Hi and welcome to another episode of the Innovation
Conversation. Today we are joined by Anmol Goyal.
Anmol, welcome. Thanks for having me, Ricardo.
I really appreciate you. It's a pleasure having
you here. Anmol, would you like to introduce
yourself to the audience, please? Yeah, absolutely.
So in a few words, I am the owner of Gax Limited,
which is a tech venture builder and our aim is
to support startups from early stage all the
way up to scaling stage. and in more sort of
venture terminology from early seed stage to
series B, helping them with their development,
their scale up. So working with them on their
sales and as well as focusing on their fundraising
journey. I know you're quite a traveler, right?
Because you have been to multiple countries,
you go on multiple events as a speaker as well.
So how did that whole thing came about? Interestingly
enough, you know, so all the sort of the traveling
journeys, they've picked up since March. And
then that sort of was like my first big event
in Ibiza. So people always, you know, recently,
a lot of my friends have been noticing as well.
And they're like, wow, you know, overnight, you
traveled out to, you know, seven, eight locations.
But it's a funny story that no one saw that for,
you know, the last 18 months. And I was doing
all the work and I was putting out all the posts.
I was doing all the sort of the groundwork and
then now all of a sudden there's that overnight
success. So it always makes me chuckle. But no,
I tend to travel out for any sort of events where
there's need to sort of speak regarding startups,
regarding innovation, regarding acceleration
programs. The first one in Ibiza that happened
in March was the Ibiza Tech Forum. And the founder
of the forum, he reached out to me because I
would put out a lot of content regarding startups
in terms of how they can. reach to investors,
how they can, you know, effectively work on their
product market fit, work on sort of their market
journey and then scale up. And he saw that was
providing a lot of value and he thought, you
know, I should be an individual who should come
and speak at the event, luckily. And from there,
you know, I met some of the other guys in the
Spanish ecosystem and then, you know, some of
the London guys saw that I was speaking at events
in Spain and were like hey you know we know you're
from London and you've been going to Spain so
you might as well come speak in London and then
from there you know I sort of catapulted and
speaking at a few more Spanish locations and
now I've been asked if you know next sort of
come to a few Latin and countries as well. With
you you speak Spanish? No really. I can, I can
speak Spanish. Yeah, I wouldn't say I'm fluent,
but I would say I'm 80 90%. You know, I can pretty
much understand everything. Sometimes speaking,
you know, I'll be a bit hesitant when it's, you
know, the thing with Spanish is it's quite complicated
sometimes, you know, when you have to mix conditional
with past pressure rates and all those sort of
things. So when it gets super, super complicated,
I'm sometimes like, OK, well, what was the 10
centimeters of figure out in my head? But I can
pretty much understand everything. OK, so this
is actually quite interesting. So what do you
think are the key differences between these two
ecosystems, between the Spanish one and the UK
one, for example? Yeah, I think the Spanish ecosystem
is a lot more risk averse, which I guess, in
my opinion, I quite like. So I've, you know,
recently been part of a couple syndicates and
sort of, you know, we'll be opening our own fund.
And I'm starting to look things more from a investor's
perspective as well as sort of a venture builder's
perspective. And from an investor's side, having
as much traction and data behind is a good thing.
So the... The one big thing is obviously that
the financial investors don't like to take as
much risk. But then on the other hand, then you
see lack of innovation there. Well, you see London
as a big sort of tech hub in terms of what's
up and coming here, especially, you know, the
FinTech market in the sort of blockchain market
and an overall sort of AI developments that are
happening within London. You know, in the big
sort of hubs, which I would say is either Madrid
or Barcelona, that's the most of the innovations
happen in Spain. They're still quite lagging
just because the infrastructure and the risk
appetite isn't there. But if you're a early stage
investor and you want to invest in a startup,
you'll get a much fairer valuation being in the
Spanish economy compared to the London economy.
Do you think it's harder to get started? That's
an interesting question. See, I guess in terms
of both starting out, you can start off in either
markets. The biggest issue with any startup is
when they're starting out, they need to know
they need to address what problem they're solving.
So it doesn't really matter where you start.
