1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:12,360 Hello again Debbie. Hello. Welcome back. Thank you. We had a really good response to our last 2 00:00:12,360 --> 00:00:17,600 conversation so I am excited about doing another one and I think probably a lot of other people 3 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:22,040 will be as well. Oh good. But what I wanted to do, you introduced yourself last time. 4 00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:28,280 Okay. I know you teach a Sunday school class here at the church Sundays at 9 a.m. Yes. 5 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:34,560 Tell us a little bit about what you're studying right now. We are just starting a new book. 6 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:42,040 We finished Esther with Max Locato, his book on Esther and we just are starting a book 7 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:50,600 from David Jeremiah called The Overcomer. He's going to really dig into the armor of 8 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:58,120 God and how we can protect ourselves and every chapter is about a different piece of the 9 00:00:58,120 --> 00:01:05,560 armor. Right now he started the opening with David and Goliath. Wow. And he told the ultimate 10 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:13,080 overcomer story. Yes. The poster child for overcomer but he's going to end with Jesus 11 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:21,240 Christ who of course is the ultimate overcomer. So it's going to be good. Anyone who would 12 00:01:21,240 --> 00:01:28,200 be interested, we'd love to have them. We do all of our reading in class and we have some great 13 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:33,720 discussions about what we're reading as we're reading through the book. Well you're very gracious 14 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:43,160 towards your class. We'd have like I used to just berate people. We're going to read one chapter, 15 00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:48,520 have the chapter read, underline stuff and have stuff to discuss with the class. And they would 16 00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:54,760 try like five minutes before the class. You haven't thought about it. Right. So you've kind 17 00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:59,800 of just thrown in the towel and say we'll just read it in class. Yes. Okay I understand. I 18 00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:06,280 understand. Well I'm going to let you lead our conversation today. Okay. So where would you like 19 00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:14,280 to start? Well I know you're starting a new series and it is The Big Picture, The Covenants, 20 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:20,520 and Sunday was about the big picture of Scripture. And you went back to Genesis, 21 00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:29,400 but you're preparing us to be a New Testament church. And so some of the things that you 22 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:37,880 talked about of course about God first of all and about God's original plan is still the plan. 23 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:44,040 Right. And that there's not another plan. But from that a couple of things that I wrote down 24 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:54,360 because most of us know that much. We know creation. We know the Garden of Eden. But you talked 25 00:02:54,360 --> 00:03:00,600 about and if I quote this wrong, correct me. Okay. Sometimes I paraphrase in my own words 26 00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:08,280 that God will resurrect you with the skills that you have developed in this life. And so I'd like 27 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:18,120 to know more about that. Okay. When you say skills are you talking about the work we all the work 28 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:27,240 that we do while we're here or is it divided into the work we do for God and his ministry. What does 29 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:38,680 that look like? So this is a big topic. One of the goals of this series is to lay the foundation for 30 00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:43,800 interpreting Bible prophecy. Okay. So we're going to talk about the covenants this Sunday. 31 00:03:45,320 --> 00:03:50,200 How the Abrahamic covenant is basically God's commission to Adam in the Garden of Eden. Eden. 32 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:56,440 It's the same thing. He's going to give him a specific plot of land from which he is going to 33 00:03:56,440 --> 00:04:01,480 have a line of kings and he's going to multiply and have descendants as many as the sand on the 34 00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:06,440 seashore. Right. Right. It's the exact same thing God tells Adam to do in the Garden of Eden. He 35 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:13,640 tells Abraham to do. He's just rebooting the same plan. So all of this is going to lay the foundation 36 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:17,400 for how do we interpret Bible prophecy, which is very complicated. 