WEBVTT 00:00:10.449 --> 00:00:13.189 Welcome to Buy Size Little Marketing. Erin, it's 00:00:13.189 --> 00:00:17.890 2025. It's mid February, early Feb. And this 00:00:17.890 --> 00:00:19.809 is the first episode I'm recording. I've taken 00:00:19.809 --> 00:00:23.269 a little break. I was really excited when Katie 00:00:23.269 --> 00:00:26.269 and Andre line this up for us to meet. I'm kicking 00:00:26.269 --> 00:00:30.469 off season three now, I think, you know, north 00:00:30.469 --> 00:00:33.490 of a hundred episodes. And so I'm excited to 00:00:33.490 --> 00:00:38.070 have you on as the first guest of 2025. But I 00:00:38.070 --> 00:00:40.659 want to jump right in. Dental recruiters. It's 00:00:40.659 --> 00:00:43.640 in the name. I have some idea of what you do, 00:00:43.640 --> 00:00:46.259 you know, you're out of Minneapolis, which is 00:00:46.259 --> 00:00:48.899 lovely. We were just talking about what a great 00:00:48.899 --> 00:00:52.280 place it is to raise a family. Tell me the journey 00:00:52.280 --> 00:00:56.899 you've gone on to, you know, how the heck, who 00:00:56.899 --> 00:00:59.200 wakes up one day and says, I really love recruiting. 00:00:59.420 --> 00:01:01.759 I'm going to, I'm going to go recruit. I had 00:01:01.759 --> 00:01:04.200 a buddy that went to Harvard. I went to UTA. 00:01:04.340 --> 00:01:06.900 It's not, not the same, but he said, I can distill 00:01:06.900 --> 00:01:10.640 down a Harvard education in two sentences, market 00:01:10.640 --> 00:01:12.659 friction is market opportunity. And I thought 00:01:12.659 --> 00:01:16.299 that was, you know, well said, but it's probably 00:01:16.299 --> 00:01:18.120 a good time to be recruiting at the same time 00:01:18.120 --> 00:01:20.700 is challenging. But tell me, give me the backstory. 00:01:21.140 --> 00:01:25.120 Where's Aaron been? Yeah, so Thank you for having 00:01:25.120 --> 00:01:27.620 me, of course. I'm glad to be the first one to 00:01:27.620 --> 00:01:31.879 2025. But yeah, so I'm a licensed dental hygienist. 00:01:32.180 --> 00:01:34.159 I graduated from the University of Minnesota 00:01:34.159 --> 00:01:37.079 School of Dentistry with a degree in dental hygiene. 00:01:37.819 --> 00:01:40.299 Right after graduation, I moved to North Carolina. 00:01:40.780 --> 00:01:44.500 My husband was in the military and was stationed 00:01:44.500 --> 00:01:47.060 there at the time. So I practiced both as a clinical 00:01:47.060 --> 00:01:49.760 dental hygienist. And then I was also working 00:01:49.760 --> 00:01:53.150 in front office operations. After a couple of 00:01:53.150 --> 00:01:56.769 years of that, we moved to Texas where I practiced 00:01:56.769 --> 00:02:00.390 both as a full -time clinical hygienist. And 00:02:00.390 --> 00:02:03.750 then, so back in 2018, we moved back home to 00:02:03.750 --> 00:02:06.310 Minnesota, Minnesota's home. I spent a few more 00:02:06.310 --> 00:02:09.610 years practicing in private practice. Then I 00:02:09.610 --> 00:02:11.710 transitioned into more of a lead front office 00:02:11.710 --> 00:02:14.909 position where I managed everything from business 00:02:14.909 --> 00:02:18.620 reports and money, insurance. patient communications. 00:02:18.719 --> 00:02:21.580 And it really gave me that diverse perspective 00:02:21.580 --> 00:02:25.020 on both the front and the back office of a dental 00:02:25.020 --> 00:02:28.479 practice. Then a couple years ago, Shannon and 00:02:28.479 --> 00:02:32.780 I connected. We actually were at the same school 00:02:32.780 --> 00:02:35.039 of dentistry. She was just kind of a year ahead 00:02:35.039 --> 00:02:37.139 of me. So we had known each other for a while. 00:02:37.340 --> 00:02:40.740 But since she owns dental recruiters, her and 00:02:40.740 --> 00:02:43.039 I connected because she's looking for someone 00:02:43.039 --> 00:02:47.430 to run her dental recruiters company. It was 00:02:47.430 --> 00:02:49.310 a recruiting and a temporary staffing company 00:02:49.310 --> 00:02:52.830 at the time. And then just over a year ago, we 00:02:52.830 --> 00:02:55.569 rebranded and shifted our focus entirely on full 00:02:55.569 --> 00:02:57.990 cycle permanent recruitment for private dental 00:02:57.990 --> 00:03:01.110 practices. And I love it. I have both the clinical 00:03:01.110 --> 00:03:03.610 background as well as the business mindset to 00:03:03.610 --> 00:03:06.930 help practices succeed with a permanent team. 00:03:07.370 --> 00:03:11.719 If you look at the market today versus a year 00:03:11.719 --> 00:03:14.580 ago versus maybe five years ago. What are you 00:03:14.580 --> 00:03:20.199 seeing out there? As far as kind of what jobs 00:03:20.199 --> 00:03:22.539 are looking like? Yeah, what jobs are looking 00:03:22.539 --> 00:03:25.020 like? What compensation is looking like? What 00:03:25.020 --> 00:03:29.319 are you seeing these offices do? Yeah. And that 00:03:29.319 --> 00:03:34.500 has been the biggest shift, I feel like, especially 00:03:34.500 --> 00:03:41.080 since COVID. Ultimately, compensation is always 00:03:41.080 --> 00:03:43.639 going to be a big piece that grabs people's attention 00:03:43.639 --> 00:03:47.979 when it comes to applying for a position. So 00:03:47.979 --> 00:03:50.960 my job at Donell Recruiters is really to give 00:03:50.960 --> 00:03:58.020 a different balance, to kind of manual or to 00:03:58.020 --> 00:04:01.819 balance that compensation strain. So sky high 00:04:01.819 --> 00:04:04.879 hourly rates have gotten extremely high over 00:04:04.879 --> 00:04:08.840 the... recent years, but where's the ceiling? 