1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:16,680 Welcome to Dating Log, the podcast that records the ups and downs of dating in your 30s and 2 00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:17,680 beyond. 3 00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:22,560 We've decided it's time to get some advice from the experts, someone who knows the dating 4 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:27,660 world inside out and whose job it is to help others navigate it too. 5 00:00:27,660 --> 00:00:32,120 This is episode 14, Dario the Dating Coach. 6 00:00:32,120 --> 00:00:37,960 Dario van der Kraken is a dating coach based in London and works mostly online with clients 7 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:39,840 from all over the world. 8 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:43,000 This conversation is jam-packed with professional advice. 9 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:46,720 For Dario, the journey of coaching starts from within. 10 00:00:46,720 --> 00:00:51,760 He covers the theme of love addiction, yep that's a thing, and he shares his perspectives 11 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:56,760 on finding quote, the true love that everybody is searching for. 12 00:00:56,760 --> 00:01:01,960 Handing over to our regular host Wyndham for this insightful conversation and a quick reminder, 13 00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:06,440 stay tuned for Dating Log's second season coming soon. 14 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:12,880 My name is Dario and I'm a dating and relationship coach and I specifically work with gay guys 15 00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:18,680 that are having trouble finding, you know, their footing in dating, finding, you know, 16 00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:25,800 their good, balanced, healthy love life, which is so common these days, I find. 17 00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:30,680 And I started actually, you know, as a coach because I had the world of troubles in my 18 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:34,120 twenties, in my dating life. 19 00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:35,560 It was just horrible. 20 00:01:35,560 --> 00:01:39,080 I had like the worst time ever. 21 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:44,680 And it wasn't actually until I was, I think it was, I was in my thirties when I started 22 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:52,640 to finally feel like I knew who I was, I knew what I wanted and my life really changed. 23 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:57,080 And most of the change actually is down to years and years of therapy. 24 00:01:57,080 --> 00:02:02,880 I went into therapy when I was in my twenties because at some point after like the yet another 25 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:07,760 rejection I felt, okay, this is, this is not normal. 26 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:09,440 There's something is happening. 27 00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:11,640 I'm not approaching things in the right way. 28 00:02:11,640 --> 00:02:13,480 So I need some help. 29 00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:19,920 And I, I'm really proud of my 20 something year old self for, for doing that, for asking 30 00:02:19,920 --> 00:02:24,160 for help because going to therapy was the best investment that I've ever done in my 31 00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:25,160 life. 32 00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:32,000 And I'm reaping the benefits now, like even like 10 years later, because, because I feel 33 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:33,500 happy every day. 34 00:02:33,500 --> 00:02:38,880 I'm not saying like, you know, all day, every day, but I do have happy most of the days. 35 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:44,480 So if people want to take something from today's episode, just ask for help. 36 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:49,000 If you feel like you can't do it, if you try to do things on your own and you can't just 37 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:52,760 ask for help because there are people out there that can help you. 38 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:54,960 People that have gone through the same things that you are going through. 39 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:59,880 So at least it doesn't make you feel alone and your life can really change. 40 00:02:59,880 --> 00:03:03,200 Can you let our listeners know which market are you operating in? 41 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:04,640 Where are your clients based? 42 00:03:04,640 --> 00:03:09,920 So my clients I pay are based all over the world because I only work online. 43 00:03:09,920 --> 00:03:15,280 And yeah, so right now I'm working with a client in Indonesia, for example, I've worked 44 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:20,160 with clients in, well, all over Europe, in the States, New Zealand. 45 00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:22,820 The only limit is the time zone difference really. 46 00:03:22,820 --> 00:03:26,760 And so dating coach in and of itself is a pretty niche job. 47 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:30,440 So what made you want to become a dating coach? 48 00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:34,400 I mean, you did your own therapy and I'm, I can maybe assume you were doing something 49 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:35,720 else with your life. 50 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:42,200 So coaching is because as I said, I'm, I went to therapy and my life changed. 51 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:43,920 So I've always had it in me. 52 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:50,120 I've always thought that I wanted to help other people the same way that I was helped, 53 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:55,400 but I was never going to go back to university and do the specialization schools and study 54 00:03:55,400 --> 00:04:01,000 for another 10 years to become a counselor or a psychologist or a therapist. 55 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:04,360 And then it was actually during the beginning of the pandemic. 56 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:11,360 I don't know how I just got like this light bulb moment and I said, well, okay, I might 57 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:17,760 never be a therapist or a psychologist, but I can become a coach and I can help people 58 00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:20,360 in, in this way. 59 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:26,920 Might not be as full-fledged as a psychologist services, but I can still do my part and I 60 00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:29,200 can draw my experiences. 61 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:30,800 And so that's what I did. 62 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:34,640 I did a course in transformation or coaching. 63 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:36,820 I passed my course and qualified. 64 00:04:36,820 --> 00:04:41,720 I did a lot of hours of practice and then I started out. 65 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:42,720 Yeah. 66 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:44,600 So it's been, it's been a few years now. 67 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:45,600 Cool. 68 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:50,440 When you're working with someone, someone, let's say they reach out to you on the forum 69 00:04:50,440 --> 00:04:55,120 via your website, what does the process kind of look like? 70 00:04:55,120 --> 00:05:00,800 So you can either book a session right away with me, or you can get in touch and we can 71 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:02,520 have an exploratory call. 72 00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:05,880 So some people really need the help right away. 73 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:11,760 So I find that letting them book a session right away is probably, is the first thing 74 00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:14,960 is, is the thing that probably they need the most. 75 00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:21,600 But if you are thinking about, if you're not sure that you want to start a coaching journey, 76 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:24,320 then you're very welcome to just get in touch with me. 77 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:30,120 We'll have an exploratory call and we basically talk about why you are thinking about getting 78 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:31,120 into coaching. 79 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:37,520 And I tell you, you know, if we are, if I can help you, there are things that, you know, 80 00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:42,320 as a coach and as a counselor, I'm not qualified to help with like traumatic events. 81 00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:45,120 It is something that coaches cannot really deal with. 82 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:49,360 So I might refer you to some psychologist friends. 83 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:54,640 But mostly I think the exploratory calls, and I speak from experience as well, are to 84 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:56,640 find out whether we are a good fit. 85 00:05:56,640 --> 00:05:59,840 So maybe you don't like me, maybe you don't like the way I am. 86 00:05:59,840 --> 00:06:01,400 Maybe you don't understand my access. 87 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:03,080 Maybe I don't understand yours. 88 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:07,400 Maybe there is no chemistry there and that is absolutely fine. 89 00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:11,540 So that's what these introductory calls are for. 90 00:06:11,540 --> 00:06:16,880 And then if we decided to move ahead, then we normally set a number of sessions, a number 91 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:19,240 of weeks that we work together. 