WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.859 Welcome to the Innovation Conversation, a podcast 00:00:02.859 --> 00:00:05.379 about innovators, both in business and real life. 00:00:05.900 --> 00:00:08.419 Hosted by myself, Ricardo Rescual and Harry McCona. 00:00:08.720 --> 00:00:11.679 This podcast is sponsored by OpenExperts .com. 00:00:11.919 --> 00:00:14.140 OpenExperts is a place to go if you're looking 00:00:14.140 --> 00:00:16.260 to talk with top experts from around the world. 00:00:16.579 --> 00:00:21.140 That is Open -Experts .com. This podcast is also 00:00:21.140 --> 00:00:24.679 sponsored by ODEVTECH. ODEV Tech is your premier 00:00:24.679 --> 00:00:26.879 software development partner. Make sure you check 00:00:26.879 --> 00:00:32.899 them out at odev .tech. The podcast is also sponsored 00:00:32.899 --> 00:00:36.039 by Notion .so. Notion is offering 6 months free 00:00:36.039 --> 00:00:38.820 for new users. Make sure you check out our website 00:00:38.820 --> 00:00:41.479 thestartupevents .co .uk to read in the software. 00:00:47.419 --> 00:00:49.899 Hi, and welcome to another episode of the Innovation 00:00:49.899 --> 00:00:52.200 Conversation. Today we are joined by Akil Benjamin. 00:00:52.700 --> 00:00:56.259 Akil, welcome. Hi, good morning. How are you? 00:00:56.840 --> 00:01:00.320 Good. How are you? Today, not bad. I've got kids 00:01:00.320 --> 00:01:03.479 at home, so that's going to be an interesting 00:01:03.479 --> 00:01:05.319 time when recording, but I've got a little bit 00:01:05.319 --> 00:01:08.219 of help, so let's see how we go. Thanks for being 00:01:08.219 --> 00:01:10.099 here. Well, thanks for having me here. That's 00:01:10.099 --> 00:01:12.459 the best way. I'm looking actually looking forward 00:01:12.459 --> 00:01:14.560 to this because we actually haven't... I think 00:01:14.560 --> 00:01:16.799 over the last few months we've done so much work, 00:01:17.099 --> 00:01:19.299 but we've not had the opportunity to just like 00:01:19.299 --> 00:01:25.659 sit and talk. And so that's how it goes. So the 00:01:25.659 --> 00:01:27.640 audience doesn't know much about you, unfortunately, 00:01:27.680 --> 00:01:29.780 if they're just listening to this. So would you 00:01:29.780 --> 00:01:32.579 like to tell our audience a bit more about yourself? 00:01:33.700 --> 00:01:38.299 Yeah, I guess so. Really, basically, I don't 00:01:38.299 --> 00:01:41.819 like work, so I became an entrepreneur, but I 00:01:41.819 --> 00:01:46.129 got really good at it. I opened the design studio 00:01:46.129 --> 00:01:49.370 of my friends called Comuzee and we designed 00:01:49.370 --> 00:01:53.349 products and services to help large organizations 00:01:53.349 --> 00:01:56.409 connect with their clients better and then I 00:01:56.409 --> 00:01:59.409 took that practice of building something desirable, 00:02:00.090 --> 00:02:02.230 building something that people want and I started 00:02:02.230 --> 00:02:04.269 working with small business and it's kind of 00:02:04.269 --> 00:02:07.629 the same like product category out of a multinational 00:02:07.629 --> 00:02:10.830 is the same as running one small business down 00:02:10.830 --> 00:02:15.300 on the ground and I started to obsess about that 00:02:15.300 --> 00:02:18.919 practice. And so after a while I decided to start 00:02:18.919 --> 00:02:21.199 using my design skills to help businesses grow 00:02:21.199 --> 00:02:27.360 and have them back. Nice. And how did the whole 00:02:27.360 --> 00:02:30.740 Somerset House came about? Because obviously 00:02:30.740 --> 00:02:35.460 you work from there, you have a big space there, 00:02:35.460 --> 00:02:37.599 and you also help a lot of businesses. So how 00:02:37.599 --> 00:02:41.539 did that come about? So I was already doing a 00:02:41.539 --> 00:02:44.669 lot of work. to help small business. So beforehand 00:02:44.669 --> 00:02:48.050 I was working with MSC Satchi and we had something 00:02:48.050 --> 00:02:50.610 called MSC Satchi Saturday School and we were 00:02:50.610 --> 00:02:52.310 teaching communities the basics of business. 00:02:52.710 --> 00:02:55.770 And these were like online and in -person workshops 00:02:55.770 --> 00:02:57.930 that people could come and learn like business 00:02:57.930 --> 00:02:59.789 planning, digital marketing, wellbeing at work 00:02:59.789 --> 00:03:02.729 or some like business finance essentially. That 00:03:02.729 --> 00:03:04.689 was the space that we had and that's what we 00:03:04.689 --> 00:03:08.169 did. Then the pandemic happened. And we opened 00:03:08.169 --> 00:03:10.189 up a huge mentoring platform called Mental Black 00:03:10.189 --> 00:03:13.310 Business, where we were the third largest mentoring 00:03:13.310 --> 00:03:14.849 platform in the country at one stage, helping 00:03:14.849 --> 00:03:17.250 thousands of businesses grow, thousands of black 00:03:17.250 --> 00:03:20.729 businesses grow. And that evolved because then 00:03:20.729 --> 00:03:23.389 I had the classes and I had this mentorship aspect. 00:03:23.849 --> 00:03:26.650 And I have a real ambition to want to create 00:03:26.650 --> 00:03:29.330 a university. And so at Somerset House, they 00:03:29.330 --> 00:03:33.729 had the space. They had the physical space. prestigious 00:03:33.729 --> 00:03:36.449 building and all this stuff and so I tried to 00:03:36.449 --> 00:03:39.810 imagine what it would be like if we put those 00:03:39.810 --> 00:03:41.909 master classes together alongside the mentoring 00:03:41.909 --> 00:03:44.629 in a specific venue. Some of us at House had 00:03:44.629 --> 00:03:47.870 their race action plan and we were looking at 00:03:47.870 --> 00:03:49.330 different ways. I was working with them in the 00:03:49.330 --> 00:03:51.289 building and I cared because I worked there and 00:03:51.289 --> 00:03:53.030 we were looking at ways to make that real and 00:03:53.030 --> 00:03:56.509 authentic and we said okay let's open the Black 00:03:56.509 --> 00:03:58.629 Business Residency and what that would be is 00:03:58.830 --> 00:04:02.770 12 months of free workspace alongside mentorship 00:04:02.770 --> 00:04:05.330 master classes and all the resources we can master 00:04:05.330 --> 00:04:08.669 to give to you and we would do that to help you 00:04:08.669 --> 00:04:12.129 grow and that was a really fledgling idea that 00:04:12.129 --> 00:04:15.409 we had a fortunate position for Morgan Stanley 00:04:15.409 --> 00:04:18.230 to give us our first sponsorship check to pilot 00:04:18.230 --> 00:04:23.490 it and we did well like and I'm not saying it's 00:04:23.680 --> 00:04:26.920 perfection at the front, but I think between 00:04:26.920 --> 00:04:28.839 like the perseverance and the tenacity and the 00:04:28.839 --> 00:04:30.920 glowing and the raising some money ourselves 00:04:30.920 --> 00:04:33.620 and