Welcome to the Innovation Conversation, a podcast
about innovators, both in business and real life.
Hosted by myself, Ricardo Rescual and Harry McCona.
This podcast is sponsored by OpenExperts .com.
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That is Open -Experts .com. This podcast is also
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Networks, it's an online forum where you can
find all the resources you need to learn your
startup. from grants to investors to tips and
tricks on how to be successful when you start.
Today with Hattie Wheelies, co -founder of E3
Race, host of a podcast called Not My First Guest,
and also a founder of Guessworks. Hi, and welcome
to another episode of the Innovation Conversation.
Today we are joined by Hattie Wheelies. Hattie,
welcome. Thank you so much for having me and
thank you everyone who's listening. I hope your
day is going well wherever you are in it. No,
it's a great intro. I don't think we ever had
anyone so nice. Hedy, would you like to introduce
yourself to the audience and kind of tell them
a little bit more about yourself? Sure. So as
my name implies, and this is going to be pun
heavy, but that's a good instruction to who I
am as a person. I wear three different hats,
so I have all three different companies. So I'm
the founder of a company called Guessbooks. We
go into schools, universities, accelerator programs,
and a few brave corporates, and we teach early
stage innovation skills. So everything from how
to come up with new ideas, how to test them in
an early stage with real customers, how to think
about whether you should go and get funding,
how to fundraise, how to pitch. All the common
stuff you'd find on an early stage accelerator,
we teach it. And that's built on my background.
So I was head of training and innovation consultancy.
I've spent the last eight years designing and
running workshops. I've got pretty good, I hope,
at that turning frameworks and tools into something
that isn't just theory, something you can really
apply to your startup straight away. And then
we bring in incredible founders who have lived
experience, who have different skill sets applying
these frameworks and we get them to teach as
well. So they might not know how to translate
those skills, those stories into what students
need or founders need to be able to practice
it. But we help them with that. So that's the
first business, Guessworks. The second business,
if we raise, is all about trying to work with
founders directly. So we. aim to help founders
who don't have an uncle who works in VC, who
don't have parents who can put the first thousands
of capital into their business, who maybe don't
feel like they know anyone in entrepreneurship
and it's feeling super lonely. And we try and
help them in a few different ways. So the first
big question, and the reason we're called If
We Raise, is we try and help them work out should
they be thinking about fundraising at all for
their business. Lots of the founders that come
to us are thinking, I'm about to start fundraising,
how do I do it? And we ask first, should you
do it? Because it's been so fed to us, I think,
as this idea that that's how you start a startup,
right? You have an idea, you go get funding,
you grow, you succeed. So we try and challenge
that. If funding is the right path, we want to
help those founders, particularly unrepresented
founders. So female founders, founders of color,
disabled founders, LGBTQ plus IA founders. and
founders from lower socioeconomic backgrounds
who we know are less likely to be backed by investors.
We try and help give them kind of warm introductions
into the investment space. So to meet angel investors,
we have an incredible group of angels who support
us. And we're not introducing in the sense that
they'll then necessarily make an investment,
but our hope is that they're kind of conduits
into the space. So you have those warm instructions,
which we know matters so much to fundraising.
And then on the other side, if you work out,
you don't want to fundraise, which is a great
path to how do we help you grow your business
through what we call bootstrapping, which is
a kind of common term in startup world for growing
a business without external investment. And so
how do you do that and feel less alone in the
process? So that's if we raise it's a community
and courses and that angel group that sits behind
us. And then. We have a third company that I'm
co -founder of with different co -founders and
that is called Angel Syndicate. And we're all
about trying to create more groups of angels.
So if I'm using the word angel investor and you
have no idea what that means, they're individuals
investing their own money. So these are people
who might be exed founders. They might have joined
a startup and it's scaled and grown and they've
got a nice chunk of cash when that startup's
exited. Or they might just be experienced professionals
with something to bring more than just investment.
And those investors often form what are called
angel syndicates, which are just groups of investors
who share a theme they want to invest on that
might be based on the founders. So like investing
in female founders, it might be based on the
space like climate investments. And so our goal
is to make it easier to do that. unfund side
of running an angel syndicate. So making sure
you're compliant, managing your deal flow, all
of that fun stuff. And also make it easier for
founders to get funded faster, which is a big
goal for me in general. If you're going to go
off to funding, how can we make that a better
process for you? Okay. So it's, you were not
kidding when you said you do put on a lot of
hats. I mean, that's quite impressive. And there's
a podcast just for fun because I needed a hobby.
Okay. So first question that pops into my mind
is, How do you manage all this? Because this
is a lot of stuff happening. Yeah, good question.
