NOTE: Please excuse any errors in the auto-transcription. Thank you.

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Welcome to this episode of Parallel Times.

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Today I'll be interviewing Brianne Bernsen.

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Am I pronouncing your last name correctly, Brianne?

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You are.

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It's Brianne.

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It's a hard name.

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Brianne.

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I don't think I've known of Brianne before.

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So I'll be interviewing Brianne Bernsen, who's the founder of Plum Fabulous Foods, which

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is a micro-farm on a homestead in Plum, Texas.

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And at Plum Fabulous Foods, they grow 3,000 pounds of food a year.

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On a tenth of an acre, it's actually a little less than a tenth of an acre, isn't it?

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And Brianne also homeschools for six children while she's doing all of this.

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So welcome, Brianne, and thank you so much for being with us today.

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I'm really excited to chat with you.

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So I met Brianne when she presented at John and Rebecca Bush's Exit and Build Land Conference

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in Bastrop, Texas, in May of 2023.

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And Breanne, I really wanted to talk to you because this is what so many people are feeling

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that they need to do or want to do, what you and your husband have done.

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And so they can learn from your experience because you've been doing this for, I understand,

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about 15 years now.

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And Brianne started this process in 2009.

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Is that right?

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I think so, yeah.

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Okay, great.

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Probably 2007.

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2007, wow, okay.

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And then she's learned through trial and error and she's poured a lot of what she knows into

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this book, which I purchased at, let's see, make sure that you can see it, which I purchased

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at the Exit and Build Land seminar, which is called the Plum Fabulous Guide to Gardening,

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which is just amazing.

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It's like she's giving you those 15 years of experience so that we don't all have to

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learn as much by trial and error as she did.

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So it's quite gracious of her actually to hand over that much information.

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And in this book, she shares generously to expedite everyone's learning curve.

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And we're going to be talking today about Brianne's experiences and some tips for others

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who want to grow bountiful, healthy food.

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Because Brianne, will you say and spell your website for us for the folks who are just

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listening to an audio tape?

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Sure.

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It's www.plumfabulousfoods.com

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So plum, p-l-u-m, fabulous, f-a-b-u-l-o-u-s, and foods, f-o-o-d-s, dot com.

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Great.

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And you can find all kinds of articles on there or links to our YouTube.

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Yeah, I was impressed that you have so much free information, education.

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You have that whole series on preserving and fermenting, and it's all free.

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So I definitely encourage people to go and look at what's on the website because it's

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a great resource.

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And you can also buy the book there, correct?

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Is that right, Brianne?

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You can't.

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We're very small scale, and if you go to the contact me page on the website and just shoot

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me a message, then we take care of handling the book.

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We still snail mail them, and we accept payment online.

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So we take care of it through there.

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Great.

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Thank you.

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And I think you mentioned something about wanting to publish with a publisher, but I have

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to say I love this format because the spiral bound makes it easy.

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Like if you wanted to have this in your garden.

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And actually, it's all printed on a laser jet so that if the pages get wet, if you have

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it in the garden and the pages get wet, they're not going to run.

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And so that's an extra cost to the printing.

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We do all the printing and binding ourselves.

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My printing crew is six and 11 and 14.

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They do a great job.

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And throughout this interview as well, I'm going to be dropping in some photos from Brianne's

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book as well as some other images that she just provided to me.

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So that'll be a little eye candy.

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So you know what we're talking about as we go.

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I'm going to jump in.

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I understand you can grow year round where you live in Texas, which is uncommon in many

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parts of the US.

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But fall is typically an important harvest season.

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I imagine that's true for you too, even though you grow year round.

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Can you tell us a little bit about what you and your family grew this year and what

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you're most excited about in terms of your results and your yield?

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Sure.

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So we do harvest year round.

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You asked earlier what we're harvesting right now.

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I can tell you I picked over 100 pounds of squash in the last two weeks.

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So there's a lot of things.

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We just had our first little micro freeze.

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And so we lost a lot of our, we have two summer plantings and two fall plantings really.

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So we lost a lot of our spring stuff.

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But just real quick, I'm going to read the list of the 33 different crops we grow a year

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year round here.

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So bush beans, beets, broccoli, bok choy, cabbage, cauliflower, carrots, corn, cucumber,

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kale, oak, eggplant, all kinds of herbs, garlic, leeks, kale, kohlrabi, onions, okra, peas,

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lettuce, peanuts, peppers, potatoes, radishes, sweet potatoes, summer squash, strawberries,

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Swiss chard, tomatoes, turnip, watermelon, winter squash, and spinach.

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And that is in addition to any of the fruit trees that we have.

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And then we also raised 150 meat birds a year and we have about 30 lang hens that we have

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year round as well.

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So I always try to encourage people in the idea of food resiliency.

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You don't have to be the person that does everything.

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But you have to pick a couple key areas and then know people that do.

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And so we don't do bees and we don't do cows, but I know lots of people that do.

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And so it's really easy to barter with them because not very many people do the vegetables.

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And chickens are also something that not a whole lot of people do.

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So in Texas, everybody has cows.

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So it's really easy to find somebody that's raising beef and trade with them.

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That's really interesting about what's common down there and what's not as common down there.

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But that seems like, that's real.

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I want to underscore these key points for people as you mentioned them because they

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drop like gold.

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You know, these key takeaways and so that idea that you don't have to do everything

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could reduce some of the overwhelm and the idea that you want to find a niche that's

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really needed in your area so that you can barter.

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Those are both so helpful.

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Thank you.

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Yeah.

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And it's always easier to do something that you're passionate about.

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And so I'm really passionate about vegetables.

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We eat a mostly vegetarian diet with meat added.

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I say we're like meat eating vegetarians.

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And it's because vegetables are the easiest to produce year round with this few outside

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inputs.

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If I could grow my own corn feed, I mean a chicken feed, which maybe I could if I really

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tried.

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I've tried and I haven't been successful.

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But if I could do that, then maybe I would focus so much on the vegetables.

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I would just do chickens.

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But really vegetables is the easiest thing to learn how to do.

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And it produces year round and you get such a variety.

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I mean, I couldn't just, we couldn't just live on chickens.

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You know, if we couldn't find somebody to barter with.

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And so I love the diversity of the fruits and vegetables.

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That's wonderful and great, great tip.

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And I like that idea of being vegetarians that eats some meat.

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Yeah.

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Seems very practical.

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So I love the story in your book about how and why you started growing food.

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So can you give us sort of a nutshell version of that story so that I'm sure people can

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relate?

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Yeah.

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So one of the things I always try to convince people is that they don't have to grow up

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gardening because so many things you feel like you have to have this background knowledge

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in it.

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And you really don't with gardening.

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We decided to be a stay at home.

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I was going to be a stay at home mom and start raising our children and homeschooling

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them.

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And from two incomes to one income overnight.

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And in that process, I was looking for ways to reduce our grocery bill.

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And at the same time, we live in a very small rural Texas town.

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We didn't have a whole lot of organic offerings that the grocery store.

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And I wanted to make all of our own baby food.

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And so I went to the library and I got a book.

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And unfortunately, I got a great book to get me started in gardening.

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It was organic based methods.

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It's called the vegetable gardener's Bible.

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We started with two little beds in our city backyard.

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And I started just raising vegetables in those two little beds.

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And I just had no idea how much I was going to love it.

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But there's no better feeling.

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I really feel like we were created to grow our own food because I don't think there's

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many things in life that will bring you as much joy as producing your own food.

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It's just, it's hard to explain.

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So you've had the opportunity to do it.

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And I had no idea I would enjoy it so much.

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And we started having more children and we knew we were going to have to move to the

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country.

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And when we did, the first thing we did was build a bigger garden.

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And so I didn't have any background in it.

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Everything I've learned, I've learned from reading books and just applying it.

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I am a student of gardening.

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And so I am always keeping notes and looking for ways to improve it.

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It's all trial and error, 100%.

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Okay, that's great.

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And that's kind of a lead in.

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I saw a theme in your book, if you will, which was about soil, like all the iterations and

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the evolution of how you have created, accessed, purchased, you know, transformed soil.

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So can you tell us, I mean, and maybe this sounds like the obvious, but I think it's,

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it bears repeating.

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I've heard people say that the earth biome is like, like the human biome, our gut is

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like the earth biome is the soil.

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And so can you tell us a little bit about the importance of having good soil to being

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successful as a gardener or farmer and also what good soil is?

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Sure.

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I'll try to keep it a simple answer, but you say it may seem obvious, but I don't think

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it is.

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I don't think it is enough to people that it is so obvious.

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Like I said, I was very lucky to get started in an organic approach.

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So it was a no till approach.

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And it was all about building good soil from the beginning.

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And after we, when we moved here to Plum, I read another book, the New Square Foot

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Gardening Book by Mel Bartholomew.

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And in it, he had this theory that he wanted to develop a system that he could bring anywhere

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in the world, like Africa or India or someplace that had these terrible soil conditions and

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have a successful garden.

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And unbeknownst to me, when we moved to Plum, we moved to an area that had terrible soil.

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It is thick black gumbo clay.

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It's so hard that when we had our fiber line put in, the dish digger couldn't dig through

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the clay.

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It was too hard.

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It's like our Kaleichi in Mexico.

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Yeah.

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And so just hearing that idea of building the system that could be used anywhere was so

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appealing to me.

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And so we started, we've never tilled ever since we've been here because in reading the

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vegetable gardens Bible, I understood that there was this world going on underneath the

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soil, even though I didn't understand much about it.

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So we always knew to go up and to build healthy soil above the ground.