37 00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:22,200 Right. I mean there aren't that many pastors or even seminary professors that understand 38 00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:31,640 Bible prophecy. And so but if you understand the covenants, Bible prophecy seeks to answer the 39 00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:39,080 question, how and when is God going to fulfill these promises in scripture? So 40 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:49,240 we're going to speak about things you can find, ideas that are implicit in Bible prophecy. So 41 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:59,080 the resurrection, okay. Some implicit ideas in that. God is resurrecting something that existed 42 00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:03,880 beforehand. That's something we discussed I think in our last podcast. 43 00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:09,240 It's the same body. It's the same brain. Your brain will have the same information. 44 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:16,280 You know, and so God isn't going to wave a magic wand over your brain and download a bunch of 45 00:05:16,280 --> 00:05:23,560 information. You know, the process is going to be energized and glorified, but it's going to be the 46 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:30,440 same. There's still going to be a process for learning new skills. And so God is going to 47 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:38,680 have a starting point. Your character, your understanding, there's a starting point for the 48 00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:43,960 process of learning new skills to build a new kingdom. God's going to have all kinds of new 49 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:52,760 ideas, you know, but yeah, he's going to take the starting point that you have is what he's going to 50 00:05:52,760 --> 00:06:00,840 resurrect. He will glorify that and we don't know what that means or how it's going to work, but 51 00:06:00,840 --> 00:06:05,160 there's going to be a starting point. You know, you're not going to become a super disciple just 52 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:09,400 because you've been raised from the dead. If you were a lazy, half-hearted, lukewarm Christian, 53 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:13,640 when you were raised from the dead, that's going to be reflected in your resurrected body. Now it 54 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:20,120 says this in 1 Corinthians 15, okay. Okay. Did we cover that last week? I don't remember. 55 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:27,160 I don't think so. I'll edit it in like I did last time. Okay. 1 Corinthians 15, Paul is talking 56 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:30,760 about the resurrection from the dead. Almost the whole chapter is about the resurrection from the 57 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:40,440 dead and he's comparing different kinds of bodies. He's like the body of a fish is different from the 58 00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:47,480 body of an animal and so forth and so on. And he also talks about the stars. He says, so the 59 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:56,040 star differs from star in brightness and you think about the vast variety of differences in brightness 60 00:06:56,040 --> 00:07:05,400 of stars. Paul says, so it will be at the resurrection from the dead. And he goes on, you 61 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:10,840 fool, don't you know that what you sow, you know, if you sow an apple, you're not going to grow an 62 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:15,480 orange, you know, that type of thing with a type of seed. And he's talking about the 63 00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:23,560 type of seed and he's talking about what we sow in this life is going to be manifest at the 64 00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:29,080 resurrection from the dead. And just as there's a variety of different glories of body here and now, 65 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:35,880 that's going to be how it's going to be at the resurrection from the dead. So we're sowing by 66 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:43,480 developing first of all as disciples, uh, there are competence in other areas like you worked in 67 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:51,320 the school system. So you had to develop competence leading and managing people, right? Right. That's 68 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:58,440 a competence that God intends to use in some form or fashion in the next stage. And that's why it's 69 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:05,720 very important that we're obedient to follow the Holy Spirit into, uh, taking our assigned 70 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:11,320 spot in this life. You know, it's like, I didn't want to be a preacher as the last, literally that 71 00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:16,280 was the last thing on earth I wanted to do with my life is like, it was almost like I couldn't 72 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:25,240 avoid it. So, uh, but once I accepted it, I was like, I love what I do, you know? Yes. Uh, but 73 00:08:26,360 --> 00:08:31,800 God's going to put us in the slot where he wants us in this life to develop us in some way because 74 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:37,800 he's got a plan in the future for that, you know, and our suffering and trials as well, you know? 75 00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:46,360 So that all, I, everything we're learning that would help further the kingdom, 76 00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:55,960 makes you feel good. Uh, but what about the weaknesses? So, um, let's just take worrying, 77 00:08:56,680 --> 00:09:06,120 you know, uh, do, will I in the, after the resurrection still be a worrier about things or 78 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:15,320 will that's an important question. You know, I, I wonder, is there going to be stress? 