WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.859 Welcome to the Innovation Conversation, a podcast 00:00:02.859 --> 00:00:05.419 about innovators, both in business and real life. 00:00:05.879 --> 00:00:08.380 Hosted by myself, Ricardo Rescual and Harry McCona. 00:00:08.500 --> 00:00:11.699 This podcast is also sponsored by ODEV Tech. 00:00:12.439 --> 00:00:14.640 ODEV Tech is your premier software development 00:00:14.640 --> 00:00:17.940 partner. Make sure you check them out at odev 00:00:17.940 --> 00:00:22.399 .tech. The podcast is also sponsored by Notion 00:00:22.399 --> 00:00:25.379 .so. Notion is offering six months for free for 00:00:25.379 --> 00:00:27.839 new users. Make sure you check out our website, 00:00:28.019 --> 00:00:30.640 thestoreofevents .co .uk to read in the software. 00:00:32.719 --> 00:00:35.020 Hi and welcome to another episode of the Innovation 00:00:35.020 --> 00:00:37.539 Conversation. Today we are joined by André Stoze. 00:00:37.679 --> 00:00:42.520 André, welcome. Thank you. André, would you like 00:00:42.520 --> 00:00:44.500 to tell the audience a little bit more about 00:00:44.500 --> 00:00:48.500 yourself and what you do? So I'm a mechanical 00:00:48.500 --> 00:00:50.859 engineer born and raised in Lisbon, Portugal. 00:00:51.780 --> 00:00:55.979 And yeah, after taking my education, I ended 00:00:55.979 --> 00:00:59.920 up working on a robotic startup. And after a 00:00:59.920 --> 00:01:03.020 bunch of things, I ended up starting a company 00:01:03.020 --> 00:01:05.719 called trip .com where currently we have 2 million 00:01:05.719 --> 00:01:08.799 users and we have been through the proper startup 00:01:08.799 --> 00:01:13.060 protocols here. So very happy to share. the experience 00:01:13.060 --> 00:01:16.599 with trip .com and the ongoing challenges that 00:01:16.599 --> 00:01:20.939 can be growing worldwide started. So how did 00:01:20.939 --> 00:01:28.700 trip .com get started? So basically in 2018 I 00:01:28.700 --> 00:01:31.099 came to Denmark to take a master's in product 00:01:31.099 --> 00:01:34.140 development and innovation and as part of my 00:01:34.140 --> 00:01:37.379 studies I had the opportunity to study in China 00:01:37.379 --> 00:01:41.659 during the summer and as part of that study program 00:01:41.840 --> 00:01:43.939 I had to come up with a business idea that would 00:01:43.939 --> 00:01:46.519 connect the Nordic countries with the Chinese 00:01:46.519 --> 00:01:52.879 market. And when I was doing the trip, I was 00:01:52.879 --> 00:01:56.079 also not only staying in China, but I was hopping 00:01:56.079 --> 00:01:58.599 between different cities around Asia. And that 00:01:58.599 --> 00:02:01.730 whole trip was a pain to plan. Like it took a 00:02:01.730 --> 00:02:04.450 long time and I thought like what we are doing 00:02:04.450 --> 00:02:06.849 here or what I'm doing as a human which is looking 00:02:06.849 --> 00:02:09.669 into big data tables from Google fights and trying 00:02:09.669 --> 00:02:12.289 to stitch different routes and find the cheapest 00:02:12.289 --> 00:02:15.830 tickets and the cool places to go probably could 00:02:15.830 --> 00:02:17.969 be done much better and faster by an algorithm. 00:02:18.830 --> 00:02:23.409 So when I was doing this course I basically ran 00:02:23.409 --> 00:02:26.490 with this idea in this course of a startup that 00:02:26.490 --> 00:02:29.319 would enable Chinese travelers to go to Europe 00:02:29.319 --> 00:02:31.840 and hop between different locations. And that 00:02:31.840 --> 00:02:34.360 was the start of TripleCom. Initially, I was 00:02:34.360 --> 00:02:37.340 thinking that I could assemble a Chinese team 00:02:37.340 --> 00:02:40.379 of developers and run things in Europe, having 00:02:40.379 --> 00:02:44.159 the Chinese people in China. But unfortunately, 00:02:44.400 --> 00:02:47.240 the developers that ended up being in the initial 00:02:47.240 --> 00:02:49.479 team, they didn't speak English. So that was 00:02:49.479 --> 00:02:52.879 quite a challenge to get things running. Yeah, 00:02:53.020 --> 00:02:58.240 it was an issue, yeah. A slight issue. So basically, 00:02:58.500 --> 00:03:01.180 what I said was, told myself, okay, this is not 00:03:01.180 --> 00:03:02.919 going to work with Chinese developers. I need 00:03:02.919 --> 00:03:05.560 to find friends and colleagues that can help 00:03:05.560 --> 00:03:08.639 me build these in Europe. And I had a bunch of 00:03:08.639 --> 00:03:11.780 friends from Lisbon, from technical, from Nova, 00:03:12.099 --> 00:03:14.740 and also from Denmark, very good engineers. I 00:03:14.740 --> 00:03:16.599 just grabbed the phone and told them, hey, I 00:03:16.599 --> 00:03:19.120 have this idea. I tried this with some Chinese 00:03:19.120 --> 00:03:21.919 developers. It didn't work out, would you guys? 00:03:22.189 --> 00:03:24.770 like to help me build this open -ended platform 00:03:24.770 --> 00:03:27.349 that can create dynamic trips from anywhere to 00:03:27.349 --> 00:03:31.250 anywhere. And that was the starting point, was 00:03:31.250 --> 00:03:34.129 basically this relatively small group of five 00:03:34.129 --> 00:03:36.629 other people besides me, all software engineers 00:03:36.629 --> 00:03:40.509 working, then COVID came working on this project 00:03:40.509 --> 00:03:45.590 in our homes during our free time. And then it 00:03:45.590 --> 00:03:49.270 started gaining size and the engine getting better 00:03:49.270 --> 00:03:52.469 and better. which led us to quit our jobs and 00:03:52.469 --> 00:03:56.110 start for time on the company. Interesting. Were 00:03:56.110 --> 00:04:00.129 you in Lisbon at the time or you were back in 00:04:00.129 --> 00:04:06.490 Denmark? No, I was back in Denmark. I started 00:04:06.490 --> 00:04:10.870 this project at the end of my first year of master's 00:04:10.870 --> 00:04:14.729 education and I was running with it for the Covid 00:04:14.729 --> 00:04:18.560 year, basically in 2020. and then I started working 00:04:18.560 --> 00:04:21.420 for the university in Denmark as a research assistant 00:04:21.420 --> 00:04:24.079 doing something totally different with com site 00:04:24.079 --> 00:04:27.939 materials research lecturing students but still 00:04:27.939 --> 00:04:30.600 keeping basically the pep project in a way on 00:04:30.600 --> 00:04:32.879 the side with my colleagues and we would have 00:04:32.879 --> 00:04:36.579 weekly meetings about trip .com and work slowly 00:04:36.579 --> 00:04:40.939 on the project and then it got to a point where 00:04:40.939 --> 00:04:43.240 like the engine was giving really good recommendations. 