WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.859 Welcome to the Innovation Conversation, a podcast 00:00:02.859 --> 00:00:05.360 about innovators, both in business and real life. 00:00:05.860 --> 00:00:08.419 Hosted by myself, Ricardo Rescual and Harry McCona. 00:00:08.619 --> 00:00:11.660 This podcast is sponsored by OpenExperts .com. 00:00:11.919 --> 00:00:14.140 OpenExperts is a place to go if you're looking 00:00:14.140 --> 00:00:16.300 to talk with top experts from around the world. 00:00:16.539 --> 00:00:20.879 That is Open -Experts .com. This podcast is also 00:00:20.879 --> 00:00:24.539 sponsored by StartupNetworks .co .uk. Startup 00:00:24.539 --> 00:00:26.820 Networks, it's an online forum where you can 00:00:26.820 --> 00:00:28.739 find all the resources you need to learn your 00:00:28.739 --> 00:00:31.449 startup. from grants to investors to tips and 00:00:31.449 --> 00:00:33.270 tricks on how to be successful when you start. 00:00:33.869 --> 00:00:36.909 Today with Hattie Wheelies, co -founder of E3 00:00:36.909 --> 00:00:40.270 Race, host of a podcast called Not My First Guest, 00:00:40.429 --> 00:00:43.149 and also a founder of Guessworks. Hi, and welcome 00:00:43.149 --> 00:00:45.390 to another episode of the Innovation Conversation. 00:00:45.549 --> 00:00:48.229 Today we are joined by Hattie Wheelies. Hattie, 00:00:48.310 --> 00:00:50.590 welcome. Thank you so much for having me and 00:00:50.590 --> 00:00:52.270 thank you everyone who's listening. I hope your 00:00:52.270 --> 00:00:54.600 day is going well wherever you are in it. No, 00:00:54.979 --> 00:00:58.259 it's a great intro. I don't think we ever had 00:00:58.259 --> 00:01:00.240 anyone so nice. Hedy, would you like to introduce 00:01:00.240 --> 00:01:01.840 yourself to the audience and kind of tell them 00:01:01.840 --> 00:01:04.640 a little bit more about yourself? Sure. So as 00:01:04.640 --> 00:01:07.260 my name implies, and this is going to be pun 00:01:07.260 --> 00:01:09.099 heavy, but that's a good instruction to who I 00:01:09.099 --> 00:01:11.719 am as a person. I wear three different hats, 00:01:11.840 --> 00:01:15.430 so I have all three different companies. So I'm 00:01:15.430 --> 00:01:17.709 the founder of a company called Guessbooks. We 00:01:17.709 --> 00:01:21.349 go into schools, universities, accelerator programs, 00:01:21.590 --> 00:01:23.629 and a few brave corporates, and we teach early 00:01:23.629 --> 00:01:26.189 stage innovation skills. So everything from how 00:01:26.189 --> 00:01:28.689 to come up with new ideas, how to test them in 00:01:28.689 --> 00:01:31.530 an early stage with real customers, how to think 00:01:31.530 --> 00:01:33.090 about whether you should go and get funding, 00:01:33.530 --> 00:01:36.030 how to fundraise, how to pitch. All the common 00:01:36.030 --> 00:01:37.810 stuff you'd find on an early stage accelerator, 00:01:37.969 --> 00:01:41.250 we teach it. And that's built on my background. 00:01:41.409 --> 00:01:44.010 So I was head of training and innovation consultancy. 00:01:44.750 --> 00:01:47.469 I've spent the last eight years designing and 00:01:47.469 --> 00:01:50.109 running workshops. I've got pretty good, I hope, 00:01:50.810 --> 00:01:53.969 at that turning frameworks and tools into something 00:01:53.969 --> 00:01:55.969 that isn't just theory, something you can really 00:01:55.969 --> 00:01:58.159 apply to your startup straight away. And then 00:01:58.159 --> 00:02:00.680 we bring in incredible founders who have lived 00:02:00.680 --> 00:02:03.500 experience, who have different skill sets applying 00:02:03.500 --> 00:02:05.519 these frameworks and we get them to teach as 00:02:05.519 --> 00:02:07.700 well. So they might not know how to translate 00:02:07.700 --> 00:02:11.319 those skills, those stories into what students 00:02:11.319 --> 00:02:13.919 need or founders need to be able to practice 00:02:13.919 --> 00:02:16.580 it. But we help them with that. So that's the 00:02:16.580 --> 00:02:19.240 first business, Guessworks. The second business, 00:02:19.240 --> 00:02:22.259 if we raise, is all about trying to work with 00:02:22.259 --> 00:02:26.590 founders directly. So we. aim to help founders 00:02:26.590 --> 00:02:29.729 who don't have an uncle who works in VC, who 00:02:29.729 --> 00:02:32.030 don't have parents who can put the first thousands 00:02:32.030 --> 00:02:35.270 of capital into their business, who maybe don't 00:02:35.270 --> 00:02:37.689 feel like they know anyone in entrepreneurship 00:02:37.689 --> 00:02:40.090 and it's feeling super lonely. And we try and 00:02:40.090 --> 00:02:41.849 help them in a few different ways. So the first 00:02:41.849 --> 00:02:43.770 big question, and the reason we're called If 00:02:43.770 --> 00:02:46.389 We Raise, is we try and help them work out should 00:02:46.389 --> 00:02:48.409 they be thinking about fundraising at all for 00:02:48.409 --> 00:02:50.490 their business. Lots of the founders that come 00:02:50.490 --> 00:02:53.009 to us are thinking, I'm about to start fundraising, 00:02:53.129 --> 00:02:55.400 how do I do it? And we ask first, should you 00:02:55.400 --> 00:02:59.879 do it? Because it's been so fed to us, I think, 00:03:00.319 --> 00:03:02.219 as this idea that that's how you start a startup, 00:03:02.400 --> 00:03:04.000 right? You have an idea, you go get funding, 00:03:04.319 --> 00:03:07.599 you grow, you succeed. So we try and challenge 00:03:07.599 --> 00:03:10.699 that. If funding is the right path, we want to 00:03:10.699 --> 00:03:12.780 help those founders, particularly unrepresented 00:03:12.780 --> 00:03:15.319 founders. So female founders, founders of color, 00:03:15.599 --> 00:03:19.990 disabled founders, LGBTQ plus IA founders. and 00:03:19.990 --> 00:03:22.330 founders from lower socioeconomic backgrounds 00:03:22.330 --> 00:03:24.770 who we know are less likely to be backed by investors. 00:03:25.449 --> 00:03:27.330 We try and help give them kind of warm introductions 00:03:27.330 --> 00:03:31.050 into the investment space. So to meet angel investors, 00:03:31.090 --> 00:03:33.530 we have an incredible group of angels who support 00:03:33.530 --> 00:03:36.710 us. And we're not introducing in the sense that 00:03:36.710 --> 00:03:38.289 they'll then necessarily make an investment, 00:03:38.669 --> 00:03:40.830 but our hope is that they're kind of conduits 00:03:40.830 --> 00:03:43.610 into the space. So you have those warm instructions, 00:03:43.710 --> 00:03:45.689 which we know matters so much to fundraising. 00:03:46.349 --> 00:03:48.930 And then on the other side, if you work out, 00:03:49.009 --> 00:03:50.490 you don't want to fundraise, which is a great 00:03:50.490 --> 00:03:53.610 path to how do we help you grow your business 00:03:53.610 --> 00:03:56.169 through what we call bootstrapping, which is 00:03:56.169 --> 00:03:59.250 a kind of common term in startup world for growing 00:03:59.250 --> 00:04:02.229 a business without external investment. And so 00:04:02.229 --> 00:04:04.229 how do you do that and feel less alone in the 00:04:04.229 --> 00:04:07.129 process? So that's if we raise it's a community 00:04:07.129 --> 00:04:09.849 and courses and that angel group that sits behind 00:04:09.849 --> 00:04:14.240 us. And then. We have a third company that I'm 00:04:14.240 --> 00:04:17.240 co -founder of with different co -founders and 00:04:17.240 --> 00:04:19.579 that is called Angel Syndicate. And we're all 00:04:19.579 --> 00:04:22.699 about trying to create more groups of angels. 00:04:22.779 --> 00:04:24.740 So if I'm using the word angel investor and you 00:04:24.740 --> 00:04:27.399 have no idea what that means, they're individuals 00:04:27.399 --> 00:04:30.040 investing their own money. So these are people 00:04:30.040 --> 00:04:33.759 who might be exed founders. They might have joined 00:04:33.759 --> 00:04:37.000 a startup and it's scaled and grown and they've 00:04:37.000 --> 00:04:39.560 got a nice chunk of cash when that startup's 00:04:39.560 --> 00:04:42.379 exited. Or they might just be experienced professionals 00:04:42.379 --> 00:04:44.519 with something to bring more than just investment. 00:04:45.439 --> 00:04:48.259 And those investors often form what are called 00:04:48.259 --> 00:04:50.319 angel syndicates, which are just groups of investors 00:04:50.319 --> 00:04:52.800 who share a theme they want to invest on that 00:04:52.800 --> 00:04:55.300 might be based on the founders. So like investing 00:04:55.300 --> 00:04:57.920 in female founders, it might be based on the 00:04:57.920 --> 00:05:02.319 space like climate investments. And so our goal 00:05:02.319 --> 00:05:05.939 is to make it easier to do that. unfund side 00:05:05.939 --> 00:05:07.860 of running an angel syndicate. So making sure 00:05:07.860 --> 00:05:10.160 you're compliant, managing your deal flow, all 00:05:10.160 --> 00:05:13.360 of that fun stuff. And also make it easier for 00:05:13.360 --> 00:05:15.759 founders to get funded faster, which is a big 00:05:15.759 --> 00:05:17.439 goal for me in general. If you're going to go 00:05:17.439 --> 00:05:19.660 off to funding, how can we make that a better 00:05:19.660 --> 00:05:23.540 process for you? Okay. So it's, you were not 00:05:23.540 --> 00:05:25.339 kidding when you said you do put on a lot of 00:05:25.339 --> 00:05:27.579 hats. I mean, that's quite impressive. And there's 00:05:27.579 --> 00:05:30.680 a podcast just for fun because I needed a hobby. 