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All right.

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Welcome fellas.

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The first podcast I've done with four people.

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So what an honor to have you guys.

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And we're out here at Cedar Glen near Cedar Canyon, south of Canyon, Texas, having a retreat.

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We've had a great time, had some great conversations, and we just wanted to finish our little retreat

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off.

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Just talking about some of the things we've discussed.

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So now the only person we don't know is this guy right here, Steve Pogue.

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Am I saying your name right?

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That's it.

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All right.

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So why don't you tell us a little bit about who you are, where you're from, all that kind

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of stuff.

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My name is Steve.

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I currently live in Tulsa with my wife and children.

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And yeah, I'm involved in ministry, just serving the Lord and purposing to be diligent in the

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things he's put in front of us.

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And that looks like a lot of different things, but currently the moment we serve in our church

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and yeah, it's good times.

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All right.

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Praise God.

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Well we've been all over the map with our conversations.

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We've wrestled the whole retreat with what are we going to talk about?

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What do we want to kind of put on record as something important that we've discussed?

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So let me start off by asking you guys, what is one of the things that we've talked about

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that has stuck out to you as something we really need to continue a conversation about?

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I think that's one of the most important things we can do.

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We haven't solved any problems, right?

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Since we've been here, but we've started conversations about things that need to be solved or that

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need to be teased out or worked out.

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And so anything in particular, we'll start with you Ross, that we've discussed that you

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feel like we need to work on more.

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Well I think that we've talked about the big picture, which piggybacks on a message that

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you preached at First Methodist, and understanding that it's time for us to be adults, to feed

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on strong meat and no longer milk, and understand that Jesus is returning.

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We'll have a part to do with Him, for Him, during the thousand year millennial reign.

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And all of it is for one purpose, so that God can walk in the garden with us again,

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like He did in the Garden of Eden.

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So a couple of things from there, and this is something that Steve and I have kind of,

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it's been reawakened.

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It's been in our repertoire of ideas for decades, but something that's been reawakened is the

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ministry of preparation.

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So the body of Christ isn't where she needs to be, and in order for that to happen, God

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always raises up people with a ministry of preparation.

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And so God does want the body of Christ to move into a new place, because He says that's

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going to have to happen before the return of Jesus Christ.

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At the return of Jesus Christ there will be a bride who has made herself ready.

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And the ministry of Elijah, the forerunner, the preparer, is raised up to make straight

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paths for God's agenda to come on the scene.

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And so I think that's a vital ministry that you need to identify and embrace so that the

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agenda can move forward on straight paths.

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So yeah, that's a good one.

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What about you Troy?

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What stands out to you?

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I have really enjoyed our discussions about how important sanctification is in our walk

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of faith.

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You know, the Bible talks about we were predestined to be conformed into the image of His Son.

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If you are called by His name, then we are called to be more and more like Jesus.

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And what that takes is a sanctification process that is not always fun.

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It's not always comfortable.

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It's not always something we're going to choose.

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But the outcome of it, if it means being more like Him and more equipped to do the work

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that we're called to do, then we need to stop rebelling against it.

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We need to accept it.

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But tying into what you were saying, leaders need to teach the body that this is a part

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of life now.

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Us becoming more like Christ and less like us is what we are called to do.

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It's not just a free ticket out of hell when we say the sinner's prayer and get baptized.

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Now we're placed in the body as He has chosen us to be for a work He has prepared beforehand

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that we should walk in them.

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And sometimes that's going to take you being different than what you came.

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It's going to be you being more like Him and less like you.

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And I think the importance of that is something that a lot of places are missing.

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And I think you mentioned it earlier, because it's not taught enough that we are going to

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go through these trials and tribulations and these times of testing to improve our faith

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and improve ourselves and to make us more sanctified and separated to God.

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Because it's not preached, when it happens, the body's not ready.

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They're not prepared.

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They're not prepared.

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And who does that fall on?

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That's right.

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Who does that fall on?

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Yeah.

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Well, and so that is vital.

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What happens, I think, where we're at, because we don't know what direction to go as the

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church and we're trying to find our way, a lot of times we get stuck.

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We get stuck as individuals in our sanctification.

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And I think what's lacking in our circles is a lack of awareness of and openness to

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the ministry of the Holy Spirit.

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When we get stuck, it's the power of the Holy Spirit that comes to get us unstuck.

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And we really need to lean in to impress into and take ownership of, again, the ministry

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and the activity of the Holy Spirit.

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You and I had several conversations about this on our drive down about how important

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the gifts and the ministry and the functions of the Holy Spirit are in the body of Christ

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to keep her moving forward.

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And I talked about we're not just being sanctified as individuals.

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We're being sanctified as a church.

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And God is interested in both of those things.

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If the church isn't sanctified, the individuals are going to get stuck.

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If the individuals are stuck, so is the church.

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And so it's really an important topic.

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And it goes with what Ross was saying, that people have to be prepared, educated, and

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equipped to identify, to be open to, to have confidence in the reality of the Holy Spirit

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and His work among us, what He wants to do.

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So what about you, Steve?

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Well, just to continue that theme, I was thinking about the scripture in Ephesians chapter 5

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where Paul's admonition starts off to the family, but it shifts very quickly.

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He says, husbands love your wives as Christ loved the church and gave Himself up for her,

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that He, now He shifted her, He's not talking about husbands.

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He's talking about Christ, that He might sanctify her, the her being the church, having cleansed

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her by the washing of the water with the word so that He might present the church to Himself

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in splendor without spot or wrinkle or any such thing that she might be holy and without

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blemish.

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And the singular message of sanctification, of course, has a corporate application.

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And I think that's really where this ministry, this forerunning ministry is, I believe that's

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where if we could take a step back and look at the macro application, that's where we're

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really seeing the Holy Spirit moving.

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It always comes down to our individual address, but too often times we've tried to figure

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out the things of God by looking at my individual self and my world and then trying to work

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it up to the big picture.

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And that's where a lot of skew comes in.

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We get lost in that transition.

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But if we start off what we know the Lord is doing at a macro level, at the high level

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with what is Jesus doing in the church?

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Well, He's always been doing this, but if there was ever a time that we see, man, this

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is the work that is at hand, it's certainly the work that's needed.

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It is now.

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And I found it interesting where it says, having cleansed her by the washing of the

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water with the Word so that He might present the church to Himself.

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So He's personally vested in this process of macro sanctification, if we could call

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it that, where the church is being woken up, awakened to her purpose and what that really

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is.

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And I wouldn't even say this, the church, I believe, is being awakened into this hour

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kind of like Esther in the sense that Esther, once she became queen, she still wasn't aware

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there was a reason why the Lord had allowed her to become queen.

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And the church hasn't really understood why the Lord has chosen her as His bride, and

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we've kind of made it about us.

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But just like Esther found out, Esther, it really wasn't for you, it was for a deliverance

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that heaven had at hand.

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And I believe the church is waking up to the fact that there's a bigger picture than just

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the princess at the ball called the church.

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Because actually the bride accompanies a groom, and a bride without a groom isn't married,

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right?

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And so the church is waking up to get her focus off of herself and onto the groom, because

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that's where the eyes of the bride need to be in this hour.

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And I believe that's part of what the sanctification process is working, that waking up, that shifting

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of the gaze off of ourself, off of the significance of what we think of ourself.

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We could go down a micro rabbit trail of, we have way too many, in my opinion, we have

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way too many superstars in the church today, specifically in the Church of America.

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It's hard to recognize the ministry of Jesus Christ in a lot of superstar-type structures

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of churches where people know the names of the leader or the worship team or things that

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are all good, but they're not the groom.

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And they're not the point.

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Anyway, before I start preaching.

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Well, okay, so one of the conversations that we had, I've been explaining what being filled

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with the Holy Spirit looks like from a Wesleyan perspective.

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And so one of the things the holiness tradition will point out is how the disciples acted

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before they were filled with the Holy Spirit, how they acted after they were filled with

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the Holy Spirit.

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Before they were filled with the Holy Spirit, they were bickering over who was greatest.

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Right?

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Father, grant me and my brother to sit at your right hand and your left hand.

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Right?

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After they're filled with the Holy Spirit, they're not focused on themselves.

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Their weaknesses are their strengths.

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They forget about themselves and they're only focused on the mission.

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And so what you said was important because I think this is probably one of the biggest

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diseases plaguing the church is an excessive focus on me, my image, my audience, my platform.

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And we're talking about leaders now.

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Yeah.

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But I would, I would argue church members do the same thing.

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Oh, well, as the leader goes, so go the followers.

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That's right.

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And I honestly think if the church is going to be filled with the Holy Spirit and prepared

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for, she's going to have to get to a place where she forgets about herself.

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What's in it for me, protecting my market share, growing my audience and really focus

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on how do we please Jesus in every way that we're organizing ourselves, spending our money,

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you know, organizing volunteers for ministry, that type of thing.

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So which is a lead-in to another topic that I felt like, and we just kind of scratched

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the surface, but what is real biblical discipleship that has the maturing of the bride as an end

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result in mind or in view, in plain view?

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And so I think that's an area that church leaders haven't wrestled with to the degree

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because what we've done, unfortunately, in much of at least Western church world is we've

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made, and I don't think this has always been the intention, but we've too often made followers

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of personalities or church members and not followers and disciples of Christ.

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And that is a big challenge.

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Typically people want to follow the crowd.

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They want to be a part of the action.

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And discipleship, it's been my experience, what we're short on is time.

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So we think about making disciples, think about how Jesus made disciples.

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They went with him every, they were always with Jesus.

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And there's just no substitute for spending significant amounts of time around people.

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Proximity.

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Yeah, who can shape us and mold us.

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And going back to making the church a higher priority, it's a two-way street.

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The church needs to get focused on the right things so people will be willing to commit

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time and invest the time and the energy and the effort into what the church is doing.

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And people will do that if the church is focusing on the right things.

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Can I simplify it a little bit?

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Yeah.

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Because I think this will help a lot.

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If nobody, as a leader, if nobody in your church can do what you do, you're not discipling.

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It's about you.

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That's the way I see it.

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We are supposed to be training people up to do the work of ministry.

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Not just feeding.

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And don't get me wrong, feeding is important.

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And feeding the body, the scriptures, and the knowledge of moving in the Holy Spirit

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and understanding righteousness and holiness, these are very important topics.

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But that's not what we're all called to do.

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We're supposed to be discipling.

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And so we should be training people up to do the very thing we're doing because we can

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only reach so many people.

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But if I bring up three or four guys and they're doing the exact same thing I'm doing, we're

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now reaching four or five times more people than what I would do on my own.

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Let me say that in another way.

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If all you're doing is feeding the sheep, your ministry already has an expiration date

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on it.

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See, if Jesus functioned like that when He walked the earth, His ministry would not have

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extended past His death.

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In other words, there wouldn't have been a quote unquote disciple to carry on.

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There wouldn't be a New Testament Church of Jesus Christ because He was reproducing in

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them who He was.

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You know, as you're sitting here listening, I just, I just, I couldn't help but think,

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maybe the Lord is challenging us in this hour because of what it is.

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And you know, we have to, we have to find the way this works at ground zero where we

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live, but maybe greater proximity in the discipleship process is something the Lord wants to bring

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back in vogue, so to speak.

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Yeah, and that's challenged by the hustle and bustle of modern life, right?

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Absolutely.

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But God is, He promises us He's going to send us Elijah before the great and awesome day

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of the Lord to turn the hearts of fathers back to the children and the hearts of children

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back to the fathers.

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Now, I believe that has an application to the literal family unit.

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I do with the breakdown in the family that we have, but ultimately it's about people

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having their hearts turned back towards their brothers and sisters.

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The family of God in Christ and really caring about community and not just national politics

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or what's going on with the economy, you know, just really caring about deeply about the

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people around them.

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And it's not that those places don't have or those things don't have some place or some

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significance, but they're not the compass that we're setting the ship to.

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That's not the, that's not the direction that we're pointing because ultimately the kingdom

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of God or the kingdoms of men will become the kingdoms of our God and His Christ.

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So it's not going to be the other way around.

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We're not going to morph the kingdom into the politics of men.

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But if we do this right, at some point, the kingdom of men become the kingdoms of God

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and Christ.

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Right on.

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One thing in 2024, as we sit here, the church as we know it is dying.

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The parking lots are not full.

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The pews aren't full and people aren't coming.

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But people are still going places, going to the nightclubs, the sporting events, the shopping

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malls, the grocery stores.

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But the church is the training up room, if you will.

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And we've got to get to the business of training up so that ministry can happen.

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And really, the ministry is not Sunday morning.

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I think Steve kind of been talking about that.

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It's what you do when you leave the church.

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And you've been talking about that as you minister to people where they are.

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And as you do that, then people become curious.

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Where did you learn that?

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Where did you get that from?

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How did you get that?

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How do you do that?

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And so then they want what you have, but it's time that the adult daycares are no longer

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adult daycares.

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And it's time that the church is not synonymous with an adult daycare, but yet it's a place

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of filling up to go out to work.

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Traditionally, we meet to eat and eat to meet and then we go and we come back to meet, eat

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again.

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And we're interested.

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What are we doing outside of pacifying ourselves and entertaining ourselves?

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The harvest is plentiful, but the laborers are few.

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And I've been so blessed under your ministry to realize and understand that if there are

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only five people in the church that are being discipled so that they can go out and make

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more disciples.

