WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.859 Welcome to the Innovation Conversation, a podcast 00:00:02.859 --> 00:00:05.419 about innovators, both in business and real life. 00:00:05.879 --> 00:00:08.380 Hosted by myself, Ricardo Rescual and Harry McCona. 00:00:08.500 --> 00:00:11.699 This podcast is also sponsored by ODEV Tech. 00:00:12.439 --> 00:00:14.640 ODEV Tech is your premier software development 00:00:14.640 --> 00:00:17.940 partner. Make sure you check them out at odev 00:00:17.940 --> 00:00:22.399 .tech. The podcast is also sponsored by Notion 00:00:22.399 --> 00:00:25.379 .so. Notion is offering six months for free for 00:00:25.379 --> 00:00:27.839 new users. Make sure you check out our website, 00:00:28.039 --> 00:00:30.559 thestoreofevents .co .uk to read in the software. 00:00:30.859 --> 00:00:33.159 Hi, and welcome to another episode of The Innovation 00:00:33.159 --> 00:00:35.740 Conversation. Today we are joined by Luís Valente. 00:00:35.840 --> 00:00:38.200 Luís, welcome. It's a pleasure to be here, Hikaru. 00:00:38.240 --> 00:00:41.100 Thanks so much for having me. It's a pleasure. 00:00:41.320 --> 00:00:43.359 Luís, you have an absolutely fascinating story 00:00:43.359 --> 00:00:44.939 behind you, so I'll let you introduce yourself 00:00:44.939 --> 00:00:49.380 to the audience. Yeah, so I'm Luís. I serve as 00:00:49.380 --> 00:00:52.140 CEO of ILOF, background in engineering, trained 00:00:52.140 --> 00:00:54.920 as a computer scientist, but... spent most of 00:00:54.920 --> 00:00:57.960 my life working elsewhere. In the last couple 00:00:57.960 --> 00:01:01.899 of years, I felt absolutely drawn and passionate 00:01:01.899 --> 00:01:05.000 about one of the biggest health care challenges 00:01:05.000 --> 00:01:07.920 of our times, which is scaling work -right health 00:01:07.920 --> 00:01:10.040 care and effective health care to the masses. 00:01:10.659 --> 00:01:13.099 So I've been working on a deep tech health tech 00:01:13.099 --> 00:01:15.709 company which is based in the UK, in Portugal 00:01:15.709 --> 00:01:18.890 and in the US. And we've been accelerating the 00:01:18.890 --> 00:01:21.930 arrival of personalized therapeutics to hopefully 00:01:21.930 --> 00:01:24.489 millions of patients around the globe. I was 00:01:24.489 --> 00:01:26.390 having a look at ILOF. It's absolutely fascinating 00:01:26.390 --> 00:01:28.769 what you guys do. How do you get started? Cause 00:01:28.769 --> 00:01:30.569 this is, you know, you have a background in computing 00:01:30.569 --> 00:01:32.129 engineering and now you're doing something completely 00:01:32.129 --> 00:01:36.269 different. So how did that come to be? So first 00:01:36.269 --> 00:01:38.909 of all, I think we fell in love with the problem. 00:01:39.519 --> 00:01:43.200 So this is not the case for a lot of entrepreneurs 00:01:43.200 --> 00:01:46.480 where they fall in love with the father. That's 00:01:46.480 --> 00:01:48.579 not our case. We fell in love with the problem. 00:01:48.799 --> 00:01:52.040 We really realized that 10 years ago, 15 years 00:01:52.040 --> 00:01:55.980 ago, there were really high expectations for 00:01:55.980 --> 00:01:58.280 the impact that personalized medicine would have 00:01:58.280 --> 00:02:01.859 on every person's everyday lives. And the reality 00:02:01.859 --> 00:02:05.299 is that if you ask a room full of people, like 00:02:05.299 --> 00:02:07.400 a hundred people in an auditorium, how many of 00:02:07.400 --> 00:02:09.840 them did a genetic test in their lifetime? You'll 00:02:09.840 --> 00:02:11.639 realize that it's actually not a lot of people. 00:02:12.479 --> 00:02:15.400 And this was not the expectation 10, 15 years 00:02:15.400 --> 00:02:17.939 ago. And what we realized is that there were 00:02:17.939 --> 00:02:19.939 clear problems. So there are problems around 00:02:19.939 --> 00:02:21.879 the way we collect this data. There were problems 00:02:21.879 --> 00:02:25.620 around the way that we process this data. And 00:02:25.620 --> 00:02:29.259 it's still hard, quite hard to connect personalized 00:02:29.259 --> 00:02:32.840 healthcare information at scale. and create models 00:02:32.840 --> 00:02:37.639 that can actually change healthcare. So in 2019, 00:02:39.439 --> 00:02:42.280 together with a couple other co -founders, I 00:02:42.280 --> 00:02:46.319 realized that there was a clear opportunity to 00:02:46.319 --> 00:02:49.840 take a technology to market that would tackle 00:02:49.840 --> 00:02:52.939 the need for more data sources, for better data 00:02:52.939 --> 00:02:56.240 sources. Over the course of around 10 weeks, 00:02:56.379 --> 00:02:59.960 we interviewed 100 global experts, stakeholders, 00:03:01.039 --> 00:03:05.620 CEOs of biotechs, farmers, feasible investigators. 