Okay, let's pray.
Father as we always do, we just pause a moment, turn the eyes of our heart towards you.
We want to thank you for your presence, Holy Spirit.
Thank you for your leadership.
We ask you, we invite you to lead, guide, and direct our conversation.
Bless us with your knowledge, with your wisdom, with your insight, with the power of your
energy that's at work energizing us with the knowledge of God, the things of God.
So we thank you.
We know it's your great joy and delight to share the things of God with us.
We want you to do that here among us this evening as you always do.
We're grateful for you.
It's in Jesus' name we pray.
Amen.
All right, I wanted to start off with a devotional.
And I'm going to be reading from the Gospel of John.
If you want to go there with me.
Now, one of the reasons I'm reading from John is to demonstrate how some of the concepts
that we're reading from Genesis are relevant to things found other places in the Bible.
So like when we're talking about the image of God, how the moral image of God has been
completely destroyed, God's grace has preserved some aspects of that within us.
You know, as Methodist, when we're talking about perfection, we're just talking about
the full restoration of the image of God, having it completely repaired.
And Wesley would say that whenever that happens, that's where we're the happiest.
Happiness and holiness are two sides of the same coin.
So I just wanted to read a little bit from John 14, some select verses, because the Holy
Spirit is the one who is working in us to bring about the restoration of the image of
God.
I also want to...
I would like for the body of Christ to really take ownership of what it means to be sons
and daughters of God.
I mean, there is so much power that's waiting to be appropriated when we take ownership
of our identity and begin acting like sons and daughters.
So I'm going to just read a few select verses from John 14, 15, and 16.
These are three of my favorite chapters of the Bible.
John chapter 14, 15, and 16.
I'm going to start in verse number 10.
John 14, Tony, is where I'm at.
Don't you believe that I am in the Father and that the Father is in me?
The words I say to you are not just my own, rather it is the Father living in me who is
doing his work.
Now, if you're born again, if you're filled with the Holy Spirit, that's true of you as
well.
Right?
There is energy and power that is awakening qualities in people to produce extraordinary
results.
Verse number 11, believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me,
or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves.
I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing.
He will do even greater things than these because I am going to the Father and I will
do whatever you ask in my name so that the Son may bring glory to the Father.
You may ask me for anything in my name and I will do it.
Now if you were to read chapters 14, 15, and 16 and count how many times that concept is
repeated, it would be almost like God is trying to slap us in the face and say, believe this,
do it, do it with conviction and you'll see amazing results.
And the patterns right there in creation.
God created things were in a state of chaos, God brought order to the chaos.
Then He created this nice space for humans, put them in the nice space and said, you tend
it and keep it and make the entire earth look like this.
So within every human being there are qualities that God wants to awaken by which we will
bring order to the chaotic world and make it a more beautiful place.
Now here's let's skip over to chapter 16.
Chapter 12, I have much more to say to you more than you can now bear, but when He, the
spirit of truth comes, He will guide you into all truth.
He will not speak on his own.
He will speak only what he hears and He will tell you what is yet to come.
What do you think of that?
That's why I'm here.
That's one of the jobs of the Holy Spirit.
You guys believe in spiritual gifts?
Words of wisdom, words of knowledge, gift of prophecy, you know, one of the jobs of the
Holy Spirit is to enlighten the eyes of our hearts so we can see things that we couldn't
see from a human perspective to give us direction towards whatever it is He wants us to do,
whatever blessing He wants to bring to the world.
And there are capabilities that are dormant within the body of Christ if she just took
ownership of her status as sons of God.
What a fully restored image bearer of God is capable of.
I mean just imagine what we could do.
You know, it's amazing.
Okay, let's discuss the creation of time and the God of the Eternal Now.
What did we think of this?
This was kind of a deep podcast.
I thought it was a different situation.
So don't be closed and Jesus said he was a liar.
Okay, so to me they weren't there from the dead.
They were there from their time to see the Savior from their time would be the future
but at the same time of God because it's all the same time God looking down at the whole
thing.
So again, they're not back from the dead.
They're just missing from their time maybe inhibition in their mind.
I don't think it's easy but I...
See I had never thought of that until you just brought it up.
I knew.
Well that's...
Two things to talk, physics.
I don't think it's physics.
No, no, no.
But anyway, that's when we were doing that.
That's what I thought.
And of course on a more simplistic thing I thought of what I thought was the future.
I remember the movie, he thought he hadn't made it but because he was going against the
turning of the earth he gained today and he was talking about...
You talked about that in the podcast.
The Interstellar.
Yes, again, it's just...
We have a concept of time but that's it.
God has no concept of time.
Well God has a concept of time but it's not the way we have a concept of time.
It's an interesting concept and there are some important theological implications to
that so you guys know what Calvinism is.
Philosophical determinism.
Okay, so Calvinism.
