mean, at the end of the day, we are in the 00:10:51.789 --> 00:10:54.970 business of having happy doctors. We have happy 00:10:54.970 --> 00:10:56.950 doctors. The doctors will do an amazing job at 00:10:56.950 --> 00:11:00.049 taking care of the patients. And so right now, 00:11:00.210 --> 00:11:01.850 most doctors, when you hear about it, it's not 00:11:01.850 --> 00:11:03.809 just in Portugal. Doctors are overworked. They 00:11:03.809 --> 00:11:06.889 have too many patients. And so with the concierge 00:11:06.889 --> 00:11:09.570 model, I guess there's two major innovations. 00:11:10.629 --> 00:11:15.389 One is that the doctors, instead of running and 00:11:15.389 --> 00:11:17.570 rushing through the day, they can walk through 00:11:17.570 --> 00:11:20.210 their day. On busy days, they're still focused 00:11:20.210 --> 00:11:23.440 on patient care all the time. But they actually 00:11:23.440 --> 00:11:26.539 get a chance to be doctors and spend time with 00:11:26.539 --> 00:11:28.720 patients and get to know them and get to know 00:11:28.720 --> 00:11:30.940 their life story and their history and have this 00:11:30.940 --> 00:11:34.580 relationship. And most doctors went to med school 00:11:34.580 --> 00:11:36.120 not to make a lot of money. They went to med 00:11:36.120 --> 00:11:39.240 school to take care of people. And so the doctors 00:11:39.240 --> 00:11:43.299 absolutely love this model as well because they 00:11:43.299 --> 00:11:45.059 get to do what they're really passionate about. 00:11:46.279 --> 00:11:48.759 And then also with the doctors, we split the 00:11:48.759 --> 00:11:51.289 subscription revenue with the doctors. So the 00:11:51.289 --> 00:11:53.690 doctors incentives, so it's not a fee per service. 00:11:54.309 --> 00:11:56.789 Most doctors right now get paid based on the 00:11:56.789 --> 00:11:59.289 volume of patients they see, where in concierge 00:11:59.289 --> 00:12:01.970 medicine, because there's this rev share component, 00:12:03.110 --> 00:12:05.129 the doctors are incentivized to keep patients 00:12:05.129 --> 00:12:07.409 happy and healthy. So there's this like really 00:12:07.409 --> 00:12:11.649 nice blend between the two. And then on the patient 00:12:11.649 --> 00:12:14.840 side, I mean, we've been told Pretty much every 00:12:14.840 --> 00:12:16.460 single patient we've had has told us it's the 00:12:16.460 --> 00:12:17.879 best health care experience They've ever had 00:12:17.879 --> 00:12:20.080 in Portugal that they've never had a doctor spend 00:12:20.080 --> 00:12:22.980 as much time with them They care about them and 00:12:22.980 --> 00:12:25.480 the whole system of being able to just chat and 00:12:25.480 --> 00:12:28.059 text with the doctor after the appointments and 00:12:28.059 --> 00:12:30.679 make quick appointments it's just a breath of 00:12:30.679 --> 00:12:34.879 fresh air that allows people to really Go deep 00:12:34.879 --> 00:12:38.179 and have that have those things that kind of 00:12:38.179 --> 00:12:40.740 been bugging them for a long time addressed in 00:12:40.740 --> 00:12:44.690 an iterative fashion that Listen to trust. Makes 00:12:44.690 --> 00:12:46.570 sense because so many times I remember going 00:12:46.570 --> 00:12:49.529 to the doctor and then being prescribed something 00:12:49.529 --> 00:12:51.769 and then not being able to give feedback on that 00:12:51.769 --> 00:12:53.929 prescription because this is it. This is the 00:12:53.929 --> 00:12:55.909 final word that you always need to follow the 00:12:55.909 --> 00:12:58.350 doctor's instructions, but actually they might 00:12:58.350 --> 00:13:01.230 not be right. So you might need to get some feedback 00:13:01.230 --> 00:13:02.570 and actually go back to the doctor. Hey, can 00:13:02.570 --> 00:13:04.610 we change this? Can we adapt that? But then that's 00:13:04.610 --> 00:13:06.450 another point we need to book and then you need 00:13:06.450 --> 00:13:08.659 to schedule something else. If you're