So have a wonderful EA is probably the most honest
answer, which was a recent hire. So I joined
the last startup, Angel Syndicate, at the end
of last year. I think that was probably the straw
that broke the camel's back to realizing I needed
more help than I was. Painful and so I've got
any a she's wonderful. She is a huge support
to making sure she sends me the sweetest emails
that just say nudge when I'm kind of leaving
things on the back burner too long. She helps
me with a ton of stuff. So that genuinely and
I used to think it feels like a really, um, almost
feels like a humble brag. Like, Oh, I have an
executive assistant. Like it just, I actually
really resist it for a long time. I think because
it felt like. thinking too much of myself like
it kind of felt like I was picking myself up
to do it, which was a weird thing to think, but
maybe resonates with some listeners. So if you
feel like that, I feel you. And I started speaking
to founders and a few founders who are really
rated who also quite early in their journeys,
you know, all three of the businesses are early
and they're still very much in hustle phase and
bootstrapping. And so we don't have huge money
to spend on hires. But I was speaking to these
other founders who'd made the leap and they were
telling me. about what it had given them, like
freeing up their time. And I had this, I guess,
like mindset shift at the end of last year, which
was A, realizing I was actually really burning
out. And I think I did slightly burn out at the
beginning of this year for a number of reasons.
But I think making the mindset shift to, hey,
I'm not just going to invest in the company,
but I'm going to invest in myself and I'm going
to back myself that if I bring on someone and
EA is quite helpful because it's not a permanent
hire. For me, it's like a runs as a virtual assistant
so I can, you know, pay for a number of hours
a month and I've got like a month's notice if
it's all going really wrong and I need to get
out of it. And so I saw it as kind of what I
need to invest in myself and freeing up my time.
And I back that if I do that, I can sell more.
I can be more creative. I can do the hard stuff
that my brain needs more time that I'm giving
at the moment to think around. But that said
as well, I'm not sure I've nailed it and I certainly
feel like I'm dropping balls all the time and
it's a work in progress. I'm just going to ask
you about something related to that, which is
what do you think is the common denominator in
a successful founder? Like when it comes to mindset,
like you meet a lot of people that are, you know,
bound to be very successful and they're going
to be very successful. So what do you think it's
a common denominator in their, you know, ways
of thinking? Because we were just talking about
how relevant it was to you to actually get an
executive assistant to help you manage your time
better, right? And they help you manage all the
many things you do. So what's that one thing
you know for a fact that everyone needs to have
if they want to be successful as a startup founder?
So this is going to be a bit contradictory. But
I think for me, it's a gross mindset. So the
idea, and that comes in a few different ways.
So one is the idea that if I don't know how to
do something, I can probably teach myself. And
I interviewed an incredible founder on the podcast
recently, Simi Lindgren, who literally has built
an AI platform. She didn't know how to code.
She didn't know how to do AI. So she was like,
well, I can just teach myself that. And that's
an insane mindset to have, right? And I think
I have it. to a lesser degree, but this idea
of, okay, I don't know how to do that. That'll
be fun to work out, or I'm not good at that yet.
And I think I'm not expecting to become brilliant
at everything, but I kind of have this idea that
I can learn a lot along the way. And if I can't
do something, it doesn't mean I won't ever be
able to do it. And I think that's really important
for founders because in the early days, you are
going to have to wear so many hats, and those
hats might not come naturally to you. They might
not be what you enjoy, right? There's lots of
things you have to do in the early days that
are not fun or glamorous. And I think going through
that process of working out how do you do, I
don't know, VAT, how do you do all the stuff
when you can't afford to outsource it is a really
good learning to go through. And then you have
to kind of transition to working out what that
growth mindset should be applied to. So, Just
because I can learn something doesn't mean I
should, doesn't mean that's a good use of my
time. And there comes a point where actually
you're growing and selling enough that you have
a bit of money to play with, maybe to bring someone
in. And so it's then working out, okay, well,
where should I direct that in order to relieve
myself to grow into the next thing? So just because
I can grow in everything doesn't mean I should,
I think is a big part of it. Wondering something
else, obviously you have three businesses all
running at the same time. How do you, how do
you say no to things? Right? When do you say
no to things? Like, what is that thing that you
realize, actually, it's not just a time constraint
is actually I need to do to say no to these type
of things, because they'll take too much of my
energy, or it's not, you know, it's not the right
direction for me. So how do you manage all that?
I feel like the better question is, do I say
no to things? And the answer is no, just to be
really matter about it. No, I'm joking. So I
do say no to things. I have a kind of framework
that I built with a coach that I use sometimes
and should use all the time, but use sometimes.