00:04:09.240 --> 00:04:11.020 Eventually, you know, right now we're seeing 00:04:11.020 --> 00:04:14.479 average of $55 an hour for hygienists in the 00:04:14.479 --> 00:04:18.339 Twin Cities when reimbursements don't change 00:04:18.339 --> 00:04:21.480 and, you know, everything else just doesn't change 00:04:21.480 --> 00:04:23.579 as far as expenses in a dental practice. Where's 00:04:23.579 --> 00:04:26.019 that ceiling where eventually you're not, it's 00:04:26.019 --> 00:04:28.920 not reasonable. It doesn't make sense. So what 00:04:28.920 --> 00:04:32.300 we're seeing and What we really talk about, I 00:04:32.300 --> 00:04:34.839 know Shannon touched on this with you when she 00:04:34.839 --> 00:04:37.079 spoke not too long ago, but many of our practices 00:04:37.079 --> 00:04:39.639 that we're working with are incorporating a hygiene 00:04:39.639 --> 00:04:43.060 compensation model. Ultimately, it's the idea 00:04:43.060 --> 00:04:45.879 of associate dentists are getting paid a percentage 00:04:45.879 --> 00:04:48.259 of their production. Right now, dental hygienists 00:04:48.259 --> 00:04:51.939 are doing more than they ever have. So, you know, 00:04:52.019 --> 00:04:53.959 they're doing, of course, scaling and root cleaning, 00:04:54.300 --> 00:04:58.060 laser treatments. pro fees, increased, um, sealants 00:04:58.060 --> 00:05:00.720 and fluoride, but also Botox now is in the mix 00:05:00.720 --> 00:05:03.500 where hygienists can go in and, you know, ultimately 00:05:03.500 --> 00:05:05.600 mark all the places. Doctors just have to come 00:05:05.600 --> 00:05:09.459 in and inject. So they're doing more than they 00:05:09.459 --> 00:05:15.319 ever have. So that being said too, they can be 00:05:15.319 --> 00:05:18.339 compensated similar to a dentist as well. Where 00:05:18.339 --> 00:05:22.560 it's different is they're not paid entirely off 00:05:22.560 --> 00:05:25.810 of a compensation. Right. off of production, 00:05:25.949 --> 00:05:27.910 I should say, hygienists receive a reasonable 00:05:27.910 --> 00:05:31.629 base pay. That's where it can kind of stay within 00:05:31.629 --> 00:05:35.949 reasonable area for practices to manage. But 00:05:35.949 --> 00:05:40.329 then the ceiling is theirs to achieve. So this 00:05:40.329 --> 00:05:42.370 doesn't mean that dental hygienists recommend 00:05:42.370 --> 00:05:44.350 anything that's beyond their scope of practice, 00:05:44.709 --> 00:05:46.389 or that they should recommend any treatment that's 00:05:46.389 --> 00:05:48.610 not necessary, but it helps ease the blow for 00:05:48.610 --> 00:05:50.930 practices that are just paying the base rate. 00:05:52.800 --> 00:05:54.560 You know, ultimately, you don't want a hygienist 00:05:54.560 --> 00:05:56.540 that's just doing pro fees day in and day out 00:05:56.540 --> 00:05:58.720 and still get this base pay and there's no extra 00:05:58.720 --> 00:06:01.180 production coming in. But that's also where we 00:06:01.180 --> 00:06:04.040 recommend, you know, implementing other benefits 00:06:04.040 --> 00:06:07.860 as well that can attract candidates besides compensation, 00:06:07.860 --> 00:06:11.639 right? So this is where we get into welcome bonuses. 00:06:13.259 --> 00:06:14.779 And that can be paid, you know, a lot of people 00:06:14.779 --> 00:06:16.220 see welcome bonuses and they're like, I'm not 00:06:16.220 --> 00:06:20.540 going to pay five grand for a hygienist and then 00:06:20.649 --> 00:06:22.509 they're a week in and say, thanks for the free 00:06:22.509 --> 00:06:26.769 money. Bye. And that's more, you know, we work 00:06:26.769 --> 00:06:28.610 with them about what does that look like? How 00:06:28.610 --> 00:06:30.870 can that get paid out throughout the course of 00:06:30.870 --> 00:06:34.149 how much time? But, you know, that's an option 00:06:34.149 --> 00:06:37.930 holiday pay, including floating holidays, PTO, 00:06:38.550 --> 00:06:41.629 medical, dental, you know, those typical benefits, 00:06:41.670 --> 00:06:44.689 but also just some fun out of the box benefits, 00:06:44.810 --> 00:06:47.990 which is a fun one that we'll see or use, I should 00:06:47.990 --> 00:06:50.240 say every once in a while is having your birthday 00:06:50.240 --> 00:06:54.680 as a paid holiday or, you know, reimbursement. 