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And so everybody knows, there's all sorts of methods and theories out there in gardening.

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And so gardening's been around for a really long time, right?

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Like a long time.

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And you would think in all those years that we would have this best practices system identified.

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And we really don't.

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We really have all these various things that people can do.

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And one of the trends now is to have like hydroponics or the grow life systems and the

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things that you are growing plants where you just have the light and you have the water

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and then you're adding chemicals and nutrients into it.

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So plants obviously need water and sunlight.

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Okay.

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So what is it that they're getting from the soil that's so important?

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And what they're getting is all these micronutrients.

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So nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium, all these micronutrients and minerals that the plants

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need to grow.

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And if you grow something on a piece of land, those plants are going to take all those micronutrients

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and minerals out of the soil and you have to be able to put it back in the soil in order

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for it to produce a crop the next year.

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Because the next plants you put on that soil are going to have to take up these nutrients.

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Well, how do you put that back?

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In conventional agriculture, you use chemical fertilizers because they're cheap and easy

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to produce.

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And obviously in the organic world, we don't want to do that.

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So what do we have to do?

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We put compost on the soil.

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It's all about compost.

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And what is compost?

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Compost is plants and animals that have broken down and when they break down, what you're

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left with are those micronutrients and minerals that your plants are going to need to grow

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again.

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Okay.

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All the nutrients we have in the world right now is the same.

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We started with thousands and thousands of years ago.

238
00:14:30,540 --> 00:14:35,260
It's not like the world's creating new nutrients and stuff.

239
00:14:35,260 --> 00:14:37,340
We have a set of limited amounts.

240
00:14:37,340 --> 00:14:39,500
And so you're constantly recycling them.

241
00:14:39,500 --> 00:14:44,700
And so when you take plants out of your garden, when you take grass clippings and leaves and

242
00:14:44,700 --> 00:14:50,540
mulch and all those things and you put it together in a compost bin and it breaks down

243
00:14:50,540 --> 00:14:55,420
and it makes compost, you take that and you put it back into your soil and that's what

244
00:14:55,420 --> 00:14:57,500
grows healthy plants.

245
00:14:57,500 --> 00:15:00,660
And so it's all about the soil.

246
00:15:00,660 --> 00:15:02,540
Well, thank you.

247
00:15:02,540 --> 00:15:07,140
I know you could probably do like a whole 20 hour course just on soil with what your

248
00:15:07,140 --> 00:15:08,700
experiences have been.

249
00:15:08,700 --> 00:15:15,020
So thank you for attempting to consolidate that a little bit for us.

250
00:15:15,020 --> 00:15:24,020
And so that first garden that you had back in 2007, 2009, that was based on the New Square

251
00:15:24,020 --> 00:15:29,980
Foot Gardener, that book you just mentioned by Mel Bartholomew, I believe.

252
00:15:29,980 --> 00:15:34,780
And that soil, it looks like you started with a third compost, a third vermiculite and a

253
00:15:34,780 --> 00:15:37,180
third topsoil.

254
00:15:37,180 --> 00:15:40,620
And it's, I believe, peat moss.

255
00:15:40,620 --> 00:15:41,620
Okay.

256
00:15:41,620 --> 00:15:42,620
And compost.

257
00:15:42,620 --> 00:15:46,620
Peat moss, vermiculite and compost.

258
00:15:46,620 --> 00:15:47,700
Okay.

259
00:15:47,700 --> 00:15:50,860
And you purchased those items, correct?

260
00:15:50,860 --> 00:15:52,700
I did, yeah.

261
00:15:52,700 --> 00:15:57,260
And so how many beds did you have for that first garden?

262
00:15:57,260 --> 00:16:01,660
You know, like how much, what was the square footage at first?

263
00:16:01,660 --> 00:16:06,420
And do you have a rough sense of what the cost of that was for that approach?

264
00:16:06,420 --> 00:16:07,420
We do, yeah.

265
00:16:07,420 --> 00:16:11,140
So I've always kept really good notes through all my gardening, just like I said, I'm a student

266
00:16:11,140 --> 00:16:12,140
at gardening.

267
00:16:12,140 --> 00:16:18,220
And so when we started that first garden, we had four beds and it cost over $700 to build

268
00:16:18,220 --> 00:16:19,220
these four beds.

269
00:16:19,220 --> 00:16:23,260
And we had each about four foot by eight foot, and then we had, we had two beds that were

270
00:16:23,260 --> 00:16:25,740
four by eight, two beds that were four by 16.

271
00:16:25,740 --> 00:16:27,820
So four by 12 on average.

272
00:16:27,820 --> 00:16:31,740
And it cost over $750 to fill those four beds.

273
00:16:31,740 --> 00:16:32,740
Okay.

274
00:16:32,740 --> 00:16:33,740
Yeah.

275
00:16:33,740 --> 00:16:35,140
So a lot of that was the soil cost then.

276
00:16:35,140 --> 00:16:36,500
Oh, a huge part of it.

277
00:16:36,500 --> 00:16:39,860
And then at that time also, we were building the frames on the beds.

278
00:16:39,860 --> 00:16:43,700
And so when we did a raised bed, we had the wooden frames around as well.

279
00:16:43,700 --> 00:16:46,100
So that was quite a bit of an added cost.

280
00:16:46,100 --> 00:16:47,100
Yeah.

281
00:16:47,100 --> 00:16:48,100
Great.

282
00:16:48,100 --> 00:16:51,380
So what were the benefits and the challenges of that approach?

283
00:16:51,380 --> 00:16:55,460
Because I know a lot of people talk about doing raised beds.

284
00:16:55,460 --> 00:16:59,260
And it's interesting to me that you started with that and then you've gone away from that.

285
00:16:59,260 --> 00:17:02,220
So pros and cons, curious.

286
00:17:02,220 --> 00:17:03,220
Sure.

287
00:17:03,220 --> 00:17:07,580
So some of the pros are that you can plant in it right away, like that day.

288
00:17:07,580 --> 00:17:10,100
Another pro is that you can go buy all the components.

289
00:17:10,100 --> 00:17:11,900
And for some people, that's a blessing.

290
00:17:11,900 --> 00:17:15,740
So they want to be able to go to the store and buy all this stuff instead of waiting

291
00:17:15,740 --> 00:17:18,740
to create it themselves.

292
00:17:18,740 --> 00:17:21,460
Some of the cons, it was very light.

293
00:17:21,460 --> 00:17:25,740
And so because of the vermiculite and the peat moss, it was a very light soil.

294
00:17:25,740 --> 00:17:31,340
And I feel like we lost some of it due to lint erosion.

295
00:17:31,340 --> 00:17:34,300
And we get these great big cracks in our clay soil.

296
00:17:34,300 --> 00:17:37,540
And I swear some of it's gone away into these cracks.

297
00:17:37,540 --> 00:17:39,980
And it's really funny because they always say that you can amend soils.

298
00:17:39,980 --> 00:17:44,820
If you're there long enough and you put all this organic matter onto your soil that you

299
00:17:44,820 --> 00:17:45,820
can amend it.

300
00:17:45,820 --> 00:17:48,500
And that has not been true in my case.

301
00:17:48,500 --> 00:17:53,980
Because if you dig down six inches in our garden, you hit solid clay.

302
00:17:53,980 --> 00:18:00,300
And it has not changed at all in the 12 years that we've been gardening here in Plum.

303
00:18:00,300 --> 00:18:07,340
So I really am a firm believer in going up, no matter where you're at, just build up with

304
00:18:07,340 --> 00:18:09,780
good soil.

305
00:18:09,780 --> 00:18:15,580
So it sounds like some of the, that's interesting that you invested all this money in it.

306
00:18:15,580 --> 00:18:20,060
And then you felt like you lost some of your precious soil because it blew away.

307
00:18:20,060 --> 00:18:26,060
If you live somewhere like in Albuquerque, where I live or anywhere in this area, we

308
00:18:26,060 --> 00:18:28,020
have these huge winds in the spring.

309
00:18:28,020 --> 00:18:31,380
And so you could literally like watch all that money blow up.

310
00:18:31,380 --> 00:18:33,580
So you wouldn't want to do that.

311
00:18:33,580 --> 00:18:34,580
Okay.

312
00:18:34,580 --> 00:18:35,580
So good to know.

313
00:18:35,580 --> 00:18:41,220
What was your harvest like with that soil, with that system, in terms of quantity and

314
00:18:41,220 --> 00:18:42,220
quality?

315
00:18:42,220 --> 00:18:44,180
It was beautiful soil.

316
00:18:44,180 --> 00:18:45,780
It really did produce great plants.

317
00:18:45,780 --> 00:18:48,700
And so the compost is what's feeding the plants.

318
00:18:48,700 --> 00:18:52,940
The peat moss and the vermiculite, their function is just to retain water.

319
00:18:52,940 --> 00:19:01,060
And so it was a soil that had a consistent moisture content.

320
00:19:01,060 --> 00:19:02,940
It really did grow great stuff.

321
00:19:02,940 --> 00:19:06,700
I don't have, I mean, I could go through my books and tell you the exact amount that we

322
00:19:06,700 --> 00:19:11,260
were growing at that time, but it's comparable to what we're doing now.

323
00:19:11,260 --> 00:19:18,300
And what we have discovered now is that we get, if you take overall garden square footage,

324
00:19:18,300 --> 00:19:23,740
so if you had a garden that was 30 by 50, if you take that overall square footage and

325
00:19:23,740 --> 00:19:30,180
multiply it, so you'd have 1500 square feet, then you'll get about 1500 pounds of vegetables

326
00:19:30,180 --> 00:19:31,180
a year.