92 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:26,560 And in our first session, we start, we establish what the goal, the main goal for us is, well, 93 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:28,160 for the client mostly. 94 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:34,120 So that we always have that as like the northern star and we don't, you know, go off tangents 95 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:37,480 if it's not useful to reaching that goal. 96 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:38,620 And then we start. 97 00:06:38,620 --> 00:06:41,040 What kind of people are coming to you? 98 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:44,600 What state are they in when they arrive in your inbox? 99 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:50,880 Most of the times I find they are in a very hectic times in their lives, in a very chaotic 100 00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:51,880 times. 101 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:56,720 And if there is an adjective that describes most of the people that come to into my inbox 102 00:06:56,720 --> 00:06:58,800 is, I would say lost. 103 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:00,600 They feel a little lost. 104 00:07:00,600 --> 00:07:02,680 They've tried different ways. 105 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:07,720 They have different challenges they have not been able to overcome. 106 00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:13,800 And so they are borderline on hopeless, lost borderline on hopeless. 107 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:18,880 And so what they need for me is kind of like a plan. 108 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:25,160 So bringing some structure into, into what they are dealing with and how they can overcome 109 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:26,160 it. 110 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:27,920 And clarity as well. 111 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:33,560 One thing that I really benefited from my years in therapy and coaching now as well, 112 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:39,720 because I still have a coach and I do coaching and I think everybody should do, but I'm biased, 113 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:41,240 is like clarity. 114 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:46,360 When you know, my, my coach, my mentor, my therapist was able to actually say, okay, 115 00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:51,800 so you're experiencing ABCD and this is because of X. 116 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:56,760 So even just give it a name, a label is something that helps so much. 117 00:07:56,760 --> 00:07:58,720 He said like the word chaos. 118 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:03,120 People are coming in this kind of feeling a bit lost, like dating clearly hasn't worked 119 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:04,120 for them. 120 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:07,760 So they've reached out to find a dating coach. 121 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:14,960 Do you notice common themes or mistakes, let's say in your eyes that people tend to struggle 122 00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:15,960 the most with? 123 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:16,960 Um, yes. 124 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:18,960 How much time do we have? 125 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:19,960 Okay. 126 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:26,840 So the first one, and it's something that is by no means just specific to, to, to gay 127 00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:31,560 guys, but it's probably, it's like such a common thing by finding with it, like talking 128 00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:37,240 to friends or talking to acquaintances is that we want to find love so badly that we 129 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:43,240 are willing to compromise on, on who we are, even like the core of our own selves. 130 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:44,600 That never works. 131 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:48,680 That will never work because then what, what kind of love are we like? 132 00:08:48,680 --> 00:08:51,280 We can't really find love if we, we don't love ourselves. 133 00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:52,760 I mean, RuPaul is right. 134 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:56,000 If you don't love yourself, how in the hell are you going to love somebody else? 135 00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:57,420 That's, that's actually correct. 136 00:08:57,420 --> 00:09:02,920 So if you are prepared to chase after people that they don't really give a crap about you 137 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:07,080 or they're asking you to change or that you have to change in order to please, that will 138 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:09,640 never be a healthy, happy form of love. 139 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:10,640 Yes. 140 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:15,100 You might be able to establish a relationship with someone and that maybe will be helpful 141 00:09:15,100 --> 00:09:19,960 for a while in order for you not to feel lonely, but then this is never going to last. 142 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:22,880 And even if it lasts, it's not going to be a happy one. 143 00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:26,520 So there's something inherently wrong with the way that it was formed. 144 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:32,440 So I would say this compromising on, on who they are, on their values in order to find 145 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:36,760 love because they believe that that is like the second most common thing. 146 00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:43,960 This is love that will magically change their lives in one second and everything will then 147 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:50,360 turn into, you know, uh, flowers and rainbows and stars and sprinkles. 148 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:51,560 That is not what love is. 149 00:09:51,560 --> 00:09:57,440 It is like such a common misconception that is fostered by, you know, the society and 150 00:09:57,440 --> 00:09:59,480 the culture as a whole. 151 00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:03,440 Love is actually something that is so ordinary. 152 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:08,720 And I say that because love, the real love, the happy one, the healthy one doesn't really 153 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:10,120 change who you are. 154 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:12,120 It doesn't really change your life. 155 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:18,080 It's complimented in a wonderful, extraordinary way, but it's nothing out of the ordinary. 156 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:24,160 So when I was able to find love, it was such like an effortless, natural experience. 157 00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:30,880 It was an extension of my life and myself that, you know, sometimes I, you know, when 158 00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:36,200 I took a step back and just analyzed the whole thing, I remember like thinking, this is so 159 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:37,200 normal. 160 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:39,040 This feels so normal to me. 161 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:45,120 And that was something that I never expected because I was just like many of us, like one 162 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:49,720 that thought that, you know, once I am able to find love, that my life is going to change 163 00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:54,640 and everything will just, you know, feel better and taste better. 164 00:10:54,640 --> 00:11:00,240 And it would be like a completely different world just because I had this love. 165 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:02,680 But actually, no, it felt the opposite. 166 00:11:02,680 --> 00:11:04,080 It felt like normal. 167 00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:06,000 It felt like, like meant to be. 168 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:12,800 It felt like a part of myself, but because I was able to do a shit lot of work on myself 169 00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:19,320 and be able to approach dating and love life in a way that was really in line with my values 170 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:23,840 and my core beliefs and basically being a hundred percent myself. 171 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:29,600 This is something that has also come up in the podcast with different guests, this idea 172 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:33,320 of finding love and finding a relationship. 173 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:37,400 They're not always synonymous with each other, the way people talk about them. 174 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:40,360 Sometimes people say, I'm looking for a relationship. 175 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:42,960 Sometimes people say, I'm looking for a life partner. 176 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:45,400 Sometimes people say, I'm looking for love. 177 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:47,440 Are these things mutually exclusive? 178 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:48,880 Do they go together? 179 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:51,180 How does it work with you and your coaching? 180 00:11:51,180 --> 00:11:52,360 What do you say to people? 181 00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:56,800 Normally what I say to people is asking, I ask a lot of questions. 182 00:11:56,800 --> 00:12:01,460 So this is another misconception about the role of the coach. 183 00:12:01,460 --> 00:12:04,720 People think that a dating coach is like a sports coach. 