00:04:43.709 --> 00:04:46.949 It was also maybe because at that time flight 00:04:46.949 --> 00:04:50.209 tickets were very cheap. So the engine like it 00:04:50.209 --> 00:04:52.050 could come up with a bunch of combinations and 00:04:52.050 --> 00:04:54.009 actually it was like amazing because it was super 00:04:54.009 --> 00:04:56.769 affordable. But we felt like the combinations 00:04:56.769 --> 00:04:58.569 that were suggested by the engine were pretty 00:04:58.569 --> 00:05:01.910 good. So we had something to go crazy basically 00:05:01.910 --> 00:05:05.889 at quit our jobs. And that's what we did. Myself 00:05:05.889 --> 00:05:09.490 and our CTO Elio, he was working for a startup 00:05:09.490 --> 00:05:11.569 in Portugal. He decided also to quit his job. 00:05:11.769 --> 00:05:15.389 together with another Danish colleague and we 00:05:15.389 --> 00:05:18.230 had no money in the account basically and we 00:05:18.230 --> 00:05:20.769 just had the will of creating something that 00:05:20.769 --> 00:05:24.009 would enable people to travel much easier and 00:05:24.009 --> 00:05:26.170 go to places that they wouldn't be expecting 00:05:26.170 --> 00:05:31.870 if it wasn't for our recommendations. I'm assuming 00:05:31.870 --> 00:05:34.949 at some stage you went and got some funding to 00:05:34.949 --> 00:05:36.990 continue this or you're completely self -funded? 00:05:38.189 --> 00:05:41.689 No, no, actually from the starting point, I remember 00:05:41.689 --> 00:05:44.949 my first speech about trip .com was in China. 00:05:45.370 --> 00:05:47.589 I was pitching to it to a group of investors. 00:05:47.949 --> 00:05:51.889 I asked for basically 40 ,000 euros for, I think 00:05:51.889 --> 00:05:55.110 it was like a 15 % stake or 25 % stake in the 00:05:55.110 --> 00:05:59.529 company. So from the get -go, I was trying to 00:05:59.529 --> 00:06:02.129 raise money for the project. We just didn't get 00:06:02.129 --> 00:06:04.480 money. So we had to, especially during COVID 00:06:04.480 --> 00:06:07.040 times, no one wanted to invest in a travel project. 00:06:07.279 --> 00:06:09.540 So we just had to basically bootstrap and do 00:06:09.540 --> 00:06:14.279 things by ourselves. When it came to us quitting 00:06:14.279 --> 00:06:17.439 our jobs, we were lucky enough that after three 00:06:17.439 --> 00:06:20.100 months of quitting our jobs, and basically having 00:06:20.100 --> 00:06:23.639 no money in the company by then, that we got 00:06:23.639 --> 00:06:27.420 two angel investors from Denmark that said, we 00:06:27.420 --> 00:06:31.779 don't really get this engine. We like the team. 00:06:32.120 --> 00:06:34.019 We like the fact that you guys are crazy, that 00:06:34.019 --> 00:06:36.800 we quit your jobs to do this. We like your big 00:06:36.800 --> 00:06:39.779 ambition. So they gave us basically each one 00:06:39.779 --> 00:06:45.620 about 40 ,000 euros each one. And we got also 00:06:45.620 --> 00:06:48.259 the support of the Danish Innovation Fund, Danish 00:06:48.259 --> 00:06:51.620 Pro Fund. So we did what we could call a pre 00:06:51.620 --> 00:06:54.899 -sig round of 250 ,000 euros. That was our first 00:06:54.899 --> 00:06:59.569 basically capital raise as a startup. Was it 00:06:59.569 --> 00:07:03.790 hard to start a company in Denmark overall? Because 00:07:03.790 --> 00:07:06.189 for example in the UK I think it's fairly easy 00:07:06.189 --> 00:07:08.670 to start a company but how is it like in Denmark? 00:07:10.350 --> 00:07:12.970 Well, at the beginning I was a bit lost. It's 00:07:12.970 --> 00:07:15.949 very digital Denmark. The system is there actually 00:07:15.949 --> 00:07:18.470 to help you so everything should be very easy 00:07:18.470 --> 00:07:21.569 but I don't speak Danish or I don't speak almost 00:07:21.569 --> 00:07:24.589 anything of Danish so it gets a bit difficult. 00:07:25.990 --> 00:07:30.379 By then we had a guy called Jordan that was advising 00:07:30.379 --> 00:07:34.980 us in this kind of procedures. So I created the 00:07:34.980 --> 00:07:37.800 company and created a holding company, but it 00:07:37.800 --> 00:07:40.779 was not done very properly. So he was then able 00:07:40.779 --> 00:07:45.120 to fix the things and make it right. But I think 00:07:45.120 --> 00:07:48.360 the Danish side is very helpful in anything. 00:07:48.779 --> 00:07:51.160 There is plenty of financing opportunities, soft 00:07:51.160 --> 00:07:54.000 funding basically. So it's a very friendly environment. 00:07:55.180 --> 00:07:57.860 And how, you know, you actually mentioned the 00:07:57.860 --> 00:08:01.000 ecosystem. How is the ecosystem over there for 00:08:01.000 --> 00:08:03.259 startups? Because everyone knows that, you know, 00:08:03.459 --> 00:08:07.019 the taxes are incredibly high. So is it still 00:08:07.019 --> 00:08:09.160 the case when it comes to startups? So you actually 00:08:09.160 --> 00:08:11.740 have some type of tax deduction or exemption? 00:08:12.500 --> 00:08:15.920 Well, a funny fact is that at least for salaries, 00:08:16.220 --> 00:08:19.379 taxes are very much in line with what we would 00:08:19.379 --> 00:08:21.360 be paying in Portugal. Actually, it's the same. 00:08:22.279 --> 00:08:25.199 And with the added benefit that things in Denmark 00:08:25.199 --> 00:08:28.680 are just easier. If, for example, as an employee, 00:08:29.240 --> 00:08:35.340 I set my monthly wage as 3 ,000 euros, this is 00:08:35.340 --> 00:08:37.879 how much I'm going to spend. For Android, it's 00:08:37.879 --> 00:08:40.720 3 ,000 euros. Well, in Portugal, you pay 3 ,000 00:08:40.720 --> 00:08:42.899 euros, but actually, you are not going to pay 00:08:42.899 --> 00:08:44.899 3 ,000 euros. You're going to pay much more because 00:08:44.899 --> 00:08:47.360 you have all these hidden taxes. So in that sense, 00:08:47.480 --> 00:08:51.059 I think the system is very straightforward. And 00:08:51.059 --> 00:08:53.639 at the end of the day, you end up with 45, 50 00:08:53.639 --> 00:08:59.159 % almost tax. But if you are being paid 3 ,000 00:08:59.159 --> 00:09:01.039 years per month in Portugal, there are going 00:09:01.039 --> 00:09:03.340 to be taxed almost 50 % as well when you're looking 00:09:03.340 --> 00:09:05.259 to how much money the company is putting and 00:09:05.259 --> 00:09:07.480 how much money you get after taxes at the end 00:09:07.480 --> 00:09:10.779 of the month. So I quite like the Danish system. 