327
00:19:31,180 --> 00:19:34,700
So that's what we're doing now, following our methods and planted intention.

328
00:19:34,700 --> 00:19:35,700
Okay.

329
00:19:35,700 --> 00:19:38,220
So it's about a pound per square foot.

330
00:19:38,220 --> 00:19:39,220
That's correct.

331
00:19:39,220 --> 00:19:43,900
But in that calculation, you're taking into account not just where you're planting, but

332
00:19:43,900 --> 00:19:45,100
your walkways as well.

333
00:19:45,100 --> 00:19:46,100
Right.

334
00:19:46,100 --> 00:19:50,620
And so it's not exactly a one to one, it's not exactly a one pound per square foot.

335
00:19:50,620 --> 00:19:54,220
So much, it's actually more like two pounds per square foot because after garden is going

336
00:19:54,220 --> 00:19:55,220
to be walkways.

337
00:19:55,220 --> 00:19:57,580
To figure out the, okay.

338
00:19:57,580 --> 00:20:03,500
But it's important to know those statistics because when I consult with people a lot of

339
00:20:03,500 --> 00:20:07,020
times, you know, they're starting with a blank slate and they want to get started.

340
00:20:07,020 --> 00:20:12,060
I work with people all the time, also on, they've already built a garden and I come

341
00:20:12,060 --> 00:20:15,060
in and try to help them make it more manageable.

342
00:20:15,060 --> 00:20:17,180
And they've always overbuilt it.

343
00:20:17,180 --> 00:20:22,860
And one of the things I'm very passionate about is building a garden that fits your needs.

344
00:20:22,860 --> 00:20:27,820
Because having enough is a blessing, but having too much as a burden as well.

345
00:20:27,820 --> 00:20:30,580
Because you feel this need to do something with it.

346
00:20:30,580 --> 00:20:35,380
I don't grow all this food out here so I can feed it to my chickens if I have too much.

347
00:20:35,380 --> 00:20:37,180
It's very intentional.

348
00:20:37,180 --> 00:20:38,980
Everything we do is very intentional.

349
00:20:38,980 --> 00:20:43,220
And so if we're consulting with a family of four, then you have to look at like what

350
00:20:43,220 --> 00:20:49,460
the average person eats per pound of vegetables per year, which is about a two to 400 pounds.

351
00:20:49,460 --> 00:20:53,460
And then you do the math and that's the size of garden you built.

352
00:20:53,460 --> 00:20:56,780
Because you want to keep it small enough that you can manage it.

353
00:20:56,780 --> 00:21:01,380
So I want to anchor these points because they seem like more like golden or whatever pearls

354
00:21:01,380 --> 00:21:07,020
of wisdom that you want to start with a number of people that you have.

355
00:21:07,020 --> 00:21:11,940
And you said people typically, this is an adult, I would guess eats, did you say 400

356
00:21:11,940 --> 00:21:12,940
to 800 pounds?

357
00:21:12,940 --> 00:21:18,180
It's two to 400 pounds per year.

358
00:21:18,180 --> 00:21:27,460
And so that would be maximum 400 square feet, including the walkways per person.

359
00:21:27,460 --> 00:21:28,460
That's right.

360
00:21:28,460 --> 00:21:32,380
So if you had a family of four and you used, let's say we used the average of 300 pounds

361
00:21:32,380 --> 00:21:36,020
per person, maybe you have two adults and two children or something, then you would

362
00:21:36,020 --> 00:21:41,980
have to build a garden that was 1200 square feet to feed them for the entire year.

363
00:21:41,980 --> 00:21:44,820
And so that's a 30 by 40 garden.

364
00:21:44,820 --> 00:21:45,820
Okay.

365
00:21:45,820 --> 00:21:47,500
So this is really important to know.

366
00:21:47,500 --> 00:21:52,580
And of course, people in the beginning might not be getting that yield, but once you get

367
00:21:52,580 --> 00:21:53,780
going along.

368
00:21:53,780 --> 00:21:59,740
And then also the other thing I, you said that I think is so important is the importance

369
00:21:59,740 --> 00:22:04,260
of having sufficient pathways.

370
00:22:04,260 --> 00:22:10,580
So I want to move on down to your next garden because I think that one was the one where

371
00:22:10,580 --> 00:22:14,460
you started to build in bigger pathways.

372
00:22:14,460 --> 00:22:15,460
Is that right?

373
00:22:15,460 --> 00:22:17,300
The second garden that you had?

374
00:22:17,300 --> 00:22:22,580
That was based on the documentary or the teachings in the documentary back to Eden

375
00:22:22,580 --> 00:22:23,580
by Paul Gouchi.

376
00:22:23,580 --> 00:22:24,580
Gouchi.

377
00:22:24,580 --> 00:22:26,140
Gouchi, is that how you say it?

378
00:22:26,140 --> 00:22:27,140
That's correct.

379
00:22:27,140 --> 00:22:28,140
Okay.

380
00:22:28,140 --> 00:22:32,540
And so that garden, you started using more mulch, right?

381
00:22:32,540 --> 00:22:36,980
To retain the soil and the water in the, in the garden.

382
00:22:36,980 --> 00:22:38,820
And so can you tell us about that one?

383
00:22:38,820 --> 00:22:42,700
Cause that, that was like your next big iteration.

384
00:22:42,700 --> 00:22:46,420
And so when we moved from town to plum, we went from two beds to four beds.

385
00:22:46,420 --> 00:22:49,180
And then the next year we went from four beds to eight beds.

386
00:22:49,180 --> 00:22:51,100
And then we went from eight to 16.

387
00:22:51,100 --> 00:22:55,700
And when we were getting to ready to go from that eight to 16, and we weren't building

388
00:22:55,700 --> 00:22:58,260
separate gardens, we were expanding our current garden.

389
00:22:58,260 --> 00:23:03,260
Cause when we got to our property, we, my husband and I are both land surveyors.

390
00:23:03,260 --> 00:23:05,020
And so we map everything.

391
00:23:05,020 --> 00:23:09,420
We designed our garden in a way that we could start in one part of the art and expand in

392
00:23:09,420 --> 00:23:10,420
the future.

393
00:23:10,420 --> 00:23:13,100
And I do encourage people to keep that in mind as well.

394
00:23:13,100 --> 00:23:16,300
Cause I've helped people who they'll build their gardens, some little back corner of

395
00:23:16,300 --> 00:23:18,540
their yard, and they can expand it.

396
00:23:18,540 --> 00:23:22,420
And I always tell people to start small, get excited, decide if this is your passion or

397
00:23:22,420 --> 00:23:23,420
not.

398
00:23:23,420 --> 00:23:27,060
Like, is this your thing that you want to hone in on and then expand after that.

399
00:23:27,060 --> 00:23:30,380
And so when we were ready to expand, we were going to double what we had.

400
00:23:30,380 --> 00:23:34,220
And it was too cost prohibitive to continue with the Mel's mix method.

401
00:23:34,220 --> 00:23:40,340
And so right about that time we discovered this fabulous documentary and we incorporated

402
00:23:40,340 --> 00:23:42,540
that when we expanded our garden.

403
00:23:42,540 --> 00:23:44,380
And so a couple of key things that we did.

404
00:23:44,380 --> 00:23:47,300
One, we didn't build any more sides to our beds.

405
00:23:47,300 --> 00:23:52,740
We decided that instead of spending all that money on the infrastructure to keep our raised

406
00:23:52,740 --> 00:23:58,380
beds, to keep that good soil contains, we would just raise the whole garden.

407
00:23:58,380 --> 00:24:02,900
And so I want to point out that it only takes six inches of good soil to grow anything.

408
00:24:02,900 --> 00:24:03,900
And I'm talking anything.

409
00:24:03,900 --> 00:24:05,900
Another pearl of wisdom here.

410
00:24:05,900 --> 00:24:06,900
Yeah.

411
00:24:06,900 --> 00:24:11,060
And so people think they need all this soil and you really don't, you really need six

412
00:24:11,060 --> 00:24:12,700
inches of good soil.

413
00:24:12,700 --> 00:24:19,100
And so it was actually cheaper to, so that the area that we were expanding was 36 feet

414
00:24:19,100 --> 00:24:20,980
by about 40 feet.

415
00:24:20,980 --> 00:24:25,420
And it was cheaper to just raise that whole area than it was to buy all the wood to build

416
00:24:25,420 --> 00:24:29,500
the beds and then fill the beds and then fill in the walkways in between.

417
00:24:29,500 --> 00:24:36,940
And so that's when we decided to, again, we didn't till we had this great big patch of

418
00:24:36,940 --> 00:24:39,940
grass that we were going to turn into garden.

419
00:24:39,940 --> 00:24:45,500
And my kids were helping me and because we were going to till we had to do something about

420
00:24:45,500 --> 00:24:46,500
the grass.

421
00:24:46,500 --> 00:24:51,180
So because we live in Texas, we do get to garden year round, which is a huge blessing.

422
00:24:51,180 --> 00:24:54,260
But the biggest burden we ever had to deal with is grass.

423
00:24:54,260 --> 00:25:00,380
We have this grass that these ridiculously deep, 12 to 13 foot deep roots that is so

424
00:25:00,380 --> 00:25:02,820
difficult to get rid of.

425
00:25:02,820 --> 00:25:06,740
And when we had built our original garden, we had all these beautiful raised beds, but

426
00:25:06,740 --> 00:25:11,140
we had this grass growing between them and it was constantly getting in the beds and

427
00:25:11,140 --> 00:25:12,780
it was so much work.