184 00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:07,760 So I'm going to tell you what to do and I'm going to tell you where to go and I'm going 185 00:12:07,760 --> 00:12:09,120 to tell you what to say. 186 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:14,560 But actually, no, like coaching, especially transformational coaching is much more about 187 00:12:14,560 --> 00:12:19,680 asking the right questions so that my client will find the answers because I might have 188 00:12:19,680 --> 00:12:21,800 my own answers, but they are my own. 189 00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:22,960 They work for me. 190 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:27,600 They might not necessarily work for you, especially when it comes to the realm of emotions and 191 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:31,800 feelings, it's all very individual. 192 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:35,360 It's all down to who we are as a person. 193 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:41,000 So I wouldn't say the finding of a relationship, finding love are mutually exclusive, not 194 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:42,000 equal. 195 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:46,720 I would hope not, but I would definitely ask, okay, so what is the difference? 196 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:49,760 What do you think is the difference between finding a relationship and finding love? 197 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:51,640 And then see what they say and go from there. 198 00:12:51,640 --> 00:12:53,800 And what's important to them as well? 199 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:54,800 You mentioned values. 200 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:56,880 Yeah, values are so important. 201 00:12:56,880 --> 00:13:05,440 So I think over my years of dating and then coaching, but always kind of dating because 202 00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:09,560 I've been in a relationship for five years now, but before I was basically single for 203 00:13:09,560 --> 00:13:16,600 most of my life, but I was able to come up with a few, I'll say like guidelines for dating. 204 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:19,520 And those are guidelines that I use with my clients as well. 205 00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:22,940 And the first one is always know who you are. 206 00:13:22,940 --> 00:13:30,020 If you know who you are, you are in a much better position to understand, to approach 207 00:13:30,020 --> 00:13:35,800 dating and approach other people from a very centered, a very grounded position. 208 00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:39,120 If you don't know who you are, it's like being a ship in a storm. 209 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:45,640 So you get taken here and there by whatever winds or whatever storms blows. 210 00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:50,100 But when you know who you are, then you are an island in the middle of the storm. 211 00:13:50,100 --> 00:13:55,160 So even if there is like storm all around you, then at least you know who you are and 212 00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:56,840 you can better navigate that. 213 00:13:56,840 --> 00:13:59,240 Is everyone coachable in your opinion? 214 00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:03,520 The beautiful thing about coaching or therapy is that it's not mandatory. 215 00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:08,040 So you have to want to be there in order to do it. 216 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:14,440 And for most of my life with friends that have gone into therapy or head coaching, we've 217 00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:20,080 always said, oh, therapy should be made mandatory for everyone because it's such a good investment. 218 00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:27,380 And once you have the tools to analyze what is happening to you, you're actually able 219 00:14:27,380 --> 00:14:31,280 to see what is happening for other people, but they are unaware of what is happening 220 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:33,440 because they haven't been through the process. 221 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:37,440 They don't have the tools to manage what is happening to them. 222 00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:39,320 And it's just a pity. 223 00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:45,860 So one thing I remember of my first years in therapy is that you kind of want to basically 224 00:14:45,860 --> 00:14:52,520 do therapy to everyone because you know that they don't know better and you just want to 225 00:14:52,520 --> 00:15:01,040 help them because on the other side it's much better and it's just like another world. 226 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:03,560 So we always said, oh, you know, therapy should be made mandatory. 227 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:08,760 But to be honest with you, it shouldn't because if it is something that is forced on you, 228 00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:10,440 then it doesn't really work. 229 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:11,720 You know, what works? 230 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:19,200 And this is something I find very, very liberating is that I read studies that say that the best 231 00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:25,040 clients, the clients that get the most out of coaching or therapy are not the ones that 232 00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:31,000 are burning with the desire to fix themselves, but with the desire to learn about themselves 233 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:34,280 and about how their brain works and their mind works. 234 00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:39,960 And I find that to be so true because once you know, you know, what triggers you and 235 00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:44,160 why, then you don't need to be to want to fix yourself. 236 00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:46,080 It's something that automatically happens. 237 00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:52,240 So if you approach therapy or coaching with curiosity, like why am I reacting this way? 238 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:58,960 Why, you know, X, Y, Z saying, you know, these things is making me feel like so on edge. 239 00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:04,480 And once you know the reason why, it's not like you actually fix yourself or, you know, 240 00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:09,640 that trigger doesn't work for you anymore, but you put a frame, you put some context 241 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:10,920 around it. 242 00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:17,120 That is what, what basically frees you, what liberates you because the next time that the 243 00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:22,520 trigger is happening, you'll be able to recognize and say, okay, so this is happening because 244 00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:23,520 of that. 245 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:26,800 And then, you know, a couple of times after the triggers happen again, you'll be able 246 00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:30,840 to say, okay, well, yeah, I can feel it like happening. 247 00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:35,360 I can feel that I'm being triggered, but no, actually I'm not interested in reacting to 248 00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:36,360 it anymore. 249 00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:40,240 And that's how you change, but without really wanting to fix yourself, because I don't believe 250 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:42,120 we need to be fixed. 251 00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:47,680 We just need to understand who we are, what we want and our past history and how it still 252 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:51,220 affects us in ways that we're not aware of. 253 00:16:51,220 --> 00:16:55,920 When I go to your website and I look at it, there is a pop-up that comes up and also towards 254 00:16:55,920 --> 00:17:01,120 the bottom, I see a big break the cycle of toxic relationships. 255 00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:04,840 Is this a theme in dating? 256 00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:11,320 And can you tell me more about how are you encouraging or helping people to stop these 257 00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:13,080 cycles to recognize these triggers? 258 00:17:13,080 --> 00:17:14,080 How does that work? 259 00:17:14,080 --> 00:17:15,080 I'm not going to lie. 260 00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:21,080 It's not something that is going to be sold in like a nanosecond like most marketers and 261 00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:22,080 more. 262 00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:28,240 Most people out there actually say, oh, you know, fix this in one second and then you'd 263 00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:29,240 be free. 264 00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:33,400 It's a long process, but it starts with being aware that, first of all, being aware that 265 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:39,200 something is not working, something is not making you happy in your life at the moment. 266 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:43,680 And I think it's very important to admit that. 267 00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:48,280 That is a massive first step when you admit that something is not working and that you 268 00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:53,000 might need to do something about it, whether it is to research some more, ask for help, 269 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:56,040 but admitting that something is not working is the first step. 270 00:17:56,040 --> 00:18:01,760 And then what follows is kind of a long process, but I believe that it's a beautiful journey 271 00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:06,360 when you decide, you know, that even when you admit that something is not working and 272 00:18:06,360 --> 00:18:12,160 that might make you feel like a failure or like you've done something wrong or that your 273 00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:17,240 life is absolutely a disaster, it's actually not that. 274 00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:18,720 It's a sign of absolute strength. 