Welcome to Dating Log, the podcast that records the ups and downs of dating in your 30s and
beyond. This is episode 15, Rose the matchmaker. Many people find the world of modern dating
difficult to navigate. You have hundreds of apps with millions of available people, unwritten
rules around profiles and how to communicate, all with the constant risk of facing rejection
and ghosting. Step in the matchmakers. Rose is a matchmaker based in the Netherlands and
specialises in taking the dating process offline. We hear how she got into matchmaking, who
are the types of people that use a matchmaking service and how going back to doing things
in a simple and less digital way can yield great results for singles. A quick plug, season
two of Dating Log is coming very soon with more people, more dates and more stories from
all over the world. Now over to Rose to provide a window into the world of a matchmaker.
Hi, my name is Rose. I'm Rose is offline and this is the name of the business I run,
which is a matchmaking platform, but it's purely focused on offline. And well, because
I think love is not digital. This is my payoff, which I started around three years ago because
I heard many, many people talking when I was working in advertising about their online
experiences. And I thought, well, this is really interesting information. And I thought
I can do something with it. And also because I'm like the generation, I'm 41 right now.
So when the platform, like platforms like Hive started or Facebook, I don't like it,
show a lot of personal stuff online. And like people are portraying, you know, always the
best and themselves and well, it's not a real thing to show if you know what I mean. So
yeah, the happy, happy, happy, good life, which is life is not always happy and good.
So I thought, you know, I dislike this, these platforms and I don't know why and also the
social media and things like that, people getting attached to their phones more and
more often. And the way of communication also changed a lot because of using our phones
and laptops all the time. So I thought I really prefer offline life and even because also
if you want to meet, if you meet somebody, you want to know how they look in your eyes.
You want to hear that, of course, how are they talking, their voice, their non-verbal
language, which is very important to like somebody. So I thought, okay, well, enough
swiping, let's start the offline community. So you were working, let's say in advertising
with the, is that correct? Yes. With a bunch of people who were all dating on the apps
and feeling frustrated and fatigued and tired. And you thought, hey, let's take this offline.
Let's do something different. Yes, exactly. That's how you landed there. Okay. And had
you ever done any sort of, given dating advice or been a matchmaker for your friends? Why
did you decide to pick this up? I decided to pick it up because at one point this colleague
of mine told me he was dating three girls in one day. So I was really shocked. And then
after the third date, he called me, are you still in town? And I was like, no way, I'm
not coming to visit you or anything. This was such a weird behavior. So this is my inspiration
for the offline matchmaking business. And I, well, in the past, I matched one of my friends
and now she's married with three children, which was really nice. But the thing is you
cannot learn it. It's a way of knowing people, talk a lot to a lot of people. I used to work
with many different types of people, like art directors, copywriters, but mainly my
client used to be an account manager. And are you doing matchmaking full time? No, I
do it part time because I still think my, well, if I look at other companies who run
a matchmaking business, they ask like a lot of money for the matchmaking. And my budget
is still quite low because I also like to get people who have, you know, who cannot
spend a lot of money. So I also work right now, which is one of the best things to do
for reading for my friends in a hotel behind a building here in Amsterdam. I'm not very
like a horror cop person, but it changed, you know, because no, I made the decision
to only work with very, very nice people to surround me with beautiful people. So you
have people coming to you. What does this process look like? I mean, they come to you
because they want to be matched. So what kind of people are coming to you and why and what
kind of state are they in when they arrive, let's say in that first conversation with
you? Well, I always meet people in the park. Outside, I live in Amsterdam on West side.
So I always meet them most of the time in the Rembrandt Park, which is super nice because
it's open air, you know, sun is shining or sometimes it's raining. And then we talk
a little bit. We laugh, you immediately see, you know, you meet somebody, you say, okay,
super cool, you're here. And then you start really relaxed conversation, you know, and
I was thinking this is the best way to do it because of the to walk. It's very important
because you don't have immediately physical or no, no face to face interaction. You just
walk forward, you know, I don't, I don't look you in the eyes all the time because that's
a super different situation. I can interview situation, you know, you can see my expression
immediately. Also nature, wind, the smell of the grass. It helps to relax people. And
then we start talking about which I find very, very interesting to talk about the youth.