00:05:32.379 --> 00:05:34.279 Okay. So first question that pops into my mind 00:05:34.279 --> 00:05:36.300 is, How do you manage all this? Because this 00:05:36.300 --> 00:05:40.459 is a lot of stuff happening. Yeah, good question. 00:05:40.980 --> 00:05:43.500 So have a wonderful EA is probably the most honest 00:05:43.500 --> 00:05:47.079 answer, which was a recent hire. So I joined 00:05:47.079 --> 00:05:49.500 the last startup, Angel Syndicate, at the end 00:05:49.500 --> 00:05:51.879 of last year. I think that was probably the straw 00:05:51.879 --> 00:05:54.040 that broke the camel's back to realizing I needed 00:05:54.040 --> 00:05:58.040 more help than I was. Painful and so I've got 00:05:58.040 --> 00:06:00.639 any a she's wonderful. She is a huge support 00:06:00.639 --> 00:06:03.480 to making sure she sends me the sweetest emails 00:06:03.480 --> 00:06:05.800 that just say nudge when I'm kind of leaving 00:06:05.800 --> 00:06:07.939 things on the back burner too long. She helps 00:06:07.939 --> 00:06:11.079 me with a ton of stuff. So that genuinely and 00:06:11.079 --> 00:06:15.139 I used to think it feels like a really, um, almost 00:06:15.139 --> 00:06:16.839 feels like a humble brag. Like, Oh, I have an 00:06:16.839 --> 00:06:20.980 executive assistant. Like it just, I actually 00:06:20.980 --> 00:06:23.000 really resist it for a long time. I think because 00:06:23.000 --> 00:06:25.899 it felt like. thinking too much of myself like 00:06:25.899 --> 00:06:27.920 it kind of felt like I was picking myself up 00:06:27.920 --> 00:06:30.079 to do it, which was a weird thing to think, but 00:06:30.079 --> 00:06:33.819 maybe resonates with some listeners. So if you 00:06:33.819 --> 00:06:37.100 feel like that, I feel you. And I started speaking 00:06:37.100 --> 00:06:39.699 to founders and a few founders who are really 00:06:39.699 --> 00:06:41.600 rated who also quite early in their journeys, 00:06:42.040 --> 00:06:43.980 you know, all three of the businesses are early 00:06:43.980 --> 00:06:46.040 and they're still very much in hustle phase and 00:06:46.040 --> 00:06:48.720 bootstrapping. And so we don't have huge money 00:06:48.720 --> 00:06:50.959 to spend on hires. But I was speaking to these 00:06:50.959 --> 00:06:52.720 other founders who'd made the leap and they were 00:06:52.720 --> 00:06:55.850 telling me. about what it had given them, like 00:06:55.850 --> 00:06:59.310 freeing up their time. And I had this, I guess, 00:06:59.490 --> 00:07:01.189 like mindset shift at the end of last year, which 00:07:01.189 --> 00:07:03.870 was A, realizing I was actually really burning 00:07:03.870 --> 00:07:07.310 out. And I think I did slightly burn out at the 00:07:07.310 --> 00:07:09.769 beginning of this year for a number of reasons. 00:07:10.649 --> 00:07:14.189 But I think making the mindset shift to, hey, 00:07:14.269 --> 00:07:15.529 I'm not just going to invest in the company, 00:07:15.629 --> 00:07:16.930 but I'm going to invest in myself and I'm going 00:07:16.930 --> 00:07:19.800 to back myself that if I bring on someone and 00:07:19.800 --> 00:07:22.100 EA is quite helpful because it's not a permanent 00:07:22.100 --> 00:07:25.379 hire. For me, it's like a runs as a virtual assistant 00:07:25.379 --> 00:07:27.899 so I can, you know, pay for a number of hours 00:07:27.899 --> 00:07:30.100 a month and I've got like a month's notice if 00:07:30.100 --> 00:07:31.639 it's all going really wrong and I need to get 00:07:31.639 --> 00:07:34.720 out of it. And so I saw it as kind of what I 00:07:34.720 --> 00:07:37.019 need to invest in myself and freeing up my time. 00:07:37.139 --> 00:07:39.980 And I back that if I do that, I can sell more. 00:07:40.120 --> 00:07:42.360 I can be more creative. I can do the hard stuff 00:07:42.360 --> 00:07:45.160 that my brain needs more time that I'm giving 00:07:45.160 --> 00:07:48.110 at the moment to think around. But that said 00:07:48.110 --> 00:07:50.449 as well, I'm not sure I've nailed it and I certainly 00:07:50.449 --> 00:07:53.129 feel like I'm dropping balls all the time and 00:07:53.129 --> 00:07:54.629 it's a work in progress. I'm just going to ask 00:07:54.629 --> 00:07:57.589 you about something related to that, which is 00:07:57.589 --> 00:07:59.750 what do you think is the common denominator in 00:07:59.750 --> 00:08:02.379 a successful founder? Like when it comes to mindset, 00:08:02.879 --> 00:08:05.420 like you meet a lot of people that are, you know, 00:08:05.500 --> 00:08:07.680 bound to be very successful and they're going 00:08:07.680 --> 00:08:09.360 to be very successful. So what do you think it's 00:08:09.360 --> 00:08:12.139 a common denominator in their, you know, ways 00:08:12.139 --> 00:08:14.000 of thinking? Because we were just talking about 00:08:14.000 --> 00:08:16.060 how relevant it was to you to actually get an 00:08:16.060 --> 00:08:17.879 executive assistant to help you manage your time 00:08:17.879 --> 00:08:20.379 better, right? And they help you manage all the 00:08:20.379 --> 00:08:22.939 many things you do. So what's that one thing 00:08:22.939 --> 00:08:24.759 you know for a fact that everyone needs to have 00:08:24.759 --> 00:08:26.860 if they want to be successful as a startup founder? 00:08:27.660 --> 00:08:30.629 So this is going to be a bit contradictory. But 00:08:30.629 --> 00:08:34.169 I think for me, it's a gross mindset. So the 00:08:34.169 --> 00:08:36.809 idea, and that comes in a few different ways. 00:08:37.110 --> 00:08:38.909 So one is the idea that if I don't know how to 00:08:38.909 --> 00:08:41.629 do something, I can probably teach myself. And 00:08:41.629 --> 00:08:44.169 I interviewed an incredible founder on the podcast 00:08:44.169 --> 00:08:47.769 recently, Simi Lindgren, who literally has built 00:08:47.769 --> 00:08:51.009 an AI platform. She didn't know how to code. 00:08:51.230 --> 00:08:52.730 She didn't know how to do AI. So she was like, 00:08:52.769 --> 00:08:55.490 well, I can just teach myself that. And that's 00:08:55.490 --> 00:08:57.789 an insane mindset to have, right? And I think 00:08:57.789 --> 00:09:00.240 I have it. to a lesser degree, but this idea 00:09:00.240 --> 00:09:03.139 of, okay, I don't know how to do that. That'll 00:09:03.139 --> 00:09:05.960 be fun to work out, or I'm not good at that yet. 00:09:06.600 --> 00:09:08.720 And I think I'm not expecting to become brilliant 00:09:08.720 --> 00:09:11.539 at everything, but I kind of have this idea that 00:09:11.539 --> 00:09:14.419 I can learn a lot along the way. And if I can't 00:09:14.419 --> 00:09:17.139 do something, it doesn't mean I won't ever be 00:09:17.139 --> 00:09:18.539 able to do it. And I think that's really important 00:09:18.539 --> 00:09:21.740 for founders because in the early days, you are 00:09:21.740 --> 00:09:23.840 going to have to wear so many hats, and those 00:09:23.840 --> 00:09:25.340 hats might not come naturally to you. They might 00:09:25.340 --> 00:09:27.600 not be what you enjoy, right? There's lots of 00:09:27.600 --> 00:09:29.200 things you have to do in the early days that 00:09:29.200 --> 00:09:32.639 are not fun or glamorous. And I think going through 00:09:32.639 --> 00:09:37.200 that process of working out how do you do, I 00:09:37.200 --> 00:09:39.659 don't know, VAT, how do you do all the stuff 00:09:39.659 --> 00:09:41.580 when you can't afford to outsource it is a really 00:09:41.580 --> 00:09:44.039 good learning to go through. And then you have 00:09:44.039 --> 00:09:47.399 to kind of transition to working out what that 00:09:47.399 --> 00:09:50.340 growth mindset should be applied to. So, Just 00:09:50.340 --> 00:09:52.059 because I can learn something doesn't mean I 00:09:52.059 --> 00:09:53.320 should, doesn't mean that's a good use of my 00:09:53.320 --> 00:09:56.299 time. And there comes a point where actually 00:09:56.299 --> 00:09:58.419 you're growing and selling enough that you have 00:09:58.419 --> 00:10:01.340 a bit of money to play with, maybe to bring someone 00:10:01.340 --> 00:10:03.580 in. And so it's then working out, okay, well, 00:10:03.580 --> 00:10:07.279 where should I direct that in order to relieve 00:10:07.279 --> 00:10:09.159 myself to grow into the next thing? So just because 00:10:09.159 --> 00:10:11.100 I can grow in everything doesn't mean I should, 00:10:11.360 --> 00:10:14.100 I think is a big part of it. Wondering something 00:10:14.100 --> 00:10:17.379 else, obviously you have three businesses all 00:10:17.379 --> 00:10:20.629 running at the same time. How do you, how do 00:10:20.629 --> 00:10:23.129 you say no to things? Right? When do you say 00:10:23.129 --> 00:10:25.669 no to things? Like, what is that thing that you 00:10:25.669 --> 00:10:27.929 realize, actually, it's not just a time constraint 00:10:27.929 --> 00:10:30.429 is actually I need to do to say no to these type 00:10:30.429 --> 00:10:31.870 of things, because they'll take too much of my 00:10:31.870 --> 00:10:34.629 energy, or it's not, you know, it's not the right 00:10:34.629 --> 00:10:36.990 direction for me. So how do you manage all that? 00:10:37.289 --> 00:10:38.889 I feel like the better question is, do I say 00:10:38.889 --> 00:10:41.669 no to things? And the answer is no, just to be 00:10:41.669 --> 00:10:44.009 really matter about it. No, I'm joking. So I 00:10:44.009 --> 00:10:48.070 do say no to things. I have a kind of framework 00:10:48.070 --> 00:10:53.330 that I built with a coach that I use sometimes 00:10:53.330 --> 00:10:55.850 and should use all the time, but use sometimes. 