Welcome to Dating Log, the podcast that records the ups and downs of dating in your 30s and
beyond.
We've decided it's time to get some advice from the experts, someone who knows the dating
world inside out and whose job it is to help others navigate it too.
This is episode 14, Dario the Dating Coach.
Dario van der Kraken is a dating coach based in London and works mostly online with clients
from all over the world.
This conversation is jam-packed with professional advice.
For Dario, the journey of coaching starts from within.
He covers the theme of love addiction, yep that's a thing, and he shares his perspectives
on finding quote, the true love that everybody is searching for.
Handing over to our regular host Wyndham for this insightful conversation and a quick reminder,
stay tuned for Dating Log's second season coming soon.
My name is Dario and I'm a dating and relationship coach and I specifically work with gay guys
that are having trouble finding, you know, their footing in dating, finding, you know,
their good, balanced, healthy love life, which is so common these days, I find.
And I started actually, you know, as a coach because I had the world of troubles in my
twenties, in my dating life.
It was just horrible.
I had like the worst time ever.
And it wasn't actually until I was, I think it was, I was in my thirties when I started
to finally feel like I knew who I was, I knew what I wanted and my life really changed.
And most of the change actually is down to years and years of therapy.
I went into therapy when I was in my twenties because at some point after like the yet another
rejection I felt, okay, this is, this is not normal.
There's something is happening.
I'm not approaching things in the right way.
So I need some help.
And I, I'm really proud of my 20 something year old self for, for doing that, for asking
for help because going to therapy was the best investment that I've ever done in my
life.
And I'm reaping the benefits now, like even like 10 years later, because, because I feel
happy every day.
I'm not saying like, you know, all day, every day, but I do have happy most of the days.
So if people want to take something from today's episode, just ask for help.
If you feel like you can't do it, if you try to do things on your own and you can't just
ask for help because there are people out there that can help you.
People that have gone through the same things that you are going through.
So at least it doesn't make you feel alone and your life can really change.
Can you let our listeners know which market are you operating in?
Where are your clients based?
So my clients I pay are based all over the world because I only work online.
And yeah, so right now I'm working with a client in Indonesia, for example, I've worked
with clients in, well, all over Europe, in the States, New Zealand.
The only limit is the time zone difference really.
And so dating coach in and of itself is a pretty niche job.
So what made you want to become a dating coach?
I mean, you did your own therapy and I'm, I can maybe assume you were doing something
else with your life.
So coaching is because as I said, I'm, I went to therapy and my life changed.
So I've always had it in me.
I've always thought that I wanted to help other people the same way that I was helped,
but I was never going to go back to university and do the specialization schools and study
for another 10 years to become a counselor or a psychologist or a therapist.
And then it was actually during the beginning of the pandemic.
I don't know how I just got like this light bulb moment and I said, well, okay, I might
never be a therapist or a psychologist, but I can become a coach and I can help people
in, in this way.
Might not be as full-fledged as a psychologist services, but I can still do my part and I
can draw my experiences.
And so that's what I did.
I did a course in transformation or coaching.
I passed my course and qualified.
I did a lot of hours of practice and then I started out.
Yeah.
So it's been, it's been a few years now.
Cool.
When you're working with someone, someone, let's say they reach out to you on the forum
via your website, what does the process kind of look like?
So you can either book a session right away with me, or you can get in touch and we can
have an exploratory call.
So some people really need the help right away.
So I find that letting them book a session right away is probably, is the first thing
is, is the thing that probably they need the most.
But if you are thinking about, if you're not sure that you want to start a coaching journey,
then you're very welcome to just get in touch with me.
We'll have an exploratory call and we basically talk about why you are thinking about getting
into coaching.
And I tell you, you know, if we are, if I can help you, there are things that, you know,
as a coach and as a counselor, I'm not qualified to help with like traumatic events.
It is something that coaches cannot really deal with.
So I might refer you to some psychologist friends.
But mostly I think the exploratory calls, and I speak from experience as well, are to
find out whether we are a good fit.
So maybe you don't like me, maybe you don't like the way I am.
Maybe you don't understand my access.
Maybe I don't understand yours.
Maybe there is no chemistry there and that is absolutely fine.