79 00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:25,720 You know, stress is actually a useful thing. Uh, am I going to be concerned about things? 80 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:31,000 I wouldn't use the term worry, but am I going to be concerned about things? Because really 81 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:36,040 low key fear like that is just what we're talking about at the end of the day really helps me to 82 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:43,240 focus and get motivated to do something hard. Okay. Right. Yeah. And so I don't know. It says in 83 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:49,880 the book of revelation that at the resurrection from the dead and the inauguration of the kingdom, 84 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:55,160 God will wipe every tear from every eye. Yes. Right. And I'm wondering, well, what are they crying 85 00:09:55,160 --> 00:09:59,560 about in the first place? They're in, they're in heaven. You know, here's your question. 86 00:09:59,560 --> 00:10:08,920 Yeah. Well, he wouldn't be wiping those away. That's true. Uh, but there are, uh, verses like, 87 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:15,480 I always get this wrong. First Corinthians chapter three, I believe every person's work will be 88 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:23,160 tested. Some will, uh, produce gold, silver and precious stones and they'll receive a reward. 89 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:28,040 Some will produce wood, hay and stubble and it will be burned up, but they will be saved 90 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:33,560 and they will suffer loss. It says, and they will enter the kingdom as one barely escaping the 91 00:10:33,560 --> 00:10:38,520 flames. That certainly doesn't sound very comfortable to me. It sounds like some negative 92 00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:46,040 emotions involved there to me, you know, so, but I don't think they will dominate us and paralyze 93 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:51,880 us like they do now. Like my worry, is it going to cause me to procrastinate like it does now, 94 00:10:51,880 --> 00:10:59,000 or it's not going to cause me to binge eat, you know, or whatever, however you deal with your 95 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:08,120 anxiety. Right. So, okay. All right. Well, so basically if, if, if I can summarize, tell me if 96 00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:16,840 I'm, I'm off here, whatever we're doing, we are growing or should be growing absolutely, uh, 97 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:24,840 into the, the person really God created us to be. Yep. Um, and so really all of it 98 00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:34,200 is helping us move toward that, toward that place or toward that time. Glorification. Uh, and I 99 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:40,680 believe we're going to continue to evolve, you know, cause we're, when, as we age, as we grow, 100 00:11:40,680 --> 00:11:47,240 we're evolving either positively or negatively. And I believe we are going to be evolving forever 101 00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:54,120 because God is an infinite being and we're growing into his image and likeness. There's unlimited 102 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:58,840 growth potential. That's one of the exciting things about heaven. You think about just a static 103 00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:05,000 existence where you never change or learn to develop. That sounds boring, you know? Right. 104 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:13,320 So that's the exciting thing. Our evolution is going to be going to hyperdrive, you know, uh, 105 00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:19,880 because our, our fallen nature, whatever that entails as far as our brain and emotional 106 00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:24,840 chemistry and things like that is going to be corrected. Everything's going to be corrected. 107 00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:29,560 And so we'll be able to make progress so much faster, but that's the exciting thing. We're 108 00:12:29,560 --> 00:12:34,120 going to still be making progress, you know, because we're going to be able to make progress 109 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:43,720 on that. You know, so all of that usually seems very, uh, vague. I mean, there's a verse here or 110 00:12:43,720 --> 00:12:54,920 there, but, um, it's hard to find, I guess, people who studied the Bible or pastors or who 111 00:12:54,920 --> 00:13:03,080 even agree about what all that will look like. So what do you, what do you use to base is, do you, 112 00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:09,800 I mean, I know you take the Bible, but do, do you, is there someone or something that kind of guide 113 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:15,800 you in pulling that together as well? Because, you know, it, there's a lot out there that's 114 00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:23,320 in some cases contradicting. That is the perfect question. That's why you're such a good partner 115 00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:30,680 in these podcasts. That is exactly the right question because that is a very contentious 116 00:13:30,680 --> 00:13:37,720 biblical eschatology and Bible prophecy is a very contentious, uh, topic and field of study. Okay. 117 00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:46,680 So yes, I have a high degree of certainty that we have the correct position. Now I'm not saying we, 118 00:13:46,680 --> 00:13:56,280 but we, we have it in, uh, in, in biblical history. Okay. So I'm going to give you three 119 00:13:56,280 --> 00:14:02,600 legs upon which we can have relative certainty that how we interpret Bible prophecy is correct. 