It's more in terms of applicability. And I can
start the same product in both economies, but
I need to know who I'm targeting and what price
I'm going into the market with and what my overall
sort of landing strategy is. So I think that's
a bit more important in either economies. Maybe
I'll say there are a few more incentives in London
to sort of push people to go into that entrepreneurial
sort of journey and, you know, figure out the
ins and outs of and, you know, the overall support
system slightly bigger in terms of the events
that will happen and the programs that are available.
But I wouldn't say there's a massive difference
if you want to get started in either economies.
So one thing, how do you get started? in the
whole this, you know, what was your introduction
to the startup ecosystem like? Yeah, so mine
was actually a You know, I know people always
say I didn't mean to go here and I just landed
in it and it's a very cliche statement But it
genuinely truly is in my case and so my background
my education background is in maths economics
I was a valedictorian at the University of Liverpool
studying there and I I've done sort of placements
at Marsh McClennan in terms of data analytics
and I think I I've just done a short stint at
JP Morgan in the M &A division, realized I didn't
really want to go into IB. And I was coming back
to Marsh, Marsh, within Marsh division, sort
of coming back into the data and insurance role.
And whilst I was doing that, I decided to take
a couple of months out and travel to South America.
And whilst I was doing that, I think you know
what ready is, right? The platform. Yeah, so
I was on reddit and I came across this guy's
post on reddit, you know It's some sort of e
-commerce place asking about but you know, I
need help I'm setting up a new Store and you
know new company and he'll be selling jewelry
But I have this this and this tech side of things
that I'm unsure about how to price I'm unsure
about you know, how to market I'm unsure about
sort of validation and few other points and you
know, I'm just sitting in my hotel and I was
like Oh, actually, I know these answers, you
know, from studies, from application, and, you
know, in sort of the small stints of work that
I've done at that time. And I was like, okay,
cool. Well, you know, I'll write our response.
And, you know, I broke it down. I said, look
at your considering pricing to look at competitors,
you need to look at the market and supply change.
product market fit, you'd probably need to do,
you know, maybe friends and family and then in
around, you know, see what the response is and
a few other points regarding sort of marketing
with low budget. And he said, wow, thank you.
And, you know, he went away, came back after
a week and said, look, you know, I applied all
the sort of the things he said, and it was really,
really helpful, got really good data. Can we
get on a call next week and, you know, discuss,
I would love to sort of have you on board. And
I was like, yeah, sure. You know, thinking nothing
of it. And then his next message was, OK, cool,
how much you charge? I was like, charge? Interesting,
you know, I've never been asked this before.
And I was like, I really just don't know what
to say. So, you know, I went on Google, I was
like, how much do consultants charge? And I looked
at, you know, the job rate of it to like $40
an hour, I was like, $40 an hour? And he was
like, cool, can I book you in for five hours?
And I was like, sure. And, you know, two years
ago, out of nowhere, that's sort of how the journey
began. By that time, you know, I sort of was
doing freelance consulting on the side whilst
I was doing my roles at Marsh McLennan, so within
Marsh and then Merce, moving into sort of the
wealth management side of things and understanding.
the larger deals on the mutual funds, pension
funds and all those risk appetite sides of things.
And then as the, you know, the consulting sides
of things, you know, grew from one to five to
10, I realized I enjoyed that a bit more. I liked
sort of being, you know, rolling my sleeves up
and being in that startup ecosystem a lot more
decided to, you know, invest into myself, into
courses, into mentors. And then yes, went all
in. It's a great start. And it's actually funny
because you actually you started off in Reddit,
which most people use for, I don't know, commenting
on politics and football and stuff like that.
Exactly. Yeah. So funnily enough, yeah, my first
three clients were from Reddit. So, you know,
I mean, I've never used it, you know, sort of
after that, just because, you know, it was very,
very small ticket. But if it's not working out
for you on LinkedIn, maybe B2B, try Reddit. You
know, it could work out. There's a lot of cool
forums out there. Talking about a good product
market fit, right? I think part of it is where
a lot of people and just as a sort of a pointer
where a lot of people sort of miss out is providing
value first. And I sort of still try to do that
now. And that's something I picked up from Alex
or Mozi was, you know, too many people are too
eager and too early to just go out there and
go all sales mode, right? And start pitching
you something and start selling you something.
But that's sort of never been my focus. Never
then, never now. And I know that if I could provide
enough value, people will just come back to me.