So that's what these introductory calls are for.
And then if we decided to move ahead, then we normally set a number of sessions, a number
of weeks that we work together.
And in our first session, we start, we establish what the goal, the main goal for us is, well,
for the client mostly.
So that we always have that as like the northern star and we don't, you know, go off tangents
if it's not useful to reaching that goal.
And then we start.
What kind of people are coming to you?
What state are they in when they arrive in your inbox?
Most of the times I find they are in a very hectic times in their lives, in a very chaotic
times.
And if there is an adjective that describes most of the people that come to into my inbox
is, I would say lost.
They feel a little lost.
They've tried different ways.
They have different challenges they have not been able to overcome.
And so they are borderline on hopeless, lost borderline on hopeless.
And so what they need for me is kind of like a plan.
So bringing some structure into, into what they are dealing with and how they can overcome
it.
And clarity as well.
One thing that I really benefited from my years in therapy and coaching now as well,
because I still have a coach and I do coaching and I think everybody should do, but I'm biased,
is like clarity.
When you know, my, my coach, my mentor, my therapist was able to actually say, okay,
so you're experiencing ABCD and this is because of X.
So even just give it a name, a label is something that helps so much.
He said like the word chaos.
People are coming in this kind of feeling a bit lost, like dating clearly hasn't worked
for them.
So they've reached out to find a dating coach.
Do you notice common themes or mistakes, let's say in your eyes that people tend to struggle
the most with?
Um, yes.
How much time do we have?
Okay.
So the first one, and it's something that is by no means just specific to, to, to gay
guys, but it's probably, it's like such a common thing by finding with it, like talking
to friends or talking to acquaintances is that we want to find love so badly that we
are willing to compromise on, on who we are, even like the core of our own selves.
That never works.
That will never work because then what, what kind of love are we like?
We can't really find love if we, we don't love ourselves.
I mean, RuPaul is right.
If you don't love yourself, how in the hell are you going to love somebody else?
That's, that's actually correct.
So if you are prepared to chase after people that they don't really give a crap about you
or they're asking you to change or that you have to change in order to please, that will
never be a healthy, happy form of love.
Yes.
You might be able to establish a relationship with someone and that maybe will be helpful
for a while in order for you not to feel lonely, but then this is never going to last.
And even if it lasts, it's not going to be a happy one.
So there's something inherently wrong with the way that it was formed.
So I would say this compromising on, on who they are, on their values in order to find
love because they believe that that is like the second most common thing.
This is love that will magically change their lives in one second and everything will then
turn into, you know, uh, flowers and rainbows and stars and sprinkles.
That is not what love is.
It is like such a common misconception that is fostered by, you know, the society and
the culture as a whole.
Love is actually something that is so ordinary.
And I say that because love, the real love, the happy one, the healthy one doesn't really
change who you are.
It doesn't really change your life.
It's complimented in a wonderful, extraordinary way, but it's nothing out of the ordinary.
So when I was able to find love, it was such like an effortless, natural experience.
It was an extension of my life and myself that, you know, sometimes I, you know, when
I took a step back and just analyzed the whole thing, I remember like thinking, this is so
normal.
This feels so normal to me.
And that was something that I never expected because I was just like many of us, like one
that thought that, you know, once I am able to find love, that my life is going to change
and everything will just, you know, feel better and taste better.
And it would be like a completely different world just because I had this love.
But actually, no, it felt the opposite.
It felt like normal.
It felt like, like meant to be.
It felt like a part of myself, but because I was able to do a shit lot of work on myself
and be able to approach dating and love life in a way that was really in line with my values
and my core beliefs and basically being a hundred percent myself.
This is something that has also come up in the podcast with different guests, this idea
of finding love and finding a relationship.
They're not always synonymous with each other, the way people talk about them.
Sometimes people say, I'm looking for a relationship.
Sometimes people say, I'm looking for a life partner.
Sometimes people say, I'm looking for love.
Are these things mutually exclusive?
Do they go together?
How does it work with you and your coaching?
What do you say to people?
Normally what I say to people is asking, I ask a lot of questions.
So this is another misconception about the role of the coach.
People think that a dating coach is like a sports coach.