not doing 00:13:08.659 --> 00:13:10.720 your private healthcare, it's an absolute nightmare 00:13:10.720 --> 00:13:14.019 to get that that affects us, isn't it? Yeah, 00:13:14.200 --> 00:13:16.039 I think like, we like to think about like healthcare 00:13:16.039 --> 00:13:20.340 3 .0, right, which is adding in the lifestyle 00:13:20.340 --> 00:13:23.500 components, adding in the root cause analysis 00:13:23.500 --> 00:13:26.419 components. And it's like, it's not just about 00:13:26.419 --> 00:13:28.620 drugs and treatment, it's about understanding 00:13:28.620 --> 00:13:31.120 the person as a whole. I mean, you might have 00:13:31.120 --> 00:13:33.139 a problem with your knee. and you go to the knee 00:13:33.139 --> 00:13:35.860 doctor and they do this particular thing with 00:13:35.860 --> 00:13:37.799 your knee, but if the doctor doesn't have the 00:13:37.799 --> 00:13:39.940 time to really look into it, maybe it's your 00:13:39.940 --> 00:13:44.720 back. Maybe your back's a little bit off. Maybe 00:13:44.720 --> 00:13:46.799 you have some stomach issues and the doctors 00:13:46.799 --> 00:13:49.639 like take this stomach medication, but really 00:13:49.639 --> 00:13:52.639 maybe it's a diet adjustment or maybe it's something 00:13:52.639 --> 00:13:54.919 that if you had the time to work through it with 00:13:54.919 --> 00:13:57.460 somebody, you could really figure out what that 00:13:57.460 --> 00:13:59.700 root cause is. That's where the basis for longevity 00:13:59.700 --> 00:14:02.960 and prevention and having a a fulfilling lifestyle, 00:14:03.139 --> 00:14:06.860 life is being able to address the issues at the 00:14:06.860 --> 00:14:09.480 root cause as opposed to just treating symptoms. 00:14:10.019 --> 00:14:12.580 Yeah. If you could fix something, I guess, in 00:14:12.580 --> 00:14:14.919 the Portuguese ecosystem, what would you fix? 00:14:15.059 --> 00:14:19.679 Question. I feel like from an entrepreneurship 00:14:19.679 --> 00:14:22.080 standpoint, a lot of times when I talk to other 00:14:22.080 --> 00:14:24.639 entrepreneurs about ideas, I feel like people 00:14:24.639 --> 00:14:27.220 very much, it needs to be like all or nothing, 00:14:28.080 --> 00:14:31.309 where if the idea isn't taking over the world 00:14:31.309 --> 00:14:35.070 in a billion -dollar business, it's not exciting. 00:14:35.769 --> 00:14:38.629 Or as well as if someone else is doing it, that 00:14:38.629 --> 00:14:41.490 means they can't do it. Where I think in the 00:14:41.490 --> 00:14:43.529 United States, there's very much the idea of 00:14:43.529 --> 00:14:46.649 the pie gets bigger, the more you build, and 00:14:46.649 --> 00:14:48.409 you don't need to build a billion -dollar business. 00:14:48.629 --> 00:14:49.889 I mean, if we build a billion -dollar business, 00:14:50.009 --> 00:14:53.190 that'd be great, but most businesses that are 00:14:53.190 --> 00:14:56.070 successful, that earn money for people and have 00:14:56.070 --> 00:14:59.830 happy, healthy people working there, There are 00:14:59.830 --> 00:15:01.850 small businesses or their medium -sized businesses 00:15:01.850 --> 00:15:05.190 and so I think that's a completely reasonable 00:15:05.190 --> 00:15:10.710 goal is to go after businesses that are of whatever 00:15:10.710 --> 00:15:15.649 size they get to and then on the Other people 00:15:15.649 --> 00:15:18.690 are doing it side. I mean, I think that's how 00:15:18.690 --> 00:15:20.769 innovation happens often it's competition. It's 00:15:20.769 --> 00:15:23.149 like hey these people are doing it let's let's 00:15:23.149 --> 00:15:28.049 just try to do a better version of it and some 00:15:28.049 --> 00:15:30.149 experiences I've had with people and I think 00:15:30.149 --> 00:15:32.809 that as more entrepreneurship and innovation 00:15:32.809 --> 00:15:36.409 happens, that mindset will also shift. You know, 00:15:36.429 --> 00:15:38.049 when you're building all these businesses, I'm 00:15:38.049 --> 00:15:40.269 sure you come across really dark moments and 00:15:40.269 --> 00:15:43.549 hard times. How do you overcome them? And what 00:15:43.549 --> 00:15:45.870 advice would actually give to people going through 00:15:45.870 --> 00:15:48.070 them right now? Yeah, that's a great question. 