00:10:56.149 --> 00:10:59.750 And it's a kind of waiting of an opportunity 00:10:59.750 --> 00:11:03.210 needs to deliver one of a few things. I've got 00:11:03.210 --> 00:11:05.230 my emojis on for anyone watching the video. It's 00:11:05.230 --> 00:11:09.029 going to do some fun reactions as we go. I had 00:11:09.029 --> 00:11:11.529 no idea we can do emojis here. Oh, let's not 00:11:11.529 --> 00:11:13.590 get started on that. If anyone hasn't downloaded 00:11:13.590 --> 00:11:16.289 the iOS reactions, they're very fun. Have a watch. 00:11:17.769 --> 00:11:21.250 But I think the things that are really important 00:11:21.250 --> 00:11:24.409 are, for me at least, it has to fit in a number 00:11:24.409 --> 00:11:26.590 of categories. One, I'm doing this for the impact. 00:11:26.950 --> 00:11:29.470 So if we raise, it's not making me a personal 00:11:29.470 --> 00:11:33.610 salary. It is really about the impact we're delivering. 00:11:33.809 --> 00:11:35.529 Down the line, I hope to take a personal salary 00:11:35.529 --> 00:11:37.289 from it because I want it to be sustainable. 00:11:37.810 --> 00:11:40.710 And I'm quite motivated by impacts of if I, and 00:11:40.710 --> 00:11:43.190 I often work for accelerators where they're not 00:11:43.190 --> 00:11:45.490 paying incredibly well, but I love the mission 00:11:45.490 --> 00:11:47.210 that they're on. I share the mission. So the 00:11:47.210 --> 00:11:49.590 impact thing is a big reason. I will say yes 00:11:49.590 --> 00:11:51.370 or no, if it aligns with what I'm trying to achieve 00:11:51.370 --> 00:11:55.090 in the ecosystem, which is making it easier for 00:11:55.090 --> 00:11:58.009 anyone to access, particularly those who've historically 00:11:58.009 --> 00:12:00.350 been blocked from the ecosystem, whether that's 00:12:00.350 --> 00:12:01.590 through funding, whether that's through being 00:12:01.590 --> 00:12:03.190 made to feel like they don't deserve to be in 00:12:03.190 --> 00:12:05.070 the room because no one else looks like them 00:12:05.070 --> 00:12:07.169 or has the same background or the same accent. 00:12:07.610 --> 00:12:11.649 So if it aligns with my personal mission of what 00:12:11.649 --> 00:12:13.830 I want to achieve, I'll do it. It's pretty straightforward. 00:12:14.809 --> 00:12:19.730 If it makes enough money to pay for me to keep 00:12:19.730 --> 00:12:22.549 doing what I'm doing. So I'm, you know, bootstrapping 00:12:22.549 --> 00:12:26.269 three businesses. I need to keep paying my mortgage. 00:12:27.110 --> 00:12:29.269 That is a pressure, right? And I hadn't had a 00:12:29.269 --> 00:12:31.250 big personal exit before this. That means I'm 00:12:31.250 --> 00:12:33.730 sitting on a stack of money that I've got huge 00:12:33.730 --> 00:12:37.179 savings to burn. I'm sure some people can relate 00:12:37.179 --> 00:12:40.179 to this. I guess the reason I always put that 00:12:40.179 --> 00:12:42.620 second is it can't conflict with values, right? 00:12:42.840 --> 00:12:45.720 I'm not going to go and take a huge amount of 00:12:45.720 --> 00:12:48.460 money to work with an accelerator that is working 00:12:48.460 --> 00:12:50.279 against my principles or a corporate that's against 00:12:50.279 --> 00:12:53.259 my principles. So I guess that's number two is 00:12:53.259 --> 00:12:57.919 does it just makes sense? Nice check. Three is, 00:12:58.179 --> 00:13:00.379 am I going to really enjoy it? And that might 00:13:00.379 --> 00:13:02.419 come in a number of ways. Like, I just really 00:13:02.419 --> 00:13:04.159 enjoy working with these people. They're amazing. 00:13:04.179 --> 00:13:06.000 I want to spend more time with them. I feel like 00:13:06.000 --> 00:13:08.580 I'm learning from them is a massive one for me. 00:13:09.360 --> 00:13:11.820 And do I feel like I'm learning something I want 00:13:11.820 --> 00:13:14.840 to learn because I really get energized by getting 00:13:14.840 --> 00:13:18.759 better at that skill. So for me, for instance, 00:13:18.820 --> 00:13:21.580 the podcast, not my first guess, that delivers 00:13:21.580 --> 00:13:24.960 a few things. It doesn't deliver money. If you're 00:13:24.960 --> 00:13:26.419 starting a podcast because you want to make money. 00:13:26.460 --> 00:13:33.480 I wouldn't, but for me, it allows me to be around 00:13:33.480 --> 00:13:36.000 founders who inspire me and who I learn from 00:13:36.000 --> 00:13:37.840 and who I think make me better at every other 00:13:37.840 --> 00:13:39.980 job I do. I think they make me better at giving 00:13:39.980 --> 00:13:42.600 advice. And if we raise, I think they open up 00:13:42.600 --> 00:13:44.580 a network who will come and support our, if we 00:13:44.580 --> 00:13:48.740 raise founders, they deliver a ton of examples 00:13:48.740 --> 00:13:51.600 for when I'm teaching this and guess works. And 00:13:51.600 --> 00:13:55.210 I'm, I really enjoy. The art of interviewing 00:13:55.210 --> 00:13:57.529 and it's something I want to get better at so 00:13:57.529 --> 00:13:59.610 that kind of ticks all of those boxes and every 00:13:59.610 --> 00:14:02.230 so often Podcasts cost quite a lot of money to 00:14:02.230 --> 00:14:04.210 run every so often. I'm like should I just cut 00:14:04.210 --> 00:14:06.909 this? I'm having to sell way more to pay for 00:14:06.909 --> 00:14:09.710 it But I keep going back to know because it ticks 00:14:09.710 --> 00:14:11.990 those boxes So I kind of try and have these criteria 00:14:11.990 --> 00:14:14.549 and it needs to hit at least one of them very 00:14:14.549 --> 00:14:16.970 strongly and ideally it needs to hit two For 00:14:16.970 --> 00:14:20.889 me to say yes to it So and the people thing comes 00:14:20.889 --> 00:14:24.460 in big time for me So Angel Syndicate, I joined 00:14:24.460 --> 00:14:28.379 A, because it's mission aligned, but B, I really 00:14:28.379 --> 00:14:31.720 rate the people I'm co -founding with and I love 00:14:31.720 --> 00:14:33.580 learning from them and I feel like I come off 00:14:33.580 --> 00:14:36.240 every call with a better understanding of parts 00:14:36.240 --> 00:14:39.100 of the ecosystem that I don't have the same background 00:14:39.100 --> 00:14:42.039 or experience in. And how did you get started 00:14:42.039 --> 00:14:43.980 in all this? Because you didn't just wake up 00:14:43.980 --> 00:14:46.679 one day and launch three businesses. So how did 00:14:46.679 --> 00:14:50.659 that happen? What was the journey like? So the 00:14:50.659 --> 00:14:55.690 very short slightly silly version is I kicked 00:14:55.690 --> 00:14:58.590 a man out of a bar and he ended up hiring me 00:14:58.590 --> 00:15:03.190 onto his startup. And I ended up working in startups 00:15:03.190 --> 00:15:07.549 ever since. So I was at uni, I'm actually wearing 00:15:07.549 --> 00:15:16.250 my college bar jumper today. But I was a volunteered, 00:15:17.129 --> 00:15:18.549 actually didn't just volunteer, I literally, 00:15:18.690 --> 00:15:21.740 it was like an elected position. I ran. to be 00:15:21.740 --> 00:15:26.340 bar manager of this college. Hilariously, you 00:15:26.340 --> 00:15:28.480 had to do these things called hustings. We had 00:15:28.480 --> 00:15:30.120 to kind of stand up and defend why you were going 00:15:30.120 --> 00:15:33.419 to be the best bar manager. And hilariously, 00:15:33.460 --> 00:15:35.960 I actually had appendicitis at the time. And 00:15:35.960 --> 00:15:38.559 I was running with my wonderful housemate. It's 00:15:38.559 --> 00:15:41.059 quite funny. He was brilliant. He was our treasurer. 00:15:42.779 --> 00:15:45.779 And he kind of got up and said, Hattie couldn't 00:15:45.779 --> 00:15:49.019 be here today. She's at home. And one of my friends 00:15:49.019 --> 00:15:51.340 very graciously stood up and went, Well, maybe 00:15:51.340 --> 00:15:53.600 tell them why she's at home. She's not just not 00:15:53.600 --> 00:15:57.279 turning up. Um, so, but anyway, luckily he then 00:15:57.279 --> 00:15:59.179 did explain, I really wanted to be that, but 00:15:59.179 --> 00:16:01.639 was lying in bed, unable to move without doubling 00:16:01.639 --> 00:16:04.960 up in pain. And so anyway, we got into the bar 00:16:04.960 --> 00:16:08.240 and one day we were running stock take on a Sunday, 00:16:08.580 --> 00:16:12.779 a guy walks in. I've now had two people say I 00:16:12.779 --> 00:16:14.600 was quite grumpy. I used to say I thought I was 00:16:14.600 --> 00:16:17.340 very friendly, but now both my bar treasurer 00:16:17.340 --> 00:16:19.759 and the man who walked in said I was very grumpy 00:16:19.759 --> 00:16:22.419 and unreceptive. Mainly because I wanted to go 00:16:22.419 --> 00:16:24.320 home. It was a Sunday. I didn't want to be there. 