WEBVTT 00:00:00.040 --> 00:00:02.879 Hi and welcome to another episode of the Innovation 00:00:02.879 --> 00:00:05.679 Conversation. Today we are joined by Anmol Goyal. 00:00:05.980 --> 00:00:08.539 Anmol, welcome. Thanks for having me, Ricardo. 00:00:08.580 --> 00:00:10.660 I really appreciate you. It's a pleasure having 00:00:10.660 --> 00:00:12.400 you here. Anmol, would you like to introduce 00:00:12.400 --> 00:00:15.080 yourself to the audience, please? Yeah, absolutely. 00:00:15.859 --> 00:00:19.679 So in a few words, I am the owner of Gax Limited, 00:00:19.800 --> 00:00:23.339 which is a tech venture builder and our aim is 00:00:23.339 --> 00:00:25.539 to support startups from early stage all the 00:00:25.539 --> 00:00:29.500 way up to scaling stage. and in more sort of 00:00:29.500 --> 00:00:31.620 venture terminology from early seed stage to 00:00:31.620 --> 00:00:34.179 series B, helping them with their development, 00:00:34.659 --> 00:00:37.240 their scale up. So working with them on their 00:00:37.240 --> 00:00:40.020 sales and as well as focusing on their fundraising 00:00:40.020 --> 00:00:42.259 journey. I know you're quite a traveler, right? 00:00:42.320 --> 00:00:44.159 Because you have been to multiple countries, 00:00:44.299 --> 00:00:46.299 you go on multiple events as a speaker as well. 00:00:46.560 --> 00:00:50.100 So how did that whole thing came about? Interestingly 00:00:50.100 --> 00:00:52.799 enough, you know, so all the sort of the traveling 00:00:52.799 --> 00:00:56.060 journeys, they've picked up since March. And 00:00:56.060 --> 00:00:59.359 then that sort of was like my first big event 00:00:59.359 --> 00:01:02.759 in Ibiza. So people always, you know, recently, 00:01:02.899 --> 00:01:04.620 a lot of my friends have been noticing as well. 00:01:04.780 --> 00:01:06.680 And they're like, wow, you know, overnight, you 00:01:06.680 --> 00:01:08.680 traveled out to, you know, seven, eight locations. 00:01:08.859 --> 00:01:11.560 But it's a funny story that no one saw that for, 00:01:11.560 --> 00:01:14.870 you know, the last 18 months. And I was doing 00:01:14.870 --> 00:01:16.950 all the work and I was putting out all the posts. 00:01:17.090 --> 00:01:20.069 I was doing all the sort of the groundwork and 00:01:20.069 --> 00:01:22.129 then now all of a sudden there's that overnight 00:01:22.129 --> 00:01:25.209 success. So it always makes me chuckle. But no, 00:01:25.730 --> 00:01:28.090 I tend to travel out for any sort of events where 00:01:28.090 --> 00:01:30.510 there's need to sort of speak regarding startups, 00:01:30.930 --> 00:01:32.629 regarding innovation, regarding acceleration 00:01:32.629 --> 00:01:35.950 programs. The first one in Ibiza that happened 00:01:35.950 --> 00:01:40.180 in March was the Ibiza Tech Forum. And the founder 00:01:40.180 --> 00:01:43.659 of the forum, he reached out to me because I 00:01:43.659 --> 00:01:46.180 would put out a lot of content regarding startups 00:01:46.180 --> 00:01:49.239 in terms of how they can. reach to investors, 00:01:49.239 --> 00:01:53.359 how they can, you know, effectively work on their 00:01:53.359 --> 00:01:55.659 product market fit, work on sort of their market 00:01:55.659 --> 00:01:58.780 journey and then scale up. And he saw that was 00:01:58.780 --> 00:02:00.519 providing a lot of value and he thought, you 00:02:00.519 --> 00:02:02.359 know, I should be an individual who should come 00:02:02.359 --> 00:02:05.719 and speak at the event, luckily. And from there, 00:02:05.739 --> 00:02:07.480 you know, I met some of the other guys in the 00:02:07.480 --> 00:02:09.930 Spanish ecosystem and then, you know, some of 00:02:09.930 --> 00:02:12.849 the London guys saw that I was speaking at events 00:02:12.849 --> 00:02:15.509 in Spain and were like hey you know we know you're 00:02:15.509 --> 00:02:17.490 from London and you've been going to Spain so 00:02:17.490 --> 00:02:19.710 you might as well come speak in London and then 00:02:19.710 --> 00:02:22.849 from there you know I sort of catapulted and 00:02:22.849 --> 00:02:25.750 speaking at a few more Spanish locations and 00:02:25.750 --> 00:02:27.830 now I've been asked if you know next sort of 00:02:27.830 --> 00:02:31.930 come to a few Latin and countries as well. With 00:02:31.930 --> 00:02:34.379 you you speak Spanish? No really. I can, I can 00:02:34.379 --> 00:02:36.539 speak Spanish. Yeah, I wouldn't say I'm fluent, 00:02:36.539 --> 00:02:40.219 but I would say I'm 80 90%. You know, I can pretty 00:02:40.219 --> 00:02:43.379 much understand everything. Sometimes speaking, 00:02:43.379 --> 00:02:48.289 you know, I'll be a bit hesitant when it's, you 00:02:48.289 --> 00:02:50.689 know, the thing with Spanish is it's quite complicated 00:02:50.689 --> 00:02:52.650 sometimes, you know, when you have to mix conditional 00:02:52.650 --> 00:02:54.550 with past pressure rates and all those sort of 00:02:54.550 --> 00:02:56.849 things. So when it gets super, super complicated, 00:02:57.409 --> 00:02:59.409 I'm sometimes like, OK, well, what was the 10 00:02:59.409 --> 00:03:01.530 centimeters of figure out in my head? But I can 00:03:01.530 --> 00:03:03.430 pretty much understand everything. OK, so this 00:03:03.430 --> 00:03:04.770 is actually quite interesting. So what do you 00:03:04.770 --> 00:03:07.430 think are the key differences between these two 00:03:07.430 --> 00:03:10.370 ecosystems, between the Spanish one and the UK 00:03:10.370 --> 00:03:13.219 one, for example? Yeah, I think the Spanish ecosystem 00:03:13.219 --> 00:03:16.759 is a lot more risk averse, which I guess, in 00:03:16.759 --> 00:03:18.740 my opinion, I quite like. So I've, you know, 00:03:18.860 --> 00:03:22.680 recently been part of a couple syndicates and 00:03:22.680 --> 00:03:24.800 sort of, you know, we'll be opening our own fund. 00:03:25.599 --> 00:03:29.580 And I'm starting to look things more from a investor's 00:03:29.580 --> 00:03:32.460 perspective as well as sort of a venture builder's 00:03:32.460 --> 00:03:34.740 perspective. And from an investor's side, having 00:03:34.740 --> 00:03:38.039 as much traction and data behind is a good thing. 00:03:38.439 --> 00:03:41.270 So the... The one big thing is obviously that 00:03:41.270 --> 00:03:43.490 the financial investors don't like to take as 00:03:43.490 --> 00:03:45.889 much risk. But then on the other hand, then you 00:03:45.889 --> 00:03:49.340 see lack of innovation there. Well, you see London 00:03:49.340 --> 00:03:52.680 as a big sort of tech hub in terms of what's 00:03:52.680 --> 00:03:54.139 up and coming here, especially, you know, the 00:03:54.139 --> 00:03:57.699 FinTech market in the sort of blockchain market 00:03:57.699 --> 00:04:00.319 and an overall sort of AI developments that are 00:04:00.319 --> 00:04:02.719 happening within London. You know, in the big 00:04:02.719 --> 00:04:04.460 sort of hubs, which I would say is either Madrid 00:04:04.460 --> 00:04:06.599 or Barcelona, that's the most of the innovations 00:04:06.599 --> 00:04:09.900 happen in Spain. They're still quite lagging 00:04:09.900 --> 00:04:12.000 just because the infrastructure and the risk 00:04:12.000 --> 00:04:14.819 appetite isn't there. But if you're a early stage 00:04:14.819 --> 00:04:16.779 investor and you want to invest in a startup, 00:04:17.439 --> 00:04:20.500 you'll get a much fairer valuation being in the 00:04:20.500 --> 00:04:22.180 Spanish economy compared to the London economy. 00:04:23.300 --> 00:04:27.240 Do you think it's harder to get started? That's 00:04:27.240 --> 00:04:29.720 an interesting question. See, I guess in terms 00:04:29.720 --> 00:04:32.500 of both starting out, you can start off in either 00:04:32.500 --> 00:04:36.319 markets. The biggest issue with any startup is 00:04:36.319 --> 00:04:38.240 when they're starting out, they need to know 00:04:38.459 --> 00:04:41.139 they need to address what problem they're solving. 00:04:41.420 --> 00:04:43.379 So it doesn't really matter where you start. 00:04:43.879 --> 00:04:46.839 It's more in terms of applicability. And I can 00:04:46.839 --> 00:04:48.639 start the same product in both economies, but 00:04:48.639 --> 00:04:51.259 I need to know who I'm targeting and what price 00:04:51.259 --> 00:04:54.860 I'm going into the market with and what my overall 00:04:54.860 --> 00:04:57.730 sort of landing strategy is. So I think that's 00:04:57.730 --> 00:05:01.009 a bit more important in either economies. Maybe 00:05:01.009 --> 00:05:05.310 I'll say there are a few more incentives in London 00:05:05.310 --> 00:05:08.670 to sort of push people to go into that entrepreneurial 00:05:08.670 --> 00:05:11.829 sort of journey and, you know, figure out the 00:05:11.829 --> 00:05:13.689 ins and outs of and, you know, the overall support 00:05:13.689 --> 00:05:16.769 system slightly bigger in terms of the events 00:05:16.769 --> 00:05:19.810 that will happen and the programs that are available. 