I'll give you the five points of Calvinism.
These are like...
So the early Methodists, this is a big deal, the Methodists.
The early Methodists were split between Calvinists and Arminians.
Okay, people who believe in philosophical determinism, God predestines everything that happens.
Okay, and people who believe in free will.
God's given people free will.
And there was a big debate between the Methodists over this controversy.
So Calvinism, the five points of Calvinism.
You can understand it by the acronym TULIP.
So T stands for total depravity.
Human beings are totally depraved.
Incapable of contributing anything to their salvation.
Their slaves to sin.
So Methodists would agree with that.
We don't disagree with them on the total depravity thing.
Next one is unconditional election.
God unconditionally elects those who are going to be saved
and those who are going to be damned apart from any merit on their part.
Limited atonement, Jesus only died for the elect.
He didn't die for the reprobate.
Irresistible grace, the grace of God that saves people.
You don't have a choice into whether or not you're getting saved.
It's irresistible.
So if God chose you, you're going to get saved whether you like it or not.
Same thing with the damned.
Even if you want to go to heaven, too bad you're not picked.
And then, perseverance of the saints, which is once saved always saved.
This is Calvinism kind of in a nutshell.
Now there's a big problem with that system of thought.
Calvinists, they love calling everybody that's not Calvinist a heretic.
They're like the worst heretic hunters in the church.
Because if you're Armenian, then they would say,
well you believe that you can save yourself.
There's something within you that's good.
You're not completely, you know, that's heresy, you know, whatever.
But they've got a bigger problem.
And it was Wolfgang Pannenberg that stated this.
If God looks down through the corridors of time and sovereignly,
if you ever hear somebody use the word sovereign a lot, it's probably a Calvinist.
Just like if you hear somebody use the word grace a lot, it's probably a Methodist.
God looks down through the corridors of time and he looks into the future
and he determines who's going to be saved and who's going to be damned.
Now, this is why the idea of God who does not exist in time and space is so important.
Because if God knows the future, and there is such a thing as the future from God's perspective,
Houston, we have a problem.
Because that places God within creation, not transcendent from creation.
And basically, you're teaching pantheism that God is a part of and within nature,
not transcendent from time.
So, if there is such a thing as the future from God's perspective,
that makes God subject to time.
So, yes, sir?
The first in the Bible is that five guys were in the A1 parish.
Jesus, I think, was saying that, it was a Paul.
I don't remember who said that, but it's not guys' wish that anyone in the parish.
That all be saved.
Yeah.
That gave you freedom.
You picked your story and you're going to be saved.
That's right.
And now we...
Yeah.
And it's also just kind of anybody with any type of common sense understands.
God did not predestine me to do that.
I chose to do that.
Right?
Now, technically, as Methodists, we do affirm total depravity.
We have a different solution to the problem.
So, with the image of God being...
moral image of God being destroyed in human beings,
we have no desire for God.
By nature, we have no desire for God.
We have no curiosity about God.
No desire to do good.
We're totally depraved.
We affirm that.
But we have this thing called Provenient Grace.
You guys heard that word before?
It's the grace of God that prepares us for salvation.
It's free for all. It's free to all.
It's free in all.
The proof text of that is John 1.9.
John 1.9, that light which enlightens every man has now come into the world.
So, we believe that Provenient Grace is irresistible.
It is unconditional.
It's for everyone.
And it enables free will in every human being.
Whether they want it or not, whether they ask for it or not.
Now, a person can make a shipwreck of their faith,
the faith that they've received,
and put themselves in worse bondage than you could imagine.
You know, people who've done that with illegal drugs
and all kinds of things
where they basically become slaves to whatever that thing is.
The Provenient Grace of God has provided every person with the grace that they need
to make a real decision for or against Jesus Christ.
A real decision.
It's not something coerced by God's sovereign choice.
So, anyways, the idea of a God who's transcendent from time
is an important concept, not only for that argument,
but for the, you know, if you take the argument against atheists that...
And you've heard me say this before many times.
I don't want to repeat myself, but everything comes from something.
And then that leads the atheists to say, well, where does God come from?
Okay, that's a physical law.
It's a law of nature.
God is not a part of nature, not subject to nature.
So that's a law that applies to the physical creation,
not a transcendent, uncreated God.
He's not subject to those laws.
So, any other questions about that podcast?
The creation of time and the God of the eternal now.
I really like retelling that story about David and K'ilah,
where David asks God, hey, is this going to happen?
And God says, yes, that's going to happen.
And come to find out, David makes some adjustments, and guess what?
It didn't happen.
We can change the future.
Through prophetic giftings, people who are prophetically gifted
can hear from God, and we can participate in creating a future
that avoids really bad things and produces really good things.
That's an important gift.
As a matter of fact, that's why Paul says in 1 Corinthians 14,
above everything else, covet the gift of prophecy.