And it's a kind of waiting of an opportunity
needs to deliver one of a few things. I've got
my emojis on for anyone watching the video. It's
going to do some fun reactions as we go. I had
no idea we can do emojis here. Oh, let's not
get started on that. If anyone hasn't downloaded
the iOS reactions, they're very fun. Have a watch.
But I think the things that are really important
are, for me at least, it has to fit in a number
of categories. One, I'm doing this for the impact.
So if we raise, it's not making me a personal
salary. It is really about the impact we're delivering.
Down the line, I hope to take a personal salary
from it because I want it to be sustainable.
And I'm quite motivated by impacts of if I, and
I often work for accelerators where they're not
paying incredibly well, but I love the mission
that they're on. I share the mission. So the
impact thing is a big reason. I will say yes
or no, if it aligns with what I'm trying to achieve
in the ecosystem, which is making it easier for
anyone to access, particularly those who've historically
been blocked from the ecosystem, whether that's
through funding, whether that's through being
made to feel like they don't deserve to be in
the room because no one else looks like them
or has the same background or the same accent.
So if it aligns with my personal mission of what
I want to achieve, I'll do it. It's pretty straightforward.
If it makes enough money to pay for me to keep
doing what I'm doing. So I'm, you know, bootstrapping
three businesses. I need to keep paying my mortgage.
That is a pressure, right? And I hadn't had a
big personal exit before this. That means I'm
sitting on a stack of money that I've got huge
savings to burn. I'm sure some people can relate
to this. I guess the reason I always put that
second is it can't conflict with values, right?
I'm not going to go and take a huge amount of
money to work with an accelerator that is working
against my principles or a corporate that's against
my principles. So I guess that's number two is
does it just makes sense? Nice check. Three is,
am I going to really enjoy it? And that might
come in a number of ways. Like, I just really
enjoy working with these people. They're amazing.
I want to spend more time with them. I feel like
I'm learning from them is a massive one for me.
And do I feel like I'm learning something I want
to learn because I really get energized by getting
better at that skill. So for me, for instance,
the podcast, not my first guess, that delivers
a few things. It doesn't deliver money. If you're
starting a podcast because you want to make money.
I wouldn't, but for me, it allows me to be around
founders who inspire me and who I learn from
and who I think make me better at every other
job I do. I think they make me better at giving
advice. And if we raise, I think they open up
a network who will come and support our, if we
raise founders, they deliver a ton of examples
for when I'm teaching this and guess works. And
I'm, I really enjoy. The art of interviewing
and it's something I want to get better at so
that kind of ticks all of those boxes and every
so often Podcasts cost quite a lot of money to
run every so often. I'm like should I just cut
this? I'm having to sell way more to pay for
it But I keep going back to know because it ticks
those boxes So I kind of try and have these criteria
and it needs to hit at least one of them very
strongly and ideally it needs to hit two For
me to say yes to it So and the people thing comes
in big time for me So Angel Syndicate, I joined
A, because it's mission aligned, but B, I really
rate the people I'm co -founding with and I love
learning from them and I feel like I come off
every call with a better understanding of parts
of the ecosystem that I don't have the same background
or experience in. And how did you get started
in all this? Because you didn't just wake up
one day and launch three businesses. So how did
that happen? What was the journey like? So the
very short slightly silly version is I kicked
a man out of a bar and he ended up hiring me
onto his startup. And I ended up working in startups
ever since. So I was at uni, I'm actually wearing
my college bar jumper today. But I was a volunteered,
actually didn't just volunteer, I literally,
it was like an elected position. I ran. to be
bar manager of this college. Hilariously, you
had to do these things called hustings. We had
to kind of stand up and defend why you were going
to be the best bar manager. And hilariously,
I actually had appendicitis at the time. And
I was running with my wonderful housemate. It's
quite funny. He was brilliant. He was our treasurer.
And he kind of got up and said, Hattie couldn't
be here today. She's at home. And one of my friends
very graciously stood up and went, Well, maybe
tell them why she's at home. She's not just not
turning up. Um, so, but anyway, luckily he then
did explain, I really wanted to be that, but
was lying in bed, unable to move without doubling
up in pain. And so anyway, we got into the bar
and one day we were running stock take on a Sunday,
a guy walks in. I've now had two people say I
was quite grumpy. I used to say I thought I was
very friendly, but now both my bar treasurer
and the man who walked in said I was very grumpy
and unreceptive. Mainly because I wanted to go
home. It was a Sunday. I didn't want to be there.