00:05:20.250 --> 00:05:22.189 But I wouldn't say there's a massive difference 00:05:22.189 --> 00:05:24.209 if you want to get started in either economies. 00:05:24.449 --> 00:05:26.360 So one thing, how do you get started? in the 00:05:26.360 --> 00:05:28.160 whole this, you know, what was your introduction 00:05:28.160 --> 00:05:31.939 to the startup ecosystem like? Yeah, so mine 00:05:31.939 --> 00:05:36.060 was actually a You know, I know people always 00:05:36.060 --> 00:05:38.519 say I didn't mean to go here and I just landed 00:05:38.519 --> 00:05:41.100 in it and it's a very cliche statement But it 00:05:41.100 --> 00:05:44.500 genuinely truly is in my case and so my background 00:05:44.500 --> 00:05:47.240 my education background is in maths economics 00:05:47.240 --> 00:05:49.800 I was a valedictorian at the University of Liverpool 00:05:49.800 --> 00:05:54.279 studying there and I I've done sort of placements 00:05:54.279 --> 00:05:57.899 at Marsh McClennan in terms of data analytics 00:05:57.899 --> 00:06:02.779 and I think I I've just done a short stint at 00:06:02.779 --> 00:06:05.120 JP Morgan in the M &A division, realized I didn't 00:06:05.120 --> 00:06:08.060 really want to go into IB. And I was coming back 00:06:08.060 --> 00:06:12.259 to Marsh, Marsh, within Marsh division, sort 00:06:12.259 --> 00:06:16.060 of coming back into the data and insurance role. 00:06:16.800 --> 00:06:18.899 And whilst I was doing that, I decided to take 00:06:18.899 --> 00:06:21.220 a couple of months out and travel to South America. 00:06:22.040 --> 00:06:24.759 And whilst I was doing that, I think you know 00:06:24.759 --> 00:06:28.329 what ready is, right? The platform. Yeah, so 00:06:28.329 --> 00:06:31.189 I was on reddit and I came across this guy's 00:06:31.189 --> 00:06:33.870 post on reddit, you know It's some sort of e 00:06:33.870 --> 00:06:36.589 -commerce place asking about but you know, I 00:06:36.589 --> 00:06:40.009 need help I'm setting up a new Store and you 00:06:40.009 --> 00:06:42.470 know new company and he'll be selling jewelry 00:06:42.470 --> 00:06:45.290 But I have this this and this tech side of things 00:06:45.290 --> 00:06:47.589 that I'm unsure about how to price I'm unsure 00:06:47.589 --> 00:06:50.589 about you know, how to market I'm unsure about 00:06:50.589 --> 00:06:53.829 sort of validation and few other points and you 00:06:53.829 --> 00:06:56.769 know, I'm just sitting in my hotel and I was 00:06:56.769 --> 00:06:58.759 like Oh, actually, I know these answers, you 00:06:58.759 --> 00:07:01.459 know, from studies, from application, and, you 00:07:01.459 --> 00:07:03.860 know, in sort of the small stints of work that 00:07:03.860 --> 00:07:06.000 I've done at that time. And I was like, okay, 00:07:06.160 --> 00:07:08.019 cool. Well, you know, I'll write our response. 00:07:08.360 --> 00:07:09.759 And, you know, I broke it down. I said, look 00:07:09.759 --> 00:07:11.920 at your considering pricing to look at competitors, 00:07:12.100 --> 00:07:13.939 you need to look at the market and supply change. 00:07:14.199 --> 00:07:16.220 product market fit, you'd probably need to do, 00:07:16.220 --> 00:07:18.100 you know, maybe friends and family and then in 00:07:18.100 --> 00:07:20.920 around, you know, see what the response is and 00:07:20.920 --> 00:07:22.699 a few other points regarding sort of marketing 00:07:22.699 --> 00:07:25.259 with low budget. And he said, wow, thank you. 00:07:25.439 --> 00:07:27.160 And, you know, he went away, came back after 00:07:27.160 --> 00:07:29.519 a week and said, look, you know, I applied all 00:07:29.519 --> 00:07:31.259 the sort of the things he said, and it was really, 00:07:31.259 --> 00:07:34.399 really helpful, got really good data. Can we 00:07:34.399 --> 00:07:36.660 get on a call next week and, you know, discuss, 00:07:36.839 --> 00:07:38.519 I would love to sort of have you on board. And 00:07:38.519 --> 00:07:40.279 I was like, yeah, sure. You know, thinking nothing 00:07:40.279 --> 00:07:42.660 of it. And then his next message was, OK, cool, 00:07:42.680 --> 00:07:45.569 how much you charge? I was like, charge? Interesting, 00:07:45.790 --> 00:07:47.269 you know, I've never been asked this before. 00:07:47.689 --> 00:07:49.449 And I was like, I really just don't know what 00:07:49.449 --> 00:07:52.389 to say. So, you know, I went on Google, I was 00:07:52.389 --> 00:07:55.149 like, how much do consultants charge? And I looked 00:07:55.149 --> 00:07:57.790 at, you know, the job rate of it to like $40 00:07:57.790 --> 00:08:00.810 an hour, I was like, $40 an hour? And he was 00:08:00.810 --> 00:08:02.589 like, cool, can I book you in for five hours? 00:08:03.050 --> 00:08:06.050 And I was like, sure. And, you know, two years 00:08:06.050 --> 00:08:08.870 ago, out of nowhere, that's sort of how the journey 00:08:08.870 --> 00:08:12.610 began. By that time, you know, I sort of was 00:08:12.610 --> 00:08:15.009 doing freelance consulting on the side whilst 00:08:15.009 --> 00:08:19.850 I was doing my roles at Marsh McLennan, so within 00:08:19.850 --> 00:08:22.389 Marsh and then Merce, moving into sort of the 00:08:22.389 --> 00:08:24.889 wealth management side of things and understanding. 00:08:25.339 --> 00:08:28.139 the larger deals on the mutual funds, pension 00:08:28.139 --> 00:08:31.660 funds and all those risk appetite sides of things. 00:08:31.879 --> 00:08:35.320 And then as the, you know, the consulting sides 00:08:35.320 --> 00:08:38.100 of things, you know, grew from one to five to 00:08:38.100 --> 00:08:41.080 10, I realized I enjoyed that a bit more. I liked 00:08:41.080 --> 00:08:43.139 sort of being, you know, rolling my sleeves up 00:08:43.139 --> 00:08:46.980 and being in that startup ecosystem a lot more 00:08:46.980 --> 00:08:50.259 decided to, you know, invest into myself, into 00:08:50.259 --> 00:08:54.120 courses, into mentors. And then yes, went all 00:08:54.120 --> 00:08:56.850 in. It's a great start. And it's actually funny 00:08:56.850 --> 00:08:58.649 because you actually you started off in Reddit, 00:08:58.769 --> 00:09:01.029 which most people use for, I don't know, commenting 00:09:01.029 --> 00:09:02.730 on politics and football and stuff like that. 00:09:03.009 --> 00:09:06.070 Exactly. Yeah. So funnily enough, yeah, my first 00:09:06.070 --> 00:09:08.049 three clients were from Reddit. So, you know, 00:09:08.250 --> 00:09:11.669 I mean, I've never used it, you know, sort of 00:09:11.669 --> 00:09:13.769 after that, just because, you know, it was very, 00:09:13.769 --> 00:09:16.610 very small ticket. But if it's not working out 00:09:16.610 --> 00:09:19.669 for you on LinkedIn, maybe B2B, try Reddit. You 00:09:19.669 --> 00:09:21.509 know, it could work out. There's a lot of cool 00:09:21.509 --> 00:09:24.820 forums out there. Talking about a good product 00:09:24.820 --> 00:09:30.759 market fit, right? I think part of it is where 00:09:30.759 --> 00:09:32.980 a lot of people and just as a sort of a pointer 00:09:32.980 --> 00:09:35.519 where a lot of people sort of miss out is providing 00:09:35.519 --> 00:09:37.879 value first. And I sort of still try to do that 00:09:37.879 --> 00:09:40.419 now. And that's something I picked up from Alex 00:09:40.419 --> 00:09:43.139 or Mozi was, you know, too many people are too 00:09:43.139 --> 00:09:45.500 eager and too early to just go out there and 00:09:45.500 --> 00:09:48.019 go all sales mode, right? And start pitching 00:09:48.019 --> 00:09:49.679 you something and start selling you something. 