00:06:54.740 --> 00:06:57.199 If you have a decent commute to work, can we 00:06:57.199 --> 00:07:00.420 reimburse mileage and gas money? So kind of some 00:07:00.420 --> 00:07:02.259 out of the box things to try to consider too. 00:07:03.100 --> 00:07:06.399 So I have a question for you and, you know, I 00:07:06.399 --> 00:07:09.759 feel old enough to ask this question. If your 00:07:09.759 --> 00:07:12.779 paradigm is, you know, I used to pay my hygienist 00:07:12.779 --> 00:07:16.459 $28 an hour, $32 an hour for whatever the number 00:07:16.459 --> 00:07:21.269 35. Sure. And now it's 55 and they want more 00:07:21.269 --> 00:07:23.790 freedom. That's a lot. If I've only ever done 00:07:23.790 --> 00:07:27.009 it one way, it just sounds like anarchy, right? 00:07:27.209 --> 00:07:28.949 Like, like I'm just giving away money. Cause 00:07:28.949 --> 00:07:31.649 even, even the bonus I'm giving away money. If 00:07:31.649 --> 00:07:33.790 I'm giving them their birthday off, I'm paying 00:07:33.790 --> 00:07:37.319 them, but I'm not getting their production. It 00:07:37.319 --> 00:07:40.339 all wraps up into just more money right it's 00:07:40.339 --> 00:07:43.040 some money and freedom but culturally that sounds 00:07:43.040 --> 00:07:45.000 if i'm only ever paying thirty five dollars an 00:07:45.000 --> 00:07:46.259 hour and if you're here i pay if you're not here 00:07:46.259 --> 00:07:49.699 i pay you that's such a huge gap and i acknowledge 00:07:49.699 --> 00:07:53.399 that that's a old way of thinking but still it 00:07:53.399 --> 00:07:56.279 begs the question of how do you culturally help 00:07:56.279 --> 00:08:00.360 that doctor bridge that gap to today right. Right 00:08:00.360 --> 00:08:02.899 and that's the, that's the million dollar question 00:08:02.899 --> 00:08:05.620 too, is how can we get doctors and practice managers 00:08:05.620 --> 00:08:08.740 on board with this whole, you know, what else 00:08:08.740 --> 00:08:12.220 besides just throwing money out? So yes, of course, 00:08:12.220 --> 00:08:15.279 you know, benefits are money, PTO is money, holidays 00:08:15.279 --> 00:08:18.300 are money, welcome bonuses, all that. But ultimately, 00:08:18.339 --> 00:08:20.759 how can we balance that where let's get these 00:08:20.759 --> 00:08:25.019 good team members for you that have the same 00:08:25.019 --> 00:08:29.240 views, same, you know, drive for patient care 00:08:29.240 --> 00:08:32.480 where they can ultimately have you produce more 00:08:32.480 --> 00:08:34.720 as a practice, where it doesn't seem like it's, 00:08:35.000 --> 00:08:38.360 oh my gosh, I'm losing all this money. More so, 00:08:38.440 --> 00:08:41.000 you know, okay, well, this is how we treatment 00:08:41.000 --> 00:08:43.539 plan. This is how we care for our patients. Here's 00:08:43.539 --> 00:08:46.059 our philosophy. And then if we can get everybody 00:08:46.059 --> 00:08:48.240 on their team on board with that, which is the 00:08:48.240 --> 00:08:53.000 ultimate goal, and ultimately that gap won't 00:08:53.000 --> 00:08:56.399 seem as like, well, we're just gonna keep downing 00:08:56.399 --> 00:09:00.779 money. So, the argument then, sort of if I'm 00:09:00.779 --> 00:09:03.539 distilling down what you're saying is, yes, you 00:09:03.539 --> 00:09:07.740 are going to outlay more cash. However, the cash 00:09:07.740 --> 00:09:11.279 you outlay is going to be furthered by an increase 00:09:11.279 --> 00:09:14.799 in your hygiene production. Perhaps your same 00:09:14.799 --> 00:09:18.919 day dentistry, you are going to see a corresponding 00:09:18.919 --> 00:09:22.139 rise in overall P &L health of the organization. 00:09:22.740 --> 00:09:26.000 Correct. And the same thing. you know, insurance 00:09:26.000 --> 00:09:29.039 reimbursements, that's kind of been a sticky 00:09:29.039 --> 00:09:32.919 situation too. But ultimately the baseline of 00:09:32.919 --> 00:09:36.519 fee for service for an exam or a cleaning or 00:09:36.519 --> 00:09:40.240 all that's naturally increasing, you know, rates 00:09:40.240 --> 00:09:45.159 increase usually annually, give or take as well. 00:09:45.279 --> 00:09:48.440 So there is that theory too. Yeah. If you only, 00:09:48.720 --> 00:09:51.799 I say only purposefully, if you only view hygiene 00:09:51.799 --> 00:09:53.960 as a place where cleanings happen, then this 00:09:53.960 --> 00:09:57.340 is a major mind shift for you because when I 00:09:57.340 --> 00:09:59.500 hear you talk it's it's it's less about just 00:09:59.500 --> 00:10:01.799 paying more money to keep a hygienist and if 00:10:01.799 --> 00:10:03.639 you view that way you're probably coming at it 00:10:03.639 --> 00:10:07.840 from a very Not an abundant mindset, right? But 00:10:07.840 --> 00:10:09.740 if you're very linear, you're right, but if you 00:10:09.740 --> 00:10:11.980 view it as you know what I'm gonna turn my hygiene 00:10:11.980 --> 00:10:15.620 into a revenue center and Treat it as such and 00:10:15.620 --> 00:10:18.539 have goals as such I can now see where I can 00:10:18.539 --> 00:10:21.039 go from just cleanings to it being a revenue 00:10:21.039 --> 00:10:24.090 center to give them Yeah. Yes. And exactly. And 00:10:24.090 --> 00:10:25.690 that's just it is you don't want to bring on 00:10:25.690 --> 00:10:28.570 a team member that's just in that mindset, you 00:10:28.570 --> 00:10:30.450 know, of, well, what do you mean? I just want 00:10:30.450 --> 00:10:33.610 hour long trophies four days a week for, you 00:10:33.610 --> 00:10:35.230 know, like, that's all I want. What do you mean? 00:10:35.330 --> 00:10:37.669 Kind of a thing. So that's where it can be more 00:10:37.669 --> 00:10:40.809 of a harder shift. But then that's kind of where, 00:10:40.889 --> 00:10:43.429 you know, I come in and it's like, OK, hear me 00:10:43.429 --> 00:10:49.610 out. Like, it seems aggressive, but. attracting 00:10:49.610 --> 00:10:51.750 these people. It's like, okay, like, prove it. 00:10:51.789 --> 00:10:53.809 We will give you all these things. We'll do all 00:10:53.809 --> 00:10:57.470 these things. But like, prove that you value 00:10:57.470 --> 00:11:01.230 our patience and our thing the way that we do. 00:11:01.610 --> 00:11:04.629 And you care, I care. So yeah, I think it's just 00:11:04.629 --> 00:11:06.970 shifting that mindset, which I, you know, I speak 00:11:06.970 --> 00:11:09.490 with a lot of colleges too, and it's kind of, 00:11:09.529 --> 00:11:13.590 you know, hey, it's not just a go in and I still 00:11:13.590 --> 00:11:16.379 actively practice every once in a while too. 00:11:16.419 --> 00:11:18.039 And there's plenty of times where I'll go in 00:11:18.039 --> 00:11:20.100 and I'll see patients and I'm like, man, there's 00:11:20.100 --> 00:11:22.159 so much that's just getting like, oh, well, we'll 00:11:22.159 --> 00:11:23.720 catch it next time. We'll catch it next time. 00:11:23.940 --> 00:11:25.679 Or, you know, like not where there's so much 00:11:25.679 --> 00:11:28.259 room for kind of better provider relationship 00:11:28.259 --> 00:11:32.460 too. Right. Right. Now I have a question. I one 00:11:32.460 --> 00:11:35.019 time left my cable company. I obviously a long 00:11:35.019 --> 00:11:37.419 time ago when I had cable because they were offering 00:11:37.419 --> 00:11:40.960 new people. Yeah. If forever go, if you signed 00:11:40.960 --> 00:11:43.179 up new, you got like, you know, six months for 00:11:43.179 --> 00:11:45.590 free. but they wouldn't give me six months for 00:11:45.590 --> 00:11:47.190 free and I've been around for a long time. Now 00:11:47.190 --> 00:11:50.009 flip that on the hygiene side. How are you handling? 00:11:50.110 --> 00:11:51.970 I have three hygienists and now I'm hiring a 00:11:51.970 --> 00:11:54.169 new one. They're coming in at a much higher rate. 00:11:54.250 --> 00:11:56.169 I'm having to advertise at a higher rate. How 00:11:56.169 --> 00:11:58.889 am I bridging that gap in the organization of 00:11:58.889 --> 00:12:01.590 someone's coming in at 55 bucks an hour and my 00:12:01.590 --> 00:12:03.850 God, no one makes it. How are you doing that? 00:12:04.370 --> 00:12:06.450 That's a great question because that is a very 00:12:06.450 --> 00:12:11.370 common question I get. And ultimately, you know, 00:12:11.470 --> 00:12:14.389 what I recommend and suggest is before we even 00:12:14.389 --> 00:12:16.750 get an ad out there, because that's your worst 00:12:16.750 --> 00:12:19.429 nightmare where you have this ad, it's all these 00:12:19.429 --> 00:12:22.370 extravagant promises. You can have your birthday 00:12:22.370 --> 00:12:25.490 off and you're the current. Fridays are free 00:12:25.490 --> 00:12:30.870 and everyone's like, whoa. And then you're the 00:12:30.870 --> 00:12:32.549 hygienist or sister or whatever and all of a 00:12:32.549 --> 00:12:34.049 sudden you're scrolling and you're like, wait 00:12:34.049 --> 00:12:36.450 a second, this is my practice. I would like to 00:12:36.450 --> 00:12:38.509 apply for that job. Correct, I would want that. 00:12:39.370 --> 00:12:42.309 What we recommend is, of course, obviously, and 00:12:42.309 --> 00:12:46.870 ultimately, if you are going to post an ad with 00:12:46.870 --> 00:12:51.350 A, B, and C, your current team, you need to match 00:12:51.350 --> 00:12:54.909 that. And that kind of goes into where, you know, 00:12:55.370 --> 00:12:59.149 ultimately, if this is the vibe and the kind 00:12:59.149 --> 00:13:01.350 of feel that you're going to give out to a new 00:13:01.350 --> 00:13:03.669 applicant, like, yes, this is why you should 00:13:03.669 --> 00:13:05.809 work for us. This is why you should come in and 00:13:05.809 --> 00:13:08.679 pick us above All the other hundreds of offices 00:13:08.679 --> 00:13:10.639 that are looking for the exact same candidate. 