But he was running this startup. They were doing
mobile gifting. So let's say I'm running late
for your birthday party. I can send you a pint
and you can redeem it at the bar. And they wanted
us to be a venue. Really quickly, the unit economics
didn't work. Like they were charging five quid
a pint. We were like getting massive resistance
at the idea of raising prices from one pound
20 for a pint. That was like, I think I'd have
been like, people would have come for me. Um,
and so it didn't work. We've kind of said, sorry,
but recommended some other venues. And he gave
us this little card that had this like free pint
on it, which is very kind of him. But we obviously
went to a venue so it was a free pint for another
bar, but still very thoughtful. And I went away
and later in the week, I was doing a kind of
supervision. So I'd come back and like check
everything was going okay. And I think I was
like lifting down like a box of like very heavy
vodka. And I like looked into the bar and saw
him at the bar. And I was like, oh, that's nice.
He's there. And then I realized he was handing
out these vouchers. So I like put down this very
heavy box very quickly. and like grabbed the
next guy who came past me out of the bar and
was like, Hey, what's that? Show it to me. And
he showed it to me. And it was this free pint.
And I was like really like frustrated me because
we were like struggling. Like the bar was like
people were drinking less at uni at that time,
which was great for their grades, but not great
for us. And we were like the, they hadn't inflated
prices in like six years. I mean, I think we
were the last year they didn't inflate it. And
so I was like, we can't afford for you to be
giving away their students. Like if they get
a free pint, they'll drink it somewhere else.
And like, we actually need that pint. Every pint
counts. And so I kind of asked him to leave and
said, look, you can do that. I can't stop you
doing this anywhere else in the college. You
can literally do it outside the bar. I can't
stop you, but like, can you at least have the
respect not to do it while sat at my bar? Like
that's just rude. And he. had my email from the
first encounter, sent me a very apologetic email
saying he didn't really realize that was going
to be an issue in his time in the bar, which
I could believe, like they just had so much custom
that he just didn't think it was a problem. And
could he make it up to me? Why didn't we run
an event where he would pay for all of the drinks
for the evening if people downloaded the app?
So the idea was like, I'll give out the free
drinks, but like they're at your bar. And he
came and ran it. We, I feel like I'm kind of
admitting that this should have been someone
else's job, but we had a couple of social media
pages that someone else had set up. I hadn't
set them up. And I had my laptop behind the bar
and I was like, just throughout the evening writing
like, hey, come to the bar, free drinks. Like
the most basic social media you've ever seen.
And I was marketing to students, it's not a hard
sell, free drinks. And the founder. And his co
-founder with that and they were like, Oh, we've
just fired our social media team. Do you want
the job? They were a few pints in at this point.
And I was like a really poor student. And I think
like, I still remember they were like, Oh, we
were paying like 600 pounds a month. And I was
like, Oh my God, that's so much money. They never
paid me that much, but I ended up like hounding
them for a month after this event. I still remember
them kind of like walking out the bar arm in
arm. And I was like, so about that job, you know,
calling after them. And I just hounded them for
like a month straight being like, so how's that
job looking? So we love that job. So how's the
socials? And I still remember very vividly where
I was on Oxford High Street when they like emailed
and I was like, and they were like, yeah, okay,
let's do it. It paid me 80 pounds a week, which
was, you know, still as a student, amazing. And
I remember being like, oh, I don't really know
what Twitter is and Instagram is this kind of
new thing, like maybe I should learn that. And
what have I got myself in for? And it was really
fun. I learned a load. I gave out a lot of free
brownies, free cocktails to friends. I was quite
an epitistic social media manager. Whenever I
needed likes on a post, I'd kind of go around
my housemates being like, who wants a free brownie
if you like my post? But did kind of well enough
that while the company failed, the investors
and the founder really liked what I'd done. And
so they kind of shipped me around their friends
and their investments and said, hey, go and help
them. And so I kind of started working with different
startups and it was always just like the founders
and me. And so I got this like insane access
to learn from them. And also the amount of autonomy
to kind of have an idea and test it with real
customers that afternoon. I was like 19, I was
so addictive. And I think that that is the thing
that got me totally hooked on the startup world.
