Welcome to Bite Size Dental Marketing. My name
is Ian de Jong and today we are talking to Dr.
Christopher Phelps, a general dentist, entrepreneur
and internationally recognized expert in patient
reactivation, behavioral economics and influence
marketing. Now I'd had a lot planned for this
episode today, but when we got into Caldini's
six principles of influence, the podcast kind
of took on its own legs and we really got into
how these six principles and now the seventh
which is unity can be applied in your practice
to make small changes that are actually going
to make a difference in the new patient acquisition
treatment acceptance and overall production of
your business enjoy so Dr. Phelps, the first
question that I have is one I love to do for
all of my guests because your story to me is
just as important as everything that you're going
to be sharing with us today because it gives
our listeners an understanding of why did Christopher
Phelps choose this journey in dentistry and not
just dentistry, but then go beyond and understand
it in ways that many dentists... often don't
really do. Like I know you have a background
in marketing and you look at behavioral economics
and of course you went on, you became a dentist,
you have the Phelps Institute. That's a long
list of things. And I would love if you can just
get into where this all started for you. You
know, it all started, flashback, when I was in
seventh grade, so in middle school here in the
States. And my buddy and I were sitting around
his house playing video games. And his mom was
tired of us doing that. So she was looking for
extracurricular activities to sign him up for.
And somehow she found out about a Future Dentist
of America club meeting that was going on in
our area in Greensboro, North Carolina. And she
signed him up for it. And he looks to me one
day and he goes, hey, my mom signed me up for
this dentist thing. Do you want to go? Because
he didn't want to go by himself. And I was like,
yeah, sure. What am I doing? I'll go with you.
So now I'm at this event and this dentist is
taking us around his office. He's doing a traditional
carousel slideshow, showing us pictures of smiles
and his happy patients and how he takes care
of people. And I looked in the corner of his
office and kind of right under our light was
a table with all these shiny instruments. Like
they look brand new. And so like a moth to a
flame, I was kind of drawn to him like, ooh,
what's all this stuff? And he was one of the
early implant pioneers doing blade implants.
implants that look like uh the bottom of a uh
skate like an ice skate uh when you put a tooth
on it kind of thing and so you would build a
drill basically a trough in the bone put this
blade down in there and the bone would kind of
grow around it and you'd have a post sticking
up to put a tooth on it and i was just like oh
my god so you do what to people's jaws like you
do surgery and use all these instruments he was
like yeah that's what i do and i was like For
whatever reason, just really drawn to that aspect
that he not only did smiles, he did the surgeries
and kind of more complicated things. And I can't
explain it, except I had this overpowering feeling
in that moment where I was like, yeah, this is
what I'm going to do when I grow up. And so I
literally made the commitment then. And it set
me on a path, right? I became a better student
because, you know, my mom said, well, you know,
you got a D in this class right now. You know,
you can't go to dental school with D's. And she
was like, well, lucky for you, they don't count
until high school. So figure it out now. So when
high school comes, you're ready. And I was like,
yes, OK, I still got time. So and I did. Right.
I did well. So that kind of set me on the dentistry
path. What I hadn't realized was that truly at
my core, I'm an entrepreneur that happens to
be a good dentist. So I go through school, graduate,
join my wife's dentist who'd been her dentist.
since she was 15. I joined him and bought into
his practice in 2003. And what was interesting
is we had quite the monumental ride of growth.
It was almost like my career at this time was
like a tale of two cities. So it started out
unbelievable and we couldn't lose. Let's put
it that way. So my first year on practice, we
doubled the revenue of the practice without increasing
the overheads. So as a new owner, that was a
great place to be. It allowed me to buy a house
and pay down my debt for what I bought in for
fairly quickly. It allowed us to build multiple
offices. So we did a startup office from scratch.
It was probably about eight miles up the road
from the original practice. And same thing, had
a million dollars in revenue the first year and
two million dollars in revenue the second year.
So just, again, a phenomenal start. So we bought
a third office, right? And we brought on some,
we let some of the searchers that were with us
come in as partners. And then we got a fourth
office. And so literally from 2003 to 2010, we
10 times the revenue of the practice. Was that
just the timing was right? The area was right?
Or were you guys just doing something different
that just sparked? Yeah, here's what we were
doing that nobody was doing. Marketing. At that
time, it was kind of this. old boys club where
it was uh negatively viewed upon you if you were
marketing okay they were like the tradition was
you just hang a sign with your name on it and
hope people will come or you sign up for an insurance
plan and that's how you get your patients they
send them to you right uh we were a true fee
-for -service practice for all of our practices
so we weren't in network so yeah we weren't getting
those people coming to us like all the other
docs in town were So we needed to do something
different. And the fact that nobody had marketing
in the past and that we might be viewed negatively
by our colleagues did not shy me away from doing
it anyway. I was on the radio. I was doing direct
mail. I was doing newspaper inserts. I was in
neighborhood newsletters. As many places as I
could put our message, that's where we were.