I'll always keep a gateway open that you know
there there are ways to reach out to me whether
that be through LinkedIn or emails or whatever
everything is readily available but if I need
I need to give that value for them to come reach
out to me because that's always a much stronger
lead and people stay for much longer whereas
you know if you even if you are successful in
really sort of being that pushy salesman and
you close them the chances are you know yeah
they won't last so you know I always prefer to
sort of give value first give them something
for free, give them your example of what I can
possibly do for them and then you know make them
come to me. I think Sir Rosy is the guy who,
there's James Redd, he always has the thing on
his notes. Yeah. You know, fun fact about him,
he was actually sued by a gym owner who said
he was stealing his content and using it. Then
funny enough, Alex actually went back to this
guy and said, actually, you stole my content
and now you're suing me for using my content
that's been on the web for ages now. So obviously
the guy, you know, quit his lawsuit against him
because it was like, so it just goes to show
how important it is to add value to people before
even start charging them for it, isn't it? Yeah,
exactly. So you mentioned adding value. What
about, you know, you're looking at startups.
Can you pinpoint some of the red flags they always
have? Can you just from the get -go say, I don't
think it's going to be successful because of
A, B and C. And if so, what do they look like?
What are these red flags? I think in terms of
due diligence, there's really sort of four key
things that we look out for. The first thing
is primarily is product and in terms of, you
know, how good your product market fit is and,
you know, what problem your product itself is
solving and you know if you've created a chair
that is you know one percent more comfy than
what already exists and you know you're not really
moving the needle and and in terms of you know
how it sort of fits into the wider market and
what the demand for it is right maybe you can
create a really really super tech product but
if it's only solving a problem for like you know
five people then again the volume really isn't
there for an early investor to come in And the
second thing we then look at and is a bit of
a red flag is market sizing. So calculations
of time Samsung is, you know, it's a very interesting
topic, which is a lot of people don't know how
to calculate and they're trying to calculate
and it's a bit of a It was a bit of a rigorous
task to begin with, you know, figuring out what
your total addressable market, then your serviceable
market and then your obtainable market is. And
people always, you know, they misconstrued what
obtainable actually is. But, you know, that's
the second sort of part where they don't really
understand their market. They don't understand
who their competition is. And this is one of
the sort of the most occurring lines I've seen
investors say is and I'll give advice to any
of the startups that watch this is never ever
say you don't have any competitors. You know,
you're never the first person to think of the
idea. Maybe, you know, something exact into the
market doesn't really exist. Most likely, probably
does. But even if it doesn't, you'll still have
vertical and horizontal competition. The investor
needs to know what's already existing in the
market, and they need to better understand that
market. And they need to know that you understand
that market. So in the future, whether you want
to expand horizontally or vertically, you'll
be able to. So that's the second thing. Then
the third thing is financials and founders who
are slightly incompetent of understanding what
the valuation of the company is. One of the things
we're seeing a lot in the US domiciled companies
is these valuations of 10, 15, 20 million with
nothing built and just an idea. And ideas are
great. I love ideas. I love doing ideas, brainstorming
sessions with my team partners and so on and
so forth. ideas aren't really worth anything
themselves, it's the execution. So without the
execution, putting such high and immense value
onto something, and you know, most investors
will just, you know, pass it off. So And that's
the third thing. And then the fourth thing is
what we look at is the team itself. What's the
background of the team? What have the team achieved
so far? Why are they the right fit? So you said
Ren Flack. So if a team comes to me and say,
look, we're creating a cyber tech startup, none
of them have a background. They were taxi drivers.
And me and the restaurant owners are like, well.
How are you starting? What is your competency?
So you need to show that competency there as
well. So I think those four things are the main
things. We look at it from a due diligence perspective
when we're working on the investor side to ensure
any red flags are mitigated. Do you think, I
was actually, I've read two things, complete
opposite news. One said that investment has gone
down. The other one actually said investment
has actually gone up. So what do you think the
investment market looks right now? Because talking
to many founders, some say it's really, really
hard. Where other people say actually, no, it's
never been better. And if you look at the stats,
actually people are actually putting a lot of
money back in. So what does it look like for
you? What's your perspective on this? Yeah, I
guess neither are wrong. It just depends on when
you compare it to. So if you compare it to, you
know, peak of 2021, yes, sorry, peak of 2022,
end of 2021, yes, investment has gone down. But
if you compare it to... for last year, yes, investment
has gone up. And so it's your comparison scale,
in terms of what purple period in time you're
comparing it to. And in terms of now, I think
we hit a slump and you know, we're just coming
back in that period now where money is starting
to flow in. So Carter does really good reports
in terms of the stats on pre seed seed stage
series A series B stages funding and you know,
Q2, which recently just finished had very minimal
incremental increase. I think the average increase
was around one to two percent from the previous
quarter. So, yeah, the investment landscape is
sort of coming back to what normality was. But
so many people came into the entrepreneurial
world during or sort of post the pandemic crash.