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Because as you said, after Jesus died, then what happened?

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Well, we got the apostles, the disciples, we got Paul.

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And what did Paul do?

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Paul's sitting, he's sitting in jail and in jail, he's writing letters to the different

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churches and different geographical areas.

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And we've got to get back to that to where we are going out to do ministry.

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Ministry is not Sunday morning as we worship God and as we hear God.

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That's the supper, if you will.

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The equipping phase.

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Say again?

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The equipping phase.

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The equipping phase so that we can go out and do the work.

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And the reality is that America is hurting, the world is hurting, America is confused,

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the world is confused, the church is confused.

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Nobody's doing anything other than hurting.

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I want to tell you a story, okay, about how my experience speaks to, you know, we talk

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about ministering to people in the quay.

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What does that look like?

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You know, people wonder, what am I supposed to be doing?

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So I was a student at the University of Oklahoma.

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I was living a fun life, but there was these guys from Campus Crusade for Christ that would

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come knocking on my door time to time, trying to get me to come to Bible studies.

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And which I appreciated, I would go to their Bible studies and I would attend and I was

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not a socially dynamic personality, you know.

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I was not socially well connected.

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And so I think after a certain point, these guys kind of got frustrated because the group

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wasn't growing.

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You know, I wasn't trying to reach anybody because I didn't know anybody.

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And so eventually I got a phone call one day from one of these guys.

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You know, Kendall, we just want to say we thank you for, you know, attending our groups,

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but we think we're going to move on.

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We're going to shift our focus to the fraternities and go try and reach out to the fraternities.

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And that's where we feel like the Lord wants us to focus our ministry, you know.

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And so what you see there is mixed motives.

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And I think this is the thing that turns people off with churches, are the mixed motives.

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They're doing ministry based upon the perspective of what's in it for me.

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How can I build my ministry, build a big group, you know.

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I function from those motives myself.

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We all function with mixed motives.

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But there's a way of going about our life where I'm relating to people not based on

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a posture of what's in it for me.

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I am perfectly content to give and pour into you and there are no strings attached.

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And that is what changes people's lives, you know.

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And so that's where the five people comes in.

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You've got to learn to find, you know, what pleases the Lord.

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That's my source of reward and I will pour into these people even if there's absolutely

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nothing in it for me.

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And ultimately it's relating to people with those motives that really causes them to say

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that thing that Christians always say, well, I just, I was around that person and there's

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just something different about them.

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It's not because you don't smoke or you don't drink or you don't watch R rated movies.

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People don't care about that.

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It's this person was willing to invest in me with no strings attached.

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And that's what will get people's attention, you know.

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And I think another really important aspect of this because you're going to have people

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in the body, you know, like you said, what am I supposed to do?

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You know, where is my place?

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And so we were talking about preparing sermons, you know, just coming to God and, you know,

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me and you talked about it too, is, you know, I come to the point where I realize I don't

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know what these people need, but you do, right?

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I don't know what this congregation needs to hear in this moment, in this season, because

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I might preach some real good truth, but if it's not the right time for it, it doesn't

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matter how much knowledge we have or how much understanding we have.

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Right.

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So we come to God and we say, Lord, I don't know what they need, but you do.

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So help me get out of the way.

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Show me what you want spoken to your people.

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Right.

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Because they're not my people, they're His.

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Right.

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And He knows exactly what they need.

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And so the reason I'm bringing this up is because it's not just about sermons.

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It's about serving in the body.

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Lord, you know what you've placed in me.

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You know my skills.

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You know my ability.

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You know my knowledge.

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Instead of me trying to figure out where I need to be, show me Father, if anyone lacks

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wisdom, let them ask of God who gives freely.

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Right.

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But let him ask in faith.

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That's the key is that when we bring this petition to God, we trust that he's going

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to answer it because it falls within his will.

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It's exactly what, what, uh, John was talking about.

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Right.

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And this is the assurance we have.

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This is the confidence that we have that if we ask anything according to his will, we

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know we have the petitions of what we ask for.

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Well, it says we have good works prepared.

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God has good works prepared for us before the foundations of the world that we should

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walk in them, that we should learn what is that good and perfect will of God.

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All of these things are within God's will.

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So if we ask God for help in those areas, he's more than willing to give you that help

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and to show you where belong.

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And then it's not just us thinking where we best fit in our, you know, limited understanding,

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but allowing God to use us, not just as a pastor, not just in giving a sermon, but in

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every aspect of ministry.

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And let me say this about that.

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You know, as people do that and they find joy, you know, there's no greater pleasure

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than serving God and feeling his pleasure that you're being obedient and it's pleased

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with what you're doing.

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And then let's go to the discipleship question.

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I found something I really love doing.

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You know, one of the things Steve suggested we come to this retreat and I thought, man,

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I'd like to spend more time with Ross.

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I'd like to spend more time with Troy.

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So I invited you guys to come because I enjoy hanging out with Steve.

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I know he's got some good things to impart and I wanted some other people to share it

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with me.

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But the discipleship just looks about inviting people to do something with you that you love,

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you know?

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And so whatever God gives you that you love that's benefiting or enhancing the body of

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Christ or the people around you, invite someone else to do it with you.

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And that's what making disciples looks like.

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I want to read a scripture real quick because you just, you're, and this was not in the

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notes, notes.

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It wasn't in the thoughts at all, but as you're saying this, I preached a message years ago

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and it was titled something like, take somebody with you.

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And I'm trying to remember it's in Ecclesiastes.

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I'll just pull the verse up.

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All right.

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It's Ecclesiastes chapter four, verse seven.

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And I just felt like the Holy Spirit just prompted me to read this because this describes

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a lot of ministry efforts that we currently see.

402
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And he writes, again, I saw vanity under the sun, one person who has no other, neither

403
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son or brother.

404
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And yet there's no end to all of his toil and his eyes are never satisfied with riches

405
00:31:00,420 --> 00:31:06,520
so that he never asks for whom am I toiling and depriving myself of pleasure?

406
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This also is vanity.

407
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In other words, I like how the new King James says is one without air.

408
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:24,600
And so many God called and anointed leaders, they don't have a revelation that the plan

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00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:31,960
and purpose of God is that you actually raise up sons and daughters.

410
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:34,600
Sons and daughters are not followers.

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Sons and daughters are air.

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So he has, you know, as we just read, he has all this money and are all these riches and

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resources, but he's completely alone.

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He doesn't have a brother, a son, an heir.

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He has no one for a succession within his life, and that alone within itself is a form

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of great vanity.

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In other words, it's futility because even no matter how effective you are as an individual,

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that cycle ends with you.

419
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And I just believe that the Lord is calling us to invest ourselves.

420
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And so I love what you're saying as far as, you know, just creating space for time.

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I believe this is going to become more and more commonplace and not necessarily us being

422
00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:28,840
at a camp per se or on a retreat, but just the Lord bringing people along that need whatever

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00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:40,020
stage of finishing or training or discipling at a time where it fits heaven's purpose in

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both sides, if that makes sense.

425
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:49,520
You know, you're in a brand new position yourself in this church and you're a reformer that

426
00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:55,200
the reformation DNA is who you are is what you carry.

427
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:58,720
And you know, it's not a one man show.

428
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That's what we inherited from the generation before us.

429
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:05,720
And we saw too many who were great visionaries and great men of God, but their ministry died

430
00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:06,840
with them.

431
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So the Lord is establishing a reformation that will actually go to the next generation.

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And so he's bringing people into these places of influence that actually have a vision for

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00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:21,080
imparting it into guys like this and guys like myself.

434
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:23,000
I mean, I'm getting as much as I'm giving.

435
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:26,160
In fact, I'm probably getting more than I'm giving.

436
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:29,680
But I really come with a purpose to like, oh, I'm going to go out there and we're going

437
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:30,680
to do this thing or that.

438
00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:33,280
We're just going to show up and see what the Lord does.

439
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:40,560
And I believe it's requiring, especially for leaders, a level of humility that we feel

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like it may stretch us.

441
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It may even challenge us.

442
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But humility is the order of the day.

443
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You know, one thing I've learned in the time that I've been on the planet and walking with

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00:33:55,880 --> 00:34:03,040
the Lord, I don't always hear the Lord directly, but I have had to learn to hear the Lord indirectly

445
00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:06,040
through every person that I'm around.

446
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:12,240
And the more sensitive I am to hear the Lord through the people around me, the more I hear

447
00:34:12,240 --> 00:34:14,480
him directly.

448
00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:19,560
That's interesting because humility is the ingredient at the center of that.

449
00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:20,680
Oh, I'm sorry.

450
00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:22,400
The Holy Spirit hadn't spoke that to me.

451
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:25,200
Well, maybe he's trying right now.

452
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:26,200
You know what I mean?

453
00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:31,480
Yeah, I've always said, I believe God speaks to people.

454
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:34,200
I just don't trust myself to hear him right.

455
00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:44,080
And it's usually the excessive self-focus that causes me to not hear what God is actually

456
00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:48,980
doing and saying because I want to hear what I want to hear, not what God is actually saying.

457
00:34:48,980 --> 00:34:54,520
And it's difficult to get past that.

458
00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:58,800
And when you're not alone, love covers a multitude of transgressions.

459
00:34:58,800 --> 00:34:59,800
And I love that.

460
00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:04,560
You know, I have adult children that are around me, and they like to tease Dad right in front

461
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:05,560
of them.

462
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:07,800
But at the end of the day, man, they're Dad's fiercest supporters.

463
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:11,840
And I so appreciate that because Dad needs it.

464
00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:15,960
Dad is completely vulnerable, and he's not an island unto himself.

465
00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:17,440
He doesn't stand on his own two feet.

466
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:25,880
And if there's anything I want my kids to see, it's that Dad's still moving in the purposes

467
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:30,760
of heaven, but he's doing it with others.

468
00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:35,880
Because I think that's maybe the greatest gift that we pass on to the next generation.

469
00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:43,560
And that is how to have a kingdom assignment and bring others along with you.

470
00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:45,280
Because that wasn't something we inherited.

471
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:50,240
You know, that wasn't modeled out by many who we came up under.

472
00:35:50,240 --> 00:35:56,160
You know, the one-man, one-person, top-down model of ministry, unfortunately, has been

473
00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:59,040
the order of the day, and too often still is.

474
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:04,000
And I'm not saying there's no assignments where that may not be the application.

475
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:08,560
I just feel like we're talking about in this Reformation phase, Elijah at the end of the

476
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:12,160
age is turning fathers to sons.

477
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:16,660
And he's uniting families, and specifically the family of God.

478
00:36:16,660 --> 00:36:22,800
And I believe sons of God within the house of God is the goal of God, if I could say

479
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:23,800
it that way.

480
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:24,800
Amen.

481
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:25,800
Yeah.

482
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:33,000
Well, that's always been God's goal from the Garden of Eden to the end is to create a family

483
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:37,440
that he is living intimately with in an intimate relationship on the earth.

484
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:41,560
And that's what's so sad about the great man model, the great leader model.

485
00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:51,320
Those guys wind up lonely and empty as much as they might have accumulated and broken.

486
00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:57,220
And you know, when people die, it's always said, people look back on their life and it's

487
00:36:57,220 --> 00:37:05,400
not the thing that they regret the most is not spending more time with their family.

488
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:08,320
They don't regret spending more time at work.

489
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:11,600
You know, they don't regret the children that they had.

490
00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:14,640
The thing that they value the most is the children that they had.

491
00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:26,120
And so the priority of learning to love one another well, and really enjoy good friends

492
00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:31,240
and good relationships is really where the good stuff is in the church.

493
00:37:31,240 --> 00:37:32,920
That's what the church ought to be the best at.

494
00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:34,120
Ought to be the best at.

495
00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:36,120
They will know you.

496
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:39,040
They will how does the verse go in John 13?

497
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:44,000
By this they will know that how does it go?

498
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:46,480
Ross, you got it over there?

499
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:48,640
I'm trying to get to it.

500
00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:52,640
Steve, maybe to get to it quicker by Google.

501
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:53,640
What book?

502
00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:55,640
John chapter 13.

503
00:37:55,640 --> 00:38:01,520
I always just say they'll know you by your love for one another.

504
00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:02,520
But I think you're right.

505
00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:04,520
I think there's more to it than that.

506
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:07,920
By this they will know that Jesus is real.

507
00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:09,880
By your love for one another.

508
00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:13,800
So and really when we say that, we use that word so much in the church.

509
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:19,160
We're talking about people who really have cultivated such good relationships that they're

510
00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:22,520
like family.

511
00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:27,560
You know, these are the people that I want to be around.

512
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:34,240
And that really glorifies and reveals the truth and the reality of the risen Jesus Christ.

513
00:38:34,240 --> 00:38:35,240
You know?

514
00:38:35,240 --> 00:38:40,040
By this the world will know that you are my disciples.

515
00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:41,040
By your love for one another.

516
00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:42,040
There you go.

517
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:43,040
Boom.

518
00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:44,040
There you go.

519
00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:45,040
That's it.

520
00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:48,800
And so coming out of a post COVID era, right?

521
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:50,300
And don't get me wrong.

522
00:38:50,300 --> 00:38:55,680
It's such a blessing to just be able to pick up your phone and be able to listen to someone

523
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:58,320
teach you the ways of God.

524
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:03,040
That is such a huge gift that other generations didn't get to experience.

525
00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:04,040
Right?