00:09:49.740 --> 00:09:51.679 But that's sort of never been my focus. Never 00:09:51.679 --> 00:09:54.620 then, never now. And I know that if I could provide 00:09:54.620 --> 00:09:57.120 enough value, people will just come back to me. 00:09:59.039 --> 00:10:01.340 I'll always keep a gateway open that you know 00:10:01.340 --> 00:10:03.139 there there are ways to reach out to me whether 00:10:03.139 --> 00:10:05.200 that be through LinkedIn or emails or whatever 00:10:05.200 --> 00:10:08.159 everything is readily available but if I need 00:10:08.159 --> 00:10:10.480 I need to give that value for them to come reach 00:10:10.480 --> 00:10:12.480 out to me because that's always a much stronger 00:10:12.480 --> 00:10:15.059 lead and people stay for much longer whereas 00:10:15.059 --> 00:10:17.700 you know if you even if you are successful in 00:10:17.700 --> 00:10:19.919 really sort of being that pushy salesman and 00:10:19.919 --> 00:10:22.639 you close them the chances are you know yeah 00:10:22.639 --> 00:10:25.519 they won't last so you know I always prefer to 00:10:25.519 --> 00:10:27.899 sort of give value first give them something 00:10:27.899 --> 00:10:30.250 for free, give them your example of what I can 00:10:30.250 --> 00:10:32.470 possibly do for them and then you know make them 00:10:32.470 --> 00:10:35.470 come to me. I think Sir Rosy is the guy who, 00:10:35.610 --> 00:10:38.070 there's James Redd, he always has the thing on 00:10:38.070 --> 00:10:41.159 his notes. Yeah. You know, fun fact about him, 00:10:41.200 --> 00:10:44.379 he was actually sued by a gym owner who said 00:10:44.379 --> 00:10:48.460 he was stealing his content and using it. Then 00:10:48.460 --> 00:10:50.899 funny enough, Alex actually went back to this 00:10:50.899 --> 00:10:52.940 guy and said, actually, you stole my content 00:10:52.940 --> 00:10:55.120 and now you're suing me for using my content 00:10:55.120 --> 00:10:57.820 that's been on the web for ages now. So obviously 00:10:57.820 --> 00:11:01.200 the guy, you know, quit his lawsuit against him 00:11:01.200 --> 00:11:03.639 because it was like, so it just goes to show 00:11:03.639 --> 00:11:06.059 how important it is to add value to people before 00:11:06.059 --> 00:11:08.580 even start charging them for it, isn't it? Yeah, 00:11:08.620 --> 00:11:11.940 exactly. So you mentioned adding value. What 00:11:11.940 --> 00:11:13.820 about, you know, you're looking at startups. 00:11:14.159 --> 00:11:16.340 Can you pinpoint some of the red flags they always 00:11:16.340 --> 00:11:19.200 have? Can you just from the get -go say, I don't 00:11:19.200 --> 00:11:20.860 think it's going to be successful because of 00:11:20.860 --> 00:11:23.159 A, B and C. And if so, what do they look like? 00:11:23.399 --> 00:11:26.279 What are these red flags? I think in terms of 00:11:26.279 --> 00:11:29.120 due diligence, there's really sort of four key 00:11:29.120 --> 00:11:31.600 things that we look out for. The first thing 00:11:31.600 --> 00:11:34.440 is primarily is product and in terms of, you 00:11:34.440 --> 00:11:37.799 know, how good your product market fit is and, 00:11:37.919 --> 00:11:40.029 you know, what problem your product itself is 00:11:40.029 --> 00:11:43.269 solving and you know if you've created a chair 00:11:43.269 --> 00:11:46.029 that is you know one percent more comfy than 00:11:46.029 --> 00:11:48.590 what already exists and you know you're not really 00:11:48.590 --> 00:11:51.090 moving the needle and and in terms of you know 00:11:51.090 --> 00:11:53.649 how it sort of fits into the wider market and 00:11:53.649 --> 00:11:55.990 what the demand for it is right maybe you can 00:11:55.990 --> 00:12:00.929 create a really really super tech product but 00:12:00.929 --> 00:12:03.029 if it's only solving a problem for like you know 00:12:03.029 --> 00:12:06.029 five people then again the volume really isn't 00:12:06.029 --> 00:12:08.750 there for an early investor to come in And the 00:12:08.750 --> 00:12:10.830 second thing we then look at and is a bit of 00:12:10.830 --> 00:12:14.370 a red flag is market sizing. So calculations 00:12:14.370 --> 00:12:18.429 of time Samsung is, you know, it's a very interesting 00:12:18.429 --> 00:12:20.090 topic, which is a lot of people don't know how 00:12:20.090 --> 00:12:21.610 to calculate and they're trying to calculate 00:12:21.610 --> 00:12:24.659 and it's a bit of a It was a bit of a rigorous 00:12:24.659 --> 00:12:26.740 task to begin with, you know, figuring out what 00:12:26.740 --> 00:12:29.059 your total addressable market, then your serviceable 00:12:29.059 --> 00:12:31.879 market and then your obtainable market is. And 00:12:31.879 --> 00:12:34.379 people always, you know, they misconstrued what 00:12:34.379 --> 00:12:36.840 obtainable actually is. But, you know, that's 00:12:36.840 --> 00:12:38.919 the second sort of part where they don't really 00:12:38.919 --> 00:12:40.720 understand their market. They don't understand 00:12:40.720 --> 00:12:43.600 who their competition is. And this is one of 00:12:43.600 --> 00:12:45.879 the sort of the most occurring lines I've seen 00:12:45.879 --> 00:12:49.639 investors say is and I'll give advice to any 00:12:49.639 --> 00:12:52.299 of the startups that watch this is never ever 00:12:52.299 --> 00:12:54.710 say you don't have any competitors. You know, 00:12:54.789 --> 00:12:56.830 you're never the first person to think of the 00:12:56.830 --> 00:13:00.070 idea. Maybe, you know, something exact into the 00:13:00.070 --> 00:13:02.409 market doesn't really exist. Most likely, probably 00:13:02.409 --> 00:13:05.009 does. But even if it doesn't, you'll still have 00:13:05.009 --> 00:13:07.629 vertical and horizontal competition. The investor 00:13:07.629 --> 00:13:09.730 needs to know what's already existing in the 00:13:09.730 --> 00:13:11.789 market, and they need to better understand that 00:13:11.789 --> 00:13:13.870 market. And they need to know that you understand 00:13:13.870 --> 00:13:16.769 that market. So in the future, whether you want 00:13:16.769 --> 00:13:18.850 to expand horizontally or vertically, you'll 00:13:18.850 --> 00:13:22.200 be able to. So that's the second thing. Then 00:13:22.200 --> 00:13:25.639 the third thing is financials and founders who 00:13:25.639 --> 00:13:28.860 are slightly incompetent of understanding what 00:13:28.860 --> 00:13:31.480 the valuation of the company is. One of the things 00:13:31.480 --> 00:13:35.200 we're seeing a lot in the US domiciled companies 00:13:35.200 --> 00:13:40.320 is these valuations of 10, 15, 20 million with 00:13:40.320 --> 00:13:43.940 nothing built and just an idea. And ideas are 00:13:43.940 --> 00:13:47.740 great. I love ideas. I love doing ideas, brainstorming 00:13:47.740 --> 00:13:50.460 sessions with my team partners and so on and 00:13:50.460 --> 00:13:52.919 so forth. ideas aren't really worth anything 00:13:52.919 --> 00:13:56.240 themselves, it's the execution. So without the 00:13:56.240 --> 00:13:58.720 execution, putting such high and immense value 00:13:58.720 --> 00:14:02.159 onto something, and you know, most investors 00:14:02.159 --> 00:14:05.200 will just, you know, pass it off. So And that's 00:14:05.200 --> 00:14:07.340 the third thing. And then the fourth thing is 00:14:07.340 --> 00:14:10.240 what we look at is the team itself. What's the 00:14:10.240 --> 00:14:12.500 background of the team? What have the team achieved 00:14:12.500 --> 00:14:17.379 so far? Why are they the right fit? So you said 00:14:17.379 --> 00:14:19.519 Ren Flack. So if a team comes to me and say, 00:14:19.720 --> 00:14:22.679 look, we're creating a cyber tech startup, none 00:14:22.679 --> 00:14:25.220 of them have a background. They were taxi drivers. 00:14:25.559 --> 00:14:27.220 And me and the restaurant owners are like, well. 00:14:27.309 --> 00:14:30.529 How are you starting? What is your competency? 00:14:31.649 --> 00:14:33.509 So you need to show that competency there as 00:14:33.509 --> 00:14:35.529 well. So I think those four things are the main 00:14:35.529 --> 00:14:37.789 things. We look at it from a due diligence perspective 00:14:37.789 --> 00:14:41.289 when we're working on the investor side to ensure 00:14:41.289 --> 00:14:45.450 any red flags are mitigated. Do you think, I 00:14:45.450 --> 00:14:48.409 was actually, I've read two things, complete 00:14:48.409 --> 00:14:51.450 opposite news. One said that investment has gone 00:14:51.450 --> 00:14:52.750 down. The other one actually said investment 00:14:52.750 --> 00:14:54.990 has actually gone up. So what do you think the 00:14:54.990 --> 00:14:57.509 investment market looks right now? Because talking 00:14:57.509 --> 00:14:59.230 to many founders, some say it's really, really 00:14:59.230 --> 00:15:01.490 hard. Where other people say actually, no, it's 00:15:01.490 --> 00:15:03.129 never been better. And if you look at the stats, 00:15:03.409 --> 00:15:04.629 actually people are actually putting a lot of 00:15:04.629 --> 00:15:06.929 money back in. So what does it look like for 00:15:06.929 --> 00:15:09.259 you? What's your perspective on this? Yeah, I 00:15:09.259 --> 00:15:11.220 guess neither are wrong. It just depends on when 00:15:11.220 --> 00:15:13.860 you compare it to. So if you compare it to, you 00:15:13.860 --> 00:15:17.139 know, peak of 2021, yes, sorry, peak of 2022, 00:15:17.740 --> 00:15:20.639 end of 2021, yes, investment has gone down. But 00:15:20.639 --> 00:15:23.279 if you compare it to... for last year, yes, investment 00:15:23.279 --> 00:15:26.580 has gone up. And so it's your comparison scale, 00:15:26.740 --> 00:15:29.179 in terms of what purple period in time you're 00:15:29.179 --> 00:15:32.820 comparing it to. And in terms of now, I think 00:15:32.820 --> 00:15:35.620 we hit a slump and you know, we're just coming 00:15:35.620 --> 00:15:38.159 back in that period now where money is starting 00:15:38.159 --> 00:15:40.779 to flow in. So Carter does really good reports 00:15:40.779 --> 00:15:44.759 in terms of the stats on pre seed seed stage 00:15:44.759 --> 00:15:48.250 series A series B stages funding and you know, 00:15:48.429 --> 00:15:53.690 Q2, which recently just finished had very minimal 00:15:53.690 --> 00:15:55.610 incremental increase. I think the average increase 00:15:55.610 --> 00:15:58.710 was around one to two percent from the previous 00:15:58.710 --> 00:16:01.870 quarter. So, yeah, the investment landscape is 00:16:01.870 --> 00:16:04.549 sort of coming back to what normality was. But 00:16:04.549 --> 00:16:06.690 so many people came into the entrepreneurial 00:16:06.690 --> 00:16:10.669 world during or sort of post the pandemic crash. 