WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.859 Welcome to the Innovation Conversation, a podcast 00:00:02.859 --> 00:00:05.360 about innovators, both in business and real life. 00:00:05.860 --> 00:00:08.419 Hosted by myself, Ricardo Rescual and Harry McCona. 00:00:08.619 --> 00:00:11.660 This podcast is sponsored by OpenExperts .com. 00:00:11.919 --> 00:00:14.140 OpenExperts is a place to go if you're looking 00:00:14.140 --> 00:00:16.300 to talk with top experts from around the world. 00:00:16.539 --> 00:00:20.879 That is Open -Experts .com. This podcast is also 00:00:20.879 --> 00:00:24.539 sponsored by StartupNetworks .co .uk. Startup 00:00:24.539 --> 00:00:26.820 Networks, it's an online forum where you can 00:00:26.820 --> 00:00:28.739 find all the resources you need to learn your 00:00:28.739 --> 00:00:31.449 startup. from grants to investors to tips and 00:00:31.449 --> 00:00:33.250 tricks on how to be successful when you start. 00:00:33.770 --> 00:00:35.990 Hi, and welcome to another episode of the Innovation 00:00:35.990 --> 00:00:38.250 Conversation. Today we are joined by Chris Sayre. 00:00:38.350 --> 00:00:41.229 Chris, welcome. Hi, how are you doing, Ricardo? 00:00:42.310 --> 00:00:43.869 Very good, thank you. It's a pleasure having 00:00:43.869 --> 00:00:45.329 you here. Chris, would you like to introduce 00:00:45.329 --> 00:00:49.270 yourself to the audience, please? Sure. Basically, 00:00:49.450 --> 00:00:53.009 I'm Chris Sayre. I've been in a go -to -market 00:00:53.009 --> 00:00:56.090 role, sales, leading sales and marketing roles 00:00:56.090 --> 00:00:58.939 for the last 25 years. I've had the pleasure 00:00:58.939 --> 00:01:01.659 of working in a very broad range of engagements 00:01:01.659 --> 00:01:05.420 across all sorts of different sectors, but primarily 00:01:05.420 --> 00:01:09.680 in the telecoms and IT sectors, working for businesses 00:01:09.680 --> 00:01:14.280 who essentially want to expand in EMEA and in 00:01:14.280 --> 00:01:17.780 the US. And that broad range of companies that 00:01:17.780 --> 00:01:22.319 I've worked for includes three startup companies, 00:01:22.480 --> 00:01:24.599 which I'm very proud to say that two of them 00:01:24.599 --> 00:01:28.560 have been very successful. and a whole host of 00:01:28.560 --> 00:01:31.879 large companies, including large multinationals 00:01:31.879 --> 00:01:37.060 like IBM, Vodafone, WPP Group. So I would summarize 00:01:37.060 --> 00:01:41.159 myself as someone who's spent an awful lot of 00:01:41.159 --> 00:01:44.120 time in sales and marketing, hopefully learning 00:01:44.120 --> 00:01:47.200 a lot as I've been going. And then applying, 00:01:47.500 --> 00:01:49.859 I guess you could say the skills learned at the 00:01:49.859 --> 00:01:53.439 very large companies and then trying to take 00:01:53.439 --> 00:01:56.519 that to startup companies. after a bit of funding 00:01:56.519 --> 00:02:00.599 and taking them through a scale -up process towards 00:02:00.599 --> 00:02:02.859 some sort of exit. I was just wondering, because 00:02:02.859 --> 00:02:05.980 we connected before this, you're actually an 00:02:05.980 --> 00:02:07.540 accomplished founder, so you actually have an 00:02:07.540 --> 00:02:10.099 exit, which is something that's quite rare nowadays 00:02:10.099 --> 00:02:11.800 to find someone who actually thinks of an exit. 00:02:12.020 --> 00:02:15.639 How did that story go? Well, the full story of 00:02:15.639 --> 00:02:18.360 that actually is that there were, I'd like to 00:02:18.360 --> 00:02:22.669 say I was a full founder. I was certainly someone 00:02:22.669 --> 00:02:25.370 who's bought in as an investor early on in a 00:02:25.370 --> 00:02:30.469 business called Dex .io. And that was a very 00:02:30.469 --> 00:02:34.009 exciting time. Essentially, it was, as is very 00:02:34.009 --> 00:02:37.629 common, a sort of Scandinavian company with an 00:02:37.629 --> 00:02:40.150 absolutely fantastic idea. At the time, that 00:02:40.150 --> 00:02:43.930 was for web scraping services, which was very 00:02:43.930 --> 00:02:46.789 much a new technology. When you go back six, 00:02:46.810 --> 00:02:51.289 seven years ago in terms of It's a business amongst 00:02:51.289 --> 00:02:54.810 usage in corporate enterprise companies for the 00:02:54.810 --> 00:02:57.270 extraction of data from websites and putting 00:02:57.270 --> 00:02:59.810 that into a structured format which they could 00:02:59.810 --> 00:03:03.509 use to help them. Do that competitive intelligence 00:03:03.509 --> 00:03:07.430 and then obviously get one step ahead of the 00:03:07.430 --> 00:03:11.379 competition. But the case study there, if you 00:03:11.379 --> 00:03:14.300 like, was that I'd worked previously with the 00:03:14.300 --> 00:03:18.080 CEO, Jacob Lerigan, in Denmark many years before. 00:03:18.680 --> 00:03:23.400 I was in my consultancy role in the UK, looking 00:03:23.400 --> 00:03:25.699 after several clients. And he basically called 00:03:25.699 --> 00:03:27.419 me up and said, we'd like to come and take this 00:03:27.419 --> 00:03:30.939 technology to the UK as a next logical step from 00:03:30.939 --> 00:03:35.270 Scandinavia, which is not that uncommon. At first 00:03:35.270 --> 00:03:37.270 I was kind of resistant to it just mainly because 00:03:37.270 --> 00:03:39.110 I didn't really understand what web scraping 00:03:39.110 --> 00:03:43.229 was at the time. But once I got the concept of 00:03:43.229 --> 00:03:46.229 that, I could see its potential. And I was brought 00:03:46.229 --> 00:03:49.710 in to really assist with a launch in the UK marketplace 00:03:49.710 --> 00:03:53.289 that we set up an office in London. And we set 00:03:53.289 --> 00:03:58.030 about essentially growing that business and expanding 00:03:58.030 --> 00:04:00.169 that business, not only actually into the UK. 00:04:00.509 --> 00:04:05.289 but also into other countries and obviously primarily 00:04:05.289 --> 00:04:12.069 into the US. So it started off in terms of priorities 00:04:12.069 --> 00:04:15.569 was to get some customers on board in the UK. 00:04:16.170 --> 00:04:20.490 And one of the things that we visited from the 00:04:20.490 --> 00:04:24.250 learnings in Denmark was that the audience that 00:04:24.250 --> 00:04:26.910 they were going after in the initial stages were 00:04:26.910 --> 00:04:30.399 developers. And they were charging a low subscription 00:04:30.399 --> 00:04:35.079 rate for access to the Dexi platform, which would 00:04:35.079 --> 00:04:38.860 basically enable developers and other power users 00:04:38.860 --> 00:04:42.000 to scrape data from publicly available websites 00:04:42.000 --> 00:04:46.879 for themselves. What the key pivotal moment was 00:04:46.879 --> 00:04:50.980 with Jacob was to switch that emphasis into an 00:04:50.980 --> 00:04:53.839 enterprise solution whereby we basically took 00:04:53.839 --> 00:04:56.759 a price point from a few hundred dollars a month. 