What do you think of that, K'ilah?
That sounds good to me.
I agree.
Okay.
What about the Divine Council?
There's all kinds of questions.
Good. I was counting on that.
Well, yes, but I didn't like the mail in there, so maybe I don't know where to do it.
I pulled up some other stuff on what Christians believe and what they teach that's wrong,
and it mentioned the Great Council.
But in the Great Council, so the Council would exist before creation.
I would say yes.
Okay, so discussions in the Council almost makes you think that before Adam and Eve,
and I'm wondering just where the concept comes that there was a creation before that messed up,
and there was a new creation.
I'm not opposed to that type of idea,
not so much because of what's in the Bible,
but because of what's in the world that can't be explained.
I'm not saying I agree with that,
but something on the other thing I pulled up that brought to mind was that
looking at the Scripture and Genesis,
it tells Adam and Eve to refer it for a multiply,
and refer it for the fall.
And something that came up with the guy that was going to earth this was
that there could have been children born to Adam and Eve before Cain and Abel,
and that there could be all these other people that were there,
and then the fall came.
Now, there's nothing, I don't know how you could even...
You can't refer or deny that, either way.
But he did tell them to refer it for a multiply for the fall,
and I had never thought of that before.
Honestly, I hadn't either.
I know not all of their kids are named,
just certain important ones are named,
and throughout all of the genealogies.
What do you have?
70?
30 or something.
But when Cain gets expelled,
who is he afraid of?
There's not supposed to be any Eddie out there.
Why is he afraid?
We will cover that.
We will cover the options on that.
The idea of the Divine Council,
it's difficult to argue to me based upon everything in Scripture that it covers.
And what's important about that is it gives us a window
into how God is administering the affairs of the universe.
And he's doing it in partnership with his family members.
And that tells us that it gives us a window into how he wants to rule the earth.
So he rules the heavenly realm in conjunction with these beings,
because God enjoys relationship with all of his creation.
We all believe God enjoys a relationship with us.
God wants to do things with me and through me.
You guys agree with that?
And how God expects me to make contributions to the project.
That's part of why I have a free will.
And I have a creative energy.
God wants me to bring things to the equation that he looks at and says,
wow, I like that idea.
Let's do that.
I didn't hear from God, he heard from me.
God wants to hear from me.
So that's one of the things I like about that.
And you see that in Genesis chapter 2 whenever we get there.
God's bringing the animals to Adam.
It's like here I made these animals, you give it a name.
It's like some Christians, God probably told Adam what to name those animals.
No, he didn't.
Told Adam, you name the animal, that's your job.
Okay, question.
I can't remember if it was your podcast or the other thing,
which I cut him off the edge trying to find out.
Isn't that fun?
Are the angels, could they not be eternal either?
Because are there passages where it talks about they're at cancel that you are not,
that they could die also?
Yeah, that's Psalm 82.
They could die like men.
Okay, so I didn't know what to make of that.
Now we wouldn't call angels eternal because they are created beings.
So they're like us, they're immortal.
They're going to live forever, but they had a definite beginning.
God created the angels just like he created human beings.
Now what was the question, Tony?
Okay, there, sons of God.
Right, yep, yep.
I understood that for the first time.
I heard that and I always couldn't figure that out.
Can they, like when there's battles, and we know there's going to be battles,
do they kill each other?
I mean, how do they defeat each other?
You know, that's a good question.
Because...
They just sit down and throw them in it.
They're not.
They're not killed, they're bound.
It's kind of like the language that the Bible uses.
And so we have like, we're going to see the first incursion of these beings
in Genesis chapter six.
Likely the location of that was Mount Hermon,
and it says those beings that rebelled there, interestingly enough,
I'm kind of getting ahead of myself, but 200 of those beings rebelled,
the Bible's going to talk about the nations being disinherited from God
and given over to these beings.
How many countries on the earth do you think there are roughly?
About 200.
Isn't that interesting?
You're going to see...
We got a good one, whoever it is.
So you're also going to see some interesting numbers in Genesis chapter 10
when it does the Table of Nations.
There's going to be important symbology there.
But the language the Bible uses is like those beings were put in prison.
A prison, the New Testament uses the word Tartarus.
So you hear that word in Greek mythology, the Titans being imprisoned.
A lot of these stories are covering the same information.
Different names and names of the changed.
Yeah.
And sometimes the good guys and the bad guys are swapped.
But it talks about them being imprisoned.
And that's who Jesus goes to visit when he's in the grave.
You know that story?
Well, that came up too.
Okay.
It's fascinating.
That would be the land of the dead, not necessarily hell,
but the land of the dead, like a holding place for everybody to prove.
And again, this was brought up, not from you,
but it was interesting because you look at salvation in the Old Testament.
And one of the guys I read talked about how Jesus is like a credit card.
So the Old Testament people had salvation based on credit.
I've heard that.