120 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:08,600 Now, a lot of these things that we're going to be talking about aren't really about like 121 00:14:09,560 --> 00:14:15,640 premillennialism, postmillennialism. It's just, this is clearly, clearly what God has intended 122 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:19,720 for the future. Everybody believes that everybody believes we're going to be bodily resurrected 123 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:26,680 from the dead on this earth, uh, in a renewed heaven and earth. Okay. You know, so the, the, 124 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:31,480 uh, disagreements are about the process by which that's going to happen, but everybody has that 125 00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:37,800 endpoint. Okay. Uh, but we are going to be discussing the process. I believe that is an 126 00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:41,880 important conversation and I believe that we can have relatively high degree of certainty 127 00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:45,080 that we're understanding it correctly. Three things. 128 00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:52,280 We have the Dead Sea Scrolls. Okay. So the, and I would recommend this series. It's called the 129 00:14:52,280 --> 00:15:02,360 Perusia series on the foundrypress.org. Fascinating, fascinating. So the Zadok Priesthood 130 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:09,720 is mentioned in Ezekiel. They get this special assignment, allotment of land in the millennial 131 00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:14,440 kingdom after the return of Jesus. And I'm like, who are these people and why are they so special? 132 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:20,760 So I started doing research. Well, whenever Israel was falling apart and, uh, 133 00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:29,400 say two to 300 years before the coming of Jesus, these guys took all of the, the documents from 134 00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:35,640 the temple library and they went to the desert in Egypt and they took the temple library and 135 00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:41,400 they went to the desert in Egypt and they took the temple library with them to protect them so 136 00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:46,760 that they weren't, weren't lost. Well, those are the documents that were discovered in the Dead Sea 137 00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:55,160 Scrolls. And so they discipled this group of people called the Essenes. It is remarkable how accurate 138 00:15:55,160 --> 00:16:01,240 their prophecy was. So Josephus, the historian Josephus writes about the Essenes and he says, 139 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:07,000 they were rarely if ever wrong in anything they predicted. So let me tell you some of the amazing 140 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:13,560 things they predicted. They, they predicted to the year that Messiah was going to come, 141 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:18,920 that he was going to suffer and die and be crucified by the apostate religious leaders. 142 00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:24,680 And they predicted it. What happened on AD 30? Wow. Here's another thing they predicted. They 143 00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:31,240 predicted 40 years later, the temple would be destroyed. They predicted that a Benjamite 144 00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:40,760 would start a new priesthood with Gentile believers. I mean, it's crazy. And I could go on and on, 145 00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:45,880 but all of this is recorded in the Dead Sea Scrolls several hundred years before the New Testament 146 00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:54,760 times even happened. They predicted a literal future 1000 year reign of Jesus Christ. 147 00:16:56,280 --> 00:17:00,760 So people who criticize premillennialism, which is a way of understanding the end time say, 148 00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:04,680 well, there's only one verse in the Bible that even talks about that. Why do you take it literally? 149 00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:08,120 Well, there's a lot of other material that talks about it as well. So obviously 150 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:14,360 the Zadok priest and the Essenes, that's how they understood it. Okay. So we've got the, 151 00:17:14,360 --> 00:17:19,880 the testimony of the Dead Sea Scrolls. If we take the Bible to say what it means and means what it 152 00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:23,640 says, there will be a literal future 1000 year reign of Jesus Christ on the earth. That's from 153 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:30,280 the book of Revelation. You can also find that in the Old Testament. It doesn't necessarily talk 154 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:39,080 about a literal 1000 year reign, but it talks about an intermediary period after Messiah starts 155 00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:48,360 ruling before. And there's like this mixture between the two ages, let's say. So then you have 156 00:17:48,360 --> 00:17:53,720 the early church fathers, the early church fathers, those that existed within the first 300 years of 157 00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:59,080 the church were predominantly premillennial in their understanding of biblical eschatology. 