00:04:57.050 --> 00:05:01.670 to actually around forty thousand dollars paid 00:05:01.670 --> 00:05:04.470 annually in advance for an enterprise license. 00:05:05.149 --> 00:05:08.569 That was kind of stage one. At this point, the 00:05:08.569 --> 00:05:11.029 enterprises are now adopting this technology 00:05:11.029 --> 00:05:14.430 to extract data. They were very previously using 00:05:14.430 --> 00:05:16.629 a lot of desk research and subscription to different 00:05:16.629 --> 00:05:18.790 types of data, but this would give them a chance 00:05:18.790 --> 00:05:22.170 to get real time data in their hands. So it was 00:05:22.170 --> 00:05:26.829 a very exciting time. I think as part of that 00:05:26.829 --> 00:05:29.730 transition, my involvement in that was also to 00:05:29.730 --> 00:05:33.170 think about what's the key thing we've got to 00:05:33.170 --> 00:05:37.110 do here. First of all, we were very lucky in 00:05:37.110 --> 00:05:39.709 the sense that we had the best technology in 00:05:39.709 --> 00:05:43.290 the marketplace at the time, and that was certainly 00:05:43.290 --> 00:05:47.089 very, very helpful. But from the enterprise perspective, 00:05:47.329 --> 00:05:51.449 I guess one of the core reasons for our success 00:05:51.449 --> 00:05:55.829 was that we understood that the enterprises would 00:05:55.829 --> 00:05:58.949 want the appropriate support for those services 00:05:58.949 --> 00:06:02.029 so you know once once you're dealing with enterprises 00:06:02.029 --> 00:06:05.050 you're going to need to have implementation people 00:06:05.050 --> 00:06:07.230 you're going to have customer success people 00:06:07.230 --> 00:06:10.149 you need to have teams of stakeholders on phones 00:06:10.149 --> 00:06:14.089 to the enterprise on a regular basis understanding 00:06:14.089 --> 00:06:18.490 the requirement dealing with any changes that 00:06:18.490 --> 00:06:24.079 they need. and also explaining any data issues 00:06:24.079 --> 00:06:28.060 or just basically giving them some insights into 00:06:28.060 --> 00:06:31.720 the data. So we established ourselves very quickly 00:06:31.720 --> 00:06:36.019 as being the enterprise supplier of choice, if 00:06:36.019 --> 00:06:40.500 you like, with a leading edge technology. And 00:06:40.500 --> 00:06:45.040 this led to a very rapid expansion of our success. 00:06:45.699 --> 00:06:47.939 So, you know, I think we would start with a few 00:06:47.939 --> 00:06:49.939 hundred thousand dollars turnover pretty much, 00:06:49.939 --> 00:06:51.839 you know, when I got involved in the business, 00:06:52.139 --> 00:06:56.180 we grew that to significant millions over a period 00:06:56.180 --> 00:06:58.860 of about four or five years. And during that 00:06:58.860 --> 00:07:02.860 course, we also then expanded with the acquisition 00:07:02.860 --> 00:07:06.379 of a US company. So that was another exciting 00:07:06.379 --> 00:07:08.660 stage, because if you're going to enter a new 00:07:08.660 --> 00:07:11.360 marketplace, you know, clearly you can you can 00:07:11.360 --> 00:07:14.629 go the route of the organic approach. Obviously, 00:07:14.870 --> 00:07:18.930 you can also look at making an acquisition of 00:07:18.930 --> 00:07:22.149 another company. During that time, we had an 00:07:22.149 --> 00:07:24.170 opportunity to work with a company called Mazenda, 00:07:24.310 --> 00:07:27.250 which was another leading data scraping provider 00:07:27.250 --> 00:07:32.490 at the time based out of the US in Utah. We then 00:07:32.490 --> 00:07:34.990 joined together with them. Essentially, it was 00:07:34.990 --> 00:07:39.529 a takeover by Dexi. That then gave us an immediate 00:07:39.529 --> 00:07:41.709 presence in the US with quite a good team of 00:07:41.709 --> 00:07:45.680 people. And then we expanded those sales, you 00:07:45.680 --> 00:07:48.279 know, considerably over the next couple of years, 00:07:48.519 --> 00:07:52.220 and then got the interest of a company called 00:07:52.220 --> 00:07:57.879 Engage3, who then purchased Dexi in 2022 for 00:07:57.879 --> 00:08:02.740 around $30 million. So that was the journey. 00:08:03.379 --> 00:08:06.319 And I would say the combination of that success 00:08:06.319 --> 00:08:11.199 was first of all, as I as I hinted, we had the 00:08:11.230 --> 00:08:15.269 We had the fortunate position of having a technology 00:08:15.269 --> 00:08:18.889 that was new and exciting and very powerful for 00:08:18.889 --> 00:08:21.490 retailers and brands and that's having real time 00:08:21.490 --> 00:08:26.529 data for them to basically win against their 00:08:26.529 --> 00:08:29.230 competition from an intelligence point of view. 00:08:29.389 --> 00:08:33.830 I think we had the timing which was this rapid 00:08:33.830 --> 00:08:35.889 adoption that was going on for this data so it 00:08:35.889 --> 00:08:39.190 was a real hot cake at the time. The other one 00:08:39.190 --> 00:08:43.850 was moving into the enterprise space and obviously 00:08:43.850 --> 00:08:46.250 having a very powerful technology. So the combination 00:08:46.250 --> 00:08:48.610 of those things together and the team that we 00:08:48.610 --> 00:08:53.409 had meant we had some really rapid success. And 00:08:53.409 --> 00:08:56.669 I think even our sales team grew to around 20 00:08:56.669 --> 00:08:59.230 people during that time. And we'd started off 00:08:59.230 --> 00:09:01.250 with just myself and the CEO doing the selling 00:09:01.250 --> 00:09:08.460 back in London in 2018, 2017. So that was the 00:09:08.460 --> 00:09:12.019 journey. Lots to talk about there, but hopefully 00:09:12.019 --> 00:09:13.940 that gives you a good insight into what happened. 