And their understanding of what the market is,
is completely flawed. And, you know, they thought
that, you know, Korean is different from 1, 2,
2, 2, 2, 2, 2. where everyone had money that,
you know, they'll think of something and they'll
go to the investor, investors go, here's the
money, you know, here's 500 grand and you know,
you take it, you go invest. That's not really
the reality. And now we're coming back, you know,
we had the crash and it's coming back into market
correction phase where good ideas are now being
funded again, investors are starting to sort
of take risks and the previous investments are
now, you know, showing exits. So it's coming
to that correction phase where probably till
the end of the year or early 2025 we'll see.
And it being here, but maybe not on a peak, but
again, it's not on a horizontal or, you know,
vertical incline of some sorts. Interesting,
because I think you're the first person who actually
has done such a complete analysis of the way
the market works and also perspective on the
market. Quite interesting. What do you think?
So I know you do deals in multiple countries
and continents. We were actually talking before
that the only two places you have is Antarctica.
And where's the other one? Africa, yeah. I think
so. One will be easier than the other, I'm assuming.
What do you think are, is it harder to raise
in Europe than it is, for example, in the US?
Or is it harder to raise in Asia? How does that
actually compare? Even Latem, to be honest, I
don't know much about Latem, so how do they compare?
Yeah. In terms of ease of raising, I guess it
all sort of depends on competition, right? So
the U .S. market makes up roughly 51 % of global
venture market like venture microbe market. So
all of the sort of the inflow and the money and
the deals that are happening in the U .S., U
.S. alone, the rest of the world makes up that
much. So when people talk about ease, they think,
oh, well, it'll be so easy. But then you also
have to look at the number of startups in the
same economy. Because just because there's cash,
it doesn't mean it's easy because then you have
to compare it to the volume to make it easy for
people. Like if $100 is being invested, but there's
also 100 people, each person is only really getting
$1. But then, you know, in Spain, if there's
$10 being invested, but there's only five people,
actually, everyone's getting $2. And, you know,
it may be easier because there's less people
fighting for that. So yeah, from that perspective,
I would say US is a very attractive market, especially
on the tech and it rewards people for taking
risk. And as long as, you know, you are credible,
you've done something. And, you know, what you
have made is innovative and better for the world.
You should be able to get investment. And in
terms of the European market, European market
is I wouldn't put it as European market as a
whole because London operates very differently
to Berlin, which operates very differently to
Madrid, which operates very differently. and
to, you know, maybe somewhere like Kiev and now,
and, you know, somewhere maybe like Warsaw. So
these different economies and maybe Lisbon yourself,
I mean, Lisbon is doing quite well, you know,
as you know, so. Even these sort of different
economies in Europe sort of play a different
part and I wouldn't really be able to put them
together just because of their different mindsets.
But as part of sort of Western economy, London
being sort of at the peak where they're able
to take more risk and are more rewarding. But
again, the same volume of guys who are sort of
going into it, where the other markets are risk
averse. But in terms of how easy it is to raise,
it's not that easy to raise in Eastern European
economy. unless you are a exited founder or you
have a really, really solid proposition and that
is getting backed against or by a angel or a
known VC. And then off the back of that, you
see a lot of guys coming in. The interesting
thing about the Asian and Latin economies are
they're growing and a lot of governments are
putting a lot of money behind it as, you know,
plans in India, for example. I know the Indian
economy fairly well, you know, with the in Gujarat,
there's a state in India, there's a lot of government
investment, you know, they've put in very similar
to Dubai where this is zero. corporate tax area,
and they're inviting companies to come in. It's
still rather larger. I think it's for companies
who are making more than 50 million in revenue,
but that's a way to bring in these SMEs or MSMEs.