428
00:25:12,780 --> 00:25:19,100
I spent more time dealing with my walkways than I ever did reading my beds or doing anything

429
00:25:19,100 --> 00:25:20,100
else in the garden.

430
00:25:20,100 --> 00:25:22,460
And it was because of this grass.

431
00:25:22,460 --> 00:25:28,780
And so when we expanded the second time, we put down a newspaper and then cardboard and

432
00:25:28,780 --> 00:25:31,660
then we covered it with a third.

433
00:25:31,660 --> 00:25:36,220
And when I say a third, we went, we went at nine inches because we knew as the soil broke

434
00:25:36,220 --> 00:25:39,100
down, it would contact down to the six inches.

435
00:25:39,100 --> 00:25:46,540
So we did three inches of topsoil, three inches of compost and three inches of mulch.

436
00:25:46,540 --> 00:25:48,380
And we started growing in that.

437
00:25:48,380 --> 00:25:52,620
And so I bet you're going to want to know the pros and cons of that method.

438
00:25:52,620 --> 00:25:54,100
I would love to know.

439
00:25:54,100 --> 00:25:59,140
And also part of what I thought was really important when I looked at your book was a

440
00:25:59,140 --> 00:26:06,180
lot of people use cardboard, but the fact that you use the wet newspaper under the cardboard

441
00:26:06,180 --> 00:26:10,900
seems like this is a, you know, another like golden tip.

442
00:26:10,900 --> 00:26:13,540
Yeah, we call them light bulb moments at our house.

443
00:26:13,540 --> 00:26:14,540
Yeah.

444
00:26:14,540 --> 00:26:16,340
They're really, they're so simple.

445
00:26:16,340 --> 00:26:20,300
And so I do want to touch on that real quick because this is something that's really pivotal.

446
00:26:20,300 --> 00:26:22,220
I mean, pivotal.

447
00:26:22,220 --> 00:26:25,700
So a lot of people think they just gonna, they're just going to put cardboard down because

448
00:26:25,700 --> 00:26:31,140
they, they're just thinking about smothering that grass or whatever's underneath the cardboard.

449
00:26:31,140 --> 00:26:32,540
And that's true.

450
00:26:32,540 --> 00:26:36,140
If you're dealing with Bermuda grass, like we have here in Texas, that Bermuda grass

451
00:26:36,140 --> 00:26:40,820
is just going to sit there and hibernate until that cardboard breaks down and then it's

452
00:26:40,820 --> 00:26:42,500
going to start growing again.

453
00:26:42,500 --> 00:26:46,220
So what's really key is, is we go out there with a wheat eater and we get the grass as

454
00:26:46,220 --> 00:26:48,780
low of the ground as we possibly can.

455
00:26:48,780 --> 00:26:52,700
And then we put the newspaper on top of that and we get it soaking wet because when you

456
00:26:52,700 --> 00:26:57,900
do that, then the newspaper collapses and it adheres to the ground and you've taken

457
00:26:57,900 --> 00:27:01,900
out all those air pockets so the grass is going to suffocate.

458
00:27:01,900 --> 00:27:06,660
Then you put your cardboard on top of that and really that's just more, it's really

459
00:27:06,660 --> 00:27:11,700
protecting the newspaper from breaking down rather than smothering anything.

460
00:27:11,700 --> 00:27:16,660
And then on top of that, you put all your soil and I'm telling you that, that key thing

461
00:27:16,660 --> 00:27:23,060
right there is probably the biggest takeaway I've learned since we started.

462
00:27:23,060 --> 00:27:27,940
And we kind of learned it by accident because somebody wasn't following instructions from

463
00:27:27,940 --> 00:27:31,820
my little crew of helpers and they did it like I thought it was supposed to be cardboard

464
00:27:31,820 --> 00:27:32,820
first.

465
00:27:32,820 --> 00:27:34,940
And we did that and somebody else did it.

466
00:27:34,940 --> 00:27:40,100
And when we looked at it and when we analyzed it and we saw that the section they were doing

467
00:27:40,100 --> 00:27:44,940
like was handling the grass better, we realized like you're really onto something.

468
00:27:44,940 --> 00:27:50,260
And so like I said, student, a gardening, trial and error is everything that we do here.

469
00:27:50,260 --> 00:27:51,260
That's really funny.

470
00:27:51,260 --> 00:27:58,220
And now I have a very mundane question, but in this age of digital information, where

471
00:27:58,220 --> 00:27:59,900
do you get all this newspapers?

472
00:27:59,900 --> 00:28:03,860
Oh, you know, it's actually a very beautiful thing.

473
00:28:03,860 --> 00:28:07,940
This gardening method is the best friend of the County Recycle Center.

474
00:28:07,940 --> 00:28:12,100
I mean, our county, I can get everything I need to build my garden from the County Recycle

475
00:28:12,100 --> 00:28:13,100
Center.

476
00:28:13,100 --> 00:28:18,900
But if you don't have a County Recycle Center that takes newspaper, then you can call newspapers

477
00:28:18,900 --> 00:28:23,700
and they often have unsold past issues that they're happy to unload.

478
00:28:23,700 --> 00:28:28,940
So our county, our town newspaper takes all the bundles of their old papers to the Recycle

479
00:28:28,940 --> 00:28:29,940
Center.

480
00:28:29,940 --> 00:28:34,980
So I can literally go there and just get stacks and stacks of pre-bundled newspaper.

481
00:28:34,980 --> 00:28:37,620
People always ask me about the chemicals in the newspaper.

482
00:28:37,620 --> 00:28:39,380
It's from an organic approach.

483
00:28:39,380 --> 00:28:41,580
It is an accepted organic approach.

484
00:28:41,580 --> 00:28:46,020
And most chemicals, almost all chemicals now used in newspapers are soy based and not chemical

485
00:28:46,020 --> 00:28:47,020
based.

486
00:28:47,020 --> 00:28:48,700
And so they're still plant based.

487
00:28:48,700 --> 00:28:50,260
So that's wonderful.

488
00:28:50,260 --> 00:28:56,940
I did a garden once where we were teaching classes for the community and we had this

489
00:28:56,940 --> 00:29:04,420
huge pallet of cardboard donated by Whole Foods at the time because they get all of their...

490
00:29:04,420 --> 00:29:08,820
So this, if you don't have a County Recycle Center that has a lot of cardboard, you could

491
00:29:08,820 --> 00:29:11,980
think about a big box store or big...

492
00:29:11,980 --> 00:29:16,740
Reach out to any grocery store, any appliance store.

493
00:29:16,740 --> 00:29:23,500
So I think it's beautiful that we can take these things that are looking to be recycled

494
00:29:23,500 --> 00:29:25,340
and we can turn them into soil.

495
00:29:25,340 --> 00:29:26,780
And guess what worms eat?

496
00:29:26,780 --> 00:29:30,780
I mean, everybody knows that worms are an indication of your soil health.

497
00:29:30,780 --> 00:29:32,780
Worms eat newspaper.

498
00:29:32,780 --> 00:29:38,100
And so by having the newspaper there to smother the grass, you're also inviting all the worms.

499
00:29:38,100 --> 00:29:40,300
Feeding your worms, that's wonderful.

500
00:29:40,300 --> 00:29:46,460
Now another thing that I thought was very critical was that you've gone through an evolution

501
00:29:46,460 --> 00:29:54,380
not just with your soil, not just with your types of beds, but also with your fencing.

502
00:29:54,380 --> 00:30:02,340
And for anywhere that's rural especially, protecting against the predators becomes essential.

503
00:30:02,340 --> 00:30:08,420
So could you describe that a little bit and maybe just for the sake of time with the method

504
00:30:08,420 --> 00:30:10,980
that you ended up with and why?

505
00:30:10,980 --> 00:30:11,980
Yeah.

506
00:30:11,980 --> 00:30:17,020
So we started with Fast and Cheap and we really paid for it in the end.

507
00:30:17,020 --> 00:30:22,060
Never use chicken wire to fence anything ever is all I'll say about that.

508
00:30:22,060 --> 00:30:28,460
In the end, we ended up building a field wire fence that had two inch by three inch squares.

509
00:30:28,460 --> 00:30:32,460
It's polycoated, so it's hopefully not going to break down as fast because we've really

510
00:30:32,460 --> 00:30:37,100
had a bad experience with chicken wire breaking down and rusting and causing having holes

511
00:30:37,100 --> 00:30:39,580
in it.

512
00:30:39,580 --> 00:30:40,700
And we were really lucky.

513
00:30:40,700 --> 00:30:46,220
Anytime you have to stretch field wire, you have to build H braces and it can become a

514
00:30:46,220 --> 00:30:48,900
very complicated process.

515
00:30:48,900 --> 00:30:51,060
I can drive a T-post all day long.

516
00:30:51,060 --> 00:30:55,740
I cannot dig a four foot post hole in my clay soil.

517
00:30:55,740 --> 00:30:57,660
It would be a lot of work.

518
00:30:57,660 --> 00:30:59,260
And I do almost all of our gardening.

519
00:30:59,260 --> 00:31:00,260
Me or my children.

520
00:31:00,260 --> 00:31:06,740
And so I always wanted to develop methods that were female friendly because in a lot of times

521
00:31:06,740 --> 00:31:09,660
in places, it's the women doing this work.

522
00:31:09,660 --> 00:31:13,220
And I know a lot of people that got into home studying and they're so frustrating because

523
00:31:13,220 --> 00:31:16,540
their husbands have other things that they're interested in doing and the garden is not

524
00:31:16,540 --> 00:31:17,540
one of them.

525
00:31:17,540 --> 00:31:20,900
And so I'm very happy to have found something that I could do myself.