00:03:06.400 --> 00:03:09.620 And after those 10 weeks, we had around 12 letters 00:03:09.620 --> 00:03:17.759 of intent that validated the need to work with 00:03:17.759 --> 00:03:20.659 us and the need in the market for a product like 00:03:20.659 --> 00:03:24.560 ours. And yeah, that's pretty much how ILOF was 00:03:24.560 --> 00:03:29.319 born. Uh, we're now a team of close to 30, uh, 00:03:29.319 --> 00:03:31.379 balance that in three countries. And, uh, yeah, 00:03:31.379 --> 00:03:33.539 we raised around 10 million so far. Did you get 00:03:33.539 --> 00:03:37.039 started in Portugal or in the UK? Yeah. So technically 00:03:37.039 --> 00:03:41.060 we got started in both cases and I'll tell you 00:03:41.060 --> 00:03:44.840 why. So, um, we, uh, our first investor was a 00:03:44.840 --> 00:03:47.900 German and, um, and we started our operations 00:03:47.900 --> 00:03:50.620 in the UK and Oxford. So we actually started 00:03:50.620 --> 00:03:53.439 our operations in the Oxford university accelerator, 00:03:53.659 --> 00:03:56.419 which was the Oxford Foundry. But our German 00:03:56.419 --> 00:03:59.900 investor didn't really want to take the risk 00:03:59.900 --> 00:04:03.659 that Brexit would bring. And they were like, 00:04:03.740 --> 00:04:05.939 okay, of course, you're a British company. You're 00:04:05.939 --> 00:04:09.479 operating in the UK and all your operations are 00:04:09.479 --> 00:04:12.139 there. But I would prefer if the legal structure 00:04:12.139 --> 00:04:16.660 is outside of a Brexit location. And so we created 00:04:16.660 --> 00:04:20.300 a company in Portugal. Years later, when we closed 00:04:20.300 --> 00:04:22.720 our first round and when we brought two American 00:04:22.720 --> 00:04:26.959 investors in, we ended up uh, pivoting and bringing 00:04:26.959 --> 00:04:30.680 also the legal operation into the UK. So yeah, 00:04:30.699 --> 00:04:32.980 that's why I say that technically we kind of 00:04:32.980 --> 00:04:35.959 started in the UK and in Portugal at the same 00:04:35.959 --> 00:04:38.680 time. So this, this is actually quite interesting 00:04:38.680 --> 00:04:40.160 because I talk with a lot of people and they 00:04:40.160 --> 00:04:41.980 always have, if they're in the UK, they have 00:04:41.980 --> 00:04:44.019 the ambition to go to Europe or the U S and if 00:04:44.019 --> 00:04:45.240 they're in Portugal, obviously they want to go 00:04:45.240 --> 00:04:47.399 to the UK or the U S. So you've actually been 00:04:47.399 --> 00:04:50.139 in all these three different markets. So where 00:04:50.139 --> 00:04:51.899 do you think it's best suited to actually start 00:04:51.899 --> 00:04:54.040 a company? because you've had this experience 00:04:54.040 --> 00:04:56.600 for your life, you raised 10 million, so you 00:04:56.600 --> 00:05:00.680 know exactly how to do. So for the scenario where 00:05:00.680 --> 00:05:03.879 I might be biased, so I was born in Portugal, 00:05:04.639 --> 00:05:08.139 so I'm not already disclosing my vision, but 00:05:08.139 --> 00:05:10.459 I was born in Portugal, so I might be biased 00:05:10.459 --> 00:05:13.439 towards the European ecosystem to the Portuguese 00:05:13.439 --> 00:05:15.620 ecosystem. That's point one, and point two, I 00:05:15.620 --> 00:05:17.620 think it really depends. So I don't think the 00:05:17.620 --> 00:05:20.199 best place to start an AI company is the best 00:05:20.199 --> 00:05:22.980 place to start. A medtech company is the best 00:05:22.980 --> 00:05:26.220 place to start. At clinical trials, enabling 00:05:26.220 --> 00:05:28.939 companies, it's the best place to start a crypto 00:05:28.939 --> 00:05:32.100 or fintech company. It really depends on the 00:05:32.100 --> 00:05:35.120 type of business. In our case, we're a deep tech 00:05:35.120 --> 00:05:37.720 health tech company and as a deep tech health 00:05:37.720 --> 00:05:40.519 tech company, it was important to be number one 00:05:40.519 --> 00:05:44.240 close to talent. So again, this is deep tech. 00:05:44.279 --> 00:05:46.959 This is really damn hard, hard in my French, 00:05:47.000 --> 00:05:49.639 but it's really complicated. You need to bring 00:05:49.639 --> 00:05:52.870 in profiles. uh, that wouldn't necessarily work 00:05:52.870 --> 00:05:56.990 together. Data scientists, physicists, biologists, 00:05:57.050 --> 00:05:59.850 and you need to get all of this speaking together 00:05:59.850 --> 00:06:03.110 and, and getting something to actually create 00:06:03.110 --> 00:06:05.990 value for the third party on a daily basis. And 00:06:05.990 --> 00:06:09.009 so you need, you need a pool of talent. Second, 00:06:09.170 --> 00:06:11.350 it's important that you are in an ecosystem that 00:06:11.350 --> 00:06:15.209 actually values deep tech because the past toolkit 00:06:15.209 --> 00:06:19.110 is longer, to be very honest, non dilutive funding. 