00:13:11.299 --> 00:13:13.080 That's where it comes into it. Yes, you need 00:13:13.080 --> 00:13:16.440 to adjust. Those benefits for the whole office, 00:13:16.440 --> 00:13:18.840 you know, that I get that question a lot too 00:13:18.840 --> 00:13:21.620 with, of course compensation, but medical insurance. 00:13:21.899 --> 00:13:24.019 Okay. Well, nobody in my practice needs medical 00:13:24.019 --> 00:13:25.919 insurance. I don't want to have to offer to everybody. 00:13:26.620 --> 00:13:29.240 Well, I mean, it's kind of going to come with 00:13:29.240 --> 00:13:32.860 the territory, but that being said to, you know. 00:13:33.049 --> 00:13:36.909 How do you keep your current team retained and 00:13:36.909 --> 00:13:39.409 staying? And, you know, you want to just ultimately 00:13:39.409 --> 00:13:42.889 create that environment where you want to attract 00:13:42.889 --> 00:13:44.990 candidates, but you want to not only retain them, 00:13:45.049 --> 00:13:46.990 you want to retain your current team. So that's 00:13:46.990 --> 00:13:49.090 where, yes, you want to make a great first impression 00:13:49.090 --> 00:13:50.789 when they come in for an in -person interview. 00:13:50.990 --> 00:13:53.309 But let's say, you know, what practice needs 00:13:53.309 --> 00:13:55.970 to set up that ambience that they can. continue 00:13:55.970 --> 00:13:58.250 for everybody else. Is it well organized? Do 00:13:58.250 --> 00:14:00.750 you have fresh flowers? Do you have refreshments? 00:14:00.769 --> 00:14:02.610 I've even seen where there's massage chairs in 00:14:02.610 --> 00:14:05.070 the break room. Like just something that, you 00:14:05.070 --> 00:14:07.309 know, what makes your culture and team stand 00:14:07.309 --> 00:14:09.830 out and where the rest of your team also feels 00:14:09.830 --> 00:14:12.370 just as honored to work there as you're trying 00:14:12.370 --> 00:14:14.509 to pursue this next person. I hate to be the 00:14:14.509 --> 00:14:17.730 middle -aged, you know, man in the room, but 00:14:17.730 --> 00:14:21.690 I am now most days. It's wild. And I find myself, 00:14:21.830 --> 00:14:24.960 Aaron caught sometimes between I'll give you 00:14:24.960 --> 00:14:27.679 an example. And, and my kids are not old. Uh, 00:14:27.679 --> 00:14:32.919 they're 12, 13, 14 now. Um, so they are not old, 00:14:33.039 --> 00:14:35.860 right? I mean, this is a relevant within the 00:14:35.860 --> 00:14:40.700 last 15 year story. I remember I worked at a 00:14:40.700 --> 00:14:44.679 large company and I told my manager that my wife 00:14:44.679 --> 00:14:46.460 was, you know, we're having, we're having kids. 00:14:46.519 --> 00:14:49.419 Uh, it was our second, it wasn't, you know, and 00:14:49.419 --> 00:14:52.960 I was going to take some time off to bring Sophia 00:14:52.960 --> 00:14:57.679 home. and he giggled and he's like, you don't 00:14:57.679 --> 00:14:59.879 have breasts and you ain't helping. What are 00:14:59.879 --> 00:15:01.899 you going to be doing? And he was, this was not 00:15:01.899 --> 00:15:05.919 a bad man. This was not a crazy man. He wasn't, 00:15:05.919 --> 00:15:10.100 he wasn't mean and he giggled and denied my time 00:15:10.100 --> 00:15:13.820 off to be there. It feels very jarring for me. 00:15:14.240 --> 00:15:18.120 to now fast forward to 2025 and I'm giving people 00:15:18.120 --> 00:15:22.139 their birthday off without it being a day. Unlimited 00:15:22.139 --> 00:15:25.779 leave is more common than not some places. I'm 00:15:25.779 --> 00:15:28.419 now having to adapt flexible work styles and 00:15:28.419 --> 00:15:30.480 even though I embrace it because I'm in marketing 00:15:30.480 --> 00:15:34.799 and obviously that's just where my world goes. 00:15:35.840 --> 00:15:40.059 It is shocking to me still when I try to comport 00:15:40.059 --> 00:15:43.049 where I came from because You know, I even told 00:15:43.049 --> 00:15:45.450 a story to Ian, one of the guys, you know, here 00:15:45.450 --> 00:15:48.269 in the company, he was saying, you know, we're 00:15:48.269 --> 00:15:49.909 talking about opportunities. And I said, you 00:15:49.909 --> 00:15:53.909 know, what's funny when my manager asked me to 00:15:53.909 --> 00:15:56.950 work late, early in my career, I viewed it as 00:15:56.950 --> 00:16:00.210 opportunity where today we view it as impinging 00:16:00.210 --> 00:16:05.629 on my work -life balance. And I laugh and I was 00:16:05.629 --> 00:16:09.870 like, work -life balance is... I think it's a 00:16:09.870 --> 00:16:11.730 myth. I think when people say work -life balance, 00:16:11.809 --> 00:16:13.470 what they really mean is life -life balance. 