526
00:31:20,900 --> 00:31:25,500
And so we used T-posts and we found a system called the wedge lock system.

527
00:31:25,500 --> 00:31:29,420
And it's just these little clips that you can put on a T-post and you can basically build

528
00:31:29,420 --> 00:31:31,420
an H brace that way.

529
00:31:31,420 --> 00:31:33,820
And it's very easy to use.

530
00:31:33,820 --> 00:31:36,220
Once we had the H braces up, it was very easy.

531
00:31:36,220 --> 00:31:41,260
We just took two 2x4s and clamped them together to make a fence stretcher.

532
00:31:41,260 --> 00:31:45,540
And I put a chain around it and hook it to my band and hold it.

533
00:31:45,540 --> 00:31:48,260
And we could tie off the fence to the T-post.

534
00:31:48,260 --> 00:31:53,500
And so we were able to build a really nice six foot tall fence very easily, just my children

535
00:31:53,500 --> 00:31:56,020
and I.

536
00:31:56,020 --> 00:32:00,580
Do you already have a video on your website about your fence building?

537
00:32:00,580 --> 00:32:02,940
We have the footage and we have the pictures.

538
00:32:02,940 --> 00:32:04,860
I just haven't put it all together yet.

539
00:32:04,860 --> 00:32:05,860
Yeah.

540
00:32:05,860 --> 00:32:10,860
There's a lot of really great content for our website that we don't have up yet.

541
00:32:10,860 --> 00:32:16,140
But the fence building is one also our compost area because like I said before, compost is

542
00:32:16,140 --> 00:32:17,140
the key.

543
00:32:17,140 --> 00:32:20,020
The best is the key to all of your garden success.

544
00:32:20,020 --> 00:32:25,300
And we learned a lot about compost along the way.

545
00:32:25,300 --> 00:32:30,860
And so we did have to go through last year and completely redesign and rebuild our compost

546
00:32:30,860 --> 00:32:31,860
area.

547
00:32:31,860 --> 00:32:37,860
And so I'd really like to get those pictures together to encapsulate all that we've learned

548
00:32:37,860 --> 00:32:41,340
just on compost alone and the best ways to build it.

549
00:32:41,340 --> 00:32:44,820
Well, even the pictures in your book, I had compost bin envy when I was...

550
00:32:44,820 --> 00:32:45,820
Yeah.

551
00:32:45,820 --> 00:32:47,380
You should see our new ones.

552
00:32:47,380 --> 00:32:48,380
Yeah.

553
00:32:48,380 --> 00:32:50,100
I can't wait to see those.

554
00:32:50,100 --> 00:32:51,100
Yeah.

555
00:32:51,100 --> 00:32:55,660
And one of the tips in your book that I liked about the fence posts was it's a whole lot

556
00:32:55,660 --> 00:33:03,940
easier to whack a fence post down deeper than it is to pull it out if you hit it in too

557
00:33:03,940 --> 00:33:04,940
far at first.

558
00:33:04,940 --> 00:33:05,940
Yeah.

559
00:33:05,940 --> 00:33:06,940
Yeah.

560
00:33:06,940 --> 00:33:07,940
Yeah.

561
00:33:07,940 --> 00:33:11,180
That's funny that you cut onto that just trying to get them all the same kind of stuff.

562
00:33:11,180 --> 00:33:12,660
I really like a clean garden.

563
00:33:12,660 --> 00:33:15,340
I like things looking clean and looking neat.

564
00:33:15,340 --> 00:33:20,220
So all of those little things become important.

565
00:33:20,220 --> 00:33:24,140
You don't want to look out there and see a fence with T-plos going all over the place.

566
00:33:24,140 --> 00:33:27,140
Well, I imagine also if you're a land surveyor that you...

567
00:33:27,140 --> 00:33:28,140
I do.

568
00:33:28,140 --> 00:33:30,300
I have an affinity for straight lines.

569
00:33:30,300 --> 00:33:31,300
It's a geometry.

570
00:33:31,300 --> 00:33:34,220
You're a geometry person.

571
00:33:34,220 --> 00:33:38,900
So in 2019, you expanded your garden again.

572
00:33:38,900 --> 00:33:44,380
And this time it became 32 feet by 110 feet, I believe, which is...

573
00:33:44,380 --> 00:33:50,860
I did the math, 3,520 square feet, which is just under a tenth of an acre.

574
00:33:50,860 --> 00:33:56,100
And I understand that you decided to use 100% country mulch that you had delivered from

575
00:33:56,100 --> 00:33:57,100
a local vendor.

576
00:33:57,100 --> 00:34:05,040
And there's a great picture of your kid standing on top of that load, that delivery of mulch.

577
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:11,180
So can you explain about mulch and this question about whether mulch then needs to become composted

578
00:34:11,180 --> 00:34:14,620
and how long that takes and how you do that.

579
00:34:14,620 --> 00:34:21,580
If you buy it and you set aside this bed somewhere on top of your wet newspaper and your cardboard

580
00:34:21,580 --> 00:34:25,940
with your mulch on top and then you just leave it there for a year and water it, or how does

581
00:34:25,940 --> 00:34:26,940
that work?

582
00:34:26,940 --> 00:34:27,940
Yeah, okay.

583
00:34:27,940 --> 00:34:28,940
So that's a lot to unpack.

584
00:34:28,940 --> 00:34:29,940
You have a lot of questions there.

585
00:34:29,940 --> 00:34:30,940
Yeah, sorry.

586
00:34:30,940 --> 00:34:35,580
I'm going to back up to our second expansion real quick and talk about the benefits and

587
00:34:35,580 --> 00:34:41,060
downsides to the mix that we used of the compost, topsoil and mulch.

588
00:34:41,060 --> 00:34:42,060
Okay.

589
00:34:42,060 --> 00:34:45,260
So mulch is really great at water retention.

590
00:34:45,260 --> 00:34:50,020
And one of the things I mentioned before about how it's all about returning those micronutrients

591
00:34:50,020 --> 00:34:51,780
and minerals to the soil.

592
00:34:51,780 --> 00:34:58,180
So trees have this wonderful ability, these deep tap roots to reach way down in the soil

593
00:34:58,180 --> 00:35:02,660
and pull up nutrients that we just can't access in the top layers of our soil.

594
00:35:02,660 --> 00:35:05,380
And those people soils are very depleted.

595
00:35:05,380 --> 00:35:10,620
So I'm sure you've heard like if you compared an apple now to an apple like 100 years ago,

596
00:35:10,620 --> 00:35:14,300
it takes one apple from 100 years ago to equal a hundred from nowadays.

597
00:35:14,300 --> 00:35:15,300
Wow.

598
00:35:15,300 --> 00:35:17,740
Because the mineral content is just not there anymore.

599
00:35:17,740 --> 00:35:22,980
And that two to 400 pound average that people eat, that's considering you're eating nutritious

600
00:35:22,980 --> 00:35:23,980
food.

601
00:35:23,980 --> 00:35:27,580
You know, if you're eating a bunch of vegetables that are nutritionally dead, you're going

602
00:35:27,580 --> 00:35:28,580
to have to double that.

603
00:35:28,580 --> 00:35:29,580
Right.

604
00:35:29,580 --> 00:35:33,500
And so for us, it's always been about creating very nutrient dense food.

605
00:35:33,500 --> 00:35:37,820
And so we want the most nutrients in our soil when we're growing our crops.

606
00:35:37,820 --> 00:35:41,220
And so that second garden, we have the compost, which was feeding it.

607
00:35:41,220 --> 00:35:46,340
We had the mulch, which was going to break down into compost because the only difference

608
00:35:46,340 --> 00:35:48,660
between mulching compost is six months.

609
00:35:48,660 --> 00:35:49,660
Oh, wow.

610
00:35:49,660 --> 00:35:53,300
So mulch is going to become compost, but it's like a slow feeding.

611
00:35:53,300 --> 00:35:56,660
It's like a, it's like a time released vitamin if you would.

612
00:35:56,660 --> 00:35:57,660
Okay.

613
00:35:57,660 --> 00:36:01,900
And then the other part that we had was top soil in that blend.

614
00:36:01,900 --> 00:36:02,980
And I don't know why we did that.

615
00:36:02,980 --> 00:36:06,460
We did that because we thought we needed to have soil.

616
00:36:06,460 --> 00:36:07,580
I wouldn't do it again.

617
00:36:07,580 --> 00:36:11,860
I wouldn't buy soil because typically when you're buying top soil, it's almost dead.

618
00:36:11,860 --> 00:36:12,860
Okay.

619
00:36:12,860 --> 00:36:16,260
Like it's already almost had most of its nutrients taken out of this.

620
00:36:16,260 --> 00:36:17,260
Wow.

621
00:36:17,260 --> 00:36:18,260
That's a good tip.

622
00:36:18,260 --> 00:36:19,260
And I bet it's expensive.

623
00:36:19,260 --> 00:36:20,260
It is.

624
00:36:20,260 --> 00:36:23,700
Well, it's less expensive than compost for some reason.

625
00:36:23,700 --> 00:36:28,100
Typically, just depending on where you are, we're close to several mushroom farms.

626
00:36:28,100 --> 00:36:32,460
And so you can always get mushroom compost around here because when, when mushroom growers

627
00:36:32,460 --> 00:36:37,300
grow on the strata that they use, they can only use it once and then they have to filter

628
00:36:37,300 --> 00:36:38,540
out and get new.

629
00:36:38,540 --> 00:36:42,940
So it's, it's actually really easy to get large amounts of compost around here, but

630
00:36:42,940 --> 00:36:44,380
I wouldn't do that again.