00:09:14.159 --> 00:09:16.759 No, I mean, now I'm super curious. I'm wondering 00:09:16.759 --> 00:09:19.299 what were the key lessons you've learned, because 00:09:19.299 --> 00:09:23.000 that's a long journey from having a product that's 00:09:23.000 --> 00:09:26.299 not been, that the market's not aware that it 00:09:26.299 --> 00:09:28.639 exists. So in terms of the market, that's a challenge, 00:09:28.700 --> 00:09:31.039 but then also growing internationally and then 00:09:31.039 --> 00:09:33.259 acquiring other companies. I mean, what were 00:09:33.259 --> 00:09:38.929 the key lessons there? Well, I mean, I think 00:09:38.929 --> 00:09:42.769 we had that choice. As I say, I mean, we had 00:09:42.769 --> 00:09:45.669 that moment where we had to decide whether or 00:09:45.669 --> 00:09:47.350 not we were going to grow organically. In actual 00:09:47.350 --> 00:09:50.289 fact, the lesson learned there was that we did 00:09:50.289 --> 00:09:52.450 actually try to go organically into some new 00:09:52.450 --> 00:09:55.450 marketplaces. And we realized actually that was 00:09:55.450 --> 00:10:00.009 extremely costly and was going to take too much 00:10:00.009 --> 00:10:05.549 time to be successful. So we realized As we started 00:10:05.549 --> 00:10:08.309 our expansion process that actually the best 00:10:08.309 --> 00:10:11.330 way was to acquire another company already present 00:10:11.330 --> 00:10:13.750 in the market place because we just would not 00:10:13.750 --> 00:10:17.289 be able to acquire. I'm a presence in that market 00:10:17.289 --> 00:10:19.950 place anywhere near as quickly we wouldn't have 00:10:19.950 --> 00:10:22.129 had the credibility you wouldn't have had the 00:10:22.129 --> 00:10:24.450 resources and the talents on the ground so i 00:10:24.450 --> 00:10:28.309 think there was a very there was a very big learning 00:10:28.309 --> 00:10:31.970 curve that in terms of the approach to be taken 00:10:31.970 --> 00:10:36.179 and we did. Initially try to just hire a couple 00:10:36.179 --> 00:10:39.120 of key people over in the US who worked in similar 00:10:39.120 --> 00:10:43.000 industries and grow it that way. But as I say, 00:10:43.019 --> 00:10:46.299 we were very fortunate to team up with Mazenda 00:10:46.299 --> 00:10:50.019 and that was extremely successful. I think that 00:10:50.019 --> 00:10:53.700 would be one of the key lessons there. I'm wondering 00:10:53.700 --> 00:10:56.159 how is the relationship between investors throughout 00:10:56.159 --> 00:10:59.559 this entire journey? Were they very open to giving 00:10:59.559 --> 00:11:01.679 more money to the company or how did that work? 00:11:02.529 --> 00:11:04.490 Well, it's like all things isn't it once you 00:11:04.490 --> 00:11:06.509 become successful a lot more people get interested 00:11:06.509 --> 00:11:09.389 but actually complete hats off to the CEO Jacob 00:11:09.389 --> 00:11:12.750 and Also, the other founder Henrik at the time 00:11:12.750 --> 00:11:17.309 is they were it was a bootstraps situation And 00:11:17.309 --> 00:11:19.889 there had been some initial I think minor funding 00:11:19.889 --> 00:11:22.309 from the Danish government in the very early 00:11:22.309 --> 00:11:28.070 stages business but they Were only very much 00:11:28.070 --> 00:11:30.789 sort of angel funders to get to get some incubation 00:11:30.789 --> 00:11:35.269 going various businesses and then actually we 00:11:35.269 --> 00:11:37.490 were in a very very fortunate situation that 00:11:37.490 --> 00:11:42.190 our sales grew so rapidly that we were able to 00:11:42.190 --> 00:11:45.950 avoid the need for having any initial investment 00:11:45.950 --> 00:11:48.950 through our journey right up to the point in 00:11:48.950 --> 00:11:53.490 which we sold to engage three in fact so we other 00:11:53.490 --> 00:11:57.250 than you know leveraging bank loans and all the 00:11:57.250 --> 00:12:01.159 other usual sources of income or sources of revenue, 00:12:01.419 --> 00:12:05.480 sorry, sources of lending, we didn't actually 00:12:05.480 --> 00:12:09.679 need to go to any other third party investor. 00:12:09.980 --> 00:12:11.840 You find there's a lot of companies in the UK 00:12:11.840 --> 00:12:14.039 that always want to go to the US market because 00:12:14.039 --> 00:12:15.799 it's a bigger market, it's the same language, 00:12:16.080 --> 00:12:18.940 it just makes it a good business asset. Was it 00:12:18.940 --> 00:12:21.539 very hard to go into the market in terms of all 00:12:21.539 --> 00:12:25.090 the legal logistics or was it actually Whereas 00:12:25.090 --> 00:12:30.870 you can cut that off. Classic. It's actually 00:12:30.870 --> 00:12:32.490 the first time that actually happened on the 00:12:32.490 --> 00:12:36.009 podcast, so I might just leave it on. So as I 00:12:36.009 --> 00:12:38.070 was saying, was it hard to deal with all the 00:12:38.070 --> 00:12:41.070 legal and logistics of moving to the US? Or quite 00:12:41.070 --> 00:12:42.610 on the contrary, it's very straightforward? Well, 00:12:42.690 --> 00:12:45.350 I think as I say, I think that the answer to 00:12:45.350 --> 00:12:46.850 your question is that if you're going to go and 00:12:46.850 --> 00:12:49.169 do it yourself organically, obviously you have 00:12:49.169 --> 00:12:52.049 to go and learn the rules. And those rules are 00:12:52.049 --> 00:12:54.889 also very depending on which part of the US you're 00:12:54.889 --> 00:12:56.649 going into where you're going to base yourself 00:12:56.649 --> 00:12:59.549 etc so there is a big learning curve that there 00:12:59.549 --> 00:13:02.490 is a cost that you have to get some local legal 00:13:02.490 --> 00:13:06.169 advice and financial contacts and all sorts of 00:13:06.169 --> 00:13:08.190 other things and also understand a little bit 00:13:08.190 --> 00:13:13.309 about the culture there and we know we circumvented 00:13:13.309 --> 00:13:16.009 that particular issue by going for acquisition 00:13:16.009 --> 00:13:18.470 at which point you're then adopting you know 00:13:18.470 --> 00:13:22.049 a very you know, a very established situation 00:13:22.049 --> 00:13:24.629 and existing customers already got all those 00:13:24.629 --> 00:13:27.710 things covered. So, you know, I think my recommendation 00:13:27.710 --> 00:13:30.070 would be that, you know, you know, ideally, you 00:13:30.070 --> 00:13:33.750 would team up with another organization, perhaps 00:13:33.750 --> 00:13:36.950 even think about maybe a channel to sell through 00:13:36.950 --> 00:13:39.309 if you if you if that's something that could 00:13:39.309 --> 00:13:41.129 work for the particular product or service that 00:13:41.129 --> 00:13:43.509 you think you've taken to the US. But definitely 00:13:43.509 --> 00:13:45.710 in terms of speed, I will be looking at that 00:13:45.710 --> 00:13:50.590 route rather than you know, trying to do it yourself 00:13:50.590 --> 00:13:53.009 and going over that it is possible, of course, 00:13:53.590 --> 00:13:56.230 but you know, you will inevitably be hiring individuals 00:13:56.230 --> 00:13:59.330 that will know things. And that is a possible 00:13:59.330 --> 00:14:01.889 route, but much, much better if you can go to 00:14:01.889 --> 00:14:04.450 an established company, because obviously, when 00:14:04.450 --> 00:14:08.250 we think about from a sales perspective, especially 00:14:08.250 --> 00:14:11.889 in the US, they are they want to be buying from, 00:14:11.889 --> 00:14:15.740 you know, US type companies. with people with 00:14:15.740 --> 00:14:18.200 US accents and all the rest of it. So I think 00:14:18.200 --> 00:14:22.000 there are many advantages of just finding a company 00:14:22.000 --> 00:14:25.100 which you can merge with or that you can potentially 00:14:25.100 --> 00:14:27.299 take over. I always like to ask this question, 00:14:27.460 --> 00:14:29.539 which is, what was the lowest moment in the company? 