00:15:48.549 --> 00:15:51.470 So, you know, I advise some other startups in 00:15:51.470 --> 00:15:53.190 the consulting business as well. We work with 00:15:53.190 --> 00:15:55.919 early stage businesses quite a lot. And I think 00:15:55.919 --> 00:15:59.320 people are just surprised when they hit these 00:15:59.320 --> 00:16:04.580 existential threats in the startup journey. And 00:16:04.580 --> 00:16:07.500 people just, oh my God, it's the end of the world. 00:16:07.799 --> 00:16:09.980 We have this thing and if it doesn't get resolved, 00:16:10.120 --> 00:16:13.279 it's the end of the business. Why is this happening 00:16:13.279 --> 00:16:17.259 to me? This never happens to anyone else. I feel 00:16:17.259 --> 00:16:21.940 like anytime you start an organization is innovative, 00:16:22.159 --> 00:16:24.019 you're going to hit a couple of existential threats 00:16:24.019 --> 00:16:28.000 along the way. And really just kind of to say, 00:16:28.059 --> 00:16:30.740 hey, this is normal. This is expected. Let's 00:16:30.740 --> 00:16:33.679 figure out a way to move through it and not becoming 00:16:33.679 --> 00:16:37.580 panicked or wrecked about it. I think that's 00:16:37.580 --> 00:16:42.200 a very reasonable approach. I also think just 00:16:42.200 --> 00:16:44.340 like mental health, just having a network of 00:16:44.340 --> 00:16:48.100 friends, potentially doing therapy, having ways 00:16:48.100 --> 00:16:50.600 to kind of reflect on things is really important. 00:16:50.620 --> 00:16:52.919 And it's not talked enough in the entrepreneurship 00:16:52.919 --> 00:16:55.639 community. where a lot of entrepreneurs I know, 00:16:55.779 --> 00:16:57.360 including myself, when I did my first business, 00:16:57.860 --> 00:17:01.440 I just go, go, go all the time. And so when these 00:17:01.440 --> 00:17:04.740 dark moments happen and you haven't really built 00:17:04.740 --> 00:17:07.440 a infrastructure around you that can support 00:17:07.440 --> 00:17:12.299 you, it gets very challenging where if you have 00:17:12.299 --> 00:17:14.680 people that are experienced or people that know 00:17:14.680 --> 00:17:16.660 you well, you can have these conversations and 00:17:16.660 --> 00:17:21.390 relate to them. Get a lot more perspective on 00:17:21.390 --> 00:17:22.849 things that are happening because oftentimes 00:17:22.849 --> 00:17:25.150 startup challenges seem like you're the only 00:17:25.150 --> 00:17:27.390 person that's ever gone through it when in reality 00:17:27.390 --> 00:17:30.190 It's like anything in life in reality a lot of 00:17:30.190 --> 00:17:31.869 people have experienced it. Maybe they have some 00:17:31.869 --> 00:17:34.890 perspective that can help out Do you have like 00:17:34.890 --> 00:17:37.589 a group a good support group that has a lot of 00:17:37.589 --> 00:17:39.250 entrepreneurs or it's just people that actually 00:17:39.250 --> 00:17:41.670 do completely random things? Yeah, it's funny. 00:17:41.670 --> 00:17:44.250 I feel like here in Portugal We've developed 00:17:44.250 --> 00:17:46.769 a community of friends that are all doing very 00:17:46.769 --> 00:17:49.700 exciting things and interesting projects, but 00:17:49.700 --> 00:17:54.819 the group didn't form around those projects, 00:17:55.319 --> 00:17:57.180 kind of formed more organically around relationships 00:17:57.180 --> 00:17:59.599 and being friends. And then as we all got to 00:17:59.599 --> 00:18:01.539 know each other better, we're like, oh, wow, 00:18:01.559 --> 00:18:05.480 we're all doing really interesting things in 00:18:05.480 --> 00:18:08.160 our professional careers. But even if that's 00:18:08.160 --> 00:18:11.039 not your case, I feel like people can go foster 00:18:11.039 --> 00:18:13.900 this. There's so many entrepreneurship meetups. 