Welcome to Bite Size Dental Marketing. My name
is Ian and I am your host today and I'm joined
by the lovely Dr. Rima Arnook. Dr. Rima is one
of the most amazing stories that I've heard in
terms of dentistry, coming to America from Syria,
starting two dental practices, going into business
with her family, which a lot of people, Doc,
many times say, don't go into business with your
family, but somehow you did it incredibly. and
I've invited her to come and talk to us today
just to hear more about her story, to share some
insights for the younger generation of dentists
that are either thinking of coming to America
or that are starting their own practices, what
she's learned, and also what it's like working
with a family. So, Dr. Rima, I want to say thank
you so much for making time today to come and
talk to us. My pleasure. Of course. So, I want
to start at the beginning because, as I said,
one of my favorite things about you and about...
working with your practice is the fact that you
have a unique story that is not just, it doesn't
happen overnight. This takes a lot of dedication,
a lot of hard work, a lot of sacrifice, which
I know you had to go through. And I would love
to hear if you can take me through the story
from why you went into dentistry to deciding
this is the dream I want to follow, moving to
America, starting your businesses. So I will
sit back and I will let you tell your story.
Thank you. So I was born in the United States.
My parents were in the United States. My dad
is an electric engineer. He went to school here.
And then my mom was so homesick. So we had to
move back to Syria against really my dad's will.
And I grew up in Syria. I graduated as a dentist
from Syria. And then I got married to my best
friend since we were in... First grade. We've
been together since we were six years old. We
lived in the same town. We went to the same school.
And then we both went to dental school in two
different cities. We got married and I came back
to the United States because of our upbringing.
My dad really was always talking about the United
States and the opportunities you can have. If
you want to better yourself, if you want to learn
more, if you want to do better, you have a chance
to always do better. So it was like I did in
my head. So we came to the United States and
then we went again. We had to study again because
we need to be licensed in the United States.
So it was very difficult, that cultural shock.
I know my sister is a doctor as well, and she
had moved to the Netherlands and went through
a similar process. So how many years extra, what
did you have to do when you came over? Yeah,
it took us an extra three years. We came here,
we all speak very good English. We had very little
money. And then I was pregnant with our oldest
daughter. So it was quite a struggle. It was
not easy. We had no family here. So we basically
became closer because I only had him, he only
had me. And we had to figure everything out from
the language to... He worked with Dominus Pizza.
And I used to wait for him for just the tips
so I can keep him on the side so I can buy stuff
for Miriam. So it was difficult. And then we
had to work so hard to learn the English, the
terminology, because we had very little English.
And the culture, the cultural shock. You know,
you're with no friends, no family, and then you
have to learn the rules. It was a lot. It's a
whole new beginning. It's a whole new beginning
that you needed to take on together. Yes. Yes.
And I think this is the story of every immigrant.
Everybody has a story to tell. I'm not the only
one or my husband. We're not the only people.
So it's really hard. But that actually, doctor,
that's why I wanted to talk to you because I
feel that the immigrant story of America is what
built America. That is people like you that takes
that leap of faith to, To say, I'm going to go
and create a future for myself in this foreign
place. I mean, that is what America, in my opinion,
as a South African, that is what America was
built on. And reality is, it's a great country.
If you work hard and you're very persistent,
like you really want to do it, you have a chance.
Anybody in this country have a chance to build
a business or to follow their dreams. You can
follow your dreams. You can achieve your dreams.
But you have to be very persistent. You have
to respect the rules. You have to understand
you're not in your country. You have to adapt.
Adaptation is very important. I see a lot of
people who don't succeed because they don't want
to adapt. You know, they don't want to adapt
to that. to the rules of the country. They want
to adapt to the culture. You have to blend with
the culture. You have to understand and take
what's good for you. So I think... Because at
the end of the day, your business will be created
in that country now. It is not... You now need
to assimilate, as you were saying, to play to
your crowd, if I can put it that way, because
you're trying to build a business. Right now...
I feel I was born in Glendora. I was raised in
Glendora. And I still love my country. I still
visit. And I still have the culture at home.
We keep the culture. But you have to feel you
belong. And you have to be very persistent. I
never give up. Never. You never give up. Because
as you were saying, I think that the scary part,
especially as you said, which many immigrants
and even... Dentist immigrants that are coming
over to America have this thing of not everyone
comes in starting with money or having this bright
future ahead of them. As you said now, you had
to come in with your husband with not a lot of
money, with not speaking the language very well.