00:09:12.139 --> 00:09:18.440 In terms of the startup ecosystem, Denmark is 00:09:18.440 --> 00:09:20.220 a place where there is a lot of protections. 00:09:20.820 --> 00:09:24.200 So people don't feel stressed. There is never 00:09:24.200 --> 00:09:29.460 the pressure to basically what is going to happen 00:09:29.460 --> 00:09:32.639 after I graduate or like what happens if I get 00:09:32.639 --> 00:09:36.659 out of job. Like I think people have a easier 00:09:36.659 --> 00:09:39.840 life and that looks like sometimes, and this 00:09:39.840 --> 00:09:42.720 is a generalization on the startup culture, that 00:09:42.720 --> 00:09:46.539 many people don't go into startups because like, 00:09:46.700 --> 00:09:49.350 why would I do so? why would I risk all the headaches 00:09:49.350 --> 00:09:51.549 and uncertainty when I can have a certain life 00:09:51.549 --> 00:09:54.830 with a very well -paid job in a big company. 00:09:55.730 --> 00:09:58.629 However, I think like in any country that there 00:09:58.629 --> 00:10:02.769 is that like 1 % or 2 % of people that are crazy 00:10:02.769 --> 00:10:06.269 in a way but also very eager to create their 00:10:06.269 --> 00:10:09.789 own things and to just physically build something 00:10:09.789 --> 00:10:12.750 from scratch. I do find like that those kind 00:10:12.750 --> 00:10:16.519 of things they are incredibly They have an extremely 00:10:16.519 --> 00:10:18.779 good education that is very practical in many 00:10:18.779 --> 00:10:21.980 things and they excel. And that's why I think 00:10:21.980 --> 00:10:25.399 you see many Danish unicorns or some decent Danish 00:10:25.399 --> 00:10:29.220 unicorns that have an impact. Interesting. And 00:10:29.220 --> 00:10:31.159 do you think that, you know, people over there, 00:10:31.279 --> 00:10:33.220 you mentioned they're not very risk prone on 00:10:33.220 --> 00:10:35.120 that they actually don't see the point in joining 00:10:35.120 --> 00:10:38.100 a startup in the first go. But is the government 00:10:38.100 --> 00:10:40.360 trying to change that overall? Like, are they 00:10:40.360 --> 00:10:44.149 giving out grants and stuff like that? So basically, 00:10:44.549 --> 00:10:46.629 from the Danish government side, you have two 00:10:46.629 --> 00:10:48.970 mechanisms. You have the Innovation Fund. The 00:10:48.970 --> 00:10:53.190 Innovation Fund, they have basically one reasonably 00:10:53.190 --> 00:10:56.269 big program, which is called InnoFounder, where 00:10:56.269 --> 00:10:58.929 you are actually paid to be on your own startup. 00:10:59.649 --> 00:11:02.549 So you can be paid 3 ,000 euros per month to 00:11:02.549 --> 00:11:04.950 be on your own startup. So talk about the Danish 00:11:04.950 --> 00:11:07.269 security. They found a way to basically insert 00:11:07.269 --> 00:11:11.029 Danish security into the system. no equity, they 00:11:11.029 --> 00:11:14.169 will ask you nothing, will be when you're being 00:11:14.169 --> 00:11:17.029 subsidized basically by this program. And that 00:11:17.029 --> 00:11:19.950 was a program that we got when we started, which 00:11:19.950 --> 00:11:23.169 was wonderful for us because it enabled us. We 00:11:23.169 --> 00:11:25.789 were a mixture of Portuguese people, Danish people. 00:11:26.049 --> 00:11:28.889 It enabled the team all to come together in Denmark. 00:11:29.169 --> 00:11:32.470 So we had two people from Portugal that were 00:11:32.470 --> 00:11:35.190 under this program, basically being paid by the 00:11:35.190 --> 00:11:37.970 company to work on the company, which was really 00:11:37.970 --> 00:11:41.440 lovely. And then the second mechanism is the 00:11:41.440 --> 00:11:44.360 Danish Growth Fund, which will basically end 00:11:44.360 --> 00:11:47.600 out loans with quite favorable conditions for 00:11:47.600 --> 00:11:49.720 Danish startups. Of course, you'll need to pay 00:11:49.720 --> 00:11:52.440 it back if you don't go bankrupt before that, 00:11:53.200 --> 00:11:56.340 but it's quite friendly conditions and they have 00:11:56.340 --> 00:11:59.179 been supporting also a lot of companies. But 00:11:59.179 --> 00:12:02.200 these are the two main basically supporters, 00:12:02.399 --> 00:12:04.259 like when we talk about bigger panning, it's 00:12:04.259 --> 00:12:07.090 Innovation Fund and the Growth Fund. It's actually, 00:12:07.110 --> 00:12:09.710 it's pretty good. I mean, if you, if you're able 00:12:09.710 --> 00:12:11.269 to launch a startup and you're already getting 00:12:11.269 --> 00:12:14.269 paid by the government salary, that's actually, 00:12:14.309 --> 00:12:15.990 it's a very good deal because in the beginning, 00:12:15.990 --> 00:12:17.970 there's never any, any revenue coming in unless 00:12:17.970 --> 00:12:19.889 you're extremely likely and actually have an 00:12:19.889 --> 00:12:23.690 amazing product market. So it's one of those 00:12:23.690 --> 00:12:28.690 moments where you see you are paying almost 50 00:12:28.690 --> 00:12:31.610 % tax, but it goes somewhere. It's like the same 00:12:31.610 --> 00:12:34.250 with our education. If you study in Denmark, 00:12:34.980 --> 00:12:37.480 as a bank you are also going to be paid by the 00:12:37.480 --> 00:12:41.259 state and that's about 800 euros per month after 00:12:41.259 --> 00:12:44.460 taxes so it's pretty good that you are paid throughout 00:12:44.460 --> 00:12:48.460 every month of your education so at least you 00:12:48.460 --> 00:12:50.740 see that some of the money is being put to good 00:12:50.740 --> 00:12:55.960 use and it's being used to basically people studying 00:12:55.960 --> 00:12:59.480 and also to boost your innovation. That makes 00:12:59.480 --> 00:13:01.559 sense and tell me tell me about trip. I mean 00:13:01.559 --> 00:13:04.100 you guys launched in 2020 We're talking about 00:13:04.100 --> 00:13:07.779 this and then we kind of went Off track a little 00:13:07.779 --> 00:13:10.200 bit and how how is it going now? Because you're 00:13:10.200 --> 00:13:12.259 still up and running So I'm assuming the last 00:13:12.259 --> 00:13:14.940 what 44 or five years have been fairly successful. 