275 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:23,840 And once you start thinking about your life and taking care of what it is that is not 276 00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:30,640 working, I think it's such a beautiful, loving gesture that you can make to yourself. 277 00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:34,080 Just because there is something that is not working just because you're not happy, it 278 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:35,560 doesn't mean that your life is a failure. 279 00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:38,320 It just means that you need to pay more attention to it. 280 00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:44,120 My field of my niche of expertise is actually love addiction because I suffered from it 281 00:18:44,120 --> 00:18:46,840 for as long as I can remember. 282 00:18:46,840 --> 00:18:54,440 And I still suffer from it despite, you know, having been kind of diagnosed and knowing 283 00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:55,440 the ways that it works. 284 00:18:55,440 --> 00:19:00,400 I still feel every now and then in my relationship that there are those dynamics that still come 285 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:07,160 into play, but I'm able to recognize them and I'm able to manage them and do something 286 00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:09,880 about them so that they don't take over my life. 287 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:10,880 What is love addiction? 288 00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:17,440 Basically, love addiction is when you are paying so much attention to your partners 289 00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:24,480 or your dates, you know, thoughts, the feeling and everything, and to the point that you 290 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:26,120 are basically erasing yourself. 291 00:19:26,120 --> 00:19:31,600 I can tell you like more definition, like a proper scientific definition of love addiction, 292 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:37,120 but I find that if I explain this with these words, more people will recognize themselves 293 00:19:37,120 --> 00:19:39,800 in it or at least in parts of it. 294 00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:43,640 It's like when you are thinking, instead of thinking, you know, what do I want to have 295 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:44,640 for dinner? 296 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:49,320 Automatically, your brain goes, what is, you know, my partners want to, will want to have 297 00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:53,640 for dinner or my date, how can I make my date happy? 298 00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:59,480 So instead of thinking about what makes you happy and what makes you, you know, fulfilled, 299 00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:02,000 you are always thinking about somebody else's. 300 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:06,440 It can be your partner, it can be, you know, some authority figures in your life, but the 301 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:12,520 core of it is that basically 100% of your mind and brain activity is devoted to the 302 00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:15,520 other and there is 0% devoted to you. 303 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:20,840 One of the things that people can do in order to step out of this, at least for just like 304 00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:26,080 a couple of seconds every day, which will still be an achievement, is to start asking 305 00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:28,160 themselves, okay, but what do I want? 306 00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:31,740 You're not going to have an answer for it right away because you're not used to thinking 307 00:20:31,740 --> 00:20:33,000 about yourself. 308 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:40,780 So there is a whole journey of discovery there, but I think is one very teeny tiny action 309 00:20:40,780 --> 00:20:49,680 that you can take on a daily basis that, you know, if you do it, you know, every day in, 310 00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:54,960 you know, six months a year is going to have a much bigger effect and you're going to start 311 00:20:54,960 --> 00:21:02,280 to, you know, at least not be fully dependent on the other, but you start, you will start 312 00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:05,560 seeing that you are part of the equation too. 313 00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:13,240 I'm hearing a lot about like self-work and reflecting on your own patterns and behaviors 314 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:16,880 and I guess less about more the practicalities of dating. 315 00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:22,640 So how do you measure the success of your clients? 316 00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:28,880 Is it actually going on dates or getting relationships or is it the growth that's coming from these 317 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:29,880 sessions? 318 00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:31,480 What does success look like for you? 319 00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:33,760 Well, for me, it's all of it. 320 00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:39,200 All of the above, everything that you mentioned, I think for me is seeing them approach their 321 00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:46,720 daily life with less anxiety and more fun, more freedom, being them more secure in themselves 322 00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:48,560 going out on dates. 323 00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:54,080 Depending on how the date goes, it's not something that it's in your power, in their power anyway 324 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:58,680 to, you know, whether the date is a success or not a success. 325 00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:03,720 So I think for me it's more like the overall approach, but you know, when you start doing 326 00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:10,840 coaching, you go on to coaching for, you know, one thing, one very, very well-defined goal, 327 00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:15,080 but to be honest with you, then the ripple effect when you start like moving things in 328 00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:20,280 your mind is not just in dating, but it's in on your whole life. 329 00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:24,760 So it can be like work, relationship with colleagues, relationship with parents, it's 330 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:28,720 sort of something that shifts in family dynamics as well. 331 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:32,400 So everything is part of what I consider to be a success. 332 00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:38,720 But yeah, there was like this client of mine, for example, that had this goal of actually 333 00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:39,720 crying. 334 00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:40,720 She wasn't able to cry. 335 00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:45,880 She wasn't able to express her emotion through, you know, tears, despite wanting to do so. 336 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:52,040 And so we did like a lot of like a long emotional journey about the reason why she wasn't able 337 00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:56,680 to and what was happening in like the moments where she felt like crying, but then she also 338 00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:57,680 felt like couldn't. 339 00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:01,280 So obviously there was something that was blocking the tears from coming out. 340 00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:07,320 And then there was a lot of work of, I say, like giving new meaning to what the tears 341 00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:10,440 were compared to what she was taught when she was a child. 342 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:15,600 And then she was able to, on our last session, because at some point, you know, coaching 343 00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:22,720 is going to end because clients and people have the instruments to then go on and then 344 00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:27,200 live life and do the work without needing to be coached. 345 00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:31,400 Because then it's like you leave a part of yourself, but I leave a part of myself with 346 00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:32,400 my clients. 347 00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:36,880 And there's something like my therapist, they left a part of themselves with me, but also 348 00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:41,420 goes like for every kind of coach, like my tennis coach, my first tennis coach is always 349 00:23:41,420 --> 00:23:42,680 with me when I play tennis. 350 00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:44,840 So it's something that just stays. 351 00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:47,040 And that is the beautiful part of it. 352 00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:53,640 But then, yeah, in our last session, she ended up, she ended up actually crying and that 353 00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:55,160 was an amazing moment. 354 00:23:55,160 --> 00:24:01,280 So it's not just about the dating, it's not just about the finding love, finding a partner, 355 00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:05,920 but it's also just this, I think it is milestones within yourself. 