And when I eventually left uni at that point,
I'd worked with I think five different startups,
everything from B2B, SAS, to kind of B2B2C. And
one of the last companies I worked with was for
that original founder. He'd gone and joined an
entrepreneurship education company. So they were
They wrote the book called The Mum Test, which
is still one of the most favorite books of most
founders I interview, and one of my favorite
things still to this day to teach. And they were
teaching startup skills in like ecosystems like
Estonia, in universities. And so I kind of worked
for them for a while, creating kind of content,
doing all sorts. And then I kind of had this
idea for a startup, which was terrible. The idea
was so bad. I got the bug, but I had this like
terrible idea, which was like, I was going to
charge charities to advertise for what they really
wanted from volunteers who would be like young
people who like me had time, but nothing to give
in terms of like money. And yeah, it's kind of,
it's actually a terrible idea in terms of monetization,
loads of flaws. But so I had this idea. And I
I actually went back to this founder who I'd
kicked out the bar. We're still friends to this
day. I've worked in four startups with him. Is
that true? Yeah, four. I said, I feel like I've
learned a ton from you. I feel like I've learned
a ton from the startups I worked in, but I also
feel like there's a ton of mistakes I'm going
to make if I just go and do this. You teach it.
I'm broke. Can I come on a course and I'll write
some content for you or do something for you
on marketing in risk, you know, as a favor. And
he agreed on the proviso that I helped a bit
at the workshop that I let him buy me lunch and
that he could pitch me a job. And I was like,
well, I'm really happy to press record on a camcorder.
I love lunch and I like jobs. And the job, the
job he pitched me the standing Joke is I've had
to set up guess works because the job he pitched
me was basically guess works. Um, so teaching,
um, or like educating students at universities
on entrepreneurship and ecosystems. And I remember
the lunch. He was like, you're clearly so motivated
by impact. I think you're really going to enjoy
that. You're going to get so much from it. And
we also do stuff with corporates. I didn't think
you're going to be that excited by that. And
I was like, yeah, no, like it's cool, but. I'm
not sure it's going to fulfill the impact side.
Obviously, I spent the next six years in corporate
innovation, so I joined the company. Never worked
for the university while I was there, but I really
enjoyed it from an intellectual perspective.
I learned a ton. I got to be very industry agnostic,
so I saw how startups worked in totally different
sectors, from banking to mining. Learned a lot
through to kind of consumer goods. And it was
intellectually amazing. The company was incredible
at investing in me. So I think after a couple
of years, I had been running these accelerator
programs for startups. And again, all this training
had been happening and I've been sitting avidly
in every session. And that was just a part of
me that And actually it wasn't just a part of
me. One of our startups, because I would spend
my time running programs, I'd spend so much of
my time with them. And so they'd come out of
these sessions and they'd start applying the
skills and they'd run it past me and I'd end
up kind of quietly coaching them, which I wasn't
really supposed to be doing. And one of them
kind of turned around to me one day and he was
like, why are you doing this program management
thing? You shouldn't be doing it. It's not what
you want to do. You should be doing, why aren't
you running the workshops? You should be running
the workshops. And so I pitched to that original
fund. I said, I have three hypotheses. Hypothesis
number one is that if you invest in me as a workshop
facilitator, I can deliver huge value to this
company. I think I'll be able to be a really
good, like low cost way of delivering workshops.
But I also think. the clients will be really
happy. So like hypothesis number two is, I think
I'll be good at it. And hypothesis number three
is, I think I will love it. I think I'll get
loads of energy from it. And those are hypotheses.
I framed those hypotheses, right? We taught people
to think in assumptions. I was like, could be
wrong, could hate this. You could spend loads
of money training me and I'm rubbish or I don't
enjoy it and I want to change my roles. But luckily
I didn't and they did invest a huge amount in
training me. I had One of the most incredible
coaches, he was actually my first ever podcast
guest, a guy called Devin Hunt, who'd been through
Y Combinator with kind of the PayPal, not PayPal,
sorry, the Dropbox cohort. And really, yeah,
just remarkable. I learned so much from him.
They invested in pitch training for me, all sorts.
Yeah. So that was my way into training. And then
I became kind of head of training, started designing
accelerator programs. So they invested and backed
me. ridiculous amount and at an age where I mean
I definitely felt like for a long time I kind
of had to pretend to clients I was a lot older
than I was. There was one accelerator in particular
they all became obsessed with how old I was and
they would like try and guess and try and catch
me out and I'm just like not... Were you a bit
younger at the time? Yeah I was um I mean I don't
know how old they were guessing like in their
30s and I was like I'm... I'm definitely like
25, thanks. And they were like, but you look
super young, but what you're doing means you
must be in your 30s. And I was like, okay, I'm
glad you didn't say I look old because no one
wants to be looking in their 30s at 25. Exactly.
But yeah, and I, anyway, I loved it. I really,
really enjoyed it. I did it for quite a long
time. I then kind of decided what we were doing
needed to be made digital, so I kind of pitched.