00:13:15.360 --> 00:13:18.399 The website looks amazing. So yet, how is it 00:13:18.399 --> 00:13:22.350 going right now? Yeah, thank you. So Just to 00:13:22.350 --> 00:13:26.649 close the round conversation, so in 2023, in 00:13:26.649 --> 00:13:28.409 the beginning of the year, we raised another 00:13:28.409 --> 00:13:33.149 round of 500K euros. That round was with a VC, 00:13:33.269 --> 00:13:36.509 so it was more like a bigger round in a way. 00:13:36.769 --> 00:13:39.470 We also had angel investors and again, the growth 00:13:39.470 --> 00:13:44.909 fund also supporting us. To go back a bit with 00:13:44.909 --> 00:13:47.610 what was our initial idea with RIP .com and how 00:13:47.610 --> 00:13:50.629 it turned out to be, our initial idea was we 00:13:50.629 --> 00:13:55.090 want a place where first the engine knows all 00:13:55.090 --> 00:13:58.090 the flights, all the trains if possible, and 00:13:58.090 --> 00:14:00.570 a lot of the process data for the whole year. 00:14:01.090 --> 00:14:03.269 So it doesn't matter where you are in the world 00:14:03.269 --> 00:14:06.750 as a user, the platform should know from now 00:14:06.750 --> 00:14:09.590 till the next year what are the different possibilities 00:14:09.590 --> 00:14:13.250 for you to travel from any location to any location. 00:14:13.840 --> 00:14:17.440 And this has been the first basically cornerstone 00:14:17.440 --> 00:14:20.600 for us is have a very complete picture of what 00:14:20.600 --> 00:14:22.820 are the possibilities and routes around the world. 00:14:23.399 --> 00:14:26.679 And the second cornerstone is with this very 00:14:26.679 --> 00:14:29.840 big data set, how can we do smart combinations 00:14:29.840 --> 00:14:33.019 that are likely to interest users? So basically 00:14:33.019 --> 00:14:36.539 I can grab a flight from Lisbon to Copenhagen 00:14:36.539 --> 00:14:40.549 and that flight can cost 200, 300 euros. Is that 00:14:40.549 --> 00:14:42.970 a good deal? Is that something that if I push 00:14:42.970 --> 00:14:45.450 to Ricardo, is it something that is likely to 00:14:45.450 --> 00:14:49.250 interest him? And that has been like our second 00:14:49.250 --> 00:14:52.169 big, basically source of headaches and source 00:14:52.169 --> 00:14:55.750 of work is how can we have an engine that stitches 00:14:55.750 --> 00:14:57.789 different tickets to get rid of accommodation 00:14:57.789 --> 00:15:01.049 in a way that is likely to interest users. We 00:15:01.049 --> 00:15:04.549 started with this vision. And then I think I 00:15:04.549 --> 00:15:08.009 started also realizing it didn't come as part 00:15:08.009 --> 00:15:13.220 of the initial pitch, but having algorithms decide 00:15:13.220 --> 00:15:16.879 what I'm going to basically digest as a human 00:15:16.879 --> 00:15:20.340 is becoming very mainstream. Like back 10 years 00:15:20.340 --> 00:15:22.460 ago, I would go to YouTube and I would search 00:15:22.460 --> 00:15:25.220 for things. I would search for cat videos. Now 00:15:25.220 --> 00:15:28.720 I go to YouTube and the algorithm, I never search 00:15:28.720 --> 00:15:30.860 for anything on YouTube. The algorithm is understanding 00:15:30.860 --> 00:15:34.059 who I am and suggest me things for me. So that 00:15:34.059 --> 00:15:37.879 has become the big goal for 3 .1 is being the 00:15:37.879 --> 00:15:39.759 platform that for the travel industry is able 00:15:39.759 --> 00:15:41.899 to understand who you are as a consumer and give 00:15:41.899 --> 00:15:43.960 you the travel suggestions that are likely to 00:15:43.960 --> 00:15:46.840 interest you. So that has become like our main 00:15:46.840 --> 00:15:49.720 focus. And because of that, that's why we created 00:15:49.720 --> 00:15:51.960 such an open platform where you don't need to 00:15:51.960 --> 00:15:53.539 input dates, you don't need to input where you 00:15:53.539 --> 00:15:57.539 want to go, any sort of budget or restrictions, 00:15:57.919 --> 00:16:00.279 like the platform will just find what is likely 00:16:00.279 --> 00:16:03.940 interest to you. Interesting. How are you doing? 00:16:04.159 --> 00:16:05.799 I'm assuming there's a lot of machine learning, 00:16:05.860 --> 00:16:09.740 a lot of AI also running on the background. How 00:16:09.740 --> 00:16:12.419 hard was it to get that started and implemented 00:16:12.419 --> 00:16:18.419 from day one, I guess? You need to start in a 00:16:18.419 --> 00:16:22.360 simple format, which is very tough in the travel 00:16:22.360 --> 00:16:25.259 industry because the main barrier to entrances 00:16:25.259 --> 00:16:27.059 is how are you going to get the flight data? 00:16:27.179 --> 00:16:29.580 How are you going to get the trains data? Because 00:16:29.580 --> 00:16:31.820 there is no single platform where you can just 00:16:32.039 --> 00:16:35.120 take that data from and use it. So those were 00:16:35.120 --> 00:16:38.440 some of our initial difficulties. It required 00:16:38.440 --> 00:16:42.440 basically quite a decent sized team. So we have 00:16:42.440 --> 00:16:44.820 basically at the moment like 12 developers working 00:16:44.820 --> 00:16:47.419 full time on the project. And this group has 00:16:47.419 --> 00:16:49.840 a ton of API integrations. It requires scraping 00:16:49.840 --> 00:16:52.440 different sources. It requires taking data from 00:16:52.440 --> 00:16:54.840 different companies so that we can build this 00:16:54.840 --> 00:16:57.919 very big data set. And when we talk about like 00:16:57.919 --> 00:17:00.419 our big data set, we are talking currently about 00:17:00.419 --> 00:17:03.039 more than 70 million flights, trains and buses 00:17:03.039 --> 00:17:05.480 that every day basically we need to keep updated. 