Welcome to the Innovation Conversation, a podcast
about innovators, both in business and real life.
Hosted by myself, Ricardo Rescual and Harry McCona.
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Hi, and welcome to another episode of the Innovation
Conversation. Today we are joined by Akil Benjamin.
Akil, welcome. Hi, good morning. How are you?
Good. How are you? Today, not bad. I've got kids
at home, so that's going to be an interesting
time when recording, but I've got a little bit
of help, so let's see how we go. Thanks for being
here. Well, thanks for having me here. That's
the best way. I'm looking actually looking forward
to this because we actually haven't... I think
over the last few months we've done so much work,
but we've not had the opportunity to just like
sit and talk. And so that's how it goes. So the
audience doesn't know much about you, unfortunately,
if they're just listening to this. So would you
like to tell our audience a bit more about yourself?
Yeah, I guess so. Really, basically, I don't
like work, so I became an entrepreneur, but I
got really good at it. I opened the design studio
of my friends called Comuzee and we designed
products and services to help large organizations
connect with their clients better and then I
took that practice of building something desirable,
building something that people want and I started
working with small business and it's kind of
the same like product category out of a multinational
is the same as running one small business down
on the ground and I started to obsess about that
practice. And so after a while I decided to start
using my design skills to help businesses grow
and have them back. Nice. And how did the whole
Somerset House came about? Because obviously
you work from there, you have a big space there,
and you also help a lot of businesses. So how
did that come about? So I was already doing a
lot of work. to help small business. So beforehand
I was working with MSC Satchi and we had something
called MSC Satchi Saturday School and we were
teaching communities the basics of business.
And these were like online and in -person workshops
that people could come and learn like business
planning, digital marketing, wellbeing at work
or some like business finance essentially. That
was the space that we had and that's what we
did. Then the pandemic happened. And we opened
up a huge mentoring platform called Mental Black
Business, where we were the third largest mentoring
platform in the country at one stage, helping
thousands of businesses grow, thousands of black
businesses grow. And that evolved because then
I had the classes and I had this mentorship aspect.
And I have a real ambition to want to create
a university. And so at Somerset House, they
had the space. They had the physical space. prestigious
building and all this stuff and so I tried to
imagine what it would be like if we put those
master classes together alongside the mentoring
in a specific venue. Some of us at House had
their race action plan and we were looking at
different ways. I was working with them in the
building and I cared because I worked there and
we were looking at ways to make that real and
authentic and we said okay let's open the Black
Business Residency and what that would be is
12 months of free workspace alongside mentorship
master classes and all the resources we can master
to give to you and we would do that to help you
grow and that was a really fledgling idea that
we had a fortunate position for Morgan Stanley
to give us our first sponsorship check to pilot
it and we did well like and I'm not saying it's
perfection at the front, but I think between
like the perseverance and the tenacity and the
glowing and the raising some money ourselves
and then Morgan Stanley even putting on more
and bringing in other partners such as my original
partner MNC coming to support it. We started
to create like this program which was sustainable
that we could run over five cohorts helping about
125 entrepreneurs so far close like the entrepreneurs
earning that. I think that's been really interesting
because now we've created a space where at Somerset
House where we can support entrepreneurs to have
sustainable creative careers where they're earning
powerful to no white bits. And I think that's
a really interesting impact and privilege of
doing the work that we did. It's amazing work
and you can see, I mean, when you walk in, you
can see the energy in the place, right? You can
feel the energy in the place. It's really, everyone's
super motivated and you can see they actually,
they're going to go out to do amazing things.
And it's really impressive what we've built.
what was the biggest struggle when you're building
this because it's not it's not easy right so
what's the thing that you really struggle with?
So you know what I did a talk in Milton Keynes
bar less than a month ago and I was describing
building out our residency program when I was
like this is the biggest service design project
of my life and it's really interesting because
as a designer you get to draw out how you think
the world should work and you hand over someone
else to execute it but in me persisting in running
this program for the last four years, that consistency,
that effort that's showing up, that being present
even when life is grinding you down, that understanding
or acknowledging that you're gonna make a mess
of things because this is real life not just
like a simulation. How you then choose to respond
is the difference between you doing this as a
token initiative or you doing this with a real
duty, dedication and care for the community you're
trying to serve. People tell us about ourselves
all the time but what I think is important is
that we were brave enough to listen in the first
place, we're brave enough to adapt, we don't
try and make the same mistakes twice, we work
really hard as a collective team to really put
our money where our mouth is and really demonstrate
our values. That's really, it's a really interesting
thing to navigate whilst working with an institution.