But yet you carved this path forward for yourself.
And I would love to hear how. You told me the
story about how at the dental trade shows, you
would have your two daughters with you because
you couldn't leave them at home because they
were still too young. So you're trying to build
this business. You have the two babies on your
sides and you're creating this business. Can
you tell me a bit about the story of how when
you did your extra three years, you're now ready
to be a dentist in America. What was those first
steps that you put in place? to start getting
your business off of the ground uh the first
thing we we were not able to have or all our
kids at the same time so we had our kids spread
so much like we have five years between our oldest
daughter and the second daughter and we have
eight years between the second and the third
because i couldn't be a devoted mom and that
was my biggest problem like my biggest agony
was the guilt feeling guilty because we don't
have family here We don't have a support system.
So we only have each other. So that was the most
difficult part. And then, of course, you can't.
That's why you're saying playing business owner
and needing to start the practices and all of
that and also being a mom is too. I mean, starting
a business and being a mom is probably two of
the hardest things that you can ever do. in your
life from at least experience from what I've
spoken to my mom about. So I can imagine that
must have been very tough. It's very hard. But
my husband, truly, he's my biggest support, my
biggest fan, my biggest cheerleader. He's my
best friend. I owe him a lot. He empowered me
a lot. He always was there for me when I fell
down or when I felt guilty and vice versa. Like
you wake up in the morning when you see the other
person is not feeling well, immediately you become
very strong. You're ready to go. And then vice
versa, you know? So this was very helpful. Yeah,
we had our parents come and help us a few months
there. But basically, I really owe it a lot to
him, to his support. Because I like me now more
than me if I was not working. I owe a lot. I
owe a lot to my work. And you're touching on
a point here that I think is the next question
that I wanted to go into with you is for dentists
starting out and for startups. We work with so
many startups and some of them make it, some
of them fail. And one thing you started said
is not giving up is one point that I heard there.
And I love the point that you made about having
your husband or having a husband, wife, a support
structure. Some you need to find someone that's
going to be with you. Is there any other? things
that come to mind for you as you think of your
journey from starting the practices that you
did what really helped you in those early days
that you would say to to a younger generation
you know as a student and you you have to study
again when you come at like you are a dentist
at your country and you and you come here you
have to really associate with people who had
that path before you and you will always find
them you will always find them from going to
church from friends from somebody and you have
to be very open -minded and listen to their story
you will find people that will not help but you
will always find someone who will help you know
because they will help you with the path like
go to this school do this course uh they you
know that the connections are very important
and you never give up you have to do your own
work as well but getting involved in the community
and and yes finding people finding people that
are going through the same struggles as you or
that are trying to do the same thing yes so at
our office i always i always hire um dentists
foreign dentists from any country uh they're
so bad as dental assistants they do a horrible
job and uh i'm very patient with them i don't
hire them depending on them that they're going
to give me in return that best assisting and
you know but i want them to be in touch with
The technology, the new stuff that we have at
the office, dental terminology. And then my kids,
they always help them with their applications
because it's very rewarding when you see those
people going to dental school and you're part
of their journey. So this is like, yes, we have
a lot. We have a lot of people like who did that,
who did that. I think it would be a good idea
for you to talk to them because it helps other
students listening to their story. It helps other
people. You have to connect yourself with somebody
who went through the journey before so they understand
your agony. So that they can help, yes. A problem
shared or a difficulty shared is half. And they
need to be very flexible, willing to learn, to
adapt, and very persistent. I insist on this
one. Don't give up. Don't give up. You're going
to fail, you're going to fail, then you're going
to go up, then you're going to go down. It's
like a roller coaster until you achieve it. I
love that. Yeah, and once you achieve it, this
country is a great country. You can do, if you
really want to be whatever you want to be, the
best artist you can be, the best dentist you
can be. I remember on the grand opening of our
office, so this will be our second office in
the United States, and I'll go back to that,
but at the grand opening of... Foothill Family
Dental Group. I remember I told everybody, I
don't know how I said that. I said, this office,
one day it's going to be number one England door.
And everybody looked at me because I started
from scratch. I had no patience. I did not buy
a practice that's already running. And it's in
a medical building, no exposure whatsoever. I'm
on the fourth floor. No one will know there's
a dentist in the office. I was scared to death.