So I'm going to tell you what to do and I'm going to tell you where to go and I'm going
to tell you what to say.
But actually, no, like coaching, especially transformational coaching is much more about
asking the right questions so that my client will find the answers because I might have
my own answers, but they are my own.
They work for me.
They might not necessarily work for you, especially when it comes to the realm of emotions and
feelings, it's all very individual.
It's all down to who we are as a person.
So I wouldn't say the finding of a relationship, finding love are mutually exclusive, not
equal.
I would hope not, but I would definitely ask, okay, so what is the difference?
What do you think is the difference between finding a relationship and finding love?
And then see what they say and go from there.
And what's important to them as well?
You mentioned values.
Yeah, values are so important.
So I think over my years of dating and then coaching, but always kind of dating because
I've been in a relationship for five years now, but before I was basically single for
most of my life, but I was able to come up with a few, I'll say like guidelines for dating.
And those are guidelines that I use with my clients as well.
And the first one is always know who you are.
If you know who you are, you are in a much better position to understand, to approach
dating and approach other people from a very centered, a very grounded position.
If you don't know who you are, it's like being a ship in a storm.
So you get taken here and there by whatever winds or whatever storms blows.
But when you know who you are, then you are an island in the middle of the storm.
So even if there is like storm all around you, then at least you know who you are and
you can better navigate that.
Is everyone coachable in your opinion?
The beautiful thing about coaching or therapy is that it's not mandatory.
So you have to want to be there in order to do it.
And for most of my life with friends that have gone into therapy or head coaching, we've
always said, oh, therapy should be made mandatory for everyone because it's such a good investment.
And once you have the tools to analyze what is happening to you, you're actually able
to see what is happening for other people, but they are unaware of what is happening
because they haven't been through the process.
They don't have the tools to manage what is happening to them.
And it's just a pity.
So one thing I remember of my first years in therapy is that you kind of want to basically
do therapy to everyone because you know that they don't know better and you just want to
help them because on the other side it's much better and it's just like another world.
So we always said, oh, you know, therapy should be made mandatory.
But to be honest with you, it shouldn't because if it is something that is forced on you,
then it doesn't really work.
You know, what works?
And this is something I find very, very liberating is that I read studies that say that the best
clients, the clients that get the most out of coaching or therapy are not the ones that
are burning with the desire to fix themselves, but with the desire to learn about themselves
and about how their brain works and their mind works.
And I find that to be so true because once you know, you know, what triggers you and
why, then you don't need to be to want to fix yourself.
It's something that automatically happens.
So if you approach therapy or coaching with curiosity, like why am I reacting this way?
Why, you know, X, Y, Z saying, you know, these things is making me feel like so on edge.
And once you know the reason why, it's not like you actually fix yourself or, you know,
that trigger doesn't work for you anymore, but you put a frame, you put some context
around it.
That is what, what basically frees you, what liberates you because the next time that the
trigger is happening, you'll be able to recognize and say, okay, so this is happening because
of that.
And then, you know, a couple of times after the triggers happen again, you'll be able
to say, okay, well, yeah, I can feel it like happening.
I can feel that I'm being triggered, but no, actually I'm not interested in reacting to
it anymore.
And that's how you change, but without really wanting to fix yourself, because I don't believe
we need to be fixed.
We just need to understand who we are, what we want and our past history and how it still
affects us in ways that we're not aware of.
When I go to your website and I look at it, there is a pop-up that comes up and also towards
the bottom, I see a big break the cycle of toxic relationships.
Is this a theme in dating?
And can you tell me more about how are you encouraging or helping people to stop these
cycles to recognize these triggers?
How does that work?
I'm not going to lie.
It's not something that is going to be sold in like a nanosecond like most marketers and
more.
Most people out there actually say, oh, you know, fix this in one second and then you'd
be free.
It's a long process, but it starts with being aware that, first of all, being aware that
something is not working, something is not making you happy in your life at the moment.
And I think it's very important to admit that.
That is a massive first step when you admit that something is not working and that you
might need to do something about it, whether it is to research some more, ask for help,
but admitting that something is not working is the first step.