00:16:11.409 --> 00:16:14.269 And their understanding of what the market is, 00:16:14.269 --> 00:16:17.139 is completely flawed. And, you know, they thought 00:16:17.139 --> 00:16:18.940 that, you know, Korean is different from 1, 2, 00:16:19.179 --> 00:16:22.000 2, 2, 2, 2, 2. where everyone had money that, 00:16:22.000 --> 00:16:23.580 you know, they'll think of something and they'll 00:16:23.580 --> 00:16:25.500 go to the investor, investors go, here's the 00:16:25.500 --> 00:16:27.679 money, you know, here's 500 grand and you know, 00:16:27.759 --> 00:16:30.179 you take it, you go invest. That's not really 00:16:30.179 --> 00:16:32.799 the reality. And now we're coming back, you know, 00:16:32.820 --> 00:16:35.000 we had the crash and it's coming back into market 00:16:35.000 --> 00:16:37.840 correction phase where good ideas are now being 00:16:37.840 --> 00:16:39.440 funded again, investors are starting to sort 00:16:39.440 --> 00:16:42.679 of take risks and the previous investments are 00:16:42.679 --> 00:16:45.340 now, you know, showing exits. So it's coming 00:16:45.340 --> 00:16:47.139 to that correction phase where probably till 00:16:47.139 --> 00:16:49.720 the end of the year or early 2025 we'll see. 00:16:49.840 --> 00:16:52.679 And it being here, but maybe not on a peak, but 00:16:52.679 --> 00:16:55.419 again, it's not on a horizontal or, you know, 00:16:55.559 --> 00:16:58.659 vertical incline of some sorts. Interesting, 00:16:58.860 --> 00:17:01.120 because I think you're the first person who actually 00:17:01.120 --> 00:17:03.820 has done such a complete analysis of the way 00:17:03.820 --> 00:17:06.480 the market works and also perspective on the 00:17:06.480 --> 00:17:08.440 market. Quite interesting. What do you think? 00:17:08.640 --> 00:17:11.900 So I know you do deals in multiple countries 00:17:11.900 --> 00:17:14.579 and continents. We were actually talking before 00:17:14.579 --> 00:17:17.079 that the only two places you have is Antarctica. 00:17:17.500 --> 00:17:19.890 And where's the other one? Africa, yeah. I think 00:17:19.890 --> 00:17:22.650 so. One will be easier than the other, I'm assuming. 00:17:23.329 --> 00:17:25.309 What do you think are, is it harder to raise 00:17:25.309 --> 00:17:27.210 in Europe than it is, for example, in the US? 00:17:27.369 --> 00:17:30.069 Or is it harder to raise in Asia? How does that 00:17:30.069 --> 00:17:31.730 actually compare? Even Latem, to be honest, I 00:17:31.730 --> 00:17:34.190 don't know much about Latem, so how do they compare? 00:17:34.910 --> 00:17:39.250 Yeah. In terms of ease of raising, I guess it 00:17:39.250 --> 00:17:41.549 all sort of depends on competition, right? So 00:17:41.549 --> 00:17:45.470 the U .S. market makes up roughly 51 % of global 00:17:45.470 --> 00:17:48.250 venture market like venture microbe market. So 00:17:48.250 --> 00:17:51.410 all of the sort of the inflow and the money and 00:17:51.410 --> 00:17:53.769 the deals that are happening in the U .S., U 00:17:53.769 --> 00:17:56.410 .S. alone, the rest of the world makes up that 00:17:56.410 --> 00:18:00.130 much. So when people talk about ease, they think, 00:18:00.130 --> 00:18:02.369 oh, well, it'll be so easy. But then you also 00:18:02.369 --> 00:18:04.250 have to look at the number of startups in the 00:18:04.250 --> 00:18:07.509 same economy. Because just because there's cash, 00:18:07.890 --> 00:18:10.549 it doesn't mean it's easy because then you have 00:18:10.549 --> 00:18:13.450 to compare it to the volume to make it easy for 00:18:13.450 --> 00:18:17.390 people. Like if $100 is being invested, but there's 00:18:17.390 --> 00:18:19.549 also 100 people, each person is only really getting 00:18:19.549 --> 00:18:22.490 $1. But then, you know, in Spain, if there's 00:18:22.490 --> 00:18:24.769 $10 being invested, but there's only five people, 00:18:25.029 --> 00:18:26.650 actually, everyone's getting $2. And, you know, 00:18:26.750 --> 00:18:28.529 it may be easier because there's less people 00:18:28.529 --> 00:18:31.769 fighting for that. So yeah, from that perspective, 00:18:32.390 --> 00:18:35.569 I would say US is a very attractive market, especially 00:18:35.569 --> 00:18:38.369 on the tech and it rewards people for taking 00:18:38.369 --> 00:18:42.029 risk. And as long as, you know, you are credible, 00:18:42.089 --> 00:18:45.220 you've done something. And, you know, what you 00:18:45.220 --> 00:18:47.799 have made is innovative and better for the world. 00:18:48.200 --> 00:18:51.240 You should be able to get investment. And in 00:18:51.240 --> 00:18:54.160 terms of the European market, European market 00:18:54.160 --> 00:18:57.480 is I wouldn't put it as European market as a 00:18:57.480 --> 00:19:00.619 whole because London operates very differently 00:19:00.619 --> 00:19:03.079 to Berlin, which operates very differently to 00:19:03.079 --> 00:19:06.170 Madrid, which operates very differently. and 00:19:06.170 --> 00:19:08.789 to, you know, maybe somewhere like Kiev and now, 00:19:09.130 --> 00:19:11.829 and, you know, somewhere maybe like Warsaw. So 00:19:11.829 --> 00:19:14.269 these different economies and maybe Lisbon yourself, 00:19:14.509 --> 00:19:16.809 I mean, Lisbon is doing quite well, you know, 00:19:16.869 --> 00:19:19.839 as you know, so. Even these sort of different 00:19:19.839 --> 00:19:22.539 economies in Europe sort of play a different 00:19:22.539 --> 00:19:24.599 part and I wouldn't really be able to put them 00:19:24.599 --> 00:19:26.599 together just because of their different mindsets. 00:19:27.039 --> 00:19:29.720 But as part of sort of Western economy, London 00:19:29.720 --> 00:19:31.799 being sort of at the peak where they're able 00:19:31.799 --> 00:19:34.279 to take more risk and are more rewarding. But 00:19:34.279 --> 00:19:37.700 again, the same volume of guys who are sort of 00:19:37.700 --> 00:19:40.119 going into it, where the other markets are risk 00:19:40.119 --> 00:19:43.539 averse. But in terms of how easy it is to raise, 00:19:44.259 --> 00:19:47.539 it's not that easy to raise in Eastern European 00:19:47.539 --> 00:19:50.650 economy. unless you are a exited founder or you 00:19:50.650 --> 00:19:54.029 have a really, really solid proposition and that 00:19:54.029 --> 00:19:57.730 is getting backed against or by a angel or a 00:19:57.730 --> 00:20:00.569 known VC. And then off the back of that, you 00:20:00.569 --> 00:20:04.470 see a lot of guys coming in. The interesting 00:20:04.470 --> 00:20:07.430 thing about the Asian and Latin economies are 00:20:07.430 --> 00:20:11.309 they're growing and a lot of governments are 00:20:11.309 --> 00:20:14.150 putting a lot of money behind it as, you know, 00:20:14.269 --> 00:20:17.569 plans in India, for example. I know the Indian 00:20:17.569 --> 00:20:21.950 economy fairly well, you know, with the in Gujarat, 00:20:22.289 --> 00:20:24.390 there's a state in India, there's a lot of government 00:20:24.390 --> 00:20:26.670 investment, you know, they've put in very similar 00:20:26.670 --> 00:20:30.730 to Dubai where this is zero. corporate tax area, 00:20:31.630 --> 00:20:34.269 and they're inviting companies to come in. It's 00:20:34.269 --> 00:20:36.609 still rather larger. I think it's for companies 00:20:36.609 --> 00:20:38.750 who are making more than 50 million in revenue, 00:20:38.829 --> 00:20:43.990 but that's a way to bring in these SMEs or MSMEs. 