00:14:29.700 --> 00:14:32.700 The moment where you guys decided you were considering 00:14:32.700 --> 00:14:34.559 quitting and said, you know what, let's just 00:14:34.559 --> 00:14:37.179 push forward with this. Well, I can tell you 00:14:37.179 --> 00:14:39.519 now, there was never a moment where we thought 00:14:39.519 --> 00:14:41.320 we were going to quit, but there were certainly 00:14:41.320 --> 00:14:43.850 some hairy moments. And most of those moments 00:14:43.850 --> 00:14:46.009 you can imagine for small businesses all around 00:14:46.009 --> 00:14:49.610 your cash flow. So I think, you know, we, we, 00:14:49.750 --> 00:14:52.070 I think, you know, as, as many, many companies, 00:14:52.269 --> 00:14:54.049 in fact, a couple of startups have been, you 00:14:54.049 --> 00:14:57.049 know, we've been a month away from wondering 00:14:57.049 --> 00:14:59.710 how we're going to make payroll. Um, you know, 00:14:59.710 --> 00:15:02.070 it's, it's, it's interesting because when you're 00:15:02.070 --> 00:15:04.210 in a, when you're in a growth stage with a few 00:15:04.210 --> 00:15:06.629 people at the beginning of the company, um, you 00:15:06.629 --> 00:15:08.509 know, this is to be expected. And I think it's 00:15:08.509 --> 00:15:11.289 part of the path, of course, basically, if you're, 00:15:11.289 --> 00:15:13.669 um, you know, driving your own business that 00:15:13.669 --> 00:15:15.850 things will get very tight on the money front. 00:15:16.269 --> 00:15:19.269 But I think once you start to get through 15, 00:15:19.330 --> 00:15:23.649 20 employees, then obviously it becomes quite 00:15:23.649 --> 00:15:25.710 serious because a lot of those people weren't 00:15:25.710 --> 00:15:29.750 with you right at the beginning. And making payroll, 00:15:29.809 --> 00:15:31.610 making ends meet is probably one of the most 00:15:31.610 --> 00:15:35.389 stressful moments that you can have, I think. 00:15:36.439 --> 00:15:39.399 Um, so I think, you know, I wouldn't say low 00:15:39.399 --> 00:15:41.860 points, but certainly, um, you know, biggest 00:15:41.860 --> 00:15:44.340 challenges, because I think in our case, and 00:15:44.340 --> 00:15:46.120 I think I would say this to any, any entrepreneur, 00:15:46.220 --> 00:15:49.340 you know, basically, you know, you've got to 00:15:49.340 --> 00:15:51.259 believe in your product, you've got to believe 00:15:51.259 --> 00:15:53.879 in your, in your, in your service and what you're 00:15:53.879 --> 00:15:56.940 trying to do. And I think that most of the successful 00:15:56.940 --> 00:15:59.980 people will never give up on that. One obviously 00:15:59.980 --> 00:16:05.139 assumes that you've chosen, um, you know, a disruptive. 00:16:05.950 --> 00:16:08.850 product or service to go to market with, and 00:16:08.850 --> 00:16:11.450 that you've done your homework in terms of your 00:16:11.450 --> 00:16:14.830 go to market and the opportunity assessment of 00:16:14.830 --> 00:16:18.509 how big this can be, what your strengths are, 00:16:18.870 --> 00:16:20.769 how you're going to how you're beating the competition, 00:16:21.730 --> 00:16:25.169 how your price points are, etc. So assuming that 00:16:25.169 --> 00:16:29.169 those are in place, I think is a case of never 00:16:29.169 --> 00:16:31.929 give up, but there will be challenging points. 00:16:32.990 --> 00:16:36.610 You can say low points, maybe, but I think that 00:16:36.610 --> 00:16:40.169 would be more of somebody who's maybe got a product 00:16:40.169 --> 00:16:42.929 or service, and they realize that they can't 00:16:42.929 --> 00:16:44.649 evolve quick enough, they can't expand quick 00:16:44.649 --> 00:16:47.210 enough, or they've just simply got something 00:16:47.210 --> 00:16:48.889 that's inferior to what's out there already. 00:16:49.149 --> 00:16:50.990 Just wondering, when you were going through those 00:16:50.990 --> 00:16:52.690 moments, did you have something on the back of 00:16:52.690 --> 00:16:55.370 your mind going, you know, I got this, or I can 00:16:55.370 --> 00:16:57.409 do this? Was there any sentence that you keep 00:16:57.409 --> 00:16:59.429 on repeating to yourself, any mantra if you want 00:16:59.429 --> 00:17:06.039 to call it that way? Sorry, picking up on? No, 00:17:06.319 --> 00:17:08.019 no, like if you picked up on, I don't know, when 00:17:08.019 --> 00:17:09.940 you're reading a book and the book gave you enough 00:17:09.940 --> 00:17:13.940 inspiration or you call... Yeah, I mean, I will 00:17:13.940 --> 00:17:16.640 just say, I mean, I think again, you draw on 00:17:16.640 --> 00:17:19.480 your experience there, really. I think in our 00:17:19.480 --> 00:17:21.720 case, you know, with my particular background, 00:17:21.920 --> 00:17:24.819 you could say for the bit I was responsible for, 00:17:25.480 --> 00:17:29.750 you know, you really have got the... some comfort 00:17:29.750 --> 00:17:31.309 in terms of the experience that you've picked 00:17:31.309 --> 00:17:38.029 up. For example, if things aren't going particularly 00:17:38.029 --> 00:17:42.029 well, then you might revisit, have I understood 00:17:42.029 --> 00:17:45.470 that audience as well as I could have done? Have 00:17:45.470 --> 00:17:52.630 I asked my customers the right questions so that 00:17:52.630 --> 00:17:55.430 if we're not seeing the traction that we expected, 00:17:55.890 --> 00:17:58.809 that we fully understand why that might be? The 00:17:58.809 --> 00:18:01.589 answer question is draw on the experience and 00:18:01.589 --> 00:18:04.849 go back to your go to market kind of work streams 00:18:04.849 --> 00:18:07.690 and the things you should be doing and test it 00:18:07.690 --> 00:18:12.009 and basically speak to your customers. Look at 00:18:12.009 --> 00:18:15.309 what the competition's doing and try and understand 00:18:15.309 --> 00:18:17.230 what the macro environment is as well in the 00:18:17.230 --> 00:18:20.289 different markets you're going into and basically 00:18:20.289 --> 00:18:22.089 come up with the reasons. What are the reasons? 