So those sort of countries, they're investing
a lot, even publicly and privately, into their
infrastructure. And same with Lafam. Mexico is
doing really, really well. as well as Colombia.
I know Mexico is central America before people
come to me. I still count it as part of Latam.
It's very different to the US economy. But Mexico
is doing really well. Colombia is doing really
well. Brazil always has been doing well. And
now the other Spanish speaking countries around
it are trying to play catch up. In those two
geographies, it's the involvement. from the public
sector and actively opening incubation centers
as well as giving out more subsidies, giving
out more grants, giving out more opportunities.
It's shaping the landscape in a very, very well
manner. When you talk with all these investors,
do they ever worry of having to start doing business
in other countries or other regions because of
the legal system, for example? And some people
might say, you know what, I get the UK legal
system, but if I move over, let's take Spain
as an example, I don't actually understand how
it fully works. I'm not willing to put my money
there because I might get hurt. Does that ever
happen? Yeah, no, definitely. There are a lot
of investors who are like, you know, I'm UK through
and through, or I'm spade through and through.
And most of the time you wouldn't see small ticket
angels, and when I mean small ticket, anyone
investing between 25 to 100k themselves, taking
those big risks unless the company itself has
a subsidiary in the other geography. so i know
some spanish companies who have an office in
england and then have an office in spain and
the investors they call because you have an office
here you you know you're part english part spanish
i'll sort of jump on board but but i think i
think it could be the standard because you know
it's a different language it's different sort
of judicial system spain is like as i said regulate
regulatory tight in terms of how you can set
up your accounts, how you can set up your laws,
restrictions, well, tighter compared to the UK
anyways. There is the habit of if the investor
in the UK doesn't speak Spanish, then there's
also that aspect of it. And on the earlier side,
and this is what I tend to focus on now for being
in syndicates, is what value can I add if I couldn't
add anything monetarily? And that's the biggest
thing I think about because, cool, you know,
you might get 50k, 60k, 100k, whatever, but if
I can make those right connections, if I can
put the right system, the right tools in place,
that should be ideally worth a lot more than
the money because the money will, you know, in
the start of being a system 550k, 100k is not
a big check. You know, that, you know, some companies
will blow that within two months. And right.
So from the investors, that's it. perspective,
they need to focus more on what connections can
we make and what we can do for the startup, which
is going to be worth a lot more than just the
cash they put in. And if that isn't something
they can, I would personally not go into that
deal very early on if you're a business angel.
If you are obviously the super angel with hundreds
of millions behind your back and you don't mind,
then that's fair enough. But if you're sort of
an earlier angel and you're sort of looking to
go into a different geography, understand the
culture, understand what you can bring to the
table, understand what you can do aside from
your money. And if you can't, you know, if those
don't add up, if two and two doesn't equal four
that, then... You mentioned syndicates. So I
know you're part of a couple. Can you tell the
audience how does that actually work? And most
importantly, should they just reach out to someone
in the syndicate saying, hey, can I get some
money? Does that actually work? Yeah. So syndication
is, I guess... It's a bunch of angels, also people
with money, coming together and saying look we'll
invest in the group. Usually how the main differentiation
between a fund and a syndication looks like is,
with funds there's an LP and a GP structure,
it's the limited partner and general partner,
and in the limited partners they will put money
into a pot. just visualizing it as a bit of pot.
And a general partner will have, in very layman's
terms, the ability to just spend the money as,
you know, as been agreed as part of the contract
of them signing in. So the money is a bit more
readily available, you know, when the startup
goes through due diligence process, and it's,
you know, cleared all the sort of the challenges
and due diligence, and it meets all the criteria,
the fund manager can just say, look, cool, you're
fit, you know, is a check for Q and a thousand.
It's a bit different syndicates where there's
groups of angels in a syndicate. Not everyone
will come in on a deal. It's very much on case
by case basis. So once the syndicate leads, brings
in a startup or a project, we will come in and
discuss, okay, well, this is a startup. This
is how much allocation we have. Who is it in?
more so kind of thing. And you know, people can
then put in, you know, let's say 10 investors
put in 20 grand checks out of 100 investors,
and they'll come in and what setup is called
an SPV, which is special purpose vehicle. And
using that, you know, we will fund around so
we will sit on the cap table as a SPV, which
is sort of a entity itself. And that also carry
it. So that's the sort of the main difference.