00:06:19.339 --> 00:06:23.480 in terms of either tenders or grants or are important 00:06:23.480 --> 00:06:25.920 in deep tech businesses. So that's point number 00:06:25.920 --> 00:06:28.620 two. And point number three, just overall, just 00:06:28.620 --> 00:06:30.920 regulatory framework. And again, these are just 00:06:30.920 --> 00:06:34.500 three points that kind of make the answer to 00:06:34.500 --> 00:06:37.399 your question vary. In our specific case, I do 00:06:37.399 --> 00:06:41.660 believe that potentially at this point, and even 00:06:41.660 --> 00:06:44.740 Portugal might be a good place to be in the sense 00:06:44.740 --> 00:06:48.160 of financing wise. So there's a lot of capital 00:06:48.160 --> 00:06:50.339 for R &D in Europe right now. There's a lot of 00:06:50.339 --> 00:06:53.040 capital for R &D in Portugal right now. Talent 00:06:53.040 --> 00:06:55.699 wise, I would say potentially you're better off 00:06:55.699 --> 00:06:59.279 in the US or in the UK. And certification wise, 00:06:59.480 --> 00:07:02.139 you're certainly better off in the US. No doubt 00:07:02.139 --> 00:07:04.699 about it. So I think it's always going to be 00:07:04.699 --> 00:07:07.259 a trade off in the end. I mean, as long as you're 00:07:07.259 --> 00:07:10.720 able to assemble a group of talented dedicated 00:07:10.720 --> 00:07:13.040 people you should be. I'm curious. So you, you 00:07:13.040 --> 00:07:15.560 mentioned when you got started, you first interviewed 00:07:15.560 --> 00:07:17.300 a couple of people, a hundred people you said, 00:07:17.360 --> 00:07:20.259 and then 10 of them actually wrote a letter of 00:07:20.259 --> 00:07:22.879 intent afterwards. So I guess what were the biggest 00:07:22.879 --> 00:07:24.439 challenges you had in the beginning? Cause this 00:07:24.439 --> 00:07:26.560 is a brand new idea and also the application, 00:07:26.680 --> 00:07:29.040 this is a, you know, very creative, a brand new 00:07:29.040 --> 00:07:30.879 way of doing things. So what were the main challenges 00:07:30.879 --> 00:07:33.660 you had to overcome? So various, and again, creating 00:07:33.660 --> 00:07:36.259 a startup is hard, creating a deep tech startup 00:07:36.259 --> 00:07:38.879 is hard. Creating a deep tech startup in the 00:07:38.879 --> 00:07:41.399 health tech space is way harder. Number one, 00:07:41.540 --> 00:07:44.139 you need to create goodwill. You need to create 00:07:44.139 --> 00:07:46.860 an army of goodwill. One of our investors, when 00:07:46.860 --> 00:07:49.019 they invested in Ilove, they were like, you know 00:07:49.019 --> 00:07:51.279 what, Luis, you were early at the time. They 00:07:51.279 --> 00:07:53.360 were like, okay, you were early. Maybe you don't 00:07:53.360 --> 00:07:56.339 have everything figured it out. But every person 00:07:56.339 --> 00:08:01.639 that I speak to around you, like partners, customers, 00:08:02.040 --> 00:08:04.939 competitors, other VCs, other investors, every 00:08:04.939 --> 00:08:08.639 person I speak to, which knows you, they all 00:08:08.639 --> 00:08:10.740 say the same thing, which is, we're not sure, 00:08:11.060 --> 00:08:13.220 maybe they'll need to pivot, whatever, but I 00:08:13.220 --> 00:08:16.199 want to help. They're a smart bunch of people. 00:08:16.420 --> 00:08:19.680 They're tackling a big mission. They're pursuing 00:08:19.680 --> 00:08:24.420 like a big impactful goal. I want to help. And 00:08:24.420 --> 00:08:26.579 this kind of goodwill, creating this kind of 00:08:26.579 --> 00:08:28.939 goodwill is hard. I wouldn't say it's a challenge, 00:08:29.139 --> 00:08:33.320 it's just hard. And I believe that as founder, 00:08:33.600 --> 00:08:37.080 I remember that when we were starting the company 00:08:37.080 --> 00:08:42.419 in 2019, we were part of a small bootcamp, small 00:08:42.419 --> 00:08:45.000 entrepreneurship bootcamp. And one of the mentors 00:08:45.000 --> 00:08:47.320 that were there, he mentioned, okay, when you're 00:08:47.320 --> 00:08:49.120 starting, you don't have anything, you don't 00:08:49.120 --> 00:08:51.039 have money, you don't have a space, you don't 00:08:51.039 --> 00:08:52.860 have an office, you don't have equipment, but 00:08:52.860 --> 00:08:55.100 there's one thing that you have. And that thing 00:08:55.100 --> 00:08:57.600 is salespeople. And the salespeople is you, right? 