And then what follows is kind of a long process, but I believe that it's a beautiful journey
when you decide, you know, that even when you admit that something is not working and
that might make you feel like a failure or like you've done something wrong or that your
life is absolutely a disaster, it's actually not that.
It's a sign of absolute strength.
And once you start thinking about your life and taking care of what it is that is not
working, I think it's such a beautiful, loving gesture that you can make to yourself.
Just because there is something that is not working just because you're not happy, it
doesn't mean that your life is a failure.
It just means that you need to pay more attention to it.
My field of my niche of expertise is actually love addiction because I suffered from it
for as long as I can remember.
And I still suffer from it despite, you know, having been kind of diagnosed and knowing
the ways that it works.
I still feel every now and then in my relationship that there are those dynamics that still come
into play, but I'm able to recognize them and I'm able to manage them and do something
about them so that they don't take over my life.
What is love addiction?
Basically, love addiction is when you are paying so much attention to your partners
or your dates, you know, thoughts, the feeling and everything, and to the point that you
are basically erasing yourself.
I can tell you like more definition, like a proper scientific definition of love addiction,
but I find that if I explain this with these words, more people will recognize themselves
in it or at least in parts of it.
It's like when you are thinking, instead of thinking, you know, what do I want to have
for dinner?
Automatically, your brain goes, what is, you know, my partners want to, will want to have
for dinner or my date, how can I make my date happy?
So instead of thinking about what makes you happy and what makes you, you know, fulfilled,
you are always thinking about somebody else's.
It can be your partner, it can be, you know, some authority figures in your life, but the
core of it is that basically 100% of your mind and brain activity is devoted to the
other and there is 0% devoted to you.
One of the things that people can do in order to step out of this, at least for just like
a couple of seconds every day, which will still be an achievement, is to start asking
themselves, okay, but what do I want?
You're not going to have an answer for it right away because you're not used to thinking
about yourself.
So there is a whole journey of discovery there, but I think is one very teeny tiny action
that you can take on a daily basis that, you know, if you do it, you know, every day in,
you know, six months a year is going to have a much bigger effect and you're going to start
to, you know, at least not be fully dependent on the other, but you start, you will start
seeing that you are part of the equation too.
I'm hearing a lot about like self-work and reflecting on your own patterns and behaviors
and I guess less about more the practicalities of dating.
So how do you measure the success of your clients?
Is it actually going on dates or getting relationships or is it the growth that's coming from these
sessions?
What does success look like for you?
Well, for me, it's all of it.
All of the above, everything that you mentioned, I think for me is seeing them approach their
daily life with less anxiety and more fun, more freedom, being them more secure in themselves
going out on dates.
Depending on how the date goes, it's not something that it's in your power, in their power anyway
to, you know, whether the date is a success or not a success.
So I think for me it's more like the overall approach, but you know, when you start doing
coaching, you go on to coaching for, you know, one thing, one very, very well-defined goal,
but to be honest with you, then the ripple effect when you start like moving things in
your mind is not just in dating, but it's in on your whole life.
So it can be like work, relationship with colleagues, relationship with parents, it's
sort of something that shifts in family dynamics as well.
So everything is part of what I consider to be a success.
But yeah, there was like this client of mine, for example, that had this goal of actually
crying.
She wasn't able to cry.
She wasn't able to express her emotion through, you know, tears, despite wanting to do so.
And so we did like a lot of like a long emotional journey about the reason why she wasn't able
to and what was happening in like the moments where she felt like crying, but then she also
felt like couldn't.
So obviously there was something that was blocking the tears from coming out.
And then there was a lot of work of, I say, like giving new meaning to what the tears
were compared to what she was taught when she was a child.
And then she was able to, on our last session, because at some point, you know, coaching
is going to end because clients and people have the instruments to then go on and then
live life and do the work without needing to be coached.
Because then it's like you leave a part of yourself, but I leave a part of myself with
my clients.
And there's something like my therapist, they left a part of themselves with me, but also
goes like for every kind of coach, like my tennis coach, my first tennis coach is always
with me when I play tennis.
So it's something that just stays.
And that is the beautiful part of it.
But then, yeah, in our last session, she ended up, she ended up actually crying and that
was an amazing moment.
So it's not just about the dating, it's not just about the finding love, finding a partner,
but it's also just this, I think it is milestones within yourself.