I wanted to do a digital learning product to
take everything we were running in person and
make it scalable. So that was really fun. I sold
it to a client who that sale paid for the development
of the first version. I got to go and kind of
do it and it was great fun. I was suddenly writing
scripts and directing and recording the stuff
and creating these whole courses and it was I
really enjoyed it. But I kind of got offered
the chance to stay and run that as a business
unit. And I thought I was going to take it. I
really did. I was kind of told you on the path
to partner, you're an associate partner will
kind of build you up there. But increasingly,
I think I realized the bits that I'd have to
give up to become that role. I didn't want to
give up because I love working directly with
founders and startups. And increasingly, if I
was like trying to take this more senior role
in that it made sense for me to step further
and further back and run teams and be much less
connected with it. And that was the right strategy
for the company, but it wasn't right for me personally.
And so I ended up leaving. but to join a spin
out of the company that started a venture studio.
So we would, my role in that company was to kind
of come up with new ideas, test them at an early
stage. Do I think this is investable? Can I make
an investment case for it that passes? We had
our own investment committee and then we would
partner with a corporate and they would invest
as well and they would lend not just money, but
kind of unfair advantages to the ventures. And
so that was really fun, like intellectually.
Crazy, I mean like kind of mad concept that every
eight weeks you go into a new industry and you
try and come up with a billion dollar idea within
it, which is really fun, quite high stress. And
so I ended up, and also like the ideas you then
had to hand them over. And we had this concept
that we would only put a founder onto the idea
who'd raise the equivalent of series A funding.
And that hadn't been my path. And so I was like,
well, I can't really be a founder of one of these
ventures in the model that we've sold to our
investors and to corporates. So I think I need
to leave. And so I left because I just wanted
the space to kind of spend more time on things,
come up with my own ideas. And like, if it was
something that I felt like I loved and was super
passionate about, I didn't have to hand over
necessarily. So that took me to the three companies.
That's how I got to Guessworks. In this journey
that you've been on, what was the worst that
you had? The day you said, you know what, screw
this, I'm going to go and work for McDonald's.
Not that there's anything wrong working for McDonald's,
but I'm going to get a proper job in a very nice
civil company. I work from nine to five. I don't
need to worry about anything else. And how did
you get back from that moment? Like last Friday?
Like the truth is I kind of feel like I have
loads of those moments. Um, and they never last
long and they're never as deep as I'm not going
to do this, but there are real, there are real
points when I really like, I worry that I've
messed it all up or, and like often it's things
like. You know, we were talking before this about
like how quickly podcast costs add up and this
year we're like really investing in it and it's
not a money generating thing for us. I'd like
it at some point to wash their face, but it's
not. And so. This year we've just taken on a
load of extra overhead basically and I'm also
trying to transition guess works from being me
running 99 % of the workshops to I run the ones
I want to run because I will always want to run
some workshops as we learned from my previous
quitting. Where I don't want to run a workshop
or I don't have capacity like how do we grow
and I'm not the blocker So we're increasingly
bringing in these incredible entrepreneurs I
mentioned to come and run the sessions but that
suddenly means like our margins take and you
know if I'm running the session like It's anything
that's profits profit and suddenly we're bringing
in these trainers. So I've got to triple sales
this year in order to be more profitable than
last year because we've got more overheads and
more and like our margins have taken hit because
the business models evolved and that's really
exciting but it's really scary and that point
of you know me getting an EA and me getting this
other support and that feeling like I've got
to back myself there is this part of me that's
like what if I'm there's still the sense and
I'd like teach founders to get through this but
I still hit it and I didn't stay in it for very
long. I still hit it of what if I invest all
this and I still fail. What do you do in those
moments? Like who do you go and ask for help?
So I'm really lucky in the sense that I had like
one of those moments literally I wasn't joking
about last Friday, I had one of those moments
and I have a few different people who help in
very different ways. So I was having one of those
moments over the weekend, my boyfriend walked
in. looked at my face and was like, what's up?
You look anxious. And we talked it through and
he was brilliant. I mean, his immediate response
was like, I'm not worried. Why are you worried
about that? Like, you're going to, like, abscess
that? Like, there's no way. That's not worrying,
but not in a dismissive way. And you're like,
you've got this way. So I have this cheerleader
and this wonderful person who looks after me
and checks in and does a load of the emotional.
support that I really need. I also have incredible
co -founders on two of the three businesses and
they don't just like help on the two business,
the business that they're involved in, right?
So Tim, for instance, on If We Raise, he has
exited a couple of agency businesses. So he's
always there when I have questions or just like
feeling stressed about trying to transition guest
works to a different model. I can go and ask
him his advice on that. And yeah, and then I
have this incredible network of founder friends
who just get it. And I think sometimes that's,
we've got to be careful. We've got to be better
as a group. I think of not just like we'll all
get together and we're all slightly stressed.