00:17:05.960 --> 00:17:08.519 So without exaggerating like in a math we'll 00:17:08.519 --> 00:17:10.859 take more than we'll take billions of data points 00:17:10.859 --> 00:17:13.660 to update basically this 70 million flights, 00:17:13.660 --> 00:17:16.039 trains and buses. So in terms of infrastructure 00:17:16.039 --> 00:17:19.480 is quite expensive and there is a lot of groundwork 00:17:19.480 --> 00:17:22.799 then to create this very big system. And then 00:17:22.799 --> 00:17:26.039 in terms of the recommendation algorithm, it's 00:17:26.039 --> 00:17:29.420 kind of this problem where to give good recommendations, 00:17:29.599 --> 00:17:32.599 you need customer data, right? And to get customer 00:17:32.599 --> 00:17:35.279 data, you need a good product. So at the beginning, 00:17:35.640 --> 00:17:38.460 we did a lot of assumptions of what would be 00:17:38.460 --> 00:17:41.619 likely to interest people. And we have been replacing 00:17:41.619 --> 00:17:44.200 those assumptions by our deep learning model 00:17:44.200 --> 00:17:46.680 that is understanding based on our big customer 00:17:46.680 --> 00:17:49.460 data, what have been the patterns in terms of 00:17:49.460 --> 00:17:52.039 conversion, in terms of what is interesting people 00:17:52.039 --> 00:17:55.500 to click to basically. change trips, like all 00:17:55.500 --> 00:17:59.200 of these different user behaviors. Interesting. 00:17:59.859 --> 00:18:02.740 It's a fascinating marketing ring because there's, 00:18:02.740 --> 00:18:04.980 I guess there's been platforms like this for 00:18:04.980 --> 00:18:07.119 quite some time, but I don't think they've gone 00:18:07.119 --> 00:18:10.500 that deep into what the possibilities are for 00:18:10.500 --> 00:18:13.039 the traveling industry, right? I'm thinking, 00:18:13.039 --> 00:18:14.599 I don't know, Kayak or something like that, which 00:18:14.599 --> 00:18:16.539 I'm sure is one of your competitors. But at the 00:18:16.539 --> 00:18:18.000 same time, I don't think they do half of what 00:18:18.000 --> 00:18:22.160 you do. So it's quite interesting. Like the industry 00:18:22.160 --> 00:18:25.680 is from Atletina, funny way. This idea for trip 00:18:25.680 --> 00:18:28.240 .com of having a super travel platform, finding 00:18:28.240 --> 00:18:31.839 the nice combinations, being quite open is nothing 00:18:31.839 --> 00:18:34.240 new. It has been one of the holy grails in the 00:18:34.240 --> 00:18:36.339 travel industry, but it has never been done. 00:18:36.799 --> 00:18:39.460 And I think there are two main reasons for it 00:18:39.460 --> 00:18:42.480 never have been realized. The first reason is 00:18:42.480 --> 00:18:44.880 just barriers to entrance. If you come as a startup, 00:18:45.519 --> 00:18:47.880 the amount of developer hours, the amount of 00:18:47.880 --> 00:18:50.440 complexity that you'll need to build to create 00:18:50.440 --> 00:18:52.609 something like this, it's just crazy. Basically, 00:18:52.690 --> 00:18:55.450 we have been working on this for more than three 00:18:55.450 --> 00:18:58.630 years. There's still a lot of things to be done. 00:19:00.029 --> 00:19:02.490 The second thing is that the industry has been 00:19:02.490 --> 00:19:05.230 formatted in a funny way. So you mentioned Kayak, 00:19:05.490 --> 00:19:08.789 the Sky Scanners, the Google Flights. They don't 00:19:08.789 --> 00:19:11.329 sell flights. They are what is called a meta 00:19:11.329 --> 00:19:14.569 -search platform. So what they do is basically 00:19:14.569 --> 00:19:16.809 are like a catalog of the different possibilities, 00:19:17.150 --> 00:19:19.759 but they never sell those possibilities. who 00:19:19.759 --> 00:19:22.079 sells the flights is what is called online travel 00:19:22.079 --> 00:19:27.019 agencies like the Booking .com, eDreams and these 00:19:27.019 --> 00:19:30.579 all travel platforms with the exception of Booking 00:19:30.579 --> 00:19:34.180 .com have generally not been very good at creating 00:19:34.180 --> 00:19:37.140 a brand for themselves. What they have been very 00:19:37.140 --> 00:19:40.200 good is understand the dynamics of the meta search 00:19:40.200 --> 00:19:44.119 and be able to give and bid with flight routes 00:19:44.119 --> 00:19:46.920 at the right time at the right price to travelers. 00:19:47.480 --> 00:19:50.390 So the dynamic has been you have the anonymous 00:19:50.390 --> 00:19:53.390 OTAs, many times, that are giving their flight 00:19:53.390 --> 00:19:56.029 content to the MetaSearch, which is the Skyscanners, 00:19:56.190 --> 00:20:00.289 the Kayaks, and people go to the MetaSearch, 00:20:00.509 --> 00:20:03.089 they buy the cheapest flight in the MetaSearch, 00:20:03.210 --> 00:20:05.329 and they really don't care if they are buying 00:20:05.329 --> 00:20:10.170 it in trip .com, in eDreams, Opoldo, whatever 00:20:10.170 --> 00:20:11.990 is the website, they just care about the cheapest. 00:20:12.849 --> 00:20:15.869 So from this second, there is not a lot of incentive 00:20:15.869 --> 00:20:18.609 for innovation. So that has been the second problem. 00:20:18.799 --> 00:20:22.059 is that the meta search, they just need to basically 00:20:22.059 --> 00:20:24.279 be that catalog. They can be a bit open in terms 00:20:24.279 --> 00:20:26.940 of catalog, but at the end of the day, they are 00:20:26.940 --> 00:20:31.519 paid by the OTAs to send people there. And the 00:20:31.519 --> 00:20:34.119 OTAs, their innovation needs to be on being very 00:20:34.119 --> 00:20:36.619 good at bidding. And this is a totally different 00:20:36.619 --> 00:20:38.940 logic from what we have at Trip .com, where we 00:20:38.940 --> 00:20:42.079 actually need to be the ones showcasing things 00:20:42.079 --> 00:20:44.599 to the consumer, understanding what is likely 00:20:44.599 --> 00:20:46.839 to convert with them without... them doing searches 00:20:46.839 --> 00:20:49.259 and then also doing the transactional part of 00:20:49.259 --> 00:20:53.480 selling and holding them as customers. I guess 00:20:53.480 --> 00:20:56.019 I always like asking this question, which is, 00:20:56.400 --> 00:20:58.819 when you're building this and the journey you 00:20:58.819 --> 00:21:01.480 have been on, what was the hardest day and how 00:21:01.480 --> 00:21:03.420 did you overcome it? Because I'm sure you had 00:21:03.420 --> 00:21:08.160 like really, really rough days when you go over 00:21:08.160 --> 00:21:16.039 and pass that. Well, it's a good question. You 00:21:16.039 --> 00:21:21.880 find a lot of hardship. Still, even though we 00:21:21.880 --> 00:21:26.660 passed a lot of years after COVID, travel is 00:21:26.660 --> 00:21:29.579 a space where investors are a bit afraid. There 00:21:29.579 --> 00:21:33.160 have been a lot of startup failures in this vertical. 