So they are very, very private, but I think they are the best ones as well.
I like what you said about the ripple effect.
I can totally see that happening.
You know, you make one little change and then it radiates into all these other facets and
arguably other relationships in your life as well.
Yeah.
One of my breakthroughs when I was in therapy was that I was, I was very successful professionally.
So I've always been and I was utter failure when it came to dating.
So there was these two, these two parts of me that I couldn't, I couldn't really reconcile
because in my mind, if you are successful at something, then you should be successful
at everything else.
Right.
So one of my big breakthrough was actually that I was applying the rules of, I don't
know, like the university exams to dating.
So I felt, well, no, I felt like I was absolutely convinced that the success of my dating life
was just a hundred percent dependent on me.
And like there wasn't anybody else in the picture.
It sounds like so simple and so trivial to say now, but I felt that I was responsible
for a hundred percent of what happened during, you know, my dates, during my relationship.
And by doing that, by being convinced of that, it was like I was removing the other, I was
removing my partner.
I was removing my dates from, from having, you know, responsibility for their 50%.
So if I was out on a date with someone and it went well, but then I wouldn't, I wouldn't
really hear from him anymore.
Then I would, I would feel totally responsible because of support for that.
So I would feel that I had done something wrong, that I wasn't, you know, handsome enough
that I wasn't funny enough that I wasn't, I was never enough or I was too much.
So it was all down to me and something that I realized.
And again, it might seem very simple.
It sounds so simple now that I say that, that's so basic, but you can only do, you know, up
to a certain point in a relationship because there are other people involved.
It's not like when you're trying to study for a university exam, that it's kind of all
down to you, which is not really true because, you know, there is your professor involved
as well, as well.
There is, you know, luck.
There is like some random factors, but it is much more about yourself than other people.
But when it comes to dating, it is about other people.
It's not just about you.
It's about you and someone else.
So there's only so much that you can do.
There's only so much that you can be responsible for.
That was one of my breakthrough.
What are some common, let's say quote, mistakes that you see people making as far as dating?
So as I said before, compromising all their values and their core beliefs is one of them.
And I can tell you that, you know, if you're feeling that a part of you is being an important
part of you is kind of dying when you give an answer to your partner or your date, this
is like a massive red flag.
And you should take notice of that because when I can tell you, for example, when I had
my first relationship, I was so in love in kind of like an unhealthy way.
And I've always wanted kids, even if I was gay.
I mean, I've known that I was gay since I was eight years old.
And I've always known that I wanted kids.
So I've always thought, I don't know, in some ways I'm going to be able to have kids.
So I never really worried too much.
But with this first boyfriend, I remember when we like after a couple of months in the
relationship, we talked about kids and he didn't want to have them.
And because I was so, you know, in just like prey of this love addiction dynamics, I've
said, oh, yes, I don't want kids either.
And I remember the moment that I felt like a part of me, a part of my heart that just
died then and there because I compromised on something that it was so essential to me.
And that is something that I still is a moment that I still remember because this is what
it feels like to compromise on something that you believe to be to be true and to believe
that you believe to be absolutely yourself for in order to please somebody else.
And thinking that, you know, if you please your partner or your date, then it means that
you're going to have like a relationship, you're going to find love, whatever it is
that your your goal, whatever your goal is, it's never going to work for you.
It's never going to work in the long term because you always you will always feel like
you're not really you're not really there.
You're compromised on on too much or on something that it was just so important for you to be
happy.
So that is by far the most common mistake.
It's hard to find a balance between what you feel you can compromise on, because of course,
you know, being in a relationship with someone, regardless of whether it is, you know, a love
relationship or a work relationship or a friend relationship, there are going to be some compromises.
I think, you know, my first rule of knowing who you are and knowing what your core values
are, that's when it comes into play, because then you will be able to know, you know, what
are the deal breakers and what instead is stuff that you might be willing to be to to
compromise on.
So knowing yourself and knowing who you are and what makes you tick, what makes you happy,
what you want out of life is really important.
And then the second rule for me will be know what you want.
And this is something that most people just don't do, especially people like me that just
wanted to find love and were willing to compromise on everything and anything in order to find
it.