So we benefited from that because it was a time
when not many were marketing, if any. And my
colleagues were like, oh, no, they're marketing.
What's going to happen? They almost thought it
was illegal for dentists to market, right? And
then they found out, oh, geez, they doubled the
business. They just had a new location. They
had another location. Oh, crap, maybe I should
market. Maybe I should start marketing. And the
next thing you know, several years later, now
everybody's marketing. I think that was a big
catalyst for us. We had a blue ocean. Nobody
out there was doing it, and we were the first
to do it well and heavily. That catapulted our
growth, 10x growth in that seven -year period.
And it was great. But then I decided at that
point that, you know, as one of my mentors calls
it, buy back my time. Because I had not realized
that being the CEO of these four companies, as
well as being a clinical dentist, is a major
competition for my time. So it became clear that
I needed to simplify my life. and buy back my
time. So me and my original partner decided to
take over the two struggling practices, the two
worst ones of the bunch. And we sold the two
best practices to our other partners, right?
So we could kind of consolidate and get back
to doing things our way. Well, what's interesting
is when you take over your two worst practices
is that you don't have the buffer of the good
ones to supplement the challenges of the weak
ones, right? So one of these practices, now our
second cold start office, Again, a tale of two
cities, meaning the first one we did, the first
cold start office, did $1 million the first year,
$2 million the second year. We basically tried
to replicate that a second time, and this practice
is struggling. It's collecting $35 ,000 a month
in revenue with a full -time associate, full
-time hygienist, five chairs fully ready to go,
just like we did the other one. But it's costing
us $70 ,000 a month in expense. So you don't
have to be a marketing expert or a business major
to realize that's not a good check to write every
month. When you've got three other practices
and three other partners, it's an investment.
When you want one partner in one practice, that's
a problem. So it was a powerful motivator for
me to dig into the challenges and not procrastinate
on solving them anymore, one of which was in
marketing. So our marketing was really successful
from the get -go to fuel that growth up until
this point. But now I've got these two worst
ones, and I'm spending $36 ,000 a month in marketing
to get 60 new patients for my efforts. So 30
at one of my offices and 30 at one of my other
offices. What efforts within that were you doing
at that time? Because this was still probably
before, I mean, what we know internet marketing
as it is today, right? Right. Yeah, there really
weren't. Google AdWords was very basic in most
of it. So we're talking like 2012. So was it
mostly, as you said, like the mailers and the
banners and the billboards and that type of stuff
that was costing that much? Yeah, radio ads we
did with the drive home from work celebrity crew,
if that makes sense. Direct mail, newspaper inserts,
any kind of neighborhood magazine. There was
a lot of community magazines we ran. So a lot
of traditional offline external marketing, right?
was really spending a lot of that money on that.
And so I knew that we weren't getting a return
for that investment, but I didn't know why. So
as you said, that's when I got curious. And now
that I had gotten rid of the other practices,
I actually had the time to focus on this problem
and step out of the chair and go, all right,
I can't ignore this anymore. We've got to deal
with it. And in my case, I realized that it wasn't
the leads not coming in. Lots of great leads
each month. But my team didn't answer the phone
254 times a month from new patient phone calls.
From marketing sources, I paid for the phone
to ring and we didn't answer. When they did answer,
we only made an appointment 24 % of the time
with a 17 % no -show rate. So then I had to dig
into the why of that to kind of turn it around.
But flash forward now, maybe four months later.
On the other side of this, and I'm spending probably
six months by this point. I'm spending $9 ,000
a month in total in marketing. And I'm getting
300 fee -for -service patients. So $170 a month
at one office and $130 a month at the other office.
So night and day difference in that result, right?
So that really kind of set me on the path to,
I already was doing marketing in the early days,
but I can't tell you that I understood marketing.
It was really studying these pain points in the
struggling practices that forced me to become
an expert in it and figure it out. Is that what
pushed you into this love for behavioral economics
and understanding the psychology of marketing
in that way? What did you understand about the
behavioral economics and these principles that
you put out there through your institute that
really mattered in that moment to turn things
around for the practice? first and major pain
point for most practices, even to this day. But
the second one is if they don't come back for
treatment, right? It's going to cost you more
in marketing to make up for that inefficiency.
You know, if you are converting treatment at
a 20 % rate, then if you want to hit a certain
number, you need more people to reach that number.
So I realized we had all these pain points with
our patient behavior. Why weren't they returning
for treatment that they needed? with myself and
the other doctors that worked for me. I noticed
my team struggling here. Why is it that, because
I did two days at each office, so I would rotate
between the two offices. So when I was there
at that location, people did their job. If I
was not at that location, when the cat was away,
the mice would play. And that's what these old
adages about human behavior usually speak to
the principles of persuasion behind them, right?