00:18:14.909 --> 00:18:16.730 people that just like talking about things, even 00:18:16.730 --> 00:18:18.190 if they're not entrepreneurs, a lot of people 00:18:18.190 --> 00:18:21.490 that work in larger companies like to talk about 00:18:21.490 --> 00:18:24.150 this stuff and participate in it. And if you 00:18:24.150 --> 00:18:27.569 want to foster this community, I very much do 00:18:27.569 --> 00:18:30.990 so. I'm always curious on one thing. What was 00:18:30.990 --> 00:18:34.250 the biggest cultural shock you had? Because you 00:18:34.250 --> 00:18:37.210 were in Portugal just amongst the pandemic, right? 00:18:37.269 --> 00:18:38.950 So it's not really the best time because everything 00:18:38.950 --> 00:18:42.609 was shut off or shut down. So how was the biggest 00:18:42.609 --> 00:18:47.019 shock you had? I think the most challenging thing 00:18:47.019 --> 00:18:51.500 is to slow down the expectations on how products 00:18:51.500 --> 00:18:57.519 are going to get done. And a lot of services 00:18:57.519 --> 00:18:59.660 and things that you need, expecting it to take 00:18:59.660 --> 00:19:03.700 a couple tries. If your AC is broken, it might 00:19:03.700 --> 00:19:07.799 not get fixed the first time they visit. And 00:19:07.799 --> 00:19:11.279 coming from the US, which is just like, go, go, 00:19:11.299 --> 00:19:14.059 go. both professionally and personally. I mean, 00:19:14.079 --> 00:19:17.519 it's easy to get very frustrated in that situation, 00:19:17.519 --> 00:19:22.940 but I feel like it's also been a healthy and 00:19:22.940 --> 00:19:27.400 refreshing shift in my personal development where 00:19:27.400 --> 00:19:30.099 I've said, okay, it's just gonna take some time. 00:19:30.319 --> 00:19:35.160 It doesn't need to be done right now. And yeah, 00:19:35.279 --> 00:19:36.900 it's just part of the culture a lot of times 00:19:36.900 --> 00:19:39.660 here, so. Interesting, yeah, because it's always... 00:19:39.680 --> 00:19:42.640 I know everyone I talk to and they actually have 00:19:42.640 --> 00:19:44.059 the same thing and I have this problem every 00:19:44.059 --> 00:19:46.180 time I go back to Portugal, which is I'm on the 00:19:46.180 --> 00:19:48.740 go go go mode and then everyone else is very 00:19:48.740 --> 00:19:52.700 slow and I just start driving me nuts. Like why 00:19:52.700 --> 00:19:55.259 isn't this done straight away? Why are they taking 00:19:55.259 --> 00:19:57.079 so long to service at the restaurant something 00:19:57.079 --> 00:19:59.200 like that? It just drives me nuts. But then I 00:19:59.200 --> 00:20:01.380 get okay, I'm thinking like someone who lives 00:20:01.380 --> 00:20:03.640 in the big city. So every time I come back, okay, 00:20:03.880 --> 00:20:07.720 slow down a bit because people just chill. I 00:20:07.720 --> 00:20:10.789 feel like Half our way between the two is a healthy 00:20:10.789 --> 00:20:13.690 approach. I don't want it to take five times 00:20:13.690 --> 00:20:17.450 to get my refrigerator fixed, but I also don't 00:20:17.450 --> 00:20:20.130 need to be just a crazy person and be like, hey, 00:20:20.150 --> 00:20:22.210 this needs to get done within an hour. There's 00:20:22.210 --> 00:20:26.250 a blend between those two spots that is a good 00:20:26.250 --> 00:20:29.430 place to be in. What was the biggest challenge 00:20:29.430 --> 00:20:32.109 you had in Taj Mahal when you were building it? 00:20:33.390 --> 00:20:37.779 I think we expected this, but It took longer 00:20:37.779 --> 00:20:39.819 than we expected this one part, which was just 00:20:39.819 --> 00:20:43.859 recruiting an amazing doctor, our first concierge 00:20:43.859 --> 00:20:47.380 doctor, which is I think culturally, Portugal 00:20:47.380 --> 00:20:49.099 people tend to be a little bit more risk adverse. 