526
00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:06,880
And you know, if you want to hear somebody preach, you know, unless it was on the radio

527
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:09,960
or is on TV, you would have to go see them personally.

528
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:10,960
All right?

529
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:12,840
And now we can just turn on our phones and listen to that.

530
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:21,160
The problem is, is that some people are trying to sustain their walk of faith on just YouTube

531
00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:25,000
videos and online church.

532
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:29,320
And that will never sustain because it was never intended to.

533
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:35,760
And that's what you're getting at here is the importance of the collective body.

534
00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:38,640
You know, I am the I'm a living testimony of that.

535
00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:43,200
And I still to this day, some of my greatest teachers are people that I've never met before.

536
00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:44,520
Right.

537
00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:48,440
But you know, I got saved watching television and I would come home and watch television

538
00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:54,600
every night, learned a lot about Christianity, but was never able to become established as

539
00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:59,840
a follower of Jesus Christ until I got connected to an actual church.

540
00:39:59,840 --> 00:40:06,520
When I get connected to an actual church is whenever I started making progress beyond

541
00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:11,760
my baby diapers that I didn't have anyone to take care of for me.

542
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:20,360
You know, I couldn't you can't do it without the actual physical body of Christ.

543
00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:27,080
I'm a firm believer also that the and I believe the Bible bears this out, that at the end

544
00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:37,240
of the age at the Lord's return, what we will have is this communal connection.

545
00:40:37,240 --> 00:40:44,320
It won't be platforms built on technology, ministry of all types of varieties outwardly,

546
00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:50,680
but it will be believers living in community.

547
00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:52,200
Define that a variety of different ways.

548
00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:57,000
I'm not talking about sectarian communes are off living in the hills, although undoubtedly

549
00:40:57,000 --> 00:40:58,560
there will be some of that.

550
00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:03,900
But I believe you will see as in the beginning, you will have the Church of Jesus Christ having

551
00:41:03,900 --> 00:41:11,880
all things in common in one way or another with real kingdom relational equity at the

552
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:12,880
core.

553
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:17,760
And like you said, like family and that's going to be, I believe the greatest thing

554
00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:21,320
will possess at the return of the Lord.

555
00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:26,880
Speaking of that acts chapter two, they held all things in common, right?

556
00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:28,040
You know what was motivated?

557
00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:30,560
It's important to realize what was motivated them.

558
00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:36,320
They weren't being coerced by a socialist agenda.

559
00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:40,620
The reason they were sharing and holding all things in common was because your presence

560
00:41:40,620 --> 00:41:47,560
is so important to me, I'm willing to sacrifice so that you can be here because I love you.

561
00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:50,440
And this just isn't the same if you're not here.

562
00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:52,920
You know, that's love that motivated them.

563
00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:57,480
And why should you suffer when I have something that would fill that need?

564
00:41:57,480 --> 00:41:58,480
Yeah.

565
00:41:58,480 --> 00:41:59,760
And let me give you this scripture.

566
00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:01,760
It's John 13.

567
00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:06,080
35 is the actual scripture, but 34 kind of sets it up.

568
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:07,080
Okay.

569
00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:13,720
It says, cause it's in red, a new commandment I give to you that you love one another as

570
00:42:13,720 --> 00:42:18,500
I have loved you, that you also love one another.

571
00:42:18,500 --> 00:42:22,080
By this all will know that you are my disciples.

572
00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:26,040
If you have love for one another.

573
00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:29,240
Amen.

574
00:42:29,240 --> 00:42:36,120
And it's important to understand there's a place to love the lost, but the sign to the

575
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:41,080
lost or the unbeliever is the love for one another within God's people.

576
00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:44,240
I mean, that's really what he's pointing out.

577
00:42:44,240 --> 00:42:45,240
Yes.

578
00:42:45,240 --> 00:42:46,760
And that's so powerful.

579
00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:51,300
You know, it's not, there's nothing that can trump that.

580
00:42:51,300 --> 00:42:55,880
There's nothing more winsome than seeing a circle of friends that you would just die

581
00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:59,040
to be a part of.

582
00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:02,080
You know, uh, so.

583
00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:12,480
I love that idea of, you know, how can you say that you love God whom you cannot see

584
00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:19,240
when you don't even love those whom you do see, you know, that is such a strong scripture

585
00:43:19,240 --> 00:43:26,880
and it really makes you evaluate your genuine love for one another, which over and over

586
00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:32,000
again in first John, if you have hate for your brother, the love of God is not true.

587
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:33,000
Love is not in you.

588
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:34,000
Right.

589
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:38,720
Over and over again, he testifies of how important this love is for one another.

590
00:43:38,720 --> 00:43:46,000
And how can you exercise that love outside of the church, you know, which don't get me

591
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:47,000
wrong.

592
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:51,000
I understand, you know, there's home churches, but that's, that's the church too, you know,

593
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:56,000
where there is a gathering of Jesus's disciples.

594
00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:57,000
That is the church.

595
00:43:57,000 --> 00:44:02,680
And if you are not participating in that, how are you loving one another?

596
00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:08,160
You can get all the knowledge, all the information, do all your Bible study, doing all your prayer.

597
00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:14,200
But if you're not practicing love with one another, are you truly following Jesus Christ?

598
00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:21,400
The evidence of your love for your brother is your participation in the life of the church.

599
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:25,560
So there, you know, there are actually three things in first John.

600
00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:30,600
They're like a litmus test for whether or not you are a child of God.

601
00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:36,600
And Wesley, John Wesley would highlight these three things in many different places.

602
00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:40,920
And it touches on everything we've talked about here.

603
00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:45,640
We'll know that you've passed from death to life because you obey his commandments.

604
00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:46,760
Okay.

605
00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:49,560
So first litmus test.

606
00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:51,920
Do you have a desire to know his commandments?

607
00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:54,680
How can you obey his commandments if you don't know his commandments?

608
00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:59,040
Our desire to grow in the knowledge of God is our desire to know how to be more fully

609
00:44:59,040 --> 00:45:02,840
obedient to God and related to God.

610
00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:03,840
Number two, you said it.

611
00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:07,560
We'll know that we pass from death to life because of our love for the brothers.

612
00:45:07,560 --> 00:45:11,500
And then the third litmus test.

613
00:45:11,500 --> 00:45:16,080
We know that we are children of God because God's spirit bears witness with our spirit

614
00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:17,680
that we are his children.

615
00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:27,440
It is an awareness lines of communication established with the inner indwelling person

616
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:29,240
of the Holy Spirit.

617
00:45:29,240 --> 00:45:32,360
I am familiar with the Holy Spirit.

618
00:45:32,360 --> 00:45:39,600
I know his voice and he gives me a real assurance that I belong to God.

619
00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:45,280
So the work and ministry of the Holy Spirit is active in a person's life.

620
00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:51,240
Those are three clear things we're given to know whether or not we really belong to God,

621
00:45:51,240 --> 00:45:58,480
the family of God, and we're making progress towards our ultimate sanctification.

622
00:45:58,480 --> 00:45:59,720
I would even add to that.

623
00:45:59,720 --> 00:46:07,280
I believe one of the most foundational fundamental ways to learn to hear the voice and the direction

624
00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:11,080
of the Holy Spirit is in that communal setting.

625
00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:15,040
Because I remember when I was very young in that, which is it's a paradox thinking about

626
00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:25,520
it now, because I have a tendency to function in a prophetic type of a ministry at times,

627
00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:27,920
people assume, oh, you must be really good at hearing the Lord.

628
00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:29,680
No, I was the last person to hear the Lord.

629
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:35,240
I mean, that was when I was coming up, I was the, in fact, I had to have people around me

630
00:46:35,240 --> 00:46:42,280
who could hear the Lord tell me you're hearing the Lord for me to recognize what I was hearing

631
00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:43,280
was the Lord.

632
00:46:43,280 --> 00:46:48,200
Now you would think that would be obvious, but here was why it wasn't.

633
00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:54,760
I was hearing the Lord in a such a fundamental way that there's you could misunderstand what

634
00:46:54,760 --> 00:47:00,880
I'm about to say that it felt oftentimes like my own thoughts.

635
00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:07,960
That's important because it was coming to me at a level like my thoughts might like

636
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:08,960
ideas.

637
00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:11,800
And I would just think that's a good idea.

638
00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:18,160
But then when I would verbalize it or act on it, people would say, that's the Lord.

639
00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:20,560
That's you didn't come up with that on your own.

640
00:47:20,560 --> 00:47:21,960
And so I appreciate that.

641
00:47:21,960 --> 00:47:29,960
I learned to recognize the voice of the Lord, not in some mystical, you know, self isolated

642
00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:36,800
YouTube training video type of a way, but actually in the mix with other believers that

643
00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:42,080
I was in community with who were way down the road in hearing the Lord from where I

644
00:47:42,080 --> 00:47:47,400
was because, you know, that's why the scripture says, you know, when the prophets, when there's

645
00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:53,300
prophecy going forth, let one or two, three at the most prophesy and then the others judge

646
00:47:53,300 --> 00:47:58,960
the other what the other prophets because there's an element of judgment that prophets

647
00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:03,320
can recognize prophecy based on the maturing of the gift in their own selves.

648
00:48:03,320 --> 00:48:08,160
Now, that's an example that may not seem to happen application, but it applies in this

649
00:48:08,160 --> 00:48:09,160
way.

650
00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:14,240
People who are mature in hearing the Lord will help you in your growth pattern of hearing

651
00:48:14,240 --> 00:48:20,720
the Lord far greater and at a far accelerated rate than you can ever learn on your own because

652
00:48:20,720 --> 00:48:27,680
they'll help you just bypass so much of the mistakes that you have that they made on their

653
00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:31,920
own and that you don't have to make because let's face it, we've all had ideas that we

654
00:48:31,920 --> 00:48:35,280
thought were God and it turns out that wasn't the Lord at all.

655
00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:39,640
Well, there's an accountability to hearing the Lord that can take place in community

656
00:48:39,640 --> 00:48:42,760
that I just believe, especially with people you trust, man, I don't know.

657
00:48:42,760 --> 00:48:44,000
I just keep having this thought.

658
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:47,360
I really feel likes the Lord because it's so much easier.

659
00:48:47,360 --> 00:48:51,360
Like I don't it's not going to be skin off my teeth if somebody else shares something

660
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:52,360
that I feel like the Lord.

661
00:48:52,360 --> 00:48:54,480
And I say, you know, that witnesses with me.

662
00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:58,760
In other words, I'm adding my agreement or, you know, I'm not going to say it's not the

663
00:48:58,760 --> 00:48:59,760
Lord.

664
00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:01,080
I'm just going to say, I don't know about that.

665
00:49:01,080 --> 00:49:04,720
You know, you know, I'll pray with you about it that you hear the Lord.

666
00:49:04,720 --> 00:49:10,320
But I would I'm looking for does this witness with you or do you does this register with

667
00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:11,320
you at all?

668
00:49:11,320 --> 00:49:14,160
Yeah, because that's going to help me grow in my own discernment.

669
00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:15,160
Yeah.

670
00:49:15,160 --> 00:49:21,560
And that's that's something that the Holy Spirit you said earlier.

671
00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:27,200
You learn to hear the Lord through the reactions of other people.

672
00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:28,640
Can you tell me how you said that again?

673
00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:34,160
Because that was an important thing that you said.

674
00:49:34,160 --> 00:49:36,720
Probably not.

675
00:49:36,720 --> 00:49:44,760
But based upon the reactions and the responses and you can see it in their face whether or

676
00:49:44,760 --> 00:49:47,920
not God is speaking and working through.

677
00:49:47,920 --> 00:49:52,560
Well, what I just what I said was I was hearing the Lord in things that I didn't recognize

678
00:49:52,560 --> 00:49:56,000
was the Lord, but they recognized it was the Lord.

679
00:49:56,000 --> 00:49:57,000
Yeah.

680
00:49:57,000 --> 00:49:59,400
And that's a challenge, hey, you're really hearing the Lord in this.

681
00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:01,760
You need to pay attention to what you're getting in that.

682
00:50:01,760 --> 00:50:03,800
This was back earlier in the conversation.

683
00:50:03,800 --> 00:50:09,360
But I think the important point is whenever the body of Christ is together, the Holy Spirit

684
00:50:09,360 --> 00:50:18,760
is working in a dynamic way and he's witnessing his will and confirming it through the relationships

685
00:50:18,760 --> 00:50:19,760
that are built.

686
00:50:19,760 --> 00:50:24,200
And so when I say something that's from the Lord, it energizes you.

687
00:50:24,200 --> 00:50:25,800
And that gives you a witness.

688
00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:32,400
The Holy Spirit is bearing witness that, hey, let's do this.

689
00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:34,240
Let's think this way about this.

690
00:50:34,240 --> 00:50:37,440
And there's life to it.

691
00:50:37,440 --> 00:50:40,840
Let me give you the scripture that we're talking about.

692
00:50:40,840 --> 00:50:47,160
It's Hebrews chapter 10 verse 25.

693
00:50:47,160 --> 00:50:50,680
Let me go to 24 just to add a little context.

694
00:50:50,680 --> 00:50:59,040
And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works, colon.

695
00:50:59,040 --> 00:51:09,080
25, not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together as the manner of some is, but exhorting

696
00:51:09,080 --> 00:51:14,600
one another and so much the more as you see the day approaching.