then Morgan Stanley even putting on more 00:04:33.620 --> 00:04:36.740 and bringing in other partners such as my original 00:04:36.740 --> 00:04:39.000 partner MNC coming to support it. We started 00:04:39.000 --> 00:04:41.319 to create like this program which was sustainable 00:04:41.319 --> 00:04:44.019 that we could run over five cohorts helping about 00:04:44.019 --> 00:04:47.819 125 entrepreneurs so far close like the entrepreneurs 00:04:47.819 --> 00:04:50.040 earning that. I think that's been really interesting 00:04:50.040 --> 00:04:54.019 because now we've created a space where at Somerset 00:04:54.019 --> 00:04:56.319 House where we can support entrepreneurs to have 00:04:56.319 --> 00:04:59.720 sustainable creative careers where they're earning 00:04:59.720 --> 00:05:02.339 powerful to no white bits. And I think that's 00:05:02.339 --> 00:05:05.300 a really interesting impact and privilege of 00:05:05.300 --> 00:05:09.279 doing the work that we did. It's amazing work 00:05:09.279 --> 00:05:11.839 and you can see, I mean, when you walk in, you 00:05:11.839 --> 00:05:14.120 can see the energy in the place, right? You can 00:05:14.120 --> 00:05:16.480 feel the energy in the place. It's really, everyone's 00:05:16.480 --> 00:05:18.339 super motivated and you can see they actually, 00:05:18.519 --> 00:05:20.720 they're going to go out to do amazing things. 00:05:20.720 --> 00:05:22.620 And it's really impressive what we've built. 00:05:22.879 --> 00:05:24.740 what was the biggest struggle when you're building 00:05:24.740 --> 00:05:26.879 this because it's not it's not easy right so 00:05:26.879 --> 00:05:28.839 what's the thing that you really struggle with? 00:05:29.819 --> 00:05:32.759 So you know what I did a talk in Milton Keynes 00:05:32.759 --> 00:05:36.019 bar less than a month ago and I was describing 00:05:36.019 --> 00:05:39.040 building out our residency program when I was 00:05:39.040 --> 00:05:40.899 like this is the biggest service design project 00:05:40.899 --> 00:05:43.660 of my life and it's really interesting because 00:05:43.660 --> 00:05:46.100 as a designer you get to draw out how you think 00:05:46.100 --> 00:05:47.699 the world should work and you hand over someone 00:05:47.699 --> 00:05:51.750 else to execute it but in me persisting in running 00:05:51.750 --> 00:05:55.069 this program for the last four years, that consistency, 00:05:55.290 --> 00:05:58.629 that effort that's showing up, that being present 00:05:58.629 --> 00:06:01.709 even when life is grinding you down, that understanding 00:06:01.709 --> 00:06:04.230 or acknowledging that you're gonna make a mess 00:06:04.230 --> 00:06:07.050 of things because this is real life not just 00:06:07.050 --> 00:06:10.930 like a simulation. How you then choose to respond 00:06:10.930 --> 00:06:15.810 is the difference between you doing this as a 00:06:15.810 --> 00:06:18.910 token initiative or you doing this with a real 00:06:19.129 --> 00:06:21.129 duty, dedication and care for the community you're 00:06:21.129 --> 00:06:23.649 trying to serve. People tell us about ourselves 00:06:23.649 --> 00:06:26.810 all the time but what I think is important is 00:06:26.810 --> 00:06:28.290 that we were brave enough to listen in the first 00:06:28.290 --> 00:06:30.949 place, we're brave enough to adapt, we don't 00:06:30.949 --> 00:06:33.189 try and make the same mistakes twice, we work 00:06:33.189 --> 00:06:37.009 really hard as a collective team to really put 00:06:37.009 --> 00:06:39.230 our money where our mouth is and really demonstrate 00:06:39.230 --> 00:06:42.230 our values. That's really, it's a really interesting 00:06:42.230 --> 00:06:44.449 thing to navigate whilst working with an institution. 00:06:44.709 --> 00:06:46.949 Somerset House is amazing because they were brave 00:06:46.949 --> 00:06:51.920 enough to take this journey with me. But navigating 00:06:51.920 --> 00:06:55.800 such a setup is still a challenge, right? We 00:06:55.800 --> 00:06:58.500 still turn it off every year and we still keep 00:06:58.500 --> 00:07:00.060 getting better and better and that's a testament 00:07:00.060 --> 00:07:02.339 to the team that we work with in Summer Setout 00:07:02.339 --> 00:07:05.360 to achieve that. But also the businesses that 00:07:05.360 --> 00:07:09.899 we work with who are graceful with us, just they're 00:07:09.899 --> 00:07:12.139 graceful with us. They can see that we're here 00:07:12.139 --> 00:07:14.480 to help them and so when we do start adding that 00:07:14.480 --> 00:07:17.579 value, it stacks up over time. and we take the 00:07:17.579 --> 00:07:22.180 wins as we can get them. So what advice would 00:07:22.180 --> 00:07:24.579 you give to young entrepreneurs listening in? 00:07:26.160 --> 00:07:30.579 Just start, innit? Like, I think so many people 00:07:30.579 --> 00:07:33.759 get caught up in that I need this or I need that 00:07:33.759 --> 00:07:39.180 or like, it's not likely. More waste of time. 00:07:39.560 --> 00:07:41.860 You don't really need that much cash to start 00:07:41.860 --> 00:07:44.540 and just to test out a proposition or an idea. 00:07:45.000 --> 00:07:48.529 You don't need like that much expertise to do 00:07:48.529 --> 00:07:51.509 much like the technology for selling stuff gets 00:07:51.509 --> 00:07:53.689 easier and easier every day like people can give 00:07:53.689 --> 00:07:56.189 you money on your phone now um and that's like 00:07:56.189 --> 00:07:58.129 you could cut phones together and all sorts like 00:07:58.129 --> 00:08:00.990 that so like making money has never been easier 00:08:00.990 --> 00:08:06.610 and so i the bravery to start i think is it And 00:08:06.610 --> 00:08:08.370 the reason why I say that is because 90 % of 00:08:08.370 --> 00:08:10.670 businesses will never raise venture capital fundings. 00:08:10.870 --> 00:08:13.250 And there's like 5 million small businesses in 00:08:13.250 --> 00:08:17.350 the UK. If we said like 4 .5 million businesses 00:08:17.350 --> 00:08:19.089 out of that whole lot, no matter black, white, 00:08:19.170 --> 00:08:21.430 orange or blue, never going to raise cash, then 00:08:21.430 --> 00:08:22.870 how are you going to make money? It's awesome. 00:08:24.050 --> 00:08:27.829 And so the quicker you can get stuck in the mud 00:08:27.829 --> 00:08:30.649 or the quicker you can go two foot in and just 00:08:30.649 --> 00:08:34.340 go in to try and sell whatever you think. your 00:08:34.340 --> 00:08:37.220 products or services, I think is the best advice 00:08:37.220 --> 00:08:38.940 I can give you and it's the best learning you 00:08:38.940 --> 00:08:42.980 have. After that, document your mistake. You 00:08:42.980 --> 00:08:45.200 don't make them twice. I think making a mistake 00:08:45.200 --> 00:08:48.659 once is inevitable, but making it twice is doubly 00:08:48.659 --> 00:08:51.299 expensive. And so, there are other mistakes to 00:08:51.299 --> 00:08:53.240 make in life, isn't there? There's so many. And 00:08:53.240 --> 00:08:55.759 so, getting caught in a perpetual loop by not 00:08:55.759 --> 00:09:00.100 changing what you're doing is an unwise suggestion. 