00:18:22.250 --> 00:18:25.250 Analyze it. So I think if you've got that to 00:18:25.250 --> 00:18:29.690 fall back on, your experience and or you know 00:18:29.690 --> 00:18:31.970 knowledge through other people in your in your 00:18:31.970 --> 00:18:34.970 company then you know that gives you a lot of 00:18:34.970 --> 00:18:36.670 strength I think you know rather than feeling 00:18:36.670 --> 00:18:40.150 helpless you're empowered because you understand 00:18:40.150 --> 00:18:42.710 where to look for the problem if you see what 00:18:42.710 --> 00:18:44.970 I mean. You've gone through that journey when 00:18:44.970 --> 00:18:47.509 you now invest in other companies what are the 00:18:47.509 --> 00:18:52.309 key things you look for? If I'm going to invest 00:18:52.309 --> 00:18:55.670 I need to have this this and that. Number one 00:18:55.670 --> 00:18:58.930 people. The number one is the people you're going 00:18:58.930 --> 00:19:01.950 to team up with, right? Have they got what it 00:19:01.950 --> 00:19:05.589 takes? Have they got the right personality? I 00:19:05.589 --> 00:19:07.809 think that's super important. So it's true what 00:19:07.809 --> 00:19:09.869 they say about, you know, any investor is going 00:19:09.869 --> 00:19:12.150 to invest in the people, first and foremost, 00:19:12.210 --> 00:19:15.000 and you really have to believe. In the vision 00:19:15.000 --> 00:19:17.400 that the people you're working with have got 00:19:17.400 --> 00:19:19.880 the other share the same vision as you or you 00:19:19.880 --> 00:19:22.519 have a leader in those people and you buy into 00:19:22.519 --> 00:19:27.019 that vision and this case i bought into the time 00:19:27.019 --> 00:19:29.720 jacob's vision very much very very clear and 00:19:29.720 --> 00:19:31.980 focused on what you want to do i think you've 00:19:31.980 --> 00:19:35.619 got that's very heartening. I'm and you get swept 00:19:35.619 --> 00:19:40.319 up in that excitement i'm number two would be. 00:19:41.019 --> 00:19:44.160 Absolutely the product and the service, you know, 00:19:44.279 --> 00:19:47.680 is it something the market wants now? Have you 00:19:47.680 --> 00:19:49.460 got something that's going to disrupt it and 00:19:49.460 --> 00:19:53.380 does it much better? I mean, you know, is that 00:19:53.380 --> 00:19:57.700 realistic? Is that realistic? The third would 00:19:57.700 --> 00:20:00.759 be the opportunity. So how big could this get? 00:20:01.119 --> 00:20:03.359 You know, what is my assessment by different 00:20:03.359 --> 00:20:06.000 marketplaces? How quickly can I get the traction 00:20:06.000 --> 00:20:11.859 and how big? could this actually become? And 00:20:11.859 --> 00:20:16.599 then the last one for me, in particular, is that 00:20:16.599 --> 00:20:18.559 it's got to be scalable and repeatable as much 00:20:18.559 --> 00:20:21.079 as possible. So I think if I look at the businesses 00:20:21.079 --> 00:20:25.059 I've been involved in, then I'd always be looking 00:20:25.059 --> 00:20:30.640 for an ARR, annual recurring revenue scenario. 00:20:32.240 --> 00:20:34.200 I think there are all sorts of different models, 00:20:34.200 --> 00:20:36.160 but that's extremely attractive with the idea 00:20:36.160 --> 00:20:38.279 of winning a customer and then they Obviously, 00:20:38.279 --> 00:20:41.380 stay your customer and you build on that basis. 00:20:43.640 --> 00:20:46.480 I'm sure there'll be other models coming along, 00:20:46.519 --> 00:20:48.920 but at the moment, I particularly like this model 00:20:48.920 --> 00:20:52.160 because it gives you very clear work streams. 00:20:52.619 --> 00:20:54.599 You've got your team that's growing your customers. 00:20:54.759 --> 00:20:56.960 You've got your account managers and customer 00:20:56.960 --> 00:20:59.599 success people that are maintaining the customers 00:20:59.599 --> 00:21:02.170 that you've already won. I'm and you protect 00:21:02.170 --> 00:21:05.690 your net retained revenue going forward and that 00:21:05.690 --> 00:21:07.349 gives you great multiples if you're thinking 00:21:07.349 --> 00:21:09.970 about exiting the business. So if you wanna get 00:21:09.970 --> 00:21:12.390 you know even in this market you know six to 00:21:12.390 --> 00:21:14.930 nine times your your revenue you're gonna need 00:21:14.930 --> 00:21:17.509 that type of business i think. Combination of 00:21:17.509 --> 00:21:20.849 those things is very attractive how do you think 00:21:20.849 --> 00:21:23.269 the market is doing right. Is a lot of people 00:21:23.269 --> 00:21:24.829 complain saying you know it's horrible to have 00:21:24.829 --> 00:21:26.650 been this bad other say you know it's actually 00:21:26.650 --> 00:21:28.940 okay. and it's actually good that it is the way 00:21:28.940 --> 00:21:31.240 it is because the last time we had this was back 00:21:31.240 --> 00:21:33.279 in financial crisis and that's where Uber came 00:21:33.279 --> 00:21:34.940 along with a bunch of other companies. So it's 00:21:34.940 --> 00:21:36.759 actually a good thing things are the way they 00:21:36.759 --> 00:21:41.759 are. I think my assessment would be it's pretty 00:21:41.759 --> 00:21:43.680 horrible if I'm being honest out there at the 00:21:43.680 --> 00:21:48.079 moment. I don't think the markets are flooded 00:21:48.079 --> 00:21:50.680 with cash. I think the investors are looking 00:21:50.680 --> 00:21:54.319 a little bit more carefully at the businesses 00:21:54.319 --> 00:21:56.859 that they're thinking of investing in. Definitely 00:21:56.859 --> 00:22:00.660 they're much more, they have much higher interest 00:22:00.660 --> 00:22:04.819 in the startup businesses being getting close 00:22:04.819 --> 00:22:08.799 to breakeven or getting their costs under control. 00:22:08.819 --> 00:22:10.279 And that's something that has changed over the 00:22:10.279 --> 00:22:12.400 years. You know, before it was all about, you 00:22:12.400 --> 00:22:14.700 know, let's get the revenue and just, you know, 00:22:14.900 --> 00:22:19.099 just, just invest and build and we'll invest 00:22:19.099 --> 00:22:22.240 in you. But I think now those investors are very 00:22:22.240 --> 00:22:27.569 much looking at your ability to obviously get 00:22:27.569 --> 00:22:30.609 going and then keep your costs under control 00:22:30.609 --> 00:22:34.609 and you know get towards profitability or will 00:22:34.609 --> 00:22:36.329 be heading in that trajectory in a very strong 00:22:36.329 --> 00:22:40.890 way so i think there's a lot more nervous from 00:22:40.890 --> 00:22:44.470 an investor point of view at the moment and you 00:22:44.470 --> 00:22:46.509 know they want to they want to reduce their risk 00:22:46.509 --> 00:22:49.069 that's put pressure on a lot of businesses because 00:22:49.069 --> 00:22:52.769 you know you. Those businesses that traditionally 00:22:52.769 --> 00:22:54.710 have been relying on a lot of investment upfront 00:22:54.710 --> 00:22:58.549 are finding it a little bit harder to get going. 