Where are you born? How are your parents? You have brothers and sisters. So yes, parents
still married. So what, what happened in your life? What, what, you know, it's, it's very,
very important. That's the base. Your childhood is mainly the base of your character and vulnerabilities
that you develop when you grow older and everybody has their insecurities, which is wonderful.
People tell me sometimes the other time this lady, she starts, yeah, she started crying,
you know, at one point. Well, her childhood was really quite heavy and yeah, people share
within quite a, yeah, not, not so much a long time. They share very personal stories and
I find that beautiful because I just, I'm just very, very super relaxed and kind. And
if they want a coffee, we drink a coffee or we get a takeaway. Don't want to sit in a
bar or anything just to relax. But for, for singles, it's quite, quite something because
you have to talk, we talk like one hour and some most of the time also one and a half
hours. Yeah. It depends on, on, on their life story. And also if we have fun, that's the
most important thing. So when you first meet someone, you're just walking and you're getting
to know them as a person, where they come from and who they are. Yet they are coming
to you as a matchmaker. So in this first conversation, do you then immediately dive into what they're
looking for and why they're there? Or is that not part of your first meet and greet with
someone? I don't really ask questions like, what are you looking for? I try really to
get to know the person. So how they act, I don't ask like, what are your hobbies? I ask
like, okay, what, what if you have three days in your agenda are completely off or you don't
have anything to do. What do you love? What do you love to do? What do you really enjoy
doing? For example, you know, so do you, and I talk about culture or things also, maybe
they like to read books or also politics. They do they have pets is also quite interesting.
But we also talk about, do you like cooking a lot? Are you, do you, do you drink, do you
smoke? Do you use drugs? Also quite, quite interesting on how somebody's lifestyle is.
And then I really, I'm just feeling to get the character of somebody. Some people are
quite introverted and sometimes I ask them, do you think you're, do you feel you're a
bit introverted or do you prefer the other? Do you like more extrovert person? But it's
just a feeling of, of, of, of knowing people. That's what I, I, I, yeah, you cannot do it
the other way. We had one of our guests, he said something similar that, you know, the
first time you're meeting someone, he feels it's more about feeling out the situation
than having a conversation that you could just do something together to get a feel of
how the other person is. And that sounds like what you're also doing on a first meet with
someone. Yeah, well, just the feeling of how somebody acts, you know, you know, that by
the instant some people are really, really super talkative and laughing and humor and,
you know, and, and yeah, which is, which is nice, but other people are, yeah, just a little
bit more vulnerable, you know, and then, and then you have to really relax them and then,
and then you really get to know them. And also they talk a lot about their, their vulnerabilities.
It's really important and it's no shame to, you know, I always say like they're, they're
normal piss people don't exist. Yeah, I completely agree with that. And that's what makes dating
and probably matchmaking also kind of fun. So after your first conversation with someone,
what happens next? I taped our conversation when we were, when we are walking. So then
I will get home and I write it down and then just very offline. I also make a take a photo.
Does he take or make a picture? Yeah, take a photo. Take a photo. I was mistaken. I take
a photo with my Polaroids and then I will, there's in here where I live, I have a little
office space or the photo will be on the board. I'm the very physical, visual person. So I
just have everybody on a big board and I write down all our conversations and what I felt
with the person, which is very important. And then after that, I tell people all the
time, it's quite a long-term process. I'm not going to match like instantly because
I really want to create, you know, I really have to feel the match also for myself. I
think it's very important. So then I also say I match within my own offline database.