00:16:25.379 --> 00:16:27.440 But he was running this startup. They were doing 00:16:27.440 --> 00:16:29.700 mobile gifting. So let's say I'm running late 00:16:29.700 --> 00:16:31.700 for your birthday party. I can send you a pint 00:16:31.700 --> 00:16:34.940 and you can redeem it at the bar. And they wanted 00:16:34.940 --> 00:16:38.210 us to be a venue. Really quickly, the unit economics 00:16:38.210 --> 00:16:40.250 didn't work. Like they were charging five quid 00:16:40.250 --> 00:16:44.070 a pint. We were like getting massive resistance 00:16:44.070 --> 00:16:46.049 at the idea of raising prices from one pound 00:16:46.049 --> 00:16:48.789 20 for a pint. That was like, I think I'd have 00:16:48.789 --> 00:16:51.830 been like, people would have come for me. Um, 00:16:52.070 --> 00:16:55.070 and so it didn't work. We've kind of said, sorry, 00:16:55.289 --> 00:16:57.429 but recommended some other venues. And he gave 00:16:57.429 --> 00:17:00.210 us this little card that had this like free pint 00:17:00.210 --> 00:17:03.879 on it, which is very kind of him. But we obviously 00:17:03.879 --> 00:17:05.180 went to a venue so it was a free pint for another 00:17:05.180 --> 00:17:08.240 bar, but still very thoughtful. And I went away 00:17:08.240 --> 00:17:10.559 and later in the week, I was doing a kind of 00:17:10.559 --> 00:17:12.440 supervision. So I'd come back and like check 00:17:12.440 --> 00:17:14.920 everything was going okay. And I think I was 00:17:14.920 --> 00:17:17.519 like lifting down like a box of like very heavy 00:17:17.519 --> 00:17:19.640 vodka. And I like looked into the bar and saw 00:17:19.640 --> 00:17:23.640 him at the bar. And I was like, oh, that's nice. 00:17:23.660 --> 00:17:25.880 He's there. And then I realized he was handing 00:17:25.880 --> 00:17:29.299 out these vouchers. So I like put down this very 00:17:29.299 --> 00:17:31.940 heavy box very quickly. and like grabbed the 00:17:31.940 --> 00:17:34.720 next guy who came past me out of the bar and 00:17:34.720 --> 00:17:38.259 was like, Hey, what's that? Show it to me. And 00:17:38.259 --> 00:17:40.779 he showed it to me. And it was this free pint. 00:17:41.180 --> 00:17:44.880 And I was like really like frustrated me because 00:17:44.880 --> 00:17:48.720 we were like struggling. Like the bar was like 00:17:48.720 --> 00:17:50.460 people were drinking less at uni at that time, 00:17:50.480 --> 00:17:52.259 which was great for their grades, but not great 00:17:52.259 --> 00:17:56.039 for us. And we were like the, they hadn't inflated 00:17:56.039 --> 00:17:58.660 prices in like six years. I mean, I think we 00:17:58.660 --> 00:18:01.130 were the last year they didn't inflate it. And 00:18:01.130 --> 00:18:03.049 so I was like, we can't afford for you to be 00:18:03.049 --> 00:18:05.509 giving away their students. Like if they get 00:18:05.509 --> 00:18:06.690 a free pint, they'll drink it somewhere else. 00:18:06.730 --> 00:18:09.009 And like, we actually need that pint. Every pint 00:18:09.009 --> 00:18:15.109 counts. And so I kind of asked him to leave and 00:18:15.109 --> 00:18:18.069 said, look, you can do that. I can't stop you 00:18:18.069 --> 00:18:19.509 doing this anywhere else in the college. You 00:18:19.509 --> 00:18:20.970 can literally do it outside the bar. I can't 00:18:20.970 --> 00:18:22.750 stop you, but like, can you at least have the 00:18:22.750 --> 00:18:25.509 respect not to do it while sat at my bar? Like 00:18:25.509 --> 00:18:29.849 that's just rude. And he. had my email from the 00:18:29.849 --> 00:18:34.029 first encounter, sent me a very apologetic email 00:18:34.029 --> 00:18:36.569 saying he didn't really realize that was going 00:18:36.569 --> 00:18:38.490 to be an issue in his time in the bar, which 00:18:38.490 --> 00:18:41.549 I could believe, like they just had so much custom 00:18:41.549 --> 00:18:45.190 that he just didn't think it was a problem. And 00:18:45.190 --> 00:18:47.230 could he make it up to me? Why didn't we run 00:18:47.230 --> 00:18:49.410 an event where he would pay for all of the drinks 00:18:49.410 --> 00:18:51.490 for the evening if people downloaded the app? 00:18:51.569 --> 00:18:53.750 So the idea was like, I'll give out the free 00:18:53.750 --> 00:18:57.930 drinks, but like they're at your bar. And he 00:18:57.930 --> 00:19:02.329 came and ran it. We, I feel like I'm kind of 00:19:02.329 --> 00:19:03.549 admitting that this should have been someone 00:19:03.549 --> 00:19:05.529 else's job, but we had a couple of social media 00:19:05.529 --> 00:19:08.009 pages that someone else had set up. I hadn't 00:19:08.009 --> 00:19:10.589 set them up. And I had my laptop behind the bar 00:19:10.589 --> 00:19:13.369 and I was like, just throughout the evening writing 00:19:13.369 --> 00:19:16.170 like, hey, come to the bar, free drinks. Like 00:19:16.170 --> 00:19:18.150 the most basic social media you've ever seen. 00:19:19.289 --> 00:19:21.230 And I was marketing to students, it's not a hard 00:19:21.230 --> 00:19:27.009 sell, free drinks. And the founder. And his co 00:19:27.009 --> 00:19:28.970 -founder with that and they were like, Oh, we've 00:19:28.970 --> 00:19:30.650 just fired our social media team. Do you want 00:19:30.650 --> 00:19:33.390 the job? They were a few pints in at this point. 00:19:34.549 --> 00:19:37.250 And I was like a really poor student. And I think 00:19:37.250 --> 00:19:38.690 like, I still remember they were like, Oh, we 00:19:38.690 --> 00:19:40.450 were paying like 600 pounds a month. And I was 00:19:40.450 --> 00:19:43.230 like, Oh my God, that's so much money. They never 00:19:43.230 --> 00:19:45.970 paid me that much, but I ended up like hounding 00:19:45.970 --> 00:19:49.009 them for a month after this event. I still remember 00:19:49.009 --> 00:19:51.849 them kind of like walking out the bar arm in 00:19:51.849 --> 00:19:53.930 arm. And I was like, so about that job, you know, 00:19:54.009 --> 00:19:57.619 calling after them. And I just hounded them for 00:19:57.619 --> 00:20:00.960 like a month straight being like, so how's that 00:20:00.960 --> 00:20:05.819 job looking? So we love that job. So how's the 00:20:05.819 --> 00:20:10.900 socials? And I still remember very vividly where 00:20:10.900 --> 00:20:15.039 I was on Oxford High Street when they like emailed 00:20:15.039 --> 00:20:17.200 and I was like, and they were like, yeah, okay, 00:20:17.200 --> 00:20:20.140 let's do it. It paid me 80 pounds a week, which 00:20:20.140 --> 00:20:23.140 was, you know, still as a student, amazing. And 00:20:23.829 --> 00:20:26.250 I remember being like, oh, I don't really know 00:20:26.250 --> 00:20:29.269 what Twitter is and Instagram is this kind of 00:20:29.269 --> 00:20:31.269 new thing, like maybe I should learn that. And 00:20:31.269 --> 00:20:36.170 what have I got myself in for? And it was really 00:20:36.170 --> 00:20:40.990 fun. I learned a load. I gave out a lot of free 00:20:40.990 --> 00:20:44.329 brownies, free cocktails to friends. I was quite 00:20:44.329 --> 00:20:46.750 an epitistic social media manager. Whenever I 00:20:46.750 --> 00:20:48.470 needed likes on a post, I'd kind of go around 00:20:48.470 --> 00:20:50.230 my housemates being like, who wants a free brownie 00:20:50.230 --> 00:20:54.309 if you like my post? But did kind of well enough 00:20:54.309 --> 00:20:58.430 that while the company failed, the investors 00:20:58.430 --> 00:21:00.589 and the founder really liked what I'd done. And 00:21:00.589 --> 00:21:03.210 so they kind of shipped me around their friends 00:21:03.210 --> 00:21:06.569 and their investments and said, hey, go and help 00:21:06.569 --> 00:21:09.009 them. And so I kind of started working with different 00:21:09.009 --> 00:21:10.750 startups and it was always just like the founders 00:21:10.750 --> 00:21:14.309 and me. And so I got this like insane access 00:21:14.309 --> 00:21:17.569 to learn from them. And also the amount of autonomy 00:21:17.569 --> 00:21:19.849 to kind of have an idea and test it with real 00:21:19.849 --> 00:21:22.829 customers that afternoon. I was like 19, I was 00:21:22.829 --> 00:21:26.210 so addictive. And I think that that is the thing 00:21:26.210 --> 00:21:28.230 that got me totally hooked on the startup world. 