00:22:58.690 --> 00:23:02.029 Not to say it doesn't happen, but I would say 00:23:02.029 --> 00:23:05.769 that there's definitely a mood change amongst 00:23:05.769 --> 00:23:08.490 investors. I think it'll absolutely come back. 00:23:08.630 --> 00:23:11.369 Don't get me wrong, but at the moment, that's 00:23:11.369 --> 00:23:13.410 the situation. I think the other thing is you're 00:23:13.410 --> 00:23:17.420 probably not going to get maybe as bigger exits 00:23:17.420 --> 00:23:20.660 at the moment that you possibly would have done 00:23:20.660 --> 00:23:23.319 a few years ago with the conditions in the market 00:23:23.319 --> 00:23:28.859 at the moment. So it might suit to plough on 00:23:28.859 --> 00:23:32.259 a bit further and build revenues and then sell 00:23:32.259 --> 00:23:35.140 at a later date, but just depends on what business 00:23:35.140 --> 00:23:38.079 you're in. I was just wondering, going back to 00:23:38.079 --> 00:23:41.920 your story, so you've managed to grow that company, 00:23:42.079 --> 00:23:44.019 exit the company, and then what have you done 00:23:44.019 --> 00:23:46.619 next? because I know you're now running two other 00:23:46.619 --> 00:23:49.779 companies. So how did that progression? Well, 00:23:50.220 --> 00:23:52.400 so what typically happens there is that, you 00:23:52.400 --> 00:23:55.079 know, once you get taken over, then I'm in the 00:23:55.079 --> 00:23:58.279 case of my, my, my two partners, who, by the 00:23:58.279 --> 00:24:01.740 way, much bigger shareholders, they they exited 00:24:01.740 --> 00:24:03.460 the business to do something new and exciting. 00:24:04.299 --> 00:24:07.160 Obviously, I was involved in the sales and marketing 00:24:07.160 --> 00:24:10.740 side of it and was a CRO. So they kept me on 00:24:10.740 --> 00:24:14.630 during your own out period and beyond. to look 00:24:14.630 --> 00:24:16.269 after things because you've got those existing 00:24:16.269 --> 00:24:18.390 customers I just talked about. You have to make 00:24:18.390 --> 00:24:20.650 sure you keep the boat steady and that you're 00:24:20.650 --> 00:24:22.650 going to grow them and you're imparting knowledge 00:24:22.650 --> 00:24:26.930 into the business. So in my case, that went on 00:24:26.930 --> 00:24:31.190 for another year or so. And then, you know, now 00:24:31.190 --> 00:24:33.970 I'm still an advisor to that business, but now 00:24:33.970 --> 00:24:39.230 I'm out there back on my consultancy gig, again, 00:24:39.269 --> 00:24:41.150 looking for new opportunities to either invest 00:24:41.150 --> 00:24:47.829 in Or to work with my particular aim is to, which 00:24:47.829 --> 00:24:50.470 I really like is basically imparting the stuff 00:24:50.470 --> 00:24:53.890 I've learned over the last 25 years and sharing 00:24:53.890 --> 00:24:56.109 some of those experiences with new and exciting 00:24:56.109 --> 00:25:00.250 startups and helping them accelerate and grow 00:25:00.250 --> 00:25:03.769 and or get themselves in shape for some sort 00:25:03.769 --> 00:25:08.650 of exit. So I think it's great because I can 00:25:08.650 --> 00:25:11.789 apply all those experiences It's also exciting 00:25:11.789 --> 00:25:15.049 because you're taking a step back from from the 00:25:15.049 --> 00:25:16.650 leadership you've been under that pressure for 00:25:16.650 --> 00:25:18.789 five, six years. Then there's an opportunity 00:25:18.789 --> 00:25:22.170 to start afresh and do some new and exciting 00:25:22.170 --> 00:25:26.710 things. So yeah, so I will expect to, you know, 00:25:26.769 --> 00:25:30.069 I am already obviously working with with some 00:25:30.069 --> 00:25:33.150 other startup companies already. But I'm always 00:25:33.150 --> 00:25:36.569 on the lookout for investment and, you know, 00:25:36.599 --> 00:25:38.519 picking out one or two favorites to go all the 00:25:38.519 --> 00:25:40.599 way. But I mean, when you look at all these opportunities 00:25:40.599 --> 00:25:44.200 that are presented to you, what makes a difference? 00:25:44.460 --> 00:25:47.519 I mean, you mentioned leadership, product, opportunity 00:25:47.519 --> 00:25:52.140 and scalable business. But what really makes 00:25:52.140 --> 00:25:54.519 you go ahead? What's the one thing you say, you 00:25:54.519 --> 00:25:56.180 know what, I've had a feeling that this is going 00:25:56.180 --> 00:25:59.259 to work out? What was that one element? I think 00:25:59.259 --> 00:26:02.420 I always get that feeling, always get that feeling 00:26:02.420 --> 00:26:04.319 from the founder, from the entrepreneur, from 00:26:04.319 --> 00:26:06.839 the guy with the original idea. I think the passion 00:26:06.839 --> 00:26:09.940 levels that you see that and their vision is 00:26:09.940 --> 00:26:15.380 so you know it's so so attractive. What when 00:26:15.380 --> 00:26:17.500 you meet those types of people that you immediately 00:26:17.500 --> 00:26:19.759 want to invest to be part of that story i think 00:26:19.759 --> 00:26:21.819 you know from a lot of people maybe listening 00:26:21.819 --> 00:26:24.220 to this or being to themselves or maybe they 00:26:24.220 --> 00:26:29.279 are one of those people i think that some. You 00:26:29.279 --> 00:26:32.119 can tell straight away the people that will just 00:26:32.119 --> 00:26:37.420 never give up the vision is clear. It's the logic 00:26:37.420 --> 00:26:41.420 is very sound the expertise that they're putting 00:26:41.420 --> 00:26:45.400 around them is also high quality so you know. 00:26:45.559 --> 00:26:48.940 I think it's pretty much a known thing but you 00:26:48.940 --> 00:26:51.799 know entrepreneurs should and the really successful 00:26:51.799 --> 00:26:53.880 ones do you surround themselves with the best 00:26:53.880 --> 00:26:59.549 talent. To succeed and let those people perform 00:26:59.549 --> 00:27:02.069 for them rather than trying to do everything 00:27:02.069 --> 00:27:04.730 themselves. I think that's a very important statement. 00:27:05.349 --> 00:27:08.390 So it's the as I say the enthusiasm, the very 00:27:08.390 --> 00:27:12.690 clear vision and also the recognition of the 00:27:12.690 --> 00:27:15.450 talent pool that they need and the understanding 00:27:15.450 --> 00:27:19.329 that they let those talents do their own thing 00:27:19.329 --> 00:27:22.910 and those talents will then will then find and 00:27:22.910 --> 00:27:26.130 bring on board. other proven and known talents 00:27:26.130 --> 00:27:29.490 into the business and so you then get that whole 00:27:29.490 --> 00:27:36.390 ecosystem of highly talented people hiring more 00:27:36.390 --> 00:27:38.809 talented people and experienced people and the 00:27:38.809 --> 00:27:43.950 organization becomes very successful. So it definitely 00:27:43.950 --> 00:27:46.730 starts with that first person if you like in 00:27:46.730 --> 00:27:49.329 the business and it goes from there. I was just 00:27:49.329 --> 00:27:51.849 wondering, you mentioned finding the right talent. 