00:09:00.679 --> 00:09:02.480 I think if you stick with those two things you 00:09:02.480 --> 00:09:05.919 can make some serious ground and outpace your 00:09:05.919 --> 00:09:09.120 peers even the ones who are smarter or got the 00:09:09.120 --> 00:09:12.440 better credentials or whatever the heck. Nothing 00:09:12.440 --> 00:09:21.879 beats delivery. That's very true. Do when times 00:09:21.879 --> 00:09:24.080 get tough because you know when you're starting 00:09:24.080 --> 00:09:25.539 something and when you're building something 00:09:25.539 --> 00:09:28.940 there are some very very hard moments. What do 00:09:28.940 --> 00:09:32.059 you do when that happens? when times are tough. 00:09:32.659 --> 00:09:36.360 Like beforehand, it would crush me. I have been 00:09:36.360 --> 00:09:40.399 absolutely obliterated by my job, but I guess 00:09:40.399 --> 00:09:43.860 there has been lessons and learnings where we 00:09:43.860 --> 00:09:46.200 start building up this resilience, if that makes 00:09:46.200 --> 00:09:48.539 any sense, and you realise the world doesn't 00:09:48.539 --> 00:09:50.080 end. You might have to start again, but the world 00:09:50.080 --> 00:09:54.240 doesn't end. Those lessons, the first time is 00:09:54.240 --> 00:09:56.740 always the hardest, like the first... like apocalypse 00:09:56.740 --> 00:09:58.820 or the world ending crisis is always the hardest 00:09:58.820 --> 00:10:01.799 but after a while like you move through it and 00:10:01.799 --> 00:10:03.960 you even learn not to waste a good crisis but 00:10:03.960 --> 00:10:07.159 that's another that's another topic but practically 00:10:07.159 --> 00:10:10.259 for me i got probably like three things right 00:10:10.259 --> 00:10:13.440 first things first i'm hyper obsessive and so 00:10:13.440 --> 00:10:18.559 you can reach a moment a tunnel vision and not 00:10:18.559 --> 00:10:20.840 even notice it so going to see your friends is 00:10:20.840 --> 00:10:23.860 actually really cool Cause they just like expand 00:10:23.860 --> 00:10:26.559 my frame of thinking they remind me that I can 00:10:26.559 --> 00:10:28.700 take this in a lighthearted fashion, give me 00:10:28.700 --> 00:10:30.679 the comfort to laugh about, like going and seeing 00:10:30.679 --> 00:10:33.720 some friends and maintaining friendships I think 00:10:33.720 --> 00:10:41.440 is an unspoken, is unspoken and undervalued and 00:10:41.440 --> 00:10:43.259 I would really encourage that idea of community 00:10:43.259 --> 00:10:46.519 and friendship and leaning in and going to spend 00:10:46.519 --> 00:10:49.059 time with people you love. I think that can really 00:10:49.059 --> 00:10:50.740 lighten the mood and lighten the load and possibly 00:10:50.740 --> 00:10:52.460 inspire you to get out of whatever situation 00:10:52.460 --> 00:10:58.200 you're in. Secondly, go to a therapist. Sometimes 00:10:58.200 --> 00:11:00.620 these feelings that you might have might be too 00:11:00.620 --> 00:11:04.000 heavy to hold by yourself. Yeah, pay someone 00:11:04.000 --> 00:11:05.659 off load them and charge it to your business. 00:11:09.000 --> 00:11:11.840 I understand therapy can be expensive when it's 00:11:11.840 --> 00:11:15.399 unbudgeted. You might be what the heck, but if 00:11:15.399 --> 00:11:16.600 you're starting to make progress, stop putting 00:11:16.600 --> 00:11:19.470 that in the budget. Like, 70 quid a session, 00:11:19.950 --> 00:11:22.490 200 pound a month, you'd probably spend it on 00:11:22.490 --> 00:11:28.149 expenses anyway. Put in the budget, man. Put 00:11:28.149 --> 00:11:30.250 in the budget, someone to cry to, so you can 00:11:30.250 --> 00:11:34.090 at least be walking around reasonable. And I 00:11:34.090 --> 00:11:35.990 might voice note myself a lot to just get the 00:11:35.990 --> 00:11:39.529 thoughts off my mind and articulate it. But then 00:11:39.529 --> 00:11:42.120 lastly, I pray a lot. And the reason why I pray 00:11:42.120 --> 00:11:43.360 is similar to the reason why I have Westminster. 00:11:43.600 --> 00:11:47.299 I think the action of prayer is just as powerful 00:11:47.299 --> 00:11:51.000 as hoping God fulfills it in itself, right? The 00:11:51.000 --> 00:11:52.759 action of prayer, in my opinion, is this thing 00:11:52.759 --> 00:11:55.179 where you might be going through something, you 00:11:55.179 --> 00:11:58.519 might be challenged by something, and this might 00:11:58.519 --> 00:12:00.799 be the first time you are actually articulated 00:12:00.799 --> 00:12:03.059 that worry, that thought, that challenge out 00:12:03.059 --> 00:12:06.139 loud. Through the action of prayer and articulating 00:12:06.139 --> 00:12:07.779 it out loud, then you've got some sensibility 00:12:07.779 --> 00:12:09.299 of what this thing actually is that's bothering 00:12:09.299 --> 00:12:12.450 you. and now you can work with it to make a change 00:12:12.450 --> 00:12:15.730 or make a difference and make some progress and 00:12:15.730 --> 00:12:21.250 I think prayer in that regard or it possibly 00:12:21.250 --> 00:12:23.029 being the first time you've articulated your 00:12:23.029 --> 00:12:28.450 pain point is like a blessing in itself and such 00:12:28.450 --> 00:12:31.269 a insightful moment when you get to it because 00:12:31.269 --> 00:12:33.570 you probably have to humble yourself to say you're 00:12:33.570 --> 00:12:36.929 struggling in the first place but the world opens 00:12:36.929 --> 00:12:39.049 up after you say that out loud right because 00:12:39.279 --> 00:12:42.759 then you start knowing what to ask for, you start 00:12:42.759 --> 00:12:44.960 knowing what to look for, the solution becomes 00:12:44.960 --> 00:12:47.899 more apparent. Those are my three real safety 00:12:47.899 --> 00:12:52.460 nets. I'm friendship, therapy, prayer, talking 00:12:52.460 --> 00:12:58.500 out loud. And they've saved me from LML. Yeah. 00:13:02.179 --> 00:13:04.620 I was wondering, you know, when you talk with 00:13:04.620 --> 00:13:06.379 people, because obviously you meet a lot of startups, 00:13:06.559 --> 00:13:09.500 you meet a lot of entrepreneurs. Can you tell 00:13:09.500 --> 00:13:11.600 from the get -go they're going to be successful 00:13:11.600 --> 00:13:14.320 or not? Or can you tell if they're on the correct 00:13:14.320 --> 00:13:16.600 path or not? Because obviously there's no way 00:13:16.600 --> 00:13:18.919 of telling if someone ultimately will be successful 00:13:18.919 --> 00:13:21.519 because we often fail multiple times until we 00:13:21.519 --> 00:13:23.779 reach success. But can you tell