158 00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:03,560 They believed in a literal future 1000 year reign of Jesus Christ on the earth in an 159 00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:10,920 intermediary period before we have a new heaven and a new earth. Okay. So, so I'll name, I'll name 160 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:18,760 a couple of names. Now, if I get these out of order, forgive me, but, uh, this, the story's 161 00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:25,480 going to be correct. There's a guy named Polycarp who was got to sit at the feet of the apostle John. 162 00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:32,520 Okay. And he's got, it's recorded in his writings. The apostle John told me personally there would 163 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:37,160 be a literal future 1000 year reign of Jesus Christ. So I like to say the apple doesn't fall 164 00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:43,560 far from the tree. Right. I'm pretty sure John probably understood what he was writing. Right. 165 00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:51,240 So you have Polycarp and you have another early church father named Papias and they both got to 166 00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:58,440 be in the orbit of the apostle John. So you've got Polycarp, Papias and Irenaeus. And so they 167 00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:05,560 were all kind of like Irenaeus was a disciple of Polycarp type of thing. They were all pre-millennial 168 00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:12,440 in their understanding of biblical eschatology or Bible prophecy. So I like to say pretty sure 169 00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:17,480 they probably knew what they were talking about. You know, uh, now there were other ways of 170 00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:28,360 understanding things, but, uh, Thomas Oden, who's considered the father of modern petristics, which 171 00:19:28,360 --> 00:19:35,160 is the study of the early church fathers. He was a Methodist, very highly regarded scholar. Uh, 172 00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:39,720 the majority of the early church fathers were pre-millennial in their understanding of 173 00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:44,280 scripture. So take those three things and then we'll throw John Wesley in there. Okay. So, 174 00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:50,440 and I've got all of this documented. If you were to go to, uh, the foundrypress.org, uh, I've got a 175 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:56,120 collection, a bundle of articles called a Wesleyan view of eschatology. All of this is documented. 176 00:19:56,120 --> 00:20:01,560 So you can go follow the links and look for yourself. John Wesley was presented with a 177 00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:07,960 pre-millennial view of, uh, scripture and he affirmed that it was the opinion of the early 178 00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:13,560 church fathers and it is correct. Now he was a mixture of post-millennial and pre-millennial 179 00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:21,160 when he was presented with a clear, uh, presentation of pre-millennialism. He says, yeah, that's right. 180 00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:29,160 You know? Yeah. So we've got those four things, things now, the Zadok priests, the Bible, the 181 00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:36,840 early church fathers, and John Wesley. And John Wesley was right about just about everything. He 182 00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:46,360 was, he was an amazing guy. Well, so that's going to drive your new series. I don't know how deep 183 00:20:46,360 --> 00:20:50,760 into the, the eschatology stuff we're going to get when we're talking about the big picture. 184 00:20:50,760 --> 00:21:00,760 We're just helping people get out of their, you know, those kinds of Disney world views of heaven 185 00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:09,160 that most people carry around in their brains. Um, you know, your future is on the earth in a 186 00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:16,360 resurrected body. Um, you're going to be participating in all kinds of projects, building a 187 00:21:16,360 --> 00:21:25,080 kingdom. And so don't just think you're going to hit the escape hatch and go on one giant 188 00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:30,680 vacation for the rest of eternity. That's not how it's going to work. It's going to be a 189 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:35,000 work, you know, there's work to be done. There's work to be done. And that, and that ought to be 190 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:42,440 exciting. I know we have, we still deal with the curse here and now. So we kind of have a negative 191 00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:47,560 association with work, but there are people who love their work and there isn't anything they'd 192 00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:56,280 rather be doing. And that's kind of what God has in mind for us, you know? Right. So, well, when I 193 00:21:56,280 --> 00:22:05,400 think about the two views, one that everything will be, as you said before, um, not thinking 194 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:11,480 about having to work or, or doing, being a part of that, but just heaven being that ideal place. 