Somerset House is amazing because they were brave
enough to take this journey with me. But navigating
such a setup is still a challenge, right? We
still turn it off every year and we still keep
getting better and better and that's a testament
to the team that we work with in Summer Setout
to achieve that. But also the businesses that
we work with who are graceful with us, just they're
graceful with us. They can see that we're here
to help them and so when we do start adding that
value, it stacks up over time. and we take the
wins as we can get them. So what advice would
you give to young entrepreneurs listening in?
Just start, innit? Like, I think so many people
get caught up in that I need this or I need that
or like, it's not likely. More waste of time.
You don't really need that much cash to start
and just to test out a proposition or an idea.
You don't need like that much expertise to do
much like the technology for selling stuff gets
easier and easier every day like people can give
you money on your phone now um and that's like
you could cut phones together and all sorts like
that so like making money has never been easier
and so i the bravery to start i think is it And
the reason why I say that is because 90 % of
businesses will never raise venture capital fundings.
And there's like 5 million small businesses in
the UK. If we said like 4 .5 million businesses
out of that whole lot, no matter black, white,
orange or blue, never going to raise cash, then
how are you going to make money? It's awesome.
And so the quicker you can get stuck in the mud
or the quicker you can go two foot in and just
go in to try and sell whatever you think. your
products or services, I think is the best advice
I can give you and it's the best learning you
have. After that, document your mistake. You
don't make them twice. I think making a mistake
once is inevitable, but making it twice is doubly
expensive. And so, there are other mistakes to
make in life, isn't there? There's so many. And
so, getting caught in a perpetual loop by not
changing what you're doing is an unwise suggestion.
I think if you stick with those two things you
can make some serious ground and outpace your
peers even the ones who are smarter or got the
better credentials or whatever the heck. Nothing
beats delivery. That's very true. Do when times
get tough because you know when you're starting
something and when you're building something
there are some very very hard moments. What do
you do when that happens? when times are tough.
Like beforehand, it would crush me. I have been
absolutely obliterated by my job, but I guess
there has been lessons and learnings where we
start building up this resilience, if that makes
any sense, and you realise the world doesn't
end. You might have to start again, but the world
doesn't end. Those lessons, the first time is
always the hardest, like the first... like apocalypse
or the world ending crisis is always the hardest
but after a while like you move through it and
you even learn not to waste a good crisis but
that's another that's another topic but practically
for me i got probably like three things right
first things first i'm hyper obsessive and so
you can reach a moment a tunnel vision and not
even notice it so going to see your friends is
actually really cool Cause they just like expand
my frame of thinking they remind me that I can
take this in a lighthearted fashion, give me
the comfort to laugh about, like going and seeing
some friends and maintaining friendships I think
is an unspoken, is unspoken and undervalued and
I would really encourage that idea of community
and friendship and leaning in and going to spend
time with people you love. I think that can really
lighten the mood and lighten the load and possibly
inspire you to get out of whatever situation
you're in. Secondly, go to a therapist. Sometimes
these feelings that you might have might be too
heavy to hold by yourself. Yeah, pay someone
off load them and charge it to your business.
I understand therapy can be expensive when it's
unbudgeted. You might be what the heck, but if
you're starting to make progress, stop putting
that in the budget. Like, 70 quid a session,
200 pound a month, you'd probably spend it on
expenses anyway. Put in the budget, man. Put
in the budget, someone to cry to, so you can
at least be walking around reasonable. And I
might voice note myself a lot to just get the
thoughts off my mind and articulate it. But then
lastly, I pray a lot. And the reason why I pray
is similar to the reason why I have Westminster.