00:20:44.410 --> 00:20:46.990 So those sort of countries, they're investing 00:20:46.990 --> 00:20:50.089 a lot, even publicly and privately, into their 00:20:50.089 --> 00:20:53.049 infrastructure. And same with Lafam. Mexico is 00:20:53.049 --> 00:20:55.859 doing really, really well. as well as Colombia. 00:20:56.099 --> 00:20:58.039 I know Mexico is central America before people 00:20:58.039 --> 00:21:02.900 come to me. I still count it as part of Latam. 00:21:03.299 --> 00:21:06.019 It's very different to the US economy. But Mexico 00:21:06.019 --> 00:21:07.559 is doing really well. Colombia is doing really 00:21:07.559 --> 00:21:11.200 well. Brazil always has been doing well. And 00:21:11.200 --> 00:21:13.539 now the other Spanish speaking countries around 00:21:13.539 --> 00:21:17.299 it are trying to play catch up. In those two 00:21:17.299 --> 00:21:20.099 geographies, it's the involvement. from the public 00:21:20.099 --> 00:21:25.579 sector and actively opening incubation centers 00:21:25.579 --> 00:21:28.660 as well as giving out more subsidies, giving 00:21:28.660 --> 00:21:30.819 out more grants, giving out more opportunities. 00:21:31.720 --> 00:21:34.359 It's shaping the landscape in a very, very well 00:21:34.359 --> 00:21:36.480 manner. When you talk with all these investors, 00:21:37.259 --> 00:21:41.079 do they ever worry of having to start doing business 00:21:41.079 --> 00:21:43.640 in other countries or other regions because of 00:21:43.640 --> 00:21:45.559 the legal system, for example? And some people 00:21:45.559 --> 00:21:48.119 might say, you know what, I get the UK legal 00:21:48.119 --> 00:21:50.039 system, but if I move over, let's take Spain 00:21:50.039 --> 00:21:52.359 as an example, I don't actually understand how 00:21:52.359 --> 00:21:54.799 it fully works. I'm not willing to put my money 00:21:54.799 --> 00:21:57.519 there because I might get hurt. Does that ever 00:21:57.519 --> 00:22:00.579 happen? Yeah, no, definitely. There are a lot 00:22:00.579 --> 00:22:03.000 of investors who are like, you know, I'm UK through 00:22:03.000 --> 00:22:04.880 and through, or I'm spade through and through. 00:22:05.700 --> 00:22:09.059 And most of the time you wouldn't see small ticket 00:22:09.059 --> 00:22:11.279 angels, and when I mean small ticket, anyone 00:22:11.279 --> 00:22:14.980 investing between 25 to 100k themselves, taking 00:22:14.980 --> 00:22:17.880 those big risks unless the company itself has 00:22:17.880 --> 00:22:20.579 a subsidiary in the other geography. so i know 00:22:20.579 --> 00:22:22.880 some spanish companies who have an office in 00:22:22.880 --> 00:22:25.720 england and then have an office in spain and 00:22:25.720 --> 00:22:28.059 the investors they call because you have an office 00:22:28.059 --> 00:22:30.339 here you you know you're part english part spanish 00:22:30.339 --> 00:22:32.880 i'll sort of jump on board but but i think i 00:22:32.880 --> 00:22:34.359 think it could be the standard because you know 00:22:34.359 --> 00:22:35.920 it's a different language it's different sort 00:22:35.920 --> 00:22:39.660 of judicial system spain is like as i said regulate 00:22:39.660 --> 00:22:42.880 regulatory tight in terms of how you can set 00:22:42.880 --> 00:22:45.279 up your accounts, how you can set up your laws, 00:22:45.440 --> 00:22:47.440 restrictions, well, tighter compared to the UK 00:22:47.440 --> 00:22:53.240 anyways. There is the habit of if the investor 00:22:53.240 --> 00:22:55.099 in the UK doesn't speak Spanish, then there's 00:22:55.099 --> 00:22:58.960 also that aspect of it. And on the earlier side, 00:22:59.000 --> 00:23:02.539 and this is what I tend to focus on now for being 00:23:02.539 --> 00:23:06.380 in syndicates, is what value can I add if I couldn't 00:23:06.380 --> 00:23:09.339 add anything monetarily? And that's the biggest 00:23:09.339 --> 00:23:11.660 thing I think about because, cool, you know, 00:23:11.680 --> 00:23:15.539 you might get 50k, 60k, 100k, whatever, but if 00:23:15.539 --> 00:23:17.500 I can make those right connections, if I can 00:23:17.500 --> 00:23:19.279 put the right system, the right tools in place, 00:23:19.660 --> 00:23:22.319 that should be ideally worth a lot more than 00:23:22.319 --> 00:23:24.559 the money because the money will, you know, in 00:23:24.559 --> 00:23:26.859 the start of being a system 550k, 100k is not 00:23:26.859 --> 00:23:29.819 a big check. You know, that, you know, some companies 00:23:29.819 --> 00:23:32.460 will blow that within two months. And right. 00:23:32.779 --> 00:23:34.950 So from the investors, that's it. perspective, 00:23:35.089 --> 00:23:37.549 they need to focus more on what connections can 00:23:37.549 --> 00:23:40.369 we make and what we can do for the startup, which 00:23:40.369 --> 00:23:43.410 is going to be worth a lot more than just the 00:23:43.410 --> 00:23:45.309 cash they put in. And if that isn't something 00:23:45.309 --> 00:23:47.490 they can, I would personally not go into that 00:23:47.490 --> 00:23:49.190 deal very early on if you're a business angel. 00:23:49.369 --> 00:23:51.710 If you are obviously the super angel with hundreds 00:23:51.710 --> 00:23:54.190 of millions behind your back and you don't mind, 00:23:54.309 --> 00:23:56.210 then that's fair enough. But if you're sort of 00:23:56.210 --> 00:23:58.190 an earlier angel and you're sort of looking to 00:23:58.190 --> 00:24:01.099 go into a different geography, understand the 00:24:01.099 --> 00:24:02.980 culture, understand what you can bring to the 00:24:02.980 --> 00:24:05.079 table, understand what you can do aside from 00:24:05.079 --> 00:24:08.480 your money. And if you can't, you know, if those 00:24:08.480 --> 00:24:10.539 don't add up, if two and two doesn't equal four 00:24:10.539 --> 00:24:14.500 that, then... You mentioned syndicates. So I 00:24:14.500 --> 00:24:16.140 know you're part of a couple. Can you tell the 00:24:16.140 --> 00:24:18.980 audience how does that actually work? And most 00:24:18.980 --> 00:24:20.700 importantly, should they just reach out to someone 00:24:20.700 --> 00:24:22.099 in the syndicate saying, hey, can I get some 00:24:22.099 --> 00:24:25.440 money? Does that actually work? Yeah. So syndication 00:24:25.440 --> 00:24:31.440 is, I guess... It's a bunch of angels, also people 00:24:31.440 --> 00:24:34.019 with money, coming together and saying look we'll 00:24:34.019 --> 00:24:37.240 invest in the group. Usually how the main differentiation 00:24:37.240 --> 00:24:39.980 between a fund and a syndication looks like is, 00:24:40.220 --> 00:24:42.579 with funds there's an LP and a GP structure, 00:24:42.759 --> 00:24:44.619 it's the limited partner and general partner, 00:24:45.279 --> 00:24:46.839 and in the limited partners they will put money 00:24:46.839 --> 00:24:50.789 into a pot. just visualizing it as a bit of pot. 00:24:51.349 --> 00:24:54.289 And a general partner will have, in very layman's 00:24:54.289 --> 00:24:56.450 terms, the ability to just spend the money as, 00:24:56.450 --> 00:24:58.509 you know, as been agreed as part of the contract 00:24:58.509 --> 00:25:01.690 of them signing in. So the money is a bit more 00:25:01.690 --> 00:25:03.450 readily available, you know, when the startup 00:25:03.450 --> 00:25:06.109 goes through due diligence process, and it's, 00:25:06.109 --> 00:25:09.150 you know, cleared all the sort of the challenges 00:25:09.150 --> 00:25:11.569 and due diligence, and it meets all the criteria, 00:25:11.869 --> 00:25:14.789 the fund manager can just say, look, cool, you're 00:25:14.789 --> 00:25:16.809 fit, you know, is a check for Q and a thousand. 00:25:17.049 --> 00:25:18.980 It's a bit different syndicates where there's 00:25:18.980 --> 00:25:22.680 groups of angels in a syndicate. Not everyone 00:25:22.680 --> 00:25:24.660 will come in on a deal. It's very much on case 00:25:24.660 --> 00:25:28.299 by case basis. So once the syndicate leads, brings 00:25:28.299 --> 00:25:31.759 in a startup or a project, we will come in and 00:25:31.759 --> 00:25:34.880 discuss, okay, well, this is a startup. This 00:25:34.880 --> 00:25:37.640 is how much allocation we have. Who is it in? 00:25:37.920 --> 00:25:40.180 more so kind of thing. And you know, people can 00:25:40.180 --> 00:25:42.140 then put in, you know, let's say 10 investors 00:25:42.140 --> 00:25:45.559 put in 20 grand checks out of 100 investors, 00:25:46.000 --> 00:25:48.160 and they'll come in and what setup is called 00:25:48.160 --> 00:25:51.519 an SPV, which is special purpose vehicle. And 00:25:51.519 --> 00:25:54.039 using that, you know, we will fund around so 00:25:54.039 --> 00:25:57.420 we will sit on the cap table as a SPV, which 00:25:57.420 --> 00:26:01.299 is sort of a entity itself. And that also carry 00:26:01.299 --> 00:26:03.339 it. So that's the sort of the main difference. 