00:21:34.240 --> 00:21:37.779 So we reached a point in the beginning of 2023 00:21:37.779 --> 00:21:40.259 where we had basically zero money in the bank 00:21:40.259 --> 00:21:43.960 account. We were not paying ourselves as founders 00:21:43.960 --> 00:21:47.269 for quite some time. and things were basically 00:21:47.269 --> 00:21:51.789 six months late with our round. And I think that's 00:21:51.789 --> 00:21:53.609 the moment where we told ourselves, like, hey, 00:21:53.650 --> 00:21:55.829 we are cockroaches. We'll survive anything that 00:21:55.829 --> 00:21:57.950 people throw at us or that we need to endure. 00:21:58.430 --> 00:22:00.470 And that needs to be sometimes our mentality 00:22:00.470 --> 00:22:03.470 as a startup. It's just focus on what you need 00:22:03.470 --> 00:22:08.910 to do and don't overthink headaches. Just live 00:22:08.910 --> 00:22:12.930 day by day, you know, doing your stuff, aiming 00:22:12.930 --> 00:22:16.500 at keeping your focus. as it is, don't disperse, 00:22:16.579 --> 00:22:20.420 don't go crazy, and there will be a way. I think 00:22:20.420 --> 00:22:23.900 when you have done the maximum you could have 00:22:23.900 --> 00:22:27.640 done, then there will always be some way of getting 00:22:27.640 --> 00:22:30.519 out of finding a solution. I think that that's 00:22:30.519 --> 00:22:33.059 the same principle when we did our first round, 00:22:33.400 --> 00:22:35.299 because we could have raised from day one, but 00:22:35.299 --> 00:22:37.599 actually that wouldn't be a good outcome. If 00:22:37.599 --> 00:22:40.400 we had raised at that valuation when we started 00:22:40.400 --> 00:22:42.079 on the first day, it shouldn't be a good outcome. 00:22:42.839 --> 00:22:45.519 do the maximum you can, and then good things 00:22:45.519 --> 00:22:48.619 will happen. I think when you reach a point where 00:22:48.619 --> 00:22:50.740 you say, like, yeah, I've done everything, I 00:22:50.740 --> 00:22:53.279 cannot improve anymore, I just need this to happen, 00:22:53.880 --> 00:22:56.839 then if you do things right, it will happen. 00:22:57.759 --> 00:22:59.319 It will happen. So have a little bit of faith. 00:22:59.700 --> 00:23:01.759 And how, you know, on a personal level, how do 00:23:01.759 --> 00:23:04.900 you manage those moments? Like, what do you do? 00:23:04.900 --> 00:23:06.859 Do you go over to friends, family? I mean, what 00:23:06.859 --> 00:23:12.019 works for you? Good question. I think it's just 00:23:12.019 --> 00:23:14.500 you have a lot of moments where you think why 00:23:14.500 --> 00:23:18.740 am I doing this and is it all worth it but I'm 00:23:18.740 --> 00:23:21.680 very focused on work and if I have something 00:23:21.680 --> 00:23:24.920 to do I want to do it so just like I set myself 00:23:24.920 --> 00:23:27.380 to do this I'm going to do it doesn't matter 00:23:27.380 --> 00:23:30.200 what is thrown what happens like we'll give it 00:23:30.200 --> 00:23:32.819 a try and sometimes just out of stubbornness 00:23:32.819 --> 00:23:34.799 like you have said I'm going to do it so you 00:23:34.799 --> 00:23:38.039 need to do it basically that's that's like it 00:23:38.039 --> 00:23:40.180 has been your goal from the beginning so don't 00:23:40.180 --> 00:23:43.079 give up on it, so that's sometimes the driver. 00:23:44.160 --> 00:23:46.519 I get the stubbornness. I think every founder 00:23:46.519 --> 00:23:49.339 needs to be incredibly stubborn. Needs to listen, 00:23:49.420 --> 00:23:51.259 but also be incredibly stubborn, because you're 00:23:51.259 --> 00:23:52.480 going to get a lot of noses. You need to be able 00:23:52.480 --> 00:23:54.000 to say, you know what, I'm still going to push 00:23:54.000 --> 00:23:55.700 ahead with this, because I feel like doing it. 00:23:57.180 --> 00:23:59.640 The amount of people that have told us this is 00:23:59.640 --> 00:24:02.059 ridiculous already. It's not going to work. Even 00:24:02.059 --> 00:24:04.019 people from the industry are saying, this doesn't 00:24:04.019 --> 00:24:06.299 make any sense. It's going to be impossible to 00:24:06.299 --> 00:24:08.079 build such an engine. How are you going to get 00:24:08.079 --> 00:24:10.819 the data? Like, do you know what you're getting 00:24:10.819 --> 00:24:14.319 yourself into? And you'll need to have that stubbornness. 00:24:14.640 --> 00:24:17.019 Like, if you actually done your homework and 00:24:17.019 --> 00:24:20.400 you think this is going to work, then you also 00:24:20.400 --> 00:24:23.279 will need to be a bit stubborn and ignore the 00:24:23.279 --> 00:24:26.680 noise. Yeah, I think that's always the trickiest 00:24:26.680 --> 00:24:28.660 thing. You know, I talk with a lot of founders 00:24:28.660 --> 00:24:32.480 and investors and one of the key things that... 00:24:32.820 --> 00:24:34.880 is at least for investors, I always say is I 00:24:34.880 --> 00:24:36.940 always look at the team first, not so much the 00:24:36.940 --> 00:24:39.619 idea. I look at the team because they might be 00:24:39.619 --> 00:24:42.279 on to the wrong path. But if they have the right 00:24:42.279 --> 00:24:43.960 attitude, they're going to be able to pivot. 00:24:44.539 --> 00:24:46.619 And then when you talk with a founder, the ones 00:24:46.619 --> 00:24:48.759 that are normally very successful, the ones that 00:24:48.759 --> 00:24:50.759 started with one idea and end up with a completely 00:24:50.759 --> 00:24:53.019 different idea, but they've grown so much in 00:24:53.019 --> 00:24:55.720 that process that they actually made them who 00:24:55.720 --> 00:24:57.579 they are. And that's a person you want to invest 00:24:57.579 --> 00:25:00.380 in. But it's 100 % a journey. It's very hard, 00:25:00.480 --> 00:25:05.660 isn't it? Yeah, and you also need to balance 00:25:05.660 --> 00:25:09.039 very well you being stubborn because you need 00:25:09.039 --> 00:25:11.240 to be stubborn sometimes but also being able 00:25:11.240 --> 00:25:13.380 to hear what others have to say because sometimes 00:25:13.380 --> 00:25:15.500 you are not right you are totally wrong so you 00:25:15.500 --> 00:25:20.079 need to also balance that and I think a big problem 00:25:20.079 --> 00:25:23.039 that I've seen with startups and with founders 00:25:23.039 --> 00:25:26.920 that if they get a bunch of things right then 00:25:26.920 --> 00:25:30.940 they think they are the the holy grail of startup 00:25:30.940 --> 00:25:33.960 founders. And then that totally destroys the 00:25:33.960 --> 00:25:36.019 company because then people start having egos, 00:25:36.400 --> 00:25:38.680 like, oh, I'm the visionary. I know so much about 00:25:38.680 --> 00:25:42.299 this. So I'm right and I'm going to be stubborn. 