And then we have it based on it's already been paid.
They'll need the credit.
So they look forward to it, we look back to it.
They were in this holding place, our paradise, and we talked about that.
I mean, this is all just so fascinating.
And I can't get a definite hold on any of it.
There was kind of two holding places though, right?
Yeah.
There was the good place and the bad place.
The good and the bad place.
So the good that were going to be brought up one day, right?
That would be the Old Testament.
See.
So yeah.
And it's ambiguous as to what Jesus was doing when he was in that place.
There's different opinions.
I'm not sure which one is right.
But some people say Jesus, well, Heiser would say that Jesus was down there functioning like the second Enoch,
reminding these beings that they've been defeated by him and they're still going to be in prison
and they're going to be doomed one of these days.
So I'm not sure I agree with almost everything else, Heiser.
I'm not sure I agree with that take.
But maybe.
Maybe that's right.
It's not that clear.
So anyway, there are concepts in the New Testament that you're just going to whiff on
if you don't get the supernatural storyline down.
So it's an important topic.
What else from the Divine Council?
I just didn't realize there were so many different types of angels and different subgroups.
I feel like, oh my God.
Yeah, an angel is not a class of being.
It's a job description.
Right.
And that's...
These are going to be important.
I believe that whenever the end time timeframe does go down,
these are going to be important concepts to be familiar with because we're likely going to see in our lifetime
things that have never been seen before, that are absolutely perplexing,
that will dupe massive numbers of people, believers included, into a deception.
But if we're informed, the book of Daniel says,
those who are wise will shine like the stars in the sky and lead many to righteousness.
So we're going to learn as we go throughout the Genesis 1 through 11,
these are beings that are not demons.
They're distinct from demons.
We're going to learn demons are the disembodied spirit of what the Bible refers to as the Nephilim or giants.
You've heard of giants.
But those are lower quality beings than what Paul describes as thrones, principalities, powers, and rulers.
These are a higher class of being that would have rebelled that can manifest themselves in a lot of different ways.
You said earlier that demons are not Paul and angels.
Correct.
That's a new concept to me.
That would be the book of Enoch would describe this as well as other Jewish sources, early church sources.
You'll find some of the early church fathers discussing this probably based on the book of Enoch, truth be told.
But whenever the sons of God married the daughters of men and the men of renown were born to them, giants,
what the Bible describes as giants, the disembodied spirits of those beings are the origin story of demons.
And so what's interesting, you see throughout the Old Testament, there's this war going on between the Jewish people,
the nation of Israel, and these giant clans.
And then in the New Testament, you see this war going on in the gospels between Jesus and the disciples and their disembodied spirits, demons.
And so it's like the same thing, the same battle.
And obviously we know Jesus was victorious.
And the Nephilim returned to Jesus in the dark.
Yeah.
And I read a part human origin.
So you need to use that class first.
It's confusing from what you said.
If you don't get this concept now.
And I've read that and it's, I'm not understanding.
I'll be honest with you, Tom.
I read the first six chapters real careful.
After that.
I read it all.
It's my body.
Yeah.
And there's other Jewish sources that shed light on some interesting things, you know, during that time frame.
But that's, that one's important because it's referenced three times in the New Testament.
It's quoted once in the New Testament.
It was found with the Dead Sea Scrolls.
It was debated as to whether or not it belonged in the canon, in the canonization process.
So it's an important book.
It probably shouldn't be in the canon, but it's still a important book.
Do you think it wasn't in the canon because the people who decided what went in and what did not,
oh that's a little too out there.
People misunderstand or we can walk.
No, because they all believed that stuff.
You know, it's not until...
No, the Book of Enoch was written before this.
I know, but I'm saying when they canonized the Bible, maybe they didn't believe that by that point.
Honestly, the supernatural view of those things would have still been the dominant view.
Probably, now there were dissenting voices probably around the Council of Nicaea,
but it's after the Council of Nicaea that the institutionalization of the church begins,
and that's when people try and start moving away from the mythology.
They wanted to distance themselves from Greek mythology because that was becoming out of fashion amongst the Greeks,
and so they tried to start finding natural explanations for a lot of these things.
But at the time of the Council of Nicaea, that still would have been...
the traditional view would have still been the dominant view, the supernatural view.
Okay, so you mentioned in the time of Jesus,
but modern Jesus doesn't accept the Book of Enoch at all from what I could find out,
because they think it's hereticable.
Is that a word?
You mean they're worth a doctor?
Yeah, because there's a man down there,
because there's a guy on YouTube and he goes through and look at you quite well.
Because something I read, whatever reasons why they couldn't accept it,
and I can't remember.
It's probably because they're prophecies of Jesus in the Book of Enoch.
Yeah, and so they're going to reject anything that smacks of Jesus Christ being the Messiah.
You know?