if they're on 00:13:23.779 --> 00:13:28.179 the right path straight away? So usually not 00:13:28.179 --> 00:13:30.700 straight away, but maybe in the second or third 00:13:30.700 --> 00:13:32.639 meeting of them I can usually work something 00:13:32.639 --> 00:13:39.360 out. So I am reasonably prominent in my ecosystem 00:13:39.360 --> 00:13:42.139 and I put on a lot of events for my ecosystem 00:13:42.139 --> 00:13:44.539 so I'm a focal point so I get to not just meet 00:13:44.539 --> 00:13:46.659 people once but maybe meet them twice or a second 00:13:46.659 --> 00:13:48.399 time or a third time over a period of a year 00:13:48.399 --> 00:13:51.039 or two or three so what I get is these I get 00:13:51.039 --> 00:13:53.740 these check -in moments now where people will 00:13:53.740 --> 00:13:55.399 see me they may introduce themselves they may 00:13:55.399 --> 00:13:57.960 ask me a question and they'll be like I want 00:13:57.960 --> 00:14:01.659 to do this do you have any advice they say I 00:14:01.659 --> 00:14:04.080 want to do this do you have any advice and I'll 00:14:04.080 --> 00:14:06.980 be like oh these are my thoughts or i might ask 00:14:06.980 --> 00:14:08.679 them some questions to encourage them or coach 00:14:08.679 --> 00:14:10.799 them to come up with their own ideas and then 00:14:10.799 --> 00:14:13.039 off they go into the world right and i have no 00:14:13.039 --> 00:14:15.379 clue what they're up to and i can't but when 00:14:15.379 --> 00:14:17.700 they come back to me and they say i took this 00:14:17.700 --> 00:14:19.139 piece of advice or i didn't listen to you at 00:14:19.139 --> 00:14:22.600 all but i did this this this instead and they've 00:14:22.600 --> 00:14:24.980 made some sort of progress or difference or pivot 00:14:24.980 --> 00:14:28.440 or new partnership or they've opened up a new 00:14:28.440 --> 00:14:31.539 horizon for themselves that person that's willing 00:14:31.539 --> 00:14:35.750 to take those steps I categorize as the successful 00:14:35.750 --> 00:14:40.009 bucket. I think that also with small business 00:14:40.009 --> 00:14:43.070 and early stage business it's really hard to 00:14:43.070 --> 00:14:47.309 pick a unicorn and I don't try but what I look 00:14:47.309 --> 00:14:49.529 for is the person because they could pivot or 00:14:49.529 --> 00:14:51.970 change or twist as I previously described and 00:14:51.970 --> 00:14:55.450 so if they demonstrate progress I'll support 00:14:55.450 --> 00:14:59.360 them because you don't know, I don't know how 00:14:59.360 --> 00:15:01.179 long that journey is to get for them to get to 00:15:01.179 --> 00:15:02.960 that success point where they're working towards 00:15:02.960 --> 00:15:08.659 it every day. I really believe in that and I 00:15:08.659 --> 00:15:12.320 really believe in them. Interesting. What do 00:15:12.320 --> 00:15:14.919 you think it's you know in the UK ecosystem what 00:15:14.919 --> 00:15:17.759 do you think are things that are fundamentally 00:15:17.759 --> 00:15:21.320 like wrong? What does actually need to change 00:15:21.320 --> 00:15:24.879 in the whole startup game? I mean you said nothing 00:15:24.879 --> 00:15:27.730 needs to change. everything there's something 00:15:27.730 --> 00:15:30.309 wrong with everything somewhere but I just that 00:15:30.309 --> 00:15:35.370 question doesn't resonate with me I think what 00:15:35.370 --> 00:15:41.429 this UK's industry in comparison to maybe America's 00:15:41.429 --> 00:15:45.509 I think is like a lie we need to let go of the 00:15:45.509 --> 00:15:49.049 UK market is not the American market it is like 00:15:49.049 --> 00:15:52.610 four times as small it is four times smaller 00:15:52.610 --> 00:15:57.899 it is so conservative, it is. And that's the 00:15:57.899 --> 00:16:02.240 culture of the place. And so, now understanding 00:16:02.240 --> 00:16:05.200 that, playing to strengths and navigating the 00:16:05.200 --> 00:16:07.379 culture as you understand it is, in my opinion, 00:16:07.500 --> 00:16:10.240 a better way of achieving success than wishing 00:16:10.240 --> 00:16:13.159 it was something else. And I think a lot of early 00:16:13.159 --> 00:16:15.840 stage founders wish the UK was like America, 00:16:16.059 --> 00:16:18.259 where they drop you a million dollars on an idea 00:16:18.259 --> 00:16:23.340 and that's just not it. I need to press pause 00:16:23.340 --> 00:16:28.580 on that. but i'll finish the question yeah um 00:16:28.580 --> 00:16:33.259 i think that all right one minute i'll come back 00:16:33.259 --> 00:16:35.620 to the question but the last thing i think that 00:16:35.620 --> 00:16:38.860 is if you understand that the british are conservative 00:16:38.860 --> 00:16:42.500 all right then let's take you to elephant see 00:16:42.500 --> 00:16:44.620 i need to come back but i think the longer short 00:16:44.620 --> 00:16:47.919 of it is that um go i'll cut i'll meet you the 00:16:47.919 --> 00:16:50.240 longer short of it is that if you don't if you 00:16:50.240 --> 00:16:52.399 don't accept the uk market for being conservative 00:16:52.720 --> 00:16:55.299 then you'll never understand that in the UK market 00:16:55.299 --> 00:16:58.259 you need to make sales before you or make significant 00:16:58.259 --> 00:17:00.940 traction before anyone looks at you, hears from 00:17:00.940 --> 00:17:03.620 you and that dictates in the time of this model 00:17:03.620 --> 00:17:08.339 and the effort you put down and so without really 00:17:08.339 --> 00:17:11.900 common sense of that, it stifles you and it stifles 00:17:11.900 --> 00:17:14.000 your progress. What advice would you give to 00:17:14.000 --> 00:17:21.079 someone liking a business? Experiment. I think 00:17:21.079 --> 00:17:24.259 all my nightmares are the same you know but similar 00:17:24.259 --> 00:17:26.200 to when you asked me beforehand what can I tell 00:17:26.200 --> 00:17:28.839 an entrepreneur and my first reaction was just 00:17:28.839 --> 00:17:33.859 stop and keep a log book of where you fell. I 00:17:33.859 --> 00:17:35.839 come from a science background and that's literally 00:17:35.839 --> 00:17:38.599 experiment and document your experiments to understand 00:17:38.599 --> 00:17:41.380 your failures or what successes are and if your 00:17:41.380 --> 00:17:43.319 experiment is repeatable then you're onto some 00:17:43.319 --> 00:17:46.029 money because that's the process. if you're successful 00:17:46.029 --> 00:17:47.930 in your experiments repeatable because experiments 00:17:47.930 --> 00:17:49.990 should be repeatable then you want some money 00:17:49.990 --> 00:17:52.670 because that's a process you can engage in and 00:17:52.670 --> 00:17:56.089 engage other people in with or without you to 00:17:56.089 --> 00:17:58.170 go and make some progress make some money make 00:17:58.170 --> 