I think the action of prayer is just as powerful
as hoping God fulfills it in itself, right? The
action of prayer, in my opinion, is this thing
where you might be going through something, you
might be challenged by something, and this might
be the first time you are actually articulated
that worry, that thought, that challenge out
loud. Through the action of prayer and articulating
it out loud, then you've got some sensibility
of what this thing actually is that's bothering
you. and now you can work with it to make a change
or make a difference and make some progress and
I think prayer in that regard or it possibly
being the first time you've articulated your
pain point is like a blessing in itself and such
a insightful moment when you get to it because
you probably have to humble yourself to say you're
struggling in the first place but the world opens
up after you say that out loud right because
then you start knowing what to ask for, you start
knowing what to look for, the solution becomes
more apparent. Those are my three real safety
nets. I'm friendship, therapy, prayer, talking
out loud. And they've saved me from LML. Yeah.
I was wondering, you know, when you talk with
people, because obviously you meet a lot of startups,
you meet a lot of entrepreneurs. Can you tell
from the get -go they're going to be successful
or not? Or can you tell if they're on the correct
path or not? Because obviously there's no way
of telling if someone ultimately will be successful
because we often fail multiple times until we
reach success. But can you tell if they're on
the right path straight away? So usually not
straight away, but maybe in the second or third
meeting of them I can usually work something
out. So I am reasonably prominent in my ecosystem
and I put on a lot of events for my ecosystem
so I'm a focal point so I get to not just meet
people once but maybe meet them twice or a second
time or a third time over a period of a year
or two or three so what I get is these I get
these check -in moments now where people will
see me they may introduce themselves they may
ask me a question and they'll be like I want
to do this do you have any advice they say I
want to do this do you have any advice and I'll
be like oh these are my thoughts or i might ask
them some questions to encourage them or coach
them to come up with their own ideas and then
off they go into the world right and i have no
clue what they're up to and i can't but when
they come back to me and they say i took this
piece of advice or i didn't listen to you at
all but i did this this this instead and they've
made some sort of progress or difference or pivot
or new partnership or they've opened up a new
horizon for themselves that person that's willing
to take those steps I categorize as the successful
bucket. I think that also with small business
and early stage business it's really hard to
pick a unicorn and I don't try but what I look
for is the person because they could pivot or
change or twist as I previously described and
so if they demonstrate progress I'll support
them because you don't know, I don't know how
long that journey is to get for them to get to
that success point where they're working towards
it every day. I really believe in that and I
really believe in them. Interesting. What do
you think it's you know in the UK ecosystem what
do you think are things that are fundamentally
like wrong? What does actually need to change
in the whole startup game? I mean you said nothing
needs to change. everything there's something
wrong with everything somewhere but I just that
question doesn't resonate with me I think what
this UK's industry in comparison to maybe America's
I think is like a lie we need to let go of the
UK market is not the American market it is like
four times as small it is four times smaller
it is so conservative, it is. And that's the
culture of the place. And so, now understanding
that, playing to strengths and navigating the
culture as you understand it is, in my opinion,
a better way of achieving success than wishing
it was something else. And I think a lot of early
stage founders wish the UK was like America,
where they drop you a million dollars on an idea
and that's just not it. I need to press pause
on that. but i'll finish the question yeah um
i think that all right one minute i'll come back
to the question but the last thing i think that
is if you understand that the british are conservative
all right then let's take you to elephant see
i need to come back but i think the longer short
of it is that um go i'll cut i'll meet you the
longer short of it is that if you don't if you
don't accept the uk market for being conservative
then you'll never understand that in the UK market
you need to make sales before you or make significant
traction before anyone looks at you, hears from
you and that dictates in the time of this model
and the effort you put down and so without really
common sense of that, it stifles you and it stifles
your progress. What advice would you give to
someone liking a business? Experiment. I think
all my nightmares are the same you know but similar
to when you asked me beforehand what can I tell
an entrepreneur and my first reaction was just
stop and keep a log book of where you fell. I
come from a science background and that's literally
experiment and document your experiments to understand
your failures or what successes are and if your
experiment is repeatable then you're onto some
money because that's the process. if you're successful
in your experiments repeatable because experiments
should be repeatable then you want some money
because that's a process you can engage in and
engage other people in with or without you to
go and make some progress make some money make
some sales demonstrate your value so on and so
forth and so i'm a big i'm a big advocate of
experiments and just try and think small and
so my friend gave me this piece of advice and
she's an industrial designer her name is Jo Barnard
and she was like when you have an idea and you're
trying to create a proposition or you're trying
to create something that people buy and you identify
the smallest way to bring this to life to test
it out because some people might have a grand
old idea oh I want to build a insurance company
for this or I want to build a this company for
that or whatever and those things are phenomenal
I don't ever knock anyone's hustle but in starting
practically That's the smallest way we're going
to bring this to life. Maybe as I go call up
all the insurance brokers and see who I want,
who's open to partnering to see if I can sell
this policy in the first place. That saves me
a whole heap of time and effort before I have
to go get the insurance license for this or that
or whatever. I want to write a book. Okay, write
a blog. See if people actually read it first.