Okay, let me do this on the Divine Council, and I might cover this later,
but it bears repeating because this is an important concept
when we get to the Tower of Babel.
It's from Deuteronomy 32.
And I've got the NIV.
Does somebody have an English standard version?
Oh, yeah, if you can pull it up on your phone.
Deuteronomy 32 verse 7.
And I learned to read this from Heiser because the NIV does some fast work with the translation
because it's trying to soften the meaning of the text.
So you'll see translators a lot of time trying to help us do our thinking for us
because you can't handle the truth.
And of course Heiser says you need to read this verse in the ESV
because they actually translate it correctly.
Remember the days of old, consider the years of many generations,
ask your Father and He will show you your elders and they will tell you.
Keep going.
When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance,
we need divided mankind, and He fixed the borders of the peoples
according to the number of the sons of God.
And then one more verse.
But the Lord's portion is His people, Jacob has allowed heritage.
Okay, so a lot of heritage.
It's talking about God dividing up the peoples into nations.
Now if you read the NIV according to the number of the sons of Israel is what it says,
which is not correct.
According to the number of the sons of Benai Ha Elohim, sons of God.
Mine says, I interpret it as a re-separating the sons of a man.
Benai Ha Elohim, it's the exact same phrase as you'll find in Genesis 6.
When the Most High gave the nations their inheritance,
when He divided all mankind, He set up boundaries for the people.
According to the number of the sons of Israel, then the next verse makes sense.
This verse is talking about God giving nations over to the gods they wanted to worship.
Which were different from Him.
And then here's what He says,
but the Lord's portion is His people, Jacob has a lot of inheritance.
So God, you'll see in the table of nations,
these nations are being disinherited by God.
And that's why right after Genesis 11, the story of Abraham starts.
Because God is giving these nations over to the worship of the gods that they want to worship.
But He's saying, Abraham, you and I are going to start over,
and I'm going to create a people just for myself.
Jacob is Israel. That's just a metaphor for Israel.
And so that's where God is going to start the reclamation process
from disinheriting the nations that wanted to worship these other gods.
Yes, sir?
Jacob then is the first official Jew.
Okay.
Then his 12 children are the continuation of the Jewish race.
So I guess Jacob is really the first official Jew.
Because he has the 12 sons.
He did say that Jacob is the allotment of his inheritance.
Jacob was a people and he was changed to the real name of God.
Yeah.
He wrestles.
Because God, when He made Abraham, Abraham was made to set up many nations
and here you've got the heirs, you've got all these others.
And they claim him as their father to this day.
So I think Jacob is the first official Jew.
The first official Jew.
Okay.
So, we're ready to move on to the next topic.
Are we done with the Divine Council?
I don't think that's a test.
Now, you'll find that's relevant.
When it comes to the message of the Gospel,
go into all the world,
preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom, right?
And what does it say in Matthew 24?
This Gospel of the Kingdom will be preached in the whole world and then the end will come.
We're in partnership with God through Jesus Christ to reclaim those lost territories
and the people that populate those territories.
We have authority to do that.
This is one of the things that's very clear in the New Testament.
Jesus gives his disciples the authority to go kick out the usurpers and take over.
Right?
So, you'll see in Acts where the Holy Spirit falls and you see men from this nation and that nation.
Another thing Dr. Heiser points out,
every one of those nations mentioned in Acts is the same nations you'll find in the table of nations in Genesis chapter 10.
So, God is beginning the reversal of that disinheritance and that curse and God is reclaiming the nations.
So, it's a fascinating story, really.
Relevant to understanding the entire Bible.
Okay, what about the image and likeness of God?
The most interesting thing about the idols, and I've always thought they worship the idols.
What if it's in your front?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You should have soundtrack.
Sell them.
Because all they were in an ancient's mind, they were an image of God that they could use to get to God.
Right. It would draw their attention, their energy.
Which really is like when Aaron did the golden calf, I mean I've always thought of this.
He was trying to give them a visual to help them worship God.
I mean he was wrong in doing it.
I think that's what he was trying to do because that's what he understood.
Egypt's gods.
Right.
Yeah, right.
Did what was familiar?
What could rally the people?
Boost the morale.
But that's again going back to what we read from John chapter 14 and 16.
When we bear the image of God, people are just capable of more than they think they are.
When it comes to the supernatural abilities, the divine energies of God.
And we know how Jesus used those energies.
Right.
He says, everything that I've done, you will be capable of also.
Where are we falling short?
Where do you think?
You know, we've been so brainwashed with secular materialism in our public schools and our culture to disbelieve the supernatural realm that it's because of our unbelief.
But most churches we've been to, they don't even touch on it. You skip all of that part of it.
I didn't even know it was there.
Yeah.
And it just really quickly gets right over there.
That's such a mistake because you turned the Bible into this neuter document.
It's a mistake, but it's because of the abuses of other churches that either do it wrong or distort it.