00:08:57.740 --> 00:08:59.820 The founders, right? That's the only thing you 00:08:59.820 --> 00:09:02.820 have, it's salespeople. So I always saw my position 00:09:02.820 --> 00:09:07.059 in the company very much as the advocate, the 00:09:07.059 --> 00:09:09.840 strongest, biggest, and the more clear advocate 00:09:09.840 --> 00:09:12.220 for the solution. And I would say making sure 00:09:12.220 --> 00:09:16.080 to create a group of people, either internally 00:09:16.080 --> 00:09:20.039 companies or internally talent employees or... 00:09:20.090 --> 00:09:23.690 team or externally with partners, with clients, 00:09:23.970 --> 00:09:25.809 just creating a group of people that believes 00:09:25.809 --> 00:09:27.809 in your vision and that believes you can do it. 00:09:28.110 --> 00:09:30.149 I think this is one of the hardest things, but 00:09:30.149 --> 00:09:31.769 there's many more. I was wondering, you know, 00:09:31.889 --> 00:09:33.929 when you approach all these investors and they 00:09:33.929 --> 00:09:36.529 give you that feedback, was it hard to get more 00:09:36.529 --> 00:09:38.789 investors on board or was it actually you just 00:09:38.789 --> 00:09:41.509 took it as it is and you just say that, you know 00:09:41.509 --> 00:09:42.909 what, I'm going to prove you wrong, I'm going 00:09:42.909 --> 00:09:44.750 to prove I can do this and I'm just going to 00:09:44.750 --> 00:09:47.870 make this company super successful. I think it's 00:09:47.870 --> 00:09:50.090 a little bit like dating. It's a numbers game. 00:09:50.629 --> 00:09:53.350 Though I've been with the same partner for most 00:09:53.350 --> 00:09:55.529 of my life, certainly most of my adult life, 00:09:56.049 --> 00:09:58.289 but a lot of people say, I can't speak firsthand, 00:09:58.289 --> 00:10:00.529 I guess, but a lot of people, they compare the 00:10:00.529 --> 00:10:03.090 dating game and the Tinder game to fundraising 00:10:03.090 --> 00:10:05.750 because it's going to be a numbers game, right? 00:10:05.950 --> 00:10:08.029 I mean, you need to scroll, God knows how many 00:10:08.029 --> 00:10:10.389 Tinder profiles to get a match. And then out 00:10:10.389 --> 00:10:14.070 of these matches, 50 % are going to ghost you. 00:10:14.509 --> 00:10:17.779 And then, yes, sorry. No worries, we can stop. 00:10:18.480 --> 00:10:22.059 It shows a little bit. It's really a numbers 00:10:22.059 --> 00:10:25.240 game. It's going to certainly be a numbers game. 00:10:27.419 --> 00:10:29.799 And all you need to do is you need to make sure 00:10:29.799 --> 00:10:32.000 that you have a big enough pipeline in the beginning. 00:10:32.960 --> 00:10:36.179 You need to make sure that you have a relevant 00:10:36.179 --> 00:10:38.740 pipeline, not just a big pipeline, but a relevant 00:10:38.740 --> 00:10:41.759 pipeline in the beginning. And then when you 00:10:41.759 --> 00:10:44.460 get to the point where you see that you have 00:10:44.460 --> 00:10:46.659 a handful of investors, they are a good fit, 00:10:46.659 --> 00:10:49.200 you need to know how to close. And you know that 00:10:49.200 --> 00:10:51.960 famous phrase, always be closing. So you need 00:10:51.960 --> 00:10:54.200 to close and you need to create a sense of urgency. 00:10:55.159 --> 00:10:58.379 I was reading your profile and I noticed Forbes 00:10:58.379 --> 00:11:01.000 30 in the 30s. So how did that happen? Did they 00:11:01.000 --> 00:11:03.279 reach out to you? Did you apply for it? How did 00:11:03.279 --> 00:11:07.240 the whole thing work? Someone nominated me. So 00:11:07.240 --> 00:11:10.879 I've been nominated by It might've been a jury 00:11:10.879 --> 00:11:13.600 member, it might've been someone I know, they 00:11:13.600 --> 00:11:16.279 don't really disclosure it, but it was a nice, 00:11:16.379 --> 00:11:18.340 a lot of people like that. He helps me with the 00:11:18.340 --> 00:11:21.320 goodwill part and he helps open a couple of doors. 00:11:21.720 --> 00:11:24.860 Yeah, it's just one of those things that you, 00:11:24.860 --> 00:11:28.419 I guess, are happy about and then you continue 00:11:28.419 --> 00:11:31.059 with your life. But yeah, thank you for mentioning 00:11:31.059 --> 00:11:33.799 it. Do they have like a special badge to give 00:11:33.799 --> 00:11:35.740 out or a special card where like you want to 00:11:35.740 --> 00:11:37.759 go to a busy restaurant? Hey, I got this business 00:11:37.759 --> 00:11:40.340 card. Forbes 30 and the 30, I need to get in. 00:11:40.559 --> 00:11:42.919 They do organize a couple of exclusive events. 