I want to create an app. Just try selling the
service first. Let's see, work out what the steps
in the service are. That will inform your app.
I'm very, you can wizard of us, you can wizard
of us, wizard of us and app, right? Cause it's
just putting all the different things in order.
Maybe it's a little bit manual. Maybe it's take
a little bit of human labor and understand that's
not where the scalability is at, but you have
to actually prove the proposition works for us.
And so this idea of starting, Big ideas as small
as possible and scaling up has always been a
thing. So example for me Before I started teaching
workshops and what to build is University and
all this type of stuff and I'm not even there
yet It's like I just said, okay, what does a
what what does a class look like? and I took
a class on top of a cafe and elephant castle
and just Sold some tickets to see if people saw
some value in me teaching this material in the
first place And domino effect years later, then
yeah, it's huge and there's not even the things
it needs to be. But that's a real proof point.
Before I launched the mentoring platform, I put
up a list and said, who wanted to be mentored?
Then I took the list of people that wanted mentorship
and I showed that to people who I thought could
be great mentors and said, hey, here's some demand.
Should we work together to meet this demand?
it continues before we had 50 people in our incubator
we had 15 and we just saw if they wanted to spend
time with us and went through the process so
those are examples of just start with what you
have and start small and scale up and when you
do scale up what's the best advice you can give
for people looking for investment because there's
always there's always a gap between you know
launching an idea and then actually going out
and asking and talking with investors so you
know from all the startups you know what works
what doesn't work uh everyone's journey of raising
money has been so different and i think raising
money is such an intimate process i can't talk
for anyone else's perspective apart from my own
and how i've raised money or how i've raised
project funding over the years i think what i've
tried to do in all cases I align myself with
my partner's dreams and ambitions and demonstrate
to them that by working with me that's a vehicle
for them to meet their goals and their dreams
and ambitions. An example of when I was talking
earlier, it's like Somerset House had a race
action plan and had no way to bring it to life
and I had all this stuff that I needed to just
reimagine and put together to create a new product
or service, right? I had everything apart from
the workspace. And so I was like, okay, an institutional,
like, date. and so I was like okay Somerset House
here's an opportunity if you provide the institutional
weight and workspace and I provide the mentorship
and master classes I believe we can make this
incredibly industry impactful thing and for Morgan
Stanley they were investing in arts and culture
so this was a little bit of a they give Somerset
House a wider investment under which we got a
percentage of but this was an opportunity for
them to be experimental and demonstrate something
for a community that needed it and Increased
their... What's the word? Increased their industry
reputation for doing so. And the opportunity
came relatively cheap to them, right? Because
it was a part of a wider investment for something
else. So we really got to demonstrate value,
value, value over to get our first check on the
line. Secondly, I think that relationships...
So I guess the first thing is articulating the
opportunity and making someone's dreams come
true. If you rate someone's jeans country they'll
pay you anything. Secondly, it's about relationship.
I think that I look at all the people that have
invested in me heavy over the last few years
like it's a real, real deep years long relationship
and in that relationship we kept showing up for
each other and keeping showing up for each other
we kept recommitting to each other. keeping recommitting
to each other turns a partnership from a one
-year partnership to a five -year partnership
and so that says something about always being
present and being like I can't do so many like
there's only so many relationships I can have
like MNC touch in so much after any given because
I'm one individual and I don't have that level
of I haven't worked out that level of scalability
yet but what I recognize is that hundreds of
thousands of pounds have been turned over through
these partnerships and that in being present
and trying to stay in tune with them and trying
to help fulfill their creative desires and ambitions
and really working to also demonstrate positive
impact into the community so they can see that
their money's been put to good use and we reinvest
again year after year after year has been something
really interesting. The last thing is something
I'm trying to learn for myself now And it's about
never actually inviting someone to invest in
you directly, asking for them, asking them advice
and support on how to participate in an opportunity.