697
00:51:14,600 --> 00:51:16,240
That's exactly right.

698
00:51:16,240 --> 00:51:17,880
That's exactly it.

699
00:51:17,880 --> 00:51:23,800
Now, we say that last phrase as if it was just a customary greeting, but now let's really

700
00:51:23,800 --> 00:51:26,600
look at what the last phrase of that was.

701
00:51:26,600 --> 00:51:30,800
So much more as you see the day approaching.

702
00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:36,520
Now, prophetically, I can hear in that that what we're experiencing in a microcosm or

703
00:51:36,520 --> 00:51:37,800
let's say it like this.

704
00:51:37,800 --> 00:51:43,520
What we're experiencing here as a first fruit, I believe the Lord is giving you and giving

705
00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:46,640
all of us a strategy for discipleship.

706
00:51:46,640 --> 00:51:52,160
That's yeah, it's maybe going to require a little more of us, but it's because the time

707
00:51:52,160 --> 00:51:54,000
requires more from us.

708
00:51:54,000 --> 00:51:59,480
It's because we're in that as you see the day approaching, do it all the more.

709
00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:02,880
And we're in that all the more space right now.

710
00:52:02,880 --> 00:52:08,280
I mean, far more than the writer of Hebrews was at that particular time.

711
00:52:08,280 --> 00:52:11,200
We're coming right down to the end for sure.

712
00:52:11,200 --> 00:52:14,840
Yeah, this weekend we've kind of talked about this.

713
00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:16,840
We've talked about this this weekend.

714
00:52:16,840 --> 00:52:21,400
There are farmers who say, I don't need to go to church.

715
00:52:21,400 --> 00:52:24,280
There are people who just stopped going to church.

716
00:52:24,280 --> 00:52:27,360
Church attendance is down all over this nation.

717
00:52:27,360 --> 00:52:33,360
I don't know if the same is in Europe and in Africa, et cetera, et cetera, but in America,

718
00:52:33,360 --> 00:52:34,760
church attendance is down.

719
00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:39,320
And this is clear, forsake not.

720
00:52:39,320 --> 00:52:44,760
And Steve shared this with us even earlier about his ministry, how it really, the prophetic

721
00:52:44,760 --> 00:52:50,520
ministry is a corporate ministry and how God speaks to him in that corporate body.

722
00:52:50,520 --> 00:52:56,880
And it's important because as you're saying, there's so much that we need from one another

723
00:52:56,880 --> 00:52:59,000
that we don't even know that we need.

724
00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:00,120
That's exactly right.

725
00:53:00,120 --> 00:53:04,960
But once we come together, then it quickens in us.

726
00:53:04,960 --> 00:53:07,320
Yeah, we're not even aware of our need.

727
00:53:07,320 --> 00:53:08,320
Right.

728
00:53:08,320 --> 00:53:09,320
That's right.

729
00:53:09,320 --> 00:53:13,760
I mean, the Holy Spirit, that's why the that's why the Bible says, you know, talking about

730
00:53:13,760 --> 00:53:19,120
praying with the Spirit because the Spirit is praying in a way that we don't even know.

731
00:53:19,120 --> 00:53:21,520
You know, our understanding isn't always fruitful.

732
00:53:21,520 --> 00:53:26,040
Well, that same application is touching all these things we're talking about.

733
00:53:26,040 --> 00:53:31,880
And it's only when we get together like this that we realize, OK, something's being met

734
00:53:31,880 --> 00:53:38,600
at a need level that I wouldn't have recognized had I stayed isolated.

735
00:53:38,600 --> 00:53:41,080
You know, and there's a lot of different ways that can happen.

736
00:53:41,080 --> 00:53:46,120
You know, and I'm not somebody who believes that the institution of the church is the

737
00:53:46,120 --> 00:53:50,480
only representation, the macro institution of the church.

738
00:53:50,480 --> 00:53:54,640
Yes, but any one individual church isn't the only representation of the church and the

739
00:53:54,640 --> 00:53:55,640
earth.

740
00:53:55,640 --> 00:53:59,320
I believe the church of the earth is wherever you find God's people and the government of

741
00:53:59,320 --> 00:54:00,320
God functioning.

742
00:54:00,320 --> 00:54:01,680
And there's a critical second component.

743
00:54:01,680 --> 00:54:03,800
And there's probably a few other things we could say with that.

744
00:54:03,800 --> 00:54:07,480
Well, because we have the government, you have the order and where you have the order,

745
00:54:07,480 --> 00:54:10,520
you have the message, you have the ministry, you have the application.

746
00:54:10,520 --> 00:54:14,760
You have the, you know, the kingdom, really.

747
00:54:14,760 --> 00:54:20,200
So there's components that we're getting just by coming together that we don't get on our

748
00:54:20,200 --> 00:54:21,280
own.

749
00:54:21,280 --> 00:54:23,520
But yet it's like food.

750
00:54:23,520 --> 00:54:32,120
The longer you starve yourself, the less hungry you become to the point where you start deteriorating

751
00:54:32,120 --> 00:54:34,140
and you're not even aware of it.

752
00:54:34,140 --> 00:54:35,140
It's so true.

753
00:54:35,140 --> 00:54:40,920
And I think that's been happening in churches because the churches aren't aligned properly.

754
00:54:40,920 --> 00:54:44,160
They're not focused on the right things.

755
00:54:44,160 --> 00:54:51,260
People are facing malnutrition, spiritual malnutrition and people wither away.

756
00:54:51,260 --> 00:54:59,960
But I think Ross, that decline, if the church realigns, gets focused on the right things,

757
00:54:59,960 --> 00:55:02,880
the nutrients start flowing.

758
00:55:02,880 --> 00:55:09,480
You know, that's when the conditions for revival can happen.

759
00:55:09,480 --> 00:55:13,320
You know, our particular church, we're going through a reformation.

760
00:55:13,320 --> 00:55:18,860
And there will be prophetic types, when I say that, more academic prophetic types,

761
00:55:18,860 --> 00:55:22,360
who would say there will be no revival without reformation.

762
00:55:22,360 --> 00:55:25,520
There's no point in praying for revival if you're not going to reform.

763
00:55:25,520 --> 00:55:33,080
Well, we've been going through a reform, I think the more we really dial into aligning

764
00:55:33,080 --> 00:55:38,600
ourselves properly, focused on the right things, preaching the right message, that puts us

765
00:55:38,600 --> 00:55:40,320
in a position to receive revival.

766
00:55:40,320 --> 00:55:45,640
And when revival comes, you don't have to beg people to come to church.

767
00:55:45,640 --> 00:55:52,300
I love who is it, Leonard Ravenhill, famous quote from him was, you don't have to advertise

768
00:55:52,300 --> 00:55:53,300
a fire.

769
00:55:53,300 --> 00:55:54,300
Yeah.

770
00:55:54,300 --> 00:55:57,320
And he said that in view of John Wesley's ministry as well.

771
00:55:57,320 --> 00:55:59,320
He was a great Methodist.

772
00:55:59,320 --> 00:56:01,480
Wesley, I've heard that.

773
00:56:01,480 --> 00:56:02,480
Or Leonard Ravenhill.

774
00:56:02,480 --> 00:56:03,480
Leonard Ravenhill.

775
00:56:03,480 --> 00:56:04,480
Yeah.

776
00:56:04,480 --> 00:56:10,840
You know, something else that just keeps coming up in our conversations here, this time we've

777
00:56:10,840 --> 00:56:17,760
had together, is the overcorrection that you've talked about seeing throughout your whole

778
00:56:17,760 --> 00:56:19,380
church life.

779
00:56:19,380 --> 00:56:25,360
And what we're seeing now in the church is, and what I mean by overcorrection is, take

780
00:56:25,360 --> 00:56:29,880
for instance, people in the charismatic circles, right?

781
00:56:29,880 --> 00:56:32,040
They see abuses of it.

782
00:56:32,040 --> 00:56:37,040
They see things that they just know aren't genuine.

783
00:56:37,040 --> 00:56:43,720
And so because of that, they, instead of correcting it, they overcorrect it.

784
00:56:43,720 --> 00:56:48,320
And they go so far on the other side of it that they just don't believe the Holy Spirit

785
00:56:48,320 --> 00:56:50,040
moves anymore.

786
00:56:50,040 --> 00:56:51,760
And you know, the scripture's clear.

787
00:56:51,760 --> 00:56:58,480
Jesus told them, do not even go out and minister until you have received power from on high.

788
00:56:58,480 --> 00:57:05,380
Now that power is to be an efficient witness of Jesus Christ, right?

789
00:57:05,380 --> 00:57:07,680
That looks different for everybody.

790
00:57:07,680 --> 00:57:11,100
Wherever God has placed you, he's going to empower you by the Holy Spirit.

791
00:57:11,100 --> 00:57:17,800
But you can't let what other people have done change the fact of what the scripture's

792
00:57:17,800 --> 00:57:20,400
clearly teach, right?

793
00:57:20,400 --> 00:57:25,520
We were talking the same thing about with this huge movement to the Eastern Orthodox

794
00:57:25,520 --> 00:57:27,080
Church, right?

795
00:57:27,080 --> 00:57:30,880
People are getting tired of worship being a rock concert.

796
00:57:30,880 --> 00:57:35,220
People are getting tired of sermons being a TED Talk, right?

797
00:57:35,220 --> 00:57:39,740
They realize, is this really worshiping Jesus?

798
00:57:39,740 --> 00:57:41,580
Is this really how we worship Jesus?

799
00:57:41,580 --> 00:57:43,640
And they want something more stable.

800
00:57:43,640 --> 00:57:46,700
And we talked about something more ancient, right?

801
00:57:46,700 --> 00:57:52,640
And so instead of correcting these things, they over-correct and jump to the Eastern

802
00:57:52,640 --> 00:57:55,100
Orthodox Church, right?

803
00:57:55,100 --> 00:57:58,200
And so we see it in so many different ways.

804
00:57:58,200 --> 00:58:03,720
And so I think instead of jumping all the way back, is we just be honest with ourselves

805
00:58:03,720 --> 00:58:07,200
and say, what does the scripture say, right?

806
00:58:07,200 --> 00:58:14,200
We don't have to ignore a piece of scripture because other people are preaching it wrong.

807
00:58:14,200 --> 00:58:27,520
Yeah, and you talk about the kind of the shallow entertainment-driven church landscape that's

808
00:58:27,520 --> 00:58:35,760
catering to people's need or desire to stay anonymous and to come and experience a good

809
00:58:35,760 --> 00:58:41,720
show and have some good feelings and then go back focused on me, myself, and I.

810
00:58:41,720 --> 00:58:50,720
And add to that the cultural chaos that has been unleashed on our culture, where all of

811
00:58:50,720 --> 00:58:59,680
that instability and division is just driving people to seek something that has not changed.

812
00:58:59,680 --> 00:59:03,140
It's an anchor for my soul.

813
00:59:03,140 --> 00:59:07,180
This is something that has stayed the same for 2,000 years.

814
00:59:07,180 --> 00:59:18,800
And it's an over-correction because it's stuck in the past.

815
00:59:18,800 --> 00:59:19,800
Let me say this also.

816
00:59:19,800 --> 00:59:27,520
This is my favorite definition of error, is taking any singular truth to the exclusion

817
00:59:27,520 --> 00:59:30,860
of other truths.

818
00:59:30,860 --> 00:59:31,860
You follow me?

819
00:59:31,860 --> 00:59:32,860
Yep.

820
00:59:32,860 --> 00:59:39,760
And we can't even say any one truth, and really because we understand truth is fully manifest

821
00:59:39,760 --> 00:59:42,040
in the person of Jesus Christ.

822
00:59:42,040 --> 00:59:43,880
We can't even say any one truth.

823
00:59:43,880 --> 00:59:52,000
We have to say any singular facet of truth because truth is total or whole in him.

824
00:59:52,000 --> 00:59:55,920
There's not a concept that's the totality of truth.

825
00:59:55,920 --> 01:00:01,720
So it's any one particular facet of truth to the exclusion of other truths, kind of

826
01:00:01,720 --> 01:00:07,320
like these disciplines that people focus on from a denominational reference to the exclusion

827
01:00:07,320 --> 01:00:13,640
of other things that have similar or same or some importance, but just completely relegating

828
01:00:13,640 --> 01:00:15,640
them to irrelevance.

829
01:00:15,640 --> 01:00:18,120
And so the pendulum swing is just that.

830
01:00:18,120 --> 01:00:23,040
But basically what we're doing is we're saying, I don't want, you know, it's like the proverbial,

831
01:00:23,040 --> 01:00:25,560
there's a ditch on either side.

832
01:00:25,560 --> 01:00:29,860
And just going from one side of the road to the other side, you're still in a ditch.

833
01:00:29,860 --> 01:00:30,860
And so, what's that?

834
01:00:30,860 --> 01:00:31,860
That's good.

835
01:00:31,860 --> 01:00:33,880
Oh, yeah, you're still in a ditch.

836
01:00:33,880 --> 01:00:38,640
It may be a different ditch, but you've just gone from one ditch to another ditch.

837
01:00:38,640 --> 01:00:40,120
And I agree with what you said.

838
01:00:40,120 --> 01:00:41,660
No, let's bring correction.

839
01:00:41,660 --> 01:00:43,360
What is correction?

840
01:00:43,360 --> 01:00:51,440
It's got to come back into a kingdom perspective where Jesus gets everything he paid for.