Why they stand the test of time. Why do I have
to keep telling my team to do their job? Why
don't they just do their job? My associate doctors,
why am I paying for their education? And they
don't come back and use the education. They don't
create new services that they learn, new things
they can charge forward patients, right? So what
did I really pay for? So I had all these pain
points and behavioral issues going on that I
couldn't put my finger on the root cause of why,
and which is why nothing happened, right? So
when your brain doesn't feel like it understands
the root cause, and if it doesn't understand...
If it doesn't feel like it has the capabilities
to solve the problem, it does two quote -unquote
helpful things to protect you. Number one, it
ignores the problem altogether, right? What problem?
There's no problem. Or it procrastinates on the
problem. I see it, but I don't have to deal with
it now, right? And that's kind of what I was
in. I was stuck in that procrastination mode.
I didn't know what to do with it. So a friend
of mine invited me to a business conference,
and Dr. Robert Cialdini was the keynote speaker
at that business conference. And at the time,
he talked about his six principles of persuasion.
We have seven of them now, but back then there
were only six. And I remember one of those principles
in particular being my light bulb moment, like,
aha, that one right there, that one is the root
cause behind every one of those pain points.
Why aren't the patients coming back for treatment?
Why do I have to keep telling my team to do stuff?
Why are my doctors implementing the education
I paid for, right? I said, all right, this guy
knows his stuff. I got to find out more. And
then so I immediately got his book, Influence
the Psychology of Persuasion, not realizing the
world leaders and experts that had recommended
that book. Warren Buffett today still says that's
his number one business book on communication.
Okay, so I read Influence, digest it, talk about
the history and the studies, behavioral science
studies. So again, now it's not somebody's opinion
on ways to turn things around in your life and
your communication. It's science behind it. It's
study after study and why people do what they
do. So to me, that's more objective. And I like
to make strategies around objective things because
then I can, they're predictable, right? I can
count on them. So I then found out he does a
two -day training once a year in Phoenix, Arizona.
So I immediately signed up for that and took
my operations manager. And we spent two full
days with Chelsea and his team learning, going
deeper into these things. And then at that event,
I found out about their certification program
that you can train under him directly for over
a year and be a certified trainer. And I don't
know, I mean, they get thousands of people apply
every year, but I threw my name into the hat
and said, hey, it never hurts to try. And they
selected me and I got to train with him directly
for over a year. I get certified him and took
all this behavioral science research that I learned.
And I went back to my two struggling practices.
and tried to make strategies, not around the
excuses people were giving me after they said
no, right? So an excuse a patient might say is
you're too expensive. That's why I'm not doing
it. Or my insurance doesn't cover it. So your
strategy around the excuse is, well, if it's
too expensive, I got to discount it. If it's
because of the insurance, I guess I have to take
the insurance or get in network, right? Well,
I realized that's not actually what the reason
was behind their decision. It was these other
things leading up to that moment beforehand.
That's where we really dropped the ball. So when
I implemented these principles and created systems
in the patient experience process leading up
to the ask, suddenly treatment acceptance blew
through the roof for everybody, right? And within
three years' time of me selling the two best
ones and taking over the two worst ones, between
fixing the marketing, pumping in an unlimited
quantity of quality due patients, and more people
come back doing something with treatment instead
of choosing to do nothing, Well, we had million
-dollar growth at each of those clinics, okay,
three years in a row. And by that time, that
means the two clinics were doing more in revenue,
profitability, and my free time than when I had
four in total, okay? All because of figuring
out the marketing and figuring out the psychology
of why people do what they do and making some
small changes in how we presented things that
resulted in big results. Even as I just listened,
I was thinking about so many dentists saying,
I want my time back. I don't want to work Fridays.
I want to do the higher cases and I want to not
have all of these insurance patients coming in.
I'm tired of working so hard and I'm not seeing
the bottom line. And you just painted a case
study that you went through. This is your case
study of it is possible. to love dentistry, to
love going into work, to make the money you want
to make, but there's certain sacrifices and certain
changes that need to happen. So the one that
you said now is marketing is a no -brainer. Was
that one for you? You said the six principles.
Can you take us through those principles so that
we can actually make dentists aware of these
are the things that you should be thinking about?
Yeah. So the first principle is the principle
of reciprocity. which basically states that if
someone has given you a gift of value and significance
to you, an obligation is created inside of you
to give back to them in kind. So example, somebody
gives you a gift on your birthday, you're more
likely to give them a gift on their birthday.
Somebody does you a favor, you're likely now
to do them a favor in return, right? So reciprocity
is you feel indebted to that person because of
this gift. That's the obligation. Therefore,
it goes on your to -do list to give back in kind.