That's another point. So even touching on the idea and using the vocabulary of other gods will trigger.
We'll say we'll use the word fundamentalist evangelicals.
Again, as distasteful as a lot of the things were in the United Methodist Church,
I prefer an atmosphere where we're free to think and let think rather than people who have knee-jerk reactions to things because they're scared.
They're scared of talking about it.
You know, so as many problems as the United Methodist Church had,
I prefer that atmosphere of thinking, let think to heretic. That's heresy.
You know, so they're afraid.
That's right.
They're afraid of the power.
They're afraid of the, well, let's just say it.
Because I've been in this world, the charismatic and gobbledygook, you know, and I am charismatic.
So, but I also know that world is full of flakes, fruits and nuts, you know, and they're afraid of weaker Christians getting a hold of these ideas
and going sideways with them into like, let's say, occult stuff, you know, or...
I'm afraid. I used to work at a church camp.
Okay.
And one week out of the year we had a Pentecostal.
I mean, it was Baptist church camp, but we needed extra funds and we had an extra week.
Their money's just as good as the Baptist money, isn't it?
That's right. I mean, it was fine. So we didn't have to go to their service. We went to ours, but we could.
And I would go and I would find it very interesting.
But I would see people get so wrapped up in the action.
It's almost like they forgot about Jesus.
And that's what I observed. And then I realized why we did not push that as much.
So, because I saw he could be, which not that we didn't abuse other things as all groups do.
Right.
That really stood out to me.
That it was kind of put on, manufactured.
And that the people were putting their faith in that and not in God. That's what I observed.
Gotcha.
Maybe that's a false.
No. No.
They were looking for the...in the same way, and I was very span-ful, in that you walk an aisle,
and that there were some people that thought walking an aisle saved them.
That's ridiculous.
Right.
But there could be people that would look at the experience and they put their faith in the experience instead of into Jesus.
So, I mean, everyone can abuse this.
Sure.
Sayin' a prayer.
Right.
The Romans road.
If you'll just confess with your mouth and believe in your heart.
Well, that's true.
But...
The authenticity of that has to be borne out with follow-through.
Right.
So...
Okay.
Let's talk about the charismatic thing.
So, I've said this.
You know, I've always felt like I was able to see where God was going with the church.
It's like, man, the church really needs this.
And lo and behold, five years later, there's somebody doing it and they're doing it really awesome.
You know, and it's kind of spreading like wildfire.
Like, I remember being in seminary, and I'd have those all-night conversations with friends,
you know, where you solve all the problems in the world.
And I was like, man, if we could just record this and share it with people, this would be...
Well, it's just a podcast.
That's what people do in podcasts, you know?
And I believe the next thing, the next big project for the body of Christ is a full restoration
of New Testament Christianity, which entails three legs.
That's going to stand on three legs.
Theological orthodoxy, which is holiness of heart and mind.
It's both of those things.
Apostolic order, which is a body of believers that's connected in accountability to a higher office.
Okay? There's order and unity brought to the church through a connection to established authority.
And then the last one is supernatural manifestations of the Holy Spirit.
Now, what I've just described to you is New Testament Christianity.
And if you don't have all three of those things in place, you do not have New Testament Christianity.
And so this is what you've seen throughout church history.
You've got churches or groups or denominations that do one of those things really well,
but they neglect the other two.
You know, like Charismatics and Pentecostals.
They get the supernatural manifestations and a lot of that stuff is real,
but it's like a bunch of chickens running around with their head cut off.
There's absolutely no order to it.
There's no theological substance to it.
You've got places like the Methodist Church.
We have an apostolic order established in an Episcopal form of church governments that's rooted in history.
But the power of God left us a hundred years ago.
And we allowed theological gobbledygook to creep in and we became apostate in our theology.
And then you've got groups that really made you on the Bible and getting their theology right,
but they're just not very...
They're not people that you'd want to hang out and have a beer with.
Right?
So I think that's something that God wants to do because you look at the American church.
It's the Wild West.
There's no order or cohesion to it.
And we have to...
I think we're going to go through a phase where we have to kind of reintegrate.
What is there?
The number is anywhere from 33,000 to 45,000 different Protestant denominations.
It's just...it's the Wild West.
And I believe before Jesus winds things up,
he wants to reestablish proper New Testament Christianity.
And a part of that is going to be people learning how to stir up the energies,
the uncreated energies of God, which are made available to us through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit,
through the Holy Spirit.
I am connected to that supernatural realm and I can manifest things that are beyond human ability.
But you have to learn how to grab hold of that, you know?
And so this is why I don't...
I don't turn my nose up too much at Charismatics and Pentecostals
because at least they're going for it.
Even if it's fake, at least they're going for it.
You know, versus people who are just completely uninterested in the power of God.
The supernatural power of God.
The gifts of the Holy Spirit.
So...