00:26:04.799 --> 00:26:07.460 Sometimes the good thing with the syndicates 00:26:07.460 --> 00:26:09.839 is it's a lot more quicker. In terms of hearing 00:26:09.839 --> 00:26:12.119 the yes or no VC, they have to go through the 00:26:12.119 --> 00:26:14.299 commit. I mean, there is also an investment committee 00:26:14.299 --> 00:26:17.279 in the syndicate, but in VC is a lot more so 00:26:17.279 --> 00:26:19.059 formalized. So you have to wait for their decision, 00:26:19.059 --> 00:26:20.680 you have to go through multiple rounds of due 00:26:20.680 --> 00:26:23.500 diligence. And then once it's cleared, then you 00:26:23.500 --> 00:26:25.759 know, processing and getting money into the bank, 00:26:26.039 --> 00:26:27.839 you know, sometimes can take three, four, five 00:26:27.839 --> 00:26:30.799 months, or a syndicate a lot more. quick moving 00:26:30.799 --> 00:26:33.000 where they're like yay, nay, in, out, cool, this 00:26:33.000 --> 00:26:35.000 is the amount of allocation we can do, buy people 00:26:35.000 --> 00:26:38.039 in, money in, money out and you know it's that 00:26:38.039 --> 00:26:40.119 part of it but then it's also you don't know 00:26:40.119 --> 00:26:42.400 how much money you're going to be getting with 00:26:42.400 --> 00:26:44.759 the syndicate because you know in one deal a 00:26:44.759 --> 00:26:47.079 lot of people might come in and in another you 00:26:47.079 --> 00:26:50.319 know not many you know many might pull out and 00:26:50.319 --> 00:26:52.819 those are sort of the key differences between 00:26:52.819 --> 00:26:55.180 a syndicate and a regular fund that most people 00:26:55.180 --> 00:26:58.509 know. And how do you approach them? Because I'm 00:26:58.509 --> 00:27:00.049 assuming you can't really approach them in the 00:27:00.049 --> 00:27:02.789 same way, especially when it has so many decision 00:27:02.789 --> 00:27:04.990 makers, where I guess an investment fund will 00:27:04.990 --> 00:27:07.230 have just one and you kind of know, okay, here's 00:27:07.230 --> 00:27:10.329 this GP, let me go and introduce myself. So you 00:27:10.329 --> 00:27:12.900 even get started with all this. Yeah, I think 00:27:12.900 --> 00:27:15.859 in any ways, the best way to sort of approach 00:27:15.859 --> 00:27:19.160 someone is in person or through a contact. I 00:27:19.160 --> 00:27:21.200 mean, look, we all get, you know, spammed on 00:27:21.200 --> 00:27:23.660 LinkedIn with like, you know, pitch decks, and 00:27:23.660 --> 00:27:25.299 then, you know, people sort of doing that. So 00:27:25.299 --> 00:27:27.720 I'll say definitely don't do that. I'll say that's 00:27:27.720 --> 00:27:30.779 what not to do. You know, the first message from 00:27:30.779 --> 00:27:33.660 you I don't want to see is, hey, my name is Bob, 00:27:33.660 --> 00:27:35.259 and you know, this is my startup, this is what 00:27:35.259 --> 00:27:37.799 I'm raising. And I'm like, pretending, you know, 00:27:37.859 --> 00:27:39.420 we're meeting in public, right, you know, just 00:27:39.420 --> 00:27:41.450 going to go try and sell me everything. the first 00:27:41.450 --> 00:27:43.210 time you meet someone, you know, you just give 00:27:43.210 --> 00:27:46.730 them bad taste. And so I would say ideally, if 00:27:46.730 --> 00:27:49.349 you can go through either someone, you know, 00:27:49.430 --> 00:27:51.750 so for example, if I'm in that syndicate and 00:27:51.750 --> 00:27:54.470 you know, you know, a startup who might be a 00:27:54.470 --> 00:27:56.049 fit, so they might come through you and say, 00:27:56.289 --> 00:27:58.910 Hey, Ricardo, I know, you know, Andal, can you 00:27:58.910 --> 00:28:01.049 please have a chat with him and see if he's open 00:28:01.049 --> 00:28:03.269 to a email exchange? I really want to talk to 00:28:03.269 --> 00:28:05.809 him about Xlambi. That's a great way. Or, you 00:28:05.809 --> 00:28:08.509 know, I go to a lot of events, you know, a lot 00:28:08.509 --> 00:28:10.809 of times that's maybe once a week in some cases. 00:28:11.329 --> 00:28:14.490 So you'll see me there, come up to me then, because 00:28:14.490 --> 00:28:16.670 at that point I'm ready to be pitched, because 00:28:16.670 --> 00:28:19.329 I'm going to an event, especially if it's a networking 00:28:19.329 --> 00:28:22.049 event about startups, about investment, at that 00:28:22.049 --> 00:28:24.849 point I'm expected to be pitched. So at that 00:28:24.849 --> 00:28:27.210 point, you can come to me and say, look, this 00:28:27.210 --> 00:28:30.329 is what we're doing, can we be approached? There 00:28:30.329 --> 00:28:33.589 are ways to do it on LinkedIn, and our syndicates, 00:28:33.630 --> 00:28:35.750 and I know a lot of them as well, they just have 00:28:35.750 --> 00:28:37.990 a link underneath. So it's very similar to a 00:28:37.990 --> 00:28:39.970 lot of VCs have as well. You can fill the form, 00:28:40.750 --> 00:28:44.349 you can put your sort of name in and tell us 00:28:44.349 --> 00:28:46.190 a bit about your startup and if we think it's 00:28:46.190 --> 00:28:49.789 a fit and we like it, we'll reach out. So that 00:28:49.789 --> 00:28:51.930 sort of standard form filling procedure exists 00:28:51.930 --> 00:28:55.130 with everyone. So if they want to reach out to 00:28:55.130 --> 00:28:57.210 us through that, they can do that as well. Even 00:28:57.210 --> 00:28:59.029 on LinkedIn, there's a way to build a relationship. 00:28:59.579 --> 00:29:02.220 you know offer something of value or for something 00:29:02.220 --> 00:29:05.220 of diligence that we would be interested in and 00:29:05.220 --> 00:29:06.859 then through that you know if we're on a call 00:29:06.859 --> 00:29:08.319 and you know later down the line you're like 00:29:08.319 --> 00:29:10.359 hey this is the idea I'm working on this while 00:29:10.359 --> 00:29:13.299 I'm developed do you mind talking to your syndicate 00:29:13.299 --> 00:29:15.220 partners regarding this and then you know pass 00:29:15.220 --> 00:29:17.200 on like yeah cool one actually you touched upon 00:29:17.669 --> 00:29:20.009 this topic twice so I find quite interesting 00:29:20.009 --> 00:29:22.250 because that's something I try to do doesn't 00:29:22.250 --> 00:29:24.670 mean it always works or always pays out but I 00:29:24.670 --> 00:29:26.950 think we end up doing it regardless which is 00:29:26.950 --> 00:29:29.089 offer value before even start asking for anything 00:29:29.089 --> 00:29:32.269 in return right and you know if if people see 00:29:32.269 --> 00:29:34.329 it as valuable they will give you something in 00:29:34.329 --> 00:29:36.049 return if they don't see it as valuable you've 00:29:36.049 --> 00:29:37.970 just been a nice guy you help out a couple people 00:29:37.970 --> 00:29:39.829 right it doesn't doesn't hurt to do it anyways 00:29:39.829 --> 00:29:45.160 exactly so how do you How do you stop as an individual 00:29:45.160 --> 00:29:48.220 and say, I've offered too much free value. It's 00:29:48.220 --> 00:29:50.200 time for me to start charging for the value offer. 00:29:50.319 --> 00:29:52.299 So when, when do you actually make that decision? 00:29:53.220 --> 00:29:56.200 Yeah, I think, I think it's interesting and it's 00:29:56.200 --> 00:29:57.859 different for each person. They're, they're sort 00:29:57.859 --> 00:30:01.619 of threshold. And for me, when I went, when things 00:30:01.619 --> 00:30:05.220 really changed for me was when I realized I could 00:30:05.220 --> 00:30:08.400 offer things that are of value, which my competition 00:30:08.400 --> 00:30:12.779 charges for and still be fine with it. So one 00:30:12.779 --> 00:30:15.019 of the things that I did, and I can talk from 00:30:15.019 --> 00:30:17.599 my perspective here, in Venture Builder, one 00:30:17.599 --> 00:30:19.339 of the things, like I said, we do is helping 00:30:19.339 --> 00:30:21.940 startups fundraise, right? And one of the things 00:30:21.940 --> 00:30:24.119 with fundraisers, you need lists of investors, 00:30:24.319 --> 00:30:26.660 you need their details, and you need to know 00:30:26.660 --> 00:30:28.799 where the investor's based, how much they invest, 00:30:29.759 --> 00:30:32.160 so you can sort of figure out, and then they're 00:30:32.160 --> 00:30:33.380 past investments, so you can figure out, okay, 00:30:33.400 --> 00:30:35.400 who can I reach to? Where can I make the connection? 