00:11:43.159 --> 00:11:47.000 They do give you a badge, but I don't think I 00:11:47.000 --> 00:11:50.139 ever use it. They give you a digital and then 00:11:50.139 --> 00:11:53.799 like a real badge. I don't think I've ever used 00:11:53.799 --> 00:11:58.299 that. So they give you like a, not a badge, but 00:11:58.299 --> 00:12:05.039 they give you like a diploma of some sort, certification 00:12:05.039 --> 00:12:08.759 or something like that. Yeah, but I don't think 00:12:08.759 --> 00:12:11.559 so. I do mention it on social media. That's mostly 00:12:11.559 --> 00:12:14.139 because again, it helps creating this goodwill 00:12:14.139 --> 00:12:17.139 because basically what he said is that the problem 00:12:17.139 --> 00:12:19.299 I was working with was big enough and hopefully 00:12:19.299 --> 00:12:22.059 I was doing a decent job, but more like the problem 00:12:22.059 --> 00:12:25.419 I was trying to tackle was big enough that it 00:12:25.419 --> 00:12:27.940 deserved to be noticed by Forbes. That's what 00:12:27.940 --> 00:12:30.460 he means to me. It's a huge problem. So how does 00:12:30.460 --> 00:12:33.429 the whole thing work exactly? So you kind of 00:12:33.429 --> 00:12:35.409 mentioned briefly, I'm very curious to fully 00:12:35.409 --> 00:12:39.850 understand the process. So we know we're an AI 00:12:39.850 --> 00:12:41.830 first company. We collect very large amounts 00:12:41.830 --> 00:12:44.870 of data. We train AI models and then we deliver 00:12:44.870 --> 00:12:48.490 and deploy solutions that help select the right 00:12:48.490 --> 00:12:51.549 patients for each clinical study. The way it 00:12:51.549 --> 00:12:54.909 works is that we have a physical and digital 00:12:55.080 --> 00:12:58.539 component on our solution. Physical is basically 00:12:58.539 --> 00:13:01.340 sensors that allow us to collect data on biological 00:13:01.340 --> 00:13:05.139 fluids and that can be easily deployed. And then 00:13:05.139 --> 00:13:07.799 the platform, which is basically where the most 00:13:07.799 --> 00:13:10.059 of the value is, is where we integrate really, 00:13:10.059 --> 00:13:13.279 really very large quantities of data, not just 00:13:13.279 --> 00:13:18.179 from our own sensors, but also from other sensors. 00:13:18.460 --> 00:13:21.100 Yeah. And then create models that can identify 00:13:21.100 --> 00:13:23.200 the patient that is more likely to respond to 00:13:23.200 --> 00:13:25.070 a certain treatment. So you don't actually make, 00:13:25.470 --> 00:13:26.730 obviously, I'm just trying to explain this to 00:13:26.730 --> 00:13:30.210 the audience. So you select what treatment they 00:13:30.210 --> 00:13:32.450 got a better response to respond to. And then 00:13:32.450 --> 00:13:33.950 based on that, you tell the doctors, look, this 00:13:33.950 --> 00:13:35.470 is what we think that you should give them as 00:13:35.470 --> 00:13:37.649 treatment because they're going to have. Well, 00:13:37.850 --> 00:13:40.049 we do it mostly within the scope of clinical 00:13:40.049 --> 00:13:43.570 trials right now. So we do it mostly within the 00:13:43.570 --> 00:13:46.190 scope of what is the patient that is going to 00:13:46.190 --> 00:13:48.710 be more prone to react well to this treatment, 00:13:49.250 --> 00:13:51.190 try to get these treatments approved, try to 00:13:51.190 --> 00:13:53.789 get them in the market and then. Once they are 00:13:53.789 --> 00:13:56.049 in the market, of course, the aim is to be able 00:13:56.049 --> 00:13:58.409 to then tell the right or tell to the patient, 00:13:58.470 --> 00:14:02.370 which is the right treatment for him. I mean, 00:14:02.549 --> 00:14:05.649 is the future something that, or in the future, 00:14:05.769 --> 00:14:07.190 will we have something where you go to the doctor, 00:14:07.309 --> 00:14:09.490 the doctor tests, there's a simple blood test 00:14:09.490 --> 00:14:11.909 using your solution. And then they realized, 00:14:12.289 --> 00:14:13.970 actually, I shouldn't really prescribe you, I'm 00:14:13.970 --> 00:14:15.409 going to give a very basic example. I shouldn't 00:14:15.409 --> 00:14:16.929 really prescribe you paracetamol because you 00:14:16.929 --> 00:14:18.870 don't respond well to it. to a year semester 00:14:18.870 --> 00:14:21.269 is like, is that going to be in the future? Absolutely. 00:14:21.610 --> 00:14:24.029 That's the vision. The vision is that the same 00:14:24.029 --> 00:14:26.350 way that when you go to a clothes shop, you ask 00:14:26.350 --> 00:14:28.509 for a t -shirt, they're going to ask you your 00:14:28.509 --> 00:14:31.549 size, right? Are you an M size? Are you an XL 00:14:31.549 --> 00:14:34.029 size? And if you are like giving a t -shirt at 00:14:34.029 --> 00:14:36.149 random, let's say you're an M size and you're 00:14:36.149 --> 00:14:38.570 giving an XL, you're going to put it on and it's 00:14:38.570 --> 00:14:40.509 not going to fit you, but you're not going to 00:14:40.509 --> 00:14:42.470 say it's broken. You're not going to say it's 00:14:42.470 --> 00:14:44.409 weird. You're just going to say, no, I like t 00:14:44.409 --> 00:14:46.570 -shirts, just not my size. But to date, this 00:14:46.570 --> 00:14:48.639 is not what happens in medicine. You go to the 00:14:48.639 --> 00:14:51.299 doctor or you go on a clinical trial and then 00:14:51.299 --> 00:14:53.019 you test the medication. And then if it doesn't 00:14:53.019 --> 00:14:55.940 work, they'll just assume the medication is worthless 00:14:55.940 --> 00:14:58.700 and it just doesn't work. And in other cases, 00:14:58.720 --> 00:15:00.519 that's not the case. It works. It just doesn't 00:15:00.519 --> 00:15:03.240 work for everyone. It just doesn't work for everyone 00:15:03.240 --> 00:15:05.440 that has the same disease. And what we're fighting 00:15:05.440 --> 00:15:08.200 is that there's going to be more and more treatments 00:15:08.200 --> 00:15:10.759 that will only work on a subset of the population. 