What did he say?
He spoke something along that line that, you know, you've got a power inside you that, you know, you need to basically...
Learn how to stir it up.
And that's...so that's the thing.
I know how to squeeze that out and get a sense of the presence of God when I pray.
And you can tell somebody who doesn't because they sound really boring when they're praying.
In simpler terms, isn't that though what he taught in the parables, you know, in the greatest and the most greatest in the kingdom of heaven?
He had all the disciples sitting there and they asked that because they were all gobbledy-gooby even back then.
And what did he do? He grabbed the kids.
And he said, no one's a traitor in heaven.
No one's an inter-gengal ever.
They don't like his child.
Who isn't skeptical?
In short terms, what you were just saying.
Who doesn't? Question authority?
Who is open to wonder and mystery and belief?
Yeah. I think that's exactly right.
I mean, that's what it means.
Yeah.
There was a church standing there and they were still confused and he just grabbed the child and said, this is it.
And I think learning whenever you pray to refuse to come out of there unless you've really gotten in contact with God.
You know?
Refuse to get out of there unless you really have gotten in contact with God.
Just quit and move on down the road and watch Oprah on TV.
Whatever people watch on TV nowadays, I only watch YouTube.
Before you go on to do what you're going to do, it's like I am going to get a tangible sense of the manifest presence of God in my spirit.
And I can feel it. I know what it is when I feel it. I can experience it.
And it takes some effort. I'm going to put some energy into it.
You know, versus...
God, I just pray for...
Every sick person you can think of, amen.
You know? And that's how the body... that's how Methodists pray.
I've been to 100 different Methodist churches.
All the sick people we can think of, amen.
You realize there's way more to this than all of the sick people that you know.
I'd like to know that he knows what I want to say, and I don't really have to say it.
Because I'm not a good person.
This is why I pray in tongues.
Because the Bible says when you do that,
you edify yourself.
That word means to build up, to strengthen, to fortify.
The energies of God are flowing to pray things.
I don't know what I need to pray.
But then also ideas come to mind in the process of doing that.
I get ideas.
Because that energy...
When I get those ideas, don't say, when did you say that?
Well, listen. That energy...
That energy, it bears fruit in your mind.
And it says that explicitly in 1 Corinthians 14.
I pray with my spirit. I also pray with my mind.
There are things that come to you.
It's not just your cells going off in your brain that become manifest in my consciousness.
Prophecy works the same way.
You're getting information from the unseen realm and some type of receptors
that your consciousness grabs hold of and you're able to communicate it.
Let me ask you this about tongues.
When you pray in tongues,
it's my understanding that if I just pray out loud,
then sighting and everyone else can hear it.
And as long as it's still within me, sighting can't access it.
Is that correct?
I don't know about that.
I've never really majored on that theme.
So the next part of that is...
So when we pray in tongues, it goes straight to the throne room.
And sighting can't touch it.
I've heard that argument made.
I feel like there's a lot more to it than that.
And when you're praying in tongues,
sometimes I feel right.
You're praying in an heavenly language.
Not in an earthly language.
Because you get the tongue to be speaking in an earthly language,
but in an heavenly language.
It just means languages.
So like in 1 Corinthians 13, Paul's speaking,
he says, if I can speak with the tongues of men
or with the tongues of angels.
Same word.
It's ick so.
Glossalia.
Yeah.
But...
It's about learning to appropriate the energies of God.
Energamaton is the Greek word that's used
in order to manifest supernatural results.
So you know, the Bible lists all kinds of gifts of the Holy Spirit.
Gifts of miracles, healing,
words of wisdom, words of knowledge,
prophecy, praying in tongues,
the gift of interpreting tongues.
All kinds of gifts that the ones mentioned
don't have any natural explanation.
Okay, but the gift of the Spirit speaking in tongues,
is there a language, is that necessarily a gift of God,
or is that a separate thing?
Well, it says in 1 Corinthians 14,
whenever someone speaks in a tongue,
they speak not to men, but to God.
And so that's what we call prayers
and speaking to God, right?
And no man understands him.
Now, I do understand that some people recognize the distinction
between being supernaturally empowered to speak Spanish,
to Spanish-speaking people,
which is probably a real thing.
But we're just talking about a private practice
by which I can stay tuned up
in my connection with the divine energies
that are available through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit
to every believer, you know?
And exercising muscles to stay connected
and tuned up in divine power, supernatural power.
So...
I know what you're saying, and no.
Now, if that were to be...
If I were really getting intense about it,
then it's just a matter of me getting intense and feeling, you know?
And I do try and get a little bit of intensity every time I pray,
even if I'm just worshiping God.
I'm just like,
I'm getting intensity every time I pray,
even if I'm just worshiping God.
I'm not being lazy about it.
I'm not letting myself get bored.
People let themselves get bored
because they're not trying, you know?
And that's why I don't understand...