But what is it that you want out of your partner or your relationship, your life with your
partner?
And something that I always advise my clients to do is every time that you go on dates or
you start dating someone or a relationship with someone and then they don't work out,
it's really important to understand what it is about this particular date or this particular
relationship that didn't work for you.
So that you kind of find that you start the list of what you don't want and what you want
in a partner or in a relationship.
It's something that works quite well because it takes the attention away from the fact
that a date that doesn't go well is a failure, which is not.
But many people feel, especially when they are on a mission to find love, every time
that every date is an opportunity to find their love.
And when that opportunity doesn't materialize and something goes wrong, then they feel like
a failure.
And it's not absolutely what it happens.
But if you start saying, oh, OK, so with this guy, it didn't work because actually he was
evil.
He was cruel.
I don't like that.
I don't want that in a guy.
But let's make a list of things that you don't want.
So that takes you.
That makes I find that this process makes puts all the dates in kind of perspective
is like a journey that you yourself are on, regardless of who you are in a relationship
with or on a date with.
And it takes the sting away from the perceived failures that you can have when something
doesn't work out in your dating life.
I mean, it doesn't work out like most of more more times that it does work.
So that's that's normal.
What do you notice as far as trends in the dating industry and anything that's relevant
for people in their 30s and beyond?
So I was actually lucky to spend my early 20s in a world without dating apps.
So if I wanted to meet someone, I had to actually go to a club and go talk to someone in person
right away.
I find that dating apps have changed the landscape completely, because now when I go into clubs
and I actually don't go to clubs that often anymore.
But when I go, I am amazed to see, you know, people side by side or like one meter apart,
but they are talking to one another on Grindr or whatever dating app instead of talking
to each other.
It's like we have become so afraid of rejection that we don't even go and talk to one another
anymore because we're so afraid of being rejected.
And I have to say, unfortunately, that is justified because talking to someone, especially
when you are living maybe in like big metropolis, just like London, for example.
But I probably believe that it's the same in everywhere else in the world.
When you go talk to someone, like when you approach them, it's just seen as like an overstep
of the boundaries that you always start thinking that the person who approaches you is like
crazy or on drugs or, you know, there's something wrong with them.
So we haven't really made life easier for each other to just talk and get to know one
another.
I love dating apps and I don't have anything because I think they brought more benefits
to us than drawbacks.
But I think one negative side to them is we stopped communicating in real life anymore.
And I've always been one to just take everything from offline to online to to sorry, from online
to real life as soon as possible.
So even when I was on my own dating apps, I would spend maybe just a couple of days
talking to someone.
But my goal was to if there was some sort of chemistry there, I just wanted to bring
it to real life as soon as possible, just because sometimes the chemistry that you have
online with someone that doesn't really translate into real life.
And I didn't want to spend months talking to someone online and then build all these
castles in my mind, a little love addiction to then find that all my hopes would then
crush when we met in real life because the hype just like because like the real experience
didn't match up to what I had in my mind.
When I'm interviewed, I'm asked about dating apps and experience on dating apps.
And for me, I always try to convey the message that what happens on dating apps, it's not
like it's not real life.
So if you know someone on a dating app, it's not like saying someone is your friend in
real life.
So there are still you still have to break the ice and kind of bring that online relationship
into offline into a real life territory.
It's scary.
It can be scary.
But we're humans, that's what we are meant to do, not spend our lives online.
And like I'm saying that as an online marketing specialist as well.
The real life, especially from the point of view of feelings, happens, you know, in offline.
Yeah, app management was a big topic of conversation over season one.
You know, people they don't want to reply too soon.
They don't want their profile to be too cheesy.
They don't want to attract the wrong type.
How do you open a conversation?
So fun question for you.
What's better than saying, hey, how's it going?
Yes.
So again, this is like because we are bombarded with messages from especially if you if you
have like three or four apps on your phone, then you are probably bombarded with messages
and you kind of have to stand out from the crowd.
Also, I how it's going.
It works in real life because you take into account, you know, the effort that the person
has made in order to muster the courage to come up to you, which is something that I've
always admired.
Online how it's going, it's not really making much of an effort, is it?
So I would say start experimenting with opening lines.