00:20:49.619 --> 00:20:51.599 And then on top of that, Larry and doctors being 00:20:51.599 --> 00:20:57.539 a bit risk adverse. And so there's the fact that 00:20:57.539 --> 00:21:00.400 we're pitching this new model to a doctor that 00:21:00.400 --> 00:21:03.259 we want them to join a early stage business. 00:21:03.420 --> 00:21:04.440 I don't even want to call it a startup because 00:21:04.440 --> 00:21:08.289 it is a service business at the other day. We're 00:21:08.289 --> 00:21:10.769 at the same time, we want to find the best people. 00:21:11.089 --> 00:21:13.650 I mean, we're building a new business and we're 00:21:13.650 --> 00:21:16.309 focused on delivering the best care we can in 00:21:16.309 --> 00:21:20.269 this country. And so we needed a doctor that 00:21:20.269 --> 00:21:24.349 wanted to join that was technically skilled as 00:21:24.349 --> 00:21:27.710 a practitioner, but also a huge part of this 00:21:27.710 --> 00:21:30.410 business is building relationships with patients. 00:21:30.809 --> 00:21:33.349 So they also need that relationship component, 00:21:33.349 --> 00:21:36.859 which Took us a bit of time to find the right 00:21:36.859 --> 00:21:39.980 person and our current doctor. Dr. Louisa Batista 00:21:39.980 --> 00:21:44.660 is amazing She checks all the boxes and everybody 00:21:44.660 --> 00:21:48.299 is obsessed with her. That's either Do you have 00:21:48.299 --> 00:21:49.980 how many doctors you have in a platform? I mean 00:21:49.980 --> 00:21:53.000 obviously It won't be it doesn't need to be a 00:21:53.000 --> 00:21:55.099 crazy number because then they can service quite 00:21:55.099 --> 00:21:58.119 a lot of people but roughly Yeah, we just launched 00:21:58.119 --> 00:22:00.380 two months ago. So we have one time concierge 00:22:00.380 --> 00:22:03.769 doctor And we also have a nurse who's also amazing 00:22:03.769 --> 00:22:07.390 together. I mean, we give them the time to serve 00:22:07.390 --> 00:22:10.289 their patients and really be there for whatever 00:22:10.289 --> 00:22:13.210 they need. Interesting. And how, you know, the 00:22:13.210 --> 00:22:15.009 feedback you're getting from patients and stuff. 00:22:16.150 --> 00:22:18.069 I know you already told me what they're saying, 00:22:18.369 --> 00:22:20.990 but do they share the word with their friends 00:22:20.990 --> 00:22:22.789 and they say, hey, actually start doing this 00:22:22.789 --> 00:22:24.599 because it actually works really well? Yeah, 00:22:24.680 --> 00:22:26.740 yeah. I mean, half of our customers at this point 00:22:26.740 --> 00:22:28.839 have been referrals and this is just early on. 00:22:29.119 --> 00:22:31.079 So like right now the challenge is just getting 00:22:31.079 --> 00:22:34.299 in front of more people because it's a unique 00:22:34.299 --> 00:22:38.099 model that people typically don't have experience 00:22:38.099 --> 00:22:40.700 with, especially here in Portugal. So there's 00:22:40.700 --> 00:22:44.339 a bit of education, but typically after somebody 00:22:44.339 --> 00:22:48.039 has their first comprehensive exam, the first 00:22:48.039 --> 00:22:50.119 one, like people are just like, oh my God, like 00:22:50.119 --> 00:22:53.079 this, this is, I've never had somebody spend 00:22:53.079 --> 00:22:55.490 so much time really learning about me in addressing 00:22:55.490 --> 00:22:59.910 things that are typically overlooked. I mean, 00:23:00.009 --> 00:23:01.490 it's completely different because normally, I 00:23:01.490 --> 00:23:03.470 think they just give you, they kind of patch 00:23:03.470 --> 00:23:04.910 you up, isn't it? You go to the doctors, they 00:23:04.910 --> 00:23:06.670 give you some medicine. Okay, you're good to 00:23:06.670 --> 00:23:08.529 go. But actually, maybe the problem is a lot 00:23:08.529 --> 00:23:10.210 deeper than that. And then they actually need 00:23:10.210 --> 00:23:11.950 to spend some time with you and really analyze 00:23:11.950 --> 00:23:14.450 it well. But yeah, it's not the doctor's fault. 