And there's an element of like, it just becomes
founder therapy every time we're trying to meet
for drinks and catch up on life. But I find that
really, really useful. And I think having those
spaces, particularly as someone who tries to
create that space for other people. It feels
a little bit like therapists having therapists.
Like I need a space where I can be, I don't have
to be the expert, where I don't have to have,
and I never pretend I have all the answers, but
where at least I don't have to worry that is
someone thinking that I'm incapable because I
don't have the answer on this, because that sometimes
does worry me. And so having like very safe spaces
where I feel like. i can just be super vulnerable
and say i feel like i'm messing this up or like
i feel like i've made a really rookie mistake
that i teach other founders not to make and i
fall into it and i'll use those as teaching examples
later and i never worry about sharing them in
the long term but in the short term when i'm
going through it i need someone who i can just
be really real with you know you mentioned all
these businesses and your relationship with your
co -founders how do you manage all that because
I'm sure that's not, it's not just the managing
of the businesses, but it's also managing of
the relationship with co -founders because they
all have different ideas. They all want to take
charge of the business that they're running simultaneously
with you. So how do you manage all those relationships
and the emotions that come with it? I think I've
had a really easy run of this. So Tim is my co
-founder for the longest time. So he is genuinely
So there's a standing joke, which is that when
my boyfriend started his company, I tried to
have a really helpful conversation with him about,
you know, why Tim was the perfect match for me
and like how that would be helpful to him to
think about finding a co -founder. And he kind
of interrupted me and said like, sorry, but Tim
is just the perfect co -founder for anyone. Like
he's just that. And I've spoken to people who
know Tim since and they're like, yeah, a hundred
percent. So he's a trained coach. He's gone through
therapy training as well. And it just means that
he's incredibly self -aware and incredibly, his
communication is outstanding. He's also really
fun to work with. He's funny. I come out of every
conversation energized and in some ways because
maybe because we're not. All in together like
actually when we do work together we get to really
enjoy it because it's not too close all the time
I think and I think he's really good. You know
I get there the guilt sometimes of you know I'm
not spending my time on this the need is he but
you know sometimes life will come up and I had
some. you know, personal stuff come up in January
that I very much like felt I wanted to give the
time to. And that was a choice. Like I didn't,
you know, I didn't have to, but I really, really
wanted to. And it was, I was very aware that
it was to support someone else who it wasn't,
it wasn't directly affecting me. I didn't, I
didn't have to be there in a way that like often
you would have to. Be involved. You can't walk
away from bad things. And I kind of ended up
saying this to Tim. I was like, well, this isn't
happening directly to me. I'm taking huge amounts
of time off for this. I feel really guilty. And
he sent me back a message saying, this is, but
this isn't, this why we've chosen to be founders.
Like, and we've chosen to found in this way because
we want to be able to do life. And this is an
important part of doing life. This is like the
ability to be there for the people you love when
you want to be there for them. Like that's one
reason to not work in a big corporate, right?
And he also simultaneously said, my second, like
he said, I promise you, I will take responsibility
that if I start to feel like you're taking the
piss, I will tell you. So the responsibility
is on me, not you. You don't have to worry about
that. You don't have to second guess that I will
just communicate if I feel like we're getting
there. And so it kind of took this weight off
me of, I still, you know, worried about it a
bit, but In that time when I was really trying
to kind of give all my energy to someone else,
him taking that weight off me was just, I can't
even begin to say how grateful I am to him for
it. And that's who he is as a co -founder. And
then, you know, he'll also challenge me and,
you know, big me up and make me feel great about
myself. So like, I think being super lucky with
him and then. With angel syndicate i have kind
of four different co -founders on that company
and all super different and it's a bit of a different
company in the sense that like everyone. Involved
is also wearing multiple hats so no one is full
time on it no one is. You know feeling like what
are you doing you're not here but it's just been
enjoyed like it's been a joy to navigate it with
them and that's an earlier. founder dynamic so
we're still working out all of our dynamics but
so far it's been you know I feel they're very
good at kind of making me feel valued and I think
you know that's my worry and that team is that
I'm younger than everyone else I feel less accomplished
I kind of do to an extent with Tim as well but
that was slightly different because I'd had the
idea originally even though it became so different
when Tim got involved that it became our idea
but I'd kind of brought him onto it. That had
been a different dynamic for the last one I was
brought on and I was the kind of last co -founder
brought in and I'm like so much more than everyone
and like just in a different life stage. And
that they've been, I guess, again, really one
of the things that's been really, I guess, both
lucky and something that I've actively been assessing
is like, they're really thoughtful of that. So
I don't have to be the one to make the adaptations
because they're thinking about. how to make me
feel valued, how to make it clear that they,
you know, want me there even if I'm not contributing
in the same ways as them, that they see the contribution
elsewhere. And so I think I've been really lucky,
but also I've really looked for that, like, I
guess, emotional intelligence and co -founders
is a very strong thing I'm not willing to work
without. Just wondering, you know, of all your
teachings and the stuff you do, What advice would
you give to people just launching their business?