00:30:35.960 --> 00:30:38.589 How do I sort of start? you know, nurturing that 00:30:38.589 --> 00:30:42.789 relationship. And a lot of consultants or a lot 00:30:42.789 --> 00:30:44.970 of sort of agencies or a lot of sort of brands, 00:30:45.150 --> 00:30:48.970 they will charge for those mega lists. And fairly 00:30:48.970 --> 00:30:50.589 so, you know, I don't have any issue with them, 00:30:50.609 --> 00:30:52.609 you know, if they've spent the time in creating 00:30:52.609 --> 00:30:54.029 that list and, you know, they want to charge 00:30:54.029 --> 00:30:55.930 five, six hundred dollars for it. Fair enough. 00:30:57.319 --> 00:31:00.380 But I realized, you know, these lists were super, 00:31:00.380 --> 00:31:02.299 super popular. You know, they were getting thousands 00:31:02.299 --> 00:31:05.799 of comments and likes. And, you know, people 00:31:05.799 --> 00:31:07.539 would be interested in buying gear, a lot of 00:31:07.539 --> 00:31:10.259 people would buy it. And I was like, and again, 00:31:10.380 --> 00:31:12.039 I listened to Alex already and I was like, what 00:31:12.039 --> 00:31:15.799 if I give this for free? What if, you know, what 00:31:15.799 --> 00:31:18.039 are the biggest things my competition does? What 00:31:18.039 --> 00:31:20.839 if I do that for free? How would that look like? 00:31:21.319 --> 00:31:23.339 And that's when things really sort of change 00:31:23.339 --> 00:31:25.240 and people are like, how the hell is he offering? 00:31:25.500 --> 00:31:28.359 And I would really just buy out these lists for 00:31:28.359 --> 00:31:32.200 $300, $400 or spend a little money on softwares 00:31:32.200 --> 00:31:34.240 and curate these lists and I would have it for 00:31:34.240 --> 00:31:37.140 free. Those people were like, what is he doing? 00:31:37.420 --> 00:31:40.940 I had a few messages from a few guys. I think 00:31:40.940 --> 00:31:44.319 this guy was selling about 2 ,500 investor lists 00:31:44.319 --> 00:31:47.579 and I think I purchased it for a while. I can't 00:31:47.579 --> 00:31:48.740 remember these, I probably think it was four 00:31:48.740 --> 00:31:51.299 or five hundred dollars. And you know, his list, 00:31:51.380 --> 00:31:53.279 I took it and I just put it on LinkedIn for free. 00:31:53.339 --> 00:31:55.519 He's like, you can't do that. I was like, why 00:31:55.519 --> 00:31:59.740 can't I? You know, I've bought the list and you 00:31:59.740 --> 00:32:01.460 know, I can do whatever the hell I want with 00:32:01.460 --> 00:32:05.059 the list now. And yeah, but you're doing it for 00:32:05.059 --> 00:32:07.099 free. Like, you know, at least put something 00:32:07.099 --> 00:32:10.420 on it. I was like, well, you know, I didn't wish 00:32:10.420 --> 00:32:14.640 to. And for me, you know, that was enough value 00:32:14.640 --> 00:32:17.480 giving out for free, whereas for him, it wasn't. 00:32:17.779 --> 00:32:19.759 That's the one mention about threshold. But for 00:32:19.759 --> 00:32:21.480 me, it was like, you know, I could spend the 00:32:21.480 --> 00:32:23.500 same amount on ads and not get enough conversion. 00:32:23.980 --> 00:32:26.279 So for me, it was okay to give out all of that 00:32:26.279 --> 00:32:28.539 value and not get anything back. I was already 00:32:28.539 --> 00:32:32.140 fine with that level. Because, you know, at that 00:32:32.140 --> 00:32:34.519 early stage, I wasn't growing, it was very slow, 00:32:34.740 --> 00:32:38.470 minimal growth. So I was okay with that. So defining 00:32:38.470 --> 00:32:40.269 out this new technique was very much like, if 00:32:40.269 --> 00:32:42.150 it works, awesome. If it doesn't work, that's 00:32:42.150 --> 00:32:45.150 fine. I'm okay with that threshold. And so you 00:32:45.150 --> 00:32:47.470 need to sort of set up that perception and that 00:32:47.470 --> 00:32:50.109 threshold of like, okay, how much am I okay with? 00:32:50.230 --> 00:32:53.650 Am I okay with speaking to someone completely 00:32:53.650 --> 00:32:57.269 and them not being able to... repay me in any 00:32:57.269 --> 00:33:00.650 sort of way? Or do I want to safeguard something? 00:33:01.109 --> 00:33:03.690 You need to set that barrier for yourself. And 00:33:03.690 --> 00:33:05.829 I think as you grow, as you get bigger and bigger, 00:33:06.430 --> 00:33:09.569 that threshold gets higher and higher. So maybe 00:33:09.569 --> 00:33:11.369 two years ago when I was starting, I would have 00:33:11.369 --> 00:33:12.950 never been able to do it. One, because it was 00:33:12.950 --> 00:33:15.380 expensive. And second, I was like... I don't 00:33:15.380 --> 00:33:17.140 have that much value to give as an individual 00:33:17.140 --> 00:33:20.720 or as a company, so I need to hold off as much 00:33:20.720 --> 00:33:22.859 information. But now I'm like, fine. Even if 00:33:22.859 --> 00:33:24.640 they don't come to me, that's OK. I've still 00:33:24.640 --> 00:33:29.640 given them something. And that is of value. So 00:33:29.640 --> 00:33:32.819 I would say that that level changes there. And 00:33:32.819 --> 00:33:36.140 in terms of what else they can do to figure out 00:33:36.140 --> 00:33:38.680 where that level is, look at what the competition 00:33:38.680 --> 00:33:41.740 is doing. right and just be that one step ahead 00:33:41.740 --> 00:33:44.579 because you know the competition might be doing 00:33:44.579 --> 00:33:47.500 99 and there's this funny calculation in maths 00:33:47.500 --> 00:33:50.960 you know it's like one times 0 .99 will always 00:33:50.960 --> 00:33:53.339 be less than one but you know if you can go to 00:33:53.339 --> 00:33:57.000 one times you know just over that or 101 you 00:33:57.000 --> 00:33:59.980 know it'll incrementally go so much higher so 00:33:59.980 --> 00:34:02.480 just just try and make that threshold a little 00:34:02.480 --> 00:34:06.039 bit ahead of what the existence is. You think 00:34:06.039 --> 00:34:08.920 it's funny you mentioned investor this and I 00:34:08.920 --> 00:34:11.480 think a lot of startups always looking at ooh 00:34:11.480 --> 00:34:13.500 How do I find this email in that email? But reality 00:34:13.500 --> 00:34:16.019 is it's not hard to find the emails. It's hard 00:34:16.019 --> 00:34:19.210 to Engage in a proper conversation with people. 00:34:19.469 --> 00:34:21.590 That's what I find. Because you can send them 00:34:21.590 --> 00:34:24.230 everyone. You can send 25 ,000 cold emails. That 00:34:24.230 --> 00:34:26.409 doesn't mean they're not investing you. But if 00:34:26.409 --> 00:34:27.849 you take your time to actually say, you know, 00:34:27.869 --> 00:34:29.809 I got this email. Let me go and see what this 00:34:29.809 --> 00:34:32.389 person invests in and actually make a nice conversation 00:34:32.389 --> 00:34:34.989 afterwards. Then you're much more likely to have 00:34:34.989 --> 00:34:38.730 some money coming out. Exactly. You mentioned, 00:34:39.389 --> 00:34:41.750 Alex, I'm curious on what mentors you have. Like, 00:34:41.769 --> 00:34:45.329 who do you look out for? Who are you mentors? 00:34:46.400 --> 00:34:48.980 Yeah, so I used to have a mentor about two years 00:34:48.980 --> 00:34:52.059 ago, and he was a gentleman based out of the 00:34:52.059 --> 00:34:55.480 US. He sort of ran a few recruitment and tax 00:34:55.480 --> 00:34:58.300 agencies and then done well in business, but 00:34:58.300 --> 00:35:01.400 he wasn't really on the tech side and sort of 00:35:01.400 --> 00:35:03.300 startup side, but he'd done really, really well, 00:35:03.480 --> 00:35:07.139 a bit of plus. And I spoke to him in my early 00:35:07.139 --> 00:35:10.559 sort of days whilst I stayed in US for a month 00:35:10.559 --> 00:35:14.000 or so, understanding a bit more about the basics 00:35:14.000 --> 00:35:18.400 of business. In terms of now, I don't have any 00:35:18.400 --> 00:35:21.800 mentors currently, but I think Alex is one that 00:35:21.800 --> 00:35:24.400 I look up to quite a lot just because, again, 00:35:24.840 --> 00:35:28.579 he just gives out so much value for free. So 00:35:28.579 --> 00:35:31.159 much of his principles come from this is what 00:35:31.159 --> 00:35:33.719 I did and this is what you can take away from 00:35:33.719 --> 00:35:37.079 that. And I like that perspective because it's 00:35:37.079 --> 00:35:39.869 not that... You should do this. Well, why should 00:35:39.869 --> 00:35:42.170 I you know, because that's what people you know 00:35:42.170 --> 00:35:43.650 things were you know When someone's telling them 00:35:43.650 --> 00:35:45.329 to do something was like but when it comes to 00:35:45.329 --> 00:35:47.570 perspective of this is what I did and this was 00:35:47.570 --> 00:35:50.559 the result It's a lot more trusting and comforting 00:35:50.559 --> 00:35:52.579 in the fact that a person is telling from their 00:35:52.579 --> 00:35:54.980 perspective and these are the results he got 00:35:54.980 --> 00:35:57.260 himself So he does you know, he doesn't need 00:35:57.260 --> 00:35:59.579 to make something up, you know, people can see 00:35:59.579 --> 00:36:02.199 all of the accounts He's very transparent and 00:36:02.199 --> 00:36:03.980 there's a lot of sort of stuff that you know, 00:36:03.980 --> 00:36:06.159 he's applied whether that's work or hasn't work 00:36:06.159 --> 00:36:09.340 So he is one individual I look up a lot to and 00:36:09.340 --> 00:36:12.760 Cody Sanchez is another one Where you know, she 00:36:12.760 --> 00:36:16.280 started off quite small and now has been brought 00:36:16.280 --> 00:36:20.230 up a very reputable brand of buying and selling 00:36:20.230 --> 00:36:24.230 businesses and P activities and venture activities. 