00:23:16.069 --> 00:23:18.910 It's easy to blame doctors that are spending 00:23:18.910 --> 00:23:22.539 15 minutes with you. But you know, they're Income 00:23:22.539 --> 00:23:24.940 model is tied to volume of patients. They see 00:23:24.940 --> 00:23:30.079 insurance reimburses there's not a system that 00:23:30.079 --> 00:23:33.539 that encourages prevention and personalized health 00:23:33.539 --> 00:23:36.759 care and Working with people to make sure that 00:23:36.759 --> 00:23:39.920 they their root causes are addressed. I Think 00:23:39.920 --> 00:23:41.180 what we've seen in the United States because 00:23:41.180 --> 00:23:43.380 we've studied the market really extensively which 00:23:43.380 --> 00:23:45.940 is that you end up saving money even though we're 00:23:45.940 --> 00:23:48.059 a premium service and we charge a monthly fee 00:23:48.059 --> 00:23:51.829 that is higher than most people have paid for 00:23:51.829 --> 00:23:57.029 other healthcare services. The end result is 00:23:57.029 --> 00:23:58.849 it saves you money and time in the long run. 00:23:59.069 --> 00:24:03.349 And most importantly, you have a better, you're 00:24:03.349 --> 00:24:05.349 healthier and you can enjoy your life and your 00:24:05.349 --> 00:24:08.990 time better. Interesting. You know, in the Seoul 00:24:08.990 --> 00:24:10.769 ecosystem, what do you think about the city of 00:24:10.769 --> 00:24:12.509 Lisbon like overall? Do you think it's buzzing, 00:24:12.650 --> 00:24:15.470 not buzzing? What do you think? Ah, Lisbon's 00:24:15.470 --> 00:24:35.930 the best. It's just a lot of Well, that's all 00:24:35.930 --> 00:24:38.250 right. We always do it in English anyway, so. 00:24:42.670 --> 00:24:44.349 It's really unfortunate because I feel like there's 00:24:44.349 --> 00:24:48.109 a lot of frustration with the amount of change 00:24:48.109 --> 00:24:51.289 that's happening in Lisbon because a lot of people 00:24:51.289 --> 00:24:54.529 that are living here, there's things that are 00:24:54.529 --> 00:24:57.109 missing to protect people that currently have 00:24:57.109 --> 00:25:00.690 their lives here. At the same time, I think you're 00:25:00.690 --> 00:25:02.730 seeing the same trend in most major cities around 00:25:02.730 --> 00:25:06.480 the world, the rise in remote work has led people 00:25:06.480 --> 00:25:10.299 to move to cities where there's either a price 00:25:10.299 --> 00:25:13.720 arbitrage or there's just a high quality of life 00:25:13.720 --> 00:25:17.539 in the particular city. And so, you know, I don't 00:25:17.539 --> 00:25:21.180 think that that is specific to Lisbon, even though 00:25:21.180 --> 00:25:23.039 when you're living there, I mean, it feels like 00:25:23.039 --> 00:25:26.319 that's the experience. I'm curious on one thing, 00:25:26.420 --> 00:25:28.759 you know, a lot of people say they want to move 00:25:28.759 --> 00:25:31.700 to the US to do business. Now, you have the experience 00:25:31.700 --> 00:25:33.440 of doing business in the US and doing business 00:25:33.440 --> 00:25:35.859 also in Europe and Portugal. Do you think that's 00:25:35.859 --> 00:25:38.059 relevant? Like, does it actually come a stage 00:25:38.059 --> 00:25:39.819 where as a business owner, as an entrepreneur, 00:25:39.900 --> 00:25:41.640 you actually should move to another country? 00:25:42.059 --> 00:25:43.619 Or quite on the contrary, you can always find 00:25:43.619 --> 00:25:46.319 what you need in the country you're at. I think 00:25:46.319 --> 00:25:49.480 it comes down to your personal objectives and 00:25:49.480 --> 00:25:50.799 the type of business that you want to build. 