631
00:36:44,380 --> 00:36:48,420
And so the third time we expanded our garden, I was doing a giant experiment.

632
00:36:48,420 --> 00:36:53,980
And so we went at the time that we expanded our garden was already about 30 by 60.

633
00:36:53,980 --> 00:36:57,900
So we expanded again to create that 410 feet.

634
00:36:57,900 --> 00:37:01,300
It was like 30 by 40 or 50.

635
00:37:01,300 --> 00:37:04,700
I just can't remember the rough numbers, but it was basically taking what we've already

636
00:37:04,700 --> 00:37:06,540
had and totally doubling it.

637
00:37:06,540 --> 00:37:08,780
It was a large area.

638
00:37:08,780 --> 00:37:16,340
So back up a second, when we did the first garden $750 for those four beds, $750 again

639
00:37:16,340 --> 00:37:17,340
to double it.

640
00:37:17,340 --> 00:37:18,340
Okay.

641
00:37:18,340 --> 00:37:19,340
That's a lot of money.

642
00:37:19,340 --> 00:37:20,340
$1,500.

643
00:37:20,340 --> 00:37:25,020
When we did the second garden, we were able to do it for like $800.

644
00:37:25,020 --> 00:37:26,020
Okay.

645
00:37:26,020 --> 00:37:28,580
All the soil components that we bought.

646
00:37:28,580 --> 00:37:36,060
When we did the third garden, which was double everything that we already had, we did $350

647
00:37:36,060 --> 00:37:38,060
for the most that we used.

648
00:37:38,060 --> 00:37:40,940
And so our county, again, our county recycling center has-

649
00:37:40,940 --> 00:37:41,940
Wow.

650
00:37:41,940 --> 00:37:45,700
So you doubled it and you doubled the size, but you halved the cost.

651
00:37:45,700 --> 00:37:46,700
Absolutely.

652
00:37:46,700 --> 00:37:47,700
Yeah.

653
00:37:47,700 --> 00:37:51,820
And so our county has this fabulous recycling program where the people in town, when they

654
00:37:51,820 --> 00:37:56,060
trim trees and stuff, the city will go around and pick it up and they'll take it to the

655
00:37:56,060 --> 00:37:57,300
county recycling center.

656
00:37:57,300 --> 00:38:01,140
And then the recycling center grinds it into most.

657
00:38:01,140 --> 00:38:05,220
And so it's very easy for us to get $5 a yard.

658
00:38:05,220 --> 00:38:09,780
You'll just fill up your pickup truck, $5 a yard, all the mulch you want.

659
00:38:09,780 --> 00:38:14,140
And what's really nice about that is that you're actually getting treats.

660
00:38:14,140 --> 00:38:21,140
So if you buy bag mulch, you're probably getting chopped up pallets, chopped up furniture,

661
00:38:21,140 --> 00:38:25,580
chopped up who knows what, that has all kinds of chemicals in it.

662
00:38:25,580 --> 00:38:28,060
And then they dye it all to be the same color.

663
00:38:28,060 --> 00:38:29,060
Yeah.

664
00:38:29,060 --> 00:38:30,060
Male to hide especially.

665
00:38:30,060 --> 00:38:32,300
And then they dye it all to be the same color.

666
00:38:32,300 --> 00:38:34,500
You don't want any of that in your garden.

667
00:38:34,500 --> 00:38:38,900
And so if you're able to source, like direct from the source, like if you see the pile

668
00:38:38,900 --> 00:38:42,540
of tree branches and you see the mulch next to it because you can see the chippers out

669
00:38:42,540 --> 00:38:46,540
there, or if you can get a tree company, a lot of places have tree, tree, many companies,

670
00:38:46,540 --> 00:38:51,060
any of the power line companies, if you can call them and say, Hey, come dump your loads

671
00:38:51,060 --> 00:38:55,820
at my house, then you could do this for free.

672
00:38:55,820 --> 00:38:56,820
That's a great tip.

673
00:38:56,820 --> 00:38:59,460
Another great tip, Perla wisdom.

674
00:38:59,460 --> 00:39:03,500
Get tree mulch, get it from somebody who's chipping it.

675
00:39:03,500 --> 00:39:04,500
That's right.

676
00:39:04,500 --> 00:39:09,620
And I do want to say though, the only downside, so benefits and drawbacks to this third system

677
00:39:09,620 --> 00:39:14,260
that we use for straight 100% mulch, nine inches of mulch on newspaper and cardboard.

678
00:39:14,260 --> 00:39:15,260
That's it.

679
00:39:15,260 --> 00:39:16,980
We had all the mulch delivered.

680
00:39:16,980 --> 00:39:19,660
We rented a box cat and literally two and a half hours.

681
00:39:19,660 --> 00:39:21,740
I did a farmer's market in the morning.

682
00:39:21,740 --> 00:39:25,700
We came home, spread that whole garden two and a half hours and went to a wedding that

683
00:39:25,700 --> 00:39:26,700
afternoon.

684
00:39:26,700 --> 00:39:29,780
So it was amazing how fast it went.

685
00:39:29,780 --> 00:39:33,380
The downside to it is that we couldn't plant in it for a year.

686
00:39:33,380 --> 00:39:34,380
Okay.

687
00:39:34,380 --> 00:39:36,420
And trust me, I try because I just had all this soil.

688
00:39:36,420 --> 00:39:38,140
I just thought I had to put some seeds in it.

689
00:39:38,140 --> 00:39:40,260
And my husband, he said, you know, it's not going to work.

690
00:39:40,260 --> 00:39:44,700
And he was right because the difference between mulch and compost is time.

691
00:39:44,700 --> 00:39:48,140
And so we had to allow that mulch to break down.

692
00:39:48,140 --> 00:39:49,820
It took a year for it to break down.

693
00:39:49,820 --> 00:39:54,620
And a year after that, it literally grew exactly the same as the millsmiths.

694
00:39:54,620 --> 00:39:55,620
It's production wise.

695
00:39:55,620 --> 00:39:59,700
It was, it's just beautiful, beautiful soil.

696
00:39:59,700 --> 00:40:01,420
And so good to know.

697
00:40:01,420 --> 00:40:06,900
And my sense is, and tell me if this is correct, that it also depends on how much water you

698
00:40:06,900 --> 00:40:12,500
have in the area because water is required to break down compost or mulch or anything.

699
00:40:12,500 --> 00:40:15,700
And so like where you live, it's a pretty moist area where I live.

700
00:40:15,700 --> 00:40:19,340
It's really dry that you have to water your mulch also.

701
00:40:19,340 --> 00:40:22,620
So there's different things that you could do to speed up that process.

702
00:40:22,620 --> 00:40:24,540
You could put alfalfa pellets on top.

703
00:40:24,540 --> 00:40:28,540
You want to, anything that has some source of nitrogen, if you had alfalfa hay, you

704
00:40:28,540 --> 00:40:29,860
could put that on top.

705
00:40:29,860 --> 00:40:32,460
You could put urine on top.

706
00:40:32,460 --> 00:40:36,820
You could put all sorts of things that have nitrogen in it that would help speed up that

707
00:40:36,820 --> 00:40:39,020
process if you wanted.

708
00:40:39,020 --> 00:40:41,700
Water of course helps speed up that process as well.

709
00:40:41,700 --> 00:40:45,580
We get about 40 inches on average a year of grain where I'm at.

710
00:40:45,580 --> 00:40:48,820
But one of the things I want to point out about the mulch, it's so beautiful.

711
00:40:48,820 --> 00:40:53,660
So mulch has this amazing ability to retain water.

712
00:40:53,660 --> 00:40:56,860
And I have this great factual data about that.

713
00:40:56,860 --> 00:41:00,460
So I have a neighbor behind me who had a garden half the size as me.

714
00:41:00,460 --> 00:41:04,380
And I was talking to her once and she was telling me that her, her water bill was like

715
00:41:04,380 --> 00:41:06,780
ridiculously high, hundreds of dollars.

716
00:41:06,780 --> 00:41:07,780
And I was just shocked.

717
00:41:07,780 --> 00:41:10,220
And I said, what are you doing to have such a high water bill?

718
00:41:10,220 --> 00:41:11,540
There's two of them.

719
00:41:11,540 --> 00:41:13,220
And she said, I'm watering my tomatoes.

720
00:41:13,220 --> 00:41:16,820
And I know people all around me that water twice a day in the summertime to keep their

721
00:41:16,820 --> 00:41:17,820
gardens alive.

722
00:41:17,820 --> 00:41:20,660
And at that same time, I'm watering once a week.

723
00:41:20,660 --> 00:41:24,900
And with a family of eight, our water bill was like $100 a month.

724
00:41:24,900 --> 00:41:28,660
And at the same time period, the earth was like $600 a month.

725
00:41:28,660 --> 00:41:31,180
And it's because of the mulch based garden.

726
00:41:31,180 --> 00:41:34,060
It's because that mulch naturally has this great ability.

727
00:41:34,060 --> 00:41:37,060
If it's too wet, it's going to hold on to the water.

728
00:41:37,060 --> 00:41:40,180
If it's too dry, it's going to hold on to the water.

729
00:41:40,180 --> 00:41:41,180
It's just amazing.

730
00:41:41,180 --> 00:41:42,380
I can't explain it.

731
00:41:42,380 --> 00:41:44,380
I can just tell you, I've not told it.

732
00:41:44,380 --> 00:41:46,620
It's 100% work.

733
00:41:46,620 --> 00:41:53,340
So with the garden that you have now that started with the mulch that stood for a year,

734
00:41:53,340 --> 00:41:57,020
it's the one that's been the most water efficient, it sounds like.