00:21:29.230 --> 00:21:32.470 And when I eventually left uni at that point, 00:21:33.089 --> 00:21:35.089 I'd worked with I think five different startups, 00:21:35.630 --> 00:21:40.950 everything from B2B, SAS, to kind of B2B2C. And 00:21:40.950 --> 00:21:42.849 one of the last companies I worked with was for 00:21:42.849 --> 00:21:46.130 that original founder. He'd gone and joined an 00:21:46.130 --> 00:21:48.430 entrepreneurship education company. So they were 00:21:48.599 --> 00:21:50.599 They wrote the book called The Mum Test, which 00:21:50.599 --> 00:21:53.799 is still one of the most favorite books of most 00:21:53.799 --> 00:21:56.220 founders I interview, and one of my favorite 00:21:56.220 --> 00:22:00.019 things still to this day to teach. And they were 00:22:00.019 --> 00:22:02.839 teaching startup skills in like ecosystems like 00:22:02.839 --> 00:22:07.420 Estonia, in universities. And so I kind of worked 00:22:07.420 --> 00:22:10.339 for them for a while, creating kind of content, 00:22:10.500 --> 00:22:13.680 doing all sorts. And then I kind of had this 00:22:13.680 --> 00:22:17.259 idea for a startup, which was terrible. The idea 00:22:17.259 --> 00:22:20.789 was so bad. I got the bug, but I had this like 00:22:20.789 --> 00:22:23.349 terrible idea, which was like, I was going to 00:22:23.349 --> 00:22:28.890 charge charities to advertise for what they really 00:22:28.890 --> 00:22:31.910 wanted from volunteers who would be like young 00:22:31.910 --> 00:22:35.250 people who like me had time, but nothing to give 00:22:35.250 --> 00:22:38.869 in terms of like money. And yeah, it's kind of, 00:22:38.869 --> 00:22:41.150 it's actually a terrible idea in terms of monetization, 00:22:41.630 --> 00:22:46.509 loads of flaws. But so I had this idea. And I 00:22:47.149 --> 00:22:50.589 I actually went back to this founder who I'd 00:22:50.589 --> 00:22:52.589 kicked out the bar. We're still friends to this 00:22:52.589 --> 00:22:57.069 day. I've worked in four startups with him. Is 00:22:57.069 --> 00:23:02.650 that true? Yeah, four. I said, I feel like I've 00:23:02.650 --> 00:23:04.150 learned a ton from you. I feel like I've learned 00:23:04.150 --> 00:23:07.349 a ton from the startups I worked in, but I also 00:23:07.349 --> 00:23:08.789 feel like there's a ton of mistakes I'm going 00:23:08.789 --> 00:23:11.789 to make if I just go and do this. You teach it. 00:23:12.130 --> 00:23:15.140 I'm broke. Can I come on a course and I'll write 00:23:15.140 --> 00:23:17.500 some content for you or do something for you 00:23:17.500 --> 00:23:22.299 on marketing in risk, you know, as a favor. And 00:23:22.299 --> 00:23:28.000 he agreed on the proviso that I helped a bit 00:23:28.000 --> 00:23:31.599 at the workshop that I let him buy me lunch and 00:23:31.599 --> 00:23:33.960 that he could pitch me a job. And I was like, 00:23:33.960 --> 00:23:35.720 well, I'm really happy to press record on a camcorder. 00:23:35.960 --> 00:23:40.420 I love lunch and I like jobs. And the job, the 00:23:40.420 --> 00:23:43.700 job he pitched me the standing Joke is I've had 00:23:43.700 --> 00:23:46.500 to set up guess works because the job he pitched 00:23:46.500 --> 00:23:49.099 me was basically guess works. Um, so teaching, 00:23:49.099 --> 00:23:53.339 um, or like educating students at universities 00:23:53.339 --> 00:23:57.599 on entrepreneurship and ecosystems. And I remember 00:23:57.599 --> 00:23:59.759 the lunch. He was like, you're clearly so motivated 00:23:59.759 --> 00:24:01.500 by impact. I think you're really going to enjoy 00:24:01.500 --> 00:24:04.180 that. You're going to get so much from it. And 00:24:04.180 --> 00:24:06.259 we also do stuff with corporates. I didn't think 00:24:06.259 --> 00:24:07.740 you're going to be that excited by that. And 00:24:07.740 --> 00:24:10.740 I was like, yeah, no, like it's cool, but. I'm 00:24:10.740 --> 00:24:12.359 not sure it's going to fulfill the impact side. 00:24:13.319 --> 00:24:15.319 Obviously, I spent the next six years in corporate 00:24:15.319 --> 00:24:18.140 innovation, so I joined the company. Never worked 00:24:18.140 --> 00:24:22.839 for the university while I was there, but I really 00:24:22.839 --> 00:24:24.859 enjoyed it from an intellectual perspective. 00:24:25.160 --> 00:24:28.220 I learned a ton. I got to be very industry agnostic, 00:24:28.259 --> 00:24:31.900 so I saw how startups worked in totally different 00:24:31.900 --> 00:24:40.730 sectors, from banking to mining. Learned a lot 00:24:40.730 --> 00:24:46.869 through to kind of consumer goods. And it was 00:24:46.869 --> 00:24:49.650 intellectually amazing. The company was incredible 00:24:49.650 --> 00:24:52.089 at investing in me. So I think after a couple 00:24:52.089 --> 00:24:54.730 of years, I had been running these accelerator 00:24:54.730 --> 00:24:58.750 programs for startups. And again, all this training 00:24:58.750 --> 00:25:00.490 had been happening and I've been sitting avidly 00:25:00.490 --> 00:25:03.750 in every session. And that was just a part of 00:25:03.750 --> 00:25:05.890 me that And actually it wasn't just a part of 00:25:05.890 --> 00:25:09.349 me. One of our startups, because I would spend 00:25:09.349 --> 00:25:11.250 my time running programs, I'd spend so much of 00:25:11.250 --> 00:25:13.430 my time with them. And so they'd come out of 00:25:13.430 --> 00:25:14.849 these sessions and they'd start applying the 00:25:14.849 --> 00:25:17.230 skills and they'd run it past me and I'd end 00:25:17.230 --> 00:25:21.170 up kind of quietly coaching them, which I wasn't 00:25:21.170 --> 00:25:24.890 really supposed to be doing. And one of them 00:25:24.890 --> 00:25:26.490 kind of turned around to me one day and he was 00:25:26.490 --> 00:25:28.809 like, why are you doing this program management 00:25:28.809 --> 00:25:31.470 thing? You shouldn't be doing it. It's not what 00:25:31.470 --> 00:25:34.240 you want to do. You should be doing, why aren't 00:25:34.240 --> 00:25:35.440 you running the workshops? You should be running 00:25:35.440 --> 00:25:41.339 the workshops. And so I pitched to that original 00:25:41.339 --> 00:25:47.680 fund. I said, I have three hypotheses. Hypothesis 00:25:47.680 --> 00:25:52.119 number one is that if you invest in me as a workshop 00:25:52.119 --> 00:25:55.480 facilitator, I can deliver huge value to this 00:25:55.480 --> 00:25:58.140 company. I think I'll be able to be a really 00:25:58.140 --> 00:25:59.940 good, like low cost way of delivering workshops. 00:25:59.940 --> 00:26:01.980 But I also think. the clients will be really 00:26:01.980 --> 00:26:04.220 happy. So like hypothesis number two is, I think 00:26:04.220 --> 00:26:07.319 I'll be good at it. And hypothesis number three 00:26:07.319 --> 00:26:11.559 is, I think I will love it. I think I'll get 00:26:11.559 --> 00:26:14.039 loads of energy from it. And those are hypotheses. 00:26:14.160 --> 00:26:16.119 I framed those hypotheses, right? We taught people 00:26:16.119 --> 00:26:17.619 to think in assumptions. I was like, could be 00:26:17.619 --> 00:26:19.220 wrong, could hate this. You could spend loads 00:26:19.220 --> 00:26:21.119 of money training me and I'm rubbish or I don't 00:26:21.119 --> 00:26:24.700 enjoy it and I want to change my roles. But luckily 00:26:24.700 --> 00:26:27.440 I didn't and they did invest a huge amount in 00:26:27.440 --> 00:26:31.480 training me. I had One of the most incredible 00:26:31.480 --> 00:26:33.960 coaches, he was actually my first ever podcast 00:26:33.960 --> 00:26:37.099 guest, a guy called Devin Hunt, who'd been through 00:26:37.099 --> 00:26:40.579 Y Combinator with kind of the PayPal, not PayPal, 00:26:41.359 --> 00:26:47.059 sorry, the Dropbox cohort. And really, yeah, 00:26:47.059 --> 00:26:48.819 just remarkable. I learned so much from him. 00:26:48.839 --> 00:26:50.880 They invested in pitch training for me, all sorts. 00:26:51.619 --> 00:26:53.980 Yeah. So that was my way into training. And then 00:26:53.980 --> 00:26:56.519 I became kind of head of training, started designing 00:26:56.519 --> 00:26:58.519 accelerator programs. So they invested and backed 00:26:58.519 --> 00:27:03.769 me. ridiculous amount and at an age where I mean 00:27:03.769 --> 00:27:05.369 I definitely felt like for a long time I kind 00:27:05.369 --> 00:27:07.470 of had to pretend to clients I was a lot older 00:27:07.470 --> 00:27:10.210 than I was. There was one accelerator in particular 00:27:10.210 --> 00:27:12.670 they all became obsessed with how old I was and 00:27:12.670 --> 00:27:15.150 they would like try and guess and try and catch 00:27:15.150 --> 00:27:17.950 me out and I'm just like not... Were you a bit 00:27:17.950 --> 00:27:21.890 younger at the time? Yeah I was um I mean I don't 00:27:21.890 --> 00:27:23.769 know how old they were guessing like in their 00:27:23.769 --> 00:27:27.180 30s and I was like I'm... I'm definitely like 00:27:27.180 --> 00:27:32.059 25, thanks. And they were like, but you look 00:27:32.059 --> 00:27:33.480 super young, but what you're doing means you 00:27:33.480 --> 00:27:36.059 must be in your 30s. And I was like, okay, I'm 00:27:36.059 --> 00:27:37.920 glad you didn't say I look old because no one 00:27:37.920 --> 00:27:41.079 wants to be looking in their 30s at 25. Exactly. 00:27:42.099 --> 00:27:47.259 But yeah, and I, anyway, I loved it. I really, 00:27:47.259 --> 00:27:49.460 really enjoyed it. I did it for quite a long 00:27:49.460 --> 00:27:53.619 time. I then kind of decided what we were doing 00:27:53.619 --> 00:27:57.279 needed to be made digital, so I kind of pitched. 00:27:57.480 --> 00:28:00.940 I wanted to do a digital learning product to 00:28:00.940 --> 00:28:02.460 take everything we were running in person and 00:28:02.460 --> 00:28:06.460 make it scalable. So that was really fun. I sold 00:28:06.460 --> 00:28:10.640 it to a client who that sale paid for the development 00:28:10.640 --> 00:28:13.740 of the first version. I got to go and kind of 00:28:13.740 --> 00:28:16.559 do it and it was great fun. I was suddenly writing 00:28:16.559 --> 00:28:20.119 scripts and directing and recording the stuff 00:28:20.119 --> 00:28:24.559 and creating these whole courses and it was I 00:28:24.559 --> 00:28:28.440 really enjoyed it. But I kind of got offered 00:28:28.440 --> 00:28:31.220 the chance to stay and run that as a business 00:28:31.220 --> 00:28:34.900 unit. And I thought I was going to take it. I 00:28:34.900 --> 00:28:39.099 really did. I was kind of told you on the path 00:28:39.099 --> 00:28:41.740 to partner, you're an associate partner will 00:28:41.740 --> 00:28:44.759 kind of build you up there. But increasingly, 00:28:44.759 --> 00:28:50.279 I think I realized the bits that I'd have to 00:28:50.279 --> 00:28:54.210 give up to become that role. I didn't want to 00:28:54.210 --> 00:28:57.650 give up because I love working directly with 00:28:57.650 --> 00:29:01.430 founders and startups. And increasingly, if I 00:29:01.430 --> 00:29:02.910 was like trying to take this more senior role 00:29:02.910 --> 00:29:05.809 in that it made sense for me to step further 00:29:05.809 --> 00:29:08.190 and further back and run teams and be much less 00:29:08.190 --> 00:29:11.150 connected with it. And that was the right strategy 00:29:11.150 --> 00:29:13.710 for the company, but it wasn't right for me personally. 