356 00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:11,760 So they are very, very private, but I think they are the best ones as well. 357 00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:13,880 I like what you said about the ripple effect. 358 00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:17,400 I can totally see that happening. 359 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:21,920 You know, you make one little change and then it radiates into all these other facets and 360 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:25,440 arguably other relationships in your life as well. 361 00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:26,440 Yeah. 362 00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:32,520 One of my breakthroughs when I was in therapy was that I was, I was very successful professionally. 363 00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:37,640 So I've always been and I was utter failure when it came to dating. 364 00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:41,480 So there was these two, these two parts of me that I couldn't, I couldn't really reconcile 365 00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:46,080 because in my mind, if you are successful at something, then you should be successful 366 00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:47,080 at everything else. 367 00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:48,080 Right. 368 00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:53,360 So one of my big breakthrough was actually that I was applying the rules of, I don't 369 00:24:53,360 --> 00:24:57,000 know, like the university exams to dating. 370 00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:03,720 So I felt, well, no, I felt like I was absolutely convinced that the success of my dating life 371 00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:06,240 was just a hundred percent dependent on me. 372 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:09,320 And like there wasn't anybody else in the picture. 373 00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:14,520 It sounds like so simple and so trivial to say now, but I felt that I was responsible 374 00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:20,320 for a hundred percent of what happened during, you know, my dates, during my relationship. 375 00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:26,440 And by doing that, by being convinced of that, it was like I was removing the other, I was 376 00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:27,520 removing my partner. 377 00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:34,160 I was removing my dates from, from having, you know, responsibility for their 50%. 378 00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:38,800 So if I was out on a date with someone and it went well, but then I wouldn't, I wouldn't 379 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:40,480 really hear from him anymore. 380 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:44,280 Then I would, I would feel totally responsible because of support for that. 381 00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:48,520 So I would feel that I had done something wrong, that I wasn't, you know, handsome enough 382 00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:52,540 that I wasn't funny enough that I wasn't, I was never enough or I was too much. 383 00:25:52,540 --> 00:25:56,880 So it was all down to me and something that I realized. 384 00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:59,160 And again, it might seem very simple. 385 00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:04,480 It sounds so simple now that I say that, that's so basic, but you can only do, you know, up 386 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:09,280 to a certain point in a relationship because there are other people involved. 387 00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:13,360 It's not like when you're trying to study for a university exam, that it's kind of all 388 00:26:13,360 --> 00:26:18,200 down to you, which is not really true because, you know, there is your professor involved 389 00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:19,200 as well, as well. 390 00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:21,680 There is, you know, luck. 391 00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:26,880 There is like some random factors, but it is much more about yourself than other people. 392 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:29,560 But when it comes to dating, it is about other people. 393 00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:30,640 It's not just about you. 394 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:32,320 It's about you and someone else. 395 00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:34,280 So there's only so much that you can do. 396 00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:37,380 There's only so much that you can be responsible for. 397 00:26:37,380 --> 00:26:39,400 That was one of my breakthrough. 398 00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:46,160 What are some common, let's say quote, mistakes that you see people making as far as dating? 399 00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:52,400 So as I said before, compromising all their values and their core beliefs is one of them. 400 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:58,920 And I can tell you that, you know, if you're feeling that a part of you is being an important 401 00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:03,960 part of you is kind of dying when you give an answer to your partner or your date, this 402 00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:06,520 is like a massive red flag. 403 00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:10,640 And you should take notice of that because when I can tell you, for example, when I had 404 00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:19,240 my first relationship, I was so in love in kind of like an unhealthy way. 405 00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:22,040 And I've always wanted kids, even if I was gay. 406 00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:25,600 I mean, I've known that I was gay since I was eight years old. 407 00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:27,840 And I've always known that I wanted kids. 408 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:33,360 So I've always thought, I don't know, in some ways I'm going to be able to have kids. 409 00:27:33,360 --> 00:27:35,200 So I never really worried too much. 410 00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:39,480 But with this first boyfriend, I remember when we like after a couple of months in the 411 00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:43,760 relationship, we talked about kids and he didn't want to have them. 412 00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:48,560 And because I was so, you know, in just like prey of this love addiction dynamics, I've 413 00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:51,000 said, oh, yes, I don't want kids either. 414 00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:55,760 And I remember the moment that I felt like a part of me, a part of my heart that just 415 00:27:55,760 --> 00:28:01,280 died then and there because I compromised on something that it was so essential to me. 416 00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:07,200 And that is something that I still is a moment that I still remember because this is what 417 00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:12,640 it feels like to compromise on something that you believe to be to be true and to believe 418 00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:18,520 that you believe to be absolutely yourself for in order to please somebody else. 419 00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:23,480 And thinking that, you know, if you please your partner or your date, then it means that 420 00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:26,480 you're going to have like a relationship, you're going to find love, whatever it is 421 00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:30,600 that your your goal, whatever your goal is, it's never going to work for you. 422 00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:35,360 It's never going to work in the long term because you always you will always feel like 423 00:28:35,360 --> 00:28:37,720 you're not really you're not really there. 424 00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:43,480 You're compromised on on too much or on something that it was just so important for you to be 425 00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:44,480 happy. 426 00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:47,680 So that is by far the most common mistake. 427 00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:53,440 It's hard to find a balance between what you feel you can compromise on, because of course, 428 00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:57,400 you know, being in a relationship with someone, regardless of whether it is, you know, a love 429 00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:02,920 relationship or a work relationship or a friend relationship, there are going to be some compromises. 430 00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:07,560 I think, you know, my first rule of knowing who you are and knowing what your core values 431 00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:12,680 are, that's when it comes into play, because then you will be able to know, you know, what 432 00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:18,040 are the deal breakers and what instead is stuff that you might be willing to be to to 433 00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:19,160 compromise on. 434 00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:25,920 So knowing yourself and knowing who you are and what makes you tick, what makes you happy, 435 00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:28,640 what you want out of life is really important. 436 00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:31,960 And then the second rule for me will be know what you want. 437 00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:36,400 And this is something that most people just don't do, especially people like me that just 438 00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:43,360 wanted to find love and were willing to compromise on everything and anything in order to find 439 00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:44,360 it. 440 00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:50,880 But what is it that you want out of your partner or your relationship, your life with your 441 00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:51,880 partner? 