00:16:14.230 --> 00:16:17.570 I never want work to interfere in my personal 00:16:17.570 --> 00:16:20.309 life. It's funny because I've really had to do 00:16:20.309 --> 00:16:24.990 a lot of work to understand that the world can 00:16:24.990 --> 00:16:27.759 still function. There are still hard workers 00:16:27.759 --> 00:16:30.039 out there. They're not trying to take advantage 00:16:30.039 --> 00:16:31.799 of me, but like I have gone through a journey 00:16:31.799 --> 00:16:34.600 as a business owner of like when I look at people 00:16:34.600 --> 00:16:36.679 today in the workforce and I looked at what I 00:16:36.679 --> 00:16:38.500 did, I'm grateful they didn't have to do what 00:16:38.500 --> 00:16:41.399 I did, but it does feel shocking from a P and 00:16:41.399 --> 00:16:44.120 L perspective. I must say the percentage of money 00:16:44.120 --> 00:16:48.139 that I spend on staff and salaries and benefits 00:16:48.139 --> 00:16:50.600 is higher than it's ever been. Now paradoxically, 00:16:51.399 --> 00:16:53.639 the company in 2024 is more profitable than we've 00:16:53.639 --> 00:16:57.419 ever been. Right. And that's where I've I'm a 00:16:57.419 --> 00:17:02.360 believer. Lean into it. But it really took a 00:17:02.360 --> 00:17:05.500 lot of personal work for me to not be bitter 00:17:05.500 --> 00:17:07.740 about what I had to go through versus what they 00:17:07.740 --> 00:17:10.440 had to go through today and somehow comport that 00:17:10.440 --> 00:17:12.940 I can still be profitable in these other things. 00:17:13.619 --> 00:17:16.519 It's got to be hard for those dentists. Yes, 00:17:16.839 --> 00:17:20.970 especially in the way I've kind of reiterated 00:17:20.970 --> 00:17:24.910 it too, is yes, value of time, value of work, 00:17:25.089 --> 00:17:28.210 kind of the whole work -life balance theory has 00:17:28.210 --> 00:17:31.190 certainly shifted. And what's been interesting 00:17:31.190 --> 00:17:33.470 to watch too, and you know, people talk about 00:17:33.470 --> 00:17:37.769 the hiring of dental hygienists especially, and 00:17:37.769 --> 00:17:40.150 even dental assistants, but there's been that 00:17:40.150 --> 00:17:43.990 shortage. Really what we're seeing is the first 00:17:43.990 --> 00:17:47.690 cohort of baby boomers. Has been retiring last 00:17:47.690 --> 00:17:51.150 couple years. And so that's kind of what's led 00:17:51.150 --> 00:17:53.369 into that, which also means a shift kind of the 00:17:53.369 --> 00:17:55.069 same thing I was talking about before, where 00:17:55.069 --> 00:17:58.769 there's been a lot of people. Who I've been working 00:17:58.769 --> 00:18:01.309 at the same dental practice for the last 20 years, 00:18:01.529 --> 00:18:04.529 where you just don't necessarily hear that anymore. 00:18:04.970 --> 00:18:06.650 People are like, all right, couple years and 00:18:06.650 --> 00:18:09.890 I'm on to the next kind of a thing. Where I think 00:18:09.890 --> 00:18:13.390 that's the shift in the struggle is that a lot 00:18:13.390 --> 00:18:17.869 of those, I guess, values aren't necessarily 00:18:17.869 --> 00:18:21.289 there anymore. Where that generation that is 00:18:21.289 --> 00:18:25.609 now starting to retire, you know, yep, this is 00:18:25.609 --> 00:18:27.869 what I'm doing, I'm fine doing this, kind of 00:18:27.869 --> 00:18:31.109 really regimented in their day -to -day. life 00:18:31.109 --> 00:18:33.990 and work. We're now, you know, especially the 00:18:33.990 --> 00:18:37.130 new graduating class coming out where, well, 00:18:37.130 --> 00:18:39.390 this is my expectation. I heard that you can 00:18:39.390 --> 00:18:41.349 make this, this and that and do that. And then 00:18:41.349 --> 00:18:43.230 I can still do this. And so I go and I want to 00:18:43.230 --> 00:18:45.009 go on vacation whenever I want where they're 00:18:45.009 --> 00:18:47.410 really, that's where we kind of have to match 00:18:47.410 --> 00:18:49.549 and be like, okay, let's be realistic. Like we 00:18:49.549 --> 00:18:53.529 understand times are changing, shifting, values 00:18:53.529 --> 00:18:56.329 are shifting. And that's something that kind 00:18:56.329 --> 00:18:59.009 of, you know, as a, especially if you're a long 00:18:59.009 --> 00:19:03.519 time, dentist that you're like, well, no, the 00:19:03.519 --> 00:19:07.039 rest of my team, that's not what they value. 00:19:07.240 --> 00:19:08.599 That's not what they want. People, they're not 00:19:08.599 --> 00:19:11.819 driven in that sense. I find, I feel jealous 00:19:11.819 --> 00:19:13.720 of your envy. I don't know which one is accurate, 00:19:13.880 --> 00:19:16.839 but one of them, because of my, you're asking 00:19:16.839 --> 00:19:20.549 for things. that I didn't have until I built 00:19:20.549 --> 00:19:23.650 my own company and put my own money at risk and 00:19:23.650 --> 00:19:26.190 dang near got divorced to fight for the freedom 00:19:26.190 --> 00:19:29.329 I have today. And you just graduated school and 00:19:29.329 --> 00:19:33.569 you're kind of made it. I feel this like sense 00:19:33.569 --> 00:19:37.490 of, you know, jealousy of like, hey, why didn't 00:19:37.490 --> 00:19:40.349 I ask for that when I was not? Yeah, in 1995, 00:19:40.349 --> 00:19:44.490 why did I not have this? But it is the way of 00:19:44.490 --> 00:19:50.150 the world. It is. graduated in college in 2011. 