00:29:13.869 --> 00:29:18.950 And so I ended up leaving. but to join a spin 00:29:18.950 --> 00:29:21.450 out of the company that started a venture studio. 00:29:21.970 --> 00:29:24.430 So we would, my role in that company was to kind 00:29:24.430 --> 00:29:27.430 of come up with new ideas, test them at an early 00:29:27.430 --> 00:29:30.430 stage. Do I think this is investable? Can I make 00:29:30.430 --> 00:29:33.069 an investment case for it that passes? We had 00:29:33.069 --> 00:29:35.410 our own investment committee and then we would 00:29:35.410 --> 00:29:37.829 partner with a corporate and they would invest 00:29:37.829 --> 00:29:40.369 as well and they would lend not just money, but 00:29:40.369 --> 00:29:43.509 kind of unfair advantages to the ventures. And 00:29:43.509 --> 00:29:45.250 so that was really fun, like intellectually. 00:29:47.120 --> 00:29:50.980 Crazy, I mean like kind of mad concept that every 00:29:50.980 --> 00:29:53.200 eight weeks you go into a new industry and you 00:29:53.200 --> 00:29:54.799 try and come up with a billion dollar idea within 00:29:54.799 --> 00:30:01.420 it, which is really fun, quite high stress. And 00:30:01.420 --> 00:30:05.000 so I ended up, and also like the ideas you then 00:30:05.000 --> 00:30:08.119 had to hand them over. And we had this concept 00:30:08.119 --> 00:30:12.759 that we would only put a founder onto the idea 00:30:12.759 --> 00:30:15.039 who'd raise the equivalent of series A funding. 00:30:15.599 --> 00:30:17.380 And that hadn't been my path. And so I was like, 00:30:17.380 --> 00:30:19.259 well, I can't really be a founder of one of these 00:30:19.259 --> 00:30:22.759 ventures in the model that we've sold to our 00:30:22.759 --> 00:30:25.759 investors and to corporates. So I think I need 00:30:25.759 --> 00:30:30.279 to leave. And so I left because I just wanted 00:30:30.279 --> 00:30:33.980 the space to kind of spend more time on things, 00:30:34.099 --> 00:30:36.500 come up with my own ideas. And like, if it was 00:30:36.500 --> 00:30:38.660 something that I felt like I loved and was super 00:30:38.660 --> 00:30:40.779 passionate about, I didn't have to hand over 00:30:40.779 --> 00:30:43.880 necessarily. So that took me to the three companies. 00:30:43.900 --> 00:30:47.420 That's how I got to Guessworks. In this journey 00:30:47.420 --> 00:30:50.420 that you've been on, what was the worst that 00:30:50.420 --> 00:30:52.619 you had? The day you said, you know what, screw 00:30:52.619 --> 00:30:55.000 this, I'm going to go and work for McDonald's. 00:30:55.079 --> 00:30:56.700 Not that there's anything wrong working for McDonald's, 00:30:56.740 --> 00:30:59.400 but I'm going to get a proper job in a very nice 00:30:59.400 --> 00:31:01.480 civil company. I work from nine to five. I don't 00:31:01.480 --> 00:31:03.759 need to worry about anything else. And how did 00:31:03.759 --> 00:31:06.180 you get back from that moment? Like last Friday? 00:31:08.440 --> 00:31:10.819 Like the truth is I kind of feel like I have 00:31:10.819 --> 00:31:13.440 loads of those moments. Um, and they never last 00:31:13.440 --> 00:31:15.480 long and they're never as deep as I'm not going 00:31:15.480 --> 00:31:18.000 to do this, but there are real, there are real 00:31:18.000 --> 00:31:20.519 points when I really like, I worry that I've 00:31:20.519 --> 00:31:23.099 messed it all up or, and like often it's things 00:31:23.099 --> 00:31:26.660 like. You know, we were talking before this about 00:31:26.660 --> 00:31:30.180 like how quickly podcast costs add up and this 00:31:30.180 --> 00:31:32.640 year we're like really investing in it and it's 00:31:32.640 --> 00:31:35.140 not a money generating thing for us. I'd like 00:31:35.140 --> 00:31:36.519 it at some point to wash their face, but it's 00:31:36.519 --> 00:31:39.849 not. And so. This year we've just taken on a 00:31:39.849 --> 00:31:43.589 load of extra overhead basically and I'm also 00:31:43.589 --> 00:31:47.289 trying to transition guess works from being me 00:31:47.289 --> 00:31:52.509 running 99 % of the workshops to I run the ones 00:31:52.509 --> 00:31:54.230 I want to run because I will always want to run 00:31:54.230 --> 00:31:56.910 some workshops as we learned from my previous 00:31:56.910 --> 00:32:00.720 quitting. Where I don't want to run a workshop 00:32:00.720 --> 00:32:02.700 or I don't have capacity like how do we grow 00:32:02.700 --> 00:32:05.579 and I'm not the blocker So we're increasingly 00:32:05.579 --> 00:32:07.339 bringing in these incredible entrepreneurs I 00:32:07.339 --> 00:32:08.960 mentioned to come and run the sessions but that 00:32:08.960 --> 00:32:10.660 suddenly means like our margins take and you 00:32:10.660 --> 00:32:13.819 know if I'm running the session like It's anything 00:32:13.819 --> 00:32:16.099 that's profits profit and suddenly we're bringing 00:32:16.099 --> 00:32:19.980 in these trainers. So I've got to triple sales 00:32:19.980 --> 00:32:23.519 this year in order to be more profitable than 00:32:23.519 --> 00:32:26.059 last year because we've got more overheads and 00:32:26.059 --> 00:32:28.140 more and like our margins have taken hit because 00:32:28.140 --> 00:32:30.079 the business models evolved and that's really 00:32:30.079 --> 00:32:32.660 exciting but it's really scary and that point 00:32:32.660 --> 00:32:37.420 of you know me getting an EA and me getting this 00:32:37.420 --> 00:32:39.980 other support and that feeling like I've got 00:32:39.980 --> 00:32:42.579 to back myself there is this part of me that's 00:32:42.579 --> 00:32:47.039 like what if I'm there's still the sense and 00:32:47.039 --> 00:32:49.180 I'd like teach founders to get through this but 00:32:49.180 --> 00:32:51.099 I still hit it and I didn't stay in it for very 00:32:51.099 --> 00:32:55.119 long. I still hit it of what if I invest all 00:32:55.119 --> 00:32:56.740 this and I still fail. What do you do in those 00:32:56.740 --> 00:32:58.779 moments? Like who do you go and ask for help? 00:33:02.339 --> 00:33:05.920 So I'm really lucky in the sense that I had like 00:33:05.920 --> 00:33:07.319 one of those moments literally I wasn't joking 00:33:07.319 --> 00:33:08.759 about last Friday, I had one of those moments 00:33:08.759 --> 00:33:11.900 and I have a few different people who help in 00:33:11.900 --> 00:33:15.079 very different ways. So I was having one of those 00:33:15.079 --> 00:33:17.200 moments over the weekend, my boyfriend walked 00:33:17.200 --> 00:33:19.480 in. looked at my face and was like, what's up? 00:33:19.579 --> 00:33:23.579 You look anxious. And we talked it through and 00:33:23.579 --> 00:33:27.240 he was brilliant. I mean, his immediate response 00:33:27.240 --> 00:33:30.319 was like, I'm not worried. Why are you worried 00:33:30.319 --> 00:33:32.640 about that? Like, you're going to, like, abscess 00:33:32.640 --> 00:33:34.220 that? Like, there's no way. That's not worrying, 00:33:34.519 --> 00:33:36.140 but not in a dismissive way. And you're like, 00:33:36.140 --> 00:33:40.119 you've got this way. So I have this cheerleader 00:33:40.119 --> 00:33:43.319 and this wonderful person who looks after me 00:33:43.319 --> 00:33:46.559 and checks in and does a load of the emotional. 00:33:46.759 --> 00:33:51.559 support that I really need. I also have incredible 00:33:51.559 --> 00:33:55.279 co -founders on two of the three businesses and 00:33:55.279 --> 00:33:57.779 they don't just like help on the two business, 00:33:57.819 --> 00:33:59.500 the business that they're involved in, right? 00:34:00.619 --> 00:34:04.279 So Tim, for instance, on If We Raise, he has 00:34:04.279 --> 00:34:06.980 exited a couple of agency businesses. So he's 00:34:06.980 --> 00:34:09.500 always there when I have questions or just like 00:34:09.500 --> 00:34:11.960 feeling stressed about trying to transition guest 00:34:11.960 --> 00:34:14.199 works to a different model. I can go and ask 00:34:14.199 --> 00:34:18.449 him his advice on that. And yeah, and then I 00:34:18.449 --> 00:34:22.030 have this incredible network of founder friends 00:34:22.030 --> 00:34:25.429 who just get it. And I think sometimes that's, 00:34:25.510 --> 00:34:27.190 we've got to be careful. We've got to be better 00:34:27.190 --> 00:34:30.309 as a group. I think of not just like we'll all 00:34:30.309 --> 00:34:31.889 get together and we're all slightly stressed. 