195 00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:23,560 And then I think about working, that's, that's a mind shift for a believer. While there is comfort 196 00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:32,920 in one, what I think the conflict comes in, what do I do with the other one? If that's not the case, 197 00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:41,240 then I mean, what should I be doing then while I'm here? It seems like there's more I need to be 198 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:49,960 doing when I look at the view you've described versus the view I had before. So let's talk about 199 00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:59,080 our Wesleyan bread and butter message sanctification. Hi. Um, sanctification is 200 00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:07,480 about becoming perfected as a believer. And you have to tie in the topic of heavenly rewards here. 201 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:12,520 Well, in what way are we going to be rewarded? Well, think about the things you value in this 202 00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:20,040 life. Do you value the people that you get to associate with? Do you like hanging around with 203 00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:27,320 people who have really bad character traits and don't know how to act right and don't take a bath 204 00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:33,480 every day? Do you like associating with people like that? Hmm. Probably not. Permission to speak 205 00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:40,280 freely. Okay. And there are people that we aspire to be in a relationship with because of what they 206 00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:49,000 know or who they know. That person can elevate us by being in a relationship with them. Okay. And 207 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:56,280 so we all want to be in relationships with people that can elevate us. Right. So when we talk about 208 00:23:56,280 --> 00:24:00,760 things like heavenly rewards, all these things come into play. You care about how you dress, right? 209 00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:06,360 You care about what kind of house you live in. Well, the Bible speaks of all of these things 210 00:24:06,360 --> 00:24:13,720 as being rewards for believers associated with what kind of person they become in this life. 211 00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:22,680 So God isn't going to take some, you know, I wasn't raised right, so forgive my vocabulary. 212 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:33,800 God isn't going to take some backward loser, right? And attach them to mother Teresa, right? 213 00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:41,640 Mm hmm. Mother Teresa is going to be placed around other people where she takes great joy and pleasure 214 00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:48,120 as her reward in the people she gets to associate with, right? And the backward loser gets to hang 215 00:24:48,120 --> 00:24:54,760 out with other backward losers. He still gets to be in the kingdom. Okay. But don't go thinking that 216 00:24:55,320 --> 00:25:01,400 it's going to be the same for you as it is for, you know. So this is why we need to develop the 217 00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:09,160 ability to relate to other people in healthy ways because God is going to reward us in various and 218 00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:14,840 manifold ways based upon the type of character traits we developed. Now those can be found in 219 00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:18,360 the Sermon on the Mount. That's why the Sermon on the Mount is such an important, it's called the 220 00:25:18,360 --> 00:25:23,640 gospel of the kingdom. Mm hmm. Because these are going to be the character attributes that God is 221 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:31,720 going to reward for all eternity, you know. Okay. I spent like six months preaching on the gospel of 222 00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:36,680 the kingdom or the Sermon on the Mount. The Sermon on the Mount. Because it's so important. John Wesley, 223 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:41,240 out of his 52 standard sermons, which are considered authoritative for Methodists, 224 00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:50,040 like 12 or 13 are on the Sermon on the Mount. Wow. It's a very important topic because these are 225 00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:57,080 the raw materials upon which God is going to build the kingdom. Those character attributes, 226 00:25:57,080 --> 00:26:03,000 the Beatitudes. Blessed are the poor in spirit. People who have shed their sense of entitlement 227 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:10,120 and embraced humility, right? Mm hmm. Blessed are those who mourn. People who are, I can see my sin 228 00:26:10,120 --> 