841
01:00:51,440 --> 01:00:56,140
You know, one of the prophecies we're still waiting to be fulfilled is where the Lord

842
01:00:56,140 --> 01:01:00,980
said to my Lord, sit here until your enemies are made your footstool.

843
01:01:00,980 --> 01:01:05,600
So that means at some point, all the enemies of Christ are going to be ultimately put under

844
01:01:05,600 --> 01:01:08,240
his feet.

845
01:01:08,240 --> 01:01:10,520
That's the goal.

846
01:01:10,520 --> 01:01:14,320
That's the present day ministry of Jesus Christ in the earth.

847
01:01:14,320 --> 01:01:15,600
You want to say something?

848
01:01:15,600 --> 01:01:21,160
Well, I was just reading this morning in my theology of John Wesley book, getting clarity,

849
01:01:21,160 --> 01:01:23,680
you know, Wesley applied that book.

850
01:01:23,680 --> 01:01:26,960
Wesley applied that book, what you said is absolutely true.

851
01:01:26,960 --> 01:01:31,880
But the real work he's doing is putting all of his enemies under his feet in my mind and

852
01:01:31,880 --> 01:01:33,800
heart.

853
01:01:33,800 --> 01:01:41,880
You know, now that's that verse, I believe is talking about a corporate thing, but I

854
01:01:41,880 --> 01:01:42,880
need to be mindful.

855
01:01:42,880 --> 01:01:46,880
He's got a lot of work left to do in my mind and heart in regards to that verse.

856
01:01:46,880 --> 01:01:47,880
Yeah.

857
01:01:47,880 --> 01:01:51,720
And usually the truth I love is the one I'm most grounded in.

858
01:01:51,720 --> 01:01:52,720
Right.

859
01:01:52,720 --> 01:01:55,720
In other words, or the facet of truth.

860
01:01:55,720 --> 01:01:58,880
I love the facets of truth that I'm solid in.

861
01:01:58,880 --> 01:01:59,880
Yeah.

862
01:01:59,880 --> 01:02:06,400
It's the other facets or it's the other facets of Christ's person that the Holy Spirit is

863
01:02:06,400 --> 01:02:10,040
committed to working in me that I don't want to commit myself to.

864
01:02:10,040 --> 01:02:11,040
Right.

865
01:02:11,040 --> 01:02:12,040
Right.

866
01:02:12,040 --> 01:02:13,040
Yeah.

867
01:02:13,040 --> 01:02:21,600
And that's the staying in the middle of the road requires, I don't know why it's so hard.

868
01:02:21,600 --> 01:02:24,160
Why is that so hard to do?

869
01:02:24,160 --> 01:02:36,920
You know, there's a book called Failure of Nerve.

870
01:02:36,920 --> 01:02:44,080
And the book is describing why organizations that could be a family, it could be a church,

871
01:02:44,080 --> 01:02:47,840
it could be a business, it could be any type of social system.

872
01:02:47,840 --> 01:02:53,920
Why did they get bogged down into mediocrity?

873
01:02:53,920 --> 01:02:58,480
It's usually because they're allowing the weakest person in the group to dictate the

874
01:02:58,480 --> 01:03:01,480
agenda.

875
01:03:01,480 --> 01:03:08,040
They refuse to exercise the courage to hurt somebody's feeling and do what they know what

876
01:03:08,040 --> 01:03:12,440
is right for the group rather than for the individual.

877
01:03:12,440 --> 01:03:20,360
Yeah, and functionally it looks like even as leaders we're preaching to the weakest

878
01:03:20,360 --> 01:03:25,880
element of the group that we're overseeing.

879
01:03:25,880 --> 01:03:31,360
So we always have the consideration of how this particular individual or this particular

880
01:03:31,360 --> 01:03:41,120
segment of people are going to respond instead of holding the standard, the biblical standard,

881
01:03:41,120 --> 01:03:45,320
you know, or shifting the focus back.

882
01:03:45,320 --> 01:03:48,320
You know, think about this on a micro level.

883
01:03:48,320 --> 01:03:56,120
Anytime the, we'll come back to sanctification, anytime sanctification is working out in our

884
01:03:56,120 --> 01:04:03,760
individual lives, let's take just a particular area of behavior that the Holy Spirit is dealing

885
01:04:03,760 --> 01:04:13,000
with in us and you know, it would be real easy for us to then shift our focus on that.

886
01:04:13,000 --> 01:04:17,880
And I've learned that's almost never the approach or the solution.

887
01:04:17,880 --> 01:04:23,680
There's no solution in navel gazing where I am shifting my focus onto what the Lord

888
01:04:23,680 --> 01:04:24,720
is doing.

889
01:04:24,720 --> 01:04:28,280
And part of knowing the Lord is doing it, there's a timing to that too and trying to

890
01:04:28,280 --> 01:04:31,040
do that outside of time is always disaster.

891
01:04:31,040 --> 01:04:34,620
Like you're not going to perform your own sanctification process.

892
01:04:34,620 --> 01:04:39,560
You're going to cooperate with the Lord at the timing that He chooses, you know, wherever

893
01:04:39,560 --> 01:04:41,680
you're at in that as it is anyway.

894
01:04:41,680 --> 01:04:42,680
Hopefully.

895
01:04:42,680 --> 01:04:43,680
Hopefully.

896
01:04:43,680 --> 01:04:47,920
Well, even if you're not cooperating with it, He still chose the timing you didn't.

897
01:04:47,920 --> 01:04:53,760
But if I focus on doing it, I'm going to make a mess of it because I don't have the ability

898
01:04:53,760 --> 01:04:59,200
just because I, really the first step of this is awareness.

899
01:04:59,200 --> 01:05:05,720
I mean, awareness, awareness just means the invitation has hit the inbox and I've suddenly

900
01:05:05,720 --> 01:05:10,960
read the email and it's like, Oh Lord, you're identifying this thing you want to do in me.

901
01:05:10,960 --> 01:05:20,040
You know, really my only posture at that point, at least initially is I, I'm, I'm incapable.

902
01:05:20,040 --> 01:05:21,720
I have a need.

903
01:05:21,720 --> 01:05:24,080
This is it.

904
01:05:24,080 --> 01:05:25,080
And I give it to you.

905
01:05:25,080 --> 01:05:28,360
I mean, it doesn't mean I ignore it, but it doesn't mean I said about trying to fix it

906
01:05:28,360 --> 01:05:30,200
either because that's always a recipe for it.

907
01:05:30,200 --> 01:05:35,200
I've never seen anybody be successful trying to fix themselves.

908
01:05:35,200 --> 01:05:39,920
But it doesn't mean that I'm exempt from the sanctification process.

909
01:05:39,920 --> 01:05:44,920
There's a cooperation and you know, that's where the Holy Spirit is masterful at working

910
01:05:44,920 --> 01:05:49,840
things indirectly versus me trying to fix it directly.

911
01:05:49,840 --> 01:05:50,840
If that makes sense.

912
01:05:50,840 --> 01:05:53,840
One way you said is important.

913
01:05:53,840 --> 01:06:00,840
Getting the process means being available and being willing to be made aware.

914
01:06:00,840 --> 01:06:05,040
You know, I can't, I can't partner with the Holy Spirit and fixing a problem I'm not aware

915
01:06:05,040 --> 01:06:09,320
of and the Holy Spirit can't fix the problem in me if I'm not available.

916
01:06:09,320 --> 01:06:15,840
A good friend of mine who were, she's a counselor and she does a lot in deliverance type ministries.

917
01:06:15,840 --> 01:06:18,880
One of her best quotes and I quote her on this all the time is she said, you got to

918
01:06:18,880 --> 01:06:21,960
say hello to a thing before you can say goodbye to it.

919
01:06:21,960 --> 01:06:22,960
Yeah.

920
01:06:22,960 --> 01:06:23,960
Amen.

921
01:06:23,960 --> 01:06:27,480
Even if it's a little more than that, right?

922
01:06:27,480 --> 01:06:32,280
You know, that's at least the starting point and, and often just becoming aware of something

923
01:06:32,280 --> 01:06:35,520
is already moving you in the direction of freedom.

924
01:06:35,520 --> 01:06:36,680
Yeah.

925
01:06:36,680 --> 01:06:45,020
And so I just want to get into that a little bit more deeper because that is vital to understand.

926
01:06:45,020 --> 01:06:46,680
God sees us through and through.

927
01:06:46,680 --> 01:06:48,120
He knows things about us.

928
01:06:48,120 --> 01:06:50,680
We don't even know about ourselves, right?

929
01:06:50,680 --> 01:06:56,240
And I love how the Bible puts it, you know, talks about us not hardening our hearts, but

930
01:06:56,240 --> 01:06:58,200
having a soft heart, right?

931
01:06:58,200 --> 01:07:01,920
And then it talks about our faith being tested by fire, right?

932
01:07:01,920 --> 01:07:06,240
As silver and gold is purified, right?

933
01:07:06,240 --> 01:07:12,480
And so when, when gold has the impurities in it, it's hard, right?

934
01:07:12,480 --> 01:07:16,880
The more pure gold is, the more dense it is, the more softer it is, right?

935
01:07:16,880 --> 01:07:18,060
Just like a heart.

936
01:07:18,060 --> 01:07:22,120
The less impurities there are in our hearts, the softer it's going to be, right?

937
01:07:22,120 --> 01:07:28,680
But it takes putting the gold in the fire, heating it up, and then putting a dross on

938
01:07:28,680 --> 01:07:32,520
it to draw those imperfections to the surface.

939
01:07:32,520 --> 01:07:37,840
And so when we talk about the sanctification process, it's when we go through these times

940
01:07:37,840 --> 01:07:41,280
of uncomfortable, right?

941
01:07:41,280 --> 01:07:47,460
Hardships things start to come out, right?

942
01:07:47,460 --> 01:07:52,740
Things that we didn't even realize were still in there, but they come to the surface.

943
01:07:52,740 --> 01:07:56,080
And the truth is, we don't want them to come to the surface.

944
01:07:56,080 --> 01:08:00,060
I don't want to appear to be the sinful man that I am in front of my brothers and sisters

945
01:08:00,060 --> 01:08:01,400
in Christ, right?

946
01:08:01,400 --> 01:08:04,920
I don't want these imperfections coming out when others are around, right?

947
01:08:04,920 --> 01:08:09,920
But if they do not come to the surface, they will remain hidden.

948
01:08:09,920 --> 01:08:15,320
And so these trials and these times of sanctification that we're supposed to cooperate in, right?

949
01:08:15,320 --> 01:08:21,320
It takes going through some heated moments, going through some times of uncomfortability

950
01:08:21,320 --> 01:08:23,800
that brings these things to the surface.

951
01:08:23,800 --> 01:08:24,920
And then we see them.

952
01:08:24,920 --> 01:08:26,240
And that's what you're talking about.

953
01:08:26,240 --> 01:08:29,200
And don't run, don't run from it, which I've done.

954
01:08:29,200 --> 01:08:30,200
Stay put.

955
01:08:30,200 --> 01:08:31,200
Yes.

956
01:08:31,200 --> 01:08:35,720
And so he's bringing that out so we can address it.

957
01:08:35,720 --> 01:08:39,400
You can't say goodbye to something until you say hello to it.

958
01:08:39,400 --> 01:08:44,000
Allow it to come out so that you can recognize it for what it is.

959
01:08:44,000 --> 01:08:46,920
And now you can come to God and say, okay, Lord, it's here.

960
01:08:46,920 --> 01:08:48,000
I see it.

961
01:08:48,000 --> 01:08:49,600
You've been seeing it.

962
01:08:49,600 --> 01:08:50,960
What do we do about it?

963
01:08:50,960 --> 01:08:54,040
You know, you're hitting on something that I think is so vital to realize.

964
01:08:54,040 --> 01:08:58,800
And again, it comes back to this posture of humility.

965
01:08:58,800 --> 01:09:05,360
Humility recognizes an individual's need, an awareness of need.

966
01:09:05,360 --> 01:09:09,520
Humility, in my opinion, is, summarize, awareness of need.

967
01:09:09,520 --> 01:09:16,640
And people who don't function from a position of, I'm only here by the grace of God, it's

968
01:09:16,640 --> 01:09:18,920
not false humility.

969
01:09:18,920 --> 01:09:21,440
It's just agreeing with what he's saying.

970
01:09:21,440 --> 01:09:24,880
You know, if he says you're this, then agreeing with him is not false humility.

971
01:09:24,880 --> 01:09:26,560
It's agreeing, yeah, you're right.

972
01:09:26,560 --> 01:09:31,400
It is this because we're not standing on our own merits anyways.

973
01:09:31,400 --> 01:09:36,560
And in ministry too often, we feel like we have to stand on our own merits.

974
01:09:36,560 --> 01:09:38,880
It's like I have to put my best foot forward.

975
01:09:38,880 --> 01:09:44,360
I have to put my best ministry face on, my best outfit.

976
01:09:44,360 --> 01:09:45,360
And you know, I do that.

977
01:09:45,360 --> 01:09:47,520
I don't like to show up preaching somewhere looking like a slob.

978
01:09:47,520 --> 01:09:51,960
I mean, there's an element of that that is expected.

979
01:09:51,960 --> 01:09:57,520
But when it comes to humility, humility is agreeing with the Lord on the level of, you're

980
01:09:57,520 --> 01:10:04,040
right, I have a need that you've made me aware of, but it's not.