Liking is based as a simple principle. Dale Carnegie
wrote a whole book on how to amplify this principle.
But at its core, liking is we like to do business
with people we like. If it's a friend asking,
it's hard to say no. If it's an enemy asking,
it's easy to say no, meaning a non -friend. But
true liking is about not trying to get others
to like you. It's showing them that you like
them first. If you're the first to show them
that you like them, then the reciprocity principle
kicks in and they like you back. So how do we
show them that we like them? Well, we like those
who are like us and take the time to discover
that they are like us. Meaning we like people
with commonalities, similarity, common interests.
I can hear Dale Carnegie's from How to Win Friends
and Influence People. We're reading that as an
agency now. And as you're saying that, it's about...
Having real interest in other people, finding
similarities. And in that way, the more you are
interested in them, the more they will like you.
It's as simple as that. So leveraging that, finding
that commonality with them before you get down
to the business of dentistry, whatever they're
there for, automatically means more people say
yes to something that you presented to them versus
choosing to do the worst thing, which is choosing
to do nothing. Social proof. is another principle.
That principle basically states that oftentimes
we look to the evidence of what others are doing
or have done to show us what we should do. So,
for instance, if you were walking into a building
for the first time and 50 people run out of that
building screaming in terror and running in the
opposite direction of you, the odds are pretty
good you're not going to go into that building
to find out what they're running from. Right?
You just figured out in that moment, oh, this
might be a dangerous situation. I should probably
go with the crowd. Okay? This is a reason in
the animal kingdom that birds flock together,
animals herd, fish school. So we have learned
evolutionarily that there's safety in the crowd.
We as humans, even though we're more evolved
thinkers, so to speak, we are still susceptible
to that pull. So yes, we want to be unique individuals
different than everybody else, but we want to
be unique individuals that are still part of
a tribe, part of a group, part of a community
in some aspect. So if we associate ourselves
with others and we see them moving a certain
direction, there's going to be a pull for you
to go the same way. So if I've seen, you know,
I'm at dinner at a restaurant and the waiter
says, here's our specials. And our most popular
dish is kind of relaying evidence of what the
majority have done before me. Studies show that
increases acceptance of that item by over 24%.
Again, we can leverage the same thing. If you're
presenting something that the majority of your
patients have actually chosen, don't hide that
fact. Lead with it. Let them know this is what
the majority of my patients have chosen. If you
can put a number to it specifically, this is
what 96 .7 % of my patients have chosen. It sharpens
the effect even more, right? So social proof
is powerful information to get people to move.
The authority principle fits us well, but basically
the authority principle states that we look to
credible, trustworthy experts to tell us what
we should do. So credible means you have to have
some kind of expertise and training and experience
in the matter and be somebody people can trust.
That's really what we're looking for. An expert
we can trust. We look to those people to tell
us what we should do because, truthfully, we
don't have time to be an expert in everything.
It doesn't mean we can't to be an expert. We
just physically don't have time. So if I've got
a plumber that comes to my house and they tell
me I need a new toilet, okay, I don't know anything
about plumbing. They got reviews, people trust
them. I guess I'm buying a new toilet, right?
So that's all that is. Someone with more expertise
in the matter than you, that can be trusted.
We look to those folks that tell us what we should
do. We have some authority built into us just
because of our title, doctor. Patients know and
they're going to take our advice more to heart
than even our team members because we have that
title. To them, that means we have training,
we have expertise as a result. So authority is
a big one. Consistency. Consistency was the principle,
my kind of light bulb moment, if you will, that
I mentioned earlier. But at its core, simply
put, consistency is about commitments. If you
get people to commit, Then they do. If you get
people to commit, they usually follow through
with the commitment that they made and do it.
So if you're not seeing the results like I wasn't,
what's missing? I realized I wasn't getting a
commitment out of any of those people to do any
of those things. That was my harsh reality. Once
I realized that and I made a point to get better
commitments out of my patients to do their treatment,
my team to do their job. my doctors to get education
they're actually going to come back and use.
Everything changed. So consistency is probably
one of the most powerful of the principles. If
people commit, they do. If they're not doing,
you're not getting them to commit at its core.
Scarcity. Scarcity means, it's really about resources.
So if resources are dwindling or about to run
out, then it motivates you to want that thing
more and do more to get it. Even if you didn't
want it to start with. So we see that effect
all the time. If there's like a storm coming
into town, a big storm that they broadcast over
the news and whatnot, there's a run on bread
and milk at the stores historically. Economics,
the law of supply and demand is scarcity at its
core. FOMO is scarcity at its core. So if I told
you the oxygen was running out of the room you're
sitting in right now. Most of you would probably
want to know that before it runs out versus when
it runs out. Because if you know before it runs
out, what's it going to motivate you to do? That's
where scarcity pulls us, okay? So if things are
limited or about to run out, it motivates you
to want that thing more and do more to get it.