00:26:17,160 and I feel really bad about it, you know. Blessed are the meek. People who use their strength to 229 00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:25,880 benefit others, not themselves. I mean, primarily benefit others. You all, you know, God always 230 00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:32,120 blesses both sides of the equation. They will inherit the earth. You know. Yes. So, and you know, 231 00:26:32,120 --> 00:26:38,840 think about, no, that really means what it says. You know, and God is going to reward people 232 00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:45,880 and doing those things is tough. It's tough to live like that. Now I can act like, I can act like 233 00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:52,040 that at church on Sunday morning, but to do that all week around people that don't do it back to me, 234 00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:59,480 that's tough. Yeah. Out in the world. Not sitting in the booths, but out in the world. Yeah. You know, 235 00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:09,160 what does that look like? And I know, I came across a little section. Can I, may I read it to you? Oh, 236 00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:17,640 yeah, absolutely. This is Blackabees experiencing God devotional. And I was just reading the 237 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:22,920 devotional, but it reminded me a little bit of this. So I thought I wanted to ask you about this. 238 00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:30,200 It comes from Romans 10, 14 through 15. And it says, it is God's desire that anywhere there is 239 00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:37,160 a Christian, God has a way for people to learn of his salvation. That comes from the Romans. Then he 240 00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:44,600 goes on to say, whenever an unbeliever meets a Christian, the unbeliever ought to be face to face 241 00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:54,520 with everything he needs to know in order to follow Christ. When I think about the sermon and what I 242 00:27:54,520 --> 00:28:02,840 need to be doing here, whether I'm at work, at church, wherever I am, whatever I'm doing, 243 00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:12,120 I should be an example of Christ to others. Absolutely. And that's what made me think of 244 00:28:12,120 --> 00:28:19,080 the work and the skills that you talked about. That it's all the time, everywhere. Absolutely. 245 00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:24,040 And that's like your entire life being an act of worship. Right. Worship isn't just something you 246 00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:31,320 do on Sunday morning. It's like your entire life is worship, you know? Yeah. And it goes back to, 247 00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:37,720 I repeat it all the time, if you do these things and teach others to do the same, you will be called 248 00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:44,680 great. So it's every person's responsibility to preach the message. Yeah. You know, to be able to 249 00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:49,240 share the message with others. And I think that's probably based upon how blessed are the feet of 250 00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:55,560 those who preach the gospel of peace from Romans. I think that's Romans 10 maybe. Let's see. 251 00:28:55,560 --> 00:29:04,920 It is Roman, this is 11 through 14, I think. And it talks about, as the scripture says, 252 00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:09,880 anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame. There's no difference. And then he goes 253 00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:17,080 on to say, everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. Yeah. Well, that's, 254 00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:24,440 you know, that's everybody's responsibility. And when you start to get these concepts, 255 00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:32,280 and they start to sink in, it does cause you to think about how you act, 256 00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:41,160 what you do with your time, what you do with your money, you know? Maybe I should stick out this 257 00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:49,080 tough relationship because I feel like I'm supposed to stay in this relationship, you know? So it does 258 00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:55,400 cause you to really reevaluate, should cause you to reevaluate everything, you know? Right. And 259 00:29:55,400 --> 00:30:02,600 the hard part is getting people out of the Disney World mindset, but then it's also difficult 260 00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:09,400 getting them to actually believe that this is what God has planned for the future. And so, 261 00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:14,520 this is what God has planned for the future because there's accountability that comes with that, 262 00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:25,640 you know? And consequences that come with that. And a lot of people like staying in their 263 00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:35,480 comfortable place. Yeah. Yeah, of course. Yeah. So. And I think if you take it too far and say, 264 00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:43,400 well, I can't be perfect all the time, all day long, everywhere. I get mad or I have anger, 265 00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:53,480 