00:25:42.839 --> 00:25:46.539 So it's, I think be stubborn about some of your 00:25:46.539 --> 00:25:48.700 initial ideas. If you think it's going to work 00:25:48.700 --> 00:25:52.700 as a founding team, be stubborn about it. There 00:25:52.700 --> 00:25:55.079 are so many internal decisions and things going 00:25:55.079 --> 00:25:58.359 on where you also cannot be stubborn. So it's 00:25:58.359 --> 00:26:02.640 a very delicate balance. When you're talking 00:26:02.640 --> 00:26:04.779 with investors, what do they normally say in 00:26:04.779 --> 00:26:06.960 terms of the progress you guys have made and 00:26:06.960 --> 00:26:09.180 the way they see the market? Are they super excited 00:26:09.180 --> 00:26:11.319 about it or on the contrary, they keep on throwing 00:26:11.319 --> 00:26:14.759 objection after objection? It depends a lot. 00:26:14.960 --> 00:26:17.480 I think there are investors that will never be 00:26:17.480 --> 00:26:20.759 satisfied. We had a lot of investors back in 00:26:20.759 --> 00:26:24.819 the day saying, get to 20K MRR and then we'll 00:26:24.819 --> 00:26:28.619 talk. We have long surpassed that. But if I come 00:26:28.619 --> 00:26:32.339 to them right now with our MRR, which is much, 00:26:32.579 --> 00:26:34.240 much bigger than what they were asking, they 00:26:34.240 --> 00:26:37.220 will always find an excuse to say, well, actually 00:26:37.220 --> 00:26:40.420 great progress, but there is going to be something. 00:26:42.599 --> 00:26:46.960 With investors, I think the ones that work with 00:26:46.960 --> 00:26:49.539 us have been the uncomplicated ones. The ones 00:26:49.539 --> 00:26:51.920 that say, I like this, I would like to go for 00:26:51.920 --> 00:26:54.299 it. So that's the best investor that you can 00:26:54.299 --> 00:26:56.819 have is someone that gets to know you as a person, 00:26:57.099 --> 00:26:59.079 get to know the team and say, yeah, I feel good 00:26:59.079 --> 00:27:02.900 about this. I want to do it. Now, how do you 00:27:02.900 --> 00:27:04.539 reach out to those investors? Because that's 00:27:04.539 --> 00:27:07.779 always a tricky thing, I think. Is there a magical 00:27:07.779 --> 00:27:09.619 formula you found and no one else has found? 00:27:11.039 --> 00:27:13.319 Well, the first investor was super random because 00:27:13.319 --> 00:27:17.839 we were walking on this... started fair in Denmark. 00:27:18.259 --> 00:27:21.859 And there's this very tall guy that looks into 00:27:21.859 --> 00:27:24.440 me and another Portuguese colleague and is saying 00:27:24.440 --> 00:27:27.220 like, oh, funny t -shirts. And how did you get 00:27:27.220 --> 00:27:30.319 a Dritnall Colm name? And we start telling him 00:27:30.319 --> 00:27:32.980 the story and we go for a beer and the whole 00:27:32.980 --> 00:27:34.700 thing happens from there. So it's totally random, 00:27:34.880 --> 00:27:37.420 but we have to be at that point that that started 00:27:37.420 --> 00:27:40.279 fair. So we have to basically leave the basement 00:27:40.279 --> 00:27:45.240 in a way and be out there on an event. Sometimes 00:27:45.240 --> 00:27:47.359 it's like this, other times, like for example, 00:27:47.440 --> 00:27:51.460 one of our now is our chairman, a very good advisor. 00:27:52.519 --> 00:27:55.079 It was just LinkedIn writing saying, hey, I know 00:27:55.079 --> 00:27:57.680 that you are an authority in this industry. I 00:27:57.680 --> 00:27:59.920 would love to meet you and talk about this idea. 00:28:00.700 --> 00:28:04.019 So it's just outreach and I mean, there are 10 00:28:04.019 --> 00:28:05.640 billion people in the world. You'll always find 00:28:05.640 --> 00:28:08.519 someone that has a time at least to hear you 00:28:08.519 --> 00:28:11.339 and that will find you someone or give you some 00:28:11.339 --> 00:28:16.450 nice advice. You know in I'm thinking about your 00:28:16.450 --> 00:28:18.450 customers like all the trips they've done and 00:28:18.450 --> 00:28:21.150 all that Did they normally get back to you and 00:28:21.150 --> 00:28:23.009 say thank you? I really obviously you always 00:28:23.009 --> 00:28:24.529 have feedback on the website But they actually 00:28:24.529 --> 00:28:26.529 say you know this trip has changed my life and 00:28:26.529 --> 00:28:30.730 stuff like that Yeah, we get that and it's like 00:28:30.730 --> 00:28:35.190 it's like Consumer is like a roller coaster emotions 00:28:35.190 --> 00:28:37.289 when they you can be like feeling shit because 00:28:37.289 --> 00:28:40.009 you have this Person that is so difficult to 00:28:40.009 --> 00:28:42.009 deal with like it's like this four -year -old 00:28:42.009 --> 00:28:44.910 on a adult body, just being such a pain. But 00:28:44.910 --> 00:28:47.349 then the next time you have someone being so 00:28:47.349 --> 00:28:49.789 wonderful and saying, be a strip, I love your 00:28:49.789 --> 00:28:53.269 platform. And if you go to our trust palette, 00:28:53.289 --> 00:28:55.789 for example, and start seeing the reviews, sometimes 00:28:55.789 --> 00:29:00.349 you start feeling quite good with what we have 00:29:00.349 --> 00:29:03.329 built because people can be very, very nice as 00:29:03.329 --> 00:29:07.470 well. Nice. On the journey, you've been yourself. 00:29:07.690 --> 00:29:10.490 What advice, I don't know, the top three things 00:29:10.490 --> 00:29:12.630 you would advise someone who's just getting started, 00:29:12.930 --> 00:29:17.910 who would that be? As a startup founder, what 00:29:17.910 --> 00:29:19.289 are the top three things you'd say, you know 00:29:19.289 --> 00:29:25.289 what, do this and do that? So I think the first 00:29:25.289 --> 00:29:27.150 question that you need to answer yourself is 00:29:27.150 --> 00:29:30.089 do you want to build something that makes you 00:29:30.089 --> 00:29:31.490 some money or do you want to create something 00:29:31.490 --> 00:29:34.089 that is really big? And if you want to create 00:29:34.089 --> 00:29:38.359 like something that is we could say unicorn potential 00:29:38.359 --> 00:29:41.460 as a startup, then you'll have a lot of hard 00:29:41.460 --> 00:29:44.500 work. There is no easy way. You have so many 00:29:44.500 --> 00:29:46.519 people thinking about what can be the next thing. 