00:34:31.909 --> 00:34:34.309 And there's an element of like, it just becomes 00:34:34.309 --> 00:34:35.710 founder therapy every time we're trying to meet 00:34:35.710 --> 00:34:38.889 for drinks and catch up on life. But I find that 00:34:38.889 --> 00:34:41.050 really, really useful. And I think having those 00:34:41.050 --> 00:34:43.710 spaces, particularly as someone who tries to 00:34:43.710 --> 00:34:46.250 create that space for other people. It feels 00:34:46.250 --> 00:34:49.750 a little bit like therapists having therapists. 00:34:50.110 --> 00:34:53.469 Like I need a space where I can be, I don't have 00:34:53.469 --> 00:34:55.429 to be the expert, where I don't have to have, 00:34:55.809 --> 00:34:57.670 and I never pretend I have all the answers, but 00:34:57.670 --> 00:35:00.710 where at least I don't have to worry that is 00:35:00.710 --> 00:35:02.650 someone thinking that I'm incapable because I 00:35:02.650 --> 00:35:04.269 don't have the answer on this, because that sometimes 00:35:04.269 --> 00:35:08.389 does worry me. And so having like very safe spaces 00:35:08.389 --> 00:35:11.159 where I feel like. i can just be super vulnerable 00:35:11.159 --> 00:35:13.599 and say i feel like i'm messing this up or like 00:35:13.599 --> 00:35:15.239 i feel like i've made a really rookie mistake 00:35:15.239 --> 00:35:16.860 that i teach other founders not to make and i 00:35:16.860 --> 00:35:20.280 fall into it and i'll use those as teaching examples 00:35:20.280 --> 00:35:23.099 later and i never worry about sharing them in 00:35:23.099 --> 00:35:24.360 the long term but in the short term when i'm 00:35:24.360 --> 00:35:25.840 going through it i need someone who i can just 00:35:25.840 --> 00:35:27.900 be really real with you know you mentioned all 00:35:27.900 --> 00:35:29.760 these businesses and your relationship with your 00:35:29.760 --> 00:35:32.079 co -founders how do you manage all that because 00:35:32.360 --> 00:35:34.199 I'm sure that's not, it's not just the managing 00:35:34.199 --> 00:35:36.320 of the businesses, but it's also managing of 00:35:36.320 --> 00:35:38.539 the relationship with co -founders because they 00:35:38.539 --> 00:35:40.619 all have different ideas. They all want to take 00:35:40.619 --> 00:35:42.980 charge of the business that they're running simultaneously 00:35:42.980 --> 00:35:45.860 with you. So how do you manage all those relationships 00:35:45.860 --> 00:35:48.440 and the emotions that come with it? I think I've 00:35:48.440 --> 00:35:53.219 had a really easy run of this. So Tim is my co 00:35:53.219 --> 00:36:00.239 -founder for the longest time. So he is genuinely 00:36:02.119 --> 00:36:04.940 So there's a standing joke, which is that when 00:36:04.940 --> 00:36:07.280 my boyfriend started his company, I tried to 00:36:07.280 --> 00:36:09.099 have a really helpful conversation with him about, 00:36:09.440 --> 00:36:12.440 you know, why Tim was the perfect match for me 00:36:12.440 --> 00:36:14.820 and like how that would be helpful to him to 00:36:14.820 --> 00:36:17.079 think about finding a co -founder. And he kind 00:36:17.079 --> 00:36:20.880 of interrupted me and said like, sorry, but Tim 00:36:20.880 --> 00:36:23.619 is just the perfect co -founder for anyone. Like 00:36:23.619 --> 00:36:26.800 he's just that. And I've spoken to people who 00:36:26.800 --> 00:36:28.320 know Tim since and they're like, yeah, a hundred 00:36:28.320 --> 00:36:34.440 percent. So he's a trained coach. He's gone through 00:36:34.440 --> 00:36:38.639 therapy training as well. And it just means that 00:36:38.639 --> 00:36:42.619 he's incredibly self -aware and incredibly, his 00:36:42.619 --> 00:36:47.619 communication is outstanding. He's also really 00:36:47.619 --> 00:36:53.389 fun to work with. He's funny. I come out of every 00:36:53.389 --> 00:36:56.250 conversation energized and in some ways because 00:36:56.250 --> 00:37:01.090 maybe because we're not. All in together like 00:37:01.090 --> 00:37:03.329 actually when we do work together we get to really 00:37:03.329 --> 00:37:06.510 enjoy it because it's not too close all the time 00:37:06.510 --> 00:37:10.090 I think and I think he's really good. You know 00:37:10.090 --> 00:37:14.590 I get there the guilt sometimes of you know I'm 00:37:14.590 --> 00:37:17.670 not spending my time on this the need is he but 00:37:17.670 --> 00:37:20.750 you know sometimes life will come up and I had 00:37:20.750 --> 00:37:24.380 some. you know, personal stuff come up in January 00:37:24.380 --> 00:37:30.219 that I very much like felt I wanted to give the 00:37:30.219 --> 00:37:33.380 time to. And that was a choice. Like I didn't, 00:37:33.579 --> 00:37:35.679 you know, I didn't have to, but I really, really 00:37:35.679 --> 00:37:40.539 wanted to. And it was, I was very aware that 00:37:40.539 --> 00:37:44.320 it was to support someone else who it wasn't, 00:37:44.320 --> 00:37:46.260 it wasn't directly affecting me. I didn't, I 00:37:46.260 --> 00:37:48.219 didn't have to be there in a way that like often 00:37:48.219 --> 00:37:50.570 you would have to. Be involved. You can't walk 00:37:50.570 --> 00:37:54.269 away from bad things. And I kind of ended up 00:37:54.269 --> 00:37:56.070 saying this to Tim. I was like, well, this isn't 00:37:56.070 --> 00:37:58.550 happening directly to me. I'm taking huge amounts 00:37:58.550 --> 00:38:02.349 of time off for this. I feel really guilty. And 00:38:02.349 --> 00:38:05.369 he sent me back a message saying, this is, but 00:38:05.369 --> 00:38:08.309 this isn't, this why we've chosen to be founders. 00:38:08.610 --> 00:38:10.949 Like, and we've chosen to found in this way because 00:38:10.949 --> 00:38:12.750 we want to be able to do life. And this is an 00:38:12.750 --> 00:38:14.969 important part of doing life. This is like the 00:38:14.969 --> 00:38:17.050 ability to be there for the people you love when 00:38:17.050 --> 00:38:20.340 you want to be there for them. Like that's one 00:38:20.340 --> 00:38:22.219 reason to not work in a big corporate, right? 00:38:23.980 --> 00:38:28.179 And he also simultaneously said, my second, like 00:38:28.179 --> 00:38:31.880 he said, I promise you, I will take responsibility 00:38:31.880 --> 00:38:33.719 that if I start to feel like you're taking the 00:38:33.719 --> 00:38:35.940 piss, I will tell you. So the responsibility 00:38:35.940 --> 00:38:37.440 is on me, not you. You don't have to worry about 00:38:37.440 --> 00:38:38.980 that. You don't have to second guess that I will 00:38:38.980 --> 00:38:41.039 just communicate if I feel like we're getting 00:38:41.039 --> 00:38:43.219 there. And so it kind of took this weight off 00:38:43.219 --> 00:38:45.340 me of, I still, you know, worried about it a 00:38:45.340 --> 00:38:52.059 bit, but In that time when I was really trying 00:38:52.059 --> 00:38:54.500 to kind of give all my energy to someone else, 00:38:54.719 --> 00:38:59.239 him taking that weight off me was just, I can't 00:38:59.239 --> 00:39:01.280 even begin to say how grateful I am to him for 00:39:01.280 --> 00:39:04.440 it. And that's who he is as a co -founder. And 00:39:04.440 --> 00:39:07.900 then, you know, he'll also challenge me and, 00:39:07.900 --> 00:39:10.500 you know, big me up and make me feel great about 00:39:10.500 --> 00:39:13.199 myself. So like, I think being super lucky with 00:39:13.199 --> 00:39:16.099 him and then. With angel syndicate i have kind 00:39:16.099 --> 00:39:19.099 of four different co -founders on that company 00:39:19.099 --> 00:39:22.920 and all super different and it's a bit of a different 00:39:22.920 --> 00:39:26.500 company in the sense that like everyone. Involved 00:39:26.500 --> 00:39:29.719 is also wearing multiple hats so no one is full 00:39:29.719 --> 00:39:33.960 time on it no one is. You know feeling like what 00:39:33.960 --> 00:39:38.179 are you doing you're not here but it's just been 00:39:38.179 --> 00:39:40.019 enjoyed like it's been a joy to navigate it with 00:39:40.019 --> 00:39:43.320 them and that's an earlier. founder dynamic so 00:39:43.320 --> 00:39:45.719 we're still working out all of our dynamics but 00:39:45.719 --> 00:39:49.360 so far it's been you know I feel they're very 00:39:49.360 --> 00:39:53.980 good at kind of making me feel valued and I think 00:39:53.980 --> 00:39:56.420 you know that's my worry and that team is that 00:39:56.420 --> 00:39:59.099 I'm younger than everyone else I feel less accomplished 00:39:59.099 --> 00:40:01.099 I kind of do to an extent with Tim as well but 00:40:01.099 --> 00:40:03.460 that was slightly different because I'd had the 00:40:03.460 --> 00:40:06.260 idea originally even though it became so different 00:40:06.260 --> 00:40:09.380 when Tim got involved that it became our idea 00:40:09.380 --> 00:40:11.769 but I'd kind of brought him onto it. That had 00:40:11.769 --> 00:40:14.889 been a different dynamic for the last one I was 00:40:14.889 --> 00:40:18.050 brought on and I was the kind of last co -founder 00:40:18.050 --> 00:40:21.710 brought in and I'm like so much more than everyone 00:40:21.710 --> 00:40:24.329 and like just in a different life stage. And 00:40:24.329 --> 00:40:27.829 that they've been, I guess, again, really one 00:40:27.829 --> 00:40:31.050 of the things that's been really, I guess, both 00:40:31.050 --> 00:40:33.510 lucky and something that I've actively been assessing 00:40:33.510 --> 00:40:35.650 is like, they're really thoughtful of that. So 00:40:35.650 --> 00:40:37.750 I don't have to be the one to make the adaptations 00:40:37.750 --> 00:40:39.900 because they're thinking about. how to make me 00:40:39.900 --> 00:40:42.760 feel valued, how to make it clear that they, 00:40:42.760 --> 00:40:44.860 you know, want me there even if I'm not contributing 00:40:44.860 --> 00:40:47.559 in the same ways as them, that they see the contribution 00:40:47.559 --> 00:40:50.820 elsewhere. And so I think I've been really lucky, 00:40:50.840 --> 00:40:53.059 but also I've really looked for that, like, I 00:40:53.059 --> 00:40:54.880 guess, emotional intelligence and co -founders 00:40:54.880 --> 00:40:57.519 is a very strong thing I'm not willing to work 00:40:57.519 --> 00:40:59.780 without. Just wondering, you know, of all your 00:40:59.780 --> 00:41:02.960 teachings and the stuff you do, What advice would 00:41:02.960 --> 00:41:04.960 you give to people just launching their business? 