442 00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:57,720 And something that I always advise my clients to do is every time that you go on dates or 443 00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:02,640 you start dating someone or a relationship with someone and then they don't work out, 444 00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:08,240 it's really important to understand what it is about this particular date or this particular 445 00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:10,240 relationship that didn't work for you. 446 00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:15,280 So that you kind of find that you start the list of what you don't want and what you want 447 00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:18,720 in a partner or in a relationship. 448 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:22,280 It's something that works quite well because it takes the attention away from the fact 449 00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:26,760 that a date that doesn't go well is a failure, which is not. 450 00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:32,000 But many people feel, especially when they are on a mission to find love, every time 451 00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:34,760 that every date is an opportunity to find their love. 452 00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:39,880 And when that opportunity doesn't materialize and something goes wrong, then they feel like 453 00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:41,360 a failure. 454 00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:45,400 And it's not absolutely what it happens. 455 00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:51,640 But if you start saying, oh, OK, so with this guy, it didn't work because actually he was 456 00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:52,640 evil. 457 00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:53,640 He was cruel. 458 00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:54,640 I don't like that. 459 00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:55,640 I don't want that in a guy. 460 00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:57,880 But let's make a list of things that you don't want. 461 00:30:57,880 --> 00:30:59,320 So that takes you. 462 00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:06,920 That makes I find that this process makes puts all the dates in kind of perspective 463 00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:12,960 is like a journey that you yourself are on, regardless of who you are in a relationship 464 00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:14,720 with or on a date with. 465 00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:21,400 And it takes the sting away from the perceived failures that you can have when something 466 00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:23,200 doesn't work out in your dating life. 467 00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:28,400 I mean, it doesn't work out like most of more more times that it does work. 468 00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:30,840 So that's that's normal. 469 00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:36,760 What do you notice as far as trends in the dating industry and anything that's relevant 470 00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:38,560 for people in their 30s and beyond? 471 00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:45,400 So I was actually lucky to spend my early 20s in a world without dating apps. 472 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:52,880 So if I wanted to meet someone, I had to actually go to a club and go talk to someone in person 473 00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:53,880 right away. 474 00:31:53,880 --> 00:32:00,000 I find that dating apps have changed the landscape completely, because now when I go into clubs 475 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:02,680 and I actually don't go to clubs that often anymore. 476 00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:09,640 But when I go, I am amazed to see, you know, people side by side or like one meter apart, 477 00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:14,760 but they are talking to one another on Grindr or whatever dating app instead of talking 478 00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:16,160 to each other. 479 00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:22,000 It's like we have become so afraid of rejection that we don't even go and talk to one another 480 00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:24,920 anymore because we're so afraid of being rejected. 481 00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:29,840 And I have to say, unfortunately, that is justified because talking to someone, especially 482 00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:34,760 when you are living maybe in like big metropolis, just like London, for example. 483 00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:38,240 But I probably believe that it's the same in everywhere else in the world. 484 00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:43,600 When you go talk to someone, like when you approach them, it's just seen as like an overstep 485 00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:49,760 of the boundaries that you always start thinking that the person who approaches you is like 486 00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:53,760 crazy or on drugs or, you know, there's something wrong with them. 487 00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:59,120 So we haven't really made life easier for each other to just talk and get to know one 488 00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:00,120 another. 489 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:06,000 I love dating apps and I don't have anything because I think they brought more benefits 490 00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:08,600 to us than drawbacks. 491 00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:14,660 But I think one negative side to them is we stopped communicating in real life anymore. 492 00:33:14,660 --> 00:33:21,000 And I've always been one to just take everything from offline to online to to sorry, from online 493 00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:24,040 to real life as soon as possible. 494 00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:29,840 So even when I was on my own dating apps, I would spend maybe just a couple of days 495 00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:31,080 talking to someone. 496 00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:36,620 But my goal was to if there was some sort of chemistry there, I just wanted to bring 497 00:33:36,620 --> 00:33:41,600 it to real life as soon as possible, just because sometimes the chemistry that you have 498 00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:45,040 online with someone that doesn't really translate into real life. 499 00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:50,760 And I didn't want to spend months talking to someone online and then build all these 500 00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:56,040 castles in my mind, a little love addiction to then find that all my hopes would then 501 00:33:56,040 --> 00:34:01,320 crush when we met in real life because the hype just like because like the real experience 502 00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:04,720 didn't match up to what I had in my mind. 503 00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:08,680 When I'm interviewed, I'm asked about dating apps and experience on dating apps. 504 00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:15,200 And for me, I always try to convey the message that what happens on dating apps, it's not 505 00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:16,880 like it's not real life. 506 00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:22,200 So if you know someone on a dating app, it's not like saying someone is your friend in 507 00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:23,600 real life. 508 00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:30,720 So there are still you still have to break the ice and kind of bring that online relationship 509 00:34:30,720 --> 00:34:34,160 into offline into a real life territory. 510 00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:35,160 It's scary. 511 00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:36,160 It can be scary. 512 00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:40,320 But we're humans, that's what we are meant to do, not spend our lives online. 513 00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:44,920 And like I'm saying that as an online marketing specialist as well. 514 00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:50,840 The real life, especially from the point of view of feelings, happens, you know, in offline. 515 00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:57,400 Yeah, app management was a big topic of conversation over season one. 516 00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:00,680 You know, people they don't want to reply too soon. 517 00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:02,760 They don't want their profile to be too cheesy. 518 00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:04,800 They don't want to attract the wrong type. 519 00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:07,520 How do you open a conversation? 520 00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:09,480 So fun question for you. 521 00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:12,400 What's better than saying, hey, how's it going? 522 00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:13,400 Yes. 523 00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:19,640 So again, this is like because we are bombarded with messages from especially if you if you 524 00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:25,000 have like three or four apps on your phone, then you are probably bombarded with messages 525 00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:28,360 and you kind of have to stand out from the crowd. 