00:25:51.839 --> 00:25:53.940 I mean, there's no doubt that the US has the 00:25:53.940 --> 00:25:57.400 best infrastructure today to build early stage 00:25:57.400 --> 00:26:02.769 businesses at scale. has so many vendors that 00:26:02.769 --> 00:26:07.349 are very US Pacific that can support your journey 00:26:07.349 --> 00:26:09.690 of building the business. You have massive investor 00:26:09.690 --> 00:26:12.950 community, 350 million people that have high 00:26:12.950 --> 00:26:21.029 buying power. It's a huge market, right? But 00:26:21.029 --> 00:26:27.920 it's also hyper competitive. A lot of times, 00:26:27.940 --> 00:26:29.319 if you want to build a business, at least that 00:26:29.319 --> 00:26:34.339 scale. A, it's easier to do it there. But at 00:26:34.339 --> 00:26:36.319 the same time, you might, as I said, there's 00:26:36.319 --> 00:26:39.640 a lot of competition. Where being in a smaller 00:26:39.640 --> 00:26:42.000 country like Portugal or Europe or any other 00:26:42.000 --> 00:26:45.700 country, there's a lot of country and cultural 00:26:45.700 --> 00:26:48.819 specific, both challenges and opportunities. 00:26:50.440 --> 00:26:52.720 This business that we're building objectives 00:26:52.720 --> 00:26:57.609 is a higher margin, lower volume. business. So 00:26:57.609 --> 00:27:01.430 being in a country of 10 million people, we can 00:27:01.430 --> 00:27:03.470 create economic opportunity for us and for people 00:27:03.470 --> 00:27:08.289 we work with, thinking through what we can build 00:27:08.289 --> 00:27:13.170 here in a way that will work for us. But I think 00:27:13.170 --> 00:27:14.930 it also comes down to what lifestyle you want. 00:27:15.170 --> 00:27:18.069 I mean, I think if you want to just do the startup 00:27:18.069 --> 00:27:21.299 grind and hustle and You really bust your ass 00:27:21.299 --> 00:27:23.980 to build something, take over the world, live 00:27:23.980 --> 00:27:27.400 in New York or the Bay Area. Great places to 00:27:27.400 --> 00:27:30.440 do it, probably as well as London. But if you 00:27:30.440 --> 00:27:34.380 want to have more of a chill lifestyle, yeah, 00:27:34.380 --> 00:27:38.299 Portugal provides that in many ways. Interesting. 00:27:38.480 --> 00:27:40.539 Yeah, because I think a lot of people talk to, 00:27:40.660 --> 00:27:42.000 they always want to grow and they want to grow 00:27:42.000 --> 00:27:43.700 in the US, but I don't think they realize what 00:27:43.700 --> 00:27:45.680 it takes to actually grow the business there. 00:27:45.920 --> 00:27:47.839 Because like I said, it's super competitive. 00:27:48.559 --> 00:27:50.660 And it's it takes a lot for me, right? It's not 00:27:50.660 --> 00:27:52.240 just something you could just chill. Oh, I'm 00:27:52.240 --> 00:27:54.200 going to finish at five o 'clock. No, you're 00:27:54.200 --> 00:27:56.440 not going to continue working until you get stuff 00:27:56.440 --> 00:27:59.099 done. So that's that's a bit of a lifestyle change 00:27:59.099 --> 00:28:02.759 for a lot of people. Yeah, definitely. And I 00:28:02.759 --> 00:28:05.380 think in the United States, people just identify 00:28:05.380 --> 00:28:08.339 so much with their work as part of who they are. 00:28:09.119 --> 00:28:11.559 And it just that's the culture. Yeah, it's not 00:28:11.559 --> 00:28:12.799 it's not that it's right or wrong. It's just 00:28:12.799 --> 00:28:16.390 that is different. Yeah. What about the taxes? 00:28:16.589 --> 00:28:18.750 I'm always curious because you did move to a 00:28:18.750 --> 00:28:21.470 country that has a higher taxation overall. So 00:28:21.470 --> 00:28:26.329 how, how does that feel like? Hmm. I mean, if 00:28:26.329 --> 00:28:30.529 you're earning a lot of money in the United States, 00:28:31.410 --> 00:28:34.390 the tax bracket is pretty similar to what a higher 00:28:34.390 --> 00:28:37.829 income Portuguese taxes are. Okay. Right now, 00:28:37.829 --> 00:28:40.069 you know, we're building this business. I'm trying 00:28:40.069 --> 00:28:41.650 to figure out as an American, as an American, 00:28:41.690 --> 00:28:45.789 I'm taxed both countries regardless. So I'm just 00:28:45.789 --> 00:28:48.869 currently working with our tax account to try 00:28:48.869 --> 00:28:51.710 to figure out how do we structure things correctly. 