00:29:46.759 --> 00:29:48.680 If it was that easy, other people would have 00:29:48.680 --> 00:29:52.160 done it. So you need to answer very well as an 00:29:52.160 --> 00:29:56.000 individual, how am I going to pull this off and 00:29:56.000 --> 00:29:59.440 why that others haven't been able to come up 00:29:59.440 --> 00:30:03.440 with? If you're going for a big shot. You can 00:30:03.440 --> 00:30:07.579 also go for like a small shot and like you can 00:30:07.579 --> 00:30:09.960 use a large language model and create some nice 00:30:09.960 --> 00:30:13.319 thing that makes you so many, but for me it's 00:30:13.319 --> 00:30:15.119 not like a startup per se because it's not like 00:30:15.119 --> 00:30:17.500 the big shot, it's not the big dream. If you 00:30:17.500 --> 00:30:19.220 want to go for the big shot you need to answer 00:30:19.220 --> 00:30:23.559 why and are you really willing also to put to 00:30:23.559 --> 00:30:25.539 work the crazy work for you to be able to build 00:30:25.539 --> 00:30:29.599 this because it's not going to come easy. And 00:30:29.599 --> 00:30:33.430 the second one is like no excuses. I hear so 00:30:33.430 --> 00:30:35.089 many people saying, oh, I don't know how to code. 00:30:35.230 --> 00:30:38.650 I don't know how to do this. How many million 00:30:38.650 --> 00:30:41.769 students are around you, like in Europe, that 00:30:41.769 --> 00:30:44.289 are very willing to build something together 00:30:44.289 --> 00:30:48.589 with other students? Like a ton of them. And 00:30:48.589 --> 00:30:52.349 you can find a ton of qualified people that just 00:30:52.349 --> 00:30:55.769 want to get some experience. And if you don't 00:30:55.769 --> 00:30:59.349 have a big ego and you actually are reasonable 00:30:59.349 --> 00:31:02.750 to deal with, you'll find a lot of people, and 00:31:02.750 --> 00:31:04.789 you can build a great team that can build anything 00:31:04.789 --> 00:31:07.990 that you want to imagine. So I think there's 00:31:07.990 --> 00:31:10.509 no excuses from the personal side. Oh, I need 00:31:10.509 --> 00:31:14.170 money to raise money to outsource some developers. 00:31:14.970 --> 00:31:17.750 Like, fuck off. You should be doing this in home. 00:31:18.049 --> 00:31:19.990 You should be doing it properly with your own 00:31:19.990 --> 00:31:23.849 team. So this would be my second advice. Well, 00:31:23.970 --> 00:31:25.869 the third one, I think I already talked with 00:31:25.869 --> 00:31:28.710 a lot, so maybe these two advices are good enough. 00:31:30.140 --> 00:31:32.440 Okay, I got an interesting question, which is, 00:31:32.680 --> 00:31:37.900 what was your favorite trip so far? Good question. 00:31:38.420 --> 00:31:41.440 I think this one, I'm right now in China, so 00:31:41.440 --> 00:31:48.740 this one was pretty lit. We basically went from 00:31:48.740 --> 00:31:52.319 Copenhagen to Vienna, Vienna to Abu Dhabi, Abu 00:31:52.319 --> 00:31:56.759 Dhabi to a city I forgot the name in Uzbekistan. 00:31:57.019 --> 00:31:59.619 then traveled in three cities in Uzbekistan, 00:31:59.779 --> 00:32:03.900 went to Kazakhstan, grabbed a bus to the land 00:32:03.900 --> 00:32:06.720 border in China, visited like four cities in 00:32:06.720 --> 00:32:09.420 the north of China, and now we are in Xian. So 00:32:09.420 --> 00:32:12.039 that's a cool trip. But we have done many trips, 00:32:12.480 --> 00:32:15.599 like trip .com style, and also created by trip 00:32:15.599 --> 00:32:19.880 .com, that are very centered on this hopping 00:32:19.880 --> 00:32:22.700 concept of like, I don't want to stay 15 days 00:32:22.700 --> 00:32:24.799 in the same place, I want to be hopping, exploring 00:32:24.799 --> 00:32:27.990 different places. So we have like a plethora 00:32:27.990 --> 00:32:30.529 of adventures and crazy situations from these 00:32:30.529 --> 00:32:35.410 kind of trips. In a way, now a completely different 00:32:35.410 --> 00:32:37.630 topic, which is what's the best advice you can 00:32:37.630 --> 00:32:40.470 give for someone going on such a trip? So nothing 00:32:40.470 --> 00:32:42.509 to do with business, but just like what advice 00:32:42.509 --> 00:32:45.210 would you actually give them? Thistrip .com. 00:32:47.230 --> 00:32:49.650 I guess when you're actually on the trip, what 00:32:49.650 --> 00:32:54.549 advice would you give them? That's the thing 00:32:54.549 --> 00:32:56.450 is that I hate planning. That's why I created 00:32:56.450 --> 00:33:01.170 triple calm if I would either have trail of conduit 00:33:01.170 --> 00:33:04.730 or ask my wife to Like 10 things in the in the 00:33:04.730 --> 00:33:07.250 location for me Just like I bring everything 00:33:07.250 --> 00:33:09.990 in one backpack Because that's what allows me 00:33:09.990 --> 00:33:12.470 to to travel for trip in low -cost carriers and 00:33:12.470 --> 00:33:14.910 believe me You can fit everything for one month 00:33:14.910 --> 00:33:16.789 two months in a backpack So that would be my 00:33:16.789 --> 00:33:19.170 advice for you. Just if you want to save bring 00:33:19.170 --> 00:33:21.819 it back back and that's it Okay, I think we should 00:33:21.819 --> 00:33:23.900 do a YouTube video just with you packing your 00:33:23.900 --> 00:33:25.920 bag so people can actually see how that works. 00:33:27.220 --> 00:33:28.839 Because I know a lot of people that go on trip 00:33:28.839 --> 00:33:31.880 days and they bring the whole house with them. 00:33:33.180 --> 00:33:36.019 We have customers like this, they need like 60 00:33:36.019 --> 00:33:38.859 kilos of luggage to bring like the stuff for 00:33:38.859 --> 00:33:41.420 their three -day trip and just think, that doesn't 00:33:41.420 --> 00:33:46.480 compute to me. Yeah, that's hard to do. André, 00:33:46.519 --> 00:33:48.619 if people want to reach out to you, how can they 00:33:48.619 --> 00:34:08.380 do so? The podcast is also sponsored by Notion 00:34:08.380 --> 00:34:11.300 .so. 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