00:15:11.360 --> 00:15:14.220 And this subset of the population is going to 00:15:14.220 --> 00:15:17.299 have to be defined via phenotyping and triaging 00:15:17.299 --> 00:15:22.519 tools such as... Interesting. It's a good example 00:15:22.519 --> 00:15:24.039 where that could actually work saying, hey, this 00:15:24.039 --> 00:15:25.580 medicine does not work for you at all, so then 00:15:25.580 --> 00:15:29.220 you can try. And you have perhaps an even stronger 00:15:29.220 --> 00:15:31.840 example with COVID, right? I mean, people reacting 00:15:31.840 --> 00:15:34.960 very differently to the disease, but people also 00:15:34.960 --> 00:15:37.080 reacting very differently to the vaccine, right? 00:15:37.179 --> 00:15:42.220 Some people got fully immune and then the vaccine 00:15:42.220 --> 00:15:44.799 worked wonders and with some others they just... 00:15:44.879 --> 00:15:48.419 It did almost nothing to increase that immunity. 00:15:49.080 --> 00:15:52.399 And in others, it was even causing very serious 00:15:52.399 --> 00:15:55.860 side effects. And we saw that at scale with more 00:15:55.860 --> 00:15:59.019 or less the same vaccines. And again, people 00:15:59.019 --> 00:16:02.639 having very, very strong and different reactions. 00:16:03.460 --> 00:16:05.799 This already happens in various other diseases, 00:16:05.879 --> 00:16:08.860 including Alzheimer's. So in Alzheimer's in the 00:16:08.860 --> 00:16:11.679 last 20 years, there's been potentially over 00:16:11.679 --> 00:16:15.149 400 clinical trials that failed. And they didn't 00:16:15.149 --> 00:16:17.850 fail because all of these medications were worthless. 00:16:18.029 --> 00:16:20.710 They failed because the disease is very heterogeneous 00:16:20.710 --> 00:16:23.250 and the way that the patient reacts to a certain 00:16:23.250 --> 00:16:25.610 treatment is very different from the way that 00:16:25.610 --> 00:16:27.690 another Alzheimer's patient reacts to the same 00:16:27.690 --> 00:16:31.049 treatment. And if you don't have tools that can 00:16:31.049 --> 00:16:33.730 select your right shirt size, then these drugs 00:16:33.730 --> 00:16:36.529 are never going to be approved. And that's what 00:16:36.529 --> 00:16:39.590 I love is taking the mark. Is there any limitations 00:16:39.590 --> 00:16:42.820 in terms of your solution? Is there any case 00:16:42.820 --> 00:16:44.340 where you say, actually we can all work with 00:16:44.340 --> 00:16:46.879 this type of drugs or that type of disease, or 00:16:46.879 --> 00:16:48.639 it actually works for everything? So first of 00:16:48.639 --> 00:16:51.700 all, the big limitation is data, right? So again, 00:16:52.039 --> 00:16:54.940 everyone used, so normally it's said in the AI, 00:16:55.179 --> 00:16:56.820 right? And in data science, which is garbage 00:16:56.820 --> 00:17:00.240 in, garbage out, right? So you need to have data 00:17:00.240 --> 00:17:03.179 sets, enough well -connectedized data sets that 00:17:03.179 --> 00:17:06.960 you teach your algorithms how to look for specific 00:17:06.960 --> 00:17:09.519 profiles, specific features within these profiles. 00:17:09.789 --> 00:17:12.329 If you can't acquire good data sets, then you're 00:17:12.329 --> 00:17:14.069 doomed. Then you're never going to get there. 00:17:14.410 --> 00:17:16.569 Then of course, there's going to be diseases 00:17:16.569 --> 00:17:18.990 that are more... So we look at biological fluids 00:17:18.990 --> 00:17:20.809 and there's going to be diseases that are more 00:17:20.809 --> 00:17:23.069 easy to detect in biological fluids than others. 00:17:23.490 --> 00:17:25.289 So for example, one of the reasons why we're 00:17:25.289 --> 00:17:27.970 working in neurogenetic diseases is exactly because 00:17:27.970 --> 00:17:31.329 it's hard. It's a lot easier to detect traces 00:17:31.329 --> 00:17:34.349 of infectious diseases in biological fluids than 00:17:34.349 --> 00:17:38.930 to detect traces of Alzheimer's or even depression. 