00:41:05.219 --> 00:41:07.519 To haven't been to any of your courses, just 00:41:07.519 --> 00:41:09.900 launching like, what do you say, just get these 00:41:09.900 --> 00:41:11.760 basics right? Because this would be, you know, 00:41:11.880 --> 00:41:13.659 you always get this right. What would that be? 00:41:14.340 --> 00:41:18.440 So the cheeky short answer is We'll put a link 00:41:18.440 --> 00:41:23.260 in the show notes. Because we've created a first 00:41:23.260 --> 00:41:25.840 time founders roadmap, if we raise, which tries 00:41:25.840 --> 00:41:27.820 to answer this question in like very tangible 00:41:27.820 --> 00:41:30.920 steps and very tangible advice that you can practice 00:41:30.920 --> 00:41:33.920 as you do it. Because the truth is, you've got 00:41:33.920 --> 00:41:36.199 to learn a new skill set if you're at the early 00:41:36.199 --> 00:41:38.619 stages. So the biggest piece of advice I would 00:41:38.619 --> 00:41:42.960 give to a founder is to really be clear on the 00:41:42.960 --> 00:41:48.780 risks and the idea, particularly To be very questioning 00:41:48.780 --> 00:41:52.239 of the demand that you're assuming. So like, 00:41:52.559 --> 00:41:54.619 if I'm built, like, first off, you shouldn't 00:41:54.619 --> 00:41:56.800 be building anything if you don't know exactly 00:41:56.800 --> 00:41:58.440 who it's for and exactly what problem it's solving. 00:41:58.980 --> 00:42:02.059 Like stop building an app because you've had 00:42:02.059 --> 00:42:03.800 an idea for a fully formed product. And by the 00:42:03.800 --> 00:42:05.599 way, like, I don't want to be rude about that. 00:42:05.599 --> 00:42:08.639 That is also how most people come to an idea. 00:42:08.880 --> 00:42:10.860 You kind of think of the solution, you can picture 00:42:10.860 --> 00:42:13.360 the branding, picture the packaging. And that's 00:42:13.360 --> 00:42:15.920 normal. It's just. really dangerous and so be 00:42:15.920 --> 00:42:17.760 really aware if that's where you are, I'd pull 00:42:17.760 --> 00:42:21.400 back about 10 steps. So if you have an idea of 00:42:21.400 --> 00:42:23.860 who you're serving and the pain that you're going 00:42:23.860 --> 00:42:26.599 to relieve for them, particularly if that's because 00:42:26.599 --> 00:42:30.079 it's a pain you've lived yourself, my advice 00:42:30.079 --> 00:42:32.820 would always be to not take for granted and not 00:42:32.820 --> 00:42:34.780 assume that everyone else shares that demand 00:42:34.780 --> 00:42:38.519 and has the appetite to pay for a solution. And 00:42:38.519 --> 00:42:40.719 we hear so many stories of founders who have 00:42:40.719 --> 00:42:42.780 built from a personal pain. I think it's a great 00:42:42.780 --> 00:42:45.860 place to build from. But it's such a big risk 00:42:45.860 --> 00:42:47.679 to assume that just because this really matters 00:42:47.679 --> 00:42:50.000 to you, it matters to the same degree to everyone 00:42:50.000 --> 00:42:54.139 else. And so I would really prioritize testing 00:42:54.139 --> 00:42:57.500 demand for the pain that you're planning to solve 00:42:57.500 --> 00:43:02.340 as early as possible. And often, I guess all 00:43:02.340 --> 00:43:05.860 I can say in a very generic sense is I promise 00:43:05.860 --> 00:43:09.250 you, you can test more. quicker, cheaper than 00:43:09.250 --> 00:43:11.409 you believe right now, because probably what 00:43:11.409 --> 00:43:14.650 you're saying is, yes, but I need money to test 00:43:14.650 --> 00:43:16.190 that because I need to build the first version 00:43:16.190 --> 00:43:19.650 of the product. You'd be astounded by how much 00:43:19.650 --> 00:43:23.550 demand testing you can do for such a cheap like 00:43:23.550 --> 00:43:29.349 30 quid, 50 quid, and how much that can both 00:43:29.349 --> 00:43:32.929 help you build something smarter. So it does 00:43:32.929 --> 00:43:34.489 inform the product you build, it can get you 00:43:34.489 --> 00:43:36.789 to market quicker, but also stop you building 00:43:36.789 --> 00:43:39.510 the wrong thing. Which is such a waste of time, 00:43:39.750 --> 00:43:42.929 money, energy. Now, Hattie, we can talk for hours, 00:43:43.550 --> 00:43:46.130 which is a shame. We cannot talk for hours, but 00:43:46.130 --> 00:43:49.110 I know we can talk for hours. If people want 00:43:49.110 --> 00:43:51.010 to reach out to you and find more about you, 00:43:51.170 --> 00:43:52.909 where can they do so and all the wonderful things 00:43:52.909 --> 00:43:56.570 you do? Yeah, so best places are connect on LinkedIn. 00:43:56.789 --> 00:43:58.849 We'd love to know what you thought of the episode. 00:43:58.949 --> 00:44:00.829 Send me a message if you connect so I know where 00:44:00.829 --> 00:44:03.530 you've come from and tell us something that stuck 00:44:03.530 --> 00:44:05.150 out to you. It's always really helpful when meeting 00:44:05.150 --> 00:44:07.579 new people. Um, and tell me your stage and what 00:44:07.579 --> 00:44:11.360 you're up to. Um, the second place is Instagram. 00:44:11.699 --> 00:44:15.760 So not my first guess is on Instagram. So that's 00:44:15.760 --> 00:44:17.940 the podcast and we have a little Instagram community 00:44:17.940 --> 00:44:20.599 behind it and we're sharing resources there all 00:44:20.599 --> 00:44:24.739 the time. And then if we raise, which you can 00:44:24.739 --> 00:44:27.659 kind of find if we raise .com. And if you want 00:44:27.659 --> 00:44:30.900 to talk a little bit about your funding strategy 00:44:30.900 --> 00:44:33.219 or your bootstrapping strategy, how are you going 00:44:33.219 --> 00:44:36.230 to grow without funding? then we have free 20 00:44:36.230 --> 00:44:39.329 minute sessions available to book with myself 00:44:39.329 --> 00:44:41.630 or my co -founder, Tim. You'll kind of get one 00:44:41.630 --> 00:44:44.789 of us or maybe both of us. Um, and I think one 00:44:44.789 --> 00:44:48.969 thing I'd always say to people quickly is I hate 00:44:48.969 --> 00:44:51.889 when I see like there's a free session and I'm 00:44:51.889 --> 00:44:53.750 like, you're going to try and sell me thousands 00:44:53.750 --> 00:44:55.789 of pounds worth of stuff at the end of this. 00:44:56.050 --> 00:44:59.309 Uh, so just for anyone who's wondering if we 00:44:59.309 --> 00:45:03.489 raise our membership, which is includes office 00:45:03.489 --> 00:45:07.230 hours, so one hour every week where Tim or myself 00:45:07.230 --> 00:45:09.369 or both of us are available to our founder members 00:45:09.369 --> 00:45:11.690 to come and ask any questions you have and we'll 00:45:11.690 --> 00:45:13.409 direct you to resources, we'll answer questions 00:45:13.409 --> 00:45:15.690 from our own experience, we'll introduce you 00:45:15.690 --> 00:45:18.730 to people who can answer them better. Access 00:45:18.730 --> 00:45:23.150 to that and all sorts of other things is a guide 00:45:23.150 --> 00:45:27.809 price of £25 a month and we never, ever, ever 00:45:27.809 --> 00:45:30.429 want anyone to feel embarrassed if that's still 00:45:30.429 --> 00:45:32.800 too high for where you are. We have a pay what 00:45:32.800 --> 00:45:34.980 you can. You can choose it at the checkout. You 00:45:34.980 --> 00:45:37.179 can set your own price for membership. You can 00:45:37.179 --> 00:45:40.300 change it if your circumstances change. But it's 00:45:40.300 --> 00:45:42.420 not, we're not trying to get you into a 20 minute 00:45:42.420 --> 00:45:44.659 free session and then upsell you a terrifying 00:45:44.659 --> 00:45:47.320 amount. So come connect there and we can have 00:45:47.320 --> 00:45:50.539 a chat. Wonderful. That's absolutely amazing. 00:45:51.099 --> 00:45:52.300 Harry, thank you so much for your time today. 00:45:52.420 --> 00:45:55.480 It's been an absolute pleasure having you. This 00:45:55.480 --> 00:45:58.380 podcast is also sponsored by startupnetworks 00:45:58.380 --> 00:46:01.940 .co .uk. Startup Networks, it's an online forum 00:46:01.940 --> 00:46:03.960 where you can find all the resources you need 00:46:03.960 --> 00:46:06.480 to run your startup, from grants to investors 00:46:06.480 --> 00:46:08.639 to tips and tricks on how to be successful in 00:46:08.639 --> 00:46:11.699 your startup. This podcast is sponsored by openexperts 00:46:11.699 --> 00:46:14.739 .com. OpenExperts is the place to go if you're 00:46:14.739 --> 00:46:16.559 looking to talk with top experts from around 00:46:16.559 --> 00:46:20.019 the world. That is open -experts .com.