Like I was so scared. And I remember saying,
this office, it's going to be number one in Glendora.
And I believe we're top dental office in Glendora.
We might not be number one, number one, but I
mean, I know we are a top notch office. I know.
So you have to be giving yourself. You need to
know where you're heading. You have to have a
goal. And you never, never size down your goal.
It has to be a big goal. And you have to keep
going after that goal. No matter what. You have
to keep going. It's a complete struggle. Yes.
But the good is in that too. And some of the
good, if I think about you, and I, of course,
know your family by now, and it's amazing to
see how I hear you speaking a lot about your
daughters, about your husband. What makes your
dental practices is the fact that you have this
dynamic. And amazing how both your daughters...
went into dentistry as well. You have three daughters,
correct? And the third one is going to dentistry.
See, so I mean, that is incredible. So what we're
always taught or what you always hear is don't
go into business with family or friends. And
somehow, Rima, you cracked that code. Can you
tell me a little bit about that journey of all
three of your daughters also going into dentistry?
You now working with two of your daughters full
time in both of your practices. What has that
experience been like and what message do you
have for people saying, I can't even imagine
going into business with my family? You know,
in parenting, you have to lead by example. There's
no talks. Talking and giving lectures doesn't
work, in my opinion. Anything you want from your
kids, you need to do it yourself. So it's very
difficult because you have to discipline yourself,
re -raise yourself. Before you raise your kids.
It's a difficult process. But that's what happened
with the girls. Because I believe they did see
a passionate mom. Very passionate about what
she does. So I think that was a good example.
You know, I never asked them. But I'm thinking.
Because they keep writing things for me. Like
they leave notes for me. You are a role model.
Thank you for always working hard. Like they
leave notes for me in the bathroom. when they
see me overwhelmed or tired. So I know that I
did lead by example. That was number one because
we never asked them, neither me or my husband,
to go to dance. Everybody thinks we pushed them
because we want someone to take over the business.
On the contrary, we really wanted to sell our
practices and enjoy our life together now because
we worked so hard. We were not planning at all
on kicking the practice. But then Maryam joined.
And she joined as a dental hygienist. And when
she worked with me, she said, are you going to
be my boss all the time? I said, basically, yes,
because the hygienist, they have to work under
a dentist, right? But this is your office. You
can be your own boss. She said, no, no, no, no,
no, no. I don't work well like that. She went
back to dental school. So now she's a hygienist
and a dentist. And she's one of the best dentists
ever. She's a very good family dentist. She's
awesome. She's there. She knows everything about
it. She's really good. She keeps learning. And
then the second one, Yara, I never knew she was
going to go to dental school until she came home.
She said, I applied. No, before she said, I applied.
She said, I'm taking my DAT. I'm, what? So that's
how they went to dental school. No one pushed
them. When they joined the office, that was very
difficult for me because My patients, my patients,
they are like everything to me because every
patient is very precious to the office. That
office started from scratch and it took a lot
of hard work from us as a family. We've been
to every health fair in the community, to a lot
of the schools in Glendora. We worked so hard
on building the practice from patient number
one. So giving those patients to Marion first
was the most valuable. difficult thing I've been
through. Because what I did, I did hand her the
patient from A to Z. And I pulled myself away
from the floor 100%. And I told her, if you don't
take care of my patients, you're out. And she
had to work for three years. I'm your mom, but
I am your boss. And if you need to do a good
job, you need to do a good job. And I see that
all the time. She had to work somewhere else
for three years. And for her, she started one
day with me a week before I handed her the patient.
And she was up to it. She really was up to it.
When I replaced her for her maternity, my patients,
who I gave to her, they told me, we love you
and everything, but she's faster. She's more
quick. She's more like, no, no, no, we want her.
I say, okay. So that was like the turning point
is me accepting that they're the bosses. They
are taking care of the patients. Their support
is now. And I love one thing that you touch on
that I really like, that I speak to many of our
clients about so many times. And you've touched
on it a few times now in surrounding yourselves,
finding support, and talking about the community.
Can you share with me the importance of community
involvement for a dentist trying to build their
business? Because you said now how important
it was to you. What is your message to other
dentists in getting out in the community, being
involved in, as you said, the trade shows, the
fairs, the schools, the luncheons? What has that
meant to you? So I'm a big fan of Glendora because
we live in Glendora. And then our daughters,
my daughter went to school in Glendora, our youngest
daughter. When we moved to Glendora and then...