Sometimes the good thing with the syndicates
is it's a lot more quicker. In terms of hearing
the yes or no VC, they have to go through the
commit. I mean, there is also an investment committee
in the syndicate, but in VC is a lot more so
formalized. So you have to wait for their decision,
you have to go through multiple rounds of due
diligence. And then once it's cleared, then you
know, processing and getting money into the bank,
you know, sometimes can take three, four, five
months, or a syndicate a lot more. quick moving
where they're like yay, nay, in, out, cool, this
is the amount of allocation we can do, buy people
in, money in, money out and you know it's that
part of it but then it's also you don't know
how much money you're going to be getting with
the syndicate because you know in one deal a
lot of people might come in and in another you
know not many you know many might pull out and
those are sort of the key differences between
a syndicate and a regular fund that most people
know. And how do you approach them? Because I'm
assuming you can't really approach them in the
same way, especially when it has so many decision
makers, where I guess an investment fund will
have just one and you kind of know, okay, here's
this GP, let me go and introduce myself. So you
even get started with all this. Yeah, I think
in any ways, the best way to sort of approach
someone is in person or through a contact. I
mean, look, we all get, you know, spammed on
LinkedIn with like, you know, pitch decks, and
then, you know, people sort of doing that. So
I'll say definitely don't do that. I'll say that's
what not to do. You know, the first message from
you I don't want to see is, hey, my name is Bob,
and you know, this is my startup, this is what
I'm raising. And I'm like, pretending, you know,
we're meeting in public, right, you know, just
going to go try and sell me everything. the first
time you meet someone, you know, you just give
them bad taste. And so I would say ideally, if
you can go through either someone, you know,
so for example, if I'm in that syndicate and
you know, you know, a startup who might be a
fit, so they might come through you and say,
Hey, Ricardo, I know, you know, Andal, can you
please have a chat with him and see if he's open
to a email exchange? I really want to talk to
him about Xlambi. That's a great way. Or, you
know, I go to a lot of events, you know, a lot
of times that's maybe once a week in some cases.
So you'll see me there, come up to me then, because
at that point I'm ready to be pitched, because
I'm going to an event, especially if it's a networking
event about startups, about investment, at that
point I'm expected to be pitched. So at that
point, you can come to me and say, look, this
is what we're doing, can we be approached? There
are ways to do it on LinkedIn, and our syndicates,
and I know a lot of them as well, they just have
a link underneath. So it's very similar to a
lot of VCs have as well. You can fill the form,
you can put your sort of name in and tell us
a bit about your startup and if we think it's
a fit and we like it, we'll reach out. So that
sort of standard form filling procedure exists
with everyone. So if they want to reach out to
us through that, they can do that as well. Even
on LinkedIn, there's a way to build a relationship.
you know offer something of value or for something
of diligence that we would be interested in and
then through that you know if we're on a call
and you know later down the line you're like
hey this is the idea I'm working on this while
I'm developed do you mind talking to your syndicate
partners regarding this and then you know pass
on like yeah cool one actually you touched upon
this topic twice so I find quite interesting
because that's something I try to do doesn't
mean it always works or always pays out but I
think we end up doing it regardless which is
offer value before even start asking for anything
in return right and you know if if people see
it as valuable they will give you something in
return if they don't see it as valuable you've
just been a nice guy you help out a couple people
right it doesn't doesn't hurt to do it anyways
exactly so how do you How do you stop as an individual
and say, I've offered too much free value. It's
time for me to start charging for the value offer.
So when, when do you actually make that decision?
Yeah, I think, I think it's interesting and it's
different for each person. They're, they're sort
of threshold. And for me, when I went, when things
really changed for me was when I realized I could
offer things that are of value, which my competition
charges for and still be fine with it. So one
of the things that I did, and I can talk from
my perspective here, in Venture Builder, one
of the things, like I said, we do is helping
startups fundraise, right? And one of the things
with fundraisers, you need lists of investors,
you need their details, and you need to know
where the investor's based, how much they invest,
so you can sort of figure out, and then they're
past investments, so you can figure out, okay,
who can I reach to? Where can I make the connection?