And then the seventh principle, which is the
newest principle, which came out in the book
Presuasion about seven years ago, eight years
ago, I think. It's called unity, okay? Unity.
It's not a you versus me situation. It's a we
situation. So sometimes we unite ourselves with
others under a banner, under a category of things,
something that we uber associate ourself with.
And if we find somebody else associates in the
same way, it takes it beyond liking. Liking is
we have a commonality. Let's say Ian and I, let's
say we're both from the same hometown. Okay.
We were both born in the same place. That's similarity.
That's liking. But if you absolutely love that
town, you're like the poster child for that town,
always talking about it, love everything about
it. And I hate that town and couldn't get out
of there fast enough. Do you see how the similarity
stops right there? Versus if we both love that
town and unite ourselves under that banner, we
are this town. That's unity. That's sports teams.
Sports teams can create unity. You're family.
is a unity kind of unit. Culture, religion, geography,
there's all kinds of things we can unite under
from this. But if somebody is asking you a request
and they're united with you, it's hard to say
no. Okay. So unity is the seven principles. I'll
summarize quickly again. It's reciprocity and
then commitment and consistency, social proof,
authority, liking, scarcity. And then the last
one that you said, the seventh one that's been
added is unity. You touched on it briefly, but
I want to break down for dentists now. We understand
these principles now. Within a dental practice,
what does this actually mean to me? When you
say reciprocity in my dental office, what does
that mean to me? You said that consistency really
denote and change things for you. Is it fine
with you if we break it down just in terms of
examples so that we can relate it back to within
the dental practice? Yeah, definitely. So reciprocity,
for instance, how do you know if you've given
someone a gift of value and significance to them?
Well, there's usually two key words people say
to let you know that's happened. And they generally
go out of their way to say, thank you. So when
somebody thanks you generally for something you
or your team have done, If they go out of their
way to praise or compliment you for something
that you have done, whether you realize it or
not, and even if it meant nothing to you and
they just paid you for it, if they're bringing
it up, you're in a reciprocity moment. They feel
obligated to give back. Okay? If a patient sits
up from their chair and goes, Oh my God, Doc,
I didn't feel that shot. You're amazing. I can't
believe we're done already. That was fast. You
didn't hurt me. That's a reciprocity moment,
okay? So if you ask for something in that moment,
you're likely to get a yes to it. So one of my
favorite things, we're giving these gifts away
to patients all day long because they're complimenting
and praising us, but we're bungling it by not
seeing it as a moment of power that we could
ask for something in that moment if we wanted
to. So my favorite thing to ask in that moment
is, hey, my pleasure. I'm so glad you had a great
experience. Would you mind helping us out by
doing a five -star Google review? Airing that
story on Google will help not only us, but help
others who need a good dentist. And they say
yes. Now you've got a commitment for them to
do the review. And then they feel the pressure
on them eventually, so they are more likely to
do it because they want to be a good person.
They want to reciprocate what you have done for
them. Yes. You have allowed them to scratch off
this obligation off their to -do list. Oh, great.
I feel indebted. I've got to do something for
Ian. You are amazing. Oh, I can do this review?
Scratch it off my list. Okay. And you're saying
that dentists don't take that opportunity enough
where the signal is there that there's a moment
for reciprocity, but we let it go. So therefore,
we miss out on the patient referral. We miss
out on that review. We miss out on the testimonial.
Yes. And in fact, not only do we miss out on
it, we often completely bungle it, us and our
teams, by saying two other words that stomp it
to death. Oh, no. The two words we usually say
are, no problem. Well, number one, technically,
you're not being ethically true in saying that
if you put any level of effort or energy into
making that experience happen. But society has
taught us, conditioned us that we're supposed
to say that. I'm telling you, that's crap. The
two words that should not be spoken in any culture,
religion, continent you grew up in is no problem.
So I have a problem with no problem. So at a
minimum, because basically what you're doing
is this person is trying to give back to you
and you're spitting in their face, telling them
it meant nothing to you. You devalue them completely.
I haven't even thought about it. So give patients
the opportunity to give back when you as a dentist
or your team has done good work. Give them that
opportunity. At a minimum, don't downplay it
and spit on it by saying no problem. Just acknowledge
it. You're welcome. My pleasure. I was happy
to do it. But if you're smart, see it for what
it is. If there is something you could ask for,
a review, a referral, schedule their next treatment.
Now's the time to do it. That makes a lot of
sense. The second one, Doc, is commitment and
consistency. Yeah. So one of the best commitments
you can get out of people is what we call a verbal
commitment, a verbal active commitment. So in
one study in a popular restaurant in New York,
I'm sorry, in Chicago. They had a 30 % no -show
rate on reservations. So it wasn't the authority.