00:17:39.529 --> 00:17:42.869 Yeah, but at this point, it's a path. So I can't 00:17:42.869 --> 00:17:45.349 tell you exactly which ones we are competent 00:17:45.349 --> 00:17:48.589 and which ones we perform less. I can tell you 00:17:48.589 --> 00:17:50.869 that we currently are developing on a couple 00:17:50.869 --> 00:17:54.809 of areas, including oncology with ovarian cancer, 00:17:55.150 --> 00:17:57.309 neuro generative with Alzheimer's and a couple 00:17:57.309 --> 00:18:01.109 others. And we believe that tools like ILOF and 00:18:01.109 --> 00:18:03.930 others are actually going to make an impact on 00:18:03.930 --> 00:18:06.470 quite an array of diseases and are going to be 00:18:06.470 --> 00:18:08.529 making personalized medicine available for the 00:18:08.529 --> 00:18:11.420 masses. You think, so you operate in quite a 00:18:11.420 --> 00:18:13.000 lot of markets. I know you're expanding to the 00:18:13.000 --> 00:18:16.119 U .S. Do you think it's, it's not that it's easy. 00:18:16.240 --> 00:18:18.819 Do you think there's less regulation or they're 00:18:18.819 --> 00:18:21.059 more open to implementing this type of technology 00:18:21.059 --> 00:18:23.339 in one market compared with the other? Or it's 00:18:23.339 --> 00:18:26.640 all pretty much the same? No, there is a cultural 00:18:26.640 --> 00:18:29.799 aspect and there are cultural barriers. I think 00:18:29.799 --> 00:18:32.480 it goes without saying that U .S. is certainly 00:18:32.480 --> 00:18:35.420 a good place for innovation. It's especially 00:18:35.420 --> 00:18:38.269 a good place to sell innovation. Either it's 00:18:38.269 --> 00:18:40.670 a good place to develop innovation or not. There's 00:18:40.670 --> 00:18:42.970 conflicting opinions, but I don't think no one 00:18:42.970 --> 00:18:45.009 disagrees that it's the best place in the world 00:18:45.009 --> 00:18:48.769 to sell and deploy innovation. And people, institutions 00:18:48.769 --> 00:18:52.430 are very open to try out. The percentage of early 00:18:52.430 --> 00:18:55.210 adopters is a lot higher. And one of the things 00:18:55.210 --> 00:18:58.750 that you feel in the US is the tolerance to mistakes, 00:18:59.089 --> 00:19:02.619 the tolerance to failure. So the tolerance for 00:19:02.619 --> 00:19:04.660 failure in the US is a lot higher than in the 00:19:04.660 --> 00:19:07.720 UK, right? Even in the UK, and certainly mainland 00:19:07.720 --> 00:19:10.059 Europe. So I'll give you an example. If you fail 00:19:10.059 --> 00:19:13.539 in Germany, you're a disgrace. You don't know 00:19:13.539 --> 00:19:15.920 what you're doing. You should go home and cry 00:19:15.920 --> 00:19:18.839 and rethink. If you bankrupt the company, then 00:19:18.839 --> 00:19:22.240 you're absolutely a disgrace. If you bankrupt 00:19:22.240 --> 00:19:24.740 the company in the US, you learned something. 00:19:25.240 --> 00:19:28.319 And you might be even more likely to get hired 00:19:28.319 --> 00:19:31.329 again because you learned how to lower company 00:19:31.329 --> 00:19:33.990 enough that you actually then throw it to the 00:19:33.990 --> 00:19:38.109 ground. And hopefully they'll think, okay, you 00:19:38.109 --> 00:19:39.869 bankrupt the company. Have you learned something? 00:19:39.930 --> 00:19:42.690 Okay, perfect. Don't do it again. And they're 00:19:42.690 --> 00:19:45.769 different in the shift. And that's why you got 00:19:45.769 --> 00:19:48.930 the best market for selling innovation in the 00:19:48.930 --> 00:19:51.410 world. And even regarding venture capital, I 00:19:51.410 --> 00:19:53.190 think it goes without saying that it's by far 00:19:53.190 --> 00:19:54.789 the biggest venture capital market in the world. 00:19:55.049 --> 00:19:57.089 When you moved to the US, did you find that the 00:19:57.089 --> 00:19:59.150 size of the checks of the investors were actually 00:19:59.150 --> 00:20:02.809 getting a lot bigger? Oh, they are. Oh, we have 00:20:02.809 --> 00:20:06.849 a channel. So a civilian portion of our cap table, 00:20:07.170 --> 00:20:10.849 Ricardo, is US investors. So we kind of felt 00:20:10.849 --> 00:20:15.569 that already. And yeah, the scale is different. 00:20:16.369 --> 00:20:18.930 It's just bigger because again, people are willing 00:20:18.930 --> 00:20:21.650 to make more risks, not because private partners, 00:20:21.789 --> 00:20:24.509 and we're speaking pension funds, but not only, 00:20:24.970 --> 00:20:31.140 they're more willing to take risks. What are 00:20:31.140 --> 00:20:35.339 pension schemes in the US? They're mostly stocks. 00:20:36.680 --> 00:20:40.460 They're mostly SP500 and index funds and that's 00:20:40.460 --> 00:20:42.720 it. Then you have an allocation for this, an 00:20:42.720 --> 00:20:44.940 allocation for bonds, an allocation for whatever, 00:20:45.039 --> 00:20:49.240 now even crypto. This I'm sure you've heard, 00:20:49.279 --> 00:20:52.200 there's a big discussion because in the UK, most 00:20:52.200 --> 00:20:54.240 of the pension funds, they don't have an allocation 00:20:54.240 --> 00:20:59.160 to venture capital. They want outsized returns. 