I don't understand, Lord Christians.
I mean, I get it's hard,
but if you're bored,
you're not doing it right, you know?
And that's another thing.
You haven't developed your spiritual imagination.
You know, Jesus talks about giving them eyes to see
and ears to hear, right?
I'm not talking about your literal eyes and ears, obviously.
It's the faculties of your imagination,
which the Holy Spirit can paint amazing pictures
on your imagination.
If you'll just submit them to Him
like a little child with openness,
without skepticism, trusting God is moving and working,
He can paint amazing pictures on your imagination
that will get you excited about things.
So, you know, they used to say
that the imagination was the devil's playground.
So, you're not doing it right.
The imagination is the Holy Spirit's playground, you know?
And, you know, you have to have all of your paint sets
and art tools.
You have to have those accumulated.
But once you do...
I have a question.
Is that the name of the word that was said on the first?
The what?
The name of the word?
I probably don't pronounce it right.
S-A-R-U-M.
No.
I'm not into prayer.
I'm just talking about that being in your imagination
and stuff where God be in my head
and contemplating God.
Contemplative prayer.
It's 2 Corinthians 3.
Beholding the glory of God,
we are transformed from glory to glory.
It's beholding.
What are we beholding God with?
My imagination.
My consciousness, you know?
Are we done?
It's 7 o'clock.
What do we do?
Okay.
So we're going to cover next week.
Thank you, Shannon.
The Dominion Mandate,
which will finish up chapter 1.
And then the Sabbath Rest of God,
which will cover chapter 2.
And then we'll get into the problem of evil.
Yes, ma'am.
And then let's read chapter 2 as well.
Right.
I was not intentionally curious.
But I learned to take it.
Okay.
So here's my curiosity.
So are you planning to
expand this study of Genesis
beyond the projected time?
No, I plan on getting you're done.
Oh, okay.
That's from the person that shows up at 10 till 7.
Are you saying that because we're...
I've been cleaning the kitchen.
Now listen, so just chapter 1,
that's a lot of...
We've been there a long time.
But once we get to, like, the flood of Noah,
I'm not going to spend a lot of time on the flood of Noah.
You got genealogies in there, you know.
So it'll...
We'll be able to do it.
Yeah.
Next Wednesday?
Next Wednesday is Ash Wednesday.
So we will not have class next Wednesday.
But, well, I'll probably...
I'm glad you mentioned that.
We'll still cover that content that I just told you.
Maybe let's add...
Let's add the Hawaiian what behind the serpent character.
And that'll give you two weeks worth of...
And Genesis chapter 3.
So that'll give you two weeks worth of Genesis to cover.
Is there a service?
Ash Wednesday.
It's a Methodist thing.
Tell me, even your first Methodist...
I don't know what we're doing.
I'll bear first with you.
It'll be like a solemn church service.
I'll wear my robe.
And we'll have communion.
We'll have altar time where you'll have the imposition of the ashes on your forehead.
And...
Six o'clock.
All about going through the whole work of Genesis.
It makes sense to do that.
I'm open to that.
Troy is going to start a class in June.
So we may consider doing that starting in the fall.
What's his plan?
He's going to do one on the articles of religion.
Correct. The 25 articles.
Which I know probably sounds kind of boring, but I'm sure the way Troy does it,
it's going to be...
I plan on going to the class, so I'm sure it's going to be interesting.
He's a really interesting guy.
He's going to do a class in the summer.
Yeah.
It's supposed to last six months.
Six month class.
I'm going to be a minute.
I tried this.
You're sure you can't...
No, I need to do six months.
Okay.
He's going to do it weekly or monthly?
Weekly.
Yeah.
Come on.
So in addition to night sweets, Ash Wednesday service, we're doing drop through at noon.
And then at four.
Are we going to do it at four?
Whatever you tell me to do.
Yeah.
So we started here in COVID, and we have half of the people that came do not go to this church.
They went to drive through ashes.
That was a tradition, and then we get to pray over them and pass out blessings.
That would be a good outreach.
I don't feel comfortable doing drive through communion, but I don't mind doing it.
Drive through ashes.
We can do it for a couple of times.
We can work.
Work and what?
Okay, let me pray this out of here.
Father, thank you for helping us to continue to explore the mysteries of God, the things
of the spirit, our own identity.
There is so much more to us than what we've embraced.
Holy spirit continue to open the eyes of our heart, open our ears so that we can hear
and see in reality, in their fullness, the amazing things that is available to the children,
the sons and daughters of God.
So awaken in us our ancient and amazing identity and destiny as children of God.
So we thank you for helping us, helping us in our weakness, helping us in our unbelief,
helping us to let go of skepticism, fear of negative judgment, embrace all that we are.
We thank you that you help us and empower us with your grace to lay hold of everything
we are called to be so that we can do everything we are called to do.
Thank you.