00:27:52.079 --> 00:27:54.319 are there any tips or advice you can give because 00:27:54.319 --> 00:27:57.079 that's I've heard so many options when it comes 00:27:57.079 --> 00:28:00.500 to hiring people some say hire slow and fire 00:28:00.500 --> 00:28:03.759 fast others say you know actually just go super 00:28:03.759 --> 00:28:07.299 quick at finding people so what's your approach 00:28:07.299 --> 00:28:10.440 on this? Well I think it's a simple one I mean 00:28:10.440 --> 00:28:13.079 obviously when you get to have as many gray hairs 00:28:13.079 --> 00:28:15.359 in your head as I do you know a lot of people 00:28:15.359 --> 00:28:19.339 and people's reputations you know are known so 00:28:19.470 --> 00:28:21.789 It would definitely be first of all use your 00:28:21.789 --> 00:28:24.869 own network people you work with or you've seen 00:28:24.869 --> 00:28:28.890 a witness before. I think this is a good one 00:28:28.890 --> 00:28:30.390 and then the other one will be to go through 00:28:30.390 --> 00:28:33.970 trusted people that you know and ask them and 00:28:33.970 --> 00:28:37.630 then you know you can also obviously. These days 00:28:37.630 --> 00:28:40.109 a lot of tools to find to find very talented 00:28:40.109 --> 00:28:41.950 people if you're gonna do that then you're looking 00:28:41.950 --> 00:28:44.039 in the. you know, you've got an opportunity with 00:28:44.039 --> 00:28:47.319 things like LinkedIn to look at that industry 00:28:47.319 --> 00:28:50.000 across an enormous number of people. And you 00:28:50.000 --> 00:28:53.180 can, you can, you can see from what people have 00:28:53.180 --> 00:28:54.980 been doing, how successful they've been, and 00:28:54.980 --> 00:28:58.319 you can locate that talent. But I think the first, 00:28:58.839 --> 00:29:02.140 the first and foremost would be probably somebody 00:29:02.140 --> 00:29:04.319 you've worked with previously or that is coming 00:29:04.319 --> 00:29:07.039 to you very highly recommended from somebody 00:29:07.039 --> 00:29:11.099 else that that's a safe bet. I always have this 00:29:11.099 --> 00:29:14.299 question, which is, as an investor, how do you 00:29:14.299 --> 00:29:17.839 like being approached? Because, you know, I'm 00:29:17.839 --> 00:29:19.700 sure you get a lot of cold emails saying, hey, 00:29:19.779 --> 00:29:21.920 would you want to give me some money to do something? 00:29:22.400 --> 00:29:24.480 Or, I mean, how does that work? What's the best 00:29:24.480 --> 00:29:27.200 way for you? I didn't I couldn't hear the first 00:29:27.200 --> 00:29:28.839 part of your question. I'm really sorry about 00:29:28.839 --> 00:29:31.259 that. Sorry, I was just wondering, as an investor, 00:29:31.720 --> 00:29:34.839 how do you prefer being approached? What do you 00:29:34.839 --> 00:29:39.869 think works best? I prefer for people to approach 00:29:39.869 --> 00:29:44.609 me. I think just a very, very simple overview 00:29:44.609 --> 00:29:47.710 of what you're trying to do. So what is your 00:29:47.710 --> 00:29:52.650 product or your service? Why is it good? I think 00:29:52.650 --> 00:29:55.210 definitely present something around the opportunity 00:29:55.210 --> 00:29:57.210 size because any investor would obviously want 00:29:57.210 --> 00:29:59.569 to see, you know, is this something that's going 00:29:59.569 --> 00:30:01.910 to be absolutely huge or is this going to be 00:30:01.910 --> 00:30:04.329 something that's going to be very small and short 00:30:04.329 --> 00:30:06.599 lived? so i think you have to really highlight 00:30:06.599 --> 00:30:08.660 that but you know if you're going to put some 00:30:08.660 --> 00:30:10.819 stuff up in front of an investor i think you 00:30:10.819 --> 00:30:13.140 you've got to start your overview with a kind 00:30:13.140 --> 00:30:16.740 of a set of numbers of some sort to show them 00:30:16.740 --> 00:30:18.980 you know what the potential of this opportunity 00:30:18.980 --> 00:30:23.099 is and then you would also have a second if you 00:30:23.099 --> 00:30:25.599 like high level slide which would be your vision 00:30:25.599 --> 00:30:27.740 what is your vision of this business what does 00:30:27.740 --> 00:30:32.160 it look like in x amount of time and what is 00:30:32.160 --> 00:30:35.299 your strategy for achieving that Um, and then 00:30:35.299 --> 00:30:37.259 I think on the execution side of it, I think 00:30:37.259 --> 00:30:39.420 that can come a little bit later, but for an 00:30:39.420 --> 00:30:41.859 initial interest, it would really be, Hey, I've 00:30:41.859 --> 00:30:44.819 got this business. Um, it's going to grow fantastic, 00:30:45.039 --> 00:30:47.700 repeatable revenues. We've got something that's, 00:30:47.700 --> 00:30:50.799 you know, I guess you can say today, for example, 00:30:50.980 --> 00:30:53.460 trendy word might be this AI enabled or something 00:30:53.460 --> 00:30:55.240 like that. So it's, you know, it's relevant to 00:30:55.240 --> 00:30:57.180 what's happening in the marketplace right now. 00:30:57.960 --> 00:31:01.160 Um, and it's, it's, it's solving a need at the 00:31:01.160 --> 00:31:04.779 end of the day. Um, you know, It's very important 00:31:04.779 --> 00:31:08.859 that your your product or service satisfies the 00:31:08.859 --> 00:31:11.720 marketplace and ideally bring something new and 00:31:11.720 --> 00:31:14.779 exciting to it. So yeah, I think that would be 00:31:14.779 --> 00:31:18.279 it. The two businesses you're really part of, 00:31:18.339 --> 00:31:19.700 Capitan and High Books, would you like to tell 00:31:19.700 --> 00:31:24.059 us a bit more about those? Yeah, sure. So for 00:31:24.059 --> 00:31:26.299 High Books, you know, I just mentioned AI, actually, 00:31:26.380 --> 00:31:29.079 funnily enough. So High Books is an accounting, 00:31:29.839 --> 00:31:34.660 online accounting software. And you could say 00:31:34.660 --> 00:31:37.579 boring, you know, you could go on another accounting 00:31:37.579 --> 00:31:40.000 software and understand that. So you've got, 00:31:40.000 --> 00:31:41.500 you know, you've got zero and you've got quick 00:31:41.500 --> 00:31:43.460 books. You've got these other guys out there 00:31:43.460 --> 00:31:46.000 in the marketplace who are being hugely successful. 