00:19:51.269 --> 00:19:54.809 And when I started clinical, and then even like 00:19:54.809 --> 00:19:59.450 now is insanity. The difference even in that 00:19:59.450 --> 00:20:03.470 amount of time that it's just so that's kind 00:20:03.470 --> 00:20:06.309 of been the struggle is where do we cap that? 00:20:06.650 --> 00:20:09.789 Where do we just kind of say like, okay, yes, 00:20:09.789 --> 00:20:14.210 I hear your desires. But from a business standpoint, 00:20:14.529 --> 00:20:17.329 from a patient care standpoint, you know, where 00:20:17.329 --> 00:20:20.730 can we kind of lay the foundation of like, this 00:20:20.730 --> 00:20:24.089 is reasonable, this is how you get what you want. 00:20:24.289 --> 00:20:26.150 But and then just make sure that everybody is 00:20:26.150 --> 00:20:27.930 feeling respected. Because again, that goes down 00:20:27.930 --> 00:20:29.650 to retention. And are you going to lose another 00:20:29.650 --> 00:20:32.250 team member because you tick somebody else off? 00:20:32.710 --> 00:20:35.329 And so it's yeah, it is it's ever changing. And 00:20:35.329 --> 00:20:38.190 it's kind of what my job is to just try to stay, 00:20:38.190 --> 00:20:40.630 you know, not only relevant with the clients 00:20:40.630 --> 00:20:43.450 I work with, but even a titch above, you know, 00:20:43.549 --> 00:20:46.589 something dramatic, like one stand out extra. 00:20:47.150 --> 00:20:49.130 That's not thought of yet because you just want 00:20:49.130 --> 00:20:51.009 to try to stay ahead of the curve within reason, 00:20:51.009 --> 00:20:53.430 of course. As I hear you talk and I think through 00:20:53.430 --> 00:20:57.029 our own journeys, you know, we are at a paradigm 00:20:57.029 --> 00:21:01.910 change in dentistry in today because the private 00:21:01.910 --> 00:21:03.910 equity money that's coming in, they are taking 00:21:03.910 --> 00:21:05.890 care of their hygienist and they are paying their 00:21:05.890 --> 00:21:08.859 staffs these things. and they're doing it because 00:21:08.859 --> 00:21:12.599 they see that employee turnover is notoriously 00:21:12.599 --> 00:21:18.599 expensive. Three to 10 times the cost of a salary 00:21:18.599 --> 00:21:20.720 is what it takes to replace, depending on what 00:21:20.720 --> 00:21:25.039 number you look at, some massive thing. I feel 00:21:25.039 --> 00:21:28.880 that in dentistry where there are these factors 00:21:28.880 --> 00:21:33.819 converging, the labor market is one, and then 00:21:33.819 --> 00:21:35.500 there's the private equity funds that are coming 00:21:35.500 --> 00:21:38.849 in. And then there's this, this, you know, if 00:21:38.849 --> 00:21:42.309 you're a provider, a dentist today, and you're 00:21:42.309 --> 00:21:44.910 trying to optimize your P and L at the bottom, 00:21:45.089 --> 00:21:47.390 you're probably already losing. You need to be 00:21:47.390 --> 00:21:51.109 focused on growth because that's what everyone 00:21:51.109 --> 00:21:53.369 else is focused on. And to do that, you have 00:21:53.369 --> 00:21:56.450 to lean into leadership training or cultural 00:21:56.450 --> 00:22:00.390 training because as you're talking through your 00:22:00.390 --> 00:22:03.250 point, I cannot add the benefits. And I think 00:22:03.250 --> 00:22:08.259 they're important and valid in 2025. I can't 00:22:08.259 --> 00:22:11.500 bring hygienists on at these higher rates and 00:22:11.500 --> 00:22:13.920 still operate the way I was. And that requires 00:22:13.920 --> 00:22:17.180 change and that requires courage. Exactly. And 00:22:17.180 --> 00:22:21.200 personal work and, and you sound like you might 00:22:21.200 --> 00:22:24.460 be instead of recruiters, like a therapist. I 00:22:24.460 --> 00:22:26.480 try. Well, that's just, I mean, that's just it 00:22:26.480 --> 00:22:29.200 is the first step, honestly, is reaching out 00:22:29.200 --> 00:22:32.119 to me and being like, look, this, you know, Gone 00:22:32.119 --> 00:22:34.180 are the times where you list a job and then you 00:22:34.180 --> 00:22:36.240 just wait for somebody to apply. Those are, I 00:22:36.240 --> 00:22:38.180 love those deck. When those come back, I will 00:22:38.180 --> 00:22:40.900 be excited. Easy. It was great. And so those, 00:22:40.940 --> 00:22:43.819 that kind of goes hand in hand with those providers 00:22:43.819 --> 00:22:45.740 and practice managers that are still in that 00:22:45.740 --> 00:22:48.880 mentality. Why am I not getting an applicant? 