00:18:01.869 some sales demonstrate your value so on and so 00:18:01.869 --> 00:18:05.710 forth and so i'm a big i'm a big advocate of 00:18:05.710 --> 00:18:08.609 experiments and just try and think small and 00:18:08.609 --> 00:18:12.210 so my friend gave me this piece of advice and 00:18:12.210 --> 00:18:14.349 she's an industrial designer her name is Jo Barnard 00:18:16.749 --> 00:18:19.490 and she was like when you have an idea and you're 00:18:19.490 --> 00:18:21.369 trying to create a proposition or you're trying 00:18:21.369 --> 00:18:24.470 to create something that people buy and you identify 00:18:24.470 --> 00:18:26.769 the smallest way to bring this to life to test 00:18:26.769 --> 00:18:28.750 it out because some people might have a grand 00:18:28.750 --> 00:18:30.589 old idea oh I want to build a insurance company 00:18:30.589 --> 00:18:32.730 for this or I want to build a this company for 00:18:32.730 --> 00:18:35.349 that or whatever and those things are phenomenal 00:18:35.349 --> 00:18:40.150 I don't ever knock anyone's hustle but in starting 00:18:40.150 --> 00:18:43.980 practically That's the smallest way we're going 00:18:43.980 --> 00:18:47.220 to bring this to life. Maybe as I go call up 00:18:47.220 --> 00:18:48.960 all the insurance brokers and see who I want, 00:18:49.160 --> 00:18:51.539 who's open to partnering to see if I can sell 00:18:51.539 --> 00:18:54.920 this policy in the first place. That saves me 00:18:54.920 --> 00:18:57.779 a whole heap of time and effort before I have 00:18:57.779 --> 00:18:59.700 to go get the insurance license for this or that 00:18:59.700 --> 00:19:01.720 or whatever. I want to write a book. Okay, write 00:19:01.720 --> 00:19:03.579 a blog. See if people actually read it first. 00:19:04.559 --> 00:19:08.480 I want to create an app. Just try selling the 00:19:08.480 --> 00:19:11.359 service first. Let's see, work out what the steps 00:19:11.359 --> 00:19:13.319 in the service are. That will inform your app. 00:19:13.779 --> 00:19:16.079 I'm very, you can wizard of us, you can wizard 00:19:16.079 --> 00:19:19.500 of us, wizard of us and app, right? Cause it's 00:19:19.500 --> 00:19:22.079 just putting all the different things in order. 00:19:22.420 --> 00:19:24.740 Maybe it's a little bit manual. Maybe it's take 00:19:24.740 --> 00:19:27.519 a little bit of human labor and understand that's 00:19:27.519 --> 00:19:29.119 not where the scalability is at, but you have 00:19:29.119 --> 00:19:31.039 to actually prove the proposition works for us. 00:19:31.599 --> 00:19:36.549 And so this idea of starting, Big ideas as small 00:19:36.549 --> 00:19:39.710 as possible and scaling up has always been a 00:19:39.710 --> 00:19:43.910 thing. So example for me Before I started teaching 00:19:43.910 --> 00:19:45.769 workshops and what to build is University and 00:19:45.769 --> 00:19:47.230 all this type of stuff and I'm not even there 00:19:47.230 --> 00:19:49.529 yet It's like I just said, okay, what does a 00:19:49.529 --> 00:19:51.950 what what does a class look like? and I took 00:19:51.950 --> 00:19:53.869 a class on top of a cafe and elephant castle 00:19:53.869 --> 00:19:56.509 and just Sold some tickets to see if people saw 00:19:56.509 --> 00:19:58.809 some value in me teaching this material in the 00:19:58.809 --> 00:20:03.380 first place And domino effect years later, then 00:20:03.380 --> 00:20:05.339 yeah, it's huge and there's not even the things 00:20:05.339 --> 00:20:09.440 it needs to be. But that's a real proof point. 00:20:09.960 --> 00:20:14.119 Before I launched the mentoring platform, I put 00:20:14.119 --> 00:20:17.380 up a list and said, who wanted to be mentored? 00:20:18.099 --> 00:20:20.059 Then I took the list of people that wanted mentorship 00:20:20.059 --> 00:20:22.740 and I showed that to people who I thought could 00:20:22.740 --> 00:20:25.279 be great mentors and said, hey, here's some demand. 00:20:26.400 --> 00:20:28.720 Should we work together to meet this demand? 00:20:29.719 --> 00:20:32.299 it continues before we had 50 people in our incubator 00:20:32.299 --> 00:20:35.160 we had 15 and we just saw if they wanted to spend 00:20:35.160 --> 00:20:39.619 time with us and went through the process so 00:20:39.619 --> 00:20:41.940 those are examples of just start with what you 00:20:41.940 --> 00:20:46.380 have and start small and scale up and when you 00:20:46.380 --> 00:20:48.859 do scale up what's the best advice you can give 00:20:48.859 --> 00:20:52.980 for people looking for investment because there's 00:20:52.980 --> 00:20:54.420 always there's always a gap between you know 00:20:54.420 --> 00:20:56.339 launching an idea and then actually going out 00:20:56.509 --> 00:20:59.109 and asking and talking with investors so you 00:20:59.109 --> 00:21:02.269 know from all the startups you know what works 00:21:02.269 --> 00:21:06.730 what doesn't work uh everyone's journey of raising 00:21:06.730 --> 00:21:09.049 money has been so different and i think raising 00:21:09.049 --> 00:21:11.509 money is such an intimate process i can't talk 00:21:11.509 --> 00:21:14.349 for anyone else's perspective apart from my own 00:21:14.349 --> 00:21:15.789 and how i've raised money or how i've raised 00:21:15.789 --> 00:21:20.630 project funding over the years i think what i've 00:21:20.630 --> 00:21:25.289 tried to do in all cases I align myself with 00:21:25.289 --> 00:21:28.349 my partner's dreams and ambitions and demonstrate 00:21:28.349 --> 00:21:32.210 to them that by working with me that's a vehicle 00:21:32.210 --> 00:21:34.670 for them to meet their goals and their dreams 00:21:34.670 --> 00:21:37.190 and ambitions. An example of when I was talking 00:21:37.190 --> 00:21:38.890 earlier, it's like Somerset House had a race 00:21:38.890 --> 00:21:40.869 action plan and had no way to bring it to life 00:21:40.869 --> 00:21:43.789 and I had all this stuff that I needed to just 00:21:43.789 --> 00:21:46.430 reimagine and put together to create a new product 00:21:46.430 --> 00:21:48.250 or service, right? I had everything apart from 00:21:48.250 --> 00:21:51.190 the workspace. And so I was like, okay, an institutional, 00:21:51.190 --> 00:21:53.900 like, date. and so I was like okay Somerset House 00:21:53.900 --> 00:21:56.519 here's an opportunity if you provide the institutional 00:21:56.519 --> 00:21:58.579 weight and workspace and I provide the mentorship 00:21:58.579 --> 00:22:01.200 and master classes I believe we can make this 00:22:01.200 --> 00:22:06.960 incredibly industry impactful thing and for Morgan 00:22:06.960 --> 00:22:09.660 Stanley they were investing in arts and culture 00:22:09.660 --> 00:22:12.819 so this was a little bit of a they give Somerset 00:22:12.819 --> 00:22:14.799 House a wider investment under which we got a 00:22:14.799 --> 00:22:17.019 percentage of but this was an opportunity for 00:22:17.019 --> 00:22:19.480 them to be experimental and demonstrate something 00:22:19.480 --> 00:22:22.700 for a community that needed it and Increased 00:22:22.700 --> 00:22:29.200 their... What's the word? Increased their industry 00:22:29.200 --> 00:22:33.000 reputation for doing so. And the opportunity 00:22:33.000 --> 00:22:35.240 came relatively cheap to them, right? Because 00:22:35.240 --> 00:22:36.960 it was a part of a wider investment for something 00:22:36.960 --> 00:22:40.019 else. So we really got to demonstrate value, 00:22:40.099 --> 00:22:43.200 value, value over to get our first check on the 00:22:43.200 --> 00:22:47.319 line. Secondly, I think that relationships... 