526 00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:30,520 Also, I how it's going. 527 00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:35,240 It works in real life because you take into account, you know, the effort that the person 528 00:35:35,240 --> 00:35:39,800 has made in order to muster the courage to come up to you, which is something that I've 529 00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:42,800 always admired. 530 00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:47,480 Online how it's going, it's not really making much of an effort, is it? 531 00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:53,000 So I would say start experimenting with opening lines. 532 00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:57,440 And it could be something funny, like for for a while I use something like, please don't 533 00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:02,200 tell me you're one of the people that claps when a plan when a plane lands, something 534 00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:05,840 like that, you know, like, hi, I'm Dario, please tell me that. 535 00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:12,240 And it was it was probably a horrible line, but it kind of broke the ice and it made them 536 00:36:12,240 --> 00:36:13,240 laugh. 537 00:36:13,240 --> 00:36:15,200 And if you didn't make them laugh, then they will block me. 538 00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:16,960 And I knew that they were not my type. 539 00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:18,880 So it was all right. 540 00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:21,920 But at least it kind of stood out. 541 00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:28,000 And it almost always guaranteed a reply, which is something that, you know, it's very hard 542 00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:29,760 to come by these days. 543 00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:33,120 Our last episode was called the litmus test of dating. 544 00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:39,080 And we talked about in business terms, let's say, KPIs or milestones. 545 00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:41,440 In your mind, what are those like? 546 00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:46,360 How let's say, are your clients measuring like you talked about their personal goals? 547 00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:50,560 That's one thing, you know, their personal growth and how they are approaching situations. 548 00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:56,880 But in terms of dating, what are those steps that get them towards a relationship? 549 00:36:56,880 --> 00:37:02,160 Yeah, they vary with from clients to clients, because I guess it depends on their culture. 550 00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:07,680 It depends on their what point in their life they are. 551 00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:10,000 I can tell you that me. 552 00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:18,280 So moving about conversion rates, moving people from dating app to WhatsApp was was a very 553 00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:19,280 important step. 554 00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:26,000 The WhatsApp for me was basically the step before going out on a real date in real life. 555 00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:31,760 So dating app to WhatsApp and then WhatsApp to real date in real life. 556 00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:36,560 For me, these two were very big KPIs. 557 00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:40,560 And you want to have, you know, people, of course, you start talking to if you're talking 558 00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:45,000 about we're talking about marketing funnel, you start talking with 100 people on a dating 559 00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:46,000 app. 560 00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:49,280 Then 10 make the cut and get to WhatsApp. 561 00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:53,280 And then depending on what your strategy is and what you're comfortable with, then maybe 562 00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:56,640 half of them, then you arrange a date with. 563 00:37:56,640 --> 00:38:02,600 And then how many of these five dates are going to go well, potentially two or three. 564 00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:06,360 And then you start interacting with with them. 565 00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:11,800 I've never been a fan of like the rules like in Sex and the City's Charlotte rules, like 566 00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:14,480 you have to wait until the third day to sleep with him. 567 00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:15,480 I don't believe in that. 568 00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:17,840 I think you need to do whatever feels right for you. 569 00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:24,760 I've had successful relationship that started with a one night stand and very bad relationship 570 00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:30,120 that ended without, you know, after 10 days without really getting to getting into the 571 00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:31,120 bedroom. 572 00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:35,320 I don't think that we are at that point in in evolution where we're getting someone to 573 00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:41,040 bed right away or after three days or after two days means or can actually tell how the 574 00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:42,520 relationship is going to go. 575 00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:44,960 It's a relationship that's so much more than that. 576 00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:49,880 But one thing that I've always done is even if I was dating, if I was going out on dates 577 00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:56,640 with different guys, if I as soon as I felt that I really liked someone or that potentially 578 00:38:56,640 --> 00:39:02,560 there was something that could develop with someone that I would devote like 100 percent 579 00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:05,160 of my dating effort to them. 580 00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:07,520 So I would actually abandon the other one. 581 00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:09,520 I would, you know, stop dating. 582 00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:10,520 Abandon. 583 00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:11,520 Oh my God. 584 00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:12,520 That's horrible. 585 00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:13,520 Abandon. 586 00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:14,520 No, no, no, no. 587 00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:17,560 Never, never abandoned without an explanation. 588 00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:18,560 Never. 589 00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:22,120 No, I would stop dating the other ones and just fully concentrate on that. 590 00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:26,440 And there was something that for me was important because it was it was part of who I was. 591 00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:31,560 It was part of my values and something that I was expecting from from the other one. 592 00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:37,820 My my my date was also that if we felt that there was something that could potentially 593 00:39:37,820 --> 00:39:42,680 developed into something serious, then I would expect them to kind of do the same. 594 00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:49,520 So focus just on me without, you know, because if they if they suffered from formal and I 595 00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:51,480 knew they probably they weren't right for me. 596 00:39:51,480 --> 00:40:00,120 But if they were willing to invest into into whatever that was and see where it would go, 597 00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:03,640 then for me, there was there was a big positive sign. 598 00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:04,920 Yeah, definitely. 599 00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:11,880 Well, in the age of abandonment and ghosting, a big question that a lot of our guests had 600 00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:17,760 was how you've gone on a few dates and you know it's not working. 601 00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:20,920 How and when do you break it off? 602 00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:28,120 So sometimes it will be you that will have the clarity to see that things are not working, 603 00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:30,840 that the two of you are not a match. 604 00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:32,480 Sometimes it will be the other one. 605 00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:36,760 The other your date would have this clarity and then will tell you that things are not 606 00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:37,760 working. 607 00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:46,240 The other thing I find that we need to do a lot of education in society about is that 608 00:40:46,240 --> 00:40:51,440 just because something doesn't work between two people, it doesn't mean that one one is 609 00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:54,960 OK and one is not OK or one is right and the other is wrong. 610 00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:56,520 One is good and the other is bad. 611 00:40:56,520 --> 00:40:59,080 No, it just means that it's not a match. 612 00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:01,440 Both of you are actually OK. 613 00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:02,760 It just wasn't a match. 614 00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:03,760 And that's OK. 615 00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:09,040 I read a lot of psychology books, as you can imagine, because I'm so interested about this 616 00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:14,400 stuff and also to just get myself up to date with the latest study. 