735
00:41:57,020 --> 00:41:58,500
Well, yeah, absolutely.

736
00:41:58,500 --> 00:41:59,500
Yeah.

737
00:41:59,500 --> 00:42:04,300
You water that melds mix and there's a component in it that holds water, the peat moss and

738
00:42:04,300 --> 00:42:07,420
the vermiculite, that really helps it.

739
00:42:07,420 --> 00:42:11,420
And then our middle garden is probably the worst at retaining water because it didn't

740
00:42:11,420 --> 00:42:12,420
have as much mulch.

741
00:42:12,420 --> 00:42:13,620
And I've amended it over the years.

742
00:42:13,620 --> 00:42:17,780
I do add compost and mulch to my garden every year.

743
00:42:17,780 --> 00:42:20,220
So you topped us since you're a no-till gardener.

744
00:42:20,220 --> 00:42:21,220
Absolutely.

745
00:42:21,220 --> 00:42:22,220
Yeah.

746
00:42:22,220 --> 00:42:23,620
I'm going to talk a little quick about the no-till thing.

747
00:42:23,620 --> 00:42:28,140
I just want everybody to understand this because I have a lot of difficulty getting

748
00:42:28,140 --> 00:42:30,500
people to understand why we don't till.

749
00:42:30,500 --> 00:42:34,380
If you look at a community, a town that's taken hundreds of years to build, right?

750
00:42:34,380 --> 00:42:38,820
And if you thought about a tornado coming through that town and destroying everything

751
00:42:38,820 --> 00:42:41,780
overnight, that's what tilling is like.

752
00:42:41,780 --> 00:42:45,860
Underneath the soil, we have this whole world, all these microorganisms and they have air

753
00:42:45,860 --> 00:42:50,620
pockets and they have interconnections and you've got fungus size, fungus, fungal, my

754
00:42:50,620 --> 00:42:54,220
zones, all kinds of things that are interconnected and talking to each other.

755
00:42:54,220 --> 00:42:59,940
And when you come through with a tiller, you wipe all that out and the whole system has

756
00:42:59,940 --> 00:43:02,700
to start building all over again.

757
00:43:02,700 --> 00:43:06,780
And so sometimes I'll talk to people who are like, they want to know what they could do

758
00:43:06,780 --> 00:43:07,780
different in their garden.

759
00:43:07,780 --> 00:43:10,260
I just tell them the first thing to do is just stop tilling.

760
00:43:10,260 --> 00:43:11,260
Right.

761
00:43:11,260 --> 00:43:15,900
It would be like if you had a forest and you went through and just ripped up all the tree

762
00:43:15,900 --> 00:43:18,500
roots and then expect the trees to survive.

763
00:43:18,500 --> 00:43:19,500
Right.

764
00:43:19,500 --> 00:43:20,500
Yeah.

765
00:43:20,500 --> 00:43:22,660
And they actually feed each other too.

766
00:43:22,660 --> 00:43:25,020
They pass nutrients back and forth through the roots.

767
00:43:25,020 --> 00:43:26,020
Yeah.

768
00:43:26,020 --> 00:43:28,700
Fast-nating studies coming out about that stuff now.

769
00:43:28,700 --> 00:43:29,700
Yeah.

770
00:43:29,700 --> 00:43:31,620
It is really incredible.

771
00:43:31,620 --> 00:43:37,700
So and I understand that now you have such a great yield that you actually sell at farmers

772
00:43:37,700 --> 00:43:38,900
markets, right?

773
00:43:38,900 --> 00:43:49,220
So you have now like 3,000 pounds a year and for your eight people in your family, you

774
00:43:49,220 --> 00:43:50,220
don't need that much.

775
00:43:50,220 --> 00:43:53,140
It's a little bit more now that I have 14 years.

776
00:43:53,140 --> 00:43:54,540
They're eating a lot more.

777
00:43:54,540 --> 00:43:59,340
But what we eat about 1,500 pounds a year, 1,000 to 1,500 pounds a year ourselves.

778
00:43:59,340 --> 00:44:03,980
And then so we have half of what we were able to sell to other people.

779
00:44:03,980 --> 00:44:08,140
And so it totally pays for our whole grocery bill, you know, the things that we still have

780
00:44:08,140 --> 00:44:10,340
to buy at the school of paper and the milk.

781
00:44:10,340 --> 00:44:12,380
I have two kids that work at a raw milk dairy.

782
00:44:12,380 --> 00:44:15,660
And so again, like you don't have to do all the things.

783
00:44:15,660 --> 00:44:19,180
You just have to know some of the other people that do.

784
00:44:19,180 --> 00:44:23,100
So it sounds like your garden is actually paying for itself with the extra.

785
00:44:23,100 --> 00:44:24,100
Yeah.

786
00:44:24,100 --> 00:44:25,580
And then so amazing.

787
00:44:25,580 --> 00:44:26,820
That's really amazing.

788
00:44:26,820 --> 00:44:27,820
Okay.

789
00:44:27,820 --> 00:44:33,700
So we've talked, I want to just because we want to not take too much of your time and

790
00:44:33,700 --> 00:44:35,060
make this too long.

791
00:44:35,060 --> 00:44:42,220
But other than these pros of wisdom that you have already shared, which I think are incredibly

792
00:44:42,220 --> 00:44:48,300
valuable and could save people at least a decade of trial and error.

793
00:44:48,300 --> 00:44:53,420
But I mean, if you, if there were one thing or two things that you wish you had known

794
00:44:53,420 --> 00:44:59,380
right from the beginning, is there anything else that we haven't stated that you wish

795
00:44:59,380 --> 00:45:01,540
you had known right from the beginning?

796
00:45:01,540 --> 00:45:02,540
Sure.

797
00:45:02,540 --> 00:45:06,420
One right from the beginning, I wish I don't, I know when you move to a new piece of property

798
00:45:06,420 --> 00:45:10,140
and you're going to homestead, you've got all these things that you have to do.

799
00:45:10,140 --> 00:45:12,980
And I tell people, number one, start your garden.

800
00:45:12,980 --> 00:45:15,260
Don't, don't even worry about fencing it.

801
00:45:15,260 --> 00:45:19,500
Go out there with your cardboard and your newspaper in your mulch and just put it down

802
00:45:19,500 --> 00:45:23,860
and then let it sit for a year while you go take care of all these other projects, because

803
00:45:23,860 --> 00:45:28,780
that's going to be the cheapest, easiest way to start a great garden with this fabulous

804
00:45:28,780 --> 00:45:30,100
soil.

805
00:45:30,100 --> 00:45:33,460
And so use time to your advantage in that situation.

806
00:45:33,460 --> 00:45:37,660
And I wish that I had known that because I would have done things differently.

807
00:45:37,660 --> 00:45:40,940
It's also very important your order of operations.

808
00:45:40,940 --> 00:45:45,860
And so if you don't put the newspaper and cardboard down first and you put your nine

809
00:45:45,860 --> 00:45:50,980
inches of soil on top of it, that's going to break down and become six.

810
00:45:50,980 --> 00:45:53,660
You just really made a lot of work for yourself.

811
00:45:53,660 --> 00:45:57,500
And I know people that have done this, like they, they didn't follow the order of operations

812
00:45:57,500 --> 00:45:59,620
that we really try to stress in the book.

813
00:45:59,620 --> 00:46:02,620
And they just created way more work for ourselves, for themselves.

814
00:46:02,620 --> 00:46:07,060
And the reason we put all that stuff in that book was because we did things wrong ourselves.

815
00:46:07,060 --> 00:46:08,620
And then we had to go back and fix it.

816
00:46:08,620 --> 00:46:13,100
And it's a lot more work to fix it rather than to do it in the right order.

817
00:46:13,100 --> 00:46:14,100
Right.

818
00:46:14,100 --> 00:46:17,260
And so it sounds like, and I'm, I'm soaking this all up because I'm, we're going to be

819
00:46:17,260 --> 00:46:22,100
starting a new homestead in the next six months.

820
00:46:22,100 --> 00:46:25,580
And I'm already thinking, well, do we truck in the soil?

821
00:46:25,580 --> 00:46:26,900
Do we this, do we that?

822
00:46:26,900 --> 00:46:29,940
And so I'm thinking that, okay, we can do two things in parallel.

823
00:46:29,940 --> 00:46:35,780
We can start a big garden with the mulch and let it sit for when we can get to a larger

824
00:46:35,780 --> 00:46:42,220
garden the subsequent year and start a smaller garden with a current mix and, you know, use

825
00:46:42,220 --> 00:46:46,900
that as like a pilot project to work out our systems and then make it larger the next

826
00:46:46,900 --> 00:46:48,460
year with her mulched garden.

827
00:46:48,460 --> 00:46:49,460
Beautiful.

828
00:46:49,460 --> 00:46:51,620
And then in the future, you can use those beds for herbs.

829
00:46:51,620 --> 00:46:56,180
I really like keeping the herbs out of the garden because a lot of those are, they stay

830
00:46:56,180 --> 00:46:57,180
there all year long.

831
00:46:57,180 --> 00:46:59,740
And so it's really better to have those separate.

832
00:46:59,740 --> 00:47:05,180
So in that, in that case, I would use that now for vegetables, use it later for herbs.

833
00:47:05,180 --> 00:47:10,700
And so having a good plan is really important, but don't spend so much time planning that

834
00:47:10,700 --> 00:47:12,900
you never get out and start planting.

835
00:47:12,900 --> 00:47:16,500
And then the other thing I would really encourage people is to keep a journal.