This place had awards like you wouldn't believe.
It wasn't the social proof. It was popular. But
they still had a 30 % no -show rate on reservations.
The average no -show rate in dentistry ranges
from 17 % to 24%. So we're not too far off. Now,
what they did was normally they would make a
reservation and they would end the call saying
something very similar to what we do in dentistry.
hey, thanks for making this reservation. Please
call us if your plans change and you can't make
it. Click, and they hang up the phone. So they
ended up with a statement. Well, what if we turned
that around and made that an active verbal commitment
question instead? Okay, Ian, I got you down for
this Saturday at 6 p .m. Ian, will you please
call me and let me know if you need to cancel
or change your reservation? And you wait for
them to commit and say yes. Hopefully they say
yes. Yes, I'll do that. Great. Then I got you
down. We look forward to seeing you Saturday.
So just getting that one verbal commitment. Will
you please do this? No share rates drop from
30 percent to 10 percent at that rush. Wow. And
that is that again by behavioral economics as
you put or psychology, you put it back to them
as we'll do it because I said I would do it.
So therefore it is it is now on me. Is that,
I understand that correctly? It is. Just because
they made an appointment doesn't mean they actually
committed to it. What this does is it really
creates more of a commitment inside of them and
reinforce the fact they said they were going
to do this. Or at a minimum, at least call you
if they can't make it, which is really all I
was trying to influence with my patients. If
they can't make it, as long as I have notice,
well, you've got a system for that, right? But
if they no -show on us completely, then everybody
loses in that scenario, okay? So not only it's
going to influence more people to do what they're
supposed to and show up. Okay. This is just one
of many more commitments I got on the telephone
from patients. And it helped me drop my no -show
rate from 17 % to three. And it was all about
getting better commitments on the telephone and
at the chair when we made their appointments.
I know so many dentists that struggle with this.
And we've even, we've gone to a point where we
introduced like a fee at this, like, especially
for high -end treatment where to reserve your
appointment, $50 and stuff. But you did this
without even introducing a fee, which is amazing
to me. So you said it's literally just saying,
do you commit to the fact that if you cannot
show up, you will give us a call? We do not say
the practice is going to call them. We put it
on them. And that changed it? That's just one
of many things I put in there. So there's active
commitments. Verbal is one of those. When people
tell you they're going to do stuff, that's an
active commitment. There's voluntary commitments.
People need to feel like they have a choice in
the matter. So we don't just say, Ian, can we
see you this Tuesday at 2? No, I can't do that.
How about this Thursday at 4? No, I can't do
that. How about Wednesday at 3? Okay, I guess
I can do that. Now, you think you gave people
choices, but when you dictate it to them one
at a time, you didn't give them a choice. And
if people don't feel like they have a choice
in the matter, they're not really committing
to it. You gave them options, not a choice. Exactly.
Well, even options is a choice, but you didn't.
You gave them one thing. Oh, yeah. No, and then
you gave them another one thing, and they said
no. So in essence, every time you do that, they
actually feel more intimidated. They feel like
you're backing them into a corner, right? I see.
Eventually, they will say yes just to get you
to shut up, but it doesn't mean they're actually
committed to it. Versus if I said, Ian, what
works best for you, next week or this week? This
week. Okay. Beginning of the week or end of the
week? Beginning of the week. Okay. Monday or
Wednesday? Wednesday. Morning or afternoon? Afternoon.
Two o 'clock or four o 'clock? Two o 'clock.
Great. Looks like I have you down this Wednesday
too. So when you present things as they deserve
that choice, that's a true choice. Every time
they choose, they're making a voluntary commitment
at every step. Now that person is more in control
and they're more likely to show to the appointment
they now chose, not the one you dictated and
told them. As you're saying this, I just think
of this in literally every social setting or
any, whether it's marriage, whether it's with
a friend, whether it's whatever. It becomes so
clear when you say this. Nobody's going to do
something that they don't want to do. You can't
force someone to do something. And I'm sure this
psychology plays into what you just said. Allowing
someone to make the choice by themselves will
make them feel, I did that. This was me. So therefore,
they are more likely to actually do it. Social
proof was the next one that you spoke about.