00:22:47.319 --> 00:22:48.819 So I guess the first thing is articulating the 00:22:48.819 --> 00:22:50.619 opportunity and making someone's dreams come 00:22:50.619 --> 00:22:52.490 true. If you rate someone's jeans country they'll 00:22:52.490 --> 00:22:56.690 pay you anything. Secondly, it's about relationship. 00:22:57.210 --> 00:23:01.049 I think that I look at all the people that have 00:23:01.049 --> 00:23:03.730 invested in me heavy over the last few years 00:23:03.730 --> 00:23:08.910 like it's a real, real deep years long relationship 00:23:08.910 --> 00:23:12.349 and in that relationship we kept showing up for 00:23:12.349 --> 00:23:15.750 each other and keeping showing up for each other 00:23:15.750 --> 00:23:20.160 we kept recommitting to each other. keeping recommitting 00:23:20.160 --> 00:23:23.319 to each other turns a partnership from a one 00:23:23.319 --> 00:23:25.299 -year partnership to a five -year partnership 00:23:25.299 --> 00:23:29.039 and so that says something about always being 00:23:29.039 --> 00:23:32.420 present and being like I can't do so many like 00:23:32.420 --> 00:23:34.779 there's only so many relationships I can have 00:23:34.779 --> 00:23:37.440 like MNC touch in so much after any given because 00:23:37.440 --> 00:23:39.640 I'm one individual and I don't have that level 00:23:39.640 --> 00:23:41.440 of I haven't worked out that level of scalability 00:23:41.440 --> 00:23:45.779 yet but what I recognize is that hundreds of 00:23:45.779 --> 00:23:48.480 thousands of pounds have been turned over through 00:23:48.480 --> 00:23:51.960 these partnerships and that in being present 00:23:51.960 --> 00:23:54.059 and trying to stay in tune with them and trying 00:23:54.059 --> 00:23:56.900 to help fulfill their creative desires and ambitions 00:23:56.900 --> 00:24:00.380 and really working to also demonstrate positive 00:24:00.380 --> 00:24:03.299 impact into the community so they can see that 00:24:03.299 --> 00:24:05.940 their money's been put to good use and we reinvest 00:24:05.940 --> 00:24:08.779 again year after year after year has been something 00:24:08.779 --> 00:24:12.079 really interesting. The last thing is something 00:24:12.079 --> 00:24:16.630 I'm trying to learn for myself now And it's about 00:24:16.630 --> 00:24:21.609 never actually inviting someone to invest in 00:24:21.609 --> 00:24:26.130 you directly, asking for them, asking them advice 00:24:26.130 --> 00:24:29.670 and support on how to participate in an opportunity. 00:24:32.349 --> 00:24:34.369 Asking, so it's never about asking for cash right 00:24:34.369 --> 00:24:36.609 now, I don't think, because I think a lot of 00:24:36.609 --> 00:24:38.170 people that get lots of cash, they just get fobbed 00:24:38.170 --> 00:24:41.170 off a little bit. So I think it's genuinely about 00:24:41.170 --> 00:24:44.529 asking whatever potential partner you have. for 00:24:44.529 --> 00:24:47.269 advice and support on how to take advantage of 00:24:47.269 --> 00:24:49.390 an opportunity and if you're smart if you're 00:24:49.390 --> 00:24:52.170 coming to them in the first place right the opportunity's 00:24:52.170 --> 00:24:54.670 got something to do with them so if i'm going 00:24:54.670 --> 00:24:58.029 to a law firm and i'm saying hey i have all these 00:24:58.029 --> 00:25:01.690 startups and i really want to support them um 00:25:01.690 --> 00:25:04.289 get access to better legal advice because i've 00:25:04.289 --> 00:25:06.309 seen that they're signing really poor contracts 00:25:06.309 --> 00:25:10.680 and this and that and lastly We are an internationally 00:25:10.680 --> 00:25:13.480 recognized accelerator program who have recognized 00:25:13.480 --> 00:25:16.819 if they help their startups get access to this 00:25:16.819 --> 00:25:18.880 legal advice, we can increase our international 00:25:18.880 --> 00:25:21.099 rankings. And I'm looking for people to help 00:25:21.099 --> 00:25:24.660 me. I'm looking for people and partners to help 00:25:24.660 --> 00:25:27.519 me achieve that. Who want to be associated with 00:25:27.519 --> 00:25:30.480 that? Do you have any recommendations? Usually, 00:25:31.480 --> 00:25:33.259 the self -serving person thinks of themselves. 00:25:33.990 --> 00:25:36.029 Especially if you say, oh, yeah, I'm willing 00:25:36.029 --> 00:25:38.289 to accept proven or value and client support 00:25:38.289 --> 00:25:41.809 and so on and so forth, right? And so a person 00:25:41.809 --> 00:25:44.049 thinks of themselves. And so maybe after you 00:25:44.049 --> 00:25:46.490 go like that, they throw their hat. And if they 00:25:46.490 --> 00:25:48.009 don't think of themselves or it's not for them, 00:25:48.329 --> 00:25:50.410 you haven't directly explicitly asked them. And 00:25:50.410 --> 00:25:52.349 so they can refer you and recommend you to someone 00:25:52.349 --> 00:25:53.990 who they think might be open to the opportunity. 00:25:54.789 --> 00:25:56.630 It's a warmer way of getting around stuff. And 00:25:56.630 --> 00:25:59.349 so that's been my approach recently to open some 00:25:59.349 --> 00:26:03.619 doors and achieve a few things. It's a good approach. 00:26:03.740 --> 00:26:05.799 It's a very good approach. It's a good approach. 00:26:06.900 --> 00:26:18.279 It's a good approach. It's a good approach. It's 00:26:18.279 --> 00:26:18.279 a good approach. It's a good approach. It's a 00:26:18.279 --> 00:26:18.700 good approach. It's a good approach. It's a good 00:26:18.700 --> 00:26:24.279 approach. It's a good approach. It's a good approach. 00:26:24.279 --> 00:26:31.140 It's a good approach. It's a good approach. organisation 00:26:31.140 --> 00:26:37.680 called SEVA, Centre for Voluntary Action or something, 00:26:38.200 --> 00:26:41.039 but he was the one that helped Unlimited get 00:26:41.039 --> 00:26:43.539 their endowment out of the Millennium Fund and 00:26:43.539 --> 00:26:45.319 he's helped raise about two or three hundred 00:26:45.319 --> 00:26:47.240 million in his career after talking to them and 00:26:47.240 --> 00:26:49.200 listening to them and I was just like okay and 00:26:49.200 --> 00:26:52.779 so like I recently sat down with him and just 00:26:52.779 --> 00:26:55.059 tried to ask him to unpick and unpack that because 00:26:55.059 --> 00:26:58.140 I think Yeah, I even want to make my raisin. 