Asking, so it's never about asking for cash right
now, I don't think, because I think a lot of
people that get lots of cash, they just get fobbed
off a little bit. So I think it's genuinely about
asking whatever potential partner you have. for
advice and support on how to take advantage of
an opportunity and if you're smart if you're
coming to them in the first place right the opportunity's
got something to do with them so if i'm going
to a law firm and i'm saying hey i have all these
startups and i really want to support them um
get access to better legal advice because i've
seen that they're signing really poor contracts
and this and that and lastly We are an internationally
recognized accelerator program who have recognized
if they help their startups get access to this
legal advice, we can increase our international
rankings. And I'm looking for people to help
me. I'm looking for people and partners to help
me achieve that. Who want to be associated with
that? Do you have any recommendations? Usually,
the self -serving person thinks of themselves.
Especially if you say, oh, yeah, I'm willing
to accept proven or value and client support
and so on and so forth, right? And so a person
thinks of themselves. And so maybe after you
go like that, they throw their hat. And if they
don't think of themselves or it's not for them,
you haven't directly explicitly asked them. And
so they can refer you and recommend you to someone
who they think might be open to the opportunity.
It's a warmer way of getting around stuff. And
so that's been my approach recently to open some
doors and achieve a few things. It's a good approach.
It's a very good approach. It's a good approach.
It's a good approach. It's a good approach. It's
a good approach. It's a good approach. It's a
good approach. It's a good approach. It's a good
approach. It's a good approach. It's a good approach.
It's a good approach. It's a good approach. organisation
called SEVA, Centre for Voluntary Action or something,
but he was the one that helped Unlimited get
their endowment out of the Millennium Fund and
he's helped raise about two or three hundred
million in his career after talking to them and
listening to them and I was just like okay and
so like I recently sat down with him and just
tried to ask him to unpick and unpack that because
I think Yeah, I even want to make my raisin.
I want to raise more money. Do you see what I'm
trying to say? I want to get sharper on such
a thing. That's the concept that he's set me
like a month ago and I've just been trying to
practice that implement that See how it goes
take a bit of discipline. That's the only thing
I Was about to ask you on the whole discipline
things, you know what on a personal level what
keeps you grounded and balanced because we know
it takes a lot of long hours you know every time
we run an event together i know i always keep
you up very very late so what keeps you grounded
and how to keep that balance you know in your
personal life i think ground and balance are
two different things grounded that emotional
safety net i was talking about going to see your
friends going to talk to a therapist taking some
time to pray and the reason why i believe in
god is because I recognize that if I was controlling
every, if, if I actually believed I was the center
of control for everything, everything, and everything
was fucked, like I would have no, I'll go crazy
because I'll be like there's no higher, there's
nothing, there's everything outside of my control
so I need to believe in a higher power to just
give myself some sort of like sensibility like
just to be able to offer it because things, otherwise
things wouldn't make sense to me. And so like
that keeps me grounded those having a say in
that and believing in God keeps me grounded because
if I didn't believe in God I'd just go crazy
because nothing would make sense like I think
that staying I think that walking and doing this
work with huge ego is unwise. And the reason
why it's unwise is because, like, I haven't clocked
the game yet. Do you see what I'm trying to say?
Like, I'm also just an entrepreneur on a journey.
I just happen to have been tenacious and persevering
and made it so far, and I'm looking to just,
whilst I'm here, might as well clear the way,
clear some work, get the weed whacker out, and,
like, make it, make the road easier to travel.
So at least if I had to start from scratch myself
I knew I had to start from scratch but also other
people can come along this path. There's just
something about that which is I never had to
be rich to give, I just had to give was always
in my like in my spirit and the reality is if
you pour your community you'll never go hungry
has always been like a thought in my mind that's
kept me humble because I was just like They feed
me and I feed them and it's a symbiotic relationship.