So again, we look to others to show us what we
should do. So in an advertising world, I like
to group four testimonials together because what
most studies show is if you can show four people
have moved your direction, said yes to this thing,
whatever that is, it'll start the wave at a football
or baseball game. Four will influence four more,
will influence eight more, et cetera. So you
show people, wow, look, they've got, four people
that have said something great about them. But
at the same time, if you put under there, and
to read the 750 plus reviews we have on Google,
Facebook, Yelp, and Healthgrades on our website,
right? Show them how many reviews you haven't
told. Oh my God. Wow. Not only did these four
say something great about them, and look how
many people those are, but look how many more
they have. 700 people? I'm looking at these other
dental ads and they don't have anything. positive
from patients on there and they've got over 700
which one might i choose now which ones would
be safer for me less risk the one all these people
said something positive about right and is it
a risk in the psychology that you've looked at
now for people is it i know there's desire to
of i want to see that dense because it's the
best review is there a risk aversion type of
style of thinking when they are like doing what
you said now oh this one's five stars with seven
oh but this one has two thousand reviews and
therefore that It must be better because it's
less risk. Is that part of the equation? Yeah,
it's definitely a safety, security, and it's
really more about uncertainty more than anything
else. They literally just don't know what to
choose, which path to go down, what's going to
be the best choice for them, right? So some of
that's some risk aversion. Some of that's the
benefit combined. But ultimately, it's just which
path is going to be more certain versus which
is less certain. And if we see evidence that
all many others have gone down this path, well,
maybe I'll be saved going down that path too.
That's ultimately what it comes to. So if you're
presenting treatment to a patient and you don't
show them evidence that you've done this work
on your other patients, this is where before
and after photos comes into play. Showing them
examples that you've done this on many people
shows that potential patient in the chair who's
going, wow, okay, you've done a lot of work in
this area. You must know what you're doing here.
Look how many people you've served. versus if
you're not showing them evidence you've done
this on anybody, what they're thinking is, wait
a minute, am I the first to do this? Because
nobody likes to be the first. It creates a seed
of doubt and uncertainty in their mind. And again,
they're not going to choose to do anything as
a revolt. Getting more reviews, sharing all those
reviews you have, showing evidence as many before
and afters as you can. With those that have done
that are some of the best ways to leverage social
proof. The next one we're hopping to is authority.
So you touched on that briefly with that's just
doctors need, dentists, doctors need to use that
authority within the practice for what it is
worth. Did I understand that correctly and the
influence it can have? Yeah. So authority is
not about telling people you're the authority
or the expert. It's about letting other people,
other items, other things present you. as the
authority that you are. And putting up authority
triggers to reinforce that. Like, for instance,
now I'm in my 22nd year of clinical practice.
So if a new patient's walking up to my practice
for the first time and they see a logo or a badge
on my door that says 20 plus years serving this
community, right? That automatically shows I've
been around for a while. I might know what I'm
talking about. I might have some experience here,
right? So it's things that highlight your credentials,
if you will. So putting up my diplomas on the
wall, my awards, my certificates, those are all
authority triggers that show those folks that
this is not my first rodeo. I may know what I'm
talking about here, so therefore they're going
to take my recommendations more to heart as that
expert. Sharing that testimonial, as I mentioned,
a reviewer testimonial, each of those individually
actually speaks to your authority. It's actually
a patient saying that they trust you. Because
we need experts, but that we can trust. So a
single overview or testimonial speaks to your
authority. It's somebody said they trusted you.
But having four more of those as the social proof,
it's look how many people trust you. It's a multiple,
right? It's not just a singular thing. So it's
about getting other things, other items, other
ways to present your credentials to the patients
without you having to tell them and figuring
out ways to build trust. Your staff probably
plays a big role in this too when they're...
before the patient actually gets to your office
and their ability, as you said, to have, oh,
have you met Dr. Phelps? Is this the first time
seeing Dr. Phelps? Oh, he has seen so many patients
and they just love him. So would you say that's
to your team's role in forking up that confidence
in that person to say, okay, I'm so happy that
I'm seeing Dr. Phelps because this is my guy?
Definitely. That goes back to let other people
present your expertise and credentials to the
patient so it's not you giving it to them. I
definitely love team members introducing you
to the patient and endorsing you to the patient
before the introduction, before that handoff.
And I really like it when my team gets introduced
and endorsed, especially if they're going to
make some kind of recommendation as well that
I'm going to reinforce and back up. Because now
it helps us with multiple experts. advising us,
right? And the more authorities telling us we
need this done, the more likely we are to do
it. It's one of the reasons why I like AI programs.
Like, you know, there's Diagnocat and Overjet
and Pearl are some really good programs. So patients
see these AI programs that review their x -rays
and show you all of the decay and stuff, right?
The bone loss and whatever. and point that out
to them, it's almost like another authority in
their mind, an unbiased source going, oh, crap,
I got a problem. And now the doctor comes in
almost now as the second opinion, and they take
their advice more to heart. They're more likely
to say yes as a result. So we got to leverage
technology and tools and find other things and
ways to promote our expertise and build trust
with patients. Liking, as we mentioned before,
is just before I get down to the business at
hand, my goal is to find at least one thing in
common with that person, at a minimum. The more,
the better, but at least one thing. The hack
here is, the trick is that I get my team to find
my connection for me. So my team knows everything.