So I, of course I meet everybody, which takes a lot of time, but I think it's just very
important for the quality. I, I, I, yeah, I meet everybody. So then I, after that, I
will create a blind, if I see a match, I create a blind date. I organize the blind date. So
there will be no contact details exchanged or because otherwise you will start Googling,
of course, the photos will be exchanged. Then I'm within the messaging surface, you know,
within the app service. I just tell them, okay, please, okay, I'm going to match this
person. I tell a little bit about them. And then after that, I will say, okay, please
write the person what you like to do, a date, when and where. And I forward the message.
So I constantly do, I do, I'm in between communication and then they start to, yeah, they meet each
other. And of course, after the match, I talk to them. So like, how did you like it? You
know, what happened? So I also take care after I created the match, so we still be, you know,
I'm the contact person. And sometimes they switch phone numbers and then they just, I
leave them to it. It's it's very, very simple. It's it sounds so simple, but you are taking
a lot of time upfront to get to know people and to really wait for a good match to come
up for them. How long is the average wait with with between finding a match for someone?
Well, the thing is, because I mainly work in Amsterdam, and nowadays, like also Rotterdam
joint. So this, there's a lady walking for me in Rotterdam. If there are singles over
there. Yeah, which it's really cool. But the thing is, because it's Randstad, how do you
say? Yeah, the greater metropolitan area, let's say. Yeah, the greater metropolitan.
It's also like New York, I think, because the difference, like how many there are lots
of single women within creative big cities or within the Randstad area. So I got like
a percentage of, let's say, 60% women and 40% men. So also, so I also tell the ladies
and especially within the age range of 50 and 40, there are a lot a lot of ladies. So
then it's it's a bit more difficult for me to find the right, right, you know, to find
the guys. Oh, if you listen to this, please come and join the offline community. So yeah,
it depends on who the person is also, you know, if I start, sometimes, yeah, it's a
bit more difficult, you know, and I try to be I'm very honest to the person. And I tell
them myself, this story, like, okay, please take in mind that there are less men in my
in my database. So it's going to take a long, long, longer time for you. And are you only
working with are mainly working with heterosexual people then?
Mainly, yes, yes, but also some gay people. And what I heard you mentioned 40s and 50s,
but what is let's say the average age of someone who's coming to you?
Average 30 to 40 years old and 50. Interesting.
I think the youngest, the youngest I can tell you is so sweet. He's 19 years old. What 19
and already going for a matchmaker? Yes.
That seems so mature.
Because they they have really bad online experience. You know, a lot of trolls or people tell me
the most most most outrageous things like, oh, my God, this this was fake. And then they
want to meet up and then somebody cancels appointments. Well, that's interesting. Well,
19 and the oldest one is 82. Wow.
I tried to try really to find a lovely mate. You know, just a friend. He's not really looking
for love. But probably she wants a relationship. But yeah, friends relationship. You know,
what does success look like for you and for your clients?
Yeah, of course, if they if they're really happy together and if they tell me, Rose,
you really did a good match. But at one point that they both told me that and then they
met twice or three times. I don't know exactly. But then at the end, the lady she she didn't
want anymore or she well she left. She left him, which was a super pity. So then, well,
if it's success or not, I'm just really happy to hear back from people that they really
enjoyed their meeting or their date. You know, that's success for me. And I'm not I'm not
really thinking about success and results and things like that.
Once you've matched people and they're going on their first blind date, is there any sort
of advice or coaching that you give them? Or are you purely matching them based on your
feeling?
Yes, I do that purely on my feeling. I was thinking about somebody asked me for real
to give like dating advice or or direction coaching. And I thought, OK, I'm not going
to do that. Because I also why not? Because I think coaching, you have to take it seriously.