And it could be something funny, like for for a while I use something like, please don't
tell me you're one of the people that claps when a plan when a plane lands, something
like that, you know, like, hi, I'm Dario, please tell me that.
And it was it was probably a horrible line, but it kind of broke the ice and it made them
laugh.
And if you didn't make them laugh, then they will block me.
And I knew that they were not my type.
So it was all right.
But at least it kind of stood out.
And it almost always guaranteed a reply, which is something that, you know, it's very hard
to come by these days.
Our last episode was called the litmus test of dating.
And we talked about in business terms, let's say, KPIs or milestones.
In your mind, what are those like?
How let's say, are your clients measuring like you talked about their personal goals?
That's one thing, you know, their personal growth and how they are approaching situations.
But in terms of dating, what are those steps that get them towards a relationship?
Yeah, they vary with from clients to clients, because I guess it depends on their culture.
It depends on their what point in their life they are.
I can tell you that me.
So moving about conversion rates, moving people from dating app to WhatsApp was was a very
important step.
The WhatsApp for me was basically the step before going out on a real date in real life.
So dating app to WhatsApp and then WhatsApp to real date in real life.
For me, these two were very big KPIs.
And you want to have, you know, people, of course, you start talking to if you're talking
about we're talking about marketing funnel, you start talking with 100 people on a dating
app.
Then 10 make the cut and get to WhatsApp.
And then depending on what your strategy is and what you're comfortable with, then maybe
half of them, then you arrange a date with.
And then how many of these five dates are going to go well, potentially two or three.
And then you start interacting with with them.
I've never been a fan of like the rules like in Sex and the City's Charlotte rules, like
you have to wait until the third day to sleep with him.
I don't believe in that.
I think you need to do whatever feels right for you.
I've had successful relationship that started with a one night stand and very bad relationship
that ended without, you know, after 10 days without really getting to getting into the
bedroom.
I don't think that we are at that point in in evolution where we're getting someone to
bed right away or after three days or after two days means or can actually tell how the
relationship is going to go.
It's a relationship that's so much more than that.
But one thing that I've always done is even if I was dating, if I was going out on dates
with different guys, if I as soon as I felt that I really liked someone or that potentially
there was something that could develop with someone that I would devote like 100 percent
of my dating effort to them.
So I would actually abandon the other one.
I would, you know, stop dating.
Abandon.
Oh my God.
That's horrible.
Abandon.
No, no, no, no.
Never, never abandoned without an explanation.
Never.
No, I would stop dating the other ones and just fully concentrate on that.
And there was something that for me was important because it was it was part of who I was.
It was part of my values and something that I was expecting from from the other one.
My my my date was also that if we felt that there was something that could potentially
developed into something serious, then I would expect them to kind of do the same.
So focus just on me without, you know, because if they if they suffered from formal and I
knew they probably they weren't right for me.
But if they were willing to invest into into whatever that was and see where it would go,
then for me, there was there was a big positive sign.
Yeah, definitely.
Well, in the age of abandonment and ghosting, a big question that a lot of our guests had
was how you've gone on a few dates and you know it's not working.
How and when do you break it off?
So sometimes it will be you that will have the clarity to see that things are not working,
that the two of you are not a match.
Sometimes it will be the other one.
The other your date would have this clarity and then will tell you that things are not
working.
The other thing I find that we need to do a lot of education in society about is that
just because something doesn't work between two people, it doesn't mean that one one is
OK and one is not OK or one is right and the other is wrong.
One is good and the other is bad.
No, it just means that it's not a match.
Both of you are actually OK.
It just wasn't a match.
And that's OK.
I read a lot of psychology books, as you can imagine, because I'm so interested about this
stuff and also to just get myself up to date with the latest study.
And these abandonment crises that I have experienced when I was dating, they are becoming more
and more frequent in people that are in well in people.
I was going to say people that are dating, but actually they are common in people in
a relationship as well.
This fear of being abandoned, which is something that stemmed from a very early age when we
were like babies and we needed to rely on someone else in order to survive.
It's not the case anymore, but this is something that stick with us.
So we need to kind of like give a new meaning to this breaking up this, you know, stop dating
when something just doesn't work because it's not the end of the world.