I've shared with my team everything I feel comfortable
talking about, my hobbies, my interests, my kids,
my animals, my whatever, right? So now they're
the ones coming to me after interviewing the
patient. They spend the time with them and go,
hey, Dr. Phelps, Mrs. Jones is in room two. She
plays tennis like you do and has two kids. Great.
So now I come into the room. My team has endorsed
me. They introduced me. And I'll say, hey, Mrs.
Jones, I hear you got two kids. I got two kids.
Tell me about your kids. Here's my kids. Hey,
you play tennis. I play tennis. Let's talk about
tennis for a minute. So I literally spend, I
can go right to the connection, talk about that
for two to five minutes. And now we can get down
to the business of why they're here. And I've
automatically built a bridge with this person
that wasn't there. It sounds so simple when you
say it like this. And I know probably dentists,
they don't do this. It's such a small step, though.
Yeah. We call these small things. Small things
you can do that can have a big change in your
outcomes. And the liking principle is probably
the most bungled and ignored by dental offices
and truly many companies alike. It's such an
easy thing to do, but nobody has time, or so
they think. But how much is it costing you by
not doing this? Well, turn on scarcity, right?
What are you losing out on by not doing this?
There's a lot. A lot. And so scarcity, again,
is that you mentioned it in this way too. Now,
on the scarcity side, does it also play in for
you on... How marketing is presented. We have
a limited amount of spots in our seats when we're
on the phones talking to someone. How do we implement
that in the office too? Yeah, that's a great
way. If you do have limited spots, share that
with people. Usually, like if I'm going on vacation
this summer, like I'm going out of town, I'll
be gone for 10 days with the family. I'm not
going to hide that information from my patients.
I'm going to share it with them three weeks earlier
and say, FYI, the office is going to be closed.
for 10 days next month. We have limited days
and appointments available between now and then.
If you think you might have an issue or want
brewing, give us a call if you want to be seen
before we're closed. And if I share that with
them early enough that we're the scarce resource,
we're going to be not available for 10 days,
then what will actually happen is it will motivate
people, especially those sitting on the fence
that are like, well, Doc did tell me I had that
issue. And knowing my luck, guess when it's going
to blow up? When they're closed and out of town,
shoot, I better get in there now. It's going
to motivate those that their real problem wasn't
the relationship with us. It wasn't that they
didn't think they needed the thing. It was they
thought they had time. It was the urgency of
it. So scarcity motivates people to act because
of that. So they don't wait. So it'll actually
motivate more people to come in between now and
when you're actually closed. You'll actually
do more dentistry because of it. More production,
more collections. And you'll basically make up
what you're going to miss out on by being closed.
But communicate, communicate and make sure that
people early in the process to make that happen.
Then the last one, Dr. Phelps, is unity that
you mentioned that was added later on. When I
think of that, when you mentioned it earlier,
is that. The brand that I put out into the world
of the type of office that I am, is it that patients
fall in love with me because of who I am? What
does unity mean for you here in your everyday
dental office and how they can get that right?
Think of it like unitizing language. We, us,
our partnership together, right? Unity is just
that. It's not you versus me anymore. It's we.
We are on the same team. So getting them to associate
themselves with you as a whole, we, this office
kind of thing, is key. So that's one of the ways
you can leverage this is just use that unitizing
language. So it's not, Mrs. Jones, how are you
going to get this done? It's, Mrs. Jones, let's
take some time to figure out how we're going
to get this done together. Co -diagnosis, I'm
familiar with. I've spoken to Dr. Paul Henney
and Dr. Paul Homley on this where they said the
importance of You are taking that patient on
that journey with them. You are elevating their
understanding, but it's being made together.
This is us making this decision. It's not me
telling you you need or you must get this. It
is here is what I say and you decide. So, okay,
that's interesting. Now, Doc, I know I said to
you when we started this that we have so much
to talk about and I see that we're close to the
hour mark and I know you're a busy man. wanted
to get into patient reactivation and marketing
a bit more but can i get your commitment to come
back on bite -sized dental marketing please so
that so that we can so that we can talk about
those things again yes i'm happy to come back
and we can continue the conversation oh thank
you because this this was phenomenal and i'm
really happy that we got into the six and our
seven principles because as i said to you these
are things that So many dentists, and you see
this every day, that so many dentists struggle
with. But if it's just these small changes that
they make every day, you saw it in your practice,
it compounds, it changes things to a point. So
dentists, listen to this today. Go out there,
go make these changes. Even if it seems small,
do it because Dr. Christopher Phelps is living
proof that making these changes and implementing
it really does make a difference at the end of
the day. Dr. Phelps, thank you so much for your
time. I really appreciate you having. Thank you,
Ian. Thank you.