How do I sort of start? you know, nurturing that
relationship. And a lot of consultants or a lot
of sort of agencies or a lot of sort of brands,
they will charge for those mega lists. And fairly
so, you know, I don't have any issue with them,
you know, if they've spent the time in creating
that list and, you know, they want to charge
five, six hundred dollars for it. Fair enough.
But I realized, you know, these lists were super,
super popular. You know, they were getting thousands
of comments and likes. And, you know, people
would be interested in buying gear, a lot of
people would buy it. And I was like, and again,
I listened to Alex already and I was like, what
if I give this for free? What if, you know, what
are the biggest things my competition does? What
if I do that for free? How would that look like?
And that's when things really sort of change
and people are like, how the hell is he offering?
And I would really just buy out these lists for
$300, $400 or spend a little money on softwares
and curate these lists and I would have it for
free. Those people were like, what is he doing?
I had a few messages from a few guys. I think
this guy was selling about 2 ,500 investor lists
and I think I purchased it for a while. I can't
remember these, I probably think it was four
or five hundred dollars. And you know, his list,
I took it and I just put it on LinkedIn for free.
He's like, you can't do that. I was like, why
can't I? You know, I've bought the list and you
know, I can do whatever the hell I want with
the list now. And yeah, but you're doing it for
free. Like, you know, at least put something
on it. I was like, well, you know, I didn't wish
to. And for me, you know, that was enough value
giving out for free, whereas for him, it wasn't.
That's the one mention about threshold. But for
me, it was like, you know, I could spend the
same amount on ads and not get enough conversion.
So for me, it was okay to give out all of that
value and not get anything back. I was already
fine with that level. Because, you know, at that
early stage, I wasn't growing, it was very slow,
minimal growth. So I was okay with that. So defining
out this new technique was very much like, if
it works, awesome. If it doesn't work, that's
fine. I'm okay with that threshold. And so you
need to sort of set up that perception and that
threshold of like, okay, how much am I okay with?
Am I okay with speaking to someone completely
and them not being able to... repay me in any
sort of way? Or do I want to safeguard something?
You need to set that barrier for yourself. And
I think as you grow, as you get bigger and bigger,
that threshold gets higher and higher. So maybe
two years ago when I was starting, I would have
never been able to do it. One, because it was
expensive. And second, I was like... I don't
have that much value to give as an individual
or as a company, so I need to hold off as much
information. But now I'm like, fine. Even if
they don't come to me, that's OK. I've still
given them something. And that is of value. So
I would say that that level changes there. And
in terms of what else they can do to figure out
where that level is, look at what the competition
is doing. right and just be that one step ahead
because you know the competition might be doing
99 and there's this funny calculation in maths
you know it's like one times 0 .99 will always
be less than one but you know if you can go to
one times you know just over that or 101 you
know it'll incrementally go so much higher so
just just try and make that threshold a little
bit ahead of what the existence is. You think
it's funny you mentioned investor this and I
think a lot of startups always looking at ooh
How do I find this email in that email? But reality
is it's not hard to find the emails. It's hard
to Engage in a proper conversation with people.
That's what I find. Because you can send them
everyone. You can send 25 ,000 cold emails. That
doesn't mean they're not investing you. But if
you take your time to actually say, you know,
I got this email. Let me go and see what this
person invests in and actually make a nice conversation
afterwards. Then you're much more likely to have
some money coming out. Exactly. You mentioned,
Alex, I'm curious on what mentors you have. Like,
who do you look out for? Who are you mentors?
Yeah, so I used to have a mentor about two years
ago, and he was a gentleman based out of the
US. He sort of ran a few recruitment and tax
agencies and then done well in business, but
he wasn't really on the tech side and sort of
startup side, but he'd done really, really well,
a bit of plus. And I spoke to him in my early
sort of days whilst I stayed in US for a month
or so, understanding a bit more about the basics
of business. In terms of now, I don't have any
mentors currently, but I think Alex is one that
I look up to quite a lot just because, again,
he just gives out so much value for free. So
much of his principles come from this is what
I did and this is what you can take away from
that. And I like that perspective because it's
not that... You should do this. Well, why should
I you know, because that's what people you know
things were you know When someone's telling them
to do something was like but when it comes to
perspective of this is what I did and this was
the result It's a lot more trusting and comforting
in the fact that a person is telling from their
perspective and these are the results he got
himself So he does you know, he doesn't need
to make something up, you know, people can see
all of the accounts He's very transparent and
there's a lot of sort of stuff that you know,
he's applied whether that's work or hasn't work
So he is one individual I look up a lot to and
Cody Sanchez is another one Where you know, she
started off quite small and now has been brought
up a very reputable brand of buying and selling
businesses and P activities and venture activities.