00:36:25.190 --> 00:36:27.269 And there's other sort of few individuals, you 00:36:27.269 --> 00:36:29.150 know, these newsletters and stuff I would read 00:36:29.150 --> 00:36:32.409 and then sort of try and, you know, stay up to 00:36:32.409 --> 00:36:34.289 date with. But, you know, those two are sort 00:36:34.289 --> 00:36:37.070 of big, because now I'm sort of focusing a lot 00:36:37.070 --> 00:36:40.750 on branding side of things as well. As the individual, 00:36:40.750 --> 00:36:44.030 you know, animal itself rather than just gags, 00:36:44.230 --> 00:36:49.079 you know, I'm trying to not separate it, but 00:36:49.079 --> 00:36:52.199 I understand that Gats is a part of me, but not 00:36:52.199 --> 00:36:54.880 me on its own. So I'm focusing on the aspect. 00:36:55.019 --> 00:36:56.639 I mean, these two guys have done that really, 00:36:56.639 --> 00:36:59.199 really well. And those two are probably the ones 00:36:59.199 --> 00:37:01.480 that I look up to the most. I completely get 00:37:01.480 --> 00:37:03.400 the personal branding because I'm incredibly 00:37:03.400 --> 00:37:05.739 shy, as you probably noticed by now. But one 00:37:05.739 --> 00:37:09.139 thing is I... Most most of the things I do, people 00:37:09.139 --> 00:37:11.099 don't realize it's me doing them. So I go and 00:37:11.099 --> 00:37:13.219 introduce myself. You know, for example, my events, 00:37:13.219 --> 00:37:15.440 I go, hey, I'm Ricardo. I'm one of the organizers 00:37:15.440 --> 00:37:17.820 here. And like, so you ran this? Yes, that's 00:37:17.820 --> 00:37:19.940 the she knows my company. I mean, you know, mine's 00:37:19.940 --> 00:37:22.519 in the area. Oh, no idea who you guys were, because 00:37:22.519 --> 00:37:24.699 both of us never do any proper branding. And 00:37:24.699 --> 00:37:26.420 I think that's something definitely to start 00:37:26.420 --> 00:37:28.519 working on is like how to sell myself a little 00:37:28.519 --> 00:37:30.940 bit better online, because it's always it's always 00:37:30.940 --> 00:37:34.760 a fine line between you sounding incredibly cocky 00:37:34.760 --> 00:37:36.880 and arrogant. And you realize what you're doing 00:37:36.880 --> 00:37:39.300 to just say, you know what, I just want to share 00:37:39.300 --> 00:37:42.840 the world to the world who I am. Right. So it's 00:37:42.840 --> 00:37:45.800 a tricky exercise. Yeah, no, absolutely. And 00:37:45.800 --> 00:37:47.480 I guess, you know, for some people, they don't 00:37:47.480 --> 00:37:49.300 want to do that. That's completely fine. You 00:37:49.300 --> 00:37:52.309 know, those people are very happy just. you know, 00:37:52.309 --> 00:37:55.349 working from the shadows, and it works for them. 00:37:55.349 --> 00:37:57.969 And that's great. But for me, I realized I wanted 00:37:57.969 --> 00:38:01.190 to be more than just a owner of a company. And, 00:38:01.309 --> 00:38:03.309 you know, I wanted to sort of be known as that 00:38:03.309 --> 00:38:06.210 young entrepreneur who's doing something, you 00:38:06.210 --> 00:38:08.750 know, different, who's sort of stirring and making 00:38:08.750 --> 00:38:11.949 waves. And I realized I couldn't do that. Just 00:38:11.949 --> 00:38:14.750 as the CEO and founder of Gax, I had to do that 00:38:14.750 --> 00:38:18.519 as animal. And, you know, Part of that is, you 00:38:18.519 --> 00:38:20.719 know, building up brand and, you know, I'm still 00:38:20.719 --> 00:38:23.079 very early days and, you know, I'm not a big 00:38:23.079 --> 00:38:25.579 social media guy, so I'll have to sort of bring 00:38:25.579 --> 00:38:28.340 someone in. And even though I'm young, you know, 00:38:28.420 --> 00:38:29.980 I still feel like a boomer. I'm always asking 00:38:29.980 --> 00:38:33.539 questions. What does this mean? What would you 00:38:33.539 --> 00:38:36.940 do? You know, tick tock. So, yeah, I'm still 00:38:36.940 --> 00:38:40.780 figuring that part out. I feel your pain. My 00:38:40.780 --> 00:38:42.960 Instagram etiquette, I always double check. Like, 00:38:42.960 --> 00:38:45.579 is it okay for me to follow someone if I just 00:38:45.579 --> 00:38:47.440 met them? Is that all right? Oh, even though 00:38:47.440 --> 00:38:49.300 I've been to their house multiple times and they've 00:38:49.300 --> 00:38:51.179 been to my house multiple times, it's still okay 00:38:51.179 --> 00:38:53.159 for me to follow them on Instagram. If you're 00:38:53.159 --> 00:38:54.579 like, yes, of course, it's perfectly normal. 00:38:54.699 --> 00:38:56.500 Oh, okay. All right. I thought you needed to 00:38:56.500 --> 00:38:58.579 be really, really close friends. So it's stuff 00:38:58.579 --> 00:39:00.519 like that that I'm still, I really struggle with. 00:39:00.679 --> 00:39:04.420 But yeah. So one very interesting question, at 00:39:04.420 --> 00:39:07.280 least for me, is what is the latest book you've 00:39:07.280 --> 00:39:12.179 read? Interesting. The most recent one, I think, 00:39:12.260 --> 00:39:15.820 was Atomic Habits. I'm not done with it and I've 00:39:15.820 --> 00:39:19.340 just started it. I'm one of those people who 00:39:19.340 --> 00:39:23.500 don't read, who likes to listen to books. I'm 00:39:23.500 --> 00:39:27.460 too ADHD to just sit down and read. So there's 00:39:27.460 --> 00:39:29.659 this app called Audible. I'm sure you already 00:39:29.659 --> 00:39:33.889 know. you know put in and listen to books at 00:39:33.889 --> 00:39:36.590 any time I'm on the way to the gym or I'm on 00:39:36.590 --> 00:39:39.010 the tube or I'm traveling somewhere I'm in the 00:39:39.010 --> 00:39:40.750 plane or something I'll just put that in I'll 00:39:40.750 --> 00:39:43.409 just listen to it and then you can save like 00:39:43.409 --> 00:39:47.570 notes on it so like little you know chunks of 00:39:47.570 --> 00:39:50.010 voice clips and where it serves a sentence which 00:39:50.010 --> 00:39:53.050 is really really good so one is to have it um 00:39:53.050 --> 00:39:57.590 and the last one um I was reading which one was 00:39:57.590 --> 00:40:03.130 it I think it was 48 laws of power or something. 00:40:03.309 --> 00:40:06.110 I can't remember the exact name of it. Yeah, 00:40:06.730 --> 00:40:10.789 yeah. So those two are the most recent reads 00:40:10.789 --> 00:40:14.750 or listens, I would say. Interesting. Enmore, 00:40:14.889 --> 00:40:16.269 if people want to reach out to you, how can they 00:40:16.269 --> 00:40:19.789 do so? Yeah, I would say the easiest way is LinkedIn. 00:40:20.550 --> 00:40:23.570 Reach out to me through that. My name's Enmore 00:40:23.570 --> 00:40:27.449 Coyle. So, you know, they want us to... put that 00:40:27.449 --> 00:40:30.710 in my face and reach out through that, connect 00:40:30.710 --> 00:40:34.610 with me. I'm quite active there. Or if you see 00:40:34.610 --> 00:40:37.369 me at an event, feel free to come in person, 00:40:37.590 --> 00:40:41.170 talk to me about yourself. Maybe Instagram as 00:40:41.170 --> 00:40:46.630 well. I'm now trying to build that brand so maybe 00:40:46.630 --> 00:40:49.130 you guys can be the first ones who start reaching 00:40:49.130 --> 00:40:50.750 out to me through that. I'm still very early 00:40:50.750 --> 00:40:54.949 days with it and that's theanmol. So if you want 00:40:54.949 --> 00:40:57.210 to reach out there as well, you can do that. 00:40:57.769 --> 00:40:59.409 All right, definitely. And well, thank you so 00:40:59.409 --> 00:41:01.210 much for your time. I really enjoyed our conversation. 00:41:02.110 --> 00:41:04.730 I appreciate you. Thanks for having me. Thank 00:41:04.730 --> 00:41:06.809 you. All right.