00:22:49.039 --> 00:22:51.240 Why am I getting no candidates when a practice 00:22:51.240 --> 00:22:53.940 down the road is getting 16? He's not even a 00:22:53.940 --> 00:22:56.480 good dentist. Right, right. Yeah, he sucks all 00:22:56.480 --> 00:22:58.660 the time, all the time. But so that's kind of 00:22:58.660 --> 00:23:01.559 that shift too, which, you know, if, if I can 00:23:01.559 --> 00:23:04.500 get myself out there and be like, look, I, my 00:23:04.500 --> 00:23:08.710 goal is really to take that pressure off of because 00:23:08.710 --> 00:23:11.369 it's exhausting hiring somebody looking for someone's 00:23:11.369 --> 00:23:14.730 exhausting. So my mission is basically to alleviate 00:23:14.730 --> 00:23:16.910 those hiring headaches for practices, you know, 00:23:16.970 --> 00:23:20.289 allowing doctors and practice managers focus 00:23:20.289 --> 00:23:22.930 on dentistry, focus on your front office team, 00:23:23.349 --> 00:23:26.269 focus on back to the work life balance, focus 00:23:26.269 --> 00:23:28.789 on your family at home, like being able to kind 00:23:28.789 --> 00:23:34.680 of transition those duties onto me and That's 00:23:34.680 --> 00:23:37.480 where I come in and if you you know first start 00:23:37.480 --> 00:23:39.839 reaching out to me And then I give you kind of 00:23:39.839 --> 00:23:42.339 these ideas and you're like either goes one of 00:23:42.339 --> 00:23:45.319 two ways like absolutely not or Okay, tell me 00:23:45.319 --> 00:23:48.500 more. You know, that's where it can shift where 00:23:48.500 --> 00:23:51.759 it's you know, if you're just gonna be very Set 00:23:51.759 --> 00:23:54.079 in your ways and well, this is how I want. This 00:23:54.079 --> 00:23:56.099 is how I see my practice This is how which is 00:23:56.099 --> 00:23:58.700 great. I mean to be a practice owner any business 00:23:58.700 --> 00:24:02.059 owner. You need to have that drive you also have 00:24:02.059 --> 00:24:06.480 to be open to the constant shifting and the constant 00:24:06.480 --> 00:24:09.319 changing in the constant. This is just how to 00:24:09.319 --> 00:24:12.380 get not only, you know, you don't want just a 00:24:12.380 --> 00:24:15.559 body that you're at your practice. You want somebody 00:24:15.559 --> 00:24:17.460 who's actually going to fit and actually going 00:24:17.460 --> 00:24:20.039 to kind of take on that whole encompass of your 00:24:20.039 --> 00:24:22.440 practice. God bless you. It sounds like you're 00:24:22.440 --> 00:24:24.859 doing really hard work out there. It's, it's 00:24:24.859 --> 00:24:27.019 difficult, but it's, it's, you know, it's very 00:24:27.019 --> 00:24:30.500 rewarding though when you do get a lot of projects 00:24:30.500 --> 00:24:32.960 and clients come in and People are like, oh my 00:24:32.960 --> 00:24:35.960 gosh, like I can go home and just have dinner 00:24:35.960 --> 00:24:38.039 with my family and not even think about it. And 00:24:38.039 --> 00:24:41.140 I know what's taken care of. And, you know, it's, 00:24:41.240 --> 00:24:44.759 I build those relationships with not only clients 00:24:44.759 --> 00:24:48.220 and practices, but people who I've had speaking 00:24:48.220 --> 00:24:50.339 engagements with or people who I've interviewed 00:24:50.339 --> 00:24:52.099 in the past. And they're like, well, you know, 00:24:52.180 --> 00:24:53.579 maybe this one doesn't sound like a right fit, 00:24:53.619 --> 00:24:55.420 but keep me in mind for the next one. And then 00:24:55.420 --> 00:24:57.500 that's in my back pocket for the next office, 00:24:57.559 --> 00:25:01.180 you know? And so, yeah, it's. It's challenging. 00:25:01.599 --> 00:25:05.140 It's ever evolving. But I think kind of what's 00:25:05.140 --> 00:25:07.880 in my benefit a little bit too is that I have 00:25:07.880 --> 00:25:10.599 that clinical provider experience and front office 00:25:10.599 --> 00:25:13.519 experience. And so I kind of, I can see it from 00:25:13.519 --> 00:25:15.720 both ways where it's like, you know, what's reasonable 00:25:15.720 --> 00:25:18.440 as a provider, what's reasonable as to make a 00:25:18.440 --> 00:25:22.119 practice run. So lovely. Well, and thank you 00:25:22.119 --> 00:25:23.900 so much for your time. And if you're listening 00:25:23.900 --> 00:25:26.319 and you want to recruit a great team, you need 00:25:26.319 --> 00:25:31.609 to call Erin. Dental recruiters, I've thoroughly 00:25:31.609 --> 00:25:33.829 enjoyed talking to you and I love the grasp you 00:25:33.829 --> 00:25:36.970 have on the market because we're seeing this 00:25:36.970 --> 00:25:41.450 is the world we live in and you can hide and 00:25:41.450 --> 00:25:44.430 shrink or you can bear hug it and grow. But one 00:25:44.430 --> 00:25:46.450 way or another, it's happening. It's happening. 00:25:46.670 --> 00:25:49.069 And that's just it is you can dig your feet in 00:25:49.069 --> 00:25:52.440 or dig your heels in and say, I'm not changing. 00:25:52.640 --> 00:25:54.259 I'm going to stay in my ways. But ultimately, 00:25:54.380 --> 00:25:55.740 the world's, I mean, you're going to crumble 00:25:55.740 --> 00:25:59.019 under it. We got to stay ahead of it. You have 00:25:59.019 --> 00:26:02.700 to evolve. You do. Very well said. Yeah. Erin, 00:26:02.859 --> 00:26:05.160 thank you so much for your time. My pleasure. 00:26:05.460 --> 00:26:06.259 And that was your bite at dental marketing.