981
01:10:04,040 --> 01:10:08,280
So you know, and this is part of that whole ministry tension.

982
01:10:08,280 --> 01:10:11,600
It's not so I can grovel or be weak.

983
01:10:11,600 --> 01:10:17,840
It's so that I can be more aware of your power in this moment.

984
01:10:17,840 --> 01:10:21,240
Because I'm not standing here because, and that's how you know you're called.

985
01:10:21,240 --> 01:10:28,960
I'm not here because I'm perfect, because I'm more qualified, more capable, a greater

986
01:10:28,960 --> 01:10:29,960
speaker.

987
01:10:29,960 --> 01:10:30,960
I'm not standing.

988
01:10:30,960 --> 01:10:32,200
It's like David.

989
01:10:32,200 --> 01:10:38,360
David didn't struggle with his son's insurrection and rebellion.

990
01:10:38,360 --> 01:10:44,600
He simply said, the Lord put me in this position, and if the Lord's done with me, He will take

991
01:10:44,600 --> 01:10:45,600
me out.

992
01:10:45,600 --> 01:10:48,640
But if not, I'll be back.

993
01:10:48,640 --> 01:10:58,800
You know, I'm not standing because of anything that I'm putting on myself in any type of,

994
01:10:58,800 --> 01:11:00,880
in any posture really.

995
01:11:00,880 --> 01:11:05,120
We only stand in the places that God's given us and the authority that He's given us.

996
01:11:05,120 --> 01:11:11,080
So I mean, you know, Kendall's in this leadership role at the church you all attend.

997
01:11:11,080 --> 01:11:16,040
It's not because he's the most qualified, capable, you know, and I think he's very qualified,

998
01:11:16,040 --> 01:11:18,240
very capable, and that's not even the point.

999
01:11:18,240 --> 01:11:20,240
But it's really not because of all that.

1000
01:11:20,240 --> 01:11:26,440
It's because he's stayed put through enough process to where the promotion of the Lord

1001
01:11:26,440 --> 01:11:27,840
came for this season.

1002
01:11:27,840 --> 01:11:30,080
And that's a word for all of us.

1003
01:11:30,080 --> 01:11:37,240
We step into promotion not because we're the better choice, but because we stayed in process

1004
01:11:37,240 --> 01:11:40,360
to the point where the Lord says, now I can use you.

1005
01:11:40,360 --> 01:11:44,120
The sanctification meets the glorification for acceleration.

1006
01:11:44,120 --> 01:11:46,440
Now, come on, that's a good word right there, right?

1007
01:11:46,440 --> 01:11:47,440
Let's go.

1008
01:11:47,440 --> 01:11:48,440
Come on.

1009
01:11:48,440 --> 01:11:50,440
I'm just ready to like get up and run lapsed now.

1010
01:11:50,440 --> 01:11:51,680
Where, what was that?

1011
01:11:51,680 --> 01:11:54,280
Uh, hike that we were going to do that.

1012
01:11:54,280 --> 01:11:55,280
Lighthouse.

1013
01:11:55,280 --> 01:11:57,280
Here we go.

1014
01:11:57,280 --> 01:11:58,280
Parks closed.

1015
01:11:58,280 --> 01:11:59,280
No, seriously.

1016
01:11:59,280 --> 01:12:05,840
We're all moving in a promotion cycle and I love it.

1017
01:12:05,840 --> 01:12:11,560
You know, people always talk about, you know, you know, one thing in the prophetic world,

1018
01:12:11,560 --> 01:12:18,560
prophetic promises to people about promotion always get a bad rap because they come singularly.

1019
01:12:18,560 --> 01:12:25,880
But if you're talking about prophetic or promotion that comes because you've been faithful to

1020
01:12:25,880 --> 01:12:30,320
a process that is kingdom.

1021
01:12:30,320 --> 01:12:34,760
And if we will embrace the process that the Lord has, he knows what he's preparing us

1022
01:12:34,760 --> 01:12:35,760
for.

1023
01:12:35,760 --> 01:12:42,720
You know, I may feel like I'm in the weakest state of my life, but I also have this other

1024
01:12:42,720 --> 01:12:50,920
gear that I realize I'm in the most powerful state of my life because even in my weakened

1025
01:12:50,920 --> 01:12:56,560
state the Lord can move me into places that he was never ready to move me into before.

1026
01:12:56,560 --> 01:12:57,560
Does that make sense?

1027
01:12:57,560 --> 01:12:58,560
Absolutely.

1028
01:12:58,560 --> 01:12:59,560
Yeah.

1029
01:12:59,560 --> 01:13:08,360
And so I think sanctification, which really in my language, in the perspective I like

1030
01:13:08,360 --> 01:13:13,220
to present it as is God is preparing you for good works.

1031
01:13:13,220 --> 01:13:18,120
You already know the call, you know, and we want to rat it out in our youthful zeal and

1032
01:13:18,120 --> 01:13:20,960
do the call yesterday.

1033
01:13:20,960 --> 01:13:27,400
And we want to do it in the strength of our flesh, in zealousness, in all the emotion

1034
01:13:27,400 --> 01:13:34,080
and energy, but the Lord can't partner with that, but he's not, you know, he's for us

1035
01:13:34,080 --> 01:13:35,680
and he loves that we want to do it.

1036
01:13:35,680 --> 01:13:39,280
I mean, he's like, we're going to work some of those things out.

1037
01:13:39,280 --> 01:13:44,680
I want, you're going to love it and you're also going to like it more if we do it my

1038
01:13:44,680 --> 01:13:48,080
way, because you're going to have fruit that remains.

1039
01:13:48,080 --> 01:13:51,440
You may not like the process it's going to take to get to the place where you have fruit

1040
01:13:51,440 --> 01:13:56,080
that remains, but it's actually going to be that refining process where the gold comes

1041
01:13:56,080 --> 01:14:03,800
out and it's not going to be fool's gold because I believe fool's gold is people who have a

1042
01:14:03,800 --> 01:14:09,440
legitimate call, but yet they would not submit to process.

1043
01:14:09,440 --> 01:14:14,920
Final thought on that, Saul and David, you have two kings both appointed by God, but

1044
01:14:14,920 --> 01:14:19,800
one of them, the Lord has a decade or more to work with process and the other one, he's

1045
01:14:19,800 --> 01:14:23,400
got to put in the job tomorrow.

1046
01:14:23,400 --> 01:14:31,800
I mean, on paper, David's grievances were as bad and, you know, murder, idolatry, in

1047
01:14:31,800 --> 01:14:39,240
my mind, they're at least on equal footing, but the Lord had enough time to work a process

1048
01:14:39,240 --> 01:14:44,320
in David to where his heart was always after him.

1049
01:14:44,320 --> 01:14:50,600
Saul had no time to have process worked in him and he never got over the smallness, which

1050
01:14:50,600 --> 01:14:56,920
means the insecurities that he brought into the equation.

1051
01:14:56,920 --> 01:15:03,480
That you know, the insecurity while you're talking earlier about, you know, things come

1052
01:15:03,480 --> 01:15:06,160
into the surface.

1053
01:15:06,160 --> 01:15:09,620
For me, that's usually my anxieties.

1054
01:15:09,620 --> 01:15:17,400
It's the fear and the anxieties that cause us to get out of alignment with God's will,

1055
01:15:17,400 --> 01:15:28,440
the avoiding those things that scare us, that intimidate us, that make us feel insignificant.

1056
01:15:28,440 --> 01:15:36,560
And you know, with David and Absalom, the example, David was not going to allow those

1057
01:15:36,560 --> 01:15:41,480
things to dominate his mind and heart and that kept him out of the way so that God could

1058
01:15:41,480 --> 01:15:43,800
work and do what he wanted to do.

1059
01:15:43,800 --> 01:15:50,440
But learning to not be controlled by our fear, our anxieties and our insecurities, there's

1060
01:15:50,440 --> 01:15:52,480
no shortcut to that.

1061
01:15:52,480 --> 01:15:58,200
And if you had promoted yourself, then you have no resistance to those things.

1062
01:15:58,200 --> 01:16:00,880
Those things are going to control you the whole way.

1063
01:16:00,880 --> 01:16:06,960
And unfortunately, we see too many leaders who the Lord actually has something for, but

1064
01:16:06,960 --> 01:16:12,840
they've gotten out ahead of the timing of the Lord and insecurity destroys them and

1065
01:16:12,840 --> 01:16:19,560
those who are closest around them because they didn't wait for the process and the timing

1066
01:16:19,560 --> 01:16:24,040
to converge like in the life of David, like in the life of Joseph.

1067
01:16:24,040 --> 01:16:28,720
You know, there's so many biblical leaders that you see the backstory for a reason.

1068
01:16:28,720 --> 01:16:30,080
Paul's another one that I love.

1069
01:16:30,080 --> 01:16:33,800
You know, Paul has this incredible encounter with Christ.

1070
01:16:33,800 --> 01:16:38,920
He's debating and witnessing and preaching in the synagogues immediately, but then he

1071
01:16:38,920 --> 01:16:45,600
goes away into the wilderness of Arabia for 13, 14 years and has no communication with

1072
01:16:45,600 --> 01:16:49,360
the apostolic council other than here or there.

1073
01:16:49,360 --> 01:16:53,080
And it's only when the Lord reveals that it's time to go up that he steps out.

1074
01:16:53,080 --> 01:16:59,920
So he's in this delay cycle waiting for the fullness of the assignment.

1075
01:16:59,920 --> 01:17:05,020
And when the fullness of assignment comes, he hits the ground running like a shot.

1076
01:17:05,020 --> 01:17:06,200
You know what I'm saying?

1077
01:17:06,200 --> 01:17:12,320
It's like the timing of heaven, the purpose of heaven, the giftings and the maturing sanctification

1078
01:17:12,320 --> 01:17:16,640
process has completed enough to where the Lord's inviting you into the fullness of what

1079
01:17:16,640 --> 01:17:19,800
he's called you to because his timing is right.

1080
01:17:19,800 --> 01:17:20,800
Hallelujah.

1081
01:17:20,800 --> 01:17:24,320
They sounded different, didn't it?

1082
01:17:24,320 --> 01:17:26,760
That kind of had a little more energy to it.

1083
01:17:26,760 --> 01:17:27,760
Come on.

1084
01:17:27,760 --> 01:17:33,320
And you know, you were talking about a lot of times it's the enemy within, right?

1085
01:17:33,320 --> 01:17:38,920
The betrayal that we see in ministry and how many churches we've seen split because somebody

1086
01:17:38,920 --> 01:17:40,920
felt like they've been slighted in life.

1087
01:17:40,920 --> 01:17:43,480
Somebody, like you said, they feel the calling.

1088
01:17:43,480 --> 01:17:48,820
They know God's calling them and they want it quicker than it's happening.

1089
01:17:48,820 --> 01:17:55,880
My thing is this is what if our mind shift was, Lord, I do not want to step into that

1090
01:17:55,880 --> 01:18:02,000
until you know that I'm prepared and that I'm ready because no authority is given except

1091
01:18:02,000 --> 01:18:03,000
such by God.

1092
01:18:03,000 --> 01:18:04,000
Right.

1093
01:18:04,000 --> 01:18:05,180
If God wants you in that position, guess what?

1094
01:18:05,180 --> 01:18:06,280
You're going to be in that position.

1095
01:18:06,280 --> 01:18:10,840
So if you're not in that position, then obviously there's still a process that we need to go

1096
01:18:10,840 --> 01:18:11,840
to.

1097
01:18:11,840 --> 01:18:12,880
Let's say it like this.

1098
01:18:12,880 --> 01:18:17,280
I believe the Lord is not setting any of us up for failure.

1099
01:18:17,280 --> 01:18:19,480
And it doesn't mean we won't experience setbacks.

1100
01:18:19,480 --> 01:18:25,880
And we can't, you know, Paul didn't voice his setbacks as a negative.

1101
01:18:25,880 --> 01:18:31,880
He used them as qualification for the apostolic call on his life.

1102
01:18:31,880 --> 01:18:40,460
But I've learned that even betrayal is an indicator that I'm on the right track.

1103
01:18:40,460 --> 01:18:43,000
But it's also a testing process.

1104
01:18:43,000 --> 01:18:48,760
If I'll even let the betrayals, let the Lord deal with those, but not, you know, just not

1105
01:18:48,760 --> 01:18:54,380
let them suck me because those things come to suck you in and take you off course.

1106
01:18:54,380 --> 01:18:58,680
But the only way they get me is if I'm trying to promote myself faster because the Lord's

1107
01:18:58,680 --> 01:19:01,160
not going to set us up for failure.

1108
01:19:01,160 --> 01:19:05,520
If I'm speaking in football terms, there are too many times we see people out punting their

1109
01:19:05,520 --> 01:19:06,520
coverage.

1110
01:19:06,520 --> 01:19:07,520
You know what I'm saying?

1111
01:19:07,520 --> 01:19:11,960
They're trying to get into a space that God probably legitimately has for them, which

1112
01:19:11,960 --> 01:19:13,520
is why it's in their heart.

1113
01:19:13,520 --> 01:19:15,320
They're just trying to get into it ahead of time.

1114
01:19:15,320 --> 01:19:20,360
And sometimes the Lord in his wisdom will let us, okay, go ahead, go ahead and run over

1115
01:19:20,360 --> 01:19:21,360
there.