00:31:46.079 --> 00:31:48.400 And you see zero advertising everywhere on TV 00:31:48.400 --> 00:31:51.740 and everything else. So is there room for another 00:31:51.740 --> 00:31:54.500 one? And the answer is yes, there is. Because 00:31:54.500 --> 00:31:56.839 in the case of high books, what was attractive 00:31:56.839 --> 00:32:00.059 about being involved with that team? Is that 00:32:00.059 --> 00:32:02.759 they do they are leveraging and large language 00:32:02.759 --> 00:32:05.920 models to basically do some stuff that saves 00:32:05.920 --> 00:32:09.160 your average small business user and or account 00:32:09.160 --> 00:32:13.400 and stroke. Bookkeeper about five hours a month 00:32:13.400 --> 00:32:16.920 of loading up things like receipts so it's using 00:32:16.920 --> 00:32:20.119 really good technology to scan receipts load 00:32:20.119 --> 00:32:22.599 them up do the reconciliation with the bank. 00:32:22.779 --> 00:32:25.579 It looks at the receipt, understands what that's 00:32:25.579 --> 00:32:30.940 for. So what was very tedious, I certainly remember 00:32:30.940 --> 00:32:33.559 working for a lot of big companies and doing 00:32:33.559 --> 00:32:36.980 your receipts and your expenses is a very tedious 00:32:36.980 --> 00:32:40.119 process. This was going to solve that problem. 00:32:40.559 --> 00:32:43.039 That was point one. Point two was it's also extremely 00:32:43.039 --> 00:32:47.759 easy to use. And it's ideal for that very small 00:32:47.759 --> 00:32:51.720 business user who Let me tell you, even today, 00:32:52.200 --> 00:32:54.200 many, many businesses who are starting out are 00:32:54.200 --> 00:32:56.680 using Excel spreadsheets to manage all these 00:32:56.680 --> 00:32:59.619 things. And this, I think, is just a great tool 00:32:59.619 --> 00:33:03.119 that kills that from the off. And I see that 00:33:03.119 --> 00:33:06.500 as being very exciting. So the other thing is 00:33:06.500 --> 00:33:09.539 there's just an enormous number of new businesses 00:33:09.539 --> 00:33:12.039 that are forming every single year, and everybody 00:33:12.039 --> 00:33:16.259 needs these tools. It also has potential for 00:33:16.259 --> 00:33:19.819 lots of other marketplaces, and because of the 00:33:19.819 --> 00:33:22.299 founders' background and connections, we've got 00:33:22.299 --> 00:33:24.579 opportunities in Saudi Arabia and Dubai and everywhere 00:33:24.579 --> 00:33:28.460 else, and these places are also changing their 00:33:28.460 --> 00:33:32.440 tax situation, and this solves all those issues 00:33:32.440 --> 00:33:36.640 for them. So basically, huge potential, leveraging 00:33:36.640 --> 00:33:41.339 the brand new technology, solving some of the 00:33:41.680 --> 00:33:43.779 the stuff that small businesses hate, which is 00:33:43.779 --> 00:33:45.859 complexity, and, you know, having to have a lot 00:33:45.859 --> 00:33:49.160 of training and stuff. So it fits, it fits a 00:33:49.160 --> 00:33:52.339 gap in the marketplace very nicely. And then 00:33:52.339 --> 00:33:55.299 the other business. Yep, so and then capital, 00:33:55.480 --> 00:34:00.099 you mentioned better, which is better .com, please, 00:34:00.200 --> 00:34:03.700 please take a look at that. This is a company 00:34:03.700 --> 00:34:08.239 that is basically looking to change the way large 00:34:08.239 --> 00:34:11.039 businesses are doing their software development. 00:34:11.769 --> 00:34:16.730 Again that is also leveraging AI and automation 00:34:16.730 --> 00:34:21.110 to basically take care of a lot of the mundane 00:34:21.110 --> 00:34:24.329 code in software development that's point one 00:34:24.329 --> 00:34:27.570 point two is it brings very very good visibility 00:34:27.570 --> 00:34:29.809 for development teams that are dispersed across 00:34:29.809 --> 00:34:32.929 the world. I'm to see what they see what they've 00:34:32.929 --> 00:34:36.090 been developing they're able to basically leverage 00:34:36.090 --> 00:34:41.150 if you like blocks of code. that have been written 00:34:41.150 --> 00:34:44.030 and basically leverage that and join that to 00:34:44.030 --> 00:34:47.010 other bits of code they're writing. But it's 00:34:47.010 --> 00:34:50.570 very visual, very easy to plug and play with 00:34:50.570 --> 00:34:53.210 these different blocks, saves a whole bunch of 00:34:53.210 --> 00:34:55.489 time. And basically for businesses, that means 00:34:55.489 --> 00:34:58.630 they can spend time innovating rather than doing 00:34:58.630 --> 00:35:01.829 mundane code that every single bit of functionality 00:35:01.829 --> 00:35:07.550 needs. So that one's a much more long term thing, 00:35:07.550 --> 00:35:11.530 or at least medium term. It will get traction 00:35:11.530 --> 00:35:14.769 and you know, but it will take time. So we're 00:35:14.769 --> 00:35:16.309 on that journey. Chris, if people want to reach 00:35:16.309 --> 00:35:19.090 out to you, how can you do so? If people want 00:35:19.090 --> 00:35:21.730 to reach out to me, probably the best way to 00:35:21.730 --> 00:35:24.590 do that is to, you can get me on LinkedIn, Chris 00:35:24.590 --> 00:35:27.309 Sayer. I think I've come up, I think I've come 00:35:27.309 --> 00:35:29.730 up quite high on the rankings on that. But if 00:35:29.730 --> 00:35:32.329 you look up Chris Sayer and my consultancy is 00:35:32.329 --> 00:35:36.900 called Marv42, M -A -R -V -4 -2. If you're wondering 00:35:36.900 --> 00:35:39.260 where I got the name from, it's from the Hitchhiker's 00:35:39.260 --> 00:35:41.300 Guide to the Galaxy. The robot was called Marv 00:35:41.300 --> 00:35:44.320 and the answer to the universe is 42. So anyway, 00:35:44.320 --> 00:35:46.280 if you look me up there, you will see my background 00:35:46.280 --> 00:35:49.099 and you can connect to me that way. Chris, thank 00:35:49.099 --> 00:35:51.019 you so much for that. I really appreciate it. 00:35:51.119 --> 00:35:52.800 No problem at all. Great to speak to you today. 00:35:54.940 --> 00:35:57.900 This podcast is also sponsored by startupnetworks 00:35:57.900 --> 00:36:01.480 .co .uk. Startup Networks, it's an online forum 00:36:01.480 --> 00:36:03.460 where you can find all the resources you need 00:36:03.460 --> 00:36:06.010 to run your startup. From grants to investors 00:36:06.010 --> 00:36:08.190 to tips and tricks on how to be successful in 00:36:08.190 --> 00:36:11.230 your startup. This podcast is sponsored by OpenExperts 00:36:11.230 --> 00:36:14.269 .com. OpenExperts is the place to go if you're 00:36:14.269 --> 00:36:16.090 looking to talk with top experts from around 00:36:16.090 --> 00:36:19.550 the world. That is Open -Experts .com.