Now our granddaughter goes to the same school
that my daughter went to. So in Landora, you
feel the stability. You feel the sense of the
community. You feel like from now my daughter
went to the same school. Now I'm going to my
granddaughter's activities and I see the teachers.
I see, you know, so it is, you have this sense
of belonging. You do belong to a strong community,
but you cannot belong if you don't interact.
I do everything in Glendora. The only thing I
do in Glendora is to go to the mall. I do everything.
I like to connect to the businesses in Glendora.
So I go to the gym in Glendora. My daughters
go to school in Glendora, dry clean in Glendora.
So this is one thing. The other thing is you
have to be out there. People don't know about
you. And we are from the old generation where
we did not depend a lot on social media. Like
the new generation now, they depend a lot on
Facebook and Instagram and everything. But I'm
from the old generation where we had social interaction
to build your practice. You have to see people
in person. How are they going to know about you
when you are on the fourth floor in a medical
building? That's all doctors. There's no dentist
in the building and you are there. And how are
the people going to come to you? They don't know
about you. The only way in my life. I wasn't
a big believer until now. Now I believe how important
social media is. media is but when i started
the office 12 years ago or 13 years ago i said
it has to be me they have to see me i have to
see you i will go me and my husband and the kids
we have a canopy and waters and we put our flyers
and business and we go to all activities not
only health any activity in glendora in the village
downtown glendora we go and then the kids will
take the toothbrushes to businesses maya she
was eight years old she goes and she tells people
My mom is a great dentist. You need to go and
see her. You can go and meet her at the booth.
Oh, wow. Yeah, something like that. And then
the people were so happy to see me. Like, you're
the dentist? Talking to them, giving them my
business card. I'm not sending someone to represent
me. I love that. I love that. I speak to all
of our clients about this so often. And I know
you're someone that has done this exceptionally
well. Because... you do have the newer generation
as you're saying especially when dental marketing
the traditional side of website social media
paid media and these things when that is not
work that the months that that does not work
because it does this it's not always just going
to do this and what you need to do then exactly
to what you're saying is these are all different
factors and different playbooks That is going
to help your business grow. Yes, you need the
website. You need social media. You need these
things because that's going to help you online.
But think how powerful it is. If they meet you
in person, they then go and look at your website.
They then go and look at your reviews and they
say, I actually met this doctor. And that's why
I always say, get out into the community, go
and speak to people. I love what you just said
with the kids going, giving the toothbrushes,
because that is how you build connections. that
is the personal connection yes because when they
see you in person you can't fake you can't change
you can't like this is you they're seeing you
in person right if you want to put a photo you
always make yourself look very good before it
goes on social media right but when they see
you in person they're talking to you and then
i think they they they need to feel that you're
you care you care you genuinely care they interact
with you they feel that genuine care and this
is number one i don't care what now the dentists
know the new generation how good they are they
might be the best with their quality and blah
blah blah they don't care you need to have empathy
and care basically this is the theme of our office
so we have this everywhere like a sticky notes
to remind each other empathy and care when your
patient walks through the door toward the end
believing in you they're vulnerable they're on
the chair and you are They're vulnerable. You
need to have empathy. And they have stories at
home. Some of them might lost a kid. Some of
them, maybe they have cancer. Maybe some of them,
they're divorcing. Or not everybody come and
living this happy dandy life and have in their
pocket $10 ,000. You know, we need to have empathy,
work with them, work with their needs. Listen
to their story. They have a story. You need to
listen. Connect. So you can help them. You cannot
just have a plan. Okay, you need one, two, three,
four, five. I'm going to do everything on you.
You're not talking with a robot. No, 100%. And
that's spot on. That's spot on what you're saying
there. I completely agree. Dr. Rima, I so appreciate
you coming on and sharing your story with me
a bit. I think it's such a beautiful message.
The themes of what you've shared today, not just
the stories you told about you coming to America
and your advice to other immigrant dentists that
want to come over, but your story of finding
support and being true to yourself, surrounding
yourself with your community, being involved
in your community, setting those big goals and
going and going and going until you achieve them.
I just love your story and thank you so much.
for coming today to talk to me. It's truly been
a blessing. Thank you for having me. Thank you,
Ian. Okay. And that was your bite of dental marketing.
Thank you so much.