00:26:58.140 --> 00:26:59.779 I want to raise more money. Do you see what I'm 00:26:59.779 --> 00:27:01.299 trying to say? I want to get sharper on such 00:27:01.299 --> 00:27:03.619 a thing. That's the concept that he's set me 00:27:03.619 --> 00:27:06.019 like a month ago and I've just been trying to 00:27:06.019 --> 00:27:09.940 practice that implement that See how it goes 00:27:09.940 --> 00:27:12.400 take a bit of discipline. That's the only thing 00:27:12.400 --> 00:27:16.920 I Was about to ask you on the whole discipline 00:27:16.920 --> 00:27:21.059 things, you know what on a personal level what 00:27:21.059 --> 00:27:23.579 keeps you grounded and balanced because we know 00:27:23.579 --> 00:27:25.880 it takes a lot of long hours you know every time 00:27:25.880 --> 00:27:28.259 we run an event together i know i always keep 00:27:28.259 --> 00:27:30.880 you up very very late so what keeps you grounded 00:27:30.880 --> 00:27:32.740 and how to keep that balance you know in your 00:27:32.740 --> 00:27:36.279 personal life i think ground and balance are 00:27:36.279 --> 00:27:40.839 two different things grounded that emotional 00:27:40.839 --> 00:27:42.940 safety net i was talking about going to see your 00:27:42.940 --> 00:27:44.940 friends going to talk to a therapist taking some 00:27:44.940 --> 00:27:47.180 time to pray and the reason why i believe in 00:27:47.180 --> 00:27:50.059 god is because I recognize that if I was controlling 00:27:50.059 --> 00:27:52.960 every, if, if I actually believed I was the center 00:27:52.960 --> 00:27:54.779 of control for everything, everything, and everything 00:27:54.779 --> 00:27:58.519 was fucked, like I would have no, I'll go crazy 00:27:58.519 --> 00:28:01.240 because I'll be like there's no higher, there's 00:28:01.240 --> 00:28:03.059 nothing, there's everything outside of my control 00:28:03.059 --> 00:28:04.619 so I need to believe in a higher power to just 00:28:04.619 --> 00:28:08.019 give myself some sort of like sensibility like 00:28:08.019 --> 00:28:09.700 just to be able to offer it because things, otherwise 00:28:09.700 --> 00:28:15.160 things wouldn't make sense to me. And so like 00:28:15.319 --> 00:28:18.099 that keeps me grounded those having a say in 00:28:18.099 --> 00:28:19.779 that and believing in God keeps me grounded because 00:28:19.779 --> 00:28:22.160 if I didn't believe in God I'd just go crazy 00:28:22.160 --> 00:28:27.019 because nothing would make sense like I think 00:28:27.019 --> 00:28:41.839 that staying I think that walking and doing this 00:28:41.839 --> 00:28:48.450 work with huge ego is unwise. And the reason 00:28:48.450 --> 00:28:52.289 why it's unwise is because, like, I haven't clocked 00:28:52.289 --> 00:28:54.150 the game yet. Do you see what I'm trying to say? 00:28:54.369 --> 00:28:56.809 Like, I'm also just an entrepreneur on a journey. 00:28:57.289 --> 00:29:00.089 I just happen to have been tenacious and persevering 00:29:00.089 --> 00:29:03.670 and made it so far, and I'm looking to just, 00:29:03.849 --> 00:29:05.630 whilst I'm here, might as well clear the way, 00:29:05.809 --> 00:29:08.269 clear some work, get the weed whacker out, and, 00:29:08.269 --> 00:29:10.349 like, make it, make the road easier to travel. 00:29:10.599 --> 00:29:12.480 So at least if I had to start from scratch myself 00:29:12.480 --> 00:29:16.059 I knew I had to start from scratch but also other 00:29:16.059 --> 00:29:19.480 people can come along this path. There's just 00:29:19.480 --> 00:29:22.740 something about that which is I never had to 00:29:22.740 --> 00:29:26.200 be rich to give, I just had to give was always 00:29:26.200 --> 00:29:30.160 in my like in my spirit and the reality is if 00:29:30.160 --> 00:29:32.380 you pour your community you'll never go hungry 00:29:32.380 --> 00:29:36.920 has always been like a thought in my mind that's 00:29:36.920 --> 00:29:39.839 kept me humble because I was just like They feed 00:29:39.839 --> 00:29:42.039 me and I feed them and it's a symbiotic relationship. 00:29:42.680 --> 00:29:45.500 Yeah, that makes sense. No, the reason I was 00:29:45.500 --> 00:29:47.920 asking this question is because you have the 00:29:47.920 --> 00:29:50.859 best email response that I've ever seen on anyone's 00:29:50.859 --> 00:29:52.460 and I've actually read that years ago and I thought 00:29:52.460 --> 00:29:54.680 this is a brilliant thing to send out to people, 00:29:54.859 --> 00:29:57.380 which is I only read my emails on X amount of 00:29:57.380 --> 00:29:59.299 days so it's going to take a while. If it's urgent, 00:29:59.460 --> 00:30:02.079 give me a call. which is brilliant right because 00:30:02.079 --> 00:30:04.000 then people know okay he's going to take a while 00:30:04.000 --> 00:30:06.539 to reply or if actually it's not that urgent 00:30:06.539 --> 00:30:09.160 so it can wait and that's perfectly fine it's 00:30:09.160 --> 00:30:11.960 a good way of organizing your time because otherwise 00:30:11.960 --> 00:30:15.160 I think there's way too many emails I don't know 00:30:15.160 --> 00:30:17.819 if I'm gonna undo myself here but you know that 00:30:17.819 --> 00:30:23.440 is it's a trick that email response is a trick 00:30:23.440 --> 00:30:25.160 and I don't know if it's a good trick or a bad 00:30:25.160 --> 00:30:30.019 trick um The reason why it's a trick is because 00:30:30.019 --> 00:30:32.019 I read my emails just like everyone else when 00:30:32.019 --> 00:30:35.440 the notification comes in 24 -7 But in what it 00:30:35.440 --> 00:30:37.619 does is it affords me time and space to reply 00:30:37.619 --> 00:30:41.880 to you So I have to be on the email 24 -7. I 00:30:41.880 --> 00:30:44.039 read it. I'm on my phone 24 -7. You see me I'm 00:30:44.039 --> 00:30:46.559 texting doing something all the time like I've 00:30:46.559 --> 00:30:49.259 got your mail. I do there's a tree our system 00:30:49.259 --> 00:30:51.799 and the reality is I'm always out in the world 00:30:51.799 --> 00:30:55.839 making things and so we're trying to bring an 00:30:55.839 --> 00:30:58.920 idea or concept or something to life and So, 00:31:00.099 --> 00:31:02.359 just affords me time and space and divorces you 00:31:02.359 --> 00:31:04.640 from the expectation that I'm gonna respond immediately. 00:31:05.619 --> 00:31:07.740 And that space has given me some freedom and 00:31:07.740 --> 00:31:11.299 flexibility. Where I think it might fail is the 00:31:11.299 --> 00:31:16.720 fact that sales, in my opinion, is about responsiveness. 