And there's other sort of few individuals, you
know, these newsletters and stuff I would read
and then sort of try and, you know, stay up to
date with. But, you know, those two are sort
of big, because now I'm sort of focusing a lot
on branding side of things as well. As the individual,
you know, animal itself rather than just gags,
you know, I'm trying to not separate it, but
I understand that Gats is a part of me, but not
me on its own. So I'm focusing on the aspect.
I mean, these two guys have done that really,
really well. And those two are probably the ones
that I look up to the most. I completely get
the personal branding because I'm incredibly
shy, as you probably noticed by now. But one
thing is I... Most most of the things I do, people
don't realize it's me doing them. So I go and
introduce myself. You know, for example, my events,
I go, hey, I'm Ricardo. I'm one of the organizers
here. And like, so you ran this? Yes, that's
the she knows my company. I mean, you know, mine's
in the area. Oh, no idea who you guys were, because
both of us never do any proper branding. And
I think that's something definitely to start
working on is like how to sell myself a little
bit better online, because it's always it's always
a fine line between you sounding incredibly cocky
and arrogant. And you realize what you're doing
to just say, you know what, I just want to share
the world to the world who I am. Right. So it's
a tricky exercise. Yeah, no, absolutely. And
I guess, you know, for some people, they don't
want to do that. That's completely fine. You
know, those people are very happy just. you know,
working from the shadows, and it works for them.
And that's great. But for me, I realized I wanted
to be more than just a owner of a company. And,
you know, I wanted to sort of be known as that
young entrepreneur who's doing something, you
know, different, who's sort of stirring and making
waves. And I realized I couldn't do that. Just
as the CEO and founder of Gax, I had to do that
as animal. And, you know, Part of that is, you
know, building up brand and, you know, I'm still
very early days and, you know, I'm not a big
social media guy, so I'll have to sort of bring
someone in. And even though I'm young, you know,
I still feel like a boomer. I'm always asking
questions. What does this mean? What would you
do? You know, tick tock. So, yeah, I'm still
figuring that part out. I feel your pain. My
Instagram etiquette, I always double check. Like,
is it okay for me to follow someone if I just
met them? Is that all right? Oh, even though
I've been to their house multiple times and they've
been to my house multiple times, it's still okay
for me to follow them on Instagram. If you're
like, yes, of course, it's perfectly normal.
Oh, okay. All right. I thought you needed to
be really, really close friends. So it's stuff
like that that I'm still, I really struggle with.
But yeah. So one very interesting question, at
least for me, is what is the latest book you've
read? Interesting. The most recent one, I think,
was Atomic Habits. I'm not done with it and I've
just started it. I'm one of those people who
don't read, who likes to listen to books. I'm
too ADHD to just sit down and read. So there's
this app called Audible. I'm sure you already
know. you know put in and listen to books at
any time I'm on the way to the gym or I'm on
the tube or I'm traveling somewhere I'm in the
plane or something I'll just put that in I'll
just listen to it and then you can save like
notes on it so like little you know chunks of
voice clips and where it serves a sentence which
is really really good so one is to have it um
and the last one um I was reading which one was
it I think it was 48 laws of power or something.
I can't remember the exact name of it. Yeah,
yeah. So those two are the most recent reads
or listens, I would say. Interesting. Enmore,
if people want to reach out to you, how can they
do so? Yeah, I would say the easiest way is LinkedIn.
Reach out to me through that. My name's Enmore
Coyle. So, you know, they want us to... put that
in my face and reach out through that, connect
with me. I'm quite active there. Or if you see
me at an event, feel free to come in person,
talk to me about yourself. Maybe Instagram as
well. I'm now trying to build that brand so maybe
you guys can be the first ones who start reaching
out to me through that. I'm still very early
days with it and that's theanmol. So if you want
to reach out there as well, you can do that.
All right, definitely. And well, thank you so
much for your time. I really enjoyed our conversation.
I appreciate you. Thanks for having me. Thank
you. All right.