It's also a process. You have to really maybe not study for it. But you read it. So it's
also it's also a profession. It's a profession, of course, I think. You really if you if you
yeah, the way how you talk to people, the techniques, how to talk properly. It's it's
very important what you because if some people are if you are very vulnerable, you can say
a lot of things, but you have to really be careful about what and how you say it. That's
how that's what I believe. So I was thinking, OK, well, no, if you really want to coach
your thousands coaches nowadays for everything. Yes, I thought, OK, this is also it's it's
an it's you know, matchmaking is one thing and coaching is nice. Another thing I decided
I was thinking about it, but I decided because of that reason, I did want to ask, have you
had any absolute matchmaking disasters where you match two people and they both were like,
oh, my God, no, get me out of here. Well, there was one one day I create one match I
create. And then she called me back. She was like, the guy was drinking like half a liter
of beer because before I walked in, he already drank probably, I don't know how much beer.
And then she was like, yeah, but Rosie was also a bit shorter than me. And I was like,
oh, yeah, well, I write it always down. I record, you know, at the end, we talk about
the physical part of what you like physically in the partner. Then I also say, OK, you're
around one eighty. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But anyway, she was like, but I cannot. It's really hard
for me to to to. Of course, I cannot. I don't know how somebody really behaves on a first
date. If he drinks a lot. Yeah, I cannot. Well, I did not know. Oh, yeah. Well, that
was for her. Like, OK, this is really bad. This I don't know that this these things can
happen, of course. Yeah, yeah. You're not always when you meet people, you're going
for a walk in the park. You're not sitting down and drinks or dinner or. No, no, no.
But he of course, he told me like, OK, I like to drink. I like to drink. OK. I like he was
also a smoker, but she also smoked. I thought, OK, this would both were born in Amsterdam,
which also makes a nice connection sometimes, you know, about really Burkondig really. Yeah,
I really like them together. That was my point of view. But if somebody behaves and it's
because of their probably he was bit afraid or vulnerable, you know, a date is like a
date. It's like, oh, first impression. How do you say? Like he was a bit maybe a bit
stressed. That's why he started drinking so well. And then, well, I talked to her a long
time about it. Yeah, things like that can happen. But OK, we will. We'll look. Yeah,
we'll search somebody else for her very lovely person. But on all the assets, all the assets,
they both lie. And the type of person I thought, OK, that will can be a nice match. Yeah, we
had a lot of guests allude to the fact that dating can give them anxiety and that going
for a drink for a lot of people is an OK first date because it helps to relax them. What
kind of first dates do you set people up in? Because when you meet someone for the matchmaking
purpose, you're going for a walk in the park because you say it's more about feeling. But
when you're setting people up on a blind date, what sort of activities are they doing? Is
it more based on feeling or is it actually sitting across from each other eye to eye
having a conversation? No, I purely let them decide themselves what they themselves what
they like to do. If they want my advice for some nice restaurant or I don't know, bar
or theater in Amsterdam, I can advise them. But mainly everybody, you know, thinks about,
OK, I like to be here. But also I would suggest so I also talked to this guy who was drinking
a lot of beer. I talked to him. I said, OK, next time you should really I talk it very
I try to say it's very, you know, also in a positive way of giving feedback to somebody.
But I told him maybe next time if you feel anxiety or whatever, it's better to just walk
with somebody. You don't sit across somebody's face, you know, across a table. It's quite
some, you know, like a job interview. I hate it when people, three people sit in front
of me, man. It's so, you know, I used to have those experiences. And then they're going
to ask you, what do you want to do for the rest of your life? Where do you want to be
in five years? Questions like that, you should avoid like this type of interview settings
when when you feel a bit, you know, when you feel a bit stressed. Also, the pianist, the
pianist, the guitar player, he also he also told me he was shaking on his legs. He is
50 years old. Yeah. Before he got to meet, you know, with his first match, it was like
a rose. I was so nervous. Now I'm actually but he was meeting her up in a bar. So now
actually, I also would recommend him for the second date, just go have a walk with the
lady, you know, because I know for sure she will she she will also be she will. Yeah,
she finds it also difficult. Yeah, she's very yeah, I felt with her. Yeah, quite insecure.