836
00:47:16,500 --> 00:47:21,580
And so the only reason we were able to ever write the book is because I had spent 15 years

837
00:47:21,580 --> 00:47:24,500
keeping a journal of everything I've ever done.

838
00:47:24,500 --> 00:47:28,780
And this is like, I keep all my notes in here every, literally every time I go out there,

839
00:47:28,780 --> 00:47:32,380
I've got maps and sketches and calendars and all sorts of things.

840
00:47:32,380 --> 00:47:36,020
And that's how you improve in your, your method from year to year because gardening is very

841
00:47:36,020 --> 00:47:37,520
geographical.

842
00:47:37,520 --> 00:47:41,900
And so what works for me, like my calendar and my varieties that work well for me here

843
00:47:41,900 --> 00:47:45,540
may not work as well for you where you're at, but you'll have to develop that knowledge

844
00:47:45,540 --> 00:47:46,540
yourself.

845
00:47:46,540 --> 00:47:51,220
And the only way that you can harvest so much from such a small amount of space is to be

846
00:47:51,220 --> 00:47:52,820
very intentional.

847
00:47:52,820 --> 00:47:55,220
So I'm always looking at the calendar.

848
00:47:55,220 --> 00:48:00,780
I'm always just doing a little bit consistently along the way so that my garden's always fully

849
00:48:00,780 --> 00:48:06,100
planted and fully maximized, maximizing its yield.

850
00:48:06,100 --> 00:48:07,100
That's great.

851
00:48:07,100 --> 00:48:12,580
And it reminds me that my stepfather was a food scientist at Cornell.

852
00:48:12,580 --> 00:48:14,740
That was his, his work.

853
00:48:14,740 --> 00:48:21,040
And so I saw him for years in the home garden that he had with my mother.

854
00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:23,100
He would document everything.

855
00:48:23,100 --> 00:48:26,820
His notebooks were a thing of beauty.

856
00:48:26,820 --> 00:48:28,420
His garden notebooks.

857
00:48:28,420 --> 00:48:29,420
Yeah.

858
00:48:29,420 --> 00:48:31,180
And that's really important information.

859
00:48:31,180 --> 00:48:35,940
And just so you know, like the things that are really important are dates, when you plant

860
00:48:35,940 --> 00:48:39,740
something and when you harvest something and how much you harvest.

861
00:48:39,740 --> 00:48:43,540
If you realize that you're only harvesting a half a pound of peas every year, and I'll

862
00:48:43,540 --> 00:48:47,620
tell you, these are the lowest producing plant there is.

863
00:48:47,620 --> 00:48:52,420
If you, if you're not getting a huge yield, we won't grow to get, we're a high production

864
00:48:52,420 --> 00:48:53,420
garden.

865
00:48:53,420 --> 00:48:55,700
I need a lot of vegetables to feed a lot of people.

866
00:48:55,700 --> 00:48:56,940
And that's what I'm concerned about.

867
00:48:56,940 --> 00:49:00,380
I don't do crazy goofy niche things.

868
00:49:00,380 --> 00:49:02,540
I do what everybody eats.

869
00:49:02,540 --> 00:49:08,540
And if you, if you pay attention to those times that you're planting and harvesting,

870
00:49:08,540 --> 00:49:13,100
then you'll know when that bed's going to become available to put something else in.

871
00:49:13,100 --> 00:49:16,980
And so that's what I'm talking about, that intention, intention, this you always, you

872
00:49:16,980 --> 00:49:22,660
just have to constantly be thinking about what can I do next in the garden?

873
00:49:22,660 --> 00:49:27,380
I meet a lot of people who they, they build it and then they, they think they're done

874
00:49:27,380 --> 00:49:28,380
and they walk away.

875
00:49:28,380 --> 00:49:31,180
And like having a garden is kind of like having kids.

876
00:49:31,180 --> 00:49:36,180
Like it's, it's just a continual investment of your time and energy and thought process

877
00:49:36,180 --> 00:49:39,700
to reap all these beautiful benefits that we're so thankful for.

878
00:49:39,700 --> 00:49:40,700
Right.

879
00:49:40,700 --> 00:49:45,340
And if you don't track it, like I remember there was one year that I planted some kind

880
00:49:45,340 --> 00:49:49,660
of an Asian green that was fantastic.

881
00:49:49,660 --> 00:49:51,260
It was like it produced all summer.

882
00:49:51,260 --> 00:49:52,620
It was pest resistant.

883
00:49:52,620 --> 00:49:54,180
It was delicious.

884
00:49:54,180 --> 00:49:57,620
You know, it kept reseeding into the fall.

885
00:49:57,620 --> 00:50:01,540
And then I hadn't kept the seed packet of what it was.

886
00:50:01,540 --> 00:50:03,180
And I've never known what it was.

887
00:50:03,180 --> 00:50:06,900
I was like, you know, so for years I've been like, Oh, if I could just figure out what

888
00:50:06,900 --> 00:50:09,260
that thing was that I planted.

889
00:50:09,260 --> 00:50:12,740
So don't be like me, write it down.

890
00:50:12,740 --> 00:50:18,940
So in closing, what would you say to someone who wants to grow some or maybe eventually

891
00:50:18,940 --> 00:50:24,220
all of their own food, but they feel overwhelmed or they feel daunted by getting started?

892
00:50:24,220 --> 00:50:25,620
What would you say to them?

893
00:50:25,620 --> 00:50:30,540
I always tell people to start small because if you start too, too much, again, it's like

894
00:50:30,540 --> 00:50:31,540
having children.

895
00:50:31,540 --> 00:50:33,140
Nobody starts out with six children.

896
00:50:33,140 --> 00:50:34,140
Right.

897
00:50:34,140 --> 00:50:36,700
You have one child and you decide like, I can do this.

898
00:50:36,700 --> 00:50:39,540
And you, you slowly add to it because your heart grows.

899
00:50:39,540 --> 00:50:41,940
And that's how it is with gardening too.

900
00:50:41,940 --> 00:50:45,060
Start small, decide if you're going to love it or not.

901
00:50:45,060 --> 00:50:50,060
And I'm telling you, there is no better feeling than that salad you make with your own lettuce

902
00:50:50,060 --> 00:50:51,060
and your own tomato.

903
00:50:51,060 --> 00:50:56,060
I remember the joy we would have if we had a meal where we produced all parts of it.

904
00:50:56,060 --> 00:50:59,580
Like this was a once a year, like it was just a huge occasion.

905
00:50:59,580 --> 00:51:01,780
And now it's so weak.

906
00:51:01,780 --> 00:51:05,620
I mean, everything we eat comes from our property and we don't even think about it anymore.

907
00:51:05,620 --> 00:51:06,980
And we eat like kings.

908
00:51:06,980 --> 00:51:11,780
I tell you farmers, farmers, what they lack in income from what they're doing is make

909
00:51:11,780 --> 00:51:12,780
growing vegetables.

910
00:51:12,780 --> 00:51:14,860
It's not the huge money making endeavor.

911
00:51:14,860 --> 00:51:16,860
But you get to eat like a king.

912
00:51:16,860 --> 00:51:22,500
You couldn't, I mean, the people that shop at the farmers market couldn't buy all the

913
00:51:22,500 --> 00:51:25,700
vegetables enough to supplement their whole diet.

914
00:51:25,700 --> 00:51:29,500
You know, they're buying things to have for a couple of meals, but nobody goes to the

915
00:51:29,500 --> 00:51:33,140
farmers market and buys 100% of their vegetables for the week.

916
00:51:33,140 --> 00:51:34,820
You couldn't afford it.

917
00:51:34,820 --> 00:51:39,740
And so the people that take the time to do this, if you'll take the time to start small

918
00:51:39,740 --> 00:51:44,140
and then just gradually increase your knowledge and increase what you're working on, you'll

919
00:51:44,140 --> 00:51:45,780
love it.

920
00:51:45,780 --> 00:51:48,500
And it will not feel overwhelming.

921
00:51:48,500 --> 00:51:53,980
It will feel exciting and achievable.

922
00:51:53,980 --> 00:51:57,700
And in the end, you'll have so much that you're thankful for.

923
00:51:57,700 --> 00:51:58,700
And delicious.

924
00:51:58,700 --> 00:51:59,700
Absolutely.

925
00:51:59,700 --> 00:52:01,420
And your health is going to benefit.

926
00:52:01,420 --> 00:52:02,940
Your physical is going to benefit.

927
00:52:02,940 --> 00:52:06,180
I remember when I got into gardening and I read that it was great exercise and I remember

928
00:52:06,180 --> 00:52:09,780
thinking like, how hard could it be to poke some seeds in the ground?

929
00:52:09,780 --> 00:52:12,060
And let me tell you, it is amazing.

930
00:52:12,060 --> 00:52:14,260
It is amazing exercise.

931
00:52:14,260 --> 00:52:17,260
Well, thank you so much, Brianne.

932
00:52:17,260 --> 00:52:21,820
This has been very inspiring and very informative and I learned a lot that's personally useful

933
00:52:21,820 --> 00:52:23,820
for me.

934
00:52:23,820 --> 00:52:31,540
So I appreciate your generosity and sharing all of your experience and hopefully we'll

935
00:52:31,540 --> 00:52:33,580
be talking more again soon.

936
00:52:33,580 --> 00:52:37,340
I look forward to getting this out to our viewers and listeners.

937
00:52:37,340 --> 00:52:38,340
Great.

938
00:52:38,340 --> 00:52:39,340
Thank you.

939
00:52:39,340 --> 00:52:42,460
Take care, everyone.