617 00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:20,960 And these abandonment crises that I have experienced when I was dating, they are becoming more 618 00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:24,800 and more frequent in people that are in well in people. 619 00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:28,560 I was going to say people that are dating, but actually they are common in people in 620 00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:30,000 a relationship as well. 621 00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:35,040 This fear of being abandoned, which is something that stemmed from a very early age when we 622 00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:42,280 were like babies and we needed to rely on someone else in order to survive. 623 00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:44,760 It's not the case anymore, but this is something that stick with us. 624 00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:54,560 So we need to kind of like give a new meaning to this breaking up this, you know, stop dating 625 00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:58,400 when something just doesn't work because it's not the end of the world. 626 00:41:58,400 --> 00:41:59,680 It doesn't mean that you're a failure. 627 00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:01,360 It doesn't mean that you're not OK. 628 00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:04,040 You are both like equally OK people. 629 00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:05,640 You're just not a match. 630 00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:07,040 And that is fine. 631 00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:08,080 It's going to happen. 632 00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:12,200 But one thing that I say is I am like a true believer in communication. 633 00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:18,000 So if it is an uncomfortable conversation, I know it's hard, but those are the conversations 634 00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:22,160 that you need to have in order to in order to grow as a person. 635 00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:27,000 Those are the conversations that you shouldn't really shy away from having a hard conversation. 636 00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:28,960 First of all, can strengthen someone's bond. 637 00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:33,200 Yeah, maybe you're not the two of you are not a match or like a romantic match. 638 00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:40,200 Maybe you're a match as friends or eventually you can still keep in touch and you never know. 639 00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:45,200 And this hard conversation, this very uncomfortable conversation that, by the way, 640 00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:50,960 are not just about dating, you have hard conversations when you are in a relationship, 641 00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:55,360 even a happy, healthy relationship, you still have uncomfortable conversations to have. 642 00:42:55,360 --> 00:43:01,040 And that is the same in, you know, at work with your family, with your friends. 643 00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:05,760 There will always be some hard conversation, hard conversation or uncomfortable 644 00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:08,720 conversation doesn't mean necessarily confrontation. 645 00:43:08,720 --> 00:43:11,560 This is something that people are afraid of, afraid of confrontations. 646 00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:13,680 I don't like confrontations at all. 647 00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:15,480 I tend to be like a people pleaser. 648 00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:16,760 It's in my nature. 649 00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:22,360 But what I where I find strength to approach these uncomfortable conversation is that 650 00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:25,440 you're both going to get on the other side of it much stronger. 651 00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:31,880 Even if the bond ends, you will be left with the feeling that you've done something that you were afraid of. 652 00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:35,400 You have been honest with the other person. 653 00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:45,440 And most of all, you were brave enough to actually tell them in their face rather than by a text message or the worst ghosting. 654 00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:56,080 So ghosting is like the plague of contemporary society is something that, to be honest, I can understand. 655 00:43:56,080 --> 00:44:05,240 But it comes from a place of cowardice rather than a place of, you know, whatever it is that people trying to justify it with. 656 00:44:05,240 --> 00:44:14,680 I don't think it's ever OK to ghost anyone in life because at the end of the day, we're all human beings. 657 00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:15,920 We're here on this planet. 658 00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:20,400 We should feel kind of a bond with one another just because of that. 659 00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:24,240 We are on this planet in the middle of the universe together. 660 00:44:24,240 --> 00:44:25,880 We should be kind to one another. 661 00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:36,520 And being kind sometimes means telling some hard truths, but at least telling them with compassion to their face rather than behind their back or even without telling them at all. 662 00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:38,800 I'm with you on that. 663 00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:43,560 We could talk quite a long time about ghosting, but I'm not going to get into that. 664 00:44:43,560 --> 00:44:46,320 So much about it. 665 00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:51,320 Do you have any advice or words of wisdom you would like to leave our listeners with? 666 00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:56,040 Yes, before looking outside of you, look inside you. 667 00:44:56,040 --> 00:44:59,280 Most of the things they are trying to find outside you, they are inside you. 668 00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:03,560 And that goes actually before blaming, you know, other people outside of you. 669 00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:10,800 Just maybe look inside yourself because you will find that there is some responsibility to be taken within you as well. 670 00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:24,560 Probably one of the most common mistakes that people make in dating is that people come to, especially when they are burned by a relationship, they come to me or they go into therapy or to coaching and they blame the other person. 671 00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:34,760 There is something, there is a big blame culture going on out there where we don't really take responsibility and we just blame the other people that we were dating or that we were in a relationship with. 672 00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:46,360 Now, I'm not talking about those instances where somebody cheated or there was like where the responsibility was 100% onto one side. 673 00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:57,280 But I find that for the vast majority of relationships or dating or the dates that had not well, the responsibility is kind of shared. 674 00:45:57,280 --> 00:46:11,320 So when my clients come into coaching and when I see that they start blaming the other for everything, that for me is something that we really need to work on. 675 00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:22,680 Because everybody then, you know, after a therapy or a coaching journey, they find that there is so much responsibility that we need to be able to take for ourselves in our relationship. 676 00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:29,160 So and even just because the other one has done something bad to us doesn't mean that we are completely innocent. 677 00:46:29,160 --> 00:46:42,160 So, but regardless of that, I always like to do that myself and to encourage my clients to just look inside themselves to see what they have done and how they have handled the situation, 678 00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:48,720 whatever situation they are in, in order to get some more learnings for them for the future. 679 00:46:48,720 --> 00:46:53,680 It's not just like something that they do for their partners, it's something that they do for them. 680 00:46:53,680 --> 00:47:01,680 So everything that we learn from a relationship, regardless of the outcome, is something that we always bring with ourselves and forever. 681 00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:06,520 So and that's how we grow as human beings as well. 682 00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:18,400 Dating Log is recorded and hosted by Wyndham Juno. 683 00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:24,840 It's produced by me, Harry Dark, and our artwork is in collaboration with Esme Heming Studio. 684 00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:28,440 A big thank you to today's guest, Dario van der Kraken. 685 00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:37,240 You can find him on Instagram at Dario.LifeCoach or check out his website at www.Dario.Coach. 686 00:47:37,240 --> 00:47:41,640 Whilst you're at it, you can follow us on Instagram at Dating Log Podcast. 687 00:47:41,640 --> 00:47:47,000 Now to be found on YouTube and TikTok, our website is datinglogpodcast.com. 688 00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:49,920 Would you like to be a guest on the show or know someone who should? 689 00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:56,960 Then send us a message, DMs are open, or email us, datinglogpodcast.gmail.com. 690 00:47:56,960 --> 00:48:00,160 Please like, subscribe, review, wherever you listen. 691 00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:02,240 We'll be back soon with more episodes. 692 00:48:02,240 --> 00:48:17,680 In the meantime, please don't ghost us.