00:20:59.400 --> 00:21:03.059 They want to return and to assure that the pension 00:21:03.059 --> 00:21:06.380 money grows with inflation, but they're not willing 00:21:06.380 --> 00:21:10.599 to take risks. And that makes that in the last 00:21:10.599 --> 00:21:12.839 20 years, if you look at the unicorns and if 00:21:12.839 --> 00:21:14.819 you look at the exits and if you look at the 00:21:14.819 --> 00:21:17.339 IPOs in Europe and you look at the IPOs in the 00:21:17.339 --> 00:21:20.099 US, there's no comparison. Because there's just 00:21:20.099 --> 00:21:22.579 a lot more money and it starts with the big money. 00:21:23.099 --> 00:21:25.400 And that's a big difference. Would you tell someone 00:21:25.400 --> 00:21:27.720 who's just getting started actually go to the 00:21:27.720 --> 00:21:30.250 US? spend some money opening up a company in 00:21:30.250 --> 00:21:32.549 Delaware or something like that and just go there 00:21:32.549 --> 00:21:35.089 because there's more money? Or would we actually 00:21:35.089 --> 00:21:36.890 say, you know what, start in the UK and then 00:21:36.890 --> 00:21:39.809 eventually when you get to, you know, Series 00:21:39.809 --> 00:21:42.430 A, then start going for the U .S. for some capital. 00:21:42.670 --> 00:21:45.230 A company in the U .S. just for the sake of opening 00:21:45.230 --> 00:21:48.170 in the U .S. and then be based in the UK. Don't 00:21:48.170 --> 00:21:50.910 do it. Investors are pretty sophisticated and 00:21:50.910 --> 00:21:53.230 everyone will notice if you are local or not, 00:21:53.349 --> 00:21:58.269 if you belong or not. Opening a Delaware C Corp 00:21:58.269 --> 00:22:02.690 is not a silver bullet. If the question is like, 00:22:02.750 --> 00:22:05.829 should you move to the US and build in the US 00:22:05.829 --> 00:22:07.849 and create your team in the US? I'll tell you 00:22:07.849 --> 00:22:10.809 my opinion. I think raising a seed round is as 00:22:10.809 --> 00:22:15.549 hard in the US as it is in Europe, especially 00:22:15.549 --> 00:22:18.609 if you're European. So maybe if you're in the 00:22:18.609 --> 00:22:21.210 US, if you're American, it's a lot, maybe it's 00:22:21.210 --> 00:22:24.170 easier for an American to raise in the US. versus 00:22:24.170 --> 00:22:27.089 an European raising in Europe. But I believe 00:22:27.089 --> 00:22:29.950 that an European raising in the U .S. will have 00:22:29.950 --> 00:22:32.349 such a hard time as an European raising in Europe. 00:22:32.529 --> 00:22:35.609 The difference is going to be valuation and the 00:22:35.609 --> 00:22:38.670 difference is going to be size of the round. 00:22:38.970 --> 00:22:41.250 But I have a strong conviction that if you're 00:22:41.250 --> 00:22:43.609 not an European, then you have no reason to move 00:22:43.609 --> 00:22:45.829 to the U .S. and you don't have U .S. investors 00:22:45.829 --> 00:22:48.119 and you don't have U .S. customers. And you don't 00:22:48.119 --> 00:22:50.519 have a US team and you don't have a US co -founder. 00:22:50.940 --> 00:22:53.660 And for some reason, there's no very strong reason 00:22:53.660 --> 00:22:55.400 why you should build that company in the US. 00:22:56.299 --> 00:22:58.700 Then don't build it. Then stay in Europe until 00:22:58.700 --> 00:23:01.259 Series A and then move to the US when you reach 00:23:01.259 --> 00:23:04.299 Series A stage. All right. That makes sense. 00:23:04.420 --> 00:23:06.539 Cause everyone's like always dreaming about the 00:23:06.539 --> 00:23:08.380 US. Oh, but it's such a huge market. We should 00:23:08.380 --> 00:23:10.460 go there. Well, actually, you know, hold on. 00:23:11.880 --> 00:23:14.119 Once you have product market fit. But not before. 00:23:14.400 --> 00:23:17.079 Luis, I know we're running out of time. If people 00:23:17.079 --> 00:23:18.799 want to reach out to you, how can you do so? 00:23:19.980 --> 00:23:23.500 I'm quite active and LinkedIn, so do feel free 00:23:23.500 --> 00:23:27.099 to reach out to Luis Valen to look me up. I'm 00:23:27.099 --> 00:23:29.779 normally quite responsive. Hopefully if you ping 00:23:29.779 --> 00:23:33.039 me, I'll respond very happy to connect with any 00:23:33.039 --> 00:23:36.299 like -minded entrepreneur, wannabe or current 00:23:36.299 --> 00:23:39.200 founder or just anyone on the tech. or a health 00:23:39.200 --> 00:23:41.160 tech ecosystem. Sounds good. Luis, thank you 00:23:41.160 --> 00:23:43.019 so much for your time. I really appreciate it. 00:23:43.259 --> 00:23:44.819 Thank you so much, Rico. It was really a pleasure. 00:23:45.099 --> 00:23:47.279 The podcast is also sponsored by Notion .so. 00:23:47.740 --> 00:23:49.799 Notion is offering six months for free for new 00:23:49.799 --> 00:23:53.039 users. Make sure you check out our website, thestarupevents 00:23:53.039 --> 00:23:55.720 .co .uk to read them this offer. 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