1116
01:19:21,360 --> 01:19:26,080
You know, if we're sticking with the football analogy outside of your coverage and see what

1117
01:19:26,080 --> 01:19:32,440
it feels like because there's an attack of the enemy that comes within the realm of grace.

1118
01:19:32,440 --> 01:19:34,200
Come on, I'm preaching real good right here.

1119
01:19:34,200 --> 01:19:39,240
There's attack of the enemy that comes when I'm in the realm of my assignment.

1120
01:19:39,240 --> 01:19:43,600
And even though it's warfare, I'm equipped to withstand it.

1121
01:19:43,600 --> 01:19:47,480
But then there's an attack of the enemy that comes when I'm exposed.

1122
01:19:47,480 --> 01:19:53,440
And when I'm exposed, it's because I've put myself in a place that God has not yet authorized

1123
01:19:53,440 --> 01:19:54,960
me to step into.

1124
01:19:54,960 --> 01:20:00,960
And the enemy has an access to me that does not have a grace bubble around it.

1125
01:20:00,960 --> 01:20:09,080
See, Paul had this, this contention with heaven and that was, Lord, I am tired of the persecution

1126
01:20:09,080 --> 01:20:13,440
everywhere I go, the Judaizers are stirred up against me.

1127
01:20:13,440 --> 01:20:18,000
And three times he took it to the Lord because the persecution was so intense.

1128
01:20:18,000 --> 01:20:22,640
But three times the Lord said, no, I'm not going to take that away because you're carrying

1129
01:20:22,640 --> 01:20:27,180
revelation that I have to give to somebody.

1130
01:20:27,180 --> 01:20:32,320
And the only thing that's going to keep you in check in this moment is the persecution

1131
01:20:32,320 --> 01:20:33,480
that I put you around.

1132
01:20:33,480 --> 01:20:37,680
But it's not persecution outside of the grace that's on your life.

1133
01:20:37,680 --> 01:20:40,080
It's not persecution that can take you out.

1134
01:20:40,080 --> 01:20:45,520
It's actually persecution that's going to propel you forward in the things I've called

1135
01:20:45,520 --> 01:20:49,720
you to because your call to those arenas.

1136
01:20:49,720 --> 01:20:53,320
Now if the persecution could take him out, that would be a clear indicator that Paul

1137
01:20:53,320 --> 01:20:55,600
was outside of the grace.

1138
01:20:55,600 --> 01:20:58,280
But God said, no, I'm not going to take out the hardships.

1139
01:20:58,280 --> 01:21:04,540
Instead, I'm going to give you a greater revelation of the empowerment that's on you.

1140
01:21:04,540 --> 01:21:05,540
And I love this.

1141
01:21:05,540 --> 01:21:10,840
If you look to Acts chapter 27, the most profound thing happens because Paul's coming

1142
01:21:10,840 --> 01:21:14,900
into this culmination of his ministry cycle.

1143
01:21:14,900 --> 01:21:22,920
And Paul himself, who is a prophet, he says to, and Acts 27 is where they're pressing

1144
01:21:22,920 --> 01:21:24,440
out into the storm.

1145
01:21:24,440 --> 01:21:29,600
And Paul tells the ship owner and the Roman centurion, look, if you all do this, it's

1146
01:21:29,600 --> 01:21:34,160
not only going to end with great destruction to the ship, but it's also going to include

1147
01:21:34,160 --> 01:21:35,160
a lot of life.

1148
01:21:35,160 --> 01:21:38,440
Now, come on, hang on right here because this is a really good part.

1149
01:21:38,440 --> 01:21:45,020
But the overriding plans of heaven are in this moment as well.

1150
01:21:45,020 --> 01:21:51,040
So Paul, even though he has an unction, if we do this, it's going to be at great destruction.

1151
01:21:51,040 --> 01:21:56,000
We see as they press into the storm, there is great destruction, but there's no loss

1152
01:21:56,000 --> 01:21:57,000
of life.

1153
01:21:57,000 --> 01:22:00,440
Finally, Paul tells him, go ahead and eat because I've had a vision from an angel.

1154
01:22:00,440 --> 01:22:02,400
And the angel said this.

1155
01:22:02,400 --> 01:22:04,200
Don't fear, Paul.

1156
01:22:04,200 --> 01:22:09,680
The higher call on your life is superseding this moment and the ship may be destroyed,

1157
01:22:09,680 --> 01:22:13,800
but you're going to stand before Caesar because that was the high place that God was taking

1158
01:22:13,800 --> 01:22:14,960
Paul to in the moment.

1159
01:22:14,960 --> 01:22:15,960
Right?

1160
01:22:15,960 --> 01:22:19,800
And oh, as a bonus, there'll be no loss of life.

1161
01:22:19,800 --> 01:22:27,440
So the fullness of the calling with persecution landed in a moment where heaven, and this

1162
01:22:27,440 --> 01:22:30,600
is where I love, I'm learning to love.

1163
01:22:30,600 --> 01:22:33,480
You got to be careful when you say this because it's scary when you look back and say, man,

1164
01:22:33,480 --> 01:22:35,280
did I let that come out of my mouth?

1165
01:22:35,280 --> 01:22:41,560
I'm learning to love the moments of persecution I experienced in the bubble of grace within

1166
01:22:41,560 --> 01:22:46,040
the realms of authority that I know I've been given permission to go into because I know

1167
01:22:46,040 --> 01:22:47,900
heaven's got me covered in those.

1168
01:22:47,900 --> 01:22:52,240
The ones that should scare us all is when we step into arenas that God hasn't authorized

1169
01:22:52,240 --> 01:22:53,240
us to.

1170
01:22:53,240 --> 01:22:58,080
We know he has them, but he hasn't authorized us yet because those things will take me out

1171
01:22:58,080 --> 01:23:03,800
and I will have stepped into a place that the coverage of heaven is not going to intervene.

1172
01:23:03,800 --> 01:23:12,760
But even when the idiocy and the ignorance of other people press Paul into a situation

1173
01:23:12,760 --> 01:23:19,000
where everyone should be lost, come on, I feel the Holy Ghost on this.

1174
01:23:19,000 --> 01:23:22,000
Yes, sir.

1175
01:23:22,000 --> 01:23:29,080
The overriding purposes of heaven stepped in and said, no, this is where grace is far

1176
01:23:29,080 --> 01:23:33,440
greater than anything the enemy can throw at you because you're going to stand before

1177
01:23:33,440 --> 01:23:35,040
Caesar.

1178
01:23:35,040 --> 01:23:39,300
And standing before Caesar, it wasn't about Caesar's salvation.

1179
01:23:39,300 --> 01:23:45,560
It was that heaven was getting ready to announce a greater kingdom at the highest authority

1180
01:23:45,560 --> 01:23:46,760
in the land.

1181
01:23:46,760 --> 01:23:49,240
There was a confrontation.

1182
01:23:49,240 --> 01:23:53,560
Come on, we're talking about, you know, we love how we keep going to the end of the world

1183
01:23:53,560 --> 01:23:54,700
and the Antichrist.

1184
01:23:54,700 --> 01:24:00,440
There's a confrontation at the highest level of human governance where the kingdom of God

1185
01:24:00,440 --> 01:24:03,940
is getting ready to be announced at the highest level.

1186
01:24:03,940 --> 01:24:05,480
And watch what happens.

1187
01:24:05,480 --> 01:24:09,440
Then the clock is ticking on Rome.

1188
01:24:09,440 --> 01:24:14,120
The kingdom's been announced and now the clock is ticking.

1189
01:24:14,120 --> 01:24:22,200
And it's not about Caesar accepting Christ or not, it's that the kingdoms of God have

1190
01:24:22,200 --> 01:24:30,760
become, or the kingdoms of men have become the kingdoms of our God, his Christ.

1191
01:24:30,760 --> 01:24:37,620
So the long and the short of that is embrace the process.

1192
01:24:37,620 --> 01:24:42,380
You know, none of us want to sign up for the uncomfortable thing.

1193
01:24:42,380 --> 01:24:48,000
But I will sign up for standing before Caesar, which is the culmination of the fullness,

1194
01:24:48,000 --> 01:24:51,640
however many shipwrecks, come on Ross, you know this, no matter how many shipwrecks you

1195
01:24:51,640 --> 01:24:56,480
go through, how many people have betrayed you, sold you out.

1196
01:24:56,480 --> 01:25:03,280
There is a place where we're moving in the coverage of heaven that goes so far beyond

1197
01:25:03,280 --> 01:25:06,540
even the betrayal we experience at this level.

1198
01:25:06,540 --> 01:25:07,960
Look at where the Lord has placed you.

1199
01:25:07,960 --> 01:25:12,800
You're so far, I mean you're in a place that you could not have put yourself, you know,

1200
01:25:12,800 --> 01:25:17,160
even though it feels like at times you're holding on to the broken pieces of the ship,

1201
01:25:17,160 --> 01:25:18,160
right?

1202
01:25:18,160 --> 01:25:22,380
You know, I'm just floating on the broken pieces.

1203
01:25:22,380 --> 01:25:26,640
But the angel of the Lord appeared and said, but don't fear, you're going to stand before

1204
01:25:26,640 --> 01:25:27,640
Caesar.

1205
01:25:27,640 --> 01:25:30,400
This thing's going to go all the way to the end.

1206
01:25:30,400 --> 01:25:35,120
Come on, it's going to go all the way to the end.

1207
01:25:35,120 --> 01:25:42,720
It's going to go all the way to the end and nothing is going to keep that from happening,

1208
01:25:42,720 --> 01:25:45,680
not the trials, not the tests, not the persecution.

1209
01:25:45,680 --> 01:25:47,360
What was Jesus really saying to him?

1210
01:25:47,360 --> 01:25:50,120
Get your eyes off of that.

1211
01:25:50,120 --> 01:25:57,360
Get your eyes off of that because if you'll learn to lean into grace right here, it cannot,

1212
01:25:57,360 --> 01:26:02,160
that persecution, whatever the enemy's doing, we have to see persecution or we have to see

1213
01:26:02,160 --> 01:26:04,680
the thorn in the flesh as spiritual warfare.

1214
01:26:04,680 --> 01:26:10,480
It doesn't even matter what the manifestation, too many times we have wasted too much time

1215
01:26:10,480 --> 01:26:15,600
arguing over what it is and we missed the point of what it was for.

1216
01:26:15,600 --> 01:26:17,240
That's good.

1217
01:26:17,240 --> 01:26:23,320
It's spiritual warfare that's come to distract us and get us off course.

1218
01:26:23,320 --> 01:26:25,120
It can't stop us.

1219
01:26:25,120 --> 01:26:26,120
Why?

1220
01:26:26,120 --> 01:26:28,720
Because Paul came up the process the same way.

1221
01:26:28,720 --> 01:26:30,660
Why couldn't David be taken by Absalom?

1222
01:26:30,660 --> 01:26:33,660
Because he came up the process the same way.

1223
01:26:33,660 --> 01:26:37,120
Why couldn't Joseph?

1224
01:26:37,120 --> 01:26:38,400
Why didn't prison take him out?

1225
01:26:38,400 --> 01:26:39,680
Why didn't slavery take him out?

1226
01:26:39,680 --> 01:26:41,000
Why didn't betrayal take him out?

1227
01:26:41,000 --> 01:26:42,000
Why?

1228
01:26:42,000 --> 01:26:44,560
Because he stayed in process and he kept his heart right.

1229
01:26:44,560 --> 01:26:50,840
Because this is what I was saying earlier, it became very clear that heaven had an agenda.

1230
01:26:50,840 --> 01:26:53,240
What ultimately are we all going to stand on?

1231
01:26:53,240 --> 01:26:55,320
Heaven's got an agenda for you.

1232
01:26:55,320 --> 01:26:57,120
You don't fully realize it yet.

1233
01:26:57,120 --> 01:26:58,120
You know, I'm speaking to me.

1234
01:26:58,120 --> 01:27:01,000
I don't fully realize it, but I know heaven's got an agenda.

1235
01:27:01,000 --> 01:27:07,360
As long as I'll stay connected to that process and stay within the coverage of grace that

1236
01:27:07,360 --> 01:27:10,760
goes with that process and be content.

1237
01:27:10,760 --> 01:27:14,740
You know, that's where godliness with contentment is great gain.

1238
01:27:14,740 --> 01:27:20,200
That I'm not trying to be something like you said, you know, the vanity of bigger audience,

1239
01:27:20,200 --> 01:27:21,200
bigger this, bigger that.

1240
01:27:21,200 --> 01:27:24,840
You know, we were talking about discipleship earlier and it just occurred to me, man, if

1241
01:27:24,840 --> 01:27:29,840
you had five people sold out that you were discipling, I mean, could the town of Hobbes,

1242
01:27:29,840 --> 01:27:34,480
New Mexico withstand the backlash of what that would be?

1243
01:27:34,480 --> 01:27:39,600
I mean, give me five people that are just willing to just throw it all down and run

1244
01:27:39,600 --> 01:27:40,600
the gauntlet.

1245
01:27:40,600 --> 01:27:41,600
You don't even need five.

1246
01:27:41,600 --> 01:27:44,280
I mean, if you have three or four of those, you could just turn that whole thing upside

1247
01:27:44,280 --> 01:27:46,720
down because revival is coming.

1248
01:27:46,720 --> 01:27:48,400
I'm going to shut up with that.