To haven't been to any of your courses, just
launching like, what do you say, just get these
basics right? Because this would be, you know,
you always get this right. What would that be?
So the cheeky short answer is We'll put a link
in the show notes. Because we've created a first
time founders roadmap, if we raise, which tries
to answer this question in like very tangible
steps and very tangible advice that you can practice
as you do it. Because the truth is, you've got
to learn a new skill set if you're at the early
stages. So the biggest piece of advice I would
give to a founder is to really be clear on the
risks and the idea, particularly To be very questioning
of the demand that you're assuming. So like,
if I'm built, like, first off, you shouldn't
be building anything if you don't know exactly
who it's for and exactly what problem it's solving.
Like stop building an app because you've had
an idea for a fully formed product. And by the
way, like, I don't want to be rude about that.
That is also how most people come to an idea.
You kind of think of the solution, you can picture
the branding, picture the packaging. And that's
normal. It's just. really dangerous and so be
really aware if that's where you are, I'd pull
back about 10 steps. So if you have an idea of
who you're serving and the pain that you're going
to relieve for them, particularly if that's because
it's a pain you've lived yourself, my advice
would always be to not take for granted and not
assume that everyone else shares that demand
and has the appetite to pay for a solution. And
we hear so many stories of founders who have
built from a personal pain. I think it's a great
place to build from. But it's such a big risk
to assume that just because this really matters
to you, it matters to the same degree to everyone
else. And so I would really prioritize testing
demand for the pain that you're planning to solve
as early as possible. And often, I guess all
I can say in a very generic sense is I promise
you, you can test more. quicker, cheaper than
you believe right now, because probably what
you're saying is, yes, but I need money to test
that because I need to build the first version
of the product. You'd be astounded by how much
demand testing you can do for such a cheap like
30 quid, 50 quid, and how much that can both
help you build something smarter. So it does
inform the product you build, it can get you
to market quicker, but also stop you building
the wrong thing. Which is such a waste of time,
money, energy. Now, Hattie, we can talk for hours,
which is a shame. We cannot talk for hours, but
I know we can talk for hours. If people want
to reach out to you and find more about you,
where can they do so and all the wonderful things
you do? Yeah, so best places are connect on LinkedIn.
We'd love to know what you thought of the episode.
Send me a message if you connect so I know where
you've come from and tell us something that stuck
out to you. It's always really helpful when meeting
new people. Um, and tell me your stage and what
you're up to. Um, the second place is Instagram.
So not my first guess is on Instagram. So that's
the podcast and we have a little Instagram community
behind it and we're sharing resources there all
the time. And then if we raise, which you can
kind of find if we raise .com. And if you want
to talk a little bit about your funding strategy
or your bootstrapping strategy, how are you going
to grow without funding? then we have free 20
minute sessions available to book with myself
or my co -founder, Tim. You'll kind of get one
of us or maybe both of us. Um, and I think one
thing I'd always say to people quickly is I hate
when I see like there's a free session and I'm
like, you're going to try and sell me thousands
of pounds worth of stuff at the end of this.
Uh, so just for anyone who's wondering if we
raise our membership, which is includes office
hours, so one hour every week where Tim or myself
or both of us are available to our founder members
to come and ask any questions you have and we'll
direct you to resources, we'll answer questions
from our own experience, we'll introduce you
to people who can answer them better. Access
to that and all sorts of other things is a guide
price of £25 a month and we never, ever, ever
want anyone to feel embarrassed if that's still
too high for where you are. We have a pay what
you can. You can choose it at the checkout. You
can set your own price for membership. You can
change it if your circumstances change. But it's
not, we're not trying to get you into a 20 minute
free session and then upsell you a terrifying
amount. So come connect there and we can have
a chat. Wonderful. That's absolutely amazing.
Harry, thank you so much for your time today.
It's been an absolute pleasure having you. This
podcast is also sponsored by startupnetworks
.co .uk. Startup Networks, it's an online forum
where you can find all the resources you need
to run your startup, from grants to investors
to tips and tricks on how to be successful in
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