Yeah, that makes sense. No, the reason I was
asking this question is because you have the
best email response that I've ever seen on anyone's
and I've actually read that years ago and I thought
this is a brilliant thing to send out to people,
which is I only read my emails on X amount of
days so it's going to take a while. If it's urgent,
give me a call. which is brilliant right because
then people know okay he's going to take a while
to reply or if actually it's not that urgent
so it can wait and that's perfectly fine it's
a good way of organizing your time because otherwise
I think there's way too many emails I don't know
if I'm gonna undo myself here but you know that
is it's a trick that email response is a trick
and I don't know if it's a good trick or a bad
trick um The reason why it's a trick is because
I read my emails just like everyone else when
the notification comes in 24 -7 But in what it
does is it affords me time and space to reply
to you So I have to be on the email 24 -7. I
read it. I'm on my phone 24 -7. You see me I'm
texting doing something all the time like I've
got your mail. I do there's a tree our system
and the reality is I'm always out in the world
making things and so we're trying to bring an
idea or concept or something to life and So,
just affords me time and space and divorces you
from the expectation that I'm gonna respond immediately.
And that space has given me some freedom and
flexibility. Where I think it might fail is the
fact that sales, in my opinion, is about responsiveness.
Sales... is about building a relationship, building
a rapport and getting someone to trust you and
demonstrating that you have those skills and
values that they might need to achieve their
goal. Giving someone too much space and too much
time can really detract from that relationship,
that intensity, especially out front in that
relationship, which you might need to win someone
and make them a believer and get them over the
line. And so I have to be very Someone I really
want to sell, I might take the number and just
text them from the beginning because it then
at least gives them a way to bypass that auto
response. Yeah, it's just, it's a tool that I
use to buy myself time more so than anything,
but I'm still, I'm not as disciplined as the
email describes. You know, it reminded me, well,
first of all... I first read it on Tim Ferriss
book the four -hour workweek and this ages ago
and I thought it's a really good idea because
there's being stopped with emails and then it
reminded me of something that Vladimir Putin
does which is he used to be actually an English
translator but he refuses to speak English with
any world leader and she said no you speak with
my translator and then when he translates this
to Russian then I reply in Russian and that's
how it kind of goes The thing is, he has all
the time in the world to think about his answers
every single time. He knows perfectly well what
someone else is saying. He just wants that time
to think about it and then get back to that.
So it's a good system to have in place. During
this time, being compared to Vladimir Putin,
I'm going to say just on the slashes that the
only similarity is that we both wanted time to
think and even him having time to think, he had
too much time to think. Nonetheless, there is
a benefit in that, right? there's a benefit in
not responding off the cuff because you might
miss out on some opportunities and you don't
get to evaluate what someone has said in its
entirety. It's created this, creating that distance
for me has allowed me to maximise opportunities.
Like, oh kill, can you do this thing? Yeah, but
if I'm not smart enough to ask you for cash whilst
doing it, then I failed. Or value in kind or
quid pro quo or something. like that space gives
me an opportunity to have space to think that
time gives me space to think about it in a way
that we're not leaving here empty -handed and
that goes back to what i described beforehand
about balance and not having any and now it leaving
here empty -handed is never the goal if i'm gonna
participate and participate meaningfully then
i'm taking everything that comes with it that's
a good mindset Akhil, if people want to reach
out to you, how can they do so? I guess text
me, innit? Don't say anymore. No I don't, don't
say anymore. Like Ricardo can put my number on
the show notes if you really want to find me,
you can text me. But I don't know if you have
to tell you what these days, like I've got thousands
of people's numbers in my phone so when you text
me please like leave your name. Like so many
people just text me out of the blue and... I
love it but I just hate asking who are you so
please leave your name so I can know who you
are and I can get back to you wouldn't it be
best to put your LinkedIn profile because otherwise
you might get a lot of texts from everyone listening
to the podcast I'm not mad if I don't like it
I don't have to respond it's that simple but
yeah you can just text me it's alright Okay,
you'll be the first guest with a number on the
podcast. Let's see how that goes. Let's see.
So it's really interesting, but I did it. I had
a talk a few weeks ago and I finished my talk
and they said, after all this, text me, text
me, text me, you put your email up. What's the
irony in that? And I was like, okay, that's a
bit inauthentic. So hey, you'll find my number.
It's fine. Okay. All right. Thank you. Thank
you so much for your time. I really appreciate
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