It doesn't mean that you're a failure.
It doesn't mean that you're not OK.
You are both like equally OK people.
You're just not a match.
And that is fine.
It's going to happen.
But one thing that I say is I am like a true believer in communication.
So if it is an uncomfortable conversation, I know it's hard, but those are the conversations
that you need to have in order to in order to grow as a person.
Those are the conversations that you shouldn't really shy away from having a hard conversation.
First of all, can strengthen someone's bond.
Yeah, maybe you're not the two of you are not a match or like a romantic match.
Maybe you're a match as friends or eventually you can still keep in touch and you never know.
And this hard conversation, this very uncomfortable conversation that, by the way,
are not just about dating, you have hard conversations when you are in a relationship,
even a happy, healthy relationship, you still have uncomfortable conversations to have.
And that is the same in, you know, at work with your family, with your friends.
There will always be some hard conversation, hard conversation or uncomfortable
conversation doesn't mean necessarily confrontation.
This is something that people are afraid of, afraid of confrontations.
I don't like confrontations at all.
I tend to be like a people pleaser.
It's in my nature.
But what I where I find strength to approach these uncomfortable conversation is that
you're both going to get on the other side of it much stronger.
Even if the bond ends, you will be left with the feeling that you've done something that you were afraid of.
You have been honest with the other person.
And most of all, you were brave enough to actually tell them in their face rather than by a text message or the worst ghosting.
So ghosting is like the plague of contemporary society is something that, to be honest, I can understand.
But it comes from a place of cowardice rather than a place of, you know, whatever it is that people trying to justify it with.
I don't think it's ever OK to ghost anyone in life because at the end of the day, we're all human beings.
We're here on this planet.
We should feel kind of a bond with one another just because of that.
We are on this planet in the middle of the universe together.
We should be kind to one another.
And being kind sometimes means telling some hard truths, but at least telling them with compassion to their face rather than behind their back or even without telling them at all.
I'm with you on that.
We could talk quite a long time about ghosting, but I'm not going to get into that.
So much about it.
Do you have any advice or words of wisdom you would like to leave our listeners with?
Yes, before looking outside of you, look inside you.
Most of the things they are trying to find outside you, they are inside you.
And that goes actually before blaming, you know, other people outside of you.
Just maybe look inside yourself because you will find that there is some responsibility to be taken within you as well.
Probably one of the most common mistakes that people make in dating is that people come to, especially when they are burned by a relationship, they come to me or they go into therapy or to coaching and they blame the other person.
There is something, there is a big blame culture going on out there where we don't really take responsibility and we just blame the other people that we were dating or that we were in a relationship with.
Now, I'm not talking about those instances where somebody cheated or there was like where the responsibility was 100% onto one side.
But I find that for the vast majority of relationships or dating or the dates that had not well, the responsibility is kind of shared.
So when my clients come into coaching and when I see that they start blaming the other for everything, that for me is something that we really need to work on.
Because everybody then, you know, after a therapy or a coaching journey, they find that there is so much responsibility that we need to be able to take for ourselves in our relationship.
So and even just because the other one has done something bad to us doesn't mean that we are completely innocent.
So, but regardless of that, I always like to do that myself and to encourage my clients to just look inside themselves to see what they have done and how they have handled the situation,
whatever situation they are in, in order to get some more learnings for them for the future.
It's not just like something that they do for their partners, it's something that they do for them.
So everything that we learn from a relationship, regardless of the outcome, is something that we always bring with ourselves and forever.
So and that's how we grow as human beings as well.
Dating Log is recorded and hosted by Wyndham Juno.
It's produced by me, Harry Dark, and our artwork is in collaboration with Esme Heming Studio.
A big thank you to today's guest, Dario van der Kraken.
You can find him on Instagram at Dario.LifeCoach or check out his website at www.Dario.Coach.
Whilst you're at it, you can follow us on Instagram at Dating Log Podcast.
Now to be found on YouTube and TikTok, our website is datinglogpodcast.com.
Would you like to be a guest on the show or know someone who should?
Then send us a message, DMs are open, or email us, datinglogpodcast.gmail.com.
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We'll be back soon with more episodes.
In the meantime, please don't ghost us.