1249
01:27:48,400 --> 01:27:53,040
Revival is coming, but the reformation had to come first.

1250
01:27:53,040 --> 01:27:54,480
Amen.

1251
01:27:54,480 --> 01:27:59,560
See, we just had to talk long enough until Steve got stirred up and started preaching.

1252
01:27:59,560 --> 01:28:06,040
And then that's where the real juice was going to start coming.

1253
01:28:06,040 --> 01:28:12,040
So one thing I would add to that about the process when you're carrying the burden of

1254
01:28:12,040 --> 01:28:16,280
a calling and a calling is accompanied by desires.

1255
01:28:16,280 --> 01:28:21,560
Some of the deepest desires are your desires to give expression to what Jesus Christ has

1256
01:28:21,560 --> 01:28:23,840
laid a hold of you for.

1257
01:28:23,840 --> 01:28:30,360
The biggest temptation in the process is to want to reach out and manipulate the process

1258
01:28:30,360 --> 01:28:36,680
to gratify that thing, that itch, that hunger that you have.

1259
01:28:36,680 --> 01:28:41,760
Which is why it was a real temptation when the enemy pulls Jesus up to the high place

1260
01:28:41,760 --> 01:28:47,160
and he shows him the kingdoms of men and their glory.

1261
01:28:47,160 --> 01:28:50,640
Because it was, which means he really had them.

1262
01:28:50,640 --> 01:28:56,600
It was something he could really give Jesus and it wasn't, Jesus didn't say, I'm not interested

1263
01:28:56,600 --> 01:28:57,600
in that.

1264
01:28:57,600 --> 01:29:03,040
He just wasn't going to get it in an illegitimate way because that is actually what he was coming

1265
01:29:03,040 --> 01:29:04,040
for.

1266
01:29:04,040 --> 01:29:05,040
Exactly.

1267
01:29:05,040 --> 01:29:17,000
And part of finishing the process is no longer being tempted by that itch to manipulate,

1268
01:29:17,000 --> 01:29:27,800
to distort, to put false acceleration on the things that God wants to do.

1269
01:29:27,800 --> 01:29:33,400
Just like with David, with Absalom, he just got up and left town.

1270
01:29:33,400 --> 01:29:38,840
Well think about it on the front side, how many opportunities David had to take Saul

1271
01:29:38,840 --> 01:29:39,840
out.

1272
01:29:39,840 --> 01:29:40,840
Yeah.

1273
01:29:40,840 --> 01:29:43,120
And to take what was rightly his.

1274
01:29:43,120 --> 01:29:47,400
But even the elders said, oh David, we always knew it was you.

1275
01:29:47,400 --> 01:29:48,760
We always knew it was you, right?

1276
01:29:48,760 --> 01:29:50,000
But we had to go along with Saul.

1277
01:29:50,000 --> 01:29:51,840
You know, Saul was a king.

1278
01:29:51,840 --> 01:29:57,440
It's like, wow, do you hear the words come out of your mouth right at this moment?

1279
01:29:57,440 --> 01:30:02,160
You know, I know we were trying to kill you, but we really wanted you dead.

1280
01:30:02,160 --> 01:30:08,000
And with the Absalom thing, not only am I not going to defend this, I'm not even going

1281
01:30:08,000 --> 01:30:09,600
to be present when it goes down.

1282
01:30:09,600 --> 01:30:13,520
I'll just leave you here for the Lord to just deal with you directly.

1283
01:30:13,520 --> 01:30:14,520
Yeah.

1284
01:30:14,520 --> 01:30:16,000
And that's what happened.

1285
01:30:16,000 --> 01:30:22,440
So you guys got anything else you want to say?

1286
01:30:22,440 --> 01:30:25,200
I mean that was very good.

1287
01:30:25,200 --> 01:30:27,560
That was very good.

1288
01:30:27,560 --> 01:30:33,000
You know, and as leaders step into this and as the body steps into this, I think what's

1289
01:30:33,000 --> 01:30:39,040
really important to understand is to be what God is calling you to be.

1290
01:30:39,040 --> 01:30:40,620
You know what I mean?

1291
01:30:40,620 --> 01:30:41,880
People might hear somebody.

1292
01:30:41,880 --> 01:30:45,200
Yes, people might hear somebody preach in the style that they preach in the style that

1293
01:30:45,200 --> 01:30:46,800
they do it.

1294
01:30:46,800 --> 01:30:48,800
And all of a sudden I want to be like him.

1295
01:30:48,800 --> 01:30:52,700
And it goes back to what you were talking about, you know, the atmosphere of that one

1296
01:30:52,700 --> 01:30:57,080
man show, you know, everyone's looking up to that one man and they want to be like that

1297
01:30:57,080 --> 01:31:02,780
one man and they're not walking in their anointing because they're trying to put on somebody else's

1298
01:31:02,780 --> 01:31:03,780
anointing.

1299
01:31:03,780 --> 01:31:04,780
Right.

1300
01:31:04,780 --> 01:31:06,720
And that's what I love about you, man, is you are you.

1301
01:31:06,720 --> 01:31:08,120
You're not trying to be anybody else.

1302
01:31:08,120 --> 01:31:09,600
Well, I've done some of that.

1303
01:31:09,600 --> 01:31:11,720
If I'm being 100 percent honest, we all have.

1304
01:31:11,720 --> 01:31:13,600
Yeah, we all we're all guilty.

1305
01:31:13,600 --> 01:31:15,100
Yeah, I'm guilty.

1306
01:31:15,100 --> 01:31:16,600
And I believe in training wheels.

1307
01:31:16,600 --> 01:31:22,200
I believe I think spiritual training wheels where we're emulating, you know, I believe

1308
01:31:22,200 --> 01:31:27,400
the Lord gives us mentors that move something in us legitimately.

1309
01:31:27,400 --> 01:31:29,200
And so emulating is where it started.

1310
01:31:29,200 --> 01:31:37,080
But if if that mentor, I believe, is a spiritual father, they will help us find our own in

1311
01:31:37,080 --> 01:31:38,840
that process.

1312
01:31:38,840 --> 01:31:41,760
So yeah, follow me for a minute.

1313
01:31:41,760 --> 01:31:45,880
But eventually your authentic voice is going to come out in that.

1314
01:31:45,880 --> 01:31:48,440
But it's not going to be illegitimate because you're a son.

1315
01:31:48,440 --> 01:31:49,440
Right.

1316
01:31:49,440 --> 01:31:52,360
And you don't have to leave and go find it somewhere else.

1317
01:31:52,360 --> 01:31:57,960
You can actually stay in the house and find the calling that God has for you, because

1318
01:31:57,960 --> 01:31:58,960
that's family.

1319
01:31:58,960 --> 01:32:00,640
I mean, that's kingdom is family.

1320
01:32:00,640 --> 01:32:07,800
And it's not, unfortunately, a lot of what this sanitized process that we've seen.

1321
01:32:07,800 --> 01:32:09,880
We've seen a lot of ways of how not to do it.

1322
01:32:09,880 --> 01:32:12,920
I think we're just at a moment where the Lord is saying and I'm giving you the tools and

1323
01:32:12,920 --> 01:32:18,600
the experience, you know, part of David, it's interesting.

1324
01:32:18,600 --> 01:32:22,800
It says David's throne, I think, was 40 years and Saul's was either 43 or 44.

1325
01:32:22,800 --> 01:32:25,560
And it was so funny, I was just meditating on that.

1326
01:32:25,560 --> 01:32:30,300
And I felt like the Lord was just saying, look, David had a long run under Saul to see

1327
01:32:30,300 --> 01:32:32,960
what not to do.

1328
01:32:32,960 --> 01:32:39,800
You know, and that certainly played into his ability to govern differently.

1329
01:32:39,800 --> 01:32:44,120
And I think the Lord's given us a long tenure of what not to do, not and I'm not saying

1330
01:32:44,120 --> 01:32:48,040
that arrogantly, I'm just saying there's a lot of things that heaven is not doing in

1331
01:32:48,040 --> 01:32:49,940
this next season.

1332
01:32:49,940 --> 01:32:55,680
And to not latch on to that and try to emulate something old.

1333
01:32:55,680 --> 01:32:56,680
I think that's important.

1334
01:32:56,680 --> 01:32:59,840
I think that's important because I believe that's true.

1335
01:32:59,840 --> 01:33:04,040
I will not latch on to something old that's fake, but something old that's real.

1336
01:33:04,040 --> 01:33:05,040
Something old that's real.

1337
01:33:05,040 --> 01:33:06,040
Right.

1338
01:33:06,040 --> 01:33:07,040
You know, Paul said everything, right?

1339
01:33:07,040 --> 01:33:11,880
You know, I count it all as loss, the good, the bad, that ugly, you know, because there's

1340
01:33:11,880 --> 01:33:14,080
a moment that you step into.

1341
01:33:14,080 --> 01:33:19,720
And when we say God's doing a new thing, we've so overused that we've lost the potency of

1342
01:33:19,720 --> 01:33:20,720
what it means.

1343
01:33:20,720 --> 01:33:25,200
It means we're talking about something that maybe hasn't been seen in this generation,

1344
01:33:25,200 --> 01:33:29,960
you know, something that doesn't have a new thing is not the next thing.

1345
01:33:29,960 --> 01:33:30,960
Right.

1346
01:33:30,960 --> 01:33:35,600
I mean, the next thing is predicated by the former thing, but a new thing means maybe

1347
01:33:35,600 --> 01:33:40,360
it's not an add on to what was right before.

1348
01:33:40,360 --> 01:33:41,360
Right on.

1349
01:33:41,360 --> 01:33:42,360
Amen.

1350
01:33:42,360 --> 01:33:47,360
Well, is this a good stop in place?

1351
01:33:47,360 --> 01:33:49,120
I think that's the show.

1352
01:33:49,120 --> 01:33:51,120
I think so, too.

1353
01:33:51,120 --> 01:33:52,120
I'm glad.

1354
01:33:52,120 --> 01:33:53,120
No, I.

1355
01:33:53,120 --> 01:33:57,560
I think when the Holy Spirit stops, you stop.

1356
01:33:57,560 --> 01:33:59,040
And you shared that with us earlier.

1357
01:33:59,040 --> 01:34:02,880
We said when the Holy Spirit stops, you just sit back.

1358
01:34:02,880 --> 01:34:03,880
You're done.

1359
01:34:03,880 --> 01:34:04,880
Yeah.

1360
01:34:04,880 --> 01:34:05,880
It's not you can add to it.

1361
01:34:05,880 --> 01:34:06,880
You can't help the Holy Ghost.

1362
01:34:06,880 --> 01:34:07,880
It's tempting.

1363
01:34:07,880 --> 01:34:08,880
Just being honest.

1364
01:34:08,880 --> 01:34:16,480
You just want to get in there and keep going, keep it going.

1365
01:34:16,480 --> 01:34:20,400
Well, listen, the conversation is going to continue going.

1366
01:34:20,400 --> 01:34:22,440
Just the recording is going to stop.

1367
01:34:22,440 --> 01:34:29,200
So let's keep that straight because this has been too good to not continue.

1368
01:34:29,200 --> 01:34:32,440
But listen, this is there isn't anything better than this.

1369
01:34:32,440 --> 01:34:36,080
There isn't anything better than feeling the Holy Spirit moving and working through each

1370
01:34:36,080 --> 01:34:44,200
other and just feeling encouraged by that.

1371
01:34:44,200 --> 01:34:48,080
You know, so let me close this in a word of prayer.

1372
01:34:48,080 --> 01:34:49,600
We'll close it.

1373
01:34:49,600 --> 01:34:57,640
Well, Father, just to kind of put a nice punctuation point on this, we just want to thank you for

1374
01:34:57,640 --> 01:35:02,760
ministering to us in this conversation in this moment.

1375
01:35:02,760 --> 01:35:08,160
Father, thank you for the things that you stirred up in our hearts that you spoke for.

1376
01:35:08,160 --> 01:35:09,160
They are profound.

1377
01:35:09,160 --> 01:35:10,160
They are powerful.

1378
01:35:10,160 --> 01:35:14,520
And so we just acknowledge you and thank you for ministering to us.

1379
01:35:14,520 --> 01:35:19,200
We pray that there would be people who watch this, who find great hope and encouragement

1380
01:35:19,200 --> 01:35:22,120
and direction from the things that were spoken.

1381
01:35:22,120 --> 01:35:30,400
Father, we pray that the things that we share will bear fruit in our homes, in our church,

1382
01:35:30,400 --> 01:35:31,400
in our communities.

1383
01:35:31,400 --> 01:35:37,080
We want the kingdom of God to be manifest on the earth as it is in heaven.

1384
01:35:37,080 --> 01:35:45,320
So thank you for breaking down strongholds of fear, doubt, insecurity and unbelief and

1385
01:35:45,320 --> 01:35:51,680
wedging yourself into the minds and hearts of your people to receive power from on high

1386
01:35:51,680 --> 01:35:58,420
to do things that will bear much fruit for you in their lives.

1387
01:35:58,420 --> 01:35:59,700
We thank you for this.

1388
01:35:59,700 --> 01:36:00,700
We love you.

1389
01:36:00,700 --> 01:36:02,280
It's in Jesus name we pray.

1390
01:36:02,280 --> 01:36:03,280
Amen.

1391
01:36:03,280 --> 01:36:26,980
Nice.