But also because she hasn't been there, she's alone for like a long time already, probably
like eight years. When you go on a first date again, you when you go on your first date,
you're like, you're never going you never know what to expect. And it's for a purpose,
you know, I was gonna say, I think I've talked to some of my guests to, you know, think of
dating as a kind of a sport. It's something you need to practice to get better at. And
it's going to be different with everyone. It's you know, you asked we're doing sports
analogies. Every time you play in a different field, you have a different surrounding, you
have a different opponent, let's say, there's different weather, there's different circumstances.
So you really need to figure out how you can be the most, like flexible and adaptable to
any sort of situation. And is it like a sport? You mean like the quantity of dates they have
nowadays? Just going on different dates. Yeah, I guess. Yeah, doing more like more dates
with more different people. I mean, there's so many choices available as well, I think,
which is, yeah, something else that Yeah, this is a very interesting topic. Because
the dating scene seriously changed over the years. Because, for example, my parents, when
you live, you know, like if you live in a village, you you if you used to grow up in
a small village, no internet, you know, you have free potential partner, you can choose
from nowadays, just open out, I don't know how many dating apps there are. You have like
6000 people to choose from. So people are like constantly swiping. Maybe this person,
oh, I go on a date with this person. But maybe I go next week on a date with that person
and you know, the quantity is like, so people don't have really a lot of time nowadays.
This is my feeling to get really know the other person. They don't take so much time
as you used to because if you meet somebody at the first time, it's like first interaction.
And then most of the time you need to like half a year, not even maybe longer, one year
to get to really know somebody. And then the love will start growing, you know, somebody
to fancy somebody. Person will be more and more interesting over the months. That's how
I feel you really start to love somebody. You should. Yeah, I think like nowadays people
don't take time anymore. It's shocking, shocking for me to see the way of communication. People
are walking with their phones constantly behind the screen. They don't look at you anymore.
They don't talk to you anymore because there are headphones on and they're cycling in the
city. I want to get your take. What do you notice as far as other trends in the dating
industry? Well, what I hear back from singles is that there's also a lot of that energy
online like the way people treat each other. For example, ghosting. Like you have a conversation
and somebody is at one point somebody's interested in you because you know they like to talk
or they like to I don't know what. You don't know who you're talking to at that moment
actually. And then if they're not interested or they have something else to do, they switch
over and they just completely dumped the other person. Just there are ghosts. Suddenly they're
gone because their interest is gone and they found somebody else online. I don't know what
these things. Yeah, that's a big one. That's also something I think almost all of our guests
mentioned. I didn't always make the episode, but everyone has dealt with it. It's a very
bad way of treating one to the other because it's painful for a lot of people. Do you
have any advice or words of wisdom that you'd like to leave? Yeah, leave our listeners
with in terms of dating and matchmaking. What's the advice you give your friends when they
ask? Well, just enjoy life. And also within the dating or meeting, go to the theater,
enjoy what you love to do. Go for a walk, do the gym if you like to do a lot of sports.
Just really enjoy your life. Do it. Yeah, I think offline is best. And I believe in the
offline movement because people are fed up with talking to Jets GPT things. It's getting
worse and worse. And also these huge companies, they really get a lot of advantage of your
personal data. Also the dating apps, be careful what you put online. Don't put your life online.
I shoot you. Dating Log is recorded and hosted by Wyndham Juno. It's produced by me, Harry
Dark and our artwork is in collaboration with Esme Hemming Studio. Big thank you to today's
guest Rosemary Kaiser. You can find out more about her service at rose is offline dot nl.
That's r o o s is offline dot nl. You can follow us on Instagram at dating log podcast.
You can email us at dating log podcast at gmail.com. Any feedback, recommendations,
people who you think might want to be on the show, hit us up. Please like, subscribe, review
wherever you listen. We'll be back with season two kicking off next month. In the meantime,
please don't ghost us.