I have jealousy or I have envy or whatever it may be. I'm not going to be a perfect example of Christ 266 00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:59,720 every moment of every day. Yeah. Well, and so, in thinking about those things, we all have those 267 00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:05,880 kinds of negative emotions, which isn't sinful in and of itself. It's learning not to manifest them 268 00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:12,760 in unhealthy ways. Right? You can still, you cannot, it's actually sinful to completely 269 00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:20,600 sublimate those things. You know, it's unhealthy to vomit them on people in an unrestrained way. 270 00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:27,880 You know, it's James who says he who controls his tongue is perfect. Right? And so it's learning 271 00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:33,640 to allow those things to motivate us, but then manifest them in healthy, constructive ways. 272 00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:41,800 That's the goal, you know? And yeah, I mean, nobody ever gets that right and all the time, but 273 00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:49,800 I'm getting better. I'm working at getting better. And I've got another 30 years or so. 274 00:31:49,800 --> 00:32:02,120 Right? Right. To really get it going a lot better than what I do now. Absolutely. Always growing, 275 00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:12,120 always trying to improve, always trying to, yeah. Yeah. Okay. Good. I just heard my camera click in 276 00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:17,960 the background, so I think our 30 minutes is up. Okay, good. Well, I think we're going to have to 277 00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:24,680 stop. Well, is that okay? Yeah, I think it was a great conversation, good place to stop. 278 00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:31,480 And do you want me to give you that? If you're going to insert it's actually, I read the wrong 279 00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:40,120 part. It's Romans 10, 14 and 15, which is how then can they call on the one they have not believed in 280 00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:47,640 and how can they believe in the one on whom they have not heard and how can they hear without 281 00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:56,040 someone preaching to them? And then 15, and how can they preach unless they are sent as it is written, 282 00:32:56,040 --> 00:33:03,160 how beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news. Amen. Yeah. Good words. That's for everybody. 283 00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:10,680 Right. Well, he goes, he talks about Israel and about the reason this caught my eyes because he 284 00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:18,120 talks about the original plan for Israel was to be a beacon for other nations, but they never could 285 00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:28,760 get there because they, they disgraced him. What did he say? They forsook him and practiced every 286 00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:35,400 kind of sin rather than being ambassadors for God. And then he puts that in the middle. And then he 287 00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:43,480 says to us, we got to be careful that we don't do the same thing. He cut off those branches. Don't 288 00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:51,000 think it couldn't happen to you. So sorry, all of you, eternal security people that directly 289 00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:59,000 contradicts your theology. I'm sorry. Yeah. But that's hard for people, I think, to hear, don't you? 290 00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:05,640 Well, yeah, I prefer to think that once I'm saved, I'm good. I punched my ticket and 291 00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:14,200 absolutely gravy train time. Yes. And they're, they're, yes. Yeah. But you've got to, 292 00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:25,080 you've got to, if your whole series is, is building towards that, then I think it's going to take it. 293 00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:31,240 Yeah. I don't think it's going to be one sermon is what I'm saying. Right. I think. Right. But good. 294 00:34:31,240 --> 00:34:39,080 Well, and this is why my wall's covered with pictures of the spot, you know, because Israel, 295 00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:43,960 Israel is just like, you know, Genesis chapter one and two was the plan. 296 00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:51,480 Israel and Jerusalem are the plan. Jesus is going to come back. Jesus is returning to a specific 297 00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:58,760 spot and that's where he's going to take over. So, uh, I can't wait for that day to happen. 298 00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:07,400 Yes. Okay. Well, you think you got something? I do. Okay. All right. I'm not even going to 299 00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:14,200 have to do any editing on that. I don't think. Oh gosh. Well, so, okay. Yeah. Thanks for coming in 300 00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:22,920 and doing this. Okay. And we'll, uh, we'll do it again. Sounds good. Yeah. Yep. All right, sir. 301 00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:38,360 Like I say, that one that we did.