00:28:52.130 --> 00:28:55.849 Yeah, I mean, I do feel like taxes in Portugal 00:28:55.849 --> 00:29:01.089 are complicated and make it difficult to... One 00:29:01.089 --> 00:29:03.349 of the issues I run into here is it's not that 00:29:03.349 --> 00:29:05.950 the taxes aren't justified or too high, as much 00:29:05.950 --> 00:29:08.569 as that it's difficult to understand them and 00:29:08.569 --> 00:29:12.509 move through the process. In the US also, but 00:29:12.509 --> 00:29:14.329 for a corporation specifically, they're a lot 00:29:14.329 --> 00:29:17.019 more simple. and personal taxes are always complicated. 00:29:18.960 --> 00:29:21.059 But I don't know, you can't just need taxes. 00:29:21.980 --> 00:29:24.519 I'm always curious because when people think, 00:29:24.539 --> 00:29:27.039 for example, they want to open a business, there's 00:29:27.039 --> 00:29:29.279 a couple of states that always spring to mind, 00:29:29.599 --> 00:29:31.440 right? Florida being one of them, then Texas, 00:29:31.539 --> 00:29:33.380 and obviously Delaware, because they normally 00:29:33.380 --> 00:29:35.900 have lower taxes. And I was curious to understand, 00:29:36.160 --> 00:29:38.220 like, when you move to Europe, you always end 00:29:38.220 --> 00:29:40.240 up paying a lot more taxes when compared to those 00:29:40.240 --> 00:29:43.519 other states, in this case, in the US. So that's 00:29:43.519 --> 00:29:45.829 what I'm curious about. Like how big of a shock 00:29:45.829 --> 00:29:49.289 was that? When we built this business, it was 00:29:49.289 --> 00:29:51.809 expected that we were going to pay for cheese 00:29:51.809 --> 00:29:54.529 taxes. So, you know, I think when you think through 00:29:54.529 --> 00:29:56.069 the model and you think through the opportunity, 00:29:56.170 --> 00:29:58.670 that's part of just figuring out what you're 00:29:58.670 --> 00:30:03.269 going through. Yeah, I think both countries' 00:30:04.109 --> 00:30:06.329 taxes are pretty high and not suggesting that 00:30:06.329 --> 00:30:08.630 they should be lower, but that's a political 00:30:08.630 --> 00:30:11.650 discussion that... Yeah, those are different 00:30:11.650 --> 00:30:16.259 podcasts, but... Well, it's especially being 00:30:16.259 --> 00:30:18.259 an American where you're required to file in 00:30:18.259 --> 00:30:20.240 both countries and pay taxes. Both countries 00:30:20.240 --> 00:30:22.700 just makes it quite complicated and something 00:30:22.700 --> 00:30:24.920 that needs to be very deliberately addressed 00:30:24.920 --> 00:30:27.460 early on if you're doing entrepreneurship outside 00:30:27.460 --> 00:30:30.220 the United States. And if something goes wrong, 00:30:30.339 --> 00:30:32.940 the Marines come in and save you. So it's not 00:30:32.940 --> 00:30:37.500 all that bad. All right. Tali, if people want 00:30:37.500 --> 00:30:39.180 to reach out to you and find more about Tejamet, 00:30:39.339 --> 00:30:41.779 how can they do so? Yeah, sure. I mean, you can 00:30:41.779 --> 00:30:47.519 check out our website at tejomed .com. You can 00:30:47.519 --> 00:30:51.319 find me on LinkedIn, Tyler Gordon, also Tyler 00:30:51.319 --> 00:30:55.839 at tejomed .com. I'm always happy to talk about 00:30:55.839 --> 00:30:59.220 entrepreneurship and other startups. I do a bit 00:30:59.220 --> 00:31:02.599 of angel investing as well. And just like to 00:31:02.599 --> 00:31:04.519 work with people that are doing amazing things 00:31:04.519 --> 00:31:09.359 and sharing things. Sounds good. Tyler, thank 00:31:09.359 --> 00:31:11.059 you so much for your time. I appreciate it. Yeah, 00:31:11.059 --> 00:31:35.490 thanks so much, Ricardo. from grants to investors 00:31:35.490 --> 00:31:37.650 to tips and tricks on how to be successful in 00:31:37.650 --> 00:31:40.390 your startup. This podcast is also sponsored 00:31:40.390 --> 00:31:43.990 by ODEV Tech. ODEV Tech is your premier software 00:31:43.990 --> 00:31:45.869 development partner. Make sure you check them 00:31:45.869 --> 00:31:48.650 out at odev .tech.