00:31:19.319 --> 00:31:22.740 Sales... is about building a relationship, building 00:31:22.740 --> 00:31:24.319 a rapport and getting someone to trust you and 00:31:24.319 --> 00:31:26.779 demonstrating that you have those skills and 00:31:26.779 --> 00:31:29.000 values that they might need to achieve their 00:31:29.000 --> 00:31:32.720 goal. Giving someone too much space and too much 00:31:32.720 --> 00:31:35.940 time can really detract from that relationship, 00:31:36.319 --> 00:31:38.319 that intensity, especially out front in that 00:31:38.319 --> 00:31:41.220 relationship, which you might need to win someone 00:31:41.220 --> 00:31:44.119 and make them a believer and get them over the 00:31:44.119 --> 00:31:48.990 line. And so I have to be very Someone I really 00:31:48.990 --> 00:31:50.369 want to sell, I might take the number and just 00:31:50.369 --> 00:31:52.710 text them from the beginning because it then 00:31:52.710 --> 00:31:55.809 at least gives them a way to bypass that auto 00:31:55.809 --> 00:31:59.509 response. Yeah, it's just, it's a tool that I 00:31:59.509 --> 00:32:01.509 use to buy myself time more so than anything, 00:32:01.970 --> 00:32:04.509 but I'm still, I'm not as disciplined as the 00:32:04.509 --> 00:32:09.150 email describes. You know, it reminded me, well, 00:32:09.210 --> 00:32:11.880 first of all... I first read it on Tim Ferriss 00:32:11.880 --> 00:32:14.740 book the four -hour workweek and this ages ago 00:32:14.740 --> 00:32:16.500 and I thought it's a really good idea because 00:32:16.500 --> 00:32:18.740 there's being stopped with emails and then it 00:32:18.740 --> 00:32:21.759 reminded me of something that Vladimir Putin 00:32:21.759 --> 00:32:24.259 does which is he used to be actually an English 00:32:24.259 --> 00:32:27.500 translator but he refuses to speak English with 00:32:27.500 --> 00:32:30.099 any world leader and she said no you speak with 00:32:30.099 --> 00:32:32.519 my translator and then when he translates this 00:32:32.519 --> 00:32:36.019 to Russian then I reply in Russian and that's 00:32:36.019 --> 00:32:38.789 how it kind of goes The thing is, he has all 00:32:38.789 --> 00:32:40.650 the time in the world to think about his answers 00:32:40.650 --> 00:32:43.650 every single time. He knows perfectly well what 00:32:43.650 --> 00:32:45.789 someone else is saying. He just wants that time 00:32:45.789 --> 00:32:47.390 to think about it and then get back to that. 00:32:47.529 --> 00:32:50.170 So it's a good system to have in place. During 00:32:50.170 --> 00:32:52.410 this time, being compared to Vladimir Putin, 00:32:52.690 --> 00:32:56.829 I'm going to say just on the slashes that the 00:32:56.829 --> 00:32:58.970 only similarity is that we both wanted time to 00:32:58.970 --> 00:33:01.109 think and even him having time to think, he had 00:33:01.109 --> 00:33:03.930 too much time to think. Nonetheless, there is 00:33:03.930 --> 00:33:07.599 a benefit in that, right? there's a benefit in 00:33:07.599 --> 00:33:10.480 not responding off the cuff because you might 00:33:10.480 --> 00:33:12.019 miss out on some opportunities and you don't 00:33:12.019 --> 00:33:15.900 get to evaluate what someone has said in its 00:33:15.900 --> 00:33:18.839 entirety. It's created this, creating that distance 00:33:18.839 --> 00:33:22.079 for me has allowed me to maximise opportunities. 00:33:22.599 --> 00:33:25.279 Like, oh kill, can you do this thing? Yeah, but 00:33:25.279 --> 00:33:27.099 if I'm not smart enough to ask you for cash whilst 00:33:27.099 --> 00:33:30.380 doing it, then I failed. Or value in kind or 00:33:30.380 --> 00:33:33.240 quid pro quo or something. like that space gives 00:33:33.240 --> 00:33:35.519 me an opportunity to have space to think that 00:33:35.519 --> 00:33:38.359 time gives me space to think about it in a way 00:33:38.359 --> 00:33:41.980 that we're not leaving here empty -handed and 00:33:41.980 --> 00:33:43.779 that goes back to what i described beforehand 00:33:43.779 --> 00:33:46.960 about balance and not having any and now it leaving 00:33:46.960 --> 00:33:50.039 here empty -handed is never the goal if i'm gonna 00:33:50.039 --> 00:33:53.279 participate and participate meaningfully then 00:33:53.279 --> 00:33:58.700 i'm taking everything that comes with it that's 00:33:58.700 --> 00:34:01.099 a good mindset Akhil, if people want to reach 00:34:01.099 --> 00:34:04.759 out to you, how can they do so? I guess text 00:34:04.759 --> 00:34:10.900 me, innit? Don't say anymore. No I don't, don't 00:34:10.900 --> 00:34:12.659 say anymore. Like Ricardo can put my number on 00:34:12.659 --> 00:34:14.440 the show notes if you really want to find me, 00:34:14.480 --> 00:34:16.019 you can text me. But I don't know if you have 00:34:16.019 --> 00:34:17.780 to tell you what these days, like I've got thousands 00:34:17.780 --> 00:34:19.539 of people's numbers in my phone so when you text 00:34:19.539 --> 00:34:22.139 me please like leave your name. Like so many 00:34:22.139 --> 00:34:25.059 people just text me out of the blue and... I 00:34:25.059 --> 00:34:27.840 love it but I just hate asking who are you so 00:34:27.840 --> 00:34:31.900 please leave your name so I can know who you 00:34:31.900 --> 00:34:35.960 are and I can get back to you wouldn't it be 00:34:35.960 --> 00:34:38.579 best to put your LinkedIn profile because otherwise 00:34:38.579 --> 00:34:41.099 you might get a lot of texts from everyone listening 00:34:41.099 --> 00:34:44.199 to the podcast I'm not mad if I don't like it 00:34:44.199 --> 00:34:46.659 I don't have to respond it's that simple but 00:34:46.659 --> 00:34:49.940 yeah you can just text me it's alright Okay, 00:34:50.079 --> 00:34:51.719 you'll be the first guest with a number on the 00:34:51.719 --> 00:34:55.079 podcast. Let's see how that goes. Let's see. 00:34:55.280 --> 00:34:58.079 So it's really interesting, but I did it. I had 00:34:58.079 --> 00:35:01.179 a talk a few weeks ago and I finished my talk 00:35:01.179 --> 00:35:03.219 and they said, after all this, text me, text 00:35:03.219 --> 00:35:04.980 me, text me, you put your email up. What's the 00:35:04.980 --> 00:35:06.619 irony in that? And I was like, okay, that's a 00:35:06.619 --> 00:35:09.139 bit inauthentic. So hey, you'll find my number. 00:35:10.360 --> 00:35:15.159 It's fine. Okay. All right. Thank you. Thank 00:35:15.159 --> 00:35:16.599 you so much for your time. I really appreciate 00:35:16.599 --> 00:35:37.389 it. This podcast is sponsored by OpenExperts 00:35:37.389 --> 00:35:40.429 .com. OpenExperts is the place to go if you're 00:35:40.429 --> 00:35:42.289 looking to talk with top experts from around 00:35:42.289 --> 00:35:46.789 the world. That is open -experts .com. This podcast 00:35:46.969 --> 00:35:50.809 is also sponsored by ODEVTECH. ODEVTECH is your 00:35:50.809 --> 00:35:53.110 premier software development partner. 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